Denver Livin’

Way overpriced.

This decades Portland

Wild extremes in weather

Is it easy to meet people there? I’ve lived in NY where I thought it was so easy to make friends. SF on the other hand was a wasteland - people were too woke with self righteousness. LA was easy enough but way too vapid.

Don't

Well,put it this way...when I left Denver in 1999 the apartment I was renting was $645 a month. That very same apartment is now $2650 a month. The influx of californians started in the late 90s and the friends I still have left there are all saying the same thing ,its pure hell now. Traffic,prices,crowds,all unbearable.

I grew up in the Denver area. As soon as I was able, I moved away. Nuff said.

And we held a celebratory party, R7.

I've been once. BORRRRRINNNNGGGG. Everyone's blond and snowboards and hikes.

You can be a part of the mile high club.

I was born there, moved away at 23, and eventually came back. The weather can't be beat. Mild winters, sunny most days (even cold days), not a ton of snow that sticks around all winter like Minneapolis. Nice people. Traffic isn't bad (though it isn't great either, just not L.A. bad). I've lived in multiple places across the country, and I think Denver is better than most.

R9 is correct that outdoor life is a big thing here. It seems like everyone hikes, mountain bikes, skis, etc. I don't do any of these things.

Pot is plentiful if you are into that.

The comments about being overpriced are true and then some. I'm renting until the next recession and then I'll buy.

I lived in Denver from birth 'til 18 before moving to NYC and DC (also Boston and London for just a couple of years each). Denver is the place people go who can't make it in Chicago. EVERYTHING is derivative there. It's like people are play-acting their way through life. I went back in 2018 for a faculty position at CU and lasted a year. CU was SELLING PhDs (yes, $$ for a doctorate) and no one cared from the Univ president on down to CCHE or the Lt. Governor. That sort of fraud is emblematic of metro-Denver: Nothing need be legitimate there because you aren't expected to actually be competent, intelligent, or anything else good.

R12 Yes! I grew up in Denver and have lived in NYC and San Francisco. I've always thought of Denver as a Podunk town pretending to be a hip, contemporary urban hotspot.

[QUOTE]VERYTHING is derivative there. It's like people are play-acting their way through life.

Completely agree. I've been all over the Southwest and the only place that seems authentic/cero bullshit is Albuquerque.

R12 how old are you?

I’ve sent a screen shot of your post to a friend who lives in Denver. I’m saying your sentiments are generally right, he’s saying you’re wrong.

We are wrangling about your age.

Anyone ever been to La Mirage? It looks ever so chic...

LOL! I was living in Denver during the Dynasty heyday, and we would all laugh at how Denver was depicted in that show, as if it was some big, glamorous, bustling cosmopolitan city. And we all imagined La Mirage was some dude ranch-type place way out in the Eastern plains.

Thanks DL!! I was thinking of going to visit there for a week or two to decide if I like it. What part of town do you all think would be the best to have as a homebase?

it seems they have Spring in winter and winter in Spring.

R18 Cheesman Park area and LoDo are the gayest areas in Denver.

I lived there about 15 years ago........and fucking hated it. And it’s become a shithole ever since they legalized marijuana.

It was expensive then and has only gotten worse. The people are (mostly) lame, it’s a very “mid-career” city for people on their way somewhere else, and it wins “Drunkest City” in America every other year. It is good for outdoor activities as long as it’s hiking, skiing, cycling, etc. If you prefer summer/water sports - forget it. It’s embarrassing what gets called a “lake” there.

I will say the weather is much better than you’d think and I did love the colors in the fall.

This sums it up nicely.

R22, I clicked on your link thinking it would be a photo of the brown cloud. Your picture is relevant too.

R23, I’d completely forgotten about that. I recall many long treks home from DIA (or, Nebraska as I called it for how far away it was) seeing the tops of the downtown buildings sticking up out of that smog. Just can’t bring myself to miss the place.

I left Denver in the early '80s and do not remember that. Did we have that brown cloud in the '60s and '70s?

Is Denver better than Seattle?

Does Seattle have a Casa Bonita?

God bless you, r27.

R28, you are most welcome! You will probably also appreciate that no other city in the world has a Blucifer, either.

I love it how insufferable annoying Type A people dislike Denver.

r30 is a perfect example of the type of failure attracted to Denver. Bravo, buddy.

I lived there for about 5 years in the mid 1990s. I had a very difficult job and very very difficult boss which maybe colored my views a bit but I didnt really care for it that much. The plus was I was on the road alot for my job and had the entire colo territory and often went to Apen and telluride etc. Outside west of denver it is very beautiful.

