Gays, tell me about "Hello, Dolly!"

Carol Channing IS Dolly Levi!

Nit.

Witless.

Babs was too young for the movie and Mae West called her out on doing imitations of her in the film.

Doris Day was offered the film role of Hello Dolly but her manager/husband turned it down. Streisand was becoming a big star at the time and she could sing so they gave the role to her, for better or for worse.

I thought I'd like it when I caught the Bette Midler revival. I'd seen the 90s Carol Channing revival when I was in middle school and remembered enjoying it.

But, LORD, the mothballs. Still, lots of pretty melodies from ol Jerry.

Lucy was going to do it, but Gary talked her out of it.

Saw it twice with Betty Buckley , great Roadshow. It's a fabulous role for an ol' broad actress . RE: CHANNING , MERMAN , GINGER ROGERS , MIDLER . Streisand was too young , but was FABULOUS , nonetheless .

I recently listened to the Pearl Bailey "Dolly" and liked it a lot, her singing was very smooth and mellow.

Dolly didn't come from Harlem.

Do they include the movie songs in the play now- like they do with Grease?

Dolly is Channing's all the way.

Barbra was completely miscast. And the movie overdoes it on the over the top mugging, wholesome kitsch. When Julie Andrews is doing more risque musicals than you during the same period, then you know you have a problem.

R10 Lol. Agreed. I was dragged kicking & screaming to see Carol do it in the 90’s. I ended up loving her. R4 yes! The Bette version was moldy - she was great but the show was what you wrote- mothballs. Went with my sister to the Bette version - we had a fun night. She brings it up a lot & surprised me with tickets to the pending Music Man revival. I fear we’ll be going to all these oldie revivals and I really don’t want to.

Bette's Dolly floats on Bette's persona.

I saw Ginger Rogers in the national tour as a babygay with my parents in the 60's.

My mom said the past 25 or so years hadn't been kind to Roxie Hart.

Having seen a lot of stage versions, and at least have listened to the album versions of the shows I didn't see, I can say I MUCH prefer the movie with Barbra. Her voice is incredible and her interpretation brings so much depth and humor to the score. She's also a great comedian with perfect timing for Dolly. And who cares if she was too young. She carried herself with a confidence and sophistication that makes her seem more mature and in control, perfect for the character. Besides, her youth adds extra energy that the role (and movie) really needs. The rest of the cast is also terrific. The film was lavishly produced, shot on sparkling large format film, with beautiful sets, costumes and locations. The dance numbers are amazing and despite it's length, the film entertains. Carol Channing, while a stage legend, quite frankly deserved to stay on the stage. Her singing sounds like a frog gargling broken glass, and her acting was always cartoonish. She might have made the stage version fun, but on film she would have been nails on a chalkboard.

Carol Channing was always a female, female impersonator.

Everytime I see "Hello, Dolly" on TV, I can't help but think of the poor guy who had a supporting role (brain fart, can't remember his name) who was murdered by a trick he picked-up a few years later. I believe he appeared on "The Gong Show" the day he was murdered, and won for a VERY energetic act he did with a fat female partner.

Is there any consensus about which stage Dollys were great, good or poor?

Barbra is adorable in this. I love the part where she's lifting her ankles and says "Good Lord, the room is crawling with men. Irene, darling, congratulations!".

I was also superimpressed by Babs' dancing. It was graceful, effortless and perfectly attuned to the music, never an awkward step or transition.

If anyone was miscast in this it was Walter Mathau. His singing and dancing are pathetic.

Judy Knaix as Ernestina Simple was hysterical. "You can tell her I was sick to my stomach. It's really quite true, you know. Good night."

r14=Gene Kelly's widow

I actually agree with R14, well said. The movie and her performance are unfairly maligned. She always seemed mature enough to me.

It's Carol Channing role I saw it with CC when I was a baby gay and I still remember her in that role 60 years later. Bette did a good job with the role too.

This thread inspired me to get the movie DVD from the library today, I want to revisit.

Was just thinking, I'd always heard the big complaint was that Barbra was too young for the role. But look at it this way, her casting works from the standpoint of her being a young woman married to an old rich guy who died. But she IS too young, too young to be a widow. Yet she needs to remarry another man of means, and alas that's Walter Matthau. Would have been nice if Horace Vandergelder could have been older, yes, but a bit more attractive.

I enjoy Marilyn Maye's renditions.

Barbra was too young when she played the part, but Time Heals Everything. That movie is pure delight, and no one cares if she was too young. P.S. If she was too young, she wasn't miscast in any other way. She was actually perfect for it.

Even Jerry Herman himself said he liked that movie (after 30 years).

I saw "Dolly" as a kid with Dorothy Lamour on tour, with Carol in one of her umpteen productions on the road, and much more recently with Bette (side Orchestra, Row K, good seat, $209 total), Donna Murphy (mid orchestra, Row E, TKTS, $90) and Bernadette Peters (front row, TDF, $47). Bernadette looked down at my friend and I who were grinning like Cheshire cats, obviously pleased that the gays were paying full attention. The revival is superb. If Carolee Carmello (now wrapping up the tour) were to bring it back to NY for a limited run, I'd see it again, but I doubt it would sell as well. Older friends saw it with Betty Grable, Ann Miller (stock) and Molly Picon (stock) in the 1960's and 70's.

Barbra comes off as very mature in the part, not old, but older than her 27 years of age. She appears to be in her mid 30's so she is age appropriate. The original Dolly (non-musical) might surprise those who didn't know this.

Later on, Ruth and Barbra worked together....Well, sort of.....

I've always thought the show has a really stupid book.

"Oh, we're going have a dance contest to solve all our problems and then I'm going to marry an awful man I don't even like -- so everything will be great!"

I loved the movie growing up. Babs is doing her normal comedy schtick and is a hoot. She sings the hell out of the songs.

It was only watching while older that I realized she's way too young for the role--but who cares! She's great in it.

I don't think that the Mary Martin cast album has been released on CD, but they jazzed up the overture a bit and it sounds great.

Barbra is pretty funny -- with a very weak lines.

And I don't think she ever sung songs with more otherworldly abilities --before or since.

But she almost sang too well. I kept thinking, "What does woman who can sing like this see in dull, annoying, stupid Walter Matthau?"

Because I never bought her wanting to be with someone like Walter Matthau.

And if it was only because he was a half-a-millionaire, that just made her whore. Hardly a feel-good story.

Barbra is fine. What's not fine is Gene Kelly's direction. Every dance number goes on twice as long as it should. The movie runs two and a half hours, when two would have been plenty.

[quote]I was dragged kicking & screaming to see Carol do it in the 90’s. I ended up loving her. [R4] yes! The Bette version was moldy - she was great but the show was what you wrote- mothballs. Went with my sister to the Bette version - we had a fun night. She brings it up a lot & surprised me with tickets to the pending Music Man revival. I fear we’ll be going to all these oldie revivals and I really don’t want to.

I expect that no one will mind, or care, if you just stay home. Feel free to do so. Oh, and your "mothballs" comment is very ignorant.

