Goodbye, Cursive

Good riddance. The point of cursive was it was faster than using block letters. Speed is no longer an issue since very few people have any occasion to write out lengthy documents.

This makes me very sad. When I was very young, the second job I had was at a "Japanese" restaurant, that employed a lot of women from Eastern Asia. Some of them already had skills writing in traditional cursive, but the Japanese and Korean women really worked hard to learn how to write their signatures in Western cursive, and it was a real mark of pride for so many of them.

I prefer that schools stop teaching cursive writing before they stop teaching geography and history.

For me, learning to write in cursive was a step in maturity. I really looked forward to writing in a "grown-up" style. It was fancy!

It was so mysterious to look at an adult person's handwriting , wondering what was hidden in there. I wanted to know!

My nieces do all their school assignments on computers. While they had some instruction in cursive, they only short lessons here and there

Handwriting is part of what makes a person distinctive. I’d hate to lose that.

Cursive has been replaced by cursing.

Typing is slower, so how do teachers deal with that?

I find it hard to believe that the hardasses teaching at my college would slow down for typers.

No kids know cursive anymore. Students still have to write in longhand for the AP exams so I make them write crap out. I was aghast when I discovered they don't know cursive but now I don't care. It's a bigger problem that they don't know how to read or use computers.

So many teachers ban laptops in college that i think this is a bad idea.

[quote]r9 Students still have to write in longhand for the AP exams so I make them write crap out. I was aghast when I discovered they don't know cursive but now I don't care.

Am I wrong to consider longhand and cursive the same thing?

good. I hate trying to read people's shitty cursive writing. I much prefer the all caps/block that all of the military people use.

So many people don’t even write out their signature any more. They just scribble a sign of some kind.

My hands shake so much I can hardly write any more. It’s embarrassing. Printing is a little easier. Sometimes typing is a challenge too.

Guess nobody takes shorthand anymore.

I think that cursive is implied by longhand, but can be printing if one writes fast enough. Brits call this joined-up writing, while I'm far more familiar with the term script.

We were required to use it for our school work in private school back in the 1960s. I hated it.

R13 - yep, that's my signature nowadays. I'm torn on this - one the one hand, I spent a lot of time in elementary school and used to have beautiful penmanship. That all went to shit once I had to take notes quickly in HS and university.

Now my handwriting is pretty awful - solely because I don't do it often. My hand muscles aren't use to doing it.

Cursive does now seem like a hold-over from pre-typewriter days, almost like a 19th century remnant. Who writes long letters or anything in cursive anymore?

On the other hand, block letters seem so primitive and uneducated. Students should at least learn how to read and identify it - THAT part seems to be thrown away needlessly.

Went to a museum recently that had glass cases displaying letters from famous historical figures. Most of the letters were in cursive. I could read them, it was a wonderful experience for the people there who were able to read them. Meanwhile there were kids there who could not read the letters. Historical documents from this century and several centuries back. This seems awful to me.

If we can teach kids to read and write printing, we can teach them cursive. How hard is it?

[quote] Good riddance. The point of cursive was it was faster than using block letters. Speed is no longer an issue since very few people have any occasion to write out lengthy documents.

So speed isn't an issue in writing notes, grocery lists, cards? In my office we often attach post-its with a few sentences on them to documents. I couldn't imagine having to block print every word so some young worker could read it.

The other thing is, most of the block printing you see is horrible. You get notes from adults that look like they were written by 9 year olds.

[quote] Am I wrong to consider longhand and cursive the same thing?

I think it just means writing things out.

[quote] No kids know cursive anymore

I should have said "no kid knows." OH DEAR.

When I taught college, I banned laptops. I allow them in high school if I can see they are actually taking notes. It's easier to enforce rules in a high school setting.

I took copious notes when I went to college - I don't think I would have been able to take down as much info as I wanted if I couldn't do cursive. But maybe if that's all you do, you get faster at it?

I guess you could record the lectures - listen later and type up your notes, if your professor didn't allow laptops - and what a hassle using one in class anyway - to yourself and others ?? In the classes where they were allowed, I remember people in the back surfing the Internet during class.

Our future.

