Should I consider moving to Palm Springs, after living in San Francisco for almost 25 years??

No. Florida is going to become increasingly dangerous to live in and in ten or so years will be America's Puerto Rico. Move to someplace like Denver, CO instead. Global Warming will make Florida uninhabitable for the next chapter in your life.

Just move to shithole countries like Thailand or Philippines and become a saintly sugar daddy there. Third-world whores will worship you, unlike fat whores in Murica.

I guess it's true that Americans really don't know their geography.

Start visiting to see if you like it.

The important think is to move to somewhere that you want to be. Too many people are too anxious to escape a place that they focus on where they want to flee rather than where they want to be.

R3 Sorry, I'm so used to the old fucks on here talking about retiring to Florida that I assumed OP meant Palm Springs, Florida.

PS is too hot about 4 months of the year. Otherwise, it's ideal for homos over 55.

Shady Pines, R1

There is NO Palm Springs, Florida, you stupid cunt.

R8 Love you too, sugar.

OP was surely discussing Palm Springs, CA...where the tops are bottoms, and the bottoms are elderbottoms.

R8 when insulting someone try to also include something that is complimentary. For instance - There is NO Palm Springs, Florida, you [italic]great big[/italic] stupid cunt.

That way it goes down a little easier. Remember, we're trying to be nice at least through January. After that...

Right, now that we've settled that Palm Springs is, in fact, in California... OP, what about the Pacific Northwest?

R1's excuse doesn't even make sense, people talk about Palm Springs all the damn time on this board. It is the eldergay place.

People who have no clue what they are talking about being the first ones to want to run their mouth on a topic. Sad.

Palm Springs: California, Mojave Desert, Indian Wells, Joshua Tree... old people, gays.

Palm BEACH: Florida, Atlantic Ocean, Mara Lago, Bernie Madaoff... old people.

R1 - wtf? OP didn't say a word about Florida, did he? What am I missing?

Palm Springs is beautiful but sort of isolated from the rest of the world—2 hours to LA

Yes, you would love it. I don't know your budget but another place to look at is Laguna Beach. Lots of gays. It's like the West Hollywood of Orange County.

Is there much industry in Palm Springs? Always struck me as a place you retire to/vacation in. Not a place to be if you still need to maintain a career.

You must be able to make some sort of money there.

How about an English tearoom with a Royal theme?

Oh, I forgot about Laguna R17! Fantastic place and just beautiful. You should think about that OP. Have you ever been?

It depends, OP. Are you a self-loathing republican with facial wasting and crix belly? If so, then you’ll fit RIGHT in!

I visited Palm Spring in mid-September several years ago. It was so unbelievably hot that if the nearby fabled "Palm Desert" wildlife centre hadn't had misters spaced out along the pathway around, they would have found my body there the next morning.

It is hot hot hot hot hot from May-October. It was 108F on 12 September there. Many shops in the nearby upscale shopping are are closed in summer as, due to the extreme heat, tourists tend to pour in around Christmas, when it is only in the 70sF. In the Palm Desert mall, a sweet old woman drives around in a covered golf cart in the heat to pick up shoppers trying to go a few blocks - ostensibly as a courtesy, but probably more to avoid bodies outside Saks Fifth Avenue and Tiffany.

It's quite lovely, with some beautiful neighbourhoods and most homes have swimming pools (the one I rented for the week did and it was a great pleasure slipping into it in the early morning and then breakfasting on the patio before it got very hot) . . .

but if you are used to the climate in San Francisco, and you want to live somewhere where the climate doesn't preclude doing much outside for at least four months of the year, or you have the money for two homes, one for those high heat months (many residents are gone for those months), and one for the rest of the year, I would look elsewhere.

From June to September the average high in Palm Springs is over 100 degrees.

[quote]the one I rented for the week did and it was a great pleasure slipping into it in the early morning and then breakfasting on the patio before it got very hot

I wish I'd been there with you!

Why not Marbella, dear?

If all the other threads hadn’t convinced you that PS was a shithhole of heat and environmental degradation, you also should consider that in terms of making a healthy profit on your investment you are probably about 20 years too late. The HIV survivors cashed in on the late 90s bubble in SF and bought the cheap mid-mod houses and have all 5he equity they will ever need. You probably won’t.

Not true. Real Estate is pretty affordable there. Lot's of fixer uppers that need a gay's touch.

[quote]Why not Marbella, dear?

Maybe because he's American?

Also Marbella's not so great in the winter...more of a place to go to in summer.

Today's weather 62˚ -50˚

Check out Guerneville, CA. If you like the vibe there, but wish it were 30 degrees hotter, you'l love Palm Springs.

OP, if you've been in Frisco for 25 years, you just have stay. You're going to be insufferable after that experience. No one south of Colma will be able to stand you. If your damage is not too great, possibly Santa Cruz would take you. But, generally, you're now toxic and no community will take you.

[quote]It is hot hot hot hot hot from May-October. It was 108F on 12 September there.

I can't imagine what that feels like.

Humid as well, or dry heat?

Dry heat, silly Brit. It's in a desert. Dry, dry, heat and searing sunshine.

I visited Palm Springs for the first time, the week before Thanksgiving, this past year. It was fine, but I think I may need to go again, at some point.

Everything is air conditioned. Stop being babies. People love living there and tolerate the heat just fine.