[quote]I've always thought the show has a really stupid book. "Oh, we're going have a dance contest to solve all our problems and then I'm going to marry an awful man I don't even like -- so everything will be great!"

The stupidity lies within you. The musical is based on a farce, with all that entails in terms of tone, style, and so on. And it's not true that Dolly doesn't like Horace. If you believe that's so, you must be really obtuse.

[quote]I don't think that the Mary Martin cast album has been released on CD, but they jazzed up the overture a bit and it sounds great.

It was released on CD, albeit very briefly, in a limited edition. You can find a copy on Amazon, but you'll have to pay a lot for it. And there was no "overture" to HELLO, DOLLY! in the original production, that version of the title song that's used as the "overture" on the original Broadway cast album and the Martin recording was recorded just for those albums.

My parents had the movie soundtrack album when I was a kid. I used to love to stare at the cover with that fabulous illustration of Barbra with the big hat and the psychedelic flowers pouring out of it. If only Matthau wasn’t in the picture it would make a fun Babs poster.

Channing was crushed when she learned the role wasn't hers and wasn't ever gonna be hers. Producer Ernest Lehman and other studio execs thought after seeing her rushes from 'Thoroughly Modern Millie' that no one would be able to stand that mugging puss for 2+ hours. All that mugging and really, not that much musical ability.

This went on for months. She supposedly sent yellow roses to Streisand as part of her 'poor me' publicity campaign (which backfired) and then even at the last minute took Gene Kelly out for lunch and BEGGED for the role. He said it was out of his hands -- which it was -- and the rest is history.

Of course Streisand is too young for the part, but and mugs in some scenes as well, but her vocals make up for that in spades. The film didn't do too well at the time, but would've flopped for sure with ol' Bug-Eyes in the role.

Channing just came off an Oscar nominated role in Thoroughly Modern Millie which was one of the biggest films of the year. It's doubtful that she would have sunk the movie.

Barbra playing Southern is like Julie Andrews playing a Jersey housewife. Who cares if she could sing the score? She hasn't been able to sing that way in almost forty years.

Times Square had less mugging in the 70s and 80s.

Times Square had less mugging in the 70s and 80s.

R36, Dolly Levi is not Southern. Now, Ann Sothern would have been a wonderful Dolly.

“It Takes A Woman” is a funny song. The whole score is just fantastic.

While it has a good score, it remains one of the stupidest Broadway shows ever created.

Mary Martin's London cast album is terrific. She completely inhabited that role. I wish I had seen her do it on stage.

My favorite Dolly that I've seen on stage was Ann Miller. She was hysterical. Plus, she pulled off her skirt and tap danced "So Long, Dearie." Perfection.

The problem with the movie is not Barbra. Gene Kelly's direction is leaden. Michael Kidd's choreography is awful. Every move Gower Champion staged on Broadway was better than what Kelly and Kids did for the movie. Barbra did a pretty good job at cutting through that, despite not being well suited to the role.

I saw both. the. Bette and Bernadette retreads. Bernadette was a far more nuanced Dolly. than Bette, who herself turned in a. decent performance, if hammier.

Didn't Barbra call Billy Wilder from the set and say, "Help! I'm being directed by a tap dancer!"?

I saw Pearl Bailey, and she fit the role like a classy glove. Certainly the right age, and with a great sense of humor. And she sure could sing. She also had a near perfect Horace in Cab Calloway, who was just as savvy as she was, and they seemed to be having a lot of fun. (And what other productions are notable for the actors playing Horace?)

The whole show seemed to be everyone having fun. I remember hearing some doubts expressed about going with an all-black cast, but it worked beautifully. I never saw anyone else doing it. After that, I didn’t want to.

Pearl Bailey came back to Broadway as Dolly in 1975 with a mixed race cast.

I saw Carol Channing (1964, 1978, and 1995), Mary Martin, Pearl Bailey, Ethel Merman, Yvonne DeCarlo, Patrice Munsel, Molly Picon, Bette Midler, Donna Murphy, and Bernadette Peters as Dolly on stage.  I may be forgetting some.  And Barbra Streisand in the film.

R46 I have only seen Channing, Bailey, and Midler. I'd love to hear more about The Merm

Don't forget DL favorite Tovah who did it at Papermill with an Irish accent. Thankfully, she didn't flash anyone her underwear this time.

[quote]and then I'm going to marry an awful man I don't even like.

Bless your retarded, little heart.

r49, the book *was* stupid. Especially ridiculous was the part where Irene Molloy tells Cornelius she can get him his job back if she marries Horace (as if Horace would even consider still marrying her after catching her stepping out on him with his employee, and even if he would consider it, he certainly wouldn't give Cornelius his job back knowing that he would be screwing Irene in the cellar among the cans of chicken hash).

I don’t recall Channing trying to sabotage the film version of [italic] Gentleman Prefer Blondes [/italic]. when Darryl F. Zanuck passed her over for Marilyn Monroe. That movie barely resembles its source material.

When Pearl Bailey did "Dolly", she told Jerry Herman that God was on stage with her. Without missing a beat, Jerry asked, "Did he know the lyrics?"

The only Broadway "Dolly" he didn't like was Martha Raye who was angry that he never came to see her, even though he had been sick during her brief run and couldn't make it to New York. His autobiography "Showtune" has all sorts of great anecdotes on the background of "Dolly" on stage, and "The Abominable Showman" about David Merrick has some even better ones!

Then there are the various autobiographies by the stars or other biographies. There could be a "Feud" like mini-series about the show's history.

Yet, the NY Times gave Martha Raye a great review. There is audio of her in the role on YouTube. Give a listen. She's great.

So fuck Jerry Herman. He didn't like her in a performance he didn't see? No. Just no.

Keep Ryan Murphy and Disney as far away from this as possible.

This is precisely why Carol "Did I Have Corn" Channing was not cast in the movie version. She sings a song from the show at 8:30 minutes into this clip.

Just imagine listening to that grating voice on the big screen for over two hours.

Dody Goodman would have made an interesting Dolly.

How about Dinah?

Did the Harmonica Gardens have a once around The garden salad bar ?

Why didn't you tell me to bring along my harmonia?

It was an "Autumn Harvest" R58

The Harmonica Gardens? Is that where Stevie Wonder got started?

I've been reading these threads for a couple years now. Even though this is an anonymous forum, I've still been too embarrassed to ask this question but I will now. What is the story behind Carol Channing and corn? I see the reference all the time, but it must be some legendary story that I somehow missed.

Thank you to anyone who can explain it to me.

I think Dody would have been a Dolly in the tradition of Shirley Booth in "The Matchmaker".

Streisand is a grotesque "talent?" in every way. Who the fuck wants to watch that thing 'sing' for two hours? Very, very, very old white gays.

I got to see Eve Arden do it. My dad took us (brother) to see it when we were visiting him in Chicago. It was in 1966, I was 11. I knew who she was though and very much enjoyed the show.

Who do you think is the weirdest choice for the role?

