Joaquin's attack on dairy at the Osacrs

That’s speciesism!

I don't understand the specific use of the argument "it's not natural" regarding the production of dairy. As if the vast majority of things humans do are "natural." Is it natural to go to the moon? To film a movie? To wear clothes? Somehow it's okay for us to do a variety of unnatural things... but drinking cow's milk is off limits because it's "unnatural"? This angle of their argument has always bothered me. We do SO MANY weird & "unnatural" things!!!

If you knew the truth about the dairy industry, you'd know how disgusting it truly is.

....

The guy is so fucking exhausting. Why does he have to turn every speech into a lecture? I hope no one hires him from now on.

Sorry r5, unless he dies or retires, I'm pretty sure that he'll act again.

I'm equally pretty sure I'm going to avoid his movies, r6.

Why is anyone surprised that a vegan made a speech on factory farming and exploitation of animals as a whole?

You all know he's right.

He needs to retire to some farm somewhere. He's obviously too pure for Hollywood.

He was correct. Deplorables are coming out of the woodwork claiming “exhaustion” because the heard truth

[quote] You all know he's right.

No, dear. [italic]You[/italic] are certainly not the determiner nor the interpreter of my ethical compass, though you clearly seem to think you are.

But [italic]you[/italic] do know you're blocked, however.

Farewell forever, Little Miss Preachy! I will miss you not...

Although I mock, I don't really care what they want to yap about when they win tbh, it's their moment and it's over in a couple minutes. But I was surprised when it turned into a cows' rights thing.

[quote] No, dear. You are certainly not the determiner nor the interpreter of my ethical compass,

No one said I was a determiner of your ethical compass, quite the contrary. I'm a judge and a critic of it, as is Joaquin.

They’re trying to raise people’s consciousness. It’s not about attacking people who don’t know the truth. It’s about opening their eyes and minds.

Did his ass ride to the Oscars on a leather seat?

A cow can’t milk itself. It’s painful for them not to be milked so humans are doing them a favor by milking them. The same way marine biologists are doing dolphins favors by jerking them off.

I've never understood why telling someone you've blocked them is supposed to be some kind of threat or deterrent. Before blocking, many of these types can't disagree without also making a personal attack.

What it suggests is that you can't handle someone whose opinion differs from yours. Go ahead and block. Cover your ears and close your eyes to maintain your personal echo chamber.

R16, I don't think that was Joaquin's real point. What do you think happens to all those calves born just so the cows can produce milk? They are used for veal.

MOOOO

I don't understand his implication that cows have to have given birth in order to produce milk. Milk cows just produce milk, don't they? They're not constantly pregnant and giving birth are they?

Only on Real Housecows of New Jersey, R20.

I'd drink his man-milk, harelip and all.

I dated a guy who grew up on a dairy farm. He said his family could never sleep late since the cows would be mooing, desperately needing to be milked. If you eliminated dairy, you'd have to allow breeds like Jerseys and Guernseys to go extinct.

R20, according to Wikipedia's article on dairy cattle:

[quote]To maintain lactation, a dairy cow must be bred and produce calves. . . Female calves (heifers) with dairy breeding may be kept as replacement cows for the dairy herd. If a replacement cow turns out to be a substandard producer of milk, she then goes to market and can be slaughtered for beef. Male calves can either be used later as a breeding bull or sold and used for veal or beef.

[quote]Domestic cows can live to 20 years; however, those raised for dairy rarely live that long, as the average cow is removed from the dairy herd around age six and marketed for beef. In 2014, approximately 9.5% of the cattle slaughtered in the U.S. were culled dairy cows: cows that can no longer be seen as an economic asset to the dairy farm.

Also:

[quote]Intensive systems focus towards maximum production per cow in the herd. This involves formulating their diet to provide ideal nutrition and housing the cows in a confinement system such as free stall or tie stall. These cows are housed indoors throughout their lactation and may be put to pasture during their 60-day dry period before ideally calving again.

Is R16 really that stupid?

No, he's trolling. See the comment about the dolphins.

Indy 500 winner Alexander Rossi: “Congrats, Joaquin!”

I"’ve been selfish. I’ve been cruel at times, hard to work with,..."

we know

Back on the sauce again, is he?!

So, no milk?

He's crazy. He's accepting an award and he's babbling about cows. The NY Post expressed it well describing the "out-of-his-mind Joaquin Phoenix rambling like a street bum about the unspeakable injustices of cow’s milk:

“We feel entitled to artificially inseminate a cow and when she gives birth,” Phoenix said to virtually no one’s amusement while clutching his best actor trophy for “The Joker,” “we steal her baby even though her cries of anguish are unmistakable and then we take her milk that’s intended for her calf and we put it in our coffee and our cereal.”

He added: “I have been a scoundrel, selfish, cruel at times and hard to work with, ungrateful.”

At this point, the audience quietly wished Kanye West would come onstage to snatch the award out of his hand and praise Beyoncé.

Thanks for ruining my coffee, asshole.

Damn, makes me nostalgic for Vanessa Redgrave.

Or that Oscars streaker.

Damn, makes me nostalgic for Vanessa Redgrave.

Or that Oscars streaker.

His message could have been conveyed more effectively by Sacheen Littlefeather.

He's right though. It's cruel to keep these animals pregnant just to provide milk production and the whole thing, from artificial insemination, to calves sold for veal, to constantly preggo cows, sucks. Humans don't need to consume cow milk. He may have ruined cheese for me.

He's a vegan at least, so I'll listen to him lecture about the dairy industry since he actually backs up what he's saying with his lifestyle. So many celebs lecture (especially about climate change) but do nothing to change their own lifestyles. Joaquin isn't wrong, and he's not being a hypocrite on this one either, so for that, he deserves credit. I'm glad he also touched upon issues faced by Indigenous people face, a topic you rarely hear celebrities bring up.

I didn't take it as explicitly about veganism, but he was trying to make a broader point.

The fact that some of you are hagging about very granular details means you C L E A R L Y missed his point.

[quote] The NY Post

If we're looking to the NY Post for guidance or clarity, we're fucked.

A woman leaving a fur salon was confronted by a PETA member ... “Do you know how many animals were sacrificed for that coat?” She replied ... “Do you know how many animals I had to screw for this coat?”

That's an old Joan Rivers joke!

