Wanna talk about Perkins?

I, however, do not.

Well then step to the left, ma'am.

Timeless beauty.

I see a bit of Peter Krause. Anyone else see some Krause? Also, a young Henry Thomas had similarly broad shoulders, and he was cast as a young Perkins in Psycho 4 if I'm not mistaken.

Didn't he have a big ol' dick?

Perfect. Would be nice to have a thread without this talk about how she'd like to "drain his balls" or "wants him very deep inside me badly" etc.

R6 Well, honey, if you scroll up and down you'll see that [italic]you're[/italic] the only one talkin' that talk, missy.

Now, where were we? Let's see here. Oh, yes! Any confirmation on R5's question? R6 and I would like to know.

Always struck me as creepy.

R8 'cause of that film he did?

Maybe I'm just a bad influence after all, R7...

Who is he? He is so sweet looking.

Pass. He had the AIDS.

According to Tab Hunter's autobiography his buttocks were "sublime".

Hasn't Ryan Murphy gotten his filthy paws on Tony and Tab? isn't there going to be a mini-series or something? As Pauline Kael, I believe, said about Ken Russell: he degrades and cheapens everything he touches.

His wife died on one of the planes that went into the World Trade Center on 911.

In the OP he reminds me of '80s porn star Jeff Converse.

His son Oz directs now. This movie was creepy and weird, and his brother Elvis did the music.

r15, Tab and Tony is being produced by Zachary Quinto and J.J. Abrams; Pulitzer Prize winner Doug Wright has completed a first draft on the script. The last update I can find on the film is from last summer.

What his deal with hustlers coming into his bedroom, tying him up and raping him? Super kink.

going swimming

He looks like David Tennant with a better chin in OP's pic.

So hot

So sexy and what a cute personality

He knew he was hot stuff... but he could play demure. He was perfect, honestly, and his son has that quality too. I was instantly attracted to him in Legally Blonde and thought he was gay. Is he? He also looks like Henry Thomas meets Lurch.

wooden acting. almost as bad as Keanu.

I'll take his wood. And Keanu's for that matter.

He got really into EST and his therapist encouraged him to marry a woman.

Kind of a self-starter Ex Gay....

I had always heard that he was into twisted, bloodletting sex.

On a double date.

I always found him very attractive. Beautiful, in fact. And he seemed humble, sensitive and sweet.

If R30's a double date, does that make this a single date?

He has a wonderful long torso. That always appeals to me. And he did a lot more than Psycho. He was great in Friendly Persuasion with Gary Cooper.. And Tin Star with Henry Fonda. He worked with Hollywood legends...

If he were the age at OP today, he’d be aptly cast as Jared Kushner.

r21

Talk about a womanly figure

[quote] Tab and Tony is being produced by Zachary Quinto and J.J. Abrams; Pulitzer Prize winner Doug Wright has completed a first draft on the script. The last update I can find on the film is from last summer.

With Ross Lynch playing a young Stephen Sondheim.

He'd started to lose his looks by the time he was with Sondheim.

Of course, Stephen was never a prize, looks wise.

He lost his address book from a helicopter over the Greek Islands.

He was always kind of twitchy. Norman Bates typecasted him but he was the perfect type for Norman. Unlike Sandy "twitch as an acting style" Dennis, he couldn't parlay is oddness into a real career. He was groomed to be a leading man but would have worked better as a character player.

So EST turned him “straight.” Uh-huh. So cult.

No.

I never understood Perkins' appeal. He was a slimy, creepy, stuttering lightweight. His acting was mannered, almost unwatchable. I've seen him in several movies, and a play with Mia Farrow on B'way decades ago but can't remember anything about it. I only saw Psycho in 2010.

Nope.

Incredible. A magnificent lover. Gave me multiple orgasms. Not a queer bone in his body.

Still he only penetrated me anally.

I protested (at first). But he was adamant that my anal cavity was lush and inviting. Like entering the symphony or Carnagie Hall.

R32, No, that's still a double date. But their female companions are obviously just props and couldn't look any more bored. This image is hilarious in that it says so much.

R40, Actually, I did.

I didn't know he dated Sondheim! Aww, I hope they had a nice relationship for as long as it lasted. Sure, he's looking gaunt, but the nips look nice and perky!

R47, I believe they were just friends. They wrote "The Last of Sheila" together.

So ...

I'm the only person who thought about the restaurant first?

I wasn't acting here, y'all....

One of the odder moments from Mahogony

He didn't do anything for me, but obviously he was considered attractive. He did a movie with Ingrid Bergman; to prepare for a scene she suggested they go to her dressing room to "practice kissing."

China Biue: "Sorry, I never forget a face... especially when I've sat on it."

Reverend Peter Shane laughs. Then:

Shane: "Save your soul, whore."

China Bue: "Save your money, shithead."

God, I love this movie. And both of their work in it. He was hot only in his youth but stayed interesting until the end. One of my favorites and downright underrated.

I always wondered if he gave his wife AIDS.

R50 You [italic]know[/italic] that's not the first time Perkins was slapped by a black woman. Where's that from? Looks properly bitchy!

Always found him creepy and unattractive.

R55, turn in your card!

"Mahogany" and turn in your gay card if you haven't seen it. It's a camp kick. Especially Tony's last scene.

Had the chance to hook up with him in the 80s but was too young and scared of it all then and thank God. Might have dodged a bullet for sure. But flirted up a storm regardless.

The creepiness adds to the attraction for me. Spook me skinny daddy!

ha, Deputy R57 beat me to it.

(I know folks are suspect of Boze Hadleigh books and interviews but there is a classic one with Perkins in "Hollywood Gays", I think. He is ornery as fuck. "Next!" to every other question).

Mahogany

A pathetic life-long self-hating closet case that died from AIDS.

Nothing more to discuss.

R57 Hahaha, I'm positive the film was before my time, but feel free to take my card. We don't even use those anymore.

[quote]Nothing more to discuss.

Elaborate.

[quote]"Mahogany" and turn in your gay card if you haven't seen it. It's a camp kick. Especially Tony's last scene.

I'll seek it out!

Was Perkins really closeted? All these photos of him show a man who's very comfortable with his body, and actually seems to want you to know he's gay. He's got this look in his eyes, and it ain't the cookie smell, though in some pics you can tell that way. Anyway, I hope he had a good time while he was here. Oscar-nominated!

Go to 1:27 in that youtube video (the whole movie), it's great. The movie and song were both huge hits, though. She didn't completely blow it until "The Wiz".

"He didn't do anything for me, but obviously he was considered attractive"

Yes, to teenage girls in the late 1950s. Sound familiar?

R68 I thought that was the trailer! Didn't realize it was the whole film! I'll bookmark it!

Perkins had a 6-year relationship with Grover Dale, who went and married Anita Morris after that ended.

Berry Berenson was kind of butch.

So was her Grams

R71 cute! They always return to the sea (fish).

[quote]Perkins had a 6-year relationship with Grover Dale, who went and married Anita Morris after that ended.

The story I read (perhaps it was Tab Hunter's book?) was that Perkins and Dale went to a therapist who told them to marry women. Dale married Anita Morris a week or so after Perkins married Berenson. Dale went on to father the hot James Badge Dale.

R75, And both of their wives endured horrific deaths.

I see a bit of Anthony Perkins in Miles Heizer’s face

His poor sons. First their father dies of Aids in the early 90s and then their Mother dies in 9/11. It's amazing that those boys still have their sanity!

Go look him up on What's My Line.

He and Dorothy compete for "who's the most pretentious"

Was he sexier than Roddy MacDowell?

R72, she could be a cocktail waitress on an oil rig.

R82 : Also known as a rape victim.

Nothing to see here folks....

R77 Connor and Miles could play Tab and Tony!

What a lovely body he had. I had no idea. Thanks OP

R81, Roddy MacDowell had one of the ugliest faces ever to appear on any TV or movie screen. Don Knott's category. I don't care about any other alleged part of him. Roddy MacDowell, looks and acting = FUGLY.

aw, I thought he was cute.

Tony Perkins supposedly propositioned Frank Langella in his dressing room by asking point blank, "How big is your cock?" and then invited him to a backstage tent party where all sorts of shenanigans were taking place. This is according to Langella in his bitchy memoir, "Dropped Names," but the ever coy Langella doesn't say what happened next. Did he go to the party? Did he have a go at Perkins?

[quote]"How big is your cock?"

Someone once used that delightful pickup line on me.

Any bulge pics? VPL?

R80 he's so cute in that interview

"Roddy MacDowell had one of the ugliest faces ever to appear on any TV or movie screen. Don Knott's category. I don't care about any other alleged part of him. Roddy MacDowell, looks and acting = FUGLY."

You are blind and retarded. I feel so sorry for you.

He was still a handsome man in middle age.

I thought this thread was going to be about the restaurant chain.

His looks started going downhill after Psycho. He lost the baby fat of youth and his softened features became stark and creepy. He was also way underweight.

No more leading man roles; just a succession of weirdos.

In the kitchen with the Newmans.

Leave it to the gays to remember me! I haven't had this much publicity since the '50s!

I wish Miles Heizer would hold my pig.

R80: Dorothy played to win. They never really replaced that.

R102 Get in line

Was he manorexic?

I like the way Tony gives John Gavin the "up and down" in that scene from "Psycho" at r86. But then who wouldn't check out John Gavin if you had that hunk of prime beef standing in front of you?

R106 The tension!

According to Stephen Rebello, author of "Alfred Hitchcock and the Making of Psycho", Sir Alfred Hitchcock was displeased with the performance of John Gavin (Sam Loomis) and referred to Gavin as "the stiff".

And that he was.

R108: And Tony Perkins was just the man to make him stiff.

R96 = Steve Buscemi

Millie Perkins was one of the worst "actresses" ever on film. Actually, she wasn't an actress; she was a model. A talentless model.

Who had more Hollywood dick? Tony or Roddy?

R92, In the same book, Langella happily admitted that he received a blow job in his dressing room from Yvonne De Carlo during the making of this.

R90 Roddy McDowall was boyishly handsome until about 50. He may not have been as gorgeous as Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins or Farley Granger but he was buy no means unattractive.

Damn, who DIDN'T Tab Hunter fuck?

Roddy McDowell always looked good for his age. And everybody in Hollywood loved him.

Thanks, OP! I totally agree. TP was my choice in another thread for the person I'd fuck before the end of the world. Grover Dale is still alive. Wish he'd write a memoir.

Something about Roddy McDowell I never found attractive at all, not sure what it is.

Roddy's diary would make Andy Warhol's seem like a nursery rhyme. He knew ALL the Hollywood shit.

Roddy had a vast collection of Hermes scarves. He spent his final days designating which scarf would go to which devoted friend.

I also thought Perkins was very handsome - seems to be my type to a tee.

We lost so many incredible men to the AIDS epidemic and lots at a very young. Our world would definitely be different if that shit didn't happen. Changed my life and I'm sure others...grew up in the 70s, 80's in college and not the whore I probably would have been if that didn't happen. It shaped all of us!

R113, Supposedly, wild girl Yvonne De Carlo would park her convertible in the parking lot of Jack's at the Beach in Santa Monica and pick up young, handsome men and take to her place nearby. That's how she landed Robert Wagner and Tony Curtis when they were unknowns.

^ SLUT!!

a-hem

"Roddy's diary would make Andy Warhol's seem like a nursery rhyme. He knew ALL the Hollywood shit."

