California population growth slowest since 1900 as residents leave, immigration decelerates

William Frey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said Friday’s findings follow a trend that demographers have seen over several years. While California has always seen domestic outmigration — people moving to other states — the rate has grown over the last decade.

“For some years after the Great Recession housing crunch, California was losing domestic migrants — but not as much as it could have. Now that’s starting to push up again,” Frey said.

The most common destinations for those leaving the state were Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Oregon, Texas and Washington, he said, as the economy has picked up throughout the west and other parts of the country. Aside from a lower cost-of-living, some Californians are drawn to areas with no state income tax.

It’s too fucking expensive and crowded now, so this is not a surprise.

Good! We have more people than the nation of Canada, in a state a fraction of their size. This is great news.

Good, I am happy here in CA, got a beautifully place by the ocean, dream job, great income, best weather in the country couldn't be happier. Time for the rift raft to leave, they are mostly Deplorable and disgruntled Repugs so no loss. Bought my place 20 years ago so taxes are extremely low because unlike other states, you pay based on the original purchase price NOT the going market value.

And yet California had the 3rd largest increase in population

R5 I don't know how accurate those numbers are. I work for a school district in southern Cal, and all districts (except one district) are losing students. A lot of districts are closing schools because of it.

I’m a Californian who moved to Nevada. CA is too expensive. Two friends moved here 6 months ago for the same reasons. I haven’t met anybody here so far that’s not originally from California.

Yes, a lot of people are moving to Nevada, Arizona, or Texas.

What's a 'rift raft'? Is that a boat everyone jumps into when the Big One sinks CA?

[quote]Big One sinks CA?

California will not sink in an earthquake dipshit. If you must know the San Andres is a strike slip fault which mean the two plates slide in different directions. There will never be a separation or massive flood or whatever else you have seen in the disaster movies with the Rock.

California an American state leaves big countries like France and Italy in the rear view mirror and overtook the U.K. last year.

That's too bad. I was looking forward to blaming it on Nancy Pelosi.

A lot of Californians are moving to Idaho

Maybe the mass exodus will turn Arizona and Texas Blue.

It’s a factor

[quote]A lot of Californians are moving to Idaho

The racist Trump-humping ones. A lot of the migration outward is from Republicans and assorted trash who make noises about cost of living, but it's really that they want to be around more right-wingers, in a whiter location. We won't miss them.

LIbtards take note:Millions are moving to Montgomey Alabama cause it's a cultural hub and no state income tax! Did I mention we have THREE Piggly Wigglys?

for as nice as CA might be, it's just too damn expensive to live in

R7, good for you. I’ve lived in Las Vegas twenty years and the ones that are not from California are either drunks, gambling addicts, unfriendly as hell or crazy. Throw in some very isolationist Mormons that refuse to have anything to do with non-Mormons, and the Californians are your best bet for sane friends or neighbors.

Las Vegas seems to attract bipolars and addicts. The Californians at least are coming to buy a house, not because they have thirty warrants in their home state.

Watch out for people with home state plates (in Vegas you’re supposed to change it in a very short time), coupled with home state phone numbers and all their current address information as their home state, where they haven’t lived for years. Those people usually are either evading the cops or behind on their child support. I’ve even met some who have hinted openly about “I can never go back.” I’d much rather have some guy that’s tired of paying $3,000 a month rent than deal with that.

It was like Australia in the old open air prison days before the Californians showed up. And full of Deplorables, who are now pissed they’re being drowned out by blue voters.

Nice? Half the Country think California is a cesspool with Homeless and excrement all over the public street

Is it cold today in Oklahoma City? ^^^^

Like NYC, a victim of too much financial success. As the country becomes financially more polarized, it’s forcing middle class to locate. Texas here we come - where I can afford a house on $70,000 year salary.

I used to live in SoCal and it got too $$$ so now I live in NYC which is actually cheaper and jobs pay better. Who would have thought?

California was overpopulated in 2010 and it's still overpopulated now. Weird article.

R19 I still have my 818 area code. I’ve never been told to change it. And most people I know from CA or elsewhere who’ve moved to Vegas still have their former city area codes for their phones.

I've lived in California for 6 years. I still have my old mobile number, but I got an 818 for google voice

During the last recession, I saw car after car with Nevada license plates. I wondered if these people had to come back to live with family because the recession crippled the service industry.

I live on the Westside of LA and I wish people would start moving out. The density of the growth has been unreal, even in the last few years. I do agree that housing has gotten totally out of control, but people are still buying. 4,5,6 million dollar homes are going in one week and I'm not even in what one would considered a high end neighborhood.

I think a retiree who sells for a large profit and gets out of California is probably making a good decision. However, the concept of adding footage above a garage and creating a rental unit has also become big and people are getting outlandish rents from them.

[quote]Nice? Half the Country think California is a cesspool with Homeless and excrement all over the public street

As opposed to the private streets?

Go ahead and think California sucks. Then you'll stay the fuck away, and we can enjoy our lovely state without the detritus of 'half the country' sullying it.

Those that can't hack it in CA belong in fly over land anyway. Bon voyage!

Friends are starting to move back east. After 10 years in CA, they're tired of many things. (Wanting perfect weather is a sad kind of desire. Like it really matters in the end and it isn't one of the causes of our massive homelessness problem.) I'd move if I could, but younger partner has lucrative job here.

I have noticed that a lot of the exodus is a reverse white flight. Many, many African Americans and Latinos are leaving. The African American migration has been going on for over a decade but the Latino flight is more recent. Settling in Texas or Nevada makes more sense because of cost of living.

R31 Where are you from? From what I can tell, the white neighborhoods are becoming less white or staying the same.

Liberals need to stop clumping in a few states and spread out to states they can turn purple like Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, and Texas.

