Theranos - Elizabeth Holmes - How did she do it?

George Schulz was an investor. And a greedy Republican. So there’s that.

Old rich men are easily dickmatized luddites. The end.

I can’t wait for the Netflix series about grifter Anna Sorokin (aka Anna Delvey). If you aren’t familiar with her story it’s a juicy one, google her.

Think about how any cult starts. The Silicon Valley is a land of true believers, or people who desperately want to believe in something. Every Stanford grad/dropout's got a startup that they're trying to get off the ground, and there are plenty of powerful people who want to back the new Steve Jobs. So in strolls this blonde Manson, ready to take advantage of the mindset of the time and place. She knew how to sell herself from a visual perspective, and knew exactly which buzzwords to use. Her being a woman persuaded not just those with twitching, geriatric dicks, but others who thought themselves more progressively minded. The revolutionary implications of her device also helped.

Honestly, the how is probably the easiest part, and she probably would have been a success had the fucking machines actually worked, but they didn't. So the question shouldn't be how she convinced people, because those people have already set up their minds to be convinced. The question should be, why'd so lie about something that so obviously would have revealed her?

Fibs couldn't make an impossible machine work.

Everyone wants to get in on the Silicon Valley action so they fell for her pitch. Most of those old fogies don't understand tech anyway so they didn't ask the tough questions. Once one of those famous men was on board, it was easy form Holmes to say, "So and so in on my board so it must be a great product!"

Sure, it sounded like a great idea but all the signals from the company were that something was going wrong.

Once she got certain high profile investors on board---old fools she flirted with and dazzled with her snake oil schtick, it was a snowball rolling down hill. Other investors jumped in blind, with both feet, due to FOMO (Fear of Missing Out).

When you think about it, this is how ventures get funded ALL the time, especially in Silicon Valley. Steve Jobs was a total nutcase. He had lot of insane ideas that he just expected his R&D to turn into reality. Some of his" visions" hit, some didn't.

The difference between Steve Jobs and Elizabeth Holmes is that he wasn't putting human lives at risk.

R4, I think she really believed it would eventually work. She lied to buy time.

How she got away with it is the better question. Wasn't she still spotted all over San Francisco after the story blew up? Then she was at Coachella or Burning Man or wherever with some hotel scion. She's... fine.

She lied to the kind of idiots who do not understand the zeitgeist. But I don't understand how she put it over on anyone under the age of 40.

She and her scuzzy partner, Sonny whatshisname, also barred any scrutiny of the company by invoking "trade secret" privileges. She created a paranoid environment at he company to make everyone believed her competitors were trying to steal the technology. No one could blow the whistle due to iron clad non disclosure agreements.

She’s a narcissistic psychotic liar like Trump and Lance Armstrong.

She had a high school diploma and 2 semesters of college (yes, at Stanford). I really don't believe she could have invented anything scientific, even given more time.

Her M.O. was to bamboozle rich, older guys. Much older guys. So old that she didn't even need to have sex with them. Her boyfriend at the time was a rich, older guy. There's video of Bill Clinton and Holmes on a stage. He's obviously starstruck by her.

Schulz's grandson was a whistle blower, along with employee (former) Erica Cheung. Schulz believed Holmes over his own grandson almost until the very end. I'm not sure how you can repair that relationship.

I do think the idea itself has merit. She just couldn't operationalize it. To keep the money flowing, she resorted to lying.

She didn't, R9. In the end, it was a couple of kids (ha! much maligned millennials) who had the guts and the backbone to blow the whistle and take her down. They were awesome and should be rewarded for their heroism. But it can also be said that the younger folks had much less to lose. Older workers were threatened with lawsuits that would bankrupt them and destroy their lives.

Holmes is a millennial too, FTR.

George Schulz's grandson, Tyler, spent something like $400,000 defending against Holmes' attorneys. The other employee, Cheung, moved to Hong Kong for a while to get away. Those 2 definitely felt threatened and like they had something to lose (even though young).

[quote]How she got away with it is the better question. Wasn't she still spotted all over San Francisco after the story blew up? Then she was at Coachella or Burning Man or wherever with some hotel scion. She's... fine.

Her trial hasn't started yet.

The SEC (Securities Exchange Commission) part is over. She agreed to not be on a board of directors for ten years (something like that). Her criminal charges are pending.

There were people under 40 close to the corporate mechanisms that invested in her smoke and mirrors. For example Safeway.

Also there were under 40s employed by Theranos who had to know and refused to whistleblow.

Also everyone sorta knew about Madoff but lots of stupid people in the world.

I interned at the SEC in NYC - office filled with mediocre IQ toadies to the executive Dillingers of today.

Some parts of this story are fascinating. Like the fake voice. She appropriated a very low speaking voice, while her real voice is higher and more feminine. It was said she did it to stand out, but I can't see how her targeted older men would appreciate the masculine voice.

And her photo ops were designed to emulate some of Steve Jobs' famous photos.

And Walgreens had bought into the whole thing.

True, R16. And they were also threatened constantly that their reputations would be destroyed if they didn't fall in line. Lots of "you'll never work in this town again" type threats.

{quote]I think she really believed it would eventually work. She lied to buy time.

Yep, she was doing the 'fake it 'til you make it' shtick. Unfortunately for her, she was trying to sell a machine that might as well have been made from LEGOS.

R1 I agree, totally. Schulz' grandson, Tyler, the whistleblower, showed great grace and forgiveness towards his grandfather at the end of the documentary. This young man's parents spent half a million bucks defending him, all the while Grandpa RichBritches is still backing the cunt. And when asked at the end of the film if his grandfather ever agreed with him, he said that yes he finally did. And the young man was so gracious, I wanted to cry.