Will banks and lawyers allow people to use block letters on the "Signature" line? If so, it's another sign of the "Dumbing Down of America"

Now I'll tell you what's hard to read -- Russian cursive writing!

[quote]Guess nobody takes shorthand anymore.

No need --we all use Speedwriting!

It is a marker of economic class, as well. Private schools (by which I mean the U.S. type) would be unlikely to ever eliminate teaching cursive handwriting. I'm surprised that upwardly mobile parents would want their kids segregated into futures where they didn't have this common skill that more priviledged students will.

And No, it isn't that hard to teach or learn. I think we learned it in 3rd grade. You were very strictly graded on it for one year, then the individual's personal style (consistently looped or not, all letters connected or not, some block letters dropped in, specialized capital letters) wasn't encroached on as long as it was legible.

In the subway there were signs for Speedwriting "If u kn rd ths u kn gt a gd jb." I saw an ad where someone added "blo" before jb.

How can we secretly analize other people's handwriting if cursive is eliminated?

So many FBI teams unemployed!

In my day the sine qua non of adulthood was your signature. I remember practicing mine to make it legible yet stylish. Your cursive signature was a real representation of your personality and character. Your unique logo.The signature pad on the electronic credit card screen has made today's signatures a joke. The guy ahead of me in checkout literally put an X as his signature, We've gone back to the days of illiterates making their "mark".

I almost always put an X for my signature when forced to do so on screens. I asked a guy who worked for the credit department at a bank who confirmed that if you're fairly certain you're never going to need to do a refund or an exchange on what you bought, no one will ever know the difference.

Most of the signature screens at checkout are confimed with video above your head. I hate when people take a needless 5-10 seconds to write a John Hancock signature digitally. So pointless and it makes you look stupid.

Kids, teens, whoever, can learn cursive handwriting by watching the instructional video series that PBS stations have run from time-to-time. There are 22 of them. They're still up at the source educational channel that produced them. I think it's one of those things that after one learns the basics, practice makes perfect. Make it fun like an art class, and relate it to calligraphy.

There were certain letters that somehow enraged me, like they were compressing my individuality. The capital d, for some reason. I traced them bitterly over and over, but the next year substituted my own variations.

Others, like the L, were pretty.

More dumbing down.

I learned cursive in elementary school in the 90s and it became my standard way of writing. I can't write fast enough in print and it doesn't look as uniform as my cursive either. By the time I got to high school in the 2000s I was about the only one who wrote in cursive. I've encountered people my age in the workplace who have been astonished that I write in cursive, and even a few who haven't been able to read it. It seems a lot of people haven't learned it already, and very few of those who learned it adopted it.

How do you sign loan documents, driver license, passport, Christmas cards, birthday cards, notes when you have someone on the telephone and you need to write down intructions, etc. Do you print everything? This is ridiculous.

Yes, this is another Dumbing Down of America. What a shame to lose cursive writing. You don't use your computer for everything. Teach cursive writing, goddammit!

This sounds like part of Turnip's plan to make America illiterate again.

I work at an elementary Montessori school where cursive is still taught to differing degrees depending on the teacher. It does dovetail with a lot of Montessori activities meant to develop fine motor skills. Most of the kids love it.

But as the teacher of the kids learning English as a new language, I think their time could be better spent on writing as in composition.

We’ll have apps to read cursive in the future, and it really isn’t that hard to get as a reader as opposed to a writer.

I type much faster than I can write with a pen or pencil, so I think that basic keyboarding might serve kids better, especially kids who need a boost with spellcheck and predictive spelling.

I know a decade ago I would’ve been aghast at dropping cursive, and even now it makes me a little sad, but that’s par for the course with change and seeing a bit of the past disappear.

[quote]r34 By the time I got to high school in the 2000s I was about the only one who wrote in cursive.

How did the others take notes in class, etc? They just printed everything out? Or they brought in laptops? That would be very distracting.

Other than my signature, I print everything; it's not that difficult to take notes!

I think I was taught Modified Cursive when I was in school. But it's still too slow.

But my life has changed now that I have Dictation on my Apple Macintosh.

Kindergarten curriculum used to focus on activities that helped both large and small muscle development. Young children need activities Primary students used to learn manuscript print, by third grade cursive. Handwriting helps develop eye-hand coordination, which is an important developmental skill.

