I hate Whitney's I Will Always Love You

I always thought I Have Nothing was the better song.

I've hated everything I've ever head by her. I never understood her appeal. I'm sure she's talented but I just couldn't take her in any amount. Same thing with Streisand and Celine Dion.

Blame Dolly Parton.

Thank you for bringing this important issue to our attention almost 30 years later, OP.

Don't hate the song, just her version of it.

Dolly's version is genius.

Whitney's version is vocally impressive, but it's so unfeeling. it sounds like the "you" she's singing to is herself.

SHIT song for mediocre people!

Dolly's version is great, and heartfelt. Whitney's is all showy vocal gymnastics and histrionics.

Back in the 90s there was a guy in England whose upstairs neighbors kept playing the song over and over on repeat. Eventually, he went upstairs, burst into their flat, and threw their stereo out the window. Instead of being hailed as a hero, he was arrested.

The perpetrators of the sonic assault, against which he was defending himself, were never punished.

I think this is one of the greatest songs of all time and I am not even a fan. You are an idiot, OP.

One of the best songs I’ve ever heard and I prefer her version to Dolly’s by like a billion percent. Her delivery of this song was just masterful..the voice, the acapella, the smooth clean tone, the emotions, the portrayal of lingering feelings and heartbreak..ugh. Don’t worry Op, there are people like you that do not recognize good art..few but still present.

That a Capella intro is stunning. That was her idea and her voice sounds so much better without all the instruments. The song is great up until the last minute or so.

Yeah right Op

I will always love crack!

I loathe her stuff. She NEVER met a song she couldn't oversing. Too bad, because she really did have talent.

OP I agree with you. It’s so overwrought it loses authentic feeling. I prefer Dolly’s quieter version which to me, has a great sense of longing and melancholy that Whitney’s lacks (except in the intro).

R7 sums up how I always felt about it. There's no genuine soul or emotion in the performance, it's just a display of power. And if you were within earshot of a radio you were bound to get sick of hearing it blasted every hour, much like "My Heart Will Go On" five years later.

You think that’s bad, you should hear Whitney’s cover of Jolene.

It depends on my mood, but I typically prefer Dolly's version. Whitney's version is more nostalgic (at least for me) but Dolly's version sounds much better.

Whitney isn't half the singer that Streisand is. Sure, she's had the pipes, but she didn't have Streisand's artistry or musical intelligence.

Beyan Adams Everything I Do I Do It for You is a billion times worse than Whitney's corporate soul-less shit songs. Her melisma on I Will Always Love You is terrible and extremely annoying. Sadly the same can be said for most of her songs. Her songs are as useful and nutrient rich as white bread.

R21 Bryan.

It's a perfect song. Her vocal delivery influenced every single female power ballad that came after. One of the best examples of how to be epic without oversinging.

It's her best ballad and Whitney's had many good ones.

Agree with OP. Houston is yet another singer who is more concerned with "bringing down the house" with every song than just singing it, confusing volume and vocal effects with artistry.

But there are audiences who just eat this up.

Personally, I prefer Linda Ronstadt's version from her superb Prisoner In Disguise album.

[quote] Agree with OP. Houston is yet another singer who is more concerned with "bringing down the house" with every song than just singing it, confusing volume and vocal effects with artistry.

You're confusing Whiney with her imitators. The song expertly builds to a climax. She demonstrates great control of her voice even as it changes octaves and holds it long enough so it's not jarring in the slightest. Compare that to Mariah or Ariana Grande who sound wobbly in comparison.

What am I; chopped cold chicken liver?

Showy show off bitch. . And you see where it got her.

She sang the best National Anthem ever, IMO.

I hated Whitney Houston’s version, too. I mostly agree with OP, but the song itself is wonderful. Dolly Parton’s version is masterful. Dolly wrote the song and has the rights to it. She’s a very savvy business woman and she made a ton of money from it.

Mariah is not really a Whitney imitator. She has this annoying "breathy singing" mannerism that she overuses.

R10 and r11 are correct

R32 LOL. Whitney ass-licker.

Mariah didn't over sing at first. It was during the Butterfly where he voice deteriorated and ever since then, she doesn't stop whisper singing AND over singing.

Whitney didn’t oversing she just had a very powerful clear voice. You wanna hear over singing listen to Ariana Grande or Patti Labelle or Beyoncé..all 3 have excellent voices but often oversing. Whitney was very measured and also very focused on delivering the message and emotion of a song.

R35 Couldn't agree more. Whitney was the prime example of how using a big voice should be done. Mariah was good in the beginning but there is a reason she switched to mostly R&B.

Christina Aguilera and Jennifer Hudson also oversing. We don't have anyone like Whitney today.

R36, what's bizarre about Mariah is how quickly her voice deteriorated--6 years. I don't think even Marianne Faithful's voice deteriorate that quickly. When I first heard the song "Honey", I thought it was a joke. She didn't seem to hold on a note, there was SO much warbling.

[quote]Her vocal delivery influenced every single female power ballad that came after.

Unfortunately, you're right about that.

Whitney's caterwauling and mindless use of melisma influenced a whole group of female singers.

But there's a certain public that loves that crap.

[quote]Whitney didn’t oversing she just had a very powerful clear voice. You wanna hear over singing listen to Ariana Grande or Patti Labelle or Beyoncé..all 3 have excellent voices but often oversing. Whitney was very measured and also very focused on delivering the message and emotion of a song.

