THE CROWN, SEASON THREE

I know if I start watching NOW I'll be up until 6am so I'm going to be good and wait until Sunday evening.

Gorgeous shot in the first episode.

I'm 12 minutes in and stopped to say I love it again already. Menzies is a terrific choice. Colman, despite my misgivings over the eye colour and voice, owns the part... I shouldn't be surprised. She gives the Queen a self-effacing confidence and warmth that is spoken about but seldom seen. Hurricane Bonham Carter looks hilarious without chewing any scenery. Third instalment should be as good as the earlier.

Also a lot of early dialogue that has a delightful Trump is an asshole subtext.

I can't believe Johnson missed Churchill's funeral. What the fuck?! So petty.

Does anyone know when the spy stuff from the first episode became public knowledge?

I cannot with Margaret being sent to the White House with a begging bowl to ask for a bailout. All because they were too proud to devalue their precious pound. 😆

As much as I love seeing the Brits humiliated, Johnson is such an uncultured rube. That dinner looked positively Trumpian.

Princess Anne is fucking hilarious.

Princess Margaret: Things might improve with a drink.

The Queen Mother: (smiling). [italic]Everything[/italic] improves with a drink.

[quote] Does anyone know when the spy stuff from the first episode became public knowledge?

1979

"Actors and writers have criticised the Daily Telegraph columnist Charles Moore for claiming that Olivia Colman has “a distinctly leftwing face” in remarks which suggested she was unsuitable to portray the Queen in the upcoming series of The Crown."

What, pray tell, is a leftwing face?

Picture of Margaret with Lyndon. I had no idea this really happened!

Four episodes in and I was already in love with Colman two episodes ago. The slight movements with her lips and other micro facial expressions... amazing. HBS is outstanding as well. Colin Morgan was so good as that reporter. So handsome and charismatic, plus his veiny arms are to die for.

I can't believe this silly gay show makes me tear up at times, but here we are. I feel so foolish.

I'm in love with them all. I was so used to last series I thought the cast indelible. They're already replaced. This cast is terrific.

Those bitches knew how to put on the dog!

I've been sittign here trying to place the actress who played Princess Alice... and finally: she was the Russian Princess in the brief storyline involving the Dowager Countess and Prince Kuragin on Downton. Bubbikins has been my favourite episode so far. Funny and moving at once.

Separately, the sets seem this time... more authentic. They get the exteriors wrong much of the time.

Anyone wanting more info on Anthony Blunt should track down Cambridge Spies, where Samuel West played him previously, alongside Toby Stephens, Tom Holland and Rupert Pendulous Jones as the other spies and Imelda Staunton as The Queen.

Anal Bennett's A Question Of Attribution with James Fox as Blunt and Samuel West's mother Prunella Scales as The Queen is also worth a watch.

As for the casting in this series, Tobias Menzies is doing a fantastic impression of Prince Phillip, as opposed to Helena Bonham Carter who isn't anything like Margaret yet gets the spirit of the character perfectly.

I am all over Menzies... awesome.

[quote] I had no idea this really happened!

Nothing you see in The Crown really happened. It is a drama, based on fact.

I get the impassion they've taken even more liberties with 'based on' this time around than last.

What are some things that seem too affected or inaccurate to you?

r19 Obviously it's a dramatisation of actual events as it's a scripted series, not a documentary. That's not what that poster was asking. They were unfamiliar with that event taking place - which it did - just as I had been unfamiliar with Johnson being such a douche.

[quote]What are some things that seem too affected or inaccurate to you?

Obviously all of those conversations between her and Wilson. He even asks her at one point whether these chats are confidential, as a wink to the camera. They're being used a lot this season as a narrative device to show her inner workings. Of course she'd never talk to Wilson about not crying when she gave birth to her children in real life, that's crazy. But I'm perfectly fine with that when it's contained to those chats.

*And I won't use the word "obviously" again for the next month, I promise. 😑

That one tear forming in her eye and then rolling down her cheek was one of the greatest TV moments in the history of the medium. I can't help but rewind every time she pulls off another brilliant facial reaction. Don't care that the queen is actually stone-faced.

The actor playing Harold Wilson should get an Emmy as well.

Just as a throw back to Matt Smith before I start my season 3 binge. I've lived in the UK and the men are legit hung.

Aren't I pretty?

^^^^Hell yes! I want a 3 way w/ the Crown's Charles & Phillip

Sshh! I watched four episodes while my husband is at work and now I'll have to sit through them again, All four have been terrific and Menzies' voice as Philip is astonishingly on point. I have read many things about the Aberfan disaster, but seeing it recreated by the amazing SPFX was heartbreaking. To see the Queen admit to dabbing a "bone-dry" eye was great character development, if not terribly charitable. But Wilson's admissions were interesting as well. Jane Lapotaire is superb as Princess Alice, an amazing person from being born at Windsor Castle to being recognized as Righteous Among the Nations for her work saving Jews in wartime Athens. I'm writing this to keep me from watching more.

[quote]and now I'll have to sit through them again

Lucky you!

I am watching them one a week. I don't binge.

Prince Philip always emerges to me as the most intriguing character.

R25 Who is that supposed to be (?Matt), who is he with, why the shaved pubes?

A nice but modest reuse of lines from Series 1 & 2.

It's good writing of drama. Restrained but equally able to move or amuse.

Menzies is SO DAMN GOOD in this,

Charles Dance is always terrific and Josh O'Connor is doing a great job too. I wonder how they will handle the Diana years in four as the writing is pretty restrained and Diana.... really wasn't. She'll become the villain of the piece just by acting up. Which I suppose is how it played.

Binged it. Princess Anne steals every scene she's in. Tough as nails and sarcastic. Philip with ovaries.

I had no idea Charles' investiture took place during friggin' Stonewall! Small world, eh?

[quote] Nothing you see in The Crown really happened. It is a drama, based on fact.

For instance, the Queen in fact has blue eyes.

Ok, here's my deposit: The Crown is boring middlebrow crap.

When does anyone think they'll end the series? I see talk of "who will play Harry and Megan?" but I doubt they go that far. 2002 would be a good year to end it on. The actress playing the queen would get to act out dealing with the deaths of Elizabeth's mom and sister. The golden jubilee would be a big event it could end on. What huge events besides births and marriages of her grand and great grand children have happened to her since?

I just wonder if Mirren will be playing the final stretch, and if it will be one year or two.

R39 true some episodes are boring. Each one covers a different event but I find all the ones that focus on Margaret or more familial drama very engaging.

R41 there will apparently be 6 seasons with the last actress getting 2 seasons as an elder Elizabeth.

r40 No way will they be able to resist the Meghan drama. Or Brexit.

R44 then they might need a fourth even older actress to play a 90 plus queen.

So season two ends in 1964 and season three starts in 1964 but everyone looks completely different EXCEPT Winston Churchill?

what a crock

That's why its called The Crown, not The Queen: he tried The Queen and it worked but it has time limits; the Crown as an institution has been going since time immemorial so bonjour les recettes.

You'd have to be a really dumb person to shun Prince Charles if he spends a semester at your school. I mean, talk about networking opportunities. Those kids, as portrayed in that episode, were crazy.

If Charles looked like O'Connor, he would have been beating away thousands of woman with a stick. He did such a good job in the role and with the accent. I look forward to his future roles.

Tobias Menzies is doing an excellent job as Prince Phillip. His voice and mannerisms are spot on. He is another pleasure to see in every role he plays. I too would like to have a threesome with O'Conner and Menzies.

Coleman surprisingly feels like a real miss. I believe it's her tone, to sharp, like the actual actresses. I hear Coleman not ERII. She also speaks a bit too fast, compared to Clair Foy. The writing doesn't help, I just don't see the Queen gossiping about her private PM conversations so openly at a dinner. Season 1 & 2 Elizabeth was a by the books conservative, not an insecure gossip queen. Someone must have left the writing team. I personally like Coleman, but not as the Queen. Maybe she get's stronger towards the end of the season. Her tiaras have all been a mess. Too small and very cheap looking.

I don't feel Princess Margaret in Helena Bonham Carter portrays. Maybe it's because I don't feel like the person we left in S2 is the older version of the one we find in S3. Again, the first version of the character had a depth, this version doesn't seem like a woman that grew up in the Royal Family. Her issues feel more superficial or external. In S1 & @ it felt like an internal struggle for identity.

Phillip's Mother, what a treat of a character! Even a crazy nun wouldn't have invited a strange man to her bedroom for an interview. The palace has 100s of rooms for that. I just don't think a modest high born woman, born in the Victorian Era, would allow a stranger in her bedroom.

As always, this show makes me cringe when they depict anything American. First the JKF disaster with Jackie's ugly dress and hair in Season 2. Then turning JFK into a wife beater, to this portrayal of the Johnson Admin. Now the LBJ part might have been correct, but Lady Bird would not have sat around laughing at vulgar jokes. She always acted as a lady. The White House (one of the most famous building in the world) looked like a small school house, just terrible proportions. A CGI miss. The set was clearly a palace set reused, you could even see some gold leaf used for the Queen's PM meeting room. The room that held the dinner didn't even look close the style of anything in the WH. They just really try to bash America every time we are shown, with the exception of KY. But an American company is footing the bill, so it's not a big deal.

Princess Ann's actress and character is wonderful!

That Labor PM has so much depth, the writers appear to have really cared about his portrayal.

R48 still doesn't get it: it's Colman. R48 is useless.

Oh dear, my apologies everyone. Also there were a few typos in my statement. Please forgive my mistakes.

P.S. I don't think misspelling a name makes my statement useless. Grow a heart r49 :)

R48: Clair Foy? Useless. Drivel. B/s.

R48 = Russian troll; fuck off; no forgiveness, Ivan.

R43 I know. That's why I said what I said. Six seasons with three Elizabeths. I wonder who the third actress will be.

Since the creator/writer of THE CROWN also wrote THE QUEEN, it may be that Helen Mirren will consider playing the older Elizabeth. No announcement made yet, though. They are still filming Season 4 and it will be early 2021 before they announce who's playing Betty Windsor in S5 and S6.

I bet Mirren would consider it if either it was wrapped in a season or if she didn't have to be in every episode.

Oops, forgot to sign myself as R41 responding.

I love Olivia Colman and want to see this but I haven't watched the earlier seasons, does that matter? I mean it's not like I don't know the history.

Well shit, I just binged the whole thing, And now I must wait another two years?

[quote] They are still filming Season 4 and it will be early 2021.

It takes two years for this shit to be filmed and 10 hours for you caftan cunts to consume it. Take it easy. One episode per week, just like Payton Plaice R48

R56 no season 4 should be out in about a year. The cast change caused the last gap I think.

Everyone plese FF R48.

R55 The drama is not history. It's just drama: but if you don't think you need to see the earlier episodes of a drama, then you have to examine your relationship with drama. You also need to examine your relationship with history.

[quote] I love Olivia Colman and want to see this but I haven't watched the earlier seasons, does that matter? I mean it's not like I don't know the history.

This is why they hate us.

[quote] Well shit, I just binged the whole thing, And now I must wait another two years?

No, Season 4 will be out around this time next year.

When I said 2021 above, I meant that they'll announce casting and etc. for the next batch of shows (Seasons 5 and 6) after Season 4 has been released and viewed. It took 2 years between Season 2 of Claire and Matt and this new season, so who knows how long it will take after Seasons 3/4.

My thoughts are that I don’t watch the Crown. I’m gay but I’m not THAT gay.

Season 5 will probably be in 2022

Well, thanks Bootsy. What an important difference you make both to the thread and, no doubt, to the world around you.

Thing is I watched to first couple of episodes of the first season and I really hated Claire Foy, couldn't stand watching her. So I guess I shouldn't have asked. I'll just enjoy Olivia.

Fuck you guys.

Thoughts and prayers for R63. He wrote correct English, just, so I don't call him the Petrograd Troll.

R55 is a troll.

They skipped two major moments in the early 1970s that were pretty good opportunities lost for storytelling though they didn't much bear on the march of the story. Is it spoiling to say something left out?

Beware DLers: posters who cannot spell are probably trolls.

Is Olivia Coleman playing Elizabeth in her perpetually pissed off face period? The guy playing Lord Snowden doesn't look anything like him.

It's Colman R71. Why should anyone look like anyone in a work of fiction?

Menzies is so good that I had to FF through his conversation with Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins just now as I was cringing so hard. Simply could not convince my brain that these are just actors playing their parts.

R73 is incoherent as usual.

[quote] Simply could not convince my brain that these are just actors playing their parts.

Do you understand drama and acting R73? At all?

Some meanies on here.

r74 Okay, you really ought to stop right now because you're ruining this thread. Your responses so far haven't got anything to do with the show; your only purpose here seems to be attacking posters left and right.

Moron R77, you're not the moderator or arbitrator of this or anything. If you don't like it here, go elsewhere. Bye

Oh for some reason I had blocked R73.

"They delivered as astronauts. They disappointed as human beings."

What the hell happened to have turned Phillip into such a CUNT? I mean, honestly.

It's drama R80. Get a grip.

Fuck you r68

In all three seasons I’ve wanted a little more Margaret, a little less Elizabeth.

Gorgeousness.

r82 Don't bother. He's a shitstirrer with not a thought to offer on the show itself.

Margaret is much more fun than Elizabeth. But that's the whole point of the show: fun Windsors do not make good monarchs. When in episode two Philip was contrasting the dull Windsors (who have kept the monarchy going) versus the fun Windsors (who everyone likes more), I thought of William vs. Harry. Harry would be a disastrous monarch for the same reasons Edward VIII was--too self-absorbed, too individualistic, too much interested in having fun--but William will likely be excellent for the same reason his grandma has been: he's dependable, ruled by duty, and doesn't want to rock the boat.

[quote] Gorgeousness.

Nothing like it R84 and the period is redundant. R84 is another, or the same, troll.

Phenomenal performances so far by Colman ("Aberfan"), Bonham-Carter ("Margaretology") and Lapotaire ("Bubbikins"). Doherty was wonderfully bracing as the hilariously blunt and sarcastic Anne in "Bubbikins." And Tobias Menzies has been very good so (and very sexy!), although i have yet to get to the "Moondust" episode, which is supposed to be his best.

Charles Dance was disappointing as Lord Mountbatten in "Coup." He came across as too hard, with little charm (which Greg Wise has in spades the first two seasons in the same role)..

Colman blew my mind with her subtlety and complexity reacting to Jason Watkins as Harold Wilson (the queen's substitute shrinkl this season!) at the end of "Aberfan."

I'm only through "Coup" so far.

Tobias Menzies is what I imagine an older William will like

There is one scene at the end of "Coup" where Tobias menzies flashes a big smile and he looks just like William smiling.