R30, are you fucking kidding? Weather in California is a huge reason for homeless problems. Where would you rather sleep outside, in 65 degree weather or in Minnesota in 18 degree weather.

R32, Cheviot Hills. The families moving in are either white or Asian.

And traditionally African American or Latino neighborhoods like Highland Park and View Park have become much, much whiter.

As far as I'm concerned, California reached its most peak population sometime in the mid to late 90s. Even back then, middle class wages could support a large family. These statistics are quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

R36 It's becoming prohibitively expensive.

Finally some good news.

R38, that was five years ago. A more recent article from NY Times. This sort of gentrification isn't new but the minorities who are moving out aren't being replaced by others.

The economic success of Asian Americans is helped by their homes which often include the parents. Three generations in one home isn't such a bad idea, although not an historically American one.

Can’t wait till the whole shithole state burns or has a gigantic earthquake that kills the entire population. The US doesn’t need California problems creeping westward. In the meantime I’d love to build a wall (similar to the southern US border wall) and keep everyone inside California and never let them leave. We also would do no importing of goods and services and shoot anymore trying to escape.

R41, I love that your parody post includes the apt observation that California problems creep Westward.

R4/R16- I hope you'll be happy with the million homeless people instead of the 'rift raft" who actually pay taxes.

I can pay about the same for a crappy 1BR in crappy Koreatown as in NYC - but I need a car and everything is spread out. I’ll take 4 seasons and the density of NYC for the same price. LA only made sense when it was cheaper. It’s gotten insane in the past few years. Maybe a good housing crash can help.

Yeah, California’s reputation has taken a huge skid this decade. More People now think of it as a place of rampant homelessness and public waste than view it as a glitzy affluent state.

[quote]The US doesn’t need California problems creeping westward.

I'll say!

Guam agreed

A big part of California's problems is simply all the Mexicans infiltrating the state.

Not anymore

[quote]got a beautifully place by the ocean

[quote]Time for the rift raft to leave

It's the American Dream for people as dumb as this to make tons of money and live in a "beautifully place" without having to deal with "rift raft."

The Mexicans are heading to Texas, Nevada and Arizona instead. Cheaper housing.

As a Californian, I like R41's idea of building a wall on the eastern border (since R41 is geolocation-impaired, he'll have no idea what I'm writing about), and stopping trade between the state and the rest of the US. Do you think this would hurt California? Or would we just sell all those fruits, vegetables, oil, entertainment, and last but certainly not least, technology to Canada, Mexico and overseas customers? And who pays more for these types of good, the poors in flyoverstan or the rest of the world? Without California, people in middle America couldn't afford a head of lettuce. And not to mention that California's cash flow to the Federal government would cease, meaning that there's gonna be a whole lot of deplorables going hungry for lack of food stamps, paid courtesy of California's workers. And the money could stay right here in California where it would actually do some good!

Meanwhile, the only stipulation I'd add to R41's wonderful idea is that there be no immigration from Jesusland into the newly formed country of California, which would abate our homeless problem by about 98%. No more one-way bus tickets as a solution to the homeless problem in all those states where they're such good, kind people... Hallelujah!

People fleeing California for more affordable areas is a real thing. I have two relatives who just left in the last six months. And they are not looking back. Both are very happy with their decisions. Several friends and acquaintances over the years moved there when young, only to move back (east coast) when the kids came along for better schools.

Seasons too. If you grew up with four seasons you really miss it after a while. It marks time and helps you appreciate the cycles of nature. Just when you're sick of winter, the snow melts, the forsythia blooms and people come out of hiding, turning their faces to the sun with a smile. You can just feel the joy it brings.

Spring - renewal, a chance to start over. Everything is so green and bright it puts a 'spring' in your step.

Summer - back yard barbecues, fun in the sun and beach weekends. Appreciated all the more because the season is so fleeting.

Fall - the hangover from carefree summer. Time to get serious and buckle down to work, like the first day of a new school year. Plus, the red, orange and gold colors of the leaves turning can take your breath away.

Winter - a time to reflect, hibernate a bit and recharge, rest and relax by the fire with some hot cocoa.

I couldn’t live without seasons

I couldn't live without Good Seasons.

Hawaii would be perfect, with only one season.

I had friends who moved back to the Midwest with a lot more $$ after relocating to California. They hated the traffic. One told me they would run to the convenience store for a carton of milk, which would take about 15 minutes here, and be gone over an hour. Another colleague moved farther east after relocating to California. She was never able to afford a house even with a decent job and now she can. She'll be retiring in the next few years and wanted to do so in comfort.

The optimist in me hopes that when they left California, they took some of our values and ideals with them and plant them wherever they land, growing into to a more prosperous, hopeful country. The US would be better off if it embraced some of our better ideas, like diversity in all things, renewable energy, and corporate responsibility. We're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we're a whole lot better off than the majority of the states. The funny thing about all of the carping here on DL, the people who are my friends and neighbors in sunny Southern California love it here and wouldn't live anywhere else. I've lived all over the US, and there is no place like California.

A big part of California's problems is simply all the Mexicans infiltrating the state.

Mexicans ruined Phoenix, two thirds of that city are pure mexican ghetto.

[quote]I used to live in SoCal and it got too $$$ so now I live in NYC which is actually cheaper and jobs pay better. Who would have thought?

No one because that's not possible. NYC real estate is by farm more expensive that LA. Jobs pay more there because cost of living is more. The only way your statement could be true is if you seriously downgrade from a 2 bedroom condo in LA to a 500sq ft studio in NYC.

[quote]I can pay about the same for a crappy 1BR in crappy Koreatown as in NYC.

