Will Italy ever recover from corona?

No. I don't think so.

Probably not in the average 70-80 year old datalounger’s lifetime.

If you've been to Italy, you'll understand why their death count is so high. It's really a 3rd world country of petty thieves.

By the time this is over Italy isn't going to stand out, I'm afraid.

Italy survived Mussolini, WW2, 61 governments and a thoroughly corrupt infrastructure.

Wuflu pales in comparison.

Sure it will. All the old people dying now would have died within a short time frame anyway. 99% of them had other health problems. It's not comparable to war, where generations of young men can be lost.

I just read that the flu kills upwards of 61,00 people in the US per year. Is the Corona virus going to kill is as many? I doubt it. I'm beginning to think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Of course it will. The virus is only killing the old and weak. The country will be stronger after this. I am ready to fly to Italy in a few months to comfort the Italian men who have just lost their mamma.

Of course it will, why shouldn't it? Going into lockdown is probably helping some of its usually tourist-packed towns like Venice and Florence, and the Italian people, with their singing on the balconies, have shown a beautiful, resilient spirit. Aside from the initial problems resulting from this being a new and unprecedented situation, its state and social structures are holding up well. Italy will probably also get lots of cheap credit now that it would not normally be eligible for because of its debt-burdened banks.

If the men start circumcising their cocks maybe I'll be interested!

Italy will still be the most beautiful country in the world with fascinating history, culture and cuisine so of course it will recover

If they can recover from the moon hitting their eyes like a big pizza pie, this will be easy.

Italy survived the Black Plague, the fall of the Roman Empire, the World Wars, Mussolini and chaotic govt. It will survive this. Except...

Rome was not rebuilt in a day.

I'm with R4. The whole continent will change - and the world. Maybe the EU will be a tighter, more cooperative entity, more like the state of the US. Maybe it'll be more of a bipolar superpower world, China/US - don't know if Russia can step up to join the superpowers, so the US will be diminished I think (we haven't seen the extent of the damage to our economy and political situation yet).

Too much in flux to write off one European country - it's not like the rest will be back to work and humming along by May1. Weird shit will go down.

Italian-Americans will do their part to help rebuild the motherland by being extra-obnoxious and racist in North America.

Of course. They recovered from Nero burning down Rome and the Buboniy Plague!

It STILL hasn't gone down, even though even Iran has leveled off.

What are they doing wrong? All i can think of is younger people must be meeting secretly and then passing it on to their grandparents.

R16, Italy is testing as many people as possible, that's why the new numbers of infections are going up. The deaths are of those who were infected 2, 3, 5 or more weeks ago. But even with widespread testing, the numbers of new infections and deaths per days are slowing down, so in a couple of weeks or so Italy should be on the way to mending.

And, yes, people have been violating the restrictions and helping spread the infection that way, which is why the restrictions have just become more stringent.

Picture it -- Sicily, 2025. What will it look like?

Op acts like people are just going to abandon Italy and all of its history and natural beauty. Businesses come and go. Italy, like the rest of the world will move forward, but this has changed the country. This time next year Italy will likely be swamped with tourists again.

It will be colonized by Muslims.

maybe after we get a vaccine

You think people are going to stop going to one of the most beautiful places on the globe, filled with incredible history, art, architecture, cuisine, and culture? Unlikely. Especially when you consider how willing people are to go out and about now against the advice of public health officials.

The good news: everyone will be under-50 now.

Of course it will recover. And maybe this time I can get to Venice without being assaulted by gondolas full of Chinese tourist mindlessly taking pictures before jumping back on their cruise ships.

Question is, how is Italy going to react to those hordes of Chinese tourist Now - something that people were already upset and complaining about before this? To quote one literate friend “They come in en masse, leaving nothing but stars upon the ground, totally ditch the place.”

Every country will recover, including Italy. The deaths and hospitalizations are horrible, but it is still a small percentage of the population.

There will be horrible times ahead, but this will pass. Not soon enough unfortunately.

To Op's credit, there is an economic theory that could lead Italy into Greece's territory with regards to their economy. I don't know where they are in terms of debt, but I thought the high unemployment, frustration with the African refugees, and limited economic opportunities in the south made Italy sound less than ideal prior to the virus. Weren't some local towns basically offering tax cuts or payments to anyone willing to start a business in some areas? Italy sounds economically depressed outside of tourism, similar to Greece.

But I hope I'm way off on that assessment. If any hot Italian boys need a home, my house and bed are always open.

Financially? I imagine in a couple of years. It was too crowded anyway.

Of course they will, as will we.

The hardest hit regions in Italy, Lombardy and Veneto, are also the wealthiest in Italy. Milan, Venice, Bergamo, Modena, Padua, and Verona.