It wasn't specifically about veganism, R39, but used the plight of dairy cows to help make his point, which was fair for him to do in my opinion.

R40 if a same word-for-word story appeared in The New York Times, you'd give them a Noble Prize.

[quote] They’re trying to raise people’s consciousness. It’s not about attacking people who don’t know the truth. It’s about opening their eyes and minds.

That may be true, but it comes across as hectoring and judging. And there's an element of moral superiority about it.

I was posting on the run up-thread, and didn't have time to make a point. Just as there are endangered species of animals and plants, there are endangered breeds of domestic animals and cultivated plants. The Cherokee Nation recently deposited several heirloom seeds in the Svalbard Global Seed Vault. There are very rare breeds of many domestic animals that are facing extinction. The cycle that Joaquin mentions is very much a part of modern industrial farming. But not all farming is done on the industrial level. Some of these domestic or semi-domestic breeds date back many centuries, and originated in very specific conditions. I think it's good if we become more sensitive and aware: I've cut back my consumption of animal products pretty dramatically in the last 10 years. My friend who lived on a dairy farm was very sensitive to the needs of his family's cows: they were all named, and his family would take it badly when any would die. The very reason their farm wasn't very successful was because his family didn't have the ruthlessness that an industrial outfit would bring. I have neighbors who raise chickens, and while they're ostensibly for eggs, it's clear there's more there, in some cases.

Industrial farming has basically killed the family farm, R46. Watch Sustainable on Netflix where they talk about small time farmers like your friend's family trying to make a go of it in the industrialized world of greed and profit.

I know Joaquin personally, through my job. I don't know him personally as a friend, but am friendly with him. He is a very complicated person and always, always seems sad to me. Even when something strikes him as funny and he is laughing, he defaults back to sad very quickly. I know he feels strongly about being a vegan but he never preaches one to one, so it always is a surprise when he gives a speech like last night. So humble in most ways and completely unpretentious, a decent man. I hope he finds a little more inner peace, somehow, someway.

Omg.

I thought Joaquin and Brads speaches' were well delivered, honest and well played.

Cunt away if you like. Well done by both.

r50 He has an air of innocence about him... too innocent, too good.

He’s a jackass.

R20 Just because you didn't know your facts doesn't mean the horror is not going on. How and why do you think the cows create milk in their udders?? Same way human women do-- they get pregnant. That's the only way it happens. Without babies forming inside us (and/or cows), there is no milk made. There would be no point and ho hormones to initiate the milk process.

Imagine the idea of taking away a newborn human baby from its mother just after birth while the mother screams and wails in anguish. And then putting that infant in a cage, and fattening him or her up (and atrophying it's muscles in said cage) until you kill the baby for it's tender meat. And all this just to pump the breast milk created by this pregnancy from the mommie's boobies, for some other whole unrelated species to mindlessly pour on their cereal. This is repeated several times with the same mother. And then you finally kill off this tortured mother after she is exhausted from being a human milk machine. And then you eat her, too.

LOL...

[quote] I hope he finds a little more inner peace, somehow, someway.

How can he find serenity with only his millions and millions of dollars to sustain him?

I can think of no other person more truly worthy of your sympathy and prayers.

Is he a true vegan? He's a little overweight to be a vegan unless he eats almost nothing but nuts.

"If we're looking to the NY Post for guidance or clarity, we're fucked."

Well, it was right about Joaquin Phoenix. He is indeed "out of his mind", if he ever had one.

He should win a Nobel Peace prize. He will end racism and all forms of oppression in the western world, all by himself. He is that great..

He grew up in a cult. He can't help it.

I think the wrong Phoenix brother may have died that night so long ago. Although I get the feeling River would be just as insufferable, had he lived.

He is not wrong.

He is not wrong.

He is not an artist. This troll never did theatre in his pathetic life. And never will, because he doesn't have the talent for it.

Vegans are deeply disturbed individuals. The ones I personally know have one thing in common: they were molested as kids.

R64 A pedophile cult.

When are the luvvies going to start lecturing the Third World about their animal keeping practices? Way crueler than the West.

Guess he'll never get a "Got Milk?" campaign.

I've found that the loudest, most reactionary vegans have NO problem inhaling mashed potatoes from Boston Market at 2AM when they have the drunk munchies.

Producing veal in order to produce milk. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Joaquin and those scolds like him need to have their incisors ( aka dog teeth) yanked since they don't need 'em for gumming their tofu.

That would make a better statement than a speech.

No one is saying he's wrong, but I don't need an actor to preach to me about how I choose to live. Go to the set, act, then move on to the next job. He is the prime example of why the ratings on these award shows are sinking faster than the Titanic.

Why would he bring up cows when we have an untethered pig in the White House?

The great thing about vegans is that they've done everything in their power to make themselves seem as crazy as possible, so they'll never be taken seriously. Joaquin can make whatever dramatic speeches he wants, all I see is a crazy man up on a stage.

His whole family is nuts. His mother said that her son River Phoenix's drug taking (she denied he was an addict) and appalling drug death (he died on Halloween, flopping around like a fish on the sidewalk outside the Viper Room) was his way of protesting what was being done to the environment! At his memorial his family was bleating about how it was his time to go, he was too good and gentle for this world, he'd gone on to be with God up in heaven, all that goony crap, until finally the director John Boorman stood up and said "does anybody know why River took all those drugs?" That was a much needed dose of reality.

I never get why gays - an oppressed group - aren't more sympathetic to the plight of animals. Most people here are almost gleeful in how much they don't care.

R74 Nothing to do with being raped at the age of 4 by lunatic hippies then?

Good for Boorman.

What about the Gays needing to be milked? Hands off the Dolphins and how about giving us a tug!!!

R75 Because we're not animals, Rose, we're people. The oppression of gay men and the natural dynamic of the animal kingdom are not comparable.

R75 The fact that you're comparing homophobia to the dairy business tells me that not only are you a moron, but you're a heterosexual moron trying to preach at gays to boot.

This was the most fucking stupid Oscars speech I have ever heard

I wonder which actor from the Blind Item mooed at him at the post Oscar celebrations. I know i would have!

[quote]A famous film actor just couldn’t help himself at one of the Oscars after parties. Joaquin Phoenix was there with his family and Rooney [Mara]. A lot of people were coming up and congratulating him on his Oscar.