R69 Do they leave out Ann’s kidnapping attempt?

They do leave out Anne's kidnapping attempt and her wedding.

My guess is that just as seasons one through three took us to the silver jubilee, seasons four through six (the end of the series) will take us no further than the Diamond Jubilee in 2012. They will not want to go further than that (they may in fact not even go further than 2002 and the Golden Jubilee). In either case, that will certainly mean no Meghan.

Why are those strange vertical creases on either side of Tobias Menzies' face?

It's just how his face has creased, I think. But yes, quite unusual.

[quote] Anal Bennett's A Question Of Attribution with James Fox as Blunt and Samuel West's mother Prunella Scales as The Queen is also worth a watch.

From now on on DL, "Anal Bennett" should be right up there with "Lens Dunham."

Pity we won't get to use it as often!

[quote] I can't believe Johnson missed Churchill's funeral. What the fuck?! So petty.

LBJ had extremely bad respiratory problems after he caught a severe cold at his own inauguration in January 1965, just two weeks before Churchill's funeral. His doctors forbade him to fly.

R69 here - yes, Anne's wedding out and the kidnapping. I can see cheating around the wedding... big set piece... but the kidnapping should have been fascinating and hilarious given the whiplash the actress delivers. Her career has just taken off and good for her.

My only criticism, and it's mild, is that every felt a little Downton Abbey, the movie to me - i..e cram 'em all in. When you think about it, much of the Snowdons rotten marriage was delivered more by exposition than anything else. (The Snowdon casting was the only one I really didn't like... although Camilla was awfully pretty. But he looked far too old for the part, to me.) I felt like they just tore through everything that wasn't single episode focused (like Aberfan, which was so well done.) And I felt they overdid some of the political backstory in terms of time chew. I could have seen and series 3 and 4 just out of series 3. But they will have their business plan.

I agree with the post upthread that the White House was an epic CGI fail. The stand in for Windsor Castle (I think it's Eastnor Castle) is not convincing. I thought the same for Balmoral in Series 2. They should have just got stock footage and established. I wish they wouldn't use Lancaster House as the entrance to BP because if you've ever been, the official entrance to the State Rooms (which none of them use) looks nothing like Lancaster House. Generally I thought the interior sets much improved and more credibly suggesting how they live and where they live. Although much of the time I couldn't quite figure out if they were at BP, Windsor, Sandringham or Balmoral.

toward the Grand Staircase off the entrance hall at BP...

r95 Could he not have sailed there with a military vessel?

[quote] I wish they wouldn't use Lancaster House as the entrance to BP because if you've ever been, the official entrance to the State Rooms (which none of them use) looks nothing like Lancaster House.

I would estimate 99+% of their audience has never been to BP.

[quote] [R95] Could he not have sailed there with a military vessel?

Across the North Atlantic, in the dead of winter, while suffering from severe respiratory problems?

[bold]NO.[/bold]

R99, you're right about that, of course. I have been to BP (on the tour!) so it sticks with me what looks like what... Lancaster House couldn't be more different than Buckingham Palace.

r100 Could've tried. But karma caught up with him in the end, so whatever. 💅

By the 1960s the leader of the Free World wasn't sailing long distances. The cost and optics would have been terrible.

[quote]r100 Could've tried. But karma caught up with him in the end, so whatever

He absolutely didn't need to.

He was the leader of the free world from 1963-68. He was far too important to be allowed to risk his life just for the sake of attending a foreign state funeral (sitting US presidents rarely attend those anyway even when healthy--they almost always send the Vice-President).

Is the Royal Family "glued to the box" watching this, I wonder. . . If so, are they digging it as much as the DL?

[quote]the leader of the Free World

Oh, boy. This is where I leave the conversation, I think. 😴

Man, the second half of this season is boring the crap out of me.

r104 Agree to disagree.

I bet Edward and Sophie watch. You KNOW Fergie will next season. She might even go the premiere, ha

"If Charles looked like O'Connor, he would have been beating away thousands of woman with a stick."

Princes don't need to be attractive to get women

I mean it would be hard to not watch, especially as more and more of the living family line is being depicted. I hope they find a way to add the kidnapping attempt in the next season. It really is a perfect little side story.

Both William and Philip have been asked if they watch it, and they've emphatically said "no." (William even said this right to Olivia Cl,man herself.) It's been reported that Beatrice and Eugenie really enjoy it, and that Edward and Sophie watched seasons 1&2 with the Queen. it was also reported that though the queen liked season 1, she was greatly upset by the portrayal of Philip in the "Paterfamilias" episode of season 2, particularly when he was shown to be uncaring and unpleasant when the young Charles was panicking at heavy turbulence when Philip was flying him home from Gordonstoun. I would bet that was the end of her watching it from now on. She would hate the current season anyway, which shows her being cold and bullying to Charles, and Anne accusing her of such behavior behind her back to Charles.

The show reportedly also does not have a watcher in Charles. He is reported to be terrified of how they'll treat him in the next two seasons with his marital problems and infidelities.

I think Prince Philip would be more likely to watch "America's Next Top Model" or "RuPaul's Drag Race" than this.

[quote] He absolutely didn't need to.

He was the leader of the free world from 1963-68. He was far too important to be allowed to risk his life just for the sake of attending a foreign state funeral (sitting US presidents rarely attend those anyway even when healthy--they almost always send the Vice-President).

Churchill was no ordinary foreigner. He was extremely popular and admired in the United States for his leadership during WWII, so much so that he became the first person to be granted honorary citizenship of the United States. I have a feeling that he must have been really ill, to miss the funeral.

[quote]He absolutely didn't need to. He was the leader of the free world from 1963-68. He was far too important to be allowed to risk his life just for the sake of attending a foreign state funeral (sitting US presidents rarely attend those anyway even when healthy--they almost always send the Vice-President).

Churchill was no ordinary foreigner. He was extremely popular and admired in the United States for his leadership during WWII, so much so that he became the first person to be granted honorary citizenship of the United States. I have a feeling that he must have been really ill, to miss the funeral.

I watched 4 episodes last night and thoroughly enjoyed each of them. I made the mistake of watching a couple of publicity interviews with Olivia and Helena and now wished I hadn't.

Looking forward to viewing the remainder of the series and watching this thread to see what others say.

Agreed r109, but I mean they liked him for his power and prestige. If he looked like Josh O'Connor he would have been treated like Prince Harry when he visited DC during the Obama years. Almost every female and gay staffer were wetting their pants when he came into the capital. Prince William was treated the same way before the Windsor curse. I have a feel many girls didn't have pictures of Prince William plastered on their walls. I'm just saying he would have had a different reception if he had been more traditionally hot.

Go to the 30 second mark in the video. it was like that everywhere Harry went during the tour.

Oops, I meant pictures of Prince Charles on their walls.

"If he looked like Josh O'Connor he would have been treated like Prince Harry when he visited DC during the Obama years. Almost every female and gay staffer were wetting their pants when he came into the capital."

Am I missing something? Because the actor looks pleasant-looking but hardly gorgeous to me. prince Harry looks like Howdy Doody. No one would think he was gorgeous if he were an average guy.

Believe it or not, Charles WAS beating away women with a stick before Diana, despite his unphotogenicness and gawkiness. The lure of having bedded the future King of the United Kingdom is very potent for many people.

I have to agree about the White House scenes. I suggest that if they return to the White House, as I'm sure they will at least once in the Diana years, they take a trip to the Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta. He has built a very close replica of the house that would look much better.

Coleman and Hurricane Bonham Carter both blew me away in their two-hander scene in the last episode. Both matched the other perfectly. Terrific acting.

They wont r120, I think it's a running joke for The Crown's creators to poke fun of the US by making us look boisterous, stupid, classless, and trashy. I assume they are not ignorant about the US, they are just trying to elevate the image of the UK.

Loved the dirty limerick contest between Margaret and LBJ at the White House.

There once was a lady from Dallas

Who used a dynamite stick as a phallus

They found her vagina in North Carolina

And her asshole in Buckingham Palace

R122 Which is another historical inaccuracy, in relation to Her Majesty. She has always been known for her affection for the US and her people.

The last scene between the sisters before the jubilee was so touching. Also that building was supposed to be the White House? Ummm I guess they got the color right?

The guy playing Angelton has a SHIT American accent.

[quote] Well, thanks Bootsy. What an important difference you make both to the thread and, no doubt, to the world around you.

You are so right my love.

The portrayal of LBJ and Lady Bird are to be taken with a grain of salt. The portrayal of her particularly is wildly inaccurate. Remember the Brits and their “little man” syndrome in movies.

Helena Bonham Carter is fine but funnily enough she has never looked more Jewish as she does here, playing and English (Margaret) Rose.

A few of the things this season don't seem plausibly scripted.

I'd heard that the royal family preferred Lord Snowdon to Princess Margaret (he was always happy and courteous to them, while she could often be a bitch to them), but it's pretty hard to believe her mother and brother-in-law would make that so openly known at her birthday party just after she told her whole family all he was cheating on her.

The conspiracy of Mountbatten and the Queen Mother to separate Charles and Camilla also seemed melodramatically played out. At the end of episode 9 when Charles was sobbing, I almost expected Leonard Bernstein's "Somewhere' to start playing.

[quote] Helena Bonham Carter is fine but funnily enough she has never looked more Jewish as she does here, playing and English (Margaret) Rose.

Then she's perfect. In one of the evil notes he left for her to find in a book in Buckingham Palace, Snowdon wrote, "You look like a Jewish manicurist." They worked that into the dialogue in Season 2.

She didn’t, though.

Finished the whole season. The last episode is really moving.

I thought it was weird how Andrew and Edward are barely in the season at all, but I guess they wanted to limit how much you saw them because they were played by different actors at different ages. But I wanted to see more of what the queen was like as a mother to all her children--we only saw what we was like as a mother to Charles (i.e. awful).

The high points of the season for me were "Margaretology," "Aberfan," and the final episode. All the principals were good except for Charles Dance (who seemed too evil, like he was playing Tywin Lannister). I felt the Queen Mother's part was underwritten, even though Marion Bailey was great.

The Charles episodes were very soapy for me.

I would have liked to have seen more of the queen's relations with Harold Wilson (I couldn't figure out from this why she liked him so much).

Weirdest surprise appearance: Emperor Hirohito and his wife (was she really so ugly and dowdy?) in "Dangling Man."

Tobias Menzies is an arsehole in person, which spoilt it for me.

Whoever said the writing team must hade changed, there is no writing team. Peter Morgan writes all the episodes. There were two episodes of S2 and two episodes of S3 which he co-wrote with other writers but mostly he writes all the episodes alone. The UK doesn’t really do writers rooms.

I will say that despite being well acted and produced, we didn't "need" the Margaret episode early on or Phil's moon-inspired midlife crisis. They just covered grown we covered in S1 and 2 and could've used the screentime for more Charles/Anne. Anne being quizzed by the elder royals about her love square with a highlight.

And as someone with a fear of flying, Phil taking that plane higher than safety had my heart pounding. I knew they'd be fine, but FUCK!

Can't wait for the soundtrack!

I thought the music was odd. Toward the end there would be this groaning sound like you heard in Titanic when the thing was taking on water. It was bizarre.

"I felt the Queen Mother's part was underwritten, even though Marion Bailey was great." Yes. But what little she got was terrific... the angelic smile, the lilting voice... that was her... the affection for book "Everything improves with a drink..." still has me cackling. Maybe she will get more to do in 4 or 5 because as I recall she was quite instrumental in moving along Charles and Diana and Ruth Fermoy, Diana's grandmother, was a lady in waiting in cahoots. Also unexplored was the extent to which she meddled/influenced decisions made by the Queen... they were on the phone daily and the Queen was quite deferential to her wishes, so the rest of family was (except DoE.)

"The Charles episodes were very soapy for me." Agreed. Poor Prince Charles. He's kind of boring in his earnestness even in scripted drama. I give O'Connor credit for imbuing him with likeability. If they keep with the character they've built, I guess he will just be victim to her bonkers.

What a bunch of fucking monsters. Abolish the monarchy.

[quote]Rupert Pendulous Jones

LOL!

Of the 4 actresses to play the sisters the one who is most flattering for the real life counterpart was Kirby. Shes gorgeous. Margaret was prettier than Elizabeth but I wouldn't call her gorgeous. But most real life figures are portrayed by better looking people. The guy playing Charles isnt incredibly good looking but hes very cute especially compared to the goofy looking real prince

Wasn't the guy who played the art curator in episode 1 also in Mr. Selfridge?

Lost me when The Queen was discussing her lack of emotions with the PM. Can't imagine anything like that conversation ever took place. Not a fan of Coleman in this season although she does get the voice right . . . better than Clair Foy.

Olivia COLMAN.

Her name is C O L M A N

I thought the moon episode was ridiculous. Oh yes, those boring astronauts, too stupid to see any larger significance to being in space but just so eager to learn what life was like in a palace. I'll bet the men's families in real life, if they were watching, were baffled and angry at their portrayals.

CLAIRE Foy.

Her name is C L A I R E

My name is bitch

B I T C H

The curator was an actor called Samuel West. He's in a ton of stuff. His father, fifty years ago, played Edward VII in a miniseries in the UK. It looks awful quality visually now and is but it is entertaining.

No, really, r141, try to be informed about your world if you wish to participate in it.

O Conner really nailed Charles. Wish he'd nail me.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The idea that Charles would model his reign on his Uncle David's. Bloody Hell!

R145 I've been called far worse by far better.

BUT they always, always spelled it correctly.

The little girl who played a young Margaret was a dead ringer for a young Margaret

Did Anne really fuck Camilla's first husband? Even if so, I thought it rather tasteless to dramatize it.

Just started. Finding the Russia stuff a little tiresome, can’t we get away from that? So far Helena Bonham Carter is my favorite, and I could never stand her. She has found the role she was born to play in Margaret.

Also, I’m currently re-reading Tina Brown’s book on Diana. I cannot wait for the Diana years. Actually, I can’t wait to see our current day depicted.

R154 while I definitely wanted more Charles and Anne, it was nice to see HBC get out of her wacky witch rut she was in during her Burton years. She has chops.

Questions I had:

1) Why did the Queen like Harold Wilson so much?

2) Was the Queen really as dismissive of and uninterested in Anne as much as Anne said?

3) Did Hirohito and his wife go to France just to visit the Duke of Windsor? Why?

4) Lord Mountbatten seemed much more of a part of the core royal family than Elizabeth's actual uncle the Duke of Gloucester or her cousin the Duke of Kent. Why?

5) Did Margaret really have such a serious suicide attempt in 1977? Or was that dramatic license?

