I think it's time we revisit "The War of the Roses" (1989)

Ha OP watched it last week. Am still pissed that stupid shot of the dog in after she served the fucking thing up for dinner. The dog Died FFS!

Love the film, always have, De Vito was a deliciously dark director

I love it. Turner was brilliant. “Balls” said the Queen “if I had them, I’d be King”

This film is like Twin Peaks (which ran on ABC a few months later) - too ahead of its time. It's dark, its ending is dark. but somehow DeVito was able to find the right tone.

r1 is right - DeVito was a deliciously dark director.

I've never liked this movie, I guess I just never understood why turners character hated her husband so much. Turners body never looked better than it did in this movie though, she was fucking hot back in the day.

It's a terrific film about two shallow self-absorbed individuals who fall in then out of love with each other. It's interesting to see the slow step-by-step trajectory their relationship takes. Little steps, little remarks, little grievances.

This is a film that could be updated to reflect more selfishness and materialism. You'd need two strong leads, both who are talented in showing their dark side. Maybe Christian Bale and Charlize Theron.

All around perfection. Loved the movie.

Classic Kathleen -- especially her reaction to his reading her the note he wrote when he thought he was dying. A polite embarrassed smile and then a look of exhaustion and slow-burning fury as the note keeps going and gong. Some of her best work. And it's easy to forget just how good a Movie Star Michael Douglas has been. I never flash on him when asked about my favorite actors but he has been in a lot of great films. If nothing else, he has excellent taste.

(P.S. I am in a "War of the Roses" situation of sorts with my asshole downstairs neighbor and, thanks to this movie, I have basically said that legally I have been advised not to deal with him directly from hereon. Thanks to Devito's advice in this film and the fact that it could come to blows/murder in this case too if I don't disengage. I kid... sort of.)

Anyone whos ever had a relationship fail can totally relate to this movie.

Loved it, including the final gesture when she pushes away his hand.

Yes, r7 Douglas was excellent in this film, too. I really wish Douglas and Turner had done more films together. They had fantastic chemistry and it wasn't limited to adventure comedies.

Interesting r10 - I love that too! But I have debates with others who say they BOTH push their hands away. I have never bought that. It was obvious Barbara was pushing him away. I loved that gesture.

R11, I was pleasantly surprised to see Kathleen Turner in a cameo with Michael Douglas in “The Kominsky Method”. It’s on Amazon Prime.

It’s on Netflix r13

Oops. Thanks for the correction, r14.

It was sad how poor Marianne Sägebrecht was relegated to playing a maid in this one. I guess if you're fat and have a thick foreign accent that's the only kind of role you're allowed to play in Tinseltown.

It was sad how poor Marianne Sägebrecht was relegated to playing a maid in this one. I guess if you're fat and have a thick foreign accent that's the only kind of role you're allowed to play in Tinseltown.

I didn’t understand this film completely, until I went through my own divorce. And I wasn’t the one to bring in the drama. My ex has a penchant for revenge that I never knew existed, until he came after me, guns blazing.

I’m so fucking proud of myself, now, when I look back. I handled that breakup like a decent, and same adult. Inside, however, I was falling apart, and was DEEPLY hurt.

I realized that had I engaged him, I would not have gotten to the point where I eventually, literally, felt nothing for him. I probably would have hated him, and carried around long term resentment.

And that’s what I didn’t get as a youngster, when I first saw this. That a nasty divorce, or engaging a mentally fucked up spouse, when divorcing, is a fucking soul crusher, killing all that you were, before becoming mortal enemies with someone you once loved passionately, and more importantly, trusted with EVERYTHING.

Marriage is an unnecessary situation that I will most likely never, ever, attempt again. I finally love myself too much for something so risky and potentially INSANE, ever again.

Still believe in love. Just not into attorneys and divorce decrees.

Oh, and if fell head over heals in love with Turner because of her performance.

She was so fucking great, and she made this film the icon it is today, right along with DeVito. Michael Douglas was just being Michael Douglas. I loved him in “Falling Down”, and that’s about it.

Absolutely OP. I saw it last year. Excellent film.

With Homer's voice in a silent role!

God I hated it, I saw it with my parents who fought all the time, it was very awkward and unsettling. I never looked at Michael Douglas the same way again.

"Get out of the the car, hon"

It was masterful and beautiful, and very, very sad

R 10: Loved that final gesture as well. As death draws near , her hatred and repulsion grow. I love it

My BF and I are supposed to be separated, But, when I was in the hospital earlier this year, my brother asked my BF to visit, and he did very often. And referred to my brother as his "brother in law". Marriage is a strange business. What happens in families can be very odd.