[quote]Italy sounds economically depressed outside of tourism, similar to Greece.

Greece? Are you nuts?

Italy is the 8th largest economy (GDP) in the world. Greece i ranked 161st.

Italy is the 3rd largest economy in the EU. It ranks 8th in the world for exports. Per capita it exports more than the US. The Milan metro area is ranked third in Europe for wealth.

R30 - yeah, Greece had a whole other plague of problems. They lied about their economic numbers to get into the EU, then hardly anyone paid taxes. I don't think a comparison to Greece has any truth to it.

Yes, eventually. The question though is what happens if it clears up a bit over summer (no guarantee) and then comes roaring back during flu season deadlier than ever, as happened with the Spanish Flu epidemic.

No

R6 we are more than halfway there within a month. And it wii rise more due to stupidity from leadership based off of what people like you peddle. Wanna take it back or do you and other contrarians want to move goal posts once we surpass that number?

No, never, OP. They'll sink the entire peninsula at the end of the year.

No, never, OP. They'll sink the entire peninsula at the end of the year.

Yes and no.

Italy will never be the same. Yes, it will take time to recover. Italy was already going on a downward [economic] trajectory before Corona hit them hard, this will only make it harder as we head into a global recession.

I give Italy 2 years to recover.

Spain and Italy are considering banning tourists until 2021.

r38

So where will the two people what want to go there go now?

I have had lovely times in Italia. I heart the cities, countryside, coasts, art, food and people. I am not rich and don't expect to ever be able to afford to go back again regardless of this situation.

I just-a got off'n-a da boat from EYE-tal-EE-ah

Of course they'll recover. They've recovered from worse than this.

Oh, and r3? You're a fucking cunt.

I'm sorry facts trigger you, R42. It is a nation of petty thieves, as well.

Con Amore, R3

R6 We're at 100K 3 months in. Still being blown out of proportion?

This thread aged like milk.

Brazil will never Recover. Their leader *s just another Trump. I hope he will be assassinated.

[quote] It is a nation of petty thieves

Well, sometimes you do have to watch out for those sneaky old nonnas. They'll steal a tomato from your garden when you aren't looking.

I think r3 is confusing all of Italy with Naples.

I'm not, R48. Even the guide books warned about the thievery from people one would never expect to steal from you. Grant it,the lira was still being used and they knew we were confused but it. However, we were off the plane for 30 minutes and the guy at the national railroad office tried to pull the slow count....twice!. He tried to steal a lot from us. Often however, it was less than a dollar to less than five dollars. It happened everywhere we went, but mostly in Rome. All I thought was, these Italian men have no fucking self respect. They were pathetic, really. I've been to Europe and Asia at least 25 times for business and pleasure, never encountered the bullshit I did in Italy, a supposed civilized, 1st world country. Italy is a wonderful place! Unfortunately, it's filled with Italians.

R3

R49 typing from his plexi-protected table at Viva Roma Cucina Italiano, enjoying a veal parm, endless breadstix and cappuccino just steps away from the Colosseum. Sit on your fanny pack dude. It's harder for them to snatch and run.

R49 is right. Rome is a 3rd world hell. I never saw so many uncouth, unwashed and downright nasty backwards people. Something must have happened to the people that built Rome and much of the Renaissance because these unfriendly, dishonest and unwashed individuals are Neanderthals. And I have traveled all over Europe.

[quote]the lira was still being used

18 year old anecdote of a sample of 1 in the biggest tourist trap is a perfectly reasonable data point to extrapolate to the entire nation. 🙄

r51 I've never been to Rome but if it's anything like Paris, then it can understand the aversion to the crowds. Unlike Paris, it was never rebuilt by one city planner so I assume those ancient streets and artifacts are scattered all over a city that's trying to balance modern sensibility with whatever's been built.

R53 - oh they are not trying too hard let me tell you. Two crappy subway lines, horrid and totally hard to find food unless you go to a tourist spot. It's nice around the Trevi Fountain, the Spanish Steps, and the Forum is amazing but in rest it's meh.

Really 54? Those are like the most touristy, populated cheesy areas. Obviously people who are talking about Rome have never been through Monti, Piazza Novana or Trastevere, the Aventine or any area remotely outside the direct city center. They've never been to Villa Borghese. The people are welcoming and excited to host Americans. I have never had a single problem with anyone walking around Rome, and have found the people to be astonishingly trustworthy. For example, after a certain time, once stores close, you can only buy cigarettes out of a vending machine that you need a State ID to access. My friend asked a bartender if he could walk over with him to buy them for him. The Bartender just handed him his ID to get it himself. The vending machine was down the block and not anywhere close. I was like, wow, OK.

