HBO's Succession is not good

Agreed. White devil nonsense.

I liked it. Took 2-3 episodes to get it but then ended up being one of my favorite shows. It nails the life of the 1% and the current state of capitalism and media,

I loved it and can’t wait for the next season.

I also like the son, Kendal, I think his name is.

The subject matter is real-life, expect for the other son, who only cracks wise. He’s too unrealistic, but the rest of it I can see. If you ever quarreled over a will, you might understand more so.

I agree. Unlikeable characters and not in the love to hate kind of way. It’s disguised as prestige TV and it’s not great. I like Culkin and Cox but that’s enough to keep watching. I keep hoping it will get better. Not buying into the hype!!

Jeremy Strong is the actor that plays Kendall.

It is like Budapest Hotel, 'Ewww Rich people are yucky, but we love peeking in on their lives'. Boring voyeurism

It’s a soap opera, basically. But it’s very well acted. And Siobhan’s ass is fantastic

That was what you got out of "The Grand Budapest Hotel," r6? Bizarre.

I didn’t like the first few episodes, op, but I gave it another chance and it’s really really good. The characters are VERY unlikable and it may not be your cup of tea but the show as a whole is excellent.

I love it. I can’t wait for season 3.

OP says he usually never likes what the critics like. I don't know why you guys are trying to convince him he will like it.

Some people just have different tastes, more mainstream taste than usually what the critics like.

It took me a few episodes to get into it as well, but now it's a show whose characters I love to hate. Every now and then I listen to the theme music on YouTube just for fun.

The pilot of the show is probably the weakest episode.

It’s very well written and acted, with the exception of “Greg.”

I get my fill of rich lying scumbags watching the news. This shit is not entertaining anymore.

Season 2 is brilliantly plotted. For me, it didn't fully gel until the last two episodes of Season 1, so hang in there, OP.

[R12] Thanks for posting the theme - super music, and can see why it's quick fix.

Because shitty shows with "prestigious" award-bait plots get needless acclaim. Look at The Wire.

The Wire is a masterpiece r18. It's not our fault if you have shitty taste.

R19 The Wire is a boring police procedural with unlikable characters and tepid dialogue. Aside from the cussing, nudity, and violence, there isn't a single damn thing that separates it from any other cop show.

I heard you the first time, you shitty taste. It's okay, I respect your right to have terrible opinions.

I just finished the second season. It's a little soapy, a little wanna-be prestige drama but mostly it's just fantastic stunt casting and billionaire lifestyle porn. The mega yachts, the thousand dollar sunglasses, the fact that someone else is doing all of life's shitty chores for you without you even realizing. Great cast though.

Shiv is a cunt

I don't like a single character. Can't continue watching if I root for no one.

I do not like shir!

People love to watch shit

[quote]a little wanna-be prestige drama

This is like labeling Veep a rom com.

I hate the theme music - they play it eight times an episode and it just doesn't fit.

I fucking love this show. It's one of those shows that I know costs a lot to make and can easily be mothballed by HBO. S2 was brilliant, I cant wait for S3! But as others have said, it takes at least an episode or 2 to get into it. I love and hate everyone except Jerrie, The show is serious yet hilarious at times.

*Gerri

Well I love it. It's so discordant, those high sharp piano notes. It's like someone getting stabbed with a knife, over and over. That pretty much sums up the show.

I didn't think I could like a show with no redeeming characters. It took me awhile to get the hang of it. I must have watched the first half hour three times because Cousin Greg in his character costume just wasn't making sense but it was so funny when the little kids attacked him. Then it jumped to Kendall rapping in the car with the headphones on and as soon as he got out, you knew he was going to fail (fail what? we don't know yet), just from the camera angle. I love all the sick humor and the back stabbing. Shiv's husband torturing Cousin Greg to keep him off balance. The clueless new age son, running for president. The wife has kinda faded into the background unfortunately. She had a better storyline in the first season.

