Have you ever met an Old Money WASP?

Yes. My mother, she died and it didn't change our relationship much.

Yes, I knew quite a few. What do you want to know exactly?

My husband.

Yes. Very nice people. Effortlessly refined.

I assumed everyone on DL was an old money wasp, based on how they behave.

No. Sure, they are better than Kennedys, but who isn’t?

Yep. What do you want to know?

R6: Us!

It is our pleasure to make your acquaintance Original Poster.

Lots of them.

Let's have a Martini!

Oh honey, I'm from Victoria, BC, we have *old* WASP money here, I'm talking fortunes that were made in the slave trade (there is literally a family here whose fortune was made trading slaves, they still own a bunch of old decrepit buildings around downtown) and East India Company investments. Not as old as in Great Britain itself, of course, but for a colony, we really have a lot of them here.

They are white trash. They did everything they could to make sure white supremacy stayed in tact.

And they can't cook worth shit. The food is bland as fuck.

Tactless.

[quote]They are white trash. They did everything they could to make sure white supremacy stayed in tact. And they can't cook worth shit. The food is bland as fuck.

But you is so classy in comparison...Mr fuck and shit

Refined racists.

There is a lot of latent snobbery and blatant condescension. F'em. And if you aren't one of them you will never be one of them, nor will you ever be accepted by them. They are able to sniff out people that are "beneath" them and make it known they are better than you.

I should say they make it known they think they are better than you.

Yes. I grew up with them. Went to school with them. Am friends with them. What are your questions?

R17 And yet, they will die just like everyone else who passes through this world.

They believe they are better than you. There's no insecurity about it.

Another DLer bemoaning the demise of the mid-20th century WASPocracy.

They started dying off 50 years ago friend, and have been replaced by the Meritocracy

I once met a Coca Cola Heiress named Doofy DuBios (I don't know what her real first name was. They all seem to have stupid nicknames. )

She looked and sounded exactly like the little Hen from Foghorn Leghorn.

Seriously though what's with the nicknames? I know Moanee, Pokey, Buff, Dash, Bunny...

All white, obscenely wealthy and racist as fuck

True WASPs are never flashy and quite frugal in their everyday lives. They really do wear navy over black in both business and casual attire, and chino pants instead of sweatpants on the weekends. Some of the women really are named Muffy.

Don't forget DL fave Muffie!

All wasp are trash behind closed doors.

I hate loud ethnic people and their over the top emotions. I admire the WASP. They are logic, cerebral, emotionless and cold. The WASP don't scream or fight.

R25 delivers food to the country club on the weekends

Yes, my paternal grandmother’s family. That side of the family can trace their American roots to the Plymouth colony and before that they had a bunch of land in England and there is a village named after them. A lot of Ivy grads, successful but understated and reserved. Looked down on the rest of my family.

R28 they just disown each other and stop communicating instead. Cultivating serious alcohol problems to deal with it.

WASP America was magical. One of the greatest moments of human history. Do you guys really think Mestizo America will be great? The answer is no.

Why are they such snobbish people? What is that about?

I'm dreaming of a white Christmas, is what R32 wants.

R33 They think their blood is purer because it's closer to English.

But it worked for Martha!!!

And she's from Jersey!!!

BRING BACK THE WASP!!! Mestizos will destroy this country.

R38 We had slavery and jim crow under the wasp.

So you were saying...?

"Sophistication" is not a word that comes to mind for me, OP, in my acquaintance with Northeastern WASP establishment types.

I've found an almost instinctive mistrust of "sophistication" as flash and pretense, which these people are not (or believe they are not). They may be well educated wealthy urban dwellers but, if anything, they cling to small-town values, plain speaking, and humble frugality to the point of drabness in their personal style. They leave "sophistication" to the [italic]arriviste[/italic].

[quote]They did everything they could to make sure white supremacy stayed in tact

stupidity and poor education seem to be the bane of the lower orders

Once our country is controlled by another race it will decline. I feel the Europeans conquered the world. Why? They were more advanced than the rest of the planet. Why weren't other countries trying to find out what was happening on our planet?? I know many will think that is racist but I don't think race had anything to do with it...

WASP means Old Money east coast. The south has nothing to do with the WASP. Lot of dummies here.

R39 I'm fairly certain Doofy DuBios still owned slaves when I met her.

R42 It's in Decline under Wasp Trump.

I know a WASP born and raised on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, and he is incredibly intelligent and sophisticated and well read and plays the piano and etc. he is interesting to someone from lower middle class Brooklyn, like me. He comes from old money and tells me all about the white elites. He says most consider themselves to be open minded but in reality are racist assholes who “don’t get it”. He “gets it” because he chooses to leave the bubble and explore and see different parts and meet people.

He now owns some brownstones in Brooklyn. That is how I met him, and we keep in touch. Nice guy, wise guy, and honest man. He told me about 5 years ago what the government was trying to do in NYC to people of color, and over the past few years I see more and more what he was saying was not him just speaking to speak. He knew what he was saying, and is friends with people who know people in high places. He said they have been working on getting NYC to where it is now since the 70s, when white flight was happening.

R42, here's the thing: by your logic, race had something to do with it, however, we can take that same line of thinking, a correlation of race and metrics of innovation and success, and apply it to present day statistics and outcomes that were used in varying epochs, and I bet that proportionately, we would be able to show that the very same race you claim is responsible for innovation and leadership, has less and less of its people, participating in innovation and leadership.

Also, if being white is all that is needed for success, then why are so many white people unsuccessful? And why is it that a person like you claims that your race is responsible for great things, but the truth is, that being white doesn’t make you the recipient of the rewards attributed to the labor, creativity, or innovation, of your ancestors, or of whites, through out the world. You, did NOT invent the atom bomb ?Jews and other Europeans did), you, did not build a notable car (Ford) and you did not even do something as recent as compounding what is called LSD (Leary).

All you have ever accomplished, that according to your standards, are a noteworthy distinction, is be randomly born white. And I hate to break it to you, when I tell you that you also had ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE IN THAT, NONE. And more to the point, there was absolutely nothing about your white skin, that differentiated you from other white newborns, or newborns of other races, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. All of you shit yourselves, cried, sucked on your mothers’ teats, and crawled on all fours, until one day, you no longer did. Same process for all of you, no exceptions, other than perhaps autistic developmental disorders, and the like.

People like you are just so freakin’ heartbreaking to watch, because even your claims of supremacy based on the past or present achievements, achieved by people who are not actually YOU, show how faulty your thinking process is, and exposes your inability to reason well, adopt and implement critical thinking, and prohibit you from the self awareness necessary, to understand why your arguments of correlation of race to supremacy, have more holes than a block of Swiss cheese, and ultimately, exposing your mental inferiority to me, for example.

Hint: I’m not white. Oh, and I don’t claim pride or boasting of the works of other men and women who resemble me in skin color, because how the fuck does that make me, an accomplished and noteworthy person of distinction in life, when the accomplishments, weren’t accomplished by me in the first place?

Grow the fuck up, kid. You sound so, so stupid, and quite frankly, I am embarrassed for you, as are others here, and in your own life, undoubtedly.

R47 Well stated.

What you just posted will probably scare the hell out of R42, because they'll know it's the truth.

[quote] I feel the Europeans conquered the world. Why? They were more advanced than the rest of the planet.

They weren't very smart after all to see the issues their colonialism, subjugation and slavery would cause. Nope, they thought they could continue on their greedy quest indefinitely. They truly believe they were superior simply due to they color of their skin. Lol

Whites can take a seat while the mess they cause gets cleaned up.

R49 And we'll never let white society forget what they've done either.

That's what they really hate.

They can speak to you and put you at ease even though they look down at you. Say what you will about the upper class whites, they have the gift of gab.

I find their company refreshing in this vulgar, dishonest age, an oasis of civility and tradition. When you destroy an order that has been cultivated over generations, you'd better be sure you're replacing it with something better. We are not.

R8, sorry dear, but neither is a WASP. Ivanka Trump is the daughter of a German-American father and a Czech born mother. The third wife is a Slovene. Neither is from Old Money. They are parvenues.

George H.W. Bush and his wife Barbara (nee Pierce) are classic WASPs. Think Henry Cabot Lodge Jr.. Think Martha Sharp Crawford, aka Sunny von Bulow. And Phelan Beale.

Their day is done.

The only civilized countries in this world are the majority white ones, plus a few East Asian countries. More than half the countries on this planet are awful shitboxes. You don't see people running to live in Jordan or Mozambique. I'll take white countries any day. And so will many non-whites. They know that in spite of difficulties, the white countries are the ones they'd rather be living in.

[quote]Once our country is controlled by another race it will decline.

A quick look at Latin America, the Middle East and Africa tends to make that believable. Everybody hates white people, but they sure as shit love living in majority white countries!

[quote]The only civilized countries in this world are the majority white ones,

Yet...you read about cities like Los Angeles & SF, people living in tents, shtting in the street. Hardly civilised.

Think you might have missed the joke r53.

The white man has grown very soft indeed.

I am going to bring back the name "Phelan"

Lord, the silly preachments here.

I've known many old-money WASPS, and have enough background in it I can pass, although I'm one of those "artsy bohemian gay men" and therefore in a little niche outside the negotiations and marriage-planning talks. The names are those of presidential and other political families, industrial, business and banking families (including some still considered nouveau riche because they made it after 1880), and "socialites" with trusts where they lived off the interest's interest and terrorized the non-profits, museums and dance/symphony companies.

Briefly, true arrogant entitlement never recognizes itself. It usually lives more modestly than one sees the late money do, but that's an illusion because they still have 10,000 acre ranches or mountain spreads and apartments in several cities and countries. All tastefully done up according to location and nothing TOO big. Since no one does weekend house parties any longer and you can't get and keep trained and discreet help anyway. So you have staffs up to about five people to handle your 10-20 rooms and farm out a lot of the work. And you drive your own car unless you want to make a show of it or not drive drunk.

They still do the clubs - country and city - but they're struggling to keep them going. The real movers belong to the club that is only available to the people who are already in the other best clubs. They don't do yachts but they all have friends of more display and recent wealth who DO do yachts, and they do they Adriatic or head to the S. Pacific or pop through the canal from NYC to San Francisco just to say they did it. Planes are fine, but nothing too big, and for heaven sake make it a corporate deal so you don't actually have to pay for it out of your own pocket.

Anyone who spends too freely - except on food and drink - is suspect. You have to make a show of frugality so you can wastefully spend behind the scenes quietly. You have hobbies and collections - art is #1, especially if you have fifth-generation pieces to add to. But stamps, coins and silver are fine. Mistresses are optional. You spend time with your university friends. Some marriages are good but the "freshening" can get out of hand even in the good families. Fat is not a good thing because "good sense" is paramount, but if your family is appropriate you can get away with it. And clothes for men have to be "just so," with a careful display of old quality with a little wear on it and a fine polish on your dress shoes will see you through. Women can spend freely on clothes.

