Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

No one has ever accused anyone from Alabama of being smart. But you're an idiot. Natalee was 18. Get your facts straight before shooting off your big fat mouth

And that story about your mom screams that you are a loser

R1, well I'm still alive and thriving and Natalee is not.

So there you go.

Wasn’t it a class trip, basically? It’s not like she was sent out there on her own, blindfolded...

My class trips were to places like The Smithsonian, Colonial Williamsburg not frigging Aruba!

Word.

No one is to blame except that psychopath Joran van der Sloot. As a parent, you'd probably feel comfortable letting your grown son or daughter attend as part of a class trip; usually there's safety in numbers.

Remember, this type of crime happens in the United States, too.

The worse that can be said about Natalee is that she was not very bright to go off with some guy she just met. What I remember most is her mom finding a TV camera nearly 24/7.

[quote]Seriously, what kind of parent lets their 17 year old kid go to a party island to drink, gamble, etc... and NOT expect there to be trouble?

[quote] My mother would never have even entertained the idea of allowing me to do this.

[quote]When I was barely 18 and going to college over 3000 miles away, she made sure to travel on the plane with me and make sure I was settled before leaving me behind.

Natalee Holloway was 18 at the time she disappeared. There were 7 chaperones and 123 other students were with her.

Your mother was obviously extremely trusting because the moment she got on the plane and flew away, you could easily have started binge drinking with your new and unfamiliar friends. True, Holloway was drinking excessively by all reports, as were all of the other people, but at least she knew these other people.

As has been demonstrated by his subsequent actions, the guy is a serial predator.

If you're going to blame the victim, Holloway is more to blame than her mother. Holloway graduated with honors, was a member of the national honor society, and was scheduled to attend the University of Alabama on a full scholarship. This would seem to suggest that it would not be unreasonable for her mother to think she would act responsibility on the trip. It's not like she was going with two friends without any adult supervision (though later the claim is that "Jodi Bearman, who organized the trip, stated, "the chaperones were not supposed to keep up with their every move" - which sounds more like self-preservation and avoiding a lawsuit.).

Oh geez, OP. I fear what you think of the thousands of American college kids who study abroad each year.

R7, she was on camera as much as possible to make sure that people continued to be on the lookout for her daughter. At that point, really the only thing she could do was to try to maintain a high level of awareness about the case.

I watched the report on 20/20 last night, and I was surprised to see multiple reporters reveal that Joran had contacted them to sell information. Then after he did an interview and got paid, he'd send them an email that amounted to "Oops, I lied." He's a compulsive liar, and it seems like he still enjoys playing with Beth's head by promising to reveal the whereabouts of her daughter's remains.

What I don't understand: according to reporters, he's worried about being extradited from the Peru prison system to the US prison system? Can US prisons be worse than prisons in Peru?

Didn't the second (or third) ex husband claim Natalee's death was the best thing to ever happen to a media whore like Beth?

You have to admit Beth does love the camera and attention.

When Joran was finally arrested, she hopped her ass on a flight to Peru faster than you can say Nancy Grace! The second victim's father was like "Why the fuck are you here?" as she tried to make his daughter's murder all about her.

No one deserves to be murdered no matter how stupid they are, even an extremely idiotic person like OP.

Who said she deserved to be killed?

But she was pretty dumb.

[quote] What I don't understand: according to reporters, he's worried about being extradited from the Peru prison system to the US prison system?

Peru essentially does not carry out capital punishment. I guess he fears if he gets convicted in the US, he'll be executed.

[quote] Can US prisons be worse than prisons in Peru?

No. Peruvian prisons have some of the harshest conditions in this part of the world. Van der Sloot is being held in Challapalca prison, a maximum security prison which sits at an altitude above 15,000 feet. It's geographically isolated and freezing, with temperatures regularly dipping down below -0 F at night (and trust me, they don't provide central heating). There are regular outbreaks of tuberculosis amongst prisoners there. Van der Sloot was also stabbed by a fellow inmate some time ago and there were photos floating around the internet of his scars. So no, he is not having a nice time of it at all.

The only reason I can think of that he wants to stay there is because he was sentenced to 28 years, and if he survives his time, he will get out -- Peru does honor their sentencing and doesn't tack on additional 'time.'

[quote] What I don't understand: according to reporters, he's worried about being extradited from the Peru prison system to the US prison system?

Peru essentially does not carry out capital punishment. I guess he fears if he gets convicted in the US, he'll be executed.

[quote] Can US prisons be worse than prisons in Peru?

No. Peruvian prisons have some of the harshest conditions in this part of the world. Van der Sloot is being held in Challapalca prison, a maximum security prison which sits at an altitude above 15,000 feet. It's geographically isolated and freezing, with temperatures regularly dipping down below -0 F at night (and trust me, they don't provide central heating). There are regular outbreaks of tuberculosis amongst prisoners there. Van der Sloot was also stabbed by a fellow inmate some time ago and there were photos floating around the internet of his scars. So no, he is not having a nice time of it at all.