[quote]Then along came another movie star.[Movie Star] just walked by him and said, “Mooooo.” Joaquin didn’t seem to think that was funny and just gave him a look.

R80 I don't know I still hate Leo's climate change speech more. It was annoying to see him stand up there and scold people knowing he flies his twelve year old model girlfriends all around the world for vacations on private jets.

Who is taking care of the cattle if we stop using them for milk/ meat production? The vegans? Joaquin fucking Phoenix? Give me a break. They have no place in nature anymore, you can't just release them. They wanna "save" them by make them extinct. Zero plans or consideration, they care just enough to feel like they are better than the rest.

I don't think most of the people there really cared, they already know he's a nut. Aside from his fucked up upbringing and watching his brother die in front of him (which completely ruined him), he's a well known alcoholic who has gotten close to drinking himself to death on a multitude of occasions. I'm sure the actors and actresses at the ceremony last night probably just wrote it off as another demonstration of mental illness (and probably added him to a death pool).

lol, that's your argument in favour of the dairy industry, R83? Wow.

Nobody in Hollywood is surprised by Phoenix's mental problems and tragic state anymore. He's the Britney Spears of cinema.

r78 and r79 yes i am comparing humans to other animals. We're all animals - just different species. One species shouldn't get to inflict suffering on another species when there is no need to. Those of us who have suffered and who do suffer should do more to minimize the suffering of others.

Idiot.

I can understand where vegans are coming from. They think it’s an atrocity and don’t want to sit back and be silent. They really believe it’s evil and their hearts are in the right place.

R87 Baby, they're animals. And we aren't inflicting suffering on them for the purpose of inflicting suffering on them, it isn't as if we're driving around shooting puppies, we're eating livestock. It's what people have been doing since the dawn of time and what people will do until the end. Sure, there are facets of modern farming that suck, but due to how many mouths there are to feed in this country and the way that food pricing works, it's practically unavoidable unless you have the money to afford cage-free shit.

But to compare the oppression of gays to what livestock goes through while farming is being either willfully idiotic or insane. Call me when a cows start getting thrown off of buildings, or castrated, or set on fire for being cows. Also call me when the law allows that sort of needless violence against them without repercussions.

Seriously...so many ignorant people on this site who know nothing about the dairy industry or cows in general, I grew up on a farm and milked cows when I was a teen.

These vegan activists just spew nonsense with no personal experience or knowledge.

p. s. cows do not exist in the wilderness. If meat and dairy were banned, they would quickly go extinct as they were developed for the sole purpose of providing food. Unless you want to be India and just let them roam unfettered. That sounds like fun. 🐮

We've also been raping and killing other humans since the dawn of time, R90.

Industrial farming is torture and causes extreme suffering. I'm not a vegan, so I'm complicit in that torture. If vegans have an air of moral superiority it's probably because they are objectively morally superior. Realistic meat substitutes cannot come soon enough for moral weaklings like myself. The Beyond Burger is very close.

R81 I have a guess...

In Texas, I have mainly met vegans that did it because they had such bad eating habits they had to do something drastic. Being vegan meant getting rid of the most tempting foods.

I even knew a doctor who would prescribe this diet for old people who were too resistant to taking various heart medications.

The judgy vegan thing is probably true for some new, YOUNG vegans. When new young people get into anything, they can get a little too loud about it.

*Joaquin's family escaped an abusive cult, I think this is one thing he held on to since he never really ate meat or was exposed to BBQ loving bros.

I do my best to respect vegetarian and vegan points of view. But sometimes, a certain kind of fanaticism takes over. Apparently honey isn't appropriately vegan. There's a guy up on the next street who keeps bees, and the way he looks out for them is touching. I'm Midwestern, and I've been around a lot of livestock, so my point of view is influenced by that. I love animals, and hate cruelty. How about horses? Bred just so a human being can climb up and ride them. I've seen the bonds between people and horses, between people and cattle, and chickens, and geese. Industrial farming sucks, but some of us have the option to support alternatives.

I haven't drank milk since I was a baby, but I love veal.

He's absolutely right, but I'm still not giving up dairy except for milk which I don't drink.

Cheese, butter/ghee, heavy cream and ice cream - not giving it up.

So you're trying to argue that the cruelty of industrial animal husbandry is unfortunate but unavoidable, r90? The greatest feat our agricultural industry has accomplished is keeping us ignorant of the scale of suffering that underpins their profits. Of course, people get so snowflake defensive about their dietary choices that anyone who does draw their attention to the REAL cost of all that steak & milk is dismissed as a 'crazy, judgemental vegan'.

He's Hollywood's newest Patricia Marquette.

R98, it's no picnic for the people (many illegal immigrants) who work in these places, so it's hell all around. Same with sweatshops making your clothes.

a) The dairy industry is crueler than the beef industry.

b) If you think global warming is real and you haven't given up beef and dairy, you're a lazy-ass hypocrite.

I remember when River died and it came out in his last few years that he’d occasionally eat meat and dairy, and the clean-living PETA thing was an image he was trapped in, especially after the harder drug use began.

I'm very very suspicious of those who reject the occasional All American Meal that includes 🍔 a Big Mac, 🍟 large fries, and your 🍺beverage of choice.

🍦 Don't forget a dairy treat !

r90 Billions of farm animals are tortured and killed every single year for human consumption when none of it is necessary. We can thrive and even live longer when we eat plants. The suffering of gays doesn't even begin to compare.

PETA would probably be considered more credible if they weren’t fucking insane.

This year, they decided the best way to spend their time was to decry the poor working conditions of Punxatawny Phil the groundhog. Yeah, that’s not nuts.

The dairy and beef industry are terrible for the environment as is corn (all the pesticides and herbicides) which is primarily grown as animal feed.

[quote]Vegetarians, in my experience, are usually pretty tolerant of others who do not hold with their beliefs

That's been experience with most of the vegetarians I know/knew. My former boss was a vegetarian and didn't care if others ate meat. But, she mentioned that her husband would constantly shame people for eating meat and she was even sometimes annoyed with him.

R99 I think he's worse than Patty.

The Academy Awards is SO not the time and place for politics or causes. Those assholes who use it as a platform for whatever beliefs they have make me sick.

Joaquin isn’t wrong, but I don’t think I could be vegan.

