Looking for "Looking for Mr Goodbar"

It's almost impossible to find Looking for Mr. Goodbar (no pun intended) . But I did find it on YouTube. Not the best quality, but it's better than nothing.

Great, wild, gritty film. Rough around the edges in a good way. Highly recommended!

What about Cruising? Haven't seen that in ages...was it Al Pacino? God, I'm getting old.

"LFMG" has, supposedly, somehow fallen into the "public domain." Which means anybody with a videocassette or DVD copy can make copies of those copies and sell them on their own for profit.

Which, apparently, is what someone is / was doing on eBay, last time I looked, at $9.99 a pop. No guarantees on the quality of said copies, OP.

I'd be surprised if Goodbar fell into the public domain, but the music clearances must be very expensive

A couple of years back they showed it on TCM and that was the first time I had seen it, so maybe that will happen again at some point. The film was good and Keaton was terrific, but I think the scarcity of this film has made it seem more intriguing than it actually is. The music is perfect and very reflective of the time, but on the other hand, it's likely the music that has kept it locked in limbo all these years.

OP, have you seen The French Connection? It is set in NYC.

Looking for Mr. Goodbar is one of the bleakest films I've ever seen. The ending terrified me when I saw it, and I had a fear of strobe lights for months afterward.

I think the overall hopeless tone of the film and the shocking and gruesome final sequence has kept the film from receiving the praise it really deserves.

It was well received in its time. It just had a very short shelf life.

They did release it on VHS.

It's on YouTube. Don't watch. Keaton's pussy is bad enough a sight, but you can never unsee Gere dancing around in a jockstrap. It will ruin jockstraps for you, for ever.

1974's "The Conversation". A terrific movie.

R11 OH YEAH! The Conversation is Hackman and Cazale at their absolute best! And that little walk-on part of Harrison Ford's! What a bleak ending -- Gotta check that one out again...

The Out-of-Towners (1970)

The Taking of Pelham One Two Three (1974)

The Owl and the Pussycat

Serpico

The Goodbye Girl (1977) is set in NYC. It’s more cute than gritty, but it does have that New York City feel.

In real life, the woman lived on 72nd between Broadway and West End Avenue, across the street from the bar where she met her killer. Bruce Willis had been a bartender there long before the murder. After her death the place changed its name.

R13 The Taking of Pelham One Two Three -- Definitely the 1974 version. Great ending! (The remake was a disaster.)

Ms. 45 looks like Taxi Driver, unfiltered. It is from 1980.

I read the book but never saw the movie. I heard the movie was MUCH grittier than the book and had a different ending. No idea if that's true.

The problem with Looking for Mr. Goodbar is that although set in 70s NYC, it was filmed here - I believe it was filmed in Toronto. And it shows. She's great though.

But there are tons of other gritty NYC-filmed movies from the 60s-70s. The Detective, The Anderson Tapes, and An Unmarried Women come to mind.

Fort Apache the Bronx.

Wolfen has some great footage of the "old" South Bronx.

Don't forget Dog Day Afternoon. You'll love the NYC atmosphere and the gritty ending. All those New Yorkers in the scenes outside the bank. Hilarious. ATTICA! ATTICA!

Rosemary's Baby had great NY locations. It's a 1968 movie but it still holds up scary-wise.

[quote]The problem with Looking for Mr. Goodbar is that although set in 70s NYC, it was filmed here - I believe it was filmed in Toronto. And it shows. She's great though.

No, it was filmed in Chicago (cheaper than NYC). It often looks cheaply made. Some of the sets look like they're going to fall down.

Keaton's the one who brings the quality and it's her film.

And the soundtrack which I bought then and still have it fantastic...every single song.

This is a nice version of the theme song.

[quote]But there are tons of other gritty NYC-filmed movies from the 60s-70s. The Detective, The Anderson Tapes, and An Unmarried Women come to mind.

Unmarried Woman gritty?

R24 Toots Thieleman -- The theme from Midnight Cowboy. Oh God. It makes me cry every time.

This film more or less introduced me to Bill Withers.

Un unmarried woman is a good one. But watch out for Alan Bates. He's so FUCKING SEXY he will ruin you forever. You'll never find anyone attractive again

There. Daddy is at the end

Unmarried WOman is another film that was big at the time and swiftly forgotten (apart from on here).

Many of the best films of the 70s seem to have been poorly represented in the DVD era and are hard to find.

