Gore Vidal living in that house on an Italian cliff

#1 Wow.

#2 I'd be afraid that thing would slide off into the sea after a heavy rain or earthquake.

Absolutely beautiful. If I lived there, I would never want to leave.

I saw it after he died. The thing I remember the most is actually that it was very hard to get to, so I can imagine not wanting to leave very often.

Vidal was the bitchiest, most miserable queen who ever lived, but he could be very funny at times.

DL historians: how did it come to be that Amalfi was surpassed by Genoa, Venice, and Pisa in the Mediterranean trade of the late Middle Ages? It seemed to have so much promise.

Gorgeous

Stunning

I saw a documentary on him that showed the house. I think he moved out once his partner died.

The origin for "Rosebud" was a rumour he started

What a glorious house.

I must contact his estate and say he promised it to me after his death.

R9 - that can't be true because it was in Citizen Kane.

R1 plus the fact it's only a stone's throw from Mount Vesuvius

Its not enough to succeed, others have to fail.

I remember hearing a documentary about Vidal on CBC radio. He had this beautiful home but he spent his last days from morning to night drinking himself into a state of oblivion. He must have been severely depressed.

[quote] plus the fact it's only a stone's throw from Mount Vesuvius

I was only a stone’s throw from Mount Vesuvius.

Oh, the stories! Nureyev in particular.

Bimp.

[R5] Not a historian, but I remember studying that period of Italian art and mention of the fact that the local aristocracy were beyond impossible to deal with.

The views are spectacular. While I wouldn't worry at all about the house sliding down the cliff, I would be concerned with the drive up there, and even more so the drive down.

Vidal's houses were always exquisite. His place in Los Angeles, while nowhere as beautifully cited, was equally charming, and his magnificent Hudson River place he admitted he regretted ever selling.

I cannot imagine Gore's attitude melding very well with the local culture of that particular area at all. Not his scene at all.

I picture him more off of the coast of Brittany or the Scottish Highlands.

Vidal led an enviable life. Why was he always so unhappy?

R20 - any pictures/profiles on Vidal's other houses?

The house is stunning. I enjoyed reading Vidal back in the day. Also enjoyed William F. Buckley's Firing Line on PBS. That was back when conservatives were sometimes intellectual and amusing.

Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley, Jr go at it. Enjoy.

R22, were there many happy gay men of that era though?

Perfection.

Chip in?

I’m sorry, but I seem to have problems with remembering the Location, Price, and Size...

I'd love to see the Hudson River house.

His Hudson River house, called "Edgewater" in Barrytown, NY.

[R23] [R28] - [R29] just beat me to it! The house was purchased and restored by the eccentric classicist Richard Jenrette. Its present appearance is a museum of 1830s taste and quite rigorously correct, although, to me, less graceful than it looked in Vidal's time. I visited the house just after Jenrette's purchase and before it was open to the public: he had a cocktail party for Historic Hudson, and the house was mostly empty. It really is an extraordinary work of architecture and is literally right on the Hudson.

Amtrack cuts through the back yard, so there is that to deal with.

That would be "sited".

Beautiful house with a beautiful name: La Rondinaia [The Swallows' Nest].

I guess someone did a lot of swallowing.

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One of the most beautiful arias from Italian opera reperotire is Ch'il bel sogno di Doretta" from "La Rondine" by Giacomo Puccini

[quote]Vidal led an enviable life. Why was he always so unhappy?

Gay men of Vidal's generation had a lot of issues. They were often miserable and could be vicious, no matter how privileged they were. "The Boys In the Band" was of that era.

That’s funny r27 — was going to make that sane joke myself but you cleverly beat me to it!

^^^ same

Yes r37 — let’s not forget those were the days in which you could be convicted of a crime for fucking a man in your own bedroom. The world was completely different for gays back then.

Always felt Gore Vidal was a miserable so and so going back to even his youth because despite his patrician background and connections, he was never given is (felt) rightful due. Worse as GV saw things others including "all the wrong people" were moving up and ahead of himself...

A politician manqué because despite his background was never appointed to a state department or any other government post. Comparatively poor even though is mother divorced his father then subsequently married Hugh D. Auchincloss who in turn divorced her to marry Jackie Bouvier's mother.

Then there was fact Gore Vidal was gay, and while his background and later fame shielded him from worse of discrimination it still meant certain doors were closed.

R37

True but Gore Vidal had less to worry about on that front than other gay men of the period.

Howard Austen met GV in 1950 (at the Everard Baths of all places), and they were together for over fifty years in an open relationship. Few if anyone believed the fiction Gore Vidal put out that they were "just two men who lived together", but it apparently didn't do either much harm socially or otherwise.

