Am I the poorest person on Datalounge?

They're lying, dear. It gets their rocks off.

nope, i am. so don't worry.

there are probably a lot of us out here. we just keep our traps shut about our lack of emergency funds, inability to telecommute and still earn money, and having not had a vacation in 15 years.

I would love to be counted among DL's wealthy elite, but must admit I am pretty poor.

Last week I was down to $6, if that makes you feel better.

[quote] Am I the poorest person on Datalounge?

Hold my ... uh, nevermind.

OP don’t believe the bullshit posted here.

Hunny none of these people have a pot to piss in. They live in rented rooms in someone else's basement, lots of them are professional cat-sitters, and a goodly number are still in Momma's basement. They console themselves with the excuse that they "help" take care of Ma, but they bitch every time they have to take her over to Blanche's to sit there in Blanche's basement waiting with Irene to get their hair done. And Blanche only accepts cash, so he has to hear about that for three days straight. They talk about stuff they read about.

DL mirrors what I've seen in real life, so what people state about their income is very believable. I've been friends with people who have been responsible and followed enough of the rules for success in life and have been accordingly rewarded. I've also been friends with people who would rather party or who spend whatever they earn or who would rather do what they want to do instead of what provides money and security. The latter group is not as well off, by far.

This site skews older. If you're in your 40's and 50's and have had a good job for a while, you can accumulate money pretty quickly.

For me, it was after 40 when I started to see the savings add up. Particularly if you can split living expenses with a partner.

I have enough for a few years - but I don't necessarily want to blow through my nest egg. It's going to make retirement that much harder.

I'm well aware I'm in a good position. I'm recently unemployed as well. I'm very thankful that I don't have the immediate concerns that many, many Americans have.

There are many gay men over 40 with very comfortable incomes and lifestyles - particularly if you never had children. And on top of that, elderly relatives begin to die off around these ages and the inheritance that goes with it.

[quote] OP: I read posters here talking about their millions in retirement funds and wonder if posters here are more well off than gays overall?

OP, on what thread was that? Tia!

I'm broke as fuck, because a a performer my income swings radically and once in awhile I run up some debt before it swings back and I pay it off.

OP, a lot of those guys are New Yorkers whose wealth is from their homes. They bought condo's in places like Hell's Kitchen when it was a crime ridden hell hole and their small 1 bedroom only cost $30K. Fast forward 35 years later and that 1 bedroom is now worth $2M. Just luck and waiting it out.

I’m it sure what OP’s family situation is like, but I think it’s primarily generational. Not just the inheritance windfalls that R9 talked about, but also knowing how to manage money. A lot of currently poor adults grew up renting and working jobs as laborers.

Whereas other people grew up with relatively successful parents, who had professional skills, leadership positions in companies or owned their own business, and also knew how to manage money. These people owned property (often multiple properties) and naturally passed those skills, habits and expectations to their children.

The gap between the groups only grows over time.

After reading threads here about investment and retirement, I always get comfort looking at hard facts. Most people in America have less than $100,000. The older average age - and the luxury of time required to be a regular DL commenter - results in a different picture of reality. If you have a few thousand saved, you are doing better than most. Money in the bank and 401k account balances are to DL what the shirtless selfie is to IG. Makes you think everyone else is perfect.

R8 - so true. I have several gay friends who just were not responsible or even conscious about their spending. They're now in their 50's and starting to panic. Too late.

Another item - if you bought real estate in the late 90's, particularly in large US cities, you've seen that appreciate in a massive way. Moreover, your mortgage and taxes are ridiculously less than what renting would be now.

I don't know how people in their 30's or 20's could save hardly anything in the past 15 years with the costs of education, rent, etc. going up so much.

But - there are many gay men who are beyond 'fine' financially. There are also a similar group who didn't think about their future and didn't want to 'play the game' for financial success. This board reflects that.

It would make sense. I would say the posters skew older. By the time you're over 50, you SHOULD have quite a bit saved. Since gays usually don't have children, that is a major savings alone.

