Outsports Female Athlete of the Year is ... you guessed it.

[quote]Prior to joining the women’s team this season, Telfer was a mediocre DII athlete who never came close to making it to nationals in the men’s category. In 2016 and 2017, Telfer ranked 200th and 390th, respectively, among DII men in the 400 hurdles (Telfer didn’t run outdoor track in 2018 as either a man or woman). Now she’s the national champion in the event simply because she switched her gender (Telfer’s coach told us that even though she competed on the men’s team her first three years, her gender fluidity was present from her freshman year).

Stunning. Brave.

This is ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says, this is just wrong and foul. I am not archaic, socially conservative; I am very liberal, open minded, tolerant, this defies goddam common sense and is offensive as fuck to any strong woman.

She gains no physical advantage from being trans

Lmfao sure she doesn’t.

This world is fucking insane

STRONG WOMAN!

Ze won fair and square!

It's so wonderful to see people passionate about things that don't matter, they know nothing about and is none of their business.

Yeah, because women’s sport doesn’t matter. Fuck off.

Yes HE does R3.

r7, this is all of our business. We all are in this world together. And competitive sports at the national championship level speaks to our culture, as well as the role models young boys and girls look up to. Why is it that trans male has never won a male event, because its a biological impossibility thats why. Use your goddam common sense. Tranny SJWs are fkin delusional, just as trans themselves.

This is actually quite good news, because it'll bring yet more people to Peak Trans.

No advantage whatsoever.

Stunning. Brave.

R12 She stands tall and proud on that podium. What a winner.

This is horse shit

If you want to compete with women so bad, then cut off your dick and balls.

[quote]Anti-trans activists are using this story of ours to spread hate and bigotry. Show your support for #CeCeTelfer and all #trans athletes by sharing it on your social media!

Judging from the replies, it seems to have backfired on Outsports.

Ugly man

Does this colored man still have his "pee-pee" ?

Meet the Brave and Stunning editor of Outsports!

Look at him towering above all the real women. How absolutely disgusting. He wasn't good enough as a male athlete so he pretends to be female and beats a bunch of bio women half his size. Grotesque.

Outsports Dawn is really truly a real woman, y'all! She even breastfed her children (see link). So brave, so valid! uWu

Outsports Dawn is a completely normal person:

[quote]Soon after becoming Dawn, Ennis and his wife of 17 years separated — but three months later, Dawn showed up at work as Don again. [bold]He claimed that he had suffered from amnesia and accused his wife of dressing him in a wig and creating a fake ID card with the name "Dawn" on it.[/bold] "I am now totally, completely, unabashedly male in my mind, despite my physical attributes," he said in an email to his colleagues at that time. The Danbury, Conn., journalist explained that while his memories of the last 14 years had returned, his female identity did not.

[quote]Then Ennis returned to work as Dawn in May — and was fired shortly afterward.

[quote] Soon after becoming Dawn, Ennis and his wife of 17 years separated — but three months later, Dawn showed up at work as Don again. He claimed that he had suffered from amnesia and accused his wife of dressing him in a wig and creating a fake ID card with the name "Dawn" on it.

This should be made into a comedy film.

R19 what a strong woman!

Outsports Dawn really rocking that purple top and Dollar Store wig! Just us girls out on the town! Maybe Katie 'n' Dawn had a slumber party with pillow fights later because that's what #GirlsLikeUs do! #TWAW #TerfsDieInAGreaseFire

That editor is a disaster zone.

Don't forget about me...

R22 thinks he's so superior to the rest of us because he shits on women.

I really don't understand how rational, thinking, "liberal" people don't see the insanity of this.

The world has gone crazy.

[Quote]The anti-trans bile that constitutes debate around here is disgusting in gener

Can you even *debate* trans in women's sports or you just wanted to drop in and express your disgust? My attitude is live and let live but stay out of women's sports. How bout you, what's your opinion?

So ridiculous and misogynistic!

[quote]The anti-trans bile that constitutes debate around here is disgusting in general.

It's telling that the only time people bitch about the bile is when it's not directed at LGB people. We rip each other to shreds all the time.

[quote]My thinking is: if being against this was so straightforward and right, then it would prompt mostly rational detractions.

Unfortunately, even having a discussion or debate is immediately and swiftly condemned as being "anti-trans bile."

Look what happens when anyone says anything - people like JK Rowling are immediately labels TERFs although all their prior public commentary has been supportive of the the LGB community. And don't even get me started on what people did to Martina Navratilova.

Anyone who dares to do legitimate scientific studies on long-term transitioning is labeled transphobic and funding is withdrawn along with the requisite twitter lynch mob and death threats.

So yeah, critical and civil discourse is lacking.

Gender appropriation!

So basically it’s a worthless award.

[Quote]Unfortunately, even having a discussion or debate is immediately and swiftly condemned as being "anti-trans bile."

R34, I went to Outsports.com to make a comment but I backed out because I had to use my gmail and I don't have a throwaway and frankly I'm worried if my regular account could be traced to me. I'm not JK Rowling so I don't have fuck you $ or fuck you reputation where I don't give a toss what certain whackos can do to me or my property and that's pretty goddamn sad. This atmosphere is chilling.

I don't understand how these real women competing aren't pissed off about these men beating them. They all have fucking smiles on their faces on the podium. Time for them to stand up

r37: Create a through away to use in cases like this. If google/fb still they still require a number to send confirmation texts too for new accounts, find a service online

For R37

I see this as a feminist issue, not one of transphobia. I can only imagine how angry these young women’s parents are about seeing their daughter’s get cheated out of an athletic achievement they earned the hard way. Feminist groups can’t speak out because they would be smeared.

Clearly CeCé still has his PePé.

R3 Absolute bullshit.

Trans folks should have their own competitive sports categories. This is evidence as to why.

WTF.

Rapinoe is even in the list of the best (no matter if they are male or female) in most sport magazines (even in countries were female soccer is not a big thing)

A total joke, but so is Outsports.

Trans-"women" and their proponents are the ultimate misogynists. They seek to obliterate the very notion of "female," and are doing so in cynical, disingenuous, and destructive invasions of heretofore private areas such as bathrooms and locker rooms as well as heretofore public arenas such as athletic events, all while claiming to be as female as their own mothers.

Any and all who actively support, encourage, and enable these invasions need to be boldly informed that their opponents will not concede to their insistence on a Brave New Biology, where "Ladyboys" get to drop the "boys" suffix; on ridiculous neologisms such as Xi or Zhem or WTFE; and especially on competing in activities that are deliberately segregated in order to allow girls and women to achieve and experience success on a fair and level field.

Take away my Liberal Democrat card, but Caitlyn is still only Bruce in drag.

It's fucking nuts. The lunatics are running the asylum.

R7 Take your dumbass out of this thread. You have NO common SENSE.

Surely this will backfire.

If trans athletes don’t have any advantage over competitors who identify according to the sex they were assigned at birth, then the fairest way to resolve this would be to either get rid of gendered categories altogether, or establish a third category for athletes who identify as trans, both FTM and MTF together.

I don’t see why anybody would object to this latter suggestion, especially as biological advantages apparently aren’t a thing.

Funny how im supposed to believe that Mayor Pete is doing well in the polls due to the advantages of being white, put that being a MAN for 18 years gave CeCe no advantage in sports.

R52 is that your first attempt at using logic?

R3 I participated in track and field in high school (1997-2001) and college (2001-05), as did my sister (1999-2003), (2003-07), and no "female" runners looked like that back then, not even the lesbians.

[quote]I don't understand how these real women competing aren't pissed off about these men beating them. They all have fucking smiles on their faces on the podium. Time for them to stand up

Have no doubt that they're pissed. But they get NO institutional and little legal support when they object. Look what happened to JK Rowling - 'men' threatening to shove their dicks down her throat, people saying she should be raped to death for her comment. It's awfully interesting the way transwomen act so much like men when they get riled up...

That’s right R55. What’s your average underpaid athlete supposed to do? They will be called a TERF cunt before they’re off the podium if they object to a male cheating their way to a medal and op-ed pieces will be written of their contributions to 200K trans suicides and 400K trans murders. And there go the sponsorship deals.

JK Rowling’s intervention is fascinating because there are only a small number of women in the world with a high enough profile and enough money to say exactly what they fucking think publicly and damn the consequences, but she gives a fair insight into what the prevailing view is. Do what you like but don’t pretend sex doesn’t exist because it, ya know, matters. Say, in competitive sport which was split by sex in the first place for good reason. How controversial.

You can be assured that most women who are much less powerful than her entirely agree, but have to put pronouns in their social media profile and play along.

R52: Sorry but i fail to see any relationship between both things

R55: A bunch of aggressive lunatics don't represent anything at all. Rowling case don't even made the media on my country, but i assure you if tennis federation let trans compete in women it will made the media.

And i can't see how trans athletes are going to compete if the international athletics federation put so many obstacles to Semenya to compete when she is bilogically a woman and she didn't change her gender

Why are MALES allowed to compete against FEMALES??

I highly recommend the documentary The Last Gold. It’s about the 1976 women’s Olympic swim team. They had a very strong team and expected to do very well. They got to the games and were stunned when they saw the steroid-enhanced East German team, who proceeded to trounce several of the favorites. Steroid use was new, so people didn’t understand what was going on. Shirley Babashoff, who had been expected to be the star of the US team, spoke out and that was it for her. The situation was slightly different because, for all most people knew, the East Germans had simple developed some really ground breaking training methods (which they did, in a way).

The East German swimmers had no idea what was going on and arguably suffered more as they faced health issues after retirement. Interestingly, the East German men didn’t benefit from the steroids in the same way. They were not standouts.

One point that is often brought up in favor of trans athletes is that they don’t ALWAYS win. Well, the US team beat the East Germans in some events too. And, obviously, US athletes enjoy many advantages. But that doesn’t make putting them up against hulking roided-out (and truly exploited and victimized) women a fair competition.

It’s a very good movie.

I will watch it R60. No, McKinnon, or whatever he is calling himself these days, doesn’t always win, but then he only decided to take up competitive cycling a couple of years ago, is very out of shape and middle aged, so sometimes his male advantage doesn’t count so much. But be assured that Cece’s age and fitness levels will see him beat a lot of the field when he was going nowhere as a male athlete.

