I just got out of alcohol detox and could use some support

‘AA is a cult’ is DL catnip. Be prepared for an onslaught of conflicting opinions. I hope you pull through, detoxing yourself is an important step. Hang in there.

You need to do something to take your mind off alcohol, develop an interest, stay away from any shop that sells alcohol including supermarkets, dump all your drinking buddies.

R1 Thank you. I hope I don't get a bunch of replies just agreeing with my AA comment without any alternative. I need advice.

Just smoke copious amounts of pot, silly.

OP, if you were like me, drinking was your hobby; so now, boredom is your enemy. You need to fill your time. I refurbished my house from top to bottom. I also went to AA and you should, too. You don’t have to marry it, just go for 6 months. And don’t just do any one thing. Do everything you can to stay sober, at least at first.

For the immediate time being, EVERYTHING should be subservient to your goal of staying sober, including your opinion of AA.

OP, go to AA as a stop gap, at least until you get through the next few weeks. There isn’t much of an alternative. Also, if you live in a moderate climate, go outside as much as possible and walk. Walk for miles if need be. I’m sending positive thoughts your way. Good luck. ❤️❤️

R5 R6 Yes, boredom is my enemy. And you're right. I don't have to 'marry' AA but I do need to go somewhere; at least I can just listen to whatever others have to say. I don't have to spill.

I think AA is cult-y, too, OP, but I think you should still go for a while and take what you can from it. Wishing you all the best.

We are all hear for you OP. Happy to listen and chat x

Why isn’t there a non-cults alternative?

Try not to slip into the trap of getting addicted to something else, like eating or smoking. Exercise is great it’ll make you feel better too. Also I found this book hopeful.

OP, can you get into a rehab now, for at least 30-45 days? Honestly, I highly recommend it. You need to be in a physical environment where you are held accountable for your presence, and you need to continue, “drying” out, so to speak.

Your chances aren’t great at this moment, unless you become accountable to someone and something other than yourself. Rehab’s the best place, because for sure, no one’s gonna ask you if you want some wine with your meal, or sell you a bottle of Smirnoff’s for the third time in 36 hours.

Consider it. It is your life we are talking about.

As an alternative or a supplement to AA look up emotional freedom technique. It’s not a cure all but can help with cravings

R10, Because everything that’s helpful is called a cult, no matter what!

Has anyone asked if you're okay?

Naltrexone & The Sinclair Method

Sending hugs to you 0P. Try looking at some YouTube videos that could be related and helpful. Like this one.....

Look up SmartRecovery and LifeRing Secular Recovery. Good luck to you, recognizing your problem is the first step.

R11 I definitely have that addictive personality. I quit smoking years ago and took up running which was great for a couple years until I hurt myself. While recovering, I became addicted to food! I could not stop eating. So to lose weight and keep it off, I became bulimic. What a joke. Writing these words, I realize how pitiful I truly am. That's how I became a drunk; something to be addicted to. Someone previously suggested pot. NEVER. I will not go there or to any drug. I know what would happen. I need to funnel my addiction into something 'healthy' -

R18 Thank you! I'll look up both.

wishing you the best OP..stay away from bars...develop new hobbies where there is no alcohol involved, stay away from your drinking buddies. When the urge hits, find a meeting at least in the beginning when you need the most support. I'm not big on AA either but if it helps get you through the worst, do it

R12 I've thought about a long-term rehab facility but the idea scares me. I wonder sometimes if I don't self-sabotage myself...

If AA is a cult, so fucking what? And what’s so scary about walking into a meeting, and staying sober just for one fucking day, even if you too, think AA is a cult?

No one’s chaining you to a bed (which depending on which meeting and what time, could actually be fun AF), no one’s locking you in a room, or stranding you on some god forsaken compound, wearing gauze pants or potato sack dresses, dehusking corn, or stirring up an army pot sized amount of grits for a bunch zombies at 4am.

It’s a fucking meeting. You park, get a seat, sit down, shut up for a few, listen, and ask questions, according to the format of the meeting, meaning you respect others who are also seeking help. Then you walk out, drive home, and if you’re lucky, fall asleep, without guzzling more poison into your guts.

Wanna go back? The choice is still yours. No cult programming required, because again: YOUR CHOICE.

Some people have nothing but this as an option. Some people are going to read this, go drink, and some might be ok, and some might not.

Your own bullshit biases are not going to do anything groundbreaking or earth shattering for OP, unless you personally have a better solution for OP, that is free, or if not, then you’re willing to spot him the cost, yes?

Let people make up their own minds, and let them have a shot at something that they might need or want more than you did, or something that might work OK for them, though not for you.

No meaningful advice, just hope you stay on the wagon. You can do what others have: quit for good.

AA says it, "Take what you need and then leave the rest" Go

Medication OP. Naltrexone or Antabuse. Very different. You may need Antabuse which will make you sick if you drink - given your level of dependence. Naltrexone is for less severe cases - but still worth trying. AA may not work for everyone - understood. But it’s worth sacrificing judgment and trying anything and everything.

It has to be total sobriety for me. I've been down that road where I think I can control it -- you know, one or two drinks and that's it. Does not work for me. Just sends me down the rabbit hole.

R26 The only medication I have right now is Acamprosate which is supposed to deter cravings but does nothing if I drink. I've used it in the past and you can actually drink while taking it; there's no reaction. It's just supposed to help with cravings. Antabuse sounds like methadone - makes you sick if you use alcohol/drugs. I don't know if I'm that far gone. Maybe. But maybe Naltrexone would be a good first step. I've got a good primary doctor; I'll ask him.

AA is not a cult at all. It is a group of alcoholics just like you OP. They are human (hardly perfect that is to say) but everything you have experienced, they have as well. They want you to get and remain sober. They demand nothing. I cannot imagine a better group of people to help you than those who have the same problem that you have, and perhaps have had success solving it.

I think you should take a drug that makes you sick when you drink. Go get it ASAP before you fall off the wagon which your posts seem to suggest you feel is inevitable.

Congratulations on your sobriety IP. Ten years sober for me without AA - which I view as a cult and entirely unhelpful for someone with low self esteem as many addicts have. What helped (s) me stay sober:

- therapy - life ring and smart recovery groups - reading Dr Gabor Mate - check out his videos about addiction on YouTube - intense exercise - veganism

Just looked up Naltrexone and it sounds similar to Acamprosate. Supposed to help with cravings but nothing more than that so I might as well stick with the Acamprosate. I guess the next step would be Antabuse if I can't get through this with mental and emotional strength.

R30 I think you might be right. Without family/friend support , I may just have to rely on something drastic like Antabuse. BUT I know I need to develop a support system and I don't know where to start. I'm probably heaping too much on myself right now. Stay sober, find a support system, involve myself in something bigger than myself, find a hobby, etc etc. It gets overwhelming.

Swimming and bicycling could be good and easier on your joints!

You're only human OP. Just stay positive about yourself day to day and if possible use the drug as a crutch so you really won't find pleasure or comfort if you drink.

Replace one habit with another. Take up cardio and resistance training. The endorphins will make you feel happy. You will look better too.

Have you ever been diagnosed with or suspect you have ADD or ADHD? A friend was(/is?) an alcoholic. Got diagnosed with ADD and prescribed medication for its treatment. They haven't had another alcohol craving again in the 6 years since their diagnosis. I never realized that there was a link between the two or that alcoholics may be self-medicating for the condition until my friend went through it. Just wanted to pass that along.

OP:Rehab, 7 times... it didn’t work for me. But what it did do, was put me in a safe space. I was with people like me, an addict. You felt so safe and away from everything. Great food also. My last time in rehab, I told them I didn’t agree with Aa and they told me, there was nothing that they could do for me and basically was asked to leave. Not sure what happened, but I have been sober almost 6 years. I say that working is my version of AA. Good luck with this. Rehab will at least give you a start

I’d go into a rehab. Kills time and cravings- the psychological ones.