I had some close gay friends and close work friends and I cant really put my finger on exactly what rubbed me the wrong way. For one thing housing prices were really starting to escalate and considering it was Denver I thought it was ridiculous. I went out to bars quite a bit and the men were generally attractive. I guess I had lived in LA before that and it was a comedown somewhat which was probably part of th problem.

As long as you are not there, bro, I’m good, r32. Oh

The brown cloud hasn't been there since the early 90's R23.

Housing in Denver sucks. 15 years ago 1 bedroom apartments went for about 600 a month. Now the same ones are double that. Living in the city center is out of the question if you aren't wealthy or living with 5 other people. If you do live downtown, you won't be able to find parking if you drive. If you don't drive the transit system is unreliable and understaffed.

Traffic on the highway is a nightmare. If you learn the side roads, you can probably get to your location faster or at least in the same amount of time with a lot less stress.

Natives are initially aggressive toward anyone from another state. Especially California and Texas.

The gay scene is strange. There are a few gay bars, but nothing to write home about. They are also very niche. You have your bear bar, your leather bar, your drag bar, your twink bar, your cowboy bar, and your dance club. The bear and leather bars are the most friendly. Every bar is pretty clique-ish. Many of the younger gay guys don't even bother with the "gay" spaces and just go to LoDo straight bars.

On the other hand, there is a lot to do. The restaurant scene is great. There are a couple of art districts where you can do first Friday art walks or go see some absurdist community theater. Most major acts have a tour stop in Denver. If you are into sports, we have a thriving sports scene even when the teams lose. If you have an outdoor hobby you will fit right in. Anything from hiking, exploring, or even playing disc golf.

Pot is legal. People make a big deal out of it but anyone who lives in Denver is over it. It's just business as usual now and seeing a dispensary is no different than seeing a McDonalds.

R34 The brown cloud is coming back. Dumbass Republican governor from a few years back eased corporate restrictions and our do nothing legislature hasn't stepped up to put them back. It's really hazy every day.

To sum up, it's just another city. It's getting bigger, and there are pros and cons. If you like a modern metropolitan area where you can get to the wilderness in about an hour, then that's Denver.

The architecture is hideous - I don’t even know how to describe how ugly the houses are so just do a Google search and see for yourself. And yes, extremely overpriced for a city that offers nothing but ⛷, hiking 🥾 , and cycling 🚵‍♀️.

This gay friendly hottie moved to Denver recently (from L.A.)

And THAT ^^^^ is what killed Denver for the majority of people.

His Denver apartment tour =

Why he left L.A. =

What an insufferable twat

“Twat” is an archaic term

R35 is pretty close to the real deal.

It's on average much nicer weather wise than in the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic area, if you've lived or grown up there.

It does seem to be very heteronormative and very 35 and under. Drinking and outdoorsy stuff are the two big activities here. Much harder to find community if you are over 35 or LGBT. The bar scene is, as in most cities these days, rather anemic and focused on drugs.

The way Denver is built is both a blessing and curse. Not a lot of density, and you can be close to the city and feel like you're in a wooded area. But there's not a very big variation in housing stock (owning or renting) and many of the affordable places are outside of the city.

I don't hate it here, but I don't know that I'll be putting down roots here. I'm going to enjoy the ride while I can, though.

What are your priorities, OP?

R37/R39/R40 We really aren’t interested in this lame average straight guy. K/Thanx/Bye.

R44, speak for yourself

R44 Then simply ignore them.

It ain't that hard crybaby.

Who do you think you are R42? The Miranda Priestly of slang?

Go fuck yourself.

Mork and Mindy seemed to like living there.

That was set in Boulder, r48.

And I doubt there's a hoot of difference between the two cities R49

R50 I beg to differ.

Speaking of Denver housing, I came across the term “slot home” this week and had to look it up. It’s a thing there.

I love the chill, laid back, lowkey vibe of Denver. My kind of people.

[quote] Miss Patsy Ramsey of Boulder Colorado

If you're going to do it, please do it correctly

Heteronormative was a good word. Just not a very gay city. And just meh. A mediocre city that’s maybe cheaper than coastal cities. But more for straight millennials than gay. And not for eldergays - unless you’re a loner woodsman.

Never been there, but it sounds like the California of the Mid-West.

So what is the cool city now?

Nothing cool and affordable left.. I think we are at an inflection point where people are moving to Denver Nashville Philadelphia and second tier cities that are somewhat more affordable - as they all offer the basics of urban living and internet connection. The hot cities NY and LA and SF are so overpriced they are becoming staid and old. Curious what the next phase is. Or maybe a big real estate crash will change things. But I’ve seen so many “hot” new places follow same pattern of being overpriced, not sure any are left.