R26

Ruth Gordon was married to Garson Kanin who directed Funny Girl on Broadway. After watching the early rehearsals she said about young Barbra: "She´s great but she´s not good yet"

Unfortunatly Barbra never felt she got the help she needed from Kanin to become good,so she made producer Ray Stark hire her acting teacher Allan Miller. They worked behind Kanins back on her part.There is a lengthy interview with Mr.Miller in one of the Babs bios,where he speaks in great detail about the process.

R56, Dody Goodman did play Dolly in THE MATCHMAKER.

When was that?

R62 Whilst performing as Dolly Levi, Miss Channing needed a potty break at intermission, just as many theatergoers do. The audience, though, isn't miked so when they go, it's quieter.

Dolly Levi did her business backstage and then the theater was filled with the sound of a flushing toilet and Channing's inimitable voice saying "Corn? When did I eat corn?"

Not to be confused at all - please, Dear God - with the endless variations on a corn theme in the film "The Aristocrats."

And Googling the phrase, "Corn? When did I eat corn?" will bring up 414,000,000 results in 0.54 seconds, the first five of which are about this exact subject. Entering "Corn Carol Channing" gets the same results.

Surely the corn came before the flush...

That's true, R70. In the theater, timing is everything.

r32 the dance numbers may run long but they are also great to watch. Kelly's directing, his staging and how the camera moves with the dancers gives the viewer a feeling they are dancing too. It's a bit thrilling to watch.

It's something I miss in how musicals are filmed now. The directors do not seem to know how to stage or film the action to draw the audience into it, so it's not compelling at all. Looks like soldiers doing exercises. IMO the camera needs to move in the right way to enhance the choreography with some of the flow occurring in the edit. None of the musicals I've seen since Chicago came out have great dance sequences. They are actually pretty shitty.

Oh, dear God, "The Aristocrats." I don't think I've ever laughed so hard. I had to leave the room. It is so SO wrong.

Anyway, I'd never seen a professional production of Dolly, only a community theater one (have to say, the Dolly was good, though). So I went to see the recent tour when it came to SF. Alas, no Bette Midler, just Betty Buckley who is not particularly funny and her voice is largely shot. Still, it was a gorgeous production, slickly directed with one of the handsomest ensembles I've seen in a long time, so I'm glad I saw it. And, yes, it's a dumb story, but it's a romantic farce based on a Viennese play from the 1840s. If you ever get a chance to see Tom Stoppard's update of it called On The Razzle definitely go. It's a treat.

I'm amazed at the list of actresses who have played Dolly. As much as I like Eve Arden, she could be pretty arch. Was she able to soften for the more tender scenes? Did Yvonne DeCarlo do her sultry/cleavage-y best? Molly Picon??? Yenta from "Fiddler....."? Can't wrap my brain around that. Was she very much in the vein of Shirley Booth? Dinah would've been interesting to see, since she definitely had the singing ability.

If the film was being made for the first time today, who would they choose?

R62, continuing R68's post:

Channing developed a lot of food allergies earlier in her life. So she brought her own food everywhere -- even when going out to restaurants. That's why she was shocked when she saw corn in her shit. Can you imagine hearing that gravely voice spitting out those words...CORN, WHEN DID IIIII EEAAAT CORRRRN?

[Quote] If the film was being made for the first time today, who would they choose?

Olivia Colman.

[quote]The book *was* stupid. Especially ridiculous was the part where Irene Molloy tells Cornelius she can get him his job back if she marries Horace (as if Horace would even consider still marrying her after catching her stepping out on him with his employee, and even if he would consider it, he certainly wouldn't give Cornelius his job back knowing that he would be screwing Irene in the cellar among the cans of chicken hash).

I vaguely recall that there's a weird line to that effect in the movie of HELLO, DOLLY!, but it is NOT in the show.

R44 William Wyler, not Billy Wilder.

R43 I completely agree about Bernadette vs. Bette in this last revival, although both were great. Also Victor Garber was a surprisingly funnier and more delightful Horace than DH Pierce (who was fine, if trying a little hard.) And for those who don't get it -- It's a wonderful show with a great score and a perfectly structured and funny book. Sort of the epitome of the well made musical comedy.

Seeing that picture of Pearl Bailey made me think that Queen Latifah would make a great Dolly, and she's the right age for it now. She'd be awesome.

Paper Mill tried to get Latifah. She wasn't interested. Apparently, she was a little offended ("Hey! You look like Pearl Bailey! You should play Dolly, too!").

I wanted Megan Mulally (NOT in Karen Walker mode) and Nick Offerman to do the tour, instead of Betty Buckley (although her Horace, Lewis J. Stadlen, was excellent). No idea if Offerman can sing, but Horace only has two songs, and he could Rex Harrison his way through them.

Yeah, Matthau couldn't really sing either, and he did fine as Horace.

A friend who made it his life's work to see productions of Dolly! felt that Eve Arden was the best he had seen.

There is an audio bootleg of Merman's performance out there and it's great fun. She also gets huge ovations for the two songs that were written for her but never used in the original.

For those who didn't see Channing in the original, there's no way to describe how great she was.

Hello, Dolly! is a great, great show, a farce with real emotional underpinnings, and an extraordinary tuneful score. It's a bit of a comic diatribe against the patriarchy, and the ways women had to survive life in the 1880s. Note that both Dolly and Mrs. Molloy have businesses, which don't thrive on the kindness of men. The great Thornton Wilder gave life to those characters, and they will outlive us all. At Bette's revival, I started to cry when the chorus stepped in for "Put On Your Sunday Clothes" and I did not stop crying until the final curtain — it was nigh-on perfect.

r85, what can we say, but: Mary!

It's got some great catchy songs in it (also a few disasters, like "Ribbons down my Back" and "I'm Dancing"), but the book is grotesquely corny and cutesy-poo (even at the time of the original production, did anyone ever laugh or even smile at the phrase "the celebrated half-a-millionaire"?). The movie pulls this out even further by the casting (I am fine with Barbra--it's everyone else except Louis Armstrong who are the problems), because everyone projects much too big and exaggerates their paper-thin parts. And plus it's interminably long--they made it so it could be a road show, and those movies were just always too long and overstuffed.

[Quote] what can we say

Corny!

Who's the best matinee Dolly?

I agree that many of the numbers go on too long, but the super-long title song sequence is an exception. It milks every drop of razmatazz it can, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

"Ribbons Down My Back" is the best song in the show. That and "It Only Takes a Moment."

Everything else sounds like it was written by John Philip Sousa.

[quote]among the cans of chicken hash

Chicken MASH, you moron.

[quote]"the celebrated half-a-millionaire"?

WELL-KNOWN, UNMARRIED half-a-millionaire, you 'tard.

[quote]At Bette's revival, I started to cry when the chorus stepped in for "Put On Your Sunday Clothes" and I did not stop crying until the final curtain — it was nigh-on perfect.

MARY!

You need to be on lithium.

I'm on lithium, otherwise known as stage musicals, as joyous an artform as has ever existed.

i guess there is some kind of satisfaction or perceived superiority that comes from calling other people "Mary," but seriously, this is a gay website and the Marys already know that they are Marys. it's not anything to be ashamed of.

RuPaul himself loves musicals.