[quote]Dry heat, silly Brit. It's in a desert. Dry, dry, heat and searing sunshine.

Gurlfriend, I'll bet there's a ton of shit you don't know about London and the British Isles. I was once insulted on this site for not know there were wild bears in New Jersey and within an hour of Manhattan. Why should I know that?

Anyway,

[quote] It's in a desert. Dry, dry, heat and searing sunshine.

I'll take that over London dank and gloom any day.

Talking of wildlife, being America, I'll bet there are [bold]ANIMALS THAT CAN KILL YOU[/bold] in PS - so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Perhaps the people living there love it and tolerate the heat.

But everyone else got the hell out of town.

Palm Springs is absolutely not for everyone.

Jumping in to mention that Palm Springs is not in the Mojave Desert, as mentioned above. Now I’m waiting for someone to say that it’s in the Inland Empire, and that there’s lots of crime.

Do you own or rent in SF? If you own, then yes, because the massive amount of money you get for selling in SF. If you rent, then it just depends on whether you can still get fucked in SF or do you have to fish in the older pond now.

IF you don't have at least $1.5 million for a house in P.S., don't bother. That's what it takes to get anything decent there anymore.

How much is a nice mid-century modern house, three beds 2 bath, not too fancy, gonna set you back?

we crossed posts r39

[quote] if you've been in Frisco for 25 years

That's SAN FRANCISCO you ignorant ship-in.

R34 - Then why are so many of them gone in the summer and why are so many of the shops closed during those months? Many residents rent their homes out during those high-heat months, that was the case when I visited, it was a private home.

Many residents may have on balance more reasons to stay than go, but that doesn't mean that someone who isn't used to that climate and doesn't have the means for a second home in cooler climes (several people I knew there at the time fled to the mountains at Idylwild during those months, which I also visited and found quite lovely - although only about 50 miles away, the average temps there in the summer are in the high 80s rather than over 100) shouldn't hear about the extreme summer heat. It CAN be dangerous, you know.

Saying Frisco makes him ignorant?

You could get a nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath for around 500K, but might need a little work. That’s too big for someone his age though.

What R29 said. Also Ventura, Oxnard, Santa Maria, Lompoc, Santa Cruz Mountains, Santa Rosa, Sebastopol.

Just for the record.

Does one's Madame Alexander collection do well in the climate?

FWIW, Palm Springs, FL is situated right on the disappearing coastline of southern Florida. With climate change doing its worst on shorelines in FL, why would anyone move there?!

I rent. This town tests your compassion and empathy, everyday. I'm ready for something different. I supposed where all were we need to be .

No one cares about Palm Springs, FL. Although gays in both cities probably have the same leather bag look.

Bless you, R42. You took the bait.

And in so doing, you demonstrated for us all just why OP, 25 years a San Franciscan, is stuck in that shit hole for eternity.

It's my understanding, All the gays live in Coral Gables Florida if you head to the east coast. The Florida keys look like a nice place to live, IMO; I lived in Santa Cruz. It was a little too slow and sleepy for me and it has that shitty Frisco weather,

[quote]The Florida keys look like a nice place to live, IMO

UM...not so much after Irma.

Carlos also check out Santa Fe and Albuquerque. Gay friendly. Artsy. New Mexico has four seasons.

Also, The Keys are slap bang in the middle of NOWHERE

Who would live in trashy Florida besides tax dodgers? It’s the sketchy joke state of this millennium.

The level of geographical ignorance on this thread is strong! Coral Gables is the Scarsdale of Miami... a rich suburban town full of families not gay men.

Florida gays live primarily in Wilton Manors and other parts of Fort Lauderdale plus there’s still a smattering of them in Miami Beach.

[quote] R9 Love you too, sugar.

Who cares if there is some puny town in Florida called Palm Springs. Anyone with an IQ above 80 automatically assumes you're talking about the city in California when Palm Springs is mentioned.

When's the last time you been there, R58? Coral Gables is a gay mecca now.

Let's move on from the Florida blunder.

R58 I meant Wilton Manors. Oops, sowwy.

Last week R60. Please enlighten me about the gay Mecca part... list the gay clubs and restaurants. I’m really curious.

Can you also link some recent newspaper and other media coverage about that new gay Mecca Coral Gables? Thanks

They've had terrible problems with water shortages and drought.

Renting is probably a better idea, so you can flee when the going gets too tough.

Half the posts in this thread and beginning with R1 should be signed Miss Dora Dumbfuck

r64 The drought is all of california, not isolated to Palm Springs. And it's over, for now.

Laguna Beach is not nearly as gay as it used to be.

If OP is in SF, he's likely very familiar with Santa Rosa, Santa Cruz, Guerneville, etc. already -- they're all within an hour or two.

If you're seriously considering PS, then you might want to think about alternate plans for the summer months -- like traveling to or renting in a cooler climate. I live in a warmer part of LA County, and rather than have two residences, that's what I've been doing in the summer -- renting a place on VRBO somewhere where it's not as oppressively hot in the summer. That way you can mix it up and not be locked into the same place every year.

HOW GAY does a place need to be?

Grindr is EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tons of gays in San Diego!!! Weather is beautiful!