[quote]Have no doubt that they're pissed. But they get NO institutional and little legal support when they object.

It’s going to be excruciating, but they’re all just going to have to not show up.

The athletes

Their trainers

Their parents

Their sponsors

Their supporters

After all the blood, sweat, tears, money spent in training for their lifelong goal - they are going to have to turn their backs on the event and its promoters altogether.

The spectators will show up to find only two or three trans competitors and no one else.

There will be demands for refunds. The profits will be extinguished.

Only then - when No Money happens - will TBTB come to their senses.

There is something so very Trumpian, so very Kardashianesque about the description of McKinnon and its lack of ability at R61.

Simply not qualified but feeling entitled to wins, nonetheless.

R61: That's what they say when they include Renee Richards. Hey, she never was even top 10, but they totally forget that REnee learn to play tennis later in life, and she competed at a time wher technique was way more important than the power. Right now everybody in the top 500 of the atp could easily be top 5 (probably number one) on the wta.

Obviously nobody is going to transition just to have an sports career but that doesn't change the fact that you have a big advantage if you hit the puberty as male. Hormones make you slower and less strong but still way stronger than if you were a female

Serena and Venus Williams were defeated by the 203rd ranked male tennis player.

R56 Female sports has always been the bastard kid of college athletics, so most schools don't care much to begin with.

My sister and I were able to escape from our abusive home thanks to athletic scholarships, so this actually is a big deal, because that won't be an option for other girls in the future.

Germaine Greer nails it, spot on

Sport is segregated by sex because muscle mass, bone density, sheer physical seize, lung capacity and testosterone and a host of other factors, all combine to make a male athlete miles ahead of a female athlete. This is plain common sense, which even children can accept.

Yes, Serena Williams would be able to beat your average male amateur tennis player. But no, she could not reasonably expect to compete against even an injured Andy Murray and even if he called himself Andrea. As said above, she would even lose to much lower ranked males.

Males who want to take part in women’s sport are sad, inadequate cheats. They will peak trans the world, though.

^^^ Meryl’s next role in 3...2...

R68 Leave Andy's lovely fat cock alone

R64 Renee was a college tennis champion. She was in her 40s when she joined the women’s tour. Martina Navratilova who was #1 at the time said she had a tough time beating her and a young transitioned Renee would have whipped all their asses. Renee said that herself. Martina employed Renee as her coach so it wasn’t like there was any animosity or prejudice there. They are both just being truthful and real.

[quote]They are both just being truthful and real.

Wrong! They were both just being blatant liars and false. Richards, a man, should never have been accepted on a women's tour, and Navratilova should never have pandered to this farce, enabling the disintegration of women's sports.

I’m not in favor of MTF transgenders competing against biological females, but given the apparent media agenda to normalize this and the apparent support CeCe has from her coach and team, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that every MTF who wants to compete as a female is trying to “cheat.”

According to the articles, CeCe was living as a female since at least freshman year and was only Identified as a male on the track field. And her coach has very, very little to gain by championing her and alienating every other woman in his team. The only possible angle he could have is wanting to recruit more trans athletes. And that seems extremely short-sighted. This MTF competing against F trend has a very near-term expiration date. Probably one Olympics. Which is very unfortunate for the women who will compete against MTF transgenders in those games and they have my respect and sympathy.

That asshole biker is a different story.

If it doesn’t matter, why aren’t FTM competing against males?

"And i can't see how trans athletes are going to compete if the international athletics federation put so many obstacles to Semenya to compete when she is bilogically a woman and she didn't change her gender"

R58 Caster Semenya is biologically male - XY. She has a type of congenital hormonal condition that led to feminization of her male genitalia. She was raised as a female due to her phenotype, not her genotype. Her situation is quite distinct from these loser male athletes cosplaying women and stealing trophies from them.

I highly recommend t

From the look on Katie's face in that photo I think she's silently begging someone to rescue her from this fake shebeast that has her in its paws.

Fucking disgusting cheater

[quote]establish a third category for athletes who identify as trans

I think the main point is they identify as women

R73, Telfer is still a cheat even if “living as a woman”, because males don’t belong in women’s sports. It doesn’t really matter if the motivation is being the truest validated womanly woman in the universe, or having adopted any old method for getting a medal — the impact on actual women is the same. Male advantage wins the day. Why should it?

Trans does not trump female. Trans women are different to women, and they can’t have and do everything women do. Everyone knows this even if they are frightened to say it. Most women are happy to accept trans women who want to adopt the “woman” social role and make an effort to pass and make other women comfortable in their behaviors. This in itself means accepting some things women do and have might not be for trans women or relevant to them, but that doesn’t impact the general female experience of the world (so don’t tell people periods or pregnancy or cervical cancer aren’t women’s issues for example) nor the validity of the trans person.

Unless that is accepted and acknowledged on the trans side then there will be a huge pushback that will be negative for the true trans and dysphoric as well as for out-and-out con artists like McKinnon. But the current attitude is “no compromise, trans women are women”, not forgetting “biological sex isn’t real”, — and it’s treating people like idiots and policing language for them to fall into line. The general public will reject this sooner or later.

[quote] Trans women are different to women,

That's because they are MEN.

I am in no way anti-trans, but it is patently unfair for a person born a man, even if he's had his sex organs removed, and especially if he still has his sex organs and is just dressing up as a woman (in other words a transvestite), to compete in sports against biological females.

It's also interesting that most of the trans athletes who are completing against non trans athletes seem to be M2Fs. They obviously have an unfair physical advantage over the non trans competitors. Whereas F2M trans athletes usually wouldn't have the same physical advantage.

[R55]: A bunch of aggressive lunatics don't represent anything at all.

They do to WOMEN. Women, even strong athletes like the women in question, have to be fearful and on guard for their safety all the time, both online and offline. People threatening them with violence for daring to object to this madness is a real concern. All it takes is one psycho to doxx them online or get physical with them after a meet .

I had a couple of lesbian friends over for dinner. After we ate we sat around in the living room chatting and my wife brought up the fact that I had seen a MtF in the locker room at my gym. I discussed the fact that I wasn't comfortable with that nor did I think it was fair for bio males to compete against bio females. The one lesbian flew off the handle at me telling me I sounded like a trump supporter. She was never able to address my concerns, it was all about attacking me as a person. The irony is that's a trump tactic.

R82, runners would be especially vulnerable, I would think. Trans activists were furious about the woman in the article linked below, for example.

Divisions or categories in anything competitive exist to level the playing field. In my kids’ sports they first segregated by age and the teams were co-ed until they got older.

I guess when I sign them up in the spring I will say they “identify”as preschoolers and watch them stomp the little crybabies, and then cite ageism when their parents get upset.

LOL diaper appropriation

When a man transitions to a woman, what happens to his male privilege?

Is it like a bank account? Doe it get fully depleted, or does some balance remain?

What burns for me is that the article is written in such an offensive way and also implies that we're stupid. It says that her victory made her a target of opponents of transgender inclusion in sport, including Donald Trump Jr.

So, if we disagree, we're just like Trump Jr. Ok - got it.

Then it says that she is worthy because she placed 5th in the 100m, where she has a disadvantage because she's over 6ft and the hurdles are placed closer together. Well, in the 400m, the hurdles are spaced further apart and she has a height and length advantage. You can't have it both ways - you're not disadvantaged in both distances, but they want to equate them and 'prove' that transgenders don't always win.

Lastly, this is a Div 2 championship. A single victory in that B-grade competition is better than the World Cup champion?

They think we're stupid. They honestly do.

R72 You’re talking rubbish you ignoramus. Hiring a trans woman as your coach is not pandering to anything. Especially not in 1981. Renee Richards had a smart tennis mind and helped Martina tactically and in other ways to dominate the tour. Yes, RR played on the women’s tour for a short while with limited success but that had nothing to do with Martina or her reasons for hiring Richards as her coach. Martina as you must know is against trans women competing against biological women in pro sports as unfair and RR herself backs that line. They are both fair and honest people.

R78 I identify as Sophia Loren when I put on a towel turban

R38 Women are socialized to smile, no matter what. One day, a woman will finally snap and shove this man off that first place podium for the bullshit gender appropriation that it is. In the meantime...

[quote]Take away my Liberal Democrat card

That'll be easy since you never had one in the first place. Actual Democrats use the grammatically proper Democratic when talking about the party, you phony ass.

I was on another forum and got into a debate with a bunch of hets and I was trying very hard to justify the gay community speaking up for trans people but as the debate went on and more issues were brought up it became harder to defend that position.

What I learned is that I'm not as supportive as I thought I was and most straight people are getting angry with the gay community because we're lumped ourselves in with the trans movement.

If that thread is any indication we're going to see a strong push back against gay rights because of the trans community.

R93 - it's already happened - there are studies showing diminished support of gay rights recently in the UK. No direct reason why - but one can suspect some of it is related to transgender as there hasn't really been much difference in gay rights the past 5 years.

I'm glad you were able to listen to others and review your opinion. There's a lot of knee-jerk support for trans on this board and in the gay community.

You can be supportive of trans people but also understand that some of the things SOME of them are fighting for is just wrong and dangerous.

R93 We are. It's unfair because right for us gays tends not to affect the rights of others. If I were to get married, it has no affect on my straight sister's marriage, or my straight neighbor's. However, when a transgender "woman" participates in sports, she often takes a spot away from an actual women.

R73: Nobody is saying that she is lying about being transgender or that she wants to cheat, what eveybody sees is that she has a clear advantage of being born male. She was a mediocre athlete as a man, but she is very good as a woman and that's because biologically she is a man.

It doesn't matter if she is sincere, i hope she has all the luck in the world in her life, but she shouldn't be competing against women

R96 I totally agree with you. But trying to understand the other point of view, could one say that all sport is based on ‘unfair' advantages. It never is a level playing field. Achievement is based on funding for training programmes, better diet in developed countries, racial differences, height, weight, musculature, speed, hand eye coordination and the whole genetic/hereditary handout that makes some people better than others at particular sporting activity. Why are we putting such importance on the gender category when there are so many other factors that determine success in sportL

R88: That's the most ridiculous thing, they are putting a C tier competition ahead of being the best player on a world championship. And it's not only Rapinoe, there are a good bunch of lesbians with bigger achievements than thi athlete.

