AB5 in CA - anyone being affected?

You "could end up homeless" because the law stipulates that you're an employee and not an independent contractor?

R1, I'm not an uber or lyft driver.

AB5 will make it impossible for companies to employ people as independent contractors; companies have a choice: hire folks full time on staff or don't employ them at all.

Guess which option my employer is taking?

This affects far more than uber and lyft drivers.

I can't

When did/does it go into affect? Was it voted on?

It's actually a good idea for most of the little people like myself. I have worked full time and free-lance for years. They both have different benefits. But the problem with free-lance was that in most cases they wanted me to work in the office at the same time, place, responsibility and rules as the staff. So basically and employee without any benefits and work terminated without notice. They get out of paying the typical tax as well.

To be truly an independent contractor, you are supposed to be more like a consultant who comes and goes at his own will, dose not have a set spot or specific space, is not in there every day of the week 40 hour for six months straight. And has multiple clients he works for. And there lies the problem, too many companies don't want that. They want it both ways. They want you there every day on time with their regular staff non stop until a project is over, fallow all their rules sit down shut up fall in line like the other minions. At that point you are an employee. Except you get screwed out of benefits and have zero job security and zero legal rights as well. "you cant sue us because you are an outside contractor"

R4, that sucks. I don't get employers expecting people to go to an office where they're not on staff with benefits.

OP here; I'm being told by employers who contract me that they can't use me anymore because of AB5....this isn't going to prompt employers to give workers full time staff jobs.

So, barring, a holiday miracle, I'm fucked.

This is why people leave CA. This is why people leave period.

R5: Why is full time employment an impossibility for you?

[quote]I don't get employers expecting people to go to an office where they're not on staff with benefits.

And yet, here you are, grousing about the fact that Democrats stepped up to the plate and did something about it. They didn't change the rules, or add some draconian law to the process; all they did was clarify the rules so that these huge tech giants (and I'm sure it's not limited to tech, but these companies were the catalyst that drove AB5) couldn't get out of paying employment taxes when these "independent contractors" are, in fact and clearly, employees.

The problem is that Uber and Lyft (and a fistful of tech companies) do exploit the independent contractor rules to avoid paying taxes on these employees. I sarcastically asked on what Uber actually did spend that $1B they lost last year, because we know it wasn't on paying drivers, taxes, vehicle maintenance, insurance, infrastructure, or just being a responsible corporate citizen. And they're using AB5 as a cudgel to make you, OP, pissed at our elected representatives for doing the right thing.

The only reason "they can't use me anymore because of AB5" is because they're too cheap to pay employment taxes, OP. Think about that for a moment: a company that has $billions to throw away can't pay your measly employment taxes.

And if "This is why people leave CA", why do we have a housing shortage? Why is California's economy a bright spot in the nation, if not the world? Why, unlike every other state in the country, do we have two entire industries centered in California? What's wrong with this picture?

I am using my Michigan residency vs California residency to become an IC travel consultant.

FUCK CAPITALISM. FUCK IT IN THE ASS TILL IT BLEEDS.

I'm not happy about it either.

R7 is a paid lobbyist for the taxi industry.

No, R11, just a long-time supporter of unions and working people. And someone who thinks that corporations and billionaires should pay their fair share of taxes.

I have a part time job writing for a website. I only make about 5k a year doing it. Will that be stopped?

Most of that is bullshit, even without AB5 if you are being treated like an employee (and there are guidelines to be followed) you simply file a claim with the dept of labor (and California's labor dept is overwhelmingly pro-employee), and the IRS and the company will have to back pay taxes and benefits anyway.

There is an old saying in H/R, there are three sets of labor laws in the USA, Federal, State and California.

The only thing AB5 really did was to make it easier to file claims against companies already violating the law.

The OP complaining about getting let go is no different than someone being terminated because the minimum wage went up. Or because the company had to spend money previously used for wages to pay for fire regulations they overlooked or ignored.

R14, before AB5 I had a job; now, I don't.

This bill is going to be a fucking disaster; companies aren't going to come up with staff jobs.

I don't know what line of work you're in but I hope nobody ever comes up with a bill that takes it away.

this Loretta woman who came up with the bill doesn't give a shit about anybody but herself; I'm sure she got a big donation to pass this bill from some companies;

[quote]OP here; I'm being told by employers who contract me that they can't use me anymore because of AB5

They are lying to you. If they wanted they could hire you full time or even part time. They are using that as an excuse. They basically don't want your services anymore.

[quote]This is why people leave CA. This is why people leave period.

No it's not. More people move into CA than leave. Why do you thing the housing prices are so high? Why do you think their economy is booming? Not to mention is one of the most beautiful states in the country?

The only people who say people are leaving are jealous Deplorables and Repugs that hate the fact that a progressive state is doing better than their shit hole. Sure, you could move to Texas and buy a house at half the price, and low taxes but your income will be a lot less too and who the fuck wants to live there? There is a reason the houses are half price!

Yes, R17, it’s true. The rest of us can see your California Über Alles propaganda for the propaganda it really is.

The sixth largest economy can’t even give power to all its citizens, clean garbage off its streets, nor provide roads that aren’t cracked and crumbled.

Then move, R19. You won't be missed.

They're leaving the Bay Area because average people can't afford to live there. If they aren't yet, they will need to start busing poor people in and out who work in the service industries' have nots to cater to the haves.

R9, Dane, some of us have done quite well under capitalism. I grew up lower middle class and worked hard (60+ hours per week) for 35 years. I took tremendous risks, and it was bumpy at time, but it all paid off. Now I'm reaping the financial rewards. If I can do it, so can most other people.

AB5 is a huge problem for freelance journalists – under the law, California freelance writers can maintain their status as independent contractors only if they submit no more than 35 pieces per year.

New York-based Vox Media said Monday it would end contracts with hundreds of freelance writers and editors in California who covered sports for the blog network SB Nation as the company came into compliance with the law, which could have forced it to reclassify some of these contractors as employees.

Freelance jobs at Vox and other media outlets are now being farmed out to non-California writers.

The state just declared war on the private sector.

R21 The divide in many of our cities reminds me of my time in India in the late 90s. There is no young middle class.

OP, yes I’m affected. I was let go. I am being terminated tomorrow actually. I have an MA and I’m a librarian at a law firm and that salary has me living paycheck to paycheck. My job working as an Independent contractor for a tech firm (the client is one of the tech giants) finally allowed me to start a savings account and have a few extras. I’ve tried getting a part time retail job even though the pay would be much less - My IC job paid $15.50 an hour. No luck so far and the process has been rather humiliating. I’ve been interviewed on the sidewalk while shoppers bumped into us. Sigh. I’ve also tried getting a better full time job but cannot find anything that pays significantly better.

The only way to build a life would be to find a husband and pool our resources but a) I have not met that person and b) it’s adds a layer of need to the relationship that I don’t think is healthy.