Compared to gay men from roughly same period (1950's through 1960's) such as Tony Perkins, Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, etc.... Gore Vidal had a far more carefree life as a gay man. There was no pressure on him to marry, and apparently after meeting is life partner they carried on a perfectly normal if not boring life together.

R42 even for upper-class gay men there were a lot of doors that were shut to them and they still faced discrimination and stinging comments from others. True they had it easier than middle-class gay men of the period, but it still wasn't easy, and that affected them psychologically.

R25

There were many "happy" gay men or couples in 1950's or so. However much would depend upon how you are quantifying happiness.

Mr. William Haines and his life partner Jimmie Shields were by all accounts happy. Christopher Isherwood and Don Bachardy , Jack Larson and James Bridges, are a few A-list gays. We know from those random home movies and pictures that popped up there were other plain ordinary middle class gays who managed to carve out lives and were reasonably happy, well under the circumstances anyway.

They were the anomaly r44. Sure there were happy gay men back then but that wasn't the general experience. Vidal did however have the luxury of not having to be totally closeted like so many others.

R13, that quote is from Oscar Wilde.

Gore Vidal was a bitter queen, a massive snob, poor company, convinced of his own brilliance, entitled, totally self-absorbed but rather a successful author and B-list celebrity with good taste in real estate. He complained about the stairs to this place on the cliff: what stairs, they're not shown in the links? How do you access this house; how were groceries delivered (even the Olympian GV ate and shate); weren't GV and Howard Austen ripped off by the local WOPs on prices for ... everything? Gore claimed to be a total top and that Italian boys had the cleanest holes; I imagine he was not referring to the local young men, but was fucking further afield. Stairs?

Dirt!

Such a long article darling R48. Almost as bad, self-indulgent as something from The Atlantic or the so-called New Yorker.

Typiical of his entitled view:

Gislason said Vidal was “very aware of money… He said Woody [Harrelson] made two million dollars a year in royalties from Cheers. Gore would get faxes about his royalties and rights. Along with his intellectual sense came a certain amount of interest in wealth. He was keen to make clear he was part of the ruling class too. ‘You know, the family has been owed a president for some time now,’ he said. He expected the Gores to be in that league.”

"the family has been owed a president for some time now" This is an attitude which must be suppressed.

R47

Daily Fail link seems to be inoperable, or goes to something entirely different. Try one below which shows all those stairs.

Had no idea GV was so pally with Paul Newman and Susan Sarandon . The late Princess Margaret, that I can see; two prissy snobs who thought their shit didn't stink.

Seems GV followed a long and well traveled path of other wealthy American and European WASP gay men to south of Italy. We're people minded their business and sex with beautiful male youths or men was easily had, well at least for right price.

Thanks R50 but it still does not address the stairs issue: those stairs go down: down to the villa; or down from the villa? I loved this bit in R50's article: “We were happy. The gods’ (sic) never tolerate such happiness for long.” I am glad they were happy (but I doubt it) and it is instructive that Gore thought that the Gods (whatever) were interested in his domestic arrangements.

Yet more dirt:

OMG - the views!

BUT the Amalfi coast isn't nearly as impressive when the sun is not high in the sky at the height of summer.

I went in August and the beauty was incredible - the went back in May and it was very boring and sad. The gray sea did not look good.

Jimmy Trimble

You can dump your ashtrays and chuck your garbage right out the window!

I very much doubt that Princess Margaret would have gone to that place.

R52

Let's put our thinking caps on sweetie! Look at the pictures, and read description of the place. Why would those stairs be leading up from (and away) villa? More importantly where would they lead to since the house is literally built into the sides of a cliff?

You can see in picture where cat is perched at top of stairs they lead down towards the water. If you read descriptions of the villa they mention having to climb three hundred some odd steeps to reach the place. An arrangement by the way not uncommon up and down the French, Italian, and other coast areas of southern Europe.

[quote] three hundred some odd steeps to reach the place. An arrangement by the way not uncommon up and down the French, Italian, and other coast areas of southern Europe.

Three hundred steps: extremely uncommon anywhere.

Anyway, if you can reach the villa from above, I see no point: above looks like some kind of municipal project.

GV had his own political ambitions too. He said, "America needs a Gore in the White House, and I don't think it's my cousin Al."

R57

Oh I don't know....

Yeah, Gore ran for Congress on the Entitlement Ticket and lost.

Or even better:

Do you really, DL queens, think Princess Margaret had the patience to climb 300 steps? Of course she didn't. You are a disgrace.

He may have ended up a bloated nasty old cow, but Gore Vidal was quite attractive in his youth. One had no idea, it gives more credit to his lusting after that BMOC Jimmy Tremble, and apparently vice versa.

