Reagan--Before and After

I didn't vote for Reagan in '80, but was happy he won. I voted for him in '84. Growing up in the 60s and 70s, there was so much economic unstability Reagan promised to fix that, and he did. We've never had double digit inflation and double digit interest rates since.

Then, there's the hard truth. The rest of Reaganomics was nonsense. None of it worked. We went from a mild budget deficit to an economy crippling debt and still run huge budget deficits during expansion years. This makes no sense at all. We'd be better off now letting inflation come back to devalue the dollar to pay off our foreign debt. There'd be several very painful years (stagflation, high unemployment) to get the debt pared down.

Both parties have sold their souls, or what little they had, to finance vast public debt projects. That's Reagan's legacy.

Wow R1 you know your onions!

I definitely noticed an uptick in racism. Jokes that people would have been too abashed to repeat in the 70s were "funny" again.

All I remember is 1) you couldn't handle a raw chicken full of salmonella AFTER Reagan deregulation, 2) Rare hamburgers and eggs dangerous AFTER Reagan deregulation, 3) Informericals all over TV AFTER Reagan deregulation, 4) Next to nothing in my paycheck AFTER massive Reagan tax cuts and federal debt

"We've never had double digit inflation and double digit interest rates since..."

That's because Republican economist Paul Volcker - appointed by Jimmy Carter to chair the Fed - raised interest rates by double digits to conquer inflation from 1979 to 1982 or so. His term overlapped Reagan's first years and Reagan reappointed him. We went into a 10% unemployment recession, then interest rates were lowered and the economy came back. Many blame Reagan for that recession and credit Reagan for the 1980s economic rebound from inflation. Totally undeserved, everything was in place before Reagan took the oath of office in Jan 1981.

I didn't vote for that motherfucker Reagan and am NOT happy he was president for eight years.

The term "conspicuous consumption" perfectly encapsulates the 'Reagan Eighties.'  Americans strived to live like the pages of Vanity Fair and Town & Country.  McMansions became popular as did Rolex watches, Mont Blanc ink pens, excessive gold jewelry on both men and women, designer label clothing, flashy sports cars, fur coats, fully beaded or sequined evening gowns with shoulder pads by Nolan Miller and Bob Mackie...even underwear became branded.

If you're curious about the Reagan era's impact on human/gay rights simply watch 'And The Band Played On.'

A lot of that overspending and consumer debt, R6, came about because of credit cards. Credit cards had been around for a couple of decades, but not everyone accepted them. People spent what they could afford because the bill was due now or at the end of the month. With most EVERY merchant accepting payment with credit cards, they upped prices to accommodate the fees, got their money for the purchase, and the consumer owed the bank, not them. And people over spent over spent over spent.

R1, I don't know where you lived, but the 1960s were economically stable and prosperous where I was. The breakdown came in the 70s, and there were major factors that had nothing to do with and were not fixed by Reagan's policies.

R7 I grew up in what is now considered the midwest, although it was legally segregated until the mid 1960s. We had large manufacturing which went bust along with the airlines. While never a prosperous area, it entered into an economic spiral and has never recovered.

What R5 said. The recovery after 1982 was mainly due to Reagan's massive borrowing and spending, which, combined with massive tax cuts for corporations and the rich, gave us the spiraling national debt we still enjoy today.

Oh, and yes, the 80s became very trashy and vulgar: the tackiness of the 70s turbocharged with credit. Acid-washed jeans and Donald Trump emblematize that era.

Comparing the Reagan era and afterward to the 70s, the changes I noticed were that people became more more optimistic, ambitious, industrious and confident. The 70s were a time of the "malaise", when problems seemed intractable and stagflation and strikes were the norm. The strength of the military and our foreign policy was in decline and nuclear war was always close at hand. The 80s were a time of huge change away from that.

Do you guys think that if the Reagan Revolution never happened, we would have healthcare on par to what European countries have? All the way back to Truman, democrats have considered universal healthcare but those plans seem to have been watered down significantly after "Hilary care" was rejected.

The democratic party not fully standing behind Carter did not help matters.

R1: You better be straight, because if you're gay, you voted for a man who wanted us all dead and did nothing to make sure a ton of us did.

Once Reagan got elected, the straight white male baby boomer finally found his voice and was restored to his previous, rightful position of preeminence, after being knocked off his perch by uppity niggers, spics and fags. The Newt Gingriches of the world finally got their due and became masters of the universe, as God intended.

"Comparing the Reagan era and afterward to the 70s, the changes I noticed were that people became more more optimistic, ambitious, industrious and confident."

Yes...that's because they had a MOVIE STAR President!

R11, everything is cyclical. Had Ted Kennedy or some flashy Democrat with a good message become president in the 80s, the same effect would have been achieved. But I will give Reagan credit for being a kind of Make America Great again demagogue, he sold plenty of that shit.

My attitude during the 80s. I'd be happy with just a return of the music and the clothes.

I liked Reagan, but he was naive. All the deregulation was good in the short term, but in the long term it really hurt America. Same with his tax cuts. It was good when the top tax rate was 90%. FDR was right. It was cut drastically under Reagan, and will never go back.

As for the gay stuff, AIDS research was well funded every single year after 1982. Reagan was wrong to never address it, but he was an old man. There was plenty of awareness despite his silence on it.

Not one single American died of AIDS because of Ronald Reagan.

R1 I'm assuming you voted for the Clinton?

Cancers like Reagan democrats wre what are destroying the democratic party. We must vote Bernie and end the Reagan democrats once and for all!

"Not one single American died of AIDS because of Ronald Reagan."

I've been on DL since 2003, and I've never encountered such a load of happy horseshit in that time.

Revisionist history much, R18?

I remember 1976 being the end of the old America. Watergate was behind us and we celebrated the bicentennial. That July 4th was my favorite of my childhood and the most patriotic I ever remember people being. The rest of the decade it seemed everyone was trying to find themselves and deal with the excesses of sexual liberation and the after-effects of Vietnam. Until Reagan came in and people felt like we were having a new version of the 50s, good for white folks, bad for minorities. Like the 50s, we were also sure that nuclear war was going to happen any day. And worst of all, no one seemed to care that we were dying of AIDS.

According to my dad, there was a noticeable change in the few years after Reagan became president that he hasn't seen since. He said that the all of a sudden it was cool to be ambitious and want things, to be serious about your career and all that--business and talking about business was the most uncool thing you could do in the 70s and all of a sudden it was all anyone wanted to talk about, and that people seemed generally more optimistic about the future. Also fashion changed pretty dramatically.

Now I take that with a grain of salt because it also coincided with him becoming a lawyer and starting work at a big law firm and getting married and yours truly coming along, so it may just have been because that's where he was in his life at the time and not because that was the general gestalt in America.

Ronald Reagan did not, repeat, did NOT give a flying fuck about human beings. He absolutely did not give a shit. I remember his "Morning In America" bullshit. Vote for me and the U.S. will be great again! Sound familiar? Well, the Reagan era was pure shit, the decade of greed and avarice and self absorption and not giving a shit about poverty or the environment or AIDS. And the economy? Well, don't worry about it! Spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow! That was the credo of the Reagan era. God, it was loathsome.

