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The UK responds to the USA’s healthcare system and costs

Priceless

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by Anonymousreply 159December 12, 2019 7:53 AM

We know, it is all over the internet.

AND....nothing will change unless we elect Sanders.

by Anonymousreply 1December 4, 2019 9:01 AM

Wait a sec, they charge you to hold your baby after a C-section?! My word!

I really hope the Republicans are defeated, beyond doubt, for the sake of the American people. And the rest of us who don't want US companies to feed on the carcass of our own hollowed out health systems.

The American people, are good. But your governments have done some real evil shit.

by Anonymousreply 2December 4, 2019 9:10 AM

IT’S SOCIALISM!!!

by Anonymousreply 3December 4, 2019 9:11 AM

Also, why does this distortion keep being perpetuated that the NHS is free?

It's not free! It is contributed to by everyone who pays national insurance.

by Anonymousreply 4December 4, 2019 9:16 AM

R4 Jesus, you fucking retard. We know, but compared to America it’s free since a heart attack or cancer won’t lead to a lost home.

by Anonymousreply 5December 4, 2019 9:30 AM

Wow.

by Anonymousreply 6December 4, 2019 10:12 AM

Just a reminder they used to own half the world.

by Anonymousreply 7December 4, 2019 10:43 AM

Fat whores agonize!!! Diabetics who do not have medical coverage or insurance have to pay around $1000 every month for the life-saving drug.

Disgusting!!!

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by Anonymousreply 8December 4, 2019 11:48 AM

No western country wants the fucking US system of healthcare. Not one.

by Anonymousreply 9December 4, 2019 11:51 AM

Healthcare costs would be a fraction of what they are if people didn’t eat so many goddamn carbs.

by Anonymousreply 10December 4, 2019 11:52 AM

R5, at my level of retardation I understand what a non-sequitur is, you, clearly, do not.

by Anonymousreply 11December 4, 2019 12:16 PM

Last time I saw figures cost of US health system was 16% of GDP and that of the UK 9% (if I remember correctly). To an outsider the US system seems so expensive yet gives such patchy access to care.

by Anonymousreply 12December 4, 2019 12:33 PM

The NHS couldn’t save Magdalen Berns.

by Anonymousreply 13December 4, 2019 12:35 PM

yes, but if US system is so bad then why do all the VIPs get their cancer treatments and major procedures done here? Like Mick Jagger?

by Anonymousreply 14December 4, 2019 12:41 PM

You already answered your own question = "VIPs."

by Anonymousreply 15December 4, 2019 12:59 PM

The US has a great health care system for the wealthy, that's why R14.

by Anonymousreply 16December 4, 2019 1:11 PM

R16 True

by Anonymousreply 17December 4, 2019 3:16 PM
by Anonymousreply 18December 4, 2019 5:55 PM

Sorry, wealthy VIPs are xenophobic. For instance, Beyonce gave birth at a brand new VIP birthing center (never was used before). It is not quality modern medicine they are looking for, they are looking for luxury hotel like service and brand new. American is one of the only industrial nations to do this, catering to the wealthy. We do not need more concierges and SFERRA sheets, we need more medical doctors and nurse practitioners.

by Anonymousreply 19December 4, 2019 6:06 PM

Who cares about what the British think? I mean really! Who gives a shit? The British are a dirty filthy people with bad teeth. They have bad health care because they can’t figure out how to fix their own peoples’ bad breath, crooked teeth, obesity and bad hygiene problems.

There is simply nothing to brag about when it comes to the NHS.

by Anonymousreply 20December 4, 2019 6:18 PM

All I ever hear from my British cousins is how horrible the NHS is. Some waited months for cancer diagnoses. The state of the Western world today - no one is happy with what they have. While everyone in China is happy to a roof over their head and work 80 hour weeks. Harsh reality of global capitalism.

by Anonymousreply 21December 4, 2019 6:28 PM
by Anonymousreply 22December 6, 2019 4:41 AM

Yes you can wait months for non life threatening operations or to be seen by a consultant for non life threatening ailments. I have family in England and Ireland. The bad - my aunt waited 14 months for cataract removal, my uncle waited 15 weeks to see a consultant when he had knee pain. Ireland in particular has overcrowded hospitals and you can be left on a trolley in the corridor for hours waiting for a bed. BUT when my aunt went to A&E with a foot issue they admitted her, ran a bunch of tests and discovered lung cancer accidentally. She started treatment a few days later and all treatment right up to in home hospice care was free. The only expense the family had was gas and parking taking her to daily radiation appointments - and at that the nurses gave her forms to fill in to claim that money back. My great uncle currently has diabetes, Parkinson’s and COPD. His medicines are free, he’s hospitalized a few times every year, sees his doctor weekly, has a nurse that visits - all free. For working class people like them it’s a great system.

Wealthy people do have private insurance though and they attend private hospitals to dodge the waitlists. In Ireland (my English relatives don’t complain as much about this) it’s becoming a very two tier system between those who have private insurance and those who do not. They don’t have any real left wing party, the major parties are centre right neo-liberals and the answer from government is if you don’t like it get private insurance.

Of course the Uber Rich will go to the US for treatment for the same reason the Uber rich will send their kids to American universities and buy property in the USA - it’s a great county to be rich in.

by Anonymousreply 23December 6, 2019 5:09 AM

There are millions of Americans who have had cancer, transplants, heart attacks and all kinds of expensive treatments, and who had their medical bills paid for by their ordinary medical insurance. They haven't lost their home or their savings and haven't had to declare bankruptcy. Foreigners ignore the normal experience of Americans and focus on extreme cases in order to make themselves feel better about their own system.

by Anonymousreply 24December 6, 2019 5:23 AM

R23 Thank you for that. Wow.

by Anonymousreply 25December 6, 2019 5:24 AM

I’ll also add that it’s not an us vs them, winner vs loser thing. Europeans who are terrified by the notion of the US healthcare system would be the first to agree that the US has some of the best facilities in the world. The would never put their best against our best. Many European doctors train in the US because the training isn’t available in their own small countries. Likewise, Europeans who think US college fees are criminal would be the first to admit that the US has some of the best the best universities in the world, has produced some of the greatest minds, etc... I think that point is lost on some Americans who see any criticism as an all out attack on everything American and an attempt for others to assert dominance and superiority in every facet of life. The need to dominate and “win” is just not present in most European cultures. Sit at a bar in Ireland and they’ll tell you their country is a “kip”, the government are “a shower of hoors”, Leo Varadkar is a “cunt” - and those are the proud ones! Get them started on the healthcare system and you’ll be there for days listening to them moan. It’s a total culture shock for Americans raised in an environment where criticism of the country labels you a “commie” and “not a patriot” who “hates America”. If you go on a rant calling everybody in power a bollocks and a cunt the response you get is “good man yourself” and then they buy you a drink! I dated an Aussie who told me they’re the same. Criticising doesn’t mean you despise it and want to destroy it but rather that you value it and want to improve it. So, I never go into major defence mode when someone has a suggestion for how we could do better.