Poor Jimmy Trimble joined the army and got killed to escape Eugene aka Gore.

That will be in the sea soon. Lovely though

R64

Am trying to work that one out as well, just cannot see how HRH would manage, even if she wanted to as cannot see Princess Margaret shedding her high heels and French couture (along with major foundation garments underneath) to hike up all those stairs.

Refined internet search reveals it is possible to drive up to the villa, but like many such places along southern Italy or French coast it involves narrow roads with hairpin turns.

"Writer Erica Jong, who visited Mr. Vidal there in 2000, described her arrival at "Prospero's domain" as a daunting ordeal involving a death-defying drive along hairpin turns ending with passage through three separate sets of gates sealing the home off from the outer world like a fortress."

I read a fair bit of Gore. Forgettable, mostly.

[quote]Does it get better than this?

Compliant Italian boys with round asses could add to the experience.

[quote] Refined internet search

R68 is a credit to this site.

Learn.

Nasty grasping toady cunt to the end, Gore Vidal left his entire estate to Harvard; a school that he didn't attend, and certainly doesn't need another thirty million.

At the time Vidal said he was giving up the place because he had a bad knee and couldn't manage the 300 steps. Such a fraud. You can get to this place from above, by car and it is so easy to get to that they have three sets of gates (no doubt to fend off the parents of the difiled local boys). I can imagine Princess Margaret going anywhere she wanted by limousine; but can't imagine why she would want to visit Gore anywhere. He was such a snob.

This pic shows him in Hollywood draping himself on Jack N, while getting too close to Princess Margaret. They both look tolerant; Gore looks needy. The Tynans will have nothing to do with him; did he gatecrash?

Stairs lead directly to village and so forth below the estate. GV (and others presumably) choose to use those stairs when going down into town for a morning paper, dinner, coffee, to the beach or shops.....

Considering what happened to Princess Grace of Monaco I'd choose the stairs as well over narrow roads with hairpin turns.

From above link:

"Just look at La Rondinaia: its remote but near a village with fine shops and cafes, with a train line that’ll take you to Rome and its airport when needed. And imagine the walk up to the place, a tree-lined ascent that invites dreamers and dissuades salesmen."

He was born Eugene Louis Vidal. Where did the Gore come from. His grandpa I assume. If his granddaddy was so important why not call him Gore from the start. When did he assume Gore as a name. It is an indictment of US literature that this poseur was allowe to carry on.

[quote] a tree-lined ascent that invites dreamers and dissuades salesmen.

I suppose Princess Margaret was a salesman of sorts. She nevah went.

Gore Vidal was a hot man when he was young. I read in some biography that after WWII, he and his partner would go into Rome when there were no jobs around, they would pick up some hot guy on the street and fuck him and then give me some money.

Here's a picture of him when he was 21.

[quote] when there were no jobs around

Sure, he'd fuck the unemployed for money. He was a soi-disant patrician and believed in altruism!

Gross R79

R76

You really need to read up on things; answer is out there.....

"The middle name, Louis, was a mistake on the part of his father, "who could not remember, for certain, whether his own name was Eugene Louis or Eugene Luther". In the memoir Palimpsest (1995), Vidal said, "My birth certificate says 'Eugene Louis Vidal': this was changed to Eugene Luther Vidal Jr.; then Gore was added at my christening [in 1939]; then, at fourteen, I got rid of the first two names."

Protestant families can be rather sloppy about christening their children. Catholics usually have baptism not long after birth (well until recently anyway), but for some reason Gore Vidal's parents waited almost a decade before getting around to things.

Not one person ever gave him even the slightest nudge on those stairs?

R83

Why would they? GV and his partner gave employ to countless men and young boys for sexual favors, then there was the other trade his fame brought to the village. In short the guy was good for the local economy.

Latin based cultures often have odd ideas about gay sex; long as a man is pitching not catching it isn't so bad. Though IIRC someone mentioned above GV was a top.....

Again what GV and his partner did wasn't new; well off European men (mostly from UK), have been going to southern European countries like Greece or areas along south coast such as Sicily, Naples, or whatever for easy going sex with young boys or men. Where do you think Gordon Merrick got all those plot ideas?

[quote]One louche-looking, barely-clothed maiden, arms wantonly outstretched in the de Matteis painting, was described by Vidal in the image of one of his most famous house-guests: “Princess Margaret asking for another gin and tonic.”

I had to laugh at that quote, from the article at r48. Is there any doubt that GV would have been quite the DLer?

