Patti Smith on Jimmy Fallon, damn damn

And talking about Johnny Carson 40 years ago. Wow.

Still ugly! Just added old to the mix.

For some reason I ran into her in movie theatres - must have been the 90s. I was always shocked by her weird look.

She looks like a homeless street urchin. Where’s the glamor?

Still ugly. Still pretentious. Still an asshole.

Survivuh!

This is someone whose name I've always seen but I have no idea what she did or what she is famous for.

If only there was a way to read a brief biography on Patti Smith.

R7, Surely you have heard this song at some point in your life.

i know she's a hero to many gay men and lesbians, but I always find her a dreary poseur.

Why would she be a "hero to many gay men and lesbians?" She's not gay and has never expressed any affinity for gays as far as I know.

Maybe because she was friends with Robert Mapplethorpe.

She WAS a dreary poseur, but sometimes those poseurs are genuinely talented too. She wrote some lovely songs (my favorite is "Frederick").

I have no idea why she would be, r11; I have just said i know she _is._

She and Mapplethorpe clicked because they had a lot in common: both considered themselves extremely talented artists (neither one of them was), had immense egos, and had the same life goals: to be rich and famous. Oh yeah, and they both were horrible people. They were actually in a sexual relationship. When Smith decided to end it and go on without him he supposedly cried "If you leave me I'll turn gay!" I think that's pretty funny, since despite being Smith's lover he was always gay as a goose. Anway, they were both two truly, profoundly fucked up people and people like that are drawn to each other.

She was also friends with Jim Carroll. I liked some of her stuff last century. I think "People have the Power" is brilliant and very uplifting.

When her music is good it is really really good. I saw her just after her first album, she opened for Journey.

She's still alive?

Odd thread. I thought Patti would be more well liked on here. I love her and her passion for life and art.

Some "poseur," keeping up an "act" for decades.

Yeah well, I ran into Candy Slice recently, and Mr. Gravity has not done that girl any favors.

Caneface for days.

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

When I read "Just Kids", I went from curious to annoyed to hate-reading it and wishing her violent death by the end. She is Pol Pot / Trump / Mother Teresa levels of horrible.

[quote]she opened for Journey.

Are you serious?

Patti Smith is a heroic figure to some (smart, literate) gays and lesbians the same way Joni Mitchell is. And like Joni, she has a lot of haters on here, too.

To each his/her own. For those of you who don't know who she is or why she matters...

Find the fuck out.

Yes, R24. After her band played I asked my friends if we could leave now, as I didn't want to see Journey, but I didn't get my way.

I thought that Patti was annoying and too 'try-hard' when she was young, but now that she's old I've come to love her and her look. Tired of 80 year-old women trying to look like sex kittens.

I love her. her horses album was out of this world. Loved how a not so pretty lady could make it in the rock world where being pretty counts for about 90 per cent of being successful.

I’m tired of people who make NO efforts with their appearance. Celebrities with faces full of fillers are a welcome relief from the dullness of ugly ordinary people.

Yes, maybe if Patti followed Charo's steps you would love her more.

She seems pleasant enough.

Back in her punk rock heydey I remember the craziest shit written about her. And it was true, not made up. A Creem magazine article said that she was good at spitting, would wet her pants when she got excited and fantasized about having a threesome with Keith Richards and Anita Pallenberg. At her first meeting with Dylan Smith was quoted as saying they "suckled each other for a while." WTF? At any rate, Smith's appeal has always escaped me, although she was a good representative of the punk rock scene for a while. In fact, if there had been no punk rock there would be no Patti Smith; she was in the right place at the right time. Unattractive, nasty, pretentious...she was punk rock personified.

Dried-up old dyke.

Patti doesn’t have a fraction of Charo’s talent.

R4 There's no glamour in punk rock, you queen

She looks like she smells.

Damn if she fell into a tub of green dye she'd look like the Wicked Witch of the West

Her version of Because the Night is one of the greatest recordings ever made. I don't listen to it that much these days but she really is the one who made the song work so well. She IS the song.

"Her version of Because the Night is one of the greatest recordings ever made. I don't listen to it that much these days but she really is the one who made the song work so well. She IS the song."