You think you're a fine person making your way in a challenging, often hostile, rather stupid world. You give some money to real issues but never too much. Visionaries are deluded. In the end everything will go fine, but for God's sake have children to leave your name and wealth to. Pray they won't let the family down.

R57, Oops! It's not the first time I've been caught in left field and the ball went over my head. Allow me to express my sincere apologies to R8 and concur with him in a WASP fashion, that that lot is certainly not quite our kind, dear!

This thread reads like a parody.

Some of you genuinely believe your own hype. And frankly, no one cares.

Resting on the accomplishments and laurels of others is the penultimate in laziness and undeveloped ideas, which are obviously untested, because they exist in a vacuum, while the rest of the world moves forward, leaving the existential, yet ever so fragile vacuum in which sloth develops and abounds, behind.

All of you are being trampled under feet. Just because those standing on your backs are wearing velvet socks, doesn’t mean they’re not standing on and over you.

Later, alligators.

Great contribution, R60, and spot on from my humble perch.

I don't really disagree with your r62, but somewhere a WASP is laughing at "penultimate."

oh, look...another racebait post.

R60, if you don’t pass for a WASP, as you claim you can, rest assured, tonight, right here, on DL, you’ve managed to pass for a fucking idiot.

Absolutely no experience with old money, R66?

R60: their clubs have long waiting lists.

If WASPs want to maintain an illusion of old money and old traditions and customs that may have seen better days, I really can't say it bothers me. The kind of thing r60 is describing may be silly at times, but so what? We live in the land of Trump. Silly is definitely a cut above vicious and stupid and ridiculously loud and nasty.

The real deep down racists, the ones who imagine that Victorian England or Gilded Age America prove some grand theory of human racial evolution, well, where to start, maybe just start with how brief and contingent these rises and falls of particular races and ethnicities actually are.

My mortgage doesn’t discriminate between old and new money, R67.

NEWSFLASH: Neither does yours.

If you believe that this is something I aspire to or envy, I want you to rest assured, that I am not. If you have any doubts, just reread what you wrote, and pretend someone else wrote it. If your eyes don’t roll back to infinity, then they’re useless, and have not served you well, regardless of what position or direction they’re fixed upon.

LMAO.

I have to add, I grew up thinking I was a very funny, friendly, outgoing, warm person in my wealthy enclave.

I’m partnered with a white-adjacent (which I learned here and we both find hilarious) and he’s taught me and shown me how the world sees me as an ice cold WASP. I don’t mean to be cold. It’s my tone and expression, and it’s absolutely not how I want to present myself but I can’t change it now in my 30s.

Truly it was shocking to me.

The patrician class are victims of their progressive Ivies, and of course hatred of their fathers, I'd say.

R72:

They’re victims.

Fixed it for you.

[quote] Once our country is controlled by another race it will decline. I feel the Europeans conquered the world. Why? They were more advanced than the rest of the planet. Why weren't other countries trying to find out what was happening on our planet?? I know many will think that is racist but I don't think race had anything to do with it...

There’s No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label

It's been used to define and separate people for millennia. But the concept of race is not grounded in genetics.

Over the past few decades, genetic research has revealed two deep truths about people. The first is that all humans are closely related—more closely related than all chimps, even though there are many more humans around today. Everyone has the same collection of genes, but with the exception of identical twins, everyone has slightly different versions of some of them. Studies of this genetic diversity have allowed scientists to reconstruct a kind of family tree of human populations. That has revealed the second deep truth: In a very real sense, all people alive today are Africans.

Our species, Homo sapiens, evolved in Africa—no one is sure of the exact time or place. The most recent fossil find, from Morocco, suggests that anatomically modern human features began appearing as long as 300,000 years ago. For the next 200,000 years or so, we remained in Africa, but already during that period, groups began to move to different parts of the continent and become isolated from one another—in effect founding new populations . . .

DNA is often compared to a text, with the letters standing for chemical bases—A for adenine, C for cytosine, G for guanine, and T for thymine. The human genome consists of three billion base pairs—page after page of A’s, C’s, G’s, and T’s—divided into roughly 20,000 genes. The tweak that gives East Asians thicker hair is a single base change in a single gene, from a T to a C.

Similarly, the mutation that’s most responsible for giving Europeans lighter skin is a single tweak in a gene known as SLC24A5, which consists of roughly 20,000 base pairs. In one position, where most sub-Saharan Africans have a G, Europeans have an A. About a decade ago a pathologist and geneticist named Keith Cheng, at Penn State College of Medicine, discovered the mutation by studying zebrafish that had been bred to have lighter stripes. The fish, it turned out, possessed a mutation in a pigment gene analogous to the one that is mutated in Europeans.

This is a thread for old white loons to make up stories and lie to make themselves look cool and superior. They aren’t. They hide behind a computer. If this were true they wouldn’t even be on this site. I don’t know one intellect that would be on here.

Finally. Some science@ R74!

Trying to tease some sense from R75... never-mind.

There are some fullon racists here, but come on, I don't think most of the posters are demanding that everyone love WASPs or be jealous of WASPs or fall down in worship of WASPs. Some people are taking all this way too personally. Sorry, but I think a lot of the whole YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME thing might be misplaced.

That was interesting at r74 though.

R75, DL has some pretty intelligent people. Get on some threads discussing literature. That’s where you usually come across them.

What there is is a lot of SJW shout-down on this thread. You make a god point with it, but not the one you intended.

R79 but most of THOSE posters do not bother with threads like these.

And a WASP is a White Anglo Saxon Protestant. One can be poor and be a WASP.

Also, Italians, Irish, Greeks, Spanish etc. are NOT WASPs

[quote] Oh honey, I'm from Victoria, BC, we have *old* WASP money here,

How completely unimpressive your boast is.

Victoria, BC was founded only in 1862.

True enough r81. Appalachia might be the most WASP part of the country, but there is definitely a kind of WASP, and it has it's own little culture in New York and Boston and a few other places. And it's okay if a few people want to talk about that culture. I'm not WASP but I don't get the whole trauma if some people are that, and like it.

Poor European trash that had been exploited and mistreated, by monarchs, stole an entire country. Then they proceeded to mistreat and exploit the natives and each other, in order to get rich and establish their own unofficial monarchy.

It’s ok to speak about it, but some are speaking like they are a part of it or best friends with billionaires and that is bullshit. And they are just using it as an excuse to be racist. That is where the real issue is r83

I do get that, there are some racists here, including some moron babbling about the terrible mestizo menace. But then there are posts like r60, which if you reread it is not some DECLARATION OF WASP SUPERIORITY, and people seem triggered by it, and I don't get that.

r86 some people just have a particular ideology and nothing will change it.

We're all heading over to the Barrett Long thread, darlings. Coming?

R60 I could listen to you speak for hours! More! More!

Wasps?

Do they sting?

R28 is as racist as any Klansman. Scum like this deserves to die out.

I’m so sick of this racist ruling class forever in power. When are people going to wake up and fight back?

Oh Mother of God, yes, r90!

R75 There’s always that one commenter who simply can’t believe that there are posters out there who are being genuine. Not everyone who posts is attempting to be fake or pull the wool over our eyes. The genuine artifact can sometimes be a poster as well. I’m not saying believe every single thing posted here, because of course there are frauds, but to discredit a well written post as fake is just an insecurity on your own part parts

R60 10,000 acres is a weekend retreat. Real ranchers (WASPs in the West) go for much bigger.

The Dream is always better than the reality.

Hollywood re-creation of the WASPS is way better than the real thing.

I gave you bitches a peek

R91 Its called creative writing bitch. We all learned it in school.

They are people who graciously say, "Yes. Would you like to know?

yeah the whole Hollywood invention of the WASPs, oh, that's a whole nother thing. And, well, this thread already has racists and I don't want to add the anti-Semites to this whole discussion, but bitches, you know what I'm talking about.

But for a real view, read Edith Wharton. A WASP bitch with zero illusions and zero fucks to give.

[quote]and have been replaced by the Meritocracy

You mean the "it's all who you know"-ocracy?

Like “society” the concept of “old money WASP” is dying off. Lot of intermarriage with different ethnic, cultural and socioeconomic levels. Behavior has even evolved to be less uptight - as with most of America. There is a reserve and social norms - but no longer fast and rigid. Hell, you can even be gay now.

Having grown up on the Main Line when it was still old money WASP, I don’t think that world exists anymore. Most of the kids moved to CA or NY and adopted the less uptight traits of their adoptive cultures. I would say the 70s into the 80s was the last gasp of that world. Tech fortunes, celebrity, international wealth have made “old money” inconsequential.

[quote]But for a real view, read Edith Wharton. A WASP bitch with zero illusions and zero fucks to give.

asking them to read might be overtaxing dear, i've made more accessible for people like them

Actually, Albert Hoffmam is credited with first synthesizing LSD, not Timothy Leary.

" I think they are the best elite any country could have."

Congratulations on your lickspittle lifestyle.

As to your question, yes. I have met many Old Money WASPS.

Not nearly as impressed as you've been, dear. Although one woman, who was schizophrenic, was actually quite charming and sweet. Meanwhile, her sister, who was merely highly neurotic, was very unpleasant to be around.

Most everyone else was boring and boorish. Just because they knew which fork to use did not actually translate to decent manners.

Does Arpège make WASPs forget their lines?

No, I don't think we have them where I live.

What r101 said. Cultural, economic and demographic changes have made the old money WASP world kind of a relic. The world has moved on.

I believe that the Silent Generation (the gen between the WWII gen and the Boomers) was really the end of the line for what most people think of when they think of real WASP behaviors and social mores. Later generations have blended in with the rest of America. And now that the Silent Generation is very old and on the way out, the real WASPy WASPs will be too.

honestly, I think that's what it makes it more interesting r107. Worlds passing away are fascinating in their own way.

Murial needs to scrap the optional font tags or whatever html mumbo-jumbo people are using to modify the font.

If I was a WASP, my first name would be "Bram," and after dinner, the other gentleman and myself would retire to the study, and smoke pipes among the wood paneling and leather chairs. Mimsy would escort the wives to the sewing room, tea room or perhaps the nursery if there was a child.

R101 Is right. In a world with tech fortunes, celebrity fortunes like the, Oprah's and Kardashians of the world, long with international wealth.

The WASP wealth is nothing. As a matter of fact, what the WASP has now is dust. They can't compete with 21st century wealth anymore.

They still have money, but it's not what it use to be.

What about Patricia Altschul? She's that southern socialite on that reality show "Southern Charm" and she's always talking about the wasp.

What do you self proclaimed wasps think of her. She also got her wealth from her kate Jewish husband's estate.

She's also a big time drinker. So I guess in that regard she carries some wasp traits.