[quote]I liked Reagan, but he was naive ... AIDS research was well funded every single year after 1982 ....

HE was naive?

The notion that Reagan should be excused from addressing the biggest health crisis of his presidency because he was old is obscene.

Yes R25 The old saying "age brings wisdom" is joke towards Reagan. He had none to offer.

Why does no one ever mention the crack epidemic that was ravaging inner cities in the 80s ? Actually,it was ravaging many other places as well including suburbs. Does no one remember all the zombie crack heads,soaring crime rates,mass incarceration,et,etc ? We were dealing with all that AND Aids. I loved the 80s mainly because I was young,but I dont for one second think they were the good old days.

OK, I keep seeing this on DL and need to say something.

It is AIDS, not AIDs. It is not the plural of an acronym AID. It is the acronym of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. AIDS, not AIDs.

Attack me as you must.

Then how can you have LIKED Reagan, R18? Because you liked his personality? You sound like all of the other deplorable assholes who vote for a candidate because he has a "nice personality."

Reagan turned the Republican party PRO-LIFE. Up until Ronnie, most ALL Repub and Democratic politicians were Pro-Choice. Jimmy born again Christian Carter brought religion into politics big time, Reagan demanded it.

Warren was a Reaganite. Another reason not to trust that fake lying bitch.

I was born in '82, so I'll recall what I remember and the aftermath.

Reagan fucked us up in Iran. He miraculously helped free the hostages on his swearing in. Iran-Contra.

He turned a blind eye to the AIDS epidemic, which in turn spiraled out of control.

Cocaine for the rich(see John DeLorean), crack in the projects.

The Bronx looked like a fucking war zone and Donald and Ivana Trump were living it up just a few miles south in Manhattan.

Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Orel Roberts, Jimmy Swaggert, and Pat Robertson all were influential in politics These preachers are still latching their tendrils onto candidates.

The closure of mental hospitals which lead to lack of mental health care. What happens when you close mental hospitals? The people wind up on the streets or in prison.

"Ronald Reagan did not, repeat, did NOT give a flying fuck about human beings..."

Hey, watch that. Ronnie was suffering from dementia soon to be full blown Alzheimers when he was president. He didn't know which was was up :(

No one has yet mentioned the defunding of mental facilities during the Reagan era. Mental patients were all let out onto the street...I could could the body increase on the street in NYC MONTHS after Reagan was sworn in.

I will assume R32 was writing his post when R31 posted.

Yes, R33. Only I was born in 1955, not 1982, so I SAW this shit.

LOL, I meant you both mentioned the emptying of the mental hospitals.

You are the same age as my Dad R34-- did you notice the things I'd mentioned in R22 or was that more about where he was in his life in the early 80s?

I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned how Reagan oversaw the start of the dismantling of workers’ rights. He was a union buster (ironic given his prior role as President of SAG*); his protracted - and ultimately successful- fight against the air traffic controllers was heralded by CEOs all over the country as a signal that they could run roughshod over the rights of their employees with impunity. The Reagan era was a major turning point prior to which people expected and enjoyed a certain level of security, stability, and longevity in their jobs. Afterwards, not so much.

(*It must be noted that while Reagan had been more politically moderate if not exactly liberal as a younger man, he did use his authority as head of the SAG to try to root out actors suspected of being Communist sympathizers, in the process killing the careers of some in the movie industry who’d never done anything wrong.)

In my mind, Reagan set the US on a path of wealth worship, privatization, and Darwinist government policies from which we really have not recovered.

The hollowing-out of the middle class began in the 80s. Corporate raiders* like Ivan Boesky bought up companies and wrecked them, sold off their assets, saddled them with debt, and went their merry way, heedless of human and economic waste in their wake. (*the truth behind so-called activist shareholders is that they were simply sharks, and shameless about it)

Remember reading piece after piece in magazines and newspapers, about company after company wrecked like this, during the Greed Is Good decade of the '80s. Followed soon after by the savings and loan scandals later in that decade.

Reagan's election was a disaster, for most Americans. Despite how good he made them feel, his administration was the beginning of the end of economic equity for the majority of us.

"Business journalism", publications like Inc., really took off in the 80s, they were all about glorifying corporate executives and entrepreneurs and making them look glamorous, which was a huge shift from earlier eras where journalists were all about taking those types down.

And don’t forget Reagan's disastrous appointment of James Watt as Secretary of the interior, “if you’ve seen one tree, you’ve seen them all,” who opened federal lands to exploitation by private foresting and ranching interests.

[quote] In 1983 after leaving the Department of the Interior he lobbied the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Ten years later, Watt was indicted on 25 counts of felony perjury and obstruction of justice and accused of making false statements before a federal grand jury investigating influence peddling at the Department of Housing and Urban Development at that time. (Wikipedia)

R35, my experiences were different from your father's (dad, I hate that infantile shit) because I was in New York and the burbs...we exist on out own planet. The South Bronx and all that - NYC was in bankruptcy in the 1970s and still the 80s, Ronald fucking Reagan had NOTHING to do with anything New York, he probably hated New York. Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggert got their start under Carter, Carter was the CHRISTIAN who brought them all in. Reagan exploited it so he could turn the Republican party into the Religious Assholes of America. It transformed the part to this day.

Got it R40. My father was in NYC too at that time.

But if you were living in a gay ghetto downtown and he was living on the rapidly gentrifying UWS, you were likely in different orbits.

Debt % of recent Presidents =

1) Reagan -186%

2) Bush 2 = 77%

1) Bush 1 = 53%

4) Carter = 41%

5) Clinton = 40%

R12 I don't think it would have mattered. There are too many people who just aren't on the same page about it and think "why should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare?" Instead of asking why the health care bills are so high in the first place (millions? Come on ok)

I think it all goes back to racism. But what about Brazil? Brazil still had slavery at least 20 years after the US outlawed it yet in 1988 was able to make healthcare a constitutional right?

So what up with America? Do Americans really think *government health care* would be like a trip to renew your driver's license at the DMV? Or going through TSA?

Why don't we have it? It's difficult to live with out it.

R18 is Ann Coulter

R23 I'm a Trump hating liberal. I think you're wrong. I think Reagan wanted everyone to prosper. But he was naive in the way he went about it. He was a decent man, who unfortunately was not able to rise above his upbringing in terms of social issues. Deeply flawed, but a decent person. Certainly worlds better than Trump.

[quote] Do Americans really think *government health care* would be like a trip to renew your driver's license at the DMV? Or going through TSA?

That is EXACTLY the reason R43

And they confuse Medicare and Medicaid and think it's some sort of welfare-level health care.

It's not that people like what they have now, it's that they fear what they get will be even worse.

That's why education and explanation and a very clear and easy to understand idea of what it will look like and why you won't need to wait three years for a hip replacement even if you need one will be the key to success.

