Economic Implications re Most of China Under Quarantine

About 50,000,000 Chinese are under quarantine with almost no internet access.

The virus is causing the stock markets worldwide to drop hundreds/thousands of points. Much of the commerce has stopped in China. Trains all over the county have stopped especially this week when its the Chinese New Year and millions of people were planning to travel.

So yes, this virus has terrible worldwide financial implications.

And no one knows how it arrived. Scary.

R3, I've read several extremely plausible theories online with links to established medical resources. Proven there was a Patient Zero too. However I'm sick of being called "chicken little" for posting the info I've read elsewhere on the internet as I was on the 1st thread I started on this issue almost a week ago.

R2, Thank you for your accurate info. Even Chinese New Year's wouldn't tank the Chinese economy like "Wu Flu" is doing. Nor would all international business travel to China be cancelled with barely a day warning.

Only Tibet has had zero cases of "Wu Flu" possibly because of their very high altitude and the unusual standard Tibetan diet and lifestyle.

Note: North Korea immediately closed their border with China and restricted all incoming Chinese visitors well before 1/1/20.

I know this is a gossip board, but I think you are just trying to scare people with all he rumors. Yes it is concerning and we don’t yet know what we are dealing with, so he speculation seems misguided.

R6, If the world's 2nd largest economy in the world tanks don't you think that would affect the US as well as the rest of the world?

Talk to those in the lobster and crawfish industries in WA state who saw their stock rates go from about 120 to 0 as all Chinese New Year celebrations in China were abruptly cancelled.

That's small potatoes compared to the rest of American companies which rely heavily on Chinese trade.

Watch every Chinese student in the US try to bring his/her family and relatives here for "humanitarian reasons." Expect these students to return to their home country in the next few years? Do you know how many Chinese own property in the US as a hedge against future disaster in China?

The virus started as a result of contaminated livestock due to poor farming conditions. It's impossible to track down a patient zero (mostly due to the fact that they've likely already been carried away in the night by the Chinese gestapo), but this specific type of viral infection can only be started through the contamination of livestock.

R8, Please tell me that you don't believe what you just wrote. Otherwise why would a lab in Canada have a very similar chimera virus, a hybrid developed from a cold-water snake and a warm-blooded bat and never found in nature?

R8, Do you know that there's talk that the Chinese elite have admitted that there was an accident in their #1 lab for bio-weapons research? Israeli intelligence has verified it in the MSM.

R8, Oh, and guess where China's #1 lab for bio-weapons development is located? Wuhan, just a short distance from their wet market which sells live and dead wild animals like the kinds used for bio research.

R8, Please ask the owners of Canada's bio-research lab why they seized the computers of a couple of their top Chinese scientists who were making multiple 2-week trips to Wuhan's bio-research lab. Also why they arranged for their forcible removal from the lab via guards.

R8, Do you know what this same couple happened to steal from the Canadian lab? You must know that they transported it to the bio-weapons lab in Wuhan, right? Do you know why American bio-medical research labs refused $$$$ to work on the development of this virus as a weapon of mass destruction?

R8, Are you aware that American, Canadian, and international specialists from all over the world all put out warnings re the total lack of security and SOP of Wuhan's bio-research lab? Also that China was violating international treaties through continued bio-hazard development for warfare?

R5 Are you hoping the term 'Wu Flu' catches on?

R7 Would be great if manufacturing returned to the West en masse.

Please Chinese people, minimise your contact with your dragons - they are possible sources of the virus (along with bats and snakes).

This could bring financial panic and recession. Cheeto should worry.

R11, I didn't originate the nickname "Wu Flu" nor "Kung Flu." The former is quicker to type.

Believe the top authorities in China are calling it "Wu Flu" to imply that what's killing so many of it's citizens is a simple flu rather than an intentionally developed and extremely deadly bio-virus.

Didn't Cheeto defund all kinds of research, resources and federal aid to prevent and deal with pandemics to pay for his wall, tax cuts for the rich and other shit? It would be interesting to know if the CDC or other agencies still have the necessary resources to deal with a pandemic in case of a national emergency.

R13, Have you seen the disgusting videos on YouTube and on Twitter of Chinese eating bat soup and live newborn mice dipped in chili sauce? Or worse of the "wet markets?"

R12, Yes it would help America's economy if those companies that have set up manufacturing in China would return to the US as well. Did you know that most US chicken is processed in China?

More importantly what's going to happen to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4?

You know that stuff is made specifically for the Chinese to consume. They put a lot of money in Disney / Marvel's pockets.

R19, How about playing the linked free game instead? To lighten things up. . .

They contracted it because of this most likely.

R21, If it was simply eating snakes then why has this horrific disease suddenly appeared?

R21, Why did Chinese doctors catch it simply by sitting next to other doctors who'd had a brief visit to Wuhan? Why have at least 6 political elite already died, and the party authorities of Wuhan need to be immediately replaced? Why did the top doctor in Wuhan who discovered it in late Oct/early Nov escape to Hong Kong?

R22: I just thought this was interesting because it's a likely cause. I'm not saying it definitely is the cause.

Oh we have a severely pathological conspiracy theorist/twitterista here. Such fun and entertaing to read her feverishly wild tales. Keep spinning, auntie, Pulitzer will be yours one day.

R24, Please read the linked article for some optimism.

Shanghai, a major shipping port now closed off and under quarantine.

Will Tibet regain its independence now that China is so weakened? What will happen to close allies North Korea and Iran? Any chances the leadership will fall due to the economic disaster?

R25 they’re treating it with an HIV drug, so does PreP prevent WuFlu?

Pandemics, another thing Kobe Bryant doesn't have to worry about.

R28, General consensus online is that Chinese doctors are using at least HIV drugs to treat patients as they have no other options. Same drugs were used in an attempt to cure Ebola patients. Don't know the results.

So far Chinese doctors have claimed 2 success stories using HIV drugs but I'm not sure of which ones. Then again it could be a coincidence.

This IS "The Year of the Rat," after all . . .