R38 here, working out is my version of AA

First off you have to quit because you want to quit for YOU! Not because your parents are nagging you or your partner or whatever. Secondly, You must think that you can do it. Don’t self sabotage yourself by negative thinking. Keep saying to yourself I am stronger than alcohol. I don’t need alcohol to live.

And fill your time by trying to better yourself. Learn a musical instrument. A harmonica is cheap and there are videos and books to help you learn. Guitar is fun too. Or even photography. Take long nature walks and bring a Camera with you and learn about taking photos. And not with an iPhone either.

R38 Thank you. Interesting that you write that 'working' was your AA. The real beginning of my heavy drinking was that I retired too young with absolutely no plans. My work was my life and I bought into the 'retire young' and REALLY live your life! Well, I did that and after traveling around a bit (alone) found I was bored. I'm not writing this for you to feel sorry for me. I'm writing it so you can see the value in 'rehearsing' for retirement. Know what you plan to do and who you plan to do it with. By the time I decided that maybe I should get back in the working world, that world had moved past me. My 'tools' were no longer relevant. I stepped out WAY too soon.

OP, if you're not going to rehab, it's probably money related. If you can't afford rehab, you can't afford anything else, either.

But you have to do something to stay sober. And AA is free. The low cost leader.

Did you think there was an app for that? There is AA and there is a lot of hard work.

R43 and others: No it isn't money related. I can afford longterm rehab, no matter where or how long. I've 'toyed' with the idea but never really considered it until I've been reading all your comments today on its value. I have one major stumbling block and, again, I'm probably self-sabotaging. I said I have no family/friend support and that's true. But I do have a 97 year old mother in an Assisted Liviing facility. I'm IT for her. My siblings have abandoned her and I just can't. The idea of being away for 30+ days, leaving her in the care of semi-competent staff. I don't know if any of you are in that situation but if you don't appear regularly and let staff know you're watching, your loved one will be put in a corner and ignored. I simply CANNOT leave her for more than a few days without showing my face. And this is a very top-end facility. I can't imagine what some other facilities are like. So, no, money is not an issue. The more we get into this, the more I see what a mess it is.

Different for everyone. For me, the intensity and constant stress of work drove me to drink. When I quit work, it took about 6-12 months to rebalance and I totally lost the desire to drink.

Naltrexone is not going to stop you from drinking. But there is a lot of literature out there that says stopping increases the biological urge and makes it worse when you relapse. The Sinclair Method will describe it to you.

Sorry, but this is the WRONG place to come to asking for support.

[quote] But I do have a 97 year old mother in an Assisted Liviing facility. I'm IT for her. My siblings have abandoned her and I just can't. The idea of being away for 30+ days, leaving her in the care of semi-competent staff.

Yes, you are self sabotaging. Mom doesn't get much help from a drunk care giver. If you are in crisis now, you need to deal with it now.

OP what exactly is inpatient rehab? How much per day were you drinking when you entered rehab? I've heard people could have seizures if they quit drinking, so do they give you anit-seizure meds until 2 weeks pass and then send you home?

OP, maybe you should get a part time job to keep you busy. Not a career type job, just working as a shop bottom or something in order to organize your days and meet people. That way, you won’t be away from your mom and won’t be lonely.

If you’ve already detoxed and money and time is no option there maybe other out-patient options for you.

R48 I was never in Inpatient Rehab. I've only been in hospitalized detox. The first time was five days, this last bout was 4 days. There was no rehab. It's just being medicated and monitored while you basically sleep, eat, and wander the locked ward like a zombie. The local hospitals use the Behavior Health wards for detox, so it can be a real zoo. But there is no 'rehab' -- all they do is get you clean.

R50 You're right. There must be some kind of intensive outpatient option available. I'll pursue this. Thank you.

While some wisdom can be gleaned here and there, AA is indeed a cult and may do more harm than good. Keep yourself busy and talk to your doc or psychiatrist about naltrexone therapy.

Try going to a church. Lots of former alcoholics and addicts become addicted to religion.

R54 I've heard that. I know that AA encourages (or demands?) acceptance of a 'higher power'. Whether that's some kind of personal spirituality or organized religion, I don't know. But I'm willing to try anything.

Some turn to Jesus

And some turn to heroin

Some turn to rambling round

Looking for a clean sky

And a drinking stream

OP, meet me at the bar and we’ll discuss it.

R55/OP, I’m not going to get into specifics or details, because those are personal, however, allow me to share my experience with you, if you will, please?

Thank you.

When I went to a 45 day in patient treatment facility for alcoholism, I had LOTS going on. There were legal issues (all normal stuff, nothing criminal or negative-but still stressful and time sensitive), pet-sitting concerns, apartment sitting concerns, stuff that needed me to be present at my bank, because of the stuff that was being processed in regards to the legal issues, tons of paperwork, signatures, and a few meetings with lawyers.

I can say this, without a single doubt in my mind and heart: there was NO more an inconvenient time for me to hit in patient rehabilitation, than right then and there. Worse? There was not one person out there that I trusted enough to take care of my shit while away. Especially my cat. Everything else could have gone to shit, but no way was I abandoning my baby, or leaving her exposed to neglect or anything that could hurt her.

As fucked up as I was, I ran the numbers, so to speak. That’s how my brain is trained to work. Mentally, I drew 2 columns: Go To Rehab Tomorrow Morning vs. Don’t. Then I looked at the entire thing. The dates, deadlines, and what that meant for me, because there were some serious responsibilities that I HAD TO MEET, NO MATTER WHAT, OR I WOULD HAVE FORFEITED “Things”. I couldn’t forfeit these things. I also had lots to gain by not going to rehab, because of the things I wasn’t forfeiting, were yielding really high and positive returns, so to speak. So what did I do? I called the owner of the rehab. I introduced myself to him via telephone. I said, “Here’s my situation, here’s what’s going on with me, here’s what J want, here’s what I need, and I want all of this, because if I don’t get this, I am probably going to die.”

Guess what, OP? He agreed. He understood everything that needed to be accommodated, because the circumstances were real, and had to be taken care of. He understood that I was earnestly seeking help, yet was also a responsible adult with prior commitments and deadlines.

The following morning, I went to rehab. From there, I took care of all of the shit I had to take care of, without missing one single beat, and successfully, I might add. Listen, alcoholics have lives, too. And things don’t wait for our inpatient treatment to end. People who work in treatment understand this.

Call a reha , or call 19 of them, until you find a decent one that will take you in, and allow you to see your mom on a regular basis. It can totally be done.

If I had not asked someone to help me accommodate my responsibilities while in rehab, I believe that there is a really good chance that I may not have made it. I am not even sure that I could have successfully navigated all of the stuff I had to accomplish that month. All I know is that I knew myself well enough to know that I needed help and I needed it right then, right there, and my alcoholism was not going to take a back seat to anything, unless I became willing to “do anything” to get treatment.

Just turned 4 years sober, OP. You can do this, and care for your mom. It’s not one or the other like you think it is.

Call.

Oh my this is sooooooo new!! An AA thread on Datalounge! Oh good Lord we haven’t had one of these in soooooooooooo long!!! Thank you so much OP for this vital posting. We will all be so much more educated with the helpful comments that come from this very thoughtful, very caring thread.

I detoxed also in the hospital. I was planning to go into Rehab but they wouldn't let me since I had edema on my ankles. I actually was fine doing in on my own and never went to AA. I am very private and although my friends knew, I didn't ask for or get support from them (that's just me very independent). I think few people can take my route but you need to be very strong.

