Is the Upper East Side Over?

yes, dear, definitely not the place for you.....please look elsewhere, i hear there are some lovely new places over by the tracks on the hudson

The “real” UES (59-96, 5th to lex) will never change. That money there is generations old.

[quote] No (You Type Like New Money)

No, you type poor

Honey, New York is over.

I prefer the Upper West Side.

yes mrs maisel we know

Caroline Kennedy still lives there. Doesn't she live on Park Avenue?

The bigger question: is “Society” over?

Is America over?

Is the planet over?

questions keep getting bigger

R8 Absolutely darling.

R7 Homely Irish Catholic who spawned with a Jewish man.

Honestly, who under 50 gives a shit about "Society" anymore (i.e., belonging to the right country clubs, being on the boards of the right institutions - like the Metropolitan Opera)? The old money that was represented by "Society" is pocket change to today's internet billionaires. Does anyone (besides pathetic aging queens like Anderson Cooper) even care anymore that your last name is Whitney or Hearst or Vanderbilt? Who these days wants to live on Park Avenue in an apartment full of antiques, family heirlooms and portraits of ancestors?

When I lived in NYC I lived on the UES and absolutely loved it. I rarely left the neighborhood except for work. I had lots of friends downtown but I wasn't interested in hanging out down there.

"Beekman Place, always so loyal."

R12 Exactly. Nobody except old people care about “high society”. Young people are impressed with money regardless of whether it’s “old” or “new” or what the person’s background is.

R12 -- ancient DLers, but you are correct-- no one I know care about that crap.

And the people buying on "Billionaire's Row" are very different that the people buying on UES or UWS-- they are looking for a pied a terre in NYC for their occasional trips here versus people who are looking for an apartment to raise a family in.

Proximity to the park and to good schools, public and private, will always make UES desirable to the latter.

The Upper East Side matters to people that matter.

Billinaires row is 2 blocks to the Park but I don't know about schools. Billionaires row real estate is money laundering and wealth management investments. There aren't all that many apartments. The UES is huge.

[quote]The Upper East Side matters to people that THINK they matter.

Fixed that for you.

[quote] The Upper East Side matters to people WHO think they matter.

Venture capital/hedge fund/start-up/Silicon Alley money (ie, "real money" in NYC these days) families, particularly among couples those with small children, want to be in/around Tribeca or at least downtown. Even Brooklyn is desirable (in part).

The UES is where one's (wealthy) grandparents live.

I thought you had to buy in Brooklyn.

What I like about York Avenue is that the sidewalks are so easy to navigate. I don’t care there aren’t any art galleries, theaters, tattoo parlors, bubble tea joints, and so on. I just don’t want the stress of navigating narrow crowded sidewalks like 9th avenue in Hell’s kitchen or Christopher Street in the W Village. I like the energy of those places, but as a visitor. I like going home to my relatively quiet residential neighborhood.

UES is passé. But the prime Silk Stocking District - 5th to Park/Lex -60 to 96 - will always be nice because of the fabulous architecture. As long as there is lots of money around. But the coop thing is a big turnoff to most nowadays - it was only meaningful when “society” was meaningful.

With that said, if I had to move in NYC, I would seriously consider the far UES east of Second Ave now. The bargains there are some of the best in NYC. Cheaper than a lot of Brooklyn - which is crazy. With the Q train, the far UES is now easily accessible to downtown. And you are still on the island and don’t have to deal with being isolated over a bridge. There is an abundance of support services - delis, restaurants, drugstores, specialty stores - which you don’t have in most Brooklyn neighborhoods.

Hello!

I am the Upper East Side.

No, I am the UES.

I read last year that Kylie Jenner was looking at a $34 million dollar apartment near the upper east side.

Even she could crush the "Old Money Society" set.

But they probably wouldn't let her in if she wanted to live in one of the Maine buildings.

What about me?

Colonel Fluffernutter and I have no interest in tattoo parlors, dear.

Do you have family in the area?

I remember when I was 23 years old and visiting from Ohio, I walked around the UES and thought it was peaceful and beautiful.

Nothing has been the same since Oatsie Charles passed away.