Oh, please. That song is a mediocrity. A mediocrity that was Smith's only hit record. And she never would have had even that if it weren't for Bruce Springsteen, who wrote the music and chorus of the song. At any rate there was critics who commented on how sad it was that the raging Priestess of Punk Rock was reduced to doing an undistinguished pop song with lame lyrics like 'because the night belongs to lovers, because the night belongs to us." And Smith's "singing" is hard to listen to, as it always was. She was a "singer" who could not sing at all.

Am sure most of you cunty haters have not listened to ANY of her music. So here (and note all that she can do with that voice, which still sounds fantastic):

R32, 100% true. Just listen to Ari Smith of The Slits talk about what a bitch Patti was to them.

"Am sure most of you cunty haters have not listened to ANY of her music."

I had her first album "Horses." I thought it was interesting. But I never thought she could sing. But being a punk rock singer, it was not necessary to be able to sing. All you had to do was scream, yowl, make noises. In Smith's case she would sometimes just talk to music instead of sing. She is, and always has been, very unpleasant to listen to.

Patti Smith defines pretentious NYC art-rock more than anyone else. She is a good example of why punk music from other regions (LA, Bay Area and London) was so much better.

I've only heard her first three albums. I know Horses gets all the attention, but I also love her third album, Easter. Is any of her later work worth checking out? I had no idea her 1996 album Gone Again was the last work to feature Jeff Buckley.

That's a fun story, R41. I love The Slits, but didn't really know much about Ari Up herself. As nutty as Patti might have been, she seemed to have eventually matured. Not sure about Ari. I wonder how her children are doing...

[quote]After The Slits disbanded in 1981, Ari moved with her husband and twin sons to jungle regions of Indonesia and Belize and lived among indigenous people in those areas. Later, they moved to Jamaica, eventually settling in Kingston. She continued to make music, first with the New Age Steppers, then as a solo artist, using the stage names Baby Ari, Madussa, and Ari Up. In 2000, [Ari's stepfather and Sex Pistols lead singer] John Lydon and Ari's mother Nora became legal guardians of Ari's twin boys; as Lydon explained "[Ari] let them run free. They couldn’t read, write or form proper sentences. One day Ari said she couldn’t cope with them any more. I suggested they came to us because I wasn’t having them abandoned. They gave us hell, but I loved having kids around."

Ari was a mess. Definition of European trustafarian.

Patti seems mellow and nice these days, but the the extent of her talent is questionable. I watched a video a few months ago on YouTube taken from a Swedish talkshow where she performed a song for her recently-deceased friend, Sam Shepard. Seth Meyers was also there for some godawful reason, and the whole of the song consisted of Patti doing spoken word while strumming a D chord on a guitar for 3 minutes straight (seriously).

I follow her Instagram page, and she seems to live the sort of life that every 20-year-old millennial hipster was emulating in the 2010s—there are lots of pictures of cups of coffee placed next to books, scribblings on notepads, etc., and every post has free-form poetic "stanzas" as a caption. I think she is being genuine, though I can see why people think she is a pretentious person. I do appreciate some of her work as a lyricist and vocalist, but I also think people overestimate her cultural influence. There is a lot of the worship of her that seems to be posturing rather than legitimate admiration.

I love a lot of her music, but I don't love her non-fiction writing.

I found JUST KIDS had a few touching moments, but thought it overrated, to R47's point. And THE M TRAIN was just pointless to me.

It does seem like suddenly, people of all ages who'd never heard of her were reading these books. I wish they'd go back and listen to her albums instead.

I saw her young, downtown, on stage a few time. Chick could not hit a note. Decent energy though and she was most definitely Jolie laide. I did enjoy her first albums with clearly profited from analogue studio wizardry. Live, she was painful, like Gilda Radner memorably sent up.

She's great. I've seen her perform twice, and met her in person at NYC events.

Haters are idiots. Go play some ABBA, queens.

Accidentally FF'd you, r47. Your post made me laugh.

R51 it's fine. I found the clip I mentioned

At the end of the day though, I do think she's had her moments of glory, and this is one of them—a genius performance

The band is certainly on fire, too.

She's cool. However, I don't think she's as great as some people make her out to be.

