Eldergays tell me what it was like when Ted Kennedy primaried President Jimmy Carter

Thanks for the tip, OP. Sounds interesting. Going to DVR it. Bush Sr. definitely seemed more sensible than Reagan. I mean, he was decrying trickle down policy as "voodoo economics," before he decided to forget about that in order to satisfy his own ambition to become R's VP.

OMFG Reagan said "vegetation causes pollution"??? how the FUCK did he win? embarrassing

I had no idea repubs were this stupid 40 years ago too

and a bitter former aid of Kennedy, Paul Corbin, stole Carter's 1st debate prep book and gave it to the Reagan campaign. He wanted Carter to lose so Kennedy could win the 1984 election.

wow never knew things so were twisted back then

It didn't matter. Carter was winning till Sept 1980.

R3 The Kennedy's and their hangers on were always corrupt sleazebag trash. Unfortunately the press licked their asses for decades, all while trashing decent politicians like Jimmy Carter.

Not related to this thread. But I had no idea another koch brother died this month. Can't believe no one on this site didn't start a thread on that.

It was the gay koch brother. Fredrick koch. He was 86 and died on February 12.

That really went under the radar.

Another koch brother dead.

R6 I don't have a link but someone did start a thread linking to the New York times article about him.

R7 oh, I had no idea. I'm just now finding out tonight. I ended up stumbling across it by chance.

Thanks.

[quote] Can't believe no one on this site didn't start a thread on that.

They didn’t do who to what?

Or they did?

The polls were EVEN going into the final weekend in Nov 1980, R4.

Kennedy was surprisingly pretty lousy on the stump, a lot of yelling and screaming...years later I wondered if he was drinking Anyway, he must have been sober at the convention because he gave the most powerful speech of his career, and one of the best of any convention in any year.

I voted for Kennedy, and he won the NYS primary. Next day I saw him shaking hands in Grand Central. I looked and ran, was late for work.

The main thing I remember was Carter saying ahead of election season that if Kennedy did primary him, "I'll whip his ass."

I've hated Ted since I learned that he blocked Carter's plans for universal health care. What a different world we'd be living in if that had gone through back then.

R13 Ted was vile. And Carter still hasn't got his due.

R13 I didn’t know that and am surprised because he’s always made out to be the “more liberal” one, including last night. Btw that was a really unflattering take on Carter didn’t you think?

Carter was not a good president, dear youngsters. It was a tough time and no one elected in 1976 was going to be re-elected in 1980. But Carter was in over his head in the job. I voted for him twice because I don't vote for Republicans.

R13 how did he block it? He was that influential in Congress?

Ted Kennedy was extremely powerful in congress and passed a lot of legislation so yes, very influential.

R18 unlike the soon to be Democratic nominee who has passed one bill in his 40 year career.

R11 what made you want to vote for Kennedy? You thought he had a better shot at keeping the Presidency in Democratic hands? Or just didn't like Carter?

Carter was a haughty, rude asshole in private.

A real jerk.

R17, he wasn’t known as The Lion of the Senate for no reason.

Yeah - the Fred Koch thread should be revived. Fascinating - I had no idea there was gay brother. Who said he wasn’t gay. Deep deep closet. Despite gobs of money and no one being able to do anything to him - still too chicken to come out,

Like 95% of every Democrat I knew, I hated Carter, R20. Everyone was looking for alternatives, there was even a draft Kennedy movement. I remember someone on 60 Min in 1979 asking congress person Barbara Jordan if she'll support Carter in 1980 (yes), then would she support Carter if Sen Kennedy ran. She wouldn't answer. Ted Kennedy was a slob, but he was a symbol being a Kennedy, and he was a great effective senator - better than both his brothers combined. There was also a feeling that he could take the nomination simply by running, just as was thought about Bobby for a while in the 1960s.

Note Jimmy Carter never won a NYS primary, not in 1976 or 80. He was always very unpopular here. A lot of it was his throwing religion around in a way no mainstream politician ever had before. New York ain't Dixie.