And this claim makes this common mieskeyt handsome?

The diary is not scheduled to be released until 50 years after his death. By then nobody would care.

I was listening to Fresh Air today and Terry Gross was interviewing Stephen Sondheim.

He mentioned Tony Perkins. Said he played an early draft of Sweeney Todd to him and Perkins immediately knew that Sondheim as copying [AKA "paying homage to"] Bernard Herrmann.

He was impressed that Perkins was that knowledgable. Although Herrmann wrote the score to Psycho, so it wasn't a huge achievement to recognize his music.

Roddy McDowell was friends with everybody. He was friends with Sybil Burton AND Elizabeth Taylor. The elderly, cantankerous Louise Brooks adored him. He was known for being kind and compassionate; he was a steadfast friend to Montgomery Clift, even though Clift was becoming more and more insane. I've been looking at old photos of him; he was a beautiful child and an attractive man. The clod who keeps saying he was "fugly" is obviously not very bright and has cataracts.

Nice does not equal handsome, sexy or cute, R128.

Roddy wasn't ugly, but he wasn't handsome either. Now, fellow child actor Dean Stockwell, on the other hand...

McDowall was never leading man handsome. He was more "character actor" good looking.

Memoirs of late Mr. Roddy McDowall won't be released until 100 years after his death, which still leaves a long way to go; but ensures no one living in 1998 will be around to get that dirt. Well suppose if someone was born in late 1990's and lives to be one hundred or so will, but they likely now or then don't even know who Mr. McDowall was, more so anyone mentioned in memoirs.

However it is a testament to how much Mr. McDowall was liked in life that little if any scandal or dirt has come out since his death. No toyboys, hustlers, claimed long term companions with an ax to grind looking for a pay out as with Rock Hudson and others. Those home movies show that anyone who was anyone in entertainment/film/theater world attended his parties and or otherwise were friendly.

Am sure at least a few secretaries or whoever that typed or worked in offices where those memoirs are stored have peeped. But they aren't saying anything either.

McDowall was a beautiful child, then youth; but by time he reached young adulthood things began to peak.

He still was attractive enough by middle age, but certainly not hunk or heartthrob material.

Home film shot in 1965 , Roddy would be in late twenties by then but still attractive enough to pull. If you liked thin body types he was your man.

[quote]Grover Dale is still alive. Wish he'd write a memoir.

Grover and his son last year. I hope Grover does write a memoir. His relationship with Perkins aside, I'd like to hear stories about working on WEST SIDE STORY, THE UNSINKABLE MOLLY BROWN and THE YOUNG GIRLS OF ROCHEFORT.

James Badge Dale....

What's the point of waiting so long to release the diaries? Surely Roddy couldn't have conceived that in a mere 20 years after his passing, nothing could shock anyone anymore and people have probably done worse things on their own IG accounts.

Perkins always had more of an asexual (rather than gay) vibe to me. I can’t imagine him kissing anyone, for instance.

Just ...chilly.

This is a thread about me, not Roddy. So...

The ELECTRICITY!!

R136

That may be true, but there is nothing anyone can do to override wishes of the deceased. It isn't as if the general public has any right to know what is in those memoirs. Nor for that matter did Roddy leave any legal heirs of his body that could possibly override that decision. This leaves executor of Roddy's estate who likely wouldn't consent, and even if he/she did would have to convince a court why it should be done.

Roddy and Little Roddy.

R141

If there was anything that showed off a basket or invited a game of find the canoli it was polyester double knit pants of 1970's; you didn't know where to look with some guys.

R141 that looks like a still from The Brady Bunch.

Columbo Meets The Brady Bunch!

Perkins as Piersall

I just wanna get one thing straight . . . you GAVE him my pink shirt? You gave a complete stranger my pink SHIRT?

That shirt was a CHRISTmas present from YOU! I TREASured that shirt!

I LOVED that shirt! My collar has grown a full size from weightlifting . . . you SAW that may arms had grown. You SAW that my neck had grown, and you bought me that shirt for my NEW BODY!

I LOVED that shirt! My first shirt for my NEW body and you gave that shirt away?

I can’t beLIEVE you! I HATE this life, and I HATE YOU!

Yeah, his kid was awful in that film--the segment with the kids really did not translate well into the film---too stagey with not great acting.

As for Tony, there was no chemistry with Sophia Loren at her most ripe.

He sang? Three albums per Wikipedia.

R148

Yes he did!

More!

Say what you will, but as a young man Anthony Perkins was one tall cool drink of water.

Sadly AP suffered from same fate as many other WASP or British men; good looking to gorgeous in youth, but that all starts to fade by middle age.

Roddy filming Tony.

More:

R140, Both Jacqueline Onassis and Lyndon Johnson left strict orders that their audio recordings not be made public until decades after their deaths. But in both cases, their wishes were overruled by Caroline and Lady Bird, respectively.

I had a crush on him. I guess he was a bit of a weirdo.

R152 that was cool - Natalie Wood was so beautiful, and Tony Perkins was so cute/nerdy/sexy

If these walls could talk!

Apparently AP was well enough known in Chelsea; but didn't seem to cruise where he lived, or did he?

Always had a crush on Perkins since I saw Psycho as a kid. Roddy was always very cute to me, even well into middle and old age.

I'll give Grover Dale one thing - if you're going to de-homosexualize yourself, Anita Morris is about the best choice you could make. I'm as gay as they come and the first time I saw her, I was overwhelmed. She really was stunning. A great personality and singing voice, too. Very funny as well.

R158

Would have to agree with R158

If a gay guy was going to turn straight (or least give it the old college try) Anita Morris was the gal to pick.

Still have to wonder if she knew what she was getting (not that many women do), and if Grover Dale ever strayed off the reservation for some dirty, damp and deep.

Has Grover's son ever experimented in the homosex?

Anita Morris was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 1980 and given five years, max.

She lived until 1994, working to the end.

I guess Anthony Perkins was just too thin, he had a weird body.

I never knew who Roddy McDowell was until he appeared in the first Eunice sketch. After that I never saw him as anything else but. He played Philip in three sketches

R141

Roddy has to be wearing a wig in that picture. His hair was never that full and thick even in his younger days when it was bone straight. There isn't a perm in world that would give such a thick mass of curls.

I could imagine nothing better than having a three way with Tony Perkins & Tab Hunter back in the 1950s. God, it would go on for days. Throw in Rock Hudson for a foursome.

R162

Roddy McDowall did a huge amount of work in big and small screen after Carol Burnett Show including his iconic role in Planet of the Apes film series. There was also plenty of voice work as well such as the cartoon series Pinky and the Brain.

R162

Roddy McDowall did a huge amount of work in big and small screen after Carol Burnett Show including his iconic role in Planet of the Apes film series. There was also plenty of voice work as well such as the cartoon series Pinky and the Brain.

r146 Isn't that Richard "Hold me, David!" Masur in the background?

Yes, it is.

Matt Bomer’s husband reminds me a bit of Roddy.

Did Tab write about boning Roddy in his autobiography?

He's very charming in this interview. The film they're talking about (Goodbye Again/Aimez vous Brahms) is very good as well, Tony's character falls in love with an older woman (Ingrid Bergman).

Berry, my lavender granddaughter.

Perkins reportedly had his first heterosexual experience at age 39 with actress Victoria Principal on location filming The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean in 1971.

Well, considering what Victoria did to poor Andy Gibb, is it any wonder Perkins turned out so nuts?

Sexy!

[quote]I never knew who Roddy McDowell was until he appeared in the first Eunice sketch. After that I never saw him as anything else but.

You'd probably have to be my exact age, but the same is true for me with knowing him first from Planet of the Apes. I can't get past it.

One of the Sondheim books says that George Furth modeled Robert in Company on Anthony Perkins, who was also expected to play himself in the show, and that Furth inadvertently made Robert opaque and confusing because Perkins himself was opaque and confusing.

And that may be why, when they offered Perkins the part, he turned it down. Because it revealed all of his ambivalences. If Company included a scene in which Robert sings Being Alive only after he ends his affair with Grover Dale on the advice of his psychiatrist, the show would make more sense than it does.

[quote]Damn, who DIDN'T Tab Hunter fuck?

I was wondering the same thing.

R177 who is the JB guy?

R178, John Bromfield

"Check out my rod, Tab."

Okay, this has got me thinking. All these dudes we knew were gay (Perkins, Hunter, Clift, Brando, et al.), when we look at their candid photos of the past they look gay as hell... almost all of them. It's so obvious, right? So I'm wondering who else? Clearly there was a whole ocean of homosexuality under our feet, and we know this, but I'd argue that it was probably less undercover than you'd think. As in... if you had the right status and were supported by the right stars, you could be... well, relatively free, which is awesome in a sense, and sad in others. But like... now I'm thinking if there's even been so much as a rumor about any golden age hunk, then there might be a nugget of truth to it, even if it means a clandestine, boozy peck, or a full on cock in the throat.

I'm just happy they were getting some, you know? And God bless those lavender dames, those class proto-faghags, who are now gay icons in their own right, and kept our gays of yore safe enough to fuck each other.

Amen.

[quote]Perkins, Hunter, Clift, Brando, et al.

I just want to stick in two of those from you et al. file . . .

Wait, R182 - who are those two exactly? for real!

Jeffrey Hunter (aka Jesus from King of Kings) & Robert Wagner

R122 I have newfound love and admiration for Yvonne!

Uhhhh, yeah, looks like they were boning.

Keep in mind... gay is gay, right? Presumably our behavior can be tracked. That looks like any instagay's afternoon at Palm Springs.

If it looks like what you think it is, it might actually be what you think.

Wow, so much hotness back in the day

Guuurl, that is some fierce eyebrow at r177

It was NON STOP right? And like... way hotter than what we have now, because it's like... gay glamour, you know? Old Hollywood Gay Culture. That's what it is. And it's long, slender torsos and legs, and short shorts, and beef bods, and chiseled faces, but quirky ones too. Just... I hope they had a good time with each other. I hope it was a veritable bacchanal between projects.

The great thing about Old Hollywood Gay Culture was that Disney had their own: Tommy Kirk. I [italic]knew[/italic] growing up watching Swiss Family Robinson, and Old Yeller, and anything he did on Vault Disney that he was gay. And I knew because he was my favorite. All my youthful favorites turned out gay. Lance Bass is another one.

Tony, Paul, Joanne, and Larry.

Joanne Woodward puzzles me. She's a terrific actress, and she's played several roles where she was supposed to be an alluring, sexy young woman, but she's never radiated any sexual heat to me. Even in the movie "The Stripper," in a role originally meant for Marilyn Monroe, she was unsexy. Sure, I am a gay man, but I totally get Marilyn's, Sophia Loren's, Ava Gardner's sexual chemistry. Heck, even Anna Magnani generated heat in some of her pictures. But with Joanne, I get nothing.

You [italic]know[/italic] Annette kept our boy safe!

Proto-Groff/Michele. You know it's true!

Montgomery Clift & Rock Hudson . . .

For the dummies who seem to think that the only things Roddy McDowall ever did was a couple of Carol Burnett "Family" sketches and "Planet of the Apes"....Google him! He got tons of work. He was a successful child star in movies like "Lassie Come Home" and "How Green Was My Valley." That's how he met Elizabeth Taylor, they were both child stars, working in the same film. He made over 100 movies, and in addition worked extensively in television. So it would seem his career did consist of more than a couple of Family sketches and Planet of the Apes.