Besides being gay he had a privileged but loveless upbringing. He clearly idolized his father, but you get the impression that that the father wasn't around, but rather was busy having affairs and being appointed to boards. GV claimed his father didn't care about money or position, but he had affairs with society women and probably made a lot of money. He also never acquired the literary/intellectual fame he thought he deserved. His politics were an odd mix of standard issue lefty stuff with aristocratic privilege. He acquired lost causes with age, involving himself with the Oklahoma City bomber. He also never stopped talking about his various 8th cousins (Jimmy Carter) and such.

GV's grave is not far from Jimmie Trimble's. Rock Creek has a lot of local old money and a few political celebs but compared to other celebrated garden cemeteries, it's pretty plain and disappointing. The old, old DC money is at the more crowded but better sited Oak Hill in Georgetown--that's where Sally Quinn illegally planted Ben Bradlee. He belongs near an Olympian social climber like her. Kitty Kelley is wring about where his grandfather lived---they wouldn't have even considered being that far East of Rock Creek Park.

Was GV Jewish in origin? He certainly looked it.

I'm reminded of the cliffside lairs of the Emperor Tiberius and Sissy Goforth in "Boom!"

R21

Sweety that is the thing isn't it? Brits and Scots who could afford it have been decamping for southern Europe soon as easy ways of travel made it possible. First by boat train to the continent, then by train (or worse by carriage), down rest of way. Or via boat/ship directly down, then finally via air travel once that became an option. In short anything to escape the cold, dreary and damp UK weather, especially during winter months of the year.

Scores of villas were built or bought by wealthy British in southern Europe as their bolt holes during winter. They made up their own company by going to each other's houses or inviting people to theirs. La Rondinaia was built by Ernest Beckett, 2nd Baron Grimthorpe, or rather the huge main estate Villa Cimbrone was, and Lucy Grimthorpe cleaved part of the estate to build LR.

Of course now thanks to cheap package holiday tours and or airfare all sorts of English descend upon parts of southern Europe such as Spain. Hence that quote from Carmen in Ab Fab...

Hamish - Where you been?

Carmen - Spain!

Hamish - Ah, off the beaten track ... Andalusia, forgotten Catalania. My own secret Majorca.

Carmen - More like my own secret arsehole. It was a shitty bit of coastline ruined by patronizing English gits. 'Oh you must come over and share a rather fine local Rioja. Oh, piss off you sad twats!'

If it wasn't south of Europe, Brits were also going to various colonial outposts such as Mustique, where also they could make their own scene.

R11 -

You misunderstood what R9 is posted.

His point is that Vidal started the rumor that the reference in Citizen Kane is to Marion Davies.

Read first part of linked article on how to reach GV's place on that cliff.

Has anyone read a good bio of Gore?

[quote]Was GV Jewish in origin? He certainly looked it.

Although Vidal's haute-WASP snobbery and famous feuds with some Jewish neo-conservatives (Midge Decter, Norman Podhoretz and the Commentary crowd) led him to be labeled an anti-Semite, he lived with a Jewish man for most of his life and had very close relationships with people like Paul Newman. In his book, Palimpsest, he reveals that the Vidal family line was descended from Italian Jews.

Interior is ugly.

I loved Gore's Narratives of Empire historical fiction series and Live From Golgotha was one of the best parodies of Christianity ever written. The Italian house had magnificent views but it must have been expensive to maintain.

Pro-tip, FF and ban the Princess Margaret spammer if you want this thread to be cogent and readable.

I liked Vidal and thought he had very insightful political views. He had a hell of a lot of famous visitors to his house in Ravello. It was featured in an arch digest spread decades ago. He and his partner sold it when his partner began having major medical issues. The house had a lot of stairs in the interior which was the real problem as I recall. They also had a penthouse in rome and their house in outpost estates in LA. He bought the house in Ravello after seeing an ad for it for sale in one of the glossy real estate magazines/catalogs that use to be published decades ago. He sold it for a hell of a profit and as I recall the house deteriorated for a while and I dont know the status now. Finally, he fit in well in Ravello and the tour boats use to pull up along side his cliff house with their loudspeakers saying this is the famous Vidal house...........he also bedded a hell of a lot of local Italian men who were usually somewhat heterosexual but occasionally switch hit if the price was right. According to Vidal it didnt take much $ to do the deed either. You cant say he didnt lead an interesting life

OMG!!! How tasteful...The bastard truly knew how to live, not like some pretentious US gays who think it will all fall on their lap with money. It doesn't work like that.

R92, no, could you recommend?

[quote]Stairs lead directly to village and so forth below the estate. GV (and others presumably) choose to use those stairs when going down into town for a morning paper, dinner, coffee, to the beach or shops.....

Total bullshit. The village of Ravello is ABOVE Vidal's villa. The stairs from the house go UP to village not "down into town"

How could Vidal afford to own an expensive home in Italy and LA? He hadn't been successful in many years. Those properties must have been extremely expensive to upkeep.