6) Once Charles came of age he got all that "screw you" money from the Duchy of Lancaster. If his mother was really that unloving to him and critical of him, why didn't he just tell her to fuck off and live separately from her? He still was living at the palace in the Camilla episodes after the 1969 investiture.

[quote] I found OConnor's 60 second scene of Charles acting Richard III more moving than two hours of Timmy Chalamet's Henry V.

Richard II, not Richard III.

[quote] I thought the music was odd. Toward the end there would be this groaning sound like you heard in Titanic when the thing was taking on water.

That was the Queen Mother on the toilet.

Long Live Queen Anne!

Not showing her attempted kidnapping...what a waste

I rarely "LOL" at anything on TV, but that limerick about "they found her vagina in North Carolina, and her asshole in Buckingham Palace" slayed me. Helena Bonham Carter is an utter delight, exactly as I imagine Margaret to have been.

r162 I also howled at that. I can't believe I'd never heard that limerick before, it was hysterical.

There are a lot of howlers in this one... it's quite funny.

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Hi, can anyone suggest a safe online site to watch this for free? I've tried a few they didn't work.

Having seen the whole season, I think it's ridiculous that courtiers have been bitching that the show implies in the "Coup" episode that the Queen is having an affair with her friend and racing trainer "Porchey" (Lord Porchester). The show didn't suggest that at all. It instead suggested that Philip was jealous that Elizabeth was away for a month with Porchey, and that she thought he might have questions for her about her time with Porchey because of his jealousy--NOT that she had the affair. Her and Porchey's friendship was depicted as pretty chaste--he came across as pretty much a sexless pixie.

^ Agreed.

I think that Elizabeth appreciated Wilson’s frankness and lack of pretension. He didn’t try to suck up to her or have a stick up his ass.

Wilson left a thing called the Lavender List: it's really rather a larff. He must have been going mad toward the end of his premiership.

R166 you could go to Netflix and see if they have a 7 day trial period and watch the series and then cancel Netflix before the trial period ends.

R166 Got to pay or these gems will not be made anymore.

Addressing stuff discussed already.

1) Helen Mirren has already stated she is not interested in playing Queen Elizabeth again for this series.

2) Season 4 will obviously cover the arrival of Diana, the wedding, the marriage and birth of Will and Harry. Plus, Andrew & Fergie. And, the Queen's "intruder" who broke into Buckingham Palace. And, Thatcher. And, I bet we get a U.S. visit with Reagan. Oh, and at some point I bet they do an AIDS episode with Diana. Season 5 will obviously feature the "Annus Horribilus" year of 92 culminating with the Windsor Fire. Plus Diana's Death and the declining years of Margaret. And, the arrival of Tony Blair. If Five ends with Golden Jubilee year, and the deaths of Queen Mum and Margaret, that would be an obvious end. Or, start Series 6 at that point? Not sure how they keep it from getting too soapy with the antics of the younger royals and the many divorces and scandals.

3) I'm only doing a couple episodes a day so I've just seen the first 2. TBH, I'm not n love with it yet. Not actually liking HBC as Margaret...for one thing, she's too old for the role. She's 8 years older than Olivia Colman...and, looks it. And, I wish they'd stop doing episodes with US presidents. Didn't care for the LBJ and the JFK/Jackie episode was the weak one in the 3rd series. And, I agree with the sets for the White House...they were awful.

Ugh. Typos.

"Not IN love with it"

and, obviously, the JFK/Jackie episode was Series 2.

Just finished bingeing the whole season. The girl playing Princess Anne looks and acts just like her. And she has a great ass. I never cared much for RL Charles but he’s quite sweet and sympathetic here.

Not digging Coleman as ER. I think as the Queen is portrayed as such an understated stoical character the actors physicality becomes paramount in convening Elizabeth's limited emotional range. Foy worked her enormous blue saucer eyes to telegraph the slightest nuances of emotion. Coleman's opaque brown eyes convey all the emotion of a fish head. Then again perhaps that's the point.

I think Olivia Colman is doing a great job as the middle-aged Queen.

Foy was definitely better. But Colman has the voice down.

Interesting that both Charles and JFK Jr had a passion for acting when they were in school. They both married neurotic blondes.

Colman is playing the Queen as more vulnerable. Claire Foy was radiant as the young version but she could put a PM in his place with a few well-chosen words. She was perfection in the part. I don't think she would have been as good as the middle-aged Queen, even if they aged her with prosthetics. Colman is right. I watched the whole thing and thought she did a good job. B+

I have HER voice down.

R180 Actually the young Foy was more vulnerable.Coleman's Elizabeth is hardening into the pursed lip steely eyed martinet that we all know and don't love.

R173 What? HBC certainly does look younger than Colman. Love her in this part. And I've never liked her!

I just watched the wonderful episode six, with Charles studying in Wales. Damn, Josh made me feel for Charles. I didn’t quite realize that Elizabeth and Charles were so Beth and Conrad Jarrett.

You're right R182. I guess I just see OC as less confident. She doesn't seem as sure-footed as CF.

That's it R181. There's also a facial resemblance.

It's hard to compare Colman and Foy because they're sort of playing two different people.

Foy's Betty Windsor was the younger Queen, growing a steel spine and learning the ropes, while Colman is definitely the aging queen, worn down by life and by duty.

[quote]Helena Bonham Carter is an utter delight, exactly as I imagine Margaret to have been.

Margaret was an entitled yahoo and was thoroughly disliked. Think Lee Radziwill.

I've watched four episodes now and clearly, I'm in the minority because I do not care for Olivia Colman's portrayal. She is cold as a fish and entirely emotionless and thoroughly unlikeable. Menzies on the other hand deserves every award for his Philip. Bonham Carter is amusing as Margaret and the young girl playing Ann is a hoot.

The episode with Princess Alice was very well acted.

[quote] Margaret was an entitled yahoo [bold]and was thoroughly disliked.[/bold]

That's not true at all.

Margaret had lifelong friends among the fancy people. including Gore Vidal and Colin Tennant. Peter Sellers was in love with her; Pablo Picasso had sexual fantasies about her. She slept with all kinds of famous men, including Richard Harris, Mick Jagger, and Warren Beatty. She also had people she would be friends with (like Princess Diana, and Truman Capote) whom she would later drop. She was very complicated and difficult, but she could also be very charming and sweet.

[quote] Interesting that both Charles and JFK Jr had a passion for acting when they were in school.

They both had destinies mapped out for them they didn't want, and they wanted to pretend they could be other people.

R191 Margaret was considered a joke by the public.

She attended the opening of IN CELEBRATION. Both Alan Bates and a Young Brian Cox refused her advances and she pitched a fit. The Queen was unable to award Alan Bates a knighthood until after her death, and not long before he too died.

I'm most impressed with Tobias Menzies. I never thought I'd feel sympathetic toward Prince Phillip, yet Menzies makes him seem almost human.

[quote] [R191] Margaret was considered a joke by the public.

Not in the 50s and early 60s. She was the Diana of her day.

I think moon landing episode was well done but unnecessary. We KNOW he feels frustrated by his role and lack of adventure. Same with the Margaret saga in episode 2. Very well done but already covered.

I'm up to Chuck's investiture. A few thoughts --

1--HBC is wonderful as Margaret. In a few strokes she conveys the sparkling frivolity of the princess, in "Margaretology" her growing irrelevance. Throughout, her slow decline into alcoholism.

2--O'Connor looks like a god compared to homely, jug-eared Charles of the early 70s.

3--Menzies=perfection QED

4--Harold Macmillan is wonderfully portrayed, very sympathetically, not a fool, but a leader who inherited the loss of the Empire and Britain fall as an economic power. Most likely he could never have not corrected course.

5--Olivia Colman is fantastic. Excellent micro-expressions as commented above. You can see her envy at Margaret's success in the US. Her halting conversation with Porchie conveys regret at the life not lived. IMO, the lack of suspension of disbelief in Colman's portrayal is partly due to her makeup and jewelry. Her face looks glow-y, while the Queen has a matte finish. Her brown eyes may have downplayed by using the makeup the Queen used in the 60s, same goes for the hair. Colman would have looked closer to Queen in those incredible closeups where one can read so many emotions on her face.

No excuse for the chintz tiaras - just make a good copy of the Boys & Girls tiara and have her wear that. Same for the jewelry. The Queen wears large pearls, with a brooch, with huge earrings, multiple bracelets and sometimes even a tiara. Colman needs costume and make up help because she looks different from Foy. HBC doesn't have this problem because she's a supporting character and camera does not linger on her face.

Grace Kelly was the Diana of her hey day.

Margaret was seen as a professional holidayer and starfucker, not unlike Beatrice and Eugenie, although they are acknowledged to be quite nice, unlike her.

She was glam, sad-eyes and tragic, but never beloved or admired.

I think reporting on the Royals has changed dramatically over time. I can remember Princess Margaret always being photographed at movie premiers and society gatherings, socializing with Elizabeth Taylor and Mick Jagger. She was considered a glamorous jet-setter. I don't think she was well-liked, not by the public, at least, but she was always invited. On the other hand, my late Mom still remembered the 'little princesses' from when they toured Canada, and she kept a commemorative chocolate tin from that time. My Mom didn't read movie magazines: the ones I read belonged to my aunt.

R199 My Scottish mother grew up a contemporary of Elizabeth and Margaret, and identified with them. She was born same month and year as Elizabeth and felt a special kinship with her. Margaret, she always said, was “a little besom,” which is a Scottish word meaning essentially witch or bitch.

I really liked a subtle touch but it is evident throughout that Philip and Elizabeth have settled into a loving relationship and happy marriage, without being soppy. They seem to really enjoy one another and respect one another.

One of the bouquets I liked in Series 2 was the close where Philip came home. He basically pledged to monogamy. It made perfect sense given his chaotic family life and lack of a sense of belonging. For all the gossip about him over the years, and accepting it could be a total fictional choice, I thought it was an unexpected and creative choice to have made. You'd have expected them to send him down the shameless dog route.

R133 what’s the dish on Menzies? I’d heard he was a nice guy.

Regardless, he’s killing it as Phillip. The voice is great.

Tobias Menzies is a rather unfortunate name...

It beats his full name R203: Hanan Tobias Simpson Menzies (born 7 March 1974)

The entire cast feels very B-team compared to the first two series. The pacing of the season felt off as well; the second half drags. I overlooked the ridiculous therapy sessions she had with the PM but Philip in group therapy with the priests? Puh-leeze. The BRF talking about their feelings makes it seem like they're Americans.

HBC has never met scenery that she couldn't chew through, and I think that's why I like her so much in general...she doesn't do subtlety. I think she was woefully miscast in this role though.

Yeah that’s a weird one r204.

Loved the scene in episode 1 where Philip can't hear the television, but instead of reaching over about 5 feet to adjust it he gets the butler over to do it. I have no doubt that really happened.

I’m up to episode 5. Olivia Colman’s performed was expected - she’s her marvellous, complicated, fragile self. Tobias Menzies is perfect as Prince Phillip. And Helena Bonham-Carter’s been a revelation - I’ve never liked her much but she’s a fantastic Margaret.

Episode three was a real tough watch but probably the best episode of the series so far. This show is insanely addictive. I’m no fan of the royal family but it’s certainly given me a different perspective on Our Liz. x

I’ve only really liked the episode with Charles at school. I haven’t finished the season. The school house episode was a great way to compare this to the magnificent London agog episode in S1. Sadly, it missed the mark.

Maybe the Royal Fmaily and The Crown is becoming less glamorous as I watch because I miss the old cast and I’m more aware of the events and people. It’s feel less like history, even if it did occur in the 60s, and more idk real. The magic is fading

London Fog^

"Helena Bonham-Carter’s been a revelation - I’ve never liked her much but she’s a fantastic Margaret." - exactly how I feel, R208. I thought she was all wrong as, for example, Elizabeth Taylor. But as Margaret she's perfection. I suspect they're much the same type, posh and bitchy. She's even short and squat, it's perfect!

As for the channel-changing move, I read that Diana complained to Charles that he was subjecting his valet to ridiculous, demeaning tasks. Charles replied, "He's PAID to do it." Which actually makes sense to me. These are career servants of the highest order, and this is what they do. They probably don't like it when their employers do things themselves, or get too familiar.

Despite only bearing a passing resemblance to the former actors, Helena Bonham Carter, Ben Daniels and especially Tobias Menzies are fantastic and they are absolutely middle aged versions of the character see saw in the first seasons.

Not so Olivia Colman. She’s too much Olivia Colman and I didn’t for a moment think she was the Queen. HBC looks nothing like Margaret but I believed her entirely. Her big brown cow eyes are a disservice. When it gets to the point where a typical Olivia Colman character would start screeching or crying or goofing off, she has to simmer down. It makes the Queen seem less naturally cool headed and more like she’s smothering her fiery emotions which of course is not the case.

I think her best moment was in the the TV documentary when she had to pretend to be natural in front of the cameras. It played on her comedic strengths. But overall she has disappointed me.

There have been many instances where they make the staff do something simple that a mortal would have completed on their own. Only Queen Elizabeth is constantly polite to her staff. She seems like a hotel owner, polite to everyone because she sees that ultimately it’s under her management. As the owner her staff treat her with the utmost reapext and she returns that sentiment. The rest of the family act like hotel guests. Sometime appreciative but demanded and dismissive.

Elizabeth almost always says please and thank you to her staff, when appropriate. The rest don’t give a shit half of that time.

I like that they showed the staff sitting down to drink and watch the Moon Landing. Not sure if they would have been allowed or would have even wanted to take a seat, but I’m sure everyone was given a drink that day.

I’m only three episodes in, but is anyone in agreement that Olivia Colman just doesn’t seem right for this? I think she’s a terrific actress, but she’s working very hard to get the stoicism and it reads that way. Claire seemed so much more natural. Menzies is the standout for me so far.

Thank you r214 and others. I said so up thread and had a crazy poster call me a Russian troll. She is a major miss and it’s dragging down the season. Still love her as well, but no actress can play everything.

I agree R214 and R215. Trying to think of who would have been a better fit for middle-age Liz.

I am curious if they will tackle next season how Prince Charles became so willful in terms of speaking his mind to the press and the public in the early 80s about things like contemporary architecture and organic farming. The Queen must have hated that, but what could she do? if she had commanded him not to do that--just as she commanded Margaret to visit LBJ in DC this season when asking nicely did not work--he could have just refused to obey her command, and then what could she do? She couldn't lock him up in the Tower or threaten to cut off his money (he has plenty of his own), so she was stuck.