R25 $15.50 an hour allows you to save and have a "few extras?" That's almost minimum wage, how are you able to do that?

This is from NBC, not some fringe blogger I have never heard of:

Here in Sept 11 article vox is praising this bill

Gig workers’ win in California is a victory for workers everywhere

Vox is a pro-tr*nscult rag for douchebags. Their opinion matters regarding nothing.

Now days ago same Vox lays off hundreds of people due to same bill ABS

Vox Media to cut hundreds of freelance jobs ahead of changes in California gig economy laws

R7, So workers won't be exploited, they'll just get fired. Way to go.

R7, So workers won't be exploited, they'll just get fired. Way to go.

R26 It was a second job. I have a full time job which just covers rent, car, bills and living expenses with little left. The second job might have “only” been $15.50 but it was an online job so I had no expenses and could bank all of the money. An extra 12,000 per year after tax which was a godsend.

California wasn't this mismanaged when the Mansons were out running around killing people.

But what about Uber and Lyft? What will they be doing with all their drivers? And if they hire them full time, giving them benefits, there goes the appeal of being an Uber and Lyft driver, of being able to set your own hours. In fact, how are they not independent contractors? They choose when they want to work, and they are not working in an office or someplace they have to be every day.

Good going, California. You wouldn't vote for Gary Coleman for governor, and now he's dead, but you will gladly vote for people to pass ill-considered legislation that will only put more people out of work and drive them out of the state. Do you want California to become unaffordable to all but the 1% and their de-facto slaves? At the current trajectory, that's where you're headed.

Sorry, OP, but this is what corporations do every time the the government passes good legislation. The create pain to, hopefully, make the good legislation go away. Corporations should never have been allowed to pull the Independent Contractor scam just like Walmart should not be able to get away with Medicare fraud. This is why your vote in the next election counts.

Any kind of work other than independent contracting is slavery, R37.

R38, so having a stable life, knowing that you have a job, health benefits, 401k, etc. is slavery? Sorry, I have been on both sides. There are so many penalties to be an independent contractor. Taxes are more difficult. Healthcare more expensive.

Being told when you have to show up is slavery. Not being able to call your own shots is slavery. Not being able to choose your own hours is slavery. Having to pay taxes is slavery. Being forced to tolerate your oppressors or be fired is slavery. It is not the opponents of this bill who are pushing us further and further into slavery. You are lying, R39, if you say you have been on both sides and you say you would rather be a slave to some tyrant than work for yourself.

Hey OP , Lorena Gonzalez who is author of this bill has responded to your concern

KQED is nothing but a right-wing rag! How dare these corporate stooges attack the public sector! Don't they realize that big government is good government no matter what?

R41: That's right up there with "let them eat cake."

Even Marie Antoinette let us eat cake and you won't even let us have that!

R43, And Lorena is doubling down on htis

Now she sounds like the bully who stole your lunch money in school.

Throw her out of office. She should be in prison, not the state legislature.

Right. She has a point in that ideally every worker would a living wage, healthcare, protections etc. BUT in 2019 that ship has long sailed and those jobs are a necessity for many and they keep people people above the breadline who would otherwise be in trouble. IC jobs allow stay at home mothers, caregivers, students, recent graduates, low wage workers a chance to have a second income stream and that allows them flexibility and some control of when and how they work. Most of my coworkers in my IC job are educated and have stead full time gigs - the problem is they pay poorly. Others are either caregiving in the home or in education and those jobs allow them to care for elders/children or further their education without falling into deep debt and poverty.

This is coming on top of one tax increase after another.

Get rid of AB5 or we will dismantle the state of California altogether and the land will be evenly divided between Oregon and Nevada, while the 50th star on the flag will go to Puerto Rico.

Government overreach.

Government overreach.

This is from the state's own internal study. Everyone who is saying that the state is in serious trouble is telling the truth, but it's hard to keep the facts consistent when there is so much acrimony from people who won't even admit the state has a problem. Even the state itself admits it. Even my avowedly liberal aunt believes they've gone too far. That speaks volumes. Every solution to that problem that has been suggested has been tried already and failed and will fail again. This is the literal definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different and better result each time. It doesn't work that way.

Oh, come on, R25. If you're doing work for $15.50 an hour, you're an hourly employee. Obviously not an independent contractor. You are not an independent contractor who is paid an agreed upon fee to deliver agreed upon work.

So you are not losing a job as an independent contractor, as you were not one to begin with. Your $15.50 an hour isn't even really $15.50 an hour because you are stuck paying the Self Employment Tax, which is roughly the amount your employer saved by screwing you. You are covering your employer's FICA responsibilities for them out of your own pocket.

If you adjust that $15.50 an hour to account for the Self Employment Tax, you could do equally well at your local McDonald's. You have a Master's Degree. Now get some self-respect.

Anyone who defends AB5 is a mafia shill.

You were warned for years and years and years by people who were there, and you didn't listen. You accused everyone who pointed this out of being a bigot and a corporate shill. Now we are all paying the price for this stubbornness and delusionality.

Sixth largest economy? How much of it is of chain restaurants and stores that have pushed locally owned ones out? They benefit the most from these rules and regulations because they're the only ones who can afford to do business under them.

More anti-California propaganda from that right-wing noise machine known as PBS:

This was more than half a decade ago.

R35, I know that makes intuitive sense and tracks the common understanding of what an IC is vs an employee, but CA is always an outlier on employment matters. Usually pro-worker (protections that most states don't have) but I guess they decided that they want to focus protection/efforts on getting more employees on the rolls than on beefing up protections for gig workers. It seems about 100 years behind the times, but I guess they think it will shake out well. So stupid, bc all of this is tax code- driven

California has been getting away with this kind of special pleading for way too long, and it's got to stop.

R40, perhaps extending worker- positive benefits to ICs would be preferable to trying to force companies to make everyone an employee.

That would have been the more logical thing to do, and it's not as though no one suggested an alternative that both protects IC status and extends benefits to it, but no, once again they had to pull rank and make it all or nothing like a typical tyrant.

I think it's very unfair to blame the people doing IC work. Someone above told the guy working for $15.50 an hour to get some self respect. I think he has plenty. He is busting his ass to save for his future and not be a burden. He's not using a partner as an ATM, he's not moaning and wallowing in self pity, he's working likely 60+ hours a week. If he won't do the job, Apple, Facebook, Google will not make thise workers in house employees and pay them $25+ an hour, they will just hire foreign workers and get away with paying even less. Indian ICs get $3.50 an hour from Apple. I find it frustrating that those who point the finger at the workers never offer any guidance or help. They never even say what industry they are in which might be useful. Instead, the insinuation is that the worker is a lazy, unmotivated bum who should pull himself up by the bootstraps. I'm a teacher and I have always needed a second job, sometimes even a third job if an unexpected expense comes up. As a single man I will never qualify for a mortgage unless I move to the midwest. The only friends I have who are doing well had parents who helped them out financially or with connections. The rest of us (32-35 age group) are all college educated and struggling and most people have at least toyed with IC positions over the years. A few guys were able to pull in as much driving for Uber, Lyft and Wingz as they got from their primary jobs. A female friend got in on a good project with Apple and saved 30,000 in 2 years and became debt free. My second job has kept me out of credit card debt.