[quote]R191 Joanne Woodward puzzles me. She's a terrific actress, and she's played several roles where she was supposed to be an alluring, sexy young woman, but she's never radiated any sexual heat to me.

Yeah. She slipped through into stardom because she was actually good, not because of her looks. But, Hollywood also always needed some more basic looking women, like Debbie Reynolds and June Alyson, onhand to play approachable types...wives, etc.

The most embarrassing thing I saw Woodward do is a monstrosity called A NEW KIND OF LOVE, where she gets a drag queen style makeover and supposedly becomes a sexpot.

Sorry, no.

R178, John Bromfield

John Bromfield, side view . . .

That is QUITE a dildo he carries around

Ugh, could you imagine being a gay then? Those short shorts are practically tighty whities. You just got to look at everyone's long lovely legs all the time.

R132, what's with this "Mr" shit? Is English your first language?

[quote] That's how she landed Robert Wagner and Tony Curtis when they were unknowns.

That may be true for Wagner, but I thought she met Tony Curtis when he had a bit part in CRISS-CROSS. Afterwards, when he went back home to the New York, he had his limo driver drive up next to Walter Matthau (his old friend) on the street, and shouted out the window, "I fucked Yvonne de Carlo!"

R201, Dunno. It was in RJ Wagner's book. He was picked up by Yvonne, spent 3 days with her, the next week he runs into Tony Curtis who says, "You can't imagine what just happened to me. I pull into Jack's at the Beach. Yvonne De Carlo pulls up next to me! She looks at me, I look at her. Well, to make a long story short..."

It could've been just one of Wagner's embellishments though... like Natalie padding a dinghy to shore late at night.

/paddling

I just finished listening to the Fresh Air podcast with Stephen Sondheim. She played Tony Perkins singing in Evening Primrose and he didn't sound good. It was almost painful listening to him strain for notes.

We're overdue for a status update on Tab & Tony. I wanna know who's playing 'em.

R194 = Mrs Roddy McDowell

"Ugh, could you imagine being a gay then?"

Yes, imagine it. You had to hide your homosexuality vigilantly, especially if you were an actor. If it came out you were gay your career would be doomed. What an awful thing to have hanging over your head, the possibility that your life would be ruined if it were revealed you were gay. Even in these times there are gays who stay firmly in the closet.

I fucked his hole.

I really admire Sondheim, but he comes across as a know-it-all in interviews.

r205, I hope that they can find actors who a) are the right age (the movie covers Tab & Tony in their 20s) b) are good actors and c) are preferably American, since both initially personified the All-American male.

R207 Good points. I was thinking more visually. We all know they've made living her a nightmare for us.

I read Tab Hunter's autobiography and it was quite a disappointment. Bor-ring!!! He did not spill the tea. He did not really like Anthony Perkins and said Perkins was competitive, pompous, and difficult to be friends with. He was in a monogamous relationship with a figure skater. He really like the Ballet dancer Rudolph Nuryev and I think he implied that he was a good lover.

The whole book was written like he knew his mother would read it, so it felt very sanitized.

Skip it.

R212 Yes it was distinctly lacking in tea. You have to find it elsewhere, like this dish on Tab from Edmund White's memoir...

[quote]There’s a good deal of deep dish served as well, as White tells a few tales out of school. In the chapter titled, “My Blonds,” he discusses past lovers, who are either like, “Blake’s sword-wielding angels” or bed-bug crazy. There’s lots of Rabelaisian humor, as well, including a bawdy anecdote you won’t find in the recent prissy memoir, “Tab Hunter Confidential.” This involves White’s Aryan actor/room mate, Keith McDermott and his sexual “idyll” with “the still handsome Tab Hunter” who, once in the saddle, is overheard bellowing from the boudoir—“Go on boy, sit on that big Daddy dick!”

If you haven’t seen Crimes of Passion, the over-the-top erotic thriller from director Ken Russell, then I highly recommend checking it out. Perkins plays a drugged-up religious fanatic. The uncut Australian version is the one available on iTunes at the moment. It’s much better than the R-rated American version. Truly shocking for its time, especially Perkins’ performance.

Did Perkins and Turner get along?

I can't remember hearing anything about problems between them but it wouldn't surprise me. Kathleen was a major shit stirrer back then and was not terribly well liked by her peers.

Apparently, Turner was upset that Perkins used real poppers in his scenes.

Cher would have been awful in the role. She is not a good enough actress to have understood the role.

I don't know about Robert Wagner embellishments, but Barbara Stanwyck was mad for him for four years. The feeling was mutual.

I think Turner was fond of Crimes of Passion as she should be. It's one of her most interesting roles and a very brave choice for an actress of her age and stature at that time. Imagine someone like Emma Stone or Michelle Williams doing something like that these days.

Tab with James Dean

Mr. Roddy McDowall was involved in one bit of major scandal during his lifetime; he was arrested by FBI for film pirating.

Rather than face charges Mr. McDowall sang like Bobby Darrin, naming names including other famous actor collectors such as Rock Hudson.

Oh yeah! James Dean! Another one! Notice how our classic, beautiful, sensitive Old Hollywood hunks all had dicksperience? I love that!

Actual bathroom from Roddy McDowall's home is now in the Hollywood museum.

quote

The actual bathroom from actor Roddy McDowall's home. He had been known for throwing great parties, and just about everyone who's anyone had visited his bathroom at one time or another, and many of them added a picture or note to the wall. McDowall himself added some other photos, art and celebrity Christmas cards. The bathroom became something of a "tourist attraction" even among jaded Hollywood types, and when he died in 1998 friends insisted it be saved intact...

/end quote

They loved the guy enough to fight and have bathroom of his house saved.

I saw "Crimes of Passion." It wasn't a good movie, it was just gross. Perkins was over the top in it.

Who do we think should play Tab and Tony in the movie?

Andrew Garfield 10 years ago woulda been perfect for Tony, but now he's aged out of the role. I actually think casting for Tab would be more difficult -- he was so breathtakingly beautiful.

It's gonna be one of those situations where whoever they find simply can't be good enough. They'll probably find someone who looks right, but isn't an actor. Or maybe they'll find the perfect person who'll surprise us, but there've been so many poorly cast biopics of classic figures.

Didn't Kristen Stewart just play Jean Seberg in what looked like a horrid retelling of her activist/paranoid life? Bad movie!

While love Stephen Sondheim's work, he never was (IMHO) one of the most attractive gay men around in his day, so how did he end up with so much prime hot guys?

R228: $$$$$$

Have you watched interviews with him or those workshops for those students he gave on YouTube? He had such a captivating presence, and this cute little smile. He was also a genius. I'd fucking him NOW. Also, yeah, sure, money, but did Perkins not have money or something?

Also, I swear that last I heard of Sondheim he was with this SUUUUUUUUPER hot 26 year old or something who was said to be his assistant. Mmmhmm.

R230

The husband, Jeff Romley

IMDb page

R230

Suppose what you have said is true, de gustibus I suppose.

Given Sondheim's notorious poor hygiene, hopefully Jeff maintains a separate bedroom.

If Tab's husband, the producer Allan Glaser, is attached to Tab & Tony they'll find good actors, It'll be hard to find another drop-dead-gorgeous, blonde Adonis like Tab. I keep thinking of Jason Lewis circa Sex and the City.

Was Crimes of passion the movie where Turner fucks a cop with his own nightstick?

R236 Yes.

My only memory of Crimes of Passion was John Laughlin (who I believed never married)

When Kathleen Turner was on "Oprah" in 1991 to promote "V. I. Warshawski", an audience member asked her what it was like to work with Anthony Perkins in "Crimes of Passion".

Kathleen hesitated, the audience began to chuckle and finally she scrunched up her face and just said "Very interesting".

"The actual bathroom from actor Roddy McDowall's home."

That should be the bathroom in his HOUSE.

[quote]They'll probably find someone who looks right, but isn't an actor.

Perfect casting for Tab Hunter.

Sorry to say this, but Jeff Romley gives off a creepy Jared Jushner vibe. I hope that's not the case in real life.

I was watching I Love Lucy the other morning and it was the one with Lita Baron guest starring as an old partner of Ricky from Cuba. All I could think of while watching her was she was married to Rory Calhoun for years and years when he was at his hunkiest and as we found out much later was fucking the impossibly gorgeous Guy Madison all that time. We also found out that Rory was in the huge dick department along with Milton Berle and John Ireland and Steve Cochran. What a time to be in Hollywood! So much meat and potatoes being served up for one and all. Men and women.

Caption for pic: "Ain't nobody's business but ours."

Calhoun was married twice. He had three daughters with first wife Lita Baron (m. 1948-1970). When Baron sued Calhoun for divorce, she named Betty Grable as one of 79 women with whom he had adulterous relationships. Calhoun replied to her charge: "Heck, she didn't even include half of them".

Were he and Sondheim ever boyfriends?

Scarlet Johansson IS Tab Hunter.

Perkins was most definitely attractive, but even in his youth, he seemed almost deathly thin. I guess it might have been due to his height, but he'd have been a bit more attractive with a little more meat on his bones.

The perfect Tony and Tab !

R239, I don't think Kathleen has ever had anything nice to say about any of her co-stars. She was always, "ME ME ME" at the height of her fame.

I love Kathleen and think she's a great actress, but she does always seem to badmouth co-stars. I think she liked her Serial Mom co-stars at least. And she liked Bill Hurt.

R238, John Laughlin today.

He aged nicely.

^^ I'm impressed; he doesn't look bad. ^^

So damn cute in "Footloose" with the eyeglasses. One of the greatest nude asses on film too in "Crimes..." Not quite up to the role, though (they wanted Jeff Bridges but he passed, would've been great).

Laughlin's ass in Footloose was a defining moment in my little gay boy life. I was royally pissed off when I bought the Blu-Ray and the image was cropped, chopping off most of his ass that you could see on the VHS releases.

At least Crimes of Passion showed it in all its splendor.

R181

Gays have been long present in theatre world, then moved onto Hollywood when that industry sprang up. People knew who they were, and just as today some cared, others minded their own business.

Studios cared about the bottom line, more so since back then they also owned movie houses their films were shown in; so it was in their best interest to promote wholesome lifestyles. Billy Haines told his studio to piss off rather than hide who he was, and went on to lead a very successful and happy long life with his partner.

Main complication about homosexuality were the various state laws making it a crime. This meant obviously if caught by LE there was scandal, which had to to be avoided at all costs. Then of course nearly all studios had moral clauses in their contracts with actors/actresses which meant someone could find themselves unemployed and shunned if found in compromising circumstances.

Many people having nothing to do with Hollywood back then knew which actor was gay. Rock Hudson is one of the worst kept secrets when you have older women in flyover country knowing he was gay, or not shocked about that bit of information coming to light it tells you something.

I was not common knowledge that Rock Hudson was gay in "flyover country."

He married Ken Russell and his wife on the Queen Mary in the 80s.

He was great in Mahogany. I remember cracking up like crazy during the car scene the first time I saw it

A married throuple? Kinky and so daring at that point in history.

Yes, let's talk about Perkins. Did he ever spy on Spin and Marty as they were jacking each other off?

Yes, he did. The perv.

[quote]A married throuple? Kinky and so daring at that point in history.

R260 You're joking, right?