Apparently all of the Princes of Wales did not get along with their parents going back through all the Windsors and the Hanovers. Frederick Augustus, the father of George III, did not get along with his father George II; Edward VII did not get along with his mother, Victoria; Edward VIII did not get along with his father, George V; and for years Charles did not get along with the current queen. The show demonstrates why. The ruling parent knows how to reign well, and wants to ensure the heir is perfectly positioned to succeed him/her, while the heir resents being told what to do when he knows he will reign himself some day.

Olivia Colman suffers from her very strengths. Her face is a shifting kaleidoscope of emotions and the camera lingers on her in closeups. Big mistake. Hair, makeup and jewelry might have helped enormously.

Her face is dewy, with strong glow from (what appears to be) ambient light. Foy and the Queen wear a matte finish, so this is an unforced error.

Nor is her make up remotely like Elizabeth's at the time. The queen wore light colored lipsticks, less prominent brows and more jewelry, including brooches, large earrings and bracelets. Colman's tiaras are a disgrace, the production should have made a good copy of the Boys & Girls; Colman could have worn that. Elizabeth's hair was teased and structured as well. Her eyes did not dominate her face.

IMO, if Colman had receive better hair, makeup and jewelry her brown eyes would not have overpowered the close-ups. See Elizabeth photo below.

What's all this about Coleman's "fragile" depiction of Elizabeth? Rubbish. Her Queen wears steel knickers. Not once does she show any maternal affection to her spawn, Anne clearly doesn't want it but Charles is begging for it. Not gonna do get it.

COLMAN

COLMAN

COLMAN

IT'S

FUCKING

COLMAN

10 minutes into Ep 3. OMG, I'm in tears.

Episode 5 was so boring , nearly put me to sleep. Wish Josh O’connor hanged dong.

From a historical perspective I found episode 5 fascinating.

r220 Oh yes COLman!The E is silent in America. It's Col de l'île or Cole of the Isle in France where Olivia's chateau is. Coldeman in Greece where Olivia's work is.Finally the vulgar Fucking Coleman in Florida where Olivia's home is. So actually Olivia doesn't know where she is until she hears her last name pronounced.

WTF was this hat supposed to be? A helmet?

The royal protocol is the Queen and other women in the royal family have to wear hats on formal outdoor occasions.

That particular item is a hat, and apparently it was designed to evoke the rounded French-style hoods of the Tudor era worn by the Boleyn siisters at Henry VIII's court.

Don't know much about Harold Wilson, just keep hearing the Beatles' "Taxman" "Ah ah, Mr. Wilson....."

I found . the BRF thoroughly unsympathetic during the "begging" episodes when they whinge about being underpaid. Hard to watch people with such unbelievable privilege bitching about this.

My favorite episode was the "Aberfan" episode! Well, the first five minutes, at least.

Just finished Aberfan. Heartbreaking. Deja vu about the Queen being urged to recognize a tragedy, and having to be dragged along.

So far, I think Olivia Colman's acting is fine. The complaint seems to be her look? I feel like the camera lingers too long, too often, on her staring off into space.

Concerning the Aberfan episode, I think they were wrong about the crying. Everybody connected to it in real life is certain that she actually shed tears. Also, I agree with the sentiment that they had her share in the episode that a visit is too taxing while recovery is ongoing. It is the same reason, I don't like it when we demand that Presidents immediately visit the site of disasters. While victims might like to see them, it is wrong to force the police and rescue workers to stop their important work to deal with the visit of a head of state.

She stares out of windows too much. So does Philip.

Her eyes are reminiscent of an aspie Pug.

I bet Peter Morgan did "Margaretology" and "Moondust," because he wanted Philip and Margaret front and center. I don;t understand why he did "Coup" though: there is no point in giving Lord Mountbatten his own episode, even if he is to be shown dying at the beginning of next season.

I would have much rather had an episode about Anne's marriage and kidnapping (and perhaps participating in the '76 Olympics?) than "Coup."

I would also have liked to have seen more about the Duke of Windsor's funeral. Apparently it was incredibly awkward: neither the Queen nor Philip nor the Queen Mother would consent to spend any time with Wallis in the palace while she was a guest, so they delegated Charles to do it. She must have noticed and felt snubbed during her worst moments of grief.

Also there was in either 1967 or '69 an encounter between the Royal Family and the Windsors when a plaque commemorating Queen Mary was unveiled. For a show that likes to have a lot of fun with the facts, they ignored that one. A lot of the stuff they focused on seems like an odd choice. Too much on the economy. Anne will divorce her husband in due course... oughtn't they have taken some trouble to show her marriage?

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r225 Part of me thinks it was Elizabeth II attempting to imitate Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra.

The second half of the season was so boring. I've come to realise I want to see more politics and less personal drama in this show. Will we get the Las Malvinas war next season, or what?

I expect next season will deal with the IRA and the assassination of Lord Mountbatten.

They really mess up timelines this season. In the coup episode it appears that Wilson fires Lord Mountbatten and then immediately the coup is launched. However, he was let go in 1965 and the alleged coup plot wasn't until 1968. In the moon landing episode, they make it appear that Rob Woods became the Dean of Windsor around the same time as the moon landing, but he became Dean in 1962 and the the moon landing happened near the end of his time as Dean in 1969. He left the position in 1970.

Man, that July of 1969 was a busy month, eh?

r241 A bit of that is necessary and I don't mind. What is time, anyway?

In R241 I typed Robin Woods, I don't know how it became Rob Woods.

[quote] Olivia Colman suffers from her very strengths. Her face is a shifting kaleidoscope of emotions and the camera lingers on her in closeups. Big mistake.

EXACTLY

A secret: I left the show because some daft cunts keep calling me Clair!

Olivia Colman definitely has the voice down. I'm in the camp that she's wonderful. The middle-aged Queen was more rigid and traditional and she's brilliant at it, imho.

They're already filming the next season. Here's Emma Corrin as Diana...

No one's mentioned Camilla's phone voice. It's spot on. The actress doesn't look much like her though.

R246 there are times when she sounds JUST like Claire. Certain phrases...it’s eerie.

Regarding HRH and Porchie I'm sure the writers didn't want to lend credence to the rumor that Lord Porchester was Andrew's father.

r249 Good foresight on the writers part. The Earls of Carnarvon would probably sue at that insinuation right now.

R249 some insinuated it was Edward that Porchie fathered, but as Edward aged and started to look more and more like Phillip they dropped that speculation.

Porchy's long dead. You can't defame the dead in English law.

Fun fact: this is home to the Earls of Carnarvon.

....

Did anyone see Stephen Poliakoff's SUMMER OF ROCKETS with Toby Stephens, Keeley Hawes, Linus Roache and Timothy Spall? It's pretty good and is based on Poliakoff's father, who made Winston Churchill's hearing aid, and is set in the 1960s. The Toby Stephens character is forced to spy on a group of politicans, ex-military, aristrocrats and others and it turns out they are planning a coup. I had no idea it may have some possible basis in reality.

And the British people didn't want to know much about her either r237. British history is filled with foreign born queens that might have had superficial knowledge about Britain.

I liked the final episode because Margret was living out my elder-gay fantasy of being rich enough to snap up boy toys, spend an undetermined amount of time on an island doing nothing but indulge my pleasures, wearing swimwear and caftans 24/7, surrounded by sycophants that will get drunk with me.

Servants will do the cooking and cleaning. What a life she lived. I don't think any member, outside of the Queen Mother, has been able to be so self-indulgent under Elizabeth's reign. Margaret gave no shits.

The Queen is still going at 93. Margaret smoked and drank herself to death at barely 70.

r241 hopefully they will include Ann's marriage and kidnaping in the next season. By this points it's alright to flub it a bit. I;m really really surprised they'd leave out such an easy slam dunk of a situation. This also means we won't get to see the break inn, with the drunk guy wandering into the Queen's bedroom for a chat.

It's been rumored they will indeed do Michael Fagan's intrusion into the Queen's bedroom next season, r258. That happened in 1982; this season ended in 1977.

Princess Anne married Capt. Mark Phillips, her first husband, in November, 1973. The kidnapping attempt was in March, 1974.

r257 - Oh, Margaret led a glorious and fun life. There is quite a bit of myth related to her and the truth is slowly making it way out. PBS has a documentary on her life this month.

The attached article from the [italic]Daily Beast[/italic] discusses Margaret's later days. She seemed to have lived as you described, despite much tut-tutting from the PBS documentary on her life.

One tidbit

[quote]Once Townsend confessed to the romance, Lascelles had sent him into exile for two years as a diplomat in Brussels, with a promise that after that time the question of marriage would be reconsidered. During that interregnum Margaret gathered around her a nocturnal crowd that was dubbed “The Margaret Set” and she began to a have a lot of fun. Suddenly the prospect of marriage to Townsend would have looked like the end of fun.

Tragic princess, indeed.

One thing I'm really happy for next season is that the show has gone into a bit of a rut theme-wise, and Diana's introduction should change all of that. basically there are three big themes the show and "The Queen" have had so far:

1) The Queen believes that to be successful as a royal you must suppress your personality in public pretty much entirely & show no partiality.

2) Everyone else in the royal family feels their lives are wasted because they have to play second fiddle to the Queen.

3) The Queen is sometimes too slow to express emotion in front of her people when they need it, causing her problems.

Diana didn't believe in any of that, and showed personality, and did things her own way, and wasn't afraid to express (and even sometimes when it suited her, to feign) emotion easily.. The Queen was astounded at her success and popularity in doing those things.

I finished the seasons last night and found it pretty depressing. It lacks the moments of joy and fun that S1 and S2 had. That may be true to life, but it was less entertaining.

Olivia Colman is a fine actor, but she plays Elizabeth as being in a funk of despair most of the time. She lacks the spirit that Claire Foy brought to the role. At one point in S3, the Queen says that (paraphrasing), as she grows older, she has come to enjoy the authority and power of the crown at times. It would be nice to see some of those times.

On the other hand, Tobias Menzies is fantastic as Philip. His portrayal feels truer to life than the rather opaque character Matt Smith created. I enjoy HBC's performance a lot as well. It is a bit larger-than-life, but so was the character she's playing.

R259, it's a bit odd that they never mention Anne's marriage, even in passing. I can see not wanting to make a big set-piece, taking up a huge chunk of limited time, but to let the first marriage of any of the Queen's children pass without being mentioned seems a little too brief.

I was startled by the appearance of Roddy Llewellyn. I remember that scandal. I remember the breakup of the Snowdons' marriage. Maybe that's one reason I felt a certain dissatisfaction with S3. Moving well into the '70s, we've entered the time when the RF scandals were constant front-page sensations in American tabloids. From this point onward, the stories become increasing sordid and, well, tabloid-worthy, which isn't something I especially enjoy watching as fiction when I remember the actual events.

^^^"...increasingLY sordid ..."

What we know so far about Season 4:

*It will cover the years of the Thatcher government (1979-1989, although we are not sure season 4 will go to the end of that period)

*New casting for the season that has so far been confirmed; Gillian Anderson as Margaret Thatcher; the largely unknown Emma Corrin as Lady Diana Spencer (later upon marriage made Diana, Princess of Wales); Geoffrey Breton (from "Blue Murder") as Mark Phillips; Richard Roxburgh (from "Moulin Rouge!" and "Rake") as Australian PM Bob Hawke.

*Storylines confirmed for season 4 so far: Margaret Thatcher's election as PM and difficult relationship with the Queen;, Lord Mountbatten's assassination in Northern Ireland by the IRA in 1979; Charles's marriage to Diana, in 1981; the romantic triangle of Charles, Diana, and Camilla Parker-Bowles, Charles' and Diana's trip to Australia in 1983. Helena Bonham-Carter told Town and Country magazine the season will also feature in one episode Princess Margaret's removal of part of a lung in 1985--after which she continued to smoke for several years!

*It has been rumored by sources close to the show that Season 4 will also show Michael Fagan's intrusion into the queen's Buckingham Palace bedroom early one morning in 1982.

*Storylines that seem likely to be included: the 1981 Anglo-Falklands War, in which Prince Andrew participated as a Navy helicopter pilot; the birth of Prince William in 1982; the Reagan administration's relationship to the royal family; the birth of Prince Harry in 1984 that Diana said occasioned the final break-up of her marriage to Charles (he was hugely disappointed Harry was not born a girl and that he had red hair--a famous Spencer family characteristic--at birth); Prince Andrew's marriage to Sarah "Fergie" Ferguson in 1986. And if it goes far enough ahead chronologically: Prince Edward's decision to leave the Royal Marines in 1987, and his ill-starred television production of "It's a Royal Knockout" that same year with his sister, his brother Prince Andrew, and Fergie participating; and Diana;'s affair with Major James Hewitt from 1986 to 1991.

What we know so far about Season 4:

*It will cover the years of the Thatcher government (1979-1989, although we are not sure season 4 will go to the end of that period)

*New casting for the season that has so far been confirmed; Gillian Anderson as Margaret Thatcher; the largely unknown Emma Corrin as Lady Diana Spencer (later upon marriage made Diana, Princess of Wales); Geoffrey Breton (from "Blue Murder") as Mark Phillips; Richard Roxburgh (from "Moulin Rouge!" and "Rake") as Australian PM Bob Hawke.

*Storylines confirmed for season 4 so far: Margaret Thatcher's election as PM and difficult relationship with the Queen;, Lord Mountbatten's assassination in Northern Ireland by the IRA in 1979; Charles's marriage to Diana, in 1981; the romantic triangle of Charles, Diana, and Camilla Parker-Bowles, Charles' and Diana's trip to Australia in 1983. Helena Bonham-Carter told Town and Country magazine the season will also feature in one episode Princess Margaret's removal of part of a lung in 1985--after which she continued to smoke for several years!

*It has been rumored by sources close to the show that Season 4 will also show Michael Fagan's intrusion into the queen's Buckingham Palace bedroom early one morning in 1982.

*Storylines that seem likely to be included: the 1981 Anglo-Falklands War, in which Prince Andrew participated as a Navy helicopter pilot; the birth of Prince William in 1982; the Reagan administration's relationship to the royal family; the birth of Prince Harry in 1984 that Diana said occasioned the final break-up of her marriage to Charles (he was hugely disappointed Harry was not born a girl and that he had red hair--a famous Spencer family characteristic--at birth); Prince Andrew's marriage to Sarah "Fergie" Ferguson in 1986. And if it goes far enough ahead chronologically: Prince Edward's decision to leave the Royal Marines in 1987, and his ill-starred television production of "It's a Royal Knockout" that same year with his sister, his brother Prince Andrew, and Fergie participating; and Diana;'s affair with Major James Hewitt from 1986 to 1991.

The show does like to jump around in time...I'm wondering if we'll get an Anne-centric episode in Season 4 that might cover some of the stuff they haven't covered like her kidnapping attempt/wedding.