Incantatory, self-important ranting isn't my cup of bourbon.

Exception: PJ Harvey, who is much more fun to listen to.

She seems like a nice person, but she was rude to Joan Jett and her band-mates, and to Debbie Harry in the past. So she's evidently not as low-maintenance and chill as she comes across.

R56 PJ is far more musically talented that Patti ever could be, though. Patti is in truth basically a spoken word artist--she isn't really a musician.

"Haters are idiots."

Oh shut up, asshole. Not everybody worships Patti Smith. One critic called her "the most pretentious artist in the history of music." And that is so true.

And R59, your binary 'hate or love' idiom is puerile.

One (unnamed or sourced) critic? Oh, well, we must all agree then!

Inane person. Have you ever performed any form of music in your life?

She dates Ralph Fiennes. Take that bitches.

She hated Debbie Harry - who had talent, brains - and beauty.

"Inane person. Have you ever performed any form of music in your life?"

Have YOU? If you worship Patti Smith as an exceptional "musician" I seriously doubt you ever have. You wouldn't know good music if it bit you on the ass.

R63 = a trollette who refuses to answer a question with anything other than a repeat of said question is an empty glass. Admit you have no musical skill or knowledge.

Also, R63, the dullard, thinks only in binary choices; "worship" vs detestation or dismissal; another sign of stupidity.

Play some Billie Eilish to calm yourself. You're very angry.

She's hardly punk rock nor was she ever. Her heyday was the early 70s. She's genuine and authentic and kind. But DLers prefer fake and mean.

R64 is in love with Patti Smith. Admit that you are in love with her and are totally ignorant of what constitutes musicianship and talent.

Also, R64, the simpleton, cannot comprehend that there are others in the world who do not share his love of Smith, another sigh of his mental impairment.

Have a nice cup of cocoa to settle your overwrought nerves. It is obvious you're very upset to hear criticism of your beloved (who, incidentally doesn't know or care that you are alive).

Still a badass.

R66 = more exemplary sociopathic behavior. R66 can only mimic others' more astute critiques.

R66 is angry that anyone likes a musician completely unfamiliar to him/her (most likely male, due to the vehement anger displayed).

R66 has no understanding that one can appreciate Patti Smith, as well as a wide range of other musicians not in her genre.

R66 is a hollow dullard, a feckless dog gnawing on a textual chew toy.

She was a big supporter of gay culture back in the 70s. Friends with Mapplethorpe and Ginsburg. Also hung out with Warhol and his trannies.

R68 is obviously pathological, crazy a totally nut bag. Also as intelligent as a clump of dog hair, although trying very, VERY hard to seem "smart." And in love with Patti Smith. Crazy as a bedbug, that one.

R65 you obviously don't know that Pu nk originated in New York on the early/mid 70s. She's often credited as the first punk rocker and was featured in the Village Voice article that coined the phrase in 1975.

"She's hardly punk rock nor was she ever. "

You must know absolutely nothing about her. She was called "the Punk Poet Laureate" and "the Godmother of Punk" and the "princess of piss’", "the keeper of the phlegm", "the wild mustang of rock ‘n’ roll’." She'd spit onstage and simulate fellatio on the guitar of her bandmate. Oh, she was punk, alright. But for some reason she now says she wasn't: "But I was not really a punk, and my band was never a punk rock band.” That's utter bullshit. She was a major part of the punk rock scene back then. Maybe she doesn't think it's "cool" to have been a punk rocker. If there's one thing Patti Smith cares about it's looking "cool."

R29 one things for sure. Patti Smith doesn't give a fuck what you think of her appearance.

That's why she pisses people off still. She genuinely does what she wants, when she wants and doesn't care about anyone's opinion.

I remember she played at the Vatican a few years ago and everyone, including her own fans got in a twist over it. She said in an interview "Here's the thing... I wanted to so I did. " No apologies.

Patti Smith does not claim to be a musician or even a very good singer. Just a passionate and enthusiastic amateur. That, she says, is what punk was about. She is a disciplined and talented writer, and was awarded a National Book Prize in 2010 for Just Kids. She is no homophobe-- several gay men have been very important in her life. Jean Genet, William Burroughs, Alan Ginsberg, Robert Mapplethorpe to name a few. And yes, people are entitled to dislike her music, her singing, her writing, her style of dress, her hair, her Jersey Girl manner of speech, but as [R29] says, she doesn't give a fuck what you think, nor does she need to.

