What The Hell Was New Wave Music?

New Wave TURNED into pop music. Just like Disco TURNED into pop music and then was replaced by New Wave.

M's "Pop Music" was New Wave when it was released. By the time it hit the top of the charts, I was pop music.

New Wave - was a new wave of pop sound. Syth heavy, floaty sound and lyrics - experimentation with sounds. Thompson Twins were a perfect example of it.

What R1 said. It started out as a fringe thing and became the mainstream. Not the first or last time such a thing has occurred.

Pop music with synthesizers and somewhat fey, feminized vocals.

If you ask 500 people who lived through that era you will get 500 different opinions. New wave is whatever you think it is. If you didn't live through that era, shut the fuck up.

Flock of Seagulls

That's just Mtv synth pop music. Real New Wave was already an old thing in the 80's when Mtv got on the air. Stuff like Devo, B52s, early The Cars, early Blondie, The Knack, maybe Cheap Trick, Talking Heads...there are also bands that overlap with post-punk, like Gang of Four, Pere Ubu, Television, The Wire etc. I guess those band were a bit more "serious" and not poppy and quirky enough, so they were considered post-punk

I was always under the impression New Wave was originally when 70s bands took 50s songs and song structures and reimagined them, like Blondie did originally. Think "In the Flesh" and "Denis".

An example of New Wave that survives to this day: Blue Monday by New Order, released in 1983.

It is the theme for the latest Wonder Woman film to be released next month.

The stuff that was not disco, classic/hard rock, metal, country, R&B, gospel, or hard-core punk--from the mid 70s to the late 80s.

It was glorious.

The Go-Gos were staunchly Punk when they started out, but evolved into Pop. Wouldn’t call then New Wave at all.

R11 This is just pop, mainstream synth pop. If that's new wave then so were Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, Modern Talking or any other mainstream top of the pops music from the 80s. It was poppier take on punk rock

New Wave was just another gimmick to sell the pop music of that era. A lot of great pop and rock music came out of the New Wave era.

Unfortunately, some excellent and diverse rock bands got grouped into that category of music, such as The Pretenders, The Police, The Specials, Elvis Costello & The Attractions, Squeeze and so many others.

What's the difference between new wave and punk?

To be New Wave it always seemed like you needed a gimmick, gender switch: Culture Club, Eurythmics, big suits: Talking Heads, that era’s Bowie, flower pot hats: Devo, swoopy hair: Flock of Seagulls, Howard Jones all that weird stuff Gary Neumann had going on. I’m not saying everyone had one, it just makes it easier to identify when they do.

New Wave was more pop, mainstream, happy...punk was more aggressive, loud, anti-mainstream

Think of The B-52s.

Their first two albums were New Wave. What came after was pop.

Nah.... "New Wave" was reference to the original british invasion of the 60s (Beetles, and more).

This was a NEW Wave of British pop music in the US. Sometimes called the "Second Invasion".

True "New Wave" are all the British bands, like Duran Duran.

Then, not long thereafter, US Bands started duplicating the style... synth-heavy, fashion-oriented pop-music.

I'm all about 80s New wave. So much great music. (Thankfully with time, most of the 'crap' has sunk beneath the waves of history, so only the best remains... and there's so much good stuff)

R19 What bullishit Duran Duran were a pure pop band. Nothing punk or edgy or different about them. And how did US Bands started duplicating the style of British ones when Devo, Blondie, Talking Heads existed since the early 70s, way before Duran Duran or any of that mtv synth pop crap

Music of a particular era does exist before a label is applied to it.

Agree with r20 re Duran Duran. Not New Wave.

Early Split Enz were perhaps New Wave. It's the quirkiness that sets it apart from the rest of the early 80s pop.

[quote]Early Split Enz were perhaps New Wave. It's the quirkiness that sets it apart from the rest of the early 80s pop.

Early Split Enz, Flying Lizards, early Talking Heads, Lene Lovich, and especially Suburban Lawns.

Jittery, detached, danceable.

R20, New wave isn't "punk" you dumbass.

Human League, Duran Duran, Yaz/Yazoo, New Order.... NEW WAVE.

Not fucking PUNK, you moron. TOTALLY DIFFERENT GENRES.