Sorry, somehow a sentence fragment got included in the post above.

IMO this is further evidence of the continued dumbing down of our school children. I was taught cursive in 3rd grade (this was 1961) and I still remember the pride I felt when my teachers complimented me on my penmanship. Back then we were only allowed to use #2 pencils or fountain pens. And to this day I despise a ball point or roller ball pen.

For a long time it was argued that cursive writing was faster than printing, but supposedly it really isn't.

I think it's easier on your hand physically, though, as there isn't so much lifting of the pen from paper. It has a flowing quality that I'd think unlocks and frees the brain more than meticulously shaping each individual letter on it's stand-alone own would. But that would all depend on how you were taught and what you're used to. I can listen better when I'm taking notes in cursive, but someone who's only printed for years would be more comfortable with that method, of course.

Not being able to write legibly in cursive makes me think someone's a dropout (or simply stupid) but it appears I'm old fashioned. Doctors have the worst handwriting of all, which is rather alarming. I wonder if it's mere arrogance, or it's because they had to take notes for so many classes that the handwriting just disintegrated and finally snapped.

It’s Saturday night and this is an active thread. That’s sort of sad.

^^ not all over the world, or even the U.S., bitch!

GO BACK TO YOUR MEAGER, CHICKEN SCRATCH PRINTING METHOD!

It's not even mandatory to teach spelling and grammar in schools anymore! Kids can't even remember to start their sentences with upper case letters!

I took penmanship in Catholic school. We called it "writing in script" instead of "cursive." My neighbor, who went to public school told me they didn't have penmanship classes. I still enjoy writing things by hand. It's sad that penmanship and free-hand drawing have fallen by the wayside. Except in prison.

OMG - I'm suddenly thinking of that horrible cursive-style typing ball/font that used to be used in school newsletters, etc. Usually on pastel paper.

What was that called?? I don't usually use the word "frau," but that type was the frau-iest thing ever [bold]: (

Looking up "cursive type," I notice Mother Teresa had rather conflicting statements - -

As a kid that was in elementary school right around the time they stopped teaching it, I wish they had taught it to us. I feel embarrassed when I have to sign documents and my signature isn’t in cursive. It makes me feel like a child.

We learned the Palmer Method of penmanship in the 1960s.

Proponents of the Palmer Method emphasized its plainness and speed, that it was much faster than the laborious Spencerian Method, and that it allowed the writer to effectively compete with the typewriter. To educators, the method's advocates emphasized regimentation, and that the method would thus be useful in schools to increase discipline and character, and could even reform delinquents.

The Palmer Method began to fall out of popularity in the 1950s and was eventually supplanted by the Zaner-Bloser method, which sought to teach children manuscript before teaching them cursive, in order to provide them with a means of written expression as soon as possible, and thus develop writing skills. The D'Nealian method, introduced in 1978, sought to address problems raised by the Zaner-Bloser method, returning to a more cursive style. The Palmer company stopped publishing in the 1980s.

If I wasn't retired and was still a hiring manager and someone came in for an interview who couldn't write cursive there is no way he or she would even be considered for a position.

OMG - this is the vintage "frau" script I mentioned you could use on typewriters!

Shudder...

Hisss!!!!!!

We didn't approve when they moved from writing tablets and quill pens

Hissssss!!!

Hisssss!!

[quote]r52 I wish they had taught it to us. I feel embarrassed when I have to sign documents and my signature isn’t in cursive. It makes me feel like a child.

Don't worry! R31 says you can learn by watching and practicing alongside a mere 22 videos!

the haven't been teaching cursive in a lot of places for almost 25 years

I only read about it in the NY Times about a year and a half ago [bold] : (

R54 would also test the applicant's skills with an abacus and adding machine and make sure they knew how to use a mimeograph and a pneumatic tube!!!

Huzzah!!!

[quote]r54 If I wasn't retired and was still a hiring manager and someone came in for an interview who couldn't write cursive there is no way he or she would even be considered for a position.

I wonder how it would even come up, though. You'd look at forms they filled out?