The only reason I can think of that he wants to stay there is because he was sentenced to 28 years, and if he survives his time, he will get out -- Peru does honor their sentencing and doesn't tack on additional 'time.'

^Sorry for double post!

[quote] The worse that can be said about Natalee is that she was not very bright to go off with some guy she just met.

I've done this before and feel lucky nothing tragic ever happened to me.

At some point, you have to give your children some freedom. That's what happened here. With a tragic ending.

Interesting that Beth hooked up with John Ramsey who may, or may not, been involved in his own daughter's death.

With a stupid name like Natalee, the kid never had a chance.

Parents, #LearnFromThis

What if instead of Natalee Holloway, the Eastland School for Girls planned a trip to Aruba and Joran had met up with Natalie Green?

[quote]Holloway graduated with honors, was a member of the national honor society, and was scheduled to attend the University of Alabama on a full scholarship.

Yeah, but that's on the Alabama scale, so she basically is Special Ed in a state with educational standards.

She was not dumb. She did the exact same thing that hundreds of thousands of high school and college kids do every weekend. It's the exact thing that US culture tells us we're supposed to want to do in our late teens and early 20s: escape from parents' watchful eyes and "party hearty" (i.e. get drunk and worse) with our friends. She just happened to do it in an area where there was a psychopathic predator on the roam.

[quote] What if instead of Natalee Holloway, the Eastland School for Girls planned a trip to Aruba and Joran had met up with Natalie Green?

Natalie Green would have sliced and diced Joran, hog-tied him. Then Jo would have finished him off, dead.

I just had another one of my brilliant ideas...

...castration!

Thanks for the info, R15. I believe that his U.S. prison sentence would be based on the crimes of extortion (asking Beth for money for information about the location of Natalee's remains); he'd probably be in a low security prison for that. They didn't have enough evidence to charge him for Natalee's murder, and I don't know if they can use the second murder case as evidence in Natalee's case.

I'm in Aruba as I type this. Beautiful, safe little island, filled with tourists from all over the world. Unfortunately, Natalee was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could've, and does, happen anywhere. Men are fucked.

Also, I saw on the 20/20 report, that Joran is married. Apparently some woman was visiting her relative at the prison, encountered Joran and fell for his charms. And she's given birth to his daughter. What's she going to tell that girl about her dad? Unbelievable!

[quote]Holloway graduated with honors, was a member of the national honor society, and was scheduled to attend the University of Alabama on a full scholarship.

[quote]Yeah, but that's on the Alabama scale, so she basically is Special Ed in a state with educational standards.

Yes, but I wasn't using that as proof of Natalee's intelligence, but of why OP's thesis was wrong about her mother. Based on her relative accomplishments and hard work, as noted, it would not be unreasonable for the mother to think that Natalee would be responsible on the trip - addressing OP's question "what kind of mother...?"

R27, yes. So the US is not the only country where mousy fraus write fan letters to and marry convicted killers in prison! Joran's bride below:

R29, hybristophilia is universal.

Did he ever confess to Natalee's murder?

Considering that Natalee was a passably pretty, blonde WHITE girl, the media wasn't going to just let the story die. Her mother didn't need to chase down every camera she could fine. I get that Beth was distraught, but after a certain point, her camera whoring came off as more than a little unseemly

I bet it just eats Beth up that the Kalpoe brothers got off scott free.

R33, whatever happened to those brothers anyway?

R33, if I were Beth, It would annoy the fuck out of me. I once saw saw the Goldman family (from the OJ Simpson case) make an appearance on a talk show (I think it was Oprah). And someone in the audience asked the father, "Why do you just let go of OJ and live the rest of your life?" Uh, well, that's hard to do when part of the center of your existence has been taken away...for no good reason at all...and the person who did it is still out there, running around free.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]Seriously, what kind of parent lets their 17 year old kid go to a party island to drink, gamble, etc... and NOT expect there to be trouble?

Late bloomers.

Back when I had cable, I watched "Prison Wives" on the "ID" channel. IMO, entertaining & fascinating. I really don't think "hybristophilia" is the only reason for these prison marriages. A lot of it is a lonely woman getting manipulated by a man in prison. There was one couple where the guy in prison was kind of good-looking. If he were not in prison, there would be no way he would have married his "prison wife."

R38, I can see that. Still can't believe his wife went the extra step and had his baby!

Ted Bundy got married and had a child while in prison in Florida - and he killed 50 or whatever.

At least you know where he is at night!

Meh, OP.

I had insanely strict parents, but went on student exchange to Berlin in the 1990s as a teenager. I spent most of my time clubbing.

