Be Honest.

YOU, Rose.

That's a short menu Gladys.

I hope Schock is just getting snark votes.

Most gay men I know are not self hating parasites so I chose Petey.

Also, Pete looks your average white guy—not some muscle queen. That’s what most guys look like (give or take a few pounds, height, features).

I have never met a gay man like schock in real life. Two of my friends are massive sluts but they also aren't narcissistic sociopaths. I know a few gay men like Pete but most aren't like that either

Opposite ends of the spectrum. Most men are somewhere in the middle; meaning normal.

Aaron because he spends time sending nudes and associates with a shallow group of friends with the attitude of their high school homecoming queen with the horniness of their homecoming king.

Wow some of you queens hate gay people.

It makes me very grateful for my gay friend group 🙏🏿

Why isn't Miss Lindzey listed?

[quote] Also, Pete looks your average white guy—not some muscle queen.

Is Aaron white?

Pete is twice the man and politician Schock could ever hope to be. He talked openly about his marriage and kissed his husband on some of the biggest political stages. Yet some on the progressive left acted like he was the one who by day voted for anti-lgbt measures and by night was caught stuffing dollar bills in a male stripper's underwear.

Because Miss Lindsey is not a man.

If I knew any gay men like Aaron I'd push them in front of the nearest speeding car.

R9 That is what I was thinking of when I posted the poll.

To those who say the two choices are extremes...yeah. That’s the point. If you had to boil down the qualities of gay men you know into one group or the other, which would be a closer match? It’s not a science. It’s not even that serious. But it is (to me, anyway) thought provoking.

My baseline notion of Buttigieg is: Admirable, intelligent, ambitious, decent, hardworking, service oriented, eloquent, traditional values of a kind (married, homeowner, churchgoing), but not hateful.

My baseline notion of Schock is: Narcissistic, likely sociopathic, criminal, unaccountable, entitled, self-promoting, self-aggrandizing, self-serving while claiming he’s a public servant, claims to live according to traditional values but actually lives like a super-liberal literal whore whose entire life as it is now would be entirely impossible if the GOP had its way.

Other gay men I’ve known have not mostly been as rotten inside as Aaron Schock shows himself to be. They’re not that vile. But most of them are similarly narcissistic, delight in casually tossing out cruel judgments that can be legitimately hurtful to others and consider it funny, while also being ultra-sensitive to criticism. They preen at the gym and with groomers, they seek out status-related jobs, they build lives around luxury goods, vacations and the gym, and the way they *present* themselves to the world is as close to the way Schock does as it could be. Now, I live in Washington, D.C., and I grant that it could be a D.C. thing as much of a gay thing. But looking at gay media, gay pride celebrations, the “Instahos” that are posted here constantly, etc., even gay men who look and act more like Drag Race contestants aim to present themselves as “Pit Crew” models. And in the end, it seems like if Buttigieg represents one end of the spectrum and Schock the other, most gay men I have known fall more on the Schock end, where looking like a porn star and projecting ‘hotness,’ wealth and status to the world are absolute top priorities before any other life consideration.

I’m being honest about my perspective. I’m guessing most people here don’t feel it applies to them.

Aaron's problem in Congress were the financial scandals with public payroll expenditures. The courts allowed him to escape the charges.

His coming out is no surprise. However, keep him away from being elected to any more government offices.

It’s funny, I used to work with a young guy (A few years younger than Schock) who works on the Hill now. He once said something so unexpectedly insulting to me, while laughing, that tears just suddenly gushed out of my eyes like a faucet was turned on. That was extra humiliating because it was in the office. I didn’t know I was so vulnerable, but he zeroed right in on an insecurity and torpedoed right through it. And I didn’t see it coming. It actually took me back to middle school and high school bullying and gave me some fodder for discussion with my therapist. But even when I cried, he just laughed. Everything about it was weird in my view: my over-sensitive reaction was weird, and his response, entirely devoid of empathy, was weird. As it would turn out, he’s a skilled social and professional climber and he doesn’t seem to have a capacity to empathize with other people at all based on what I’ve seen as years have gone by. Yet he is admired by many. People seem to really gravitate to people who are relatively attractive and put a lot of work into styling and grooming, even when those people, like Schock, tend only to take advantage of other people if they deem them useful and otherwise regard those people as beneath them. (This is textbook sociopathic behavior.)

He’s young, many people find him attractive, he’s so arrogant you can practically feel it, he works out at a gay gym full of porn star-looking mean gays, he sought out a status-oriented education and job like a heat-seeking missile. As I see him, anyway, he is very smart and he has used that to get him everything he wants: which is to be admired and to admire himself with a lust that many people find very off putting. He found out once that someone didn’t like him and told me and I didn’t understand what he was bothered by. He told me “literally everyone I know thinks I am the nicest person I know.” I told him no, that’s not true. And he said yes, yes it is true. And I told him (and it should not have been news to him at all) that he is on my list of least nice people I know and he appeared genuinely shocked.

As with Schock, there was zero self-recognition.

The first impression people have of him when they meet him is that of an attractive young gay man with an impressive resume who works in a powerful job on the Hill. His Instagram account is him smiling with groups of gym-built gays, with groups of smiling gays at brunches, and of him in power stances at important-appearing settings. And then when they get to know him...well, it’s Schocking to many that he presents himself as such a clean-cut, accomplished and cheerful gay guy but he looks down on everybody, has a superior and off-putting personality, cannot even come close to taking personal accountability, and yet somehow goes through life believing others believe he’s some kind of Mother Theresa. It’s very strange and in my mind, it’s Schock-y. He could be compared with Buttigieg, too, based on his resume and accomplishments, but Buttigieg is foremost in my mind just someone who seems like a decent adult who has engaged in introspection and has an actual interest in being a public servant.