Since this might not be for you, you might want to reach out to your medical provider group and see what suggestions they have. Also, the mental health side might offer support of group sessions on dependence.

I wish you lots of luck and am confident that you can make the needed change to bring more value to your life!!

I quit drinking today. Just starting the journey, so this thread is very informative for me, too. I am so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. I spend all day recovering from what I drank the night before and then start drinking again at 7pm. I know booze is the source of all my health problems. I don't know how it happened, but somehow, something flipped, and it took control of me, whereas I always had control of it!

Read a book. When you have the urge to drink, pick up your book and read instead. You will have lots of time to do other more productive things with time you used to use drinking.

R58 Thank you! I never thought my needs could be accommodated. Yes, I will call rehab centers in the area and see if there's one that will accommodate my having to visit my mom every few days and then return. You've given me hope that inhouse rehab might be possible.

R61 Good luck to you. I got through today and have plans to make a few calls tomorrow to follow-up on the advice I got here on DL today. I hope you can successfully get through the day without a drink. I know it sounds corny but the idea of 'one day at a time' makes sense to me now. I got through today. Hopefully, I can get through tomorrow. You, too. Please read through these threads; there are some good suggestions. Maybe we can both start living sober.

Honestly, I was pretty close to drinking myself to death and had been to rehab 3 times, countless AA meetings...what worked for me was medical marijuana. I was sure before I tried it that I'd hate it and it would make me want to drink more, but I honestly had nothing to lose and couldn't get much worse. In the past weed had made me anxious and paranoid, and it did at first...but for whatever reason, once I switched to cannabis I never picked up a drink again. Once I got some distance from the drinking it just made no sense to me anymore...the hangovers, the embarrassing, reckless behavior. You get none of that with weed.

For a weekend, try getting some weed (ask for a relaxing strain, maybe even tell them you're trying to quit drinking), get some great snacks and non-alcoholic drinks, and get a little high and binge watch a great show, watch a cool documentary or movie, listen to some music. Just give it a chance. If you get anxious or paranoid, try to focus on some of the nice, safe and cozy aspects of your home and personal space.

Honestly, it saved my life and I would never have believed it if it hadn't happened to me. And I didn't turn into a huge pot head. I just enjoy it as an option to help me unwind and most importantly fill some of the time in the evening and weekends. My quality of life is so much better now it is unreal.

My heart goes out to you, OP, and I'm rooting for you. I know the hell you're going through and how scary it is. Please be kind to yourself.

OP, naltrexone is supposed to help with cravings, but it also eliminates the euphoria or “buzz” you get from alcohol. You still get drunk, but it doesn’t feel as good (it still feels better than sober, in the moment). So you loose the urge to drink as the association between alcohol and feeling good lessens. The Sinclair method involves intentional drinking with this goal. Not that many providers proscribe naltrexone and even fewer promote the Sinclair method. So if you just got out of detox, I wouldn’t jump into trying to cobble together a Sinclair method approach without adequate support. However, taking naltrexone can definitely help keep you from going too far off the deep end if you do slip.

If you don’t really like AA, but think it might help you keep from drinking in the near term, just go. I find AA a little weird, And I avoid it now, but I don’t think the cult comparison is really fair. This is how it was put to me once - the people in AA who act like cult members and are intolerant of dissent or questioning are probably just more fucked up and need someone to tell them exactly what to do. And there are some other almost as fucked up people who need to tell other people what to do. But MOST meetings are not full of people like that and most people in AA aren’t like that. I’ve found people genuinely want to help.

You could probably find a nice person you trust you could pay to keep an eye on your mom.

OP, naltrexone is supposed to help with cravings, but it also eliminates the euphoria or “buzz” you get from alcohol. You still get drunk, but it doesn’t feel as good (it still feels better than sober, in the moment). So you loose the urge to drink as the association between alcohol and feeling good lessens. The Sinclair method involves intentional drinking with this goal. Not that many providers proscribe naltrexone and even fewer promote the Sinclair method. So if you just got out of detox, I wouldn’t jump into trying to cobble together a Sinclair method approach without adequate support. However, taking naltrexone can definitely help keep you from going too far off the deep end if you do slip.

If you don’t really like AA, but think it might help you keep from drinking in the near term, just go. I find AA a little weird, And I avoid it now, but I don’t think the cult comparison is really fair. This is how it was put to me once - the people in AA who act like cult members and are intolerant of dissent or questioning are probably just more fucked up and need someone to tell them exactly what to do. And there are some other almost as fucked up people who need to tell other people what to do. But MOST meetings are not full of people like that and most people in AA aren’t like that. I’ve found people genuinely want to help.

You could probably find a nice person you trust you could pay to keep an eye on your mom.

R65 Thank you and I'm happy the medical mj worked for you. But with my addictive personality, I'm afraid I'd just wind up in the same situation I'm in now.

R67 I didn't know that about naltrexone. Also, I'm listening to what the DLers are saying about AA. You're right. There's no harm in just going to meetings and listening, I don't have to buy into the whole package. Thank you.

OP: As one who has been there and maintainIng sobriety, here are my thoughts: 1. AA — Listen to what is helpful and LEAVE THE REST! 2. Check out a few meetings. See if there is a person you connect with. 3. You know the AA nazis and just don’t listen (sit down, shut up, 90 meetings in 90 days, maybe this isn’t your rock bottom,!so go out there and you’ll be back) BS!!! 4. Make it like a job search. There are helpful people in a sea of assholes. 5. People use AA to hook up. DONT! You can do this. Good luck. One cliche that has been true for me (I’m ready for you haters - My worst day being sober is better then my “best day” drinking )

R70 Oh yeah, I've heard the 90 meetings in 90 days thing; ain't gonna happen. And yes those AA Nazis exist and just need to be ignored. I've got to learn to not take the assholes personally. Just attend, take what I can use, and go with it.

I've been through official detox, in a hospital setting. And I've also had to dry out on my own. I've already shared elsewhere that I got myself in trouble with my BF and my brother, and they laid down the law to me. So I've been sober for nearly two weeks. I guess I now have a huge incentive to try to stay sober. I've gotten through withdrawal, and I've actually slept normally for a change. I don't know how to motivate you (since it didn't work for me), but if you've made it through detox, you've already earned something worth hanging on to. I managed to stay sober for several years when my parents were alive. My sobriety collapsed like a house of cards once they died. Right now, I have an immediate incentive: they have to replace my shoulder, and they can't do that if I'm drinking. So I've caught up with all the mail, been catching up on reading, and been forcing myself to work full days (just using my right arm). I already know my liver is messed up, but I'd like to wait until I have a couple of month's sobriety before I go in for more blood work. I can't undo what I've already done to myself (including a month in jail) but I really don't feel like beating myself up anymore. I can barely drive, even if I wanted to, and I can't ask anyone to bring me something to drink.

I know how you must feel about your Mom. I hope you're able to move forward, hanging on to some of your health. I'm too overwhelmed to look at the big picture, so I try to focus on what's right in front of me.

Look into sone sort of outpatient post detox counseling. Also, give AA a try. Look for a gay AA meeting got you can. The gay campground where I go in the summer for instance has an AA group.

I was exactly like you down to the bulimia and all . Naltrexone and Antabuse didn’t do anything for me. I drank on them too . Years sober now. In the beginning AA saved my life. Still have a love/hate relationship with it but in the first year it really helped. Getting a good sponsor to be accountable to was a life saver as was having a routine of making meetings. I rarely go now but it did help me. Exercise is a great addiction to replace the booze with but it can become obsessive too. I have found that working out a few days a week has been easy but now I concentrate more on my well being and spiritual fitness too. I got into yoga, mindfulness and meditation. No I’m not a woowoo new age quack but my body is slim and toned from yoga and I have learned to let go of a lot of my self loathing and blame which only triggered my drinking. I don’t crave anymore and I look much younger and healthier so I have no desire to return to booze. If the cravings come back I head to a meeting and share. But they haven’t in a very long time. Best wishes to you! You Can totally get away from this vicious cycle. You deserve a beautiful life.