I would move to LA. I'm 39, live in SF, from LA, go to Palm Springs all the time, love it, but not full time. The guys my age have basically given up on life and I was shocked how many looked like death. Drugs, drinking, and there is no trade there - so there are no jobs. The eldergays who live there seem to busy going after guys my age who are considered twinks in Palm Springs. They seem to like the lifestyle but the single 55+ crowd all appear to be legit alcoholics. Most of them don't work and start drinking around 4:30pm. I wouldn't do it if I were still single and might have a chance to find someone. I'd get a small apt or condo in LA and house in Palm Springs for long weekends. Leave on Fridays and head back on Mondays. I love it there for a weekend, but I think I would get seriously depressed full time. Again, I can't get over how unhealthy the guys are there. Laguna is awesome. Although I work in read estate and just did a post about the least expensive house in LB with major ocean views and it was 4.5M. Long Beach might be a good happy medium between WeHo, Laguna and Palm Springs. I'm thinking of getting out of the city and going back to LA, so I feel you.

There is a big gay community in Long Beach. Two communities that are part of Long Beach, Belmont Shores and Naples. are nice.

Long Beach is GHETTO! The gay bars are depressing, filled with melancholy people, or it’s high drama LatinX. During the day, trashy people with tattoos, vapes and pit bulls (daaayuuuum). The ghetto LA schtick gets old real quick.

r73 You are right about LB, but OP is from Frisco so he probably used to all that up north.

[quote]but OP is from Frisco so he probably used to all that up north.

Yes and wants to get away from it.

Folks, if you're going to abbreviate San Francisco, the correct abbreviation is San Fran, not Frisco.

Correct?

Smell you, R76.

No one cares about Florida: Palm Beach, Palm Springs, Gulfside, Oceanside, in a condo, in the mouth of an alligator...enjoy.

R1 may have been too drunk to understand that of course, OP was talking about California and not Florida.

But her basic premise actually holds up. It will probably be uninhabitable eventually.

Yes, but then R1 recommends Denver...who would want to retire to fucking DENVER?

It's "San Fran" if you're from there. If you're not, it's FRISCO! You fastidious faggot. Now, sit down and SHUT UP!!!

Can you imagine retiring in Denver? “Let’s go on ANOTHER hike!”

Palm Springs is in the Sonoran Desert. I moved here from Phoenix a bit over two years ago. The air is cleaner than Phoenix, and the pace of life here is glacial compared to the coast.

I drive to the coast on weekends in the summer. That is a big plus. The summers are insanely hot, even by Phoenix standards. It has yet to freeze here, and the winters are like a dream here.

The scenery is spectacular. Many places to hike in the canyons, the mountains are right in front of your door.

The social scene seems quite tight knit and closed, many are older and they seem not to like outsiders.

Overall I do like it and may stay, Laguna Beach is a possibility, but that will come maybe in a year.

[quote]Many places to hike in the canyons, the mountains are right in front of your door.

Mountain lions? Bears? Snakes?

R84, Ther are mountain lions in the low elevation canyons and of course snakes. I have been hiking in the mountains all around Phoenix wilderness areas and here, the chance of getting one close up to you is very rare.

Snakes are another thing. You just say on the trail and look ahead and you should not have an issue. Rattlesnakes usually let you know if you are close. But you can see them passing the trail ahead of you sometimes. Bites are very rare, you have to be very stupid to get hit.

The trails are very well traveled, the noise people make scares everything away. Go for it when you are here. It is amazingly beautiful.

For love of Christ, stop typing "Frisco"!

[quote]The trails are very well traveled, the noise people make scares everything away. Go for it when you are here. It is amazingly beautiful.

What I'd really like to do is go horseback riding in the desert.

Also take the cable car up the mountain to see the snow.

I've lived here for 25 years and still love it. Summers aren't a problem if you have air conditioning and a pool. But we do have quite a few coyotes lurking around my neighborhood, which is not good for cats.

Could someone who's good at this find a nice 2 bed 2 bath mid-century for under or around a million to look at?

DLers are such WETS about the weather!

"Gurl, NO! Too much snow in winter!"

"Gurl, NO! Too much heat in summer!"

[quote] But we do have quite a few coyotes lurking around my neighborhood, which is not good for cats.

Coyotes are GREAT for cats. I wish we had a few coyotes in my neighborhood. And fewer crazy cat ladies.

10 years ago I left SF for Palm Springs. I was forced out of my apartment in San Francisco and also tired of being cold all of the time. Palm Springs was fine really in the summer. I loved the heat. I did adjust my schedule somewhat in order to be out in it. Plenty of people stay year round in PS. My boyfriend's family is in Phoenix and we moved here two years ago. Another hot city but all fine in the summer.

I guess being CA they must have marijuana dispensaries in PS now!!

Bitches please! Frisco is a town in Texas. Only lowbrow tourist trash from New Jersey would refer to San Francisco as "Frisco".

r94 "New Jersey!" How dare you! Try Hemet California! Deep in the arid Inland Empire! And I would never live in Frisco because I couldn't shoot my guns out my back door and where the fuck am I supposed to park my double wide! Fuck that!

R89 check out the historic Twin Palms neighborhood for that exact style and below $1m

"It was so unbelievably hot that if the nearby fabled "Palm Desert" wildlife centre hadn't had misters spaced out along the pathway ..."