I think she’s goofy looking with her buggy eyes and awkward body, but old men can’t see. And yes, that Tyler is the hero of this story. His family should be very proud. He’s no lightweight rich boy.

R11 [quote]She’s a narcissistic psychotic liar like Trump and Lance Armstrong.

YES, there must a special ring in hell for those bitches.

[quote]Schulz's grandson was a whistle blower, along with employee (former) Erica Cheung. Schulz believed Holmes over his own grandson almost until the very end. I'm not sure how you can repair that relationship.

At the end of the film, the young man graciously accepts that it may take some time but he's willing to try.

R20 Emulating Steve Jobs to the extreme -- even wearing the same outfit every day! And in any scene where she's sitting, she crosses her legs ankle on knee. Very masculine. HEY! Maybe all those old guys were drawn to her masculinity...

[quote]He’s no lightweight rich boy.

Well said (or written). You would think Grandpa George would be proud of Tyler instead of resisting him. The young man is a hero. It just proves what R1 implied...George was in it for the money and when he weighed losing money vs losing his grandson, he chose money - until he couldn't fight it anymore.

The fake deep voice.

I definitely agree with posters 7 and 13 above. I came away from this film with the impression that she definitely. The idea would work. And that her Consultants and advisors did too. By the time they had amassed all that funding, I'm sure she felt that she had no choice but to keep at it. Which of course doesn't justify anything that happened

She had balls. Just kept on lying. When the FDA cited Theranos for multiple violations, she went public to THANK them -- said she wasn't aware that she was in violation. Also, when she couldn't find a phlebotomist or head up her 'clinic' she hired a dermatologist and foisted off that person as her science expert. Which reminds me: Where was Bill Nye the Science Guy during all this? He would've been the perfect arch-enemy!

Oooh thanks for posting this OP, I’m going to watch it now.

I first learned of the company from her appearance on "Charlie Rose" several years ago. What a mess! IIRC, Rose tried to press her on details but by the end of the interview he was as confused as his viewers.

Talk about blonde White woman privilege!

Read John Carreyrou's "Bad Blood."

Why would she go through the trouble of deepening her voice? She’d have to always be aware of it.

R32 Please come back and tell us what you think!

R34 She believed a masculine voice was more powerful than a feminine voice. And she did slip up on occasion and used her 'real' voice. You can Google it for a few examples that were caught on tape...

If she’d been more overtly sexy, the men would have been “oh ho I’m too smart to be manipulated by some sexy babe!” She’s serious. She’s smart. She’s not a bimbo using her sexuality to manipulate us.!

R37 Good point. When asked about what he was most impressed with about her, Mattis said 'her integrity.' Ugh. A couple years later, he was on PBS Washington Week with Judy Woodruff, apologizing. And God Bless Judy Woodruff -- she's the only one who got him to acknowledge he had anything to do with that fraud!

I know this is going to sound racist. But in the urban south I have noticed many of the thugs (blacks and whites) maintain an affected deep voice. I noticed it on a guy that I worked closely with for a couple of years. Now, I can spot that voice from a mile away.

So far as it working, who would have thought we would have crisper in our lifetime?

I used to use an affected deep voice in my 20s. As a male with a naturally higher pitched voice, I wanted to appear more masculine. It’s funny to hear voice recordings of myself back then; I sounded a lot like Holmes.

And yes it was always an “act,” having to remember to speak lower. Thank god by my 30s I didn’t give a shit anymore.

I think being the right level of cute did help. If she were gorgeous, they would have thought she was an airhead. If she were ugly, they wouldn't have thought of her at all.

Her hair is a fucking mess.

there was a big VC guy on a panel defending her AFTER the whole thing was exposed and the other panelists were incredulous . At that point it was like give it up already but no he kept insisting Holmes was the real deal etc.

R43 Is VC virtual capital. I'm not familiar with the abbreviation. If that's true, it would make sense why some of those original investors were so adamant that she was the real deal. They were 'Madoffing' trying to get more investors into that scheme.

A lot of these rich and powerful guys, especially the politicians, are not particularly bright. They’re conniving and savvy in a limited way, but not particularly intelligent.

R45 I never realized that, but how true. I worked for the Governor of my state and he was an idiot.

You’re right, R39, that does “sound” racist, despite your efforts to carefully insulate yourself from the accusation.

But make no mistake .... it did in fact “sound” racist. Most likely because you are a racist!

Just own it.

Capitalism is a con game. CEOs making 10,000 times the average salary isn’t efficient markets - it’s a con game that CEOs have figured out. Even when they get fired, they get millions.

Well duh. You dont need to be smart to be a politician, just convincing enough to the right amount of people.

Will Walgreens and Safeway get taken to task for rolling out this "invention" and using it on real live patients?

The testing machine was supposed to be the size of a laser printer (personal size, I think). Theranos was watering down the blood (which leads to inaccurate diagnostics) and testing the watered-down blood on other (larger) machines, like Siemens.

I know that all the people in Arizona who succumbed to this testing were reimbursed...and I THINK that was by Walgreens. Don't know about Safeway.

[quote] this pathological liar fooled so many powerful people: Henry Kissinger, George Schulz, Jim Mattis, Rupert Murdoch, etc., etc.

What shocks me the most is that anyone with a college education believed diagnostics could be based on a drop or two of blood. Or anyone who has ever had blood drawn for testing. It's a tube or two. FFS, these geezers are so old that trips to the phlebotomist's office are a regular occurrence.