Part of the reason the damage is so deep, getting deeper, is that R6 was a common response in March... and R6 like thinking continues to predicate decisions being made now, and even more damaging this thinking has become associated with "one side" vs the "other".... a political and not a scientific/practical response.

"Recovery" in any case is problematic. This kind of disruption will continue to increase through the century ahead as climate change increases the pace of destruction. Good times. Perhaps the pandemic will wake people up to our new reality, and the need to make drastic and coordinated decisions worldwide to address the impending threats. So far the evidence is it won't.

I read today that only 13% of their GDP is tourism. I thought that was kind of low.

I love Rome but there is a lot of resentment amongst the youth especially that their city is not their own but overburdened by tourism, and a high unemployment.

"...It's nice around the Trevi Fountain. The Spanish Steps, and the Forum is amazing but in rest it's meh."

The youths are correct about obnoxious tourists.^

Been there done that. Opa!

I loved Florence and Venice, but hated Rome. My friend and traveling partner was robbed so that probably clouded the experience. But the food was amazing. That said, I'd go back to Florence in a heartbeat.

Rome is my favorite city. It’s got tremendous attractions on:

Ancient Rome

The Church

The Renaissance

Fascism/WWII

Modern Italian culture

That’s 5 major subjects. Some major cities have only one or two. I walked 20 miles a day and even went some places multiple times. It helps if you like architecture, art, history, and Catholicism.

IMHO nothing beats the view of Rome from one of the hills. It is truly stunning. I would say it is better than Paris due the color of the buildings. Florence isn't too shabby either!

R58 I don't think the resentment is over the tourism. Rome is a lot like New York City in that the people who live there don't see themselves as Italians, they see themselves as Romans. And like New York City, Rome attracts the most talented and ambitious of Italy at some point in their life with the need to prove to the world exactly who they are and what they are capable of. However when you are of that mindset AND encounter a 2000 year old culture pretty much set in is ways and fiercely proud of it's history, there is little room, to none, to move that needle forward. Rome is ALL about its history, and it's only main concern about the future is the preservation if it's history. So as a young person you feel you are living in the past surrounded by a city that has no desire to change. A lot of my younger friends in Rome are dying to come to America, mostly New York City, where culture can be up for grabs and embraces change. Rome isn't good for young people, but perfect for someone like me, in my 40s, who has lived a life and no longer feels the need to bend the world. I don't need excitement, I need a good life that I can afford.

And by the way, building a subway in Rome is next to impossible, because every time they dig, they encounter some ancient and important piece of their history that they need to excavate.

Ive traveled to Florence, to Rome and Milan. I've been through Tuscany and the Amalfi Coast. I was planning to go to Sicily this summer and see Puglia at some point, but... But of the places I've been to in Italy, I always go back to Rome. It feels like home.

When I went to Rome in 1994, the only Gay bar we found was called “The Hanger”, and was run by a guy from Alabama. There was a Confederate flag above the bar.

R66: Somewhere in a desk drawer I still have my red membership card for the The Hangar, from a 1987 visit, pre-American ownership. A nice location and beautiful building externally; inside it was fairly compact and in the Industrial Style of the moment. I recall the sound of the metal toilet doors shutting and opening, shutting and opening, a parade—always in pairs because the space could hold no more—of sex and cocaine. There were one or two large TV screens where at a couple points later in the evening they would switch from the music videos seen around the world to elaborately produced videos of fashion shows of big name Italian designers, filmed in key Roman locations, and big trays of little plates of pasta were brought around and served to anyone who wanted.

Have they yet?

Italy is a beautiful country but it also suffers from massive corruption within its government. Siphoning of funds meant for infrastructure and healthcare means they were always going to be hit hard in a pandemic etc. Behind the scenes trafficking of African women and children for prostitution is a big money earner and a huge business in Italy. They are smuggled in daily and are another factor that is affecting containment.

[quote]Behind the scenes trafficking of African women and children for prostitution is a big money earner and a huge business in Italy. They are smuggled in daily and are another factor that is affecting containment.

Link please.

There's no place like Rome.

R70 I can't link at the moment but will give two articles and sites they are on. www.infomigrants.net Tricked, Trafficked and sold:How criminal gangs are bringing Nigerian women to Italy. time.com. "It was as if we weren't human" inside the modern slave trade trapping African migrants.

R72 Those criminal gangs are not Italian. They are Nigerian.

[quote]Italy is a beautiful country but it also suffers from massive corruption within its government.

The US has legalized corruption. It's called lobbying.

[quote]Siphoning of funds meant for infrastructure and healthcare means they were always going to be hit hard in a pandemic etc

Italy's health care system is highly rated. The hospital system in the North where the pandemic hit, is one of the best in the world. You don't know what you're talking about.

Italians have much better health coverage than Americans do.