R89: Martina gave credit to Richard's influence a lot of times. It was the time Martina decided to improve physically and it was the beginning of her domination.

And even with all that she was labelled a transphobe when she said the obvious even when she is probably the main resposible of the fact that women's tennis is probably the pro sport where women are closer to men in prize money

R98 Equal prize money is probably more down to BJK than Martina. In an odd way Chris Evert should also take some credit for helping to popularise women’s tennis and make it the big box office draw it became in the 70s, so that equal pay became a financial possibility.

Basically what the whole trans movement rests upon is the notion that feelings and emotions override all else, including rationale, reason, and science. In psych, we use a therapy that’s quite well known, it’s called CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). Its tenet is that your feelings are real but your distorted thought processes that instigate and promote those feelings are not in fact reality-based. I see a parallel with the trans movement’s intent on distorting scientific facts, explaining them away with convoluted lies disguised as sophisticated philosophical trope, yet even failing at that that.

You’re a woman trapped in a biological male’s body, okay your feelings are validated. We will accept you and help you to function optimally as an individual and as part of society. But don’t attempt to overturn genetics, physiology, and entire basis of science in order to trample upon the rights of biological females. Life isn’t perfect and we cannot have all that we wish to have, and sorry that you have bern dealt with this cross to bear in life. Stop being an absolutist in trying to overcome what is impossible to erase, and that is genetics. Accept that society accepts you as a woman, except in certain instances where your genetics take precedence and guides what is appropriate. This includes athletic competitions and medical health.

The only people they have been able to con and acquire compliance from, are the SJW ideological Left and cultural elites. They have so far been able to dictate silence from those of us were sympathetic to the cause initially but are no longer okay with such blatant stupidity and impingement of rights against biological females.

It is disgusting that so-called social liberals are now supporting discrimination against equality, all in the name of aligning themselves with an even more downtrodden group (in the SJW hierarchy) than women. This is an example of victimhood culture gone off rails but it is the inevitable consequence, sad to say.

I think you are a troll rather than an idiot, R97. Gender is irrelevant. Biological sex, which is the distinction we should maintain, is as fundamental as age.

“People” cannot meaningfully compete against one another the way a 23-year old versus a six year old at any sport is not a fair fight either. I suspect you know this but waffled on about training anyway.

Well-said, R100. It’s entirely possible to have respect and sympathy for trans people — as most people do — and not be willing to accept every single declaration made on their behalf as fact. It is not reasonable to expect even one woman to lose out on medals, academic sponsorship or sporting success because a male has dysphoria and wants to compete against them. A trans person’s feelings about themselves do not alter the objective reality that sports are segregated by sex and always should be.

LOL of COURSE! this is total nonsense, what a world.

BTW there is a noticeable uptick in anti-gay sentiment and I have personally seen it linked directly to comments like "they want to change kids' sex" or "they are men in wigs." Now obviously bigots gonna bigot, but it's time for gays to stand up for GAY things and make sure our very nascent civil rights and attitudes aren't eradicated by the toxic radiation of the trans agenda. Please for the love of god, we HAVE to. I used to be like the dummy upthread who thought this was all "just anti-trans bigots who are VILE." but, like trump, you can't be a fence-sitter anymore. Gay acceptance is going backward, this is being well-documented, and it's time to do something about it. Drop Them.

R101 Nope, I'm just trying to put across the other point of view rather than simply branding others as 'insane'. You've not got my point either. Yes, there are biological differences between male and female that favour males in terms of most athletic performance. But there are also many, many other factors that favour one athlete over another that are fully accepted. Athletes in richer countries have access to better coaching and training from earliest age. But we don’t categorise or have athletic divisions based on national GDP. Tall athletes are better at high jump - we don't have height restrictions or handicaps for shorter people. Black athletes are on the whole faster sprinters - we don’t split out the 100m field by colour to give whitey a chance. Genetics plays a huge part in athletic and sporting ability. We don’t have divisions by height, strength, musculature, body type, etc. which are largely a genetic lottery. The point is competitive sport is never a level playing field, at macro or individual level. It's 'unfair' by its nature. If you could just shift your mentality a little, you'd see that the competitive division in athletics between male and female is a social / cultural construct. As the division between the sexes blurs in society, so it does in sport and everywhere else. You are defending a social construct rather than the natural order of things. The fact that you equate male/female difference with competitive age categories - senior vs. junior - is quite a big clue that you are seeing this from a patriarchal perspective. Women are not minors. The status quo is changing whether you like it or not.

Nobody's corrected r92's ignorant ass yet? r92, your mistake is so obvious and embarrassing for you that I don't even feel the need for a snarky reply. Educate yourself.

R103: This Gay White Male will not "drop them". I am not sentencing people to hatred and death because of sports or because of some nebulous connection to gays being less accepted. We will all succeed and coexist together. Or we all die together. There is no inbetween. If you want to drop them, go ahead. You will of course express no surprise once all the trans have been put into the ovens that they then push us all in next. It. Will. Not. Stop. There.

R105: Hey cunt, instead of being uppity, why don't you point out what I got wrong? OH WAIT, you can't! Because everything I said is absolutely bang on. Sit down and shut up, junior.

r107 Here you go baby, you've got a lot of reading to do before the test!

R104, you are condescending in your disingenuousness. You know perfectly well why sports are separated by sex. Children in kindergarten know why. Let me explain it for you though as you’re pretending it’s complicated, as a faux reasonable troll tactic.

However hard a top female athlete trains, she will frequently beaten by an average male athlete. We know this from stunt male vs female sporting competitions, we know it from McKinnon and Telfer’s podium finishes, and we know it from basic common sense.

What do you think the score would be if the all-conquering US Women’s soccer team played France, Belgium, Brazil etc Men’s teams? It would be an utter annihilation. In fact, the US Women would probably lose against England’s U15 boys team.

You can sound as stupid as you want, but don’t pretend you’re making a valid point when you’re doing so and don’t suggest anyone who notices biological differences is doing so for sociological or political reasons. Males versus females is nonsense, and you know it.

R106, stopping Telfer taking women’s titles will not result in a holocaust for trans people, the same way JK Rowling’s tweet didn’t kill any trans women anywhere.

This sort of argument, if you put it out there in the wild with the straights who bother to vote and pay taxes, will only bring the backlash against all members of the LGBT much sooner. Absurd hyperbole is not going to advance trans rights. Trans women do not belong in women’s sports. They need to get over that if you want women to accept them in their bathrooms. Why does the compromise all have to be on women’s side, all the time?

R108: Why would anyone want to take the membership card of a dead political party though? And why don't you Brits articulate your words? Liberal Democrat card sounds so illiterate.

R94 and R95 the thing that kept coming up for them was "don't police my language" and "I'll call you by your preferred pronouns but I will not believe you're a woman/man just because you say so".

These are educated people in white collar jobs, not knuckle dragging rednecks.

I mentioned that the same arguments against pronouns are the same arguments used when women wanted to be called Miz rather than Miss in the 1970s. One woman replied, "I was one of those women who wanted to be called Miz, but I was actually a biological woman."

Then the argument came up about erasing gay boys and tomgirls and convincing them and their parents that these children are trans. It's hard to argue against that belief when it seems to be happening all around us.

In years past effeminate gay boys lived in fear of being bullied and called names. I wonder if today they live in fear of being medically changed into girls.

R106 is the problem with the gay community. So now if we point out the obvious and we disagree with this, then this will lead to all of us being put into ovens.

This type of knee-jerk absolutist thinking is disturbing and ignorant. R106 is part of the problem with the far left and it alienates moderates and most people.

R113: You honestly think letting far right nutjobs do as they please to trans people is gonna just stop there? They want us all dead. You don't make common cause with them under any circumstances. You damned fool.

R109 OK, cuntbreath, let's get the ad hominem out the way shall we. You've found nothing except a patronising tone to address my arguments. You mention football. Do you really think that the world championships is just about athletic ability and not the millions invested in the sport in richer countries. Why do you think Bangladesh has never won the title, you fucking moron.

R104 that's the stupidest argument I've heard yet. "Athletics aren't totally equal because not everyone has equal circumstances", is not the same as separating sports by a huge known differences caused by biological SEX. There is no nutrition, coaching, or whatever, that will make being female equal to being male, because that's impossible.

You are advocating for the erasure of women and girls athletics, that only exist as they do now, because that was fought for back when there were none.

The anatomical differences are related to biological reproductive roles that can not be coached away. There's nothing "patriarchal" about this biological fact. There's a reason the top female athletes in the world wouldn't make it into competition if it was not separated by sex.

Nutrition, race, coaching, or whatever excuse you are using to screw over women, will not change pelvic tilt, lung size, heart size and function, double upper body strength, muscle fiber structure, bone structure, and so on.

You're being willfully ignorant and I think you know this.

R114 - some more hyperbole and nonsense. They want us all dead now. If we disagree, we're supporting the far right.

You really need some education because you're an absolute idiot.

R112, the “Miz” was right, though.... Pronouns are not really comparable to that. Women wanted a title that didn’t indicate their marital status.

Pronouns are a request, these days a demand, to override material reality and in many cases the evidence’s of one senses, in order to be polite, which is a bit different. Many people will do this, I would, but it’s a courtesy and it doesn’t mean anyone thinks someone really is a man or a woman or non-binary or whatever. Insisting that they do deny reality is not going to go well, I would guess, once people realise what’s really being asked of them.

r111 I think actual, physical membership cards are a thing in non-US democracies. In the US of course party identification is much more nebulous, with people "registering" or not with parties on a whim. In the UK they actually have to pay dues (I think) to their party and do get a physical card.

My dear father donated 10 cents to the republican party of illinois his entire life because as he said "they have to pay more in postage sending me their dumb mailers each year." I don't think that works in the UK the same way, but it is a funny story that I fondly recall!

R116 - Block R104 and reads his comments on this thread. He's all over the place. He's just being contrary now.

He's a troll, supporting both sides in this thread.

R115, put a random Bangladesh man with minimal training against a US or European-trained woman in the 100m and see who wins.

You don’t even believe what you’re arguing.

R116 There's a huge known difference in performance caused by wealth and by genetics. Why do we not have competitive divisions based on those? It's privilege blindness to think those advantages don’t exist.

Makes sense R120. Only a troll, radical transactivist or utter drooling moron could support males competing against females.