I'm on LaTooda.

Didn't RuPaul "sing" at that Actors Fund concert of "HAIR" but he was bombed and they had to replace him for the recording?

Does anyone still produce "The Matchmaker?" Community theaters or schools?

I was in The Matchmaker in high school, so, yes.

Lady Gaga?

[quote] i guess there is some kind of satisfaction or perceived superiority that comes from calling other people "Mary," but seriously, this is a gay website and the Marys already know that they are Marys. it's not anything to be ashamed of. —Proud Mary

You're clearly a newbie tio Datalounge if you think that.

"Mary!" here is a delighted and proud cry of recognition. We are of course all Marys, and we are proud to recognize one another in our full Mary!ness.

So chill out, Mary!

"Mary!" is to Boomer gays what "Slay!" or "gurrrl..." is for Generation Zers.

R94, time to pick up those batteries for your hearing aid.

R81 We don't need a brawny lesbian Dolly.

BBrawny?!

Okay, so I am a millennial and not quite an eldergay but definitely this thread has me in earrings and caftan mode.

Back on Halloween night 1995 I decided to have a very gay All Hallow's Eve and decided to snag a TKTS ticket to see Carol Channing in "Hello Dolly!" at the Lunt-Fontanne Theater. Beforehand I took in the strip show at the old Gaiety Theater where my favorite dancer Skylar (real name Josh and a model/kept boy for designer Wolfgang Joop) was dancing that night. It was a touring production that traveled the country twice over between 1994 to 1997 and did a Broadway stop from October 1995 to January 1996 when Carol got ill and it closed early. Miss Channing got excellent reviews in the New York Times which did feel that the touring production by Lee Roy Reams was a tired, cut down retread of the Gower Champion original. Miss Channing was still considered a definitive Dolly.

I had never gotten what Carol Channing was about and even though she was far from her prime, she moved incredibly well, had incredible physical agility and timing and you couldn't take your eyes off of her. Her original red wig was now an unnatural raspberry pink color and her singing voice juddered and sputtered like a rusty carburetor that was about to drop off and hit the highway. Her rhythm and phrasing were very improvisational and the conductor (the original one was fired on the tour) was working moment by moment to keep Channing and the orchestra on the same page if not in the same time zone. The rest of the company looked like it had been aged up a bit for this septuagenarian matchmaker - Florence Lacey as Irene Malloy (she had done the role in the 1978 Channing revival) was a decidedly matronly milliner and the Cornelius looked like he was well past 35. The Horace was Jay Garner who had a strong presence and voice and blustered and bellowed like a pro.

But I got what Carol Channing was about: she had been compared to a silent movie clown and this was correct. Like a Chaplin or Buster Keaton she had a stylized, consistent and cartoonish clown persona - the dizzy saucer-eyed blonde - that was a vehicle for over the top physical comedy and vaudeville business. She seemed to inhabit a different universe than the other actors - I truly believed when she was waltzing around to "Dancing" in Irene Malloy's shop that Channing could dance up the walls and onto the ceiling. During her long monologue to Horace in the Harmonia Gardens scene Channing had an extended bit of business where she did a mile a minute long speech while stuffing her mouth full of potato puffs. Well the potato puffs were actually colored pieces of wrapped tissues which she would ball up and shove into her cheeks all the while not missing a line or a laugh. It was wild and unbelievable and you didn't know how she could eat all that food while talking nonstop. That anarchic presence disguised with a kind of arch innocence really worked for Dolly Levi - you got a sense that Dolly/Carol was warping reality and nothing went normally around her.

You were old enough to go to a strip show in 1995? Wouldn't that mean you were born around the mid 1970s?

I am Generation X born in the mid-sixties. I was 29 when I saw the Gaiety strippers and Carol Channing that fateful October 31st.

I also saw Donna Murphy, Bernadette Peters and Bette Midler in the 2017-2018 Jerry Zaks revival. Donna Murphy in many ways was the best of the three - she had her own take that Dolly was a clever con woman who had a grander mission behind her tricks. I saw Donna Murphy interviewed on a Theater Chat type show on PBS. Basically she had trained herself as a singer by imitating Streisand records and had always had a voice without taking lessons. But all her actual theater training was as a dramatic actress at Stella Adler's classes. So she works at a musical theater character as a method actress would. So she found a dramatic arc for the character and really played with and off of the other actors creating a situation and relationships. Murphy was the youngest of that group of Dollys (late fifties) and still had a working belt voice and high range, so she was the best sung Dolly by far. The other actors like Hyde Pierce were better with Donna because she bounced her lines off of them as part of the scene rather than playing to the crowd or playing a "Bette" persona.

Bernadette in a way was the most classic and closest to Channing - she was a mischievous calculating Kewpie doll who was part brass and part twinkle. She was also very funny and reduced Victor Garber to giggles in the eating scene in Act II. Bernadette Peters was not vocally strong and had to kind of sing under and around a lot of the vocally demanding and high parts of the score but she knew what she was doing and sold the songs anyway and got away with it.

I saw Bette Midler on a good night when she wasn't walking through parts of the show. It was her summer of 2018 return to close the show and she was relaxed, rested and focused. Also that night Hillary Clinton was attending the show and no way in hell was Bette phoning that show in. The audience were as (if not more) excited about the return of Hillary as the Harmonia Gardens waiters were excited by the return of Dolly Levi. Midler gave a warm, funny and characteristic performance bending the character of Dolly to her persona. It was a good fit though not perfect like it was with Channing. She also had to "manage" a lot of the singing with lowering sections and talking parts of the songs but again she was a pro and it worked.

The Michael Stewart book doesn't establish what Dolly actually is planning to get Horace away from Irene and make him her husband. Also how the dancing contest would convince Horace that Ambrose Kemper is a suitable husband for Ermengarde is a harebrained idea as if Horace would be impressed by that. Also, everything that Dolly does in Act II is designed to alienate Horace, cheat him out of his money and she is very dismissive of him almost abusive throughout.

The movie screenplay by Ernest Lehman makes some smart improvements. First of all in the stage show, Barnaby and Cornelius meet Irene and Minnie in New York totally by happenstance and random coincidence. In the movie, Barbra as Dolly convinces Cornelius to go to New York and look up a certain lovely milliner friend of hers and gives them the card for Mrs. Malloy's hat shop. That makes more sense and suggests that Dolly has a scheme going that isn't just confusing everyone and running around. Also, this is basically a fast-moving farce - Gene Kelly's leaden, overproduction moves very slowly in the way of post-"Sound of Music" road show widescreen musical spectaculars and is leaden and overloaded. You have too much time to see through the holes in the farcical plot. I think both Barbra and Walter Matthau lack charm and Michael Crawford is embarrassing and mannered as Cornelius Hackl. The Ernestina Judy Knaiz is unwatchable and DL fave Jo Anne Worley supposedly auditioned for the movie (she has done the title role in stock). Barbra has her acting moments and sings the shit out of the score including two new numbers written for the film. But it could have been better.

[quote]"Mary!" is to Boomer gays what "Slay!" or "gurrrl..." is for Generation Zers.

