Let's discuss Cleveland

First rate cultural institutions.

My boyfriend grew up there, and he'll be driving there to spend Christmas with his family. He loves it.

Did they ever put out the fire🔥in the river?

Obvious home of the world renown Cleveland Orchestra!

I thought the spin-off was a mistake. I was glad when he came back to Quohog!

It's the location of "A Christmas Story" and Ralphie!

Cleveland has its pluses and minuses. It's gone some similar issues that nearby city Pittsburgh did, but the steel mills, etc. crashed a lot earlier than BP and some of Cleveland's old business core, so they are a bit later than Pittsburgh and some other rust belt cities to climb out of it.

They do have a great museum and one of the strongest theater and arts communities for a city its size anywhere in the country. It's affordable, for sure, and a lot of cute, trendy neighborhoods are in the city. There's also a (limited) rail system.

The minuses are: the weather in winter, the weird layout of streets and highways (very indirect and time consuming for the suburban highways to get into the city), and, as with many rust belt cities, there are still huge swaths of the city that, sadly, are very poor and blighted. The downtown area has seen better days, in some places.

loved it as a kid , we built snow forts and flooded back yard for ice rinks, sledding, etc. Grew up on a one-block long brick street, c,1965. My grandparents were wonderful and lived on the west side in Bay Village, We would take the Rapid to downtown and meet them there for Christmas shopping and dining. Fond memories but then we moved to Kansas City when I was 12. Meh, I missed the snow!. Probably wouldn't live there now but I had an enchanted childhood there, believe it or not.

[quote] The racial makeup of the city was 53.3% African American, 37.3% White, 0.3% Native American, 1.8% Asian, 4.4% from other races, and 2.8% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 10.0% of the population.

I would actually love to move back. I have been in LA for 15 years and it’s time.

Fucking. Boring.

I used to cry as a kid when they made me go visit family.

I will say that of all the rust belt cities I've been in, white and black folks seem to get along better with less conflict.

I'm sure it's not perfect, but what I've observed is that you see a mix of people in almost every restaurant and there isn't any of the tension or weirdness I have seen in other cities.

Life long resident here, and a big fan of the area. As in Pittsburgh, we are still beneficiaries of the Gilded age millionaires cultural infrastructure set up a century ago. The housing stock is plentiful and you get a lot of house for your housing buck - my 1700 sq ft Dutch colonial was 120 grand a few years ago. Being on a Great Lake is another asset. The weather is a minus, but the way things are going with climate change, this may soon be a thing of the past. Wonderfully green and lush in spring.

And yes r3 , they put out that fire 50 years ago. The river is now used for rowing teams and other aquatic recreation.

Let's all flee to the Cleve

Suck it, R3. And R11, things have changed since 1981 when you were forced to visit family.

I had to move here for work about three years ago. It’s interesting in the way once-grand cities are interesting. But it’s weird and depressing, too. And oh, the fucking weather!

Great symphony; absolutely world class. Very good art museum. And that’s about it in terms of culture. There’s a lot of theatre at all levels, but it’s pretty much all dire. Because of the R&R Hall Of Fame, there’s a sense that there is a good non-classical music scene, but there really isn’t. Chicago has a sound. Detroit, Seattle, Minneapolis, Miami, New York, Memphis, Nashville. But Cleveland’s sound seems to be "bad cover band".

Imagine that.

More green parks than almost any city in America.

Yes, the parks are nice.

R17 I found the RRHOF very disappointing. Some of it was OK, but the inductees display was.....a wall of their signatures?

I remember CLE getting a lot of good touring bands, but their local scene hasn't had much happening since its 80s heyday.

Second largest theater district in America.

Some of the biggest cocks you will ever see in your life.

The men are of Eastern European, Polish and Italian stock - they may not always be beautiful, but if you are a size connoisseur like me, you will be in hog heaven.

Severance Hall.

It's special....so special

Opera?

You might want to read Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng.

Fiction based on real areas of town. Gets at a little bit of the class conflict between a rich neighborhood and a less affluent street nearby. Some parts of Cleveland are very stately and almost.....New England-ish.

I was fucking a rich boy from Hunting Valley. God, what a spread he grew up in. Like Grosse Pointe and yeah Connecticut wealth.

Used to have two bath houses. Don't know if that's still true, but I used to get the hell fucked out of me in both whenever I would stop over. No complaints here.

My rich relations lived in Rocky River.