I hope they don't spend too much time on Margaret going forward...she spends the rest of her life basically just being a sad old bitchy drunk with rapidly failing health. That will get repetitious very quickly.

This is a serious question:

Are the Royals assisted in the bath? By assisted I mean washing their cocks.

If they can turn up the TV they could certainly wash a cock.

Hottest Prince Charles ever! ( it helps he has a big dick)

R267... it is entirely possible they could move the kidnap attempt back in time... it would thematically work well with the Trooping of the Colour where the shots were fired at the Queen and the murder of Mountbatten.

Gillian Anderson as Margaret Thatcher? The mind reels.

That wig makes her look like the Great Gazoo.

R268 Actually, from books I have read, Phillip is the one that put a stop to that. He was surprised when he found out that he was expected to be bathed by servants. He didn't want other people washing him and touching him or his wife. He stopped it for himself and the Queen.

You mean Ole Phil didn’t want something like this?

R66 Thanks for letting us know about Bob Hawke.

I was pleasantly surprised Sam West played Anthony Blunt a second time, as will Richard Reading in playing Hawke. He was in a local TV movie about a decade ago that was very well received.

R274 He might have been fine with that, it was male footman that were going to bathe him.

How would the bathing work for like teenage royals? Children could be an innocent affair, but did they really trust adults to bath minors? Sounds like a priests dream and a parent’s nightmare.

I'm sure they do it now because he's old and infirm.

Great scene between Charles and Wallis.

“They mean well.”

“No, they don’t.”

My husband Harry Treadaway didn’t tell me he’s in episode 10! Oh, how I love him. He should have shown dong, however.

I remember reading that the Queen was raised with very little bathroom privacy, with her governess nearly always present. She wasn't really exposed (no pun intended) to the concept of bathroom privacy until she married Philip. One of the reasons the various Royals are fascinating to me is that they really seem to be some sort of hothouse flowers, living outside normal human conventions.

R281, if true, that's only surprising because the Queen's mother, the Queen Mother (I love saying that), was a commoner, an aristocrat but not a royal, born at the dawn of the 20th century. Presumably, she grew up in more conventional and less isolated circumstances and might have passed that sort of modesty along to her daughter.

Then again, I'm reminded that on Downton Abbey (fiction, yes, but so is The Crown), the lady's maid or valet helps the mistress or master out of the bath. I would prefer not to think of O'Brien assisting Cora in the toilet. I doubt any American would tolerate such a lack of privacy ... or so I choose to believe, anyway.

R282 The rich, royal or commoner, British or American, had very little privacy in the bathroom, servants did it all. I can only guess that Phillip developed such a feeling, because even though he was born royal, he spent much of life rather impoverished and therefore had to learn to do such things on his own, like normal people.

It's called the Groom of the Stool.....don't tell Edna.

Could someone please tell me who is that portly man with grey hair and a moustache who is part of family events but never speaks? Thanks.

Henry, Duke of Gloucester. He was the Queen's uncle on her father's side.

r286 Thanks! I see now he died in '74, so during this season, right? Was he ever important in any way?

The Groom of the Stool used to help the monarch wipe himself/herself after taking a shit, but that basically ended with James I (and Elizabeth I did it for herself too). Since then the Groom of the Stool only helped the monarch get dressed. Late it even became called the Groom of the Stole.

In the days before indoor plumbing, aristocratic families has a servant whose job was to collect and empty the chamberpots. There was a small room in the house where the chamberpots were taken, the contents dumped out, then cleaned and returned to the various bedrooms. Talk about Worst Job Ever!

Thanks, R288.

R283, what does "servants did it all" mean? I'm not disputing you, but I'm curious. Are you saying that Mrs Astor and Andrew Carnegie had servants to wipe their asses? Lady Asquith? Lord Kitchener? When did this rather astonishing (to modern eyes) behavior stop?

Or are you talking more about bathing? That seems less outlandish because the relationship between valet and master or lady's maid and mistress was a very close one.

R290 I'm not sure about wiping, though the wiping of the ass was much different until the 1930s, when modern toilet paper came on the market.

This thread has deteriorated into a discussion of ass-wiping, which is not only off-topic but incredibly gross.

Please get back on topic.

Coleman’s vivid facial features aren’t a help in this role. When she needs to be self contained, she looked tragic. When she needs to look disappointed, she swallowed down rage. When she said a polite goodbye, she flashed a tight grin.

Her natural accent and lisp is strong. But she’ll get an Emmy anyway.

I’m getting deeper in and I’m liking Olivia more now. She was given more to work with in the fourth episode (Bubbikins- terrific all around) and it showed.

Princess Margaret was probably the last person on Earth to use a cigarette holder.

And to use it so awkwardly! Why does she bring her head to the cigarette and not vice versa?

r296 I think that was an 'upper class' thing back in the day.

Tobias Menzies’ biceps looked foine as heck in that polo shirt.

I'm waiting for the daddy son porn parody.

Menzies's ass also looked great in his suit in the last minutes of "Bubbikins" when he walks princess Alice around the palace grounds and the wind blew up his double vent.

A few clips from The Royal Family. The Windsors have a BBQ and Liz takes Andy out for ice cream.

The portrayal of LBJ is more fiction than fact.

The Crown is made for the consumption of naïve Americans who are none the wiser and believe everything happened as it's portrayed. Most of it is surmise and melodrama. Huge poetical license is being used. The Queen must watch for a laugh and think 'what a crock of shit!' I hate Olivia Colman. Especially as The Queen. She has this pitiful, painfully mournful look about her, she always looks sad and clinically depressed, very victim-mentality-like, The Queen doesn't look like that.

R302, that is not true. LBJ was a very crude man who liked a good time. He was called "Bull Balls" by the Secret Service because he'd often piss in front of them with his cock and balls out. That is a true story. I think they captured him perfectly.

I was surprised that Charles appeared to be entirely clueless about his uncle, the Duke of Windsor's, involvement with Nazism not to mention his traitorous acts against his own country which was revealed in the first season. Didn't Charles' family tell him anything? All he could blather on about was how his uncle gave up the throne for love alone. Did Charles really believe that drivel? Windsor clearly never wanted the responsibilities of a monarch back then and was a sniveling coward and traitor. Wallis was the perfect way out for him---plus she was the sadist of his masochistic dreams.

Derek Jacoby has been a fine actor in many roles, but as the Duke, he gets sentimental and weepy. Where's the inner bitch? Alex Jennings' portrayal of him was so much better as he showed a cynical and petulant side, a more complex character.

Charles is portrayed as clueless in general. Josh O'Connor plays him as someone intellectually deficient. The actress playing Camilla is nonplussed by him and cheerfully easy going in his presence, so it I can see how they are a good match.

Prince Philip is the most interestingly portrayed character this season.

A kick at The Crown: "It makes no attempt to be accurate."

It's too bad they veered so far into rubbish.... the line between drama and melodrama is fine. Personally I do think less is more when you're telling the story about anyone who is still alive.

[quote]The Crown is made for the consumption of naïve Americans who are none the wiser and believe everything happened as it's portrayed.

Nobody believes this is a documentary, of course they're taking license.

Yeah but there's license and then there's have characters around who've been dead for several years.

Bloody well said R305. The Duke of Windsor's "love story" was the lipstick on a very ugly pig.

There are still professional ass-wipers y'all.

Truth is, the Charles / Windsor relationship seems one of the things they got more right than wrong.

R304 Yes, I think they portrayed LBJ accurately, however they missed the mark on Lady Bird. She was exactly opposite of him, whereas he was crude and vulgar, she was refined and gentle. They also got things wrong about Emperor Hirohito, for one thing it wasn't rare for him to travel abroad, he under took many foreign trips. Also, the Empress was fairly trim and petite, not tall and big boned as portrayed.

And she was one ofd the world's most beautiful women! It's written down.

Olivia Colman is a fine actress, but she is not well cast as Elizabeth. Colman is inherently warm and good humored. She can act her heart out, but she will never embody the icy diffidence that pours out of the actual Queen. Without that steely remove, it's difficult to know how Elizabeth could be so neglectful of her own children. At the end of “Tywysog Cymru,” Colman just seemed peevish when she was speaking with Charles. She wasn't regal. That would have been a great moment to drag out "regal" and impress it on her son. Throughout the series, Colman's hair has been to relaxed and flat and that does not help her. Elizabeth has the most tense and extreme hairstyle, not what Colman has been given.

Helena Bonham Carter can't possibly be Colman's younger sister. Not at all. HBC also looks about 20 pounds overweight. She always tends to short and stout, but she looks five months pregnant in some of these shots.

Tobias Menzies strucke me as intriguing until I googled "Tobias Menzies Shirtless." All I got was pasty white nothingness. Feh.

Olivia Colman as a contestant in Numberwang!

R316 part of the problem for me is that, she is trying too hard to be steely, when every book, I’ve read about HM, states that she is very different in private, with a very playful side.

R304. LBJ never let his dislike for Kennedy known outside a tight circle of friends. He was crude in private not at a state dinner.

R304. LBJ never let his dislike for Kennedy known outside a tight circle of friends. He was crude in private not at a state dinner.

WTF did I just watch at R317?!

Numberwang, r321!

[quote]There are still professional ass-wipers y'all. —Miss Lindsey Graham

Slander!

"professional" would imply i do it for money....i do it for love darling.

Ms. Lindz

I must mention how good Lorraine Ashbourne is as the female MP Barbara Castle. She played the that part brilliantly - I know those intellectual, capable women with such scorn for the Establishment so well.

R322, I'll take the 4, the 2, the 2, the 2, the square of 47, and 11

R321, Numberwang! was a semi-regular things on a British comedy show, That Mitchell and Webb Look.

Imelda Staunton is to take over from Claire Foy and Olivia Colman in The Crown for seasons 5 and 6.

yup... seems to be everywhere...

I wonder if she will play her into Elizabeth's 80s. Or they could do one final casting of an actress to play Liz in her near present super elder years.

Charlotte Rampling might have been interesting too.

Not so, R326. Olivia de Havilland will be taking over from Olivia Colman.

R330 Actually, if they didn't care about insurance, it would be amazing if they could get Olivia de Havilland to play the Queen Mum during her last days.

Yuck, Imelda fucking Staunton as QE2 in the next two seasons.

She’s short enough I guess

Trivia: In the 2003 BBC series "Cambridge Spies" Staunton plays Elizabeth, Queen Consort (the wife of King George VI and mother of Elizabeth II) and Samuel West plays Anthony Burgess the spy and curator of the royal pictures, a role he reprises in "The Crown"

Samuel West is the son of Prunella Scales (Basil's wife in Fawlty Towers) and the actor Timothy West

"Cambridge Spies" (available free online) has a good bit of homosex and occasional flashes of dong

sorry Anthony Blunt, not Burgess, Guy Burgess was the other homosexual spy played by the flaming Tom Hollander

Not so fast on Imelda.

Good, she's annoying.

I can't believe this. I literally wanted to suggest Imelda for this role three days ago in this thread, but decided against it because I know some DLers don't like her. It's such a no-brainer and I'm so happy about it.

ick, no way Imelda could pull it off, might as well cast Julie Walters! Prunella Scales did a good Queen years ago but I think she has dementia now.

It's really easy to tell who's British and who's American amongst the commenters here.

I am not an Imelda fan and don't think she resembles Liz well at all.

Come on, R340. Gives us the list of British replies and the American replies.

Let's test your alleged powers.

Well for one, no one in The UK calls The Queen merely Elizabeth, nor do we call her Queen Elizabeth, and if I have to explain to you why then you must not be British.

I call that old bat Liz. What's my nationality?

She is not Queen Elizabeth, never has been. Queen Elizabeth was her mother, a queen consort, not a monarch. In the UK and The Commonwealth she is called The Queen, outside of the UK and Commonwealth she's (Queen) Elizabeth II (of Great Britain) No one in the UK calls her Queen Elizabeth(unless talking about her mother) or merely Elizabeth, when being serious. Most Americans have no comprehension of the royal family and their history(nor should they), Meaghan Markle included.

That was one prissy snit fit, r345.

*Meghan

Her name is Betty Windsor, bitches.

Her name is Lizard, Queen of the Reptiles.

I can’t help but feel that Olivia Colman would have been much better cast as the Queen Mum in the first two seasons (certainly much better than Victoria Hamilton, who I like but who is always “the dainty little woman” in a way that I don’t associate with the Queen Mum.) All the things that Colman does so beautifully that she has to damper down to play Elizabeth (emotional transparency, mischief, her whole easy-to-love, feel-like-I-know-her, “our Olivia who used to be a cleaner” vibe) are actually perfect for the Queen Mum.

Okay, R345 has stated the boundaries for this discussion of nomenclature.

And apparently the Cunard folks named their ship after the Queen Mother.

Live and learn.

r346 yes, I admit, it was. But it's true. It just sounds so weird (not disrespectful, just weird) to hear people call The Queen 'Elizabeth' or 'Queen Elizabeth', when for all our lives we're bombarded with The Queen or Queen Elizabeth II. Especially those of us who can remember Queen Elizabeth. It's like seeing someone use their or there instead of they're etc. Unless the average Brit has done a lot of reading, we're probably a bit daft when it comes to president protocol and history.

I call her The Queen or HM. I'm American. I try to be correct, but I don't get upset if I'm corrected (as long as isn't too rude).

If you're American why worry about the correct title or name? Not to seem rude but she isnt the queen of us.

Yeah here in the UK she’s always called “The Queen”. You’ll notice in The Crown even close members of her family call her that (when talking to third parties at least).

I thought it was interesting in The Crown when Charles would have to ask to speak to The Queen and couldn't just walk in to his mom's office or bedroom. I wondered how that worked.

R354, Because when I'm here on DL chatting with Brits, I would hate to cause offense.

I call her Lilibet, she has never objected to that when I do

[quote] Especially those of us who can remember Queen Elizabeth.

Surely someone of your advanced years should have learned by now to unclench.

The guy playing Prince Charles is far cuter than he has any right to be, I am disgusted

When referring to other members of the Royal Family to third parties not in the family, members of the Royal Family always refer to them by their titles ("The Prince of Wales," "The Princess Royal," "The Queen," etc.).

But none of us are members of the Royal Family. We can call them whatever e choose, particularly if we are not subjects. I can refer to the Queen as "Betsy" if I like, and no one can stop me.

"Cabbage" because of her unfolding cunt lips.