I guess it speaks to how poorly our education system teaches basic science and critical thinking skills -- or how greed leads people to suspend their disbelief and common sense.

Was Holmes fucking that older guy, Sunny something?

If so, eeeeewwwwwwwwww!

Elizabeth Holmes Accidentally uses REAL VOICE !!

R44 VC = venture capital.

R52 one of the docs about her (I think it was The Inventor) interviewed a Stanford medical school prof who Holmes kept trying to recruit as a consultant/board member etc. who REPEATEDLY said, this will not, under any circumstances, ever work, and Holmes ignored her and kept coming back with possible changes until the prof finally said I’m a medical doctor, I’m not going to say what you want to hear, fuck off. Then I believe she warned people about Holmes and everyone still ignored her. Holmes was a wizard at convincing people of her genius. She was like that Fyre Festival guy, fantastic at the sell and no thought to the consequences of her fraud. I find blatant hucksters if this sort fascinating. I hate them, but their pathology is so odd I want to figure out how and why they operate this way.

Also sorry for lack of paragraphs that came out longer than I thought.

R55

Actually, R47 , I do own it. I was brought up in a racists household and I can't erase the impression it left on me. I can, however, control my actions. and recognize my prejudice. I actually talked about it at length with the guy I mentioned in my earlier thread. For me, that is better than insisting I am not racist and attacking anyone who might acknowledge people are different colors. Like most things in life, those people attack what they hate in themselves. Whether they realize it or not.

Have a blessed day.

R53 [quote]Was Holmes fucking that older guy, Sunny something?

Yep, he was her 'boyfriend' -- I like to think of that word being spit out, like Cloris Leachman in Young Frankenstein!

R55 I am starting to believe that she is truly a hypnotist! I need to find the article that poses that supposition; it really does make sense on her one-on-one meetings but what about the group sessions? She must have had that 'Jim Jones' quality...

R55/R56 - The ignoring of the older professor was disheartening. The fools involved were so eager to believe a wunderkind, so to speak, over an academic.

I give Millennials a hard time about lacking critical thinking, a sense of history, and knowledge of the humanities and culture, coupled with their 'meta-modern' existence where white shoes released during Black History Month are racist - but these older men were completely duped.

Without a science or engineering background I could tell that those machines would never work. Why isolate a tiny amount of blood in something mechanical only to have it cake up and clog the parts? The only thing remotely innovative about the thing was the replacement of the human handling of the sample by the machine, much like an ATM handles money only far worse. And where did the blood go after it was tested?

The economics and safety of the Edison don't make sense either. Far better to keep blood testing as it is: Send multiple to samples to a central (sterile!) lab and let the technicians and whatever machines and computers they have do their work.

If she had been overtly sexy, the men would have felt manipulated. They are too smart to fall for a bimbo pitching an idea. But she’s smart! She’s not showing her cleavage.

Why didn't she find something that DID work, rather than continuing to peddle something that didn't work?

I believe the vord vas boyfrendt(!), r58.

OP, as someone suggested above, you should read "Bad Blood" by John Carreyrou. It really fleshed out in more detail what a psychopath Holmes is and the old men come off even worse in the book than in the documentary.

Schultz and Mattis in particular are just complete assholes willing to believe anything Elizabeth said, and nothing anyone else said. The Safeway guy and a doctor with Walgreens also believed every damn thing she said and wouldn't entertain anyone speaking against Elizabeth the genius.

They were all members of the Cult of Elizabeth, but like you I can't figure out why they were so entranced by that freak.

George Shulz's grandson, Tyler, came off as an incredibly humble, kind and brave person. Why can't he go into politics? We need more Tyler Shulzes out there.

OK I just finished it. Didn’t enjoy it as much as the Fyre Festival docs, but found it informative. I had no idea it was such an elaborate deception.

I wish they had delved more into her psychopathy. They didn’t even address the voice issue, which the video at r54 addressed.

Was also hoping there was more prologue, explaining what she could be in for if found guilty of fraud (i.e. prison time). And didn’t she also marry some rich hotelier?

Almost a billion dollars, wasted. Makes me furious to think what else that money could have gone towards.

There was a lot of filler in that HBO documentary ("Inventor"). I fast-forwarded through that one guy who was an economist / psychologist (? I forgot what his role / credentials were). His commentary was spliced in throughout the documentary. A lot of it was repetitive, but it did drive home a simple set of facts.

One of the employees said that it was against the law of physics to be able to do all that blood testing in a machine as small as the "Edison." Something about heat transfer, etc.

Here’s an article about the ten-episode Netflix series about grifter Anna Sorokin, filming now.

To add to what r67 said, r62, she couldn’t find something that did work because it’s not a thing that exists.

She was trying to invent a machine that could diagnose everything from a small sample but as the Stanford med school professor pointed out, you cannot test for cancer where you’re testing for rabies.

As I understood it, the chemicals, sample and actual physical tests needed to diagnose can’t humanly be done in such a small space like the Edison with a minuscule sample. It’s science fiction. The prof kept saying it can’t be done and Holmes kept saying it can! I’ll just stick the whole lab in a box! It’ll be great! Silicon Valley (the HBO show) did a riff on this concept. Holmes was dangerously deluded and people bought into it. How, I do not know.

The animation of the Edison malfunctioning seems pretty accurate: blood splatters everywhere, contamination, parts breaking. Seems like it would be a biohazard in a box.

R2: unless you know something about Holmes that we don't, shouldn't that be "puss-matized" in this case?