I couldn't even live in CA without freelance work.

Legitimate independent contractor work exists, R64. But so does a great deal of abusive employment relationships which unethical employers label 'independent contracting.'

The rules on this are not set by California, no matter how many lobbyists invade DL and bitch about AB5. They are Federal rules.

Don't enable unethical employers to skirt the law by agreeing to participate in their illegal employment fraud. It only exacerbates their disrespect for the law and increases the marginalization of people working for a living.

R66 is projecting again. It's those trying to shoehorn everything into 9-to-5 de facto slavery who are the problem. I wish so-called "lobbyists" (just another scare word to frighten the ignorant into conformity) would pay me to tell the truth about these meddling bureaucrats.

R66 is right that some companies (looking at you tech giants) do use the term IC very liberally to avoid offering a decent salary and benefits. Very shameful when the founders and CEOs are some of the richest people in the world. However, it is important not to blame the workers who are using these jobs to supplement shitty wages being offered for what were once solid middle class jobs that could support a income family with a few kids. Other workers chose to do this work because it allows them to do home and avoid the cost of childcare and eldercare which are now so high they can wipe out one partners wages entirely. Boycotting those jobs would change nothing. They will just hire foreign workers. Extending benefits to ICs is the only solution.

R67: Shut the hell up you right wing troll. You don't care about workers or making a decent living. You're just here to bash California and puke right wing talking points about "bureaucrats", whatever the hell that means. So transparent.

As far as I’m concerned, all work should be IC work. No exceptions. The word “boss” should be banned from the English language along with everything that it entails. This bill is making us slaves to a master who should’ve been overthrown decades ago.

This suggests, then, that contractors will form their own companies and market their services to companies under a uniform contract instead of 1099s.

As your own company, you can then choose whether employees are full or part time, and provide benefits in accordance with state law. Those costs are embedded in your pricing model to the company you contract with.

R7, what they're doing about it is costing me a livelihood.

I didn't need them to step up...I was fine without them doing that. Now? not so much.

R41, Yeah, I'm reading this and she used the word 'fuicking' in one of her responses, too.

I guess I can call her office and say fucking too.

I'm so fucking pissed.

Anyone who thinks this is a great idea can just send me their fucking money until the companies I work for give me fucking full time jobs.

R73: You're in California. Do porn.

R74, that's not a bad idea. I've got a huge penis.

Then I can turn the whole story into a fucking screenplay or a fucking TV series for Amazon Prime or Netflix.

Fucking great idea.

And then you’ll turn it into shit and create a last episode so bad it will retroactively make fans hate everything that came before it.

Anyone who voted for this needs to be forcibly removed from office without an election. Anyone who voted for this needs to be put in jail for the rest of their unnatural lives. These calculated attacks on the private sector have got to stop.

[quote]Sorry, I have been on both sides. There are so many penalties to be an independent contractor. Taxes are more difficult. Healthcare more expensive.

I make three times as much as a freelancer than I ever did working for anyone, so I can afford the extra healthcare dollars. And TurboTax makes it easy to do my own taxes.

If my state passed a similar law, I'd be pissed as hell. I think any number of clients would be happy to hire me on staff but I'd hate to go back to corporate life.

R16, you have no fucking inside knowledge on the finances of the company that says they can't bring me on full time or part time on staff.

"They don't want you"

Fuck you. They wanted me before AB5; if AB5 didn't exist I wouldn't be in this position.

Merry fucking Christmas to you too.

Tell you what? You give up YOUR job and then talk about how easy this all is for people.

Gays voted for this

[quote] Gays voted for this

Not this one. I actually went to Sacramento along with other gig workers to talk to lawmakers. They said they would be sympathetic to our concerns. They lied. This law needs to go and be replaced with absolutely nothing. There are too many laws on the books already, and the cost of enforcing them gets passed on to the rest of us at every turn. You cannot keep ripping people off this way and expect them to just lie down and take it. You have tried to defend your actions by saying that they are for the common good, but bad shit still keeps happening. Stuff you thought you could prevent just with another tax, law, or regulation. For a state so obsessed with the environment, you have done a terrible job keeping it clean.

Did Republicans do this? I guess I don't understand.

All of this is causation, not correlation.

R82: No, Democrats did this to stop abuse of contractors and temps. And now we have a right wing troll OP and a bunch of other right wing trolls crying about it. We've got some retard screaming about work being slavery if you're not a contractor and another pig crying about "private sector attacks". This thread was fake from the word go. If OP was for real, he'd be pounding the pavement and getting his resume out there, not bitching on here with his sob story.

Does this also affect the entertainment industry? Everyone on the set is a contractor, no? Or did they do a carve out for this kind of situation?

R84, right because nobody goes on the internet to bitch about things and because CHristmas is the fucking perfect time to get hired.

It's not a fucking fake thread; it's real. My job and income loss are real.

Maybe saying it's fake makes you and others sleep easier. But it's real. It's real. It's real.

[quote] Does this also affect the entertainment industry? Everyone on the set is a contractor, no? Or did they do a carve out for this kind of situation?

I’m sure they’ll get a waiver for that sector, since they always get all the breaks even though they deserve it the least. Law enforcement has become nothing more than a private security force of the mainstream media and other guardians of conformity.

And out come the mental health slurs right out of Joe Stalin’s playbook.

You will not silence us by denouncing us as “right wing”. You will not intimidate us into submission. You will not get away with the private Gus of our livelihood and condescendingly telling us it’s for our own good the way you do every single time. This is a power grab by mafia-backed unions and their complicit toadies in Sacramento, plain and fucking simple. They claim to be champions of the poor, so they do everything in their power to grab as much power for themselves and keep as many people poor as they see fit.

Depriving us

[quote]I am using my Michigan residency vs California residency

You legally cannot have residency in two states at one time. To be considered a California resident, you must live in the state nine months out of the year.

Or break the law claiming you do.

Yashar Ali thread on the "devastation" AB5 will cause freelance reporters -- and CA assemblywoman Lorena Gonzalez' disregard for their plight.

I've never voted for a Republican in my life but I think this is very misguided and will hurt the people they are tying to help. It will also affect me and many of my friends. I have no idea what 'get your resume on there' even means. I assume some of you think ICs are lazy, unmotivated and won't get a 'real' job. Sigh. The guy earlier who said the system works is at least 60 as he has a 35 year work history. That is not how it works now. I've got a Masters in Education and I've worked my than one job since I graduated. I am not lazy or unmotivated but my primary job simply does not provide the same salary and benefits that it did 20 years ago and I must supplement my income as a single man because rents are outrageous.

