Rest in peace Kevin Killian.

Oh Jesus Christ Dodie is tiresome.

LOL at the bit about him being a fan of "Santa Barbara" and writing to various cast members.

I do remember Kevin. We were both starting writing careers in SF in the mid-80s. I didn't really know him that well. I worked a day job with his sister. He was kind enough to set up a cocktail party to introduce me to other writers in SF. I'm sorry to say I chickened out and didn't go. But although I didn't know him, I liked him. Sorry to hear about his death.

R2, yes like his mom Kevin loved soap operas. I wonder if he posted here on DL?

R1, if you taught literary theory and writing classes at art schools, and were trying to market your classes and unpopular books to potential students/readers, and given a reading audience in the village voice with an article you would be too.

Yes how very "queer" - being in a heterosexual marriage. Was he one of those I fuck men but save my true love for women types? That about sums up "queer"

How did he die? Suicide?

r1 Why was he so unlike his literary output?

R6, In his writing-both fiction and memoir/autobiography, Kevin and his characters were very narcissistic, impressed by wealth or the American or European new money upper class, motivated by and always chasing fame/celebrity- or chasing celebrities even if it was just to be near them or have them acknowledge him, ask them for autographs even if they did not want to do this, or he would try to pick them up as he did with Allen Ginsberg who ignored him and introduced him to musician Arthur Russell instead. In his fiction and memoir Kevin could be cruel or emotionally abusive, and even in his memoirs he admits he was extremely manipulative in the 1970s as a young man. In reality he was more kind, sincere, romantic/loving-I never pursed anything sexual or romantic with him as he was married, and he and his wife had a marriage that was sometimes open, as he and his wife are not my type at all and one or more people in love triangles or the lover on the side wind up getting hurt emotionally or completely cut off and cast aside very fast-and Kevin Killian as a person did not take himself so seriously and had a wicked sense of humor and loved to make people laugh both in person and in his writing. In his memoir bedrooms have windows there's a part where he is at a conference for the MLA in NYC during the late 1970s and sees Anthony Perkins who also is attending the conference, and in memoir/writing jokes about the Modern Language Association conference being akin to the mineshaft sex club, and they cruise each other and wind up having sex. Now did this really happen? Was it really Anthony Perkins? Or just some academic who looked like him? I am not sure; but it certainly made me laugh a lot. Kevin also loved to collect autographs of celebrities, and loved Kylie Minogue's music, so I guess in some ways he did not stop looking for fame, recognition, etc.

I also remember one short autobiographical dramatic piece where Kevin Killian in his early 20s compares himself to Kevin Killian in later life in his 60s, and the older version of himself is completely honest to the younger version, that his books and poems were not popular-in his own words "they are duds", that he is not famous, not living with Christopher Isherwood or did not take the place of Isherwood's partner Don Bachardy, and that it was extremely difficult to get them published or keep them in print. If Kevin Killian was a narcissist, he never turned on me and I never heard him attack other people, put down their work, or sabotage their work, practice plagiarism of someone else's poetry/fiction/non-fiction and claim it as his own, etc. the way narcissists do. I did not worship everything he wrote and even with his memoirs, essays, and short stories I felt that he should have explained people/characters, or events more or in greater detail. Kevin was also honest about how he had been sexually abused by the friars and priests at his Roman Catholic private school in the 1960s, how he was picked up by a predatory married chickenhawk/pedo while hitchiking as a teen, and how he was once a male prostitute for several weeks when he was desperate for cash and figured it would be easy money.

(continued in next reply)

R6 Also, if you wrote to Kevin Killian, he would critique any sort of writing you would send him, if you wanted him to do this. I never did this, or asked him to do this. I grew up with relatives who are writers/academics and I heard enough about post-modern literary theory growing up. I had also already studied with a writer who is actually successful and frequently published. It is also incredibly time consuming for the person doing the critiquing to take time to read and critique someone else's writing. Kevin had lots of people who would contact him on facebook or on his website, and ask him to read their essays, poetry, plays, short stories, or novels or they would want him to get them published or in contact with a publisher, etc. Kevin once told me that he valued our friendship because he could be himself, and that I was not asking him to read any of my writing, critique it, etc. or have him introduce me to people in publishing, published and more successful writers, etc.