Many DLs are older. Older people tend to have money stashed away for their retirements. Children and divorce are huge drains on people's net worth. Most gays got to avoid both issues and should be able to retire comfortably. Those of us outside of fancy NYC and LA are typically better off, unless you bought a cheap brownstone or work in the really high net worth jobs.

Being an adult is hard and life throws you curve balls. I'd say many DLs are comfortable to wealthy. But it's all about the sacrifices we made at various points in our lives, coupled with timely inheritances, that allows us to grow our investment portfolios. I'm making more money than ever, but I'm also approaching the end of another decade of my life as single as I started it. Some "poorer" friends are pretty and lived through the ups and downs of important relationships. I'm ashamed to say that I've never been in one, so my money, job, and lonely vacations are all I have. I'm extra protecting about my money because I feel like I'm destined to retire alone and I'm not made for sleeping in the streets or greeting folks at Walmart (as if they will exist in 30 years).

[quote]This site skews older. If you're in your 40's and 50's and have had a good job for a while, you can accumulate money pretty quickly.

I was made an Assistant Vice-President at my company when I was 35 and started accumulating money pretty quickly because I saved it instead of spending it. I come from a poor background but applied perseverance and ambition and it paid off. You can be successful at an early age even from a working class family.

R18 - but I bet you worked your butt off and sacrificed by not partying during the week, working late, and doing all the other things you're supposed to do in corporate life.

Many people don't want to do that. I bet your 20's were a financial struggle as well, so that, and not coming from money, you didn't blow money when you came into it.

For the average American, I would say that you really can't save too much if you're making less than $80K. But each $10K above that really changes things. The difference between $80K and $120K is night and day. The difference between $120K and $180K is insanely different.

My max income was $260K a year and it's just a completely different life.

Yes, we get it. You are all wealthy as a reward for your hard work and financial discipline.

[quote]Yes, we get it. You are all wealthy as a reward for your hard work and financial discipline.

Not necessarily wealthy, but comfortable.

OP, after a few more weeks, there will be a few fewer DataLoungers in the elite group.

Even people who work really hard and do all the right things can still wind up with nothing. It happens.

$100K in Ohio isn't the same as $100K in Manhattan. Rent control isn't standard in all housing markets. There are a number of very specific facts that a person would need to take into account for any kind of comparison. I like my house and it's paid for, but I'd rather not tell you how much it's worth. It's worth a lot to me, since it's where I was raised, and my factory-worker Dad managed to pay off the mortgage on his (hourly) pay. I bought the house from his estate. I'm an hourly worker, too.

Did I mention I was a coal miners daughter?

I didn’t have clothes to wear as a child. For my tenth Birthday I was given an old hat so I could look outside the window.

Like others have said, a lot of DLers are older, and this board's culture attracts a certain personality type that is likely to be an educated professional type. Makes sense.

[quote]this board's culture attracts a certain personality type that is likely to be an educated professional type.

It also attracts a lot of the opposite, hence this thread.

r25

So, I started my life, in old, cold, run down tenement slum. My father left, he didn't even marry mum. Then I started school, in a worn, torn suit that somebody threw out.

We only had a stick to play with

And we had to share it

With the dog

Older people also tend to have dead parents, i.e., possible inheritances.

Even if a thread starts out as a discussion for modest ways to start saving money, the thread gets hijacked by someone whose house is paid off and who has $500,000 in cash savings.

Let's dial back the "Datalounge attracts the upper crust of society, the educated and the rich" talk, shall we? Easily half of the content on DL is disgusting bigoted trash. There's homophobic trolling of the "get AIDS" and "faggots shouldn't be allowed around kids" variety, racism of the "those damn dirty Yids" (the recent thread on Hasidim) or "those damn dirty Chinks" (all coronavirus threads) type, a constant stream of copied threads from Breitbart and The Blaze, random rightwing ladies using DL as Daily Mail Part II and starting alt-right threads on trans and Meghan Markle and immigrants.