At the Crimes of Passion wrap party on June 10, 1984 aboard The Queen Mary in Long Beach, California, Ken Russell married his long time companion, Vivian Jolly. The ceremony was officiated by Anthony Perkins, who was an ordained minister with the Universal Life Church.

Lee Remick still wanted to marry Stephen Sondheim even though she knew he was gay. Obviously he had some appeal.

Lee Remick fucked JFK.

I'm as gay as they come, but I would've turned straight for Lee Remick. She was just gorgeous.

God bless you all . . .

R263, the post clearly stated: He married Ken Russell and his wife on the Queen Mary in the 80s. That means that he had a ceremony in which he wed Ken Russell and his wife, making it an MMF throuple.

Of course I'm kidding.

Didn't Tony screw Tab over for the role in Friendly Persuasions?... Not exactly a "humble, sensitive and sweet guy" as someone mentioned above.

R269, it was Fear Strikes Out that Tony took from Tab. They met just after Tony had completed filming Friendly Persuasion.

I'm OP. Just wanted to say I'm so happy you all ALSO wanted to talk about Perkins! Keep him and the Old Hollywood legacy connected to him alive! If the gays don't who will?! The STRAIGHTS?! You think they know about ANY of this shit?! They don't know that a gay has played one of THE cinematic horror icons?! That's power. We got that. Don't let them take it!!!!!!!!!

Was Tony Perkins actually bisexual, like Cary Grant was, or was Perkins gay but tried the whole ex gay thing like clams or $cientologists do today?

R271 my mom who is a proud fag hag and hetero knew Perkins was not heterosexual she said it was obvious as it was with Cary Grant.

according to Tabs book, tony was very very ambitious in his career early on and that is the main thing that broke them up. Tab was up for a part or mentioned to tony that it was being cast and tony some how got it instead. He had deep angst about being gay and was in therapy for decades and practiced so to speak the first time with none other than victoria principal, the actress if I remember correctly.

Are there any good books about Tony Perkins?

R273, Won't you please give a hearty hello to R172?

R272

Believe if Tony Perkins were born a few decades later and came up now he'd be happily out and gay. But he didn't and that was a problem; more so because of his profession (acting).

TP had sex with men exclusively until aged 39 when Victoria Principle broke him in so to speak. He met then married Marisa Berenson about a year later and promptly had children.

Anthony Perkins was hot professionally both in theater and Hollywood by 1960 and his studio and handlers were putting the squeeze on him to marry in order to squash "rumors" of his homosexuality (which by then was widely know at least in New York City theater circles).

Far as TP was willing to go at that time was to move in with Helen Merrill to an apartment on 55th Street. When that block was slated for demolition and redevelopment Anthony Perkins and Ms. Merrill moved to a townhouse in Chelsea.

That twosome soon became a threesome when TP began dating Grover Dale who moved into the townhouse sharing a bedroom with his lover. Ms. Merrill acted as hostess and beard lending some sort of (wink wink) legitimacy to the whole charade that few who knew believed.

By early 1970's studio was still leaning heavily on TP to marry, and after meeting Ms. Berenson she moved into the Chelsea townhouse sending Ms. Merrill and Mr. Dale packing. Again TP did his duty by his wife and had children, but doubts then and still do swirl as to how "straight" he was after marriage. Sadly fact the was infected and subsequently died from HIV/AIDS is telling on one front. Grover Dale to his credit probably knows plenty but hasn't ever said a word.

Anthony Perkins was a very shy person, more so around women. IMHO had he been allowed to live his life as he was perhaps things would have turned out differently.

R274

Grover Dale could probably write a very good one, but so far he hasn't nor seems likely ever will. Probably when he passes away we'll get another Roddy McDowell thing where is papers/memoirs will be sealed up for one hundred years.....

TP certainly looks happy enough with his wife and family. Berry Berenson was about three months knocked-up when they married (Oz was born six months after their wedding). More creepy is that MB was not more than a young girl (25) when she married the 41 year old TP.

[quote]TP had sex with men exclusively until aged 39 when Victoria Principle broke him in so to speak. He met then married Marisa Berenson about a year later and promptly had children.

R276 Tony's wife was Berry Berenson (not Marisa Berenson)

Tab played Jimmy Piersall in a tv production of "Fear Strikes Out" (1955).

R272

Correction, make that "Berry" Berenson, not Marisa.

R276

Was busy with a different thread and didn't notice error; issued a correction however.....

R279

Caught "Fear Strikes Out" on Movies! channel several months ago, though it was one of TP's better roles.

Scene where he shows up at the girl he's courting apartment with a bag of groceries willing to make a steak dinner got me. I'd be like "come right on in...."

Here's the story about what ended the relationship with Tony in Tab's words (from the "Tab Hunter Confidential" (2015) script)...

[quote] TAB HUNTER: A live television show I did was "Fear Strikes Out." I played Jimmy Piersall. He was a ball player who had mental problems. Tony caught my performance and told me how much he liked it. I confded in Tony that I wanted Warner Brothers to buy the project for me to make a movie out of it. One evening we were playing ping pong on the terrace, and he said, "Oh, by the way, Paramount just bought 'Fear Strikes Out' for me." And it just was like, whoa. He had mentioned it to the studio, and they got it for him. He was a very ambitious young man and a very fine actor and he should be working. But I did fee lbetrayed by that move. He was very good in the film. But our relationship was strained after that. He told me that his studio didn't want him to see me anymore. We saw less and less of each other, and we just sort of grew apart.

Was Tab Hunter one of those "you don't want to be seen with Her" gays? That is everyone knew so if you were seen with him often it was guilty by association sort of thing.

"One evening we were playing ping pong on the terrace..."

Does anyone still play a rousing game of ping pong nowadays, on a terrace or anywhere else? *LOL*

Today two young gays likely would be at home playing video games or some app,

An excerpt from a 2008 interview with Jimmy Piersall . . .

"I’m guessing you were not as nuts as Perkins portrayed you?

Well, Anthony Perkins was a fag. He was a nice guy, a great actor, but he was a fag. I’m the only guy that ever had his part played by a fag. And I have nothing against fags, either [laughs]."

Well, it was ghastly. Well, it was just ghastly.

Perkins couldn't catch a baseball before he had the Piersall role.

I say, I say there's something kinda "eeeeeeeeew' about a kid that's never played baseball!

Roddy McDowall and Merv Griffin were fuck buddies back in the day. Roddy's huge cock must have made Miss Merv squeal like a pig.

[quote]Eddie Fisher, in his autobiography Been There, Done That (1999), mentions McDowall and his decades of hatred towards him. Fisher had first met Elizabeth Taylor at a party that Merv Griffin and McDowall had thrown in an apartment they were sharing in one of my favorite New York structures, The Dakota Apartments.

So Roddy was true to his name?

r291 Legend has it that Roddy could suck his own cock.

"decades of hatred" LOL

Wow, Eddie Fisher sure knows how to hold a grudge! I wonder what Roddy really did to him to deserve such scornful contempt? It can't have been just because he kept him away from Liz, they hooked up eventually. It must be something more... unless Miss Eddie really is just that big of a Petty Betty.

Carrie Fisher and her brother nicknamed their father "Puff Daddy" because of all the joints he smoked. He was no bargain to the end.

R294, Yet, Carrie and Eddie reconciled near the end of his life, if you saw the HBO documentary on Debbie and Carrie.

IIRC it was Roddy McDowell dispatched by Elizabeth Taylor who told Eddie Fisher his marriage was over. EF was livid that a "fairy" or some other nasty word for gays broke the news, and went off on a long rant.

As with so many gay men Roddy McDowell was like one of the girls to many actresses in Hollywood; sort of an honorary girlfriend if you like. As women are wont to do they talked and likely told him everything about their private lives, and other things they knew for that matter.

Again it is a testament to esteem felt by many that not much if any dirt came pouring out after Roddy McDowell's death. When you think of the times he lived through and circles he moved in those sealed memoirs must contain tons of terrific dirt.

More to R276...

In various other threads on DL where TP's name is mentioned a few piped up that they lived in Chelsea at same time and ran into the guy while out and about in area. Most said he gave off sort of a creepy vibe; and or as if he didn't want to be spotted.

Chelsea of 1970's and 1980's wasn't yet the major gay mecca it became in 1990's but was still adjacent enough to West Village to have spill over. Plenty of gays lived there, and of course Meatpacking District and piers (and all that went on down there) were just a short walk barely ten or so blocks south. So you have to wonder if Anthony Perkins didn't sneak off the reservation for some dirty, damp & deep.

TP's only other known famous lover who also had HIV/AIDs was Rudolf Nureyev who died in 1993 one year after Mr. Perkins. Since he was married in 1973 and by all accounts Mrs. Berrie Perkins remained HIV negative until her demise there is a story out there.

Writer, Christopher Isherwood mentioned Tony Perkins in his Journal:

"Tony Perkins to supper last night. We gave him such good steaks. Don fixed them. The almost unimaginable loneliness of Perkins 's life. One sees him as completely solitary. But he is going to an analyst four times a week (at 6:30 a.m.!)—apparently to get over the effects of splitting up with a roommate. He didn't say who. And we couldn't quite as him."

This was from November of 1958 so the "roommate" must've been Tab, I guess Tony took the breakup pretty hard.

More details on Roddy's rod.

[quote]The second time [we met] was at a coke fueled all-male party at the home of a famous producer in the Hollywood Hills. He couldn’t have been more gracious and friendly, and from his films I would never have guessed that McDowall was so profoundly "gifted".

To all his detractors:

R298

Think it's sweet that CI referred to TP's "roommate".

Suppose it was possible Christopher Isherwood didn't know, but find that hard to credit.

He had the X-factor.

Make of this picture of Roddy McDowell what you will.

I have to say if you are going to have a woman initiate you into heterosexual sex, 1970s Victoria Principal is a pretty good one to go with.

r303 I assume you meant this picture of Roddy.

R301 Isherwood was probably writing in code.

Homosexuality was illegal in the 1950s and he would have been protecting Perkins.

R306

Likely true; roommate, lodger, friend, close friend, business associate.....

Don Bachardy, Isherwood's longtime companion, also mentioned Tony Perkins in an 2009 interview;

Interviewers question; "Now, you and Christopher Isherwood were friends with the actor Tony Perkins, and my understanding is that he was trying hard not to be gay. He was married, had a child. Was he in therapy, trying to, you know, like overcome gayness, and did you watch him go through difficult periods?"

Don Bachardy: "Oh, I think he spent years on therapy and hoping that he could transform himself into a heterosexual. Thank goodness, that was never a problem for either Chris or me.

And in fact, everything that I value in my life has come to me through my queerness, and I've had an extremely lucky life. So, we understood Perkins and sympathized with him, but that was certainly not a feeling that we suffered from.

We - both Chris and I were very, very pleased to be queer."

I find Don's observation endearing but also pretty sad. Here were two gay men COMPLETELY comfortable with being gay, no qualms whatsoever about it, and at a time where you didn't even think gay self-esteem could exist or even be a possibility. But yet even they were not able to help someone like Tony Perkins come to terms with his sexuality. Roddy couldn't do it for Monty Clift either even though he had no issues with his own sexuality. Tab, Don, Chris.... doesn't seem like anyone could get through to him. It's sad to say but some people are just to remain in the closet forever.

[quote]It's sad to say but some people are just to remain in the closet forever.

I don't understand.