I'm not sure how many seasons it can run with each sibling jockeying for power only to be squashed by dad. My guess is they will kill him off in the next season so the kids will turn on each other. Or the wife manages to take control.

Terrible, boring, dry, predictable, cheap, stunted, amateurish, cliche, and a complete waste of a good concept.

I loved all that corporate greed.

OP gave up after two episodes and has decided to fart this holy opinion out her goddamn caftan. FUCK OFF!

Does it get better?

I'm about five episodes in and it still hasn't clicked.

Everyone is detestable and the writers seem to know it.

Shiv's husband is so creepy I can't imagine anyone in real life taking him seriously. I keep thinking he wants to fuck doofy cousin Greg too.

Kendal's JAPpy wife is the only one I vaguely feel any sympathy for.

When does it turn the corner?

I hate the real Murdochs. Why would I watch the fictional Murdochs?

I love it.

Why do you love it R37 and did you love it from Episode 1?

I love it, too. It is an indictment of our times. It also helps to watch it as comedy, if you can, not a drama. But if you don't like it, don't watch it. It's just that simple.

Because these are not the fictional Murdochs. These are the Roys. They are based in part on the Murdochs, but they're based also on the Redstones, and the Sulzbergers, and the Binghams.

I cannot stand this series either. These people exist in real life. Who wants to waste time on a series about super wealthy obnoxious people, same reason I cannot stand BILLIONS.

TV and films should mostly be about being entertained, not having my blood pressure get higher. I cannot stand what the wealthy have done to the world, why would I waste time on a series about these types of horrible greedy people?

I liked the first season except the last episode was completely predictable.

Billions at least had a twist R41

Axe was clearly the more detestable of the two on the surface--he was shadier and slimier--but you found yourself rooting for him because he was a more likeable/charming person and while Chuck was allegedly doing good, he was such a weasely prick you wanted him to fail.

But agreed that the dynamic quickly got old and no one changed at all and you never understood what Wendy saw in either of them or why she didn't warrant a back story the way even minor characters on the show did.

Wealthy white people? There is no reason or excuse for them.

I watched it and it's entertaining and I couldn't care less about old fat farts' opinion. Next!

For God's sake, whoever is forcing r41 to watch this series, please STOP!!!

The theme music is an ear worm for sure and as someone above said, perfect for this show. The family is beyond obnoxious and they all think they are smarter than anyone else, but have to agree this show is witty and clever and I’m excited for another season.

They very best episode is when they stay over at the old money "liberal" blue bloods and the Roys simply fall apart. Imagine if the Trumps were forced to have dinner with the Kennedy's in order to secure a real estate deal. A simple show would have made the Roys bad and the blue bloods liberal intellectuals good, but this show leaves so many easter eggs that shows the hypocrisy of both wealthy families. If anyone gets to that episode (season 2) keep an eye out for the helps reactions to things. It's brilliant. The show continually adds little nuggets like that throughout the story line.

I will repeat. I hated E1 and hated the family at first. But once I was bought in and got used to their world I really enjoyed the ride. It feels like a more realistic and serious take on Dallas or Dynasty. It's not really glorifying wealth, but you almost watch as if seeing real estate porn. The most shocking aspect of the show is that despite their extreme fortunes, like having a casual family dinner in a $150 million dollar Hampton's estate (the real price) they just don't even notice or care. Like Louis XVI shrugging when looking around Versailles.

Because it's shot in real locations, minus the Roy's home, it really gives you a NYC feeling. I'd say give the show another chance. Despite my comparison between the Trumps and Kennedy's, the Roys are not the Trumps so we avoid having to look at that trash.

So I stuck with it and yes, it definitely grew on me by around episode 7 and now I am starting to make my way through the second season.

Though I still think that Tom really wants to fuck Cousin Greg and that he's one drink too many away from forcing himself on Greg instead of picking on him.

Love this show so much. It took a few episodes, before I realized, it's a very dark comedy. Some of the best television I have ever seen.

I really love this show too. I am eagerly awaiting new episodes.