There was a patent for the "Wu Flu" filed in 2015 and granted in 2018.

This assignee of this patent was the government funded Pirbright Institute out of the UK. Major source of funding are from the World Health Organization and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

Funny how the WHO recently said that vaccine hesitancy was one of the leading threats to global health in 2019. Exactly how much funding has the Gates Foundation given to vaccine programs throughout the years?

Did you check out the YouTube simulations played by Bill Gates et al of what would happen in a real pandemic? The "games" occurred months ago. What did he know that the rest of us didn't learn? Should have been reading "Business Insider" to gain "psychic" knowledge.

At a delicious lunch with Christine Lagarde, my dear friend Deepika Padukone, Greta Thunberg, Ivanka Trump, Dr. Warner Greene, and Al Gore, at Glow in Davos at WEF, Prince MBS told us that Wu Flu is an attention diversion operation but he wouldn't disclose what the truly worrying hidden event is.

[quote] Please Chinese people, minimise your contact with your dragons - they are possible sources of the virus (along with bats and snakes).

Gulp!

Major port of Shanghai under quarantine.

R35 Beijing may be next...People shall still escape despite this. Wuhan mayor has admitted today that 5M escaped the city before the road blocks, closing of petrol stations, etc.

The airport in Shanghai appears to still be open.

[quote]Please ask the owners of Canada's bio-research lab why they seized the computers of a couple of their top Chinese scientists who were making multiple 2-week trips to Wuhan's bio-research lab. Also why they arranged for their forcible removal from the lab via guards.

Seizing computers in China is quite common. It's how they steal IP. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, which is why I know you never keep anything important in a hard drive if your traveling in China for business.

How could you escape a quarantine though? If you leave, you might not return for several weeks. What about your job, property, business? Is no one currently working in Wuhan?

So what R25? Are you still jerking off to people's reactions in this thread? Must be the only joy of life you can scrape by in your filthy, dark trailer.

Ugh - welcome to news in 2020. All rumors. All panic. All anger. This is why I’ve tuned out news.

This has been predicted for years. It doesn’t matter how it started and quarantine efforts are largely pointless. This is our future. If not now, at some point soon. And much worse. The % of people who died from it is minuscule. Not losing sleep. I got through AIDS plague - which had close to a 100% mortality rate. This is nothing.

R41 Aids isn't that easy to get and is entirely preventable if you take precautions. You can't get it from someone coughing or any casual contact. I was a hospice nurse and took care of a lot of aids patients. One patient coughed blood up and it got in my eyes. It didn't affect me at all. Pneumonic flu is far more dangerous especially if it is a new virus. A virus that you were never exposed to will tear up your lungs and cause you to drown in the fluid.

R39 They had escaped BEFORE the quarrantine: i.e. Road blocks, checkposts, and improvised road closures of piles of earth moved to block small side roads leaving town. There still are many accounts of people using bribery to get smuggled out. In countries like China, people with money have oppurtunities to still get out, it simply is more difficult, and more costly now.

There have been reports of vegetable market delivery trucks smuggling people, as well as other supply trucks.

R42, R43, Thank you for your informative posts.

I will continue to add info despite being verbally attacked so that those with common sense will know to prepare. Please read the following gleaned from elsewhere on the internet and stock up your emergency food pantry (which is a good idea for any minor or major situation) before there's a big rise in prices for certain goods.

Those saying to shut US borders, do you realize which country is the biggest food supplier to the US? I'll give you a hint.... China.

The US only has about a 2 week food supply on average without imports. Almost all fish, nuts, oils, and canned goods are imported from China. If you close the ports you disrupt the US food supply. If Chinese cant operate their ports.. . .

^I was more curious what people do when they get out. They will probably lose their jobs (If people are still working) and property and need money to start a new life or live in hotels for a few months or weeks. Where do the 5m that got out go?

R45, The lucky Wuhan escapees either went to live with relatives in the far less populated rural areas, as many normally do during Chinese New Year. They just aren't planning on returning.

Or they traveled to other countries in the world for their extended holiday break. Would the US grant extended visas for those who don't want to or can't return to China?

Basically anyone with money, and many normally save up all year for this yearly humongous human migration, have long since left Wuhan and other Chinese cities.

Wuhan is now a dead city. Homes of the dead are being burned. The stench of thousands of bodies will not soon dissipate. China has ghost cities available for the elite and those with a high "social credit" who somehow survive this economic disaster. Sick and dying nurses at Wuhan's hospitals said from Day-1 that the Communist Party elite who run the hospital's administration were the very first to disappear. So many had 2nd homes in the West.

Bump im not scared enough yet.

This entire thread is a disgrace, led by some QAnon nutso.

What is it with you conspiracy theory people?

All fish and oil come from China R44?? Dude, lay off the meth pipe - your paranoia is getting out of control.

All fish and oil come from China R44?? Dude, lay off the meth pipe - your paranoia is getting out of control.

R9 (and r10) is Fox Mulder.

Scully!

[quote]This entire thread is a disgrace, led by some QAnon nutso.

Shit. I thought I took a wrong turn and ended up on 4Chan and not DL. Looks like ELEOP has been replaced by something worse.

[quote]Others hypothesize that Caucasians from Europe have inherited survival genes due to surviving the Black Plague and Spanish Flu.

White privilege! White privilege!

This is their Black Plague.

I think if it's true that this originated with the wild animal trade the Chinese government will put a stop to the wild animal trade. You know they are not going to tolerate anything that messes with their economy. They won't wring their hands and wonder how to make it stop, they will just march the people who are involved out into public places and execute them.

Every single object shipped from China that you're used to buying is possibly contaminated.

Anyone who uses 'elite' as a noun should be eaten alive by rats.

Either post REPUTABLE links to these wild claims, OP or STFU.

It's not a fucking cookbook.

R13, I personally think our spending is ridiculous and we're going to hit the wall with interest payments...but what's happening now isn't much different from what the progressive wing endorses -- modern monetary theory.

[quote]Every single object shipped from China that you're used to buying is possibly contaminated.