R100 He used peep holes and hidden cameras to take raunchy shots of his guests then hocked them to the highest bidder. A shot of Princess Margaret's tits was the hottest wank material of 1982 amongst the privileged set!

Princess Margaret never stayed in that dump. Esp as Vidal was a Jew.

What are you talking about R82, they're Jews.

Mr. Veedle, Mr. Veedle . . .

Went into a rabbit hole about him last night. The nephew who cared for him in old age and who he screwed out of his inheritance of the LA house at the end while he was a nasty alcoholic mess - Burr Steers - was the Zac Efron adult in 17 Again. He also produced Charlie St Cloud. Harvard got a lawyer who played really nasty with Gores sister and nephew to ensure every penny went to Harvard - to add their $40 billion endowment. Refused to give even $1 million to the nephew - to whom he had given the house in an earlier will before he sunk into drunken oblivion after Howard died.

The Ravello house seems like an impractical fantasy. Way too remote and difficult. He said he hired his daily trade in another village so they would be know as the pederasts of Ravello. It’s shocking the amount of quality trade that was available in Italy at the time. I don’t think there is an equivalent today. The unique culture of Italian sexuality before gay rights and visibility was made for Gore - he could pretend everyone was bisexual and separate sex from love and relationships.

I always thought the fact that he completely fell apart after Howard died and descended into an isolated alcoholic world of memory was the result of him never accepting that Howard was a husband and meant more to him that just a buddy. Not being able to acknowledge his gay love and appreciate his deep emotional connection to Howard while he was alive left him a mess when Howard died.

As far as the comments upthread about how depressed and bitter and sad he was, even with all that fame and money. And how the lot of the wealthy gay man was so difficult to bear.

Point taken... but wealthy uppercrust heterosexuals of his era, could be depressed and bitter and sad.

Vidal basically died from alcohol. He had what used to be called "wet brain."

Nice house, but I would be too worried about landslides to live there. I would much prefer one of the buildings on the top of that cliff.

He suffered from rheumatoid arthritis for decades, and it eventually crippled him. Pain, depression, and self-medication with alcohol often co-exist.

Gore Vidal? I didn't know that bitch.

r103 No, he was WASP and maybe somewhat Catholic; his partner was Jewish, but not him, just not true. R100 He had had a career of at least 50 years, written many novels and essays and memoirs, since he refused to write a lot of straight stuff he was more successful with his essays and interviews and historical writings, was an important member of the Golden Age of Television, had written part of the script for Ben Hur, wrote a couple of movie scripts, was a member of Camelot, albeit he may have made close to no money from it, had no children, albeit he was bisexual, had written and produced a musical about Billy the Kid, came from several successful and wealthy ancestors; e.g. his father had been an executive for three airlines for several years and been an entrepreneur later on, and had e.g. connections and reverence because of a successful career as an athlete in his younger years; so there was money in the family, of course more prestige and connections and a dynasty, for instance the father of his mother had been a long-term blind senator from Oklahoma and his mother married the father of Jackie Kennedy, and Vidal claimed himself to be related to many or several Presidents of the US. And he knew a lot of the haute couture of people.

He will have had many wealthy people stay in his house as guests, who will have returned him favors, stays in holiday homes, money, deals etc.; the house was pretty famous amongst many elite and cultural people. I know e.g. how Hillary Clinton made her mother very proud and joyful when she made it possible for both of them to visit it in the mid-90s, at the height of her unpopularity. He found her very nice, and described her as very contrasting in character and popularity to Jackie Kennedy.

Would love to find that "dirt file" William Buckley kept on Gore Vidal that was thrown away. There apparently was no love lost between the two men and WB gave as good as he got.

There really aren't people left like William Buckley or Gore Vidal in USA anymore is there? Love or hate him at least UK has Jacob Rees-Mogg...

What did the Kennedy's think of Gore Vidal? In particular wonder what the hyper macho JFK thought of Vidal personally and about his politics.

Gore Vidal seemed to relish getting up people's noses or otherwise pushing their buttons. You have to wonder why someone just didn't take a punch at him now and then.

He asshole was so blue that day.

JFK had no issues with Gore - despite Gore making suggestive remarks to and around him. JFK was very comfortable in his heterosexuality. JFK was even supportive to his former Harvard roommate who was gay.

Bobby however was a douche - which seems consistent with other behavior. He had Gore kicked out of the White House and permanently banned after he was “too friendly” with Jackie during an official party. Bobby in general seemed like a righteous prig - judgmental about others and convinced in his own morality and correctness.