"Diary Of A Mad Housewife" was one the the best 70s NYC movies...and never on DVD.

They were movies made for ADULTS.

OP here, thanks for suggestions...

1) I have seen The Conversation and I thought it takes place in SF...mistaken?

2) I have seen Midnight Cowboy, French Connection and Dog Day Afternoon many times and rank them highly for the atmosphere and gloom I am seeking!

3) I remember seeing Goodbye Girl, Diary of a Mad Housewife and An Unmarried Woman closer to their release times and not being interested in a rewatch, but will consider.

5) will check out Pelham 1, 2, 3, Owl and Pussycat, The Detective.

6) HOW DID I NOT FIND MR GOODBAR ON YOUTUBE? I SWEAR I LOOKED AND FOUND ONLY CLIPS! Thanks, it's starting now...

Goodbar is worth it just to see Richard Gere in a jockstrap.

. . . and I really do mean see . . .

^ hawt!

LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR is certainly worth visiting again, it's based on a true incident detailed in a book titled CLOSING TIME.

The theme of the story is relevant today, the same things are reported on the news.

A couple of big names today first gained recognition from the film LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR.

Does Netflix still have the DVD option? That’s how I watched LFMG ten years ago. I went through a gritty 70’s period and watched a lot of these mentioned in this thread. Also in the mishaps of 70’s swinging singles theme are Klute and Play Misty for Me.

It's a sad and disturbing film, and knowing the real story behind it makes it even more sad and disturbing. I saw the film originally in my teens on TV and then again a few years back since I wanted to see if I remembered the shocking end correctly. Can't say I ever want to return to that bleakness ever again.

You're right, R31. THE CONVERSATION was set in SF. Funny how memory play tricks.

Some great suggestions here for 1970s gritty NYC movies. Love LFMG - since I first saw it as a 12 year old in the 80s. Klute is good too.

For more gritty 70s NYC, check out [bold]Klute[/bold], [bold]Mean Streets[/bold], [bold]Andy Warhol's Trash[/bold] and [bold]The Panic in Needle Park[/bold].

An Unmarried Woman isn't necessarily gritty, but it does show some of the old Soho before it became a tourist mecca. And the vomit scene.

~The vomit scene was TRUE grit.

The first giveaway that New York films are not shot here are the subways. Slapping a white letter "A" in the middle of blue circle on front of first car in Toronto doesn't cut it. First noticed this in "Babycakes," a 1989 made-for-TV movie when Ricki Lake fell in love with a subway worker,

Also, the streets in Toronto have fewer needles, used condoms, fast food wrappers, discarded pizza crusts, and Starbucks lids.

I used to have a VHS copy, but I have no idea what happened to it over the years.

I'm not sure what the point is of Looking for Mr. Goodbar. If the supposedly perfect but deeply fucked up boyfriend had killed her, it would have made sense. If the unstable quasi-criminal boyfriend had killed her, it would have made sense. Even if the douchey professor she was fucking had killed her, it would have made sense. But some random dude we meet in the last scene and don't give a fuck about? What's the point of that? I understand it was based on a real case, but the whole point of narrative is to bring shape and purpose to the chaotic randomness of real life, not recreate it.

I thought a young and beautiful Meryl would have been great in this but she might not have agreed to bare her boobs.

I have never been able to locate the spare, haunting torchy version of the theme song ("Don't Ask To Stay Until Tomorrow") that played over the opening credits and was sung by Marlena Shaw. Only this disco-ish version that was commercially released. Any help would be appreciated.

It's on YouTube, R47

`Oops, sorry that's the same version as you posted.

I'll check my vinyl copy to see if it's on there.

No, it's not on the LP. Sorry.

Three Days of the Condor

According to Wikipedia:

"Goodbar" author Judith Rossner "detested" the film, although she praised Keaton's performance. Rossner added, "I feel like the mother who delivered her 13-year-old daughter to the door of Roman Polanski and didn't know what was going to happen."

She grew to value the film because SO MANY people told her they thought it was good. There's an interview online.

Serpico with young Al Pacino was a gritty NYC story. Treat Williams in Prince of the City is another.

Hello R45, there were many ways in which the film was interpreted. There was a variety of different points that viewers, the NYPD, the author, and critics felt LFMGB made.

Some felt the movie made a point that women shouldn't live on their own or have their own lives or pick up men. I vaguely remember reading some NYPD response that put the blame on the victim Theresa Dunn, that if she hung out in a bar she deserved to get slashed / raped.