Let's remember another one of Reagan's anti-environmental appointments: Anne Gorsuch, resting-bitch-face pioneer and mother of current Supreme Court Justice Neil. She also popularized the expression "nothingburger" (used, after her forced resignation from the EPA administrator, of a sop appointment she was thereupon forced to withdraw from).

Funny how Republican administrations are so often full of crooks and scammers.

Ronald Reagan The Racist =

Clinton and Reagan were very similar. That is why the electorate overwhelmingly rejected Hillary in 2016.

R49 = an ignorant deplorable. A dumb asshole too

R48 yes, it was very unbecoming to hear him talk about Africans celebrating and dancing in the aisles when China joined to the UN.

China has done a lot in Africa. I guess that's why they were happy. I think it's not bad? I don't know why we don't expect China to help more in the world? They have the most people anyway. Chairman Mao thought with so many people a country could never be taken over. So, fine . Please help the world?

Reagan was an elitist high society snob and everyone smelled it

R50, If this was 35 years ago you'd be defending Nancy Reagans honor.

Progressives are moving away from your old school corporate Reaganite politicians.

Reagan WANTED to be an elitist high society snob, he came from humble beginnings, boo hoo.

R53, I was in my thirties when your idol was president. I wasn't a twenty-something of 2019 dreaming of Nancy's drapes like you are now, asshole.

R55, You are the one who supports reaganite politiocans, Dear.

Clintons were a disaster for this country. She should have moved out of the way for Bernie.

Go home R51, you're drunk.

"He was a decent man, who unfortunately was not able to rise above his upbringing in terms of social issues."

In other words, Ronald Reagan was not responsible for the actions of his administration because of ALZHEIMER'S.

Great Maddow clip r42, thanks.

Wasn't it also Reagan who first inflicted the bullshit "trickle down" economics on us?

Yes, quite famously. George H. W. Bush rightly called it "voodoo economics" during the primaries, but shut up about it once he was offered a place on the ticket.

The death of creativity and the ascendancy of business. Capitalism and winder take all took over. All about money. Still is.

"Ronnie was suffering from dementia soon to be full blown Alzheimers when he was president. He didn't know which was was up :("

"Ronnie" wasn't suffering from dementia when he first took office. And he didn't give a shit about people even then. So don't try to defend the son of a bitch.

R44 Nope. I hate that stupid bitch. I'm a person who lived though the '80s who sees things clearly, not through a lens of bile and hatred.

I honestly cannot wait until the old reagan loving Democrats die off. No offense but you guys are the reason we have Trump in office right now. And gave us the Clinton's as a result of your love of Reagan greed.

Oh boomers.

I've been wondering about the change in the image of the "everyday American" from the late '70s into the early '80s.

I was just a kid then, but I remember that in commercials in the late '70s, the homes and lifestyles depicted were quite modest. Then after 1980, it seemed like every commercial had these huge houses with designer kitchens — even to sell Maxwell House (see the first commercial in the video below). My parents were trying to get there, but just below it, so I was very attuned to it at the time.

This seemingly huge generation of counterculturalists of the late '60s were aspiring to own giant houses and collect crystal (think the house in Risky Business) in just over a decade, by the early '80s. How/why did that happen?

Reagan was a racist PWT idiot who was so desperate to be part of the Pasadena and Orange County Californians he turned the nation into a shallow, douche pit of superficiality because his Reich overlords told him to. Anyone remember how the asshole Alex P. Keaton became the “cool guy” on tv? Reagan was supposedly so stupid that his staffers had to make short films to simplify the issues so his thick peabrain could understand them.

[quote]had to make short films to simplify the issues

Brilliant!

Slightly off topic but I remember Reagan getting shot in March 1981. Most classes had been dismissed for the day at my Catholic HS when Father Jon got on the intercom with urgent instructions to meet in the chapel. All the Jesuit brothers went full-on apoplectic as they herded us to the chapel wing. There we were told that the president had been shot and we had to collectively pray like we've never done before to the Lord Jesus that He may intercede with God our Father so that He might spare the president. It was an hour of fidgeting in wooden pews and thinking about getting out and getting high.

Six weeks later, same crap only this time we gotta do the hour long heavy prayer bullshit for Pope John Paul II who got shot. At least we got dismissed early so we could attend mass with our family. I went to the park and had a few beers, smoked a little dust-laced weed, too. Good stuff.

They both survived so prayer works y'all. 🙏🏼

R66, that's a great example of what i was thinking when I made this topic. It seems like all of a sudden, in terms of materialism, there was a huge embracing of it. From what I've heard, in prior decades, it wasn't about becoming a millionaire with a McMansion, but having a middle class job and having a comfortable living. To be fair, that old America is never coming back and it couldn't have lasted, even if Reagan was never president. The America of the 50s and 60s only existed because it was the only major country whose economy wasn't destroyed because of the war. This meant it was the sole economic power and it could afford to be laid back. By the 80s, Germany, the UK and Japan were all rising and the US could no longer afford to be noncompetitive.

[quote] Most classes had been dismissed for the day at my Catholic HS when Father Jon

oh, brother, sounds like the monsignor warped you up good

R71 not sure what you're implying but I can assure that my all boys Catholic HS was gay AF.

Reagan galvanized the Religious Right and gave it a thirst for political power it's never relinquished. It eventually morphed into the Tea Party, and now into Trumpism.

Someday historians will have to study how a sect that originated in stringent opposition to the centralized authority of the pope and of kings, and to their divine rights, in America became, with the passing of centuries and the accrual of power, the zealous champion of centralized authority in a divinely anointed leader (which is how "evangelical" Protestants see Trump).

Reagan was the crunch of the grave diggers spade for America.

" Prayer Works!",,,So does dust laced weed R69

Reagan was Jerry Falwell's tire iron.

I wish Hinckley had been a better shot.

Ronnie knew how to act like a President.

R79: Right. Act. He just didn't know how to, or want to, be one.

The fact that R1 was happy Reagan won means that, yes, he is indeed a R1 cunt.

Anyone who was happy about Reagan winning was and is a terrible human being.

R69 it does work sometimes. You are psychically contacting machine elves from another dimension and if they feel like it they will help

You gotta communicate with your mind powers really hard or they won't help.

Troll flypaper thread. Excellent work, OP.

Reagan ushered in massive tax cuts and so began the destruction of America.

Reagan ushered in massive tax cuts and so began the destruction of America.

Reagan destroyed worker’s rights and the middle class.

KETCHUP is a vegetable!

Responsibility started with us gay men not to infect each other. Even if he had spoken out about AIDS as President, we gay would have still fucked each other to death at the baths, backroom bars and sex clubs.

I feel that the election of Reagan was a demarcation line in the country. The values of our country shifted. Greed, conspicuous overspending, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous -- these were not only acceptable - but these values were put up on a pedestal and praised. He cared nothing for the working class or poor, which I found amazing, since Reagan grew up in poverty. It was the beginning of the screwing over and dismantling of the middle class. People seemed to care less about each other and only for themselves.