Punk rock was initially also called new wave music, dumbass. Human League, Duran Duran are a shitty radio pop music, they have nothing to do with real new wave bands like Pere Ubu or b52s

Post-punk, non-corporate pop and rock music, e.g., the Talking Heads

Nick Lowe, Elvis Costello, Modern English, Psychedelic Furs, Echo and the Bunnymen, Simple Minds.

I fucking LOVE synth pop!

Something that tried but that would NEVER last, babe!

Punk was raw and aggressive, borne out of the dissaffected working class youths who picked up a guitar, learned a few chord progressions, and wailed about the ills of the world and how they wanted to destroy it.

New Wave was when the richer kids in art and music schools heard punk music, liked it and incorporated the punk rock sensibilities with their art aesthetics and musical training.

A New Wave band with staying power since the 80s, Depeche Mode

In London, there was a brief period post-Punk called [bold]The New Romantics[/bold] centered in a club called The Blitz.

It's chief component was dressing up to outrageous levels, sound-tracked by the style orientated synth driven pop music that was dominant at the time.

[quote]In London, there was a brief period post-Punk called The New Romantics centered in a club called The Blitz.

Asked about the New Romantic trend of dressing like pirates, Fran Lebowitz said, "When I see them I long for a gangplank."

I realise this is totally coming from a position of 'nostalgia for a time I wasn't even alive for' but there is something amazing about that brief period from, say 1978-1982 in music. Of course, now we're looking back, all the good stuff rises to the top too. But it's probably my favourite period of music.

I would extend it to 1986, personally... and I did live through it.

I agree on the side of those proclaiming that Duran Duran was NOT New Wave, but pure pop.

A few thoughts: By the end of the 1970s, rock was all about long songs, guitar solos, "cock rock," and a lot of remnants of the hippie aesthetic (think Stevie Nicks twirling around in scarves). New Wave dismantled all that.

- Most of the songs were short. Like 2:30, in and out. Chorus, chorus, bridge, chorus, out. And no fadeouts. The music just stopped.

- The beats were primitive and simple, rather than focused on technique. Bands like Rush focused on technique. New Wave stripped it down to basic guitar, drums, vocals. And you didn't have to be good at it.

- Lyrics became less focused on sex or mysticism and were either ironic, opaque, or dumb-surreal: "I'm a janitor/Oh, my genitals" was typical. There was nothing to analyze.

- The pre-British Invasion '60s became cool again. Think of the girl-group sounds on Blondie's first album, the beehives on the B-52s, everyone wearing Chuck Taylor high-top sneakers.

- Because of the ironic, detached beats, the natural way to dance was the Pogo, just jumping up and down by yourself. Before that it was the more fluid "hippie" dances of Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac fans.

It was a fun time. You could go to a thrift store and pay $1 for a skinny-lapel jacket and 25 cents for a skinny tie, pair it with a T-shirt and jeans and you were done. Then go to the club, pay $3 and catch several bands (because the songs were short, there were more bands on the lineup).

The Cars. Thread closed.

Any British band that made use of video was potentially New Wave - and then each helped form little sub-groups of bitchy purists.

But Flashdance gave us the standard New Wave vibe and remember: you have to be a fucking welder, stripper, AND ballerina with awesome hair and even then we’ll condemn you to a movie with Sting.

Flashdance was not the New Wave soundtrack, that would be Valley Girl!

One key thing about New Wave was it was gay, very gay!

More marketing than anything. Yes I think it's just pop more than anything. Coming after classic rock, disco and punk it is probably pop that has elements from them.

I may have to watch Valley Girl this weekend! Here is an brief explanation of new wave v synth pop. It doesn’t matter to me, I loved all iterations between 1978-1986.

Yes, Human League was considred the very definition of New Wave at the time.

But then so was Culture Club. They came out of nowhere like something from Mars.

New vawe was type of rock'n'roll music. Culture Club were a pop band

Talk Talk - one of the best examples of New Wave era in my opinion. They have half a dozen good songs but the band broke up after only a 4 albums. It's what would be playing at cool sort of edgy artsy type parties. They are more experimental but still had a good beat.

Shitty pop bands like Duran Duran is what you would hear all over the radio and teen high school dances set up by baby Fraus trying to be trendy. They still love that shit.