One of my favorite films of ALL time. I HATE Oliver with a passion. R4 You don't understand WHY she hated him? SHE was the reason they had that house. SHE found it. SHE cleaned it (before the maid came in their old age.) SHE raised the children. When they were broke as fuck SHE found a way to buy him his dream car. She always supported him. And THEN, after YEARS of being molly the maid, when she wanted to go to work and find her own identity, Oliver didn't care or support her. She was an afterthought. That's why she got so mad when he didn't overlook that contract for her. I'm your WIFE and you can't take a minute to read something and look out for me? Nah. You got me fucked up. She felt like she couldn't be herself for the sake of Oliver's fake career image. It didn't stop Gavin from getting a foot job under the table! She sacrificed everything for him and all she wanted was her own life and the house. But being the scumbag Oliver was, he wouldn't do it. THAT pushed her over the edge. It would be hard not to kill him my damn self. HATED HIM. Oh, and HE killed her cat. He ruined her work dinner party. She never went to his job and pulled no shit. I really wish she would have come out on top. But nope, STUPID ass Oliver had to jump on the chandelier trying to play hero. I hate him so fucking much. You have no idea. AND He wanted the statue that was HERS. He didn't love her. Love would have given her the home and statue. Then maybe, she wouldn't have hated him so much. She should have crushed him in the car and really bit his dick off. My favorite part is when she throws his dumb ass out of the attic. I feel every part of that. haha.

Bravo r27!

This is why I miss IMDB. I miss discussions of movies.

R28 Thank you. ❤ I love discussing movies too.

[quote]Maybe Christian Bale and Charlize Theron.

The great thing about Turner's acting during this era is that she kept on surprising us with these interesting new facets of her personality. The part where she hires the maid after delivering the thoughtful monologue gets me every time.

Charlize has the right physicality, but since we know she's already nuts it wouldn't be nearly as much fun to watch. Bale and Theron would turn up the pitch to a horror film and it would get too nasty and unpleasant. De Vito obviously knows and loves these characters, and he allows the audience a certain amount of detachment by not judging them.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Turner and Douglas had some chemistry.

Anyone remember ROMANCING THE STONE?

No holds barred satire, with the stars at their very best. It's also a great looking movie, photographed by Stephen H . Burum, who also did gorgeous work with Coppola and De Palma. This shot recalls Citizen Kane.

I love their house. Perfectly decorated.

I happen to re-watch this film a couple of months ago for the first time since its cinema release in 1989.

I thought it held up reasonably well but I think the surprise element of the film hampered my second viewing. I still enjoyed but not as much as I did in 1989.

You bitches are slipping...

Great movie.

She was NOT the new me

No, Betty, she could act.

R39 I know that's right.

Possibly my favorite movie of all time. And perfectly summarizes my view of marriage. Passion that goes from positive to negative - and a legal contract rather than an emotional commitment. A horrible idea - and I’ve always known it.

Been with my partner for 22 years - but marriage I believe is the worst thing we could ever do. Any legalities and financial arrangements are handled as just that - specific contractual obligations. Marriage is an antiquated concept.

Kathleen insisted that they not be violent with each other in front of the children.

This might be the film that put me off marriage forever.

I wanted her pate recipe!

One of my all time faves, a family favorite when I was growing up.

Maybe I'm stupid but I didn't get the hatred she felt towards him. They were both assholes but we're suppose to root for her.

I don't think we're supposed to root for any of them. If anything, she has a slight advantage, but it's a race to the bottom. Fantastic film.

The whole point is hw the irrational passion turns to irrational hate. So true of many divorces I have witnessed. The ones who were so passionately, blindly in love with dreams of perfection had the nastiest, most hateful, bitter divorces.

That’s why I think the new trend for older educated professionals to marry other educated professionals has resulted in significantly lower divorce rates among the educated. It’s seen as what it is - a financial contract for the raising of children. The horrific failures are now largely the 20-something, rose-colored glasses wearing couples who think they have found their true love.

This was a fantastic film and was my parent divorce 100%. I watched this a few years back in the thick of it and it hold up very well. It's shocking how ugly, expensive, and irrational divorces can get, especially when the wife devotes her like to her husbands success. I don't think there is another movie like this out there. Agreed w/ other posters. I think a recast with Theron & Bale would be epic.

I don't think this picture can be re-made. Everything was perfect. Danny DeVito directed like nobody's business.

Woof.

I loved Kathleen in this and Douglas played a realistic asshole.

It was both stylised (visually, narratively) and realistic (in its portrayal of human behaviour). Fantastic picture.

I don't want a fucking remake. It's perfect.

I want the last shot of the dog edited out. Otherwise it is perfect

They were just playing themselves.

it was kind of a flop at the time but i LOVED it and still do. Dark, but hey, isn't life? She stole the movie along with Devito, though I think Douglas was elevated because of them.

Turner: What are you DOING? (to douglas, standing at the oven) Douglas: I'm pissing on the fish!

for me it's up there with Heathers and Withnail and I as dark comedies that sum up life very accurately.

The only thing I remember as noteworthy about this movie was the dick biting.

R47 I agree. I never got the feeling we were supposed to root for a certain side. I think it just is what it is.

I was rooting for him. He should have dump the frau.

"I want to say hello to the Bald Avenger". Priceless.