You've got to be kidding!! Once the Bodyguard soundtrack came out, Whitney got into the habit of stopping mid-song for dramatic effect while she hammed it up onstage. She would try to do all kinds of vocal acrobatics for no reason. It was the epitome of over-singing. A lot of times, she did this to mask the fact that she couldn't really hit the big notes live anymore, so she distracted the audience with cheap gimmicks.

I have nothing is the better song.

The version of Jesus Loves me on the sunsets knows also amazing

Fabulous song/singing. She was at her peak as was Keven Costner. I loved it.

I've always hated it too, OP.

Her rendition of this song is a good example of how something that's technically proficient can still be awful to listen to.

This song is a thousand times better than her dismal "Greatest Love of All." To this day, I can't get past the first verse without wanting to stab my ear drums.

Here you go, OP. You'll like this.

I remember vividly that almost every fucking household played that song repeatedly non stop for months. The song was too popular and has been covered by trillions of singers all over the world. A friend of mine once told me if you want to show off your vocal gymnastics, sing a Whitney song

Run To You is an absolutely gorgeous song

R40 Whitney did lose her voice years later and it was painful to watch. But she was at her peak during The Bodyguard. She also looked healthiest at that time too.

Did anyone see that Drunk History featuring Dolly Parton? Man - what an amazing person she is. She got her start doing a show with Porter Wagner. Eventually, as an artist, she wanted to go her own way and see how she'd do. He was pissed that she was leaving and was a real ass to her. She made good money with "I Will Always Love You" and when Porter fell on hard times she turned over the rights to that song to him. Later when he was having more problems - she bought it back - and gave it to him again! She never lost sight of the fact that he discovered her and gave her her start and she was just the kind of person that kept that in perspective. As we all know, many (most?) people are all "Fuck them" to those that helped them make it.

I was just really impressed with her loyalty and kindness and now know why she is such a beloved performer.

Nails on a chalkboard to me.

I saw something the other day that suggested Whitney Houston was the reason singers started going ayayayaya and being bouncy with their vocals. After she killed the national anthem singers wanted to copy her.

There will never be another voice like Whitney Houston. Never. She was the greatest....tens of millions of people around the world feel the same way about Whitney. She had the most beautiful voice of them all - that clarity, sensitivity, resonance and power. Her gift was greater than her spirit. With a voice as big as the sea. She sounded better live and performed much more soulfully than her recorded hits. I Will Always Love You is a vocal master performance. Google it. Research why that is so. It's not my favorite song of hers, or her favorite song either. But she did it on the first take, in one take. Five minutes after learning that there was a third verse.....Whitney knew her gift and knew how to sing. She produced herself, for good and bad. Her heart was on the line with her confidence. She had a beautiful ability to sing and perform. She shared that talent and beauty with the world.

Puh lease. She had three or four years of good singing then by the early 90s she destroyed it. All of her songs were cliched musical crap. Just like how MJ's music from the 80s was also crap.

OP shows us how to do it! Succinct and effective trolling. Look at all the responses! I salute you, OP!

It's called "extraness." Certain people of a certain race simply can't help themselves.

Whitney sang beautifully for over 15 years. Her voice darkened and became more resonant and soulful with oversinging and other abuse, but she did not have only a few years of being able to sing. That's a myth that her detractors enjoy putting out there. They can't even explain how her voice changed from 1983 to 1989 to 1992 to 1996, 2000 and beyond. Whitney's had an embarrassment of talent to lose. It took her a very long time to destroy it.

The VOICE.

R57 Nope. Three years top. Whitney ass-licker. Take some sleeping pills and take a bath.

Whitney in 1999, with all the range and resonance she had 14 years earlier. Her voice had that permanent husky sound by this time, but she learned her way around the broken notes and nodes. Her vocal production was still a thrill. My Love is Your Love was third peak Whitney. Her voice aged fast from drugs and oversinging, but her ability was always profound. Whitney remains the greatest singer to this day, 8 years after her death and 25 years past her prime.

Whitney and Donna Summers were both mezzo-sopranos with similar ranges but Summers songs never came across as annoying screaming like Whitney. I can listen to Summers classics and never get sick of them. Whitney causes eye rolling and supreme annoyance.

Gorgeous live singing from Houston in 1997. In the morning, sitting down. Some y'all don't know.

You have to really question the mental state of any loser who chooses to deify a drug addicted low life like Whitney who sang nothing but horrible songs chosen by a disgusting old white dude (Clive Davis). Whitney lovers are even more sick and pathetic than Janbots or Vadge lovers.

Not on their best day was Donna Summer or Streisand's voice ever this beautiful and gifted.

Lots of Mezzo-Sopranos have similar ranges R59. That's why they are classified as mezzo-soprano's moron. It has to do with both the vocal fach and the tessitura of the voice. You know nothing about it, so don't spew terms you don't understand. Aretha is also a mezzo-soprano. Does she sound like Donna Summer to you?

No popular singer possessed the empirical perfection of Whitney Houston's voice. ONE VOICE.

R64 Big words, fucktard. You are clearly psychotic and off your meds. Go to bed, kill yourself, whatever.

The Garbage is @R65, R63, R61, R59, R54 etc.

All the same ugly sickness from the same ignorant poster. Who knows nothing about singing or vocal production. Get some rest, knock off the posing. You can get back to hating Meghan Markle tomorrow weirdo. I pray that Jesus visits peace upon your troubled mind tonight.

When the song came out, I hated it because I was a kid and I liked fun upbeat music, not depressing music. It wasn’t until after she died I appreciated it.

She looks like a movie. So beautiful, mesmerizing. At her best - Whitney was a stunning singer.

On SNL. She can't quite make it, her voice cracks but it's still rich, operatic and very beautiful. Soulful warm and artful singing. Whitney's legit sick here. Not the crack flu sick.