This is just the height of irresponsible stupidity. Flu viruses (for one) can only survive on a surface for about 24 hours. Any viruses that would be present on anything shipped from China would have died long before they reached the US.

Meanwhile, it's not even that bad of a virus - hardly worse than the flu. No one here who isn't very old or immune-compromised should be worried about it.

^Thought someone here said this particular virus can survive up to 28 days on steel surfaces. Maybe someone can find/remember the source.

R61 Though I strongly agree with the first part of your comment, I don't think we ought to have a false sense of confidence we fully understand the virus; same has been said by several scientists.

There have been 19 seperate strains identified, however no leading virologist or epidemiologist has been able to determine which strains may be more lethal, or virulent. It is too early to say most needn't worry. Until two weeks from now, we really won't have the full picture of the scope. This view has been echoed by several leading public health figures, and scientists.

Some of you bitches are crazy. It’s not a conspiracy, they are eating exotic shit they shouldn’t be eating over there and it’s killing people off. It’s been happening since we evolved on this planet and it will continue to do it so spare me the X Files bullshit and try to be happy before they haul your moisturized carcass off in a biohazard dumpster. Have a nice day.

From everything that I've read it's one strain with very few mutations, meaning it didn't go through many animal hosts before hitting humans.

Maybe this will get the Chinese government to up its game on health, safety, and environmental issues. Everything has been subsumed to economic development. And now that's all fucked.

R65 For you:

What have genetic tests revealed about the virus?

Scientists in China have recorded the genetic sequences of around 19 strains of the virus and released them to experts working around the world.

This allows others to study them, develop tests and potentially look into treating the illness they cause.

Examinations have revealed the coronavirus did not change much – changing is known as mutating – much during the early stages of its spread.

However, the director-general of China's Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Gao Fu, yesterday said the virus was mutating and adapting as it spread through people.

This means efforts to study the virus and to potentially control it may be made extra difficult because the virus might look different every time scientists analyse it.

More study may be able to reveal whether the virus first infected a small number of people then change and spread from them, or whether there were various versions of the virus coming from animals which have developed separately.

How dangerous is the virus?

The virus has so far killed 82 people out of a total of at least 2,800 officially confirmed cases – a death rate of around three per cent. This is a higher death rate than the Spanish Flu outbreak which, in 1918, went on to kill around 50million people.

However, experts say the true number of patients is likely considerably higher and therefore the death rate considerably lower. Imperial College London researchers estimate that there were 4,000 (up to 9,700) cases in Wuhan city alone up to January 18 – officially there were only 444 there to date. If cases are in fact 100 times more common than the official figures, the virus may be far less dangerous than currently believed.

For you, r67, from the CDC...

2019-nCoV is a betacoronavirus, like MERS and SARs, all of which have their origins in bats. The sequences from U.S. patients are similar to the one that China initially posted, suggesting a likely single, recent emergence of this virus from an animal reservoir.

For you, r67, from the CDC...

2019-nCoV is a betacoronavirus, like MERS and SARs, all of which have their origins in bats. The sequences from U.S. patients are similar to the one that China initially posted, suggesting a likely single, recent emergence of this virus from an animal reservoir.

R69 I don't doubt the connection to bat corovavirus, but it has gone through a second-wave of mutations SINCE spreading person-to-person.

R69 The Latest research as of late 2018, has also confirmed MERS spread from a CAMEL coronavirus, not bats.

Not according to the CDC, r70.

"Every single object shipped from China that you're used to buying is possibly contaminated."

Hmm, I ordered a pearl necklace for my mom from China, and it's been stuck in someplace called Hebron, Kentucky for a week.

Interesting how none of the "updates" posted here have links attached. Total bullshit propaganda.

R71 you need to learn vocabulary. "Spread from" and "origins" are not the same. The virus originated in bats and then mutated and spread to camels and then mutated again and then spread to humans.

R72 I think people ought to highly consider information regarding the Wu Co V coming from Peking University, and The International Society For Infectious Diseases, as both are highly credible sources, independent, and not governmental agencies.

As I'm not an American, I do not consider the CDC a definitive authority on the topic. All governmental scientific bodies are the least reliable when new information is being disseminated every day regarding this virus. I always look to other sources with these concerns.

R74, I'm sourcing my info from the CDC. Anyone who wants can Google and read more.

You mean my flu shot won’t protect me?

R75 The origin of the MERS coronavirus is almost identical to one which exists in camels.

R76, let me guess...4chan or qanon.

R79, and it would. how do I put this simply...A bat gave it to a camel which in turn gave it to a human.

R80 No, none of those. All the sources and references in my posts do not include them.

If your CDC is doing such an outstanding job, whyever have they failed to provide testing kits to individual hospitals and research centres? Health authorities in the UK and Europe are doing much better, with faster confirmation.

R77 no, you aren't, or you would be posting links. CDC publishes online. You're just a bullshitter.

The American CDC, as well as the WHO are giving very little detailed information to the public. I believe they are intentionally downplaying the extent of this virus. The WHO should have declared this an International emergency, or pandemic already.

I also believe independent NGO researchers in China are on the front lines, and we should not be discounting what they are releasing to the public. (China's Center For Disease Control is my source for the information in my post @ R67)

Then you're fucking lazy, r83. All you need to do is Google the first sentence in any of my paragraphs and it will bring you to the CDC page that it came from. If you google CDC and mutations you'll get glaring headlines from yesterday about it. I'm on a mobile device and it's a pain in the ass to keep going back and forth with page refreshes inbetween.

Aw, r82, you need to do a lot better than test kits. And "none of those" suggests you're a nutter from somewhere else on the Internet.

R85 You may declare me a "nutter", as you're welcome to your opinion. Nothing I have psted has come from the dubious sources you allege me to be reading. I don't understand the American hubris concerning your CDC. It is clearly lacking in information regarding this outbreak. It is the only place blood samples can be confirmed in the States.

If you already had common coronavirus would it help you against this strain?