It took me a couple of tries to finish the pilot and then I binged it just before Season 2 was released. It’s sly and seductive. A rare excellent cast with Cox and Strong as standouts.

Ozark was the same for me, tried to watch the pilot three times and recently got into it. Highly recommend.

Glad you stuck with it R35. I felt like you, the first 5 episodes were alright but I wasn't really sold ... until the 6th episode. That upped the ante for me and I was sucked in. I'm a shameless Kendall fan now. I find the family dynamics fascinating.

R50 has it right. I have never laughed so hard than during this show. Some of the lines they come up with - its very In The Thick of It. That Brit savage sarcasm. Jesse Armstrong wrote for the UK show Peeps, and I guess his particular specialty is writing scenes so cringe worthy you want to disappear into the pillows. The episode Dundee - wow. My jaw just hung open through Kendall's entire rap.

Macfadyen as Tom Wamsgam is the show's MVP (although Strong is my #1 boy).

^That was supposed to be Peep *Show*, urgh.

I love it too and I feel like it ate Billions lunch a little. I liked Billions, watched that first and wasn't going to watch Succession because of that because as others have said, we already have an asshole rich person as president, but HBO made is accessible in providing it for free.

I like Tom and Cousin Greg the most because as reprehensible as the others are, people like Tom and Cousin Greg are the kind that ruin the world. That spinelessness and obsequiousness. And you don't necessarily see coming. Trump is surrounded by Toms and Cousin Gregs ( right down to contributing anonymously to a tell all book) to the detriment of the country.

That freakout when they had to figure out what to say at the hearing, priceless. Cousin Greg seems like a babe in the woods and rootable in comparison until you realize he's set to inherit 250,000 dollars but can't fathom that being enough money so he tries to figure how to stick with the Roy's in all their corrupt dysfunction.

Billions went sideways when they decided to make Axe and Chuck, friends/friendly. I am catching up on it now, but these last two season seem a kind of directionless mess.

I struggled through the 1st season of "Billions", and took a pass on every season after.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I thought Paul Giammatti and what's-his-face from "Homeland" were both TERRIBLE in it. Just nonstop, over-the-top, comic-book-villain-level hamming it up from both of them. I'm surprised they didn't give them both moustaches to twirl.

As for "Succession", I watched the first episode, then forgot to watch the rest, and didn't miss it.

Ooh, I love it. Like others have said, it takes a bit to get the hang of it. And agree it’s a very dark comedy. I alternate between being horrified and laughing my ass off. The genius of it is that every character can make me feel sorry for them and then they turn around and do something awful.

I had to put it out of my mind because I would be jonesing for the next season without any relief.

There's a theory that Cousin Greg ends up CEO by the end.

What is really interesting - particularly in light of the finale of S2 - is that James Murdoch has left his dad's company. Wonder if he watches the show, ha ha.

R56, I think that Billions over the top was supposed to be their 'New Yorkness' and prior to Succession coming on the scene, I think the Homeland guy's character was supposed to be kind of Trump if he had charisma and was the stable genius he claims to be. He doesn't exactly roll subtley. But I can definitely understand taking a pass on both. It's how I feel about Ray Donovan which is similar in its way.

For people who are watching it now, there is a huge thread on the last season if you wanted to follow along with what the DL was saying.

I love this show. And no. It doesn’t need several episodes. The first scenes of the first episode with Cousin Greg in the costume and Kendal rapping in the car showed potential and already got me interested. I’ve been obsessed ever since.

It’s such an American thing to complain about unlikeable characters. Why do they have to be likeable? Why does every story have to have the one-dimensional good guy with the predictable arc for the unwashed masses to root for? (Jim and Pam ruined the otherwise perfect ‘The Office’ for me, btw. Hated them). These people are unpleasant in real life and I hope the creators don’t cave topressure that’s most certainly coming from HBO to “widen it’s appeal” and “expand its audience”. The unintelligent always want simplistic stuff to cheer for, like wrestling. The second they try is when the show jumps the shark and starts careening to cancellation.