[quote] OP: BUT I know I need to develop a support system and I don't know where to start.

I know it’s hard, OP. Now you know where to start, with a good support group, AA. Yes, you will find people there you don’t like, but that’s in every group. They will also have a lot of suggestions for other resources, facilities, methods, etc., especially the new people.

I forgot to write earlier, but you should expect it to be hard. Changing your behavior is hard. There is no easy way to do this. Also, no one can do it for you, unfortunately.

I once was on a sailboat (in Ptown, incidentally) whose sail completely collapsed AND the boat capsized. I wasn’t strong enough to right the boat. I was able to climb on the overturned boat. I tried to signal for help, but I was too far out. I was drifting towards some rocks and I was worried about that. I realized that it was up to me and only me. I had to right the boat myself, as hard as it was. I jumped in the water and used all the strength I had, and managed to turn the boat over.

Likewise, OP, no one can do this for you. It is hard. But you can do it!

OP, Datalounge can strangely be a place of support. Lots of us have been through this and are going through it now. I've just fallen off the wagon and and am in the same situation as you. I think I just have to figure it out for myself. The fact that I don't like the way it makes me feel, and how dumb it makes me will help me because now things are good and it's starting to get in my way.

I wish I had advice, but I do send my support for what it's worth.

You can do it, OP! Just remember that drinking isn’t actually fun. You’re gonna be miserable for a while until your brain and body adjust, but alcohol won’t make you feel better. It will just numb you. Don’t you remember the time in your life before you were always so numb? You will never feel it again unless you avoid drinking and get over this painful hump.

OP, if money is not a problem, hire a healthcare worker to check on your Mom while you go away for 30 days. An acquaintance of mine owns two rehabs in Malibu, and they are like five star resorts. Another place that is a lot cheaper is Crossroads in Antigua in the Caribbean. That’s the place that Eric Clapton founded as a way of giving back. I’d guess Crossroads is around $25,000 for the month and I don’t think they accept insurance.

The biggest problem is that, given your Mom’s age, it’s always possible that she’ll pass away while you’re lounging by the pool somewhere, and you’ll have to resist the impulse to go home immediately. You’ve been a good son, you shouldn’t feel guilty about taking some time for yourself, to save your life. It’s only one in a thousand sons that are as attentive as you’ve been, you know.

Believe me, resort rehab or not, the month will still be harder for you than for your mother.

I'm overwhelmed with the support from everyone who has posted to this thread. I never thought that the DL community had such a supportive core. I honestly was expecting one or two compassionate posts, maybe a couple suggestions, and then a ton of snarkiness and 'weak bitch' comments. Some of these suggestions are golden...just exactly what I need to move forward and try to build a sober life. I had no idea what the next step should be and many of you have suggested programs that I will spend today researching. I got through yesterday without a drink. Hopefully, I can do the same today. Thank you all. It's great to know we're here for each other.

I went to two parties this weekend, one Saturday and one Sunday. I got blackout drunk at both of them. I woke up on Monday to four separate "are you ok?" text messages. I was later told that I was being sexually aggressive and not taking no for an answer at both places. I feel so humiliated and alone. I feel like all my friends hate me now (they don't, but it sure feels that way). I'm a huge mess and am in therapy but wonder if that's enough. I'm committed to being sober and i've done it before. But I'm scared and feel like I'm completely see-thru and everyone who looks at me can tell I'm a drunk.

R80 PLEASE read through all these posts. There are great suggestions for the next step to take. I'm doing my research today and coming back to this thread to check for new comments. I'm sure not all the suggested programs are going to prove helpful to me. I've already found that one of the suggested programs advocates 'smart drinking' -- reduced drinking -- and I know that's not going to work for me. But I still have a lot of research to do off of what the DL community has offered on this post. So please read the posts, do some research, and let's hope we can get through this. And, no, not everyone can tell you're a drunk. They all think you just drank too much last night. But you know the truth. Again, please read the posts. You'll find at least one thing help you through this today.

[R80] My heart goes out to you. You are a fine person underneath the booze, and people are forgiving as long as you are contrite and willing to make a change.

I didn't drink yesterday but I swear at like 3-4pm (I called in sick to work), I could TASTE the lemon Bacardi i would drink a half a bottle of. Like on weekend days when I didn't have to work, that's when I'd start drinking and the impulse to do it again was so strong. It was scary. I didn't, though. Mostly because I'm so disgusted with myself.

I went to rehab (it was awful) and then I went to AA. But I was so desperate I would have done anything. I stuck with AA for 22 years, long after I found it counterproductive. I left the program (and stayed clean & sober), got on the anti-depressants I should have been taking all along, and I've never felt better.

I heard or read somewhere (too lazy to look for link) that once alcoholics manage to abstain for 5 years, the majority of them manage to stay sober for the rest of their lives. Maybe it's a rumor or old wives' tale, but that's how it worked for me. I got clean and sober in 1981 at 22; I'm 61, and I haven't had a drink or a drug since then.

I was a 22 year old train wreck when I got clean and sober. If I can do it, OP, so can you.

R80, don’t beat yourself up, please.

During my relapse, I got so drunk one Saturday, that I actually stood out on a residential neighborhood, and started belting out Beyoncé songs, and twerking. People were looking out their windows, coming out to their front lawns, and pretty sure some were recording my impromptu concert in da hood, performance for social media laughs and likes. LMAO! I made an absolute fool of myself.

Guess what? I am powerless over my reaction to alcohol, once I consume it. I cannot guarantee decorum or subtlety. As soon as I start polishing off some drinks, I do shit like: sing very loudly and sometimes, off key, tell everyone around me that I love them so much, while giving out hugs and kisses, and offer to make everyone a home cooked meal, which I have done many, many times, to my horror and how I didn’t burn down the house, is beyond me.

Guess what? Haven’t had any embarrassing, drunken incidents since the moment I stopped drinking.

Drunks like us relapse, R80. The trick is finding grace. All is forgiven. Get back up, try again, and keep on trying. We win when we die. Before then, we’re just fallible and human.

Shit happens.

I’m going to lose my lunch.

Why? Because some people have problems?

r84 I had a similar experience with AA. After five years of sobriety I was able to leave the group and stay sober. It’s been eleven years since I had a drink. I did need it at fir and attended meetings up to three times a day! But I burned out on it and am lucky to have a therapist who has experience with addiction issues.

Does AA cost money? I mean, do they pass the hat? Or everyone pays 10 dollars at the door? And does the person in charge get paid for leading meetings?

I’m shocked how much people pay for rehab. Seems like it would be cheaper to hire a full time sober coach and go to AA meetings every day. The idea of pay tens of thousands for it seems like a ripoff. And don’t they make you room with someone and clean toilets? No thanks.

AA is free to the attendees. Donations are optional, and only if you can. If you’re broke, that’s OK. You’re in the right place.

R90, who cleans toilets at rehabs? You think people who are dropping 50K or the equivalent, paid via the insurance company, is cleaning toilets???

Have you ever been? Probably not. And hope you never have to.

Not every rehab wants toilet cleaners. They want patients.