BS, I have a friend that lives in K-Town part of LA. Not a great neighborhood but they pay 2,000 a month for a 2 bedroom 2 bath with parking. Lots of windows and light on a quite street. Where in NYC can you get a 2 bed, 2 bath for 2,000? In the actual city, not Hoboken NJ.

FACT; Average 2 bedroom in NYC 3,746. Almost double that of LA.

Dang

R53 = Sounds like a Frau has been sniffing too many Yankee Candles.

None of that "seasons of life" shit sounds desirable. Like a bad Hallmark movie of the week.

It always amuses me when I run into Haters of California. They love to say that people are leaving, taxes are so high they are all moving to Texas. Well, I have literally been hearing that for about 30 years! If there were any truth to that this place should be sparcely populated by now not double what it was when I first started hearing that from people who to no surprise were right wing conservatives.

But back to my point, they think saying that is a bad thing, like I don't know, people leaving a popular night club? What they don't get is we don't want more people here. It's not a popularity contest. It was quite nice and progressive and booming economy with half the population there is now. People leaving would actually be good news!

Thinning the herd of Deplorables is a good thing.

Deplorables leaving California for flyoverstan. "“We’re moving to redder pastures,"

#NOTSAD

[quote]A big part of California's problems is simply all the Mexicans infiltrating the state.

Go fuck yourself, pendejo. Mexicans have been in California since the 18th century - many of us were actually born here, to parents who were born here, and them to parents who were born here. Our state is not being 'infiltrated'. We have problems here, some like any other state, others more specific to ourselves. But the Fox News portrait of a state in total chaos, awash in some kind of invasion while simultaneously experiencing a biblical-level exodus is pure nonsense.

[quote]Mexicans ruined Phoenix, two thirds of that city are pure mexican ghetto.

What was there to "ruin"? Phoenix has always been a shithole. And I'll take the Mexicans over the trashy white methheads or old white rednecks any day.

I find it amusing how the Californians are attempting to defend their declining state. California has become the first Socialist state in the US (as much as the Feds will allow it) and we are seeing the devastating consequences now in the form of tent cities, unsanitary public areas, skyrocketing prices of essential goods, and rising crime. I think the border wall is an excellent idea, and to the poster above that said we in the true US would be without lettuce if we rejected California, I’m laughing out loud. I’ve grown lettuce for years in my Texas garden.

R68 types like a deplorable

FF r68

R68 Only people from TexASS think they can compare to California. Your state is a gross joke.

I spent 3 years semi full time in Los Angeles back in the 80s. The weather was the thing I disliked the most about it. I'm from the east where we have 4 very distinct seasons. 80° on Christmas day is just sad.

I hate the weather there. I need cold and snow

California bashing is such a Fox News thing. The economy is booming, it’s expensive because everyone wants to live there.

Good. California doesn't need anymore people. Are reports like this really a bad thing. Some of these place like the entire state of California and NYC population needs to level off for a good decade. There's too many fkin people with not enough infrastructure. I love California, greatest place ever.

In Texas, the oil refineries explode and kill entire towns.

Well most states want robust population growth because it adds revenue

R6 An academic friend was telling me about this. They were way less kids born starting in the late 90s and each year after. Dramatic differences. The population after millenials will be half its size. Some maybe its not a bad thing that so many 40 yr old millenials still act like their 20. We might need more twenty year olds for the culture.

A plateauing population is a sign of stagnation or decline. Texas is booming economically largely because of industry growth that leads to population growth

I give R68 credit. He admits he's an AWG and not very smart.

CA is still the world's 5th largest economy, ranking with the most productive COUNTRIES. If you don't like it, you can leave it.

Homeless and excrement on the streets isn't exclusive to SF or CA.

R65: Where they gonna haul ass to when Texas flips blue in the next decade? Oklahomo?

Is the trash at R68 prepared to supply the entire country with lettuce grown in his garden, like California does? No? Then shut the fuck up.

I'm a 7th generation Texan and I would move to California in a heartbeat if I could afford it

I am a former Californian and landed in Phoenix in order to have cheaper housing. About everyday I think about returning to California. Most people don't live in Phoenix for any other reason but cheaper housing costs.

But that’s a huge and deciding factor

Who wants to move to California? Even Mexicans can see what a shit how USA is. I mean... people don't exactly feel welcome because of Trump. Then there's the extremely high living costs. It makes sense that people get sick of it and move to another place where they can live better.

I want a rift raft.

California is absolute utopia. Huge cities, diversity, and the beach is right there. The hottest and smartest people are all in Cali. Fuck off haters.

Diversity is overrated.

[R-13]--Yes, Californians are moving to Idaho; a state with no minimum marriage age, no regulations regarding home schooling, an 80 mph speed limit, guns galore, and a lot of Trumpers. As a consequence, home prices are skyrocketing and development is running wild. It will not end well.

R90, Your a dumb ass overrated bitch. You will never make it in this town.

R89 I recently moved to So Cal after a lifetime in Flyoverstan and just absolutely LOVE it here.

[quote]And traditionally African American or Latino neighborhoods like Highland Park and View Park have become much, much whiter.

Latinos and Blacks have become much whiter too...

It's called mixing.

Conservatives love to bash California for being “socialist” but surprisingly corporations have their run of the place in some ways (ie PG&E, which will raise everyone’s rates to pay for the fires. Also, our local refineries aren’t held to a high enough standard to protect our air). Unregulated corporate greed is a problem everywhere. We’re not perfect and we’re not a cesspool, either. And yes, it’s expensive to live here. But at least I know I can wave a human rights flag in front of my home without getting physically assaulted or someone burning my house down. Where I live, I feel safe and I know that folks in my town will fight for clean air and better living conditions for folks. I like having that piece of mind. And also being a few hours from beaches, a day trip to mountains, and a short drive to some beautiful redwood trees. And our state stands up to Trump’s bullshit and ICE raids. We also provide a lot of this country’s food, so if you want to complain about California, prepare to pay A LOT more money for your groceries if you put your money where your mouth is.