You guys act like it's the Bubonic Plague.

R85 Leading health authorities in the UK and Europe have made the necessary genetic tests available to hospitals and research centres at universities. No other country is shipping them to one government agency for all testing. You're another American who wrongly believes you, and your government is superior to the rest of the world. Clearly the Americans are not leading on the matter. You have failed to quarrantine for two weeks as well. You're still only screening passengers for "symptoms".

Oh my god, seriously, you're a nutter, r89.

But, but, but, but....TESTING!

R90 It's a known fact all samples of suspected American patients are being shipped to the CDC for genetic testing. You are not credulous in your denials. The long turn around time in the US leads many researchers outside your country to believe you quite possibly have a much higher number of cases.

There is no other confirmation available in the US currently. You need to research better sources.

I'm not espousing any conspiracy stories, or promulgating any false information.

[quote]I'm not espousing any conspiracy stories, or promulgating any false information.

But you sure are tedious.

And longwinded. Perhaps shut up for five minutes?

R91, it's not a "long" turnaround time and suspected cases are being held in isolation at hospitals. So, no, the test time and number of cases have nothing to do with each other. It's not like Europe is going door-to-door and forcing people to test. we're doing the same thing except our cases go to the CDC for testimg at the moment. And, if you think that there's a huge number of people with the virus being covered up here in the US then you really don't understand our media and their love of crisis. It would be incredibly difficult to hide an outbreak here in the US.

As I said, you're a nutter and I'm beginning to think you're ELEOP.

R92 Not when your American hubris IS responsible for your dissemination of false information. I happen to be a former science writer who holds a Mphil in Public Health from University of Cambridge.

You are denying facts, as regards to genetic sequencing and test confirmation in the US. You stop first, then I shall not need to correct what you're posting on a public forum.

The CDC is not what it once was since Trump became president.

Dear over educated r94:

R92 here. First time I've posted in this thread to the best of my recollection, but then again I'm American so I guess I'll just bow to your self-avowed British superiority.

The CDC blames "governmental regulation" for its failure to share or provide the necessary test kits to American hospitals and Universities. This is not acceptable.

And I'm the Queen of England, r94. See how the Internet works?

(Also, you've posted some bullshit.)

R95 You're quite right. It has had budget cuts in four incidents since the Trump administration.

The silver lining to all this: the stock market is declining, and this will hurt Trump's reelection chances. We should be very glad that this is happening. A̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶s̶a̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶s̶.̶

I would like the proud American posters show proof there is widespread ability for individual hospitals to confirm blood samples....

You hate Republicans that much that you would sacrifice human life to defeat them, R100.

Actually, r97, that regulation we have is thanks to Europe.

R103 You most clearly are a buffoon to offer up such a bombastic non sequitur! A test for genetic sequencing isn't in any way, shape, or form analogous to a drug such as Thalidomide. You're the "nutter" I'm afraid.

This thread is pretty fascinating if you block r104.

Nope, it's not the same. But because of thalidomide we make sure that it's done right.

Blocking R105 makes all the negative and fallacious pists disappear from the thread!

I pride myself on my fallacious pists!

I find it very suspect that two posters on this thread fond of denying the truth here, each have two different poster numbers when "trolldar" is engaged.

Whyever do posters need to dump their cookies, or log into this forum on another device in their attemps to discredit a poster, and otherwise dominate a thread? Because they are trolls, clear and simple.

R109, believe me when I say this...there's nothing on this thread or the whole of DL that's worth the effort of doing what you posted. I have zero fucks to give if one anonymous poster believes another anonymous poster.

People ought to get out of their own heads here, and consult multiple sources if they truly wish to keep apprised of the changing situation with this virus, rather than being nationalistic sheeple who will ONLY believe what the American CDC puts on their scant website.

Like the unsouced 4chan material? Or the spurious websites posted upthread?

R112 Why do you continue (repeatedly) mentioning 4chan? No spurious websites were ever posted by me on this thread. I have never read anything online from 4chan, nor do I even know what it is. I believe you have me confused with someone suggesting conspiracy theories. I simply object to any American thinking the CDC is infallible, or the only primary source to be believed the world over.

Geeze, I don't know, r113. Read the thread maybe?

R114 I just cannot respond to you any longer. This shall be the very last time.

When I read a mainstream article, say, in a highly reputable newspaper, or a magazine, I look to their pimary sources. I only believe secondary sources when someone from the scientific community, a doctor, scientist, or other public health official is quoted. Nowhere here have I posted anything sourced from 4chan, or spurious websites. You're completely off base.

You can choose to continue to believe this coronavirus is no more dangerous than flu... FINE, but stop attributing information to 4chan, when sources, NGOs, or researchers at universities are noted or quoted in my posts.

Not just R104, but OP too - block him and poof! half the thread disappears. All the unhinged posts.

Oh, im so hurt. R111 isn't going to regale me with his non attributed post anymore.

Trump has tweeted like 500 times since this came out. Yet he's only mentioned once. 6 days ago when he said China had it completely under control.

How come the Bioweapons Conspiracy Theorist never post a link to a credible media report verifying his claims?

Are you getting your info from InfoWars?

[quote]Please tell me that you don't believe what you just wrote.

Poo, please tell me that you're not going to infest this thread for weeks, constantly bumping it with the latest ridiculous conspiracy theories that are backed up by nothing at all and that nobody sane could possibly believe.

[quote]but stop attributing information to 4chan, when sources, NGOs, or researchers at universities are noted or quoted in my posts.

No, they really aren't. You have provided literally zero actual verifiable data to support any of your silly theories. You're simply randomly making up shit or are passing along the stupid shit you've read at some conspiracy site or another and you are expecting us to take you seriously.

We don't.

Wait, a person had sex with a bat that had sex with a camel?

OP has no sources. F&F

No, a person had sex with a camel that had sex with a bat, Rose.

^^^ So sing your camel to bed, already! Sheesh!

So does this mean the wealthy Chinese might actually occupy all the apartments they’ve bought in Manhattan??