Where are the stats to support an influx of people to Philly? Yes, stars say people are Flocking to Denver. NAshville, Phoenix, Raleigh, Orlando, and Charlotte. But Philly?

R25 The "brown cloud" began to become an issue in the 1970s. They talked about it on the news all the time and no one knew what to do about it. I grew up in Arvada, and I remember driving up over the big hill on Wadsworth Boulevard and looking out over the city and seeing that brown layer hang over everything.

The cost of living is extremely high, OP. Make sure you get a high-paying job.

Where do y’all live? I want to avoid those places

On apartments.com it looks like there are some realistic rents there. I don’t know where S. Oneida Street is but you can get a 1 bedroom there for $980 to $1200.

r43 I'm a 44 year old self employed guy with several advanced degrees living in Vegas for the last decade for family reasons. I've really struggled here to find a solid group of friends who are educated, like the outdoors and have actual goals in life. Hookups are easy here, but that's not what I'm after. I was thinking of Denver because there's an outdoor scene and the people seem to be fairly put together (at least in comparison to Vegas). I've lived in SF, NY, DC, LA, London and other parts. Loved NY, DC and London, but need to be in reasonable proximity to Vegas. Thanks everyone for all the help!!!

Op / r64 I know one really great guy that moved to Denver about a year ago. He fits all the boxes your looking for: smart, educated, outdoorsy and an excellent human being. However, he has trouble meeting friends in the last year.

Palm Springs -- if you need t be close to Vegas

R66 the OP is 44 years old, not 84.

Unless the OP wants to prey on tourists exclusively , Palm Springs is out.

I have a friend from Denver who told me Denver is just Dallas with snow

Are brown people popular there like they are in Salt Lake?

[QUOTE]the OP is 44 years old, not 84.

What's the difference?

Why not be the apex predator (top) in Palm Springs? Everyone needs a boost to their retirement plan

It was all right.

Denver and Boulder are night and day R50.

Legal WEEd!!!! and srhooms!

I used to live right behind the Molly Brown house R72 . Much more humble inside and out than one would think given her emormous wealth.

The new trend is to live in smallish cities (between say 50K and 200K) with some nice amenities, and work remotely.

R75, when I lived there I only drove by it.

Considering the Titanic sank in 1912....and granted I don’t know the history of this home since.....compared to other properties in Denver it’s looking good! And keep in mind that wealth over 100 years ago looked much different than it does today.

Graceland, anyone?

I’ve been in Denver since 2016. So far, I like it. The Rocky Mountains are beautiful and Boulder is a great very small city. A lot of top companies have space in Boulder (Example: Google, ConAgra) , but, Boulder is ridiculously expensive. It’s like everywhere else though, has it’s good points and bad points

When I think of Colorado, I think of Rocky Mountain High by John Denver. Such a beautiful song and a beautiful state. Green space, nice parks, and a great museum and downtown.

Plus, we have the first openly gay governor:Jared Pollis.

Altitude sickness and 9 foot snow drifts. Plenty of bears if you like that type.

r60, my parents had a rental in Arvada....an old house on Ralston Road. They paid $6k for it in the 1970s and fixed it up. We've had tenants in it solidly for almost 50 years. My brother just sold it for $575k and is delivering my cut on Christmas. It's mind boggling that someone would pay over a half million for what is essentially a 1000 sf box in suburbia ... but there is no accounting for taste.

One of the reasons a lot of new residents have arrived is because it has some of the same things people like about California at a lower cost.

R64, Yes I'm a straight woman but agree with your assessment of the people in Vegas. Realize I must carefully scrutinize potential friends for common values.

R64 I think you'd enjoy Denver, based on your description.

Plus you'd be a quick flight from LV if needed.

R80 I probably grew up very close to your parents' house. My family lived off 80th between Simms and Kipling. My parents bought our house in the early 70s for $50,000. My mom sold it in 2017 for $600K.

[quote]If you're going to do it, please do it correctly

R54 fucked it up.

It's:

Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, Colorado.

If you're going to be a douche when you correct someone at least get it right.

My mom still lives in the house I grew up in off 76th @ Wadsworth in Arvada. My parents bought it in 1974. I have no idea how much it's worth but I know there's no equity because it's been refinanced a bunch of times.

My first apartment was in Arvada off of Olde Wadsworth & Robinson Way, I lived there for years until I moved to Capitol Hill in 98 to be gay.

R86 I always stayed around Capitol Hill when I lived in Denver. I loved that area !

R86 Where did you go to high school?

Pomona, R88. You?

Same here!

Class of 78.

R91 Class of 80! My brother was class of 79. We might know each other.

What part of Arvada did you grow up in?