One more thing - in the NYS delegation at the 1980 Democratic Convention, there were a couple of people holding professionally printed signs, QUEENS FOR CARTER. I thought that was funny! They meant Queens NY, a borough of NYC , in case some of you haven't seen Eddie Murphy's "Coming to America."

Kennedy was a prick. Sore loser, which is demonstrated for all to see on national television at the Dem convention. It was disgrace, and he essentially gave his supporters approval not to support Carter. Kennedy's action played a huge role in Carter's loss. It wasn't only the Iranian hostage crisis.

Kennedy ought to be ashamed on himself. But what do you expect from a privileged frat boy who didn't help save a drowning woman and let her die?

It really was the beginning of the end of liberalism. Seemed like things could be moved to the left but the right came back with a vengeance. All the worst of today in terms of economics and capitalism was unleashed in 1980.

"he essentially gave his supporters approval not to support Carter"

R26, Carter wasn't up for the unity hand holding up high either. Carter was a conceited bitter asshole, which people could feel. Another reason he lost.

Carter was arrogant. He didn't get along with the Georgia legislature when he was governor (he was a bit more liberal than them) and didn't know how to work with Congress as president. There are people from that era who find Carter's search for redemption a bit annoying.

He probably could have won against Reagan if he could hav resolved the Iran hostage situation before the election.

Kennedy had to do it. Carter was a horrible president and someone on the right or left was going to take him out.

The failed Iranian hostage rescue (and the ongoing, relentless hostage crisis) really did him in. I remember the poli sci majors in college being into independent candidate John Anderson.

You describe Carter perfectly, R29. Though I don't agree with you last sentence, but everything else is 100% accurate. I will never get over these people who weren't around buying this Jimmy Carter the decent one who never had a chance, never got his due. It's Carter you should blame for Reagan getting elected.

Why would Ted Kennedy block universal health care in the Senate? And why was he so powerful in the Senate? I've always heard he was the lion of the Senate, but never knew why. So why is that?

As a millennial who was born in the 80s I'm kind of shocked and saddened that between 1969 and 1993, we had 6 presidential terms with just ONE being Democratic. Nixon, Nixon/Ford, Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush.

Universal health care one one of Kennedy's core issues, R33.

it's shocking how quickly Americans forgave repubs after the Nixon debacle

[quote] Carter was a horrible president

Reagan was several orders of magnitude worse, like a whole other universe of worse.

Kennedy didn't want Carter getting credit for universal health care. His ego fucked us all over for decades.

Republicans are stupid assholes. So are swing voters and independents, who seem to lean largely Republican anyway.

Fuck all of them.

Nixon was another damn devil.

Republicans / Conservatives are AGAINST stuff. Dems / Progressives are FOR stuff. It always easier to rile up hatred AGAINST something than motivate people FOR something.

Reading on Kennedy vs. Carter

Carter was intellectual. Why do people insist he was conceited? Where's the evidence for that?

Realistically, Chappaquiddick was disqualifying, wasn't it?

Even if he had won the Primary, he could never have won the election with that incident in his past.

Even though so many on the right literally worship the guy, I'd say Reagan was even worse than Trump. Arguably nothing Trump has done (yet) matches the long-term magnitude of Reagan's dropping the ball on the AIDS crisis. But perhaps his inaction on climate change will equal that dismal record.

Yes R43. I never understood why he chose to run so soon after that. Probably the fear of an early death - like so many in his family.

R37, you're on another planet. NO.

"Reagan was several orders of magnitude worse, like a whole other universe of worse."

Sure, but Reagan won the likability race. Face it, these dumbass voters revere that shit. Now get your asses in gear and nominate a likable candidate in 2020 - it IS that important.

R43 yeah I agree. He was a smart guy though he would never have run if he hadn’t sensed a void (the same way Bloomberg didn’t decide to run until he sensed one). The fact that it was Reagan who won over Carter makes us soft on Carter, but really, regardless of whether it was Reagan or someone we liked quite a bit better, Carter did not deserve a second term.

I’m curious about John Anderson (my father voted for him, actually). He was a Republican who then became too liberal for the party? From what I’ve gathered I liked what he stood for.