R60 Yes, it was so disheartening to see the older professor be dismissed. And then a couple years later, hear Jim Mattis try to hide behind the fact that 'they' (the old white guys on the board) didn't have any scientific input. Well, wait a minute...they didn't. That older professor was shut down before the word could get out. Sorry.

Mattis on Theranos

[quote]The animation of the Edison malfunctioning seems pretty accurate: blood splatters everywhere, contamination, parts breaking. Seems like it would be a biohazard in a box.

R70 That's how one of the lab workers described it! He was expected to put his hands in the box when it jammed up and he said it was covered in fresh blood spatters and old dried blood. He did it a couple times and then was fired when he refused to do it again.

R73 What medical professionals on the board??

Here's a simple fact - she is not unusual in Silicon Valley and amongst investors. Sociopathic, narcissistic behavior is common amongst those who strive to be CEOs. Like attracts like. You can bet that a lot of the people that approved the investment are EXACTLY like her. She just made a bet on a product that couldn't be done, and lost. Sometimes they succeed. If she had managed to do it (force her scientists to figure it out, that is) she would have been publishing books and going on speaking tours and hailed as a visionary leader. It's sadly not unusual.

Read the book "Bad Blood," OP. The documentary was lightweight compared to the book, which is ridiculously gripping. It is one of the best reads of the last few years. She is clearly a sociopath, but it is not clear if she really believed that technology would catch up to her vision -- and lied ro buy more time -- or if she knew she could never deliver her product. I tend to think it is the former, because, otherwise, she would have to know that the house of cards would fall at some point, so she could have take the millions and millions and fled the country. It would appear that she does not have the slightest bit of remorse for what she did. It is also clear that the reason so many people bought into her lie is because they were afraid of missing out on the next big thing. Before Apple introduced the iPhone, did anyone think that such a product could exist? No one wanted to be left out on the new invention, which led to Walgreens installing Theranos clinics in their stores, even before the technology existed, and blood had to be tested in the traditional way; they simply didn't want CVS to have it. The story is amazing. If you're at all interested, please read the book. The movie is a shadow of it.

r77 it's not just FOMO, it's that she was appealing to people who were exactly like her. They all think in similar ways. The guys who run these funds are not morons, they buy into what she was selling BECAUSE they are so similar to each other. If they think she is full of shit, what does that make them? Each of them thinks they are getting something over on the other person.

R32 is right. READ THE BOOK. It really goes into detail on how she did it.

I have friends who worked inside the Safeway IT department, and most of them knew the machine was a turd and nobody at the top of Safeway would listen.

I'm not sure that they invested and supported her because she looked like them. Her boyfriend and partner in the company was an unattractive, volatile Indian, who certainly didn't look or act the the VCs or the boards. I'm sure her being a reasonably-attractive woman had a LOT to do with their support. It allowed her to cut through the noise. I think it probably also was to her advantage that she left Stanford early. It showed that what she was working one was simply too important to wait until she graduated. She is a scary person, and, I'm sure, there are many more like her. I'm looking at you, Neumann.

R79 R32 et al YES YES we get it; we'll read the book!

There’s definitely FOMO with the tech industry right now, but some of it, j wonder is just how much she modeled herself on what could be seen as the ideal woman to a conservative.

She was mannish (the voice, the Steve Jobs outfits) no nonsense, young, pretty but not gorgeous, intelligent, from an impeccable pedigree, business oriented rather than academic (quit Stanford to start a business) and forward thinking. She was also deferential to their experience and positions and had an unbelievable amount of self assurance. Her real gift was working the media. It’s what all those old farts want their daughters to be, but not their wives and mistresses. Cf. Ivanka the Surgical Wonder

I'm surprise someone average - not super rich - who sunk too much money he/she could not lose, hasn't killed Holmes.

Theranos didn't have those kind of investors, R83. They hadn't had an IPO; the money came from VCs.

R82 I'm curious. Do you work in the mental health field? Your diagnosis is right on the mark, particularly

[quote]It’s what all those old farts want their daughters to be, but not their wives and mistresses.

Yes, there appears to be definite line between investors and board. The board was put together in order to attract investors. Board members weren't asked for any money, they just had to put their reputations on the line in order to attract the money people. So the board people (Schulz, Kissinger, Mattis, Murdoch, etc) didn't lose money, they just tarnished their names. Ugh. Probably worse than losing money...

[quote] I think it probably also was to her advantage that she left Stanford early. It showed that what she was working one was simply too important to wait until she graduated.

How much can you know with a high school diploma and one year at Stanford? Did she learn all that in high school? Doubtful.

r80 no one said she "looked like them".

R88 Good point. I was wondering if her masculinity attracted these guys in their old age. Maybe they had a twinge or two....

r87 the point is that she got accepted to Stanford, which is all the pedigree she needs, apparently. She reads as an entitled douchebag (c.f. Andrew Yang).

Interesting side note: Schulz and Mattis are both appointed 'fellows' at Stanford...

[quote]It’s what all those old farts want their daughters to be, but not their wives and mistresses.

This x 1000

Great send up:

R93 Thank you! What a great send-up. They even did the "Can't Touch This" bit!

The story about the dice game fascinates me. (Story about rolling dice while hooked up to a polygraph)

Where is this woman now?

It's Schultz. not Schulz.

R85, haha, no, don’t work in the mental health field, but thank you for the compliment. I’m just beyond fascinated by people who are visibly full of shit but others seem to think they’re the messiah.