Viz. Molly Brown, [R75], she was in lifeboat #6. They tried to put two seamen in the lifeboats, so somebody knew what the fuck and how the fuck to operate them (like plugging the hole in the bottom of the lifeboat that let the rainwater out). By the time #6 was lowered, they could only put one seaman in a lifeboat. Hitchens was put in #6. Hitchens was at the helm (the wheel thing) when the Titanic bump bump bumped into the iceberg.

Anyway, he was in major shock, I think, totally out of control, telling the occupants they were all going to die because nobody knew where they were. He couldn't tell how to steer a lifeboat or even wh. direction to steer in. One of the occupants, a wealthy society matron, pointed out the North Star. Hitchens, BTW, was one of the men on the bridge when Thomas Andrews, the architect of the Olympic Class liners, did his calculations and told the captain the ship had an hour, maybe more, before it would sink.

So, it's my guess Hitchens was out of his fucking mind with shock and fear, although he made it onto a lifeboat. Think of how you would feel, knowing everybody you'd sailed with was going to die in an hour?

Anyway, Molly was having none of his tirade and got up in his face. I don't know what words were exchanged, but Hitchens backed down and shut up. Molly and the other ladies, several of them famous society matrons, took over the rowing and manoeuvring of the boat until they were rescued after daylight.

Hitchens further endeared himself to the survivors by grabbing a massive amount of blankets to sleep on in RMS Carpathia's lounge, because there wasn't sufficient accommodation for the survivors to have their own rooms.

Anyway, Molly Brown may have been just as shocked as anybody as the sinking took place. Unlike many others, she held her wits about her and didn't fall to pieces.

I heard they got a lot of snow this week.

R94 What ARE you talking about?

R95 We did.

Denver is generally not as frigid as the Midwest but we've been told it's an unusually cold and snowy year this year.

R93 Off 80th, between Simms and Kipling.

The weather there can be wild. One day in October this year it was a record 83 one day and a record 13 the very next day.

R98 Lot's of natives in here it seems. I grew up in Westminster and moved to cap hill in about 2000. My first apartment was at 88th and Wadsworth and we used to pick up straight guys at Old Chicago on Sunday nights after drinking all day at the Foxhole. 90s/00s Denver was a lot better than what we have now.

I'm nearly an eldergay now, so I don't really do the bars or anything anymore. Plus, I've been partnered for over a decade.

R100 The Foxhole and Tracks were Denver's two greatest gay clubs. Sunday tea dances in the summer at the Foxhole were so much fun.

Your first apartment must have been in the Arbor Green area.

R100, was it Castlegate? Everyone I graduated with who moved out right away lived there at one time or another.

R102 Castlegate was on the Wadsworth side, and Arbor Green was on the 88th side. Castlegate, as I recall, were the brown shingled apartment buildings.

Well this little dialogue has taught me Denver is basically an overgrown small cowboy town.

[R96], why I was talking about fuckwads like you who've spent their lives doing absolutely nothing but finding the time to insult others. If I'd known your mother when she was pregnant I would've mailed her a fat pamphlet on legal abortion.

R104 then don’t ever come to Denver/Colorado. We don’t need anymore assholes

r106, Oh dear!

R105 Fuck yourself with a rusty, tetanus covered lead pipe, bitch.

Hey, R89, which teachers at Pomona did you have crushes on?

Mr. Talkin. Remember him?

Mr. Meyer too but he was too Jesusy.

As a relative newbie, I must ask the eldergays of Denver -

Where did one cruise back in the day?

I do remember Mr. Talkin - Language Arts.

I think everybody had a crush on Mr. Meyer. I didn't know he was Jesus-ey. When did that happen? Because I remember when he was moved from the Science Department to Boys' Gym after it was revealed he was screwing one of his female teen students.

I also had a thing for Mr. Miller the Chemistry teacher and Mr. Aden the art teacher. He had a big, blonde porn 'stache back in the day. :-)

R111 Cheesman Park was the #1 cruising spot for gays when I was living there. I imagine it still is.

R111 back in the day you cruised at the State Capitol. You’d drive around and around.

Mr. Meyer wore a pendant that said I Am Third which was sone reference to God first and Jesus second.

I remember Miller and Aden now. Klatt was hot in a nerd type of fashion.

thanks - I was at a store on 16th street mall and could have sworn someone cruised me. I didn't bite the bait, so to speak, but wondered if I'd somehow come across some indoor cruisy place. LOL

I remember when Meyer switched to gym class but don’t remember it being scandalous. I wanna know now who he was banging.

R117 I know who it was, and she was a total whore back in high school. I can't put her name on here, though, just in case. I will tell you she was in my graduating class - class of 1980. I think she was 17 when she banged him.