I do not like the term queer either and hate it, since as a teen some older married closeted guy who I grew up next door to called me that name and the f-word and beat me up. Now he is divorced and still a total mess with alcohol and drugs. I also have met and worked for academics who are completely heterosexual and they use the term to describe themselves because of what they teach in classes or write about, when they do not teach anything at all about people who are not heterosexual and are not like us non-heterosexual people at all. I am not impressed by fame, status, or wealth. I had much older relatives and in-laws married to close relatives, who, were when they were alive, part of the American or European upper class, or semi-famous. I do not mean that they were in the top 1% or that they were A/B/C list celebrities, etc. I also do not understand or like how so many people-even more so with the advent of social media, instagram, youtube, etc. chase fame or celebrity. An old former friend of mine from highschool who was convinced he would become the next great American film maker is a narcisscist who discovered that the film world is based not on originality or talent but who you know, and money, got out of film and still chases "fame" on youtube and instagram.

Kevin loved men as well, but one of them died from HIV/AIDS, and the others I did not ask about; but I know that many of them tended to also be addicts, narcissistic or fame chasers, or very self destructive people like he was in his youth. As a bisexual man I have friends who are gay men and women but they have never had any sexual attraction at all to the opposite sex obviously, and even the ones who when they were younger as teens or young adults and did not know how to meet other gay people-this was in the mid-late 1970s or early 1980s- who had slept with the opposite sex said how their sexual experiences with the opposite sex just showed them how they are gay men or women, and that they are not sexually attracted to the opposite sex at all and would never marry, or partner with a person of the opposite sex.

Kevin and his wife Dodie are obviously bisexual as they are sexually and romantically attracted to both sexes; but as they are/were academics, and now that everyone who is bisexual, gay/lesbian, or trans is now "queer", as well as difficulty being published or keeping writings in print there's also some marketing going on. I mean, just look at how Huffington Post used to have separate articles/opinions for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and trans opinions/articles as we are all different and have different issues, and how now it is all "queer".

No he died from cancer. Thankfully he did not suffer long after being diagnosed and getting treatment, as he was in a lot of pain.

I know I am going on and on, in great detail, probably perhaps too much; but you did ask, and I answered your questions.

R3 Kevin loved to do this. He loved to go to readings, events, etc. and try to bring together local writers, poets, and amateur actors in SF together.

I almost forgot about that ridiculous Voice article which, if I remember correctly, was part of their "pride" issue that year. A bisexual man claiming to be "gay", and his snowflake wife viciously defending that fiction.

R10, I do not really understand it either?

I never asked Kevin why he would sometimes identify as gay or why his wife would, at times identify as gay/lesbian when they are actually bisexual.

I know that SJWs, queer theory/gender studies academics, or people who identify as queer would tell me that as a bisexual man I should be completely outraged at how KK and his wife did this but I am just more puzzled as to why? As I wrote earlier I am not sure if this has to do with marketing, or how now how everyone who is LGBT is now "queer"?

I also never asked him why he and his wife did not have, or had not completed PhD. programs despite having Masters/MFAs.

I know gay men who actually were in marriages of convenience, and they did not have regular sex with their wives, do not have sexual attraction to their wife or any woman, and the marriage was not good, and that the only love they had with their spouses was that of friendship, or akin to loving a sibling or close relative and it does not match or equal the love they have for a same sex partner/spouse at all. These men are not bisexual, they are actually gay.

I did find it funny how Dodie compared herself to Vita-Sackville-West, in the article.