No, it is not. Miss Thang.

[quote]The Michael Stewart book doesn't establish what Dolly actually is planning to get Horace away from Irene and make him her husband. Also how the dancing contest would convince Horace that Ambrose Kemper is a suitable husband for Ermengarde is a harebrained idea as if Horace would be impressed by that.

Dolly gets Ambrose and Ermengarde to enter the polka contest not so that Horace will be impressed by their dancing. Of course, he wouldn't care about that. She does it so that they will win the prize for the contest, which is a solid gold cup, and then they can pawn that so they'll have money to start their married life if Horace cuts off Ermengarde like he says he's going to do if she marries Ambrose.

You're welcome.

Mary! is a mild slapdown. It's not some attack on effeminacy. Remember Emory in "Boys in the Band"?

I'd rather watch the movie of this than suffer through anything Julie Andrews is in.

[quote] where my favorite dancer Skylar

And that's exactly where I stopped reading that interminable post.

[quote]Okay, so I am a millennial and not quite an eldergay but definitely this thread has me in earrings and caftan mode.

Trust, you're elder. Your posts must have entertained you, but you're a tedious bore. Thanks for sharing millennial friend.... born in 1945. Barely OK, Boomer.

"Mary!" is more akin to a wink than a slap across the face.

R107 Hello Lesbo!

Rachel Dratch would make a great Dolly.

I once , had a trick who asked to be rimmed. He rolled on his stomach and farted. Corn niblets shot out his ass.

If I had a magic wand, I'd go back in time and cast Marie Dressler or Charlotte Greenwood as Dolly.

This proud Mary rolled down the river and up to the front row to see "Dolly" for the third time at the Shubert w/Bernadette Peters, and she was delightful, never phoning it in, and always giving her best, acknowledging us in the first row with smiles and winks, and having as much fun as she knew the audience was having. Kate Baldwin was the only consistent performer whom I saw all three times, and even with a mediocre song like "Ribbons Down My Back", she made it heartfelt. Having seen her in "Giant" at the Public and "Finian's Rainbow" and "Big Fish" on Broadway, I find her to be deserving of much bigger success. (Her singing of "I Don't Need a Roof" in "Big Fish" is a sweet love song to a zany husband, as well as her reaction to his singing of the beautiful "Daffodils" that ends act one in that short-lived show that deserved a bit better.)

Charlie Stemp, who became a hit over in London with the revival of "Half a Sixpence", stood out in the supporting cast, even more boyish and charming than his predecessor as Barnaby. In "Dancin'", another chorus boy had done the big twirling bit, but it was re-assigned to Charlie who won over the audience, getting a huge round of applause for his agility. He's like a modern version of Ray Bolger and Joel Grey and I hope he does Broadway again, hopefully "Half a Sixpence" which had some British TV performances that are quite energetic. Carolee Carmello is wrapping up the tour this month, and I'd love to see her do a brief Broadway return in this very dull, uneventful season where there is very little I care to see. Looking forward to Kate Baldwin in "Love Life" in two weeks at City Center, however!

Rona, thanks for your well thought out reviews of the many versions and revivals of the show. Much appreciated.

What I don't understand though, is how someone like Channing -- or even Midler or Peters -- can get out there and perform, when they KNOW their voices are clearly past their prime. Yeah, Peters was born in a trunk, performing since age 5 or so, so no doubt on some level she equates applause and attention with love.

But Channing...I mean her voice is horrific in clips from the seventies(!), and yet she and other fossils like Chita Rivera would show up at tributes for anyone, only to open their mouths and let out these cringe inducing vocals that are just SO painful to hear. At least Liza stopped five or so years ago (although 20 years would've been better).

WHYYYYY?

What else do they have, R123? In most cases, they gave up everything else for their careers.

I just saw the tour of Dolly in Philly last Friday. I saw it on Broadway with Bette Midler, who just exuded star quality and brilliant comic timing. Carolee was wonderful, but she just didn't have that star quality or wattage that Bette had. I tried to go in and not think about Bette, but I realized that all the comic bits of Dolly are tailored towards a natural comedian.

Still loved it. This revival was truly monumental, although, yah, the show is very, very old fashioned. In a great way.

R125 Carolee can really connect with her audiences in ways that the superstars do. I saw her in "Sister Act" on Broadway from the front row, playing the Maggie Smith character, having replaced Victoria Clark. Carolee did something very "Maggie Smith" like, and I howled. She was standing right over me and gave me a smirk in character but it was obvious that she enjoyed my reaction. Someone posted either on DL or on Broadway World that he had front row seats for the "Dolly" tour and she did pretty much the same thing with him. Later, he went to the stage door, and she came up to him to indicate that she recognized him. Carolee is like Marin Mazzie, Rebecca Luker, Kate Baldwin, Kelli O'Hara, Beth Leavel, Karen Ziemba and Debra Monk in the fact that she can hold an audience in her palm, but is so stage oriented that she wouldn't gain the attention of TV or movie producers for a major part, unlike Bette or Bernadette or Glenn who command a bit more attention than the ladies I mention above would push for.

As time has passed the movie seems better and better and Streisand is a fire engine vocally and as the character. The movie is funny 50 years later. Who cares that she is too young- you wouldn't know if it was not originally written and performed for and by a middle aged woman. Besides- the whole story and concept of the film is a confection- a fantasy world of turn of the century NYC. And that voice- still to go on to greater heights over the years but cannot imagine that score being sung any better. I think the most awesome vocalizing by Streisand in a film is easily the title song to Clear Day. She literally soars through the melody.

On a Clear Day is not a difficult song to sing. Barbra is overrated on every occasion.

[Quote] she can hold an audience in her palm, but is so stage oriented that she wouldn't gain the attention of TV or movie producers for a major part, unlike Bette or Bernadette or Glenn who command a bit more attention than the ladies I mention above would push for.

What nonsense is this? If she coulda been, she woulda been. And that's showbusiness.

You're right, R129. They make up the silliest things on these theater threads.

R123, you're not wrong, but I would suggest that it was never about the singing with these ladies. It's about the performing. That's especially true with Channing. There are plenty of performers who only have a voice to bring to the job. Channing always did the job without a voice.

Carol is almost 90 in this clip and even needs an escort. But she's still reaching every person in the theater. Her gifts were prodigious, even if her voice was not.

R129 doesn't know talent and magic when they see it, only bitterness and their own stubborn opinion.

Some of Chita's early singing was pretty solid.

Even though Babs was miscast, whenever she was off screen, the movie grinds to a halt.

Inspired by this thread, I got the DVD out of the library and I’m watching it now. It’s pretty good. I think Barbra is more than fine, the only thing she does that drives me nuts is the way she constantly waves her hands around like a yenta. You know the move. It’s very stagey. I imagine Bette Midler did the same. Probably all the Dollies did it but it gets annoying.

Who could they have cast besides Walter Matthau, that might’ve been a little bit more attractive? It’s just so awful thinking of Barbra having to go with him.

Saw Channing in NYC in 1964. Wed. matinee. My parents bought the tickets a year in advance and prayed that she wouldn't take the day off. (She did not.)