And again there is this weird tone to some of these posts, like they FINALLY will get their REVENGE on the dreaded WASPs that snobbed their grandparents. Nobody cares. There are some old society types clinging to some old traditions. They are not a danger to you. They really are not. In fact that "meritocracy" and those silicon valley types and all the asshole strivers on Wall Street are infinitely more dangerous. If you want to push back on some rich assholes, start there. And never, ever, ever vote Republican. Ever.

You called, dahling?

Altschul is a perfect example. Plays the role of old money WASP fro a long family. In reality she hooked up with a Jewish banker in NY after her first two marriages - which is when she hit the jackpot. The money he provided allowed her to play at being a “socialite” or “old money WASP” in a reality stab show. But just a gold digger who hit gold.

I've met a handful of billionaires, at fundraisers and benefits. You qould never guess they are so rich; they seem like ordinary, average people. I guess fame changes people more than wealth does.

I met a bunch of them in college. They were uninterested in meeting anyone as they thought they knew everyone who counted already. It was almost like a prison mentality.

lol, i made a fucking fortune selling that high wasp shtick to the prole wannabes

In my experience, they aren’t racists, per se.

R120 Oh, their very racist.

Ever heard of the "Everglades Club" in palm beach?

Go read about that place.

So the wasp aren't racist huh?

country went downhill? I wonder how many blacks and women were accepted to the top 100 colleges in any given year under this wonderful system we had when WASPs were in charge. I wonder how many black lawyers there were in America during that period.

I wonder how many people never had healthcare and died. How many gay people just killed themselves or did what their WASP community expected and married a woman to create desperately unhappy families and children.

I wonder how many black and female scientists were actively working and able to get great jobs after their masters or doctorate degrees. YOUR GRANDPARENTS AND PARENTS PROBABLY DIED OF DISEASES THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN CURED IF WE HAD ALLOWED MORE GREAT MINDS TO ENTER THE SCIENTIFIC FIELDS as opposed to just white men from the "right families" who could afford to send their kids to the "best colleges"

Sincerely, white guy who thinks your head is up your ass.

[quote] [R101] Is right. In a world with tech fortunes, celebrity fortunes like the, Oprah's and Kardashians of the world, long with international wealth. The WASP wealth is nothing. As a matter of fact, what the WASP has now is dust. They can't compete with 21st century wealth anymore. They still have money, but it's not what it use to be.

About seven in 10 wealthy families lose their fortune by the second generation, according to a study of more than 3,200 high-net worth families by the Williams Group wealth consultancy. By the third generation that number has jumped to 90%.

I still like Anderson Cooper...so there!

I've known many. The more they have, the less it will be evident it will be at first glance. They drive old cars of unfashionable make, knowing that cars don't make the man, they only mark him as flashy. They never have the grandest house on the block (from the outside.) Their country house will be set well back and out of sight from a crooked, brambly country road with just a mailbox and a simple farm gate, but in a quiet style and with the massing broken up to suggest a smaller, simpler house than it is; inside is a mix of refined and I don't care frumpy. Though their piss poor distant cousins and exes may lunch on the family name, the ones who have money never splash about with it.

Their fortunes may have dwindled relative new wealth (R123's point that it is very difficult to hold onto money across generations) but a few know this well and know to live without touching capital, and to look after their capital as well. You may spend your lifetime acquring things if you are lucky - houses, furniture, art - old money, they have those things already; houses are a game of checkers, and attics are full of mothballed furniture and art. No one buys anything new, maybe a few small paintings by an important artist that they will in time give to a museum. Least of all no one buys curtains or worries about dog hair or carpet stains. No one ever restores a house because their houses never need restoring, and if their bathrooms are cramped relics of the 1920s squeezed into older houses, so what?

You can talk with them for many hours, know them for years and they will never ask you about your job (or know that you have one unless you make a point of it); work is a most impolite subject. They have a hundred "men" to do specialized things: a man to repair stone walls, and clock man to keep the clocks running well, a man to tune the piano, a man to reglaze the greenhouses, a man to make replacement Versailles planter boxes, a man to polish the furniture once a year, a man to do the lead gutters, and they are faithful to these men until they die. They mention friends and acquaintances by first name usually and gauge very quickly if you know them or not, avoiding dropping last names - a sort of fast-paced guessing game ("You know John and Mary, then, on Brenham Lane?" "Yes, the Loftons, I know John's son well.") They love new blood, all you have to be in polite and not grasping and interesting in some way; they will invite you to their houses often but if you move away they will somehow know and you will never have another word from them. They mostly have excellent manners and an ease with dealing with all sorts. They can talk canapés for hours, and amusingly, weaving in endless tangents.

Where others may strive to show off their status and what they have and how much they have achieved, these people strive to hide their light under a bushel. They live well off fortunes made generations ago and the hard work of lawyers and well tended investments and and don't need or want others to know how well or how easily.

R125 There's plenty of people like that in Savannah and Charleston.

I see them all the time.

Where are the great black scientists? Detroit is the most scientific city in the whole wide world, right? Look at the scientific Nobel prize winners, no blacks there. Stop with the fantasy. Blacks will never be as glamorous and sophisticated as Old Money WASP, deal with it. Black african elites are tacky and corrupt as hell.

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

The WASP showed that economic elites can have values and principles. They are the best elite of human history because of that. It was never about power or money. That is their greatest attribute.

My high school best friend’s family had their own MUSEUM in the town where their Victorian German-American industrial fortune began. I think that is quite classy. Unfortunately both his parents came from separate fortunes, and his father, who had grown up on a big plutocratic estate, was the most emotionally stunted individuals I’ve ever encountered. It was like he belonged to a forgotten tribe (Really Olde Wealth) and now was interacting with the real world for the first time.

R127 and R129 Trump says hi, and he sends his love.

It’s a subculture like any other. It’s not going away. As long as we have ghetto queens and Juggalos and ballers and anarchists and doomsday preppers and starlets, we’ll have WASPs. It’s okay. Let them be.

[quote] As long as we have ghetto queens and Juggalos and ballers and anarchists and doomsday preppers and starlets, we’ll have WASPs.

This sounds like an incredible must-watch reboot of ‘The Real World’.

The family I know have immense pride in the youngest daughter who makes an obscene amount of money in the palm oil trade. Says it all really. money=morality for these people. You can rape, main and destroy as long as you have the right twinset and haircut.

R125 you’ve nailed it down pretty well. They’re still around, but perhaps a little more hidden, they like it that way.

[quote] If I was a WASP, my first name would be "Bram,"

If your first name were “Bram” you probably wouldn’t be a WASP.

I wonder why it’s always cutesy names, the sort you’d give a puppy or a kindergartener or a China doll. For such powerful adults to have infantilised diminutive names is strange. Or is the idea to obfuscate?

R114, your post is perfect. You’re right. They’re not a danger. They’re old, and disappearing. Even when they were around, what most people here don’t get is what it actually looked like.

A bunch of widows. Widows, living in the same apartment they have owned for years. Old furniture. Rooms that are never even used. Sometimes the dog ends up shitting the Persian, because he’s old too. The kids and grandkids are living in Los Angeles or Northern California. Some , the Midwest. These women? Almost all of their friends have died, or have left to Florida.

Most people here bragging about this, have actually never seen this up close. I have seen this up close. and I’m not a WASP, yet one of my closest girlfriends is. She lives in France, with her husband, and her mother refuses to relocate into a retirement community, and despises the French, so Paris is a big NO.

Anyhow, even my girlfriend and her family aren’t racist as some of you here claiming WASPhood are. Living in NYC has a way of placing them in crossroads where they come across all sorts and types, and they, just like anyone else, need friends and help, too.

Good people with good social mores, are the people who do not a judge a man or a woman by his race or bank account. They see everyone as equals, and understand that being born into old or even new money is not in any way, whatsoever, what determines the character of others.

Also, just in case people here forgot? Most WASPs 65 and under hold down full time jobs - FYI.

I thank Ralph Lauren for letting me know I’m a shame to wasps everywhere.

The few I’ve worked with have been older and they do put in 80 hours per week - except months spent elsewhere.

And they drive everywhere. There used to be flocks of Lexi SUVs in black. It appears that GMC white is the current trend.

The younger ones are social workers and assholes who bring visual art to the blind with foundation money that didn’t come from their families.

And yes they fall for that kind of moronic dogooderism because there be vultures.

[quote]Also, just in case people here forgot? Most WASPs 65 and under hold down full time jobs - FYI.

Of course, there's a difference between WASPs in the broad sense and the Old Money WASPs of OP's question. Most WASPs work, most Old Money WASPs whose fortunes have not run dry have a degree and may have worked at something or another for a brief time but mostly not, because they don't have to do.

The old money WASP women I know don’t have to work, but they do volunteer work. Noblesse oblige and all that. They’re not idle.

^^Museum Docents, running lecture programs at the public library, planting flowers in the park, fundraisers for various charitable endeavors, running the local historical society, garden and house tours, etc.

WASPs always seem to breath peace and make one forget the world and its sad turmoils.

R53 here. I listed Phelan Beale as a WASP...My apologies to his antecedents and his descendant. They were Irish and Catholic to boot. Their pedigree was older than the Kennedys. More akin to the First Irish families.

[quote]. I listed Phelan Beale as a WASP...My apologies to his antecedents and his descendant.

Somehow I don't think they're reading you here on DL, so don't lose any sleep over that one.

WASP is not synonymous with “protestant white person.” It specifically references British, and specifically English, ancestry. You’re not a WASP just because you’re a white non-catholic gentile. Not even if you truly believe you’re superior to “ethnics;” that just makes you another racist white person!

R117 and R125

I once ran across an older couple on the ferry to Nantucket. They had some sort of catalogs with them, but from their appearance. I thought perhaps they were sales people who couldn't afford to retire. During the course of a conversation with them I came to realize who the guy was - a stratospherically rich fellow. Those catalogs were likely precious artwork they were considering buying.

[quote] Somehow I don't think they're reading you here on DL, so don't lose any sleep over that one.

I trust not, R145...a true WASP would only read one's name in the newspaper on the following occasions: the announcements of one's birth, one's engagement, one's wedding, and one's death!

R147, and that’s the thing about them. They don’t WANT people to think they’re wealthy. They’re wearing old sweaters which have been mended, and frayed khakis and driving old cars. As someone else said, they like it that way.

I think of Warren Buffett as King of the WASPs.

Nothing to prove. It’s an attitude I learned going to school with old money WASPs. By adopting it, everyone assumed I was from wealth even though I’m the child of dirt poor European immigrants. Has been a key part of my career success.