When was in NYC, I lived on 75th and Amsterdam. Just loved it. My best friend lived on 1st and 88th. I could not stand it over there. We spent most of our time at my place. Maybe, a much older man now, I might appreciate better.

I started reading the sad story of how everything grand has passed away for poor dear Oatsie, and I just sobbed and sobbed!

Oatsie lived in Manhattan? News to me!

Just dial BUtterfield 8!

Do I care if it’s trendy or “over”? No. The park is my backyard, and I can’t go anywhere without seeing people I know and having a chat. I know all my neighbors, shopkeepers, etc. It’s like a small town. Very happy here. This is my home.

r36 could't you get that in many neighborhoods in NYC?

Beekman Place is not UES. It's between 49th and 51st streets and is Midtown East, or Turtle Bay

R12 is correct. The world does not give a fuck anymore about the old money, keep everyone out crowd. In fact those old fools are the ones people want to leave the area because their old drippy personalities are uninteresting and don’t “get” the world nowadays.

I lived on the UES side for years and I adored it. It was lovely, everything you needed was within walking distance, you had Central Park and also Carl Schurz Park, and it was as quiet as you could get in NYC.

R12 is right and most of the children of these families are decamping and getting great spaces downtown, Nomad, parts of Brooklyn, or townhouses. Or if they are staying on the UES then the new condos like that gorgeous one on 79th between Lex and 3rd.

The young just married ones who are sticking to the UES blue chip co-ops are typically the pathetic ones — usually the ones who at this point have more of a pedigree than money — who are still clinging clinging clinging to what their family once was and will drop a story any time they can to remind you that their family is Colony Club/social register — like anyone gives a fuck. Because that’s literally all they’ve got. And they’re usually big time drunks.

So yes, it is over, except for a certain pathetic group who continue to keep their head buried in the sand.

Well r41, it couldn't have happened to a worse set of NY's. These people barred jews, blacks, and other people of color from their fancy condos and neighborhoods. I'm happy to see the day the facade come tumbling down.

R42 I couldn’t agree more! And it’s so funny — I get a huge kick out of it now — to go thru all their FB posts now (first of all, that they still use FB as their main social media — no comment there) and see how totally oblivious they are to their own irrelevancy. They’re so used to everyone wanting to be them and now no one wants to be them. And I love it.

[quote]. Even Brooklyn is desirable (in part). The UES is where one's (wealthy) grandparents live.

I don't know, R21. Plenty of townhouses on the Upper East Side go for $20 million or more. I doubt you can find that in Brooklyn.

I do agree that many very wealthy people who don't like the staid, conservative vibe of the UES look for condos or townhouses in the West Village, Tribeca, etc.

Never Lexington avenue above 82nd, possibly 83rd. By 84th one is firmly in Yorkville territory society wise and certainly from 86th north to 96th.

Side streets west of Lexington towards Park and beyond to Fifth is another matter. There things are quite decent from 79th to 85th. At 86th however things are dreadful until closer to Park avenue.

R41

Just so you know those "blue chip" co-op buildings on UES have held and retain their value far better than most new constriction condos downtown and elsewhere.

Those who serve on such co-op boards are not arrivistes with (some) new money; but well seasoned themselves or from family in such matters. Because our very best UES co-ops (along with Sutton Place) carefully vet prospective buyers, and thanks to strict financial requirements you don't have issues caused by economic upheavals causing limited financial situations.

r46 nobody cares about that shit anymore. "Arriviste!" LOL! Not in the 21st Century. That's an archaic term. The aspirations to join the "old money" set are as ancient as AOL dialup.

The West Village is another part of town with very expensive real estate. Sorry, but I find the Federal red brick townhouses and brownstones in this neighbourhood dull. I like the ornate townhouses of the UES, like 9 East 84th Street.

Harvey Weinstein's former townhouse at 13 Bank Street in the West Village, which sold for $25.6 million. Dull.

it's OVAH

Real estate prices are awfully high for a neighborhood that's over.

R31 What was so fucked up about "WASP society" in one sentence.

[Quote] (Oatsie's father) was a Confederate commander in the Civil War, who served seven terms in Congress before becoming governor of Alabama.

Good riddance to the Wasps. Closet cases, the bunch of them.