Has anyone read her latest memoir, Year of the Monkey?

I've read the two recent memoirs and was surprised to see another released so soon.

My favorite TV performance of hers. She wrote it for her husband and performed it at his funeral apparently.

It always meant a lot to me that she made no apologies for not being typical. She was always an outsider. Even as a kid.

I saw her perform and, through friends, met her several times around 1978-79 (my first years of university.) The other performer I saw in the same period and with equal frequency was Elvis Costello. Both have terrific performances each time. Smith was alternately shy/awkward and loud/gregarious in the nervous way of the former, but surprisingly charming and attentive, remembering having met me before. Despite liking some of her music and excellent, electric performances and an odd, endearing (and surprising) kindness in speaking briefly a few times, her later commemoration of her legacy seemed a little much - whether her fault or how it was reported, and the "legend" stuff didn't appeal to me. Better to remember her powerful, raw, broken voice than to read too neatly spun stories of the Chelsea Hotel days and Mapplethorpe and the rest.

I think artists and writers and actors and musicians often get lost in scandals and legends and folklore. I'll say that Smith, like the rest, is better remembered for her best work than for repeated tales of her work - for a few seering songs that, I think, still resonate on some level.

She was most definitely gay icon and a punk (you guys know what the fucking word Punk means right?) She hung out with the gay musical slum dwellers during the AIDS years. She wrote "Death Singing" about Benjamin Smoke just before he died. It's weird to me that younger gays are so ignorant of their cultural heritage.

"She dates Ralph Fiennes. Take that bitches."

Where did you hear THAT? I recall some article mentioning "her friend Ralph Fiennes" but that hardly constitutes them "dating." I find it hard to believe. Fiennes is a pussyhound, but it's hard to believe he would hit THAT, unless he was really slumming. Anyway, he's no prize, either. He lost his looks long ago. He's an aging baldy now.

They might be. But probably not.

"(Smith) was awarded a National Book Prize in 2010 for Just Kids.

While R66/R70 could barely finish reading a David Sedaris 40-page book.

Gilda Radner’s Patti Smith was fucking spectacular.

She stumbles in at about 3:45 and holds the screen until she collapses.

As much as I like Patti Smith, I think Gilda Radner was the rarer talent.

From the video in R1: "I think of myself as an illuminated apprentice."

...and I'm out.

[quote]Her version of Because the Night is one of the greatest recordings ever made. It wasn't even a top ten hit.

The other version by 10,000 Maniacs was much better

She never dated Debbie Harry. The fuck

One of her more recent songs "Constantine's Dream" is one of the most lyrically complex and epic things every recorded.

R86, do you know who did that sort of thing with more slap dash? Good old junkie Nico.

r86 Baaahaahaahaa! No.

I admire her commitment to that hairstyle.

Thanks OP for posting this!! I love Patti and have for years. I’m so glad to have seen this.

"If only there was a way to read a brief biography on Patti Smith."

You should read "Mapplethorpe" by Patricia Morrisroe. The information on her in that book is kind of a mini-biography of her. It interestingly touches on Smith's relationship with her husband Fred Smith. After becoming involved with him she completely deferred to him. He was the boss in the relationship; she really calmed down and became more stable once they became involved. She had previously no qualms at all about being naked in front of anybody, but after she became his girlfriend she suddenly became demure and "affected an air of modesty that old friends of hers found hard to accept." The book stated that Jim Carroll recalled "when he and Sam Shepard visited her backstage after a poetry reading she made a big issue of telling them to leave the room so she could slip off her jeans." Carroll said "It wasn't like we hadn't seen her naked before, and after some of the stuff she used to pull at the Chelsea the whole virginal thing seemed pretty ridiculous to me." Yes, she went through a personality change after becoming involved with Fred Smith and after marrying him she disappeared for years, evidently content to be a wife and mother (they had two kids). If Fred Smith hadn't died she may have remained in that life, but he died prematurely. After his death, she started getting back into promoting herself again and slipped back into her pretentious, self-absorbed "artist" mode, in which she remains to this day.