I did show the article to a gay friend of mine who once lived in Berkeley and lectured there, and he said how people from SF can sometimes want to project that they are unique or super special as you wrote. I have also met academics who do the same thing, or who think they are basically akin to celebrities.

So what happened when you did not attend the cocktail event R3?

Kevin loved spanking but this is not any sort of secret.

Article by lonely Christopher who is a mess with lots of problems.

Nobody is perfect but Christopher sends up major red flags to avoid, and Kevin and Dodie are bisexual.

Has anyone else here read KK's memoirs or poetry?

who is "lonely christopher"? Dale Peck's endorsement is reason alone to ignore it but can someone give the readers digest version for us rubes? Is this another one of these weird performance art scams like JT Leroy?

R16 this is "lonely' Christopher. Read his biography. I am honestly not sure who would even publish his writing? Kevin Killian did die, but I'm not convinced that LC should have been the one to write about him.

The biography on his webpage is hilariously over-ernest:

" I worked on the sales floor of Barnes and Noble's flagship store at Union Square. During a winter vacation to Paris I broke up with my boyfriend after a bitter argument on Christmas Day in Père Lachaise cemetery and then couldn't get a flight back to the US for a month. When I finally returned home, my electricity was cut off and I ended up abandoning my apartment and becoming homeless for half a year. During this time I wrote a poetry collection titled In a January Would. I started working as a counselor at an agency for LGBT youth. I was invited to spend the night inside MoMA PS1 with a group of artists who filmed a pornographic fantasia, including a scene of me jacking off in a shower, which was then exhibited to museum guests the following day. Someone I met during this project swept me off to Fire Island afterward." AND then

" My work with queer youth developed into a position as a full time case manager at a Harlem drop-in center for homeless LGBTQIAGNC populations. I discovered a special interest in HIV/AIDS services and activism. Through this work I developed a personal praxis committed to sex positivity, social justice, and anti-racism. I created the curriculum for an undergraduate level media studies group called “Somebody Blew Up America: investigating the poetics of dissent,” which I facilitated with my clients for thirteen sessions. "

He apparently pissed off the online fanfic fraus at one point:

"My first novel, THERE, was released to zero critical attention and a minor controversy among the fanfiction community who resented an interview I gave for Lit Hub that mistakenly implied the genre was not "academic." I quit drinking and smoking cigarettes then started therapy and psychiatric medication, which helped stabilize my mental health. "

At least he is upfront about his psychiatric issues but centering ones life and career on being the next literary enfant terrible by embracing the nihilism of post-structuralism and queer theory doesn't augur well for his future mental health.

PS - I didn't realize authors had patreon pages but why the hell not? Although one begins to wonder who would pay this guy $500 or $1000 a month unless there was whoring involved...

R18 I have no idea who would hire lonely Christopher to teach a class on literature, politics, or work with homeless at risk youth? It would not surprise me if lonely Christopher is a hustler as he called them clients, and I too wonder who would give him money?

The same goes for that racist crackhead Bruce Benderson, who was once a hustler but now spends any money he has on hookers.

This is Lonely Christopher's partner. It has become a fad now for NYC artists and poets to stop using queer, he or she, and use 'they' as these women or men believe that this somehow helps gender neutral confused people.

r19 Benderson is the worst - he was one of those assholes who hated gay marriage because for him being gay was fucking street hustlers kind of like Bruce Le Bruce or Dennis Cooper - wannabee Gore Vidals...

A friend of mine (a former writing professor) went to high school with both Benderson and Camille Paglia in Syracuse. can you imagine what the hell that must have been? At least Bruce Benderson wrote the occasional amusing story.

r22 Ah that explains alot - they are both professional provocateurs but you are right, at least Benderson doesn't pretend to be some contrarian public intellectual. Paglia is just a fame whore and I doubt she believes half the shit she says but she knows how to market herself. She was one of the OG media trolls from the early 90s and still pops up every few years to say something obnoxious...

