Mariah Carey’s music hasn’t evolved at all

Madonna hires people to write and produce her music, even when she gets credit for everything. Mariah Carey writes her own lyrics and drives the musical compositions even when she is not a musician. She has an artistic point of view and she makes the music she makes. She’s had a ton of number ones, but all of them sounded like Mariah Carey and were not engineered to be “on trend” for the sake of breaking number one as Madonna’s songs are. It doesn’t make any sense to me to compare Mariah Carey and Madonna as musicians or performers.

Mariah is a singer first and a lyricist second, and she has always made a consistent “Mariah” sound.

Madonna is a marketer first, and the rest is just what it takes to sell. Her product/image changes because she’s motivated by being “relevant.” Mariah Carey has never done that.

Yup. It's all the same song. Starting from Music Box/Daydream sounded the same. The first album and Emotions was the same. Then from Butterfly on, the same lame R&B/Hip hop whispery crap. She's a total hack with no vision, creativity, or taste whatsoever. And her voice is awfully bad. Only really good in a handful of songs in the very beginning when she had a full clean pure strong belt and used it. Other than that, she's screaming all over the damn place. Constant heartbroken victim songs too. Yuck.

The exact same beats and harmonies on every track.

Sure she has a hit here or there and seems to rest on her past laurels, but I don’t see much of a path forward

OP, what are you talking about? Dreamlover the same as Fantasy? Honey the same as Sweetheart? Heartbreaker the same as Loverboy? That's crazy talk.

I liked Caution quite a bit, actually. It didn’t reinvent the wheel but it was loads better than everything else she’s put out since the turn of the century.

Off-topic, but how wonderful must it be to be Mariah and know that, rather than lose money over Christmas like most of us do, you're going to make a shedload without needing to do anything at all?

Who cares?

[quote]Madonna is a marketer first, and the rest is just what it takes to sell. Her product/image changes because she’s motivated by being “relevant.” Mariah Carey has never done that.

That's a dumb assessment. Madonna's music has evolved to the point that her music is longer Top 40 radio friendly. Mariah keeps putting out the same music.

Love Muffin

Elusive Chanteuse had a lot better songs than Caution, but she was going thru a divorce and didn't promote at all.

Can you imagine Selena gomez or Taylor Swift writing a song like Make it Look Good? Stevie Wonder harmonica solo....

^ that song's a mess the mix is horrible.

R4, yes yes yes yes

Listen to her hits next to one another. They all sound like the same song

Reminds me of feces

She's a hack.

Songwriter my ass.

R2, completely untrue--Emotions is a gigantic step up from her debut. Completely. Emotions is a genuine soul-pop alum whereas her debut was basically MOR pop. Music Box and Daydream are nothing alike either. The latter is R&B while the former is syrupy ballad-type music. I do think everything in between Daydream and Emancipation sounds the same. And since Emancipation, nothing she has done interests me.

Her album titles sure did get a lot campier after she broke up from Mottola--Butterfly? Rainbow? Charmbracelet? Glitter? Emancipation of Mimi? Memoirs of an Imperfect FUCKING ANGEL? So camp.

All of her shit sounds the same. Janet Jackson’s shit too.

Mariah is a fem gay man in a woman’s body

She's lazy. It shows in her body and music. And her amazing dance moves.

But let's be honest, her early success had a lot to do with "pay for play", Columbia records paid radio DJs tons of money to put her songs in the daily rotation. Without the bribery and heavy promotion, I doubt Mariah Carey would be that dominant in 90s.

r20, that sounds a lot like payola, isn't payola illegal?

R21, is the sky blue?

The exception to the rule. The descent into rachet ho-dom

R15 Get the sugardaddy out of your ears. NOBODY even knows her second album except Emotions. What in the hell are you talking about? Your assessment is ALL WRONG.

[quote] Mariah is a fem gay man in a woman’s body

More like MOOriah ate three femme gay men and stored them inside of her body.

R21 of course it was , Mariah Carey was indeed involved in the payola probe and settlement, the other big name is J-Lo. But I have to say, unlike Mariah, J-Lo breakthrough singles "if you had my love" and "waiting for tonight" were surprisingly catchy and radio friendly, she might have just made it to the chart without payola.

R24, what you typed is barely English. What are YOU talking about? I've listened to those albums so I know what I'm talking about.

r26 I love Mariah's major hits. They are formulaic like a good Supreme's song. Here first greatest hits album is a go to record when I need to get in the zone at work but don't really want to focus on the music. I'll find myself going along with the tunes. I don't know why somme of you pretend that they weren't catchy.