Still watching the film, we are at the big title number now. Best thing in the movie, Barbra kills it. The bit with Louis Armstrong is very cool. And she doesn’t necessarily look too young, she could pass for 40.

I wonder how the famous big on-set fight between Babs and Matthau went down. What did they scream at each other?

John Wayne? George C. Scott? Robert Mitchum? Trying to come up with a better Horace Vandergelder than Matthau. Anyone?

My favorite galloping waiter is Hank ("glad to see you Hank, let's thank my lucky stars"). You can see him without his mustache in Put On Your Sunday Clothes, he's in the front seat of the train. His smile is so cute.

Elizabeth Taylor would’ve made a good movie Dolly. She had that warmth. You could picture her being into everybody’s business, and galloping waiters falling all over themselves for her.

[quote]Elizabeth Taylor would’ve made a good movie Dolly. She had that warmth. You could picture her being into everybody’s business, and galloping waiters falling all over themselves for her.

Here is a preview of what she may have looked like. Also, she sure couldn't dance. Very thin voice.

ET was dubbed in ALNM.

[quote] ET was dubbed in ALNM.

Maybe for the large choral numbers, but not for "Send in the Clowns." It's probably true that MIss Taylor recorded more than one take of the song and the best parts were chosen and welded together. But she sang. She injured her back during filming of the opening waltz and to keep shooting on schedule, another woman fills in wearing Taylor's costume. Her dancing, improbably, is dubbed. But her singing is not.

However... The first singing in the film comes from Desiree. "Love... takes... time...." There were prints of the film with two different versions of that circulating in the 1970s. Don't ask me why. One had Taylor's small and familiar voice. The other sounded like Zara Leander or possibly William Warfield. Loud, strong and very much lower than the version with Taylor's voice. I saw it once on a Sunday matinee (Theatre 80 St. Marks?) It was a double bill with "Smiles of a Summer Night," so you know the show queens were out in force that day. Taylor opened her mouth and out came this basso profundo Desiree. The audience screamed with laughter. And for the rest of the film, that voice was never heard again. That line was definitely dubbed.

R141 Oh dear. Very well, I stand corrected.

Jack Lemmon could have played Vandergelder. Or George Burns, if you really wanted to go May December.

I like the David Hyde Pierce Horace. A turn of the century Mark Twain looking guy.

Jack Lemmon is not a bad suggestion. I just feel like Horace had to have *some* spark of attractiveness or personality beyond money.

Paul Newman should have been Vandergelder in the film.

Then, it would make sense for Dolly to be knocking every bitch out of the way to get to his dick.

Newman coulda worked. As long as they were going with a young Dolly, Horace didn't have to be old and ugly, only cold and obsessed with money. Didn't even have to be able to sing and dance.

[quote]Didn't even have to be able to sing and dance.

Obviously.

Streisand and Matthau patched up their differences and remained friendly. He was shown attending some of her concerts in later years, including the invitation only ones.

Matthau was hot (as in popular) the year before with several films, one being The Odd Couple, making his brand of cranky an appropriate choice at the time.

Having watched the movie just last night, I maintain that he was lousy in the part. Poor Barbra.

I don't understand why I have no problem with Matthau not really singing and not dancing when it bothers the shit out of me that Rex Harrison talked his way through My Fair Lady and got such wide acclaim for it.

Rex Harrison, the first rapper.

All of Harrison's many numbers in "My Fair Lady" were extremely wordy. Big fancy words, too. He was great. And tuneful when he needed to be. Matthau had one number - "It Takes a Woman," which is actually a great, funny number - and he performed it competently. Just.

You can see why Dolly had to have him.

[quote]I wonder how the famous big on-set fight between Babs and Matthau went down. What did they scream at each other?

BS: DRUNK!

WM: KIKE!

GK: Walter, Barbra, PLEASE.

BS/WM: SHUT UP YOU FAG!

"Hank" aged very nicely and would frequently dine at the Silver Spoon in WeHo circa 1995-2000.

Of all the actors mentioned, Matthau is still in my mind the closest approximation of HV's grouchy self. If only he had been more of an actor and shown a hair of tenderness toward Streisand, it might have worked. But he despised her and it showed, and it hurt the movie.

When Matthau complained about Streisand, the studio told him, "It's not called 'Hello Walter!'"

r155, Mathau also sang a reprise of Hello Dolly.

Sang?

"Sang"

My parents saw Hello, Dolly! on Broadway in the mid-60s. They just missed Carol Channing's last show and saw one of the first done by Ginger Rogers. They said Rogers was good in the part, but to this day they regret not getting to see Carol Channing.

Paul Newman?? Hot yes, but was he ever funny?

David Hyde Pierce surprised me as Horace. I wasn't sure he had it in him, but he made the role his own and, I felt, nearly walked away with the show. Very funny. Bette was Bette. She charmed in the comedy bits, but her dramatic scene where she talks to Ephriam was painfully amateurish and her voice was totally gone.

Peters was brilliant as her replacement. Her voice, too, had diminished, but she'd always had more range than Bette, so it wasn't quite as noticeable and she was even funnier and certainly more moving than Bette.

Bernadette would seem to be an ideal Dolly in many ways.

What I'm getting from this thread is that Horace is the more interesting role, open to some interpretation.

Bernadette Peters sucked as Dolly...even more than she sucked in AGYG

Dolly is still the more interesting role. Horace can be fun if you have the right actor in the role.

And no, Peters was wonderful as Dolly. Funny, warm, and moving. She was lousy and miscast in Annie Get Your Gun and not very good in Gypsy (unless you saw her later in the run where she, somehow, became effective).

It's too bad La Liz couldn't sing or dance. I still think she had a good Dolly personality.

Having just done "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf," she could have channeled Martha for "So Long Dearie" and made it really vicious.

"It's a little LUMPY, but it RINGS!!"

You can laugh all you want, but Lucille Ball would have probably been a much better Dolly than Mame. I think at least a few of the notes in Dolly's score were within her range. She was also much more age appropriate than Streisand.

Actually, I really wanted Ryan O'Neal or Robert Redford for the part of Horace.

So who do we cast for today's film version? Lady Gaga? Rene Zellweger? CZJ?

Gaga isn't funny, so please no. It's not a tough sing, so Zellweger could probably handle it, but she doesn't seem sturdy enough. And we all know Zeta-Jones is far too young for the role.

If there was to be another film version, I'm sure they'd offer it to Bette first. I'm shocked they haven't tried to get her to do it as one of those NBC live musical events. It's a perfect show for it.

What about Madonna? She managed “Evita”.....

For today's film version of "Hello, Dolly!," we cast Allison Janney as Dolly.

She sings. She acts. She is great with comedy. And she is age appropriate. She has an Oscar and a hit television series.

Book her now.

Melissa McCarthy sings well, she would look great in the period costumes, and she nails the comedy.

Allison Janney is a Vera.

What do we think of Jennifer Hudson as Dolly?

Not even trying to be cute here, how about Dolly Parton?

A remake at this stage of the game would likely end up on Disney+ and be terrible.