The whole RFK story is vague even in Vidals telling. I’m guessing that he was drunk and he had thought he was closer to the Kennedys than he really was.

R111 a small but important correction - Vidal’s mother married the to-be stepfather of Jackie Kennedy. She would never have married Jackie’s father, who was a good looking but broke drunk.

R11, I don’t know if you were being facetious, but you do know that Citizen Kane was loosely based on the life of William Randolph Hearst, that Marion Davies was his mistress, and that Orson Welles included the Rosebud reference in the script as a slam to Hearst. Welles had heard through the grapevine that Hearst referred to certain of Davies’ private parts as her “rosebud.”

R119 You are referring to her clit, right? Don’t be squeamish!

I visited the house in the 1980s. I wasn't special enough to be invited to stay there. We stayed a lovely hotel (with amazing views) up the hill in Ravello.

I loved Ravello. It was so charming and quiet. We went to a concert where they played chamber music in a garden overlooking the sea.

I didn't really care for the interior of Vidal's home, but the views were amazing. He came across as a bit of a creep. He wanted my very handsome boyfriend to pee onto the tiles of the roof below -- so he could see his dick.

Oh, R120, I couldn’t possibly use those words. Rosebud is bad enough.

R119 In Vidal's response to the letter posted at R90, he explains that Marion Davies' nephew was the source of the Rosebud anecdote:

Marion Davies was an alcoholic who surrounded herself with other merry drinkers and though Hearst and his servants did their best to keep the palaces dry, vinous times were had by Marion and such intimates as her nephew and niece, Charlie and Pepi Lederer, and, for a time, Herman Mankiewicz. Charlie Lederer was a screen-writer, a wit, a sometime drug-taker. I met him in the Fifties through the writer George Axelrod, who was producing a play of mine called Visit to a Small Planet (1957). When Axelrod had trouble raising enough money to put the play on, Charlie went to Aunt Marion and got her to sign, in her cups, as it were, a check for ten thousand dollars. He was greatly relieved when she made her money back. The matter of Rosebud was much discussed at that time. After all, alcoholic ladies often discuss intimate matters with intimates

R92 Palimpsest is a good one.

"but wealthy uppercrust heterosexuals of his era, could be depressed and bitter and sad."

My heart does out...I'm crying as I type this.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE 1% HETEROSEXUALS!

R118

"Black" Jack Bouvier III was a rascal. So much promise wasted on booze and broads.

R121

Men relieving themselves onto the housetops below seems to be a common thing with Gore Vidal and male guests. Shouldn't wonder owners would get ticked off after awhile.

In this interview Gore Vidal states NYT declared "war" on him; just what exactly happened to provoke such a response from the Grey Lady? Or is the whole thing part of GV's persecution complex......

That generation had some truly unique gay men who contributed a lot to American culture - Gore Vidal, Tennessee Williams, James Baldwin, Andy Warhol, hell even Rock Hudson.

Today we have Andy Cohen. JFC.

R129 Bayard Ruskin, Edward Albee, Leonard Bernstein, William Buroughs et. al.

R125 I think the point was a response to "how could a gay Vidal have suffered so much with all that privilege..." and well, the human condition, as the Buddha said... everyone suffers.

^^ Rustin

R105

Read up on how Harvard copped the lot and how GV didn't even leave his devoted long time staff a thin dime. His manservant/butler/quasi nurse and much more had to leave America for Phillipines (his native country) because he couldn't afford to remain. He wasn't expecting anything from GV, but you'd think after twenty years of loyal service there would have been something.

Harvard wouldn't even give access much less turn over certain items that belonged to Howard Austin either apparently. Makes one wonder if things were reversed and GV pegged out first if he would have provided for HA at all.

Mr. Austen seemed like the nicer of the pair, would like to think he would have been more generous to Vidal's and his own family along with their friends and loyal staff had he survived GV.

Scotty Bowers pops up in all this; my god is there no famous or adjacent gay that some how at one point doesn't come into contact with S. Bowers?

"Scotty Bowers, Vidal's longtime friend, famous as a pimp for many Hollywood stars of the 1950s and '60s, says that Austen would go out cruising, pick up guys and share them with Vidal. "It wasn't just prostitutes but also young men who were available," he says."

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It's beautiful, but the idea of living on a cliff makes me kind of sick.

R112, Jacob Rees-Mogg? What?! You couldn't have said Christopher Hitchens or Andrew Marr. But compare Rees-Mogg to an intellectual heavyweight like Gore Vidal? You are so clueless

R113 prowess is shown in many ways. Gore Vidal's brains were such that I doubt straight and all JFK dared compare himself to Gore.

Jacob Rees-Mogg is an idiot with a thesaurus. He wouldn't be fit to lick the shit of Gore Vidal's shoes.