R87, Mr. Brit, here is a place right up the street from me, I pass it on my daily bike ride. It is very nice and the rides seem like a good deal through the desert.

Spaced out misters, at that.

Spaced out misters are due to the presence of the dispensaries that R93 mentioned.

You will find many peers. Lots of happy, retired gay men just like you to befriend.

But you'll also find a lot of alcoholics, no young gay men to break up the monotony, practically no good restaurants and I've heard the summers are miserably hot (I've only vacationed there in winters, when it's lovely).

R87, Mr. Brit, Tahquitz Canyon is probably one of the most beautiful canyon hikes in the Sonoran Desert. It's a very easy hike in and out. Spectacular scenery.

A common theme among all gay retirement communities - alcohol(ism). In Wilton Manors, Palm Springs - even the Castro which has almost become a NORC - the bars fill up in late afternoon with eldergays. May just be a fact of life for this generation of gay men who are retiring. We are used to socializing in bars - and without work or time constraints, it passes the time in a social environment. Maybe that’s part of the attraction - the ability to hang out in gay bars. Personally, I found it an unhealthy environment - but everyone is different.

And you know what happens when the cats disappear?

Nothing is more pathetic than a sloppy drunk in their 50's. I have a neighbor who wanders around the carport in the morning and afternoons and she can't find her unit. It's really bad. She drives drunk too. I keep seeing her return from the liquor store with more booze and she can barely walk. The neighbors have been trying to help her, but she does not want help.

I've never been in a room full of drunk elderly men. I don't know how I would handle it. I think it would be really weird. My dad was an alcoholic but he would just sit and then go to bed.

Thank you, R98.

Boy, not cheap those rides!

Canyon Haul Ride: $120. per person - One hour 40 minute ride time.

R105 - for the most part, drunk eldergays can handle their liquor pretty well. Talking about barflies rather than stay-at-home drunks - who are generally more socially coherent. And they know they will be banned if they get too messy too often. With that said, I could never be a bartender at one of those places - don’t know how they put up with it. But does provide a social and chatty environment for eldergays which is good.

There must be plenty of ex-alcoholic gays who are on the programme or whatever you call it.

Yes, R108. The best social networking in Palm Springs happens in AA.

You can always change your name to JustinKeithXXX and start doing amateur porn to make some extra cash. Lots of older gents do it there. Hopefully that name isn’t taken.

There are six or seven on the corner down the street from me in Cathedral City.

PS is where gay men go to die. It is not so bad a death.

Why anyone would want to live in the desert is completely beyond me.

I think it sounds fun. I've always thought a condo community dedicated just for gay men would be cool!

I can't think of anything worse quite frankly. Just imagine all the hissing and bitching at each other over nothing that would go on 24/7. One thing I learned long ago as a young gayling is that you can not have too many homos together in one general location. It just never works out. Everybody will want to be in charge and decide what's best for all.

I once worked in an office with 9 gay men in New York and it was awful. I tend to avoid gay men in packs now.

R96, you are spot on!

[quote] Can you imagine retiring in Denver? “Let’s go on ANOTHER hike!”

Denver really isn't radically different than Palm Springs, tbh.

There are nice sections but also sections that are dire and sad, covered in sand and regret.

The homeless/mentally ill problem is out of control in both places. (slightly more so in Denver)

The differences are that Denver has more guns and, while it has a very moderate winter, more snow. And less oldsters.

Without wanting to start something again, isn't Palm Springs part of the Inland Empire? Who wants to live there?

r113, think of it as Travolta's sauna/steam 24/7...

There must be places that are not TOO gay, a less orthodox community.

I'd make sure you really are sick of San Francisco. It's so expensive now. If you are in an affordable situation (in SF) and give it up, it may be financially impossible to go back to SF.

I don't understand the lure of Palm Springs. I would prefer SF. Take some long vacations. Get out of SF for a while, without actually moving.

Sorry, I didn't read all of the previous posts and may have repeated what posters above have said.

[quote]I think it sounds fun. I've always thought a condo community dedicated just for gay men would be cool!

There are gay retirement communities now, including this very nice (and pricey) one in Santa Rosa.

To those living in PS — have you ever found snakes in your yard or pool?

I can’t deal with snakes.

The constructive and civil comments are appreciated. I should also say, I live independently, though disabled (mild cerebral palsy), and I don't drive, though I should learn. In any case, my first visit to Palm Springs, was just to test it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

R125 In that case, PS may really be a good choice for you.

However, I'd still worry about summers. And you'd want to make sure wherever you lived had solar panels (and possibly a backup generator) for summertime, when AC is on literally 24/7.

I'm a 40/F in a freezing cold state (which is killing me, especially winter driving) considering both Palm Springs or, actually Florida (researching areas, might start a thread) on where to move and start over more or less. I spent 10+ years in Los Angeles in my 20's. At one time recently I was very set on Palm Springs. I have a tourism background so figured I could find work, or just pick something up at a hotel/restaurant. Love the mountains. Find the city so relaxing. It was also the only thing I could afford in the area. But I'm not feeling very inspired by California anymore. A few friends have moved to Florida and it's been on my mind. Despite all the cliches I'm curious about making a move.