I think you can extrapolate a lot about the general populace of DL from that. The guy posting "those animalistic blacks always beat each other up over Mac Donald's" is also the guy posting "I have $2M saved in my 401K and made all the right choices so I didn't lose a cent in the downturn."

Let's be a little more aware of our surroundings, folks.

Gays can never admit poverty. You get credit cards and live like you make $100,000 more than you do.

[quote]it's all about the sacrifices we made at various points in our lives, coupled with timely inheritances, that allows us to grow our investment portfolios

"My mother's timely death really boosted my portfolio!"

The DL boomers are in good shape - I think they are the ones who boast about their millions saved and their second homes.

Gen Xers are in bad shape. Almost 50 % of them have NO savings for retirement. When Gen Xers hit retirement age, senior poverty will be wide spread.

So don't worry, you are not alone.

When your folks live forever, dementia eats all the money. And when it’s over, you really don’t give a fuck about retirement savings.

R31 is off his meds. Not sure what you're talking about.

R21 = The Ghost of Octavia St. Laurent

R31 is probably not considering that most people post in a subset of all threads. It’s more likely that the Russian trolls mainly post in political threads.

Get a degree that pays well & has career advancements, be open to relocating & further education for a better salary, invest, save, don’t buy stupid shit, have no more than 2 credit cards (pay it off monthly), pay cash,. We’re gay men, we mostly don’t have dependents - it kind of just happens. The goal is to retire.

I love r28.

Look at it like this, Alvah Roebuck was once asked if he was mad that he sold his stake for $75,000, when the company was now worth millions.

He said, "Of course not, perhaps I should've held out for more, but I'm not mad. In fact, I'm happy with what I got and never felt better in my life. Richard Sears on the other hand is dead. Long since dead."

[quote] I bought the house from his estate,

Why wasn't it just left to you in your dad's will, R24?

You believe everything you read on DL. My sweets, never believe all you read. It’s very easy to brag when there is no accountability.

Considering 98% of the wealth is held by about 2% of the population, and most of the world actually is in poverty, relatively, no one here has all that much more than anyone else.

I'm poor as fuck now! Was never rolling in it but I had enough to keep a roof over head and now... it's going to get interesting.

Not true r44. Many people are prepared for retirement. The key is to time the mortgage payoff to hit a fews before you actually retire. With that out of the way, coupled with normal investments, you should be alright financially. Even if you buy a home at 40, get that 30 year mortgage but pay it off before you get to 65. With housing basically covered you things become easier.

What I don't understand are the people living in places like NYC that never own property. Unless your place is rent controlled what's the end goal? I am always amazed at DLers under the age of 50 making NYC work in this day and age.

Exactly R44 - we need to start relying more on facts and statistics rather than social media - if we mist compare ourselves. Most of us have very little. A few older boomer and people who inherited money are the mains price of the “I have $2 million” comments. Only the occasional Gen X big city corporate slave who is making $200k+.

I’m lucky to have a rent stabilized apartment in NYC and have always lived frugally. I see the getting and spending around me and how pointless it all is. Don’t feel the need to have millions - but a safety net is nice especially at times like this.

OP, scapa, tu si mal fortuna!

[quote][R31] is probably not considering that most people post in a subset of all threads. It’s more likely that the Russian trolls mainly post in political threads.

I invite you to occasionally check your ignored tab and see what the trolls are saying. You'll find a LOT of crossover between political trolls and trolls on the everyday topic threads.

And I said NOTHING about "Russian trolls." I don't believe it's all "Russian trolls." You can believe that all you want, but it's not what I said.

What a dream r47. I remember in the 2000s I used to want a 12,000 sq ft McMansion, now my dream is a 3 bedroom apartment with an office/library. A simple place that I can fill with amazing little details rather than some Goliath of a place. I just need a little piece of the world, not a ton of space.

How can every place in Manhattan cost so much?

OP, you’re not the poorest person and it’s mit all about life choices that we make.

I have a good paying job but last week 8 of our managers were sent home. My side business, that was quite successful prior to COVID to the point of me considering going in full time, is now tanking.