R27 Barely English? Come on now. Well, I guess that's why more people agree with my post then.

This fat whale is a shameless fraud who shamelessly bought her #1 singles by steeply discounting them. Yuck no wonder she has never been respected by most of people in the industry. She’s always played safe and never evolved. She’s no Madonna or Whitney even Beyoncé.

And she was paid handsomely for her safe music, same for C. Dion. There is market for this stuff, see Adele. These play it safe types still sit on fortunes much higher than all the rest, minus that innovative workhorse Madonna. If given a choice, it's a better bet to use an amazing voice on safe music and cash out, rather than attempt to be an innovator.

Yes Adele is another one. Ugh BARF. Same sad song over and over.

I remember Mariah's payola even worked against fellow Columbia artists. Celine was sitting pretty with her hit Because You Loved Me and it probably would've lasted longer at the top if it weren't for Always Be My Baby going to the top for 2 weeks. It was obvious that was because of payola. I like the song but Because You Loved Me was definitely more popular.

Her wardrobe has never evolved either.

Or her music videos and album covers. The worst.

Always Be My Baby is such a good song though, I'm not mad that i hit #1 for a couple of weeks. It still works today, while Because You Loved Me feels very 90s.

Mariah may be "lazy" when it comes to dancing, but she is an introvert. Don't say she is lazy, the fucker has been working almost non-stop for 30 years. She writes all of her own songs, in the 90's she also re-wrote remixes, travel the world over and over as an international superstar, videos, interviews, photo shoots, more writing, more traveling. She ain't lazy, boo. She put out an album, and had a #1 song, every year in the 90's.

That's one thing about Mariah I do respect r37 is that she was very smart about her singles. She would have the album version, single version, then an R&B mix and a hip-hop mix and then re-record the vocals for a dance mix (usually remixed by David Morales).

I loved collecting all her maxi-singles in the '90s because she would offer different versions of one song. Like Honey had the Puffy-produced original, plus a So-So Def remix and then a Morales mix.

I love many of her greatest hits. Her early throwback music (Vision of Love, Love Takes Time) and her doo-wop-y Always Be My Baby and fun Fantasy honestly just make me feel happy and a little wistful.

Later songs like Shake It Off and We Belong Together are also fun but not as timeless. I still defend her as a superior pop songwriter, but one who works within her own wheelhouse. I actually appreciate that she doesn’t just rent popular producers to make soundalike EDM product. Touch My Body may be a dumb title and a silly song, but to me it’s better than a 50 year-old Mariah desperately trying to stay “relevant” by rapping poorly against an EDM template background. We all know what Mariah is going to put out, and I think that’s fine. I do wish she would do more stuff that sounds 50s-60s-ish like Vision of Love and All I Want for Christmas, but whatever.

Pure shit

The lady vocal coach suggests she was lip syncing here...

Naw r41 she said either Mariah kicked ass or she was lip-syncing. I think it was a mixture of both. I agree with both of them that she did the damn thing. Perhaps she should abandon the tours and residencies for special sporadic performances, like this. She was never much of a touring artist, so she should rest her aging instrument and do these shows a couple of times a year, like "A Night With Mimi"

She is such a bitch. Treats her staff like shit and doesn't pay them. Always has to photographed on the one side with her big fake tits showing. Those poor kids. It's funny how she thinks she's still Queen of the music business. She's going to end up just like Madonna. Overstaying her welcome.

Wikipedia says she was born in “1969 or 1970.”

r43 ALL divas are terrible to their staff, I don't know why you'd think someone at Mariah's level would be any different. The Celine Dions are few and fare in-between. Madonna fired a longterm backup singer because the woman wasn't down with pretending to give a crap about Kabbalah, everyone else were willing to wear those little bracelets. J-Lo won't let staff look her in the eye (a well known fact) and is known to throw a fit.

They are stupid. Never want to treat her staff like that. It's going to bite you in the ass. I would more likely to steal and give info to blind items. No loyalty whatsoever.

r46 you'll be shocked at what people put up with due to a paycheck. Oprah was no saint either, but she paid her staff well so they stated with her for years.

lying cunt

r43, She already has. She still thinks she's RELEVANT and she's about to be 50 years old!!!! She's just a younger version of Hagdonna.

And before people get on my ass about the success of AIWFCIY this year, big deal, it's a 25 year old song that catches fire at Christmas time every year, it just so happens that this year was so weak on the charts, and Mariah campaigned relentlessly for it, that it managed to top the chart.