Try it R110, you'd be surprised.

I don't think cows having babies once a year is cruel or punishing. What's awful is taking their babies from them right after they're born. That's really terrible.

A friend of mine worked in a slaughterhouse. It paid really well, but he spent everything on coke to deal with the horrors he saw and heard every day.

Joaquin's speech is why Trump WILL win in November.

I love his approach to awards season. All of the emotionally stunted, anti-social, MRA/incel trolls that were up his ass about how amazing Joker was for challenging the left's views on who deserves sympathy and how phenomenal Joaquin's performance was and how he (and the film) deserves to rake in awards, must be losing their shit with every lefty acceptance speach he gives.

If we stop producing beef, poultry, pork, etc., who the fuck do you think the Chinese will come for next? They'll fatten us up....even more! I don't want to be on a lazy Susan next to the fried rice!

Vegans live in a bubble and are unable to see any side other than their own. I applaud all of you in this thread trying to reason with them, but it's a fruitless pursuit.

R113, slaughter workers have much higher rates of mental illness and lower life expectancy than the general population. Almost all have PTSD. Animal agriculture is cruel to humans.

[quote]I never get why gays - an oppressed group - aren't more sympathetic to the plight of animals.

We are an oppressed group of [bold]human beings.[/bold]

True, we are indeed also animals; but there is absolutely nothing in the Declaration of Independence that says "All animals are created equal."

Were that true, then swatting a mosquito would be murder.

R119 You make a great point, but you're attempting to reason with a crazy person who thinks that it's better to be a violent homophobe than to eat a Big Mac, so it'll fall on deaf ears.

i don't want to listen to him, merely look at him.

he is weird but sexy as hell.

R118, no surprise. I don't know why we act like cops are so brave and we act like they have the most dangerous job when they aren't even in the 10 of deadliest jobs, but these types of jobs are in the the top ten.

What do vegans do when their pantry's get weevils or similar infestation? I imagine it's not uncommon when your diet is heavy in grains. I asked a vegan once but he didn't answer.

You buy a friggin set of oxo, R123!

r123, there's an episode of "Six Feet Under" where Lili Taylor plays Peter Krause's vegan girlfriend who tries to reason with an army of ants invading her kitchen ("Go away, ants... go away...")

Maybe some of those incel fans will listen to his speech, take it to heart and become better people because of it.

[quote]I don't understand the specific use of the argument "it's not natural" regarding the production of dairy. As if the vast majority of things humans do are "natural."

Dental fillings, pacemakers, and eye glasses aren't "natural," but most of us aren't willing to avoid them. However, the way factory farm animals are fed and treated is disgusting and no other species consumes milk regularly in adulthood, so those types of "unnatural" are worth being concerned about.

[quote]He's a little overweight to be a vegan unless he eats almost nothing but nuts.

Most non-raw vegans I know eat grain-heavy diets. Grain fattens up feed animals and in excess of our activity levels, us.

My friend told me that her dream lifestyle was to forage for raw food, weather permitting.

People are fascinated by us. They look at us for guidance and spiritual/political/social enlightenment. Because we have achieved the highest level of human accomplishment. We have a responsability towards humanity. They need us. We are the chosen.

r123 What do YOU do when your pantry is full of weevils?

Poison them

^^^ but I'm not a vegan

I’m so grateful he talked about this.

Once you know the truth, and see it, there’s no going back.

Next to eggs, it’s the cruelest.

[quote] no other species consumes milk regularly in adulthood,

But as you yourself pointed out, there are many things human beings do that no other animal does (such as use eyeglasses, wear prosthetics we make, domesticate fire); and yet, we still do them.

Moreover, humans have been drinking cow's milk for the last five to eleven thousand years, since the development of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution. It goes back as far in human history as writing, and even earlier.

[quote] Once you know the truth, and see it, there’s no going back.

That's not really true, is it? Six billion people the world over drink milk.

The world doesn't eat your north American diet, r135. There are billions out there who don't drink cow's milk (& are all the healthier for it).

I'm unsurprised he's a vegan. It's easy to maintain the vegan lifestyle when you've been on the Humphrey Bogart diet for the past 27 years. There aren't many animal products to be found in the liquor cabinet.

OP, excuse me but it's the pro-choicers who are the fucking judgiest of all. Them and retard socialists.

I’m a big fan of Joaquin the actor but not the vegan preaching. He won’t touch meat or diary but is a-okay with drinking his body weight in alcohol. Same with River and his love affair with drugs.

[quote] The world doesn't eat your north American diet, r135. There are billions out there who don't drink cow's milk (& are all the healthier for it).

From the wikipedia article on milk:

[quote] Throughout the world, more than six billion people consume milk and milk products.

oh fuck off, r114

Wow, Oprah Winfrey and Dr Phil should've stepped on stage and slapped him. I hope he's ready to get sued!

[Quote] Vegans are deeply disturbed individuals. The ones I personally know have one thing in common: they were molested as kids.

[quote]Joaquin's speech is why Trump WILL win in November.

Because the people who would are literal parasites. Absolute parasites. And you're a fucking idiot.

Imagine being so stupid that a vegan *speech* is enough to have you vote for that cancer in fat orange shit form. Oh why bother looking at his despicable policies or the disgusting things he himself has said/done in speeches or in the past or his tweets. No, that certainly wouldn't be the reasons NOT to vote for Trump - because then you'd actually be a decent, moral, normal human being.

Nope. A guy going off about dairy at the Oscars is all it took for certain people to get triggered and show that they are without question the most thin-skinned, stupidest, immoral motherfuckers on this planet.

They both did a fine job.

I don't know or have I ever met either.

Well said, absolutely heart felt and well delivered.

I've spent a day thinking about this. The song from the original Broadway production of "Hair", "Easy to be Hard, " pretty much sums up how I feel. When The Joker won Best Actor, it wasn't just our Joqauin's win. This is a Hollywood budget project, yes? And that means Hollywood budget $. Ergo, hundreds of people worked on this movie. Unless Joaquin would step up to the plate and tell us he set up every shot, lighted it, put film in the camera, & then ran out onto the set to the call of 'action.'

Everybody who had a hand in the project came together to make something that was worthy of winning Best Actor at the Academy Awards. They deserve thanks. Instead, Joaquin queefs out a rant about the dairy industry's cruelty to animals. He put the welfare of cows above the consideration of everybody who busted ass to show him in his best light.