Wow, I am surprised to read all the good things about Cleveland. I expected a thread full of nastiness. I have never been, nor have I been to Columbus, but they both -- particularly the latter -- seem to have more than what most cities their size have to offer. Pity about the weather.

^^^^ I love that neighborhood right up by the harbor,along the lake

Did they ever figure out how the river caught fire🔥? And why couldn’t they put it out??

Fuck you R30. This thread was never about Columbus. Don't try to bring your stinking 4th rate city into this conversation about Cleveland. Get fucked and get lost. Columbus and Cleveland don't even compare. So fuck you R30, just fuck you.

There were 2 fires, in 1952 and 1969.

R30 don't mind R33. She hasn't taken her meds.

It the river still caught on fire they could have lame EDM festivals on the banks and bridges.

Most cities had awful shit like the rivers in Cleveland.

The rivers in Pittsburgh may not have ever been on fire, but it would be dark as night at noon.

Hell holes.

Presented Live... Theeee Edge of Night

I spent a lot of time there for work over about 2 years - and I actually liked it too. One of the more surprisingly ok cities of the Midwest. Diverse, good restaurants, interesting architecture, affordable, beautiful suburbs, a few gay bars, not over,y uptight, gay friendly, pretty lakefront. Comparisons to Pittsburgh or a smaller Philly. One of the few places size been stuck for work that I enjoyed. Living there may be different - but if you’re looking for affordability, not a bad option.

One weird thing was a 2+ week period in spring where there were millions of little flies swarming within a few blocks of the lakefront. They somehow even got into the office I was working in - hundreds dead each morning on windowsill.

Strange fireflies, never seen before.

Never forget

R40, OMG those midge flies!!! Yes, they literally swarm by the billions certain times of year (if you live next to the lake). You can't walk outside without swallowing a few and they all get into your house no matter what you try to avoid them. Luckily, they do not bite but do attract millions of spiders into your home or businesses (who prey on them). I have family in Cleveland and I actually really like it. Huge drawbacks mixed with great plusses really sums up this old, historic, rust belt city. The food scene is really quite good, the Cleveland Museum of Art is spectacular IMO (although there is really only one museum worth speaking of unlike in other larger cities) and for those who are into theater (I am not) - Playhouse Square is pretty impressive. The shopping is dreck if you are into clothing, furniture, accessories, etc. That said, so much can be found online these days and there are plenty of HomeGoods and TJ Maxx level stores. Home prices vary drastically - most homes long the lake on the Westside and in nicer areas of the Eastside will cost you well into the multi millions. More modest homes a few streets over may look like a steal $-wise. This is an old city with very extreme weather conditions however - so most of these homes are OLD and most are not updated when it comes to electrical, plumbing, kitchens, baths, roofs...everything really. That said, the far outlying suburban areas have 1990's and 2000's "builder neighborhoods" and with newer, boring homes that might look like "anywhere USA". The winters can be Hell, but the summers are really amazingly cool and if you live close to the lake - very breezy as well. A poster above mentioned the HORRIBLE road system - it's ridiculous how long it takes to get from here to there just because the road system is designed to just drive in circles and never get anywhere DIRECTLY is a huge issue. The Eastside is far worse than the Westside in this regard, but both are terrible when trying to get to a suburban mall or entertainment area. All in all - it's a great city with huge flaws (just like most any other city in the country).

The Key Tower is well done. 200 Public Square less so. It's a pity they can't throw up several tall towers to bring it all together.

Those midges helped the Indians beat the Yankees, as they swarmed all over Joba Chamberlain.

R39 - that's Cincinnati.

Gay Games 2014 in the heart of the Midwest.

I was there for the Gay Games. Maybe that’s why I have such a positive memory. Not sure if a lot has changed since then.

2 bathhouses for a town that size was impressive.

The Cleveland Museum of Art is my favorite art museum. I don't live near Cleveland but I have visited twice and I was blown away. I have been to so many art museums in the U.S. and i live in a city with a number of great museums, but I just love Cleveland's.

I live about 3.5 hours from Cleveland and visit at least once or twice a year. Playhouse Square is great, as is the RRHOF and the Cleveland Museum of Art. Lots of great restaurants and ethnic neighborhoods. The sports teams (Browns, Cavs, Indians) are perennial losers, which is sad. The neighborhoods west of downtown (like Rocky River) have great housing stock and some of outstanding views of downtown. The weather in winter can be tragic, especially east of downtown (which is the heart of the snowbelt).