Others felt the point of the movie was that one never really knows anyone, even people one works with . You might work with a kind, patient, friendly, hard-working, professional teacher like Theresa Dunn during the day, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have another side to her. Maybe she's picking up guys, getting kinky and hanging out drinking every night.

Just my opinion, but I think another point of the movie is one never knows who a random one-night-stand is. Picking up a stranger for a one-night stand is a crap shoot. Theresa met lots of men in the bars, she slept with lots of guys, some she had volatile relationships with, even though they others were all a bit weird they weren't physically dangerous, but then one night she randomly picked up a the wrong guy and he killed her.

I also vaguely remember that either in real life or in the novel that the guy who killed her was living with his boyfriend. His boyfriend may have been teasing him, which lead him to try and prove how "straight" he was by picking up Theresa at the bar.

One of my favorite "bleak, gritty 70s New York" movies is 1971's all-but-forgotten "Born to Win". George Segal as a junkie hairdresser, young Hector Elizondo as his dealer who's also pimping out Segal's junkie wife (Paula Prentiss), young Robert DeNiro as an undercover cop, and Karen Black as the "straight" girl who for some reason falls in love with Segal. It's in the public domain, and there are several uploads on Youtube.

Because the ending of Goodbar was so well known before the movie was released, the focus changed into a guessing game as to who was going to kill her. Probably why the men are all so creepy and of course, LeVar is a suspect because.....well, you know why.

I thought "Looking For Mr. Goodbar" was so-so. The most effective part of it was the ending. It's probably one of the most frightening, hard to watch scenes in movie history.

The movie was based on a novel which was based on the real life murder of a woman named Roseann Quinn. She was raised Catholic, limped because of childhood scoliosis, and taught deaf children. Unable to form meaningful relationships with men she relieved her loneliness by picking up guys in bars and inviting them to her place for sex. Before she was murdered she'd already been roughed up a few times by one of her lovers. Then on New Year's she picked up a guy named John Wayne Wilson. Very mentally disturbed, he was being kept by a gay guy who was letting him stay at his place (they were lovers, although Wilson didn't consider himself gay). Supposedly the night of the murder Wilson couldn't get aroused enough to fuck Quinn and she berated him for it, causing him to go into a rage and stab her to death. The violence turned him on and he was finally able to fuck her...after she was dead. His gay fuck buddy informed police where he was and he was arrested. He hanged himself in prison before going to trial. The fuck buddy felt so guilty he tried to commit suicide but he survived. In addition to all this Wilson had impregnated a teenage girl and they had vague ambitions to build a life together. She later gave birth to his child; it was stillborn. If this story could have gotten more depressing I don't know how.

I used to teach school and could never go cruising and drinking all night and then do that job the next day. She must’ve had the constitution of an ox.

Serpico, - Pacino in the early 70s NYC.

Midnight Cowboy

R58, compliments. You summed it up pretty succinctly.

I know that the library at Eglin AFB in Niceville, FL had a VHS copy 19 years ago.

R58 There’s a heartbreaking scene where the principal forces her in sign language to tell the children why she didn’t show up for school one day when she was hung over and had overslept.

R56 I saw BORN TO WIN recently for the first time and agree with you. Not a great film, but a fascinating one, and a great time capsule of the era and the city.

I loved the scene where he was trapped in the dryer and just kept laughing.

And the ambiguous, doomed(?) ending.

I have a VHS copy which I bought way back in the early '90s when I was in high school. I became really intrigued with this film when they aired it on a Buffalo channel. It was heavily edited but the ending was still very shocking. I was really haunted by this movie.

A few years ago, I was lucky enough to find the soundtrack on CD. I found it in a used store for $5! I even told the sales clerk "Do you realize how rare this is?"

A few years ago, it was on tTunes in HD. It looked great. Sadly it was taken of iTunes. So, there is an HD master floating around somewhere.

As for the film itself, it still remains quite an experience. But, yes, it has dated quite a bit. Brooks tries too hard to show how liberated Theresa is (ooh, look, she's watching a porno movie! Ooh, look, she has naked people on her lamps!) There's a lot of overacting from the supporting cast, particularly Kiley, Berenger, Atherton, Gere and Feinstein, even occasionally, Weld (who was Oscar-nominated). So many of the family scenes are like they are from a bad Broadway play - so much shouting.