Here's a good summary of New Wave music OP:

I recall Cut The Talking by an Australian band was THE dance number in cool gay clubs, yet weirdly it never broke into the mainstream airplay, and the band broke up despite coming up with a string of potential hits, and great lead singer who was still apparently washing dishes in restaurants! It was just when varilights and computer programming for lightshows came in, and the chorus of the song lent itself to them.

Such a Shame was one of Talk Talk's biggest hits. Really an under rated band for the time. It was less valley girl and more gay underground club type music. Great music to get high to.

Depeche Mode’s first album, Speak and Spell, was definitely new wave. From the second album onwards, their sound took a much darker edge and they moved away from new wave.

Janet even did new wave on her first album.

^Love my way, it's a new road

R37 has a pretty good summary. The only thing I'd add was that, at least in the beginning, New Wave and Punk were adjacent. Musically Punk would be faster, more raw, but there were overlaps... Minuteman, though punk, had jazzy new wavish elements. Joy Division, though New Wave, had punkish angst and bitter minimalism.

New Wave and Punk were both reactions to the bloated, over-produced "dinosaur" much that mainstream rock had become (and not just the prog rock influence seeping into bands like Rush). But these distinctions are useful for historical analysis... and lines blur. Neil Young (i.e. Tonight's the Night) was mainstream and raw both. And while New Wave morphed into synth-pop confections (especially in UK), it also influenced mainstream (The Clash grew out of punk/new wave and became - at the time - the greatest rock band of its generation; The Police soaked up New Wave's ska and became a huge mainstream rock success).

Anyone here old enough to remember how “groundbreaking” Who’s Next was because Townsend used a synthesizer in about half the songs? It was the first “high tech” rock album & Townsend was declared a genius. (Meanwhile, Glyn John’s really put it together because Townshend was too drunk). It’s so quaint nowadays.

Townshend can’t decide if he’s a serious musician or an iconoclast. He never talks about his novelty songs anymore (Pictures of Lily, Odorono, I’m a Boy, Tattoo, Squeeze Box) and in just about every interview he negates whatever he said in his previous interview.

I read an interview a few years ago where the interviewer told Townsend “you said that you believe xxxxx.....” and Townshend said “I did not! I would never say that.” And the guy said, “It’s from my 1995 interview with you,” and Townshend says “Your notes must be wrong.”

The interviewer says “They’re not my notes. It’s from the actual interview I wrote up and sent to you to review before I published it. “

“I can’t believe I said that.”

The interviewer: “I have tapes at home...”

“Well, that’s not how I remember it...”

R35, see for me, I find that by the mid-80s that horrible, tinny, cheap sound was so prevalent that I have trouble enjoying it so much. And all those 12" remixes that just awkwardly put a computerised bongo drums breakdown in the middle, ugh! BUT, of course there was still really great stuff all through the 80s that may not necessarily have been as front and centre in the charts and didn't have to conform to what we think of as "80s sound" now. A song like "Peek a Boo" by Siouxsie and the Banshees is a fantastic song that still sounds fresh today, I feel.

It's only natural to me that when I start defining the years I think music was best, I am going to start noticing all the great stuff that happens outside that period too, haha.

There will be exceptions, I know, but I do feel a number of the New Wave songs that would be considered novelty songs today (Pop Muzik, Safety Dance etc) are a hell of a lot easier to take on repeat listenings that the novelty songs from my youth (That Crazy Frog song, anyone?)

[quote]Shitty pop bands like Duran Duran is what you would hear all over the radio and teen high school dances set up by baby Fraus trying to be trendy. They still love that shit.

Duran Duran weren't shitty pop, they were good pop.

^Yeah, no. Blondie and The Cars are great pop/pop-rock. Duran Duran on the other hand

I'm glad someone mentioned the New Romantics, because that was a nearly separate genre (sub-genre?) of music that overlapped with the New Wave/post-Punk time period. Adam and the Ants were the big representation of this, Ultravox, Culture Club, Spandau Ballet and Human League were also grouped here imo. Duran Duran (yes, "good pop") were also New Romantics during their early, puffy shirt Planet Earth/Girls on Film period.

People keep mentioning The Cars as New Wave, and although they had some elements incorporated in their music I wouldn't categorize them there. They were an excellent band however, their first two albums very much of their era ('78-80) yet still timeless sounding even today.

I came across an Adam and the Ants video the other day, "Prince Charming" and I thought he was actually really cute when he wasn't glammed up. For some reason I wasn't expecting that.