So called “conservative women” fall into this category. They’re so visibly phony, it floors me that people don’t see it. The Russian scammer that they’re doing the Netflix series about is another one, as is the Fyre Fest guy. There was a scammer that worked her way through the Brooklyn hipster community that used to pretend she was blind and couch surf for years. I guess people want to believe in real creative brilliance, and don’t look too closely until it’s too late.

A number of factors came to play. Holmes came from a rich well connected family and perhaps just as importantly has the blonde haired blue eyed girl next door look that old hetero men go nuts for. In American culture women with Holmes look are considered the epitome of goodness /decency /beauty, etc. You can talk all day about straight white male privilege but even mentioning Averagely Pretty Blonde Lady privilege gets you pilloried. It's a bit of a taboo.

2nd, many of these "great minds " in positions of power aren't a quarter as brilliant as they are made out to be. The same type of old rich guy in power who believed Holmes lies also believed that the invasion and dismantling of Iraq (and of course Vietnam many years ago ) would be no biggie.

And finally, Americans are shockingly scientifically illiterate. Many journalists who built up Theranos as the next big thing seemingly had no understanding of biology past the 9th grade basics.

Exactly r99. And even when an MD who was a full professor at the STANFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL said over and over, this is full of shit, this kid is a dangerous scam artist, they refused to believe the evidence.

It’s mind-blowing.

Believe it or not, this loon still has defenders. A couple of months ago, Forbes (or maybe it was Business Insider ) published an op Ed by some guy who was a friend of her and her family. He thinks that she has been treated unfairly for having the courage to push a new idea . Because of course he does.

That was an excellent spoof, but it is too bad Corden made it. I would have loved to have seen what the Documentary Now series did with a full-length version of it, but it is not likely the will do one now that a spoof has already been made. (If you want to check out a brilliant spoof, watch the Documentary Now version of The Artist is Present, Waiting for the Artist. Cate Blanchett plays Maria Abramovic.)

R87 She was probably modeling herself on Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who both dropped out of college.

I wonder if her invention was legally required to follow the HIPAA code? I could see investors being keen to invest in the next big data mining scheme.

[quote] And in any scene where she's sitting, she crosses her legs ankle on knee. Very masculine. HEY! Maybe all those old guys were drawn to her masculinity...

Strange, when I do that all the boys run AWAY from me!

Holy Crap! Mattis made $150,000 a year sitting on the Theranos board?

Stanford is really a cult. I have a friend who went to Stanford. She met her husband at Stanford Camp, where alumni go to "camp" every summer with their families. Now they go to Stanford Camp so their children will meet other Stanford offspring. This friend defiantly defends Elizabeth Holmes! I get the feeling my friend invested in Theranos, and even though burned, is such a feminist she believes women deserve the right to take the risks that men do. She refuses to believe Holmes knew it was all a scam. I told her to listen to the podcast. The Stanford Cult is powerful in California. (ie Bohemian Club) And it is as irrational as any cult. -- on another note, I work at the hotel company owned by the family of Holmes' boyfriend. I haven't heard they're still together, but haven't heard they aren't. I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Love to see her in the flesh. And hear her.

Rupert Murdoch was pretty much the source for the information about his investment in Theranos in John Carreyou’s book Bad Blood.

He wanted to get if not on the first floor then on the ground floor and make a packet. He likely saw the board and the Walgreens and everything else and hoped to make a packet.

When they met he was amused that When they met Elizabeth Holmes had a squad of security and he had a single bodyguard.

When Holmes later asked him to fire John Carreyou from the Wall Street Journal, he declined and said it is an editorial decision and nothing to do with him.

In the end he was happy to take the tax write off when it fell in.

[quote]She was probably modeling herself on Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, who both dropped out of college.

Jobs. To the point that she ran to Chiat/Day to beg the Apple creative guy to give her the same treatment. He, smelling a ruse, pawned her off on two dimwits who saw dollar signs, who promptly left to join Theranos as creative and marketing director. When all went south as expected, they were left with no career and no money either.

[quote] Stanford is really a cult. I have a friend who went to Stanford. ... This friend defiantly defends Elizabeth Holmes!

The thing is, for some "cult" is just another word for community or fraternity where members help and support each other and defend each other against outsiders who, apparently, don't know how vastly superior everyone within that cult / community / fraternity is.

A lot of these interest groups are for insecure assholes who need to feel better about themselves by being a member of some high end country club, fraternity, secret society, cult, etc. to make them feel like they have, or serve, a higher purpose than others.

Our entire society is built on the premise of making people self conscious and then offering silly, vile, or destructive ways to compensate for that nagging feeling that you're not good enough.

R107 Stanford connection to Theranos gets even creepier. Both George Schultz and Jim Mattis 'work' as 'fellows' at Stanford. Paid to do what?

Just finished Bad Blood by John Carreyou (the basis for the documentary). So many references to her staring at people with her big blue eyes and how people either fell under her spell or were terrified. It was said before and maybe it's true: she was able to hypnotize people. The only thing I liked better about the documentary than the book was being able to hear that freaky baritone voice she adopted.

Sociopaths have a distinctive gaze, sometimes compared to a predator gazing at its prey. Check out sign #11 on the list.

So she's a witch? That would explain the black turtlenecks.

I wonder if she had the investors' souls in jars.

R113 YES! That's exactly her look. You don't know whether to be afraid or succumb!

So she's a manipulative sociopath, quelle suprise

Her parents were classic DC strivers. Holmes is a natural result of the bland corporate tools that DC is overrun with. Think the mother expected more for her own life and so pushed her kids excessively.

How similar is she to Mayor Pete?