I hope he feels better. And I hope all the cows are having a nicer day. DLers, think on this; was one cow going to be saved from the cruelty they experienced Monday morning as the after parties were in full swing?

And finally, many, many people, myself included view Donald Trump as thwacked, out there, delusional, totally ragged in the upper story, and ultimately, I think most of us quietly worry what the fuck he's going to do next.

I imagine that's just how Trumpies viewed Joaquin's acceptance speech. His speech did no good for an one. And possibly, just possibly, convinced some who were sitting on the fence about which direction to head in November, on the side of Hair Piece Spray On Tan Donald.

Y'all can shade Jane Fonda for all you wish; she kept her acceptance speech at the 1972 Academy Awards to task. And Vietnam was a lot weightier than suffering dairy cows.

Just because one cause is weightier, R146, doesn't mean that another isn't worth attention. People are capable of caring about more than one issue. Besides, he didn't rant about the dairy industry and cows, he mentioned their plight because he was talking about the disconnect we have with the "natural world," about how we feel entitled to take whatever we want from others, animals, and the earth because it suits us, and the tendency of humans to have an egocentric world view.

It's funny to me how so many people are fine with celebrities making political statements at awards show, but the minute animals are brought into the equation he/she should keep their mouth shut.

How many celebrities moan and lecture about climate change moments before they get into their limos and their private jets to return to their mansions?? Are those celebs who fly around in private jets single-handedly destroying the planet, no, but at least Joaquin backs up his speech by being a vegan, and for that he's not a hypocrite and taking up the cause de jour for clicks.

Here's a transcript of his speech. Point out where he's wrong or what he said was offensive to anyone aside from dairy farmers, the majority of whom are Trump voters anyway.

[quote] [We have to] continue to use our voice for the voiceless. I've been thinking a lot about some of the distressing issues that we are facing collectively. I think at times we feel, or were made to feel, that we champion different causes, but for me, I see commonality. I think, whether we're talking about gender inequality or racism or queer rights or indigenous rights or animal rights, we're talking about the fight against injustice. We're talking about the fight against the belief that one nation, one people, one race, one gender or one species has the right to dominate, control and use and exploit another with impunity.

[quote] I think that we've become very disconnected from the natural world, and many of us, what we're guilty of is an egocentric worldview — the belief that we're the center of the universe. We go into the natural world, and we plunder it for its resources. We feel entitled to artificially inseminate a cow, and when she gives birth, we steal her baby, even though her cries of anguish are unmistakable. Then, we take her milk, that's intended for her calf, and we put it in our coffee and our cereal, and I think we fear the idea of personal change because we think that we have to sacrifice something to give something up. But human beings, at our best, are so inventive and creative and ingenious, and I think that when we use love and compassion as our guiding principles, we can create, develop and implement systems of change that are beneficial to all sentient beings and to the environment.

[quote] Now, I have been a scoundrel in my life. I've been selfish. I've been cruel at times, hard to work with and ungrateful, but so many of you in this room have given me a second chance. And I think that's when we're at our best, when we support each other, not when we cancel each other out for past mistakes, but when we help each other to grow, when we educate each other, when we guide each other toward redemption. That is the best of community.

[quote] When he was 17, my brother wrote this lyric. It said, 'Run to the rescue with love, and peace will follow.'"

It was a ridiculous lecture at an awards ceremony. He's a self-entitled fool.

Nothing brings out the judgment more than people who judge vegans.

It's actually the other way around, R149.

This somewhat insane, off-the-rails thread makes it pretty clear that DL has been infested not just by Russian trolls and Fraus, but the meat and dairy lobby as well.

Vegans were molested as kids? That's better than anything Trump's conspiracy freaks ever came up with.

[quote]We feel entitled to ... steal her baby, even though her cries of anguish are unmistakable.

Now do puppies and kittens.

[quote] if a same word-for-word story appeared in The New York Times, you'd give them a Noble Prize.

Oh, dear.

But they'll sure applaud all the actors/actresses cry over Weinstein, Woody Allen, and #metoo after they partied and worked with the fuckers for years, R149. But a ten second mention of cows and the practices of the dairy industry and they're all over Phoenix.

He's not wrong. I know he's an actor, but he also seems to be extremely introverted irl. It took a lot of courage for him to do that. He knew he would be criticized, but if he changed one person's mind, then it was worth it. Underneath all those roles of the damaged people he plays on the screen, he seems like a quiet, gentle soul.

Oh please, R155. There was an article about the making of The Joker that said he deliberately changed the choreography to fight scenes involving the other actors because he was "feeling" it and in the process physically hurt other actors. He's a self-important douche.

He's not wrong. We treat farm animals the same way that we treated slaves in the 1700s (treating as property without feelings, abusing them, forcibly separating them from their offspring and familiar homes). They suffer a hellish life there they have no choice or freedom, just so we can have bacon, milk, and eggs. People don't like to be reminded of the torture they inflict on others. The industry doesn't like for consumers to be reminded. If you want to continue to eat milk and bacon, then you have every right to do so, but don't pretend that no animals are being harmed.

Think back to when the beef farmers of America sued Oprah in the 1990s because, on an episode of her show, she said "I will never eat another hamburger again". Oprah believed the lawsuit was based on racism: a large group of older white men wanted to silence (and take money from) a "liberal elite" black woman. The farmers don't want to be forced to be kind to their livestock because it raises costs. And they are supported by the gun-crazy goons who post selfies of themselves grinning next to animals they killed.

My uncle has a farm in a red area. He temporarily moved three of his cows to a neighbor's farm across the street. Throughout that time period, he noticed that in the daylight, his cows would stand on the edge of the neighbor's property closest to my uncle's farm, at the fence, looking towards his farm. They wanted to come "home". After he realized that, he changed a lot of his ways.

I became a vegetarian shortly after I became an atheist. Once I could no longer tell myself that I was "just helping the animals get to heaven more quickly", I could no longer justify consuming meat and dairy products.

Who cares if he's right or wrong? He looked like an idiot at an awards show yammering on about cream in coffee. He trivialized the issue by choosing an elitist venue to espouse his beliefs and justified all those who say actors should shut just the fuck up.