People don't believe me when I say the Village People attempted to stay relevant by going New Romantic, but they did for about two minutes.

Then it was back to the old costumes and playing the hits.

Duran Duran is awesome. Some great music... deep cuts, not just the pop hits. "New Religion", "Medazzaland", "All She Wants Is", "Paper Gods", "The Man Who Stole A Leopard", and so many more.

I know it's 'hip' to shit on duran duran (mostly out of toxic masculinity rearing its ugly head), but they're incredibly talented (John Taylor in particular is a very under-rated bassist), and they have some great music as well as classic hits that literally defined the 80s.

And they're totally New Romantic/New Wave.

There are so many here who have no idea WTF they are talking about.

A lot of music got lumped in with the New Wave label, most of it wasn't New Wave at all. Rock, punk, New Romantic, even old R'n'B somehow got lumped in with New Wave, mostly because some older music was being played by derivative 'new wave' bands. Especially as the style of some of these bands music and clothing was very derivative, especially from the 1960s. Female musicians of the time were wearing miniskirts and go-go boots, basically styles right out of the 1960s.

Lazy radio program directors were even lumping in 1960s music, such as R'n'B and even "Louie, Louie" as New Wave because their radio DJs were playing a varied mix of music which was being played in the new hip music clubs of that era.

There was one radio station in NYC, WPIX-FM, which was great for about two years, they were doing this. Their DJs would play The Police, Costello, Duran Duran, The Clash, Sex Pistols, old Ska music, B-52s (iirc, only Rock Lobster was out at the time, their first LP wasn't out yet), tons of new British bands including both punk and rock bands, 1960s American R'n'B (Wilson Pickett, Four Tops etc) and even the aforementioned "Louie, Louie" yet their DJ's were calling ALL this music "New Wave".

Any very young fans at the time would be confused by the New Wave label, especially as very little of the re-configured music styles were new. Many fans likely had no clue the R'n'B music WPIX-FM was playing, was not current music. Personally, it was great that very young pop music fans were being exposed to the great R'n'B of the 1960s and older pop and rock music. In fact , I wish radio had less formula programming. That seemed to be WPIX-FM's downfall, their diversity in their playlists! Most people simply like to be spoon-fed whatever is popular, rather than exploring new and exciting things, that includes music.

There's a world of already recorded music out there, music fans should explore and appreciate it. There's no need to listen to tone-deaf crap like Taylor Swift or whatever garbage 'music' is currently out there and being shoved down out throats.

The label 'New Wave' was simply a marketing tool, nothing more.

This IS the NEW WAVE!

A Space Age Love Song - A Flock of Sea Gulls

R63 I think you've completed the argument against yourself....

"New Wave" was a turning away from the arena-sized, overproduced, slick, Rock dinosaurs... which definition also contains multitudes: Eagles and Fleetwood Mac slick rock, Aerosmith arena riffers, sugar seditious BGs, Springsteen ambitions....

R65, who cares if 'new wave' was supposedly a backlash against bloated 'arena rock', that wasn't my point at all.

I know tons of people who listed to 'new wave, 'punk' and whatever 'new ' music was out at the time we've been discussing, yet these music fans were still into Led Zeppelin and other bands who were considered 'dinosaurs', especially prog-rock music, bands such as Yes and ELP.

People like what the like, they can listen to whatever music they enjoy. Springsteen has sure survived many different eras of labeling music. He's still massively popular and is now an icon.

[quote]This IS the NEW WAVE! A Space Age Love Song - A Flock of Sea Gulls

A Flock of Seagulls was basically pop music played by guys in silly haircuts wearing even sillier clothing. I saw them live, they were pretty good. I think they opened for The Police.

If only people had simply paid attention to the music, not the artifice and the gimmicks. You sure don't see ANY of that when you listen to the music! This applies to music from any era.

The Pretenders

Talking Heads

The Cure

Depeche Mode

The Cars

And speaking of cars, Gary Numan

[quote]I think they opened for The Police.

Only in a couple cities.

Duran Duran were off their tits on cocaine, and their lyrics prove it. Absolute gobbledegook.