But I can't say enough good things about Keaton's performance. She won the Oscar for the wrong role. I think this is one of Keaton's most revelatory performances. She grounds the picture with her sensitive, nuanced performance. Like the scene where she's in her apartment for the first night. You can sense the loneliness and pain of Theresa. Every scene, Keaton captures Teresa's need for love and affection and how damaged she is. It's a very intimate performance of a complicated character. I really like Roger Ebert's review of the film as he compares the Theresa from the book to the Theresa from the film and how Brooks failed to capture Theresa's sadomasochistic, death wish impulses. I think he makes a good point, although I think Keaton still suggests the deeper impulses of her character and that damaged Theresa seems to seek out abusive men.

The cinematography is brilliant and William A. Fraker was justifiably nominated for Best Cinematography at the Oscars.

Like Saturday Night Fever, it really captures the allure and darkness of disco.

"Diary of A Mad Housewife" is a grim portrait of suburban living in NYC in the seventies. I re-read the novel it was based on recently. I'd recommend it, it's still a great read.

The 70s were really a Lynchpin from the radical 60s to the neocon 80s of Reagan I can’t watch these movies, they are too grim and feel we’re in a very bad place in American

Warriors is a lurid but amazing look at a slightly souped-up science-fictiony 1970s New York.

Interiors is not gritty - in fact, far from it - but also captures something about the period that I think no other film managed to do - a sense of impasse.

While Tootsie was released in 1982 it really caught the tail-end of the '70s with a comic portrait of New York as an ongoing nervous breakdown of sorts with everyone damaged, stressed-out or just plain nuts.

[quote] If this story could have gotten more depressing I don't know how.

The story was made into a movie...that inspired a Madonna video...

See, things can ALWAYS be more depressing.

[quote] If this story could have gotten more depressing I don't know how.

The story was made into a movie...that inspired a Madonna video...

See, things can ALWAYS be more depressing.

This might seem a bit dumb, but can anyone explain the title? Was the candy bar around back then? I seem to remember that it was. Is it a line in the movie? I understand she's looking for a good time in a bar - is that really all it means?

Please explain or analyze the Madonna bad girl video featuring Christopher walken posted at r70, r71

George Segal was such a bad actor. So mannered and self-conscious. He ruins most things he's in. His style is PRE-70s. He's very bad in "Loving" which is a NYC movie from this period.

He's equally annoying and sucks the life out of Blume In Love. Here he is pretending to dance. But he feels silly. So do we who have to watch him.

"Bad Lieutenant" came out in 1992 but has a gritty NYC feel and is a semi-hopeless story.

"Paris Is Burning," 1990, gritty, NYC, semi-hopeless as well.

R72, IIRC, the bar (drinking establishment) in the movie was named "Mr. Goodbar" and was named after the chocolate candy bar.

Shaft and most Blaxploitation movies

Does anyone in New York do a walking tour of famous bars and clubs where victims met their murders like her and the preppy murderer and Joey Commale and others?

“Death Wish” (1974) with Charles Bronson and Vincent Gardenia is certainly gritty and lurid.

Those bad-mouthing George Segal don't appreciate how hot he was in the 1970s and how easily he played off women, unlike say Burt Reynolds. I think it was his quitting 10 that ended his run of hits.

R80 he was so likeable and had such an easy kind of charm. I have no idea what that poster is going on about.

Loved him in Flirting with Disaster, too.

An Unmarried Woman has many gritty scenes apart from the famous vomiting one. I love the scene in the taxi after a lunch with a blind date when Jill Clayburgh goes ballistic on a man making a pass at her.

[quote]Those bad-mouthing George Segal don't appreciate how hot he was in the 1970s

+

[quote]he was so likeable and had such an easy kind of charm.

=

Doth not a good actor make.

He was mannered and self-conscious. A BAD actor.

[quote]An Unmarried Woman has many gritty scenes apart from the famous vomiting one. I love the scene in the taxi after a lunch with a blind date when Jill Clayburgh goes ballistic on a man making a pass at her.

The scene in the cab was gritty?

There were a few scenes shot on the dirty decrepit streets of '70s SoHo - that doth NOT gritty make. And even on those days there were fancy boutiques, galleries, bars and such springing up all over the place. I was THERE. A kiddie, but I was there.

Two years ago (or so), the Film Forum ran a series on NYC 70s movies. OP, most of these have already been mentioned, but if you look through the list, there are a few other good ones you should consider.