No one sings like this. Her voice was from another planet but her heart was there for all to see. Whitney was magnificent. Opulently beautiful and talented. She's the gold standard to this day - no matter how she ended up.

I never liked the song myself but the people trashing Whitney here are ignorant non musicians and/ or racist.

One of her more underrated songs.

So have. It' nice to know there are more kindred spirits out there.

Hi Dionne at r53 and r70!

Welcome to Datalounge.

[quote] I never liked the song myself but the people trashing Whitney here are ignorant non musicians and/ or racist.

Ah, yes. When someone doesn’t appreciate the song stylings of a person who happens to be black it MUST be racism. What else could it possibly be?!

So all of those black people who despise Frank Sinatra? Well that’s got to be racism, too, right?

This whole bullshit of caterwauling racism at every turn has to stop.

This thread has reminded me of what a phenomenal talent Whitney was. So beautiful too.

Loathe Houston. All the power and compelling emotion of a Theremin.

Theremin? Is that a type of flu medication R77?

Never mind. I got it now. What the hell?

"She got her start doing a show with Porter Wagner"

Who can forget this collaboration of Porter Waggoner and Dolly Parton?

R50, I’m sure since you know all that other stuff that you know she wrote the song with Porter in mind as she was leaving the show.

[quote] This whole bullshit of caterwauling racism at every turn has to stop.

I’m the first to decry the overused “racist!” Label and am very anti-SJW anti-woke. In fact many on here have caked me a “deplorable” for merely questioning someone the current Left talking points and have accused me of lying about being a lifelong Democrat

Nevertheless, my comment Abkut racism on this thread is not it’s because Whitney is black, it’s from Very specific comments people have made on this thread about her singing style which were not so thinly veiled attacks on traditionally black styles of singing.

Even if one doesn’t like gospel-style runs or riffing, anyone calling Whitney’s voice the things people have on here are fueled by some type of hatred and/or sheer stupidity.

[quote] So all of those black people who despise Frank Sinatra? Well that’s got to be racism, too, right?

Try anti-Semitism.

Yes I did R81. Thank you, I meant to mention that. Amazing woman.

"I Learned from the Best" and "It's Not Right (But It's Okay)." Those songs take me back to k-holes and dance floor blow jobs. Thank you, Whitney. RIP

What’s a k-hole?

Special K cereal stuffed in your ass R86. Do I have to explain everything?

Falling into a "k hole" is slang for how it feels when you take a high enough dose of ketamine that your awareness of the world around you and your control over your own body become so profoundly impaired that you're temporarily unable to interact with others—or the world around you.

You can't write the book on what went wrong with Western Civilization without at least a passing mention of this:

Forgot the quotes on that...

Whitney for Valu Plus cola.

R40 nothing wrong with “over singing” on tour the audience is there for a different experience than just the record version of a song. It was also her expressing her church gospel singing roots. It’s very boring for an artist for them to do a song the same way every night of every tour why do you think people like Gaga, Madonna and Kylie reinvent their songs on tour? For a singer of Whitney’s caliber, that means taking you to church with her full vocal ability. The thing about Whitney is that she never “pushed” herself on stage beyond her range or ability..it never looked or felt forced. With artists like Beyoncé, Mariah, Xtina, you can see them “pushing” it. Xtina singing “fighter” is an example of oversinging.

Hilarious.

[quote]it’s from Very specific comments people have made on this thread about her singing style which were not so thinly veiled attacks on traditionally black styles of singing.

So no "traditionally black styles of singing" can be criticized?

Am I allowed to criticize traditionally white-bread styles of singing?

I actually like the fact that there are people with much different taste that I am who can't adequately explain why they don't like something. It makes me treasure what I like even more knowing that others may not understand it in the way I do.

R94 What the commentor is saying is that it’s a thinly veiled criticism of something that’s cherished and meaningful to an entire culture of people. Of course if you want to criticize that, even openly, you can go right ahead and do that can’t you? Have a nice day!

Even on the days Whitney's voice wasn't quite there, she more than made up for it with her presence. She could bring drama to the stage like they were twin sisters. She was fantastic to watch, live.

I hope you die of AIDS OP.

Whitney Drama Houston making a South African audience eat out of her hands. Fabulous talent!

That's great R98. You say the most vile and reprehensible thing because someone criticized a singer you like? You should hang your head in shame.

Please leave DL.

Actually, Houston's version of I Will Always Love You is stunning.

The problem is it's been played to death

Look all the bitter faggots posting videos Mad TV mocking her. I wasn’t around so I guess I’ll never know what she did to warrant such contempt and hatred when white junkie x was a precious little angel.

r100 Lol, look at the people posting vile and reprehensible things because they can’t the stand the idea of Whitney getting praise. Petty, better bitches don’t deserve the breath in their lungs. Fuck off

I remember the first time I heard her acapella intro on the radio and the build-up of the song to the climax. People may not know it now because the song is truly overplayed to death, but we had never heard anything like it in pop music. Stunning record and even Dolly thanks her at every concert to this day. And as mentioned before, Whitney didn't particularly like the song and had to be pressured to sing it by Kevin Costner.

If you say you like Dolly's version better and you're white, you will be accused of being a racist.

R104 Not racist, just basic.

I think there's room in the universe for both versions. They're both fantastic even though, yes, the tune has been played to death.

Dolly gets most of the money from it either way.

[quote] I hope you die of AIDS OP.

Been there, done that.

This is the best article I read about Houston's use of mellisma and how it's different from more modern singers. It's perhaps one of the reasons why Houston's music has so much international appeal as a lot of global music is microtonal.