by Anonymousreply 26December 6, 2019 5:51 AM

R26 Stop. Please. Whaddya make, $80,000+ a year?

by Anonymousreply 27December 6, 2019 6:14 AM

R27 Huh? That post went right over my head but no I work two jobs to get by. Just lost one recently and struggling again to save anything at the end of the month.

by Anonymousreply 28December 6, 2019 6:17 AM

[quote]yes, but if US system is so bad then why do all the VIPs get their cancer treatments and major procedures done here? Like Mick Jagger?

They go everywhere, to be honest. Not just the US. Mostly for the privacy. Can you imagine a VIP sitting and waiting in your local clap clinic?

by Anonymousreply 29December 6, 2019 6:50 AM

In Ireland despite problems in the health services you will not die on the streets if there’s something wrong with you and you have no money once you get into the system the treatment you get in the public hospital is as good as you get in the private hospital. On top of that Irish nurses are almost like your mother or your big sister they have personalities and they give a damn about their patients.

My HIV medication costing over 35,000 a year is paid for by the government and I also carry private Health insurance which costs me about 2000 a year but it’s so I can choose my own consultants and in the event I need to go to hospital immediately. I get reimbursed 60% of my doctors visits and most procedures that I may have such as a bronchoscopy or anything else are fully covered on my insurance. I had hospital stays in a private room in one of the top hospitals for a week or for cancer treatment for several weeks and it was all covered on my insurance.

Unlike the USA you don’t see people walking around with cancer growing on the side of the face or festering legs or other medical conditions that they can’t afford to have taken care of. On this small rock off a slightly larger rock in the Atlantic our health system is accessible to all unlike in the USA.

Corporate greed murders people.

by Anonymousreply 30December 6, 2019 6:55 AM

Hi r30 “Nice” to meet someone living with HIV in Ireland. My family over there live in a rural area so I haven’t had much chance to meet other gay men aside from a few boozy nights in the George before I fly home. I’ve often wondered how HIV patients are treated so it’s good to know you’re well looked after.

I had leg pain once after the flight and ended in in Limerick hospital to rule out DVT. I agree about the nurses although the Irish mammy types were outnumbered by foreign women but they too were very professional and mannerly.

by Anonymousreply 31December 6, 2019 7:08 AM

R31 hi there thanks for that. It’s grand can’t fault it. Prep now free to all.

by Anonymousreply 32December 6, 2019 7:12 AM

R31 hi there thanks for that. It’s grand can’t fault it. Prep now free to all.

by Anonymousreply 33December 6, 2019 7:12 AM

R21 "While everyone in China is happy to a roof over their head and work 80 hour weeks. Harsh reality of global capitalism. "

Are they happy to work 80 hours a week or do they just accept it because there is nothing they can do about it?

by Anonymousreply 34December 6, 2019 7:13 AM

[quote]yes, but if US system is so bad then why do all the VIPs get their cancer treatments and major procedures done here? Like Mick Jagger?

Why did Rand Paul -a fucking LIBERTARIAN- go to Canada to have his surgery? And he has his health insurance paid for by the American people, so he had numerous options in 'muricah and still went up to Canada.

by Anonymousreply 35December 6, 2019 7:17 AM

I recently had Bell’s Palsy and was seen by my doctor at a free clinic that I go to for a totally unrelated issue. I lost my job a few months ago, and had to explain to one of the other doctors there why I hadn’t gone to the hospital or anywhere for treatment. She kept insisting I should go for a battery of tests and even said “The ER will treat you without insurance”. Well duh, they’ll also send a massive bill I can’t pay! I’m currently paying off another ER bill from when I had insurance that included an ambulance ride and is well over $1000.

by Anonymousreply 36December 6, 2019 8:01 AM

R26 what bullshit

"Europeans who are terrified by the notion of the US healthcare system would be the first to agree that the US has some of the best facilities in the world. The would never put their best against our best. Many European doctors train in the US because the training isn’t available in their own small countries."

I am European (German) and I do not agree that your facilities are the best in the world. I know no doctors here who trained in the US, I cannot find a statistic for any numbers. I do not know where you get this information.

by Anonymousreply 37December 6, 2019 8:18 AM

I've been living in the U.K. off and on for the past three years. When I'm not, I'm traveling in other countries around Europe. I find it cheaper to go to a private clinic for my dental, dermatology, physical, and optometry appointments. My out-of-pocket cost? $45 for a full cleaning by a hygienist, dental appointment with x-rays $110, dermatology appointment $90, full physical with bloodwork and an hour consultation with doctor $600. A prescription that I filled in the U.S. was $250 and in the U.K. it was $60 - same dose in both countries. So glad that I only carried only major medical travel insurance with a super high deductible to lower the price to $2,000 annually while I've been here. When I tell people how much I pay in the U.S. their reaction is the same as you saw in the video.

by Anonymousreply 38December 6, 2019 8:37 AM

R10, you really think that CARBS are the problem? We really need a better healthcare system that educates people like you.

by Anonymousreply 39December 6, 2019 8:46 AM

Dear idiot at R10,

Germany eats bread and potatoes Italy bread and pasta

In fact we have lower healthcare costs and eat more carbs and are thinner than you fat fucks.

by Anonymousreply 40December 6, 2019 9:10 AM

As much as people whine about the NHS, I wouldn't swap it for the American system for anything. Yes it's under staffed, over worked and it can take ages to get appointments - but in emergencies the treatment you get is incredible and you walk out of the hospital with nothing to pay. It's not perfect but it's better than the alternative.

by Anonymousreply 41December 6, 2019 10:48 AM

Also to add, our prescriptions are heavily subsidised by the NHS, I have a regular medication that costs me £9 when the exact same thing would cost $200 (I've looked it up online). I could afford to pay that much, but a lot of people couldn't. It's not life saving medication but it would severely impact my quality of life to go without.

by Anonymousreply 42December 6, 2019 10:52 AM

A friend's mother got gravely ill while on a European cruise and was taken to a hospital in Vienna. One of her sons and two son-in-laws are US doctors and flew to be by her side. All three said the level of care she received from doctors, nurses and staff was so far above what would happen in a US hospital that they were astonished. One said that if he ever got ill, he would want to be treated in Vienna.