Selfish pricks, both of them!

The poor kids.

These two very shallow individuals ended up having overweight, miserable kids. That was so well-done.

They were only overweight for moment.

^^Way to totally miss the point.

R58 - “ The only thing I remember as noteworthy about this movie was the dick biting”.

...“noteworthy”...

How dare you waste thread space R58. Go back to your porn.

R65 I didn't miss the point. She fed them candy and thought it was no big deal and it showed she was wrong later but like I said, they grew out of it. Please shut up. It is not thay big of a plot point. I know that movie inside and out. Don't try me.

There was a private reading in New York of a musical version a few weeks ago, directed by Jason Alexander.

R67. I will not shut up, you pedantic loon.

^ I will bite your fucking cocks off.

R69 Hahaha! Stay mad.

I absolutely love the film, it's an underrated classic. I still feel bad for the husband, who got roped into the madness because of his bitch wife's inability to maturely communicate and the fact that she very clearly had no interest in trying to save their marriage. Although I don't have complete sympathy for him, when she told him out of the blue that she often fantasizes about him dying he was stupid for not fleeing from the house as fast as he can and assuming a new identity. If your spouse starts talking about imagining your death that's a sign from God: you married a wacko, run before you end up rotting in the dumpster behind Wendy's.

To me it’s an extreme portrayal of LTRs. The things that you love about your partner at the start of your relationship can easily pivot into the things you despise about them if you both don’t work on nurturing your relationship. This movie really exemplifies that in the Michael Douglas character. She matures and over the years realizes he’s a know it all, humorless prick. At the beginning she liked his steadiness and intelligence and later she found him to be a rigid, boring, stick in the mud.

I had sympathy for her at least because he resented her meager success and tried to squash it. She had done everything expected of her - raised children successfully (let’s forget their fat stage), created a beautiful home, stayed lovely-looking and vivacious. Then she was left with a hole in her life, so she took something she was good at and started making her own money. And he shat all over it because of his ego.

That’s from a woman’s perspective. Maybe men see it differently.

R74 No, that's how I saw it too.

Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito were at their prime when they made this film. Kathleen and Michael showed physical, humorous, and dramatic skills in THE WAR OF THE ROSES they never demonstrated before.

In my opinion, it seems Oliver's perspective was that he was a hard-working professional man, he loved / adored his wife, he was a loyal family man and worked hard. Oliver didn't cheat. He worked late and provided for his children and wife.

Then suddenly, out of the blue, Barbara wants a divorce and she couldn't give him a clear reason why she wants a divorce. (I thought that she just got sick of him yapping). Oliver wanted to understand why she's leaving him after he devoted himself to providing a life that Barbara never had. So Oliver was hurt (emotionally and physically) and he became resentful and started to fight back / defend himself.

It's a great movie and if Charlize Theron & Christian Bale aren't available for the remake, then I'd suggest Taraji P. Henson and Jamie Foxx, or Rachel Weisz & Tom Hardy & Peter Dinklage.

R76 Hardy and Bale are both too big and imposing to portray a schmuck like Douglas' character. Foxx would be perfect, and I'd say Amy Adams for Turner's role. Dinklage in place of Devito would be amazing, he could pull off that role perfectly.

I am the jelly jars that served as glasses like her mother used to use.

THIS MOVIE DOES NOT NEED A REMAKE!!!! It is so 1980s anyway. The greed of the characters is part of the fatal flaw that leads to their downfall. They both "bought" somebody else, in a way. And one day they're disappointed.

That's not how life works, that's not how relationships work, but capitalism and machismo will never tell you that.

R72 At least she was being honest. haha.

R76, I can see that, too.

It’s a great film.

"The greed of the characters"

Did you even see the film? Hardly about Greed (that would be "Wall Street"). They both wanted to win and neither could let the other do the same. If it's about any Deadly Sin, it's Pride.

Imagine if it had been made in the 1940s with Joan Crawford or Bette Davis.. Who would you cast as the male lead?

Totally still relevant. We are even more about money and real estate now. Timeless tale of what marriage does. Love love love this movie.

The movie was less of a moral lesson and more of an example of how marriage destroys love. Both the husband and the wife were good people who loved each other and their kids, but marriage destroyed that and slowly turned them spiteful.

[quote] Imagine if it had been made in the 1940s with Joan Crawford or Bette Davis.. Who would you cast as the male lead?

Why Bogey, of course.

R86 Yes!

Or William Holden.

Loved the movie when i first saw it, But I didn't like it when I rewatched it years later. Kathleen Turner's character was a psycho bitch. I was rooting for the husband.

Amateurs.

Not sure why everyone is is saying Turner was better than Douglas — I don’t think so at all.

Michael Douglas is great at comedy. Even his best dramatic roles are the ones that have more comedic elements to them (even if they are dark ones — ie Wonder Boys). When he does Very straight drama he can come off like a constipated bore.

“I’m gonna go piss on the fish” is the best line in the movie anyway.