I could actually see Dolly Parton in that role. I think she would do a great Just Leave Everything to Me. And she would bring a sense of vulnerability to it, unlike Babs, who came across like a crazed bugs bunny-like stalker.

Dorothy Loudon would have been a wonderful Dolly...

Dolly Parton would have been okay in the role in 1985. She would have needed a strong director because she has never shown much acting ability. But she has personality. And she can sing. So it could have coaxed from her.

I do think Doris Day would have been pretty perfect in 1968.

Here ya go, r171....

[quote]Paul Newman?? Hot yes, but was he ever funny?

He was funny as a dimwit cowboy in "Pocket Money" with Lee Marvin. "Slapshot" isn't my cup of tea, but he did what he could there too.

Paul Newman was not funny. Ever.

...

Jerry Herman wrote the show for Ethel Merman but she was through with musicals at the time. This resulted in a few numbers being cut. When Merman finally played Dolly and closed the show in 1970(?) they put those numbers back in. She closed the show on a high note. So to speak..

I do think Dolly Parton would have been great.

And just think of the marketing opportunities.

The story takes place in Yonkers, NY...not Pigeon Forge TN

Why couldn’t Dolly be a transplanted southern belle? Nothing in the story precludes that, does it?

You are correct, R193.

I would add, when Barbra wasn’t doing a Mae West impression, she sounded almost southern sometimes. “Horace VanderGelder the well-known UNmarried half a millionaire...”

I heard they were trying to get Dolly for the last revival to replace Bette. Apparently, they tried to get everyone, but so many people turned them down. No idea why. It's a great fun role for a woman over 40/50. I guess that many shows a week can be a commitment.

It's definitely one of those roles I think Dolly could have pulled off. I would never expect her to play a truly hefty dramatic role, but she has enough personality, charm, and comic timing to have be really excellent in the role.

If we're mentioning country singers with comic chops, Reba would have been brilliant, too. Her performance in Annie Get Your Gun was one of the biggest surprises of my life. Obviously, she sang the role better than probably anyone else, but she had comic chops to spare. I'd love for her to come back to Broadway one of these days.

Cybill Shepherd was supposed to do it at some regional theatre in North Carolina around a decade ago, but dropped out at the last minute. She probably realized she wasn't funny and couldn't sing it. I really can't think of anyone worse for that role.

This would have been an event!

“Dolly IS Dolly!”

Dolly P is richer than God. Why would she need the work it takes to do a stage show week after week? However, a live TV version . . .

Barbra's was 1/3 Mae West, 1/3 Fanny Brice and 1/3 Scarlett O'Hara.

Just a theory — in the Dolly movie, the number "Put On Your Sunday Clothes" was an homage to Judy Garland, and her MGM movies, particularly Harvey Girls. The director is Gene Kelly. The vocal arranger is Roger Edens! Barbra gets to sing "All Aboard" just as Judy did in The Harvey Girls. And Judy Garland herself, if she was ever up to it (which she never was) would have been the greatest Dolly.

Barbra sang the hell out of the score....While each of the Dollys have been unique in their own ways, imagine a stage Dolly who can actually sing and the difference it would make to a ho-hum show.

[quote] They said Rogers was good in the part, but to this day they regret not getting to see Carol Channing.

Were your parents in an institution and unable to get out?

Channing appeared in DOLLY for the next 30 years, playing just about every wide spot in the road

I went to gay entertainer Michael West's show in Atlanta.

He did this bit as Channing, sending up how she had run the role into the ground.

He said he was going door-to-door seeing if people wouldn't *mind* seeing Dolly.

It was very funny.

I saw Carol in her final Dolly your in the 1990s. She was fantastic. Last a May I saw the touring company with Betty Buckley — who was good.

Read somewhere that Phyllis Diller (on Broadway) was the best Dolly ever. Playbill had a story about elderly usherettes and one related how a star lady let her false teeth fly into the orchestra pit. Bet it was Martha Raye in Dolly.

[quote]Imagine a stage Dolly who can actually sing and the difference it would make to a ho-hum show.

Some of the stage Dollys had really good singing voices. For example, Bailey and Merman, to name only two.

R206, I too have read and heard that Phyllis Diller was one of the best all-around Dollys, including her singing. I remember seeing a brief clip of her singing "Before the Parade Passes By" somewhere years ago, maybe in a TV interview with Phyllis, and she sounded great. Wish I could find that clip again.

All Diller singing performances have to be measured against her opening in "The Pruitts Of Southampton".

All Diller singing performances have to be measured against her opening in "The Pruitts Of Southampton".

She sings well on the Ben Bagley recordings.

Phyll...

It's a shame they pulled the plug on the revival after Peters and sent it off on tour. It was a great production that could have run for years with great women of a certain age stepping into the role.

How about Rita Wilson, when she feels better? She can sing....

R213 I think they would have extended the run but there's a limited number of women who would be right for that role and ticket sales were probably falling, the last reason being the deciding factor to close the show.

[quote]It's a shame they pulled the plug on the revival after Peters and sent it off on tour. It was a great production that could have run for years with great women of a certain age stepping into the role.

There are quite a few women who would be right for the role and would sell tickets, but obviously, not all of them would be interested in stepping into the starring role of a Broadway show as the second replacement. I wonder how hard Rudin and the producers tried to find someone great to take over after Bernadette? Instead, of course, they decided to tour the show with Betty Buckley, who I thought seemed very miscast, and who looked and sounded pretty awful in the clips and when she did the title number at the Jerry Herman memorial.

[quote] There are quite a few women who would be right for the role and would sell tickets....

Really? You really think so? Who are these women? What are their names?

Cher

Kathy Z-J

Elaine Paige

Dame Edna

RE: the film - Barbra and Walter were playing in two different films. She was too grounded and not comical enough, Walter had the comic part down pat. They should have had a younger Horace or an older Dolly to match those two stars. Also - the original Broadway cast had comics in the four roles - Dolly, Horace, Cornelius and Irene - because the show is a cartoon and they all got it right. The worst performance in the film comes from Michael Crawford - whatever ANY Irene Molloy would see in him is beyond comprehension. He played it 'stupid', not naive. For a good 'Cornelius', watch Anthony Perkins in THE MATCHMAKER film. He gets it. The movie's most ridiculous moment: after singing the title song and Dolly is going to her table, the entire restaurant is applauding her. The song is a 'book' number, NOT a 'performance' number. She's not singing For the other people, it's her and the waiters. It looks like they are applauding BARBRA (which they probably were). Very Stupid Director Choice.

So, they were just supposed to watch Babs and fags prance around the room for SEVEN plus minutes and do nothing.

Would you have preferred they gave her the Beatnik finger snap?

If you took the number out of the movie, they would've been applauding her return to Harmonia Gardens.

[quote]If you took the number out of the movie, they would've been applauding her return to Harmonia Gardens.

Exactly. Of all things to object to in that movie!

[quote]Barbra and Walter were playing in two different films. She was too grounded and not comical enough, Walter had the comic part down pat.