R76, Duh.

I watch TV.

I fought and got the IRS to force a former employer to classify myself and others as workers because she illegally classified us as Independent Contractors, when we didn’t fit any of the criteria. But this law seems to go too far. Simply make it easier for workers to get the government to issue a classification, based on IRS rules, but don’t seemingly outlaw Independent Contractors.

Do not comment any further without reading the underlying link. We have had enough to date meddling in our income. Working as an independent contractor, I get more leeway than I would ever get with a typical 9-to-5 job. If there is an emergency, I can pause or stop until later if I need to. And yes, my job offers benefits. I will not be a slave to some well-connected bully and be threatened with homelessness and starvation if I refuse to comply. In fact, I am more than willing to make these kind of laws illegal. If you want another legal solution, you got it. Any attempts to limit the amount of work you can do in the private sector are hereby forbidden.

OK, I see the argument now. We'd rather workers get $15.50 an hour, and then pay the employers' portion of employment taxes (on top of the taxes they already pay), their own health insurance, and when they get sick and need a few days off to recuperate, take them without pay... meaning that an IC is really making somewhere between nothing and $5 an hour... than have them perform work as an employee with all of the pay and benefits that entails. Got it.

It's pretty clear from this thread that few people understand the law surrounding independent contracting, and even less understand why AB5 was proposed and passed. This is an age-old conundrum: pit people who need to work and employers who want to get out of their responsibilities to their workers (but still attain all the benefits of having workers) against the people charged with oversight and regulation. Of course these employers are going to blame the government for forcing them to comply with the law, and they're going to take it out on these workers in order to exert pressure on the legislators who have done their job. What amusing is seeing people defend Google, Facebook and Apple (not coincidentally, three of the largest and most profitable companies in the world) as though it's going to even make it a note in their annual report, let alone onto a seperate line of expenses on their balance sheets.

Here's the bottom line: if you have a better idea, contact your state representative and request a meeting to propose it. If not that, write them a letter or give them a call. If you don't think that works, why do you think Loretta Sanchez took up this issue?

R5 maybe, one solution is to get new lawmakers in Sacramento that see things differently.

I went to Sacramento myself to protest and our demands fell on deaf ears. They are unfit to govern and need to be removed from office.

It is pathetic to watch slaves defend their government masters this way. This same state government that is going to put a lot of people out of a job is the same state government that is slowly but surely erasing the next generation of gay people through physical and chemical mutilation and making it illegal to object to it.

R96 Nobody is actually defending those companies in this thread that I can see. People did give reasons why people work for them and why having those jobs as a second source of income keeps people's heads above water in an expensive State and at a time when many jobs are not paying salaries that allow people to live comfortably in CA. I do not personally do that kind of work, although a friend of mine did for a few years, but I am a member of a freelancer's forum and have seen some good ideas there from people who do that kind of work. One guy there also claims to have been invited to offer his ideas to no avail. I think people are being deliberately obtuse if they claim that work from home freelance jobs are the same as a fast food job. The advantages of having another job that can be done in the evenings from your own home with no commute and no set schedule should be obvious. Now, whether those workers should have better protections is another story but it doesn't help the conversation when people refuse to see why people are willingly doing these jobs and why the extra money is a lifeline for so many families (because it is a second job for the vast majority, they are not working for $0-5).

R96, and when companies don't come up with full time jobs, what do you suggest then?

I’ve found dozens of threads online with ICs discussing this before it passed I cannot find one poster who wanted this to happen. I have seen a few thing since that ICs as a whole do want but of course they didn’t get them.

We made suggestions on how to improve the bill, but they ignored them all.

Surprise, surprise. Ban the anti-trans lunatic and it's also the "employment is slavery" troll. Also, it was the right wing troll who starts screaming about Stalin. Good fucking riddance.

R86: Why is full-time employment such a difficult thing for you? I have yet to see whey you MUST be a contractor. I used to be a temp too. I got laid off, let go, whatever as well. It sucks but you are not the first to have this happen and you won't be the last. Like me, you will survive.

R90 hey Matlock; what if you split six months in two different states?

Where do you live then?

R104, you really don't get it, do you?

I'd already reached out to the companies I've freelanced for asking for a full time gig. I'll take mid 5 figures, a 401K that the company matches, 4 weeks vacation and a holiday party. Oh, and I'd like to work remotely too at moment's notice as I'm dealing with parental care-taking issues.

Guess what? They've all said they have nothing right now and now they're saying we have to stop working with uou because of AB5.

Whether they can afford to come up with jobs or not, I don't know. I just know that they're not and Lorena's bill isn't going to force anyone to do anything. People take the path of least resistance and the companies are just going to find a way to do without workers in CA.

Uber and Lfyt might spend millions and millions to get this overturned; they'd rather do that than hire folks full time.

Don't know how old you are, but not a kid here anymore...plus, I'm a white guy; we're the fucking devil right now b/c everything is diversity, diversity diversity.

It's take me a long time to get to where I am. and it's become illegal.

I'm too old to start over and too young -- and too poor -- to retire.

I have been hearing people are leaving California for at least the last 20 years. Funny how the population has grown like crazy since then. It's a stupid myth Repugs, and jealous bitches love to repeat in blogs and opinion articles, but it's just not factually true. More companies start up in Calif than leave, but of course they leave out that little fact.

The truth is, the majority of people that leave are Deplroables, so no surprise they blame California for their failed lot in life. Happy to see them go.

FACT - More people fleeing New Jersey than any other state!

[quote]There are too many laws on the books already, and the cost of enforcing them gets passed on to the rest of us at every turn.

Translation = Republican in sheep's clothing

[quote] Oh, and I'd like to work remotely too at moment's notice as I'm dealing with parental care-taking issues.

R106: This is what is killing any prospect for you. Most companies are not going to go for that.

[quote] plus, I'm a white guy; we're the fucking devil right now b/c everything is diversity, diversity diversity.

Ethno-racial minorities and women are now on an even playing field for being hired. If you have the qualifications, you'll be hired. If you don't, you won't.

Though I find it interesting that you STILL won't tell us what industry you work in. Nor do I understand that since the bastard companies you contracted for won't hire you why you can't apply at other positions and companies in your industry.

r35, Uber has declined to convert anyone to any employee. They have said they are a technology company and drivers are independent contractors who drive when they want and are just using their App. They have stopped tracking acceptance rates and have let drivers see destinations so we can pick and choose our rides as our own bosses. They are double downing on Independent contractors working for them and will just wait to be sued. They are ignoring AB5. Lyft has not made any changes to view drivers as employees either but they haven't come out as Uber did and say the law doesn't effect them.

r84, I'm a Democrat and Independent Contractor and I was never for this.

R109 = mafia thug trying to astroturf and make it look like the support for this fascist bill is grassroots. It isn’t. It’s a desperate power play by a dying industry to prop itself artificially with the use of force.

Los Angeles is getting hit pretty hard.