So like scores if not hundreds of other WASP men; TP had "issues" mentally.

Have never understood why supposedly a group that holds itself up as the best America has (or had) to offer often produces so many kids, young adults and even older persons with problems.

The children hate their parents, the parents hate themselves, and in between there's drugs, booze and suicide.

I know Roddy McDowell's diaries and photos are locked up for a hundred years but surely someone must have seen and read them.

Don Bachardy was a piece of ass. I mean, compared to Chester Kallman.

Didn't Isherwood get asked to leave as a houseguest because Don Bachardy was underage when they started dating?

Underage is putting it mildly; there was a thirty year age gap.

That being said if you believe various sources Don Bachardy was 18 years old when he began a relationship with Christopher Isherwood aged 48.

R315 I remember thinking they were fudging with his age in a documentary I saw because that is now so taboo.

Story in Don Bachardy's own words....

Apparently he was very young looking for his age, and people believed Don Isherwood was carrying on with a 12 year old boy.

Mr. Isherwood carried on with Don Bachardy's older brother (who is also gay, and was considered a beauty), for a while before moving onto the sibling.

Still you have to give the pair of them credit; while people like Tony Perkins, Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter and other famous persons were going to great extremes to hide their queerness; Isherwood and Bachardy lived openly and apparently quite happily in 1950's California.

R316

One has sneaking suspicion that is the case as well; I mean otherwise it would make Don Isherwood out to be some kind of child molester. He already had the brother, and Isherwood liked them young anyway.

Isherwood was used to Berlin, where teen boys were available for a sandwich.

Isherwood's Berlin love was Heinz Neddermeyer who was 17 when they began carrying on. He like other German youths Isherwood (and others) messed about with were sooner or later largely rounded up, sent into forced labor, then into the military.

R317: You can’t compare truly public figures like Hudson, Perkins, et al. With someone like Isherwood who was not well known beyond a fairly small circle of the public.

Another May-December romance... Tab Hunter met his life partner, producer Allan Glaser, when Glaser was 22 and Tab was 52, making "Lust in the Dust."

Gross. Tab was beyond old and tacky by then.

R313, It was psychologist and sex researcher Evelyn Hooker friend of Christopher Isherwood (and instrumental researcher into homosexuality) who had asked Christopher if he could leave her garden house, the place where he was living and invited Don to come move in with him, because her husband was anxious and feared that Don's youthful appearance could cause a scandal.

R324 Thank you.

Apparently, Tony and Berry were at some informal dinner party with friends and TP was introduced to a guest that he wasn't familiar with at the time. When the ladies retreated to the kitchen to get dinner started, Tony mimed inappropriate advances to the attractive stranger in front of the other guests. The one relating the story said they were kind of shocked at how blatantly TP came on to the guy.

I read this as an excerpt from a book about TP but can't remember any other details. A diary of some sort?

BB had a huge crush on TP and must have thought she hit dating and matrimonial gold when he took up with and later married the young woman.

That being said find it hard to believe BB herself hadn't hear the gossip that Tony Perkins wasn't the marrying sort of man, and or that her sister or someone else didn't sit her down. Then again were talking about a time when people largely still believed being homosexual could be cured by marrying a woman and breeding children....

TP didn't pick up HIV infection from a toilet seat. At some point during their marriage BB must have felt or known her husband was back to his old ways. What did she think he was doing with Nureyev? That was a man who'd fuck or get fucked by anything male within a eyesight apparently.

Probably won't be in released in their lifetimes, but believe one or both the boys will tell their side of things in a book to be released after they've gone. By then anyone who could be harmed/offended such as Grover Dale will be gone as well; which just leaves the grandchildren and other family.

R323

Caught Tab Hunter on a episode of Cannon last week; he looked awfully tired and worn. This was 1972 so TH was only about 35, but he looked far older, and harder.

Saving grace is episode also starred Alejandro Rey, so there was something else to look at besides William Conrad.

Tab Hunter had a heart attack in his early 40's.

Tab was doing the dinner-theater circuit in the 70's to make ends meet and support his mother. It wore him out and he had a heart attack around 1980.

The photo of a nude Roddy McDowell really doesn't much look like him. It reminds me of that photo supposedly of James Dean sitting naked in a tree. It wasn't him, but people liked to think it was.

Roddy and Jimmy sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g.

He was damn good in "Phadera".

R331, Like that naked photo of Betty White, which she has denied being her.

[quote]R264 Lee Remick still wanted to marry Stephen Sondheim even though she knew he was gay. Obviously he had some appeal.

No. She was already married when they worked together. Sondheim wanted to marry HER, and she was like, “Yeah, um, no.” But they stayed friends.

Those McDowell videos are breathtaking every time I see them. Wish someone would edit them into a full-feature film, with commentary and an id of everyone shown.

On this intrusive news coverage, you can hear Roddy delivering part of his eulogy at Natalie Wood's funeral in 1981.

Nice tidbit about Roddy McDowall from Christopher Isherwood Memoir: Lost Years. Date: February, 1945:

"Tom Maddox [Not real name] was a very good-looking young actor, of the type which is classified as "rugged." His career looked promising at that time, but he never amounted to much. He was having a dangerous and exciting affair with Roddy Mcdowall, who was then in his teens. According to Tom, Roddy was the one who started it. Tom said Roddy was insanely reckless and got a thrill out of having sex with Tom in the McDowall home, while Roddy's parents were in the next room."

Perkins is ultimately not so interesting to carry his own thread.

R338 Not sure I'd call Tony Perkins "rugged." "Tom Maddox" sounds more like Tab Hunter. In the link there's a picture of Tab meeting Roddy's actual parents.

Following quote from a VF piece pretty much explains why Roddy McDowall's papers are sealed for 100 years, and why so many trusted the man and saw him as a true friend.

"But as Christmas and my deadline approached, I’d gotten nearly everyone else associated with the film who was still alive to talk to me. The one other exception was Roddy McDowall, who played the nefarious Octavian in the film and, in real life, was very close to Taylor, Burton, and Burton’s first wife, Sybil. McDowall could not have been nicer in saying no; he called me himself to explain that he understood what my job was, but that he could never betray his loyalty to his friends. "

In turn for keeping other people's secrets it seems they have kept Roddy's so it works out well all way around. Well at least for those involved. *LOL*

R311

Roddy McDowel's attorneys, executor of his estate and perhaps a few others likely have seen or even read all of his papers; however there are professional ethics at stake along with possible legal action.

Sealed when it comes to legal documents, court records, etc.... means just that; the papers/records aren't available to general public or for release. But is isn't as if they are encased in some sort of lead coffin. Usually the papers are just stashed in a safe or file cabinet that can be locked. There might be a ribbon or something binding things together saying "sealed" or something.

No private attorney or law firm would stand for a blabber-mouth secretary or anyone else divulging confidential information. They would not only lose their job, but likely never get another ever again in that field.

Even if you managed to get at those papers; other than for your own prurient or other interests there isn't much you could do with found information. Some of those mentioned may still be living, and or their heirs, so any publication or otherwise dissemination of information could lead to legal action for slander/libel.

340, Tab first met Roddy in 1948 at a Christmas parade, so it couldn't have been him.

Tony, Tab, Roddy and Rock.

Who was the top?

r338/340: Tab Hunter was also three years younger than Roddy. In 1945, Roddy would have been 17. To ID the mysterious Mr. Maddox, you would have to think about actors who would have been considered a 'rugged' type at that time, but who apparently never achieved major stardom.

My guess: John Hodiak. Like McDowall, he was working at both 20th Century-Fox and MGM in 1944-45. I recall reading somewhere that he was secretly gay, although he married Anne Baxter in 1946, had a child with her in '51 and was divorced in '53.

R343 Ah, thanks for the correction.

R344 From the Edmund White anecdote @ R213, Tab. Tony, probably not. Guesses about Roddy and Rock?

R344 Interesting question. The only one I've ever heard about was Rock Hudson who loved to bottom and had a very much 'cum one cum all' attitude at LA bathhouses basically letting anybody who wanted to fuck him to do so.

Have never heard anything about the preferences of the other three. Would love to know though.

[quote] Some of those mentioned may still be living, and or their heirs, so any publication or otherwise dissemination of information could lead to legal action for slander/libel.

R342 Your other points are all valid, but the heirs of a dead person cannot sue for defamation, only the living can be defamed. Heirs can only pursue a defamation case that was filed by the deceased before their death. We covered that in my undergraduate Media Law class. Basically, once a person is dead you can say anything you want about them, which is why I am, at times, weary of allegations about dead people.

[quote] weary

Oh, dear.

R349 Oh, excuse me, oh great one, it is late on a Saturday night during a quarantine, I've had a few.

R339

It's difficult not to go off on various tangents because gay Hollywood of 1950's, 1960's, etc.. is much like many other gay communities then or even now; an almost incestuous crowd where everyone knows (and often) dated and or slept with each other. That or at least knew each other socially.

At at time when being gay could cost you your reputation, job, family and even risk of criminal prosecution gays (especially of a certain demographic) tended to club together. Going to a party, bar or whatever and seeing familiar faces put people at their ease, New arrivals would be introduced to the group and if accepted moved in same circle.

Yes, many famous gays back then cruised bars, beaches or whatever, but that was risky. Far safer to attend a beach or dinner party where things could be controlled and guests vetted.

World of "power gays" then as now was small in NYC, LA or SF; Tony Perkins, Tab Hunter, Grover Dale, Chris Isherwood, Roddy McDowall, etc... all moved in same circles; so if you start talking about one, invariably you're going to do so of the others.

R324

"Novels didn't come thick and fast, but a large portion of edgy domestic contentment arrived once Isherwood took up with the artist Don Bachardy, thirty years his junior and a college student when they met, in 1952. (Bachardy looked so much younger still that even Isherwood's friend Evelyn Hooker, a psychologist who pioneered tolerance toward homosexuality, felt scandalized.)"

Hahaha!

That must have taken some doing!

"Evelyn married her second husband Edward Niles Hooker, a Professor of English at UCLA, in 1951. The two had met at UCLA despite graduating from John Hopkins the same year. In fact, Edward had allowed Evelyn to stay in his guest house when she needed new accommodation following her return from Bryn Mawr. This guest house, as it was to turn out, was a very important building in the removal of ‘homosexuality’ as a mental illness. It became the home of Christopher Isherwood in 1952 and the exact location of her research into the Rorschach responses of gay men compared to heterosexual men. In fact, in September 1953 Evelyn insisted Christopher Isherwood, then aged 49, move out because her husband felt that his relationship with Don Bachardy, who was 19, would cause a scandal.1 After this short difficult period however, their friendship continued for years to come (see Bucknell, 1997)."

Professional Whore/Photographer Christopher Makos was one of Tony's paid boyfriends. Even when he was married to Berry. One day she left the room and, according to Makos, Tony started telling him what he wanted him to do to him. Makos responded, "Anything you say Norman."

I'd rather have one of Christopher Makos's models instead.

Poor Berry, you wonder if she knew and just turned a blind eye, or was totally ignorant of her husband's extracurricular activities.

She was a sophisticated woman. I doubt she was in the dark about Tony's other life.

Have to wonder about Judy Prince in this context. Her husband Hal had sex with men while enjoying a long and seemingly happy marriage together. Bisexual relations do happen.

Is the site playing up?

