Landmark Forum formerly est

I had no idea it was still around. It’s a load of crap, OP. Save your money.

The Wiz is full of est thanks to Ms Ross and others

And John Denver

isn't EST Scieno-adjacent?

the only person i have ever met who admitted they had done those seminars was a sociopathic manipulating cunt. not a good walking advertisement.

Ug. I had it BAD for a guy who first brought me to a 'friends helping friends' pyramid scheme; you bring $2K and you hand it over to someone (!!!) and hopefully in a few weeks it happens to you where you get $40K.

NEXT, he brings me to a Landmark Forum. How nice of him to offer to drive!

Because then I couldn't leave!

It was amazing how I found the strength to break things off after that. My self-preservation outweighed my attraction to this guy. Thank God.

I did a lot of these courses back in the early 80s when it was still est. More than anything those courses helped me with self discipline and being more effective. People were so pleased with the results they obtained, that some became really obnoxious about getting their friends and family involved. For me the problem was that since the seminars had helped me so much with core issues, I thought that I could handle everything by just becoming more disciplined and rigorous. I should have been seeing a doctor for depression; that came later. I did, however, finish my bachelor's degree while working full time, graduating with honors. I later graduated from law school with honors. I doubt I would have done that without what I learned in the seminars.

the bathroom thing: during the weekend courses, the rules were that unless you had a previously disclosed medical condition, you weren't supposed to leave the room: not for phone calls, not for a cigarette and not to use the toilet. The idea was that people avoid difficult topics by leaving the room or somehow distracting themselves rather than listen to a discussion about failure or bullying, etc. No one was physically restrained from leaving the room. I'm sure lots of people were "guilted" into staying put. Staff and volunteers could be very effective.

I did it. It's absurd. The big secret at the end: the meaning of life - there is no meaning except the meaning you give it, so it's up to you to create a life in which you find meaning, and that's achieved through creation of something (art, business, social work, charity, etc.).

Run the other way—Landmark is a cult. Like $cientology, they dupe their members into taking the same "courses" multiple times and charge them insane amounts of money. They are a business.

I have also heard that Landmark was affiliated with, or a front for Scientology.

est was totally a money scam.... my ex did office work for them, and they were scandalous..

At least 25 years ago, I worked for a small business. One of the principals of the company got into Landmark and pressured employees to join. Sociopathic cunt, she was. Some of us younger employees (early 20s) thought it would be good for our careers. So I shelled out for the beginner course and went.

All in all, it was a complete waste of money and time, but I did learn a very valuable lesson about saying “no” and how targets are selected and pressured. I’ve never fallen for a scam again. The people I met in that seminar were affluent, intelligent and educated, and seemed to aspire to be even more so. And I did take away a few good things about integrity and work habits.

I’ll never forget that one old man disagreed with something a lecturer said, and tried to argue. The speaker heckled him and the guy wound up storming out. The old man made some good point and it was fascinating to see how the speaker tried to deflect and then humiliate the old guy. Then it became a “teachable moment” after he left. The speaker shredded him.

A few years later, I was at a wedding with my boyfriend at the time. We had flown to the other coast to attend his stepsister’s wedding. The couple and their friends were all heavily into Landmark. Sitting with them at the rehearsal dinner, I kept hearing the lingo. Affluent, successful people all talking in the same psychobabble way. It was terrifying.

Leaving out my own personal involvement (“I used to work with people who tried to get me into this thing”) I told my boyfriend about it. His mother was delighted with the gossip because she hated the stepfamily.

That’s my story.

[quote]I did it. It's absurd. The big secret at the end: the meaning of life - there is no meaning except the meaning you give it, so it's up to you to create a life in which you find meaning, and that's achieved through creation of something (art, business, social work, charity, etc.).

Their big secret actually doesn't sound too bad, although if it's sold the same way the $cienos do theirs then it's obviously ridiculous. I haven't even heard of est before, for a second I thought the thread was about elaborate scenario trolls and had to google it. I've read tons of self-help books over the years and at one point when younger I was on my way to become a monk in an Indian yoga organization. It seems practically all movements and self-help books do have have some valid points that really can help people to achieve something they're after. I'm personally now doing goal setting maps because my psychotherapist said it probably helps in my issues (procrastination, getting nothing done, daydreaming etc). And yes, it really does. Then again she's concentrating in cognitive behavioral therapy and we've talked a lot about various techniques.

[quote]I’ll never forget that one old man disagreed with something a lecturer said, and tried to argue. The speaker heckled him and the guy wound up storming out. The old man made some good point and it was fascinating to see how the speaker tried to deflect and then humiliate the old guy. Then it became a “teachable moment” after he left. The speaker shredded him.

When things turn cult-y it's always a bad sign. The speaker in your case was a total cunt and it seems extremely uncertain of being able to defend his own teachings if he can't even offer counter arguments without turning into a nasty bully.