R90 As far as rooming with someone or cleaning toilets, those would be questions you should ask before entering a rehab facility. I can't imagine just going in without knowing what's expected. When I went through detox, there were individual rooms if available. I was always lucky enough to get one. When I go into rehab, an individual room will be one of my top requests. And cleaning toilets (other than your own) sounds like some kind of breaking-down-your-personality thing. More like what the military does in boot camp. No, rehab is to rehabilitate your personality, get you back to that 'good place.' If they have you doing dirty jobs, they're just saving money under the pretense of helping you!

OP, do you have some sort of artistic talents? Writing? Painting? Music? Doing something like that can help keep you busy and also be rewarding.

I also completely understand about the situation with your mother. It's a double-edged sword. If you don't enter a facility you could relapse, but you know your mom's situation is better. But if you do enter you're working against your own healing worrying about what the hell your mother is going through. So you've just wasted all that time and money for nothing.

I'll give a bit of advice regarding your mom that my friend who is a social worker gave me. Imagine you're on a plane and you're with someone who needs aid. The oxygen masks are deployed. What's the first thing you do? Affix the mask to whomever is under you aid before putting on your own mask.

R94 Thank you. That's interesting. I thought we were supposed to put the masks on ourselves first so that we could help others. ?? I'm wrestling with the 'take care of myself first' so that I can be of more use to her.

Yes, what you said is correct. I've been sick all week and my head is mush at this point.

You do affix the mask to yourself before aiding anyone else. Hence the take care of yourself or you can't take care of someone else.

I'll give a little background for more perspective. Last June my mom, who is already disabled broke her leg getting into a car for a doctor appointment. Given that surgery was too risky in her condition she was admitted to a rehab facility before coming back home. While she was there I was in a car accident which required her to get more days in the facility. I had been there every single day she was there, met all the staff, etc. I get a call early one morning that she was going to the hospital with a rapid pulse and high fever. Turns out she went into sepsis, the infection got to her heart and she suffered a heart attack. She made it home and has been under hospice care since. So, I completely understand where your heart is at this point regarding your mom.

[quote] R90: Re rehab cost

The 30-day rehab programs were more likely to be covered by your insurance decades ago, but most stopped that. If you’ve got good insurance, you’re really sick, and it’s your first stint, maybe they’ll cover some of it. Oh, you generally get what you pay for, incidentally, so the more expensive, the better accommodations and treatment.

They range in cost from cheap, which I’m only guessing is, maybe, $25,000; to costly, $80,000 and up, for the 5 star Malibu places. I looked recently as an acquaintance owns two of them. I suspect that Crossroads in R78 discreetly charges on a sliding scale. You might not even know if they’ve given you a break. If you arrive in your private plane, don’t expect a break.

Rehab is particularly useful if you know nothing about recovery, are really sick and might need a long detox, need to establish an entirely new way of living; and want to be segregated from the world.

Crossroads in Antigua, R78, only allowed phone calls on the weekend; otherwise no phones; no books other than recovery related; no visitors except during bimonthly visitor’s weekend; and you are not permitted to leave the facility unescorted. If you did, you forfeited your place there, and you might not even be allowed to pay for another stint. It’s a luxurious place, so don’t think it’s like prison. It is just totally focused on recovery. I think they’ve changed the rule to allow smart phones more recently and I don’t know what else.

R96 Honest to God, no wonder we self-medicate with booze. PLEASE try to stay strong and I'll do the same. We can do this. Other people have beat alcohol addiction and continued living good lives. We can do this.

Hey, OP, if you do go to rehab, you’ll probably rack up a lot in medical expenses this year. You should consider taking the medical deduction on your taxes. Not only is the entire rehab out-of-pocket cost covered, but if it’s distant, you can deduct your airfare, too. Plus cabs to/from the airport. Almost everything related to it.

You might want to get your doc to write a script for it. He just scribbles “30 day rehab” on his Rx pad. You’ll need that for your insurance company and might need it for your taxes. It’s simple enough.

R99 Wow! Thank you for sharing. That is some great information.

What's that other program besides AA - Smart something or other. My friend really liked it and serves AA as a backup.

Having AA alone is not necessarily the way to go. The Smart program actually provides tools for recovery - not some of the silly shit in AA.

I've been sober over 30 years. AA was all I needed. I've only encountered cult behavior once, or more accurately, two friends of mine got into a cult. I told them to stop going to those meetings. One stopped. We haven't heard from the other in years.

Yes, you can find cults within AA, but AA is not a cult in itself. I don't know how I'd have stayed sober all this time without it. I don't go every day. I stopped going for years two or three times. But going to AA was enough to convince me not drinking is a better idea than drinking.

I did not need rehab.

Oh, there are Gay focused rehabs, too. One is called the “Pride Institute” and it’s in Minneapolis. I think these will focus less on the Higher Power since so many Gays are heathens. I have no idea how successful they are.

OP/r98, I gave up drinking because I just didn't like it anymore. Last time I was drinking, back about 4 years ago, I started hanging out with a co-worker who absolutely raked me over the coals for drinking. At that time that's what I needed. Everybody responds differently to treatment, other people, etc. I was glad to have her in my life and I still am.

When I started losing money and waking up in the wrong side of town with the wrong people I realized that I needed to change. I just didn't like it anymore. I really had to evaluate my life and see who was there for me vs who was there for what I had(which wasn't much). I eventually cut out those scumbags and kept the good people. The circle is much smaller, but I don't regret it one bit.

I love listening to music. 95% of the time Spotify is playing around me. I wake up to it and go to sleep to it. Maybe there's music you like that can be an escape for you.

R103 - wrong. There are several Pride institutes - it's just a section of a regular, usually run-down rehab hospital that they section off for gays and lesbians only.

It's almost entirely AA stuff.

OP. This is off-topic, but I found that a Board and Care Home was a much better situation for my mom (and myself.) It was 2 women who took care of 4 women and they were much more emotionally invested in my mom than an assisted living facility with their arm of CNA's who don't give a shit about anyone. My mom had a private room in a beautiful home, in a beautiful neighborhood, and it cost me 4000/per month verses 8000/month in an assisted living facility. My mom was in home hospice, too, so she got nursing visits every other day, she was bathed every other day, so there were other eyes and ears monitoring her care daily. My anxiety about her safety and well being went way down after she moved there, and I was even able to go out of town for a few days and actually enjoy the trip. I don't regret for a minute choosing Board and Care over Assisted Living because she passed away in a much more peaceful and calm environment, with a rose garden just outside her window and two puppies that would come in a say hello everyday.

Incidentally, there are Gay focused gatherings, sort of like conventions, in fun places. There is one yearly in Miami in March for 4 days, I think. There’s also one yearly in PTown in October. People come from all over to go. Generally, the people who go have been sober for a little while or longer, but it’s not required. The purpose is to boost your commitment to sobriety while meeting people and having fun in a cool place.

If you get your doc to write a script for that, too, most of the expenses including airfare are tax deductible.

Thank you R105. It serves one well to do a little research. I used to see one advertised in the back of various Gay-oriented magazines.

R101 I've looked into Smart Recovery a bit. It appears to be a great program for people who can control their drinking. It's focus appears to be 'smart' drinking as opposed to getting blackout drunk. I'm sure that works for many people but it's not for me. I know I have to remain sober. It's got to be complete sobriety for me. Every time I relapse, I drink more than I did before I quit. If I go back to drinking, I'll be dead before spring.

It amuses me to see characters on TV identify as alcoholics, but they continue drinking, and also usually don’t get shitfaced on a regular basis. I suppose it’s necessary for the storytelling.

I realize nobody asked, but a good movie about recovering from alcohol addiction is Clean and Sober. Michael Keaton does a pretty good job; I was surprised at how good.

No - Smart Recovery is about identifying your triggers and creating behaviors to work against the urges.

It's not moderate drinking - that's another program.