[quote] In order to achieve Houston's vocal acrobatics it takes a combination of arduous training and natural talent.

[quote] "You can't do it without proper breath control, and that's the one thing that Whitney Houston had bags of," says professional opera singer Sarah-Jane Dale. "Let's face it, singers like that do not come along every week."

[quote] Houston also selected vowel sounds that would conserve air so she could hold the mammoth notes. For example, singing "luv" instead of "love", according to Dale.

[quote] And then there's the smooth, effortless sound of Houston's melisma - the result of using her body to control her voice "It's not just from your neck up. Singing is your whole body, and if you're not connected to that breath and where it comes from, down in your diaphragm area, you're not going to manage it," Dale says.

They claim to like Dolly’s version, but didn’t buy it or request it on the radio. And they don’t stream it as much. Dolly says when Elvis refused to record it after she wouldn’t give up the rights, she feared the song was headed for oblivion and that it was another which would never be appreciated as she’d hoped. Now every pretentious hipster that wants to sound cool at parties says “I actually prefer Dolly Parton’s version” loud enough so the whole room can hear. Yeah, sure Jan.

[quote]Special K cereal stuffed in your ass [R86]. Do I have to explain everything?

Well excuse the fuck out of me for not being up on all the druggie lingo.

Seems to be that’s a good thing.

Dick.

I have the 45 that I bought when it was released as a single when the movie The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas came out. She costarred with Burt Reynolds.

R91 That skit was from 2000 when Whitney was going through her decline. She still released good music after the 2000s. None of them were ballads though.

[quote]In order to achieve Houston's vocal acrobatics....

"Acrobatics"...that's exactly what they were.

Lots of showy tasteless vocal bling.

It would have been ok if used judiciously, but Houston laid it on without artistry, clobbering lyrics and meaning.

She had a great voice but was a lousy singer.

^charlie, always upset because Barbra is NEVER number one in anyone's heart or mind or memory.

Whitney has millions more fan dead than Streisand ever had in her life.

Make no mistake, Whitney knew "how" to sing.

As she got older she became almost cold and mechanical. Sure she sweat a lot and gestured- but the artistry and subtle aspects of great singing are missing. While I would say it was due to drugs- Garland- even clearly stoned- had artistry in her delivery. She colored her phrasing to fit the lyric connecting the mind to the heart in the song. Of course Whitney had incredible pipes and control at her peak- but she was not as good at singing. Hard to describe. I don't think she was very smart, intellectually or intuitively. It's reflected somewhat in the material she sang over the span of her career. Clive Davis told her what to sing and she did that. I have no sense of what she loved other than gospel- and that is the music in which she shines the most. She recorded mostly pop and power ballads, at best. Every now and then she would tackle standards- but to poor effect (My Man- hard to listen to).

Whitney was divine, far from dumb and very musical. The greatest of all time.

R112: The original version was on the same album as “Jolene.”

Martin Lawrence clearly sang the best version of this song.

R111 I don't think she meant any harm. That's not even what a k hole is

To me its one of the epic love songs that works because its so technically perfect. Its not suppose to have an interpretation, bluesy vocal pains or overly artistic delivery. Its a showcase in epic vocal balladry.

Whitney performing "I Will Always Love You" is like a circus sideshow act: Step right up and listen to her hit and hold those notes!

Dolly disagrees with you R123. Your comments on this thread are full of hate.

Dolly said it best when she was asked out Whitney's version of her song:

"At first, I wasn't quite sure how to react, because the song was so personal to me and I just couldn't imagine someone else singing it and conveying the feeling behind it. Then I got the first royalty check and I said, 'Whitney! Keep singin' your sweet little heart out!'"

Dolly shuts the tread down at r124. Also, Dolly’s reaction was typical of so many people first time they heard it. The acapella intro was incongruous With what was on radio at the time, you stopped what you were doing and to wonder the hell that was. It was breathtaking.

Now, imagine this, Dolly is an established icon embedded in American culture for decades. She’s one of the few who being called ‘living legend’ isn’t an exaggeration. Yet every interview, bio, and article about her now has to have a part about that song because of Whitney’s version. One of the greatest records in the history of popular music.

Bless poor117’s heart. He’s worked so hard on this and other threads trying to convince people that the Whitney Houston wasn’t a good singer, and changed a grand total of ZERO minds.

Exactly R127. I Will Always Love You by Whitney remains the best selling single by any woman in history, from the best selling soundtrack album of all time.

I remember when they added this song to the Muzak playlist at work, leading a group of us to climb up on our desktops so we could cover the four ceiling speakers in our work area with cardboard. We also did it when that Celine Dion song from the Titanic movie got added.

Did Bobbie Brown die yet? It's not right that she and her daughter died but he didn't. He should have been the one to go since he got her hooked on drugs.

What R129 said.

Hear that song again? I'd rather drown in the shower.

Ths ong is murdered by her. Like Dolly keeping it simple.

She was a junkie who died in a bath full of her own shit.

[quote] the voice, the acapella,

Oh, dear!

[quote] I remember the first time I heard her acapella intro

Oh, DEAR!

[quote] The acapella intro

Oh, fucking DEAR!

Whitney scream-sings this. Mostly screams it. It’s grating after one listen.

Dolly’s version is pure and simple. Heart-wrenching.

I wish she could have done the same thing to You Light Up My Life.

Instead Whitney’s recording is rather pallid. Granted she recorded it very late in her career

R135 "You Light Up My Life."?

We know Whitney sang the most maudlin tunes...but that one too?