R121 Are you really that dumb? You've made my point for me.

Lol, no I didn’t R124. Nice try trolling though.

R120 I'm not trolling. I said It was about looking at the other point of view, not being trapped in a particular worldview. Of course there are biological differences between the sexes. But there's a larger societal context too.

What R116 said. Your mind is in disagreement with your body - that's what it comes down to.

Women have lower strength because biologically, they were meant to carry children - Transmen were, too, before they mutilated their bodies due to their minds saying their bodies are wrong.

R118 I know the Miz vs Miss argument was a weak one, but I was getting my ass kicked and couldn't come up with anything else.

I don't want to see trans people stepped on, like what Jordan Peterson did to make himself a hero of the right.

They deserve the gay communities help in their fight, but at the same time I'm worried that we're the ones who are going to suffer because straight people lump us all together.

One guy said he wants to see a push back against gay rights because we're pushing people too far. He didn't write trans rights--he wrote gay rights. He wants us to suffer politically because we aligned ourselves with the trans community. That worried me immensely.

R121 Has it correct. Being critical of harmful policies, that are fact, is not the same as killing trans people in ovens. It's really disgusting and insulting to compare this criticism to Jewish genocide.

Why can't supporters of the toxic parts of this movement be honest and use arguments that can stand up to criticism, without appropriating the struggles of other groups? Your excuses and usage of actual atrocities committed against Jewish people, to support males displacing females in sports, is sickening.

R120 I tried blocking you and found it made no difference. An empty taxi drew up and R120 got out...

[quote]Obviously nobody is going to transition just to have a sports career

Aaaaaaand, they aren't. None of these low life cheats is "transitioning" in any real, physical sense. They are growing their hair long and declaring themselves to be women. You don't get to suddenly call yourself a woman because you claim to "feel" like one.

And if you've never been a woman, you have no idea what that feels like anyway. So how can you claim you are one just because you "feel" like you are?

What a scam. SMH that so many cowards in the media and in positions of authority are falling for it.

R126 - you ARE trolling. Here are your previous posts:

"Germaine Greer nails it, spot on"

"R64 Renee was a college tennis champion. She was in her 40s when she joined the women’s tour. Martina Navratilova who was #1 at the time said she had a tough time beating her and a young transitioned Renee would have whipped all their asses. Renee said that herself. Martina employed Renee as her coach so it wasn’t like there was any animosity or prejudice there. They are both just being truthful and real."

Now you're twisting this around and devolving the conversation about fairness in sports and the different types of equality. So what do you believe now? That trans have an advantage or not in sports and shouldn't be in women's competitions?

Any farmer would be lucky to have her as a wife to help out around the place.

I support trans rights R128, and believe dysphoria must be awful to experience. “Trans” has however come to mean whatever the person who identifies as trans says it does, rather than acute discomfort with one’s body. It fundamentally no longer really makes sense, and is bringing in all kinds of issues of how men and women relate to one another, why women have the spaces and protected sports etc that they do, how homophobia interacts with misogyny and sometimes comes out with a trans identity, how young people who feel socially isolated look for an answer to their coming of age challenges, and lots of other consequences that I don’t think any of us could have foreseen. I will continue to support trans people but there are very obvious misogynists just latching onto trans causes to dump on women, including a lot of straight women who are taking a reasonable delight in the whole thing.

The LGBT community will not do this, and will fracture as a result, but as a group we should of course say, “trans women should not be in women’s sports unless and until the science supports their having no advantage at all, bearing in mind why women’s sport was created.” We should also say of course, for example, that kids should not be pushed into a trans identity way before it would ever be considered reasonable for them to have a gay (or straight) one.

Like I say, the “vocal” element of our community won’t do this and the end result will be the dropping of all Ts (even the ones who are for real) but not before a political, sociological and legislative backlash against all LGBT. Telfer’s win is a warning about this, but it will still all play out badly for all of us.

Ha I meant straight MEN are dumping on women (the misgendering!!!) but to be honest, some women are throwing other women under the bus too. Any woman who uses the term “TERF” for example.

R121 The Bangladeshi Male 100m national record (held by Mohammad Hasan Mia) is 10.61, clocked in August 2019. The US and world Female record of 10.49 was clocked in 1988. So you have made my point. The difference is HUGE. There are other factors that have equal or greater impact on athletic performance that we are blind to. Because it's a matter of national pride, for one reason.

[quote] establish a third category for athletes who identify as trans

While that may seem like a fair and reasonable compromise, it will never be accepted by the members of the trans community and their supporters. The whole point of them being included in women’s athletics is to prove to the world that they are women. Real, honest-to-goodness women. Like your mother, your sisters, and your aunts. A separate category would upset that carefully constructed artifice and give lie to the narrative that has — bizarrely — taken hold.

Men have a natural athletic advantage — which is precisely why men and women have developed separate sports leagues and teams to reflect and respect that difference. This current madness is nothing more than an attempt to bend logic and science to fit a changing social norm that is now in fashion.

And yes, most of us have to muffle our true feelings about this insanity, because even a whiff of deviation from the accepted agenda is sufficient enough to be labeled “transphobic,” with the attendant consequences.

Oh R136 I see, you deliberately chose one of the lowest ranked athletic countries to make me look stupid. I get it. Ok. Fair play. Unlike men in women’s sport.

But to go back to my analogy, here’s the US Women’s team getting beaten by schoolboys.

"There's a larger societal context", no, there really isn't. Those social hurdles you keep depending on, are things society have ways to remedy, to continue to level the playing field. This is impossible with anatomical differences due to biological sex. How do you not understand this?

In fact, those potential athletes, that don't have equal resources to compete (the same ones you keep using to justify this toxic crap), will definitely never get a chance no matter what they do now, or ever, all thanks to this recent cognitive dissonance.

The real irony of being labeled "privileged" for criticism towards using social hurdles as an excuse, is that it takes privilege to screw over an entire sex, and have people backing this every step of the way.

I don't hate transpeople and if you want to live as one, I don't care, but when you want to also set the rules for the overwhelming majority of human kind, then fuck you. If I'm a man or a woman, I'm not going to be made to feel ashamed of calling myself one and don't expect hetero men attracted to women who were BORN women to want to be with you and try and make it a crime when they don't.

It seems your minds are underdeveloped when it comes to maturity and selflessness in accepting other people are allowed to be who they want to be, too, transpeople.

R7 wins 1st prize in the asshole category.

R132 My personal belief and position is that we should be aiming for as equal a playing field as possible in sports. So I'm against trans women competing against biological women because they have an unfair physical advantage. But I'm trying to understand the opposing viewpoint too. Being devil’s Advocaat if you like. And the truth is that focusing just on that one aspect (m/f) divide in an arena that is intrinsically unfair can be problematic. Let's also have a look at the other factors that impact on athletic performance and try to take in the wider picture.

R134 I received a PM from a male member of the forum who said he fully supported the trans community until he and his wife took their son to a therapist because he was being bullied at school.

He's clearly a gayling who likes cooking and fashion and has more female friends than male.

He told the therapist that some days he wished he was a girl so the other kids would stop bullying him for liking girl things.

Of course the therapist declared the boy trans and wanted to pursue that.

The parents disagreed and took him to a different therapist who disagreed with the first therapist and worked with the boy to give him the tools to deal with the bullying.

Now this guy completely opposes anything dealing with trans people. He didn't come right out and say it, but i suspect he has a very low opinion of us too.

R138 - yeah, this poster is obsessed with trying to 'educate' us about the explicit unfairness in sports. He thinks he's smart and wants to prove it, even though his arguments have nothing to do with the topic and he previously posted that transwomen are not women and that Martina was right.

Whoever you are posting about Bangladesh and all the other non-related topics, do you feel smart now? You feel validated yet R142?

Because you're been an annoying contrarian and haven't informed us of anything. Hope you are done.

I suffer acute discomfort from the balance in my savings account. So, I have chosen to identify as a billionaire.

Chase Bank, meanwhile, continues to ignore this and my feelings remain invalidated by the balance available each time I check.

Actually, R136, I’m not as stupid as I seem. Wasn’t that 10.49 the only time a woman has EVER been recorded at below 10.60? (And for that reason there’s some suspicion over it)?

Whereas terrible old Bangladesh is already at 10.61 despite being behind in all that training.

Now you’ve proven MY point.

R138;I didn’t actually. I brought up Bangladesh in the context of football. You took it to athletics. Own goal? Anyway, I take your point.

R146 Yep, Griffiths Joyner had access to doping and training methods that the Bangladeshi guy doesn’t. My point is just that there are huge imbalances and unfairness in sport that we are defending as the status quo.

R136: I'm sure you know the Florence Griffits record is suspicious and that she is the only one who came close to those marks, so that doesn't prove your point at all

That’s right R147, I took it to football. You’re still wrong that women can compete against men, see my reply R146.

So the only people who can argue that are trolls, morons, radical transactivists and “devil’s advocates.” Sounds like a great reason to turn over women’s sports to failed male athletes!

Lol R148. You don’t care about any of women’s sport, trans women, or even the point you’re making.

R149 It still stands as the US and World record. My point stands. And I know a fuckload more about this subject than the lot of you.

R143, I honestly think we have gone backwards in terms of gender stereotypes. It seems therapists and teachers are “on guard” for kids displaying “trans“ tendencies, even though many will be gay or bisexual and some even straight, once they finish growing up.

I would advise any friend with a child getting that kind of diagnosis to get at least a second and probably a third opinion. I think we are pathologizing normal childhood exploratory behavior.

The LGBT community should be absolutely clear that we support gender-non-conforming kids but not the medicalising of normal kids’ behavior. We don’t do that though.

R152 even when you swear and throw insults, you can find ONE, thirty year old, questionable record of a woman running a 100m time which it seems many men who are not near the top of the world rankings, can run fairly easily. You’ve proven absolutely nothing.

It's horrific that we're headed to the year 2020 and there's people pretending they don't know what the problem is with males playing in female athletics. Am I in the Twilight zone? Does this really need debate?

This new push to pretend there's no sex differences means taking away the ability to legally, politically, or socially define vulnerable people. This means consequences for defining anything on the basis of sex; same sex attraction, keeping statistics, separate spaces, like athletics, medical care, and whatever else depends on knowing a person's sex.