My partner and I make more money but we also have higher bills. We have savings, but we don’t know how long this situation will continue.

Nobody knows how and when this will all end. People worry, except for the DL trust fund babies who are typing from their yachts. Of course.

I don’t know where the “mit” came from. Maybe it’s a sign and I should invest in mits? It was supposed to say “not”.

Living in NYC or SF or LA it can seem like EVERYONE has a ton of money. And it’s partially true - the people around you are the 1% of the country. So if it seems that 90% of the people around you are richer - it may be true, but then you realize the average income in the US is about $60k so you are doing better than average.

Best solution: stop comparing. Which is almost impossible in our social media saturated world.

[quote]I've been friends with people who have been responsible and followed enough of the rules for success in life and have been accordingly rewarded. I've also been friends with people who would rather party or who spend whatever they earn

OK Boomer.

So typical of that group thinking life is just so simple if you do what they did. No clue that a house is 15 timers more expensive than it was in their day if you adjust for current income. Same goes for college were Boomers were the largest group to default on their loans and never had to pay them back or even take a credit hit. Laws changed because of their irresponsibility. Now you cant even get rid of that through bankruptcy. I could go on, but Boomers are too self obsessed to think outside their own life experience.

Doing better is relative r54.

I think people in low cost of living areas see these 6 figure salaries and are jealous, but a 100k salary in say New York, SF. Boston is NOT a 100k salary in Cleveland.

So when you just hear numbers without the context it makes it seem people are doing better than they are.

R55 - you are completely right and I'm a Gen X'er. I have friends in their thirties and they are looking at salaries that will never allow them buy a home in Vancouver or other big cities. We are also not talking about generational wealth. So many people fail to mention the assistance they got from their folks or the money that they inherited from family.

The gig economy, corrupt and unethical business practices and companies like AirBnB have completely changed the way that society works. Anyone who can't see that is in denial or deeply privileged (both maybe)

Remember that the top 10 percent is, indeed, wealthy. The minimum net worth of the top 1% was roughly $10.4 million, according to Forbes, but the top 10%, on the other hand, has a net worth of about $1.2 million. Most of those 10 percenters are older, which corresponds with the DL demographic. So probably at least 20 percent, if not more, of the people here have a million dollars.

Myself, I do, but I didn't until I was 55. When I was 35 I was broke. I didn't start saving money and investing wisely until later in life. If I had done it earlier, I'd be a lot richer. So start now.

[quote]And on top of that, elderly relatives begin to die off around these ages and the inheritance that goes with it.

Translation = 1% er.

90% of the population never inherits money form relatives. 40% are just above the poverty line. Most Americans inherit bills.

I'm a younger millennial (30) that's seen many people in my age groups already follow the boomer model towards success. There are a number of people I know that work for tech type businesses, not even as coders, that are somewhat close or above the six figure salary range in the Chicago area. They got business or finance degrees and obtained jobs with starting salaries around $50-60 k.

If they were in sales they busted their asses they should have obtained one or two promotions before 30. Many of us were analyst that just work the way up the ladder. Change jobs to another employee once or twice to capture those sweet salary jumps. Many people sit on a good nest egg and date guys or girls in somewhat similar financial situations (making $60k plus). Together these couples are set to become the people with the nice house, college funds for their kids, and generally upper middle class comfort. Depending on your social circle things may be different. These people also party on the weekends and take nice vacations every year not to mention short weekend vacations. Right now we are all working from home financially untouched by the economic effects of the virus, for now.

Chicago is a great example because the population decline in the city hit the poor and minorities, yet young Millennials and older Gen Zers are coming into the city with starting salaries right around the nations medium income rang straight out of college. If they don't start at that level, after 5-7 years of hard work they can bust past the $60k mark.

Again, this is my social circle that include gay and straight people. This is our normal and most of us are not Ivy League educated. I understand that this is not the norm. Most of us had student loans, but our salary rang make the payments very manageable or our parents are helping. Once your in the door at a good place you get your friends in as well and give them the salary negotiation tips so they get in at the high end of a new hire's range. We all talk about what we make to ensure we are getting the best deals.