*I meant peace of mind

Believe it or not this is a good thing.

1) The over 70 crowd in California is dying off, and it is lowering the % of the budget that is destine for pensions and social services. A great relief for the state budget. The over 70 crowd in California is dying off at a

2) California has the largest share of under 18 people in the United States. California will see an upswing of births in the next decade. California still remains the youngest state.

3) The state will hit a landmark in 2020 by hitting the 40 million mark in population. The state can afford to shed a few residents because the population doesn't have a negative birth rate and Gen Z and post Gen Z will be replenishing the state with babies within the next decade.

4) The state has only increased, not decreased, the responsibility of providing a food supply to the rest of the nation. While there has been an exodus of population and businesses. The state has increased its business start ups compared to the rest of nation. The Trump administration has tried to kill California's green industry, and while it has succeed in slowing it down, Trump has only increased the gap between California and the rest of the nation as the state has made gains on agriculture/technology/businesses. In other words, the Trump administration has made the nation more dependent of the state of California instead of doing the opposite.

5) Most of the losses in population that California has suffered is too neighboring states, meaning California still sees some of that income because of the state's involvement with Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Hawaii, Washington, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and Texas. DC might not be paying attention to what is happening to the West, but those states I have named are becoming vital to each other. It's becoming a different business culture to the rest of the country.

As long as the city governments and legislature protect the inalienable human right to poop anywhere at all, it's all good.

California is not known for the intelligence of its people. In fact, it has one of the lowest education attainment levels in the nation.

Utah is the youngest state in the union, with a median age of 30.5 years.

Actually, California is the 7th youngest with the median age of 36, which seems average.

R35 I grew up in Cheviot Hills on the Tennis Court side of the park. Happy times.

So many Californians in Las Vegas, I feel like I'm still in LA.

R102, Travis Barker sold his house that had to be right near where you grew up.

Some of the California defenders on this thread sound like toddlers having a tantrum.

Trump’s tax reforms incentivize people to move from high tax blue states to low tax red states. Folks, are voting with their feet.

Trump’s tax reforms incentivize people to move from high tax blue states to low tax red states. Folks, are voting with their feet.

I had some deplorable friends who were so upset when Gavin Newsome became governor they threatened to leave California because they told me "CA has become a Maoist state". Eventually they compromised and moved to Hemet which is the Tyler TX of SoCal.

I left 15 years ago and don't regret it.

R99 you must be confusing us with Mississippi or Kentucky

The two major cities have become preposterously expensive to live in. And unlike New York City, where salaries are inflated due to living expenses, Los Angeles only became prohibitively expensive over the last 20 years. Something like 26% of the economy in Los Angeles is under the table. My guess is that salaries have not kept up and younger people with outrageous student loans, which is also a relatively new phenomenon, can’t make their way into the city or move anywhere close to it to try to get a foothold (meaning moving within one hour away, which isn’t very far due to traffic). San Francisco is also expensive but it’s incredibly tiny. Remember, the average person in Los Angeles is paying seven to $800 more (per month!) for the same exact apartment that they did seven or eight years ago.

SF is out of the question for many people now, because of the insane cost of living. You need a lot of money to live there.

Overregulation has ruined California. A 2016 National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) study estimates that regulatory costs have increased the price of a new single-family home by 30 percent in the first half of the decade. Another NAHB study found that regulations account for a third of new multifamily regulatory costs.

The people who bear the burden of these regulations are renters and new home purchasers who find themselves shelling out more money for the same amount of housing.

Some cities, such as Houston, have managed to stay affordable despite tremendous growth precisely because local officials have decided not to micromanage what new housing will look like or where it can be built.

California's image has taken a real hit in recent times. California used to be thought of as a sunny playground, easy living, glamorous etc. None of that exists anymore in the popular imagination. Today it's overcrowded, expensive, insane traffic, tons of homeless, tons of third worlders impacting the quality of life, among other negative things. The image of California was so positive for so long, now it's luster has really gone.

R115 - so insightful. I remember growing up in Texas in the 80s thinking California was this golden paradise with mountains, beaches, and sunshine. Now when I’m forced to visit LA and SF I dread the gridlock traffic, homeless beggars, trash everywhere, high prices, and miserable people. It truly is a shithole.

The cost of living is out of alignment in this state. There are six figure earners who are struggling to pay rent and can't afford to purchase their own modest home. This makes no sense.

When people making $100,000 a year are living out of vans because they can't afford an apartment, you know shit has gone completely insane.

People who make 100, 000 dollars a year can afford to live in either city. Maybe 30,000 a year for rent and another 30,000 for taxes.

r119 there are parking lots full of vans and campers and tent cities populated by people who make good salaries.

r119 and how about paying your student loan debt with that kind of skewed expense?

Why don’t they move like the smart people?

The state is on fire every year lately. San Francisco is only affordable for multimillionaires. They’re running out of water. When I was young 20 years ago, Sunny California seemed like a dream. Now it just seems dreadful.

I make between 70 and 85k a year in LA and I have a nice apartment (that I share, yes). Not sure why anyone making 100k plus is living in a van.

An RV Camp Sprang Up Outside Google’s Headquarters. Now Mountain View Wants to Ban It

With house prices out of reach, where will the van dwellers go?

LA housing price increases are a bubble waiting to burst - again. Seems like LA housing always has the biggest swing in bubbles - super inflated then big crash. Which makes sense. Because people aren’t making the money in LA that they do in SF - not even proportionate. I think LA is temporarily overinflated. Unsustainable.