Agree w/ the poster who said upthread that once you leave SF there is no going back unless you are incredibly wealthy or want to share a place for 2K/month. If you have a rent controlled apt or own a house in a good area, I would keep it and rent it to me :-) PS is an easy 1 hr flight out of SFO and you can chill there for the fall & winter for relatively cheap and then come back to the city for the summers. If you meet a cool crew of friends and can handle the weather, you can always stay full time. Definitely do an extended test run before committing. There are a lot of centrally located in neighborhoods in PS that are an easy walk to the gay bars & dining which will be fine to do in the fall/winter/spring before the weather gets brutal. The weather from Oct - March is pretty amazing. You can order groceries relatively cheap. If you are an eldergay, I would also look at medical care there, although I imagine between the gays and the straight retirees, it's probably pretty good. I feel though like PS might be a place one could easily feel isolated in, especially coming from a city where there is always things going on around you. While I suggested Long Beach and agree that the people are generally trash, there is way more eye candy than what you will find with Palm Springs full time and more stuff to do. Just something to consider.

R128, I recently visited Long Beach and was expecting it to be trashy and found it pretty cute, clean, quiet and very gay friendly. I don't know what area I was in but it was maybe 15 minutes walking distance to the pier and the convention center. It was much nicer than I expected. I'm sure there are grimy areas with higher crime though.

Long Beach has a pier?

Still fascinated by the aftermath of R1's daydrinking. Is he/she really unaware that [italic]Puerto Rico[/italic] is "America's Puerto Rico"?

Just get the idea of Long Beach out of your heads, it’s not what you think. I used to drive through and think, “this is rather nice”, I even worked at a firm there. Then, I visited my friend there a couple of times, and thought, I could live here. Each time I noticed more and more that it’s ghetto, and the gay men are desperate and WEIRD!

[quote] A few friends have moved to Florida and it's been on my mind.

Coral Gables? A lot of gays are going there.

OP, if you don’t drive, even more reason to stay in SF. Maybe others can chime in on whether you “need” a car in Palm Springs. Owning a car is a pretty significant expense.

What's fascinating to me and I remember this from when I was there years ago, even in the centre of town - there are empty lots! Places where nothing's been built yet.

I was thinking the same, R134. Palm Springs seems like Car-World to me, but escaping that leaves very few options in the U.S., and fewer still with warm weather.

Palm Springs was platted by some strange arrangement between the railroad and the native American tribe that is native to the region- the Agua Caliente band of the Cahuilla Indians. So the entire valley is laid out as a massive checkerboard, with all the "black" squares having been sold off by the railroads to developers, and all of the "white" squares belonging to the Indians, some of which is developed and some of which is empty. That's why you might have a densely developed area for one mile square, and then a big swath of empty desert next to it.

A person COULD live car free in PS, if he could find housing and chose to live within a mile of the central downtown area. There are grocery stores, pharmacies, clothing stores and other stores in that swath, as well as bars, movie theaters, and the warm sands area (cruisy gay resort area) all within fairly easy walking distance. PS proper is flat as a pancake, with all the elevation happening on the perimeter of the Coachella valley. However, that sort of car-free life would be "constrained", particularly during summer. You'd have to walk early in the morning or well after dark to avoid being fried like an egg.

What's the big deal with empty lots for sale R135? It simply means PS is a city that still has room to grow. I like watching new things being built, especially on pieces of property where nothing stood before or where something unsightly was there before.

OP should just get a car, it’s not the end of the world. Part of the reason why people move to Palm Springs is to be themselves. There’s no one bragging about how they live in Manhattan and walk to 6 different markets to do their shopping. It’s a place to relax without judgment.

[quote]What's the big deal with empty lots for sale [R135]?

I should have explained. I'm from England - you never see vast empty lots in an established city.

[quote]It simply means PS is a city that still has room to grow.

I know and I love that.

[quote]I like watching new things being built, especially on pieces of property where nothing stood before or where something unsightly was there before.

So do I.

I even remember when there were empty lots right on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood...not in 1926, in the 70s! All gone now.

I was only in PS fort a week, as I mentioned in my first post, in mid-September, but I cannot imagine one could live there without a car. As so many have mentioned, for four months out of the year, walking about to do errands or waiting for public transportation would take a hardy soul in the sunny hours of the day. And if one is truly elderly, that heat must be considered a real health hazard.

I'm not a fan of the desert overall; I can appreciate its unique look, and someone mentioned to me that I should have come at the December holidays, when the sky thereabouts can turn an interesting almost pale green. I didn't see it so can't attest to its reality.

You have to know who you are. If you're accustomed to and like maples and green country roads and moisture and/or sophisticated city life with public transportation everywhere, you might not be too happy in PS. If you're adaptable and don't mind fitting your life around the four months of extreme summer heat, and really love the desert look, it could be the right place.

You don't know till you try, is the problem.

[quote] If you're accustomed to and like maples and green country roads and moisture

MARY!

Pale green sky? Someone seems to be color blind? I’ve been going to Palm Springs for my entire life, and have never seen this.

The desert is not a look, it’s nature.

I once spent Christmas Eve in a hot tub in Palm Springs with a nice man from Chicago and a bottle of champagne. It was great.

But then the next day came and I was in Palm Springs.

Naked Christmas brunch around the pool was good fun. I'll give it that.

^ Hawt!

It bothers me how most people don’t understand how the desert is full of plants and animals and goes through seasons. There are areas that are actually really lush. Interestingly enough, it’s the perspective of someone who sits in a car, and doesn’t bother to explore.