On the other hand, his obvious personal anti-gay bias and bare bones federal funding for AIDS strengthened the gay community to become what it it today. Nothing like an enemy to bring people together.

R89, wasn't Reagan also friends with Rock Hudson? It makes his anti-gayness and slow reaction to AIDS all the more frustrating.

No OP. America was always like that.

For someone in show business for decades, Reagan had his head in the sand with regard to gays, Jews, women (you should hear Piper Laurie's description of sex with him), blacks, minorities, "values"...it's like he got all his info from an old fashioned movie. But the public loves that shit in politics.

Reagan is burning in hell as we speak. He is warming up seats for r1 and r18, who will join him there immediately following their own demises.

R88 wasn’t alive in the 80s, you can tell. No one knew how the virus was spread in the early years. People got sick and died before it even had a name, before it was even public knowledge.

Fuck these trolls. F&f each one.

Anyone want to take this? (R94)

R94: That's because the filthy bitch troll is a Republican cunt, a stupid straight whore who is trolling, defending Red Ink Reagan and blaming gays for the crisis, no real gay or lesbian talks this way. FF and ban, but also spank them naked in front of everyone, it's the only way to shame them into stopping their bullshit.

Trolls deserve spanking

R81 Ok, I’m a cunt. What exactly are you, you overly wound ball of bile? It must be horrible for you to share a world with people who don’t follow your advice or agree with you. Wait, are you The Donald?

ronnie ray gun was a cunt

Ronnie's "trickle down" meant : the rich piss in you face and tell you it's raining.

Here's a nice little snip of like in the early 80s. Who knows maybe it was Dallas that made everyone more materialistic. Old movies always featured wealthy people be and poor people. There's always been a multifaceted way of life in America. The Beatles embraced the hippy all you need is love crap but cling to their wealth. The earth granola crap wasn't really real. We've always been like Katherine Hepburn and wanting to be ostentatious and conspicuously famous and wealthy.

Not true, but you’ve clearly fed on that lie for a long while

Reagan's FDA approved aspartame. Now we all have migraines.

2015 - "Newly-discovered audio recordings from White House press conferences show Reagan's press secretary laughing off AIDS and making fun of "fairies."

We weren't kidding when we called it the "Me Generation".

Question: I know RR had Alzheimer’s did he used to have trouble remembering while in office? Was Reagan as bad as Frump as far as memory? I swear Stupid Frump has early stages of dementia.

R104, that is so disgusting. What cunts.

Reagan began his presidential campaign at a speech in Philadelphia Mississippi, a place forever associated with the KKK's murder of three civil rights workers, Chaney, Goodwin and Schwerner. The message was clear and he aligned himself with Nixon's racist Southern Strategy. The Republican Party's slide, beginning with Nixon, continued ever downward, reaching its nadir with Trump.

I read bottom up...he fired all the air traffic controllers after they went on strike . He ran down the economy with his tax cuts to the wealthy telling us it would "trickle down" to the middle class ... it never did. It took Bill Clinton to rev the economy back up for us regular people. I hated Reagan and Nancy

Both were terrible.

R106, yes, he slept through cabinet meetings and had trouble remembering members of his cabinet. Reporter Lesley Stahl wrote that he'd go in and out of recognizing press people including her - far worse than Donald Trump. If we had social media in the 1980s, Reagan would have been toast before reelection.

Reagan went to Germany and visited a cemetery to honor the dead there...which happened to include Nazis. He was urged not to do it by people like Elie Wiesel, but he did it anyway. He made this statement:

"These [SS troops] were the villains, as we know, that conducted the persecutions and all. But there are 2,000 graves there, and most of those, the average age is about 18. I think that there's nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."

Springtime for Hitler, indeed.

Reagan was a decent enough guy in his own limited way who just happened to be the beginning of a lot of shit in this country. Yes consumerism, corporatism, stupid whining about the deficit began, stupid worship of the rich, a whole lot of stupid began with Reagan and we are still trying to dig out from under it. He seemed fresh and confident and in charge after Carter, but it was still a whole lot of stupid shit and a whole lot of stupid people began running this country after him.

In short, this is a stupider, shittier country in part because of Ronald Reagan.

yeah, I ain't done here, maybe cause I voted for him, yeah I did. it was a thing. He seemed like a breath of fresh of air, but we have to break this fucking spell, cause it still ain't broken. we still think the rich are the greatest and we owe them tax cuts and shit, and we really, really need to end this shit. the rich are mostly cunts and we need to stop worrying about their whims and their needs and their bullshit and just start taxing them again. that is actually the biggest poison that Reagan injected into the political mainstream, that our primary duty is to give a shit about the rich. we need to stop that shit.

He was the first president I voted for in 1984.

why was that, r116. can't judge, won't judge, but what did you see in him?

People in my family who were progressive, free-loving hippie adjacent became "Greed is Good" Reagan Republicans. Now, people generally get conservative as they age, but I think it kind of switched overnight.

I think we all got very weird in the 80s. We were so sick of the 60s and 70s, a kind of madness set in. we really did start worshiping money and the wealthy. it's way past time we stopped that shit.

and now that I'm all wound up, we need a whole different ethos. we need serious redistribution. growth and profit and making more of stupid shit for stupid shit reasons needs to be replaced by sustainability. we need to unlearn everything we learned in the 80s. the whole damn system is out of order, and we need to stop.

[quote]We were so sick of the 60s and 70s, a kind of madness set in.

R119, I shudder to think what will happen when people are finally sick of the 2010's.

yeah, I get that, but maybe we'll actually go a little sane. who knows. we are not actually locked into stupid, it just seems that way sometimes.

The 70s were the "Me Decade," famously, so no, it didn't really represent a change.

you mean the worship of money and the wealthy didn't represent a change in the 80s, r123?

[quote]...but what did you see in him?

Carter, although personally decent, seemed overwhelmed in the job and meekly willing to accept that the US was in decline (ala his famous malaise speech). The failure to rescue the Iran hostages just highlighted the degree to which the military had been allowed to slide into disrepair/ineffectiveness, and the powerlessness of the US in the ongoing hostage issue just made him look weak. The high interest rates and other economic problems were also big factors in his loss.

OTOH, Reagan had confidence, optimism, and promised rejuvenation of US strength.

yup, had the same thought r125. the same wrong thought. damn, we were really, really, really wrong. which actually, we have an excuse. but this has been nearly 40 years, and this whole country still keeps fucking it up. kind of amazing.

There's not much mention of the Cold War here, but it was a huge issue in the early '80s. Some people supported Reagan solely because he took, or appeared to take, a much stronger stand against the Soviets than Carter, Ford or Nixon had. The USSR had invaded Afghanistan in 1979. (Thank God we learned a lesson from them and never made that stupid mistake.) The crackdown on Solidarity and martial law in Poland came in December 1981, early in RR's first term. The arms race was in full swing.

Whether you agree with Reagan's approach or not, the Cold War and our military power (or lack thereof, as R125 says) was by far the biggest foreign policy issue, and maybe the biggest issue, of the times. This was the main political topic that people in my office used to argue about.* You can't overlook it in discussions of his Presidency.