I agree with r48 that ‘Tern Haven’ (season 2, episode 5) was one of the mostgripping episodes in television history. Superbly shot and acted, especially by the fantastic Cherry Jones, who deserved her Emmy for guest star, and who I hope they turn into a regular. I wrote on another thread that Nan Pierce is the only character that can match the larger than life Logan Roy who otherwise blows everybody else off screen. Keep her.

Logan dominates and I expected Brian Cox to win the Emmy over Jeremy Strong but was pleasantly surprised. I root for Kendal, Greg the Egg and Gerri; loathe Shiv, Roman and Tom Wambsgans. I hope they fail. Lol 😂

It's a pretty good show.

R61 I agree with you that (a)characters don't have to be likeable to be fascinating and that (b) Jim and Pam were obnoxious as fuck. But I think it's just the timing, the sociopathic uber rich and their spoiled offspring have done too much massive and irreparable damage to the US over the last couple decades. For some people it's just too raw at the moment.

The people who write Billions don't seem to understand that their characters are thoroughly loathsome people. Succession gets it.

r56 agreed. I kept hearing about the big showdown in Billions at the end of S1. When I finally made it there I realized it was just a lot scene-chewing and camp. Like these people really didn't think this was high-class TV.

Subsection only works for me because some from DL warned me to hate the characters and get a few episodes into S1.

R63 The show eviscerates the uber wealthy. It's not a celebration of them.

It is a modern DieNasty

I only like the show for its set deigns - specifically the interior decorations of each of the Roys' homes. Plot-wise though, it's pretty boring.

The Axe character in Billions was not supposed to be Trump, he was supposed to be one of many somewhat shady hedge fund guys.

The twist in Billions was that even though Axe (Lewis) was the bad guy and Chuck (Giametti) was the good guy, you found yourself rooting for Axe because he was just a much more likeable person who was generally good to his friends and the people around him, versus Chuck, who was a dick to everyone and in the words of DL, extremely punchable. They had even set it up so that Chuck's wife had far more chemistry with Axe than which Chuck.

It worked for about two seasons but then meandered as the story lines got more and more absurd and giant plot holes never got filled (who watched Chuck and Wendy's kids when they were out every night, how did Wendy manage to make it from Greenwich CT to Brooklyn in 15 minutes)

For those who continued to watch, did they ever give Wendy a back story? That was the biggest plot hole for me--everyone else seemed to get a very detailed back story except her and she was a major character.

According to creator Jesse Armstrong, the Roys are modelled on tabloid-friendly nouveau-riche type families: mainly the Murdochs, with splashes of the Trumps and the Redstones. On the other hand, the blueblood Boston Brahmins, the Pierces, appear to be based on the Sulzberger clan with has run the New York Times since 1896. From the article linked below:

[quote]Despite running the paper of record for over a century, the Sulzbergers (or Ochs-Sulzbergers, as they’re sometimes called) aren’t quite a household name outside New York media and certain social circles. The most famous member of the family outside of media is a cousin, Arthur Golden, who wrote the best-selling novel Memoirs of a Geisha. That’s because unlike the Hiltons, Trumps, Kennedys, Murdochs, Hearsts, Redstones, Kochs, and other moneyed families whose antics often land them in the tabloids, the Sulzbergers have studiously and steadfastly avoided public scrutiny.

We know that they all watch the show, even though James Murdoch publicly denied it, but was sold out by an anonymous snitch. And Brian Cox narrated how Elisabeth Murdoch's husband approached him in a restaurant in London and asked him to "go easy" on Shiv.

^^^ Sorry. Here's the VF article about the Pierces depicting the Och-Sulzbergers.

Makes sense R70/R71

I grew up with a lot of wealthy people, and the level of ostentation a family displayed never correlated to their actual wealth, but rather had everything to do with how insane the generation that made the money was and the fact that they generally passed that insanity on to their children and grandchildren.

The thing is you only hear about the crazy ones as they thrive on getting media attention.

Here's Brian Cox on Stephen Colbert talking about his brush with the Murdochs.