Trans people deserve the SAME human rights as anyone else. That's a given. By not fighting for themselves as a definable group, they hurt themselves and other groups, intentionally or not. This is not what fighting for equal rights looks like.

Oh, R152, except that men shouldn’t be in women’s sports, because that even with no doubt superior nutrition, training and facilities that you waxed lyrical about, top US, Caribbean and European women still can’t run the same time as a guy from Bangladesh.

.R154 You don't seem able to follow an argument. I'm not saying that biological women in general are a match for biological men. I am arguing that biological difference between the sexes is just one of many unfair advantages in sport. Some of those, i.e. access to dope and better training methods, are so great that they can EVEN outstrip the biological sex difference, as in this case. But we pay no attention to those other imbalances and are happy for them to be perpetuated. Why?

R152 is still at it. See - he knows a lot more than the rest of us!!

Oh - and his first post in this thread was that the trans person had no physical advantage over the women. Now he changes his tune.

Face it - you're just an argumentative asshole.

Where did I put my troll-be-gone? Trollin' trollin' trollin', keep those trolls a-goin'!

One thing that bothers me about the debate I had on that forum was that I lost a lot of forum friends because they now view me as militant and one of the people trying to force trans-think down their throats.

When I hear older gay men bitching and complaining that the younger gay community is too pushy and they proudly proclaim that they are not part of [bold]that[/bold] community and that we're causing more harm than good I get angry and want to tell them off. But at the same time I agree with them.

I hate that some gay people have decided to cut themselves off from the gay community to appease their straight friends and family because they believe that's what makes them appear normal in the eyes of those people.

R157, you’ve admitted being a “devil’s advocate”, on the internet sometimes entirely the same as a “troll.”

But you can’t be as dense as your posts suggest. So, I think you know the key point here. Let’s try it again.

Doping is banned, officially. Let’s put that to one side.

No training method can train women to compete in any meaningful way against men. It CAN improve women’s relative performance against each other. So we segregate sports by sex and have meaningful competition that way.

You can take a top female athlete and give her the best training, and she can still lose to an average male one.

Hence why Telfer would be on a podium, or McKinnon, even though they would be hopeless competing against men.

But you know this.

R158 God you're dim. Didn’t you see the image I chose to go with that comment? There's a thing called irony. Of course there's a physical advantage to being born male. But there’s also an advantage to being born American (in most sports), to being wealthy, to having good genetics, having a particular body type. Sport is unfair. So why do we focus on this one m/f imbalance? How many world records do you think have been achieved in athletics due to unfair societal advantages and how many due to trans-gression into female sports?

You are a troll, R161. A slightly more sophisticated one than most, but a troll. I doubt your intention was ever to support trans people, but rest assured you’re not doing so in any way.

Doping is banned, officially. Let’s put that to one side.

No, let's not put that to one side. It's endemic to sports and the richer have the means to hide it better.

Doping is not relevant to fair competitive sport, just like men in women’s competitions really.

You're saying I'm a troll but I'm a huge sports fan, especially women’s athletics. I can give you chapter and verse on all the athletes back to Irene Szewinska. It matters to me a lot. But it's not a simple issue.

R129: Oh do shut up, MARY! Jews, Roma, HOMOSEXUALS were all put into the ovens. It wasn't a Jewish only thing. Learn some actual history on who was killed before opening a fat mouth.

For the final goddamn time, I'm speaking specifically to the argument that us gays MUST drop the trans because of reasons. They want us all dead, if you make it easier for them to kill the trans, it'll be easier when they come for us next, just like the Nazis did, R129. God you people go out of your way to be obtuse.

“It’s not simple” trolling about a simple, very binary, issue, eh, R165.

R156 it's sad you need to point out reality due to this nonsense. Even a "devil's advocate" should understand that some athletics have had an open policy for both sexes (some mens athletics would accept women), but there's never been women entering, let alone dominating them.

Since the recent acceptance and changes, it's apparent even middle aged men on hormones, can place in womens sports. There's a reason several women's records, in various competitions, been beaten by males, at all levels. This is no one off; it's a pattern.

But sure, let's go farther "devil's advocate" and support this trend. Worst part? When womens sports end up ruined, because they've turned into a joke, the same supporters won't give a shit for all the women and girls that will lose out. Those trans athletes won't give a shit either, because anyone with the gaul to pull this, is the "if I can't have it, no one else can" type. Think I'm wrong? Not a peep from trans activists about bathrooms turning "gender neutral", even though it was argued to be about safety. As long as there's no separate space for women, that's good enough.

CeCe has an impressive record as a woman athlete. She could coach other women as a career.

Different tactic by R169. Probably same troll.

R168 I prefer the term devil's Advocaat, like the disgusting drink, don’t feel you need to keep showing me the correct spelling. It's like you can only state one position here, you're not allowed to develop an argument or explore avenues. So I can only repeat yet again: yes, agreed that trans women have on the whole an unfair advantage over biological women in sports. Yes, agreed they shouldn’t be competing to the detriment of women’s sport. And, this is the real point, let's also consider the many other unfair aspects of sport that were seemingly blind to, not just this single issue which, in reality, has had almost no impact at all on sports to date. Get some perspective.

Caitlyn won the Olympic triathlon and broke records. She was famous world-wide. She was on Wheaties boxes. And she did this competing and beating the best MEN from everywhere.

R166: "For the final goddamn time, I'm speaking specifically to the argument that us gays MUST drop the trans because of reasons. They want us all dead, if you make it easier for them to kill the trans, it'll be easier when they come for us next, just like the Nazis did"

Yes, because using your brain to criticize real discrepancies within the modern trans movement is wanting them DEAD and KILLING them. 🙄 Concerns over a movement making questionable choices is never ever allowed. Got it.

There's a reason some of the most homophobic parts of the globe, with the death penalty for homosexuality, happen to happily offer transition as an alternative to death. Clearly they're not regarded as being the same.

R161 "How many world records do you think have been achieved in athletics due to unfair societal advantages and how many due to trans-gression into female sports?"

Well, since you asked...

Real women need to refuse to compete against MTFs.

R161 enjoy this, with the obvious gloating title: "The glorious victories of trans athletes are shaking up sports"

Trans "woman" are not women.

Just stop buying into this. I'ts bullshit.

All women can be proud.

Aww, so "unfair" right? How many could there be though??

Awww he's world champion and it's just those mean people that don't like it.

A real "conundrum" they say...

Bauru volleyball player Tiffany Abreu celebrates with teammates in Brazil on Dec. 19, 2017. Abreu became the first transgender volleyball player in the top women's volleyball league in 2017.

The top league? Seems legit.

R174 Exactly, big fat zero. None, it's had no real impact. In reality it's a tiny issue compared with all the other imbalances in sport. But it's a peg for the self-righteous cunts on here, who know fuck all about sport, to hang their trans obsessions on. But if you point that out you're a “troll”.

More kissing ass

Looks real fair, no?

More world records at risk!

Rugby referees in the UK would rather quit their jobs rather than watch male players who identify as females injure and maim actual female players. The Sunday Times reported that the fear of "being sued as more men claim to be women join the women's leagues and end up hurting natural-born female contestants with their strength and speed" has led to their decision to resign rather than take the liability.

The refs also report that they have been warned not to question even bearded men for fear of being seen as non-inclusive. Women's rugby does have a testosterone limit, but instead of testing the participants, refs are told to take the transgender athletes at their word.

"Transgender sprinters finish 1st, 2nd at Connecticut girls indoor track championships"

More records made, how inspirational!

[quote][R158] God you're dim. Didn’t you see the image I chose to go with that comment? There's a thing called irony. Of course there's a physical advantage to being born male. But there’s also an advantage to being born American (in most sports), to being wealthy, to having good genetics, having a particular body type. Sport is unfair. So why do we focus on this one m/f imbalance? How many world records do you think have been achieved in athletics due to unfair societal advantages and how many due to trans-gression into female sports?

r161, how about this? As we all (including you?) agree that transwomen (aka biological men) shouldn't be competing against women, let's just ban that first. Once that's sorted we'll then crack right on with ensuring that every athlete from every country has access to the exact same quality of resources and training, k? Also, oh wise devil's advocate, you ever notice there isn't a concern about transmen (aka biological women) snatching medals, records, scholarships and endorsements from men? I wonder why that could be? Strange.

R189 We're in a world where an American woman has held the world 100m record for over 30 years and everyone knows she was doped to the eyeballs and on a national doping programme. But that's fine, let's obsess on a few trans athletes in college events or over 35 categories, that's the urgent issue to tackle. FFS.

It will have to get worse before it gets better. Men should be encouraged to compete in all women’s events and take all the medals. Only then will there be sufficient outcry to do something to keep men out of women’s sports.

But there was one problem. The race website made clear that, to ensure integrity, runners’ identities would be subject to strict scrutiny. Romer, who is transgender, hadn’t yet changed her ID. So in February of 2017, she took the required paperwork to the Illinois Secretary of State’s Office and walked out with a government-issued document labeled “female.”

The switch allowed Romer to race in Geneva the same way she lives the rest of her life. “I am not male,” she said. “I will never ever run a race again as male. It’s humiliating and painful.”

Yeah! Get over it bitches! Who cares if he hid his sex and broke one womans skull? Just get over it.

R187 HOLY FUCK! That's scary.

Lol R190 tries another tack by doing a 180.

Kudos to the fact-poster in here with the articles.

"While detractors focus on medals and ribbons, trans athletes participate in sports because it affirms them as people."

STFU about athletic fairness at all, it's all meant to "affirm them as people".

R190 "But that's fine, let's obsess on a few trans athletes in college events or over 35 categories, that's the urgent issue to tackle. FFS."

You're lying out your ass. There's real concern with Olympic teams, in several categories, that already put males on them. Even left sources have begun to sweat over what it'll look like and what it could lead to.

This is the exact path asshole supporters take everytime. First they say advantages aren't enough, then it turns to claiming they'll be a minority, so no big deal, then they try to deflect...

But as the quote above reveals, they just don't give a shit about women and girls sports being destroyed. They'll defend cheating males trampling over women, because to them it "isn't urgent".

Don't cry when ignorance and denial come to bite you in the ass.