*There's something that has changed: People used to discuss politics, often with considerable fervor and disagreement, but continue to be friends and work together anyway and avoid calling each other names. I would also guess that many of the eldergays here, now so high on their self-righteous horses about Reagan, voted for him in 1984. He won by an overwhelming landslide. He didn't do that by not getting any votes from people left of center.

The Iran hostage crisis was huge. Young people today probably have no idea. It represented everything that had become weak in the United States. Reagan in 1980 was definitely going to turn that around. Some people feared he would be too strong, but nevertheless took a chance because the alternative with weak Carter was so bad. The buildup in the military during the Reagan administration won the arms race. There were significant problems with his presidency though, including not implementing New Federalism and not taming government spending.

These posters making excuses for Reagan and themselves for voting for him—all I can say is, there's a sucker born every minute. I was voting for the first time then, too, and I could see through Reagan's "optimism" and "confidence" just as easily as I can see through Trump's phoniness. I could see that his trickle down economics would ultimately ruin the middle class, environmental deregulation would make us sick, massive spending on the military would bust the budget, and pandering to the hypocrites on the religious right was just a cover for racist, homophobia, and misogyny. And obviously I wasn't the only one. Didn't take any special prophetic skills, it just stood to reason!

Wait a minute--I thought it was well known that Reagan was not really responsible for getting the hostages released. I thought what happened is that Reagan secretly made a deal with the Iranians to not release the prisoners until after the election, so it would make Carter weak and Reagan strong. That's treason.

That's treason.

Well, no more so than sabotaging the Paris peace talks or conditioning funding on oppo research.

People supported Reagan because there was no where else to go. Everything seemed out of control in the 1970s, and would have no matter who was president. Reagan was a "nice guy" and offered something more stable (he said). I remember seeing liberal Sen Eugene McCarthy on Live at Five so disgusted with Jimmy Carter saying he - HE - would support Reagan. Stupidity from everyone. I did something stupid too, I voted for independent candidate, John Anderson.

Does anyone remember when suck up failure Michael Reagan, his adopted son, said that he had to INTRODUCE himself to his father at his high school graduation? That would be mid-sixties. Ronnie was losing it then.

"Now, people generally get conservative as they age"

Men do. Women get more liberal as they age.

[quote] was voting for the first time then, too, and I could see through Reagan's "optimism" and "confidence" just as easily as I can see through Trump's phoniness

I could see it and I was only fifteen. Then, just like now, the electorate wants Sweet sounding empty promises even if blatantly false compared to hard reality.

[quote] I did something stupid too, I voted for independent candidate, John Anderson.

My mom did that too, likely for the same reasons

Another reason I would not vote for Reagan in 1980 is because I would never vote for ANY Republican. I voted for Mo Udall in the 1976 NYS Primary, but voted Carter in the election because he was the Democrat, not because I liked him. The Republicans were/are on the wrong side of every issue. Most every politician was pro-choice in the 70s, it was Reagan who brought the party permanently into pro-life.

Weak (Carter) vs strong (Reagan) is frequently used in elections, and everyone falls for it. I have no doubt that Trump supporters see him as strong, without knowing any of the issues or any of his actions. Same with Nixon, same with Reagan, same with Bush. God what you ignorant people let these fucks get away with.

I think our republican-nut friends would be surprised to learn that Carter's military had double the effectives of today's and a third more ships besides. Today's military is not there to defend the country but a privileged caste of mercenaries touring the globe in the service of the wealthy.

I was born in '77 so of course I can only look back at the 80s from a child's perspective, but what stands out for me was how completely self-absorbed the adults in my life were. The stereotypical "Me Generation" self-centered Boomers were in full swing throughout my childhood.

Granted, I can't knock it totally because my childhood was full of material benefits and material comfort due to all of the prosperity, but in retrospect there was a certain hollowness and shallowness about it all.

[quote]Why does no one ever mention the crack epidemic that was ravaging inner cities in the 80s ? Actually,it was ravaging many other places as well including suburbs. Does no one remember all the zombie crack heads,soaring crime rates,mass incarceration,et,etc ?

You're on the wrong forum. That's not the demographics of DL at all.

People need a man with a. university education in Economics & Political Science to comment here.

Deindustrialization of the USA began in the 1970s and continued into the 1990s. President Carter had little or nothing to do with the poor economy of his term. Congress doesn't control our Treasury; the Federal Reserve does. The exclusive 25-year oil lease with Iran from the 1953 CIA & MI6 coup against Iran's Mossedegh expired in 1978, which sent oil prices soaring. Those were unrelated to Carter. The USA became dependent on foreign oil in 1953. Carter is the only post-World War 2 POTUS who never dropped a bomb or fired a missile against anyone. He knew the consequences. I disagree that he's a Southern Baptist, but he was ethical and maintained Constitutional Separation of church and State. Tax cuts only result in economic stimulation when they're targeted at small businesses and the working- and middle-class. JFK understood that.

Reagan was a senile, incompetent tool who wrote he was chosen by God. When he awoke in the hospital after he was shot in 1981, he was given a pad and pen. His first question was, "Am I still alive?" I've had at least 3 near-death experiences and my mind was clear.

Reagan was a failed actor who was used as a tool, like President Trump. Both damaged our country beyond repair. I regret that I was too young to vote against the former.

I love R139 and want to spend the rest of my life with him.

R139, LOL, thanks, but trust me, even though I've never had an STD and I'm not bad-looking, you do not!

Gen X'er

[quote]Not one single American died of AIDS because of Ronald Reagan.

Unbelievable. This is what decades of "patriotic" propaganda from the politicians and media alike will do.

Every president gets their term rewritten to make them into a kind of noble American hero, and it'll happen to Trump, too, mark my words. It started with Reagan really early on, and now we have grown gay men who think Reagan didn't actually do anything wrong during the AIDS crisis.

The only weapon we have against it is the truth, and people need to know that R18 is not speaking the truth.

[quote]He miraculously helped free the hostages on his swearing in.

An old trick learned from Nixon and Kissinger.

We all talk about Reagan being the beginning of the current corrupt Republican problem but it really was Nixon. Actually, the Republicans were fully corrupt by the 1920s, but they briefly embraced a kind of moderate rightwing philosophy with Eisenhower, who was bad but not the full-on criminal grifting fascist type their party went with from Nixon on.

[quote]People used to discuss politics, often with considerable fervor and disagreement, but continue to be friends and work together anyway and avoid calling each other names.

That's not noble, though. As our society has matured we've learned that the people who vote rightwing but are polite to our faces aren't our friends. We don't take that hypocrisy anymore, and I have to wonder why people think we should.

Republicans vote for a party that has a specific anti-gay agenda written into their platform. They might claim to be my friend, but they wouldn't ever consider not voting for someone who wants to take away my human rights. If they were around their straight friends they would call us names without hesitation. So why are we supposed to be their friends?