Oh God, please no.

I don’t think people understand how many factors play into making a song a hit especially back in the day. Artists today can have a hit with a basic voice and a great beat or a good voice and a rubbish beat but Whitney was truly an artist in how she communicated a story and emotion with her voice. Her mother, Cissy, had a very similar style of singing that inspired Whitney’s singing style but she did not produce songs the way that Whitney did. It really is an art, similar to comedic timing to know how to sing a song..when to go high or low or belt or whatever and the choices an artist makes can really make a difference in a song. Whitney’s version of “I will always love you” is a perfect example of great choices in interpretation and delivery which is why the song was a monster hit. Singers like Whitney, Mariah, Adele, Celine are really excellent in this art besides just having extraordinary voices. This is why they can have ballads that stand the test of time. Madonna, too in her ballads had good emotional delivery coupled with a unique tone but a mediocre singing ability. Singers don’t get enough credit for song interpretation and when you think of Houston’s entire catalogue, its amazing what she achieved emotionally with her songs.

When this song came out, I was into LA/NYC punk scene. So not my genre or world at all, but I loved it SO much, I stole a copy from a record store in Westwood. I knew my other punk friends would just tease me to no end. I absolutely love Whitney's version. I also love Dolly's. So while it's cool you don't agree, I very much disagree.

I love Dolly's version more , of course , but to say Whitney didnt knock it out of the park is ridiculous. I wanted to hate it at first ,being a fan of the original , but i was truly blown away .

R130 that is a total lie. Brown never got her hooked on drugs. He said she was already a drug addict for decades when they got together.

R140 Of course that's what he would say

R140 Well, if Bobby says it, it must be true!

Whitney's longtime friend/secret lover even states that Whitney was already a drug addict before meeting Bobby.

R133 has entirely too much time on her hands.

I would trust Brown a million times more than a trashy closeted lesbian life long drug addict like Whitney.

Some folks have always got to try and tear others down. SMH.

The song as performed by Whitney was incredible and Dolly agrees. I swear, to have some of you tell it, you're all much better singers than Whitney ever could have dreamed of being.

She may not have been everyone's cup of tea. Some folks like chocolate. Some folks like vanilla. But there's no denying by honest people that Whitney had an incredible voice and perhaps the best of a generation.

Whitney had zero cred as a black anything. She was whiter than white. Most blacks probably thought she was a complete fraud for trying to sound black in the 90s.

r147 As a Black person, you’re out of your fucking mind. I was born in ‘96 so maybe this might have been a thing in the 80s for a short period but I’ve never heard any Black person say that in real life.

My mom is a bigger fan of music in the style of Anita Baker, Sade, and various Neo Soul singers when not listening to gospel. Her favorite singer is Phyllis Hyman. But, she has always thought Whitney was the greatest female singer of all time and I’ve never heard her say her music was too White.

Most of my family members and friends would say the same thing about Whitney if they didn’t say Aretha, Chaka, etc. I didn’t hear about the “Whitney was too White” thing until years after she died and only online or in White magazine articles.

The Whitney songs I grew up knowing about where Exhale, The Bodyguard Soundtrack, You Give Good Love, My Love is Your Love, etc. They get played often on Black classic R&B stations and Black films. I watched Brandy’s Cinderella, my mother’s favorite movie Waiting to Exhale, and The Preacher’s Wife. For me, her Urban/R&B image is far more definitive than the Pop music she did in the 80s. I didn’t even know How Will I Know and I Wanna Dance with Somebody existed!

Also, Black people aren’t a monolith and it’s an extremely racist thing to imply. I think she made better R&B music but her Pop side is just as valid.

r147 Also, so many young Black female singers have named her as a primary or secondary influence. She was named the best female artist of the 90s at the Soul Train Music Awards in 2000. She was the first singer to get a Lifetime Achievement award at BET too. Even as a punchline in the 2000s, I remember her getting standing ovations and tributes at Black award shows. It was how I knew she was a legend despite all of the crackhead jokes. White audiences dumped Whitney a lot sooner than Black audiences.

Whitney was bad. Good and bad. The best.

This is a wonderful interview with Whitney on the making of My Love Is Your Love album.

Dolly Parton made a shit load of money off this record, more so than Whitney Houston ever made from it herself.

too much screaming, played too much.

Never a boring interview, r151.

[quote]Dolly Parton made a shit load of money off this record, more so than Whitney Houston ever made from it herself.

We're happy for Dolly to have that, dear. She deserves it more than anybody and we're happy for her. We like our music because of how it sounds, not the money it made. The sales only prove that a large number of fans agree with us, and if we have to use that metric, Whitney wins again.

She made plenty of money for us.

R152, see R125.

No black person has ever posted on DL. Fuck off with your BS. And the word black is never capitalized. No one says - as a White person. Good God you trolls are stupid

Whitney is the best and supreme vocalist In the last 50 years but I wouldn’t call her a black singer. She was the whitest black singer who pretended to be black

r149, Agreed. White audiences will give up on black artists before black people do, even the ones we have criticized for selling out. In many ways black audiences don't like the brand of perfection especially among their black female artists. Beyonce has also been accused of "too white" scarlet letter despite never adopting that overt top 40 sound and always making soul/hip-hop music. She rocks a blonde weave but nearly half the females in the industry of all backgrounds do.

R160 Why is it whenever a black artists achieves such huge success they are considered too white or a sell out? Whitney's singing as well as many modern singers from all racial backgrounds have been inspired by black singers.

R161 Blacks themselves considered her white as a ghost. They are the only ones who matter in judging one of their own.