Charles was doable, the guy in the Crown has a nice cock but is no handsome prince himself

It's great fiction using actual people from history. I love this series very much for this exact reason - imaging what could have happened, what could have been said. Much of the President Johnson/Margaret stuff is hilarious, but obvious fiction. In reality, Ted Kennedy was at that dinner. A little research of news stories at the time shows that everyone had a very good time, but there are no reports of a diplomatic gaffe about her saying something about JFK or the Kennedys. Granted, she didn't care for the Irish, but she wasn't crass enough to say it around a Kennedy.

Liz's official name is

ELIZABETH VAGINA

ahem

I mean

ELIZABETH REGINA

R364 Princess Margaret wouldn't have thought of the Kennedy family as Irish, or regarded the Royal Family as German. The Irish-American, Italian American thing only exists in the USA.

It's not how the British psyche works.

r366 October 1989 Story from the NY Post. "A headlined remark about the Irish, attributed to Princess Margaret, caused a three‐hour work stoppage by paper handlers at The New York Post yesterday. The Post's first edition carried a front page headline saying, “The Irish Are Pigs, Says Princess Meg.” The story under the headline was based on a report by Iry Kupcinet, a columnist for The Chicago Sun‐Times, that Princess Margaret had said to Mayor Jane Byrne of Chicago dinner “The Irish, they're pigs.”"

She was a soft spoken thing, keeping her opinons to herself, was she.

Doesn't "Elizabeth Regina" translate as "Queen Elizabeth", which is supposedly used only by stupid americans?

R367 Yes, but that was actually about [BOLD] The Irish [/BOLD] (people who live in Ireland), not people of Irish descent. You aren't ethnically defined by your forbears if you were born and raised in the UK. Especially if you are white.

R367 Probably a better example is Donald Trump.

He had Scottish and German parents and may self identify as having that ancestry, we regard him as American.

If his children persisted with an over attachment to all things Scottish and German the British people would regard that as strange, they were born and raised in the USA. They have no real link to their Grandparent's birth Countries.

[quote] They have no real link to their Grandparent's birth Countries.

Except for all of the DNA they got from their father.

I'm talking about Psyche not genetics, nobody in the UK would identify as anything other than British if they were born and raised here.

Prince Charles doesn't qualify his 'Britishness' by adding that he is of Danish/Greek/Scottish/German descent, he is just British (well English really).

I assume the Irish are pigs remark was bitterness over the murder of Mountbatten. The IRA blew him up. Two teenage boys and an 83 year woman were also killed and many others were terribly injured. Doesn't excuse, but might explain. (And I'd add we paint a goodly number of groups with as broad a brush around here.)

[quote] Prince Charles doesn't qualify his 'Britishness' by adding that he is of Danish/Greek/Scottish/German descent, he is just British (well English really).

That's such a weird statement, considering the extraordinary efforts of his family to lose their actual last names and replace it with something quintessentially British. OF COURSE Charles doesn't qualify his 'Britishness.' He would never, ever, raise the subject of his actual ancestry. That's the last thing he wants anyone to consider.

It is also not so very true that if you're born and raised in Great Britain, you're British. Sort of. Maybe. Grudgingly. A bit. But if your family came from Ghana 5 generations ago, you are not going to be considered British by the natives of that little island. Ditto if your family came from Ireland. Ethnicity is everything.

This is a very big part of the reason for Brexit.

My Grandparents and Great-Grandparents were from Ireland on both sides (pretty common in North-West England).

My parents regarded themselves as British, as do I and my Brother. It's never questioned by anybody. I am totally unaware of the genetic ethnicity of my neighbors, as far as I'm concerned they are British.

All the living royals except Queen Elizabeth herself have parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents who were born overseas.

I thought there was fairly widespread prejudice against ethnically Irish people who lived in Great Britain back during this period - and that Irish given names (Kevin, Moira, etc.) were considered a barrier to upward mobility?

Imelda Staunton is the next Queen? I 'm going to have a difficult time not seeing the Delores Umbridge, her character in Harry Potter.

[quote]I 'm going to have a difficult time not seeing the Delores Umbridge, her character in Harry Potter.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

[quote] Prunella Scales did a good Queen years ago but I think she has dementia now.

All the better!

I don't know, R380... dementia cases aren't even good at mime. The Queen will have [italic]a lot [/italic] of lines...

Thankfully Fugly Imelda hasn't been confirmed.

Morgan should pull a Mirren by casting a beautiful women and uglifying her. Like Charlotte Rampling.

Prunella Scales would be much too old for seasons 5 & 6 in any case she's 87 now and production wouldn't start until 2021.

They should just keep offering Helen Mirren more money (she has an expensive castle to maintain in Lecce, Italy).

[quote]All the living royals except Queen Elizabeth herself have parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents who were born overseas.

Think this is wrong. Lilibet's paternal great-grandmother, Queen Alexander, wife of Edward VII, was born in Denmark

Alexandra, sorry

I love the term "British." I'm going to start calling myself "Americish."

R366 I think you are wrong when it comes to the Kennedys. While post assassination the British people might have viewed the Kennedys as all-American, that wasn't always the case. Remember the Kennedys were not strangers to Britain, Joe Kennedy had served as a very controversial US Ambassador to the Court of Saint James, he particularly wanted that position because of the symbolism of an Irish-American being the ambassador to Britain. When Kathleen Kennedy married William Cavendish, and later was connected to Lord Fitzwilliam, part of the controversy to both families was not only religion but also the fact that she was Irish. Remember, at this point in time aristocratic British families had no problem with welcoming American socialites, so the only reason she would be viewed as questionable is because she was Irish Catholic.

Swedish

Spanish

Finnish

Irish

It's not that rare nor strange a suffix, r386, despite what you are implying.

There've been Anglo-Irish in the Cavendish family since the 1700s. They still own Lisgar Castle.

R389 Yes, Anglo-Irish Protestants not Irish Catholics. If you don't think there is a difference you know nothing about the history of Britain, Ireland, and the US.

When I go to Britain I get endless questions about my ancestry. I have a very "ethnic" surname but I look as white as Chris Evans. They're all very curious.

Scottish

Polish

R387, you distinguished between religion and Irish. Fuck off you pompous ass.

R391 It's probably just curiosity rather than out of any racial discrimination, unless it's Khan and you are coming from Pakistan on a student/tourist visa.

R387 People from the Irish Republic (Eire) have unique access to the UK, they can live and work (or claim benefits) here without any of the usual immigration process. It predates any EU arrangements by decades and will continue even if Brexit happens. They are effectively honorary UK citizens from birth.

R393 Because when it comes to Ireland, religion has been the driving issue. Throughout the history of Britain and Ireland, religion has been the faultline. You had the Protestant Anglo-Irish Ascendancy ruling class, and the Catholic majority. You can't separate the religious aspect of the Irish/British issue anymore than you can from the Israel/Palestine issues.

R394 Yes, but that doesn't negate prejudices in the past. The Common Travel Area, was implemented between the UK and Republic of Ireland, because while they have had many problems with one another, they both had to acknowledge that as a result of having been ruled as one country each of them had large numbers of citizens with strong familial and economic ties to both countries. Ireland didn't want to lose access to the Irish immigrants in Britain, who tended to be wealthier than many Irish in Ireland. And, many rich British families in Parliament didn't want to lose access to their homes in Ireland. Irish immigration only became more acceptable to many in the UK, when other "darker" waves of immigrants started coming in large numbers.

The "ish" implies these groups are not genuine. Sad.

R395 bit of a North/South divide in England with Catholics

I'm from the North-West of England which has historically always had a large population of Catholics (even after The Reformation), discrimination against the Irish Catholics hasn't ever been an issue here.

R397 Do you consider Liverpool to be Northern? It wasn't always easy sailing for Irish Catholics in Liverpool. I have family, that migrated first to Liverpool, then finding that they weren't welcome immigrated to Savannah, GA. The interesting thing is that after moving to the US, they actually became Protestant.

WTF is this? Ancestry.com? Whole other thread.

Agreed, r399. Nothing is more boring than Irish genealogy from people who don’t live in Ireland.

Back to topic here's an interview with DL fave Josh O'Connor.

Was Elizabeth really so cold and harsh to her children? The episode where she sends Charles to Wales made me dislike her intensely.

They haven’t done a great job with Camilla’s character. No indication of why these men were fighting over her. Did she have a magic twat or something?

When Elizabeth was on her way to the investiture she looked as if she were going to an execution.

r403, they suggest the connection between Camilla and Andrew Parker Bowles is primarily physical. The actress who plays Camilla has great tits and a great ass, and everyone seems to think Parker Bowles is a total stud on the polo field (which was apparently true in real life--he got tons of women).

But they suggest the reason she and Charles have such a connection is she genuinely thinks his dorky sense of humor is really funny. Which does happen some times.

I don't understand why the producers had Andrew Buchan there to play Andrew Parker-Bowles but did not strip every stitch of clothing off him and let the camera linger over his most intimate parts. What a lost opportunity!

Buchan was smoking hot in "Broadchurch" and I was dee-lighted to see him return in "The Crown." But we didn't get to see enough of that tasty bon-bon.

I know. After Matt Smith's bum in Series 1 I thought sure we'd get a bum or two in 3.

[QUOTE] It takes two years for this shit to be filmed and 10 hours for you caftan cunts to consume it.

Can’t blame caftan-wearing Boomers for this one, it’s Milennials who practice the art of binging on streaming shows.

“OMG Kayla, what did you do last night?”

“Oh, Seamless and Netflix. I’m currently binging on Season 2 of The Golden Girls. Want to have brunch tomorrow?”

I thought the scene with the PM reciting obscene limericks to the Queen was ridiculous.

Yes, they were funny, but there is no way a PM would say the word "arsehole" to the Queen.

It was just lazy writing. They thought it would be HILARIOUS to have someone say those things to the prim Queen. Like scenes in movies where nuns swear.

But this isn't Monty Python. Or Benny Hill. Yes, it was funny, but it was so removed from reality to be stupid.

[quote]It was just lazy writing.

The writing is the only real fail in this. Wild liberties with fact and some implausibilities in the plot (like Wilson and asshole.) It's a shame because in 1 & 2 you felt like they were interpreting real events credibly and largely consistent with what we know about the characters, while accepting no one really knows what anyone said in private. But it felt believable. This often seems less so and kind of detracts. I hope they tighten up their game in 4 and then in 5 & 6 because so much of that is reasonably fresh in viewers minds. It's one thing to turn the long dead Duke of Windsor into a cartoon character but living people I think are due an effort to be restrained with the creative license. It isn't entirely fiction and what is the need to interpret them in ways that harm the perception of them while they live?

Camilla portrayed here is the best Camilla has ever looked. I loved Camilla walking around in short mini skirts with her tits out in The Crown. The actress had the voice down and looked enough like her than there wasn't a huge suspension of disbelief. They really didn't develop that story at all. I'm hoping we get the scene next year where Diana storms into Camilla's birthday and they have it out.

The whole "Margaret acts like a drunken whore at the White House and Lady Bird LOVES it!" episode was silly.

And people in California found Margaret to be completely obnoxious.

Having seen Josh O'Conners cock has made me really warm to the Charles character.

There was a remark that the Duchess of Windsor had had so many facelifts, which was true, but the actress who played her looked as if she had never had one.

If you look at pictures of the Duchess from that time, her face was very smooth. But the actress that played her was very old looking.

They should have cast someone else or gotten rid of that line.

Wallace was Geraldine Chaplin (who I’m shocked is only 75, she looks 100)!

wallis at the funeral of the duke

R316 they say he is good in bed so...

I mean

Since this show plays so fast and loose with the facts, they should have shown Charles, Anne, Camilla, and Andrew Parker-Bowles having a four-way in a Luton motel.

Is Tobias Menzies a gay?

Camilla was a good time girl and not entirely low born. So she was fun because she smoked, drank and spread her legs.

It's not rocket science.

R420 someone got some tea to share surelly

He was partnered with Kristin Scott Thomas for awhile...

R420 one would never know he is so private but I dont think so

The first two seasons were much better than this season has been. I would have preferred they would not have played fast and loose with the truth.

I agree that the writing was off this season.

It seems as if there was a lot of treading water.

Another problem: Each episode was treated like a separate vignette, as if in separate worlds.

For example, in the first several episodes, it was as if the Queen didn't even have any children. And then Charles and Anne play central roles to one storyline -- and there they are, as adults.

The whole storyline of the queen mother interfering in Charles and Camilla's romance is wrong. I don't think the palace cared if Charles married Camilla, the real story is that Charles was dithering and not making up his mind about her so she married Parker Bowles.

The Foy episodes were a tapestry of tale weaving based on the personalities in the Windsor family. Things happened in context and flowed.

The Coleman episodes are simply that. Little Christmas trees hung with the ornaments of an event.

Series 1&2 were one large episode.

Series 2 is a bunch of stand-alones.

That is my big take-away.

I agree, R428. Some of the casting was off as well in season 3. The actor who plays Tony, for instance, looks so fucking old.

R411 My only problem with Camilla in this season of The Crown, is that instead of thinking I was watching the young Camilla, it felt more like late60s/early70s Joanna Lumley.

Camilla was NEVER as attractive as the actress playing her.

So to be clear, Charles and Anne we’re screwing two people who went on to marry each other?

[quote]I don't think the palace cared if Charles married Camilla

I don't think that is true. Charles was the heir to the throne. And Camilla was a goodtime girl, the type you have as a mistress, not make queen.

I’m confused if you are an exile, how is it that you can be buried there when you die. Doesn’t that extend beyond death too?

So do you think they just used the same set of corgis through the whole series, or did they switch them out to reflect the fact that they would have died and been replaced? Is the Queen one of those people who just keeps the same names when replacing dogs, or did they each get a unique one? Is there a royal pet cemetery for the dogs and horses?

The Duke of Windsor was metaphorically exiled, not legally.

The dogs are buried on top of the Duke of Windsor.

R432 yes

[quote]Prince Charles doesn't qualify his 'Britishness' by adding that he is of Greek descent

Well, yes, quite.

[quote]No one in the UK calls her Queen Elizabeth(unless talking about her mother) or merely Elizabeth, when being serious.

Are you accusing us of being . . . serious?

R439 Not quite. Phillip ergo Charles have not a drop of Greek blood in their royal veins. They are Danish/Germans.

It was the late 60s-early 70s, surely everybody in that social circle would have been drinking, smoking and shagging around, R421.

Back then, the archaic rule that the male heir to the throne must marry a virgin was still enforced. It was ridiculous, but that's the way it still worked in the royal family. Hence, Charles couldn't marry Camilla (she had a bit of a reputation) and was made to marry Diana.

If Charles and Camilla had been permitted to marry in the 70s, everybody would've been much happier and things would've gone much more smoothly.

except for us that is

I was pissed they made the Duke and Duchess of Windsor sympathetic characters. They were not!