R143 is correct. Today is the day to talk about this. In 1964, was had two zealots called Senators Goldwater & Thurmond. The American people overwhelmingly rejected the former that November 486-52. Today, Goldwater might be called a moderate Republican, but he was no such thing. Both of the aforementioned were Neo-Nazis and they need to be called that, just like what we have in DC today. The 1980s were self-centered, but people still had some respect and compassion; not today.

Reagan needs to be called out and remembered for having a "proud member" of the John Birch Society in his Administration.

The JBS was co-founded by F.C. Koch, father of today's Koch brothers. F.C. Koch funded the 22 Nov 1963 "ad" that accused President Kennedy of being a Communist traitor who allegedly committed treason. JFK was a man and brave enough to visit Dallas in an open vehicle because he thought the Secret Service & DPD would protect him. Most S.S. men tired & hungover and the majority of the DPD were JBS, KKK or both. Our world forever changed at 1230 c.s.t. 56 years ago today. Those who don't know history are condemned to repeat it.

Shit, honestly you guys are so smart. I have learned so much. I didn’t really know much about RR. Thank you.

R140, sorry, I meant to THANKS to you! If people liked and cared about others for their intelligence and compassion, I would've been married long ago. I'm a great cocksucker, too. I've had a lot fun at that! :-)

I was way too young in the 1980s to know about cocaine and lived in too conservative an area, but that's my understanding of the era, no? The only crack I know about has hair, where I put my dick in!

Anyone who denies Reagan made the HIV/AIDS crisis worse is a liar or an idiot. There wasn't even an HIV test until way too late. The French team led by Dr. Montanier at the Pasteur Institute discovered HIV. It was not co-discovered. Dr. Gallo is a jackass.

I know what helped spark the worldwide HIV epidemic - - jet airplanes. HIV originated in East Central Africa - - today's The Congo. The former Belgian Congo fell in 1960. People were emergency-airlifted to Brussels. That's where the HIV/AIDS outbreak basically began other than Arvid Noe from Norway. The B707-320 was certificated for 189 passengers max. The record pax airplane lift was 303 out of Belgian Congo in 1960 until the B-747 was introduced in 1970. The Sabena B707-320 forward fuselage is on display in a museum.

Does anyone here "older" remember the small condoms only for oral sex that Reagan's FDA had banned?

Gen X'er

Reagan was the first President that pushed the idea of “Republicans love God and country, they are righteous people, and Democrats are evil, atheist, hate America and are Communists.” Reagan himself didn’t come right out and scream it blatantly like they do now. But he hinted and hinted and surrounded himself with people that were less discreet than he was. He’s the one that changed society to believe that Democrats were anti-American and not true patriots. He also had a lot to do with the present worship of all soldiers, including war criminals and drug addicts.

Reagan himself would undoubtedly be shocked at the present wild accusations and McCarthyism, although he started it. But it was on the down low back then, not screaming all over the television.

Reagan getting rid of the Fairness Doctrine has caused the present dying gasps of the end of Democracy.

If you’re interested in Reagan, I really recommend you read Nancy Reagan’s book about him. I think it’s called Letters to Nancy or something like that. It is simply copies of letters they exchanged over the years.

It was a revelation. Reagan and Nancy lived in a disconnected fantasy world where they were great parents (they weren’t), and thought everything they did was without rancor (it wasn’t).

After reading that, I could see why he thought he was a good guy and everybody who opposed him was bad. He was a completely different person with Nancy than anyone else, including his kids. He also was like Trump in that he so isolated himself from all criticism that he had no idea why people didn’t like him or why his policies hurt people. He was like a Marie Antoinette.

I worked in a bank in the 1980s. First time in my life you had to hide that you were a Democrat to keep working there and had to nod your head and agree while far right employees screamed about how poor people were lazy scum who refused to work and there was no possible other explanation no matter what. It was the end of the Christian idea of feeling compassion for the poor. After that, the poor were subhumans who deserved everything bad that happened to them. That change is permanent.

R106, yes, Reagan had dementia while in office.

No, Reagan did not get the hostages released. That was a done deal while Carter was still in the Oval Office.

Many people don't know that President Harry S. Truman wrote about the dangers of "trickle-down economics" in his autobiography. I have a 1st-printing set. I changed my mind about his decision to drop the A-bombs because the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube, but the USA & the world needs a man like HST again!

When Carter left office, the national debt stood at about $900 billion. To quote a conservative Republican, "Nobody thought it would ever get over a trillion." Since 1982, the USA has effected the largest transfer of wealth in history. This country must get back to fair, progressive taxation! Why is a downward transfer Communism & Socialism, but it's just fine to burden the American people with more than $20 TRILLION of debt to make wealthy people and other countries more wealthy?! That is pure evil and insanity!

R149, is this the autobiography for Truman? I am a Truman fan, I'd love to read it.

"I worked in a bank in the 1980s. First time in my life you had to hide that you were a Democrat to keep working there and had to nod your head and agree"

WHERE were you, R148? I realize that the rest of the US is not like the New York City area, but come on. I remember being in the elevator with five other people on election night 1984 (I worked on 44th and Madison), and someone in the elevator asked a person who worked at my company who he was voting for. He said "Reagan," and I said, "and you admit it?"

[quote] my childhood was full of material benefits and material comfort due to all of the prosperity

Lucky you

Born in 1971 so remembered the 70s as a little kid. It seemed kind of grim - the movies, the architecture - and the teenagers of that decade were really vicious, something that few people seem to remember. Reagan seemed like a new start from my kids'-eye perspective. The gloss of the '80s was more attractive to me as I moved into my teens. But it was a mendacious period, and one where the old class barriers were co-opted by the nouveau-riche and brandished like the labels on designer jeans. The horrendous popularity of evangelical ministers was one of the most disturbing facets of the time. That said, I think Reagan was the cumulative effect of a movement, and less its instigator.

R151, yeah, he was roundly lampooned and dottering and Senile.

R150, no, I have that book also. In 1955, he was only the 2nd retired POTUS to write his memoirs and needed the money, although Bess was wealthy and was an excellent former tennis player. She and Harry broke the slats of their bed!

HST's actual autobiography is rare and comes in a 2-book set. The 1st volume is called "Memoirs by Harry S. Truman: Year of Decisions" Volume One, Doubleday, NY. It's basically about taking over for FDR and making WW2 decisions. 2nd Volume: "Volume Two, Years of Trial and Hope".

R151, in 1989, I began at a Fortune 25 HQ that is run like the military and where most were GOP. Not good to be openly progressive or liberal. Heard about "Slick Willie" all the time. I'm a loner and private anyway, so of course I wasn't out on the job, but I was outed. Those bastards spread a rumor I was a cocaine addict with AIDS! And I was a 4.0 tournament tennis player. Today I'm still STD-free and never touched an illegal drug in my life. My former colleague (who I liked a lot) voted for Perot because she thought Clinton hated women - - what a waste! Most people have no clue about having a career in Corporate America!

R151, I was in the LA area. Every management person in the whole company was a Republican, including young people. If there were any Democrats, they were lower level job titles and poor. That particular branch had a lot of people under forty there, I think only one guy was over forty (barely).