I’m on the UES in the 70s close to York (ie Yorkville - the trashy part of the neighborhood).

It’s relatively affordable for a 1BR and I assume rents will decline even more. Was already cheaper than my friends on the UWS and in Brooklyn.

The Q was a game changer (pre-pandemic). Took me 20 minutes to get downtown to work.

It’s safe and boring but I like it. Nice being able to walk east to the Park.

All that being said - NYC seems to be getting increasingly dangerous and depressing.

R54 - dangerous and depressing how?

And separately, do the co-op boards know it's over? If nobody meets their standards and money is going to easier pastures, is the competition for the co-ops the same as ten or twenty years ago?

It isn't totally "over" for co-ops in Manhattan, especially pre-war buildings on UES, Sutton Place, Greenwich Village, etc.

Units are still selling on Fifth, Park and Madison Avenue, or at least were before covid-19 shut things down. Yes, prices may be discounted in certain situations, but that does not mean sky is falling.

It really comes down to what a person or family is looking for in terms of real estate.

R55

Another UES resident, and can say IMHO see same thing; city is dirty, depressing and at least seems more threatening if not increase in crime.

There are homeless everywhere on UES even rich heartland between Lexington and Fifth. Sprawled out on sidewalks, in shop doorways, camped out at those free internet kiosks, in front of or near supermarkets or food stores.

Whole outdoor dining thing means navigating already crowded and narrow sidewalks has become even more of an ordeal.

Overall city is busier now than say in April, but for UES from Lexington going west to Fifth most of the homes and apartment buildings are largely empty. This contributes to a sort of deserted feeling; if it weren't for building staff like doormen things would be totally abandoned.

Yes R57 - that’s what I mean about dangerous and depressing.

Also de blasio is moving large groups of homeless men into pretty expensive hotels on the upper west side and ruining the neighborhood. Like he’s turned the Lucerne on 79th and Amsterdam into a shelter now for 280 homeless men with substance abuse issues. Has done the same thing at Hotel Belleclaire on 77th and Broadway. My friend lives a few blocks away and said she’s noticed men shooting up on the sidewalk and seen an increase in discarded syringes.

Not good.

At least yorkville doesn’t have hotels for de blasio to pull this shit with.

Article about the Lucerne.

Any place that spawned the trashy ass Trump clan really doesn't have any business defining what elegance and refinement may or may not be.

It isn't just the UWS, but entire West Side really from downtown right on up through Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen and onto UWS. Any place there are cheap budget, SRO or tourist hotels with rooms to spare; and there are plenty.

Thank God UES does not have many hotels and certainly they aren't cheap tourist or flea bag places. The Mark and others know what's good for their reputation and getting on with neighbors.

R60

You don't have a clue do you? Not a single one...

Donald Trump came from a working or barely middle class background out of Queens, NYC. About far removed from UES as Staten Island.

For the record DT and his many wives were never considered part of UES set. Yes, they attended various benefits or parties , but DT was famously niggardly with donations. Late Brooke Astor simply gave up trying to get DT to donate anything to charities including her own causes. If you knew anything about UES you'd know philanthropy and charities carry great weight socially.

DT was and still is seen what what he is; a first rate bore who happened to make some money. His constant self aggrandizement , philandering, and suspect business dealings are other reasons people are suspect.

Blaine Trump, and her ex-husband Robert Trump however have been very well received by society. But they both singly and severely were willing to roll up their sleeves and not just make charitable donations, but get involved with good works. Blaine Trump is quite involved with Gods Love We Deliver for instance.

[quote]There are homeless everywhere on UES even rich heartland between Lexington and Fifth. Sprawled out on sidewalks, in shop doorways, camped out at those free internet kiosks, in front of or near supermarkets or food stores.

You never used to see that on the UES.

There are homeless who set up their overnight camp in doorway of La Maison du Chocolate (1020 Madison) or next door every night for months now. Ironically this is just several feet away from Mike Bloomberg's foundation property at 25 East 78th street.

In any event this is hardly an isolated incident. Shop doorways along Madison from 60's going north at night are full of homeless camped out for night. Obviously they cannot do this with residential buildings because staff would shoo them away.