You stupid ass bitch. Fuck you OP. See what your hating has cost. You conjured the ghost of Whitney and unleashed the Grammy curse and killed Kobe Bryant. Cheap ass bitch.

R163 was Whitley raped by Kobe too. Not very nice. Maybe he's the one who held her down in that tub too.

^^^ Tina Turner owed her post-"Private Dancer" megacareer to adoring, pasty-faced white audiences, R161. Black folks could NOT have cared less.

Ditto Darius Rucker / Hootie & The Blowfish. And big chunks of the Lionel Ritchie / Etta James crowds. AND Rhiannon Giddens.

Knock it off with your horseshit, already.

[quote]There will never be another voice like Whitney Houston. Never.

I give you Glennis Grace.

R165 Nobody ever doubted that Tina was black. Her daily beatings and abuse from Ike for decades were proof of that. Her life was very typical of blacks. Blacks never accused Tina of being a white girl her whole life like Whitney.

More wisdom and critique from R162:

[quote]How old were you when you realised you hate everybody? The whole mass of humans, I just hate them.

[quote] Her melisma on I Will Always Love You is terrible and extremely annoying. Sadly the same can be said for most of her songs. Her songs are as useful and nutrient rich as white bread.

[quote]LOL. Whitney ass-licker.

[quote]Puh lease. She had three or four years of good singing then by the early 90s she destroyed it. All of her songs were cliched musical crap.

[quote]Three years top. Whitney ass-licker. Take some sleeping pills and take a bath.

[quote]You have to really question the mental state of any loser who chooses to deify a drug addicted low life like Whitney who sang nothing but horrible songs chosen by a disgusting old white dude (Clive Davis). Whitney lovers are even more sick and pathetic than Janbots or Vadge lovers.

[quote]Big words, fucktard. You are clearly psychotic and off your meds. Go to bed, kill yourself, whatever.

[quote]I would trust Brown a million times more than a trashy closeted lesbian life long drug addict like Whitney.

[quote]No black person has ever posted on DL. Fuck off with your BS. And the word black is never capitalized. No one says - as a White person. Good God you trolls are stupid.

[quote]Whitney had zero cred as a black anything. She was whiter than white. Most blacks probably thought she was a complete fraud for trying to sound black in the 90s.

Can we disregard this Whitney hating racist fool now? Dude is mentally deranged. And yes, it's a guy.

[quote]Titanic came out 22 years ago. For those who remember, how many times did you see it? It was on screens from December to end of July 1998. I saw it 7 times mainly because I loved the scenes of the ship sinking.

Ship, sunk.

Ladies, please.

Another.

R169 One of Whitney's shitty songs. Yuck. That is musical rape.

Whitney was the breakthrough. A church girl singer who came in a pretty package and sang with that soprano as Aretha called it - she was so musical and beautiful enough to be sold as THE first black pop princess. Whitney married the beauty and precision of popular singing with the aspirational exclamations & emotion of gospel music and the soulful phrases and sexual longing of rhythm and blues. Whitney changed music forever. That's how. She was that beautiful BLACK girl who could sing as great as Streisand. Her incredible voice and beautiful ability was greater than any vision Arista had for her look or sound.

Whitney and Michael Jackson changed the world of music forever. Jackson took James Brown mainstream and Whitney honored her predecessors and all our creators. Her gospell roots were never far away. Her vocal ability and GIFT was greater than anyone imagined. Her sound. I was born in 1983. My parents lived and rejoiced to this fresh gorgeous sound. Whitney in 1989 singing on the Grammy awards - oh man, her star was born. No greater live vocal performance has been heard since. One Moment In Time was like church bells ringing all over our house. Her voice had that much RING to it. That's resonance for you non choir types. And she nailed that G5 with gorgeous vibrato. Fuck. She proved she was as good a singer as Streisand but with a greater, more beautiful and powerful voice.

Whitney WAS criticized for being too careful and white on her first two albums, but then people HEARD her SING. It's hard to imagine anyone else who was so vocally gifted AND so beautiful. Because there are none. Whitney's vocal gift IS the greatest of them all. Some don't want to say it now, but her voice was the most perfect and beautiful of them all. And of course she could sing properly charlie. Whitney never was meant to sing the american songbook or Stephen Sondheim. She produced her own sound. Streisand was afraid to sing live because she couldn't replicate the sound of her recordings (she cant) but Whitney surpassed and imbued her studio recordings with so much soul and passion when she sang LIVE. Her vocal "acrobatics" were a gift to her audience and a beautiful opportunity for Whitney Houston to be her real self. The greatest voice of all time. There are better singers but that's a different category. So many here don't seem to understand. Whitney had and still has the greatest voice of our time. People can sing her songs, but they can never sound like her. Sometimes I catch a glimpse of her tone or phrasing - it makes me cry. Whitney was so special.

She's high AF here, and she cheats by shouting a few notes beautifully...but listen to her glorious voice open up and soar. Her musicality, her open heart and such deep musical understanding and commitment. Those corny pop songs. She made them vocal arias. She was fucking amazing. Far from white. Fuck off troll. You'll never change what's true.

Thread closed r171. Preach.

R171 She's dreadful in that clip.

It's all about her showing off. It's not singing. It's making noises.

The clip sums up everything awful about her as a singer.

Whitney was one of the few who’s live singing regularly eclipsed the studio recordings. But I don’t think she ever did that with ‘I Will Always Love You‘. That’s how great that record is. I also don’t think she ever sang ‘Run to You’ live, it’s a very difficult song.

Here she in in 1987 making sure no one would ever listen to the studio version of ‘Didn’t We Almost Have It All’ again.