It was to the point that you could only speak freely after you left work or if you were on your lunch hour offsite. Meanwhile, the Republicans never shut up about how anybody who wasn’t rich was a low life loser, and this was in a bank, where employees generally are underpaid.

It was pretty similar to today’s Deplorables, who think Trump will make them rich, but in real life they’re barely scraping by.

R156, I know what you mean. My 1st 2 jobs were at banks and I was UNDERPAID. At one time I had 3 part-time jobs while a half-time college student and could not pay my bills! LOL. I lived on credit, which was easy to do. Now, uneducated or undereducated people need 2 jobs to survive. Reagan helped usher that in.

Reality was a culture shock after Catholic church/school told me everyone loved everyone else and I had every luxury from my parents. I learned immediately that just as my father said, no solid Republican will ever do anything substantial for a poor, working class or middle class person! That does not mean I endorse every Democrat, however. Libertarians are worse than GOP - - watch it, voters!

Americans are averse to universal health care because they're afraid that one single person they don't like will get it.

It's the past 40 years or so that make me wonder if the American system of government is too corrupt and morally bankrupt to fix.

Reagan opened the floodgates to Evangelical Christians. He pandered to them shamelessly. Falwell, Robertson and their cohorts were absolute scum but Reagan made them "respectable" and ushered them into the mainstream. He should burn in hell for that alone.

R66 I was born in 1950 and was part of the counterculture. To this day I will never understand how we went from being hippies to corporatists. I never lost those values but apparently it was all just rebellion. They got a few years older and lost their ideals.

R158, that's true, and they're also "illegals will flood the country," but they're too stupid to under that since the 1920s the USA has enforced one of the strictest anti-immigration policies in the world!

Sorry, my sticky keyboard made me foul that ^ up. They're also terrified and too stupid to understand. And it's NOT sticky from what you're dirty bird minds are thinking! :-P

-162

Republicans showed us their true colors and their meanness has been on full display ever since.

Mr. Carter was a true fiscal conservative and since all Republicans and most congressional Democrats were bought by the military establishment, Carter could do nothing for us.

The Reagan era was the 50s all over again but more cutthroat.

Reagan's son said he had no compassion. First there was the lowlife Reagan, now we have Trump and in between we had Dubya. Why do Republicans try to destroy our country? Democrats get in and make us whole, then Republicans come in and tear us apart...all so the rich can get richer.

R167, you make excellent points. That's why I posted elsewhere always vote against anyone who is anti-Government! Our Constitution says that the people are the government, so they are rallying against all of us! Most people are simply too stupid or too obstinate to understand that!

Gen X'er

“GREED is good!” —Gordon Gekko

The 60’s was the US generation. The Reagan 80’s was the greedy ME generation.

R144, because you can like someone, genuinely wish them well as an individual, but disapprove of some aspect of their life. Or you can want the best for your friend as an individual while still believing that what's best for them, individually, is not best for society as a whole. That applies in both directions - social conservatives and their gay family and friends and gays and their conservative family and friends.

I'm sorry that you don't feel that way, but your view that one's politics defines one's entire self and that failure to agree is enough of a reason to dislike another person is the standard view today, so I am the outlier.

[quote]you can like someone, genuinely wish them well as an individual, but disapprove of some aspect of their life

You're missing the point that the people in question are voting against the basic rights and basic well-being of large sections of the population—sometimes even of themselves.

The older I get the more I believe the true measure of a man isn't how he treats his family and loved ones, it's how he treats people he's never going to meet, whose names he'll never know, who will never be able to do anything for him. He at least owes them the same treatment he would ask for himself. We're not talking about some abstract "failure to agree"; we're talking about actions with consequences and refusal to take responsibility for those consequences—usually while hypocritically claiming some moral high ground.

R171 = FELL FOR IT hook line and sinker. It doesn't understand that these people work for the people of the USA, we don't work for THEM.

When someone feels like "you can like someone, genuinely wish them well as an individual, but disapprove of some aspect of their life," they're like a teenager idolizing a movie star and thinking he/she is his "friend," because he has none in real life.

R171, you’re pitiful

He was elected because Jimmy Carter was such an incredible failure as President. Rather than have four more years of the completely ineffectual Carter, the voters elected a dimwit actor as President, and thus the Reagan era was born. Thanks, Jimmy, you incompetent fuck!

Jimmy Carter wasn't incompetent, Carter was a micromanager and all the Dems in congress hated him and didn't want to cooperate. Carter was also a weak communicator, not unlike George HW Bush.

he had problems of the date

R176 and R177, I agree, but Carter wasn't a weak communicator; he told the truth. Never thought I'd be so anxious to meet a southern baptist. The work he's done since he left the Oval Office proves the man he is. If there's a heaven, then he's certainly one man who'll go there immediately after his last breath.

[quote] I agree, but Carter wasn't a weak communicator; he told the truth.

the problem was that he told unadulterated truth, which to the american public at the time (and likely now - climate change anyone?) was too harsh and unappealing. what I recall was the carter was smart, reagan was "nice" and everyone "liked" him, even though many knew that he spread lies and colored the truth as it suited him.

R178, if you saw the famous malaise speech - a well written speech that Bill Clinton, even the evil Reagan could have hit out of the park - you'd know what a completely SHITTY communicator Jimmy Carter was. And don't excuse his failings with how wonderful Carter was post-presidency. That's the easy part.

R180, that's called superficiality

It's part of the job, R181. And Carter was voted out of office partly because he couldn't do that job.

R182, never thought I'd say this, but I certainly hope you do not vote because I want the man or woman in the Oval Office who is qualified and can do the job, not someone who talks to please me or others!

Gen Xer

R183, not too bright, are you? Jimmy Carter's "truth telling" had nothing to do with qualification for the job of president. Jimmy Carter's good works after office have nothing to do with qualification for the job. Jimmy Carter's not being able to work with a congress of his own party, and not being able to convincingly deliver a speech - do. That may be over your head. Btw, I've been voting since 1972, darling.

you're a cunt, fuck off

Ha ha, very funny R185. Go back to your homework so you'll be free this weekend.

R184, with all due respect, you're demonstrating you're ignorance. I never expressed if I believed Carter was qualified or not; you assumed that and we all know what happens when one assumes. I know my IQ, but won't publish it. My university minor was Political Science. A President of any party can't force Congress to be agreeable. Carter had nothing to do with the exclusive CIA-negotiated oil lease with Iran that ran from 1953-1978. He was the only post-WW2 POTUS who didn't drop a bomb or fire a missile against anyone because he knew the consequences. Like JFK, he knew that tax cuts do not stimulate the economy unless targeted at small businesses and the working class and middle class. He was a nuclear engineer. That's a very impressive C.V. that I certainly can't match.

Would you please publish yours?

Your, not you're

-187

[quote] fully beaded or sequined evening gowns with shoulder pads by Nolan Miller and Bob Mackie

Did women wear clothes by those two men outside of television shows?

I detested both Reagan and Carter. They were both awful Presidents.