I saw 11 people wearing face masks on the street yesterday on the Upper East Side. I counted. Although it’s not uncommon to see them, it’s taken on a new context.

I live in central CT, not a metro area and I saw several people wearing face masks in my local supermarket. That was creepy.

Again R121... I have not put forth any theories... Conspiracy or otherwise. You're thinking of the posters upthread. I have given no opinions whatsoever, other than this should have been declared a pandemic, as it meets the criteria. Earlier efforts to curb air travel would have been the result.

The fact that the CDC is the only testing facility is also FACT, not an opinion, or theory.

Yes, R128, you have. Let's take a look:

[quote]stop attributing information to 4chan, when sources, NGOs, or researchers at universities are noted or quoted in my posts.

I repeat: you haven't "noted or quoted" any "researchers at universities" in your posts.

[quote]rather than being nationalistic sheeple who will ONLY believe what the American CDC puts on their scant website.

Nobody here has said anything like this. It's a strawman argument that you made up. Speaking of making things up:

[quote]I find it very suspect that two posters on this thread fond of denying the truth here....

And as to your various conspiracy theories:

[quote]I believe they are intentionally downplaying the extent of this virus. The WHO should have declared this an International emergency, or pandemic already.

[quote][The CDC] is clearly lacking in information regarding this outbreak.

[quote]The CDC blames "governmental regulation" for its failure to share or provide the necessary test kits to American hospitals and Universities.

[quote]The long turn around time in the US leads many researchers outside your country to believe you quite possibly have a much higher number of cases.

[quote]You can choose to continue to believe this coronavirus is no more dangerous than flu... FINE

None of these is backed up by anything resembling logic, reason, or data.

R128, nah, you're a conspiracy theorist and a nutter. While it's a fact that the CDC is the only testing facility, it's also not unusual and that's the part you don't want to understand because it doesn't fit with your narrative.

Wuhan CoV sequencing of 38 genetic models, five major mutations. Again, no conspiracy theories. Just science. There's a distinct difference. All the comments I have made have already been made by others in public health, or scientists quoted in mainstream newspapers.

R129 The articles I had copied have the source for the quotes.... They are from The Guardian and The Mail.

Regarding logic, data, or reason, it's not a conspiracy theory to believe economic implications, as well as China's status as a world "Economic Superpower" may influence the WHO's decision NOT to label this outbreak properly. All the conditions have been met for an International emergency. You also have cherry-picked my remarks to have eliminated comments on an earlier decision may have curtailed air travel... an indispensable measure in an attempt at containment. One can google this concept and find a slew of people in the scientific community who disagree with the WHO's decision. BTW, the WHO does not enjoy a very good reputation in this regard.

The sheer numbers of infected have already surpassed SARS outbreak. The decision should have been called. Cases now confirmed in the UAE, as well as a suspected case in Sudan. Three more person-to-person transmissions now in Germany. All were employees at the autoparts firm where the lady from Shanghai was doing training. This, along with the following link are evidence this is mutating whilst spreading through infected patients.

For anyone interested in reading more in-depth scholarly journal articles, Wiley have made available, free of charge, fifty-four articles on Coronavirus, pertinent to Wuhan CoV. These are available until April, but may possibly be extended for free of charge status. All can be found on one page. To follow, I've linked one below.

OH NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! I want to see men in tights with their bulges protruding uncomfortably!!!!!!!! Just move it to another city!!!!!!!

[quote]MOSCOW (Reuters) - The World Athletics Indoor Championships scheduled to take place in Nanjing, China in March have been postponed until 2021 over fears related to the coronavirus outbreak in the country, the sport’s global governing body said on Wednesday.

[quote]The sheer numbers of infected have already surpassed SARS outbreak

Hmmm, no, not yet. And the death rate isn't even close.

R134 Sadly the Chinese shall have to do without Michael Flatley's Riverdancers too. I just read an article stating they cancelled abruptly, and high-tailed it out of Shanghai. They're fearful of being trapped. Gives new meaning/relevance to being "Shanghaied"!

British Airways have cancelled all flights to mainland China now. I suspect some American carriers may now follow suit.

R135 Check your figures mate. The SARS cases were just below current Wuhan CoV figures when WHO declared SARS an international emerg of global concern.

R129 Regarding CDC sequencing, you claim "this is common"... No, it isn't! Or else, we would not have all the sequencing data made available. (done by individual labs, hospitals, and researchers VERY quickly) Your CDC have only tested and confirmed 32 samples out of 116 suspected patients. Not very impressive.

Meanwhile the UK have tested 164 samples.

The WHO is a fucking joke and part of the Leftist UN pandering to China. The WHO calls itself a health organization but it plays politics just like the other UN entities. Case in point, the UN exclude Taiwan from becoming a member of the WHO due to China's longstanding objections. China considers democratic Taiwan as a Chinese province, hence without any right to participate in international organizations as a separate nation. The UN and most of the world recognized China but not Taiwan as independent country.

The WHO has not allowed Taiwan to participate in an emergency WHO meetings this week on containing the virus. This is even after Taiwan has confirmed 2 cases, one from a Chinese tourist and another from a Taiwanese businessman returning from a trip to China. So if the WHO's real goal and intent is to contain the spread of the virus, it would make a special allowance for Taiwan to participate in the efforts. But is hasn't because it plays politics and sides with communist dictatorship China over democratic Taiwan. Like a I say, The WHO is a fucking joke.

Cheers R139. You get it. Curious as to your opinion on the CDC as well. They provide very little information to the public through their website.

It's noteworthy to also point out that the WHO have already backtracked once, and have admitted they made a "mistake" by initially classifying the outbreak as low-moderate risk. They have changed their statement now, and declare it "very high risk"; yet they still fail to declare an international emergency.

In their wording, they almost discount what the Chinese have already proven about it spreading by "human transmission"... They prefer to use the phrasing, "there is no evidence", but it is "said to be capable of human to human transmission". The latest Japanese patient, and the four German patients clearly prove this is what's now happening outside China as well.