R147, it wasn’t the words, it was his greedy way with them.

r116 Bobby however was a douche - which seems consistent with other behavior. He had Gore kicked out of the White House and permanently banned after he was “too friendly” with Jackie during an official party. Bobby in general seemed like a righteous prig - judgmental about others and convinced in his own morality and correctness.

Actually Vidal was bounced out of the WH because of JFK's best cocksucking friend Lem Billings. A tipsy Vidal had had screaming match earlier that evening with Camelot's real Queen Miss Billings. Lem waited for Bobby Kennedy to show up and in true vicious queen tradition demanded Gore be escorted out. Of course JBK was above it all and pretended not to notice the cat fight. In the words of her lil sis Lee " They're just queers." Bobby and flaming Lem were lifelong pals.

R139 What was the fight about, I wonder.

Lem would be no match for Gore in a verbal throw down.

Sometimes certain elder gays on DL can get one down; but they are a veritable font of information, and for that attention should be paid.

Lem Billings was a "walker" for many Kennedy women, that alone often screamed "gay".

He probably threw twinks off there when they laughed at his micropeen.

R139

Thank you again for introducing Lem Billings into conversation; had no idea who he was but simply plugging his name into an internet search brings up page upon page. That he earned the constant scorn from the viper tongued Gore Vidal certainly is interesting. It seems Lem Billings had access to the Kennedy family GV could only dream about.

More dirt :

[quote]That he earned the constant scorn from the viper tongued Gore Vidal certainly is interesting. It seems Lem Billings had access to the Kennedy family GV could only dream about.

No doubt that was the reason for GV's bitterness. He was never the big insider he wanted to be in the Kennedy's circles. I also think he wanted JFK's cock something BAD, and that was another reason for his bitterness.

GV always had bigger ambitions than means and hoped that being a relative by marriage of sorts of Jackie's would be his ticket. It's like his pre-occupation with claiming to be related to everyone including Al Gore (an actual, if distant connection) and Jimmy carter (a more unlikely distant relative)---pathetic, all things considered but he needed to name drop the connection. All he and Jackie really had in common were horrible narcissistic mothers who married the same somewhat clueless multi-millionaire.

It must have not sat well with GV that the Kennedy clan got on so well with a gay man who wasn't family to point Lem Billings was virtually considered such; while he himself was merely adjacent if not kept at arms length.

Joe Kennedy's comment from above linked article "do we have to have that *&#* queer here every summer?" (referring to JFK bringing his roommate Lem Billings home) is right on the money for that period of time. You could substitute nearly any other minority (with associated derogatory name) to illicit same response.

GV had lifelong insecurity about not having a college degree. Explains a lot about his need to posture as a hyper intellectual. Changing his will to Harvard makes sense in that light - it was his greatest regret - not going to Harvard. Always seeking that approval.

Everyone in the Kennedy famiy knew Lem Billings was a flaming queen but he was JFK's "flaming quuen" so he was a defacto Kennedy. He practially lived in the WH had his own room. The Secret Service never even asked for his ID. He was known to them as ' JFK's other wife" As flaming queens are want to due Lemmer bragged about blowing JFK since they were 14 yo. Vidal perhaps a tad jealous and drunk called out Billings on this in front of the posh guests at this reception. A big unforgivable faux pas. It wasn't about Vidal putting his hand on Jackie's back. When Billings ran to Bobby with the tale of what happened Bobby went ballistic. If it had been reveled the his brother the president had a best friend that was queer it would have wrecked the presidency. Only a few years later LBJ's top aide Walter Jenkins was arrested for blowing guys in glory holes. This was serious stuff in 1962.

Jack be nimble. Had to be with this crowd.

This thread is like the gift that keeps on giving!

Thank you R149!

"JFK's other wife" Hahaha! Wonder what JBQ made of all this; not only did she have to put up with her husband's female dalliances, there was Lem Billings always in the background. Wonder who it was that filled her in and when on just exactly who and what Mr. Billings was.

3's a fuckin crowd!

Gore was a nasty bitch. I respect his achievements and his wit and his relative “out ness” - but let’s not ignore he was a mean, vindictive, snobbish, insecure pedophile who had no sense of charity or altruism. His final act of screwing those who still cared for him In his will - his nephew and sister - in favor of trying to gain some postmortem fame by finally being acknowledged by Harvard is sad and pathetic as a human being.

Look on JBK's face says it all. Notice she is the only adult not smiling!

On another note JBK was just all kinds of chic; that simple black turtleneck, no makeup except for a bit of lipstick and maybe powder, hair not really done... All so effortless but stylish.

R153 Bore.