R116 If you wanted to give America an enema you'd put the nozzle in Texass

R108 Love your comment. Tyler is my hometown. Alas, Hemet isn't Tyler. Tyler is pretty. Hemet is not. Tyler keeps riffraff out. Hemet is the sex offender capital of CA. Sex offender parolees are dropped off there. No, I'd say Hemet is the Waco or Plano of California.

I have this theory about CA after living in San Diego for 20 years. The people who move here are obsessed with "The Beach." They want to be teenagers again. Rich Iowans and Texans sell up and build their dream homes in CA. Some are successful at copping the mindless re-adolescence. They bike on beach cruisers and take their dogs and frisbees to the beach. Live their dream. Others come, try it. They're bored or miss their old church buddies. They live here for 10 years, sell up, and move back home. CA is the Dream State. The people who come want to reinvent themselves as winemakers, artists, beachy teenagers, eternally young, whatever they aren't back in Mississippi. That's why I miss real places where people live and create their lives based on place, lifelong connections, and reality. Heavy thoughts this Christmas morning, for me. But not surprising as I sit in a sea of tacky, over-decorated, over-lighted houses where no one realizes that grownups don't festoon their homes willynilly with every strand of Christmas lights they can buy at RiteAid. God I miss simple evergreen wreaths and a few tasteful window candles.

Zee Kreshmaz is zee bling bling

Idaho has a lot of rich people.

R129: MARY!!!!!!

Hey, r114, remember Harvey? Remember all the houses built in flood zones in west Houston? I don't know how many home owners had to be bought out so they wouldn't rebuild in areas that never should have been approved for development.

Houston is my hometown, and I love it. But let's not glorify the utter failure to regulate. Let's aim for some place in between, albeit leaning more toward Houston.

r129 I feel you. I've been in LA from NYC for 30 years. I miss real people. I work in entertainment so I have met hundreds of people. Unfortunately most of them do not form real bonds with anyone except whoever they marry, their kids or who they settle down with. No one values friendship, true friendship and that's one of the reasons it's a very lonely place.

I am sick to death of the beach mentality. I'm tired of hearing straight guys talk about surfing, if you work around large crews of guys that's going to happen. If it's not surfing then they are talking about snowboarding or skateboarding. So many frozen in that juvenile teenage dude mentality. I wonder how women stand it, not a brain cell to fire off between them.

What is wrong with surfing and skateboarding in middle age. But it would be fine if they played tennis? I'm really not understanding you insufferable faggots.

Really great insights on the CA as the eternal adolescence dream. And lol at the middle aged surfer dudes trying to relive their dream. So true. I admit I was caught in that too when I was younger. But now when I go, it just turns me off - even the elderly use money to reinvent themselves as carefree and youthful. The Bryan Singer thing - old guys trying to be young - is a perfect representation.

CA is a dream. Live your life where you are - for 1/3 the price. Visit ofte or live there for a year when young. But I’ve learned you really don’t need to LIVE there and spend every penny on surviving - and feel perpetually poor. And really no one goes to the beach after their first year there.

[quote]Really great insights on the CA as the eternal adolescence dream. And lol at the middle aged surfer dudes trying to relive their dream. So true.

Exhibit A:

R134 What's wrong with the beach?

California explained.

In 2004 I left my home of southern California and an annual salary of $65k to move to Las Vegas for a new job at double the salary.

By 2008 I had developed alcohol, drug and gambling addictions. Lost my job, went into deep depression/psychosis and my home forclosed. Had to return home to live with parents at age 40. Ten years later I'm still trying to rebuild my life. I'll never leave California again.

R140 You probably would have fucked up along the way somehow no matter what.

R139...not entirely wrong. Sometimes when I leave the cities I feel like I'm in Alabama

Chico is a nice city

[quote] That's why I miss real places where people live and create their lives based on place, lifelong connections, and reality.

There are millions of people doing these things in California. If you're not meeting them or connecting with them, that's you.

[quote] I've been in LA from NYC for 30 years. I miss real people. I work in entertainment so I have met hundreds of people. Unfortunately most of them do not form real bonds with anyone except whoever they marry, their kids or who they settle down with. No one values friendship, true friendship and that's one of the reasons it's a very lonely place.

As above, what you're talking about is an industry thing, and a class thing. There are plenty of 'real' people in LA, it's just that you don't associate with them. Those drones who clean your house, or make your food, or fix your plumbing? Those are real people. They have real lives, and real friendships. There's nothing more annoying than LA-based transplants who make sweeping generalizations about whole cities or the whole state based on their very narrow lifestyle and choices. California is an incredibly diverse place is all ways.

R144 I agree. Also, the entire state is not LA or what people assume LA to be. SoCal has a certain reputation for being shallow that isn’t always warranted. I live in NorCal and we have a reputation for being more hippie-like and caring less about appearance, but that’s not always true either. Sweeping generalizations are superficial at best and flat-out wrong at worst.

I have lived in Ca. for 50 yrs. I am low income and was lucky enough to find a tiny house. I stayed put. I welcome the news that people are leaving.

I’ll take California any day over Seattle.

Why?

You really have to live in a city or wealthy beach town if you live in California. The rural areas and suburbs are infested with nasty trash.

I grew up in a rural area in another part of the US. Lots of very low-key wealth (huge farms) and religious but very warm and nice people.

In the rural areas of California, so many are tatted up, obese, hostile, and seem to be petty criminals.

And the dumbest, most redneck people you’ll ever meet live in the CA suburbs. I swear they are mentally deficient.

On the east coast, suburbs are often nice areas with good schools. In California, the suburbs are where the hicks move to try to eke out an existence.

Texas is on path to overtake California in population by 2045.