It doesn't matter what any of you jealous queens say about Mariah Carey. She is sitting on a fortune as big as Kim Kardashians. The woman is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. She's set for life. She can just sit back and do nothing I'm sure, if she wanted too.

She has it. And yall don't. Get over it.

“She can just sit back and do nothing I'm sure, if she wanted too.“

Oh, dear.

And no, she couldn’t. She is the type of person who needs attention to keep living.

r49 AIWFC is a very big deal. It's a 25 year old pop-song. Pop is NOT meant to last, yet at 25 years old, IN IT"S ORIGINAL FORM, it topped the Billboard Hot 100. Now that's impressive no matter how weak the competition was during Christmas/New Years.

She sucks now. The majority of her R&B and hip hop songs all sound the same and are plain. Her best work was her pop stuff from 90-95.

[quote]Mariah Carey writes her own lyrics and drives the musical compositions even when she is not a musician.

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

100% agree r53. I like that she switched to a style she likes. She doesn't have the voice to really make her old hits pop. Her new albums always have one or two deep cuts that make me smile. If Mariah remained the 90s big voice singer she'd be another Celine, still relatively irrelevant. She has nothing more to prove so she might as well make the type of music she likes.

Her voice still sounds special even though people say she lost it.

[quote]I was surprised how the songs all sounded just like the songs from a decade ago when she went R&B

Mariah transitioned to R&B way before 10 years ago

I disagree r20, her greatest hits album from the early 2000s is such an easy listen with perfect pop hooks thanks to her soaring voice. It's like listening to the Supreme's Greatest Hits Album from the Diana days, pop music that is obtainable music. I feel like Mariah's 90s hits are timeless. Sure people were paid off to hear them, but their formulas are just infectious. Every pop artist doesn't have to have miles of depth, it's pop.

I preferred Mariah pre Y2K...but vocally, she’s league’s above Madge.

r59, everyone is leagues above Madonna as a vocalist.

Madonna has plenty of hits that still sound great today, whereas Mariah has like 2.

Mariah's last great album was the Emancipation of Mimi in 2005. She's need to change her look and sound for years now. Since Emancipation 15 years ago, all her music sounds the same.

Mariah has had some good material on her last few albums, but yes, the template is pretty much the same since Emancipation.

Madonna hasn’t made decent music since EROTICA, and that CD was uneven as shit.

I like how the OP says EVEN Madonna has chabged styles

One of the BIGGEST criticisms labeled against her is that she's constantly changing her sound and working with the hot new producers of the moment

Bedtime Stories sounded nothing like Erotica, neither sounded anything like Evita or Ray of Light, Hard Candy and American Life can almost be two completely different artists as they sound nothing alike etc

I was friends with a big time Madonna hater and that was always his go to bash, that she has to change her sound every album to keep people interested because she's inauthentic

Madonna had a great career....she should retire and travel with her family.

Based off of current youtube daily viewing stats, Mariah is doing OK. Her hits that do the best are Hero, I Know What You want (that's random as fuck but OK), Always Be My Baby and We Belong Together. Plus, AIWFCIY which will obviously spike in the winter.

Madonna shouldn’t retire. Down with the patriarchy! Down with the Iron Curtain!

More songs about fried fish!!!

Vision of Love and Love Takes Time were epic for their age. But her has deteriorated tragically - it's comparable with Madonna's now. It used to be closer to Whitney (remember they used to be mistaken for each other? although Mariah was always slightly breathier and... less, at least to my ear)

I like Mariah's earlier music a lot but I do think Madonna's best singles from her peak are way more memorable. I mean, Holiday, Like a Virgin, Material Girl, La Isla Bonita, Papa Don't Preach, Like a Prayer, Express Yourself and Vogue. Mariah has a few singles from her peak that are great hits but not on the same level (the big exception being All I want for Christmas). And the article attached explains the reason why that is.

I'll always love Mariah Carey, grew up listening to her and her music takes me back to when I grew up in the 90s and 00s. Madonna is good too, but she was already on the scene before I was born in 88.

Their both iconic and huge successes. I'm happy for both of them. Their both apart of the music I listened to growing up.

I especially love, All I want for Christmas is you. I love that song every year around the holidays.

Blessings to the both of them.

Madonna's catalog of hit songs has aged much better than Mariah's.

That said, BOTH of them have stayed on the stage for far too long and need to get off NOW.

Same ol shit

Today is the 30th anniversary of Vision of Love. Truly one of the most impressive debut singles (and albums).

I loved Mariah's debut album. But then she lost me with that whole Daydream-Butterfly shit.