You often can find homeless sprawled out for the night along East 71st from Madison to Park. Church on corner of Madison runs a soup kitchen IIRC which brings people to that block, and like other houses of worship the property (as in front steps) are deemed a safe haven for homeless because church allows them to set up camp overnight.

[quote]His constant self aggrandizement , philandering, and suspect business dealings are other reasons people are suspect.

Yes, the UES set are much more discreet when they philander.

r17 FIFY The UES matters to whom it matters.

[quote]The UES matters to whom it matters.

And nobody could give a fuck about these people anymore. Welcome to the Digital Age/21st Century.

[quote] .... but DT was famously niggardly with donations.

Interesting choice of word, R62. It sounds very similar to that other word. I guess you couldn't have written "stingy" or "miserly" or "cheap". Is this your covert way of saying you don't want Oprah in high society?

Oh dear r62... bad word choice indeed.

I'm sure R62 doesn't have a racist bone in his body. It's just that I can't remember the last time I've heard anyone say that word or I've seen it written in an article. I'm sure people deliberately avoid it because it's so similar to that other n-word.

No bitches...UES ain't over!------

Mystery buyer snags $102 million penthouse in record-setting NYC tower

Yes, the homeless can be seen every few blocks. There are bums outside of supermarkets, CVS, Walgreens etc asking you for money as you enter/exit the stores.

They are all over...not just UES.

I moved to NYC in 2003. Did anyone live there in the 70s/80s who remember when crime and homelessness spiked?

What was it like?

If I remember correctly the UES voted for John Kasich.

And yes even the “real” UES has started to get a sketch feel in the COVID era.

I would say that 220 Central Park South is still Midtown, R71, not Upper East Side.

The Evening Punctuationist lives on the upper east side.

There is nothing racist about having a good vocabulary, R68.

I think the fact that your mind turns so quickly to racist associations for quite innocent words says a lot about your fevered imagination. The lady doth protest too much.

220 Central Park South is on the WEST SIDE, it is in no way associated with the UES, and is adjacent to the garish and awful Billionaire's Row conglomeration. Nobody good is buying these outrageous condos, and the real estate taxes on these apartments is truly outrageous. How can they be anything but money launderers and international nogoodniks!

[quote]Just dial BUtterfield 8!

the BUtterfield exchange is in Murray Hill/Lower Park Ave, south of Grand Central Terminal. Please, People!

The main 5th and Park Ave UES neighborhoods are mainly cooperatives, which are much less expensive to maintain in terms of the property taxes paid. Condos are outrageously expensive to maintain, plus, who knows who will be moving in! Many of the UES coops are all Jewish these days, at least the ones I know of and been in. They are the ones keeping people out, but I trust a lot of that is over now. People just like solvency and quiet!

[quote]Condos are outrageously expensive to maintain, plus, who knows who will be moving in!

The kind of people Mother never, ever would have spoken to, much less associated with! Mother was on the Social Register, you know. She was one of the good people.

R79 those days are so over. The only people who like to think the UES still actually means something are people like Ramona Singer.

[quote]There is nothing racist about having a good vocabulary, [R68]. I think the fact that your mind turns so quickly to racist associations for quite innocent words says a lot about your fevered imagination. The lady doth protest too much.

Please explain to me why the words "stingy", "miserly" or "cheap" wouldn't work just as well. How many TV news anchors, magazine columnists, writers, etc. have you heard (or seen) use that word recently? Quite often the simpler word is the better choice. If I said "Salutations" instead of "Hello", people would think I was a pompous fool.

I'll bet you'd think twice before saying the word "niggardly" to your boss, doctor, etc. even though it's a perfectly legitimate word. You certainly wouldn't say it to a 6'3" young African American man.

Yes, "stingy", "miserly" or "cheap" all work fine, but so does niggardly. It is a real word with no racist overtones, other than in your mind.

We're not talking about the Confederate flag here.

I disagree. "Niggardly" doesn't work fine. The word sticks out like a sore thumb in that paragraph. When is the last time you or anyone you know used it, outside of this thread?

Central Park South is midtown, midtown west, but never the less still midtown.

Anything above 59th to 96th is UES or UWS resectively, then from there you go into "upper Manhattan".