California's biggest issue is Prop 13, which is nothing more than rent control for homeowners, which as any student of Econ 101 can tell you doesn't work.

Currently California has nearly half a trillion dollars in unfunded pensions. Cities like Stockton and San Bernadino are still funding the equivalent of three fully staffed police and fire forces (two of which consist of fully retired firefighters and cops).

California currently works as it is still the place to be, so those with skill will move and pay high costs, but most make enough money to cover it. However illegal immigrants still come mostly into California for their ability to find work and get services. Which offsets the problem of servicing highly paid individuals.

Seattle lacks diversity and is full of strange people. It’s the weirdest culture I’ve ever experienced. California has many faults but it beats Seattle.

Hopefully Texas will be a blue state by 2032

R150 - agree the pension time bomb is probably the biggest gift from the boomers that will blow up a lot of economies. I like they way you put it - funding three forces.

It’s even worse in lots of the Northeast though. My town’s budget for schools - the biggest tax issue - is 60% current expenses and 40% pensions. And now with the Trump state/local tax elimination - which basically means a 25-35% net increase in those taxes - it’s an even bigger burden for high tax areas.

The next economic downturn is going to expose some serious fiscal issues. Just like the 2008 recession resulted in bankruptcies of certain towns.

R150, according to the article OP posted, those immigrants aren't coming to California as much, which I do find ridiculous because someone has to be picking those grapes in 120 degree weather for 5 bucks an hour.

[quote] someone has to be picking those grapes in 120 degree weather for 5 bucks an hour.

R154, I'm sure it's Don and Dee Plorable in their hoverounds, since they are the types always whining about people stealing their jobs.

Thanks for this thread. Demographics are fascinating. I hope California pulls it together because it’s always been a bellwether for the rest of the nation.

True

California’s overregulation is harming the state

r158 doesn't remember the smog in LA in the 70s. Or doesn't give a rip.

My friend moved to Seattle, so it can't be all that bad.

[quote]On the east coast, suburbs are often nice areas with good schools.

Ha! You've revealed yourself as a moron.

[quote]the suburbs are where the hicks move to try to eke out an existence.

Well, it is cheaper to live in the middle of nowhere, but regardless I think you've confused "suburbs" with "exurbs" and frankly, "rural". The Central Valley is full of poor redneck rightwing loons that believe they have special status, but which is constantly contradicted and denied by the overwhelming number of people living in our two major metropolises, suburbs and exurbs. And indeed, they are tatted, obese, hostile and petty criminals... or at least their representation in Congress is (Devin Nunes and prison-bound Duncan Hunter are only missing their facial tattoos). But this is the way it should be all over the country. Rural Americans are no better nor any worse than urbanites, and this idea that living in a rural area makes you more "American" has got to come to an end. Once again, California leads the way.

[quote]the dumbest, most redneck people you’ll ever meet live in the CA suburbs. I swear they are mentally deficient.

Which only indicates you don't get out much. Have you ever heard of this place called "Florida"? Perhaps you'd like to book an organized hatred vacation to eastern Oregon and Washington, right near the Idaho panhandle. Better yet, put on your gay pride T-shirt and go anywhere in the South.

But enough with the wedge-driving issues dividing our peoples. Embrace our rural folk, for they reproduce and provide us with a continuous crop of blond-haired blue-eyed corn fed boys sufficient to keep the fantasy alive.

OK r160. Seattle is overrated.

California would obviously be better off with a few million more residents.

[quote] Seasons too. If you grew up with four seasons you really miss it after a while.

Southern California does have seasons -- they're just more subtle. Also, there are microclimates here. I just visited some friends who live up in the mountains and it's a winter wonderland at the moment. Snow everywhere and just a 25 minute drive up from the flatlands.

We do miss out on the beautiful fall foliage of other states though.

Yes it so crowded, especially in the Santa Yenes Valley.

Suffering in Lake Tahoe

Beaches are so overrated here

I just hate trees and waterfalls taller than most skyscrapers.

It's just one big wasteland

Wild Zebras are so scary.

Hate those damn wildflowers, aren't poppies the work of the Wicked Witch of the West?

The coastline is just littered wit houses.

California’s Carrizo Plain just so mundane.

Largest Trees it the world, older than 3,500 years but hay, we were supposed to drop off in the ocean any day now. Tree is still waiting. Older than the Roman empire.

Just no where to get away to in Mammoth Lake.

R165-R175? All of that is right outside your door to enjoy everyday? LOL. I think the view @ R167 is from an exclusive golf course you will never step foot on.

I'll bet this is what you see most days:

And it never snows here either.

Texas is so much better. Opps, maybe not.

Austin Texas is very trendy I hear, its so clean and full of artsy types.

The pissed soaked streets are just lovely this year - Austin Texas

But the houses are so much more affordable in Texas

Socialist sate? By Texas standards, all of the original thirteen colonies were socialist. James Madison said the best way to control destructive factionalism in a republic was to TAX THE RICH TO MEDIOCRITY and SUPPORT THE POOR TO COMFORT. We lost this lesson due to taking an ignorant province of Mexico called Tejas where there is Stupid in the water supply.

As to socialism as a party, well North Dakota is one of our leading oil states and they've had socialist government. Wisconsin has too and it is manifestly still a better place than Texas despite deplorables like Scott Walker trying to destroy it.

Nationalize the oil and gas industry and when the sky doesn't fall in, you will see Texas turn on the rich and slaughter them in their beds.

good, we got too many fukkers here! go to Arkansas and montana u skunts.

NYT: But California also has a pernicious housing and homeless problem and an increasingly destructive fire season that is merely a preview of climate change’s potential effects. Corporations like Charles Schwab are moving their headquarters elsewhere, while Oracle announced that it would no longer stage its annual software conference in San Francisco, in part because of the city’s dirty streets. “Shining example or third-world state?” a recent headline on a local news website asked.