Our US healthcare system is badly broken and it needs a complete overhaul and strong regulation of big pharma. Being sick in the US should not lead to financial ruination. It's barbaric.

by Anonymousreply 43December 6, 2019 11:05 AM

No one is flying to the UK for advanced health care. Everyone travels to the US.

by Anonymousreply 44December 6, 2019 11:12 AM

R37 What German facility would you put up there with the Mayo clinic?

by Anonymousreply 45December 6, 2019 11:35 AM

Sorry hit submit too soon

Charitie in Berlin? Yes probably. I assume that treats many Central Europeans too who get referred there. In the U.K./Ireland rate cases get referred very often to Canadian or US facilities. Not sure why- geography? Language?

by Anonymousreply 46December 6, 2019 11:38 AM

We got freedom in America tho!!!

by Anonymousreply 47December 6, 2019 11:43 AM

R37 Out of his ass, probably. I'm French and don't know anyone who trained in the US. One friend went to Sweden, though, and said that healthcare was excellent there.

by Anonymousreply 48December 6, 2019 11:47 AM

I am facing financial ruin now due to an overnight stay in a hospital due to internal bleeding. The insurance company refuses to pay for it. I have tried to get the hospital to resubmit the paperwork correctly. They do not. It is not possible to contact the doctors from the hospital because they do not have an office with hours, they are attached to a network of hospitals and travel among them. The woman in billing doesn't care. I am older, have failing eyesight, can't drive at night due to the failing eyesight and should not drive at all, truthfully, suffer from Parkinson's disease and am gay. Yeah, I will find a job alright, real fast, yep, mm...hmmm.

by Anonymousreply 49December 6, 2019 12:01 PM

R37 It was a broad comment but well intentioned because threads like like always become slugfests. I learned a lot from a Reddit thread on taxation started by a Dane but in the end he was ripped by Americans who felt attacked and by other Europeans saying not in my European country. We're even making assumptions in here when we say American as we are ignoring the millions on assistance and the millions with great healthcare covered by their employer. It was even mentioned that Europeans , SOME Europeans, are buying private insurance on top of their taxes because the free healthcare isn't quite good enough to meet their needs even though they would never wish to replace it with our system. So, it's complex and we need to be reminded not to take it personally and not to shut down the conversation by saying 'show us your Mayo clinic euroboy', or 'would Jagger go to your national hospital'

by Anonymousreply 50December 6, 2019 12:03 PM

A quick google tells me that Irish doctors leave at unsustainable levels R26 mentioned Ireland several times so I assume he's that's where he is getting his ideas.

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by Anonymousreply 51December 6, 2019 12:06 PM

What is needed in the US is just a public option for the 10% or so without insurance. Not a total replacement of the system. Private insurance works great for the vast majority of the population.

by Anonymousreply 52December 6, 2019 12:16 PM

R48 You make a good point though. Some European countries have a better healthcare system than others. When I hear Brits complaining abut the NHS I have always assumed they are looking at a much better run socialized system in another European country and they would like to move in that direction. In online discussion it always devolves into US vs UK with the assumption that those who criticize the NHS would rather a US model.

It would be interesting to compare the European countries and see how it works. I was unaware that some also had private insurance too. Another quick google and I see in France private companies have to provide employees with a private plan. OTOH in only 4 million people in the UK have private cover. Very interesting. I'm going to do some research about this because it seems like there's more of a two tier system operating in some countries than I was aware of.

by Anonymousreply 53December 6, 2019 12:17 PM

[quote] While everyone in China is happy to a roof over their head and work 80 hour weeks.

The roofs leak, the work would constitute slavery in any Western nation, and the people get put in gulags if they complain.

by Anonymousreply 54December 6, 2019 12:20 PM

Great, informative replies. It’s eye-opening all the way around - and that’s WITHOUT even picking sides.

Keep the replies coming!

by Anonymousreply 55December 6, 2019 12:28 PM

Are the smaller and/or poorer countries considered 'flyover' by the bog boys - Germans, French etc.. because I have noticed the various European countries don't know a lot about each other. Leaving aside any Brexit business, I don't get the impression that the average Brit would know much about Germany's healthcare system or Sweden's tax code. Would the Germans be able to name one Irish university or one Spanish hospital? I doubt it - or vice versa for matter. Despite having freedom or work and travel, I haven't heard of anyone up and moving to another EU country because it has better government benefits. Perhaps it happens and goes unreported.

by Anonymousreply 56December 6, 2019 12:37 PM

I had my baby for free on Medicaid. I was poor.

It was great care. Medicaid paid for it all. Then I had some Obamacare had to have gallbladder surgery and had a laroscopy I think it was? I paid less than $300. But I won't lie, in the hospital for those few days I was like what am I going to do if I get a bill? I resolved I just wouldn't pay it because I couldn't.

I remember I had a hospital bill for $4k when I was 18 years old and I didn't pay that either because I couldn't. They kept sending collection letters but eventually it just went away and they probably wrote it off. I feel like there is this unspoken rule not to pay absurd amounts, which is insane. The hospitals will gladly accept whatever payment from financially responsible people who do pay.

I wonder what would have happened to middle class home owners who said, nah I'm not going to pay. I heard on local radio a woman said she was faced with bills and a choice between paying the bills or paying her mortgage. What if she said no? Would they really take her house away? I don't think so.

It's just not transparent and very hazy. At the end of the day, just don't pay. The system will correct itself.

by Anonymousreply 57December 6, 2019 12:43 PM

It's also completed absurd to me that Medical billers who work in coding recommend to call the hospital to have the price negotiated down. It's crazy. It shouldn't be a haggle affair like an auction.

I recommend everyone to not pay. Please bring the injustice to a standstill. Our government can cover this. We absolutely do not need the over bloated military budget.

R10 is right about being height weight proportionate to eliminate most diseases. Our food culture is very unhealthy.

by Anonymousreply 58December 6, 2019 12:48 PM

R45, where to start? Which specialty?