[quote] I bet you worked your butt off and sacrificed by not partying during the week, working late, and doing all the other things you're supposed to do in corporate life.

Fuck you pretentious Boomer MARY! I did all that, worked 12 hours a day in an office, for years and I am still broke. Not all professional fields pay all that well, offer advancement or opportunity to increasing pay level. In my industry they just let everyone go the instant the economy starts to turn and the last to hire during a boom time. When I first started working, they would not even allow you to put money away in a 401K until you worked for them for 2 years. And no matching by the way. And before Obama Care they had some bullshit health savings account that took money out of your paycheck and at the end of the year if you didn't use it on "approved" medical expenses, you lost the money! It was like fucking gambling with your medical coverage.

[quote] For the average American, I would say that you really can't save too much if you're making less than $80K. But each $10K above that really changes things. The difference between $80K and $120K is night and day. The difference between $120K and $180K is insanely different. My max income was $260K a year and it's just a completely different life.

Humble barging much? The Average American only according to U.S. Census Bureau lists the annual median personal income at $31,099. Even with a college degree if you scan the job adds they seem to average just about 45,000 before taxes. Your advice about "working hard" is bullshit since most people don't make what you are bragging about. Stop it.

[quote] R23: Even people who work really hard and do all the right things can still wind up with nothing. It happens.

I wrote R23 earlier. Life is a challenge.

I thought R60 was well expressed. He stated that he’s a millennial, not a boomer, R61.

This is r60 again. I do have one friend that's in the non-profit field. He likes to bring up work, but when I mention my work frustrations he just throws my projected salary (I don't share details with him) in my face for making more than him. When I tell him to move out of the non-profit field he throws a fit because he's emotionally invested in his job. It's like okay, then we are at an in-pass on this topic. He wants me to feel bad for him, but he won't make the obvious actions to change his situation. I assume he will be even more bitter when it's time to retire. My job is no dream, but I enjoy the work enough to make Sunday night's bearable. What I want to do in life would pay 50% less than what I currently make, that's not acceptable to me, so I just suck it up and follow the money. Sometimes these things are about choices, but more often than not many of us are just beaten down by life's curveballs. I feel for many of you, but at the same time when you are conventionally well off, people think you're just humble bragging so no matter what the conversation is spoiled.

[quote] R61: And before Obama Care they had some bullshit health savings account that took money out of your paycheck and at the end of the year if you didn't use it on "approved" medical expenses, you lost the money! It was like fucking gambling with your medical coverage.

The health savings account is never well explained. When I learned about it, one year, I actually was able to make more from my plan than I paid in to it, about $9,000 more, IIRC. Do they still have the plans? I can write how to make money on these plans, but it’s long.

Btw, r61, you really need to calm down.

Agree R64. Own thing that doesn’t give you a right to complain is doing a job you love despite low pay.

I thoroughly hate my job but suck it up and do it because it pays well and I need to save money for the time when I can’t make money - which WILL happen, very possibly before 55. I loved teaching but realized adjunct professors didn’t get paid enough to even pay the rent - never mind save. So I go to a corporate job that I hate for 80% of my waking hours - because I need to make money. I am grateful to be able to even have that opportunity - because many don’t, especially now.

I am a two-percenter, and it is not enough.

[quote]It's like okay, then we are at an in-pass on this topic.

Impasse. The word is "impasse."

You might want to dial back the snottiness, "Young Millennial," because you're proof that salary has absolutely no relation to intelligence.

[quote]He wants me to feel bad for him, but he won't make the obvious actions to change his situation.

Part of the reason you get higher salaries is to put up with the bullshit inherent in the job. He's not wrong. Unless you're talking about uncovering white collar crime or some OSHA violation or something, you are almost certainly whining about petty things that you signed on for.

You're asking him to accept his situation, without realizing he's asking the very same of you.