I love Whitney’s singing but that song needs a bridge.

[quote] Whitney was one of the few who’s live singing

Oh, dear!

R174 Another sappy, corny, piece of schmaltz. Houston's handlers had the very worst taste in music.

The knew what would sell. We wouldn’t be talking about her if she’d gone the niche route.

I will add to the chorus that says Whitney was incredible live. While many artists try to replicate their records while on stage, Whitney made her pop songs much more gospel-y in concert--melismas, swoops, incredible vocalizing. Hers was the first big concert I ever went too and was stunned at what she could do. Her recordings don't even come close to her abilities.

She was the real deal.

Some of you really need to stop living vicariously through celebrities, that way your world won't end when you come across a person who doesn't deify your idols.

No one's world is ending, toots. We're just debating whether the woman known widely as the greatest voice of her generation deserved such accolades or not

I'll say. Accolades aren't enough.

And YOOOOOOO ewwwww ewwwww will always loverly me

Her successors are even worse. Name one genuinely good Beyoncé song.

R184 Ring the Alarm (the remix) is a decent Beyonce jam. I remember having it on my iPod cardio playlist back in the day. The rest of her catalog, I agree, is pretty much garbage.

They play this song at least three times in the morning on the radio and it makes we wanna hold Whitley's head down in the tub myself. STFU you wailing witch.

Gospel was a natural fit for her, r182.

It’s not right but it’s ok is my jam

It's the perfect record and is successful to this day because it is.

R188, the remix is even better.

R189 perfect record for morons and shit for brains.

r182 just wow! Can you imagine having that vocal ability and prowess..what a gift! She must have felt really special to God.

I will always love chew.

R124, Dolly Parton never said that. You made it up.

Desperate fucking song.

Dolly said what she said R194. As you can hear. Whitney had a miracle of a voice. Even Dolly knows that. She usually jokes about the money, because all singers have large egos, but Dolly knows that Whitney did something magnificent with her simple song. I Will Always Love You doesn't even have a bridge. Whitney made it into something great and grand and seismographic. EPIC.

Dolly's simple song WAS just as beautiful in a more direct way. But only by her, a very long time ago. Dolly throws her songs away when she performs them. She half talks and sings, giggles in the middle and makes dumb jokes. She's a genius but not a particularly sensitive performer.

Whitney always laid her heart on the line when she performed, even on her worst days.

Her best song was You Give Good Love.

Linda Ronstadt, best version.

Linda Ronstadt doesn't sing the last verse. This is a very famous part of the famous Whitney recording night. She liked Linda's version and Costner called Dolly about recording the song. Dolly said, no, no. You can't sing this song without the final verse - "I hope life treats you kind, and I hope you have all you've dreamed of.... and I wish to you joy and happiness - But above all this, I wish you love."

Whitney gave an electric shock the way she sang the word JOY and then all the tenderness in the world to "above all this I wish you love."

Ronstadt as usual missed the meaning of the song, in some dumb effort to show off her voice in 3 minutes or less. She's a mid level cover artist.

Whitney spun Dolly's wheel and blew the song into the stratosphere. She amplified the heart of it. The final song in the film was supposed to be What Becomes of The Broken Hearted, but they found out that it was being used in another soundtrack. Costner came up with Dolly's song.

The version we hear of I Will Always Love You in The Bodyguard film was recorded live on film by Whitney, with Ricky Minor and her band.

The soundtrack version was recorded in one take. They did two more. But her first vocal take was used. Whitney was a genius vocalist and most tender singer. That gorgeous voice.

Ronstadt is from my parent's generation and even they admit that she just went through the motions when singing. But her arrangement of IWALY was the one that Whitney liked.

Not without the most important verse, Dolly said. And so we have it. Tender and regretful and loving. By Dolly. And something more profound and eternal by Whitney.

If Dolly really first heard Whitney’s version while driving and pulled over, that’s so epic.

I always loathed this song, no matter who sings it. I can't stand the damn thing, but some people think it's SO beautiful. Like hell it is! It's just VERY maudlin.

Put in your earphones, close your eyes and listen. Like you've never heard it before. Her voice was a gift from all our creators. The song's a bit simple. Ha.

This is a good example of a song that the first time you hear it, you just know it's going to be a major #1 smash hit on the charts. You just KNOW. That doesn't happen very often IMO.

I like Dolly's version too, although I wish she had sung rather than spoke the last verse.

r199, Thank you. Its schlocky, corny, beautiful, poppy all at once. There is something wrong with you if you don't realize this is a beautiful song, beautifully sung. It just is. Some things just are. Its just a beautiful ass record. Whitney Houston sang this shit brilliantly. Its nothing like my heart will go on. Its just soulfully, yet perfectly executed in a pop way. She sang her fkin heart out.

After it’s success, many artistes copied the a capella opening, including Alicia Keys ‘Fallon’ and Mariah Carey ‘Open Arms’. But they were all not Whitney.

Whitney was a terrific singer, but most of her songs are maudlin and sentimental, and not in a good way. "I Will Always Love You" works for Dolly, but Whitney barrels through it.

She doesn’t blast through the whole song. The first verse is quite delicately sang.

To be fair, others like Nina Simone had done the a capella intro before, but there’s no gradual build up, they usually just went in at full blast.

Whitney's voice never excluded others. I don't think she claimed to be first at anything. She was a big fan of Janet and Dionne and Aretha and Barbra and Brandi and Diana and Mary J and Chaka. Whitney was confident in the gift that was given her. When your voice and ability are that great - you can't help but know it. Sometimes she backed herself up on stage with her own power. What a magnificent voice she had. Like church bells and trumpets.