R21 yeah I did not like that about Benderson either. I am not married to anyone; but I am all for gay/same sex marriage and people who are bisexual, and gay, or who have same sex partners should be allowed to marry people of the same sex/gender. I read in one interview that Benderson ran away as a teen and became a male hooker so that would explain a lot.

R22 what did your friend say about Paglia and Benderson?

R21 it's interesting how Lonely Christopher seems to worship Dennis Cooper. I have read three of Dennis Cooper's novels, and his poetry, and it is not that good. I also read Kathy Acker's novels, poetry, and essays and found them to be boring.

Samuel Chip Delaney is a paedo and used to sexually abuse homeless men in NYC. He is living proof that queer studies and queer theory are a total joke.

I never got the Delaney appeal either - especially when critics try to spin his sleeping with thousands of anonymous men as some bold political act of cross-racial/class solidarity! They were one time tricks who were most likely conservative married closet cases who would never acknowledge him in public much less forge some enduring social bond. He was/is married to a woman for most of his life (and still is as far as I know but unlike Killian, I don't think he was sexually active with women including his wife) and that always raises red flags for me. Many gay men were married but they divorced and moved on.

Also, attempts to recast anonymous gay sex as some avant garde political or artistic enterprise always struck me as silly but entire fields of literary studies and sociology are built upon that premise so what do I know...

Didn't Dennis Cooper lose like several years worth of writing because he didn't back up his hard drive? I think he eventually got his blog restored but only because of the internet archive...Not very smart....

R28 yes that did happen. I believe it was restored but I do not read his blog regularly.

R27 Weren't most men Samuel Chip Delaney slept with homeless and they hadn't bathed in weeks? I remember reading that in an interview and a book he wrote about Times Square/NYC before gentrification mentioned this as well.

I find it interesting and yet not surprising that Kevin Killian, Dodie, Bruce Benderson, and Dennis Cooper all believed the JT Leroy or Laura Albert hoax.

From Wonder Woman #203 (1972) by Samuel R. Delaney.

Diana: "In most cases, I don't even like women."

R31 I never read the wonder woman comics I would sometimes watch the TV show like if it was on and my parents or other family members were not watching TV and I happened to catch it on one of the few channels we had, but never became obsessed with wonder woman the way a lot of Gen X and baby boomer LGBT people seem to be.

I've met him a couple of time, and several of my friends were close to him. He was a good person.

Thanks R33 yes KK was very kind.

R32, GAY MEN were the "obsessed" fans of the Wonder Woman TV show.

You're not gay at all so you wouldn't get it.

It's a GAY thing.

LMAO R35, tell that to my friend who is a bisexual transwoman who loves Wonder Woman so much she has a wonder woman tattoo.

R36 Bisexual transwoman = self-hating gay man

That's rather simplistic R37, and I do not judge her, especially since I knew her before she ever transitioned which only happened in her 30s after lots of therapy even before she transitioned she was bisexual. Anyway, you don't have to be a gay man to understand how wonder woman was pure campy fun.

R33 care to write about you or your friends' friendships with Kevin Killian?

He was very nice.

Kevin Killian loved spanking and paddling!

Cafe Flore San Francisco, mind you. Hardly Café de Flore, Paris. Sheesh!

R42 that was part of Kevin's charm he loved to exaggerate/romanticize places.

Happy birthday Kevin.

Part 2 of an article on KK. Contains plot spoilers for novels.

Part 3 of Kevin Killian article.

rest in peace.

Delaney is readable but barely so. Cooper is unreadable. Most of the cultural theorists teaching in universities and colleges have produced jargonistic dullards.

Did you ever read anything by KK or Kevin Killian R48? I did not like Delany, and Dennis Cooper while being a nice guy and very open to questions on his blog and from the public, I do not like all of the twinks, rape, scat, torture/murder/snuff stuff in his fiction and short stories. Kathy Acker was different but after blood and guts in high school her novels followed the same format and I did not like how she was into plagiarism.