I don't think Joran is going to survive 20+ years in that particular prison. It's just not conducive for humans to survive under those conditions -- the altitude, disease, or mental illness will get him, if not other inmates. There was already a video of him inside the prison and he looked disoriented and worse for the wear.

R39, This is the couple I was talking about from "Prison Wives." Annika and Anthony (convicted killer).

[quote] Can US prisons be worse than prisons in Peru?

Presumably if you have money you can buy yourself a relatively comfortable life in prison in Peru. Doesn't he have a wife who visits or lives with him? That kind of thing is not possible in the US prison system.

R45, that was true of the prison where Joran was being held at before -- Castro Castro. It's in Lima, so his wife was able to visit him all of the time and he enjoyed many perks, including access to a cellphone, online gambling, and warm temperatures. When secret footage emerged that he was enjoying a comfy existence, they transferred him to Challapalca, which is the worst possible place you can end up in Peru. It's really sort of like Alcatraz, except three times colder; built for terrorists and murderers. Nobody has ever successfully escaped, although many have tried. Relatives can only visit on the weekends, and the prison is hours away from the nearest town. For Joran's wife to visit him, it's a whole multi-day ordeal. Amnesty International has been trying to get this prison shut down for years now.

So trust me, rest assured, Joran is not living his best life right now.

But what does Momma's mussy think of Joran's cagemeat?

Beth has indulged in a significant amount of cosmetic procedures. She really looks different.

R47, Dutch men rarely disappoint in height and length. Momma would have to hedge her bets with this one though -- there's at least a 50% shot he'd end up killing her...

R25, evidence or lack thereof aside, how could Joran be charged in the US with Natalee’s murder? It was committed on foreign soil. What US court would have jurisdiction?

R25: “ The United States may assert jurisdiction over the conduct of U.S. citizens abroad, and over the conduct of others against U.S. citizens abroad” “ passive personality authorizes states to assert jurisdiction over offenses committed against their citizens abroad. Here jurisdiction is based on the nationality of the victim”

Didn't Joran's mother finally disinherit him? I think she stood by him but after the second girl, she pretty much washed her hands of him.

[quote] My class trips were to places like The Smithsonian, Colonial Williamsburg not frigging Aruba!

Natalee lived in one of the wealthiest suburbs in the state, possibly the US. Tons of spoiled rich kids.

[quote]Natalee lived in one of the wealthiest suburbs in the state, possibly the US. Tons of spoiled rich kids.

Yeah. My class trip was getting to go out to the Ice Cream truck one day when it passed by. Oh! The memories.

Beth is a huge social climber who encouraged Natalee's friendships in the A-list social circles at her high school.

Aruba is undoubtedly safer than any of the top North American spring break locations (Miami, Daytona Beach, Cancun, etc.) in terms of crime. Aruba is often referred to as the safest place in the Caribbean. If you've ever been there, though, it's nuts how calm and serene the one side of the island is (as far as the ocean goes) and the other is dangerously choppy and remote. The rough side always gave me the creeps. Lots of places to dispose of a body. Arikok National Park takes up 20% of the island. Again, lots of places to get rid of someone.

R56 I don't think many will consider Aruba an "unsafe" destination. The disappearance of Natalee Holloway officially is a missing person case, it's not an violent robbery, beating , rape or murder case on file. That made a difference here, and there ain't many other "Natalees" went missing before or after her. So her case really was just a very unfortunate incident, she met the wrong person at wrong time, which could happen to anyone at anywhere.

Man, Beth's face looks like a Shrinky Dink, or maybe a bad "Nailed It" project. Tone it down, sister.

Didn't one of the other guys involved in the cover up actually spill about what happened? I think it involved Daddy Van der Sloot moving the body at one point.

[quote]r38 Back when I had cable, I watched "Prison Wives" on the "ID" channel. IMO, entertaining & fascinating. I really don't think "hybristophilia" is the only reason for these prison marriages. A lot of it is a lonely woman getting manipulated by a man in prison. There was one couple where the guy in prison was kind of good-looking. If he were not in prison, there would be no way he would have married his "prison wife."

That series is mind boggling. How damaged and rejected must one be to marry someone doing a life sentence?? Not to mention, one of the husbands comes across as GAY. (Which brings up the issue, do these wives think their husbands are celibate in prison... for decades?)

These women must just be a bottomless pit of need - -

At least we can take solice in the fact that she is in heaven enjoying eternal life with the Lord.

R50: Dutch-Aruban legislation an jurisdiction, as the island is a country within the Kingdom of The Netherlands.

[quote]At least we can take solice in the fact that she is in heaven enjoying eternal life with the Lord.

Or in some Middle-Eastern jihadi's sex concubine.

Sex slaves are real, people!

There was also this moment, when Beth Holloway bribed her way into Castro Castro prison (not a difficult thing to do in this particular prison) to speak directly to Joran.

Ugh, murderers should be sterilized, no need to carry on their genes.