The first one that comes to mind is the Charité in Berlin, but there are many other fantastic hospitals.

by Anonymousreply 59December 6, 2019 12:55 PM

Are there inter-country agreements in Europe. Can a Czech go to Germany or France to get treatment because he would prefer it? Could one of the Irish people stuck on waitlists say I'll have my cataracts removed in Germany? Are there certain diseases that would get someone in Malta/Portugal/Ireland/Denmark (thinking small) sent to Germany for treatment paid for by their government?

by Anonymousreply 60December 6, 2019 1:10 PM

R57. I know someone who recently had their wages garnished because of an old hospital bill.

I have known health care providers who resent patients with Medicaid because “they don’t pay”.

by Anonymousreply 61December 6, 2019 1:10 PM

R61 I am not saying it doesn't happen but should we really have to be like John Q to get care?

Fight the power!

by Anonymousreply 62December 6, 2019 1:26 PM

R60 No there are no agreements like that.

by Anonymousreply 63December 6, 2019 1:38 PM

No they can’t. If treatment is not available in Ireland the patient will be sent to the U.K. and the bill paid by the Irish government or their private health insurance. Occasionally you hear of children with rare diseases being sent to the US for treatment. Sometimes parents will raise money to try to get their child experimental treatment in the US or Canada. Why they go to the U.K./US and never (to my knowledge) CHUV in Lusanne or Charite I don’t know. The great hospitals in Europe are where you would expect them to be Switzerland, Germany, France etc

by Anonymousreply 64December 6, 2019 1:45 PM

Whats you problem r4, This is exactly where intelligent people want their taxes to go to....All the tax money that has been wasted and dumped into the war machine we have all been paying into since the end of WW2 is OK but not decent affordable healthcare for all?

by Anonymousreply 65December 6, 2019 1:46 PM

I'm surprised that a US doctor was expecting sub standard care in Vienna. Vienna is one of the wealthiest cities in Europe and regularly tops polls for having the best quality of life in Europe. The hospital staff must have been laughing at the American being stunned to find they are so advanced.

by Anonymousreply 66December 6, 2019 1:48 PM

People saying they had a huge bill and didn’t or won’t pay, have you not tried to pay? I’ve had a huge bill before and the hospital was fine with me paying $10 a month, as long as I was paying them.

by Anonymousreply 67December 6, 2019 2:27 PM

R67, you have to ask yourself why in the hell we pay so much more for things that you know for a fact doesn't cost as much in other first world nations with modern facilities.

Why do you just give in and accept that INSURANCE COMPANIES and BIG PHARMA have destroyed our healthcare system? Wake the hell up.

When you hear of a drug *developed here* that cost us $1000 and other countries pay $50, that doesn't give you pauses to wonder WTF is going on? Even when Americans organized bus trips to Canada to buy the drugs cheaper, our govt stepped in to stop it claiming they can't be sure the drugs would be safe. In fucking CANADA! Because they're whores for lobbies, they didn't want citizens -heaven forbid- buying affordable drugs. We're being fucked over. Spending the rest of your life paying hospitals is not normal.

by Anonymousreply 68December 6, 2019 2:34 PM

Correction: Why do you just give in rather than accept

by Anonymousreply 69December 6, 2019 2:34 PM

pause*

by Anonymousreply 70December 6, 2019 2:35 PM

Every rule and regulation costs money to enforce. That money adds up and the cost gets passed onto the consumers. Nationalizing/socializing it just passes that same cost onto the taxpayers.

by Anonymousreply 71December 6, 2019 2:36 PM

A French person said on a different thread that a French doctor would earn 50K. That explains a lot. American doctors wouldn't get out of bed for that.

by Anonymousreply 72December 6, 2019 2:38 PM

It's hilarious to me that the conservatives fighting against health care for all are usually Christian. I want to ask them, "do you think Christ would be in favor of a system that dictates rich people will suffer less than poor people?"

by Anonymousreply 73December 6, 2019 2:39 PM

J.C. also said "the poor will always be with us," a self-fulfilling prophesy if ever there was one.

by Anonymousreply 74December 6, 2019 2:39 PM

[quote]Every rule and regulation costs money to enforce. That money adds up and the cost gets passed onto the consumers. Nationalizing/socializing it just passes that same cost onto the taxpayers.

Your taxes won't suddenly cost the same amount as what we pay for insurance. That's not how it works. If someone is paying thousands for insurance plus the bills that show up, you're not going to suddenly pay thousands more in taxes - that's a ridiculous notion.

There is NO excuse not to fight for universal hc unless you yourself work in health insurance, pharmaceuticals, you're a greedy doctor or just a congressional whore. Period.

by Anonymousreply 75December 6, 2019 2:44 PM

Why wouldn't you at least demand to have the same coverage as what politicians get? Do you see how they fight against us getting what they get? Republicans have "socialized" healthcare and fight against us getting it, too.

by Anonymousreply 76December 6, 2019 2:46 PM

Look. I'm definitely in the M4A camp. It will drive costs down, and it makes your health insurance portable. It also allows you to supplement it with the private insurer of your choice. Period. And if Employers, like General Motors could escape costly healthcare benefits by paying some flat rate into Medicare once a year, they'd love it.

Some private insurers partner with Medicare right now, like Blue Cross Blue Shield Advantage. Medicare Advantage PPOs are very popular. We can start right now by expanding Medicare enrollment by including people 50 and over, and gradually phase it in. I have friends who are working abroad in various countries right now, and a few of them have little kids. They say they will never come back here because of the healthcare benefits.

As for bitching about higher taxes? If we raise taxes on people making $5,000000 or more we'll be fine. When Eisenhower was President, our tax rate was like, 70% or something. I've never understood why people resent paying taxes if the tax system is fair? We don't work for free. The roads, the water system, the public transportation system, our first responders, our education system, our environment, etc. those people deserve to be paid. Not fucking Donald Trump's golf trips.

by Anonymousreply 77December 6, 2019 2:58 PM

[quote] I'm surprised that a US doctor was expecting sub standard care in Vienna. Vienna is one of the wealthiest cities in Europe and regularly tops polls for having the best quality of life in Europe. The hospital staff must have been laughing at the American being stunned to find they are so advanced.

It wasn't that they were expecting substandard care at all. It was that the care so far went above and beyond all US standards.

by Anonymousreply 78December 6, 2019 3:11 PM

R68 you ask why we accept it. What can we do against big companies? You want us to burn down their building? Seriously what can we do? Most of us can't protest because we have to work to survive.

We can't do anything except what we're told or we'll be living under a bridge.

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by Anonymousreply 79December 6, 2019 3:21 PM

And you and all the other complaining Europeans aren't going to do anything else about it to change it either.