R195 You're the one who keeps tacking in different directions. You said: “Put a random Bangladesh man with minimal training against a US or European-trained woman in 100m and see who wins”. Which demonstrated your complete ignorance of athletics since an American-trained/doped woman ran faster than the fastest Bangladeshi man over 30 years ago. When I point that out you move on to other points ASAP. And you’re not bothered that the world record is tainted by drug taking because it's a real woman and, most importantly, an American woman.

How do you think a Bangladeshi female athlete is going to do against a US trained female athlete of today? ‘Like with like' (hardly). Not well, I can tell you. And why aren’t you bothered by that inequity but get your knickers in a twist because some trans woman won a trivial college event?

R198 give it up already, will you? We know you find it all "trivial" by how dumb you keep playing. Too bad sources show it isn't just college sports, but really, what kind of asshole defends this with that excuse? It's no big deal to screw over women, but obviously you care enough to defend it with your endless excuses.

You're a joke.

r198, are you willing to address any of my questions at r189? Or is your position that we should somehow fix all doping issues and all worldwide economic/resources/training inequalities known and unknown before dealing with the basic sex differences between men and women? I know you'll come up with some other bullshit excuse and this exchange would all be really entertaining if it wasn't for the fundamental unfairness and disregard for female athletes who have dedicated their lives to their chosen sport.

R198 people with critical thinking skills won't fall for your lame attempts at trying to change the focus. You and your ilk already had this topic grayed out asap, so yay, you win!!! You have a great future in moving goalposts.

R200 You give it a rest. You've already shown you know next to nothing about athletics, so how much do you really care? Answer my points about the wider societal issues here and we can have a proper discussion but I'm not hanging around to hear you bang the same drum over and over. My position since you keep asking is a) there are biological differences between male and female born athletes b) I don’t think trans women athletes should compete against biological women in adult/national competition, so yes that should be banned imo, c) less bothered by school or college level events. But I would also point out that there are more significant inequities, imbalances and unfairness intrinsic in competitive sport that have had greater effect and that we seem perfectly comfortable with and blind to, such that even alluding to them raises hackles. If that's trolling, fine, I thought it was debate.

[quote]I received a PM from a male member of the forum

MURIEL! I demand that these features whereby members of the forum can identify forum posters and write private messages to them be IMMEDIATELY made available to me.

Otherwise you are denying my human rights and it is LITERAL VIOLENCE.

I think this gets heated because athletics is tribal and top athletes are emblematic of the tribe. Hence the whole Olympics nationalism thing, opening ceremony, medal tables, national anthems etc. America is proud to be top of the medals table and wants to believe this was achieved fair and square, that it represents the superiority of their nation, values etc. Regardless of the fact that the deck is hugely stacked in their favour and it's not really about 'natural' competition, level playing fields etc.

My sense is that it matters so much to trans people for the same reason - it's emblematic of their acceptance in society. They aren’t out to cheat or make a fortune, it's about acceptance.

R198 has an anti-social disorder. He keeps conflating topics, switching his position, hurling insults, and keeps saying how smart he is.

See a therapist please. You must not have any friends and you are seriously screwed up.

R205 When someone has no answer to an argument, it's always ad hominem bitching and 'seek help'. I had a quick look at your posts and it's all anger at being thought stupid. Maybe you need to pick up on something there.

R206 - LOL - you keep going. There is no 'answer' to your argument as your argument is about a larger topic of unfairness in all sports, which should have been put into a separate thread as it really isn't about trans females competing in female sport.

But that's not what you wanted to discuss - you've been all over the place saying the trans person didn't have any physical advantages, then saying it's not a big deal because it's not impacting a lot of women, then saying they shouldn't compete with women, then switching to national patriotism and doping.

None of my posts had anything about 'being thought stupid'. That's you deflecting. You're just pissed because I called out your trolling. Again, anti-social behavior. Do yourself a favor and see a therapist. Getting negative feedback here and trying to prove you're smart (which you've said twice in this thread already) isn't going to fix your underlying asshole behavior.

The black athlete with the dreads i.s a MAN

What's funny is that the same Republicans who hate trans people also hate Megan Rapinoe

R207 “you've been all over the place saying the trans person didn't have any physical advantages”

Let me explain. I said that once, at the start of the thread. I was making an IRONIC joke, pointed up by attaching a pic where she towers over her competitors and looks like a man. It was a cheap shot but anyone with a brain cell would get it. I've explained my position a few times now, it's perfectly coherent, sorry if it goes over your head.

And yes, your posts are all about your rage at being thought stupid. Sorry about that.

R30, true liberals don't hate trans people and would never agree with you.

Only stupid straight rednecks hate trans people. These are the same people who hate gays and vote against gay rights

R197 = Trump

R191, in reality, the number of men in women's sports is tiny. And will always be since only a small number of people identify as trans

R210 - yep, once again saying that you're smart and other people are stupid. Plenty of people have replied with questions about your statements and reasoning - not me. You've not convinced anyone, yet you keep going. That is anti-social behavior.

You have not been coherent - all you have done is troll for the past few hours.

R175 = most "real women" aren't hateful Republicans like you. Thank God

R211 Fuck all to do with hate..

It's to do with a clear physical advantage over a biological woman. Just as my cat sleeping with my dog in the kennel doesn't make it a dog.

R34 thinks twitter is a lynch mob, but not prejudiced Republicans who hate trans people as well as gay people. That's the mob I'm really scared of. Freepers and self-loathing gays who support them are scary

R83 God women are so self-defeating.

R214 Not saying I'm smart or others stupid . I’m saying that you're stupid and it bothers you.

LOL at the Republicans pretending to care about "misogyny"

Yet they continue to claim women suck at sports and can't compete with men. So progressive.

[Quote]why aren’t you bothered by that inequity but get your knickers in a twist because some trans woman won a trivial college event?

Just to piggyback on r199, that is whataboutism. Deflecting and minimizing is all you have for a defense. Trivial? You have some goddamn nerve.

R221 is a Republican who trolls on a gay board, and yet attacks other. The hilarity of right-wingers pretending to care about women's rights.

R221 Trans-gression in women’s sport is a much less significant issue than say doping in terms of real impact and inequity. That's putting it into perspective. I'm not for trans women competing at top level for obvious reasons but it's not the most pressing issue facing athletics. Americans don’t like to hear that because they defend the status quo and the US medals haul. Your world record holder in the 100m was a known drugs cheat but her record has been allowed to stand for 30 years.

MTF trans are so gross. You can’t hide your gender - we all notice

R213, once again, even though you’re a troll, but for the record. Even one woman losing funding, a sports scholarship, a medal, a podium finish or her rightful finishing place in an event because a man has dysphoric feelings is wrong. You give no good reason why women should accept it, probably because there aren’t any.

Trans women deserve respect, sympathy and legal protections. They do not deserve participating in women’s sport at women’s expense. If women have to accept “women with penises” in their bathrooms, then trans women have to accept they can only compete in male events. Without compromise, watch trans rights get rolled back and the gay community be affected too.

As I write this, you add two more troll posts with different opinions... don’t forget to go back and give them each that one like.

R224, Republicans like you are so gross. You can't hide your bigotry - we all notice

You probably posted R224 yourself, R226.

r100, Bravo. You should be the Surgeon General already.

R225 You're confused. R223 and R213 are not the same poster. That probably explains why you think they’re contradictory and trolling.

I didn’t mean those two posts, R229, not sure why you singled those out.

The shit will hit the fan on this issue eventually, right now these men are winning in sports where theres not a huge following to cause much of a commotion, sports like biking, weight lifting and off year track and field. The day the 300th ranked male tennis player decides to compete on the womens circuit and dominates is when your average person will have to face this issue and i doubt they'll be happy.

R230 Which posts did you mean then? Because you've been calling me a troll repeatedly and you also called R213 a troll. We're not the same person. Anyone with a different view from you is a troll?

R226, I’m liberal

R225 / R230 Don't lie. You specified R213, that's why I singled it out, because you did! Duh. So what other posts were you referring to?

"The day the 300th ranked male tennis player decides to compete on the womens circuit and dominates is when your average person will have to face this issue and i doubt they'll be happy."

Average people don't give a shit about tennis. And I love the idea that people think men who aren't trans are having sex changes just so they can compete as women. LOL.

r235 Sure jan no one cares about Tennis

Sure jan, there are men who are going to the trouble of having a sex change just to win some sporting event as a female. You sound like the homophobes who thought gay marriage would lead to tons of straight men pretending to be gay to get gay married

Do you have to have a sex change operation? Why can't you just declare yourself a woman?

Yes, because obviously straight men are DYING to be thought of as "not a real man"

Let CeCe just Ride On Time

[quote]"While detractors focus on medals and ribbons, trans athletes participate in sports because it affirms them as people."

One would think they would be much more fulfilled by participating in beauty pageants.

Let's see how that goes.

You don't have to have a sex change - you can keep your beard, dick and balls and just say you are a woman. Most of them do just that.

CeCe could model as well.

[quote]Sure jan, there are men who are going to the trouble of having a sex change just to win some sporting event as a female.

Dimwit, no one is transing in any real sense. They are growing their hair. That is all.

CeCe is a nice woman and a very successful athlete.

[quote]Only stupid straight rednecks hate trans people. These are the same people who hate gays and vote against gay rights

No one "hates" trans or gays. You sound like a 13 y/o girl with all the "hate" talk. And you're very naive if you think it's just rednecks who refuse to get on board this crazy train. LOL. Literally everyone knows trans are mentally ill and in desperate need of therapy to accept themselves. Just like the nutters who want to chop off their limbs so they can "feel right in their own bodies". There is NO DIFFERENCE.

Normal, everyday people of every kind of background know that trans is not normal. Even most of your friends, although they may not openly admit it.

Why do so many male athletes pretending to be women so they can win trophies, medals, prize money and attention have purple hair and nerd girl glasses.

How quaint that anyone thinks trans still have “sex changes.”

r246, perhaps someone who repeats right wing talking points shouldn't be accusing other people of being dumb or childish. Smart people admit that being a Republican is not normal. The same Republicans who freak out over trans people are the ones who wanted to ban gay marriage and gays in the military. You sound so stupid - saying you don't "hate" trans people while calling them "nutters" and "not normal"

So funny. Lots of homophobic straight Republicans think gays are "nutters" and mentally ill

It's hysterical how the dumbest people try to accuse others of being dumb. You can't even make a coherent argument. If you want to insist you don't hate trans people, try harder not to hurl insults at them.