It's that R149, that they don't want to appear conspicuous, but also that they can be very frugal in their way, in inverse relationship to the wealth. If you don't have to wear fancy clothes to impress, why not wear the same old threads until they completely give up the ghost? A woman has no compunction about being seen in the same old dress at six different parties over the summer because that's her summer party dress. Why does she need better. Her husband, if he hasn't become a great big large man (which isn't terribly WASPy) may insist on wearing the same tuxedo that he got married in, fifty years ago, now a frayed at the cuffs and the lining replaced four times. There's the idea that things last because old money hold onto things. Their old furniture was good when their ancestors bought it in the 18th Century (they have the bills of sale in a box upstairs) and it's held its value. They will advise young married people to never buy new what they can buy old in the way of household furnishings. They will buy a new car that's a year old with low mileage, happy to have saved themselves $1000s of dollars in instant depreciation. Many are not very accustomed to spending on things because they don't have to, and if their dead father had a suit that fits them that they like well enough, why not, and save the trouble and expense of buying new. They spend money on schools and club memberships and charitable contributions and travel and booze and food, but they have no need to impress anyone and so they don't.

And when they travel, they rarely stay at hotels. If it's a short trip alone to the city they will stay at a club to which they are a member or enjoy reciprocity. For leisure trips they rely on a network family and friends who aren't using their summer house but for two weeks this summer, or friends with guest houses and guest wings. Again, how very economical not to have to spend money when you have so much of it.

For people saying race has nothing to do with it... You are aware of what the W,A and S in WASP stand for right?

many, and indeed, they are as stiff-jawed as their parodies suggest

Kinda like Mathew Perry's parents in that movie "Fools Rush In."

They scream wasp.

I’m an early GenXer with one very good friend who is a late Boomer old money WASP. We are both NYC natives but I grew up outer boro white-adjacent & he grew up in a 5th ave triplex with a view of the park.

He is smart, kind and interesting and has never made me feel less-than because of our vastly different circumstances. I sometimes get invited to help fill one of his 10k charity dinner tables, and I know he appreciates the times I reach for the check, because others who know his family background always expect him to pay.

True to form he’s not the most demonstrative friend I have, but when I really need him as a friend he has always been there for me. He is a wonderful guy.

[quote] He is smart, kind and interesting and has never made me feel less-than because of our vastly different circumstances.

We’re talking about people whose genocidal maniac ancestors (trash in Europe) acquired a nation and wealth through thievery, exploitation and murder. We’re talking about parasites who passed their ill gotten wealth on to their descendants. That old money wealth is the result of the exploitation of your poor ancestors. Yet these people are praised and treated as some sort of superior beings. And you folks are just so thankful that they allow you to be in their presence and it’s just so wonderful that some of them descent human beings. As if they have any reason not to be. When you’re born into privilege (acquired through parasitic exploitation of the majority). The least you could do is be polite to all of your little fans.

Worship of wealthy and wealthy people is why a tiny percentage of extremely wealthy people are able to control the entire nation. It is why, despite living in the richest nation in the world, Americans have a shitty quality of life.

Americans worship and praise the wealthy people who created and who perpetuate everything that average Americans hate about this country. Then they turn around and blame the poor; they blame nonwhites; they blame immigrants for what the wealthy whom they worship have caused. It’s a ridiculous cycle that Americans are determined to continue repeating.

Having said that. I’m so happy for you. I’m so happy that your magical wasp unicorn friend allows you to breathe the same air that he does. I’m happy that he pats you on your head and occasionally throws you a bone.

POCs are so resentful.

I can't say I've met any, but when I was holidaying in the USA I had a weird double take with them. I'd been travelling around for a month when I landed in The White Mountains in New Hampshire. I found myself surrounded by these slim, aloof anglos, dressed in conservative monochrome, with ramrod straight backs. It was so striking how different they were to your typical Americans I was wondering what part of Scandinavia they were from until I heard them talk...that's when the lightbulb went off, "OH they're WASPS, they really do exist outside of movies and TV"

My grandparents both sides. I’m very happy living off the trust funds they established.

It's a world of ticking clocks.

Be a love and freshen our drinks for the next dozen posts.

R15, clear out

Some people only have revolution on their minds. A dream of violent overthrow is the wind beneath their wings. What glory awaits.

Grew up with some in CT. Super polite, kind to people from all walks of life and extremely private and usually frugal

They were here first and originally owned the land. They are real Americans vs immigrants who really ought not have been allowed. They considered the Irish as black people. They have bad teeth and DNA because the weak did not get weeded out through starvation competition etc. They also don't have many kids. Pretty pathetic group now. Prince Harry married 38 yr old black woman.

R166

[quote] They were here first and originally owned the land.

You mean the native Americans?

Europe needs to be returned to the Neanderthals! Homosapiens sent back to Africa!

Our dna probably came from one of the shittier, less interesting comets, r168.

It’s theater that makes me covet lead crystal and brass/glass etageres.

The hate-all-WASPS-because-of-slavery poster seems to forget that A) there was a Civil War fought over slavery and the people spearheading the fight to end it were, by and large, WASPS and they opposed slavery for moral reasons, B) the slave trade evolved in Africa and the Middle East. The Mali Empire was the richest in the world at one point--and the basis of that wealth was the slave trade, C) the slave trade in the United States actually ended early in the 19th century before most places and was only a small percentage of the slave trade (around 5 percent). The bulk of the mid-Atlantic slave trade was to Brazil and the Caribbean and D) Slavery continues in the Middle East and Africa. Approximately 5 percent of the Malawi population are slaves.

Slavery is an old, old institution and not at all unique to European colonists. Native American civilizations had slaves as well.

It's really time people grew up just a little bit when discussing history. Basically, lots of people have treated lots of other people very badly. It's not unique to people with a particular level of melanin in their skin.

I'm a WASP, but not one of the glamorous monied ones, but the family lineage goes back to Plymouth Colony. Plenty of us around; we're not dying out, we're just a smaller share of the population than we used to be. The fetishization of us is just weird. You meet us non-old-money types all the time and the monied ones more than you think.

Aren't they just the descendants of European peasantry like all other Americans?

Of course! Old pappy Mellon was a tinsmith when he hit these shores.

[quote] The hate-all-WASPS-because-of-slav - ery poster seems to forget that A) there was a Civil War fought over slavery and the people spearheading the fight to end it were, by and large, WASPS and they opposed slavery for moral reasons, B) the slave trade evolved in Africa and the Middle East. The Mali Empire was the richest in the world at one point--and the basis of that wealth was the slave trade, C) the slave trade in the United States actually ended early in the 19th century before most places and was only a small percentage of the slave trade (around 5 percent). The bulk of the mid-Atlantic slave trade was to Brazil and the Caribbean and D) Slavery continues in the Middle East and Africa. Approximately 5 percent of the Malawi population are slaves. Slavery is an old, old institution and not at all unique to European colonists. Native American civilizations had slaves as well.

Again:

We’re talking about people whose genocidal maniac ancestors (trash in Europe) acquired a nation and wealth through thievery, exploitation and murder. We’re talking about parasites who passed their ill gotten wealth on to their descendants. That old money wealth is the result of the exploitation of your poor ancestors. Yet these people are praised and treated as some sort of superior beings. And you folks are just so thankful that they allow you to be in their presence and it’s just so wonderful that some of them descent human beings. As if they have any reason not to be. When you’re born into privilege (acquired through parasitic exploitation of the majority). The least you could do is be polite to all of your little fans.

Worship of wealthy and wealthy people is why a tiny percentage of extremely wealthy people are able to control the entire nation. It is why, despite living in the richest nation in the world, Americans have a shitty quality of life.

Americans worship and praise the wealthy people who created and who perpetuate everything that average Americans hate about this country. Then they turn around and blame the poor; they blame nonwhites; they blame immigrants for what the wealthy whom they worship have caused. It’s a ridiculous cycle that Americans are determined to continue repeating.

Irish at that.

LOL, those social science degrees.

R173, beautiful summary

R173, and, again, that did not apply to everyone who is defined as a WASP. You can, if you want to play the colonial game, much worse behavior south of the border through Central and South America--more slavery, more abuse of the indigenous population, no one even trying to push back (no Civil War in Brazil).

The British will make a big point of pointing out that they banned slavery in Britain early on--though, of course, they were helping the Confederacy cuz, hey, cotton.

The abolitionists were mostly WASPs. So were most white people (not all) in the U.S. at the time. Some had money. Some retained that money. I already said that the fetishization of WASPs is weird. Your demonization of them is also an issue. They were people who did work hard, but were also in the right place at the right time--for them.

However, the U.S. was striking in its ability to build a large middle class with a lot of land owners early on. This was different from Europe and is more a reflection of the New England Puritans (who were largely middle-class in origin) than the slave-owning southerners (who really were the younger sons of aristocrats and gentry).

History isn't that simple.

I offered to change seats on a flight with one old dear so she could fit next to her friend.

She offered to put me through law school...NSA🤔

[quote] [R173], and, again, that did not apply to everyone who is defined as a WASP. You can, if you want to play the colonial game, much worse behavior south of the border through Central and South America--more slavery, more abuse of the indigenous population, no one even trying to push back (no Civil War in Brazil).

You continue rambling on about African slavery. Which I didn’t specifically mention and in order to gain great wealth, wasps exploited everyone, including your poor ancestors. Referencing equal or greater exploitation in Brazil or Timbuktu or the moon doesn’t clean that up. It doesn’t justify the exploitation. It doesn’t justify continuing to spin this ridiculous mythology nor continuing thus absurd praise and worship of the rich.

I built libraries all over the world with my filthy lucre. My iron and steel built America. We had some rough spots with the labor but it worked out in the end.

Bullshit.

I'm Aggie (even my chauffeur, Robert, is allowed to call me that) Gund and I'll have you know I'm down to my last 100 million.

Aggie's certain to have several hundreds of millions in art. She won't be missing any dinners anytime soon.

Could you guys recommend some movies or books about old money WASP?

The anti-WASP troll is annoying. Cut the marxist bullshit, some people are wealthy because of inovation and creativity, not because of exploitation. I bet this troll believes that every single succesful country in the world, from Germany to Japan, is prosperous because they exploited the natural resourses of other countries. Grow up, marxist fool.

[quote] Could you guys recommend some movies or books about old money WASP?

Dominique Dunne’s Power & Privilege tv series. All about WASPs return to their roots and embracing their heritage.

I’m a card carrying WASP. R60 and others are full of nonsense. WASPs are rich, old and new money, poor and everything in between. They are not necessarily liberal at all, nor particularly sophisticated. They are a bit bottled up- but less so now. Mostly they are a pretty heterogeneous collection of Americans defined really mostly by their Protestant and Anglo Saxon heritage- no more or less. And they certainly are not better than any other defined group of humans in thecUS.

R184 Whit Stillman’s “Metropolitan” is a great introduction to WASP society.

The Great Gatsby

[quote] The anti-WASP troll is annoying. Cut the marxist bullshit, some people are wealthy because of inovation and creativity, not because of exploitation. I bet this troll believes that every single succesful country in the world, from Germany to Japan, is prosperous because they exploited the natural resourses of other countries. Grow up, marxist fool.