We're out of Lemon Pledge.

[quote]The only reason "they can't use me anymore because of AB5" is because they're too cheap to pay employment taxes, OP.

They also don't want to pay benefits, sick time, holiday pay, vacation time, Workers Comp insurance in case you're injured on the job, etc.

[quote]Nor do I understand that since the bastard companies you contracted for won't hire you why you can't apply at other positions and companies in your industry.

Probably because the other employers are doing the same thing and not hiring full-time.

R117: Absolutely no one, NO ONE, in OP's industry is hiring. No one, no where, for any position, all because of one law? Interesting.

Did I say that, r118? However, in my field, that's how most of the agencies run game. It's rare to have full-time positions in some fields if your job was previously a privately contracted one.

[quote]I'll take mid 5 figures, a 401K that the company matches, 4 weeks vacation and a holiday party.

This isn't 1985 or Europe. Good luck.

[quote] Democrats did this to stop abuse of contractors and temps.

So now they're out of jobs and no longer "abused". Wonderful result.

R110, that's right. you don't fucking understand.

You think if I'm qualified I'll get hired? No. People are hiring minorities - they're not hiring older white guys. And most aren't hiring at all.

People are choosing the path of least resistance; nobody wants to be told what to do so they're not going to be forced to hire someone.

I'm good at what I do. I'd tell you the field, but you or others will just attack me and say it's a loser field; get out. (Don't worry. I am.)

Go read Lorena Sanchez' twitter feed on this; she got really heated and used the word 'fucking' attacking one of her critics. People are saying she knows she fucked up and it's getting to her.

She's fucked this whole thing up for tons of people and she won't admit it.

Yeah, I'll just 'go get another job'

I had no problem being an IC so I could do some parental care-taking. My choice. But maybe when I get that staff job I'll just go on the family leave act. Rather than actually work remotely.

R118, I check in with clients regularly to see if they're hiring (and what their telecommuting policy is) and NOBODY IS HIRING.

Judith Freaking Crist.

R85, the entertainment industry is heavily unionized. Jobs may be of short or limited duration, but those workers are union employSees. Not independent contractors.

An independent contractor is the architect you hire to redesign your kitchen. S/he meets with you, discusses the job, then goes away and does the work without supervision in his or her own work space. At some point, the work is delivered. An independent contractor does not work assigned hours at an assigned location under the supervision of a company manager, though many companies do try to cash in by abusing people in this way. R96 has it right.

trying to force these companies to hire people is not going to work.

and when people lose their jobs and their livelihoods Lorena Bobbit sorry not sorry Sanchez will still have hers

I wonder if she took money to push this bill through?

R123: This is the correct and only take.

Realtors are considered independent contractors, so how does this affect them?

we can take all the meetings we want and there will be fix it bills and follow up sessions and such and maybe this will get fixed and may be it won't

even if it is, clients and employers will have moved on, replacing us.

What then?

part of me wants to just leave a note blaming AB5 and walk out into traffic.

Ironical if I'd be hit by an Uber or Lyft driver.

R127 et al aren't believeable because 1. They are being far too dramatic; and 2. They refuse to provide specifics about their situation. Lack of disclosure and lack of balance mean people have the right not to trust what you say.

Bills like AB5 are proposed because we need to stop slavery. Employers are too beholden to slavery to make money. People need dignified work. Employers won't stop hiring forever if they are required to hire people as employees.

Moreover, these rules about what is a contractor vs employee have existed forever. It is these new tech companies who have decided to use the newness and consequent opacity of their tech-business models, as a cloak for what is essentially illegal activity; activity that has long been against employment regulations. Why do you feel you deserve an exemption from these laws, thereby creating a race to the bottom for all employees?

R128, I could give a shit whether you trust what I say.

Fine. I'm a truck driver. I can't do more than 35 gigs a year.

What do you suggest I do for a job?

And make it fast, Jan. 1 is coming.

“The rules ... have existed forever.”

So that makes it okay to keep using force to enforce them?

[quote] People need dignified work.

Ah yes. I’ve heard that one when people were telling factory workers, miners and domestic staff that they were better off without jobs and should just up their families and move to SF/NY/LA. Funny enough the same people also think SF/NY/LA are overpriced, overcrowded and they’d shit themselves if a few million D. Plorables arrived on with their new community college degrees.

Statements like that are offensive, shortsighted and don’t help the situation. Anybody who thinks companies are going to start offering ICs full time positions is living in a fantasy. They will just source workers from cheaper markets at home or abroad. A friend who has a start up uses virtual assistants that he found on an online platform and they are available to him 24/7 for a few dollars an hour. He used foreign gig workers to design his website and logo, data entry, translations, manage social media accounts and do customer service. One of the companies who let CA workers go last week has already replaced them by giving European workers their jobs and extra hours. Those workers are posting “best Christmas ever” memes. Another company who let freelance writers in CA go has sent out an English-US comprehension test to writers in other markets.

Heavy handed Bills like this will just push more jobs overseas and punish the people who are most vulnerable in society.

You're next, NYC!

if you follow lorena sanchez on twitter you can see how devastating this is to workers in CA

she's now backtracking asking 'well, what is we did this?' or 'what if we amended the bill by doing this?'

jesuseffingchrist why the FUCK didn't she ask these questions BEFORE ??

Do you really think that these slave-owning corporations will dump all their contract employees en masse, and never hire anybody back? That's ridiculous. Their productivity would crater.

Is Vox based in CA?

[quote]People need dignified work.

People also need to pay their bills, which they will choose over their dignity.

R134 Yes. There are thousands of people all around the world applying for those jobs every day. They won’t be too concerned about losing a few States.

Doesn't it go by where the business is located and not where the worker lives?

apparently, not, R138.

I live in LA and a NY company has already told me we have a problem.

crew members work as independent contractors even though they are unionized.

R139 Right. CA workers working for an Apple contractor with Sydney headquarters have been dumped.

so even an international company is being affected by this R141?

you can't get around it, can you?

R141, could you show us some actual headlines from reputable sources that explain what's going on?

TIA!

I’m on the flip side of AB 5 - my company relies heavily on freelancers, and one of the ones I hire most often lives in California. We’ve been told that we can’t send her any more work until she forms an LLC and provides proof of marketing, multiple clients etc.

In the short term, my job will be made much more difficult, but I hope she can jump through the bureaucratic hoops quickly.

Incidentally, I support AB5, mainly because I despise Uber and want it to fail.

R144, so if your freelance loses her money, her livelihood you'll be okay b/c you hate uber and want it to fail.

Check.

We hate slave-drivers and corporations that undermine protections for workers, R145 and others. Yes, I want such companies to fail, because they only succeed by robbing workers.

R54

I had to block that stupid cunt for being such a demeaning twat.

People living in rural areas of California would find an extra $300 a week in online freelance income very important, since it might make up 20% of income.

R62

Assume I offered you a contract where are you were paid ten dollars an hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but you had to be on call at all times.