R83

"Cost cutting and penny pinching impacts the residents who have paid dearly (often their homes) for unexpectedly niggardly treatment. The care staff are the other victims – minimally paid, casually employed and stretched to the limit, their willingness to go the extra yard for ‘‘their’’ residents gifts many hours of unpaid overtime. They have no voice and are dependent enough to rarely call out poor management behaviour."

More:

"But I didn’t see the smallness in how you were so niggardly in supporting the arts — how they were always the ‘frills’ that got cut first when schools were strapped and how the military always got more than it could ever realistically need."

Well, these are obviously all obscure, racist, ultra-conservative publications.

Aside from his vocabulary, the mental gymnastics that R62 goes through to disassociate Trump from NYC is laughable.

Trump's whole "brand" is based on his being a born and bred NYC guy, with the requisite street smarts and chutzpah. And for many, many years, his relationship with NYC has been a mutually symbiotic one.

I don't care what or how many whispered asides Upper East Side socialites made about Trump and his shenanigans in their lofty pantheons of taste and elegance, they have never spoken out publicly against Trump, not in the past and not now.

And let's not forget another NYC born and bred guy, AND a former NYC mayor, has been at Trump's side this entire time, gleefully leading the Trump crime family from one triumph over democracy to another.

And Bernie Sanders?

The Upper East Side has historically been quiet and reserved. That seems to rub some people the wrong way. Central Park, the Metropolitan Museum and all the best private schools are there, so the neighborhood isn’t going away anytime soon. The point of having different neighborhoods is that people can find the one that suits them best. For lots of rich people that still means the UES.

Trump may be associated with New York but not the Upper East Side, R88. He lives in Trump Tower, of course, which is in Midtown. He is too brash and loud and self-aggrandizing. His penthouse looks gaudy, like a casino. He doesn't have sophisticated taste. He is not a discreet person.

As mentioned on other DL threads, the UES is changing. Rupert Murdoch has an apartment in 834 Fifth Avenue, one of the most prestigious co-op buildings on the UES. Usually people who lived in such buildings were socially prominent. I doubt Murdoch is. He's just enormously wealthy.

R85 and R86, I know you can find the word "niggardly" in a publication when you do a google search. Who knows what enormous number of documents that search engine looks through. I mean how many times have you come across that word in reading material you have chosen over the past year. Probably none.

[quoteJust dial BUtterfield 8!

[quote]the BUtterfield exchange is in Murray Hill/Lower Park Ave, south of Grand Central Terminal. Please, People!

No, it wasn't, why talk about things you know NOTHING ABOUT.

R91, if they are letting that trash move in then I would agree that it’s over.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R91, why on earth would they let him in that building?

Who would want that criminal on premises? No doubt he will be hacking everyone’s voicemail and going through their trash. Are they stupid?

That’s probably how he got in the building in the first place. He probably hacked all the members of the board and blackmailed his way in. That is how he made his fortune. Digging through prominent people’s trash.

So yeah, there goes the neighborhood.

Yes OP, the UES is OVER. You can get a 2 bedroom 2 bath in a luxury full service building for a song now. But you wouldn’t want it....because it’s OVER and nobody wants to be associated with it anymore. I would rather die that have a coop or rental in the boondocks of Park or Madison Ave.

it’s full of deplorables now, toting their AR15s, wearing their shorts, MAGA hats & their FUCK YOUR FEELINGS tent shirts.

R98, the real luxury buildings are places like 820 Fifth Avenue where each apartment takes up a whole floor and is 7,000 square feet.

[quote] [R60] You don't have a clue do you? Not a single one..Donald Trump came from a working or barely middle class background out of Queens, NYC.

Actually R62, it may be you who does not have a clue.

Trump grew up in Jamaica Estates, an upper middle class neighborhood in Queens with a sizeable Jewish population.

His father was a millionaire real estate developer and as one of the younger children, Donald was always wealthy, went to private schools, etc.

(Both of those facts are fairly well known too.)

Who knows what NYC will be like when this is all over?

As for the UES, it helpful to put it in a Datalounger perspective:

Is it the only place wealthy families in NYC would want to live, as it was in the 1960s and 70s, the time period many DLers still use for reference? Not at all.