Never read Just Kids, but I actually really liked M Train. I know there are some who probably roll their eyes at the thought of a book comprising her offhand musings about coffee and Hurricane Sandy and The Killing and Fred Smith and all her favorite artists, but there was something very serene about it. It was kind of tonic to read in the age of Trump.

"Yes, she went through a personality change after becoming involved with Fred Smith and after marrying him she disappeared for years, evidently content to be a wife and mother (they had two kids)."

How do these people support themselves when they "disappear"??? It's not like either of their back catalogs sold that well. 99.999% of Americans don't even know who Fred Smith is.

R93 He was a professional sound engineer.

She became part of the Mary Kay team, r93.

I have a hunch Patti still has the first nickel she ever made. Not a living large, show biz type, our gal.

I admit to liking Patti's music a lot; she was a pioneer of the genre that didn't necessarily welcome women. Kind of a tough old broad even back then. Not real easy on the eyes though.

"Not a living large, show biz type, our gal."

Oh, come on. She's very well off. A recent article mentioned her "Jimmy Choo boots" and "delicate Cartier ring." With her slovenly hair and lack of fashion sense she looks like a homeless person, but she lives quite large.

She didn’t seem pretentious in the Jimmy Fallon interview.

However, it was fucking Jimmy Fallon. What pretensions can you hold while sitting on the. Hair?

That's quite clearly James May OP.

I met her once. She's very charismatic and quite funny. I got the feeling she takes no shit. I liked her.

She was poor after Fred died. He died of cancer and had huge medical bills. Michael Stipe tracked her down and gave her a fuck ton of money and also the vocal line and resulting royalties from " E-Bow The Letter because she'd inspired him to be a rock star as a kid.. Weird Karma for her.

Yeah, I didn't get the impression from M Train that she's amazingly wealthy or anything. I don't know how she would be. She lives a pretty spartan lifestyle and writes books, makes records, and tours when she needs to.

I’ve been a fan since her first album and stopped following her when she took a break to raise her family but I want to say that there are few recording artists as adventurous, singular and poetic as Patti Smith.

"Yeah, I didn't get the impression from M Train that she's amazingly wealthy or anything. I don't know how she would be. "

She's very well off due to her book deals. And of course she makes money from appearances, speaking engagements, concerts, whatever. She may not LOOK rich but she IS rich.

So? Do you demand she live in poverty because she wrote a bestselling award-winning book and makes music you don't like?

You already hate her because of her looks, you weasel.

Unlike most people in our cell phone, Amazon driven, bland world, she's unique and could give 2 f**ks what people think. One thing left that's worth admiring.

"You already hate her because of her looks, you weasel."

Oh, shut you, you dumb cluck. Nobody ever "demanded she live in poverty." It's just not accurate that she lives modestly. She doesn't. She's rich and lives well. And nobody expressed hatred for her because of her looks, either. You're very touchy about her. You must love her.

R108,

You can't prove her wealth, so STFU about that.

You didn't glance up-thread at the hateful comments about her looks, so STFU.

You're obsessed with claiming I'm "in love" with a woman. No, queen. STFU.

If sneering at a complete stranger's opinions about a famous singer/writer makes you feel smart or superior, you must have a very fragile ego.

But do STFU. No one cares about your opinions, and you know it.

[quote] She seems like a nice person, but she was rude to Joan Jett and her band-mates, and to Debbie Harry in the past.

She didn’t like other women. She wanted to be the only girl in the boys’ club.

Not very punk rock of her.

R109,

She's had several successful books and gets paid top money for appearances. So STFU about her living a modest little life. She's a celebrity, dummy.

Comments on her unfortunate looks doesn't constitute hatred, it's just stating the truth. So STFU, you silly twat.

Your defense of her does suggest you have an abiding love for her. So STFU, you pitiful fangurl.

This is DATALOUNGE, honey. It's open season on celebrities here and if criticism of your beloved Patti tears your heart then maybe you should find somewhere else to hang out.

Obviously YOU care deeply about my opinions, hence your huffy post. Well, I'm just flattered that you care so much. But please do STFU, anyway.