" Mr Billings has been our house guest since our honeymoon"...JBK

It was like love at first sight for JFK and Lem Billings; Ted Kennedy said he was three years old before realizing that Lem Billings wasn't one of his brothers. That is how often the guy was around the Kennedy clan.

Vidal has always been on my shortlist of people I'd invite to my fantasy dinner party. And to say he was insecure about his intellect is nonsense. He wrote some of the best essays of the 20th century. His novels not so much, but they are never less than entertaining. And some are great, like JULIAN, MYRA, and LINCOLN. I do think he resented that he was given the kind of respect he deserved; his ego was massive. But I'll bet he was fun to know.

As for his bedroom habits, I knew dancer/actor Harold Lang pretty well in the 70s. When I asked him what Vidal was like in bed, he shrugged and said, "All he liked to do was bump bellies."

Funny how these guys who write so profoundly about sex are duds in bed.

Why on earth would I be jealous of that equine sodomite Billings when I had this?

OMG! Jackie is serving some Mrs. Patsy Ramsey realness in R152's pic.

JFK looks very chic in R152 -- and much younger than Lem.

I always thought "call me by your name" was about him

[quote]JFK looks very chic in [R152] -- and much younger than Lem.

Lem was an alcoholic, which was probably why he looked a lot rougher than JFK, even though they were more or less the same age.

So did Newman top V or vice versa?

V said he only bottomed once in his life (and it wasn't for Newman).

R166 Gore was an unreliable narrator for this own life.

who topped in the one night stand with kerouac in the chelsea hotel?

Vidal said he topped Kerouac. "I finally flipped him over on his stomach, not an easy job as he was much heavier than I."

^^ "I was what used to be called trade. I did nothing–deliberately, at least–to please the other." Vidal.

Well, no Gore, no.

In other words, he was selfish, which should be no surprise.

This is more Gore in Wonderland, airing his fantasy about himself.

Trade was a hot straight, completely uncultured and often physically dangerous. The kind of hirelings John Rechy talked about in City Of Night, or the guys posing for Athletic Model Guild.

Gore looks very Italian in that pic.

I found his memoir Palimpsest very sad. It seems that he spent his whole life pining over a straight boy who probably never gave him a moment's thought.

I have a friend who has done that. He is also, no coincidence, a huge Vidal fan. And found the memoir terribly romantic.

R173

Palimpset, and Vida's obsession with James Trimble, forever young and dead, was sad, pathetic, romantic, heroic, warped... well, very human.

Interesting guy - but a sad, pathetic man. The nastiness of his mother scarred him forever.

Vidal shilled his myth that the one true love of his life was a 16 yo schoolmate Jimmy that he jacked off with ONCE. The kid died in the war. Vidal spun this into the his life long grand passion. In his remaining 60 years he could never "love" again.. sob. Mawkish rubbish. Vidal was many things but Queen Victoria he ain't. Oy!

I love that Howard Austen used to roll his eyes whenever Vidal traipsed out the Jimmie Trimble story. Howard knew how much of Gores stories were BS and performance art/self-delusion.

Jimmy Trimble died in WWII. He was 20 yo. He was a "golden boy" star athlete. None of his pals on the St. Albans baseball team ever recall seeing him with Vidal. No one at the school remembers these "lovers" being seen together. Trimble wrote many letters to his fiance Christine White,his mother , his best friend Earle Elliot. He wrote of his love of baseball,his love of his fiance,and his love of killing "japs". Vidal "his great love" got not a letter or even a mention. When Trimble's friends were interviewed for Vidal bio's they gave a blank stare and a WHO DAT? when Vidal was brought up. Apparently Vidal and Trimble were never in the same room together. Except for the bathroom stall of Vidal's imagination.

Vidal was a brilliant, pretentious ,narcissistic ,bitch. Like his mother. He could never romantically love anyone. So he subsisted on paid underage Italian ragazzi. Much like his hero Wilde and his Bosie, Vidal and Jimmy are a writers conceit.

[quote]Interesting guy - but a sad, pathetic man. The nastiness of his mother scarred him forever.

Absolutely. His mother was an ice-cold alcoholic nightmare. She royally fucked him up.

Despite Vidal superciliously dismissing his 40 year relationship with Howard Austen as a just a "room mate situation" after Austen died Vidal spiraled into a alcoholic depression. Sitting in a chair unbathed in his own shit calling for Howard. Like many long term partnerships to outsiders they seemed a miss matched pair. Constantly bickering and tearing at each other in an antagonistic co-dependent pas de deux. When one of the partners dies the remaining one is not long for this world. If the last name on your lips is Howard then he was your partner and your lover. M'thinks Lady Gore protested too much.