KROQ-2 is the webcast version of LA’s famous “Rock of the 80s” station K-Rock. Their on air & main web station plays more current music, while KROQ-2 plays everything from their late 70s - mid 90s heyday playlists. If you love this era It’s a great station to have on the computer as you work.

R70 hasn't listened to any recent Duran Duran.

You realize they've been consistently putting out albums, right? The last just a few years ago, and a new one would have happened this year but for Covid...

His follow-up to Maniac was good too.

^^Whoops, wrong thread.

The Cars succeeded during that era, in part because they avoided the overproduced sound of the 60s and 70s. Supposedly their music was engineered to sound good on car radios. Ric Ocasek and Benjamin Orr had been working musicians for years, though, so they didn't quite fit with the model of people picking up an instrument and learn a few chords ethos.

R68, that's post-punk, not new wave.

I love, love, love post punk! New wave doesn't compare, IMO.

A lot of New Wave bands had a female singer who was sexy and cool: Blondie, Pretenders, Waitresses, Motels, Til Tuesday, Altered Images, Berlin, Missing Persons, Scandal. More band's should have hot cool chicks as lead singers.

Were The Primitives considered new wave? I'm not particularly a fan, just somewhat curious?

[quote]I know it's 'hip' to shit on duran duran (mostly out of toxic masculinity

Oh shut the fuck up you dried up old Frau. I was there, their music sucked the first time I heard it. Had nothing to do with "toxic masculinity". The reason it was so popular with teen girls was because it was non threatening, not edgy, not original but had a typical sound of manufactured boy band of the time that girls seem to love no matter how fake and fabricated it is.

Duran Duran was pop GARBAGE.

[quote] [R70] hasn't listened to any recent Duran Duran. You realize they've been consistently putting out albums, right?

You realize no one has played their "new" songs on the radio in 30 years right? Garbage in = garbage out.

Those first album videos filmed in Sri Lanka were a brilliant move by Duran Duran, it captured their ethereal beauty of youth at the perfect moment.

Stupidest fucking videos. R81. I dont know anyone who was around at the time who thought otherwise. Ethereal Beauty of youth? OMFG, Get out the Yankee candles and a vibrator you tired old cunt. You really are delusional.

"Words" - Missing Persons

R79 should listen to Duran Duran's "Pop Trash" album :-)

You have an unhealthy hatred of that ground-breaking and hugely influential New Wave band.

They're awesome and I make no apologize for loving them. They've done some amazing work and put out some amazing albums.

R82 is seriously bitter.

Everyone loved those Duran Duran videos. They were works of art.

Again, not true, R80.

Someone has serious Duran hate. Duran Duran were new romantic club music that morphed into commercial mainstream funk pretty boy pop at their height of popularity. I loved them through Notorious then I didn’t anymore.

Duran Duran were lightweight, mediocre. No better nor worse than a lot of pop acts of their era. The ocean videos weren't really memorable.

Lots of "anti-toxic-masculinity" acts to like in the 80s that were more interesting...

Duran Duran was Maroon 5

R88/R89 are full of shit, of course.

r90 is right. Duran Duran was infinitely more boring than Maroon 5. Whenever I want to laugh about the music of the '80s, I think of Duran Duran. And by "laugh about," what I mean is "laugh at," not "laugh with."

All of that said, Maroon 5 lost me with the Jagger song, and I now find them as profoundly dull as Duran Duran.

Duran Duran should have called itself Dullard Dullard.

R79 Duran Duran wasn't/isn't a boy band. You sound like people today who say 5SOS is a boy band. It was a band. They played instruments. I was not a big fan at first but they won me over. Their videos alone were so advanced. Maybe Simon was not the strongest vocalist, but overall they were very good, they had a huge number of singles in the top 100 for a reason.

[quote]In fact , I wish radio had less formula programming. That seemed to be WPIX-FM's downfall, their diversity in their playlists! Most people simply like to be spoon-fed whatever is popular, rather than exploring new and exciting things, that includes music.

R63 Corporations were the downfall of music on the radio. There are around 5 or 6 huge corporations now, that own the music business. Anti-trust laws aren't enforced. Radio, labels, publications, movie soundtracks. All interconnected, they tell you what to listen to and what you're supposed to like. Programming directors and DJs on popular stations no longer have any say.

R91 doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

STFU about Duran Duran you twats.