[quote] Pale green sky?

Yes, that's what Palm Springs is famous for.

It must be a combination of pollution and senior living that creates the pale green sky.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the bears!

They call them "convergences".

A gay need never be lonely in PS.

It's Eldergay Soup!

The pale green sky is an eldergay fringe benefit of the glaucoma meds.

Been there several times and am thinking about moving there as well...and don't drive as well...but never had any trouble getting anywhere with Lyft or Uber for very little money. and the bus system isn't too bad.

New to PS from flyoverstan(early retirement). I find the relaxed lifestyle so appealing after 35 years in the hustle bustle of the corporate work world. The physical beauty astounds me and this coming from someone who NEVER considered desert living. The preponderance of gay men has taken some getting used to (in a good way) as I hail from the Midwest and a certain degree of assimilation was expected. But I find that there are SO many hot and good looking and fit 50-70 yr old men here, its very tempting. Most men of that age group back in the Midwest are beyond hope. The weather is so nice and the heat really is "dry" most of the summer and beats a "cooler" but humid, Midwest summer any day.

I’m with the above who say stay in SF if you can. Just get away regularly. As much as I get sick of NYC and have fantasies of returning someplace warm and quiet, a week or two there usually cures me of the fantasy. Being surrounded by life and activity and options keeps me engaged in life.

Curious if there are any PSers who wish they stayed in SF, LA, NY? Don’t you miss the diversity and activity? Maybe I’m wrong.

R155 = best post of the whole thread.

And the aroma of the flowers that release their scent at night is intoxicating. I've never experienced that until I visited PS. It's amazing.

OMG... I guess you hear that exotic sound of crickets at night!

R156 the ones I have met from SF and NY don't miss it and just go back for weekend or weeklong visits to take in the action. LA'ers practically use this as a commuting suburb. I am having the most trouble getting to know LA gays They are unique in the world!.

[quote]What I'd really like to do is go horseback riding in the desert

I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no name.

SF native, 10yr Angeleno, SF again here...

I agree with the long test others recommended. As someone who has navigated both the SF and LA scenes that are populating PS these days, the transition may not be for everyone.

Given its proximity to LA and the rest of SoCal, PS is influenced by both. SoCal folks obviously don't care, but SF gays (especially those who arrived in the mid 90s) come from a different mindset. My experience.

Have to agree with you on SF's trials and tribulations. I've found myself becoming ruder and just plain meaner because people here are way too engrossed in themselves with no consideration of others. It's all about beating others here. Me first.

I don't like it. Always considered PS for retirement, but now also considering very gay and very expat friendly Mexico.

Old time CA native. PS is definitely for a select group - the desert has always been that. "Retired" lifestyle mixed with western rough hewn folk (meth epidemic in adjacent Desert Hot Springs). Folks for half the year spend most of the day in AC environments - that would seem to be a challenge - do you want to live in air conditioning? That being said, there's a reason why the desert has always attracted retirees - the dry weather, dry heat... makes the old body feel more flexible, more alive. Those rusty joints full of qi energy, ready for the trail or the gym.

FRISCO; this is a century-old crack-wise. SF natives get all huffy and offended. Many LA natives know it and just say Frisco to fuck with them. Although my Dad always said Frisco. When I left LA 25 years ago to re-locate in Bay Area I noted all this smack talk about LA - and this great North/South rivalry. I was amused. To LA folk, SF was a quaint weekend getaway. To SF folk, LA was this competing metropolis, which was flashy, superficial, and had no culture. Culture in LA - art, music, museum, international communities, cuisine... really is world-class. In SF, not so much. And the SF of my youth (yes, I first was in SF in the early 60s, Nob Hill and 90% of the women with hats, and then the summer of '67, and all the decades since) - doesn't really exist anymore. The beatnik North Beach, the boho vibe, the druggy Haight, the extreme 24-7 sports of the Castro - the residue of all that is an eroding SF-World theme park. The affluence and the homeless, the tech bro arrogance and narcissism, the lack of black and middle class residents, the gentrification of the Mission where it's increasingly hard to find a Mexican - the "diverse" ethnicity increasingly just one kind of affluent Asians. Long term friends who have been SF-centric all their lives... are exploring where to move.

R162 again.

Also, I highly recommend a car in PS. Besides the heat (which has already been discussed), in the winter it does get very cold for CA (30s-40s) once the sun sets behind Mt. San Jacinto. Even compared to SF it feels much colder as it is a dry bone chilling cold and unlike SF you will likely not be dragging layers all over the place all day.

Not to mention the housing for locals in the immediate area around the bars and shops for the most part is cheap and troubled by drugs and crime. Think SF levels, OP.

Finally, as R155 noted, gay men there take pride in themselves. That's a remnant of the LA/Socal vibe they spent their 20s-40s in. They might not judge you on your looks (for the most part), but they will absolutely judge you on the lack of a car. It's So Cal still...

R163 is spot on.

OP, the SF you remember is gone forever.

Typing this as I drive by 3000+ month apartments (in the East Bay, in SF they would be 4000+).

Now approaching the 80 and greeted by our lovely local homeless encampment by the freeway.

But man, everyone else is making 6 digits.