A Canadian spouse of a woman from Ontario province has also caught the virus since his wife's return. How many cases do they really believe are only attributable to animal-to-human? The numbers do not compute.

R131, do you understand what mutations are? I don't think you do.

A bat would have become infected by a organism, which turns into a virus. 1 mutation.

It then infects another bat. 2ndmutation.

A bat then infects a human. 3rd mutation.

A human then infects other humans. 4th mutation.

transmission made easier through things like mucus from sneezing. 5th mutation.

Yeah, this is why I think you're an idiot. This is the normal path of transmission from animal to human. Mutations are bad when pathogens mutate into something drug resistant, which takes a long while.

R142 You can think however you like. Meanwhile you're the one familiar with 4chan, Wikipedia, CDC, as your sources. I'm sticking with primary sources, and peer-reviewed journals. I perfectly well understand how the virus is mutating. I have complete confidence you just keep trying to argue with everything I post, yet it is all true. Toss off troll. Go get some Chinese take away for dinner, preferably from a restaurant which sources its ingredients fresh from the docks.

R140 I have mixed feelings about the CDC because as a healthcare provider (I'm a DNP) I was trained and taught to regard the CDC as one of the trusted sources for everything from STI prevention/ course of treatment to infectious diseases to vaccines. For this particular instance with the Coronavirus spread, the CDC response is to fall back on its "better to be conservative than to scare the shit out of people" mentality. Perhaps the CDC is banking on this being "a public health threat" with low level of "health risk" to Americans living in the US. An organization like the CDC is made up of a body of medical scientists, public health officials, and research scientists, they won't make any decrees without coming to a consensus. After the SARS outbreak the CDC supposedly reworked its response infrastructure to deal with possible outbreaks, epidemics, and pandemics in a more timely and effective manner.

If you read the official CDC statements on the Coronavirus, it refers to it as "outbreak" as opposed to epidemic; both share same definition but there's a difference. The main difference between the two terms is that outbreak is usually used to describe epidemic limited to certain geographical areas, whereas epidemic generally refers to sudden uptick in number of cases normally to be expected in a region at given time. So my guess is that the CDC considers the Coronavirus to be something like a propagated outbreak or mixed epidemic, with the expectation that they usually wane because number of susceptible persons dips below a certain level necessary to sustain transmission, and/ or because curative or preventative interventions are effective.

My guess is that behind the scenes the CDC does have more stringent contingency plans should the outbreak/ epidemic graduates to pandemic proportions. However, let's not forget that the CDC Response to the recent Ebola outbreak circa 2014-2016 was extremely slow, and that was after they supposedly improved its strategy for outbreak/ epidemic response. That said if I had to choose I'd be more confident with CDC than the fucking WHO, the latter is truly shameful and a sham in playing politics during times of life and death. During the SARS epidemic years ago, then WHO's banning of Taiwan from participation cost the island nation over 300 lives lost to SARS.

R143, please find any post of mine where I have quoted 4chan or something other than the CDC...go ahead. I'll wait.

And, instead of posting links to sources, you might actually want to read them because most of the time they don't say what you quote in your post.

Ah, and r143, you say that I can think however I like. Yes, thank you, I think with facts.

R144 Thanks for your reply. I think they ought to raise the bar for their audience on their website. It's one thing to "speak in laymen's terms" for the public, but I find the details scant. I still think it unwise to require all samples to be shipped to Atlanta. Do you believe this shall change anytime soon?

The irony here is this strikes me as classic "central planning" as one would expect to see in a communist country like China, not the US.

R142 I provided that link @ R13/R132 for you specifically, after you had argued upthread in R65 that you believed it wasn't rapidly mutating. (few mutations)

Go back again and look at how they cluster. Pages scroll slowly with the text, so be patient, and go slowly. The animated feature is worth enabling as well.

I believe CDC and NIH have pages for health professionals as well as lay people.

Yes, R147. I suppose they feel too much detailed information for the general public isn't in order, or it shall otherwise provoke more consternation and panic.

R146, yes and that is few mutations. A virus has to mutate to get into the population to start and it looks like it's only had 1 mutation since it jumped into humans and that's the mutation that allows it to spread from human to humans. In fact, the 5 cases confirmed here in the US appear not to have the last mutation that they have in China.

The more species involved the more mutations.

I’d be keeping a diary, hoping to sell it to Hollywood if I survived.

R146 the CDC operates a pathogen lab that's apparently the stuff of legends. It attracts specialists from around the world. But there are a total of 13 labs in the US capable of handling, storing, studying the most dangerous infectious agents. Labs assigned BSL-4 designation for highest level of security. For instance, BSL-3 agent can be something like TB bacteria, but BSL-4 agent is something like the Ebola virus. It's not just the 2 CDC laboratories in Atlanta, but there are also labs operated by different governing entities (that's not the CDC) including 3 in Texas, 3 in Maryland, 1 each in Kansas/ Boston/ Montana/ Virginia. I believe the one in Galveston, Texas along with the ones in other states are focused on biodefense, biomedicine, and work in conjunction with Homeland Security and/ or Department of Defense. I'm sure there is some overlap between all of those labs as well, and they share information with each other when deemed necessary. Since I'm one who's always wondering about political intrigue behind what we know, I might venture to guess that Homeland Security and Department of Defense have or are trying to get their hands on the Coronavirus strains to study in their respective labs. The rumor of the virus being a byproduct of China's biowarfare program gone amok would be too good not to investigate.

R151, the genome is online for any lab to study.

But why have they shutdown the internet in China?

Latest NYT analysis

FUCK CHINA! Fuck it right in its pale, flat, toxic, evil ass

It's about time the rest of the planet reacts and rejects the " Let's make China the worlds factory/farm" globalization bullshit.

[quote]While it's a fact that the CDC is the only testing facility, it's also not unusual and that's the part you don't want to understand because it doesn't fit with your narrative.

That's exactly right. During the early days of any such outbreak like this, particularly one that's outside the country, you always start with the CDC. Various regional institutions are already working on providing access to local testing. In my part of the country, the University of Washington is working overtime on this.