There’s nothing grown up about continuing to spin this idiotic mythology, regarding wealth. Praising and worship people who stole and exploited for your destitute ancestors and who created systems to keep you equally under their thumb, for what? They robbed your ancestors and you of a fabulous life so now you gleefully celebrate your attempts to live vicariously through theirs. Thanking and praising them for doing so. Have you no self respect? Have you no common sense?

R157 / R190 - R156 here - I'm not worshiping his background or calling him a magical unicorn fairy god - just stating that despite our vastly different family backgrounds (which neither of us had any control over) he and I are good friends. Unlike the stereotype (which is what OP was asking about) he's not a snob, nor am I a reverse-snob. We're just two grown-ups who don't judge each other by our pedigree or respective bank accounts. If that sends you into fits of apoplexy and makes me a mindless sycophant than so be it.

The idea that "Old Money WASPS" got their wealth through "innovation" or though any individual qualities of character is laughable. The definition of "old money" is that it's inhereted. How fucking stupid are you people?

The ones I've known are virulently anti-semitic, introducing that theme casually, and anti-gay too, especially the women, cause their husbands frequent the Townhouse and the East Side Club when they're out in the Hamptons. They also tend to be cheap.

R183 Think Aggie's swollen feet and legs will give out before her $$$$$.

Most wasps live off of ill gotten gains.

Practically all WASPs live off the money they make at their jobs- or their retirement benefits and social security.

[quote] and anti-gay too, especially the women

The first time a woman went out of her way to let me know I was a waste? Brokerage airhead who grew up summering with all the brokers. Ugly as fuck.

I dated a direct descendant of Miles Standish, the Captain of the Mayflower, you don’t get more WASPy than that. According to historical accounts, Miles was a big asshole. So was his great, great x 13 granddaughter.

R198 I have some blankets to sell you.

She served me Chicken ala King. Truly.

I looked at R25's link and sniffed around that blog a bit.

This discussion sounds like a DL discussion!

New Englander here and everybody and their mother wears LL Bean. Their clothes last for years and years, great quality.

WASPs are not particularly homophobic. Younger ones are generally quite well-mannered, Although, there are some who I would describe as snowflakes.

We were upper-middle-class, but not of the high echelon type. However, my mother tells the story that she was astounded at a funeral to find herself seated next to Brooke Astor. There were some Catholics, and a German Jewish girl, in my class at a relatively exclusive private grade school. They were not singled out particularly as being "different".

We attended dancing school in junior high, I believe one evening a month after school. It was held in a single-family home, run by an elderly widow and her daughter and son-in-law. There were kids from three or four schools there; the boys wore suits and waited around downstairs in the basement until the class was ready to start, while the girls changed from their school uniforms into dresses upstairs.

I've never had chicken a la King, but my father said it was popular when he was a kid. Is if similar to moo goo gai pan (not a fan)?

My mother thinks Paul Fusell's book "Class" hit WASP culture fairly well. I haven't read "The Big House" by George Colt Howe, but from my parents' liking it I'd say if should be fairly accurate of WASP families; I just didn't get into it as I'm not a fan of multi-generational sagas.

I only buy jeans from L.L.Bean, as well as my current man-purse.

R32 & R185 love you bith! Let's meet for drinks, shall we?

R157 - how do you really feel

R179, You know nothing about my ancestry, so you're assuming a lot when you say my ancestors were exploited. They weren't. They were among the many, many immigrants who were able to become landowners in North America, something not nearly as possible in Europe. The U.S. (and American colonies) really was the land of opportunity for a lot of European immigrants; the class mobility at various points is truly remarkable--i.e. the son of an illiterate day laborer ended up as an army colonel; land grants meant an infantry soldier could and did become a prosperous farmer.

As I said, your view of history is rather simple.

The only thing my WASP ancestors exploited was the liquor cart.

Waspy older ladies are a hoot!

WASPs don't see themselves as ethnic. Everyone else who is different in some way is "ethnic," but not them. They are just default people.

I’m looking to acquire jewellery and a watch that look ‘old money’, for a part I’m playing in a friend’s production. Could someone be a love and post some visual examples of such, to guide my costume hunt?

I could also use some shoes or boots that would pass for OM. I’m a young-ish lipgloss lesbian with a curvy build, if it helps.

R210. Pearls always work, a Cartier tank watch. For shoes sensible flats, like Pappagallo’s, or espadrilles in the Summer, Wellington boots, for Winter wear.

WASPS use bullshit phrases like "impeccable breeding" when talking about people descended from rich old families on both sides, not understanding that you can breed animals but not humans.

R212, oh, shut your non-degraded chin.

*disintegrating, not degraded, my apologies!!!

Was Campbells tomato soup really an old favorite with WASPs?

The true old money ones I know are like British aristos - the obsession with horse breeding is almost disturbing. It’s considered a legitimate “career”. The basis in their own classism and racism is an irony that seems lost on them. They are dying off but are as close to British upper class as we get.

R210 No earrings! They're considered common.

R202, I think L.L. Bean’s quality has gone downhill. After being burned with a few recent purchases, I’m done. Now I just get it at thrift shops. Even the vintage stuff secondhand is better than new. Hmmph.

We are not receiving.

Who are those two stern-faced dragon ladies?

[quote]WASPS use bullshit phrases like "impeccable breeding" when talking about people descended from rich old families on both sides, not understanding that you can breed animals but not humans.

I've never heard a WASP wax on about such a thing, not even dog and horse people talking about dogs and horses. Orchids, yes.

Knew this one.

Wasps today are very diverse in how they look and carry themselves.

Believe it or not, Kendall and Kylie Jenner are both wasps. Their ancestry is English, Dutch, Irish, and I believe Scottish and French.

So I guess their at least wasp adjacent.

I always thought Kris Jenner was Armenian. Now that’s a shocker. Both looks and personality scream Armenian to me. Maybe she was the product of an affair.

Kris Jenner is Irish, Dutch, and English. The rest they get from their father, "Caitlyn."

She just happens to have a darker skin complexion. I guess that's the Dutch ancestry.

I’m not buying that.

R224 wasps are British. The Kardashians are the polar opposite of wasp. The further you are from wasp the more foreign you are.

With all the work she's had done, Kris Jenner looks Filipina.

R229 I said the Jenner sisters. Not the Kardashians.

They have different fathers. Kris and Bruce are of English and surrounding UK nationalities which many still consider to be Waspish.

English, French, Scottish, German, Irish, Dutch etc.

It's about looking the part at least.

Plus Kendall has always been into horses. So there's that.

Yeah, we met the WASPs. Fuck them.

Yeah, fuck them.

Agreed.

I wish I knew a WASP.

Darfur Orphan, and I mean this in a caring way, but LIGHTEN UP, DUDE! You're on here all the time complaining you're starving, yet you've got all this time and energy to complain. So which is it?

TBH, I think you need to write a gratitude list.

r105, Arlene Francis was an Armenian-American. That's not WASP at all.

The Jenner girls (Jenner family) might be WASPs technically, but they don’t act like it, and they’re not Old Money.

There are trailer parks full of people who are White Anglo Saxon Protestants.

WASP has an implication of upper-middle-class as a minimum requirement.

Thank you, R236. Is gratitude list a kind of WASP? I will write him!

[quote]not understanding that you can breed animals but not humans.

please don't tell the twinks

Many New England WASPs became rich from the slave trade.

They were also the Abolitionists

They became rich from industry r242. Who do you think made all the money from the many mill and factory towns in NE?

All Wasp families who made money and still have money from the slave trade, should have a class action lawsuit filed against them.

That goes for all American corporations whose founding was with slave labor.

The descendants deserve what belongs to them. I wonder if that's even possible?

I gave up a HONEY of an old school wasp, and all you bitches can talk about are the Kartrashians!?!?

All that slave trade money disappeared generations ago. I don't think you understand how generational wealth works.

R246 But the corporations that were founded with slave labor, could be called into discussions.

Wallstreet in NYC was the street that slaves were sold on during slavery. Please check history.

Wallstreet has a lot of blood on its hands.

I think that’s too much of a mutty mix to include the Jenners. And Irish is usually a very hard no. Perhaps some Northern Protestant, but that’s really just Scots.

P is for Protestant, basically people who have more than a passing familiarity with church-going. The Kardashians are out on that count as well, if the last name wasn’t bad enough.

[quote]Wallstreet in NYC was the street that slaves were sold on during slavery. Please check history.

And then slavery was over and no more slaves were sold. And the people who were responsible have been dead for about six or seven generations now. Move the fuck on.

And you wonder why Asians, Indians and Hispanics are more successful. They don't wallow in the past and play victim for things that happened ages ago.

The bill was paid and we have the receipts.

R249, Kris Jenner owns a church.

Not even kidding.

My boss is old money WASP. In her home office, she has framed, original land grant decrees signed by James I for property in what is now Virginia and Maryland chartered to her ancestors. That's old fucking money. She's in her 70's, has a PhD from Bryn Mawr, is Episcopalian, and is extremely well off. Every American would recognize her unique maiden name. She is one of the sharpest people I have ever known. I used to wonder why she works at all. I came to the conclusion that she has managed to keep her professional and personal lives separate, devotes herself tirelessly to both, and believes that she still has something useful to offer.

As a first-generation college graduate (I went on to earn a PhD), I was intimidated by her at first. She is American blue-blood and I am hillbilly adjacent white trash.

I will never forget one time we were shooting the shit in her office waiting for a colleague to arrive. I mentioned that I was picking up a new car that evening and she asked if I were leasing or buying. I said "buying," and that I managed to get a great interest rate on the loan. Without pause, she said, "One should not finance depreciating assets." Then she immediately apologized for being insensitive. Haha. Gotta love the blasé attitude to money.

[quote] [R179], You know nothing about my ancestry, so you're assuming a lot when you say my ancestors were exploited. They weren't. They were among the many, many immigrants who were able to become landowners in North America, something not nearly as possible in Europe. The U.S. (and American colonies) really was the land of opportunity for a lot of European immigrants; the class mobility at various points is truly remarkable--i.e. the son of an illiterate day laborer ended up as an army colonel; land grants meant an infantry soldier could and did become a prosperous farmer. As I said, your view of history is rather simple

Says the man who continues to confuse absurd mythology with historical fact.

At no point have I argued that this country did not offer opportunities to your impoverished ancestors. This country still offers opportunities that are not available in many other places. However, upward mobility is also greater in many other countries. Upward mobility in the United States is about the same as it’s always been, and unfortunately it was never that great. Having said that. The accumulation of great wealth is usually the result of some form of exploitation. The rich have always exploited those who had less than them and they continue to do so. They make the rules. The old money WASP created a society that first and disproportionately benefitted them. They got rich and then wrote laws to keep your poor ancestors under thumb. We currently have great wealth inequality in this country. A small percentage of people control the majority of the wealth. We’ve entered a new Gilded Age. That same small percentage of people control the wealth and they control the nation. While silly people like you continue to recite your absurd mythology and praise and worship the wealthy for throwing you crumbs.