*who say actors should just shut the fuck up.

[quote]In Texas, I have mainly met vegans that did it because they had such bad eating habits they had to do something drastic. Being vegan meant getting rid of the most tempting foods.

See: Bill Clinton. He went vegan about ten years ago, due to his heart problems (and lost 30 lbs). Well, 99%-vegan. His doctor wants him to eat salmon once a week, so he does, "But I’d just as soon be without it. The vegan diet is what I like the best. I have more energy, I never clog. And I feel good.”

Where is he wrong, you may ask? He is an actor lecturing people on how to live their lives. He can do and fuck and eat whatever kind of shit he wants. But he shouldn't think that he knows whats best for others, regardless of whether it really is or not. Just act, accept your awards, and shut the fuck up, please.

I have to agree with him about the cows and their calves. The cows do howl for about three days if you take their calves away. The farms I know mostly leave the calves with their moms . But I did chuckle when he commented about the cereal. I knew what the reaction would be and that visual was humorous and unexpected. I don't mind when actors or anyone really shits on Trump though. Just don't go on and on. But people in other countries are murdered when they speak out so... Did you see Putin just murdered another Russian critic/ blogger in a French hotel?

It's hard to listen to a well known alcoholic, drug addicted head-case lecture people on healthy and ethical living.

r163 It's even harder to listen to meat eaters lecture people about ethics or justice.... or how much they "love animals."

R158, why shouldn't he speak out about something he strongly believes in? If not him, then who? He has an audiences of millions. No one is going to listen to someone like me who probably has an audience of 5 or 6 people. He's using his celebrity status for something positive. If you don't like the message, then don't listen. You're entitled to that, but don't take away his right to speak out just because you disagree or don't like the messenger.

You don't hear meat eaters lecturing, R164. It's only vegans, and occasionally vegetarians, who love to lecture.

R165, how am I "taking away his right" to speak? I'm saying the forum he chose made him look like a fool because it was so laughably inappropriate. It's absolutely my right to criticize him as much as it's his right to say whatever comes into his head.

And for the record, I agree with R163.

What exactly would meat eaters have to lecture about in the first place, R166? How they contribute to and support animal cruelty?

R167, are you dense? I'm responding to R164 (is that you as well?) accusing meat eaters of lecturing others. You can't accuse them of lecturing and then say they have no right to lecture when they're not the ones lecturing to begin with, you moron.

He looks fat for a vegan. Is he one?

He's a vegan who's also a booze bag. Just the person you want lecturing you.

Freak alert at r13. Are you wearing plastic shoes and a vinyl belt?

R167, the lecturer is at R13.

Movie Star] just walked by him and said, “Mooooo.” Joaquin didn’t seem to think that was funny and just gave him a look.= Adam Driver

I'd love to know where he lives. I'd have 2 bottles of fresh milk delivered to him daily, in sterilized glass bottles, along with a quart of yogurt and 2 pints of cottage cheese. And for Christmas, some leather chaps and a custom saddle for him to ride that ugly horse he lives with.

Now I can see what r13 said after I had previously blocked him, thanks to r172. (Thank you, r172.)

It is fascinating to see he refers to himself "as a judge and a critic of [my ethical compass], as is Joaquin," when I actually started this thread complaining that "vegans are the judgiest people in the world." Thus he voluntarily affirms my point.

This is exactly why no one likes vegans, except other vegans, and also why their movement keeps failing.

Joaquin is not even vegan apparently. A friend of mine posted this on Facebook just the other day:

>On Friday we went to a rally in LA on climate change with the focus on local oil drilling. Jane Fonda spoke and other celebrities were there like Norman Lear, Rosanna Arquette, and Joaquin Phoenix. Then we all marched to Pershing Square for more speeches and Joaquin was right next to us. We were discussing how none of the speakers were talking about animal farming and the importance of being vegan in discussions on climate change. I asked Joaquin if he is vegan and he diverted his eyes and didn’t answer and walked quickly to get away from me. He could have said I’ve been vegan my whole life and I’m very devoted to animal justice, you dumbass, but he didn’t. I feel stupid for not knowing this about him and Nikki Swift has filled me in on his life since. He gave the most compelling acceptance speech of the night by far in my opinion. I wish I could tell him that.

You can mess up your health with a vegan diet. One woman wrote a book about it and she is a die-hard environmentalist. She said she stopped having periods and had severe anemia.

If one is a true vegan, you have to take supplements to obtain certain nutriments that can only be gotten from animal sources. Otherwise, health issues come into play.

"why shouldn't he speak out about something he strongly believes in? If not him, then who? He has an audiences of millions."

The Academy Awards is not the time or the place for grandstanding on ANY issue. And the "audience of millions" watching the Oscars didn't give a rat's ass about what he was babbling about. They probably all thought in unison: "what the FUCK is this weirdo talking about? He must be drunk or something!"

r178 If meat eaters get all they need from their diet, why do they fortify their milk with calcium and vitamin D?

[180] Food is fortified so that you don't have to eat pounds of something to get the recommended levels of various vitamins and minerals. "Meat eaters" realize homo sapiens evolved to be omnivores, not giraffes.

You squeal Joaquin is "just an actor" and should shut up. You declare Regan as the bestest POTUS of all times. And you voted for Dump.

Republicans: Hollywood should shut up!

Also Republicans: Hey, Clint, come and talk to an empty chair at our convention

Also Republicans: Hollywood needs to stay out of politics!

Also Republicans: We voted for Clint, Fred Grandy, Sonny Bono, Arnold S., Reagan, Trump

Also Republicans: Obama wasn't born here, he isn't supposed to be president!

Also Republicans: We need to amend the constitution so Arnold can run for president.

Also Republicans and their enabling shitheads: THIS IS WHY TRUMP

Also Republicans and their enabling shitheads: WE IGNORE EVERY FUCKING REPULSIVE THING TRUMP SAYS/DOES TO PROCLAIM THE STUPIDEST REASONS WHY TRUMP WON.

Bingo,r183!

What does being sick of Joaquin and his anti-dairy tirade have to do with Republicans?

R185, I'll go slow for you:

Some morons in several posts mentioned that "This is why Trump won or will win" right in this thread. It's also a common theme with REPUBLICANS to constantly whine about Hollywood celebs and their politics...unless they lean right, then they vote for them and/or invite them to the Republican conventions.