Housing, food, and transportation would be provided, and you would be allowed 7 hrs of “free time” chauffeured trips within a 1hr radius, with approval.

At the end of the year you would have nearly 100K in the bank, since you would have negligible expenses.

One year as an assistant to a powerful person...wouldn’t it be worth it?

OP

I’m really touched by your dilemma.

I wish there was a better way to communicate.

DL hates any cash transfers

Are you on Twitter?

R121

😂😂😂

One bad regulation creates another bad regulation that results in an even worse regulation that ends up being abused so horribly that the backlash makes things worse.

My heart is breaking for OP.

I’m sure as hell not giving my contact information, and encryption isn’t and option either. I’d like to help him.

R144

Jumping through those bureaucratic hoops will cost her thousands of dollars and months of stupid red tape.

You’re a fucking idiot if you support this law.

If this fucks up her life, your stupidity will be partially to blame since you supported this stupid fucking law.

The population of California has stagnated, as data released today show.

Lots of immigrants, but just as many native born Californians moving out of state.

The massive bureaucracy has become too burdensome for small businesses, and therefore a brain drain is underway. Entrepreneurs are looking at Dallas, not Oakland.

Are undocumented immigrants in California exempt from this law?

R149, aka Christmas spirit , thanks but this is only scratching the surface. I'm dealing with parental caretaking, a lack of family support, best friend committed suicide...I'm too young and too poor to retire, and too old to start over.

Money would help; a lot. but I'm not really comfortable giving out my twitter handle on DL here.

But your kindness is not going unnoticed.

I do know everyone has problems and I know others who are worse off.

It's taken me years to rebound from work challenges; but this one? I can't fight it.

This is going to be a disaster for journalists (or writers or content creators or whatever). Supposedly the bill will limit you to 35 submissions to one company in a year. After that, they'll have to hire you as an employee.

Guess what? They won't hire you as an employee. They'll just farm the work out to cheaper, younger people; overseas content mills; or move more quickly toward using AI.

So those of us who actually are lucky enough to have and maintain regular freelance gigs — the only option in a decimated industry — are going to get fucked by the government after we've been fucked by the market.

OP

Set up a burner email account. I’ll email you my info so you can make sure I’m legit and then go from there.

This is why he won.

Lorena Gonzalez is a nasty piece of work and according to the tweets in R91 she's planning to run for CA Sec of State as well.

Her husband also sounds like an ass.

R156, I'm really touched, but I'm scared to death of making a connection through the DL and being outed in this thread.

Could I use the help? Sure.

But instead, may I ask you to find an elderly neighbor who has no one this holiday season and then do something nice for them.

Or a parent-less kid who's going through hell.

As for me, well, as Alan Spaulding told Alan-Michael after Phillip kicked him out of the company: "I'll survive. We'll all survive."

R157, And I agree with you. you're correct. Quite correct, in fact.

This thread has been enlightening. As someone who believes in government intervention to put the brakes on hypercapitalism’s destructive dehumanizing spiral towards economic inequality, it make me appreciate the unintended consequences.

I think CA needs to lead the way - along with NYC - in creating progressive policy. While there will be missteps, in general they have created much more progressive and humane societies than Alabama and Arkanasas. For example, health care for all - regardless of the Federal attempts to kill it nationally. Housing and education support. Abortion laws. Gay rights.

It’s easy to bash it - and it needs to be refined and corrected. But let’s stop playing into the simplistic Fox narrative that “liberals adopt stupid policies”. Because the alternative is untaxed, unregulated, unfettered hypercapitalism that will further crush everyone but the 1%.

Nearly 2/3 of all the posts in this thread are by 2 people whose writing style is so similar I'm going to venture that it is one person.

This person has not shown us any receipts about AB5, such as reputable news analysis of the issues. This person keeps making "burn the house down" type statements about the need to destroy government institutions. This person also keeps repetitively making comments to the effect that the only acceptable alternative to AB5 is the status quo. The status quo is that people who work as independent contractors are typically underpaid and have no workplace protections, which undermines all workers.

The poster is too dense to understand that AB5 is only reifying laws that are already on the books that define who is an employee vs an independent contractor. But the strangest thing is how the poster or two keep hammering the same points over and over again, literally dozens of times; and this message is anarchy and slavery.

R162, the bottom line for me is that I had a job and income before AB5 and won't after it unless something changes.

Many people are going to have to go on welfare if they can't find work once AB5 goes into effect.

I'm not a 'slave' to places I work for; they are all my clients. and I make enough to live.

Penalizing companies for not putting us on staff is going to make companies walk away and find other people to work for them.

Even Lorena herself is backtracking on twitter. It'll be too late for most of us.

Do any AB5 supporters have advice on how to pay the bills until companies come up with the money and decide to hire IC's ?

[quote]It is pathetic to watch slaves defend their government masters this way. This same state government that is going to put a lot of people out of a job is the same state government that is slowly but surely erasing the next generation of gay people through physical and chemical mutilation and making it illegal to object to it.

Matt, get help. You need it. Badly.

As for AB5, we see this kind of scare talk anytime something passes that benefits workers and penalizes corporations trying to skirt the law. This makes it easier for workers to fight back; it does not prevent companies from hiring contractors. In fact, both Uber and Lyft insist that their drivers pass the test to be identified as contractors.

The test for determining whether someone is a contractor was already set by the California Supreme Court in 2018. This just codifies that ruling into law and puts the burden of proof on employers rather than employees.

[quote]I had to block that stupid cunt

At least they weren't so damn stupid they pretended that Trump hasn't been impeached, R147.

Oh, I should have known ... it's the Idiot Libertarian Troll. It figures.

The legislators who write the bills and the Governor who signs them have no idea what the true intent nor affect will be. It's truly unfortunate as they go on to the next thing they are going to destroy and leave it up to you to figure out or fight for a positive result.

People, please just don't accept things that you don't like. Make calls to your councilman, the Governor and even your senators. It's also very telling who was able to buy them out - look at the list of exceptions from AB5.

And, don't get me wrong, I do think there should be classifications but the latest go too for. This is a rush judgment on "gig" work as they don't know how to address. It's really said. Again, make calls and let them hear this isn't the right move.

[quote]Absolutely no one, NO ONE, in OP's industry is hiring. No one, no where, for any position, all because of one law? Interesting.

Wait ... are you saying that an anonymous poster on a bitchy forum might somehow not be telling the whole truth?!

I'm so disillusioned.

wait, you think that one person who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about might not know what the fuck he's talking about?

Oh, no!!!

I"M so disillusioned!

Considering the content of your remarks on this thread, R170 / OP, you might want to look in the mirror before throwing those stones, particularly when they're as incoherent as that R170 post. Your glass house is far too fragile for you to pretend that someone else "doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about."

R171, yeah, I was trying to make a point.