Part 4

I am not sure why Lonely Christopher calls or identifies Kevin Killian as being gay? Kevin Killian or KK was bisexual, as he was sexually attracted to women, married a woman Dodie who he loved and was sexually attracted to, and it was not a marriage of convenience at all.

R10 and it still goes on, read the Lonely Christopher essays. There's nothing wrong with a man or woman being bisexual but LC should have just said how Kevin is bisexual as his wife is. No this is not to say that most people are bisexual, or that people cannot be straight/hetero, or gay/homosexual; but Kevin and Dodie certainly are not gay/lesbian.

r50 That was the party line and how could anyone ever forget that strange article the wife wrote to absolve him of the taint of homosexuality - he wasn't no homo because their sex life was so penis in vagina yada yada. His claim to notoriety was based on his sexual exploits with men so naturally people are going to be skeptical when you insist otherwise. "Queer" was an attempt to paper over this internal contradiction in academia but it only succeeded in making the subject matter more obscure and useless. I am immediately suspicious of any man invests so much effort is distancing himself from being known as gay - it just reeks of internalized homophobia. And the academic attempt to give that respectable cover is what "queer" comes down to...

I can't believe it has been a year already.

R52 a lot of times bisexual men and women will first come out as gay/lesbian and then realize how they are bisexual. The village voice article was a bit odd though as instead of saying how she and her husband are bisexual DB goes on about how she has a 'lesbian past' and how 'Kevin is gay' when they are both bisexual. If you have read Kevin's memoirs/autobiography Bedrooms have windows, or fascination it details his bisexuality and he basically says how he is bisexual and so was his first actual boyfriend who is 'George Grey' in the memoirs. I have no idea if he really had sex with 1,000 sex partners before HIV/AIDS who he met in bars, saunas/bath houses, on the street, etc. but given the times and the sexual revolution it would have been extremely easy to do. A gay friend of mine who is around KK's age had sex with anywhere from 500-1,000 men but he did most of this during the 1970s before HIV/AIDS was known about and would meet men at adult bookstores, 'tearooms' or public sex places like a university men's room or a men's locker room, in bars/discos, in public, and in the baths/saunas he went to a few times. My friend told me how he was not considered super promiscuous as he did not always hook up with men when he went out the way lots of bisexual and gay men did, and that he would mainly do oral sex with random strangers at glory holes or the tea-rooms, and did anal sex with friends/lovers who he saw more often or who he knew well. He was not infected with HIV/AIDS and has no idea how this did not happen as a lot of his friends and men he knew died from it. He started using condoms in the early 1980s when it was being written about as a 'cancer' in newspapers for gay men.

I know Kevin Killian had sex with at least 200 men and women when he was in college/graduate school as he kept a list and would write down each sex partner he had, and he found it decades later. I feel bad for Kevin as he was sexually abused by a predatory chickenhawk who he met while trying to travel to NYC as a teenager, and the priests and friars at his Roman Catholic school. Hypersexuality is apparently something that happens to people who were sexually abused or introduced to sex by paedos. Kevin was a very wonderful guy but I wish his wife would have written more about how he did research about the gay poet Jack Spicer, wrote a biography on Spicer, and found poems by Spicer that were not published before. I know they had an open marriage but Kevin was discreet and did not bring boyfriends or male lovers around his wife as he did that before a few times and she became very jealous and angry...yet it was perfectly fine for her to have affairs where she slept with other men. But I have heard this can be common in open marriages?

And people complain about lesbian drama.

R54, the drama between bisexuals such as Kevin Killian and Dodie Bellamy is nothing compared to Lesbian drama. A lot of lesbians do beat up their lesbian or bisexual girlfriends/wives, or become very posessive and jealous accusing the other woman of cheating on them with other women or men when they are the ones cheating with other lesbian women-usually it's the wife of another married lesbian couple that both partners know.