Why is anyone worried that they’ll be judged? Do what you want, gay men need to stop caring what everyone thinks. Especially in the desert, you have the freedom to be a weirdo. Maybe that’s why I like the Joshua Tree/High Desert area better. There are more experimental artists and crazy people that are just more fun.

R166 OP is asking about PS not Joshua Tree or High Desert.

Joshua Tree is ok.

The rest of the High Desert is creepy. Just like extreme Northern CA coast.

People who don't want to be found for sure. More power to you if that's your thing.

R135 notice the lot is FOR LEASE. It’s owned by the Indian tribe. Who in their right mind would pay to develop a vacant lot and not own the land?

The High Desert isn’t creepy, which most people don’t know if they haven’t explored places like Amboy or Mojave National Preserve. There’s a whole world off the interstate that few know about.

"I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no name"

-It felt good to get out of the rain

I skimmed through the last 50 or so replies, so hopefully no one has already mentioned this. AC can only provide a 20 degree drop in temperature. So when it's over 100 degrees outside, you are talking about keeping your house at 80 plus degrees. Also, you can count on a $400/mo energy bill. And in spite of all the claims that it is dry heat, 100 degrees is still plenty hot.

As an outsider, based solely what I've read on Datalounge, it seems Palm Springs is ideal for someone who enjoys being part of a tight-knit/clique-ish gay community where everyone knows each other and everyone goes to Bar X on Tuesdays and Restaurant Y and Wednesdays and works out at Gym Z between 9 and 11 AM.... you know the drill.

If that sounds like something you'd love be a part of, then go for it.

The Agua Caliente Band of the Cauhilla Indians are the owners of the checkerboard parcels in Palm Springs and the tribe works with the city on building things. The city has no right to tell the Indians what they can or cannot build on their land. Now the Tribe is building a hockey arena downtown on their land, and the adjacent landowners are having a fit. I think it is going to be fantastic.

The Tribe has always been nice and has contributed greatly to the whole Coachella Valley, and are wonderful, a far different situation than between Scottsdale and their Urban Tribe never-ending arguments and petty back and forths.

R171 Not true

Spent many weekends in PS.

Family in Sacramento area which regularly hovers at 100 from June-Sep and so I know further not true.

Yeah, the guy claiming air conditioning only drops the temp 20 degrees is a troll. What an asinine thing to say. I have AC and sometimes it gets TOO COLD!

The only thing that sucks is pool water gets too hot so it's not refreshing, but they actually make pool air conditioners that pump out the hot water and pump in the cooled water but those are expensive to run.

Solar panels are now a must to keep cooling costs down.

How would you all compare Palm Springs to Wilton Manors? Pros/cons. It’s ironic to me they both have a Hunters. Though WM seems heavier on strippers and sleaze - and less isolated. Perhaps not as pretty.

What will happen when there’s an inevitable power outage in PS in the summer? Can’t run the AC.

You use the back up generator in the garage.

Re the pale green sky: I'm only reporting what I was told. Never saw it myself, made that clear, and have no intention of ever returning there again.

As for the summer heat . . .

"Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun."

[quote] How would you all compare Palm Springs to Wilton Manors?

Wilton Manors is generally considered more sophisticated and higher class. But it also costs more to live there.

Wilton Manors is higher class ? I thought the opposite.

Wilton Manors is on canals so plenty of alligators! Palm Springs is in a desert, so has plenty of snakes and spiders! Pick your poison!

r182, and to add to the happiness, Las Vegas has Palm Rats (from AZ) and scorpions.

Scorpions crunch just like cockroaches.

Pass the orange juice.

No one is talking about Las fucking Vegas, R183

And PS has those giant moths that look like flying mice with stick legs. So gross!

r184, a mention is not a discussion. And Las Vegas and Phoenix share many of the same environmental and cultural problems as Palm Springs.

But thank you for being a DL Hall Cunt.

I'd pick PS over Vegas any day. PS is more gay populated, more beautiful, and it's proximity to skiing, and the coast make it a no brainer.

Vegas is way more depressing than PS.

Do gays even live in Vegas? Seems very straight trash to me.

What's happened, in the old days they'd be all sorts of links and pics and properties. I guess everyone is too old and doesn’t know how to do all that.🦽👨‍🦳👨🏻‍🏫

No, R190, they’re in the other 393 threads on Palm Springs

Here ya go r190

Everything said about Las Vegas is true. It was included only for comparison. Same with Phoenix.

On the other side of the state, If I were selling a multi-million dollar home in SF and I loved SF, I would buy a magnificent home in Taho, pocket the cash, and commute to SF as wanted.

Regarding the Wilton Manors v. Palm Springs distinction --

As a former Angeleno and now Friscan (lol), I'm biased towards CA and for that reason Palm Springs. I've been going regularly for almost two decades now.

I have only been to Wilton Manors once.

My immediate thoughts:

-NO WAY would I ever think Wilton Manors was classy, much less classier than PS. Palm Springs has Hollywood history, coveted architecture, and a unique geographical setting. Wilton Manors is basically another Florida suburb but populated by gays.

-on that note, Palm Springs is a destination in and of itself; Wilton Manors is like a satellite for Fort Lauderdale and to a lesser degree Miami. Sure it has the gay bars, but that's it. Rarely would someone visit just to stay in Wilton Manors (I wouldn't).