R17 Schock very well may end up back in elected office. Here’s why:

—His skill set is his appearance and his charm. Nothing else. Like a classic sociopath, he can be charismatic and superficially charming to people. That makes for an electable politician.

—He can now pivot his whole life based on the gay-victim thing. He’s an opportunist. I got a text from a woman I work with last night telling me he was trending and saying she feels so sad for him and hopes he can be happy now. People will fall for it and many people will accept his upbringing as an excuse to dismiss all his wrongdoing and even his criminal behaviors.

—He lives in California now and he likely would run from California. He has spent several years networking with wealthy and influential gay men there. He has teased running for office several times now. He sneaked into his overlong statement that he would now support LGBT rights in Congress even though he will remain a Republican. He told Morning Joe a year ago he is considering running for office again so that, he said, he could try to pass laws to protect other innocent congresspeople from being persecuted the way he was. Yep, he said that.

—Most importantly, he had to resign from office in disgrace, he was charged with 24 felony counts for stealing money for personal luxuries. Even with a technically clean record, there aren’t many employers who wouldn’t see those as red flags. But elected officials don’t have to pass background checks, nor do they have to pass drug or alcohol screenings. Elected office is designed to be a harbor for people with sociopathy who have committed crimes and can’t get white-collar work elsewhere. I’m sure he sees Congress as an ideal fit for him given the lack of standards of character required to be a congressperson. All he needs to do is whore himself to rich old men with money—which he has done with Elton John and David Furnish, Sam Smith and whomever else Eliad Cohen and Mark Kurian have connected him with—and use that money to buy himself a seat in Congress.

[R9], it is a DC thing.

I’m from NY, but (unfortunately) had to spend a few years in DC. The DC gay crowd tends to be what you describe. I find the NYC gays have more substance, are more accepting of others, and care less about grooming.

I still have friends from DC and meet them in rehoboth every summer. It’s so easy to pick out the DC gays. They will have shaved legs, over plucked eyebrows, have a high pitched-whiny voice, talk so loud the whole beach can hear them, and embellish what their job is. I don’t know how you stand these people.

“I don’t know how you stand these people.”

I don’t stand these people. And it makes me sad and, yes, bitter. I hoped for more out of life as a gay adult, but the reality is that I simply do not fit in with gay men I’ve met. And I won’t fake who I am to fit in with people. I thought about that for a long time before being honest with myself and accepting that I just do not *like* most of the gay men I meet. Their values are contrary to my values. I don’t want to look like a porn star. I don’t care that I am getting older. It’s not a tragedy to me. I don’t give a shit what people do, how much money they make or how much their condos are worth. The only thing, in truth, that bothers/hurts me is seeing that this sort of person is always in very large gaggles of other gay men. That makes me feel like I should have a different life with more gay friends. That’s in theory, though. All the groups of gay friends I see are like this group pictured with Schock and I genuinely, through and through, do not want to be around people like this because we have absolutely no shared interests and we don’t share a worldview. So I have decided I have a paradoxical longing in some ways for a social life I don’t want. But jealousy/envy really is not a factor. I don’t look at people like this and want to be them, and nor do I want to sleep with them. I just wish I had some gay male friends, but I would only want them if they were interested in creative pursuits and other shared interests, and that just is not a thing here. People here take the “your body is a temple” thing to heart and they dedicate their lives to worshipping at their temples.

R21,

I think you may be happier in another city. I have a few friends in DC who are authentic and wonderful guys, but i would not enjoy living in DC at all.

Why don’t you try taking vacations in other big cities and try to immerse yourself in the gay scene in those cities. For example, spend a week in fire island or Miami/Fort lauderdale. Maybe try LA/Palm Springs. Try to see where you find people whose company you enjoy. You would probably have a better time if you go with a friend or two, as it may be intimidating or lonely to go alone.

R22 By myself? I’m way too introverted to go traveling around alone trying to make gay connections. It’s fine. I have nearly everything else in life that I’ve ever wanted for or needed. Desperately seeking appreciation of other gay men just isn’t high on my priority list. It’s fine. As I said, I carry some bitterness (we all do about some things in life; this is mine) but it’s not overwhelming.

[quote] My baseline notion of Buttigieg is: Admirable, intelligent, ambitious, decent, hardworking, service oriented, eloquent, traditional values of a kind (married, homeowner, churchgoing), but not hateful.

Aren't you describing a Boy Scout? I was just about to ask if this was another thread where someone ignores all of Buttigieg's chracter flaws, weaknesses, failings and sleazier qualities while pretending he's something he's not. And yeah, it is.

aaron is typical of a certain type of gay man who lives in a gayborhood. pete is more typical of gay men out of that bubble

Aaron was way ahead at first but now more people are voting Pete and they are neck and neck. I hope this portends a future trend among gay behaviors.

How dare you even compare the two. One is an intelligent married gay man who wants to make a positive difference and the other is a piece of shit who did everything he could to hurt gays. Aaron is the definition of a true sociopath.

R27 Right. So how many gay male sociopaths do you know versus gay male non-sociopaths? That’s the question. It’s not a comparison.

[quote] Who is more like most of the gay men you’ve known, in terms of [bold] presentation [/bold], interests and character?

This poll is invalid since Buttigieg never presented hole. It's like comparing apples with oranges. Schock can only be compared to pornstars and fame hos who presented their starfish for everybody to see.