R445 It is because the world has bought the whole, "he gave up the throne, for love" argument. It is therefore difficult to tell the truth, about how completely horrible both of them were. Though, I must say I have come to the conclusion that we should all be grateful for Wallis bewitching Edward, because I'm afraid of how WWII, and its aftermath, might have turned out if he had remained on the throne.

Yes, the Duke and Duchess were hideous people in every way. It really was for the best that Wallis came along and Edward abdicated, because his reign as king would've been a disaster.

It was puzzling because in seasons 1 and 2, the writers clearly established the Duke and Duchess as shallow, bitchy, money-grubbing cunts. Plus Edward as a traitor.

Which reminds me that Pip Torrens as Tommy was just brilliant---what a shame that he only made a cameo appearance telling off little princess Margaret.

The changes Charles made to his investiture speech pissed off a lot of people in Parliament r402. Of course Elizabeth was going to be stern with him. I think that was fair of the Crown to portray that way.

Yes she was cold, but Charles needs to learn to think about his behavior.

I'm shocked they skipped over the kidnapping attempt on Princess Anne. That seems drama made for TV. They skipped over Anne's wedding too.

Josh O'Connor's Charles and Erin Doherty's Anne were the highlight of this season.

I'm really liking Anne and the actress who portrays her.

R450 I'm hoping the kidnapping will be dealt with in some sort of flashback, because it seems a strange thing to skip.

[quote]Which reminds me that Pip Torrens as Tommy was just brilliant---what a shame that he only made a cameo appearance telling off little princess Margaret.

Except that was surely another thing that never happened.

Here's Princess Anne talking about the kidnapping attempt. I don't know if TV could ever do justice to a real event like this. I always admired her, but after I saw this clip, I fell head over heels in love with her.

The treated David and Wallis much less sympathetically in prior seasons, as nazi sympathizing selfish egotists.

Yes there was literally an entire episode devoted to that last season r455. It seems some people forgot the Crown covered their Nazi shit at length. . Everyone is a three dimensional person with good and bad qualities, including the Duke of Windsor.

R454 That clip is very interesting because Princess Anne is so much more intelligent than her husband. And she knows it, which is why she keeps cutting the idiot off.

Why is she styled like Miss Manners?

Anne was probably the smartest one of the bunch....not a high bar

Actually, Anne seems really smart for any person, not just a Windsor in that clip. Very quick and funny.

What I liked the most (and which was never shown, publicly) is that Anne told her kidnappers "Not bloody likely". She has nerves of steel, which I think is huge advantage for the British monarchs. I've only ridden a horse a couple of times, and its never been easy/

[quote]I've only ridden a horse a couple of times, and it's never been easy

And you call yourself a whore!

It has been said that Phillip and others in the family have observed that out of their four children Anne would have made the best heir.

holy crap, Captain Mark Phillips was a hunk!

[quote] Can’t blame caftan-wearing Boomers for this one, it’s Milennials who practice the art of binging on streaming shows.

I wrote that post and I’m a 42-year old Gen-Xer.

r420 I don't know if Tobias Menzies is gay, but he did break up Kristin Scott Thomas' marriage

What is this bullshit about Edward and WWII? Had he tried to swing Britain Germany's way, the government would've gotten rid of the monarchy. The monarchy had no real power at that time. Someone like Churchill would've used the media and public opinion to run Eddie and Wally out of the fucking country, then find someone like George or similar to step in.

He had authority and prerogative powers. Back then he could have dismissed the prime minister or the entire government or dissolved Parliament. As well the armed forces swore loyalty to the Crown, not Parliament, so he had the potential to command them. Further he had the power of charisma. He was enormously popular with the public. He was the Diana of his day as a young man. Prior to abdication the politicians understood the extent of his popularity.

Also, he was more of a pacifist and the first war, which saw almost 900,000 Britons died, three times as many as would die in WWII and thousands of times more than any other war before or since. The First World War left enormous scars on the country (on all countries) and was barely twenty years prior. Most of the young men who died would have only been in their late thirties and early forties had they lived. Government knew all this. Look at what is happening in America today. Politicians ignoring subpoenas, laws and norms - and getting away with it. All it takes is the nerve to do it. Politicians no doubt sensed the same risk in him.

Off the throne and in exile, the fear was the Nazis would invade and restore him to the throne and, an invaded British public would comply rather than endure invasion. Britain was at risk of invasion as long as the Nazis were a strong fighting force. France is only twenty miles away at the narrowest point and the Nazis held it.

r425 Every episode of this show is fictional. You do realise that don't you? Other than getting the names correct, most of the words spoken on these shows cannot be based on fact. The truth must be played with to make this more interesting television.

I disagree. It's a fascinating canvas. If you can't make it interesting without going wild with the truth, what kind of writer are you, really?

Example... they totally bailed on Princess Anne's engagement and wedding (which could have been rich with humour given the actress and the writing for her) and they ignored her kidnap attempt, which was pretty dramatic. Yet they wrote total fiction for Margaret's dinner at the White House. HBC had heaps of scenes to do her thing (which I think she did very well and with restraint) so why forgo the actual, with room for creativity, in favour of the absolutely fictional? I don't get the choice when it doesn't really improve the quality of the product. But maybe the suits gave a note that said go nuts and, enjoying a paycheque as much as anybody, nuts they went.

Why on earth did the producer and writers give Princess Margaret two entire episodes in this third batch of 10 episodes? Princess Fucking Margaret and Helena Bonham Carter got 20 percent of the air time all to herself/themselves. Margaret was never in line for the crown. She's terribly incidental to the story of the crown in the 20th century and HBC is not so unusually effective in the role that her performance would justify all this attention.

All they have to do to give justice to the Margaret story line is let her throw one fit in Buckingham Palace and then show her staggering on the beach in Mustique with a gin bottle in her hand and mascara running down her face. Her death could be handled with some bold type on a newspaper headline. Done. She's not that interesting and her story is not integral to the tale of the Crown.

The first two seasons were extremely good. This time around, it's like a telenovela with posh accents and a big budget.

Wallace and Edward had a "deal" with Hitler. It was in the letters of correspondence between them. They actually gave Hitler some military positions of British soldiers - they were responsible for British deaths. They continued to correspond with Hitler. He promised them after he won the war they would be placed back as Monarchs - KING and Queen. That's when they got sent to the Bahamas - where they managed to launder money for Hitler. Churchill decided it would be too demoralizing for the British people if they were told the truth.

Churchill knew all of this. American intelligence knew all of it too. If Elizabeth and Prince Charles still had a fondness for him in the 60's then they are complete fools. The Queen Mum still hated him. It's the one thing I will give the old bat.

r470, the show is about Elizabeth II, and Philip and Margaret are the two most important people in her life.

The Queen and Princess Margaret were very close, despite the huge differences between them. They were a real study in contrasts.

I loves you, Porchie!

Don't let him take me

Don't let him handle me and drive me mad

If you can keep me

I wanna stay here with you forever and I'll be glad!

Coming right up...

r475, a sex criminal playing a sex criminal? Is this real?

Of course that isn't real. It's a parody website.

No one is hiring Kevin Spacey. And he is several decades too old to play Andrew in this time period.

One thing I don't understand is why The Crown absolutely had to have different actors for season 3. Did all of the original primary actors want out or did the producers/writers doubt that they could pull it off?

I thought good acting meant someone with talent can create the illusion of being anyone at any age. Glenda Jackson in the Elizabeth I BBC series played Elizabeth from a teenager to the monarch on her deathbed, for instance. She was superb in every episode.

It was announced the show was changing casts every 2 seasons on the day this show was announced as a thing r478.

That was always the creative vision. Brits are more used to that, think how many Dr. Whos there have been. To me watching how new actors interpreted portrayed the characters was part of the fun of this season.

It is interesting to think how the drama with Prince Andrew now, is inevitably going to change how The Crown handles him in these upcoming seasons.

If it stays true to form, (each season about 10 years) the final season six would end around 2010. Unlikely they will bring it into the current era. koo stark and the hot mess fergie and divorce will likely be covered, but not the epstein scandal

I wonder how the death of the Queen will affect the show.

Once she's dead, people may not like her being portrayed as an icy bitch. At least not right away.

R482 You're kind of missing how it works, the UK is never without a Monarch.

The Queen is Dead, God Save The King.

The Queen Mother made to 101. Elizabeth could still be kicking around when Season 6 ends. Even if she's not, it's not going to go beyond about 2010

Some of the dialog they give these characters is ridiculous. As everyone knows, NOBODY in this family is known for their intellect.

I know she was a desperate alcoholic, but some of the dialogs they gave Princess Margaret, in a few of her sane moments, was pretty good. I especially liked her "happiness" soliloquy.

The thing about this season that r470 and some other posters touch on is the truth is, the story of the older generation is rather settled. Elizabeth, Phillip, Margaret have grown into who they are and a lot of their emotional arcs this season basically have them going in circles. (Margaret is sad about playing second fiddle, Phillip feels lost. We did those stories)

There is a reason that many people feel the best episode of the season was episode 6, the Prince Charles episode. There is natural drama and excitement that comes from watching someone trying to grow into their role and finding themselves as a person, which was the story of Elizabeth at first in this show.

You can't be afraid to bench the Queen and the older generation, and have them play a supporting role to the younger generation of royals. The show showcased it was willing to do that with ep 6, to great success. Hope the writers felt the same way when they watched.

My enthusiasm has dwindled, knowing that Imelda Staunton will be taking over in Season 5.

Here's Wallis, the Duchess of Windsor, looking pretty ancient.

Netflix released a press release specifically to say that wasn't true r488. See the link at r336.

[quote] My enthusiasm has dwindled, knowing that Imelda Staunton will be taking over in Season 5.

Then cheer up, because it was all just a rumor that took on a life of its own.

Netflix two days ago officially [bold]denied[/bold] Imelda Staunton or anyone else has been chosen yet to play the Queen in Seasons 5&6 of "the Crown."

This is a very recent podcast interview with Peter Morgan for The Hollywood Reporter.

He states very clearly the show will definitely NOT go up to the present day or beyond (i.e. to the queen's death, even if it happens while the show is still being aired)--he thinks it's impossible to dramatize contemporary events without it turning into journalism rather than fiction.

So: expect no Meghan, no Eugenie's wedding, no Andrew-gate.

This is a very recent podcast interview with Peter Morgan for The Hollywood Reporter.

He states very clearly the show will definitely NOT go up to the present day or beyond (i.e. to the queen's death, even if it happens while the show is still being aired)--he thinks it's impossible to dramatize contemporary events without it turning into journalism rather than fiction.

So: expect no Meghan, no Eugenie's wedding, no Andrew-gate.

From what I remember of his pitch of the show was that it was supposed to roughly cover 1964-2004. I assume Season 6 will end somewhere around there.

The idea of there being a Season 7/8 going into the present day was always fan wishful thinking.

Gah, 1947-2007*

Gah, 1947-2007*

Staunton played the Queen Mother in Cambridge Spies for the BBC in 2003

Why was season three recasted with different actors? Clare Foy, Vanessa Kirby, Matthew Good, and Matt Smith were excellent. They could have been aged with skillful make-up. This ruins the continuity. Olivia Colman is an excellent actress, but Clare Foy resembles Queen Elizabeth. I adore Helena Bonham Carter, but Vanessa Kirby resembles Princess Margaret.

This is a huge disappointment.

Get over it already r498.

Spoiler alert, there will be another cast change for Season 5 to be a huge disappoint for you again.

Ben Miles and Matthew Goode are HOT as hell, as Peter Townsend and Tony Armstrong-Jones.

Nothing was "recasted." The actors were recast.

I really LOVED the Prince Philip, Princess Alice story line. It gave so much backstory to Philip and you can understand him be used by Uncle Dickie. I also liked when Dickie and Alice had their survivors conversation. The Battenbergs did well.

I laughed out loud at the "Jewish manucurist" insult being brought up again, by Margaret herself this time, followed immediately by "You look like a Maltese landlady"!

[quote][Charles] is reported to be terrified of how they'll treat him in the next two seasons with his marital problems and infidelities.

He has good reason to be. I recall watching two TV movies about his and Diana's relationship, back in the mid-90s. In both, Charles was portrayed as cold and uncaring, so while I'm eager to see how the show will portray the marriage, I'm not surprised that Charles isn't so keen.

Both TV movies re-enacted Diana, while pregnant with William, falling down the stairs (in one of the movies, it was shown as Diana falling by accident while in mid-argument with Charles, in the other, it was shown as Diana doing it deliberately after Charles walked away from an argument with her). I wonder if The Crown will portray that?

Josh O'Connor has said that viewers may not be so sympathetic towards Charles next season.

Everybody's excited for Diana next season.

*manicurist

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

How dumb are you people that you don't know that the past tense of 'cast' is CAST not CASTED. He was cast. She was cast. They were cast. Good lord. How is there an entire generation that doesn't know this?

Geraldine Chaplin played Wallace? Sweet fucking Jesus time has not been kind to her.

Writing gets a C from me. Do we really need you be beaten over the head with foreshadowing episode after episode? WE GET IT. Charles is going to be a redux of his great Uncle. You don't need to bring it up time and time and time again. It's like your obnoxious friend who tells a bad joke and then keeps asking you if you get it over and over again until you politely laugh.

Is Charles really such a mess? I wasn't aware of that. But I don't follow him very closely.

Prince Charles will be portrayed as a bumbling fool, for the way his marriage to Diana played out. That's the only version of Charles that any people will every know, and I don't agree with it.There's been a sort of reckoning, recently, and people are seeing him somewhat differently. The tabloids are now calling him the savior of the monarchy. He's been showing he can be tough, when necessary. His recent trip to New Zealand, and the Solomon Islands, shouldn't have been overshadowed by his younger brother's behavior. I'll post a clip that I think was deleted in another thread.

in R507, I see Helen Mirren. Well, Helen ten years ago.

We're really going to argue cast vs. casted?

Don't sweat the small stuff, you may be literate, but you come across as dumb as the casted.

proper use of the language put you is a separate caste

Great documentary on Prince Alice. What a woman.

You can definitely see flashes of the self-pitying, aggrieved side of Charles in season 3.

At the end of the 5th episode, Tobias smiles and looks like Prince William. Tobias is a gem in this series.

[quote]Geraldine Chaplin played Wallace? Sweet fucking Jesus time has not been kind to her.

I actually enjoyed that her face hasn't been pulled for the gods. It's refreshing.

Matt Smith is a terrible actor and I'm so glad he's gone.

Olivia Colman and Helena Bonham Carter are both fantastic. I did feel badly for Bonham Carter in that big floral atrocity during her dinner with LBJ; it made her look 50 lbs heavier than in any other scene. The original gown the princess wore was a beautiful emerald green and I wish the show had used a similar design.