She's plenty funny in that movie. It's one of the few movies she made, early in her career, when she was actually funny. She then lost her sense of humor, or rather, decided to stop being funny because presumably she (stupidly) felt it prevented her from being taken seriously.

I have no idea why they went with Buckley for the tour. She could have sung the hell out of it 20 years ago, but her voice is unpleasant now and she never had the warmth or comedic chops for the role. I have a hard time believing she was the best they could have done.

Maybe some people just don't want to try and fill Carol Channing's shoes, but Midler, Peters, and Murphy were all more than up for the challenge and each had their high points. It was great to se Midler on a Broadway stage again and she had charisma in spades and held that audience in the palm of her hand the entire night. Peters and Murphy both sang the role better and were far better actresses (especially during that monologue before the parade number). Buckley really had nothing to recommend.

Taking it on the road is a lot different than performing weekly in a stationary theater on Broadway, r223. I'm surprised Betty signed up for the grind at her age. But, she's a warhorse. I decided to pass on her. I would have gone if it had been...say...Faith Prince.

Faith Prince is only one of many examples of better casting for Dolly than Buckley. I wonder if Prince was approached and didn't want to do it? On the other hand, I suppose Buckley has more of a name around the country due to EIGHT IS ENOUGH and CARRIE, so maybe that was part of the reason why she got the part.

P.S. Megan Mullally would have been AMAZING as Dolly, but she may not have been interested even if she was approached. Buckley's rep in the industry is so bad that I thought she'd never work again outside of one-off concerts and such, so she must have been thrilled to be approached for DOLLY! and probably didn't hesitate to agree to tour, as I doubt she had many or any other job offers.

I would love to see Christine Ebersole as Dolly. She projects personality as well as her voice enormously onstage, and would be great.

For fuck's sake, R218. Elaine Paige is 72 years old. Cher is 73 years old. And Dame Edna is 86 years old. Page would not sell a ticket on Broadway. They mailed it would die before she got through the first performance. But, yes. Cher would sell a lot of tickets. So you go put that together and make a lot of money, okay?

CZJ would be just fine in the role, but now that she's married to Hollywood royalty why do you think she would be Better Midler's second replacement? And after 3 months, her ability to move tickets may be sorely tested.

Faith Prince would have been a much more interesting idea. Has she ever played the role even regionally? It seems like a good fit for her.

Taylor Dayne?

Faith Prince would be a fine Dolly for a month in a top flight regional theater. But she does not sell tickets.

[230] Faith Prince was set to do "Dolly!" at the St. Louis MUNY, but dropped out when she chose to play Lalume (opposite Michael Ball and Alfie Boe) in "Kismet" at the London Coliseum/ENO. Prince was replaced for the MUNY by Randy Graff.

I feel for anyone who thought Matthau was a skillful comic actor in DOLLY.

Agree, R232, I just watched it and his performance and presence was dreadful and depressing. Sorry, Walter.

Walter was just one of those actors who thought he could skate by on his looks.

Matthau was a skillful comic actor.

But he seems to be a miserable and unhappy man in every scene of "Hello, Dolly!"

Thats the point...Horace was a curmudgeon.

R236 But there has to be SOMETHING about him that would make Dolly want to be with him.

In the movie, the only thing he has going for him is cash. And that makes Dolly just a common whore.

He just needed to love of a good woman to show him the error of his ways...and the money didnt hurt

[quote]But there has to be SOMETHING about him that would make Dolly want to be with him. In the movie, the only thing he has going for him is cash. And that makes Dolly just a common whore.

Horace's belief that "money is like manure" is the same philosophy Dolly's late husband Ephrem, ascribed to. She wanted Horace's money to spread around encouraging young things to grow, not for herself.

No, that's not the point, R236. Horace is a crusty curmudgeon, certainly.

But Matthau stalked through the film like an angry man in a divorce court.

You have to remember also, that at the time frame the story takes place, it was VERY common for older men to marry younger (much) women. It was much more prevalent than it is today.

The corona virus killed Dolly.

Oh, God! PLEASE don't let the virus get Barbra!!!

Carol Matthau loved sleeping with Walter cause he was so hairy!

Wasn't Carol Matthau an Albino ?

Yes, an Albino dwarf.

Tell yourself about Hello, Dolly after doing some online research, bitch.

Do you want DL to wipe your ass for you, too? Since there's no toilet paper?

It's clear you have the internet.

Lazy Cunt

There's a song "I Eat Old People's Excrement" that was written about R247.

Oh Gays, please tell me about the song "I Eat Old People's Excrement" !

I'm too much of a LAZY CUNT to do my own research!

R249 No, no.

"Lazy Cunt" was cut from the original MAME!

[quote]"Lazy Cunt" was cut from the original MAME!

Fun Fact: Jerry Herman originally titled the song "Gooch's Cooch".

Matthau was a great comic actor . . . in the right role. Vandergelder requires a farceur, an ex-vaudevillian, as David Burns was.

I think Matthau played the role of Horace correctly for a film version of HELLO, DOLLY! -- or, at least for that film version of it. Because of Gene Kelly's poor direction, the tone of the movie keeps shifting. Sometimes it's quite farcical, for example in some of the scenes involving Cornelius and Barnaby, but a lot of it is much more downplayed and earnest than a stage production would be. I think Matthau walks the line very well, and I find him quite funny at several points in the movie, pretty much in a deadpan way.

I think Walter could have used a mustache in the movie.

Jerry Lewis was Kelly's first choice for the role.

Jerry Lewis? The only man darker inside than Walter Matthau.

What was Kelly thinking? Why did Barbra not shoot it down?

When Hello Dolly was filming, Barbra had yet to have a movie released.

How long did Hello Dolly sit on the shelf? They had agreed not to release it as long as the show ran on Broadway.

According to Jeff Kurtti's book THE GREAT MOVIE MUSICAL TRIVIA BOOK, a clause in the 1965 film sale contract specified that the film could not be released until June 1971 or when the show closed on Broadway, whichever came first. In 1969, the show was still running. Eager to release the film to recoup its cost, Fox negotiated and paid an "early release" escape payment to release "Dolly" which cost Fox an estimated $1–2 million.

The movie premiered on December 16, 1969 at the Rivoli on Broadway, while Pearl Bailey (or probably more accurately, Thelma Carpenter) was still performing in the stage play at the St. James, five blocks away. (I suppose it's somewhat ironic that the movie actually played ON Broadway, while the Broadway play was performed on West 44th Street).

The play continued performances for another 54 weeks, closing on December 27, 1970.

Herman didn't write Love Is Only Love for Streisand in the film. He wrote it for Angela to sing in Mame but it was cut very early on. Here's rare audio of her singing it during a piano run through. I prefer her version.

Loved Carol Channing in the stage version. Loved Barbra in the movie. It was great.

I'm surprised no one thought to mention Sally Struthers performance as Dolly!

I saw it at North Shore Music Circus in Beverly MA, as a kid, with my parents -- summer stock -- with Molly Picon. I forget how they finessed that her maiden name was Gallagher. She was great and the show was a lot of fun, it's great to see onstage if it's done well.

Hello, Dolly.

Well, Hello, Dollies!