She's on Facebook these days, and she looks good, but still appears to be quite whore-ish. :-)

R110 have you been to any of the reunions? Class of 78 had their 40th last year But I skipped it. I’ve seen the pictures but I can’t tell who anybody is.

If she was in 80 I probably didn’t know her since I graduated in 78.

R117 The 16th Street mall is somewhat cruisy, too, but a little more covert.

R119 I only went to my 20-year reunion. That was enough for me. I still keep up with some classmates on Facebook and have seen some of the pictures from the various reunions. I don't recognize most people, either.

R115 I don't remember Meyer wearing that. Then again, my eyes were probably focused elsewhere. I do remember Mr. Klatt. Yes, kind of a hot nerd. I remember Mr. Aden used to wear a puka shell necklace!

For the Pomona and Arvada people on this thread, one of our Pomona classmates, Kristen Iversen (back then known as Kristen Anderson) wrote a NY Times Bestseller about growing up near Rocky Flats. The Andersons lived on my street. It's a great read. It'll scare you to death.

R120 She was pretty notorious, so you might know her name if you heard it. She was very mature looking for her age and had huge tits. And she knew how to use 'em.

Goodness, this little reunion is just precious!

rocky mountain HIGH

I’m loving the reunion, too! And that book looks very interesting - thanks!

Were her initials C. B.?

Anyway.....back to the matter at hand

R125 do you still live in CO?

I just now looked at R22's post and it is surprisingly accurate.

I've lived in Colorado Springs as well though, and while it is "lovely" the poster does NOT mention it is home to multiple hard-core religious organizations and is staunchly conservative.

Yes, the sign on 25 that announces "Focus On The Family - Next Exit" is a clue for everyone how staunchly evangelical it is there.

(Which means any adult bookstores, cruising spots or the like are booming there, I bet.)

R129 No. The first initial is "C," though.

R131 No, I left Colorado 32 years ago. Are you still in Colorado?

Oy - wish there was a DM option in DL. This is tiresome,

R136 Indeed.

Yeah R135. I live in Capitol Hill.

Yeah R135. I live in Capitol Hill.

There must be a way for you two old high school boys to meet up!

(That doesn't involve any of us hearing about it!)

More and more homeless and sketch by the day. Californians bringing stupid politics and policies with them are making the same problems reappear here.

R102 R103 It was Castlegate. And R104 it was a "overgrown small cowboy town" back in the 90s. It's not anymore. But there's no talking to someone who's idea of a community is probably a circuit party.

R135 I never really kept in touch with anybody from HS after graduation, I have a couple of them as FB friends but have never made an effort to reach out other than that. I was quite surprised just how many classmates still live in the Arvada area. I really thought most had moved at least out that town.

R100 here. And for the Arvada gays, by the time I was in HS in the 90s, Pomona had a reputation for having the highest STD rate for students in Colorado. I know they had a lot of teen pregnancies over there. I hung with mostly people from Westminster or Northglenn. That's when there was a thriving rave scene and everyone was bi. I still make jokes with some of my (now) straight friends about how many times I made out with them.

Cheeseman used to be a cruising area, but now it is completely family friendly. They patrol the area intensively. There isn't anywhere really cruisy like that anymore.

And R142 there have always been a lot of homeless here. The actual per capita is lower than it was back in the day. I remember having to navigate through homeless camps on cap hill just to get to my apartment in the early 00s. Dumbasses blame Californians, but it's the assholes from the midwest who really fucked things up. They are the ones who want some weird hipster lifestyle but can't afford CA or NY. So they came here and their small town brains can't drive in traffic or weather. But keep on with your conservative talking points asshat.

To give natives an idea of my age, I am old enough to remember the original Triangle but young enough to never have gone in the basement.

They reopened the Triangle in the original location but it's a fucking FERN bar. Still gay but it's the original Triangle's pussified cousin.

And the Wrangler moved out of downtown to 5 points about five years ago but closed earlier this year. JR's closed a LONG time ago.

I miss the Wrangler

Someone explained to me the homeless issue in Denver is the result of being the biggest city within a very large radius - so “lost”, troubled, abused runaways and mentally ill gravitate there. It made sense. Definitely an issue - like CA. Has nothing to do with politics - homeless don’t research “best cities” to live in like newly graduated millennials.

That and the legalized pot.

History lesson: In the 60s a whole slew of midwestern types moved to the Denver area. Some of it had to do with the large military presence here (Lowry, Fitzsimmons, Buckley). A lot of it had to do with the Nixon economy and how it was pushing people out of rural areas to make a living. With that population boom came industry, growth, and pollution. These were mostly white people.