The cast zoomed with Variety in May just before lockdown. Brian Cox is the only one who knows what will happen in season 3.

Season 3 starts filming in November.

I forgot to mention that Kendall is so obviously based on James Murdoch that they aren't even pretending. JM is a big hip hop fan who started Rawkus records that discovered Mos Def and Talib Kweli.

I forgot to mention that Kendall is so obviously based on James Murdoch that they aren't even pretending. JM is a big hip hop fan who started Rawkus records that discovered Mos Def and Talib Kweli.

link:

Actually R77, the consensus seems to be that James is Roman, not Kendall

[quote] Rupert Murdoch’s son, Lachlan Murdoch, hasn’t attempted a vote of no confidence in his dad (that we know of), but he abruptly resigned from his executive post at News Corp and as publisher of the New York Post. Before his departure, most assumed Lachlan would be Rupert’s successor, just like how Succession fans (and Kendall himself), assumed Kendall would be the obvious next-in-line.

[quote] James Murdoch, said to be the rebel of the family, lines up perfectly with Roman Roy. Roman worked for Waystar Royco’s film division, where he was involved with a movie he hates called The Biggest Turkey in the World. James, the former CEO of 21st Century Fox, was also the chairman of Sky before Comcast acquired it in its entirety.

I agree. This show was such a missed opportunity.

I kinda love how none of these people look like, sound like, or act like they are related and they don't interact with each other like any parent/child or siblings I've ever experienced but I still totally believe these characters are a family. I can't wait for new episodes, it sucks that it'll be months until we get them.

R80 Agree although there were a couple of sibling moments: Shiv comforting a suffering Kendall in his office and Shiv, Kendall, and Roman late-night meeting in the boathouse I think at Shiv’s wedding.

People keep forgetting Conor, the eldest son.

My favorite show on TV. It's such a good mirror for the hideous would-be dynasty we have in the White House.

I liked S1 but I loved S2. I am excited for a new season.

R32 thanks for coming along and pitching your autobiography. We’ll get back to you...

I love the show and generally recommend waiting to pass judgement until the end of episode 4.

The show may not be for you. What's silly is to try to assess the quality of the show based on the early episodes and then ask others what's so great about it. Some shows hang in for a few seasons before greatness is achieved. I think Succession gets there by the end of Season 1. But just because it is great doesn't mean its for everyone. It's ok not to like a show or have it be for you. I watched quite a bit of game of thrones before deciding i just didn't give a shit and that has nothing to do with the quality of what they accomplished and that worked for millions of others

I thought the very first episode was so compelling, I was dying for more. I don't understand people who need to warm up to this show.

I think the mysterious Marcia Roy is the most underrated and criminally underused character in the show.

[quote]People keep forgetting Conor, the eldest son.

What do you expect of the first pancake?

Enjoy the show a lot, with a few reservations. Roman is such a total asswipe all the time that I generally prefer his screen time to be minimal. If he had more character shadings like Shiv (who's as malevolent as Roman, but hides it well), he'd be interesting.

Tom's pathological insecurity becomes tiresome at times, and it's clear Shiv keeps him around because he's easy to manipulate and is no match/competition for her. I half expect her to toss him under a bus when the opportunity arises.

I'm only a few episodes into S2 and hope Kendal's near-somnambulism doesn't go on too much longer. Based on the posts here I'm really looking forward to the episode with Cherry Jones.

And I love Geri.

Does no one else think Tom is just a few beers away from raping young Greg?

[quote] They very best episode is when they stay over at the old money "liberal" blue bloods and the Roys simply fall apart. Imagine if the Trumps were forced to have dinner with the Kennedy's in order to secure a real estate deal.

A terrible analogy. The wealthy Pierces on the show (modeled after the Sulzbergers) are bookworms and intellectuals; the Kennedys were and are absolutely not.

[quote] Cousin Greg seems like a babe in the woods and rootable in comparison until you realize he's set to inherit 250,000 dollars

250K? I thought he was set to inherit 5 million from his grandfather.