R111, still angry, unhinged, mincing and preening in a sad attempt to act superior. You've typed nothing but your unsourced presumptions and vague snark.

"She's a celebrity, so she must be rich."

Your oceans of ignorance are a fetid flood of fecal flotsam.

"Oceans of ignorance are a fetid flood of fecal flotsam?" If that doesn't prove R112 is a fruitcake I don't know what does.

I don't want to get into this catfight.

Online sources (to be taken skeptically, but still) peg Patti's net worth somewhere around $16 million.

Not shabby, Pats.

Of course she's rich. Anybody who doesn't know that must be pretty ignorant of how much money celebrities make.

"fruitcake," R113? Homophobic cunt-licker much?

OP Pattie Shit?

I’m going to call it now — more posts in favor of Patti. I would argue it’s 60/40 in her favor on DL, and some don’t even care for her work but simply recognize the mark she made on the music timeline is all. Like her stuff or not, she is noteworthy and if you don’t understand yet, do go read.

She’s wonderful and her book “Just Kids”is heart breaking in its tenderness and honesty. It’s also beautifully written. She is not a lesbian- clearly some on this thread don’t know much about her. No she is not your usual entertainer. She really is an artist.

"fruitcake," [R113]? Homophobic cunt-licker much?"

Have you ever heard the expression "nuttier than a fruitcake?" I guess not. Anyway, the word was used in that context. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, dummy.

Have you ever heard the expressions, "Shut the fuck up, you smug pompous asshole?" Probably every day on your way to work as you babble on talking to yourself.

"Have you ever heard the expressions, "Shut the fuck up, you smug pompous asshole?"

Only on Datalounge from moronic cretins like you.

Spiraling downward, R122, the venomous Patti hater screeches at passersby while foraging for trash. Sad.

Oh, give it a rest, R123. You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself. Please try to have SOME self respect.

R124: "I MUST have the last word! Because I"M right! Always! Patti Smith is ugly and RICH! How DARE she!?"

She's the consummate artist.

LOVE her! Especially considering she started out in a New Jersey cardboard factory.

I would like to know why ignorant gays on DL consider Patti Smith to have been an ugly chick. Even in bad photos she was "handsome" when young.

Robert was of course prettier but Patti was OK. She had allure. She got odder looking in her late 40s.

She looks like she could be Tarantino’s sister.

she always has a bright, alive face

She was hot enough to have an affair with the young Sam Shepard.

YUMMERS!

OMG, they were Studio 54, Ramrod pretty.

Loved the Matt Smith portrayal that got very little play.

Bad wigs.

Patti obviously got her share of Grade A lLower East Side Art Fag COCK. At least as much as Madonna!

Rode Tom Verlaine's big veiny dong! I used to JO looking at Tom.

"Hotness" had nothing to do with her and Sam Shepard getting together. They just ran in the same circles. And of course drugs were involved. And it was the seventies; everybody fucked everybody back then.

It's well known that Patti Smith always disliked good looking women. It was obviously jealousy. LOOK at her. She was NOT an attractive woman, with that scraggly hair and witchy face. I've heard straight guys comment on her looks and what they invariably say is that she's ugly.

Sam was quite a slut himself then. Joni M wrote "Coyote" about hooking up with him during the Rolling Thunder tour. And he was married all through the 70s.

Pretty sure Patti had a thing with Todd Rundgren as well, to add to the list.

Yes ask a douche in flyoverstan if they would fuck young Patti Smith, punk rock goddesse, and they would say no. It's an acquired aesthetic you philistine.

Awful singer and performer benefitted from the insular nyc naval gazing music biz /mediia machine. Her husband had a big dick.

[quote]naval gazing

You don't say.

I believe she wrote this when Mapplethorpe's lover Sam Wagstaff died from AIDS complications.

I was looking at Sam’s wife O’Lan, whom I’ve never heard of before. Anyone know their backstory? She looks like quite the character too! Her face is relatively pretty....until she smiles.

So....Patti, O’Lan, and then our JESSICA??? I’m actually impressed by how eclectic his taste in women is!

R141 O-Lan played the crazy (and iconic) religious zealot neighbor in Edward Scissorhands