It can't be a standard interview question, can it? Though I've heard some employers will have candidates' handwriting analyzed...

The idea that cursive in anyway is instrumental in a child's intellectual development has been completely debunked for quite some time.

But yes, by all means we should waste time teaching this in our classrooms because all schoolchildren have no need to learn math, science or critical thinking. It's a beautiful world we live in because of cursive.

Yes - because according to R62, cursive is taking time away from advanced calculus, chemistry and physics instructions for 8 year olds.

It's really all or nothing - teach cursive or math, science or critical thinking. Damn you cursive for being so labor intensive!!!

R30 Apologies for taking 5 to 10 precious seconds out of your pointless life.

When I was working we required management level candidates to take an aptitude test & complete a personality profile questionnaire, which included questions that needed to be answered at length by hand.

I don't even want to think about what it will be like trying to hire people who can even carry on a conversation during an interview 20 years from now. We've already produced a generation of social retards who find it almost impossible to pull their heads out of their mobile phones or laptops to actually speak to others like normal human beings.

[quote]r62 The idea that cursive in anyway is instrumental in a child's intellectual development has been completely debunked for quite some time.

It isn't just about the penmanship, it's about studying a simple skill that requires attention, dedication, and practice. It is also achievable for all of them. And it's diplomatic - not all students have computer access, or even access to wifi. But they do have paper and pencil.

I occasionally see job ads which require the applicants to write it by hand.

I wish doctors learnt to write legibly whenever I see their illegible prescriptions.

You’re in luck, R3. It’s all THREE!

It apparently has not occurred to the naysayers here that zombie or Martian invasion could easily freeze the power grid.

Where will they be when their lives depend on reading or writing a secret note? Dead, that's where.

Even though I use the computers extensively, and I prefer typing than hand writing in general, I am glad to have had the chance to learn how to write with my own hand. There is so much çharacter in hand writing. Even monkeys can press the keys of keyboard and that's what we are becoming by loosing skills that differentiate us from other primates.

"Sentiments of importance should always be written in longhand."

Sending flowers to your lover. Do you expect the florist to pen the enclosed card?

^^^ you still don't get it .... just hopelesss!

Comic Sans for everybody it is then!

r43=Rhoda Penmark

In 7th grade, my notes from the opening day of science class were put on an overhead projector to show everyone the best example.

I don't get nearly enough opportunities to share this.

Where handwriting isn't taught, does that mean kids are given typing classes in third grade?

How does that work?

[Quote] Even monkeys can press the keys of keyboard and that's what we are becoming by loosing skills that differentiate us from other primates.

I think they should teach the kids how to write those fat bubble letters from the ‘60s and ‘70s.

DLEGs know what I am referring to.

What's a DLEG?

Maybe it’s like a gulag?

Older (now closed) thread on cursive writing, circa 2010:

[quote]I went to an Episcopal school ... The nuns would literally walk around while we were writing and smack our little hands if we weren't forming the letters correctly. Due to that I have exquisite handwriting to this day, 5 decades later

In the past year, I've started writing checks (only an occasional one to my partner) in block letters, because the retarded teller at the credit union could not read cursive, and made an error in the amount! I've completely given up on any literate future; we're officially living in Idiocracy! And this is in Santa Clarita, for fucks sakes!

The biggest concern to me is what R18 talks about: There is a huge body of material in the form of handwritten letters and cards, many of them quite recent. Some are from prominent people, as R18 mentions, but some are family mementos. It is bizarre to think that a child born in 2005 can’t read a letter his grandmother wrote in 1980. We can still clearly read Roman inscriptions, but we’re raising a generation of kids who can’t read ordinary English writing from a few decades ago.

Maybe cursive won’t disappear. Maybe it will take the girdle route. That is, change its name to something that sounds less old-fashioned (as girdle became body shaper, shapewear or Spanx) but that does exactly the same thing. What cool, 21st-century, updated name could cursive take that would increase its appeal to moderns?

The dumbing down of the US is happening. Do they no longer teach latIn?

"Yes - because according to R62 , cursive is taking time away from advanced calculus, chemistry and physics instructions for 8 year olds."

Because according to you, the only science and math that can be taught is advanced calculus, chemistry and physics.