They followed up with a series on NYC 70s comedies last year.

Correction: The Film Forum's 2nd series featured 70s comedies, but they were not necessarily set in NYC.

"Diary Of A Mad Housewife" was one the the best 70s NYC movies...and never on DVD."

Frank Langella was so hot in that movie.

& such a cunt ►

I'm Dancing As Fast As I Can with Jill Claybourgh. As someone already said, Panic In Needle Park. Ugh was that depressing.

Okay bitches. I watched ' goodbar' in my tweeties and thought it was a good movie with a very interesting character, being a survivor of a very bad accident myself with large scars all over my body, I completely related to the need to be appreciated for the body alone. Random sexual encounters, pushing the limits. Not wanting to be a casualty of your childhood but endangering yourself even more as a consequence , being slutty, being angry, angry against your body, angry against God. I know all that. It is one of the only movies that addresses that kind of situation, alond with ' crash' by Cronenberg. I was even grateful for that movie. It worked as a warning for me. That being said, I watched it again last year.. I am 50 now. The most moving scene was the one with Tuesday Weld IMO. I really think Tuesday gave a fantastic performance in the movie. I have known these ' liberated 'upper middle-class pretty women when I was a kid in the 70's. They were exactly like that. Fucked up, fooled by the' 'sexual freedom' ' bullshit, objectified by their assholes husband, bitter and traumatized beneath the glittering surface. Richard Gere in the dancing in a jockstrap scene was... I wish I could unsee that. Grotesque. Some things should definitely stay locked in the 70's. Can you imagine today, a A-lister prancing in a jockstrap in a Oscar selected movie?? I absolutely cannot remember the ending of the movie. I know she's killed, but I can't remember the scene. And I thought Keaton was annoying. Funny how she was EVERYTHING in the 70's. I don't like her now. Even in Annie Hall I find her limited and pretentious. Time works in a funny way.

The book and the movie also were an indictment of traditional Catholicism. Theresa's character was both liberating herself and punishing herself. The whole family was fucked up because of their religion.

There was a film made about the search for the Goodbar killer, starring, guess who?... DL fave George Segal (so don't expect too much).

Trackdown: Finding the Goodbar Killer (1983)

r8, You know it's based on a true murder, right?

Hate when movies are held captive by music rights. I don't know what these people are thinking. These movies are not going to make a fortune on DVD/Bluray so asking for ridiculous amounts just hurts everyone.

Digression: Rossner added, "I feel like the mother who delivered her 13-year-old daughter to the door of Roman Polanski and didn't know what was going to happen."

Suuuure, Jan.

"Born to Win" is free with Amazon Prime.

I love this thread. Thanks, OP! Old New York from the days of tenements at the turn of the last century until the 1970’s fascinates me. There’s a novel “Call It Sleep” by Henry Roth about a little boy’s impressions of the lower east side and his immigrant Jewish parents/neighbors that is one of my favorite novels. Pre 1970’s, of course, but very gritty and haunting. Whenever I go to NY I walk around and try to imagine what it must’ve been like a hundred years ago. I was watching “The Deuce” because the sets are like a time machine.

The book "Closing Time" relates the true story...

Have you seen Hester Street, R97...that's on YT.

Madonna (sorry to mention her) paid homage to it in the video for 'Bad Girl' from the Erotica album. I've tried to look for the film, the most I could find was the swedish dubbed version on youtube.

I wonder if some of the actors feel embarrassed about it considering the nudity and violence. You never hear them discuss it. The bonus features for a Blu-Ray would be great- all those commentaries from Keaton, Gere, Berenger, Burton. Will never happen but would be nice.

Yes... I've been looking around online for what the title "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" is referencing, but I can't find anything. I assume the answer is in Judith Rossner's original novel.

Was it some slang term popular at the time?

I've seen the film several times and don't remember it being explained.

I LOL at Keaton who was the only cast member of ' Hair' who wouldn't disrobe for the audience of a small theater for an extra 50$, but showed pussy to the entire world for goodbar and a hefty 💵. Every body has their price in Hollywood.

What was the connection between the Auntie Mame kid and the "Diary of a Mad Housewife" novel?

Goodbar is a disturbing but interesting movie and I agree it is a fantastic performance by Keaton. So many little things she does that help to define that character. Quite brilliant - one of her best.

Hi, OP again, appreciating the lists and other suggestions.