In the 70s Denver was quickly becoming the industrial hub of the wild west. Disenfranchised African Americans came to get away from southern racism and to work. The Hispanic community were enticed to come here by construction companies looking for cheap labor.

And then everything went to shit in the 80s. Reagonomics tore apart the small businesses and corporations swooped in. Lots of people lost their jobs. Unemployment was sky high. White people blamed everyone else, and the minorities flocked to places like the north side, five points, or out to Aurora. Denver became a multicultural city where the cultures didn't interact. That's also when all the conservative types started blaming California, because that's where they thought all those minorities came from.

The 90s started the road to economic recovery. Things were getting better, the Denver area was growing again. Only this time, instead of white midwesterners, we saw a boom in Hispanic, African American, and Asian populations. And once again, anytime something went wrong, people blamed California.

Get to the past couple decades. While the recession still had its effects, Colorado didn't fare as bad as other parts of the country. Growth continued, and the Denver area was one of the first places in the country where it felt like we made it through the economic crisis and could move on. A lot of it thanks to legal pot. Still, anytime something bad happened, they blamed California.

I have heard conservative people blame California for Denver's woes my whole life. The funny part is, demographically, more people move here from Texas than California. So, when I hear older people talk about "the homeless" or "Californians", I know they really mean minorities. It's a bunch of white people scared of any change, even if it helps.

Interesting R150. Always wondered why Denver exists - except for ski resort access.

Denver exists mostly because the stagecoaches and then the railroads came here and it was a relatively flat space in the "front rage" (foot of the mountains).

That's old timey Denver. Modern Denver was built on the military, aerospace, and IBM.

R153 I was talking more about how it originally came to me, more answering R151.

For example, most old east coast cities were strictly access to water or rail for industry.

Denver was founded around the start of the Civil War because some people found gold in the streams coming out of the Rocky Mountains there. (The south Platte River, and Cherry Creek). People rushed there, but there wasn't really very much gold there. It would have probably been abandoned, but much more significant gold deposits were found in the high mountains to the west. Those high mountain gold camps needed supplies, and Denver was better situated to receive supplies from the East Coast or Midwest than places higher up in the mountains. For about 40 years, it existed primarily as a supply and transportation center. First there were supplies brought in by stagecoach. The townspeople knew they needed a railroad line to stay in business and they also knew that there were no possible rail routes across the mountains in Colorado, which are too high. (Even today, the highway mountain passes in Colorado are around 10,000 feet, much too high in altitude for a railroad to climb economically). The railroad route from the east coast to the west coast was going to be routed through Wyoming, where there were passes at 7000 feet elevation. Denver figured out that it could connect with a rail line in Kansas and have that line head north at Denver to join the Union Pacific in Cheyenne, Wyoming. It became a hub for supply distribution all along the front range of the Rockies, out into the nearby plains, and up into the mountain gold and silver camps.

R144 Yes, I'm surprised at how many of my former classmates have not only not left Colorado, but haven't even left Arvada. I'm also surprised at how many of them have become loony right wing Jesus freaks, because they certainly weren't angels in high school!

Really, R156? That doesn’t surprise me. Everybody thought Pomona kids were so well behaved and nice because of the neighborhood but most of them were assholes.

R157 Yes, most were assholes. That's why I'm surprised to find so many of them have become such devout Christians. There was one guy in my graduating class - big football stud, but also a huge man whore and drunk. A couple of years ago, he sent me a Facebook invitation to the church he now preaches in and asked for a donation. I laughed out loud.

Thank you R155.

I am scared to drive on the mountain pass that would take me from Denver up to near Dillon and Breckenridge. I hear it's really pretty there but haven't got my courage to go that high yet.

A lovely and informative thread taken over by two boring assholes . WHO CARES bitches ?!?

Ah, there's the DL we know and love at R160

When I went to the 20th Pomona reunion we were supposed to tour the school but that fell through.

The SUBURBS?

Well, I never in all mah life......

Ugh Pomona, Arvada, blah, blah, blah.

Last time I went to Breckinridge, I got altitude sickness. Made the mistake of not staying in Denver for the night to acclimate before going higher. It was scary. Fortunately the oxygen bar helped until I was able to get back down to Denver.

I got altitude sickness going over the 11.000 foot passes in Colorado. Dizziness, headache, nausea. (We got out at a rest stop somewhere up there, and that's when I felt it). Once we descended into Denver it was all fine I felt the same when I went hiking at the Jungfraujoch in Switzerland, which was about the same elevation. .I'm not a skier, but if I were, I'd make sure to arrive the day before and just stay in bed in my hotel room for a full day before I attempted anything physically strenuous.

R164-R165=pussies

R164 Well, thank God you interrupted the boring Pomona-Arvada discussion with your riveting story of getting altitude sickness.