R117 Thank heavens she didn't have children. Imagine those spawns of Satan. All her relationships were based on what she could acquire, not an inkling about giving. I'm still amazed at how all those old guys fell for her and defended her. Maybe they were finally coming to grips with some kind of masochistic tendencies in their old age and wanted to be beaten down by a deep-throated nonsexual.

What is she up to now? In prison yet?

Jennifer Lawrence was attached to Anna Delvey and Elizabeth Holmes biopics. Someone should make them into one movie with JLaw playing both roles - in fact reusing the same cast members - with intertwining timelines. Call it "GRIFTER". Written by Aaron Sorkin.

R120 Excellent movie idea! Elizabeth Holmes is not in prison YET. Her trial is scheduled for 'summer' 2020; no specific date. I doubt she'll ever go to prison. OR if she does go to prison, she'll wind up running the place!

Holmes said, "I don't know," 600+ times during a deposition. But at least she knows how to dress for court. She did a face and hair make-under, like Jodi Arias.

Anna Delvey at R120 doesn't know how to dress for court. Never heard of Delvey. Maybe I need to research.

R122 Anna Delvey was the name than Russian nobody Anna Sorokin went by when she posed as a German hipster business women/influencer.

Throughout my working life in a couple fields, I have regularly met freakazoids like Holmes. It's very disagreeable when they are superiors and its disheartening how many there are. Also its amazing that people let them get away with their shit. I don't know about them all being stone cold sociopaths. (Holmes seems to be one.) They are all narcissists of course, and they destroy everything but themselves.

So what new hell is Everlywell? Is this Elizabeth's idea in some new form?

It was just another Republican scam, like Vietnam, Kuwait, Silverado, 2000 elections, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, 2006 Great Recession, 2016 election.

GOP is organized crime. Nothing more, nothing less. Our intelligence agencies, all law enforment & religious organizations are infiltrated by them & they run plenty of organizations for pure profit. NRA, PACs, think tanks, “security” firms. There are thousands of them.

Reformers have been battling the GOP forever. Reformers son with the labor movement. But then our labor unions were corrupted by GOP putting the mob in charge of them & paying police to look the other way. Notice that police unions remain strong in areas of the country where other labor unions were decimated. Republican conservatives are very strongly anti union, including republican conservative members of police organizations - but those conservative republican police make sure their own unions remain strong & wealthy.

R126 What is that rant about? Are you maybe on the wrong thread??

Wrong thread, R127?

Elizabeth Holmes, Jim Mattis, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz , Doug Ducey, David Gowan, Betsy DeVos, former US Sec of Under Defence Gary Roughead & scores more involved in selling Theranos to both public & government (especially military) investors as a miracle of modern medical technology ......what do they have in common?

R128 Okee-dokee.

[quote]what do they have in common?

R128 They're all assholes?

I suspect that she wil get a slap on the wrist. Her boyfriend will get much longer. Mark my words, Crazy Eyes won't be going away for long. The judge in charge will be just like the stupid old geezers she fooled the first time around. I think she will claim that her all powerful older lover forced her into everything. And I wouldn't be surprised if she had a little oopsie pregnancy right before her trial starts.

No any judge will put her away. They know crazy when they see it. This freakazoid put thousands of lives at risk. Who knows if she even contributed to deaths. The entire affair is grisly and horrifying.

I don't know if it is possible to convict her, because it is not clear if she intentionally attempted to violate any securities laws or commit fraud, or if she was optimistic that the Einstein could really be built. One could argue the latter, since she continued to hire scientists in an effort to make the box. She never wavered in her pursuit of creating it. If she does get convicted, it would be on some technicality when she lied about the Pentagon using the Einstein in battle when, in fact, they did not, but anything provable in the court of law is minor compared to the overriding scam. As much as I would love to see her imprisoned, I think she will walk free and be able to enjoy the millions that she made.

^There is far more proof of her lying and deceiving people than that one incident.

True, R134, but lying is not a crime, unless it was intended to commit fraud. It will very difficult to prove her intent was to commit fraud, and not that she honestly believed she would be able to deliver what she promised. Whatever they catch you her on will most likely be a very specific securities violation. We all know she is a lying sociopath, but is that illegal? I do hope she gets time, and will be unable to further profit from her experience.

Lying about blood testing accuracy is pretty serious. Sheesh.

It doesn't matter is she "truly believed" that she could do her mad scientist invention. She bald face faked it and it was about people's health and also safety regulations. That is what they should get her on. The bait and switch on the customers. It's consumer fraud. Hopefully it's interstate fraud too.

You have to bust and remove such people on technicalities, knowing you can't convict them for being evil and wastes of oxygen.

Just finished reading Bad Blood. Lots more background dirt than in the documentary. It's heartbreaking how George Schultz took Elizabeth Holmes' side over his own grandson who had PROOF of her wrongdoing. For his 95th birthday bash, the old prick invited Elizabeth but not grandson Tyler. I've lost total respect for George Schultz: former Secretary of State, Treasury Secretary, blah blah blah. So what? He could not accept the truth when faced with it in private life. How much damage did he do the country in public life?

R135, I do not think you understand lying and fraud. If I tell you that I am selling you a car in good working order with a new engine and then give you a car without an engine, that is fraud.

It does not matter if I had the intention of putting in an engine, the fact that there was not one in the car when I told you there was and took money from you, makes it fraud.