It’s over,

[quote]Ric Ocasek and Benjamin Orr had been working musicians for years, though, so they didn't quite fit with the model of people picking up an instrument and learn a few chords ethos.

Same with The Police, they sure weren't a punk band. Guess their manager Miles Copeland didn't know how to promote them.

Andy Summers was a seasoned session musician and the oldest member of The Police. Summers was 37 in 1979, 37 was considered quite old by punk rock standards. Andy had been in a later version of The Animals and worked with Kevin Ayers. Stewart Copeland had been in a prog-rock band, Curved Air and Sting had never played in a rock band before joining The Police, he was in a jazz band back in Newcastle.

[quote]Everyone loved those Duran Duran videos. They were works of art.

R85 also thinks wearing oversized baggy cloths, with neon accents, big hair and shoulder pads was the best fashion era of the century.

This is what I say about Duran Duran.

Temper, Temper by Jo Kennedy - from the Australian New Wave musical "Starstruck" 1982

Lene Lovich - Lucky Number 1979

Lene Lovich is great, I've just discovered her recently. Love "New Toy", "Bird Song", "One in a Million", "Sleeping Beauty" and so many more. Plus there's a really cute couple of clips of her and Nina Hagen from the movie Cha Cha. In one they are singing backup for Herman Brood together at a bar, and another they are wandering the streets of 70s Berlin singing "Пусть всегда будет солнце".

You bitches are slipping.

The Flirts - Jukebox (Don't Put Another Dime)

The Flirts - Jukebox (Don't Put Another Dime)

[quote]Everyone loved those Duran Duran videos. They were works of art.

[quote]R85 also thinks wearing oversized baggy cloths, with neon accents, big hair and shoulder pads was the best fashion era of the century.

Ah, those oversize baggy cloths. I used to take mine off the dining room table and wear it to the club.

Wikipedia says, about Duran Duran: Many of their videos were shot on 35 mm film, which gave a much more polished look than was standard at the time. They also collaborated with professional film directors to take the quality a step further, often teaming up with Australian director Russell Mulcahy for some of their most memorable video offerings.

So their videos were considered state of the art, and please STFU. Btw Russell Mulcahy was the director of Teen Wolf, helping to give that show its visual flair.

Klaus Nomi, one of the original - and most original - New Wave artists

[quote] Wikipedia says, about Duran Duran:... polished look than was standard at the time. So their videos were considered state of the art, and please.

That's called a fabricated boy band you tired cunt. In fact thank you for proving my point, any band that gets "polished" is basically a shitty pop band fabricated by hacks who don't care about art they care about what sells to the masses which is often formulaic trash.

The very nature of New Wave was NOT to be highly polished and commercialized, it was experimental and avant-garde.

R59 While The Cars may not be a New Wave band, "Shake It Up" is New Wave.

Johnny Slash from Square Pegs was totally New Wave.

R107: part of New Wave was to be experimental and avant garde while looking glitzy and polished. It all derived from Bowie and Roxy Music. Duran Duran were most certainly New Wave. That doesn't mean you had to like them. You can hate them with as much fury you can muster but they were New Wave.

R110 Most of this thread doesn't disputing that Duran Duran was "New Wave" - just that they weren't really very memorable.

R111: And that's fine. It's just New Wave is such an all encompassing genre people can't understand that an all guitar band and an all syth band can be New Wave.

R97, get off my lawn!

For all the faults, 80’s music, for me at least, was the last era before all the the heavy “commercialization” (yes, it has always existed but not like now), auto tune, etc. really took over.

My friends and me, if we liked it, we liked it. And we didn’t obsess over how it was labeled/niche, etc.

YMMV (your mileage may vary)

R107 is so full of shit.

And duran duran has several of the most classic 80s hits, along with several amazing 90s hits ("Ordinary World", "Come Undone", "Too Much Information").

And their most recent two albums -- Paper Gods, and All You Need Is Now -- were critically acclaimed.

R107 You don't have a clue what you're saying. A boy band is a male vocal group, in their teens/20s, aimed at a young teen girl audience, often performing choreography. Examples would be Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Big Time Rush, One Direction, BTS, and Why Don't We.

Duran Duran is a band. Performing as a band, with instrumentalists and a lead vocalist.