R47, I voted for John Anderson because I couldn't stomach Carter and his smugness and failure, and I would never vote for a ass like Reagan. Stupid on my part, but I was only 25. John Anderson was a MODERATE REPUBLICAN. He was the Republican Anti-Reagan once HW Bush dropped out. Most politicians on both sides were moderates before Reagan. So it was smug failure Carter vs religious way right conservative Reagan in 1980. Anderson seemed like a very good choice.

[quote] [R37], you're on another planet. NO.

You say that then agree with me?

Teddy had flavahhh!

R21, Absolutely.

R49, repeat after me: reading comprehension, reading comprehension, reading comprehension

I still remember Ted's speech at the convention.

R52, clarity of expression is better.

Dream on dearest R54.

I held my nose and voted for the turn-your-thermostat-down peanut farmer. I mean "president" Reagan? No way! Reagan was the beginning of the end. I really believe that. At least Nixon had no time to spare for the religious kooks.

Teddy Kennedy also stopped President Richard Nixon's plan for Universal Health Care.

Yes, RICHARD NIXON.

Health care was an important issue for Nixon because of his own family's experience and when he became President, universal health care was one of Nixon's important goals.

When RIchard Nixon was a boy, Nixon's family was hugely impacted when one of his brother became sick as a boy and their mother had to step away from her small earnings to take care of the boy.

So, Nixon knew from his own personal experience as a boy how illness could so negatively impact the fortunes of an entire family.

And it was TEDDY KENNEDY who stopped Nixon's plan for Universal Health Care.

Ted Kennedy was a shit for that reason alone. And for plenty of other reasons.

R27, the fighting and economic uncertainty almost brought down the economy. I bought my first house in 1978 and had a fixed interest loan. I got some good advice that indicated inflation would be moving out of control in about 6 months, which turned out to be the case. Inflation went through the roof, but I was protected. Banks started only offering adjustable rate mortgages without a large down payment the following year, a real prelude for 2008. People took them and quickly ended up under water in their homes and unable to pay. They were losing homes left and right, because most did not think inflation would rise at the rate it was going up. It went up to 19% from 3% over a period of months. It was that situation for a lot of people that made them switch from Carter.

R58 that happened to my family . Suddenly they were paying a 5k a month mortgage.

40 years ago, can you imagine?

[quote] Reagan's dropping the ball on the AIDS crisis.

I would argue Reagan didn’t drop the ball. He avoided the ball at all costs and when he saw it coming the motherfucker left the whole damn field to not even see the ball.

Carter is remembered for the stagflation era but it was Nixon who created the problem and Volcker who ended it. He managed to kill inflation by jacking up the fed funds rates but of course, this meant a lot of short term pain. Carter/Volcker are a big reason for the economic boom of the 80s. Reagan wanted to fire Volcker but ended up hiring him for a second term.

R61 nailed it.

To the Right, Carter raised interest rates to all time highs and Reagan brought them down (they always blame/credit the president). Reaganomics brought the economy back, bravo Ronnie. To the Left, the 1981-82 recession was caused by Reagan mismanagement and Reaganomics. 10% unemployment, honey. The reality is that neither is accurate - Fed Chair Paul Volcker raised interest rates to get a grip on massive inflation, and the recession was INTENTIONAL. I give Ronnie some credit for not being a chicken shit and reappointing Volcker for another term.

R62, bingo.The fact that Carter hired Volcker is proof to me that he was actually brave despite the image he had. It takes guts to solve an economic problem by doing something politically unpopular but necessary. What he lacked was good people on his team to help streamline his image to the public.

Yes, R63. But for me, that doesn't erase Carters arrogance and incompetence when dealing with congress.

R64, I wasn't alive back then but was Carter really that arrogant?

R65, read the first paragraph of R29. Carter didn't get along with people, Carter was a micro manager, Carter was a small business person (peanuts) who wanted to control everyone. Think of an inexperienced Obama trying to control Pelosi (which didn't and couldn't have happened as she wasn't Speaker and Obama wasn't controlling)

R65, Yes!