Suppose Mrs. Prince, Mrs. Perkins, and the rest of women who married gay men back then simply went along with the beard act same way other wives did when their husbands stepped out on them with females.

Even within confines of NYC theater circles back then being a confirmed out gay wasn't exactly something welcomed; so Mr. Prince pretty much was in same situation as plenty of other gay men back then.

As Crystal Allen quipped "What have you got to kick about? You have everything that matters; money, the prestige....." Yes, there may have been some noble wives like Mary Haines who felt their husband's love was worth more than anything else, but plenty of others saw things Crystal Allen's way I suppose.

Then again karma can be a bitch; Berry Perkins managed to get through her marriage without being infected with the HIV that killed her husband, only to die in a plane crash not too long after becoming a widow.

R322

May-December relationships (or whatever you want to call them) are and have been very common in gay community for ages. Isherwood, Auden and others weren't the first gay men to like them young, nor certainly the last.

OTOH not all of these "boys" are some sort of lost babes in the woods either. They are same as straight young girls/women; they know what they want/need and go after it effectively and efficiently.

Older men both gay and straight often have status, position, prestige, and of course money. Don't think many have any idea how many young gay men were launched into their professions, crafts, business or whatever by an older gay lover or partner.

Don Bachardy by some accounts was no better than a young gay prostitute when Isherwood moved on from his older brother to himself; he knew who the man was and made calculations I shouldn't wonder. It paid off rather well in end as don't believe DB would have had same life and career otherwise.

Have there ever been any gay rumblings about Adolph Green?

^ He never sucked my cock!

Our answers so far: Probably Tab was a top and Tony & Rock were bottoms. What about Roddy?

r362 Roddy was probably versatile. With his huge cock, bottoms must have been standing in line begging him to fuck them.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Will say it again; in is prime Antony Perkins was a very good looking young man. .

Ok, now we're getting somewhere; no wonder AP had hangups about women and turned out to be rather twisted; his mother basically molested him as a child. This could possibly explain all that analysis therapy.

quote After his father's death, Anthony's relationship with his mother became more asphyxiating. In a 1983 interview with People Magazine, he opened up about his mother:

"She wasn't ill-tempered or mean, just strong-willed, dominant... She controlled everything about my life, including my thoughts and feelings."

In the same interview, Perkins also discussed his mother's inappropriate touching:

"She was constantly touching me and caressing me. Not realizing what effect she was having, she would touch me all over, even stroking the inside of my thighs right up to my crotch."

He went on to say:

"... [I] completely repressed what my mother was doing - blanked it out."

/quote

From same source "he is also rumored to have been in liaisons with Troy Donahue, Paul Newman, Leonard Bernstein, Teno Pollick and James Dean."

R356

Methinks Berry Perkins just blocked out what she didn't want to know or face.

"Asked how she thought her husband had contracted AIDS, Ms. Berenson shook her head and said haltingly: "No. We don't really know. No. It's not worth it."

R366 Wow, good find. Lots about Perkins not commonly known.

R316

In some (early?) interviews DB gave his age as "16" when he began keeping up with Chris Isherwood; perhaps thinking more scandal would titillate. Several persons ran things to ground by finding DB's birth certificate and doing the sums; he was 18 years old. Of course CI was doing the younger brother first, so who knows if there was a bit of something going on with the younger before it became official .

R316

In some (early?) interviews DB gave his age as "16" when he began keeping up with Chris Isherwood; perhaps thinking more scandal would titillate. Several persons ran things to ground by finding DB's birth certificate and doing the sums; he was 18 years old. Of course CI was doing the younger brother first, so who knows if there was a bit of something going on with the younger before it became official .

[quote]he had exclusively same-sex relationships until his late 30s, including with actors Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter and Nick Adams; artist Christopher Makos; dancer Rudolf Nureyev; composer/lyricist Stephen Sondheim; and dancer-choreographer Grover Dale, with whom Perkins had a six-year relationship. Perkins has been described as one of the two great men in the life of French author Patrick Loiseau. He is also rumored to have been in liaisons with Troy Donahue, Paul Newman, Leonard Bernstein, Teno Pollick and James Dean.

damm, gurl!

*applauds*

If you believe linked story Mrs. Perkins apparently liked Teno Pollick and "approved" of her son's relationship (whatever that was in her eyes) with him; going so far as promising to leave TP a great legacy. When she died and no such thing happened TP felt betrayed.

Antony Perkins mother sounds like a piece of work.

R370

Am beginning to believe anyone who was gay in Hollywood had a piece of Rock Hudson. But then again as has been stated it was rather a close circle of gay actors at that time. Seems they all knew and fucked/messed around with each other.

"Anthony Perkins mother sounds like a piece of work."

Well, he DID try to hide her in the fruit cellar............. twice.

Who was Teno Pollick anyway? A quick search doesn't turn up much besides IMDb page, and even that is pretty sparse. He doesn't even have a Wikipedia page....

A request: can you please stop the abbreviations? It took me awhile to figure out that TP was Tony Perkins, now it's being used for Teno Pollick.

Was Monty Clift also on that list of Perkins conquests? The Bosworth biography on Monty Clift described a young aspiring actor who was just starting off in showbiz. I think some time around 1951. Monty took him under his wing; he moved in with Monty in his new apartment, Monty gave him money, helped him with his acting career and managed to land him a role in a big Hollywood film. All of Monty's friends were wary of this young actor and caution Monty that he was being used. One friend described him as being a dislikable punk with an unattractive personality. They didn't name the guy but I instantly thought it was Tony Perkins. And given the way he behaved with Tab over the Fear Strikes Out role I wouldn't be surprised if he behaved like this with other people in the industry. Anything to get to the top.

If " Teno Pollick" is the only name used in sentence, paragraph or whatever, then subsequently "TP" should refer to who else?

R373

More that is uncovered about Anthony Perkins mother and his childhood puts Norman Bates into perspective.

I mean it all fits doesn't it? The conflicted, twisted and perhaps somewhat warped man Tony Perkins became likely can be traced straight back to his childhood and that perv mother.

Anyway, more dug up dirt.

Tony Perkins was apparently pally with Maila Nurmi (aka Vampira), and was at her home when a telephone call came saying James Dean was dead.

Maila Nurmi close friend and confidante of Tony Perkins is source of story about TP and Paul Newman hooking up.

If true (and have no reason to doubt) that must have been some hot sex. Young Paul Newman and Tony Perkins; I'd pay good money to have caught a glimpse of that.

Moving away from the prurient; they do say that film Psycho killed off any further romantic leading man roles for Tony Perkins. Does anyone feel this is true?

TP had a strong career in theatre and certainly looks to carry off romantic lead roles well into 1970's if not 1980's. Then there was always Broadway/theater which is where (IIRC) TP got his start.

R376

Have not seen a single mention anywhere of Tony Perkins and Montgomery Clift even hooking up much less as lovers.

All of my teenage male friends in the late 50's wanted to be Jimmy Dean, not those pretty boys Tab and Rock and Tony. We were highly suspicious of those guys playing cowboys and soldiers and baseball players. They weren't convincing in the slightest like James Dean was in playing that "Rebel!" Plus James had the decency to die tragically young, before his lifestyle became tabloid fodder.

Perkins really was not a great leading man. He always was a character actor with perhaps too much ambition for his time. If he'd come along 10-15 years later he could have found a place as a leading man, if an odd one, but the opportunities to be a leading man were probably closing by the time of Psycho.

R376 That was probably Jack Larson.

Love her!

R379, And at the bottom of the blog post it reads "Source: Darwin Porter’s biography, “Paul Newman: The Man Behind the Baby Blues” (2009). "Biography" here is used loosely since we all know Porter writes historical fiction.

R384

Well there's something I didn't know until now; Jimmy Olsen from Superman was gay, and hIs life partner was James Bridges.

I am just stunned. Stunned is the only word I can use to describe how stunned I am.

Maybe it's just me, but even in his prime Tab Hunter just doesn't rate.

I mean he's blonde, blue eyed, tall all American type, but other than that... nothing.

I knew Teno Pollick back in the 1970s. He was a friend of Keene Curtis and I would see him often at gatherings at Keene's house. Nice guy but I never knew about his relationship with Tony Perkins. I knew of other men's relationships with Perkins though.

Teno also died of AIDS

R390, Teno committed suicide on Sept 5, 1991, after a "long illness."

R389 & R390 & R391

Thank you for that bit of information. Sort of had a feeling Teno Pollick did something extreme, but didn't want to speak out of turn. I mean there is just so little about the man on internet and his death is almost as obscure. No, he wasn't a huge star or anything, but still not even any sort of obituary or whatever mourning his passing. Didn't he have any family?

Keene Curtis was one of those actors you saw frequently on 1970's and 1980's television shows, he also did the voice for Judah Zachary on Dark Shadows.

If the actor who befriended Clift was in need of money, it probably wasn't Perkins. He came from an affluent family, and an influential one. He would have had a lot of show-biz connections.

R387: Larson was socially well connected in the world of gay men we've been discussing. He was always a talking head on bio type shows about them. Maybe not as connected as Roddy McDowall, but he probably took a few secrets to the grave with him.

In this excellent documentary, Jack Larson is interviewed and clearly states he and Monty were a couple.

He tells a funny story about first meeting Monty, Merv Griffin brought Larson to Clift's apartment. Monty liked Jack on sight and they wanted Merv to leave so they could get busy.

It's funny: Jack Larson was famous for having a very large penis -- and Clift was famous for having a very small one.

I love this thread. It’s better than Tea & Sympathy.

R384, I don't think it was Jack Larson, the person in question is described as being an 'unlikable punk.' Jack Larson was a well-mannered and respectful guy I've never heard a bad word against him or Roddy McDowall (of course with the exception of Eddie Fisher). And also he had already obtained his most memorable role as Jimmy Olsen in the Adventures of Superman before he had met Monty Clift so the thought of him being a showbiz 'user' is out of the question at least in this instance.

Jane Fonda tried to seduce Tony. Tony wasn't interested. Apparently Victoria Principal and Berry Berenson were much more persistent than Jane.

R399

Considering Berry Berenson was at least three months gone at time of her marriage to Anthony Perkins your statement rings true IMHO.

Then again it only takes one sperm with a sense of direction so who knows... Berry by that time was living in sin with TP at his Chelsea townhouse so there would have been a scandal if he didn't make an honest woman out of her.

Of course the PR was great for Anthony Perkins; plenty of people then as now believe a man capable of laying with a woman and siring children cannot be gay (if only that were true), so a situation that many straight men would flee from worked out well for TP.

In casting Perkins for Psycho, I wonder how much Hitchcock knew about his homosexuality and his controlling mother. Hitch loved the Hollywood gossip, so I’m guessing Perkins story was pretty well known and discussed in the industry. The Norman Bates parallels are eerie.

R401

It was actually other way around; while yes Antony Perkins being light in the loafers was likely a topic of gossip in Hollywood and elsewhere; it was his portrayal of Norman Bates that actually sent Mr. Perkins on edge so to speak. It all hit too close to home apparently and the ease of which the actor identified with his character preyed upon his mind. So much so AP didn't wish to discuss Psycho and his role for years.

Long story short Antony Perkins soon went into therapy and that is where the whole ghastly stories about his childhood and mother began pouring out. Much of this would be later recounted in that famous interview in People magazine.

Antony Perkins obit in LA Times

People Magazine interview 1976

People Magazine interview 1983 where TP tells of his mother (basically) feeling him up as a child.