-Palm Springs is absolutely dead in the summer. And to a lesser degree, it's also much more quiet Mon-Thu when all the weekenders go back home. High season brings more folks, but overall it is a sleepy town. Wilton Manors seems less likely to experience this phenomenon, but I'm just guessing.

Other than those two immediate observations, they are basically the West and East Coast versions of each other. LA/SF fleeing to warmer climates. NYC/DC/Boston fleeing to warmer climates. Both skew older. Both also feel like a relic of bygone days of gayborhoods.

Still, PS is likely a retirement destination for my partner and I unless I can convince him that Puerto Vallarta would be better off.

I will say that despite the cliques and judgmentalism of So Cal gays, people generally seem happy to live in Palm Springs. Don't have enough experience with Wilton Manors to comment. I just hope PS doesn't get too expensive before we retire (44 and 42 respectively here).

For those who doubt the limitation of AC, See attached link.

Here is a quote from the article:

[quote]When air blows over your air conditioner’s cooling coils, the temperature of the air drops about 20 degrees. If your system were to cool down the temperature of your air any lower, the air coming out of your vents would be frigid and uncomfortable. What this means is that your air conditioner supports a maximum temperature drop of about 20 degrees between supply and return air.

[quote]On most days, a 20 degree temperature drop is perfectly fine and your home will stay right around the temperature at which you set your thermostat. On extremely hot days, however, your air conditioner might not be able to cool down your home to its normal temperature. If it’s 100 degrees outside, for example, your air conditioner might only be capable of cooling your home down to 80 degrees (although likely a bit lower since your indoor return air is usually cooler than the air outside).

Go away AC troll, with your Flyover HVAC's poor advice.

Oh Brother. Indoor Temperature has many factors at play. Insulation in the walls, ceiling, and attic. The height of the ceilings. The number of vents and registers. The distance the air has to travel from the cooling unit. The square footage of the home. list goes on and on.

Now, sit down and shut up! You didn't prove anything by posting that. How pathetic. You've been scouring the internet looking for proof of your bullshit? Why don't you just ask someone who has Central AC, YOU DUNCE!!!

I'm the poster upthread who was only in PS for a week and felt near collapse from the heat.

That said, I have also been in Las Vegas and Phoenix, for my sins, and if my life depended on being forced to choose between the three as a resident for the rest of my life, I would have to say that even on limited experience, PS would be the best of three.

It's a lovely late afternoon in Palm Springs right now. About 78. The sun will be setting soon, and the azure silhouette of the sky and mountains will be spectacular.

We put up with the summers for moments like these.

Sounds like heaven, R199 and in JANUARY! OMG!

Can you smell the jasmine nectar in the air this time of year?

No, just the Jism nacreum

I hope you are laying there with your houseboy, in flagrante!

His name is José, not Flagrante!

How lovely. This time of year you can catch a beautiful stunning sunset and still have time to catch the early bird specials at Coco's!

YourMillenialFriend, you’re one of my DL faves. Regarding crowds of gays that have a bar schedule, I’ve found that many gents just do what they want in PS. No matter where I go there’s always someone friendly and fun. The whole point of being somewhere like PS is that no one is pressuring you, and you can wear a kaftan if you want.

What Palm Springs is all about.

I know there are nudist hotels in the Palm Springs area, but are there any Nudist colonies. It seems like the perfect environment for living naked!

Former Project Runway contestant Michael Costello had (has) a store in PS. Faye Dunaway once came in and said she was happy that someone was trying couture in PS.

Thanks for that tidbit, Michael. I don’t remember you from the show.

r208 There is a non-gay nudist apartment complex. There is at least one nudist resort farther west--near Lake Elsinore.

R210, thanks for that. You don't remember me perhaps because I was too busy designing Beyonce's Grammy Dress to attend your Beers and Bears party.

Thanks again, Michael. It’s great that Beyoncé lends a helping hand to struggling designers. It’s unfair to give all the work to well known designers.

[QUOTE]if you're going to abbreviate San Francisco, the correct abbreviation is San Fran, not Frisco.

I prefer SANFRIS!

Honey, I'm a fourth-generation San Franciscan, and the ONLY thing we ever called it was "The City."

Fourth -generation, huh? Your family must have seen people shit on every corner in town- or done it yourselves! Impressive.

Around fifteen years or so ago, Michael Costello had a shop on Palm Canyon in downtown Palm Springs. Across from the Hyatt, second floor with big windows to the street. MICHAEL COSTELLO in big gold letters. The dresses displayed in the windows were beyond tacky, and I remember thinking "this is where hookers go to buy their prom dresses." When he was first on Project Runway, I of course remembered him, and was surprised that he got as far as he did. But I rooted for him because he was continually attacked by those two horrible women and felt compassion for him.

But his work is still hookerish.

R215, I've got news for you. New York City is The City.

You are just in Frisco.

My parents are from San Francisco and they called it FRISCO as a fun term of endearment.

So, suck it.

As if being from San Francisco is something to be proud of.

Wow, I ❤️ DL. You could also say “whoreish”. I can’t remember what word Crystal uses in Showgirls.

"Whorey look"

The City is in London, you bloody whores.

Not any more, R223. Not after Brexit. The entire country is making itself too small and insignificant to warrant hosting "The City." London is soon just going to be a big town. You screwed yourselves.