R12, that was really the point where I woke up. “You might be right. Let’s agree to disagree” would have been sufficient. The bullying was a tactic, they made an example of that man, and it had the desired effect. Everyone else doubled down; nobody wanted to challenge the speaker and they wanted to prove what foods believers THEY were.

I had a friend who was deep into Landmark Forum. I found out this later from another friend. When I met up with him a few years ago he was being very mysterious about this organization he belonged to. It all made sense when I found out he was associated with Landmark Forum.

I want to hear about the est scandals. Wtf happened, r10?

The biggest problem imo is people who had serious trauma or mental illness being “helped” by people who aren’t professionals trained to do so. It’s the pyramid scheme of self-help.

These things are a replacement for religion, only you have to pay. 100 yrs ago, people would go to church and then break have specific groups to discuss their problems. Now people don't have that support network, so they fall for this.

My neighbor does Landmark. She's a 60-yr old woman, kids are out of the house. So she goes to these meetings and 'helps' other people w their problems. It's a place for her to talk.

She tried to get me to go to a meeting, I said no. So then she had a meeting at her house, she asked me to come to help 'train' a new person. Other neighbors and local friends were there, and of course they tried to recruit us. I had pre-arranged for another neighbor to text me that my dog was barfing at her house, so I got out of there early. The 2 people who were trying to recruit were pathetic.

R11 and R17 have good stories. Dangerous for lost people. I also found people who had no religious upbringing were especially susceptible. I’ve since changed my thinking about religion and kids - some concept of religion can make kids aware of the spiritual option but also recognize the ugly side of organized religion/cults.

I did find the “life has no meaning except what you give it” insight helpful in my mid-20s. As well as the idea of commitment and honoring your word. It’s a shame it was wrapped up in a multi-level marketing scheme/cult.

The pressure put on mentally fragile people was sad to see. I actually went back a few years later for another weekend - and left about halfway into the first day. Already knowing the few kernels of insight and how the weekend plays out, it was thoroughly revolting and disgusting and I could barely contain my horror at the manipulation and mind control efforts.

The guy who owned The Break and The Works in NYC was a hardcore Landmark guy. He was a mess.

There were some really good aspects of it to be honest. The worst was the way they called and called you constantly afterwards to push for more classes.

[quote]The guy who owned The Break and The Works in NYC was a hardcore Landmark guy. He was a mess.

I think his name is Andrew Marachinski. Whatever happened to him?

I took the intro weekend one in the 90s in Seattle. The leader was a lady originally from NYC. at some point a young guy said he had a small penis. Later during a session where they pressure everybody to bring friends to learn about taking the program she got the guy in front of hundreds and got him to say he had a small penis. She then said no I didn’t mean that...as she laughed riotously. The guy next to me just looked at me aghast. I think she did it all on purpose.

A lot of est people from the 70s and 80s went on to incorporate the teachings into other groups or businesses. I taught at a private therapeutic boarding school in the 90s for a year that was run by and owned by a bunch of ex- esters who used it as a business model to work with the out of control teens of rich parents from across the country. Apparently Paris H almost went there but was sent to another school at the last minute. The people and place sucked and ultimately the school fell apart. Most of the est owners had no business running a school or working with young people, but programs like est pushed “trainings” that led participants that they were properly trained to work with the weak and wounded sans any real professional training. There are other personal development organizations that do similar weekends and push trainings and have an est-like, culty vibe.

Apparently Cheyenne Jackson’s husband got him sucked into Landmark. Here’s the link.

The “leaders” are true manipulative sociopaths. Some of the most twisted people - acting like all-knowing gurus/dictators who get some poor souls to humiliate themselves.

What was the scandal with Werner Erhard, the guy who founded it? (Real name: John Paul Rosenberg).

Didn't he abscond with a bunch of money or something? I know they whole thing changed over to be "Forum" in the late 1980s, getting rid of the "est" name (which stood for Erhard Seminar Training)

Apparently he was in trouble with the IRS over tax shadiness so he sold est and left the country.

Lifespring! What are you pretending not to know? Results, not reasons. How did you set that up?

I had a friend lure me to a Landmark meeting once after he'd completed the course. I had no idea what it was going in, but it quickly became obvious that it was a cult of some sort. SUPER high pressure to get me to sign up, which I did not. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was going on, but Sum Ting was Wong.

I was brutally raped at the last session so I don’t believe it works.

Speaking of which, one day a few years ago, I was having a coffee with my husband in downtown Manhattan. This young couple started chatting us up. They were so very good-looking it made me suspicious immediately. I thought maybe it was a sex thing. They were affiliated with the “What the Bleep Do We Know?” group. We promised to look into it and then escaped.

I remember the Landmark people sort of bragging that it was an offshoot of est, but that it was sort of new and improved.

I’d never heard of est, so it didn’t mean anything to me.

It’s a rebrand of a personal development culty ponzi scheme

[quote]I was brutally raped at the last session so I don’t believe it works.

Do you have the address, r28?