I know someone who has a condo on the lake in Cleveland for the summer and a house in Atlanta for the winter. Not a horrible setup.

The Edge of Night you shit head butt was from Cincinnati Ohio where Proctor and Gamble headquarters was located. I hate you.

I spent two years there from 2016 to 2018, moving from Massachusetts about three weeks after the 2016 election for work. I hated every second of it and finally returned to Massachusetts in early 2019.

Cleveland is also home base for Sherrod Brown, one of the good Senators, and his wife Connie Schultz, a Pulitzer Prize winning writer.

The Shangri-La on Lake Erie. It's the land of milk and honey.

Horrid beyond words

Grover Cleveland was not one of our more noteworthy presidents.

[quote]I spent two years there from 2016 to 2018, moving from Massachusetts about three weeks after the 2016 election for work. I hated every second of it and finally returned to Massachusetts in early 2019.

Yeah, you sound like a typical Masshole.

I love the song, Cleveland rocks, thanks R58.

Is it the official capital of Flyoverstan?

Queefland,Ohio

R 61 - very, very blue. Always has been.

Trump won Ohio 51-43.

Cleveland is blue, but almost the entire rest of the state went red.

Does Cleveland have fishflies like they do in Michigan?

Yeah. NOT a fan of Cleveland here, but you can’t blame them for Trump. It’s a very blue city, unlike the weirdly purple Columbus and the scarlet red Cincinnati.

R66 - yes, we call them mayflies, midges, or Canadian soldiers. They invade for a little less than a week in spring. They are, to say the least, numerous. They fly across lake Erie to mate - they are short lived as they have no mouth, so adults never eat. Just mating and dying.

What are the hipper Brooklyn/Silver Lake type neighborhoods in Cleveland?

I have only changed planes there, but get the sense that it's one of those cities where most everyone who lives there is from there, versus say DC or SF or Boston, where many current residents moved there from elsewhere. True?

They're either from Cleveland or from smaller towns nearby: Youngstown, Akron, Sandusky, etc.

Yeah, most of them are locals.

The trendy neighborhoods are Tremont and Ohio City. Both are near-ish to downtown and have all the cool restaurants/bars that hipsters want.

The old "cool" places, like Coventry, are still around.

Thank you R71

I was raised in the Cleveland area and now live in Columbus. Cleveland has perks and drawbacks; most people I know who grew up in the area appreciate it. The city has grown a fair amount since the 80s. I echo the comments about it having a great art scene.

Does the city have a midwestern feel?

R74 CLE is similar to Milwaukee in many ways in terms of "feel."

R54:

Clinton carried 65.41 percent of the vote here, to President-elect Donald Trump's 30.25 percent. She led Trump here by 214,060 votes, up 9,980 votes from a 204,080 advantage before the Board of Elections released the official count.

But data suggest Trump owes his statewide win over Clinton - by 8.5 points - to huge gains in rural and blue collar areas.

Trump piled up votes in Appalachia. The president-elect picked up a lot of votes with huge victories in small counties. In fact, he carried 70 percent of the vote or more in 30 of Ohio's 88 counties.

Most of Ohio is like most of PA - racist and as trashy as the day is long.

Here is the info DL wants to know:

Real estate within walking distance of the leather bar and the bathhouse.

Well aren’t the gay bars and one bathhouse in Ohio City - just west of downtown? I stayed downtown but always took taxis/Uber to the gay area - as it’s a little sketchy especially late night. The gay bar area is over a somewhat desolate bridge from the actual downtown.

If I was going to live there though I would probably do Lakewood - or even across the city line to Rocky River. Only one or two gay bars - but much nicer and safer. Not a city I would live in without a car or reliance on taxi/Uber. Public transit is not a strength. But all the gay stuff and downtown are on one straight line street down Detroit(?) Ave.

I've never been there. Family on my mom's side was in Cleveland.

R79, Flex is the only bathhouse left. It is a redone bus station.

Flex is one of the nicest bathhouses in US. A major plus for Cleveland! Lounging, drinking, eating, pool, outdoor area. I used to fly in early on Sundays to spend an afternoon/evening there.

[quote]Most of Ohio is like most of PA - racist and as trashy as the day is long.

Fuck you.

Howard Metzenbaum and Dennis Kucinich were two of the most liberal and progressive politicians, bar none.