Are there a lot of seniors living there? Definitely. My father refers to my grandmother's Park Ave building as "The Norc" (Naturally Occurring Retirement Community, it's actually a thing.)

Are there plenty of reasons why a young family would want to live there? Yes--close to Central Park, good transportation and shopping, many of the top private and public schools are in walking distance. the pre-war apartments are huge, minimal crime.

Again, who knows what NYC will be like once this is all over, but in past real estate crises, stable areas like the UES do much better than newly gentrified areas. Though this may not be anything like previous crises.

And guess what? People like having doormen and a well-staffed building. Not a “concierge” who sits behind a desk and doesn’t get up to open the door. The level of service in an UES co-op far exceeds other building types. Years of tradition have come up with a system that makes these buildings run very smoothly and makes like easier for the owners. Nice apartments, service entrances, service elevators... developers today rarely build dedicated service elevators.

[quote]No, it wasn't, why talk about things you know NOTHING ABOUT.

I DID fuck that up, I'm sorry, I don't know how I got confused. I think I OD'd on a Follies theater thread. The rest of my rant was RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

I forgot that the BUtterfield-8 exchange was the number of Liz's character's answering service not her phone number, or that of her lover at the beginning of the film. He lived on the UES, she lived in the West Village. She says Horatio Street, but her stoop is actually on Gay Street.

R102

Yes, and no.

One reason so much money has moved into those buildings in Tribeca, SoHo and elsewhere downtown is exactly because they don't have doormen, concierges and other such staff. These people want privacy, something anyone who has lived in a full service building (and or in a home with servants) knows is often elusive.

Doormen and lobby attendants see and thus know everything about comings and goings for every resident. A good number do keep their mouths shut, others are infected with same problems nearly universal to servants/service staff; gossip.

As discussed in another DL thread, tons of famous people including actors and celebrities live in these buildings without doormen/lobby staff, and all mange quite well.

New condo towers along Billionaire's Row or elsewhere on UWS or UES have same lobby staff as old pre-war buildings ( three daytime in lobby, separate manned service entrance, etc...), but with a twist. Front doors at 220 CPW open and close automatically, all doorman has to do is move his hands or press a button.

r95 the Penn Station/Port Authority area has always had those issues. It's nothing new.

True R105. True

[quote]I forgot that the BUtterfield-8 exchange was the number of Liz's character's answering service not her phone number, or that of her lover at the beginning of the film. He lived on the UES, she lived in the West Village. She says Horatio Street, but her stoop is actually on Gay Street.

BU 8 was quite high up on the Upper East Side as I remember it - above 80th Street, between Fifth & Lexington.

But I don't think the boundaries were too strict. We also had lettered exchanges in London and here they were very strict. If you moved to the opposite side of the street you might have to change your number (see image at link). In fact it's still the same with landlines here.

BU8 ='s 288, a telephone exchange that covers a good part of UES including Yorkville and Carnegie Hill.

If you would but Google (or any search engine) 1-212-288 you'll have returned pages of telephone numbers on East Side starting from low 60's well past 86th street.

RHinelander 4 ='s 744, again if you but Google 1-212-744 you get tons of telephone numbers for UES, but this time more the rich heartland of Lenox Hill, Park Avenue, but also addresses east of Lexington to East End or York avenues.

While technically on UES, area of Yorkville or anything east of Lexington avenue in 60's, 70's and part of 80's once was considered "secretaries row" because by 1950's and 1960's large numbers of female office workers resided in area (along with nurses from the many local UES hospitals). This area also was rich with the other sort of women. It was an area where men from the rich heartland of Silk Stocking District stashed their mistresses, and or where independent contractors of various levels lived.

BUtterfield 8 wasn't chosen at random for name of that book, whether you took them as a wife or mistress women from either side of fence in Silk Stocking District didn't come cheaply.

[quote]If you would but Google (or any search engine) 1-212-288 you'll have returned pages of telephone numbers on East Side starting from low 60's well past 86th street.

Never EVER in the low 60s. Maybe now, but not when it was still BU 8.

By the way; first exchanges didn't have the third number; one simply asked for PLA za- 4226. This was when virtually all telephone calls local, long distance and overseas were handled by operators. In preperation of rolling out local and national direct dialing last letter became a number hence BUtterfield -8

Guess that would be how one defines "low" 60's.