Your life is like a mountain

And your heart is like a church

With wide open doors

And to be with you

Is to find myself in the best of dreams

Your love feels like trumpets

Ignore Bobby and listen to that woman sing! It's not only about hitting the notes, it's the incredible tone and power and beauty of her voice. Out of the park. Whitney was a stunning singer, high as fuck.

Op: you are dead right. It’s been reported that this trash is played on an endless loop full blast at Korean prison camps

Whitney sing 'He, I Believe' at Wembley, London in 1988.

Whitney was a true lover of music and loved to get on stage impromptu to jam with musicians she loved. They say many of the best performers have stage fright, Whitney wasn’t one of them. She enjoyed the stage. Here she is with Bebe Winans in 1998.

^ Not 1998, but 2000, when her problems had already become public knowledge. Her instincts are still great.

"Whitney's voice never excluded others."

Except Paula Abdul.

^ That was a private comment probably triggered by Bobby raving about Paula.

r206, I actually think she made mere maudlin pop songs come to life. She made those romancy pop songs into a stories with her voice. If you listen, Saving All My Love for You, its basically here life story if one believes she is a lesbian.

I know I will get scorn for this but to me Beyonce is the closest thing to Whitney in that she ALWAYS maintains perfect pitch when singing live. ALWAYS. Bey voice is just more gritty, but in my opinion more versatile.

Except R179, she was at best uneven in concert and frequently worse.

r217 She covered Saving All My Love for You after her prolonged affair with Jermaine Jackson. This has been confirmed by many people including Whitney, Jermaine, and even Robyn. The guy in the music video even looks exactly like Jermaine.

If you’re going to make assumptions about her sexuality, at least know basic fucking facts.

Whitney had a sexual relationship with one woman for two years and multiple men. Datalongue thinks bisexuality and experimenting doesn’t exist.

r219 STFU you obsessed, lying cunt.

r217 Saving All My Love for You is literally about a sexual affair between a married man and woman. It’s not about not being able to be with a lover.

Read Robyn’s book, their relationship is not a tragic love story at all. I thought Whitney was bisexual before reading it but now I’m not even sure if she’s queer.

From Robyn’s account, Whitney loved Robyn’s devotion more than anything else. Their sexual relationship ended after two years. She then moved on to a prolonged, secret affair with Jermaine Jackson. Robyn explicitly describes many of of Whitney’s relationships but never claims there were other women and doesn’t feel that Whitney struggled with her sexuality.

She describes herself being jealous of Whitney’s male partners and Whitney being largely indifferent to her jealousy.

Even while they were still dating, Whitney adopted a cat and when Robyn put up an ultimatum between her and the cat, Whitney told Robyn to “pack your bags” without hesitation. Robyn just dropped it. Even against a cat, Robyn was not her first choice.

As I said before, Whitney is described as loving the security of Robyn’s devotion and often used her as a defensive mechanism against the abuses of her family and eventually Bobby. Robyn is a confidant, security blanket, weapon, and useful tool but never the love of Whitney’s life.

She’s convinced that Whitney was blindingly in love with Bobby. Robyn sees herself as bisexual and has had several relationships with men and women.

It would have probably have been way better if Whitney was gay and not devoted to a serial cheater and abuser on top of her drug addiction and family. It’s just not true. This idea that Bobby was just a beard is stupid. We could make a very long list of the reasons Whitney was an addict before we got to her sexuality.

R219 is charlie. It's so perverse that he keeps trying to discount everything about Whitney. He loves Barbara Streusel. That's beautiful. Barbara had a pretty voice, one that Whitney appreciated. Charlie should leave that alone because the receipts are piling up...

Whitney loved herself some Bobby for sure. Saving All My Love, like all her songs, were best performed live. Against charlie's claims, Whitney snatched wigs and gave moments of unforgettable beauty to people who attended her more than one thousand concerts over 25 years. Her voice was superhuman from 1983 until 2000. Whitney had a long drug addiction and a well documented fall from esteem. But she was always a success and she'll never be forgotten. She gains new fans everyday. Twenty documentaries, one feature film, that new dam fuck hologram tour and some of her best live performances have been in successful release in the 8 years since her death. Whitney failed herself and her public, but she never stood less than tall & she always sang live. She damaged her voice and hurt her legacy but she gave everything that she had, everytime, until the last day of her life.

Streisand has performed in concert - less than 150 times in 70 years. She's saving all her love...for herself.

Whitney was beautiful. That gorgeous voice, smiling through G5 with perfect vibrato. Her talent was astounding. Still a colt here.

Wow, Whitney was a million watt young woman. And something more powerful in the years to come. One of the greatest singers of all time. That voice.

Here is a good vocal performance by Dolly of her most famous song. I always think of Jolene as being Dolly's best song though. She has about 20 to choose from.

What lights they are in this world. Both of them.

You just hate it because it was played to death.

The same with My heart will go on and Let it Go.

I never actually tired of Let it go but the other two were too much.

r218, auto tune

Beyonce doesn't need autotune. She has used Pro tool effects and everything else on her recordings. She's hype. But she never required auto tune to sing beautifully. Her vocal ability is one of the greatest in the industry. Go to a concert of hers. She ain't Britney Spears. Bey can sing as well as the best divas. It's her tone that doesn't impress. Beyonce wanted to be as good as Tina, Prince and MJ. She is. LIVE.

Beyonce would be the first to tell you that Whitney Houston's voice was the greatest of all time.

[quote]Charlie should leave that alone because the receipts are piling up...

They sure. That dumb old racist bitch.