You actually needed me to explain the glaring hypocrisy of these right-wing assholes, you half-wit or you a Republican in denial when it comes to that glaring hypocrisy when you people bitch about "liberal Hollywood."

or are you*

wrong time, wrong place.

do your political shpiel where and when it will make a difference. not at an event for rich, famous and beautiful people who had the help of thousands (all those behind the scenes people) to make them into what they are.

every time these bozos go on about this crap at these shows, i think they should have just done a George C. Scott and not gone. no matter how intelligent the argument, no matter how important the issue they will, by virtue of standing around in outfits that cost more than most people make in a month, appear like giant hypocrites.

The fact that we're all talking about his speech means he succeeded.

It's pathetic how butthurt so many people get when a public figure spends 15 seconds talking about the consequences of our lifestyles. I see the same thing in comment threads on news articles about animal welfare, meat consumption, or water consumption - a lot of people defensively over-reacting because someone has dared to point out the true cost of their dietary and lifestyle choices. They leap to think of every reason they can to discredit the speaker, without engaging with the substance of what was said. But it's the vegans who are the real villains here apparently.

Alright, so if R176 is right, here's what I'm guessing is up:

Joaquin was told by his studio or his handler or somebody higher up that he had to use the speech for a political cause. After all, Joker became such a cash cow and seat filler because of how "political" and polarizing it was when it first came out. I think the suits saw that and wanted him to make a polarizing and political speech to attract more attention so that people would actually pay attention when Joker 2 is released.

Or he's just another asshole Hollywood hypocrite. Either way.

Why do human weirdos want to jerk off dolphins? Such an odd fetish!

Considering nobody watched the Oscar's (notice they don't throw around that "audience of a billion people worldwide!!" statement anymore), I think the dairy industry is safe.

R189 thinks he succeeded because of a thread on a gay gossip site that talk about his speech? Maybe R189 should loa poll to see if anyone has stopped their milk and egg consumption since his speech. I think she might be very disappointed.

*Maybe [R189] should do a poll

Sure Jan R190.

R166 haha. What are meat eaters going to lecture about?

Do try to keep up, R197. That's been answered.

^ not by me. moooooooo

Triggered Boomers abound. See you at Monty's, fossils.

The only ones triggered here are vegans. As usual. LMFAO, R200.

"The fact that we're all talking about his speech means he succeeded."

He succeeded at nothing but making a fool of himself. His wacko speech isn't going to make people stop drinking milk.

What I don't get is why anybody cares about what he has to say. I know he was in Joker but surely everybody in the entertainment industry/everyone above the age of seventeen knows he's a nutcase, right? Why are people taking him seriously? His words should be treated the same way as Kanye's.

I seriously can't believe the psycho has fans. I can't wait for him to drink himself to death so that he and the annoying Joker brigade will disappear.

Rooney Mara looks cute in r200's photo. Shocker.

I don't know at lot about Joaquin's life, but it appears that he has some mental issues.

Probably why he's so brilliant as Joker/Arthur Fleck in the movie. Hope he has a good therapist.

The only thing people in this thread need to ask themselves is why they don't care about the systematic torture and suffering of BILLIONS of animals. How can you justify the suffering you help inflict when you can be even healthier eating a plant-based diet?

You can be pro-choice, you can be anti-dairy and eating meat, but you can’t be both.

Because meat and dairy are so tasty, R206!

Nutritious and delicious!

Stamp your tiny foot in impotent fury, r206!

I can't wait to get up tomorrow and have my scrambled eggs and toast with a nice pat of Irish butter on it.

He is right about the treatment of cows. That is animal cruelty on a large scale.

Yum.

R207, of course you can be both, dumbass. Forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child to term is harmful and exploitative - not unlike how cows are forcibly impregnated, forced to give birth, have their children taken away from them and have their milk taken from them perpetually through their life, until they reach 25% of their natural lifespan and are slaughtered.

R9 that’s what DL fave Steve Sandvoss did. He left Hollywood to open a smallholding dairy with his brother, and does very well. He takes wonderful care of his goats to make an ethical range of dairy products. He seems blissfully happy and so do his customers. Plus he’s still really hot.

There is a model for small-scale sustainable farming on a local level, with a mission of stewardship. It can be done and should be done, everywhere. Why isn’t this a viable solution in Joaquin’s eyes, I wonder?

I don't have a problem with veganism in general and wish it was a viable solution for everyone. My problem is the way the elite classes don't take things into consideration, like poverty, when they lecture others.

They also provide very vague solutions that aren't going to work well because many seem know nothing about horticulture/ farming. For example, I often hear that current feed fields can be converted to feed more people. That's not how it works. Crops can not just be replaced with other crops. Soil becomes depleted without specific organic wastes added.

Being vegan requires money for a balanced healthy diet, or yes, you can get very sick. There's also DNA testing that can pinpoint individual diets depending on that person specifically, going by their genes. There's 4 different diet types and an individual can be any of the 4. For the person that asked why vitamins need to be added to dairy -- that has nothing to do with dairy being necessarily lacking, but to make up for other missing lifestyle issues, like lack of sunshine.

If the vegan movement was more understanding of individual hardships and acknowledged that no, it really doesn't work for everyone, they'd be better off with getting their message through. Instead of wanting to eliminate foods, start with pushing better treatment for farm animals. Advocate for the poor to get nutrition through affordable means. Promote eating less meat.

With cows, no they don't have to be constantly pregnant as long as they are milked continuously. That's why women can make breast milk for 5 years or more, as long as the body is told to. The reason they keep impregnating them is because they either fucked it up by not staying on top of it, or they want to excuses to make veal -- so vegans should be promoting regulations to prevent ripping calfs away, when there's no need. Advocates can make sure farmers aren't abusing them, and so on.

It's frustrating to be lectured by the elite when 70% of environmental problems have nothing to do with individuals, the way corporations and the lifestyles of the wealthiest do. Doesn't mean not trying at all, but stop pretending the people barely getting by are the bigger problem.

I live around the corner from a herd of 20 cows, which the owner raises to butcher and sell the meat. They're friendly and inquisitive, coming up to the fence as people walk by, and the calves in the spring are adorable. I can't imagine raising a living creature only to send it to its death, but I guess these animals live much better lives than their factory-farm counterparts.

r217 i wish people would educate themselves before attacking veganism. Eating a plant-based diet is WAYYY cheaper than a meat-based diet. Just make most of your food - don't rely on pre-made and processed items.