You and the others here are why this cycle will continue and ultimately destroy this country.

[quote] [R179], You know nothing about my ancestry, so you're assuming a lot when you say my ancestors were exploited. They weren't. They were among the many, many immigrants who were able to become landowners in North America, something not nearly as possible in Europe. The U.S. (and American colonies) really was the land of opportunity for a lot of European immigrants; the class mobility at various points is truly remarkable--i.e. the son of an illiterate day laborer ended up as an army colonel; land grants meant an infantry soldier could and did become a prosperous farmer. As I said, your view of history is rather simple.

Says the man who continues to confuse absurd mythology with historical fact.

At no point have I argued that this country did not offer opportunities to your impoverished ancestors. This country still offers opportunities that are not available in many other places. However, upward mobility is also greater in many other countries. Upward mobility in the United States is about the same as it’s always been, and unfortunately it was never that great. Having said that. The accumulation of great wealth is usually the result of some form of exploitation. The rich have always exploited those who had less than them and they continue to do so. They make the rules. The old money WASP created a society the benefitted them first and foremost. They got rich and then wrote laws to keep your poor ancestors under thumb. We currently have great wealth inequality in this country. A small percentage of people control the majority of the wealth. We’ve entered a new Guilded Age. That same small percentage of people control the wealth and they control the nation. While silly people like you continue to recite your absurd mythology and praise and worship the wealthy for throwing you crumbs.

You and many of the others here are why this cycle will continue, eventually destroying this country.

The problem with r60 is that he is rooted in 1980.

[quote]No. Sure, they are better than Kennedys, but who isn’t?

Up yours !

R250 The facts remain bitch.

And r258 the rest of the world moved on and let bygones be bygones. Wallow in the past, and you're going to live in it.

R259 And history remains, Bitch.

[quote]P is for Protestant, basically people who have more than a passing familiarity with church-going.

No, P is for "not Catholic".

Who really gives a shit, man? Ya know? It's all bullshit based on ego and self aggrandizement. Someone always needs to feel "better" than the next guy based on whatever they can grasp to covet to that specific end. WASPs among themselves probably have it all whittled down to "Yeah, but my most relevant ancestor disembarked from the Mayflower and set foot on Plymouth Rock before yours did (though they were on the same ship)."

Who cares? Only the people they can convince that it's worth caring about.

I done see the intentions of this thread as “caring about” or “worshipping” Old Money WASPS - it’s just interested in DL discussing them as a defined & sometimes odd subculture - the same way we endlessly DL dissect my white-adjacent Italian American subculture, or ODAAT reruns. And for the purposes of this thread WASP doesn’t refer to any or even most White Protestant Americans of English stock - it refers to the really really rich ones, and the curious way they live.

"One should never finance a depreciating ass"

Theres no such thing as blue bloods either. The shit that comes out of their ass is just as nasty and smelly as the homeless people down the street.

Fantasies these people live in.

R255, class mobility shifts at various points. Are you really going to say that the post WWII economic boom and access to college for a much larger percentage of the population had no effect on class mobility?

Or that the stagnation of wages for workers that began in the 1970s did not have a negative effect on class mobility? Or the spiraling cost of college tuition in the aughts?

I know you need to think all rich people got there through total exploitation of workers, but the situation is more complex than that. I know a guy who made millions because he compiled an early legal database of classical recordings. No exploitation, just being quick on the mark in the right niche. Sometimes people are making the right thing at the right time and are able to exploit the opportunity.

One of the things that often gets omitted in the discussion of slavery is that it wasn't all that efficient a means of production. The slave states were poor compared to their northern neighbors.

Threadbare oriental rugs that have been passed down. Summer houses on the Cape that were never winterized. Main house in Darien and barely use heat in the winter. Stiff upper lip pragmatism that flirts with asceticism. One pair of good dress shoes that will be reheeled. Always so goddamn active on the weekends. Does not binge watch.

Boarding school is a given. Milton, Hotchkiss, Deerfield. If you weren't a fuckup you went to Harvard since you're a second generation legacy. If you were a fuckup you went to Brown.

None of the WASPs I know in Darien who are of my generation are as r267 describes.

Live on UES of Manhattan, NYC thus am surrounded by old money WASP persons. In fact used to bump into poster child for that set Dick Cavett (even though he isn't, well the old money part anyway) all the time. Building he lived in was recently sold as part of several for redevelopment into luxury condos. Am sure DC did well for himself in terms of buyout offer.

"The Ice Storm" captures them very well.

Wasp Men have borderline acceptable anal hygiene, rarely wear socks, and have threadbare baggy Brooks Brothers Boxer shorts.

R269 I’m mostly describing boomer WASPs. How old are you?

[quote]"The Ice Storm" captures them very well.

Middle class WASPs, yes; not old money WASPs.

[quote] In fact used to bump into poster child for that set Dick Cavett (even though he isn't, well the old money part anyway)

why the hell would cavett be a poster child for Old Money Wasp? The was born in fucking nebraska and his parents were schoolteachers

[quote]I’m mostly describing boomer WASPs. How old are you?

Mid-forties, and even the Boomer WASPs I know aren't like you describe. They have some traits, but they're more like everyone else.

Old money WASPs

Doonesbury's "Lacey Davenport" based on the real NJ republican congresswoman, millicent fenwick, was a classic OMW

We need more examples of real Wasps Like, Deeda Blair

I found one r279!

I found one r279!

Here's another one

Future First Lady Diana Taylor

R275

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are just that, though commonly assumed to be wealthy not all are nor were historically either.

If you asked persons for someone in media they belived best suited WASP you'd find Thurston Howell, III and Dick Cavett pretty much right up there on that list.

Despite where his family ended up after emigrating to USA, Mr. Cavett's background is about as Anglo-Saxon as one can get (English, Scottish, bit of Irish and German).

He's the sort of man who buys his own furniture!

pearls dear, always pearls

If only all WASP men could like like Trey MacDougal

Did somebody mention my name?

Nearly every industry or career once dominated by WASPs (old money or otherwise) is now largely controlled by Jews or others, which must really be galling.

Pick one; publishing, banking/finance, advertising, US Department of State, and in many parts of country the professions such as law and medicine.

Politics is a mixed bag; by early 19th century if not before in many areas by sheer numbers Irish and Italians began pushing WASPs out of elected office and putting in their own.

City of New York got their last WASP mayor in form of John Lindsay, a man who the cards were stacked against from the start, but he did his best for all the thanks he got then and still now.

Wasn't around then but for my money late John Lindsay was easily one of if not the best looking mayor NYC ever had.

check your facts, Vidal was not an Old Money Wasp, and was actually only half wasp

Vidal's father was born in 1895 in Madison, South Dakota, the son of Margaret Ann (née Rewalt) and Felix Luther Vidal. His paternal grandfather, Eugen Fidel Vidal, was born in Feldkirch, Austria, of Romansh descent, and his paternal grandmother, Emma Hartmann, was Swiss.[6]

His mother's family was from TX/OK and his grandfather was a Senator, but they didn't have a lot of money. After divorcing Vidal's father, who was not rich, his mother married rich men, including Jackie Kennedy's stepfather

Maybe it is how OP phrased his query, but it must be said there is then and now plenty of persons of WASP background who are not "old money" or whatever.

Being White Angelo-Saxon Protestant was never about huge fortunes per se; though many did manage to do so. But rather a set of values based around what would be called "Protestant work ethic" if anything.

It is PWE that shapes large parts of traits attributed (rightly or wrongly) to WASPs including abhorrence to taxation (especially death/estate), welfare, economic/wealth redistribution

and the wannabes who never could get in

R60 here, just because. My post was observational, not commendatory. I know people have trouble reading but I didn't edit down, correct or work towards a low-enough readability score to meet needs. Just a post. R66 exemplifies both the gleefulness of misreading and aimless "trumping" at the DL at large. Most of us seem to want to be the holes in the cheese and act proud of it.

BUT another important point about what was supposed to be the subject of this thread is that the old-money people have, as is seen elsewhere, relied on smart marriages to keep things going. Families differ, of course, and there's a certain kind of diversity of views, political stances, desire to make a positive difference, generational trauma and the rest. But to keep going seems to be the primary motive. To maintain what "we" have first, to build on it if possible, and to live well. The kids rebel. But few walk away forever. There's something about those trusts and legacies and family foundations and schools (For God's sake the right schools are a given.) that keeps the planets in orbit even though they may think they're adventurers. (Don't ask me what the star they're circling is - the metaphor is a throwaway and why should I have more responsibility for my language than the prevaricators here?)

"Doing good" and "making a difference" are options for "living well." Some choose other paths. The point is when we have the resources and security to do what we want, what matters becomes almost comically transparent.

As I said, I pass. I am no longer a walker for a woman whose husband is away or widows, or the convenient single man to fill a table. (Yes, the last vestiges still arrange the table precisely by rank, seniority and sex, and the conversation "turns" from right to left as the hostess guides.) But I'm still working with foundation and organization boards, and show up for events. And just today I was asked by a woman attorney from an old family if she was having trouble ordering an African American non-profit staff person what to do for a gala because of the staff person's "culture." I said "No, it's your culture that's the issue in this case." And she took it as a compliment.

Inadvertent, sometimes unintentional, arrogance is ubiquitous.

PS

R68, if you have to sit on a waiting list for a club you have the wrong sponsor(s) or you don't belong there.

Meaning, if you're treated like an outsider, you're an outsider. It's Masonry without the need for the revelatory handshake. And some people don't understand that they are "pre-cut."

R293

Ironically Robert and Blaine Trump had far more success on that front than "the Donald". But of course they were willing to roll up their sleeves, get involved, write checks, etc... Donald Trump OTOH has always been a tightfisted son of a bitch who wouldn't give a penny to anything that didn't benefit him directly some how or way. Even that school or whatever non-profit he set up was a huge fraud but then again it would knowing DT.

Even late Brooke Astor gave up (not for want of trying) to get DT to part with his money for any sort of charitable cause. Oh he and Ivana would attend all those gala charity balls (and have their pictures in various media as proof), but DT kept his wallet tightly shut.

Trump Pavilion at Queen's Hospital came from Donald's mother, who in many ways was just as tightfisted as the son, but unlike him gave back to the community.

perhaps trump never gave money, because he didn't really have any, until he started laundering from the russians through deutsche bank

he's always been a shyster and and a con man, separating fools (and criminals) from their money.

Old adage about being nice to people because you never know where they will be in future is no more appropriate than with DT.

New York and society elsewhere long considered Donald Trump crude, vulgar and grasping. Now he's POTUS and if you don't think there isn't some forced kissing of that proverbial ring, think again. Yes, his tax "cut" favored the wealthy, but he also screwed that same class of northeast states with SALT tax deduction scheme.

R157 BRAVO!