So just shut up because you're all just of talk and nothing ever improves except by electing sensible people like Obama.

by Anonymousreply 80December 6, 2019 3:22 PM

R77 70% is just obscene. All income taxes are nothing but governmental theft, anything above 50% is even worse. The tax burden should be shifted from individuals to businesses.

by Anonymousreply 81December 6, 2019 3:52 PM

I agree it is obscene to charge the individual 70% if huge corporations are using every loophole to get away with paying a pittance but who will be brave enough to go after them?

by Anonymousreply 82December 6, 2019 3:56 PM

[quote]The tax burden should be shifted from individuals to businesses.

CORPORATIONS ARE PEOPLE!!

by Anonymousreply 83December 6, 2019 4:27 PM

Corporations are extremely wealthy overpaid rich people at the top and shareholders and then well paid managers running things, and lowly paid lackeys carrying out the work.

My question is when are they going to outsource CEOs? It really can't be too hard to be a CEO. Lots of people could do it. Talent my ass.

by Anonymousreply 84December 6, 2019 5:49 PM

I don't want to go to war with corporations per se. IMO there is nothing inherently evil about corporations and there is nothing inherently evil about labor unions. We need balance. It is the undue influence in either direction that screw things up. It is not unreasonable to accept that corporations are in business to be profitable. But workers they employ should benefit from those profits not suffer for them. Even now corporations are sabotaging efforts to get universal healthcare even as they withdraw from providing health benefits to workers. That is a bunch of shit. And we go after the lawmakers that's how we fight them. We expose their bribery and coercion and expose lawmakers on the take. RAISE HELL! Donald Trump is the most grotesque, extreme example I can think of off the top of my head, but in this country people do whatever they can get away with. We have to fight that. We have to make sure they DON'T get away with it.

by Anonymousreply 85December 6, 2019 5:57 PM

A 70% tax rate doesn’t mean that you pay 70% of your income in taxes. It means that only the part of your income that exceeds a certain level will be charged at that rate.

Maybe someone can explain this better than I can...

by Anonymousreply 86December 6, 2019 6:12 PM

R86, there's no point in explaining it to people who will never accept that the wealthy have in fact ripped off the rest of us. The idea that so many have so much concern for "taxing the rich" when people like Bezos would rather make everyone part-time workers than pay for healthcare or that asshole from Papa John's thinking an 11 cent increase on his shit pizza is a bridge too far to get the employees healthcare or when we bail out Wall St. for their failures, their instinct -once they're back in the black- is to find new ways to fuck over the people who just bailed you out.

by Anonymousreply 87December 6, 2019 6:21 PM

R85 - I disagree. Corporations are sociopaths by definition. Our employers - corporations - are only allowed to focus on profits and have no defined interest in sympathy and concern for suffering of fellow human beings. The definition of sociopath. It’s an inherent flaw of capitalism system that we have created.

At least in Europe, CEOs and executives can be held personally responsible in bankruptcy - to some extent. In the US, CEOS (ex Trump) can bankrupt company after company, leaving millions suddenly unemployed with no notice and no severance - but have no personal liability.

by Anonymousreply 88December 6, 2019 6:23 PM

R52 Irish physicians earn on average $70k. They want more so that’s why they go.

by Anonymousreply 89December 6, 2019 6:27 PM

Irish and have a European insurance health card. I can get free treatment within the EU.

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by Anonymousreply 90December 6, 2019 6:31 PM

The biggest chunk of tax revenue in European Countries comes from VAT (sales tax).

The average rate is 21.3%. The best thing about it is that foreign tourists pay it on goods and services without realizing - You pay a proportion of our healthcare cost on vacation.

It is possible for non - EU residents to claim some of it back on large purchases, you won't get a refund on most things though (Hotels, meals, tickets etc).

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by Anonymousreply 91December 6, 2019 7:00 PM

VAT raised £132Billion ($170Billion) in 2018 for the UK alone. The NHS budget was £123Billion ($162Billion).

Ignore all of the 'National Insurance' stuff, it's mainly used to pay Old Age Pensions and just another payroll tax.

by Anonymousreply 92December 6, 2019 7:15 PM

But don’t French doctors and German doctors earn similar low salaries compared to the U.K. and the French/German poster where said they are not leaving to practice or train elsewhere? Maybe the language barrier? Or low cost of living despite the comparative wealth of those countries?

by Anonymousreply 93December 6, 2019 7:30 PM

Sorry I meant compared to the US, not the UK

by Anonymousreply 94December 6, 2019 7:30 PM

More!

by Anonymousreply 95December 6, 2019 7:53 PM

Isn't it nice how 80 years ago they were blowing people apart and now they're transborder providing healthcare paid by taxes.

We still have people alive today who were children when they were having war in the streets of Europe.

by Anonymousreply 96December 6, 2019 8:08 PM

[quote]The NHS couldn’t save Magdalen Berns.

No one could have saved her. Magdalen had an aggressive type of brain tumor that has a poor prognosis (median survival rate is 12 months).

by Anonymousreply 97December 6, 2019 8:20 PM

People are mentioning cataract surgery issues in the UK. In the USA, vision coverage is separate and not consider medically necessary. So in the USA, you would have to have an expensive vision private plan too for cataract surgery or pay out of pocket. In the US, eye (vision) and teeth (dental) are not consider medical, you need two extra plans, which is so beyond stupid. Bernie Sanders wants to change this.

People in the UK are supposedly bitching about waiting to have an elective surgery, but in the US it is not covered at all.

by Anonymousreply 98December 6, 2019 8:55 PM

R98- cataract surgery is covered by medical insurance. The surgery is performed by a doctor.

Vision coverage is for optometrists (who are not doctors) for vision checks, glasses, contact lenses.

by Anonymousreply 99December 6, 2019 9:14 PM

R98 it is covered by Medicare. Most people do not need cataract surgery until they are on Medicare. What I don’t understand is why dentures aren’t covered. The ability to chew food should be considered medically necessary.

by Anonymousreply 100December 6, 2019 9:21 PM

Medicare is an awesome deal. But you have to live long enough to use it. All the benefits of great American health care for dirt cheap. Anyone over 65 who votes against Medicare for all is truly evil.

by Anonymousreply 101December 6, 2019 9:32 PM

Seniors on low income get that 20% covered too by various government programs. You guys act like we throw them under a bus and back over them and sell their dead organs on the back market.