The Phoenix Family? Not all good.

So ridiculous. I'm surprised the Oscar audience didn't erupt into raucous and derisive laughter. I know the 10 of us assembled in my living room eating dairy products sure did.

The hypocrisy of Hollywood will never not be funny, and lucky for us Joaquin embodies it. Nothing like the alcoholic, ex-druggie, Rooney Mara marrying personification of Cluster C personality disorders lecturing us lowly commoners on healthy and ethical living.

This is why I don't watch the Oscars anymore. Remember the good old days when they've just thanked their family and friends, director, cast, etc. Now these rich arrogant actors tell us how to live our life.

R223 That's exactly why I still watch the Oscars. It's funny to watch actors like Leonardo DiCaprio get on stage and lecture us about climate change and then fly their 12 year old girlfriends to Cabo on gas-guzzling private jets the next day. It's like an MADTV sketch.

I think a lot of people either forgot or don't know that Joaquin was with River when he died. Joaquin's voice can be heard on the 911 call pleading with the operator to send an ambulance and saying "my brother is dying." Losing a sibling to tragedy is scarring enough. Having to stand there and watch him bang his head on the concrete until he flatlines because the ambulance didn't get there on time is another level of trauma. I just got finished watching a video of him and his sister Rain (who was also with River the night he died) talking about an album she made about River. I couldn't figure out what the fuck they were talking about because neither of them could properly articulate a thought when they discussed their dead brother. That's how traumatized I think they were and still are.

Also, River was the one to suggest the family go vegan. Up to that point, they were just vegetarians.

[quote] watching a video of him and his sister Rain (who was also with River the night he died) talking about an album she made about River. I couldn't figure out what the fuck they were talking about because neither of them could properly articulate a thought.

This video, R225?

I’ve seen some of it (wasn’t going to sit through over an hour..) and it’s a tough hang. All the Phoenixes seem drippy and mush-mouthed as well as insular and evasive, but it’s ten times worse to listen to between Rain & Joaquin (probably because they’re ex-lovers as well as siblings). I’m sure they’re well-intentioned, but that doesn’t make for a guru or a movie-star. Some people really do better to stick to non-profit charity or private-sector work, and not to speak or perform publicly.

It is awful about River, though. I hope they don’t still blame themselves.

Its nice that Joaquin felt able to mention River in his speech.

Regarding dairy - sure, it’s best to limit it for the sake of limiting climate change.

Phoenix can do whatever, though it’s funny that he decided to bring this up at a very superficial thespian ceremony, lol. He already has a Twitter platform that the whole world can see, doesn’t he? He could just post such PETA info on Twitter or other SM to his followers & fans - it’s not necessary anymore to cram it in during a ceremony & after-party.

[quote] Imagine the idea of taking away a newborn human baby from its mother just after birth while the mother screams and wails in anguish.

[quote] I don't think cows having babies once a year is cruel or punishing. What's awful is taking their babies from them right after they're born. That's really terrible.

But people would separate the cow and the calf eventually anyway. People also take away little pups and little kittens from their parent. They’re taken away at ca. 8 weeks old (or sometimes even earlier) - because most people wants only ‘cute little-wittle toys’. Even though feral & wild kittens and dingo pups usually stay with their parent for far longer, even after they're weaned. Taking baby animals away from their parent so soon - just to have a plaything - is just as “unnatural” as drinking another animal’s milk. But somehow I doubt celebs like Phoenix understand that buying baby animals is “unnatural” too. Oh well.

Inverted empathy: other people's suffering becomes about you. You get to feel you're owed a measure of the deference and compassion that the victims are.

R228 The ecological benefit to giving up dairy doesn't matter anymore. Even if cows completely disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow and we stopped eating meat and drinking dairy, climate change would continue to fuck up the planet at the same pace it was before. There's nothing we can do anymore to stop climate change. Accept your fate.

Of course climate change will continue. Just as it has occurred God knows how many times in the history of the planet. Ice age, tropical hothouse, the earth has seen it a bazillion times before. To think that narcissistic humans cause it or can affect change is hubris of the first order. Gaia will still be spinning on her axis when the human species has been consigned to the dustbin of oblivion and is not even a memory.

Ah, I see the climate change deniers and the despair (don't bother to do anything, we're all doomed) trolls have arrived.

Humans have obviously been speeding up climate change with emissions and such, but I agree with you, R231. To think that we can stop the sands in the hourglass from falling and skirt the natural order of things is human hubris at its finest. You can't cheat death and you can't run away from Mother Nature.

We've had milk in our coffee and tea forever. I don't think people who take cream in their coffee are the reason we have climate change.

It's milk and cream in EVERYTHING! We didn't use to make desserts and bread with milk but we now add milk and eggs to every frickin' thing.

Look bitches, DL icon Lena Dunham is now going vegan thanks to Joaquin:

“welp, it finally happened- I do believe Joaquin Phoenix made me vegan.”

r236, its worth a shot. lesn is 250 pounds these days, huge.

I think it's perfectly appropriate he won over DL relic Lens.

I have no interest in vegans. I don't care what they eat or don't eat. Have at it, kids, just do me the same courtesy in return. I am an educated adult, do not lecture me.

Lens is desperately in need of attention. She's pining away. Veganism, and of course endlessly ranting at everyone else about veganism, will be the new raison d'etre for Our Lens.

R235 thinks we just add milk and eggs to things willy-nilly--what things, exactly, do we add eggs to that don't call for eggs?

"We didn't use to make desserts and bread with milk"

We didn't?

r241 and r242 Do you guys cook? Have you made bread before? All traditional bread are just flour, salt, yeast, and water. It's newer types of breads that call for milk and eggs. Most desserts can also be made without eggs. People 100 years ago didn't have the same abundance of eggs and milk as we do now so recipes reflected that.

All those newer types of bread they make now, uh-huh. And it depends on what kind of dessert, but eggs are a rather common ingredient in most of the desserts I can think of.

Lens just posted her first vegan meal.

Ugh, of course Lena has to adopt someone else's cause and make it all about her. She can't stand sharing the attention for more than a millisecond.