Where is the COCK in Denver?

I hate Denver, and I’m not sure why. I travel a lot for work and it, along with Houston, are my least favorite cities. I’ve never felt less safe in a city. Maybe it’s all the homeless...but I don’t feel that unsafe in SF or other places with large numbers of homeless. Can’t put my finger on it...just don’t like it’s vibe. I have to go again in March and I’m dreading it.

My sister in law partly grew-up there. Her family had money from having been founders of one of the department stores. Anyway, she never stopped talking about like it was the center of the universe. When I finally got around to visiting on a work trip, I just couldn't get the point. The location is great in terms of scenery but the city--some nice inner areas, lots of ugly sprawl and a downtown filled with drunk and/or burned out homeless white guys---Seattle without water, except Seattle has an interesting, more compact inner area or perhaps a less pretentious version of Portland. Regardless, pretty unimpressive.

R169 - I agree. There is kind of a Ted Kaczinski vibe I get with Denver. Not very friendly, rugged solitary mountain man mentality and lots of guns. I thought pot might have chilled it, but just kind of added a layer of scuzzy, sketchy homeless hipsters with no ambition.

Here's the thing about the homeless in Denver. It's not like other cities where it's widespread. The reason you see the homeless a bit more is because they are concentrated into specific areas. In warm weather they spread out a bit, but for the most part the homeless congregate in certain places. If you are from out of town and see a lot of homeless, I bet you were near Civic Center Park or Coors Field.

And the whole pot brought homeless hipsters thing? Yeah that's just a conservative talking point and shows me you have never been here, or you were here on a layover and never left the airport R171. Same thing with the "mountain man mentality" and "lots of guns". Unless your idea of mountain men with guns is Karen and her posse getting Voodoo Doughnuts on Colfax after brunch.

I’ve never seen such a concentration of unwashed, dreadlocked, homeless looking hipsters as on Colfax. Except maybe the Haight in SF in the 90s. I must have missed the Karen’s in the multiple times I’ve stayed in the neighborhood - except a few at Sassafrass on the weekend.

R109 How many Pomona-ites are on this board, anyway? Class of '79 here. The hottest teacher for me was Mr. Andrade.

I was class of 78, R174. I had Andrade a couple of times. He never did it for me, he was too Ron Jeremy-ish.

R175 LOL! I didn't know who Ron Jeremy was in high school, but yeah, now that you mention it, there's a resemblance. Now if Mr. Andrade was packing what Ron Jeremy is...

Was Mr. Robertson teaching when you were there? He was the psych teacher? He had a Tom Selleck vibe about him.

R175 I remember a Mr. Roberts, not Robertson, who taught Social Studies. Same guy?

R173 Colfax is gentrified now. The area where Sassafrass is, right near the Capitol, is the least gentrified, but it's still tame compared to what it was 20 years ago. And the only reason you see those dreadlocked hipsters is because of the Grateful Dead bars owned by some multimillionaire. They are trust fund suburban kids acting like they are slumming it.

No, R178, it was Robertson.

R180 I don't remember him, no.

R181 he was very handsome. He dated the underage daughter of one of my across the street neighbors while he was teaching and she was a senior. I saw him pick her up at the house once.

Just spent 10 years in Denver and then moved back to the Midwest for personal reasons. My impressions:

The lack of humidity and mosquitos and the abundance of sunshine are very positive things. But for a city that is guaranteed to have snow, it has no clue how to clear streets.

If you are a sports nut and/or love to ski, you will find lots of things to do. Ditto if you're into climbing and hiking. If not, you will have more of a problem making friends who won't bail on you if a better offer comes along.

If you work in tech, you will be able to find a job. If not, your search will be longer. Whatever you do, don't think you can sell real estate because the market is terrible -- almost impossible to find a starter home and very much a seller's market -- and there are about 50,000 realtors hovering in the metro area.

The scenery can be gorgeous but the architecture is ugly. Most of the homes are boring foursquares or bungalows and there's no real diversity in areas. The downtown area is nothing special, either.

The more gay areas like Cap Hill also have big crime problems and homeless issues. I lived on a nice street near Cheesman Park but people were still carjacked and held up at gunpoint. And nobody cruises at Cheesman anymore.

The gay bars are dying. The Wrangler was the most well-known gay bar and it closed a year and a half ago. You'd go in there on a Saturday night and unless there was a special event going on, it was deserted. The original Eagle closed several years ago when its building was sold for redevelopment and an attempt to reopen by new owners failed within months. Daddies, a newer entry, didn't last two years. Trade and Gladys, which are catty-corner to each other and have the same ownership, do okay but not great. Trade is a leather/bear/underwear night/beer bust kind of place -- anything to get a crowd in. Gladys is its drag show/showtunes cousin. I would say the atmosphere is pretty cliquish at the bars, too. It took me a while to feel comfortable when I first moved to the area and if you are over 40, good luck. Millennials rule in Denver.