R83 It is. I lived in both.

I love a lot about both states, and the cities are great, but much of the vast expanse in between in both states is as backward as the most remote corners of Appalachia.

Not unlike New York state.

[quote] It is. I lived in both. I love a lot about both states, and the cities are great, but much of the vast expanse in between in both states is as backward as the most remote corners of Appalachia.

Yeah, well you could say the same about the Pacific Northwest, Idaho, and Montana-all places were the white Nationalist community congregate.

It's all just Flyoverstan to me

For those of you who live there, are there places, events, etc where you might see or meet a lot of gays, other than clubs and bathhouses? Some cities struggle with everybody being too sprawled out to ever run into each other.

🌳🌳

[quote] It's all just Flyoverstan to me

And NYC, SF and LA are all Hot Diarrheastan and Rats Eating Pizzastan to me

Don't nobody bettah evah, EVAH say nuttin bad bout Cleveland! Dats when I go OFF!!!!

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame rocks!

I could spend 3 days in there.

Flex Baths is depressing.

Cavernous and occupied by only a handful of elders, like ghosts. The architecture and furnishings are 100 years old, too.

I wish hot men under 50 still had a bathhouse culture, but it’s all been replaced by Grindr. Ugh.

I live in Europe for a while now, but for native Clevelanders in the know: Mr Hero, Dorothy Fuldheim, Dick Goddard, Mr Jingaling, Higbees, Big Chuck and Hoolihan, The Ghoul, WMMS the home of the Buzzard, Heinens, Manners, Corbo's Cassatta Cake, Romper Room with Miss Barbara, Euclid Beach Park, Geauga Lake, Ready Kilowatt, Kenny Kings, Lawsons, Superhost, Randall Park Mall (biggest in the world), the Ice Bowl, Uncle Bill's

R32 Yes. A spark from an electric bridge ignited an oil slick. Oil fires are hard to put out. It “sparked” a river cleanup. Could not happen today.

A lot of those things don’t exist anymore, r95.

I know, r97, and so no reason to return.

Like Chrissie, my city was gone.

Yeah Flex Spa has a lot of potential - but bathhouse culture is dying. Only in Cleveland could they afford to build and keep a place like that open. Though I made the mistake of trying to walk from there - scary.

R95 Wow , we must have led parallel lives. Remember the Twigbee shop at Higbee's at Christmas. ? I was born at Cleveland Clinic in 1957 but we left there in 1968 and it took our family YEARS to get over missing Cleveland!

R53 I think I know you. I was sorry you left town to move back to Boston. You were really unhappy here, but I’m not sure why. You pulled together a great group of guys and in a few weeks you’d built what I thought was an enviable social life. I was really looking forward to being a part of your group but for some reason I just wasn’t welcome, except for that one lovely afternoon at your home. Anyway, I am disappointed and a little hurt, but not bitter. I wish you well, better than well in fact.😀

R99 yes. Flex could have been great, but the owner founder died and whoever runs the gain now seems to have lost interest. If they put some money into it, and promoted it well, it could be a very popular spot.

Flex could be a great venue for a circuit party. But I’m amazed Cleveland has enough guys to keep it open. Do guys come from far away? I guess you have Dayton, Akron, maybe Columbus?

Cleveland has a lot going for it. Not sure about jobs - but as a city, lot worse places to be.

.......

So are Bounce and the bars around there - Ohio City (?) - still open? There was also a fun Sunday beer blast on the East side towards Flex. Been 6 years but I had a lot find there.

Cleveland during its glory days, as televised on an episode of Route 66.

Yum vintage George Maharis.

It looks like Cleveland will be one of the early US epicenters of coronavirus as well as a trailblazer in treatment via the Cleveland Clinic. I think we'll be hearing a lot more about it soon.

Our local hospital systems - CC, UH, and Metro (the county hospital) are doing a great job ...

The gays were exiled to Lakewood, so not quite as fashionable as it could be.

The gays are everywhere!

I've actually never been there but I like old rust belt cities...grew up in Upstate NY so I can relate. People are friendly, they generally have a great sense of humor due to always being shit on.

I liked Cleveland. And right now, I would love to live there. Not overly crowded and excellent and abundant health care. Congrats Clevelanders - appreciate where you live right now.

The art museum there just received a major bequest of world class paintings, making it even better.

$100,000,000

Light exhibition during the Gay Games.