Restaurant Daniel, at 60 East 65th Street had 1 212 288 0033 .

Oddly the Moxie Hotel in East Village (East 11th street) also has BU-8 exchange ( 1 212-288-6699)

WHY THE FUCK are you arguing over telephone exchanges from decades ago when this thread is about the UES in the year 2020?

Nobody with any money is moving into a building without a state-of-the-art fitness center these days.

[quote]WHY THE FUCK are you arguing over telephone exchanges from decades ago

People are fascinated by them.

1965 >

R113

Going forward those fitness centers may not be the amenity of choice in post covid-19 world. With people leery of too much close personal contact with strangers (even if the are your neighbors), and social distancing rules other things may be on top of people's lists.

Besides gyms/fittness centers in both private buildings and open to public have been shut by state, and govenor has given no indication when (or if) they will reopen. Meanwhile residents of buildings are stuck paying monthly charges for fitness spaces they are forbidden to use, something that isn't sitting well with many.

As for premise of OP topic, not everyone sees days of NYC co-op, UES or elsewhere as over totally.

Boards in cooperative multi-family housing have powers condos can only dream about.

R115 most buildings have suspended gym charges so long as their closed. Ours has.

I’m sure worst case scenario gyms in buildings will just go to a sign up /by apptmt model. I’d sure take that right now!

R116

Most is not all, and clearly some buildings have not received that memo. Will give you that things may vary by type of building with co-ops or condos more receptive to waiving fees than say rentals. The latter (especially new construction) often built in fees from amenities into good part of monthly earnings for building. Considering how much debt these places likely have they probably cannot afford to lose any revenue stream. This would be piled onto tenants moving out and or depressed rental market.

New York is over.

O

V

E

R

over

LOL

No one cares about exercise rooms.

People have their own gyms--nothing in NYC is that far away.

It's a nice-to-have amenity that few people actually use.

And it's not like UES buildings haven't been retrofitted with their own gyms.

NYC might be over but tbh so is the rest of the country. It’s all about what will bounce back. NYC always bounces back. Might take a lot longer this time, but I have faith.

I fled NYC (and the UES) to stay with family further south and it’s depressing here too. You have more space and a yard and some fresh air, which I genuinely appreciate after being trapped in a tiny apartment for 3+ months, but the whole country is f*cked.

This has all just made me realize I want a partner. Location feels less important than the people you are with. Being single is rough no matter what the location is.

"People have their own gyms--nothing in NYC is that far away."

What part of all gyms both public and private are closed are you having problems understanding?

Gyms, fitness areas or centers, exercise rooms, etc.. all of them are shut for duration. Doesn't matter where they are located in NYC or who makes up client base.

You want to exercise in your own home or apartment? That is fine, knock yourself out.

Sigh

We were discussing the situation AFTER the pandemic R121

Given the context, that should have been clear but you were fixated on making your point.

[quote]WHY THE FUCK are you arguing over telephone exchanges from decades ago when this thread is about the UES in the year 2020?

You must be new around here.

One of the most engaging threads in the last five years started with a highly-charged discussion of Mamie Eisenhower's bangs! It was so popular it spilled over onto a SECOND THREAD!

Oh dear, r104

“As discussed in another DL thread, tons of famous people including actors and celebrities live in these buildings without doormen/lobby staff, and all mange quite well”

We are talking about the UES. Where people who don’t want to be near “famous people, actors, and celebrities” live. If you want flashy types go downtown.

This may come as a shock to you dearie but more than a few UES families feel same way. They have moved downtown from Park, Fifth and Madison to live in those anonymous buildings in West Village, Greenwich Village, SoHo and Tribeca. I know a few of them and one reason given was for privacy because "doormen are nosy"....

So there...