Americans just have no tolerance for able bodied people who don't work or pull their own weight. That's why we don't have council flats and we don't want economic migrants moving here to skate and not contribute.

by Anonymousreply 102December 6, 2019 9:36 PM

R101 but that is the point, they have spent a lifetime paying for that benefit, so they don’t like seeing others get it without doing that.

by Anonymousreply 103December 6, 2019 9:37 PM

Nothing should be free. Sorry.

(Unless someone cannot work due to physical or mental impairment).

by Anonymousreply 104December 6, 2019 9:41 PM

R98 Lack of availability in Cataract surgery on the NHS is really a bit of propaganda that seems widely spread in the US.

My Mother, (who has limited vision in her left eye) had a cataract forming on her right eye and had surgery at the local specialist eye hospital in 2 weeks and lots of aftercare.

My husband had one forming in left eye only (good vision in his right) and was told he'd have to wait 6 months (ish), so he went to a local private clinic paid £5,000 ($6,500) to have Zeiss Multifocal lenses implanted in both eyes after removal. He was spending about £600 a year on glasses before so in the long run it's a saving.

Universal Healthcare doesn't remove any choices.

by Anonymousreply 105December 6, 2019 9:46 PM

Don't get sick in Australia. We had a great mostly free health system (except dental work) until about 23 years ago when the likes of John Winston Howard, Julia Eileen Gillard &Anthony John Abbott are their respective health ministers have since white anted the whole system and now most people are out of pocket by hundreds of dollars a year.

by Anonymousreply 106December 6, 2019 9:57 PM

R105 the UK version doesn’t. The problem is while many US politicians who advocate for it mention the NHS, the policies they are proposing is more akin to Canada, which does limit choices and curtail private options. Personally I believe that in socialized healthcare systems people who can afford to go private or have private insurance should be encouraged not hindered from exercising that freedom because they are freeing up resources for those who can’t. I knew a wealthy British couple who lived in the US part of the year and the UK part of the year. Whenever they needed expensive medical care the returned to the UK, to get it free, even though they could afford US care. I viewed it as them stealing services from poorer people in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 107December 6, 2019 10:05 PM

[quote]Nothing should be free. Sorry.

How the fuck is it FREE? We pay via taxes, genius, unless you're very wealthy.

And healthcare isn't a "luxury." We're not talking about lip injections. We're talking about paying so that we have a functioning society. We need healthy citizens so that our country can actually operate. How do you expect that to happen when people are bogged down with medical bills and having to choose between the mortgage and an epipen?

by Anonymousreply 108December 6, 2019 10:14 PM

The problem is you need great infrastructure for that to happen. In Ireland, the same consultants work in the public and private hospitals. On paper they are not meant to be spend more than X% of their working time in the private hospitals but that’s not followed by many. There’s been several investigative pieces that caught doctors seeing private patients for far longer than they are supposed to. This leads to longer and longer waitlists. If doctors can earn more treating private patients they follow the money. You would need complete separation and no doctors serving both sectors for a two tier system to work well and have no effort on the care public patients receive.

by Anonymousreply 109December 6, 2019 10:15 PM

Elizabeth Warren, R82. As for "Christian" rethuglicans, they sold their souls long ago. I'd love to hear their response to the Bible's stance of it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven. Since they're all going to hell anyway, I guess they don't care.

by Anonymousreply 110December 6, 2019 10:49 PM

R109 Ireland wasn't part of the UK when the NHS was established, plus the 2008 recession has caused another wave of young healthy people to leave (356,000 people emigrated over 10 years). It has pretty unique problems, a tiny widespread population in most of the country with Dublin being the total opposite and overcrowded.

NHS doctors are free to practice privately but they must fulfill their NHS contracted hours first, so it can work.

by Anonymousreply 111December 6, 2019 10:51 PM

R71 That’s the point: we ALL pay - less - for ALL, including ourselves, to be MEDically CAREd for.

FOR ALL.

by Anonymousreply 112December 6, 2019 11:09 PM

A friend of mine moved back home to Ireland to take care of his elderly parents. He was suddenly hospitalized with brain inflammation and lesions. Was in hospital for 1 month, they didn't know what the fuck was wrong with him. They gave him a type of treatment like Chemo. Got out after 1 month and they tell him to come back in 6 month's time for another brain scan. They think it's MS but not sure.

So he goes back after 6 months for a brain scan. He doesn't know the results of brain scan until he sees the consultant which took 4 weeks. So imagine, the poor fella wondering for all that time...

So he finally saw the consultant and they compared the brain scans and they diagnosed him with MS.

by Anonymousreply 113December 6, 2019 11:09 PM

R75 and R76, you bitches are ON. FIRE. 🔥 tonight, smoking bitches with the utter and crystalline and beautiful TRUTH.

Progressive bitches be like -

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by Anonymousreply 114December 6, 2019 11:13 PM

[quote] I'd love to hear their response to the Bible's stance of it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven.

Being forced to pay taxes wouldn't help that rich man get into heaven. Only, his freewill choices would. Just like how being forced to follow non-discrimination policies at work doesn't absolve a person of bigotry. Only their non-forced choices, in the rest of their lives, do.

by Anonymousreply 115December 6, 2019 11:14 PM

R77 Yas, bitch! FEED the malnourished children of the right and center.

We are Progressive. We are not left or center or right.

We are FORWARD.

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by Anonymousreply 116December 6, 2019 11:16 PM

R113 It would have been the same wherever he lived.

No single test can diagnose MS. The medical history, neurologic exam and lab tests help healthcare providers rule out other diseases and confirm the MS diagnosis.

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by Anonymousreply 117December 6, 2019 11:20 PM

Another story told by my friend who moved home to Ireland to take care of his parents.

His dad needed a hip transplant. But it took over 18 months to see a specialist who then took his xrays etc Then he had to wait close to another year for the operation...He really needed to do both hips but only one was in terrible condition so they only did one hip. He's 80 and spent over 1 month in the hospital ( most people get out after a few days). Turns out the doctor didn't do a good job and he's still walking with the zimmer frame, confined to his room. The doctor said he could do re-do it etc...but my friend is hesitant considering his dad suffered so much the first time around...

it's not free, he paid via his taxes from a lifetime of hard work.

by Anonymousreply 118December 6, 2019 11:21 PM

R117, yes I know but it took 4 weeks to find out the results of his brain scan. That is just wrong.

by Anonymousreply 119December 6, 2019 11:22 PM

I was in the hospital for chest pains. I was being monitored for about 2 hours and the bill was 5000. I couldn't pay it so they garnished my wages.

by Anonymousreply 120December 6, 2019 11:27 PM

You can look at stats and charts and it is so obvious America has a inefficient, expensive and unfair health funding system. America spends $10k per capita each year on health care, compared to $5k socialist hell holes like Japan, Canada and Germany. You can point out that's $400,000 per citizen pissed up against a wall over the course of a life.