Janet Esselstyn Rane died in 1979, so was long in her grave when this appeared, and it certainly was well after Psycho premiered. Don't believe TP opened up previously about his childhood to such a public extent, thus doubt Hitchcock or anyone else had gossip on that matter.

On another note there are reasons why many mothers past and now bug out when their children announce they are in therapy. Ever since Freud psychiatrists "always blame the mother" is the view taken since source of many neuroses seems to be linked to events of childhood. There are only a handful of ways to truly attack a woman; her morality is one, the other is her skills or whatever as a mother.

[quote]He said he had a homosexual encounter, but described “that kind of sex” as “unsatisfying.” He went through intensive psychotherapy and, at age 39, had his first close relationship with a woman.

From his obit.

Makes you realize how much rubbish we read every day.

R406

What would you have him say? Have you never heard of self loathing gays?

Reading that obit it seems comment was made prior to TP's death, we don't know when however. Clearly TP and BB were both deluding themselves as you don't get HIV from a toilet seat. Thus gay sex obviously wasn't that "unsatisfying" because Tony Perkins kept going back even after his marriage.

Yes it is a load of flannel; but even late as 1990's people were still coming to grips with their homosexuality that they themselves had tried so hard to hide, but now was being laid out in open by their HIV/AIDS.

Rock Hudson came to embrace things for what they were and outed himself. Liberace OTOH along with family and friends went to great lengths to hide things, and almost succeeded were it not for a determined coroner.

It was actually BB who got her husband to open up about his HIV issues because she just couldn't cope any longer on her own. That resulted in a "few" close friends being told, but the genie was out of the bottle now.

That LAT obit is BB, her children and to some extent Tony Perkins trying to massage things; the image they so carefully cultivated of TP as a happy and loving (straight) husband obviously wasn't the whole truth. So how does one square that circle?

To his credit in his last time on this earth seeing suffering of others with HIV/AIDS who often were far less fortunate than himself seems to have settled TP's soul.

Still say if TP had been born several decades later; say in 1960's or 1970's he might have grown up to be like another good looking WASP gay with issues; Will Truman of Will and Grace.

[quote]Liberace OTOH along with family and friends went to great lengths to hide things

fooling precisely one blue-hair from Ho Chi Minh City

There is a old joke that goes hundreds of women would drag their sons to Liberace concerts or sit them in front of his television broadcasts saying one day the hoped they would be just like him when grown up. Fathers of the boys shot back they hoped differently!

Liberace was the gayest gay that ever gayed. She put the flame in flaming queen so just don't understand how anyone in their right mind thought he was straight.

Amazing we got through this entire thread and not one mention of Sal Mineo. Fact that he got to tap Bobby Sherman's ass ought to mean he otherwise got around Hollywood.

Berry Berenson...

She's a whore.

She's a slut!

Kill her, boy. Kill her now!

R410, Has that ever been confirmed?

Yes! I really miss their bread bowl salads

Oh and those god damned magnificent mammoth corn muffins. Fuck me running those sweet corny fuckers were mouthwatering and to DIE for

R412

All I know is have seen the story, rumor, or whatever the Bobby Sherman hooked up with Sal Mineo; but have yet to see or find anyone refuting it happened.

Bobby Sherman is very much alive, so if this gossip weren't true you'd think he'd take legal action against one or more of the publishers of books/online sites .

"His personal life also underwent profound changes in this period. In his glory days Mineo was a confirmed womanizer, and enjoyed a long and intense relationship with actress Jill Haworth, his co-star in Exodus. By 1963, however, different feelings had begun to emerge in him, and an affair with future teen heartthrob Bobby Sherman began for Mineo what became a virtually complete switchover sexually to the company of men. This is an intriguing aspect of the actor’s life I wish Michaud had delved into further—I found myself wondering what was happening emotionally to this ill-educated poor boy from the Bronx as his feelings edged away from what was culturally acceptable toward what was strictly forbidden, even unmentionable. In any event, he quickly became, if anything, even more sexually busy with men than he had been with women. (This put me in mind of a line from Tennessee Williams’ Memoirs: “When I came out, it was with a hell of a bang.”)

Choreographer Randy Skinner looks a bit like Tony Perkins. Here's a picture of Skinner when he was younger.

Michaud acts like he was the first person to ever write a book about Sal Mineo and that he rescued him from complete obscurity. There were at least three books written about Sal prior to Michaud's (and at least one minor, self published one since).

Bobby Sherman today(on the left).

R395

Merv Griffin was probably hoping for a three way.

Jack Larson telling story of how he and Monty Cliff hooked up. And yes, to me it certainly sounds like Merv Griffin wanted a piece of that action (Monty) or maybe a three way. Either way he didn't take the hint obviously to Monty and Jack had to make a date for later after they got rid of Merv.

Wow, have seen so few pictures of Monty Cliff in color; he truly was one handsome man....

Could do without the back hair, but that could be dealt with or at least worked around.....

Sorry, hit post before adding link.

R421 R422 His name was CLIFT.

R395, That documentary is very well done and available ON DEMAND. Monty's nephew put it together with the assistance of years worth of correspondence, home movies and even recorded telephone conversations that Monty's brother had collected. It's fascinating to hear Monty speak of his life and career in his own voice on the recorded telephone conversations.

I wonder if Tony and Jean-Claude Brialy hooked up during the making of Two Are Guilty (1963).

Sal might have been a latecomer (so to speak) regarding homosex, but didn't he do it with Yul Brynner when he (Sal) was just a boy?

I heard Sal was bisexual as was Yul...but this should not surprise anybody.

Isherwood and guys who go for men who are decades younger and either underage or very young do so because they are immature and anyone their own age would laugh them out of bed and not put up with their BS and drama.

After seeing pics of Yul Brynner naked, anyone who got with him was lucky.

[quote]Isherwood and guys who go for men who are decades younger and either underage or very young do so because they are immature and anyone their own age would laugh them out of bed and not put up with their BS and drama.

No, they are sexually attracted to younger guys. How is that hard for you to recognize? Gay culture fetishized twinks.

Jack Larson and Monty C. were actually together for a bit (lucky JL), wonder why they broke up.

One of if not first singing role on Broadway was as young Prince of Siam in The King and I, starring Yul Brynner . While there are plenty of accounts that Mr. Brynner mentored and otherwise helped young Sal Mineo as he was starting his acting career, can find nothing suggesting or even stating things went any furhter.

Sal Mineo was a beautiful child and attractive if not "pretty" teen and young man; but YB by all accounts was a confirmed pussy hound with several wives and god knows how many mistresses littered about. At height of his career Yul Brynner could pull any female by almost literally looking their way; he liked Sal Mineo far as that went (even attended Sal's funeral), but don' think there was any sexual relationship.

Christopher Isherwood was everything some would have gay men (especially older) to be; he routinely preyed upon (there really isn't another word) young boys or youths. By his own accounts CI's sexual partners numbers at or above 400, and a great many of those were young or teen aged boys.

If DB didn't look as if he was twelve years old at the time, it is likely Chris Isherwood might not have bothered.

Until rise of Nazis put a stop to things Germany was one of those places gay men went to find (besides something resembling acceptance) young boys/men for various purposes. The other European country was Italy, in particular the south. In film (and I believe book) Maurice he is advised to move abroad to such places on the Continent where homosexuality wasn't a crime per se, and could find a measure of acceptance.

None of this is new; the infamous Cleveland Street scandal involved older gay men from the highest circles hiring young rent boys.

Teens have sex...gay or straight, teens have sex, figure it out and sometimes adults have sex with teens and it can be a good thing...can we get over it?

Teens have sex...gay or straight, teens have sex, figure it out and sometimes adults have sex with teens and it can be a good thing...can we get over it?

Isherwood was a great writer, but like Cukor and Cukor's pals, he was nasty old queen who used boys and young men.

thank god for those Nazis R433

R426 I bet they did.

[quote]R345 My guess: John Hodiak. Like McDowall, he was working at both 20th Century-Fox and MGM in 1944-45. I recall reading somewhere that he was secretly gay, although he married Anne Baxter in 1946, had a child with her in '51 and was divorced in '53.

They look really bitchy together.

How could Hodiak NOT be gay?

Hodiak giving off a definite Gyllenhaal vibe at R439

R439, Anne Baxter only had nice things to say about him in interviews, even after they divorced.

He died of a heart attack at 41.

R433, You're implying that he was a child predator is completely false. A lot of the men he had sex with he met at bathhouses, gay dens etc, and most of them were rough trade, who voluntarily slept with him. Christopher Isherwood also had sex with men his own age, as is documented in "Lost Years" and with men of varying ages all above the legal age. His longest relationship, before he met Don was with a guy named William Caskey, a 20-something year old wannabe photographer. The relationship lasted for seven to eight years and Christopher considered it to be his first mature, adult relationship.

R437, fuck off homophobe

R428 I can understand the attraction to some twinks or guys in their 20s but these guys were with underage teenagers who could not even legally drink, and that's fucked up and predatory.

R436 Harvey Milk did this as well, the book mayor of Castro street mentions this as does the old documentary from the 1980s.

According to rumors I've heard late former NYC mayor Ed Koch liked them younger as well.

R447 It's not as if he could find them older.

Back to Tony... This biography from the 90's sounds chock full of Tinseltown dish:

[quote]Split Image is at its most powerful as a window into an especially claustrophobic era for gay actors. Winecoff details what one of Perkins’ male lovers calls ”the excruciating dance of the fifties” like an anthropologist. He brings to life the seedy trysts in Times Square gay porno theaters (where Perkins sometimes passively watched other men have sex on the stairs), the arranged dates with starlets for Modern Screen, and the fear gay actors had that magazines like Confidential would expose them — the way it did with Tab Hunter, allegedly one of Perkins’ first lovers. ”Within the circumstances, it was a love affair, but to anyone else, we were ‘college buddies,”’ explains one of Perkins’ early lovers, a Harvard scholar called William. ”Gay lovers who acted like gay lovers were something that only existed in the Greek Isles…. This was the fifties, a public person could not go public, even if he wanted to. And Tony didn’t want to.”

[quote]”Nothing was going to get in the way of his career,” says comedian Alan Sues. Indeed, Perkins rarely comes off as a sympathetic character. He freely described himself as a mama’s boy and lived platonically for years with a domineering older woman named Helen Merrill while enjoying often kinky sex with a succession of male lovers.

[quote]The book’s strength lies in its voluminous research and wonderful, gossipy detail. (Winecoff claims that Rock Hudson was ”ecstatic” when James Dean, his costar in Giant, was killed in a car crash, crowing that one of his main competitors had been ”eliminated.”) Its weakness is its flat, pedestrian prose. Winecoff (who met Perkins once when he sold him porn in a gay bookstore) admits in the preface that he has felt haunted by Perkins since adolescence and saw the actor as his ”doppelganger.”

Has Oz Perkins partaken of the homosex like his daddy?

Was he good friends with Ackroyd? I could see them shoveling some drugs together.

He would be 88 years old today

I saw this headline and thought it would be about the family restaurant.

Not exactly an original thought, r453. Try reading the thread first.

I'm not going to read all 452 posts of this thread just to please your extreme prissy fastidiousness, r454.

Don't like it? [bold]TOO BAD.[/bold]

I was similarly misled.

I wasn't.

He needed a chin implant badly like Pete Buttigieg.