I sympathies with your friend R64. It's easy to just say change jobs, but to be good at a job you have to have a passion for it. I believe the Boomer phrase was "do what you want and the money will fallow". Well that's bullshit. But at least he is doing something for society. Your goal seems to be what you can do to make more money, and I get it, that is the only motivator for some people. But we cant have a society were that is the only goal or you are somehow a loser. Who's gong to deliver your packages, clean your house, pick fruit in the fields, serve food in a restaurant or change the oil on your car? We need those people and we need those jobs and no one is going to pay their maid 100,000 to clean their toilet. You are living in a Millennial tech industry bubble. How many of your friends your age have jobs in those fields I just listed? Do you know anyone of your age doing those jobs? The people doing them now are not going to live forever and guarantee have no nest egg and probably work 10 times harder getting their hands dirty than you ever have.

You sound just like the simple minded Boomers I knew 25 years ago in the workforce even though you are a Millennial. You surround yourself with like minded people and that is how the world is. You cant understand why other people your age cant just get a different job. Not everyone can work in the tech industry or financial services industry you simpleton. Most jobs with with a college degree still pay jack squat. I guess apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

I'm 50 and I've never really been a money person. Nor have I ever been into things and stuff sotospeak. All my career choices have been based on my interests and job satisfaction which has not led to high paying jobs. I know this and recognize this. So I live month to month with little to no savings and little to no support network. I'll have to work till I drop. I don't mind. I like working. In addition I came from a lower middle class family who understood economics in a different way than they exist today. In the world if opposites attract I've always liked guys who were the opposite of me in this regard.

R42, I have a brother and a sister, and my parents' will(s) divided everything equally. So, I had to pay the estate two/thirds the value of the house for me to take ownership. Fun fact, though: I was my parents executor and power of attorney, and was their primary caregiver for many years before they died (two months apart). I was in the lawyer's office with them when they were drawing up their wills, and they would have left me everything (including the house), but I insisted that I didn't want to be favored, since I still wanted to be able to be friends with my brother and sister. Also, I was desperate to get away from this house back then. My feelings changed after they were gone.

Anyway, I took advice from a friend, and had the house appraised before I agreed to buy it. I had the house remodeled once I owned it, and it doubled in value. But my conscience is clear, that I never tried to take advantage of my position.

R24

OP, don't feel bad. Take all this BS with a huge grain of salt.

There's a DL thread about "What Kind of Student Were You?" Somehow, there are so many people who never had to study and still ranked at the top of their classes. Fuck outta here.

r69 I never said that I couldn't understand why my friend wouldn't get another job, but I admit that my explanation made me sound like an aloof asshole. He's been on a salary freeze, so his meager wages are a sore subject for him. When we talk about work it always goes back to money. He feels that I shouldn't complain about anything because my job has bonuses and salary increases. But we all have frustrations, even Jeff Bezo's probably has things that annoy him about Amazon. My issues are minor everyday work frustrations. His issues seem to be focused on one thing, money. So, I suggest he find a new employer. He refuses to leave. The cycle continues. We just try to avoid conversations about work.

r68 I was not trying to be snotty. As I said, if your successful it's very hard to have these conversations because people don't think we are speaking in good faith. I'm sorry you think I was being a jerk, but I was trying to just share my convoluted experiences.

I'm Skyping with the CEO of Goldman Sach's (who also happens to be my lover) as I type.

You are not alone. Most of our friends are struggling - they are all in their late 50s or 60s. They lost their jobs in the last recession and never recovered. Age discrimination destroyed their ability to get hired in their previous professions. I don't think that was a Recession -- it was a Depression for people in their 50s. And now it's happening again.

I highly doubt that, OP.

You don't know poor ........ I'm still trying to scrape together enough money to buy a freaking roll of toilet paper. If I'm lucky enough to find one.

I often spot what seem to be two camps in DL posters.