I thought the gown Margaret wore to the White House looked like Florida patio upholstery.

I was glad to see that she wore nothing like that.

Why would the show take such license, making both Margaret's language AND dress louder than they were? She didn't need any help!

Even when Princess Margaret indulged in bright patterns it was only for casual settings and still far more chic than the gown used in the show!

Their was a brief mention that Camilla was not intact but the fact is that in those days, the prince had to marry a virgin, which Diana was. I think she even had to be examined by a doctor to make sure.

I was a little surprised to see them showing Anne having sex before marriage. That would have been totally taboo as well for a young women in her position.

No, I don't r513. But you do, for claiming that good grammar isn't important.

*There* was a brief mention...

[quote] Geraldine Chaplin played Wallace?

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

[quote] Their was a brief mention that Camilla was not intact but the fact is that in those days, the prince had to marry a virgin, which Diana was. I think she even had to be examined by a doctor to make sure.

They absolutely did not "have to be"--it was not required by any sort of law. It was just a ridiculously outmoded custom (the last woman who had married a man who was at the time an heir to the throne before Diana was may or Teck back in 1893).

Diana was the last woman to marry an heir to the throne to be subjected to a medical exam to ascertain whether her hymen was intact. It was a stupid custom anyway--women can break their hymen in ways besides vaginal intercourse--and of course it was already ridiculously outmoded and offensive by the time Diana had this exam performed on her in 1981.

Kate Middleton did not have to undergo this humiliation in 2011.

r526, you're correct, of course. It was not required by law or any official rule that a royal bride had to be a virgin. It was more of an expectation. I remember there was the fear that awkward facts or photos might surface later about the future queen who'd had a "past." Britain's tabs would have been all over that. "I Had Her First, Claims Jilted Lover."

Good grammar is important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I enjoyed some of the foreshadowing. I’m far from a royalist but even I know that Diana had complained in the press about being one of three in her marriage (the third being Camilla, of course) which is exactly what “Princess Anne” said would happen to “Charles” if he were to marry “Camilla” (the third bring “Andrew Parker Bowles”). I enjoy stuff like that.

R501, thank you for the clarification. I wasn’t sure if the proper word was recast or recasted.

R526, that’s because we already knew that’s Kate’s Hyman wouldnt have survived college with Will if she intended to keep him interested. I’m sure she was down for anything under the moon and stars In the bedroom. . Social Climber are the best lays, until you marry them, then they want to pretend they are and always have been June Cleaver.

I don't know if this appropriate or not. I couldn't finish the one episode. It hurt too much. I'll go back and revisit it, maybe with some wine or gin and tonics, but I can't do it straight sober. I knew it was coming, but I ended up gasping and shutting off the TV (Mary! me all you like).

The terrible CGI will take you right out of the moment r532. It’s another weak episode form this season. Somehow the Fog episode form S1 was 10x as powerful and we only see one death. They had a golden opportunity with this storyline but missed the mark by a mile.

In your opinion r533. Many people found it quite powerful, I did, and obviously r532 did as well.

Of course it’s in my opinion r534. This site is nothing but opinions, especially a thread to talk about a TV drama lol

[quote]The terrible CGI will take you right out of the moment

I disagree. I thought the CGI was surprisingly good -- almost as good as the CGI that makes you seem human.

[quote]Kate Middleton did not have to undergo this humiliation in 2011.

Did the Queen pretty much set Kate and Wills up for roger city in Kensington Palace?

I’m hoping for color blind casting for the next set of royals.

[quote] Of course it’s in my [bold]terrible[bold] opinion [R534].

FIFY

R538: I agree! I want Diana to deliver William and he be BLACK!

R540 To bad this won’t come soon enough, stage momma Megan could have had Archie’s first credit before the age of one!

[quote]Geraldine Chaplin played Wallace?

well both were horrible racists, though George did repent, Wallis never did

Three episodes in, I'm disappointed. Neither the cast or the plotting live up to the previous seasons, IMO. But I will hang in there...

R543 I've now half way through and I have to agree with you. The writing and direction aren't as good as Seasons 1 and 2. And, I'm not in love with the recastings other than the fantastic Jane Lapotaire as Princess Alice.

And, it's been mentioned already, but they're just rehashing what we've established: the Queen is bitter she didn't get the "ordinary" life she should have had as a "Princess of York" raising horses; and Margaret and Philip always bitter about their supporting roles.

And, the Aberfan episode everyone is raving about was....a bit meh. Heavy handed and obvious. And, the whole "the Queen can't cry" bit was dumb since Olivia Colman's eyes are ALWAYS filling with tears.

The only good part was Wilson getting his ass chewed out.

I had to revise my opinion of Colman. In the last two episodes, she hit her stride and really got it. The last two episodes were in fact very good all around.

I said earlier that Princess Margaret was in green when she met with LBJ, but it was pink. Lady Bird Johnson was in emerald green. I know why the show wanted to spice up the gown somewhat but what they chose was just too much and too unflattering.

I'm halfway through the "Aberfan" episode and so far it's fine. I'm in the minority I think because I find Colman to be incredibly convincing as the Queen. The writing however is much weaker, and there are scenarios where the dialogue doesn't capture the personalities at all. Menzies is quite good as Philip but the speech he gives about the dull and reliable Windsor versus their "dangerous" sibling was just terrible.

[quote]Menzies is quite good as Philip but the speech he gives about the dull and reliable Windsor versus their "dangerous" sibling was just terrible.

And largely done in the previous series. The writing choices for three are quite poor.

R546 Ladybird looks great in that photo

R546 Petite Porkchop couldn't pull it off. C'est tragique.

I didn't mind HBC in the White House dress at all--she's fatter now than Margaret was in 1965, but she's still cute, and the vibrant dress got across how she was. Plus no one really has memories of that dress the way they do of the clothes the women in the royal family wore for Charles's investiture or that the queen wore for the Jubilee.

Margaret was 35 in 1965, HBC is 53.

R551 yeah it's hard to believe shes in her mid 30s in the first few episodes. But the second half of the season and next season HBC's age range with fit better.

Bonham Carter looks so much better than she has in recent years though, I know she doesn't look 35 but she still looks good.

HBC looks like shit. She's promoting The Crown looking like she just rolled out of bed.

She may look like shit in real life but she has looked very good on the show. She's starting to always look like a rumpled bed with the "Aberfan" episode but she's also drunk 24/7 by then, too.

She always looks like that, R554, it's pretty much her thing.

R551 Another reason why they didn’t need to change the cast for this season.

Is anybody else having trouble with Netflix? All my smart channels are fine - but Netflix is blurred and has a ribbon like thing along on top of the screen. What the hell?

Netflix gets wonky on me occasionally, r558. It lasts for a day or two and then it's fine. And that happens on all my devices at the same time.

A WaPo piece about Princess Alice, Prince Philip's mother. As a young woman, she was beautiful. Click through to the pic as don't think WaPo links here.

The picture without WaPo.

Unlike what is portrayed in The Crown .Phillip kept in touch with his mother Princess Alice throughout her life. She was at his wedding and coronation. He visited her in Greece. He arranged for the Israeli's to allow her to be buried on the Mount of Olives as she wished. The Crown is a melodrama not a documentary. That being said : Alix claimed Jesus Christ was her boyfriend.

Why doesn't the Crown write more factual storylines? It pisses me off that they play so fast and loose with the truth. These are living characters in our own lifetimes. You can't just make shit up.

It also pisses me off when they change the costumes with photographed events. That ugly dress they put on Margaret for the LBJ dinner took me out of the scene. The real dress wasn't amazing either but it could have been used.

It's a television drama r563. If you want to know a pure factual history crack open a book.

Everything they do is based on truth, but of course they take liberties like literally every dramatized story based on real events does. Their job is to make a good show.

It's a television drama r563. If you want to know a pure factual history crack open a book.

Everything they do is based on truth, but of course they take liberties like literally every dramatized story based on real events does. Their job is to make a good show.

It's laziness on the part of the writer is what it is. The actual history of these people is quite interesting enough to dramatize without taking wildly incorrect liberties all over the place.

I think they've gone too far with the liberties.

So next season is Josh O'Connor supposed to play a 32 year old Charles for the wedding? It will be interesting to see how they age him.

Age him up? Joshua O'Connor is a 29 year old man. It was this season, especially his first episode were he was playing a 19-20 year old Charles where he was having to try to seem younger than he was.

I should add same for Erin Doherty's Princess Anne, who is in reality a nearly 30 year old woman but was meant to be a highschooler in her first episode.

I agree that it seems silly to be so liberal with fictionalizing things when the original facts are as interesting if not more so. It's quite disappointing to feel like you're being duped so often.

It is marketed as a marquee product, not some Hallmark movie take on it all. So they have a duty of care where quality is concerned.

Sometimes it's painfully obvious that it's fiction, like when the Queen supposedly said to Wilson she couldn't cry and knew something was wrong with her from an early age. The Queen would never have spoken so freely like that to the prime minister.

Well we know Elizabeth and Wilson had a close relationship and were quite fond of each other. But duh, every conversation between the Queen and the Prime Minister is made up. No one knows what they talked about behind closed door.

[quote] like when the Queen supposedly said to Wilson she couldn't cry and knew something was wrong with her from an early age.

And recall she sat on her dead father's bed and wept in Series 1.

The conversation was implausible, stilted and ridiculous, R575, and I believe it's a good example of the show taking liberties that it doesn't earn. We don't see anything prior to that episode to indicate that the Queen would consider Wilson a confidante to that degree, and we know enough about her real life to expect her close friends to be such confidantes, not prime ministers. It, like so many other details, was changed for thin reasons; another example would be the documentary episode, which should have focused on Charles since he was meant to be "introduced" to the public by the documentary, yet he doesn't even appear in the episode at all because they wanted to "save" him for later in the season.

I don't find these choices to be very convincing. I'm not angered by it but I agree with others that it's lazy and unnecessary.

You can disagree all you want but what I said wasn't ridiculous or stupid, and there was no need for you to get immature and whiny.

r577 I was wondering where Charles went during that episode? I had to pull up the real documentary again to confirm that he was actually in it. It will be a struggle for me to get excited for S4 with the way things are going. The last two episodes were a lot stronger, but it doesn't capture the mood of S1 & S2.

[quote]Alix claimed Jesus Christ was her boyfriend.

It wasn't unusual at that time for nuns and other reigious Sisters to be "married" to Christ. It's not as common now, but some orders still follow this belief.

Even nuns weren't exempt from having dick on the side, even in the form of a ghost. Society really thought that women couldn't function without a man.

Yes, the bit about something being "wrong" with her is something Elizabeth might have said to Margaret, but not to anyone else. Having her say that to the Prime Minister was a milestone of absurdity.

[quote]Sometimes it's painfully obvious that it's fiction, like when the Queen supposedly said to Wilson she couldn't cry and knew something was wrong with her from an early age. The Queen would never have spoken so freely like that to the prime minister.

I don't really have a problem with the too-talky scenes with the PM, as they are being used by the show for exposition.

But the Queen would never be that loose-lipped -- or introspective -- in real life.

It seemed very out of character for her to make that knowing admission.

Claire Foy has taped some flashback scenes for Season 4.

I binged it on one go, went to bed at 4 am.

The truth is, it's a bit slow at times, like the first season. I paused episode 1 at least 4 times to get a snack and I only do that when I'm bored but committed to get through a show. It got better as the season progressed, though I fell asleep during the 5th episode about Lord Mountbatten. Admittedly, I can't stand the actor, Charles Dance, sneering his way through every scene and he just gives me the most icky vibes as a person. I'm not even going to rewatch to see what I missed there.

Favorites were Margerotology, Aberfan, and the one about Charles - the actor who portrayed him surprised me in a good way.

I'm not a fan of Colman. I've watched her work since the early days and she's honestly the same in most of her work. I know she's the new favorite (pun intended) now, but while she's good, she's not great. Plus, her "oh my GOSH, I have no idea WHAT I'm doing, really, I'm just gobsmacked that people LIKE me" makes me want to barf, it's so fake. Behind that bumbling, air heady "actress" is a clever, calculating woman and she knows what she's doing...which is fine, but cut out the idiot act; it's not cute, coming from a woman of almost 50?

Honestly, overall, I barely remember much about this season. I just had to binge it because it was there. I'd give it a 6 out of 10.

When they had the Queen say to Wilson " I want you deep inside me Prime Minister." It crossed the line of verisimilitude.

that's "deep inside WE" Fixed it for R585

I believe that line was 'Prime Minister, we wish you in us, quite deeply' and it will win awards.

Yes, far too many liberties! When it showed Lord Mountbatten demonstrating to Charles how to masturbate, it jumped the shark!

"Charles, now that you are a fine young man and well into puberty, I'm going to teach you the British skill of edging. As our men are out to sea for months at a time we pride ourselves on our stamina and keeping the plumbing in tip-top shape."

I wasn't able to watch the entire Aberfan disaster. Maybe I'll finally go back and watch it all the way through, but I'm a sentimental slob, and I already know the story. But the idea that the Queen volunteered that she dabbed a dry eye seems like a really inappropriate thing to write, when contemporary writers all seem to mention how moved she was when she visited. And, since I couldn't make myself watch the whole thing, I have to ask, in my ignorance, did they show when they Queen accepted a posy from a small girl, inscribed, "From the remaining children of Aberfan’."? I will almost certainly force myself to sit my ass down to binge-watch, at some point, but there are times, when I know I have to work the next day, that I don't want to cry.

Don't forget that while Phillip's sisters' shameful Nazi ties are often spoken about, that his mother is officially a "Righteous Among The Nations" for saving Jews form the Holocaust.

Yes, I hated that "I dabbed a dry eye" confession because I know it is bullshit.

She receives the posey and a card, r590

I’m watching DL fave “The Women” and it’s weird to think that Elizabeth was 13 when that movie came out.

r590, you need to actually watch it before you criticize it.

[quote] and the one about Charles

There are actually three about Charles: the investiture episode, the one where he starts dating Camilla (where the Duke of Windsor dies), and the one immediately after when the elder members of the BRF make Camilla and Charles break up.

R596 ALL the ones about Charles, then.

Yes, the best episodes dealt with Charles.

The sefries certasinly needs the freshening up it will get next season with Margaret Thatcher and Diana. Between them, they tear down two of the most basic tenets of the Queen so far--that her counsel of her Prime Minister's matters (Thatcher), and that the royal family must never seem to care (Diana)--and both of them were very successful. It will be very interesting to see how the Queen reacts to them both.

Was Thatcher a bitch to the Queen? One more reason to hate that vicious cunt.