Are we SURE that was DK's lady bits or was a body double employed? Seems likely.

Was this the last time DK exposed skin? She's covered head to toe most of the time. I think she, like Nora Ephron, is sorry about her neck.

R97---I think I read "Call It Sleep" in the 80s but feel unsure if I finished it---very grim. I live on the top floor of my building and share stairs and a small landing with another tenant. I always think about tenements when they've roasted Brussels sprouts and I can smell them. Brings to mind squalid buildings where people are boiling cabbage all the time. (Dramatic!)

[R103] There would be a difference for me personally between exposing myself to a professional crew and fellow cast for the duration of a shoot and doing so in front of a live audience for however many times the play performed.

I'd be more comfortable with the former, regardless of how many people saw the film.

R205, that slut exposed herself again In ' somethings got to give ' or whatnot

Death Wish is really a right-wing anti-liberal movie. It was a key cultural turning point setting the stage for Reaganism.

R108, actually, the Dirty Harry movies were the catalyst. Eastwood even included a Rose Bird prototype.

At the time the movie was made she had it in her contact that no nude stills from the film would be published. That's what I heard at the time.

Go to 2:00 in this interview.

One of the rare times Diane talks about Goodbar in an interview.

I torrented a VHS rip of the film. The quality was obviously poor. I wish it would be re-released in high quality. Maybe Criterion will release it in the future?

I loved the beginning montage of pictures taken of people in NY bars and clubs. It took you to that gritty, sleazy, 70s NYC from the onset. I was also pleasantly surprised at Richard Gere's acting. I thought he was very convincing. The ending was haunting. I had read/ heard how dark the ending was but seeing it was something else. The scene between Keaton and her killer at the end stayed with me long after the credits rolled.

R102 Found this from link:

"I actually just finished this book yesterday (haven't seen the movie yet) and in the book, Mr. Goodbar is simply the name of the bar where she meets her fatal one night stand partner. "Mr. Goodbar" is only mentioned in the last 20 pages of the book or so, there are no references to her stealing the candy bars or to her looking for a Mr. Goodbar (or, a.k.a "Mr. Right"). It does say, however, that the bar has one wall that is covered in the candy bar wrappers. Hope I explained that ok, it's my first time posting!"

By the way, not sure if anyone knows how to torrent but if you do, you can download the movie here...

{R112} Having thought about it, the title does make sense - she's looking for momentary pleasure, rather than a relationship - she's treating sex as candy. Plus the name of the candy is suggestive of a bleak double-entendre - obviously the bars she frequents but the idea of a "bar" as phallic. (Plus the actual candy bar has nuts).

R111 I love how she always talks about her movies in the most unselfimportant way — like yeah, so whatever I made that movie a thousand years ago what’s it to ya? That’s supposedly why she’s never gone on Inside the Actors Studio, though I wish she had.

[R115] She didn't really big herself up much, did she? And she looked fantastic. I didn't care for her Annie Hall duds but as she grew older I always felt she had a very strong hand on her personal style.

"This might seem a bit dumb, but can anyone explain the title? Was the candy bar around back then?"

In the novel "Looking For Mr. Goodbar" there's a bar called "Goodbar's." It's one that Theresa Dunn frequents; she meets her murderer there. The decor has a kind of candy theme; there's a wall that's covered with candy bar wrappers. The title, I think, is kind of a twist on "looking for Mr. Right"; instead of looking for Mr. Right Theresa Dunn is looking for Mr. Right Now. Or Mr. Goodbar.

The only book ever written on the actual murder case of Roseann Quinn was "Closing Time" by Lacey Fosburgh. It contains some interesting information but it's not a good book at all. She doesn't even use the real names of the principles in the book! Roseann Quinn is "Katherine Cleary" and John Wayne Wilson is "Joe Willie Simpson." She also admits she "created scenes or dialogue I think it reasonable and fair to assume could have taken place, perhaps even did." In other words, she made up stuff. Anyway, it's a shame her book is the only one on the subject. A better author could really do much more with the story of Roseann Quinn and John Wayne Wilson, two incredibly disturbed people who crossed paths and imploded.

Some interesting info

The movie is on YouTube. Fairly good quality. And Keaton doesn’t show her pussy in it but plenty of tits.

R112 R117 Thank you!

The mention of Death Wish brought to mind Joe (1970), another ‘political button-pusher’ (thank you, NYT) of the era.