I guess learning cursive really taught you a thing or two about the real world, r63.

my grandsons were not taught cursive and they are in their 20's. My oldest was taught by his mother because she knew he would at least need to know so he could sign his name. The real damage showed when I handed my youngest grandson a letter to read when he was 12 and he handed it to his mother and said, "I can't read this, I don't know what those letters are". It doesn't occur to us that script letters and printed letters are completely different characters.

I'm 70 and still use script so how are all these people going to be able to read anything in script such as important/unimportant documents especially since script is still used today. My youngest grandson can sign his name but not sure if he can read script.

[quote]What's a DLEG?

DataLounge Eldergay.

And I am one of those, and I don't know what the "bubble letters" r80 mentioned are.

Here:

One's signature can evoke glamour at a glance.

I've always loved Gertie's.

Her signature is wearing a hat

Or this, r90 r91

I think it’s a mistake, and can vouch for my daughter’s disappointment the year she got to the grade she was to begin and it was yanked from local curriculum. The teachers felt the same and supplied guides and websites for parents to use to teach at home....they just couldn’t do teach it in class.

I’m pleased that two years later she is perfecting her cursive, and has recently taken up calligraphy!

Gertie was no stranger to hats, r94.

Goodbye, cursive -- hello, idiocy. Read the linked article.

And it's not just cursive that's being ignored in today's schools -- any kind of writing by hand is considered completely irrelevant. No teacher will even bother showing a kid how to hold a pencil correctly.

I have kids, and I begged every teacher from kindergarten through fourth grade to show them and remind them as needed how a pen or pencil should be held to avoid writer's cramp and produce legible writing. Ha! Apparently that's not part of a teacher's job any more, and I've seen some of my kids' classmates clutch their pens like they're joysticks.

In a couple decades I’ll be able write in cursive and the youngs will think it’s hieroglyphics. I can communicate in code with my fellow elders.

I know how to write in cursive, but I've always preferred printing. I only write by hand now when I make a shopping list or take notes in meetings. Everything else if done on my phone or keyboard.

I sent a properly addressed letter this year that was delayed by a month in the mail. I now wonder if it's because a mail carrier couldn't read cursive.

I absolutely hate the fact that people don't write in cursive. I think that it shows how much of a child you are by not writing in cursive. When I learned cursive, I was so glad (after initially being frustrated at first) after learning it because it made me feel like I graduated from being an elementary kid to a progressive adult. I still right today get complements on my penmanship in cursive - people think it's so pretty and always say, "I wish I could write in cursive like you!" You can write like me...if you practice it enough and put some effort into it.

This is not a dumbing down, more a progression.

Technology has moved us beyond cursive. Crying about isn’t going to change the fact that it’s generally unnecessary now

Seems like a lot of old DLers complaining because what they learned 50 years ago still isn’t current

With less emphasis put on handwriting, I really feel bad for teachers who have to correct schoolwork. They do all that on their own time, and if it gets harder and harder to make out the writing, it will take twice as long.

I'm not sure that cursive is easier to read, R105. I think regular print is easier. Either one can be illegible if the writer sucks at it, of course.

Cursive is easier to write, or at least faster, because you don't have to pick up your pen so often.

After retiring, I worked as a math coach in urban schools. Sometimes I worked with students who were struggling. Some had been retained twice. Of course, they didn't want to review their misunderstandings or errors. So I made a deal, they would make their best effort with me, and in return I would teach them whatever they liked. Surprisingly, they wanted to learn how to sign their names in cursive. I bought them practice books and we would work in them once math was finished. They were diligent, and very proud of their writing.

100 years from now, they won't even teach words. It'll all be emoji pictograms, because half of the population will be inbred, mentally off and autistic worker drones.

I retired from teaching high school English right about at this transition. Those students who printed on tests invariably complained about not having enough time. (Exams are not done on computers, or at least, weren't. And I doubt the SATs will be.)

Sometimes I wonder if all this reliance on technology for student knowledge and skills is strictly to dumb down the public school demographic. Somehow I think that the private education track to the Ivy League and then exorbitant salaries on Wall Street still teaches, amongst a Classical education, cursive.

r108 "Idiocracy" - it's a documentary!