Oingo Boingo - Little Girls

[quote]You don't have a clue what you're saying. A boy band is a male vocal group, in their teens/20s, aimed at a young teen girl audience, often performing choreography. Duran Duran is a band. Performing as a band, with instrumentalists and a lead vocalist.

For teen girls that is. I dont know a single guy gay or straight who was into New Wave and also thought they were anything other than a manufactured pop sound for teen girls.

Agree that New Wave was like a 2nd British Invasion. There was something fresh and fun about it. I remember liking General Public and Fine Young Cannibals. Still like Fine Young Cannibals.

Sparks (with Jane Wiedlin) - "Cool Places"

R117 For teen girls that is. I dont know a single guy gay or straight who was into New Wave and also thought they were anything other than a manufactured pop sound for teen girls.

Yeah, well I liked them and I wasn't a teen girl. They were Princess Diana's favorite band.. They were art school students, who formed their own band, in Birmingham. UK, they played club dates, they were not a manufactured pop sound for teenagers. Yes, they were considered that, but that was false. A lot of musicians have named them as an influence, Beck, Goldfrapp, The Killers, Pink.

R60 You are only just realizing that Adam Ant was sex on a stick? Cuz it's a whole thing. Beautiful, gorgeous man.

New Wave was basically punk-inflected, guitar-driven power pop like Blondie, the Knack, the Cars, the Go-Gos, the B-52s, which segued into synth-driven British New Romanticism.

The label really died out around 1984, and it just became pop.

It was the forerunner of "college rock" — basically "what young people were doing post-1979 other than disco and bland AOR."

R121, yeah I'd never really paid attention to him before, I only barely knew who he was to be honest.

[quote]I dont know a single guy gay or straight who was into New Wave and also thought they were anything other than a manufactured pop sound for teen girls.

Generalizing from personal experience is a logical fallacy... and a really dumb one to engage in.

In my 20s, I and two straight guys were HUGE Duran Duran fans.

So you're just fucking wrong. I don't really give a shit what you WANT to believe is true... it doesn't matter what you believe. Reality doesn't give a shit about your idiotic prejudices.

Why do certain posters mention teen age girls like they're the worst human beings on the face of the earth and your music is not note worthy unless boys liked it?

Sexism & Misogyny is real.

Almost as if it were written for the future DL:

I'm alone / Sitting with my empty glass / My four walls / Follow me through my past

Loud and clear r126. The young female audience has always been the biggest record buyers, no matter what genre.

Boys liked New Wave. Period.

R129 BS. The whole pre-goth alternative girls in HS who loved Blondie, Patty Smith, Joy Division, the Cure, Suzie and the Banshees...

[quote]New Wave - was a new wave of pop sound. Syth heavy, floaty sound and lyrics - experimentation with sounds. Thompson Twins were a perfect example of it.

no, that came after new wave.

R130 I really question the likelihood of American high school students having been into, or really knowing Joy Division at all except in retrospect. Curtis died before the first American tour, so the idea that there was any mainstream high school knowledge or interest seems very unlikely. Maybe on the college level where they were producing their own alternative radio stations and playing cutting edge music. That’s where I first heard really progressive music in the early 1980s at of all places a state university in Western Pennsylvania, but stuff like that wasn’t playing on the commercial radios at that time except maybe in NYC or LA.

Thomas Dolby - Europa and the Pirate Twins

Yazoo - Don't Go

I Know What Boys Like - The Waitresses

[quote]I really question the likelihood of American high school students having been into, or really knowing Joy Division at all except in retrospect. Curtis died before the first American tour, so the idea that there was any mainstream high school knowledge or interest seems very unlikely.

Talk about generalizing, I attended a NYC art high school, I was listening to all sorts of avant-garde music, such as free jazz and underground rock music during my time there. In NYC, even before Tower opened, there were small indie records shops which sold imports, any kind of music was always accessible. Even for the show tunes crowd, they could find imported show tunes LPs at a record in the theater district called Colony Records. Colony closed around 2012, they were open over 50 years. Colony actually sold most genres of music.

It's amazing how many people are clueless.

R136 Exactly, it's essentialist lazy thinking. "This is the kind of HS student I think I know, so it's conclusive all others are like it." My reference point is HS in CA. Among certain demographics the access to alternative or outré music was a marker of you coolness. Knowing about, and listening to Joy Division, is something achieved by a "cool" HS student going to an alternative music record store, reading 'zines. All HS students? No, of course not. HS students in Des Moines? Maybe...