The point is the neighborhood will survive since it is the most financially stable in the city. Just like the 8th and the 16th in Paris, or Chelsea and Kensington in London. Old fashioned, old(er) money neighborhoods that value peace and quiet. Not for everyone, but hardly in danger.

so what about the swimming pools? Are they close to residents as well? what a bummer

Recently the discussion of doormen came up between a friend and I, both of us live on the UES, and her family was pushing for her to move into a doorman building because they insisted it was safer. Meanwhile I argued that in the past she had had creeper doormen who would hit on her since she has the type of personality where she likes to say hi to everyone and ask how their day is, which gives some weirdos the idea that she must be hitting on them. SIDE NOTE we have long had this debate I have for a long time call the UES section along 5th avenue Central Park East, but she hates when I saying this insisting on simply calling it 5th Avenue, but my point is that if you for instance say "I live on 5th avenue"(which I don't). That could literally be anywhere all the way down to Washington Sq. Park. So I always found it easier to say like "I like the architecture of the buildings along Central Park East". Is this wrong?

R128

Technically yes, Fifth Avenue is "Central Park East", but no one has ever referred to it as such outside of a few limited circumstances.

Fifth Avenue from its origins in Greenwich Village going northward as city moved in that direction has always been associated with wealth and status. When Central Park was completed and remaining shanties along with other "low rent" associations were totally removed from park; association of Fifth Avenue and wealth was solidified. First came mansions of the wealthy, then multi-family housing.

Only time one hears "Central Park East" is some public school way up in East Harlem on Madison Avenue, an area decidedly not wealthy and devoid of status.

Central Park West is really 8th Avenue. It was renamed along with 9th and 10th avenues above 59th street to largely distinguish from the numbered avenues to the south and associated negative connotations.

Chelsea going north through Hell's Kitchen and Lincoln Square were largely areas of manufacturing, tenement housing, slums, and everything else that was decidedly not chic. So the upper middle classes of the rapidly developing UWS wanted something different wanted something better sounding for their addresses.

Thus 9th avenue became Columbus avenue, and 10th Amsterdam avenue.

I'd take offence if lived on Fifth Avenue and you insisted on calling it "Central Park East". Same as would if lived on Park Avenue and you kept calling it "Fourth avenue" (which it basically is, but we're not on that right now).

While we're at it, Sutton Place and York Avenue are really continuations of Avenue A

Doormen or lobby attendants come in various flavors....

Those employed in our very best white glove buildings on UES, UWS, Sutton Place and elsewhere know who they are dealing with; you don't fuck with certain people, their guests or family.

Nothing may be said directly, but make certain action will be taken if even just the slightest whiff of a complaint reaches someone on the board, or worse president of same. If building is union and thus offending person cannot be fired, he will be at least removed to somewhere else. It is same thing with rentals only it is building management that gets involved.

Otherwise building staff range from immigrants off the boat, to friends or family of those in union or maybe already working in building, but don't know their place. It is not unusual for doormen and other male building staff to carry on with female residents (married or single). This can extend to male on male action if that is way things go; but it is a dangerous game.

It isn't only about sex either; some people just don't understand about being in service that there are things you just don't do or say.

R131 All doormen and staff are union in buildings with multiple owners. These particular unions are very powerful.

And the apartments in buildings on Billionaires’ Row are mostly owned by foreigners. Sometimes celebrities are given deals for PR purposes. They are mostly empty. No one wants to live in a building where the only other people are loud DJs or models whose Uncles are oligarchs.

R132

Either you don't live here, and or just don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, 32BJ is a powerful union, but not all multi-family in Manhattan or elsewhere in city is union. Personally know of at least two buildings on Beekman and Sutton place that aren't. A good number of new construction especially down town isn't union either.

This is form 2014, but things haven't changed much, and 32BJ isn't happy.

See also:

Also:

"Of course, the main thrust of SEIU-32BJ's efforts is labor organization. The temptation for building owners to hire non-union workers is great, given the disparity in wages (averaging about $6 per hour instead of $16 per hour) and benefits. SEIU-32BJ seeks to protect the rights of workers in every building–especially non-union ones–and encourage them to join the union. Among the most popular targets for unionization are upscale residential buildings (like condos and co-ops), and commercial and residential buildings in New Jersey, Long Island and Connecticut."

Thus obviously your statement is factually untrue. If every multifamily in NYC were union then 32BJ wouldn't need to target anyone.

Thank you R129 and R130 for your answers you have ended my friend and my years long debate. Even though when I told her the news that she has won the arguement, I know it irked her that it took strangers on an online forum to convince me to secede so at least I got the last laugh!