But how do you break through those emotional barriers carefully planted over a lifetime? How do you get through "socialised medicine = communism" "I worked too hard to pay for someone else's health", examples of one where some child with a rare incurable disease has treatment stopped in the UK and their desperate parents fly to America to become Fox News pawns to bash the NHS in return for one last hopeless experimental treatment. Or the endless sunshine and glowing good health of Insurance ads.

by Anonymousreply 121December 6, 2019 11:28 PM

R119 I'm pretty sure brain scans aren't just looked at by one specialist, they usually have a team reviewing them. It takes a while.

by Anonymousreply 122December 6, 2019 11:30 PM

R120, did you go to a state hospital? I know some have payment scales, you pay according to how much you make. you have to prove it of course.

by Anonymousreply 123December 6, 2019 11:32 PM

My point is that they clearly don't care about those less well off than they are, R115, or they would stop taking bribes (sorry, "lobbying") from insurance companies and Big Pharma while voting against initiatives that would help most - if not all - of their constituency. All the while they are getting excellent health care and making more and more money from those lobbyists and our tax dollars.

by Anonymousreply 124December 6, 2019 11:36 PM

R122, it doesn't take 4 weeks to find out the results of brain scans in the USA, even if your are dirt poor with no insurance.

It probably takes one week max. And if they are using it to diagnose cancer or something serious, it's even faster.

I've never had a scan so I don't know.

But also, can other people chime in, when you get scans, do they let you keep the scans? In Ireland, the doctors keep all your scans and records, imagine if they did something wrong, and you sue them, couldn't they just go into your records to change it to their advantage?

My sister has had breast mammogram in the USA and she got the scans at home. Do they not let you keep your own scans in Europe?

by Anonymousreply 125December 6, 2019 11:39 PM

R125 Ireland isn't particularly representative of Universal Healthcare, as I said at R111 they have a small aging population and strictly speaking don't have a Universal Healthcare system in place. It may improve if Sláintecare is ever fully implemented.

You can have copies of scans, x-rays and records in the UK, not sure about elsewhere.

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by Anonymousreply 126December 6, 2019 11:51 PM

This link works better

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by Anonymousreply 127December 6, 2019 11:54 PM

I just love you, R114/R116

by Anonymousreply 128December 7, 2019 12:08 AM

R125 In France you get a copy of X-rays and scans too. Usually the patients bring them back to their primary care doctor so they can have a look and make a copy, and the patient keeps the documents.

I've heard some hospitals are reluctant to give them to the patients, usually making bad excuses, but the patient is entitled to be able to consult and make copies of their files. It's the law.

by Anonymousreply 129December 7, 2019 12:08 AM

[Quote] yes, but if US system is so bad then why do all the VIPs get their cancer treatments and major procedures done here? Like Mick Jagger?

First, that’s a lie. The vast vast majority of the world’s VIPs don’t come to the US for healthcare. Those that do come to specific high quality centers, not just any center that’s around.

The US has good PR when it comes to our healthcare system. We keep telling everyone the lie that ours is so wonderful. Heck, even Americans believe that BS

by Anonymousreply 130December 7, 2019 12:11 AM

Apparently our medical system is so far in advance of the other first world nations that even the Tylenol we get handed in the ER while waiting for hours for a bed obviously come from like a special fucking golden goose because the bill shows they charged insurance $300 for them. I mean obviously it's a special Tylenol because I could've just gone to fucking CVS.

Can one of you who think we're so advanced explain this one to me?

by Anonymousreply 131December 7, 2019 12:12 AM

If the nonsense about socialized systems leading to in terminally long waits were true, why would lifespan be consistently higher in those countries than in the US?

by Anonymousreply 132December 7, 2019 12:13 AM

[Quote] Medicare is an awesome deal. But you have to live long enough to use it. All the benefits of great American health care for dirt cheap. Anyone over 65 who votes against Medicare for all is truly evil.

Despite Medicare being a great program, the elderly in all other developed countries get more benefits than Medicare provides our elderly

by Anonymousreply 133December 7, 2019 12:15 AM

R132 I understand the waits, where they exist, are for treating non-life threatening conditions. Likewise, overcrowding in emergency rooms is dealt with on a needs first basis. If you come in with chest pain you are seen immediately but if you have a broken limb you could be left there for hours and hours. Those countries also have better welfare systems in general so the elderly receive more assistance which I’m sure helps prolong life expectancy. I’d also guess that familial support is a factor. Many European and Asian countries still retain the idea of the family above all else.

by Anonymousreply 134December 7, 2019 12:20 AM

R93 In France we don't have enough doctors so it would be bad form to get the free education here and then fuck off wherever the pay is better. Also the formation is probably not exactly the same and there could be additional classes and exams to pass to be authorised to practice in another country. And we suck at English.

Personally I love my homeland and there's no way I'm leaving, even for twice the pay. Especially to go to the US. No offence, but you are kinda scary.

by Anonymousreply 135December 7, 2019 12:30 AM

R134 People with broken limbs get seen quite quickly, it's usually the drunks who have fallen on their faces that get left waiting until they sober up a little waiting in Emergency Rooms in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 136December 7, 2019 12:33 AM

R135 Getting educated for free and fucking off for better pay off is precisely what Irish doctors are doing. Each year they have about 650 graduates and 650 emigrating doctors. French people are more patriotic! Perhaps working conditions are better in France too. I’ve seen articles that say Irish junior doctors are working 24 hour shifts which seems very scary- I wouldn’t want to be treated by someone 22 hours into his shift. I wouldn’t want to meet him on the roads on his way home either.

by Anonymousreply 137December 7, 2019 12:36 AM

IF you have good private health insurance in the US, you still have to fight with them to pay your doctors and medical facility. They always fuck up, purposely. It is your time and energy they are sucking on, evil bastards.

I went to a hospital in France, I receive a bill for ZERO, for nothing. In addition to no fee, I did not have to deal with my private health insurance either, which was pure health and heaven.