Anyone in favor of AB5 can say opponents of it don't know what they fuck they're talking about and anyone opposed to AB5 can say that supporters of it 'don't know what the fuck they're talking about.'

Don't know you sarcasm when you hear it, Violet?

Let me ask: are YOU affected by AB5?

Are you an IC who is going to lose his/her job (gigs, clients, whatever word you choose to use) once it goes into effect?

And you do know that Lorena is posting on twitter that she needs to learn more about this and is asking for suggestions? AFTER she pushed the bill through.

AFTER. Gee, maybe she should have done this, I don't know, BEFORE????

And by the way Lorena has used the word 'fucking' in her tweets so, the f word is off the table.

Since you manifestly have no idea what you're talking about, R172, as exhibited by your multiple posts on this thread, your inability to support any of your statements, your ignorance of the actual impact of AB5, your drama queen rhetoric about its supposed impact, and so on, your "point" was moot.

there was a time in this country when workers banded together and went on strike. They withheld their labor and their work product until they were treated fairly by their employers.

Here in this thread, we are faced with people willing to accept the minimum undercut one another, and race each other to the bottom.

R173, you haven't answered my question. Are you personally affected by AB5?

Also, yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about. I have received emails from employers saying they won't be able to use my services in 2020.

They will not be hiring me on staff. They have said it's not in their budget -- whether it is or not doesn't matter much if they don't hire me.

It's not supposed impact. It IS impact. Why do you think this isn't true? For me and many others?

AB 5 is affecting me adversely. Is it affecting you?

Funny. We have posters like R156 who are showing compassion and want me to set up a burner account to send me money.

And we have R173, using 'drama queen' and 'ignorance' in his/her post, being an expert on not only AB5 but my specific situation, not giving a shit about me or anyone losing their jobs/gigs/careers/clients and, oh, yeah, livelihoods.

I've said employers are dropping me and have said they will not be hiring me. Why isn't that making an impact? It's sure making one on me.

Even Lorena is looking at adjusting this and is keeping an open mind, R173, as evidenced by her posts.

Merry Fucking Christmas.

[quote] it make me appreciate the unintended consequences

"unintended consequences", what is that?

It's unfortunate that some people will be negatively affected. But protecting workers from abusive situations is paramount. All that work will still need to be done. Companies will eventually realize that. They've been taking advantage of fake 'contractors' a bit more every year. Really, what needs to happen is enactment and enforcement of national rules rather than state rules - most other first world countries operate this way.

OP

You’re a good soul, as evidenced by your post at R159

Wishing you all the luck in 2020.

What R178 said.

[quote]And we have R173, using 'drama queen' and 'ignorance' in his/her post, being an expert on not only AB5 but my specific situation, not giving a shit about me or anyone losing their jobs/gigs/careers/clients and, oh, yeah, livelihoods.

All we have to go on is your posts. We have no idea who you actually are, where you live, or what you do. Your posts here are ignorant and you are, in fact, guilty of ridiculously over-the-top drama queen rhetoric. If you wish to be judged otherwise, then stop posting ignorant, drama queen posts.

[quote]Here in this thread, we are faced with people willing to accept the minimum undercut one another, and race each other to the bottom.

Yup. Rather than point the finger of blame where it belongs, at those who are eager to take advantage of them and are intent on screwing them over, they instead rail against those who are actively working to protect them. It's the "What's the Matter With Kansas" syndrome.

[quote]Not long ago, Kansas would have responded to the current situation by making the bastards pay. This would have been a political certainty, as predictable as what happens when you touch a match to a puddle of gasoline. When business screwed the farmers and the workers – when it implemented monopoly strategies invasive beyond the Populists' furthest imaginings – when it ripped off shareholders and casually tossed thousands out of work – you could be damned sure about what would follow. Not these days. Out here the gravity of discontent pulls in only one direction: to the right, to the right, further to the right. Strip today's Kansans of their job security, and they head out to become registered Republicans. Push them off their land, and next thing you know they're protesting in front of abortion clinics. Squander their life savings on manicures for the CEO, and there's a good chance they'll join the John Birch Society. But ask them about the remedies their ancestors proposed (unions, antitrust, public ownership), and you might as well be referring to the days when knighthood was in flower.

R181, and all we have to go on your posts is...not much. I've told you I'm affected adversely by AB5 and I've asked you if you are more than once but you haven't been forthcoming so, you know more about me than I know about you.

You write really well and you use some words in a way that make you sound smart and superior. (Manifest! Ignorant! Drama queen!) You use a lot of commas, but you do it effectively, getting all your points across.

Guess what? People losing their livelihoods are going to act like drama queens. You're making it sound as if people have no right to their feelings. We do.

I'm going to take it that you're [bold] NOT [/bold] affected by AB5. If you were, you'd say so.

I hope all the people affected adversely by AB5 can hang in there.

Lorena Gonzalez [italic] herself [/italic] has tweeted: "Worker misclassification hurts everyone. We will continue to clarify this law, ..." So, even she, who came up with this bill doesn't know, everything. By the time, she's done 'clarifying' it might be too late.

People are responding to her on Twitter that perhaps she should have figured all this out before the bill was passed. And because she didn't many workers are now faced with the loss of income as they head into 2020.

Why my posting about all this puts you on the attack, I have no idea. Nor do I care to engage anymore.

R179 is correct. I'm a good soul. Perhaps I'll emerge from this better off. Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, I'm going to stop engaging and try to enjoy the last few days of 2019 before my clients drop me (they've already emailed me saying they can't work with me in 2020 because of AB5).

Merry Christmas and I hope you can be more understanding of people in my position in the future.

You went on the attack from the very beginning, and have been on the attack all through this thread, so of course you got pushback. Why are you surprised? And instead of attacking the people fucking you over, you went after the people trying to fix things. And you missed that this didn't start with the legislature, it started with a California Supreme Court decision. And you've been blaming a single person, Lorena Gonzalez, ignoring the other legislators who amended it and voted for it and the governor who signed it into law.

You're not "engaging;" you're ranting. That's your prerogative, of course, but I don't have to take it seriously or pretend that you know what you're talking about.

I think I might have missed something so hope someone can fill me in. A company can use 35 of your writings OP and after that they either make you an employee or they have to stop using you. Is that correct? If so, they still have 35 of your writings they can use so I don't understand why they would just stop using you completely.

Troll R186, look at the link below. Google is full of answers to your basic questions. In the troll fake question you faux-naively pose, the issue is simple. The employer would stop using the casual employee because after 35 "jobs," in order to employ the employee further, the employer is required to classify and benefit the employee as a regular employee, providing such things as:

Payroll and social security taxes;

Unemployment insurance;

Various benefits given to other employees in the company, such as paid time off and medical.

This is the huge glaring problem of contract and gig jobs. For the hiring company, all the costs of having employees are delegated to the employee and greater society. Gig employees are more likely to use Medicaid and other welfare services, for instance.