“You get depressed if you listen to everything going on, but you can’t find a contractor and the state continues to create jobs,” said Ed Del Beccaro, an executive vice president with TRI Commercial Real Estate Services, a brokerage and property management company in the Bay Area.

California dreaming....on such a winter day....

still the best dam state in usa.

viva la pacific ocean baby..

R161 So you've been to Hemet?

That only rich people can afford.

I've found the biggest CA defenders are the people who grew up here and have never really been anywhere else. I don't mean as tourists. They do what they think they are supposed to and visit Paris. I'm talking about traveling and hanging out with people in other parts of the country. I've lived in 8 different places across the US, including NYC, VA, TX, CT, MA, NC. All were great, and there are wonderful things about southern CA, but it is not the be-all and end-all of US living. By a longshot. Californians are largely humorless, adolescent, and unable to understand sarcasm or criticism. It's the natives who make me crazy in CA.

Totally agree, r190.

Those of you that live bumfukistan are just jealous of the greatest state in the union.

Everyone I know who went to CA to live the dream when young has come back east. The most recent couple just retired and is so relieved to be out of there. They sold their house in SoCal and made a good profit ($1M), but were worried about another crash on the horizon. They felt they made it out just in time.

[quote]Everyone I know who went to CA to live the dream when young has come back east. The most recent couple just retired and is so relieved to be out of there. They sold their house in SoCal and made a good profit ($1M), but were worried about another crash on the horizon. They felt they made it out just in time.

See, that's typical east coast transplant. Outsiders move to CA, exploited its beauty and resources, make a ton of money in their economy where they would not have anywhere else. Then complain it sucks and move back to their impoverished shit hole they came from and live like kings.

It's those very same people who come to CA and do exactly what they complain about. It's Trumpian logic.

[quote]I've found the biggest CA defenders are the people who grew up here and have never really been anywhere else. I don't mean as tourists. They do what they think they are supposed to and visit Paris.

Weird logic. Why would someone think they have to go to Paris? You realize there are many different cultures in LA Right? Paris is not at the top of anyone's list unless you are some privileged white east coast elitist with ties to the old country and Europe as your motherland.

I don't think the average person in SoCal who might be Mexican, Korean, Salvadorian, Black, Japanese, Persian, Filipino, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Hawaiian, Israelis all talk about Paris as some kind of dream destination they feel obliged to visit.

[quote] All were great, and there are wonderful things about southern CA, but it is not the be-all and end-all of US living.

Who says it is? AGAIN, we have a non-native who is judging an entire state - a massive one with many different regions and 40 million people - by ONE region of it, and oftentimes not even truly the region but by one of its dominant industries. What is that but a provincial attitude?

I know people on the east coast who have been to CA several times and still think it only consists of Hollywood and SF, and Hollywood isn't even a actual city, its a neighborhood.

It's like saying Europe consists of London and Paris all other countries are just small irrelevant neighborhoods.

A lot of people who judge California have never lived there, only visited and saw something that fit with previously-held biases. I have a super-conservative relative who hated California just because it’s progressive and then when he visited once, saw someone open up the back of a car during a red light and steal stuff out of the back. I’ve lived in California for 4 years and have never seen something like that once. But he loves to tell that story and talk about the cost of gas there to argue how “crazy” California is.

An East Coast resident who loves CA and always wanted to live there. Now after going at least once a year for 25 years, I no longer feel the need to live there - it’s gotten so expensive and too crowded. I still love it - and appreciate why people live there. But I find I can enjoy it more as a visitor. A summer trip to the north - escaping the summer heat. A Fall or late winter trip South - enjoy the warmth.

The economy is what makes it expensive - which is good and bad.

R195, I agree that's one of those weird, East Coast/European arguments. To suggest that defenders who grew up in California have never lived anywhere else really underscores the biases of the poster.

Honey, I’ve lived all over California for 25 years. I’ve also lived all over the US.

The most insular, backward, and—frankly— stupid people I’ve ever met were from California.

It’s a thing.

Aren’t they losing thousands of homes to wildfires every year?

[quote]he loves to tell that story and talk about the cost of gas there to argue how “crazy” California is.

Thats funny, I heard the same thing a few months ago from my partners sister from the east coast. We weren't even home from the airport before they went off on how high the price of gas was and it must be "that democrats control Calif" and "the taxes are so high everyone is moving to Texas" BS conservatives love to repeat at nauseam. And his Trumpiter gold digging sister and rich older husband are literally mult-millionaires. They never having to worry about the price of gas for the rest of their lives.

[quote]An East Coast resident who loves CA and always wanted to live there. Now after going at least once a year for 25 years, I no longer feel the need to live there - it’s gotten so expensive and too crowded.

It sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges. If you lived in Los Angeles, did you move back and live in New York City? Or some obscure rural part of New Jersey? NYC is far more expensive, in every way from cost of living to housing and even more densely populated.

I think people have are tired of the cost of living in states like California, including long commutes, congestion, high taxes, and the rat race. I hear so many saying they just want a nice single family home with a yard and garage now after chasing the big city life. People now want to settle down, and as usual, the suburbs is the preferred place and low cost states.

Those type of people R205 are called OLDS.

I bet none of them are 20 or 30. Sounds like a bunch of frumpy Fraus. The Suburbs are horrible no matter what state you live in.

[quote]The most insular, backward, and—frankly— stupid people I’ve ever met were from California.

Well, since you're in charge of defining reality and facts for the rest of the country, based on your own anecdotal experiences - I guess we all have no choice but to accept that your beliefs are, without any further debate, the subjective truth.

Never mind how insular you sound yourself, refusing to consider any other possibilities or input.