[quote]The articles I had copied have the source for the quotes.... They are from The Guardian and The Mail.

You didn't copy any articles and nothing you have provided backs up any of your conspiracy theories noted in r129.

[quote]it's not a conspiracy theory to believe economic implications, as well as China's status as a world "Economic Superpower" may influence the WHO's decision NOT to label this outbreak properly.

Yes, actually, it is, by the strict definition of the phrase. You have no data to back up this unsubstantiated allegation.

[quote]All the conditions have been met for an International emergency.

Declaring a worldwide pandemic? Absolutely not, which is why you don't support this allegation any more than you do any of the rest of your nonsense.

[quote]You also have cherry-picked my remarks

No, actually I didn't. There is no context where your remarks are anything but the ridiculous and unsupported conspiracy theories that they are. To pretend otherwise is foolish.

[quote]I'm sticking with primary sources, and peer-reviewed journals.

No, you really aren't, not for the ridiculous nonsense you've been posting.

We can add another one to the list:

[quote]The irony here is this strikes me as classic "central planning" as one would expect to see in a communist country like China, not the US.

Every country involved has a central coordinating authority overseeing the response to the virus. This is just dumb.

Chinese do have internet access. My Chinese colleagues are in constant contact with their friends and family over the internet and telephone.

The amount of ignorance in this thread is staggering.

Excessive alcohol is staggering.

Have they released the stats regarding the dead? median age? male, female, kids etc?

This does not meet the criteria of pandemic, you simply can't have public health authorities declaring emergencies without basis. The definition and criteria of pandemic under principles of epidemiology is an epidemic spread over several countries or continents and affecting a large number of people. Under that definition, HIV/ AIDS was a pandemic. This has not reached that level yet, and hopefully it will never happen. According to facts that we know, the Coronavirus has a fatality rate of 2-4% IF we are to trust the Chinese government figures (I know, big if). Good news is that the infected individuals outside of China who are being treated in their native countries have not died from the virus. So perhaps China is telling the truth on this one. Compared to other recent viral outbreaks it's considered lower risk, the SARS outbreak in 2002-2003 and MERS outbreak in 2012 had 9,5% and 34.5% respectively. Those who are infected with Coronavirus also suffer less serious symptoms when compared to SARS virus. Both viruses are thought to have originated from mammals, with the SARS virus from civet meat which is popular in parts of China. In order to prevent future outbreaks once this current one is contained, it's important for scientists to pinpoint the exact animal the passed the virus onto humans.

^^^Forgot to add that we can only go by known facts and not make public health policies based upon fear.

R162 I'm skimming through the latest study from the Lancet, a total of 99 patients in the study from 1/1/20- 1/20/20. The demographics are as follows: average age 55.5 years, 67 men/ 32 women, 50% of these patients also had chronic diseases, 75% of the total number of patients went on to develop bilateral pneumonia. Early conclusion to be drawn is that older males with comorbidities are more likely to be affected. Comorbidities are overwhelmingly cardiovascular/ digestive/ endocrine illnesses. The virus can lead to serious conditions such as pneumonia, acute respiratory distress syndrome, and multiple organ failure can lead to death in susceptible individuals. In this small study, 11% of the patients died.

So I guess if you are relatively healthy without any serious health conditions, you have a good chance of fighting it with just conventional treatment. Those in the study received pretty conventional therapy, from oxygen (supplemental to full intubation), antivirals/ antibiotics/ antifungals, immunoglobulin therapy. I see that 3% had to be put on ECMO which is a heart-lung bypass machine, so that's pretty serious and I'm thinking those who were on it didn't live.

#Switzerland: #WHO express 'concern' over rapid acceleration of #coronavirus - #VIDEO -

- “serious #epidemic”

- "The Whole worlds needs to be on alert, the whole world needs to get ready"

- “most rapid characterisation of a novel pathogen in history,”

R73, Hebron, KY is the Amazon shipping hub in these parts, from what I understand. It's also the "Cincinnati" international airport.

R94 - you woke the bear. It’s an open forum but never suggest America may be doing something wrong if you are not yourself American. I was actually surprised you had a number of replies before one insulted your country directly.

It's not quite how I imagined the end of the world..........

WHO finally declare the emergency they ought to have identified two weeks (or more) ago.

I can't help but say, I told you so... I also can't help hearing Carole King's "It's Too Late" playing in the back of my mind.

R168 This being a public forum aside, I not only live in America (near two cases, as well as near two families who shall be returning in short order from Wuhan), but also have been a public health scholar, and science writer. I can criticise whomever I like! I have offered up PLENTY of criticism of the WHO, as well as the official numbers reported by the CCP. It's not as if I am singling out only Americans in my many posts.

I'm sure a number of posters here on this thread shall accuse more "conspiracy theories" poisoning my mind, but I trust the numbers of infected as much as I trust the GDP figures disclosed by the CCP. Furthermore, anyone blindly trusting government agencies, no matter their nationality, are still sheeple in my book.

Bye D@vida @r171.

Bye Fu Lee Sha

I would really like to know what the situation in China is like and how this will affect our global economy. You hear whole cities and counties with millions of people are quarantined, but you do not hear about consequences. Are people still going to work or are they staying at home? Are factories, harbours, truck drivers etc. still open and working? Where are the estimates how this will affect our global economy? If one third of the country is no longer working, when will other countries run out of food, meds, supplies etc. Will there be a global financial crisis or recession depending on how long China and other countries are in lock down?

This is massive and you dont hear anything about the impact of this virus.

R174 There are a few articles I've already read, specifically addressing Thailand, and Australia's economies. SARS definitely negatively affected China's GDP. A dip of 30% is not an out of line prediction.

It really depends how long this shall last. If it does die down soon after a peak within the next two weeks, it may not affect everyone as badly, other than airlines, and the travel sector in general. If the situation should carry on for a year, or eighteen mos. then it would affect the global economy much more severely and more broadly.