I thought she evolved quite a bit in the late 90s. Her career has had the opposite trajectory of someone like Christina or Britney. I prefer her earlier stuff but her shift to more R&B worked out well for her as she would later struggle to maintain those high notes.

This was her last great song in my opinion. Very emotive yet understated.

Mariah's debut was pretty schlocky aside from a few songs. However, Vision of Love is an incredible first single. I remember a critic described Running Up that Hill as a woman's orgasm in 4 minutes. I think that's the wrong interpretation of the song but it fits Vision of Love perfectly.

Not a popular opinion, but I think Emotions is a giant leap forward from her debut and one of the best R&B albums of the 90s. It's one of those albums that people seem to forget existed but it's so much better than all her other albums, with the exception of Merry Christmas and (maybe) Emancipation of Mimi.

[quote] Bedtime Stories sounded nothing like Erotica, neither sounded anything like Evita or Ray of Light, Hard Candy and American Life can almost be two completely different artists as they sound nothing alike etc

That is one of the major problems with Madonna. I have no problem with artists evolving or trying something new, as long as the maintain a core of what makes them, them. For instance, I would point to Loretta Lynn's album with Jack White, it was totally different from anything she had done before, but at it's core it was still classic Loretta. Madonna hasn't done that in years, you might like one album and then hate every subsequent album, and not find any commonality between them other than Madonna being the singer. When Mariah releases an album or single, you get something that you know is going to identifiable as Mariah.

R78 I agree. Vision of Love really is an EPIC introduction to her and her voice. The way it slowly crescendos into that incredible climax is a real 'moment' in pop history, even if the song's production is extremely dated. Emotions took the strongest aspects of her debut album and pushed them to the next level... the combination of gospel and jazz influences with modern C+C Music Factory dance beats... and her voice was only getting better and better at that point.

She had some other moments of pop perfection after that ('Dreamlover', 'Fantasy', 'Honey', 'We Belong Together', 'Heartbreaker', 'Lead The Way', ) and I don't even mind her hip hop work ('Say Something' with Snoop Dogg and Pharrell is such a beautiful song). But none of the *pieces* really came together in the same way again. Her recent album showed some good taste and instincts are still there (I liked the Blood Orange and Slick Rick collaboration) but again it's too overproduced and inconsistent, combined with the slightly deteriorating voice. At this point I just don't think she's that artistic any more, or willing to develop as a songwriter any further.

I think she needs to work with ONE producer for an ENTIRE album, and really hone in on a definitive sound which she hasn't done in a while. Put out an actual project, not just a collection of random B-list names doing a cheaper-sounding version of her same old thing. Maybe even Babyface (his album with Toni Braxton a few years ago was great), or the production team who do all of Sade and Maxwell's music. Raphael Saadiq did a great job on Solange's 'A Seat at the Table'. Wouldn't even mind hearing her work with Jazmine Sullivan for a whole project.

R80, although Mottola was very controlling, he was good at reigning in her worst impulses. That's what I think is missing from most of her albums.

She’s okay.

Me I am Mariah: The Elusive Chanteuse had some of her best work on it.

Shame she never cut a full dance CD. She's had some killer dance songs and remixes.

The bitch is 50 now, time for her to start doing songs for AC.

No more CHR for YOU Mimi!

Madonna's discography is far more impressive and memorable than Mariah's. I can name maybe 3 Mariah songs off the top of my head, but I could name at least 15 Madonna songs. I think that describes most people.

Mariah actually did sort of release a dance album back in 2003. It was a two-disc album, the first disc was dance mixes (e.g. C+C Music Factory), and the second was all hip-hop remixes with a bunch of rapper cameos.

I was really surprised by the number and quality of dance remixes she’d made over the years. For the most part, they were completely new recordings with new vocals and ad-libs that were never included in the original songs. I think the one that had the biggest contemporary success was her Dreamlover dance mix.

And contrary to OP’s sentiment, I thought Caution was really good. In my opinion it was way better than “Elusive Chanteuse” or “Imperfect Angel”. It was back on par with “E=mc2” and “Emancipation”, both of which included a bunch of filler begging for the “skip track” button. “Caution” I thought was edited better, not too long for the sake of being X minutes long.

Caution was her first not-stupid album title since Daydream.

Why does the Madonna Loon at r85 infiltrate every thread about any other musician and start trying to turn the thread into a Madonna seat sniffing competition...dude you’re certifiable!

Yes, she has evolved. She wrote “make it look good” with a harmonica guest spot from Stevie Wonder. This song would not have been on any of her previous albums, and none of the pop tarts today could write something like this.

She’s forgettable and so is her music 💩