I love these WASP/Old money threads, the highfalutin queens always chime in & kick the flying shit out of each other.

Who was more WASPy, Katharine Hepburn or Bette Davis?

R301, Katharine Hepburn, no question. Bette Davis was New England, but she didn't have the education and connections that Hepburn had.

R292, that article gets it wrong. White Catholics aren't WASPs and legacy admissions aren't all going to WASPs. A lot of the legacy admits at Yale, for example, are Jewish. Ironically, Yale which was uber-WASPy historically, was one of the most Jewish Ivies--up at 20 percent--though the percentage of Jews at Ivies has been slipping thanks to the increased competition Asian-Americans. I'd say the one way that WASPs and WASP-adjacents may still have an edge at the Ivies is through athletics--specifically sports associated with prep schools and take money.

But at this point, generic Christian-ish whites are underrepresented at most of the elite schools compared to percentage of the population--at least in the northeast. They continue to be a strong presence in the South.

I know she isn't old money, I think? But Reese Witherspoon screams wasp to me. Even her company is very waspy.

Draper James I believe it's called.

R303, she’s very very Southern, a little wide of the mark. Probably a touch Ulster Scot hillbilly in her big chinned blood.

But she’s selling a frau, high-market-Walmart version of it.

Never forget Talulah Bankhead, Gore Vidal, Cole Porter, Humphrey Bogart.....

The Young Philadelphians is a great explanation of the distinction between WASP and white Catholic. Seems irrelevant today but in 1959 seemed as important as black vs white today. Also a good movie with a stunning Paul Newman.

Yes, I met one of the heiresses to the green giant canning company. I believe they sold the Manufacturing side of the company, but they kept all the corporate farms. She was very nice. She married a very good looking surgeon.

Does wasp apply to Brits as well? Or is it just an American term?

I Love this post!! I am "Philly lower-middle class White Trash" I watched these WASPS go from "Masters of the Universe" to fighting over Grandfathers cufflinks. As a Stockbroker-Financial Investment Banker, I watched these peoples Monies slip away due to bad financial Planning. Slave/ SugarMonies does not last forever. I bought one of THEIR homes on Fisher Island(5 huge bedroom-fully furnished, Library that looks like the one from Dynasty) ...the MONEY ran out-they all Died!. I have soooooo many stories from these peoples.

To (R306) I totally agree with you about the movie"The Young Philadelphians" It represents "RICH WASPS PHILADELPHIANS SOCIETY" AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE 1950'S. Philly Society is DEAD now!!

R308

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant is purely an American invention. It would be largely redundant IMHO for a nation like GB which historically was made up of persons Anglo-Saxon descent, and after Henry VIII of Protestant faith.

Ironically term is sometimes used in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand..

Would Protestant Germans be considered WASPS? What about Scandanavians?

"Purely"

..."largely" redundant

"IMHO"

"Ironically term is"

Etc.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear.

R267 It's not nearly threadbare, but my mother has an oriental rug in the living room of her not winterized summer house on Nantucket. Lacey Davenport was our Congresswoman in NJ.

Though Jackie went to Miss Porter's School, most Wasps did not consider the Kennedy family to be any more like them than an Irish servant girl - not even adjacent.

No to Scandinavians, while WASPy Germans were OK.

Funny that Scandanavians are not considered WASPs. What today are the Danish actually WERE the Anglo-Saxons. Angles in the north and Saxons in the south of Denmark.

R314

Like their British cousins American WASPs had barely to nil use for Irish. Old elite "WASPs" or whatever you want to call them of Boston and other parts of American society considered Joe Kennedy and his family barely above shanty lace curtain Irish.

This of course drove Joe Kennedy mad no end, and was largely behind push to make his clan not only socially acceptable but powerful as well. Fact that in some quarters of American society the Kennedy clan are considered American royalty shows just how far Joe Kennedy succeeded.

Daddy Kennedy paid Jackie Bouvier Kennedy a pretty penny to keep her from bolting away from her philandering (and often insensitive) husband JFK. She was the secret weapon in Joe Kennedy's plan to get and keep his son in the WH, and by extension put the Kennedy clan over.

Yes, JB was Catholic, but of French background which beat the Kennedy Irish. JB was also all kinds of chic that none of Kennedy women could hope to match.

[quote] Please check history.

I'll try, 'What would be the most pretentious and vague thing to ever say on a gossip forum?,' Alex.

[quote] If you asked persons for someone in media they belived best suited WASP you'd find Thurston Howell, III and Dick Cavett pretty much right up there on that list.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

R315

It is even more funny that Anglo-Norman descent is more prized in much of GB than Anglo-Saxon. It explains why names with nobiliary particle (de) are held in high esteem. This along with all those English names with French pronunciation.

This has been stuff of English/British comedy going back ages. It explains social farce such as Keeping Up Appearances where the grasping and climbing Hyacinth Bucket insists her name is pronounced "Bouquet"

The Normans are commonly thought of as French, but they were also originally Scandinavian.

Cavett was WASP but in no way Old Money,

he was born in fucking nebraska and his parents were school teachers

For last time, post didn't state DC had "old money" just that he resembled what most commonly assume such WASPs to be.

R23 She isn't a WASP with a French last name lol... WASPs are of British descent, specifically English

commons may assume that, but no old money wasp would R322

R323

I'm not familiar with the city personally, but get the impression that French Hugenots in Charleston are considered WASPs.

Stuffy and dusty old things. They all live to be 100.

hugeonots in the usa tend toward presbyterianism, so yeah, wasp adjacent

Thomas Ravenel on "Southern Charm" is of French descent, and he considers himself to be Wasp. The last name says it all. That hes French.

Bear in mind that Anglo-Saxon as a cultural term includes Brits with Norman French invader ancestry.

The big issue with WASPs and people like the Kennedys was less about their being Irish than about their being Catholic. Immigrant groups that were also Protestant were much more likely to intermarry. Irish *Protestants* were also acceptable (and usually better off than Irish peasants). Catholics were viewed with suspicion.

As for Scandanavians--it was less about their not being accepted than it was about immigration patterns. Scandanavians pretty much emigrated to the upper Midwest, not New England and they did it in the later part of the 19th century. Germans, on the other hand, immigrated early on (and continued), so lots of American WASPs have a German ancestor mixed in.

Apparently some scandinavians faced discrimination in America. Has anybody ever seen the dark norwegian discussed on this forum?

The WASPocracy died off sometime toward the end of the last century

The MERITocracy took over and where you went to school is far more important than where your ancestors immigrated from.

This is troubling to a great many DLers who desperately hope to be mistaken for midcentury WASPs and have strong opinions on how they treated, say, Jackie Kennedy 80 years ago.

Which would be fascinating in a way if they were recounting it as ancient history, but it seems they feel their gossip is still quite current and reflects the state of the world in 2020

The Kennedys were hell-bent on superseding the WASPs. And that's just what they did in 1960 by becoming numero uno, top dogs of the land.

But are Black Norwegians also Catholic?

Obsessing about things that happened in 1960 in 2020 is like obsessing about things that happened at the start of the Civil War in 1920.

Puts Southern history into perspective.

Hey cunt at R335, stop following me from thread to thread posting after my own posts. You ought to know about obsession.

[quote]Obsessing about things that happened in 1960 in 2020 is like obsessing about things that happened at the start of the Civil War in 1920.

Puts Southern history into perspective.

Today, Feb. 16, 2020, white in pickup trucks bearing confederate flags, park outside polling station in NC in attempt to intimidate blacks voting early

""The past is never dead. It's not even past."

335 and 7 the same

R336 I know exactly how you feel. The Oh, Dear asshole follows me from thread to thread to. I hate that bitch.

They have nothing better to do, then to stock people.

r340 the WORST is that quote troll, who ignoredars posters he doesn't like then pastes their quotes in various threads. Total fucking loser.

James Spader, who has new money instead of old money and all the eccentricity.

Fava beans and Chianti optional, R340?

[quote] James Spader, who has new money instead of old money and all the eccentricity.

Oh, Wasp, Where is Thy Sting[er]?

[quote]Library that looks like the one from Dynasty

This may be the most unintentionally tacky thing I've ever read on DL.

Any ol hoo ha... of course Catholics can't be WASPs, and Joe P was an embarrassment to his kind for his striving. Be a criminal, sure. But an Anglophile?

345 posts, and the important questions have not been asked: do they rinse the pasta or not? That, and do they sauce the pasta in the pan or not? Let's not forget do they call it sauce , or gravy? They don't eat red sauce, do they? Is pasta only for salad with them?

WASPs don't eat pasta, they eat macaroni.

And they can't tell you if it's rinsed, but they could ask Inez or Juancita.

Sabina.

Pass the Cucumber/Mayo sandwiches, Mimi. I'm FAMISHED!

I grew up on Mainline outside Philadelphia, late 1980's, and knew some some of these people. I am Irish/German. I can say they have very good manners, don't like to talk about money, real estate, travel, or success, etc. Just boats, horses, dogs, art, scotch, shit like that. Don't mention what college you went to - ever, or your kids. Private high school is more the signifier. They are also really cheap. It's weird how cheap some of them are. I had a friend who grew up in a mansion - one of the oldest publishing families in the USA - with a huge bird actuary in the middle of his house, all glass, and like OLD SCHOOL servants running around acting all subservient. Once we got burned on a bag of weed, he was out 100 bucks and I was out 100 bucks and he never talked to me again. Years later friends said it was still all he ever talked about. Kinda people that ask you to pitch in for gas, shit like that. I googled him, and he pretends to build log cabin mansions in Montana and Wyoming. Never worked a day in his life. Just buys shit.

You can't really infiltrate their ranks, even if you act like them, and go to a good school, and are rich, because they know each other, and have very specific vetting strategies. I've lived in San Francisco and Connecticut and it's similar, but I think it's dying out over time. Younger people don't care that your Grandfather played football with their Grandfather at Choate Philips Exeter Buttplay Academy.

"Choate Philips Exeter Buttplay Academy'

R351

"You can't really infiltrate their ranks, even if you act like them, and go to a good school, and are rich, because they know each other, and have very specific vetting strategies. "

True, but also applies to similar castes all across Europe. Certain families that for hundreds of years all know each other, marry each other, etc.....

If you attempt to drop a name or something by saying you have an "uncle" or whatever at this or that; they will at once ask "who?" wanting an exact name. Implication being they either know everyone who matters at a certain place, or at least can find out.

As stated in another thread sometime ago, people wanting to know about WASPs ought to watch film "Metropolitan". WASPs aren't purely against letting new or different people into their circle (within limits) per se; one just must be oneself and not attempt to even remotely pretend otherwise.

R346

As someone told Samantha in SATC when the girls went to a party given by Trey's family for his upcoming marriage to Charlotte in her statement "I'm hungry". "these are WASPs, they don't eat, they drink". To which Samantha orders a martini with two olives.