AA doesn't really teach you much except to call your sponsor or go to a meeting.

R112 Thank you for the clarification. I just found out there is a weekly Smart Recovery program in my area. Meets on Monday evenings. I hope to give it a try.

R112, that’s not true about AA. Part of the feature of meetings is mixing with other sober people and asking them what worked for them. Getting a hug when your Mom dies. If you listen, you’ll here plenty. And lots of people get sober that way.

But, please, this has been a great thread, let’s not turn it into the usual anti-AA thread. Please.

My neighbor had a pretty serious drinking problem and he just died at about age 62. If he didn’t fall while drunk, it might have been other alcohol related heath problems like that bug gut he got in recent years.

I had high blood pressure when I drank. When I quit, it went back within the healthy range - and still is, 15 years later.

R114 - I never said there isn't something to be gained from AA. But I think if you couple the Smart program with AA you have a much better chance.

Otherwise it's all on you to ask what works, what their experiences are, etc. Sometimes AA is cliquish and some people just don't have time or the senior people are over 'newbies'.

AA is a passive, watch and learn recovery. Smart actually gives you some behavior modifications and strategies.

I'm at 40 days, OP. Weed got me through the first couple of weeks. Its nature actually made me look inside and analyse my own behaviour. I find it impossible to smoke too much because it is a mental game, rather than physical.

I've stopped now with no issues. Also a food addict, I think we are addicted to constant stimulation. Social media is another one to be wary of.

I think you need to look at the real reasons behind your actions. Until you (we) sort that out there will always be something to ruin us.

Good luck!

R117 Thank you. You're the third on this thread to talk up weed. I'm just too afraid to go that direction because of my addictive personality. I don't want to trade in one problem for another. But smoking pot has obviously helped a lot of people recover.

I asked nicely, R116. This isn’t the thread for critiquing AA. It works for some, and that’s enough.

OP and others, when I quit drinking, I used every resource I could find. Do Smart and AA as R116 suggests. Acupuncture, Chinese herbal therapy, massage therapy, mental health therapy. Read about recovery. Ask sober people about it - they are a great resource. Use what works, and discard the rest.

R119 ACUPUNCTURE! Thank you. I used it in the past when I was going through a painful back issue and it helped tremendously. I'd forgotten about that. I definitely am going to pursue that again.

When you finish spending money at the rehab, there ongoing care will likely be telling you to go to AA meetings.

I'd say that AA is mandatory. My family is full of alcoholics and drug addicts, and I know plenty others outside my family. Every single one of them who thought they could 'do it on their own' relapsed. AA is not a cult. It's completely voluntary. It's a support system for people that can help them see the results of their actions clearly, and help them to stay away from the substances that make their lives unmanageable. Try it again. No one will force you to stay.

If anything, this thread is some pretty stark commentary on the fact that we have traveled to the moon (allegedly), but medical treatments which are proven to be successful for the treatment of alcoholism and addiction, are pretty much non-existent.

It’s basically luck. Sometimes you hit the mark, or not. That’s why it’s such an INSANELY profitable industry, rehabs, that is.

Right now, I can name at least 5 people whom I personally know, yet no longer associate with, who have ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT QUESTION NO BUSINESS RUNNING REHABS, YET THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

I have witnessed some of the most unethical, despicable behavior by people who claim to be “helping” those who seek treatment, yet are just in it for money, and will do whatever it takes, to get people into their facilities, even when it is overwhelmingly apparent that these people should be in a psych unit, an actual hospital, and sometimes, incarcerated.

Just insane shit, that is so fucked up, that people end up dead, because the insurance companies and the AMA, have ceded regulation of these facilities, and pretty much any idiot with ZERO medical training can buy a property, stick dozens of bunk beds into it, hire an insurance code biller, a few drug and alcohol techs, and call themselves a rehab.

I am all for rehabs, but unless there are licensed medical personnel employed and on site 24/7, I would avoid it like the plague. And I’m someone who went to rehab.

Same thing or a double-down on “sober living” homes. You wanna relapse ASAP? Get into one of these places. Drinking and using are almost guaranteed.

Recovering from alcoholism and drug addiction are not easy endeavors, and I’m glad so many of us here have been supportive in our responses to OP and others who are currently struggling.

OP, remember HALTT. People get cravings when feeling these ways, that you should obviously avoid: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, and Thirsty.

Here’s something simple that worked for me: whenever I felt strange, out of kilter, or bothered, I’d put away what I was doing, and get a tall glass of water. I’d drink it down, and go back to whatever I was doing. In that short period, I felt better. It was amazing. It’s so simple, I can imagine people won’t try it, but it worked for me.

If you’re craving, and it’s late, go to bed. Or even take a nap during the day. My friend swore by this but joked that he had to put limits on it rather than going to bed at 5pm, lol.

The last mosquito that bit me checked into the Betty Ford clinic.

Weed seems to trigger a different part of your brain than alcohol. You never want to binge on weed. You don't forget your problems like with alcohol. It's more of an introspective buzz, which doesnt exactly lead to destructive behavior.

Plus, sex is pretty great on weed, especially edibles.

R123 - totally agree. In PA, the number of rehabs that have popped up with little or no credentials is shocking. Parents of kids who are hooked on drugs are so desperate, they pay anything for help - even those who can’t afford it. I’ve seen so many people spend tens of thousands of dollars for rehabs - only to relapse shortly thereafter.

Seems like some research should be done on medical treatment for addiction. AA is so unscientific and random. There has to be something else. At least the Sinclair Method has some logic and science behind it - as well as statistics.

[quote]Yes, you are self sabotaging. Mom doesn't get much help from a drunk care giver.

I disagree with this. If OP can manage outpatient therapy and rehab then that's his best choice, with a plan for inpatient rehab after his mother has gone. He's not lying about elder care facilities.

OP, I think it’s smart to stay away from marijuana. It can add complication to your situation.

R80, you’re lucky you had 4 friends who cared enough to text after a weekend like that. We all joke about sex here, but it’s no fun to fend off a belligerent drunk who won’t take no for an answer. You seem like you understand how deep your problem is. No sense in fantasizing over lemon Bacardi. You’ve probably drunk enough for 2 lifetimes. I think you know you are not a casual drinker. I wish you the best!

*I'VE had belligerent drunks be after me who won't take no for an answer. It's horrible and the idea that I was one of them is profoundly humiliating. I walk around like an open wound all day long.

R124 Good suggestions. Sometimes I overthink things; it's great if something that simple helps. Now it's on my list.

Wow, reading about how easily these rehab centers pop up is a real eye-opener. They must be like 'senior living centers' -- just big money makers for unscrupulous people. Thanks for the warnings.

R80 Don't live with the regret. Your friends will forgive you. You and OP are on a new road now.

R134 they may forgive this transgression, but forgiveness is not an unlimited resource. It is better to go to recovery before you are too sloppy too many times.

What R135 said.

A 40 year friendship that I have valued greatly seems to be over. My friend was already an alcoholic when we met in 1979 and through the years there have been many slips and many recoveries. For the most part, it was mostly self-contained and he sustained most of the injury. But of late, his bitterness and anger have grown exponentially. All of which was compounded by the last relapse involving crystal meth. Angry texts. Angry phone calls. Angry late-night drive-by emails. He now flies into a rage, or overtly seethes, when he encounters a disagreement from anyone.

For most of 40 years, I was not treated like a punching bag. And going forward without him, I won't be treated like a punching bag. That's the best I can do. And I'm not alone. A few other friends are also done.

So, yes, OP. If you can, get it fixed. AA offers a lot of bromides that probably do help as one picks up the pieces and starts again. But some of the injuries to others caused along the way cannot be repaired with bromides.