I’m not an attorney, but if what she did isn’t the very definition of fraud, then what IS fraud? She defrauded corporations, government, the board members, consumers, and so on and so forth. At the end of the day — a jury could even be told that she “believed” it was a fixable problem AND that within her pursuit of making that machine work, she still committed fraud. Also, who is to say if this bitch wasn’t smart enough to continue trying to “make it work” as it gives her both civil and criminal plausible deniability???? Could someone be that fucking evil? Go look in the windows of 1600 Pennsylvania. There’s another one who knows the game of creating plausible deniability.

There is no *way* she won’t be convicted on multiple charges, even if they are more of the technicalities type charges. I believe, however, that the government will still tell the story I just described above — she didn’t actually disbelieve the experts. She just played CYA. That’s it. And why do I sound so cynical? I just went through a huuuuuge scandal/restructuring at work over the last few years. Many heads rolled, I witnessed some things and was questioned multiple times, and while I knew some of the leaders in my organization were bad, I didn’t fully, 100% understand that my bosses boss was a textbook sociopath until maybe halfway through the nightmare. I am educated, I’ve lived, I consider myself both book-smart and street-wise, and I was (partially) fooled too. And as others here stated, once everything came out, and I heard all the stories that happened years before I ever came onboard, I couldn’t believe how everyone put up with the lies, mistreatment, and abuse of power. But! People like me, my boss, and the other talent LEAVE. I’m currently working with an expert on a new job.

Another theory — when women see leaders doing things they don’t like but aren’t say, breaking laws, they tend to lean “well, he/she has an incredibly stressful job,” or whatever way to minimize it. When men met Elizabeth, she was just another one of the guys to them. She literally was a mirror of them, using their male social cues to earn their trust. Maybe she should have had someone like AOC on her board instead. HA!

[quote] She bald face faked it and it was about people's health and also safety regulations. That is what they should get her on. The bait and switch on the customers. It's consumer fraud. Hopefully it's interstate fraud too.

She’s white. She’s from wealth. She’s republican. She’s darkened her hair, but she *was* blonde. Put them all together and you get a fine of a maybe $50,000, a month or two in jail, an appeal, the verdict overthrown & her criminal history erased.

All of this will play out over a period of years, so it’s not like she’ll be greatly inconvenienced. It’ll be like “court every few months for a day or two....2 years later the lawyers cop a plea ....she pays a fine....nine months later she goes to local jail.....she gets out....18 months later it’s all overthrown .....3 years later she sues some lawyer, or person, or the state & wins $750k.

Who is DL's trolling idiotic apologist for Elizabeth Holmes? For crissakes, slap yourself, you miserable cunt. FRAUD IS FRAUD IS FRAUD

I don't understand what was supposed to be so great about a finger prick instead of a traditional blood draw anyway. I don't particularly like either, and it sounds like people who need finger pricks regularly (diabetics, for example) wind up losing sensation in the tips of their fingers.

One thing Theranos did to hide their incompetence was have a regular blood draw taken, and then they sent it out to a real lab. They wasted a ton of money on this, and when I read Bad Blood it reminded me of the pizza delivery service on Silicon Valley that was ordering pizzas from other companies.

R143, I agree about getting blood from a finger prick. Painful. Holmes' neighbor, who was miffed that she never went to him for help, also made that point (lots of nerve endings in the finger tips).

My favourite person in the whole saga was Phyllis Gardner, the doctor, researcher and professor who complained about the bad science behind Bitsy’s original idea, and antibiotic patch and had her number from the get go. And shed be a great role in the movie, for anyone from Kathy Bates to Christine Baranski.

Who’s the idiot, again?

Nobody is apologizing for Elizabeth Holmes. We’re telling you what’s going to happen because the rules for rich white republicans in the US are pretty clear, but most Americans don’t pay attention.

“She’s so guilty! Slam dunk case! She’s going away forever! She’ll be found guilty of so many crimes her head will spin!”

Suuuuure, Jan.

This case will be dragged out for years. She’s not stupid. She had access to lawyers. Her lawyers knew how to word things to keep from going off the deep end. These Silicon Valley investors and “entrepreneurs” are first rate money launderers. “Move fast & break things!”

Did Mark Zuckerberg ever straight up ask anyone if he could collect & sell every piece of data related to their existence? No. He TOLD them he was doing it & that it was their responsibility to provide him with that free information or he was going to kick their asses off Facebook and OMG how on earth could they possibly *ever run their businesses*, or keep in touch with their families & friends & clients or keep up on what’s going on without FACEBOOK? They’ve got to have it!

Do you read the agreements you check off for Facebook, Twitter, apple......the agreements are book length. What kind of agreements do you think Elizabeth. Holmes lawyers wrote? They could've written very flowery words that can be legally interpreted in a court of law as “I agree there can be no expectation of recouping any invested money should this technology, which is in the planning stage, does not accomplish the goals stated in addendum XYZ in paragraph VII, axtp to passage 38 in the Acheneif projection.”

Legal gobbledegook is what white white rich people do.

Go read the LA Times article about the people who lost their life savings investing in Trump Baja, a resort being built in Mexico. There were videotapes of Donald Trump telling investors it was a Trump property. IvankaTrump went to the investor meetups and told them she was buying a unit and they’d be neighbors teehee, I can borrow a cup of sugar from yiu! Investors were told Don Jr was flying in & buying 2 units in the resort.

Resort was never built. Trumps said “Look at the small print at the bottom of the back of the brown brochure with you got in your major folder which contained all of the promotional and and some discussion of the prospectus materials, etc....”