I've been gone a few months now and thought I would miss it more than I am. I guess what I realized is, if you take away the scenery and the weather, you're not left with much that's exciting or distinctive.

R182 Geez. Seems Pomona was a hotbed of activity for teachers preying on underage girls.

Trust me, the two girls referenced in those posts were WHORES.

R185 Well, yeah, but weren't there rules about teachers not fucking students, especially those under the age of consent, even back in 1978?

No, R186. There wasn't.

R183 - exactly what my opinion has been even though I only visit regularly, despite R172 denial. The gay area and Colfax St is sketchy and seemingly unsafe. And the gay scene is blah for a city with so many young people. Unless you like skiing, I see no reason to live there. Maybe better for straight guys.

R183 and R188 I lived in the capitol hill area for about 15 years. I never heard of a single "carjacking" in all that time. Did people get their cars broken into? Sure. You get that in any city center. Same goes for people being held up at gunpoint. That type of stuff really didn't happen on the hill that often, and when it did it was major news. You are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime living in the suburbs. That's just a fact.

And the reason no one cruises at Cheeseman anymore? Because there are too many family gatherings, company picnics, volleyball tournaments, and straight people in general. It's now your average family-friendly park with a lot more lighting. And it has been for about 10 years.

I'm not saying things are perfect in Denver. The place can be boring. The gay scene is bitchy and sort of sad with most of the most tenured bars closing in the past couple years. And as for hobbies, If you aren't into outdoorsy stuff, it may not be the right place for you.

I'm also a Denver native and have seen the city change a lot in the past 20 years. Gentrification happened. A lot of gentrification happened. Capitol Hill, Colfax, Uptown, and City Park are the land of millennial families, not the cool city center neighborhoods they used to be. So unless your definition of "sketchy" is suburban white kids or herds of girls with starbucks cups, I'm going to continue to call out your BS.

I just this second read that the Downtown Broker closed in 2017. Had no idea.

How many Denver DL-ers here remember the era of Tracks and The Foxhole? Now those were good gay times!

R191 I started going to Tracks when I was 19. I knew most of the staff and still talk to some of them on occasion. I actually thought my little gay world was torn apart when they closed and didn't open in a new location right away as promised. I used to hang out in the greenhouse room mostly, or upstairs in VIP. I was there afterhours with the staff watching the news when Princess Diana died. For a large chunk of my young life I saw Tracks as a gateway to another world, an escape from the suburban monotony that was Denver.

Foxhole Sundays were dangerous. I don't know how many times I started drinking at 3p and ended up driving my drunk ass over the Compound after that party died down. I loved that it was the only bar in Denver where gay men and lesbians could coexist as equals.

That was the golden age of Denver. Big enough to have a thriving gay scene, small enough to still be accepting to everyone. I think JRs and it's "stand and model" twink bar status was the beginning of the elitism we still see in the gay scene.

R192 no matter where I started the night,I always ended up at the "Dog pound" ! I cant believe no one has mentioned Charlies yet . Granted I loathed country music,but I had some grand times at Charlies nonetheless. I still have a shirt I bought there in 1990 ! A very loud,vulgar country western shirt.Denver in 1990 was a fabulous place,and it saddens me to hear now the place I loved and thrived in is no more.

R192, your JR stand and model remark reminded me of this.

How generic--in any city with a few gays, there was always a Tracks (or Trax or Traxxx) and some variation on Charlie---usually Uncle Charlie.

The lezbos took over Denver Charlie’s.

The Denver Tracks had a direct connection to the DC original through ownership and management. Denver Charlie's, if I remember right, was the original and Phoenix and Chicago came after.

The dude who was collecting twinks was creepy. Crumpler would brag about it when he went out to the Eagle while his twinks recruited across the street at Tracks on Saturdays.

I remember a similar story back in the late 90s there was another one of these houses in cap hill. The guy hosted parties and had like 5 or 6 dudes living with him in a mansion on Humboldt. They ran a porn site and claimed they were vampires, no joke. I met a guy at Compund one night who told me the guy who ran the house actually lived in Texas and came up every other weekend. Dudes who broke the rules disappeared. They were forced to drink each other's blood. I know this sounds like EST, put I that's almost too stupid to make up.

A friend of mine remembers the Crumpler boys. They acted like their shit didn't stink and the made sure you saw the tattoo. And every single one of them were useless human beings, they didn't have a single redeeming quality.