[quote] *I'VE had belligerent drunks be after me who won't take no for an answer. It's horrible and the idea that I was one of them is profoundly humiliating. I walk around like an open wound all day long.

R80, just do better next time (and the time after that). Otherwise, you won't have friends texting you afterwards to find out how you are doing. Make some changes while you still have people who care about you. No more alcohol. Find something else that you like.

How are you doing, OP?

R138 Thanks for asking! I'm still sober. Going to my first AA meeting in about 2 hours (at 10am here) so a little nervous. I have to say, I slept a solid eight last night; didn't wake up once. Felt pretty great! I'm thinking about R80 now and how he's doing...

Op, since you don't have family or support after rehab,, I do suggest you try AA again. Because you need the structure.

Just for the beginning you need to go everyday and get a sponsor. It doesn't have to be somebody super higher power or big book. I had a sponsor who when I felt like drinking would say, go to a meeting. Your can find ones that aren't preachy. Now if you have family and support and it wasn't your thing it wouldn't be the first thing from me to say.

Drinking for me was a symptom of a bigger problem. It was a way to numb my emotional problems. If that is your situation, maybe you could seek psychotherapy to get at your demons.

Also if you have an addictive personality find something healthy to replace the urge to drink. Usually it's food. But make it exercise. Become a gym addict and get fit and fuckable,

R140 Oh to be fit and fuckable again! Psychotherapy is an excellent idea. I made an appointment to see a clinical psychologist but I don't think that's going to be as helpful as seeing a psychotherapist or someone specializing in addiction counseling. I had a bad experience with an addiction counselor years ago so I'm a little wary about trying that again. But one bad experience shouldn't queer me on the whole profession.

I'm going to an AA meeting today too. My shrink told me he thinks I'm an alcoholic. I suppose he's right.

R80 Good to hear from you. I was concerned. I'm on my way to my first also. A little shaky about this...

Good luck, OP. The more tools you have, the better. Each professional is different. They bring their own good and bad personality to the profession. So, looks like you had a bad one. Try someone else.

5 Alternatives to the AA Approach

OP, get on Hulu and binge watch episodes of MOM. You'll get a deep dive into all the AA lingo, but also a lot of context on how the program can work. It's a comedy. The episodes are not long. But they are beautifully written by some writers who obviously know addiction and recovery and they are wonderfully performed.

With a bit of humor to ease the way, you might this helps you to make peace with AA.

Have you been to an AA meeting yet, OP? Got a home group? A sponsor?

We'll be your Sponsor, OP!!!

R147 YES, I went to my first AA meeting this afternoon. There was a rather pushy guy who want me to meet him at a meeting this evening but I'm not going to attend. Only because the guy gave me the creeps. BUT everyone else there was really nice and five of them broke off to do a 'first timers' session with me in a different room. They talked about their experiences and came across as very sincere. The only one who put me off was that creepy guy I mentioned. He was in that small group but I picked up on the fact that the others were exchanging glances when he was 'preaching' at me...there's no other word but that's what he was doing. He kept after me as I was walking to my car and I was grateful two other guys followed us and basically rescued me from him. I won't be going to the meeting he suggested tonight. I will definitely try another meeting - and hopefully go back to this one. This was about 20 guys, all ages. Very welcoming and no pressure to get me to talk about anything. No, I don't have a sponsor, didn't ask for one. I know that creepy guy really wants to be one but that's not going to happen. I really appreciate R148's suggestion! DL posters got me this far!

Now I want to hear how it R80 did at his first meeting --- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Congrats, R149. Hard earned congrats. Well deserved.

Bravo, baby!

Congratulations, OP. Don't let that preaching guy stop you from benefiting. If he's so perfect, why's he at an AA meeting.

R151 The really weird part is that he 'warned' me that there would be members who would try to get close to me because I'm new and in a vulnerable position. Yeah, super creepy. But I'm thinking that he just wants to be a 'savior' type.

Proud of you, OP. I remember how good it felt when I first started sleeping normally and getting quality night's rest. You'll start noticing tons of little benefits like that.

Still rooting for you! And now I'm also rooting for R80 too!

OP, the sense of accomplishment you’ll have will be tremendous.

Did anyone say that there are Gay meetings? In my city, there are two great meetings that are all Gay or Gay friendly, but are not labeled in the directory as Gay. So I suggest you go to a gay-labeled meeting, if any, and ask if there are others. Oh, there’s a directory with local meetings listed. You’ve got to have that.

My sponsor was a young lawyer, a former fall-down drunk, and a great guy. He practices high up in the federal courts, now. He was laidback and exactly what I wanted. There are all kinds of sponsors. Most here will say they’ll be your temporary sponsor, if asked, to avoid hurt feelings and make it easier to switch, if desired.

The only time I felt an urgent need to go to a meeting was the night my Mom died. I spoke to her before I left my house, and when I got there two hours away, she had died. It was the associated family drama that prompted me to go to the meeting, mostly just to have somewhere to go.

It was funny because it was a Men’s meeting, there was one out Gay guy in a group of about eight men. He didn’t feel excepted. The group went through their proforma routine. Finally it was my turn to talk. Now, this was a small town. I’ll bet this meeting doesn’t get visitors often if ever. People do get bored with the same old stories from the regulars and they were probably as eager to hear me speak as I was to talk. It was nice to just talk about it, that night.

I would suggest (if it applies) that you accept that your life is better not drinking. If you truly believe that, then preserving it shouldn’t be hard. No one’s going to sneak up on you and pour a drink down your throat. You have to be the one who DOESN’T WANT to pour a drink down your own throat.

If you can’t accept that your life is better sober, then just go ahead and do whatever and drink whatever you want. No one’s twisting your arm.

^ “Accepted”, not excepted.

I went to that meeting a year later to thank them again and tell them I was still sober.

I had to work till 9 pm and hadn't yet eaten. So I didn't go to one, but I will. It's not 515am, I didn't drink, and I'm on my way to a personal training session. So things are...ok?

Go, R80! Go!

R80 Good to hear from you! Everyone here really encourages the value of exercising, working out. That seems to be a part of your life now so that must be a great outlet for you. Keep it up. Please let us know if you do attend a meeting, AA or otherwise. Keep it up!

I think you need a real therapist/psychologist. It's clear you've found yourself in addictive cycles and don't have many people to turn to for support. Maybe having a good person to talk to will help you get to the root of these problems so you aren't stumbling into addiction yet again with little clue what drives it.

I really encourage you to seek out counselling one on one. Group stuff can help, but is impersonal.

I also recommend swimming. Go to the Y, do some slow laps every day. Very soothing, low chance of injury, great for putting your mind at ease.

Look up Facebook groups in your area for things you might be interested in, like volunteering or watching genre movies.

Or refocus on your career a bit or develop a side hustle.

I'm pulling for you OP!

R161 All good suggestions. I have an appointment to see an addiction counselor although I'm thinking I probably should see a psychotherapist. Attended an AA meeting yesterday for the first time. I've just applied to the local Hunger Force to see if I anything to offer as a volunteer. I'm trying to find ways to fill my time that aren't harmful. The movie idea is great, I never thought of finding a group that enjoys movies. I've enjoyed film for years but usually attended alone. When I was younger, I enjoyed writing - even sold a couple pieces to magazines - but never took it seriously. Maybe it's time to refocus. Thank you so much for taking the time to make those suggestions. I appreciate it.

I have an appointment with my shrink today (my third of the week). I'm meeting a friend at the gym tomorrow (I actually work out a great deal). The problem is that I left work last night at 9 and was so stressed out and tired that I was craving a drink. What's worse is that yesterday was BEER CART day at work, so someone went by my desk with a cart loaded with beer and wine. It was a lot. I was successful but sheesh that was hard.