R248: Real transgenders change their sex because they feel trapped in the wrong body. Of course right now there are lot of people who claim to be transgender that are not really transgender.

Now it's about trans athletes but it'll be problems with non binary too (even if people who identify as non binary are very small in numbers), because sometimes more than compete you want the headlines

r58, Semenya (ironic name, no?) is not a proven "biological female" (look at this person, FGS):

The combination of her rapid athletic progression and her appearance culminated in the IAAF asking her to take a sex verification test to ascertain whether she was female.[29][30] The IAAF says it was "obliged to investigate" after she made improvements of 25 seconds at 1500 m and eight seconds at 800 m – "the sort of dramatic breakthroughs that usually arouse suspicion of drug use".[31]

The sex test results were never published officially, but some results were leaked in the press and were widely discussed, resulting in at the time unverified claims about Semenya having an intersex trait.[32][33] (wikipedia)

[quote]Real transgenders change their sex because they feel trapped in the wrong body.

Real Apotemnophiliacs go to Korea to get back ally amputations. They get their arms and legs chop off because they feel trapped in a wrong body.

R252 what a stupid comment that doesn't add anything to the conversation

FYI- Caster Semenya is a biological male with undescended testes. Semenya does not have ovaries, a uterus, or XX chromosomes. He has a DSD (disorder of sexual development) which has caused him to have some superficially female characteristics; he is not a woman.

R250, where are all these people falsely claiming to be transgender? Are they in neverland hanging out with all the straight guys who pretended to be gay to get gay married?

The number of men competing in women's sports is minuscule

[quote]Literally everyone knows trans are mentally ill and in desperate need of therapy to accept themselves. Just like the nutters who want to chop off their limbs so they can "feel right in their own bodies". There is NO DIFFERENCE.

There are mentally unhealthy people in every demographic and socio-economic level. A psychotherapist you are not.

R255 see everyone, doesn't matter if it's happening and some records are broken. It's not that many! I see the trans shill can't have a genuine conversation about wher it's ok or not all they have is deception and distractions to offer.

R255 I linked a ton of cases and there's several articles written about how bad the upcoming Olympics will be, since other countries are filling their teams with men. You have the internet, use it, instead of speaking out of your asshole.

Former male soccer player on women's USA volleyball

For the Olympics asshole at r255

B-bb-but that never happens! And it's minuscule anyway! And it's just lower level womens sports!

So damn progressive r255!

The new trans orthodoxy is scaring even the most stalwart of organisations into silence.

But you keep defending it r255 because it's no big deal.

The new trans orthodoxy is scaring even the most stalwart of organisations into silence.

But you keep defending it r255 because it's no big deal.

Across the U.S. and in many places abroad, transgender athletes are breaking barriers in high school, college and pro sports and being embraced by teammates and fans. But resentments can still flare when TRANSGENDER WOMEN START WINNING AND DOMINATING their sport.

Wonder why that's a problem? Hmm

R255, if you’re a man, and I’m going to lay some money that you are, it really is not up to you to nod and smile and wave away women’s competitive sport even to the detriment of one woman.

As has been said several times, no women should lose out to men who have a condition that makes them think they’re women. Because that’s what we are talking about, let’s be clear, and it isn’t fair. Stop giving away the spoils of women’s hard-won fights because you personally don’t give a shit. Thank you.

What a surprise. This thread is going to be disappeared any minute now. Isn't it weird you guys that there is someone out there we don't even know making these decisions without any explanation? I find it frankly creepy

It’s also worth bearing in mind for those who jump from “no women will be affected anyway” to “it’s a minuscule number” that we are right at the beginning of it being legally, and for Olympics and other sporting regulations purposes, accepted that “trans” doesn’t involve sex change surgery.

Even some posters above were confused (truly or performatively) about that. “Oh no-one would chop their dick off to compete as a woman...” Um yeah well, they don’t have to.

She's on board.

No male competitive athlete who watched the Jazz Jennings saga would undergo that surgery, for it would put a screeching halt to any sports dreams.

r264, thank you.

X hate

Outsports editor offers a “reasoned response” re transgender athletes. It’s right there in the introduction that Outsports think their own piece is reasoned, but then Outsports think men can actually be, rather than than socially be treated as, woman, so...

“Dear TERFS,” this very reasoned response begins. It goes on to object to trans women being called trans.

It goes on to parrot all of the usual pro-trans drivel for paragraph after paragraph. It even repeats the utterly deluded fantasy that most people, even gynecologists, can’t tell a woman from a post-op trans woman “at first glance.” I would love someone to finally try and give a source for that one. Absolutely hilarious if it weren’t a) so sad and b) so bad for women’s sport that these views get any credence.

It invokes race, which trans activists love to do because it seems like a great argument, not realising what it really says about them and their viewpoints that they go there.

It specifically names two women the editor got into Twitter arguments with and notes one of them has a child experiencing some gender confusion (hey, isn’t that Outsports outing someone? I mean, even though it’s written on the internet already. Trans logic 101). Hmm, why would someone with a big platform name two women he had fights with online, what’s he trying to achieve? For legal reasons I won’t suggest motivation but draw your own conclusions.

Reading this back I’ve just realised that without meaning to, I have misgendered the editor in the above paragraph, but my brain is just telling me it’s a man and can’t be persuaded not to do so when I type naturally so I’ll leave it as is.

THIS is where “trans women are women” gets us. It’s time to drop that mantra and think about the real situations where trans rights conflict with women’s rights, and sometimes men’s rights too. Most rational people entirely agree but don’t want their names in an Outsports op-ed.

Outsports Don/Dawn/Don/Dawn has also posted about being too broke to afford tampons. This person is obviously in the grip of some sort of mental health problem and has zero credibility, zilch, nada.

When people say they want to engage or have a dialogue, it means they just want to lecture you until you 100% adopt their beliefs. Dawn will never be open to acknowledging that trans people will always have the bodies they were born and went through puberty with and that it’s inherently unfair to use what was a male body against females in female bodies in a sporting event.

[quote] When people say they want to engage or have a dialogue, it means they just want to lecture you until you 100% adopt their beliefs.

That's kind of my view on the anti-trans.

They don't want to acknowledge that there exists a biological and social definition of the term 'woman'.

R274, no. It is extreme trans activists who (unlike many actual trans people) refuse to acknowledge that distinction.

We do say 'Woman' though. And when we hear that we think of certain things.

We don't describe ourselves as XX havers or XY havers.

Megan Rapinoe is exactly where she deserves to be. She has repeatedly defended the concept of biological males who think that they’re women competing in women’s sports.

Never mind the fact that if biological males had been allowed to compete in women’s sports when she was in high school and college, Megan Rapinoe wouldn’t have a career.

It doesn’t matter if “woman” is conceded as a term. “Female” will go next. The objection is to anyone ever noticing that trans women differ from actual women. That’s right, I said “actual women” because that’s reality. It is patently ludicrous to insist that no-one ever notice or voice the difference in sport, relationships, healthcare etc etc.

It is eminently reasonable and must be right to ask that trans women be treated with dignity and respect. That simply doesn’t mean that any women’s rights are necessarily ranked after theirs. It also doesn’t mean you erode “woman” as a term or stop noticing what sex differences mean. Women (and men) have been asked, pushed and threatened to do these things, and ultimately the answer is going to be “no.” But not without temporary damage to women’s sports and long-term damage to the LGBT “community” and how it is perceived.

Woman and female are already used interchangeably.

Well, not by those who actually want to identify biological reality, R279, which is why a recent British article mentioning a “female” sperm donor caused amusement and consternation. Although I’d be happy if “woman” and “female” could be given back to actual women entirely if that’s the way we want to go and we stopped the pretence.

There will always need to be a word for the actually female sex, which exists.

XX-haver.

I have come across a few trans patients who have unrealistic expectations of what it means to be female, and less so the other way around. Overwhelmingly the ones who do insist on surgery are MtF trans. I do know four FtM trans who are happy to remain on hormones.

A lot of the resentment from MtF trans comes from disappointment. Instead of admitting disappointment, many will redirect it towards biological women and society in general for not bending to their every will and demand. I believe they should be treated with dignity as women aside from athletics, medical health, similar things, But as I’d commented upthread, genetics take precedence in certain things in life, like it or not it is a part of our biological destiny. This is such s unique issue with equality complex set of circumstances that there will never be a perfect solution that won’t result in unfairness, perceived or actual. So we need to default to our genetics destiny.

I think it’s time for the movement to grow up a bit and reexamine itself. When you have to justify the impossible, such as denying genetic basis for sex, then you are the regressive anti-science viewpoint. If you have to justify children being lab animal subjects for long term effects of hormone blockers, then you are in fact dishonest in advancing the cause at all costs. If you have to justify encroaching upon rights of others in order to propel yourself at the top, then you’re not an egalitarian who cares about humanity, you’re really an absolutist or opportunist.

In healthcare and medicine, we know there are no studies that provide long term sequelae of hormone blockers in the pediatric population. This very concerning, particularly the way that it is increasingly touted as panacea to a complex issue. Yes, patients are often in a catch-22. Taking hormone blockers during childhood would offset certain puberty development. But that has multiple system, negative side effects that are not reversible. Also, underdeveloped sex organs increases surgical complications resulting from lack of tissues needed for reconstruction. Finally, hormone don’t work 100%., there are still remnants of the pituitary-gonadal system declaring themselves eventually, unless you remain on massive dosages for the rest of your life. But lifelong maintenance is an uncharted terrorism as well, and the known consequences of prolonged therapy give pause to any sane, responsible prescriber.

It’s also worth noting that anti-gay cultures have no trouble accepting gender reassignment surgeries and identifying as trans. Iran for instance has no problems with it, but when it comes to gay people living openly, yes go right ahead if you have a death wish. They give zero fucks about the irreversibility and health effects of surgery and lifelong medication therapy, but go apeshit at the idea of being gay. Think about it, I shudder at the unholy alliance between regressive cultures and the regressive Left.

So what should be done to help those with gender identity concerns? Support and affirm their feelings, acceptance, promote communication, and not this one-way communication which is the case now with trans movement dictating to rest of us who don’t fall in line.

On an off-note, isn’t it environmentally wasteful to encourage MtF trans to but tampons which they’ll never need? How does that figure into the hard Left SJW hierarchy? I’m a firm believer and participant of environmental causes, so this stance sort of perplexes me.