[quote]Based on the posts here I'm really looking forward to the episode with Cherry Jones.

She’s actually in two episodes r90, and I’d love for you to post your reaction here after you get to them. I totally agree with the rest of your post.

I have entirely mixed feelings about it. I watched all 20 episodes in the past two months. I almost stopped 2 episodes into season 2, but just took a break and finished.

It's okay; really enjoy some aspects, but it's not the best tv show ever like some seem to think.

[quote] Cousin Greg seems like a babe in the woods and rootable in comparison until you realize he's set to inherit 250,000 dollars

[quote] 250K? I thought he was set to inherit 5 million from his grandfather.

You’re both so off. Greg the Egg’s environmentalist granddaddy’s stake in Waystar Royco is worth 250 mil.

A second Covid wave is threatening to derail season 3.

agree, its boring as fuk, so weird its a hit, befuddles my brain. ugh

what else are you guys watching?

Yeah. I think you guys got sold.

It wasn’t good at the start and hasn’t gotten better. I get what they are trying to do, but the execution is just messy.

You're so wrong, r100. This show, for me, is one of the best ever on television. Up there with The Sopranos.

r100 fair to say that if you think it. Examples help if you can provide any.

r92 tried to make the analogy about two relevant families everyone would know. The Kennedy's with their compound probably have some family tradition and family code of conduct like the blue blood family on the show. The Kennedy's are educated, comfortable, aloof, haughty, yet publicly for the people. The Roys are just new money billionaires with all of the flash and dash that we suffer through under the Trumps. The Roys are 18x better and more functional than the Trumps, but it was just an analogy.

The Kennedys are considered arrivist trash by real New England blue bloods.

The Pierces were clearly modeled on the Sulzbergers, but that family is not very well known so they invented the individual members (it's fiction) -- but the Sulzbergers, who own the NY Times are low key and having owned the paper for over 150 years, are many generations in

I disagree. It's actually very good, BUT I gave up because the characters are so FUCKING repugnant that I just couldn't take it anymore. I've surpassed my limit on shows without ANY likable characters. I MUST be getting old.

SUCCESSION is a dramatized version of the Redstone family battles, with a little bit of the Murdoch's thrown in. Both are billionaire conglomerates that were led by 80+ year old men who kept hanging on to power while their kids jockeyed for control. Redstone (whose family also owned amusement parks) was the one who was living in LA and publicly embarrassing himself in mental decline, refusing to give up power as he headed towards 90 years old. He eventually declined so much that he was given a device with three buttons with recordings of his own voice. It said "Yes" "No" and "Fuck You"

[quote] I MUST be getting old.

Plus you've PICKED up the ANNOYING habit of RANDOMLY yelling every THIRD or fourth word, JUST like Mr. Demartino FROM the TV show "Daria"

[quote] Aside from the cussing, nudity, and violence, there isn't a single damn thing that separates it from any other cop show.

It had lots & lots of British actors doing American accents, which Brits love. They heap praise on HBO shows funded by Americans that feature lots of British actors, especially when they play American characters.

Showtime shows too R109

Guess, I'm NOT getting old because I don't even know who the FUCK that is R108.

crumby show, boring as fuk, how does it gain viewers or awards?

I assume you've watched more episodes by now. Still think it's not good, OP?

New NYT article where James Murdoch again insists that he doesn't watch Succession.

Is he Roman or Kendall or a combo of the two?

I recently finished season 1 and like it very much. Part drama, part black comedy. Plus I have kind of a sexual crush on Kendall. I’ve heard season 2 is even better.

Here's what I think r115

Logan Roy = Rupert Murdoch (complete with exotic wife), Sumner Redstone, Donald Trump and Robet Maxwell

Kendall Roy = The rebellious James Murdoch (different order in the family but similar strategies)

Roman Roy = Lachlan Murdoch (less talented and not as smart, but wants it very badly. Also horrible on a personal level)

Shiv Roy = Elisabeth Murdoch (definitely NOT Ivanka)

The real-life families