It’s gritty and hopeless all right; just don’t go expecting a fun night at the movies. Peter Boyle was brilliant, though.

These two films are from the 60s, but they ushered in the "gritty NYC" era, Sidney Lumet's "The Pawnbroker" and Larry Peerce's "The Incident". The latter film has a great cast that includes Beau Bridges, Ruby Dee, Brock Peters, Jack Gilford, Ed McMahon, Gary Merrill, with Donna Mills, Tony Musante, and Martin Sheen making their debuts, and Thelma Ritter in her final role. The full movie is up on Youtube.

I did a Google search using "gritty 70s movies" and here's a list of them:

Panic In Needle Park

The French Connection

Serpico

Dog Day Afternoon

Death Wish

Klute

Mean Streets

The Taking of Pelham One Two Three

Taxi Driver

Saturday Night Fever

The Warriors

Shaft

Midnight Cowboy

Superfly

Crazy Joe

Hell Up In Harlem

The Seven Ups

Short Eyes

R92 George Segal AND Shelley Hack!! Holy fuck DL loons!

That said, 5 years earlier he was a leading man in A list movies — that’s a seriously swift fall (because that’s barely a B list TV movie). Now I’m starting to believe those heavy cocaine rumors were true, because why else?

That’s a shame though, I’m actually really a fan of his.

Don't forget the dyke musical "Times Square". It really does somewhat romanticize the TS that doesn't exist, maybe never did, but that many of us fell in love with. I didn't know that Carly Simon's songwriter, Jacob Brackman wrote this piece of shit. The opening is all kinds of awesome.

R125 TIMES SQUARE is not a "piece of shit!" This is 1980 "gritty NYC," but sanitized a tad for runaway, misfit, new wave teens. The young lead actor Robin Johnson is amazing in this role.

Mean Streets is on Netflix. I knew I wouldn't like it. Maybe bit too dude-bro of a movie for me....like Raging Bull or something. Gurl, NO!

OP, have you seen The King of Comedy?

“Martin Scorsese's satirical comedy/drama caustically explores the lengths to which a nobody will go to be as famous as his idol. Practicing his patter in his basement with cardboard cut-outs of his favorite celebrities, mediocre aspiring comedian Rupert Pupkin (Robert De Niro) believes that one appearance on the evening talk show of the Johnny Carson-esque Jerry Langford (Jerry Lewis) will be his ticket to stardom. After he helps Jerry escape the advances of amorous fan Masha (Sandra Bernhard), Rupert takes Jerry's patronizing brush-off as a true promise for an audition and begins haunting Jerry's office.” -Rotten Tomatoes.

Here’s the opening sequence.

I wasn’t born when this happened, but I’ve always known the story because I live in the neighborhood Saint Joseph’s school for the deaf, where she taught. My friend’s grandfather was one of the detectives who arrested Wilson.

OMG, an actual connection to the real story ^^

That's a first!

R130 I’m sorry you are not impressed with my very unexciting connection to the case.

Why do you say I'm NOT impressed?

R131, That didn't read like sarcasm to me!

You're right. It wasn't sarcasm.

R122: thanks for mentioning Thw Pawnbroker, one of the first gritty NY films.

Ooooh, "The Pawnbroker" is on Amazon streaming! Gonna check it out now.

R132 I totally read that as sarcasm. I apologize. I always find it interesting when people have even a mundane connection to cases that are famous. Sometimes those little details are fun and make it more real.

I didn't read it as sarcasm. In fact, r130 totally echoed what I think and wanted to say. I think it's really impressive there is a connection to the case. I find the story so fascinating and sad.

One thing about Goodbar the film that doesn't get enough credit is the sound editing. The opening titles sequence is brilliant with all those evocative shots but I also love how the songs transition into one another. And I love all the bar sequences where you can hear the music blend with the characters and their conversations. For example, the use of Backstabbers by the O'Jays is so effective.

But the most brilliant example is the end when **SPOILER ALERT** when Theresa is being raped and murdered, you hear her screams and then the strobe lights and then the screen goes to black with flickers of her image... as you hear her whimpers start to fade. SO disturbing.

The real gurl and the real killer.

He looked like rough trade

I love how different Diane looks in different scenes in this and Annie Hall. Makes her so interesting to watch.

She can go from plain and dowdy, to sexy and pretty.

I think Diane is a very underrated dramatic actress. I'll watch her in Goodbar, Reds, Shoot the Moon and Marvin's Room over her comedies.