Census: Millennials are fleeing big cities for the suburbs

R206, you should educate yourself with data and facts, dude.

American suburbs are booming.

Millennials are leaving the cities behind and flocking to the land of white picket fences and green lawns - all in search of more affordable housing, reported Valerie Bauerlein for The Wall Street Journal. They're following in baby boomers' footsteps, albeit belatedly - and on their own terms.

Millennials are being more selective, seeking suburbs with good weather and good jobs, typically in the Sunbelt, William Frey, demographer at the Brookings Institution, told Bauerlein. As a result, these suburbs are growing at a rate that's more than twice as fast as their neighboring cities, he said. In some areas, like Apex, North Carolina, the trend is creating an overcrowding problem, resulting in traffic jams and schools filled past capacity.

Wall Street Journal: American Suburbs Swell Again as a New Generation Escapes the City Rising urban housing costs have sped an exodus of residents, causing strains in ‘Millennial Mayberry’

Yes, we have seen that article before R208. It's boring straight people doing that. Not creative young people. Some in that group are almost 40! And it's not Calif specific, its NYC, Chicago, Boston, Washington DC etc. You really need to READ the shit you post.

[quote]‘Millennial Mayberry’

That proves my point, I have no interest living in Mayberry with Aunt Bee and bunch of Fraus.

Millennials look to suburbs, not cities, for first homes

New York, New York if you can make it there you can make it anywhere... Or just fucking quite whine and move to New Jersey suburbs.

Overall, more than 70% of the total Millennial population does not live in the downtowns, and the vast majority of that is in the suburbs.

A lot of cities are experiencing An Uptick of murders and violent crimes that is scaring a lot of would-be gentrifiers away. Media coverage has also become very negative about big city and California life.

CHARLES SCHWAB MOVING SAN FRANCISCO HQ TO TEXAS

Nov. 25, 2019: The brokerage firm Charles Schwab announced today it would acquire TD Ameritrade in a $26 billion deal and as part of the transaction Schwab will move its headquarters to the Dallas-Forth Worth area.

The integration of the two firms is expected to take between 18 and 36 months, following the transaction’s close. The corporate headquarters of the combined firm will eventually relocate to Schwab’s new campus in Westlake, Texas, which is located in Denton and Tarrant Counties north of the cities of Fort Worth and Dallas.

Both companies have a sizable presence in the area. Any additional real estate decisions will be made over time as part of the integration process.

Schwab was founded in San Francisco and will maintain a presence in the city. However, in my experience, once a company establishes a footprint in a business-friendly location, more jobs gravitate there over time.

The move isn’t surprising considering that Schwab’s founder and chairman, Charles “Chuck” Schwab, has said that “We’re pretty much a national company now. I’m not sure [we’ll stay in San Francisco] … we’ll continue looking at that as a possibility [but] as taxes go … and the costs of doing business here are so much higher than some other place.”

Looks like Wells Fargo will make Charlotte its headquarters

The move to suburbs is logical. Millennials are aging out of their partying 20s and 30s, having kids and settling down. It will be ingesting to see the effect on city housing prices.

I do think the expensive cities will remain so. The jobs are in CA - which is why prices are high. Sure, everyone would like to live more cheaply - but if your job in CA pays $150k and in TX pays $100k, I’d prefer to live in CA. Companies don’t move to help their employees - they move so they can pay them less.

Most millennials never have lived in the big dense cities. The media and cultural elites just focused on the trends of a Minority of elite millennials and tried to make them represent an entire generation.

Millennials are moving to the suburbs because many have school age children now. Most of the pediatric patients that I see have parents in their 30s (prime Millennials). Most of the moms are fraus not that much different mindset than say, Gen-X, well maybe a bit more entitled but that's about it. They move to the suburbs mainly for affordability and public schools, just like everyone else.

[quote]Looks like Wells Fargo will make Charlotte its headquarters

And Bank of America is already there. Those were two huge banks that were once HQed in San Francisco.

Wachovia (Winston-Salem) became Wells Fargo, so it’s a NC bank already

[quote]Most millennials never have lived in the big dense cities. The media and cultural elites just focused on the trends of a Minority of elite millennials and tried to make them represent an entire generation.

Oh, hi!

R225, I would have appreciated a warning.

[quote]CHARLES SCHWAB MOVING SAN FRANCISCO HQ TO TEXAS

Good, wont be missed. Actually it makes perfect sense. If you read beyond the right wing talking points regarding their jealousy of California's economy there are a couple take away most people don't think about. The companies that are moving to Texas (from everywhere I might add) are well established mature industries. They are not innovators. Texas laws mean that if Joe the inventor leaves ATT to start up his own company, he will be shut down due to no compete laws. That's good for a big company, lots of minions at low wages who cant put them out of business even if they try.

In contrast, California is the center of American startups and innovation because they don't have those same stringent non compete laws. This allows anyone with a good idea and the ability to raise cash the chance at the American dream. And this is not my theory, it's known fact. Need proof? Just look at were 90% of rich investors go to look for new ideas. Hint, it's not Texas.

California Job growth is out pacing the rest of America.

Looks like flyoverstan is still the worst place to live in America. As of 2019. For quality of life that is. Not just one thing like tax rate.

good, we have too many dam people here, maybe the rents will go down, and the undesirables will git out of town....

I wonder if housing prices will decrease

[quote]Love your comment. Tyler is my hometown. Alas, Hemet isn't Tyler. Tyler is pretty. Hemet is not. Tyler keeps riffraff out. Hemet is the sex offender capital of CA. Sex offender parolees are dropped off there. No, I'd say Hemet is the Waco or Plano of California.

This week in Hemet.....

South: 2010: 114,555,744 | 2019: 125,580,448