OMG - Beer cart day at work? What the hell is that? Where do you work? I must be so sheltered. But how great that you're tempted so blatantly even at work and you were able to decline. You are one strong man! Keep it up!

Hi R80, remember HALTT - avoid being Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, and Thirsty. Notice that at the end of work you were tired and probably hungry - and craved a drink. It is surprising how simple it can be to avoid these things, and automatically feel stronger and better able to resist backsliding. [italic] Try to set yourself up to succeed! [/italic] I’m wishing you & OP all the success you really crave!

Oh, I might mention, it is not uncommon to gain a little weight when you quit drinking. You’ll lose any alcoholic bloat you might have, and any puffiness in your face, but you might otherwise gain weight. Don’t let that distract you. If you can’t avoid it in the first place, which I recommend, say to yourself, “I can lose the weight after I’ve stabilized my sobriety. Today, I have to focus on that.”, and “There will always be excuses why the ‘current time’ is especially hard to stay sober. There is never a ‘good’ time. This is the time.”

I also liked to remind myself that most of the time, it is not hard to resist a drink. But when it was, I would say to myself [italic] “I knew there would be hard times, this is it, and it is what I prepared for. This time is what I heard so much about in meetings, and what I spent so much time preparing for. Not for the easy times, but for this time. I will get through this, and then I can be proud of having done so. I’ll be able to share my experience with other newly sober people, to help them through their difficult times when they’re getting sober. Most of all, when I get to the other side of this, it will get easy again, and I will find that the grip that alcohol has on me will be lessened greatly.” [/italic]

I used the above when my Father died a few months after I got sober, and my Niece a week later, and my Mom two years later. I don’t need to use it now as I rarely think of alcohol at all.

I work in an ad agency and there's booze all over the place. All work events (which I usually avoid) are all alcohol-centered. And yes, I was hungry and tired and stressed out.

Funny thing is, I quit drinking for like 6 months about a year ago and dropped like 15 lbs without even trying. I look forward to doing that again. I'm gonna look fucking hot.

R80 I agree! I've already lost a couple pounds. R166 warns about gaining weight but I think losing all the empty calories from booze is helping me lose weight. And - yeah - you ARE going to be fucking hot especially you're working out.

[quote]R196 What's worse is that yesterday was BEER CART day at work, so someone went by my desk with a cart loaded with beer and wine. It was a lot. I was successful but sheesh that was hard.

Bring a healthy (or unhealthy!) snack with you for beer cart day. Then you’ll get a treat when it passes by instead of feeling deprived.

Notice who else in the office passes it up. You might be able to find someone likeminded at work : )

In my city, there is an unlisted noontime meeting in the financial district for business types. Word of mouth only. I went once. It was packed in a big room, standing room only, maybe 150 guys (mostly guys); but I preferred the evening Gay meetings.

A funny thing. When in my suit, in the hallway, looking bewildered as to what room the meeting might be in, a man said to me, “Are you looking for a meeting?” That was a discreet way of asking, to respect the anonymity of the program. It’s a good thing to remember if you want to refer to it in public.

Sounds like something out of Eyes Wide Shut! "Are you looking for a meeting?" What if the poor ass was trying to find a nearby AA meeting? I'm laughing. So what happens at this 'unlisted noontime meeting'? Is it for drinking (this post is about alcohol) or sex or what? Being in a big 'standing room only' kind of room, I guess it can't be sex. Unless most of the attendees are gymnasts or contortionists. Hmmm. Weight Watchers? Was everyone on the chubby side? I'm out of ideas. So what kind of meeting was it?

There was also another unlisted Gay meeting for a small group. Attending was usually a lawyer who was an advisor to the Mayor; two Judges; a partner at another law firm; an anesthesiologist; a Harvard graduate, me, and some riff-raff. New people were welcome and it was my favorite meeting. I write this because we all know about the alcoholic Skid-Row hobo, but I wanted to demonstrate that alcoholics can also be very accomplished people. We are part of the general public.

Oh so it was a meeting of recovering alcoholics. Didn't need all the pedigrees but thanks!

But do they wear their suits when they fly?

R172 Oooh, and some 'riff raff' -- how generous of the group to allow them access. Plus 'new people' were welcome. Do they have to show credentials or can they be accepted if the 'riff raff' quota hasn't been met at that meeting. I can't wait for the 'lawyer/advisor to the Mayor' to read this. Not too subtle, studly.

The advisor to the Mayor died for non-alcoholic reasons, so he’s not reading anything. The phrase “riff-raff” was used in jest. You’re not the only one who can try to be funny. Give it a rest. The meeting was held in a kind of grotto. It was unheated, so if was tough in the Winter. I am grateful to the long timers who attended when it was 40°, to tend to their own sobriety, but also to help the new people, the riff-raff like me, get a good foundation in sobriety. I’ve always said that felt that the regular attendees in my meetings were also my sponsors, they were so helpful.

R174, I’ve missed the “fly” reference, though. Please help me!

Drunk yet?? It’s most likely what will happen.

There is a subset of DL members, r176, who post with regret that we no longer dress up to go on an airplane, the way our grandparents might have in the 1950s. The implication is that people who wear suits are better, somehow, than people who don't. In r172, you give the impression you might be one of those fucks.

Oh, I see, thank you, R178.

Thanks again, R178. I should add that there is also a subset of people on DataLounge who assert that alcoholics or others with addiction problems are mental defects, bad people, losers, and so forth. Even sober. I’ve seen it in other threads, and I just wanted to say that people can have problems, address them, and rejoin the community of people. I wasn’t clear originally, and I regret it.

Don't look at me, OP. I'm working on downing a Heineken and a shot of SAMBVCA.

If you black out after a beer and a shot, you must be like a 10 year old girl.

R182 = Posting on his way to the liquor store for another liter of whiskey and a case of Coors.

Could you put in a request at work to not bring the Temptation Cart around you? You don't have to tell them you have a drinking problem if that would make things awkward. Just say you have a digestive issue (think reflux) and are on medication and alcohol causes it to flare up and you don't want to be tempted.

What kind of idiotic boss makes alcohol widely available in the workplace? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

The question is, what is more important to you than drinking alcohol?

R184 - It's a little stupid, for sure, but there's such an ingrained drinking culture there, I'm sure no one even thinks that someone would hate it.

I was told not to expect anybody to change their behavior to accommodate me. Especially about sobriety. There’s too much alcohol in our culture for that. I think you just have to learn to tolerate it. Though, maybe you could get up and get a cigarette when the cart comes by?

I went to brunch this weekend with a friend. I ordered iced tea. He said "Wow you're really doing this?" "Yes, I'm really doing this."

[quote] maybe you could get up and get a cigarette when the cart comes by?

Ewwwww! Better to just have a drink than to light up. Alcoholism is unfortunate but tobacco use is flat-out disgusting.

There's an AA group that meets across the street from my office (right above a bar). There's usually 10-15 people smoking outside after any given meeting.

And?

I liked AA and it was important to my first getting sober -- but I kept slipping. So I finally quit counting days, said it was forever, did alcohol free beer so I could still have the prop, got sick of that at some point so stopped once I was weaned -- and now it's been 28 years. Once it is out of your body (cigarettes too), it really is easy as long as you stay out of your own way.

Embrace the joy that comes with it too, no more cops or sick or depressed. Even with all the usual life things -- death, success, failure -- I have never gone back. I like being clear headed and feeling everything, even the bad stuff. I don't pretend to be an expert (that too is dangerous) but hope that helps. Good luck.

I'd constantly get depressed after a bender. Being sober isn't a magic cure-all for everything that's wrong with me, but a lot of the easy stuff is cleared away.