R189, of course! Bob Mackie made stage costumes for Cher and Tina Turner, who were both managed by Roger Davies

I should have been clearer: I meant women who were not professional singers/actors/entertainers.

If a lady could afford couture by Miller and Mackie, I don't know of any reason why they wouldn't have done it in the 1980s other than being too busy

R189, as far as the middle class went, women wore less expensive but similar styles, such as sequined or bugle beaded street length sheaths, often long sleeved, or beaded or sequined jackets, often worn over a plain black dress or black pants outfit for older women. The ones regular women wore were made in China and not very expensive. Dresses like this were so common as party dresses. Bugle beaded details or even dresses with all over bugle beaded detail were also common. You could buy these in department stores or in the garment district in LA for not very much.

Another style for bar wear was elaborate sequined or beaded bustiers with a jacket on top.

Here’s another representative style:

Some of this stuff was the type of thing you would wear with black pants or a skirt for a dinner party for example.

This is a good example of something an older woman might wear to dinner, for example, complete with the plain black under shirt or dress.

This is a typical dinner dress style of the era.

Everything was over the top then. Big hair, very dark, dramatic makeup. One fad was pink and purple eye shadow, with dark rouged checks, almost like stage makeup.

I knew women who actually wore this much makeup at work.

[quote]your view that one's politics defines one's entire self and that failure to agree is enough of a reason to dislike another person is the standard view today

But it's not disagreement. These are people who vote for politicians who use their power to take away my basic rights, not people who merely disagree with something I said.

Over the years on several forums I've asked time and again how this can be considered disagreement rather than outright harm, and never have gotten a satisfactory answer.

By the way, I never once said that the way they use their political power (whether it be big or small) defines their entire self; what I said was that they make purposeful choices to deny me my rights, and anyone who does that will not be my friend.

Reagan was a complete turning point. It is when it all became about MONEY. I lived through it and thought it was good at the time. The late 70s were a bit grim. But in retrospect it was an awful turning point for anybody who was not an economic winner.

R187 confuses books with real life. R187 confuses school discussion with a gossip forum.

Tra!

"The ones regular women wore were made in China"

R194, NOTHING was made in China in the 1980s, dear.

The Reagan presidency was a fucking disaster for this country. Full stop. He was a snake oil salesman who did the bidding of his rich patrons and sold out to the religious right.

1980 was the first presidential election I voted in. I was a registered Democrat but found Carter hopelessly moderate (sound familiar?), so I voted for the socialist worker party candidate. I regret that vote.

R203, even though I was a boy, I believe you're correct. I remember Made in Japan, Made in Korea, and Made in Taiwan. It's a pattern, and people are stupid to understand it and how it directly affects them. They don't remember or understand "Made in USA" and "Look for the Union label!" The trade deficit used to be called balance of payments for a good reason.

R205, in the 80s I bought a shirt with the brand name American Clothing. It was made in the Philippines.

R206, thanks, that was an outlier. Corporations will take advantage of cheap labor wherever they can find it. I'm no longer a loyal Canon customer because they're heavily utilizing Vietnam. People think it's great when they can get cheap goods like at Wal-Mart, but don't understand the consequences. It's wrong that's all many people can afford. I still have an Adolfo blazer I wore in freshman year of high school! As my parents taught, buy quality goods once and with proper care, they last a lifetime.

Just to be clear, Banana Republic was horrible in the 80s: novelty wear with a kitschy "safari" theme. It was only in the 90s when they settled down and took over the Gap's higher-end products did it become possible to shop there without losing face.

R208, thanks, you just reminded me I have some nice Gap khaki pleated pants I must iron! Can you believe Barney's in Manhattan filed bankruptcy because the landlords doubled the rent to a ridiculous figure like $55 million monthly?! That's really 1980s on meth! I don't think even ol' Ronnie Reagan would condone evil like that!

R203, yes, they were made in China. That’s because doing all-over beading and sequining would be prohibitively expensive for working and middle class people otherwise. Bugle beading is very labor intensive and had to be done by hand. These dresses would have cost thousands, instead of maybe $150-$350, which is about what they were. Affordable for the masses.

It’s true Chinese clothes weren’t common back then, but for beadwork, it was common then and is common now, because of the cheap labor. Also, sequining and beading are very hard on the eyes and not something someone would want to do for long periods, because it can damage your eyesight to do such fine detail work over long periods.

I used to buy a lot of my clothes in the downtown Los Angeles Santee Alley garment district back then. I was a low-paid bank employee, and being able to buy appropriate dress clothes for the office was very expensive. But in the garment district, women’s dress crepe de chine blouses were as low as $13, for example. That made it affordable. A lot of those same clothes could be seen in department stores. You saw a lot of these sparkly dresses down there around the holidays.

I also bought a lot of clothes in the California Mart in Los Angeles, which was open to the public once a month. My mom was also a very skilled seamstress in her younger years, and she would go with me. She was interested in the construction and quality of the clothing we saw there. So I do understand a little bit about clothing manufacturing and origins. Back then, people preferred to buy clothing from Thailand or the Philippines than China, which was considered low quality even then.

Sparkly party dresses were considered one-offs, for proms, weddings and New Years Eve parties. They were popular as mother of the bride dresses too. A lot of them were street length cocktail dresses.

This type of dress was for working class and middle class girls and women. They weren’t designer dresses or meant to be kept, they were cheap knock-offs. It was obvious from the incredibly low prices that they were made in China. We all knew they were cheaply made. People just wore them for fun a few times, at most.

A similar appearing dress made by a designer, for example as a red carpet dress, would have cost thousands even then. And the difference would be labor costs, from some country other than China.

The dress here is hand bugle beading. I’ve done a small amount of bugle beading work myself. This represents a lot of hours of work, even done factory style. Totally unaffordable for working class office girls, unless the handwork was dirt cheap.

Thank you, R5.

My first presidential vote was in 1984, when I was a senior in college. I voted for Mondale/Ferraro.

I'm a college professor now, and the other night I tried to explain my generation to a class full of 21-22 year old students. I did it by describing the poster I remember seeing on the walls of many dorm rooms. The poster showed either a man or a woman dressed in jodhpurs and tweed raising a champagne glass, as he/she stood beside a Rolls Royce. The header was "Poverty Sucks." That poster underscored much of that decade for me: entitled indifference, greed, and undeserved privilege. The Tom Cruise picture "Risky Business" also reflected this "What the fuck!" attitude that's led to not only indifference today, but to demonization of whole groups of people.

Reagan sucked.

R211 gets it right. The 80s, the Reagan era was all about money, materialism, avarice, having, getting, spending. I think it was the most trivial decade in the history of the U.S.

Just Like now

I prefer to remember the happy times.

R212 As a Reagan voter, I think you nailed it. We obsessed with imagery, "fake it 'til you make it" and the trappings of luxury and power. It's a decade of grasping materialism with no significant accomplishments to it - other than forcing the collapse of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact.

In retrospect, we created far more dangerous competitors who lack even the dubious morality of the Soviet government. That's cheering.