The first are people from modest backgrounds who either fled their families or (unselfishly often) held close to them. Maybe they didn't run away and reinvent themselves but stayed close to siblings and parents, they didn't go to college or if they did they didn't land in a degree-career trajectory that would line their pockets. Some did leave and pursued relationships or gay night life or careers that they loved but which paid poorly, none of which put them in good stead with financial planning. They thought short term or near term and left the future to sort itself out; they may have put good times to the forefront and pushed the future forever to the rear. They had jobs that don't pay enough to make significant retirement plans - least if all if they are unpartnered and can't share expenses and share windfalls (a bonus, an inheritance, a old cheap car for that matter.) If they inherited any money it went to pay debts in many cases, wiping out bills but not tipping over the edge into positive gains. At some point they simply resign themselves: they have no savings, no retirement funds, no likelihood of their situation turning over in any way, and from that point they seem a near empty glass.

Reading between the lines of many posts over the years, I would guess that not a lot of gay DLers were born with the proverbial silver spoon. Many had to make it on their own, and without much outside help. They relied on education and drive and having to develop some quality that could help secure their standing with work. They may have had to work that much harder than their straight colleagues who coasted by; the may have made more sacrifices. Often they were the first in their family to leave the best, to go to university, to be gay. These men and women who came from modest backgrounds with families that did not expect a lot of them learned to do for themselves. And many learned to save money, to be prudent, to plan against the unforseen. They did everything right and prudently as far as their finances go, and they kept the wariness and conservatism of people who made their own way. If they enjoyed any inheritance, it came as found money. Unneeded extra to buy a second house, to retire two years earlier, to add to their investments. Some of these posters are their ones who scream prenup and think everyone is a whore or a con artist out to relieve them of the fruits of their work and planning. Sometimes they are the very bitter poster who is enraged that someone was bought a shot car (or a new car) by parents; they want you to know that they worked for everything they got (ignoring any good fortune that may ever have landed their way.). They see a near full or even overflowing glass but they are often a bit miserable anticipating every possible misstep or catastrophe.

I don't care if someone has a lot of money or if someone is poor. But I'm fascinated by the jealousy of people who have money. This was one of the things I hated most when I was growing up in a small Midwestern town - the neighbors always criticizing anyone who had money. My parents were the worst offenders of this.

I’m very blessed. I can live very comfortably for approx 10 years

[quote]I invite you to occasionally check your ignored tab and see what the trolls are saying. You'll find a LOT of crossover between political trolls and trolls on the everyday topic threads.

If you didn't know better, they almost seem like just regular DLers with whom you at one point happened to disagree. Diabolical.

r77, another way to say it is that there's the ant and the grasshopper. On DL, the grasshopper is always looking for affirmation that it's not his fault and that he isn't the only one in his situation, lamenting his predicament.

[quote] He feels that I shouldn't complain about anything because my job has bonuses and salary increases. But we all have frustrations

Thank you Marie Antoinette. How strong is that glass house you live in? You are still not getting it. MOST people for example do not have jobs with bonuses. They are supposed to be preforming at their top level of skill to begin with, that is what the salary is for. You are lucky to have a high paying job that ads even more money to your wallet for a job you should be doing anyway. Good for you, but I would not brag or bitch about it to people less fortunate as your friend. That's just rubbing salt on a wound. And lets be brutally honest, he is probably working just as hard if not harder than you. Getting a different job my be an easy solution for you, that dose not mean in anyway he has that same option. My Queen Antoinette, the people are starving, there is no bread..."well, why don't they just eat cake?"

[quote] But I'm fascinated by the jealousy of people who have money.

I am fascinated by people who have money who constantly complain they are poor.

You would be surprised how much I hear that from people I work for who are all millionaires several times over. They complain more than the middle class or low income people I know. My current employer literately have millions of dollars worth of jewelry her husband bought for her. Yet she will spend hours needling someone for a deal even if it's just the food delivery guy.

r60 -- a friend "who," not "that." A friend is a person, not a thing.

Quibbling between the lower middle class and the upper middle class is silly.

We are all ruled by the *real* rich people, we are all still the proletariat workerbees.