This bill affects more than Uber and DoorDash drivers. Many people in the tech sector are hired as independent contractors, even though they are working alongside regular employees. A good friend has worked as a contractor for Apple for 6 years now.

He works in a department that is about 1/3 Apple employees and 2/3 contractors. They all do similar programming and technical work; and unlike gig employees, their work lives are controlled by Apple. Apple will not give him a regular job, even though they are clearly happy with his work. He did recently leave Apple for a regular job in another industry.

I'm not a troll R187, but you are a jackass. The companies didn't have to immediately stop using his work, they chose that option. So he should ask why they are dropping him immediately instead of using some of his articles.

I'm very aware of what an independent contractor is and I have been one for many years. I don't think it is a good bill, but I understand the logic behind it. Unfortunately too many people don't look for the unattended consequences of bills or actions. In this case they were trying to make companies do the right thing, but hurt many independent contractors.

AB 5 does not hurt any legitimate independent contractors. It hurts people who have enabled the efforts of unscrupulous employers to undermine and avoid the labor laws that protect the American worker, laws we fought long and hard to enact. People working on a daily basis for an employer who go along with the 'independent contractor' dodge are little more than scabs.

Sadly, their actions will bite them on the ass soon. As independent contractors, they will be ineligible for Unemployment Insurance unless the California Department of Labor reviews their case and determines that during the period of the work done, they were actually employees. But by doing that, they will be admitting they were never independent contractors.

This tough consequence is one they have helped to bring on themselves.

R185: And I'll again note not ONCE in this thread has uppity OP told us what she does for a career and why full time employment is so difficult for her. I and others have asked these questions multiple times and we just get hysterics as you noted, R185. This whole thread is fake as fuck.

OP, I hope you can focus some energy/time into getting yourself some relief or assistance in taking care of your aging parents. Can you get paid by the state as their caretaker? Elderly caretaking is very stressful. It must feel like you don’t have control over much in your life. Especially with AB5.

R191, he told us he was a truck driver in R129.

Do pay more attention.

Driving a long-haul truck is not independent contractor work. You have to pick up specific cargo at specific locations and deliver it and drop it off in specific places, all of it exactly as instructed by the employer. The driver is straight up an employee. If AB 5 curbs that abuse, good. It should be curbed.

Years ago I knew a guy that was a truck driver. One minute he is in Colorado and the next he is in New York. It's a tough job and you are on a very tight schedule.

Under those standards, R194, almost any kind of work could be deemed employee work. An independent contractor works within the parameters of the specific need a business hires him for. I can't imagine a business would contract with someone and then say "We're not going to give you instructions on what we need or when we need it. You can just do whatever you want and provide it whenever you want." In the case of a truck driver, what makes them independent is that once they deliver their cargo, the hiring company is under no obligation to provide another delivery job to the driver. The work has ended and therefore the contract has ended. Also, the truck driver is not limited to only driving for one specific business. He's free to sell his service to any business that wants to use him. He also provides his own vehicle, insurance, and other related operating expenses. He is free to take or refuse a job and determines his own availability to work. He is no different than an attorney, a realtor or a dentist, all of whom are exempt from this law.

No, R196. Stop making things up.

[quote]This whole thread is fake as fuck.

It's also a very common tactic any time legislation is passed that offers protections to workers or the general public, R191. Remember the claims after the ACA was passed? It was "killing jobs!!!!" It was "hurting those who liked their insurance!!!!" It was even "killing people!!!!!" There was a whole Hannity show dedicated to four or five people who claimed to have been damaged by the ACA. Another woman, in a story that went viral, insisted that the ACA was "literally killing her" as she was dealing with, I think, leukemia. Then there was the Florida man whose story also went viral that the ACA just wasn't there for him and he wasn't getting the eye (?) treatment he so badly needed.

Every single one of these stories proved to be false in one way or another. The Florida guy's problem, for example, wasn't with the ACA, it was that a) he had proudly and publicly declined to get health insurance in defiance of the mandate and b) the Florida legislature had refused to expand Medicaid, which he would have been eligible for.

We've also seen multiple posts here over the years from anonymous posters who have insisted that the ACA is doing terrible damage to them, most of which either had no evidence to back it up or were provably false once people started digging. Were there people hurt by the ACA? Yeah, there were, usually young, healthy males who made just enough that they could not get subsidies. But, by and large, as we've repeatedly seen, the bill worked.

Are there people negatively affected by AB5? Probably, but the seed was sown not by the legislature but by the courts. Moreover, R190 has it exactly right. The root cause here isn't AB5.

[quote]He works in a department that is about 1/3 Apple employees and 2/3 contractors.

Microsoft used to do this all the time until they got sued by all of those "permatemp" contractors and lost. Microsoft eventually settled and instituted new rules about when to use contractors.

People defending this atrocity of a bill are evil.

They can’t be that stupid.

You also voted for this bill R200. Directly or indirectly

OP

Please keep us updated.

The offer of monetary assistance still stands, even though I took your wonderful advice and gave the gentlemen at our local homeless shelter some cash today.

Stood outside and watched as they left, and just walked up and gave it to them.

Almost all are vets, and what happened to them sucks. They were sent off to fight an illegal war that has destroyed them. Some of them are younger than I am.

There’s a VA nearby.

I honestly didn’t care if they used it to get plastered this afternoon before they headed back to the shelter. Weather is nice, so they could sleep it off outside. Most of them were just happy to have $20.

Depressing, but makes you appreciate how lucky you are to have a roof and hot water.

Good luck.

“...Then I sent him off to Vietnam, on his senior trip...”

I could go on and on about R196, who doesn't really understand modern trucking. The whole industry for 90% of truck drivers is a scam. You don't usually own your rig, you lease it from the company you work for. You aren't allowed to use it for other companies, so you're locked in to one employer. You can't take other jobs.

You're an independent contractor, but all these companies do is trucking and trucking logistics. Without the truckers and trucking, there would be no business. These independent contractors are given a route and a time frame (usually some version of 'now'), and a proffered payment for completion. Their runs are scheduled to the minute, and everything the trucker does is tracked by computers, satellites, and cameras. Does that sound like independent work?

The trips nearly always comprise several 'gotchas' in the form of built-in delays and extra work (side trips, loading/unloading) involved that aren't disclosed when the run is assigned. The scheduler will always claim it was an unforeseen event. Even though this work isn't part of the accepted contract, if the contractor/trucker refuses to do it, s/he will be fired immediately and won't be paid for the trip taken.

The trucker gets paid his contractor wage, and with all the deductions the trucking company takes for lease payments and other fees, and the full amount of employment and SS taxes and other expenses the trucker has to pay, the trucker suddenly discovers he's not even making minimum wage for his time. Sometimes they discover they are not making anything at all, if they don't get enough high-wage assignments.

When this happens, the trucker often responds by dumping all his trash out of his truck onto the ground outside the truck, or near the nearest trash can, and leaving the truck, with the keys in the ignition, in the lot. The trucker quits by telephone.