(r153) Is Metropolitan by the director who did Barcelona? Philadelphia is kinda chill compared to more urbane places, and the really rich families would mingle with us commoners, but they were still weird about marriage. I grew up with this other guy, old Philly banking/railroad people, really grounded down to earth, who dated a friend of mine who was really nice, very pretty, but kinda white trash, lower middle class hippy kinda girl, and they were tied at the hip until he graduated college, they got engaged, and his mother just literally said no, he couldn't. He just called her and said "My mom said I can't marry you." Then he went on some round the world trip for a year, came back and married some WASP girl like three months later. Wife is fat now, while the pretty white trash girl is still hot and married to some very wealthy Italian guy.

I grew up between social classes, my family lost all their money when I was like 12, rapid wealth accumulation and then complete loss on gold in the early 80's, so I am acutely aware of socioeconomic status indicators, and you are correct about "the name game". Always thought it was lame, but have a friend from the south, Richmond, and he says the same thing goes on down there.

Watch the documentary on the guy who said he was Rockefeller and the Hamptons embraced him, until some WASP guy "sensed" something was off. Turns out he was later on an episode of Hoarders, and lived in NYC dumpster diving, despite coming from some minor Hollywood royalty. Like someone said, eccentric WASPS can be fascinating.

It’s not what school you went to or what person you know... it’s which school and which person. That is the key: which, not what. For it is a finite group.

R355

Yes, Whit Stillman also did film Barcelona.

Khaki trousers, dark blazer, that haircut, whole package... IMHO this is what older WASP men look.

Speaking of Metropolitan, time to break out that VCR tape (again). Every now and then just love watching "Rick" and hearing his views on world. *LOL*

[quote] with a huge bird actuary in the middle of his house

Oh Dear!

it was so much better at calculating lifespans and his pay was chickenfeed

R28 is a white ethnic with a severe WASP obession/fixation. BTW they can't stand your flashy and loud ways but love your huge cock and clean asshole......

Was there another fake Rockefeller, r355? There was Clark "Rockefeller" who was convicted of an earlier murder after kidnapping his child. He's in prison now.

Doesn't anyone remember Christopher Rockefeller from The French branch of the family? He was a snake oil salesman if there ever was one.

There's always a fake Rockefeller or a fake duPont (or blatently fake "Dupont" twins); they succeed in a way that's practically a playbook for Donald Trump: rush in guns blazing (name dropping), and pick/freeload from the low-hanging fruit (people well outside the circles of who the imposters purport to be; be photographed seated at someone else's place at the charity dinner...

They don't get caught because they never get near enough the circles they claim to be from, instead entertaining or fleecing people who are fast with cash and flashiness but who don't know better, who don't know anything of old money. They don't fool everyone, just enough people to succeed (in appearances) for a while.

I loved Nicole Kidman in The Goldfinch. That's exactly how I imagine old money WASPs are.

People are so insecure these days, just be polite, kind and gracious. That is what people remember most.

[362] Christophe Rocancourt! He was a fake French Rockefeller, and then moved on to Hollywood, and fleeced Mickey Roarke, and others. Clark Rockefeller was the German fake I was talking about, but there was also a French one, quite a few documentaries on Youtube about him, and it's quite funny. It's like Ponzi Schemers, they prey on the ignorant, aspirational, and greedy.

(362) Sorry to repost, I suck at this. Christophe Rocancourt! He was a fake French Rockefeller, and then moved on to Hollywood, and fleeced Mickey Roarke, and others. Clark Rockefeller was the German fake I was talking about, but there was also a French one, quite a few documentaries on Youtube about him, and it's quite funny. It's like Ponzi Schemers, they prey on the ignorant, aspirational, and greedy.

My boss was good friends with Cornelia "Corny" Guest. When I worked for him, I had no idea who she was. Someone said, "Oh, she's the lady who wrote a gardening book."

I was befriended in college by an old-money Catholic, whose family was connected to old money in Mexico, Ecuador and Rhode Island. We've discussed one of his relatives here more than once. That comment upthread about not financing a depreciating asset reminded me of him. His mother's family owned a chain of grocery stores. He'd offer advice on thrift when buying groceries, e.g., not buying beef cuts that contained bone. He considered filet mignon a relative bargain. I considered that loony, but kept my opinion to myself. Then he'd turn around and be cheap when buying liquor. And then he'd do something financially astute in my book.

When he bought the lot on which he built his house*, he bought two adjoining lots, both to control the perimeter of his property and for future development. This was in an area popular for retirement and resort living. In order to reduce the real estate tax on the lots, he planted them with fruit trees and had the lots declared agricultural for tax purposes, lowering the rate of taxation. He read up on the law himself and argued the case himself, despite not being a lawyer. He was smarter than you'd guess. Many people thought he was just a stoner trust funder, and he was that. He was just too refined to let on how much he observed. Impeccable manners. He was beloved within my college circle of friends.

* He built the house himself. One branch of the family was big in real-estate development. He'd worked as a framer on one of the developments. He had a small business with an electrician doing small remodeling jobs. He observed a lot and built himself quite a nice place with a gorgeous lake view.

There are some very cool old money Wasp people out there. Like r370's guy, a lot of them are very bright, very private and ultra polite. I have a friend who is from a very Old money family who has been a very respected ER physician for years, you's never know his real background

Who hasn't met or known an old money Wasp? They live under the radar.

R371 He wasn't a WASP. He was a frugal and monied Papist/Roman Catholic!

R322 which, interestingly enough, is more than a little fey.

There has always been a very fine line between ultra WASP/foppish and fey, actually.

Gross R370, he sounds low key homophobic. Why would you associate yourself with the Catholics who hate us?

R375, from which part of R370's post did you infer any homophobia? Was it just because he mentioned the guy was Catholic? I was raised Catholic and am as far from homophobia as it's possible to be. Most Catholics in my circle don't subscribe to much of the dogma, especially regarding homosexuality.

Episcopalians are typically the most accepting of everyone

My grandparents were Episcopalian and they thought Baptists and other assorted Evangelicals were hillbilly trash.

R377

True, but odd thing is more accepting and open Episcopalians become, their membership levels plummet further.

Female clergy, embracing SSM, etc... while all great things hasn't resulted in any huge uptick in membership for most branches of Episcopalians. Ironically despite all its woes Catholic church still grows, but still in second place behind Evangelicals.

R375, he didn't care that I was gay. He didn't care about his gay cousin either. What makes you think he was homophobic? Because he was from a Catholic family? He wasn't particularly observant. I only mentioned that because I know he wasn't a WASP, even though he came from very old money. I wrote about him because he shared some traits with other people discussed in the thread.

[quote]My grandparents were Episcopalian and they thought Baptists and other assorted Evangelicals were hillbilly trash.

and they were right, we don't call them deplorables without cause.

R379 WTF are you smoking? The international child abuse scandals have destroyed Roman Catholicism's name. They have no moral authority. Even the once hyper Roman Catholic , The Republic of Ireland, has become a secular European state. Thank God for that.....oh the irony of it all.

The first guy I had sex with in college. He was about three years older and had bounced around (flunked?) at least one Ivy League before being “reduced” to my university. I think his family sent him down south to get him out of their hair and out of Pennsylvania. Probably too many stories circulating around the country club.

. He had one of those “Chip/Biff” nicknames, drove a beat up BMW he bought in the college town, and was very bitter he had to live in an apartment complex instead of Mummy and Daddy buying him a house to live in.I was a naive freshman, and even though he was fucking (probably not-well) several sorority girls, he pretty much seduced me. He was very posh and snobby, and a drunk, but of course my head was turned by the thought of actually having sex with a man, finally. And someone who supplies me with booze and pot. He had a nice, mildly muscled body, hairy chest, and a big, big, dick. Unfortunately, he couldn’t get it up a lot of the time, but when it was GOOD, it was good.

We carried on for a few months, but kept it secret, as we both were trying to appear straight. Of course I found out years later that most of my friends knew what was up! He left school in the middle of my second semester. Never really found out why, exactly. Looking back, he was a total asshole, but I don’t regret him being my first. I did find him a few years ago on Facebook and looks like he did marry and have kids, but seems to be divorced now. I’m sure some friend of his parents set him up in some white collar job. From the looks of him, he kept up his other bad habits as well.

R383 Your friend sounds like white trash to me. Wasps can definitely be trash too.

Just look at "Southern Charm," all trash with cash.

[quote]He had one of those “Chip/Biff” nicknames, drove a beat up BMW he bought in the college town, and was very bitter he had to live in an apartment complex instead of Mummy and Daddy buying him a house to live in. ...He was very posh and snobby, and a drunk...

[quote]He built the house himself. One branch of the family was big in real-estate development. He'd worked as a framer on one of the developments. He had a small business with an electrician doing small remodeling jobs. He observed a lot and built himself quite a nice place with a gorgeous lake view.

Lots of the personal accounts don't sound like Old Money WASPs.

Old Money WASPs would find it good sport to live in a rented apartment (for a while.)

Outward signs of being "very posh and snobby" are rare; that's left for people who want to appear "WASPy."

While WASPs can and often do drink a great deal, it's quite rare to spot one drunk. Holding one's drink is built into the Old Money WASP model; lots of things are forgiven, but being a drunk, is a step too far if only because it draws too much attention.

And building a house oneself and buying the adjacent lots to plant them in citrus trees and an agricultural tax write-off? No, Old Money WASPs (and your man was Catholic) don't build houses except in the rarest case of an Old Money WASP architect, then it's usually a vacation house, or a guest house, or a garden pavilion to hold a collection of sculpture, and never with his own hands, and never would he buy in a place that needed a fruit tree buffer to his neighbors. Old Money WASPs *have* houses; they might swap them around with relatives, and rarely are they sold (and the kitchens and bathrooms are never shown in the listings because, well, who cares about those things? New money!)

This thread reminds me of the stingy with food one from a couple years back.

Three of the wealthiest, most powerful old-money men I ever met wore vaguely threadbare clothing -- Brooks Brothers shirts tatty at the collars -- and well-worn (but polished) shoes. They also seemed to keep their favorite toys from youth in proximity at home, including favorite cars from waaay back. No matter how rich they might be or how big the house, there's always a small, cozy room (relatively speaking) that's favored. They are instantly alert to certain social cues, not least, striving and aspiration. You can be from a modest background and still be well-thought of by them, but you better understand your place in the world. There's respect and admiration among them for the authentic. One can be recognized as a diamond in the rough.

Old Money?

400 years is NEW money...

Yes, r387, as long as you're not one of those uppity types, you will be allowed to serve them drinks at the club or mop their floors. But by all means, know your place and don't have any aspirations to do better.

True Old Money Wasps will speak to anyone from any walk of life and be gracious and polite. They ALWAYShave impeccable manners

R379 No Roman Catholicism doesn't grow. It is losing steam all over the world. After the child abuse scandals, internationally it has lost parishioners and money from them. Schools and churches have been closing internationally.