I think Goodbar and Shoot the Moon are her best performances.

[quote]I think Goodbar and Shoot the Moon are her best performances.

And Annie Hall and Manhattan after them.

Amazing she's been so happy in be in so much trash. She doesn't value herself as an actress.

I saw a recent film, Hampstead. It was GODAWFUL!

Time Magazine 1977...you need to click on it

Is this it R47?

God, she crucifies it @ R146. Dreadful!

That ending is a cautionary tale. Bill Withers singing “She’s Lonely.” Chilling.

I love Diane Keaton, but her skill as an interior designer need a lot to be desired.

Where did she get this inspiration from, Schindler's List?

The theme continues inside.

The version I am looking for plays in the film's opening credits. It starts at 1:37 in this video.

[quote]The version I am looking for plays in the film's opening credits. It starts at 1:37 in this video.

Well, you're not going to find it.

Scoliosis, papa...!

R153 the family scenes were really something out of bad theatre — I think someone above said that.

Really, that goes for all the actors other than Keaton.

They think I pee perfume!

[quote][R153] the family scenes were really something out of bad theatre

The father was such a ham.

& that dreadful set. Every time someone slammed the front door you could see the whole thing wobble.

OK...which one of you did this?

This thread is why I LOVE DL. Only here could I find others who still say "Scoliosis, Papa!!" and "They think I pee perfume".

And Katherine is totally a DLer.

I have heard that before r156 - I am going to have to watch it again to see the sets wobbling. Hilarious. Isn't there one scene in the film where Theresa is outside and you can see palm trees?? LOL

I agree the father is a ham. Richard Kiley was generally a good actor but all he did was yell in this movie. The movie made every male seem like an asshole, except LeVar Burton's character.

[R158] I think a case could be made that the message "men are assholes" was the entire point.

I'm a pitcher, not a catcher...!

I don’t remember that perfume line at all!! Who says that?

Richard Gere has improved so much as an actor since then, and really I’m so glad.

Also, idk if anyone remembers this but he presented Keaton with her Somethings Gotta Give golden globe, and he was genuinely so happy. I’m mixed on presenters having emotional reactions when they like the winners, but this was really so sweet.

[quote]I don’t remember that perfume line at all!! Who says that?

Katherine says it to Theresa about their parents when she's on the way out of the house to her abortion or divorce, can't remember which, in Mexico. You remember the "safe cracker" line, right?

In the novel LRMG Theresa a fellow teacher at school fixes her up with a friend of hers named James Morrisey. He's a wonderful boy, a lawyer, Catholic, a selfless, hardworking young man who had been the sole provider for his sister and widowed, crippled mother since he was a teeanger. For some unfathomable reason he falls in love with Theresa, a chilly, unpleasant woman who treats him with disdain. I get the impression that James must be very codependent to want to be in a relationship with someone like that. Although James is very good to Teresa he is very unsatisfying as a lover. His only sexual experience before Theresa was with a priest who had been his mentor. James tells Theresa that making love to someone simply for the sake of having sex is "foreign" and "unappealing " to hm. He's a very moral person. At any rate she liked having someone around to be with and go out with but she basically treats him like shit. Near the end of the novel, she tells him she has other lovers besides him and he's heartbroken. But he later calls her and tells her he loves her and wants to marry her. He's even willing to forgo having children since she doesn't want any. He's going on a vacation to Ireland and wants to make it a honeymoon trip; he tells her he won't talk to her again until she makes up her mind. She feels guilty and pressured and decides to ease her tension by going to Goodbar's and find a guy to take back to her apartment and fuck. And as it happens, her pickup turns out to be a psycho who murders her.

At the end of the novel I never thought the death of Theresa was such a tragedy. I always thought the tragedy was James. I always thought about the agony he must have suffered; the woman he loved and wanted to marry went out to a bar, brought a guy back to her apartment, fucked him, and ended up getting killed by him. All I could think was "poor James." Poor James.

Great post r163. I will never understand why Brooks changed James from the novel. He becomes a plot device; another douchebag who stalks Theresa. The last half hour turns into a thriller with all these men stalking and taunting her.

James sounds incredibly closeted to me. Hopefully he'll use Theresa's death as a wake-up call and go ahead and come out.

I’d like to find that bedroom chandelier with the Kama sutra positions for my bedroom. Some light inspiration.