What I do know is that many are continuing to work from home, where possible, and Shanghai and Beijing still have people going to work.

Futures down. More than likely a sharp decline in the price of crude, and petrol due to low demand. Asians stocks probably won't fare well either.

Actually, R174, Paul Krugman just wrote about that this morning in his column in the NY Times.

R137

The death toll has now exceeded SARS.

It took less than a month compared to the six months of deadly infections by SARS.

Anyone who thinks that the economic consequences will be minimal is delusional.

Numerous United States-based and international companies have already indicated that the impact of this pandemic will have serious negative bottom line effects.

China is still shut down. Air quality test, that are a good proxy for economic activity, are 50 to 80% below the norm. Highway and rail travel is down up to 90% in most cities. Beijing is a ghost town.

How long do you think that that situation can last without serious worldwide disruptions?

When will the stock market crash?

U.S. stock market futures are down after Apple yesterday warned it would not meet its quarterly revenue forecast due to the coronavirus outbreak.

German investor confidence has sharply deteriorated amid intensifying fears that China’s coronavirus outbreak will significantly hamper world trade.

India’s poultry industry is said to have lost as much as $182 million in three weeks after speculation on social media claimed the new coronavirus was spread by chickens.

I think a major crash by March.

good. I hope it crashes....

F&F r183

The unemployment rate is going to skyrocket inside the United States.

Far too many worldwide people depend on widgets and gadgets produced in China to complete assembly of their products.

The majority of American workers require partially assembled or fully assembled widgets, and the lack of availability will result in idled plants. You can’t build a car, or phone, or tv, with 99.5% of the necessary parts.

Most of the medicines sold as generic drugs have precursors originating from Wuhan China.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that this is a #blackswan is fooling themselves.

R184 so short the market. Which stocks do we buy?

R185

Unless you have some specific knowledge of a specific industry that will result in negative upstream quarterly results, and can act on that in a short time frame, attempts at shorting this shit storm amount to RusSINO Roulette.

Every central bank is throwing cash like a drunk teen who hit #1 on the pop charts. Why do you think that Apple and Tesla (and every other complex supply chain company in the market) are pushing new highs?

HOPIUM!

The gaps (where the close and open price are so far apart they look like a gap) are happening daily, every time a market opens or closes.

Large institutional players are moving money every few hours.

If you don’t think that people who study supply chain management and the ability to mitigate disruption are shitting bricks right now...you probably have much more interesting friends than I do.

Cheap and easy money is flowing -cross border and domestically -into these “blue ball chip” companies.

Nothing less then Armageddon will disrupt that pattern.

Look at the stock market in Venezuela. It is the best performing market on the planet.

The staggering quantities of “fiscal stimulus“ will drive markets higher and higher, but will have zero impact on the problems they actually face.

Eventually hope and reality will collide, and eventually, hope and reality will collide, and stocks of companies that actually add value will survive.

For a small investor, gold, silver, and lead are probably the best investments. Firearms will gain value.

I've been waiting for a shipment from China and it's been delayed, now I almost don't want it because I feel like it will be contaminated.

What is #blackswan? At work so don't want to google it

[quote]Do you know that there's talk that the Chinese elite have admitted that there was an accident in their #1 lab for bio-weapons research? Israeli intelligence has verified it in the MSM.

Oh hell no, Captain Trips here we go....

R188

It’s a term for the manifestation of “unknown unknowns”.

Massive earthquake in SoCal that kills 10M people, or hypersonic missiles from NKorea, or biowarfare, or incompetence.

These supply chain disruptions qualify as a black swan.

The term means that just because you have never seen a black swan doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.

Strangely enough, the author coined the term before Japanese researchers discovered a real live black swan.

NNTaleb

Now Italy.

Next stop, USA!

If oil continues to stay below $30bbl, fracking companies will be bankrupt by June.

Credit lines are frozen. CDS have exploded. Short term treasury yields have dipped below 50 basis points.

Apple is fucked. No new products in September.

The outlook for the foreseeable future appears quite bleak, more specifically the next two years. There are too many derivatives below the surface, so the average investor is truly only seeing the tip of the iceberg really. There is too much corporate debt, easy money given to certain companies and sectors , and they shall perish amidst the turmoil. Oil and gas, shale, airlines, hotels, restaurants, cinemas, much retail beyond the basics, obviously all suffer.

America should take a page from the playbooks of Italy, Australia, China, and now Scotland,, wherein the individual citizen receives direct payments from government to help enable them to cope financially. Either under quarantine, or simply prepping and self-isolating, or social distancing, this scheme shall certainly help more than giving payroll tax cuts to large corporations as the Orange Stain aims for. Both Scotland (RBS) as well as Italy (a few banks) have declared three month moratorium on mortgage payments. Why Americans only favour corporate welfare, I shall never quite get it.

“The regulation after 2008 eliminated the risks of another 2008, Uncle Billys. You're really winding yourselves up with this one. This is a bear (stock) market, not a liquidity or capitalization crisis.”

The federal reserve is injecting $1.5 trillion in liquidity into the system today and tomorrow. TRILLION!

This is definitely a liquidity crisis, because banks do not trust counterparty banks. They believe that one (or more) of the Global Systemically Important Financial Institutions (G-SIFIs) is about to default.

Deutschebank is my pick.

Possible Interbank failures. R194 Yes DB doesn't look very good, does it?

Escape from the cities. Suburban and rural sprawl. Increase in survivalist lifestyle.

Why did some irresponsible troll bump this thread full of unfounded speculation and fear mongering? R195? R196? I have you both blocked already.

R197 you’re obviously insane and we wanted to terrorize you.

there is opportunity here. why is everything we own made overseas?

This is a prescient thread. I wish I’d read it back in January.

I was not paying too much attention to this either but I knew we were done for in early March when there were vague suggestions of mandatory quarantines in the US.

These disruptions are worse now.

More shitposting from R202, a despairing blog that links to a conspiracy website. Give it up, trolls.

R203

Keep sucking Trump’s cock.