^^^meant to say uncharted territory”

R281, this will then result in the XX-havers being challenged that they “don’t know their chromosomes“ without having formal tests. Even if they have say, given birth. It’s already happening online.

The issue is the principle of being able to distinguish between trans and “cis” women. To many, that is an unacceptable difference to identify, whatever language is used. That’s ridiculous.

Well, most pro-trans folx DON'T deny 'biological reality' like chromosomes.

We simply disagree that that's what primarily defines a woman.

But R285, many women on this planet are not concerned with how men happen to define them. Even gay men. Even men who think they are women. Perhaps they might care about straight men’s opinions. (Incidentally, when straight people (men and women alike) fully wise up to what the trans community is trying to push, it will be over. Straight men tend to have more sympathy for the average woman then the average gay man because they spend more time with them and often love them, and once they decide they’re done with this crap, it really will be done.)

Most women realise the impact of biological reality. They experience gender expectations because they are women, not because they have “adopted the woman gender role.”

It isn’t possible to define a woman without reference to biology, without resorting to gender stereotypes.

[quote] Straight men tend to have more sympathy for the average woman then the average gay man

Well, this gay man has no sympathy for you.

In fact he'd like if you stopped invading this gay space and trying to erase him.

Oh it’s the Gay Space Invader troll again.

Yes, we as gay men have the right to our own spaces.

Free from women.

No matter how you feel about that.

Lol R289 but XXes don’t have the right to a space free from XYs, right?

"LOL"

Gay men having their own spaces is funny to women.

This needs repeating - the editor who addressed everyone as TERFs - had this to say a few years ago.

After the memory-loss scare, Ennis explained, he thought it was 1999, the New York Post reports. “I accused my wife of playing some kind of cruel joke, dressing me up in a wig and bra and making fake ID’s with the name ‘Dawn’ on it. Seriously,” he wrote. “It’s so odd to be experiencing this from the other side; as recently as last Friday, I felt I was indeed a woman, in my mind, body and soul.”

As for the identity-politics implications, he’s sorry. “I’m asking all of you who accepted me as a transgender to now understand: I was misdiagnosed,” wrote Ennis. “Even though I will not wear the wig or the makeup or the skirts again, I promise to remain a strong straight ally, a supporter of diversity and an advocate for equal rights and other LGBT issues including same-sex marriage.”

Then he went back again to being transgendered. This guy is fucking nuts.

"Well, most pro-trans folx DON'T deny 'biological reality' like chromosomes. We simply disagree that that's what primarily defines a woman."

Then what does, R285? We're all waiting on tenterhooks for the usual litany of stereotypes. Oh, and feelings. Fluffy-wuffy lady feelings.

R291, women having their own spaces is unacceptable to gay men, apparently.

The lol was at your attempt at trolling again, not the concept of anyone’s space.

Oh, and also R285, maybe you could give us some insight into why neither you nor any other trans rights advocate EVER debates the definition of "man." Funny how everyone already seems to know that, but "woman"? It's up for grabs.

Woman is a set of social markers.

Man is a biological state of being.

We all can celebrate CeCe for her accomplishments.

It is someone else other than the glamorous Caitlyn.

Strange how other cultures don't seem to have difficulty defining what a female is.

[quote] A lot of the resentment from MtF trans comes from disappointment.

I can imagine how a MtF must feel after growing breasts, removing their penis, and putting on lipstick and a dress, but when looking in a mirror realizing they still look like a she-hulk. I think that would be painful. You can’t change your frame.

Yes, woman is something to be defined by society.

In some ways it’s amusing, perhaps even a deliberate attempt at satire, to say that the sex that gestates and births children is a “set of social markers” and that a father of six is a better woman than actual women; in other ways the way women and female children get treated in many parts of the world just isn’t funny.

That’s not funny!

Outsports owner/editor Dawn (Don) Ennis claims that he "breastfed" his youngest child, but the child would have been around six years old when Dawn transitioned (for the first time). This guy is just all kinds of cray.

So Outsports is now a tranny magazine

[quote]Straight men tend to have more sympathy for the average woman then the average gay man because they spend more time with them and often love them, and once they decide they’re done with this crap, it really will be done.)

Revealing. And true of course. Woman and straight men work in tandem. Feminists usually try and pretend otherwise but less so recently.

And after that they'll be coming for gay men.

Yes. It's basically a transthink propaganda blog run by Don/Dawn.

R305 Yes, they certainly do. Women and straight men may bicker but when the chips are down, they absolutely stick together. Feminists see gay/bi men as men they have no control over and they are often the most heteronormative even if claiming bi status themselves.

I think it's time to start writing to the parent of Outsports, SB Nation, and their parent, Vox Media, and the advertisers on all three, especially. Do you think this editor is adhering to the parent company's media values?

That thing is hideous, no matter which gender it claims to be.

Peak feminism is bemoaning gay men and declaring that straight men will fight your battles because you control them sexually all in the same sentence.

Are they going to come for drag queens next?

Stop talking to yourself, R305 / R307 / R310 / “Caitlyn is stunning and brave.” Boring troll.

[quote] Do you not hear yourself? You’re essentially arguing that anyone with a penis isn’t a woman.

I'm generally numb to this sort of thing by now, but occasionally I remember all over again how insane trans ideology is. It's similar to the way I'm mostly desensitised to Trump's bullshit, but every so often he says something that makes me look at him and think, "Christ, how are you president of the USA?"

One of the comments from the link at R312:

[quote] By dismissing the reality of sex you also dismiss same sex attraction which seems pretty homophobic to me.

Bingo!!!

Indeed R312. Of course, everyone knows that anyone with a penis isn’t a woman, but what’s even more striking is that the person being responded to had simply tweeted that being a lesbian, they didn’t do penises and wouldn’t sleep with anyone who had one. That expression of sexual autonomy and indeed of sexuality, rather than any conceptual framing of “womanhood”, was policed by someone who I imagine is not a lesbian themselves.

If the trans community doesn’t want stark reminders that people don’t REALLY tend to think they are the sex they identify with, then probably best to steer away from examining sexual preferences, as that, rather than who is in the next toilet cubicle, is precisely the sort of area where the majority of us who aren’t bisexual put their foot down about what is and isn’t male or female.

“Oh, you like women, but you don’t want to have sex with a trans woman then? Ah-HA!! So that means you don’t accept trans women are women???”

Well goodness me, seeing as you have backed me into a corner by demanding to know why I’ve expressed some sexual boundaries, then you’ve gone and dragged it out of me. I was prepared to be polite and say “she” and let you just pee, but you’ve insisted I focus on the issue, so there we are.

Caitlyn made a glamorous appearance at the Vanity Fair party. She wore a gorgeous print wrap dress. Nick Jonas and other celebrities took notice. Sophia was by her side and looked exquisite.

Oops, wrong thread^

The Caitlyn troll makes it obvious which threads they have bookmarked

If anyone needs an emetic, this should be helpful:

[quote] In my case, I am a non-operative trans woman — that is, I have a penis (which I prefer to call a “clit,” “cock,” or “girldick”) and have elected not to change my genital configuration.

I'm not sure why "cock" sounds any less male than "penis", but whatever.

[quote] “This is not to say that using one's penis for penetrative sex is masculine. Rather, the person making such an assumption overlooks the reality of trans women's dicks, particularly for girls who are taking estrogen and testosterone blockers. Our dicks get smoother, softer, more flaccid. To be honest, it's harder to penetrate when you're on all those 'mones," says Blanchard.

[quote] “This failure to acknowledge the specificity of our bodies just continues the line of thinking that trans women are actually men," she continues. "Obviously, it doesn't mean that a girl who isn't on hormones or has an unchanged dick is less of a woman. But what violates trans women is how the underlying assumptions guiding normative cis male sexuality are exported to the normative sexuality of a trans woman.”

It goes on like this, including a whinge about how "cis" women are "upheld as the pillars of femininity". At times like this, I'm glad we've fucked up the planet.

[quote]Obviously, it doesn't mean that a girl who isn't on hormones or has an unchanged dick is less of a woman.

Didn't [italic]Allure[/italic] magazine used to have articles rating the best lipsticks for your coloring and which cleansers to use?

The penis can be split into a sensitive clit, just a different procedure than circumcision. The FtM has less to stretch out and properly shape. Now these turfings are saddled with this Freudian penis envy going on, and since acquiring one is psychologically frustrating, the option is to show disdain for all penises/peni, straight, gay, trans, what have you. The solution is therapy to gradually become accustomed to touch and feel penises over the entire body. It is just a skin covered muscle, not an electric eel which is a fish. Men don't emit fish odor regardless of how elongated or snakey the penis may be. Thus, trans women are only embracing the penis as an inserting "feel good" unit to an inviting receptacle they adjusted for, not as ownership anymore. The is for the mate, not yourself. The saying "been there, done that" surely applies. The turflings can't relate to, or understand, this dimension. How could they? That's where showing them understanding, not Kellyanne-style propaganda reinforcement, is the step one prescription in guiding them to enlightenment. If/when Bernie (maybe 'Lizabeth) gets elected, that can be a project for First Lady Jane or a special woman VP such as Tulsi. While that is inadequate to a degree, it is a move in the right direction. Unfortunately, there are no trans candidates running for President. In eight years, the timing may be right. Start grooming and supporting more trans candidates for public office. Together, we will get there.

Slightly disturbing turn taken in the trolling at R320.

The FBI should be watching r320.

R321 R322

[quote]"Stop shoulding on yourself" Dr. Albert Ellis

That won’t save your hard drive, R323. Insert Chris Hansen gif.

R324 you lose, sorely.

Yes, you’ve annihilated me with that post, R325. But I can see you’ve decided to identify as a winner.

Do any MtFs attempt to participate in a sport such as gymnastics or ice skating?

[quote]Do any MtFs attempt to participate in a sport such as gymnastics or ice skating?

Yeah, Surya Bonaly and Kim Zmeskal, obviously

Table tennis is a fun activity that has gained popularity among transgenders.

That’s nice, R329.

Attention cis women athletes!

[quote][bold]If you prioritize you or your child's performance in sports over another humans authentic self-actualization[/bold], you need to check your privilege, and/or your sociopathy.