Listen to us, we can have a great health care system. I want to kick private health insurance companies out of my life and your for good. Let's do this!

by Anonymousreply 138December 7, 2019 12:42 AM

Education is free in Ireland? Even medical education?

by Anonymousreply 139December 7, 2019 12:44 AM

R139 Yes. If the family income is low enough even the living expenses will be mostly covered with a grant for several thousand every year. High earners won’t qualify for assistance but third level education is about €3,000 per year in fees.

by Anonymousreply 140December 7, 2019 12:51 AM

I assume it’s the same throughout Europe? The French guy above said it’s free there too.

by Anonymousreply 141December 7, 2019 12:52 AM

In Italy I had my appendix removed and a broken arm mended. Both were emergencies. I was given prom attention and the care was excellent. I was charged nothing.

by Anonymousreply 142December 7, 2019 12:57 AM

*prompt

by Anonymousreply 143December 7, 2019 12:58 AM

Not being charged anything. Can you imagine?

by Anonymousreply 144December 7, 2019 1:53 AM

R144 I was a resident. And no bureaucracy. I showed my ID and that was it. When I was discharged I simply left, they did everything for me. I didn't mention: a titanium rod was put in my broken arm. I was in the hospital for almost 2 weeks.

by Anonymousreply 145December 7, 2019 2:16 AM

R137 Maybe there are some emigrating doctors in France but I don't know anyone who did so it's probably not too many. I had no idea it was that bad in Ireland, this is crazy.

Working conditions in hospitals can be pretty tough, mainly because of lack of staff. We can do 24 hours shifts too, especially for those working in the emergency room, but that can change depending on the hospital. I've heard that some hospitals do 12 hours shifts, which is unusual but pretty cool.

As a medical student, it can be absolute hell. But still better than what it used to be. Interns have unionized and have managed to get new laws recently, like the mandatory rest after a 24 hour shift. It is not always respected but technically making an intern work more than 24h in a row is illegal. A week is legally supposed to be 48h but in reality it can go from 48 to 90+ hours depending on the work charge and how many 24 hours shifts there is.

For doctors who have their own clinic, work conditions can also be pretty hard since there are just too many patients. In fact, a lot of Polish doctors have immigrated here for work, especially in small towns and the countryside.

The number of positions available in med school has been recently increased because of this crisis, but since med studies are at least 9 years long, it will take a bit of time before there are enough doctors.

And yes, med school is basically free, but you have to pass a competitive exam in the first year. There's just about 500€ a year as registration fees. If your family income is too low you don't have to pay that and you can ask for a grant for living expenses. It's about 4 thousand euros a year maximum.

by Anonymousreply 146December 7, 2019 2:32 AM

people of TV keep on saying that Americans do not like when things are taken away from them. I do not think this is true. I want the receptionist that denies my health care bills and care kept away from me. I just want to deal with medical doctors. I do not eve want to deal with some loser health insurance rep, again.

Bernie Sander's Medicare for All bill is right on. We need a health care system. Not a CEO and receptionist who denies you health care system.

by Anonymousreply 147December 7, 2019 2:42 AM

It’s fascinating to read what the medical care is like abroad.

by Anonymousreply 148December 7, 2019 11:50 AM

Why is healthcare so high? Because all the people in the whole system want make money? Why? So they can afford private school for their kids when the publics are bad. So they can afford things? Why because shopping is the main Joy we have in America. Buying chemical laden plastic Chinese shit that we will dump later? Why? Because our social priorities don't ensure public schools are up to standard. Why? Probably because of race issues? Why? Because everyone drives in a car? Why because everyone is spread out? They don't walk. They're fat. Why? Because we're resting on the laurels of our past success. We defined ourselves as superheroes of WW2. We're paranoid about an attack but our military budget is twice an other nations.

Donald Trump is mostly wrong but isn't completely wrong in saying that Europe can shoulder some of the military police work for the rest of the world. We need to take care of ourselves and we can't do that when our money is wrapped up in these ridiculous developing world wars.

by Anonymousreply 149December 7, 2019 3:09 PM

R149, at the risk of going down a dirt road on the subject of arms, I will say we need a strong defense that isn’t based on the old business model of making defense companies rich. We are slated to buy thousands of F-35 planes—why?? The technology is already outdated and was made for styles of war fought years ago. An objective clean-sweep needs to be done. We cannot abandon our allies, but we need a sensible military designed to meet the threats of today.

by Anonymousreply 150December 7, 2019 5:39 PM

INSR90, what's the point of having a European insurance health card if everything is free in Europe?

by Anonymousreply 151December 7, 2019 5:55 PM

[quote]We are slated to buy thousands of F-35 planes—why??

Because it's welfare to the MIC.

by Anonymousreply 152December 7, 2019 5:58 PM

R151 The country that you are treated in bills the country of your residence for your treatment under the European Health Insurance Card scheme. There are lots of flaws in the administration of it though.

The UK pays out more than it receives even though they treat more people under the scheme. It's not billions though so nobody worries about it too much.

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by Anonymousreply 153December 7, 2019 6:21 PM

The main problem in the UK is that we don't have a method of billing for Emergency Care, the cost of running a system to establish one would probably cost 10x the possible gain.

by Anonymousreply 154December 7, 2019 6:32 PM

148 and many Americans call it socialism. Sure as hell beats American capitalism

by Anonymousreply 155December 7, 2019 8:53 PM

R45, Mayo are good in some, but not all areas. Furthermore, if you're a working person and don't have the 'right insurance' you will not get seen at a Mayo. The US system puts you at the mercy of the of your employer's choice of insurance plan.

Also, even the most high-end healthcare organizations (Mayo, Cleveland, NJH) can have many months long waiting periods depending on the illness.

Thirdly, Russian oligarchs and Saudi princes are extreme outliers and are not representative of 99.9% of Americans who require quality healthcare. Touting Mayo in the realm of healthcare is like touting the fact that there are multi-million dollar mansions in Bel Air when there are thousands of homeless sleeping in tents on skid row.

by Anonymousreply 156December 8, 2019 8:33 AM

R155 Right?

by Anonymousreply 157December 9, 2019 6:58 PM

Hey, the poster from Ireland. Do you know if you're old and you need to go to nursing home, and you own a house, do they make you sell the house first and take some of the $?

by Anonymousreply 158December 12, 2019 3:51 AM

It's interesting how as a tactic in the election the left in the UK is temporarily telling the truth about the NHS. The left wing media is refreshingly reporting that the NHS is a shocking horror story. They also say that the money pit just needs massive amounts of additional funding to make it right, rather than fundamental changes.

by Anonymousreply 159December 12, 2019 7:53 AM
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