Anthony Perkins was fine just the way he was, no chin implant or whatever needed.

There is no pleasing some of you people. Either you're moaning about plastic surgery, tattoos or whatever else guys have done to their bodies/faces; or going on about how so and so could benefit from this or that enhancement.

He didn't need a chin implant FFS

More Tony hotness

R460, I'll take that chin implant.

Surprisingly, Tony Perkins was a recording artist...

He was a very good singer.

What was his ethnic heritage?

R465 Plain ol' English (with some Irish, Dutch, and German).

Flirty

Roddy would fellate himself at parties.

With Raf Vallone in Phaedra (1962)

He's adorable in those gifs from "Phaedra," but then again I always liked dorky guys.

This is kind of cheesy but it captures the pathos of closeted life in 50's Hollywood...

A couple of firsts... Tony in his first shower scene and baby Jane Fonda in her first credited movie role (age 22)...

I could never understand why Phaedra would obsess over the shy, milquetoast, artistic son, when she had that hot, sexy, alpha husband to love. And there was absolutely no heat between Perkins and Mercouri, just as there was none between him and Ingrid Bergman.

[quote]Roddy would fellate himself at parties.

If you have to resort to that, your hostess has failed.

A nice montage of Perkins film clips accompanied by his excellent rendition of "How About You? from his first album. Interestingly, he and Tab Hunter both had recording contracts and both co-starred in films with Loren.

In his youth, Grover Dale had the face of a silent film star of the '20s.

Quite cute, and he matured into a handsome elder.

After Anita Morris died in the '90s, did he go back to the homosex?

James Badge Dale is the only good thing ever to come out of conversion therapy.

Hot man.

Jimmy Piersall, who Anthony Perkins played in Fear Strikes Out, was one hot piece of (crazy) ass.

He lived to 86 and died just a few years ago.

I am currently rewatching The Young Girls of Rochefort. Grover had a lovely ass.

Gorgeous Jimmy.

If Grover Dale ever writes and publishes his memoirs there is going to be a whole lot of people spinning in their graves.

My guess is since hasn't let it all hang out to date, he is probably going to take things to his grave. Whatever papers or other bits that name names so to speak will likely be destroyed the family when handling the estate. Or, perhaps as with Roddy McDowell papers will be locked up for nearly a century or more.

Still must give Grover Dale credit for having class; in an era when every two for a penny tart or rent boy rushes out selling their stories to media, he has remained largely silent.

i wonder if Grover Dale ever hooked up with George Chakiris.

Grover is going to be interviewed on the podcast Behind the Curtain soon.

I wonder if Grover has ever talked to his son about his one-time love.

Arthur Darvill of Doctor Who could play Grover in the movie.

R449 any idea as to which kinks Perkins was into, besides watching men have public sex?

I dug out my copy of Split Image. The author interviewed one of Tony's FWB, an "actor-dancer" he started hooking up with around 1960:

He said they had "Not the normal gay sex. Anything that got sloppy and messy was fine. Tony became like an animal. He loved being pissed on, and from that moment on it was 'You name it, I'll do it.' He loved eating a guy's ass after he got fucked, things like that. There was some S&M. We had sex in leather. He wore jeans. He liked inventiveness."

"He had a thing for men who were tall and thin, who had more of a coarseness than he had... He was fascinated by anything that was kinky. He started getting a reputation for what he wanted, the off-color stuff, not just getting into bed and sucking and fucking. It had to be more than that. It had to have an animal quality."

The author said Tony and his partners liked to dress up in suit and tie to give and receive golden showers.

[quote]I dug out my copy of Split Image. The author interviewed one of Tony's FWB, an "actor-dancer" he started hooking up with around 1960:

He said they had "Not the normal gay sex. Anything that got sloppy and messy was fine. Tony became like an animal. He loved being pissed on, and from that moment on it was 'You name it, I'll do it.' He loved eating a guy's ass after he got fucked, things like that. There was some S&M. We had sex in leather. He wore jeans. He liked inventiveness."

"He had a thing for men who were tall and thin, who had more of a coarseness than he had... He was fascinated by anything that was kinky. He started getting a reputation for what he wanted, the off-color stuff, not just getting into bed and sucking and fucking. It had to be more than that. It had to have an animal quality."

>The author said Tony and his partners liked to dress up in suit and tie to give and receive golden showers.

Damn! Now that's kinky! I assume he also was into scat, vomit, blood, or extreme raunch/kink, the kink where people put food or beer on each other and have sex while dressed or nude (I forget the name off hand), and being fisted? That's not my scene at all and I am not vanilla. thanks for looking it up.

It would not surprise me if Perkins was into the kinks of enemas with or without piss. I have met men into this and it's too extreme.

[quote]It had to have an animal quality.

He got his kicks dressing up as Pepe Le Pew and Penelope Pussycat and playing the skunk and cat game.

"Actor-dancer" Grover Dale's nice ass...

R487 I feel bad for Anthony Perkins, as he is exhibiting classic self-loathing and closeted behavior sexually. I know a gay man who was married to a woman and he would basically do anything sexual with anyone and it did not matter if it was extremely nasty or kinky and he liked piss-drinking it and having men piss on him, heavy S&M/B&D, being fucked by random men, enemas, rimming ass or being rimmed and not caring if he or the other men had cleaned out (yuck!), group sex, gang bangs, being fisted, taking extremely large dildos, being a cumdump for random men, being degraded or called names when being fucked/sucking cock, and he is very lucky he only got herpes and nothing else as he was used to having sex without condoms like he did in the 1950s and early 1960s before he married his wife.

He was in a completely sexless marriage for decades and was very closeted/repressed and has since came out and no longer has unsafe sex like this. His ex wife never got herpes from him as they had not had sex in many decades, and she found his text messages on his phone to guys he would hook up with and read what he was into on the hook up apps.

R491 which guy is Dale-Grover? Did he get his ass spanked by Perkins?

R493 - Grover Dale is in the blue shirt from "The Young Girls of Rochefort" with George Chakiris (also referenced by R479 and R482).

More on Grover Dale and his legacy as a dancer from the blog of an admiring LA choreographer...

R488

Ewwwww! That's just too icky!

Nothing is worse in my book than hooking up with a gorgeous man only to find out he's a gross freak in the bedroom. Well unless one is a gross freak as well, then it doesn't matter.

Wonder if Tony Perkins was always that way in bed. I mean Tab Hunter never mentioned, or maybe he was into such things as well so felt it was normal.

Seem to recall other threads on DL mentioning or about Tony Perkins were a few people who lived in Chelsea spotted him out and about. They all seemed to say he gave off "weird" vibes.

R495, well he did portray a serial killer in Psycho...and in the old photographs of him he has a very powerful and distinct stare, and the whole 'clean cut' image he tried to project was anything but that in reality, and how he was into extreme kinks/fetishes and very raunchy sex is not surprising to me.

Does anyone have the Scotty Bowers book? Did Bowers claim he had sex with Perkins, or not? It has been years since I read the book and I cannot remember, I do not have a copy handy, and my library is closed. I know that in the book Bowers claimed that Tyrone Power was into scat, as I have heard for decades long before the book was published but I wonder if he meant Perkins instead?

R496 Here's a screen grab of what Bowers says about Perkins in his memoir, Full Service (2001) because I'm too lazy to type it in. Unfortunately, Scotty didn't give details out of respect for those still living at the time (like Tab Hunter or Tony's family), so it's kind of tame.

Thanks R497. I really wish Bowers or someone else, maybe even Frank Langella who is bisexual as well and who slept or was lovers with Hollywood actresses/actors would write a "tell all" book about the golden age of Hollywood, and actually go into great detail. I read Bowers' book and it was not bad but some of the stuff he claims, that unless he kept journals or diaries are rumors I have heard for decades such as how Tyrone Power was into scat and nasty kinky sex, and the whole claim that lots of hollywood actors and actresses would instead of going through escort services where discretion was guaranteed which is what happened in most cases, go to a gas station worker/pimp makes Bowers not as credible.

R498 Then again, it's also possible you've heard those rumors for years because they're true.

Yes I know R498, I find scat disgusting and it is very disturbing people are into it...I have seen it by accident on tumblr and I have no idea why anyone would be into it?!

R498 Ty Power's got nothin' on me.

R501, Me, neither.

I hear they have a good federal student loan program.

Wasn't there a tidbit in "Split Image" about Tony going to the dentist or doctor and they found "strange liquids" in his mouth or something like that?

Why would I want to talk about the dead?

[quote]Wasn't there a tidbit in "Split Image" about Tony going to the dentist or doctor and they found "strange liquids" in his mouth or something like that?

No.

Bunch of bitches on this thread.

Jane was desperate for a piece.

Interesting that Grover Dale, after Anita's death, married a man. His autobiography is due soon.

I think Berry had to have known he was fooling around with men on the side.

Poison Ivy with Tuesday Weld. Always playing to itchy-twitchy type. I put him with Sandy Dennis and Geraldine Page as quirky one-notes.

R509 Grover Dale is obviously bisexual.

That's just what i was saying, r512.

I saw Tall Story (1960) this weekend and Tony Perkin, although quite lean, has a surprisingly nice body.

I just recently read 'Split Image: The Life of Anthony Perkins' very interesting and entertaining biography. It would be fun to dissect and discuss here, I wish I could post excerpts from it but I don't know how to do that. There used to be a DLer who would start endless threads on celebrity biographies and share almost the entirety of the book. I'm certain some of those threads are still around. I miss that DLer dearly.

R515 I remember that DLer did a Shelley Winters memoir that was impossible to stop reading.

Celebrating the 60th anniversary of Perkins' iconic role...

His son makes moody, slowburn horror movies I’m very fond of.

(His son with Berry Berenson, btw, who I just recently discovered was killed on 9/11 when her plane barrreled into the wtc — how horrible.)

A more in-depth tribute to Norman Bates et al...

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R157 A friend of mine lived on the same block late 1980s to mid 1990s and once he mentioned in passing that Anthony Perkins lived in that townhouse. One late night around 1988 probably past 2am as I was leaving my friend's apartment after a late dinner party I saw Perkins walking down the street and arriving to his home and going up the stairs. Even back then most people who knew his situation as a married family man still assumed he was a closeted gay. When he died in 1992 I remembered seeing him that night and wondering if he was returning from a hook-up.

A friend of mine met Perkins in NYC in the late 1970s at an event, admitted he was a fan and said Perkins was very friendly and they stayed together at the event. My friend who is bisexual and sort of kinky as he likes bondage and spanking, did not hook up with Perkins as Perkins was very discreet/closeted.

I would not be surprised if Perkins went to the mineshaft, the toilet, the piers, any number of tea-rooms, adult bookstores, the baths, hired hustlers, etc. He's rather plain looking and could easily disguise his appearance and lie to tricks that he was not famous.

This was a great, informative thread on many levels! Thanks for bumping it.

I'm guessing he got HIV some time in the 80s.

Heartbreaking quote from Perkins on AIDS...

[quote]Perkins urged compassion and understanding about acquired immune deficiency syndrome, and hinted at his frustration with the entertainment world. "There are many who believe that this disease is God's vengeance, but I believe it was sent to teach people how to love and understand and have compassion for each other," he wrote. "I have learned more about love, selflessness and human understanding from the people I have met in this great adventure in the world of AIDS than I ever did in the cutthroat, competitive world in which I spent my life."