Meanwhile, prospective investors were repeatedly told to remove parts of that material at meetings with lawyers, with financial managers, with developers, with real estate agents. That’s the whole point, CHAOS. Bury people in paperwork then tell them to pull out the purple pamphlet while we discuss X, then sign the yellow page & hand it back to them, then turn to the small pink folder inside the large blue & white pamphlet .....you getting the picture yet? Confuse, obfuscate, repeat, tell them they made a mistake, create chaos.

This is how rich white America does business. And you guys sit there and go. “But it has to be illegal! And it’s unethical. And if they broke the law they’re going to jail!”

Do you see any Trumps in jail? They pulled the EXACT SAME SCAM in Tampa. Again.... number of Trumps in jail? Or convicted of a crime? Donald Trump ADMITTED IN MULTIPLE DEPOSITIONS IN HIS FAILED PROJECTS THAT HE MAKES SHIT UP. He says under oath “I guess I say whatever I feel like something should be worth depending on my mood at the time I’m asked.”

Then he became president

OK, hun, if you say so.

R141 I hate to say it but this comment is probably the most accurate summary of what will happen to Holmes. People like Holmes simply do not receive hard time in this country .

R145 YES, Phyllis Gardner was the best! She knew what a bullshitter Elizabeth was from the first words out of her mouth. PLEASE NOTE: It took a woman to recognize Elizabeth's con; the men were enchanted!

R149 Phyllis Gardner and Tyler Schultz seemed to be the only two people who didn't think she was the Most Special Unicorn Princess of Silicon Valley.

Tyler Schultz deserves a special place in heaven. He was so concerned about his grandfather's legacy being tarnished by his Theranos involvement and the old bugger dismissed him out of hand. What a shit. It was heartbreaking to hear Tyler defend his grandfather's work as Secretary of State (Watergate hearings, Iran/Contra scandal) and then be conned so easily by Elizabeth. And Tyler's parents paying over $400,000 in legal fees to fight Theranos. (Tyler's dad is George's son.) This must have torn the family apart.

R145 Phyllis Gardner spotted Holmes' ignorance because of her own background and experience. She knew Holmes was bullshitting from their first conversation. Tyler spotted it from his actual work at the lab. They both came to the same conclusion but from different avenues. What an interesting story.

r143 it's exactly like that episode of Facts of Life where Jo starts a pizza company out of Mrs. Garrett's kitchen and then uses frozen pizza crusts when she can't keep up with demand.

There certainly were no visible clues!

Holmes' famous dog, Balto, who she lied about and told everyone was a wolf-- was at work today with her boyfriend's father. (My boss) Balto's been around the hotel since before Christmas, so I guess Billy Evans' family has now accepted Holmes.

R155 it was reported that they are married now, is that so?

Elizabeth is now married! According to Vanity Fair, she and Billy Evans married in a 'secret' ceremony.

I know that Rupert Murdoch is an awful person but I find it interesting that he was the only Rich Old Geezer who didn't fall 100 percent for Holmes supposed charms . He was an early investor but refused Holmes request to shut down a WSJ story that was critical of Theranos. He's nasty but probably still a sharper man than those other slobbering old men she had hypnotized.

True, R158, and I respected him for not shutting down the WSJ investigation, even though her knew that exposing Theranos would result in his losing over 100 million dollars that he had invested in it.

R155 No official news at work. Another employee innocently asked Mr Evans about the "new" dog. He didn't say it was his daughter-in-law's dog. He said something to the effect of: "You know that woman who may be going to jail for fraud with that blood company? Yeah, well. It's her dog." The employee knew not to follow up after that. Mr. Evans is quite a tyrant. But Billy and Elizabeth must be pretty cosy, if Dad is taking her dog to work.

r159 it'd be highly illegal for him to do so, given that he's an investor of the company.

They probably got married to hide her assets in his name. So when she goes to jail he'll have control of her money, and the many lawsuits she has against her personally will have some of the money shielded.

R158 Murdoch took the loss to cover his taxes!

I heard someone say in regards to this case that it’s easier for the rich to scam other rich people than to scam poor people, or for non-rich people to scam rich folks, because the rich are more trusting of one another. They truly believe they’re superior to everyone else, especially in character and intelligence. Of course they’re wrong on both counts...

R164 Yes! Never thought of that. Madoff is a perfect example. A good friend of mine was an embezzler. He was brilliant, charming and much loved by his friends. Ivy League education. Brilliant. He conned everyone, and never went to prison because his wife and family wanted him to work and repay the money he stole. The brokerage firm he worked for didn't want the negative publicity. We're no longer friends. He hurt too many people.

The thing about Rupert Murdoch is by dint of his father making him train at one of his papers is that he is an actual newspaper journalist by trade. He can make copy, set out a front page, confirm sources and is a decent enough writer.

He controls his what goes through his media through who he hires as editors, not (usually) by putting his hands in and playing God. So as John Carreyrou, who won 2 Pulitzer Prizes at the Wall Street Journal is doing a medical investigation series, he wouldn’t have any reason to doubt he is doing bad work.

R166 Never knew that about Murdoch! So he wasn't just one of Elizabeth's rich old infatuated white guys. In fact, didn't he marry Jerry (?) Hall, Mick Jagger's ex-trophy wife? Which means he has his own piece of pussy at home. From what I've read, he took his multi-million dollar Theranos loss as a tax deduction so it all worked out well for him. And God bless him for not shutting down the Carreyou story which he could have done.

Holmes and her "ex lover" are both going to trial, but separately.

And a federal court judge has just granted class-action status to plaintiffs in a civil suit against her.

Of course, WHEN these things would go to trial is hinged upon when the coronavirus lockdowns end...