[quote] But we all have frustrations, even Jeff Bezo's probably has things that annoy him about Amazon.

Yes, you people, show some fucking compassion here.

OP - I would gladly lend you a maggot, but I need to be sure you know how to milk it properly.

R79 Wouldn't count on that.

Thanks r82, I happen to like Marie Antoinette as a historical character. She was fun, fabulously dressed, fucked a hot Scandinavians, but ended up as a scapegoat for the rot in French society.

I am the poorest, I am sad to say. And nothing will improve.

My broke friend lives in NYC and also talks about 100k in NYC is different than 100k in the Midwest where I live. I don’t disagree, but I don’t see the value of living in a tiny box for more than I paid for my rehabbed townhouse. New York is not where I’d rather stay. For all his sage observations and negative, pronouncements he’ll ask to move into my house when he is too old to work. I’m okay with that. Any chance to turn my retirement years/home into an episode of Golden Girls is always a yes. I’ll play Blanche, natch. So poor DL’ers , find yourself a rich Midwesterner and play out selected scenes in your golden years.

My posts in this thread have received a lot of "Ok Boomers" - but I'm Gen X, not even close to a Boomer.

Most millennials don't understand that their 20's and 30's are their lowest earning years. It will get better - but unfortunately with this crisis, it may be a few years again.

Dear Millennials,

Boomers, Tommi DeDario, Betty White, and “all the rest” have conspired to ruin your lives, because no one has ever had it hard, getting established. No one, except you, and that’s not bad luck, it’s by design, because the universe hates you. I hope that’s settled, now.

I'm not wealthy, but have maybe not quite a champagne budget.... and beer tastes. I could go out right now and buy a new car but I'm perfectly happy with my 20 year old one. I dont like new cars much truth be told, rather have something older with a bit of character that I can fix myself

The posters who mentioned appreciating real estate values are spot on. People who bought decades ago are now reaping the rewards. We have so many NYers of DL who like to brag, but the fact is the only reason they can afford to live there is because they bought a place for practically nothing three decades ago or they have rent control 99% of NYers on DL would never be able to afford NYC at current rates.

I’m pressing the world button. I hope that means I like comments & not blocking anyone.

R96 - it's not the world button. It's the WW button - it is for Wit and Wisdom, and it is for liking comments.

Excuse me

What also helps is: luck and connections. If you...or your parents are well connected, a path will likely be cleared for you. I don't have those things. I've worked my ass off to reach...the middle.

R97 Thank you! So glad to know.

R60 - for young professionals, Chicago is probably the best place to start your career. Salaries are still relatively high, but housing and other expenses are low compared to NYC and SF.

There are many Millennials who can afford to buy in Chicago, but it's just a dream on the coasts.

[quote]I happen to like Marie Antoinette as a historical character. She was fun, fabulously dressed, fucked a hot Scandinavians, but ended up as a scapegoat for the rot in French society.

Not to mention getting her head chopped off.

The DL skews a lot more older than 40, 50 something it's more like 70, 80, or even 90. That group is retired and has all day to brag about their wealth and success during their closeted years. A lot of them talk about never have found "the one" due to their career if you notice.

Lol, R103.

[quote]That group is retired and has all day to brag about their wealth and success during their closeted years.

And they live in rent stabilized apartments or bought decades ago when real estate was cheap. They've never had to deal with the outrageous costs of modern housing.

The problem in Chicago is you can buy - but you’re not going it strike it rich because there isn’t price appreciation. The 3 people I know who moved from NYC to Chicago because they could afford to buy have lost money on their property. Fine if you want to stay - but Chicago real estate is not a path to riches Like it is in Ny, LA or SF.

But how poor exactly is OP? How can we compare without knowing?

R106 - depends on when they bought, but it is still better to have the tax breaks and grow equity than just burning the rent check each month. Also, the difference in NY, LA, SF housing costs puts more money in your pocket to save, invest, or have a higher cost of living overall.

I'll agree the prices haven't risen the same as on the coasts, but that's not a bad thing.