Yeah, I was in high school in the late 90s, and for those years myself and many of my peers were much more interested in listening to what was called 'alternative' and 'underground' radio. We'd also dig through our parents old vinyls to find stuff and then record it on cassette for each other. And we'd listen to top 40 too. We were much more varied than it seems some people would think. These are people's formative years, and music exploration was always a huge part of that for us. So I can totally imagine high schoolers knowing all sorts of stuff back in the late 70s/early 80s too.

Joy Division released their first EP in June 1979 and Curtis kills himself May 1980 effectively ending the band, which had agreed previously that should the line up of the band ever change the name would die there. There’s no way that a struggling Manchester band is making an impact in the US during the 11 months that they have a released album. Any success they have after that is as a defunct band.

R139 Because they were "defunct" it voids the fact that kids knew and liked them? (In fact, Curtis' suicide acted to greatly expand their popularity)

The rules keep changing.

R139 They may have liked and been into them the same way that they may have liked and been into the Velvet Underground as an historical band, there was little or no awareness among American High School girls of Joy Division as a contemporary musical act the way they might have been with Blondie, The Cure, Patty Smith, and Suzie and the Bashees as per R130. They are not sitting in Science talking about their songs climbing the charts and being on Kasey Kasams count down, nor waiting for the next album to drop because there never would be another one. For most Americans, the music of Joy Division represented a time capsule, by the time they discovered them they were already gone. And yes, that was part of the mystique and attraction for many, especially for a groups like the proto goths.

[quote]Among certain demographics the access to alternative or outré music was a marker of you coolness. Knowing about, and listening to Joy Division, is something achieved by a "cool" HS student going to an alternative music record store, reading 'zines. All HS students? No, of course not. HS students in Des Moines? Maybe...

I totally agree with you.

There's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't understand the concept that, yes, in-the-know high schoolers, especially in California and NYC, sure were aware of Joy Division.

This person who keeps arguing also doesn't seem to realize, teens into underground/alternative music knew exactly where to find it and there were always tons of UK music mags available, which could easily be purchased in major cities.

For example, two UK weekly music papers, NME and the now defunct Melody Maker, were sold at most major city newsstands and of course, in the indie records shops. I know some people who managed to find the original UK Time Out magazine.

When Tower opened in NYC, they had a vast import music magazine section, they even sold Japanese music mags. If you craved a different type of rock music, you could seek it out and always find it.

Its annoying the thread has devolved into fighting over Duran Duran, of all bands.

Much thanks to r106 for the link to Klaus Nomi. Brilliant stuff, I'd never heard of him. Sent me down real rabbit hole there, looking up his stuff.

R142 "Love will tear us apart" was played on KROQ during the 79-80 winter. Cool kids liked it. Not sure why it's an argument.

[quote]Why do certain posters mention teen age girls like they're the worst human beings on the face of the earth and your music is not note worthy unless boys liked it?

Because highly disposable income spent on the most shallow of things in life elevating garbage to iconic status.

Teen Girls = Kardashian Billion Dollar Empire

[quote] Generalizing from personal experience is a logical fallacy... and a really dumb one to engage in....In my 20s, I and two straight guys were HUGE Duran Duran fans.

LMFAO Barks at someone for generalizing form personal experience then goes on to do the same. Pot Meet Kettle.

[quote]Duran Duran....Yeah, well I liked them and I wasn't a teen girl. They were Princess Diana's favorite band

Thanks for proving my point. You realize Princess Diana was 16 when she met Prince Charles right? Their first album came out when she was about 18 or 19. That's still basically teen girl market.

The B-52's - Full Concert - 11/07/80 - Capitol Theatre

R145: and you think that's only teenage girls? Misogyny rears it's ugly head again.

New York to East California, there's a New Wave comin' I warn ya...

Kim Wilde - Kids In America

Elvis Costello was considered New Wave? IDTS. In fact, I disagree with the inclusion of many of the artists and groups listed below.

It's like confusion between whether "New Wave" means a style, particularly of instrumentation, production, and presentation; or simply an era.

Teen boys = Multi-billion-dollar video game empire.

In regards to the Double Duran squabbling, girls, girls, neither one of you are pretty.

Is. Is pretty.

Depech Mode looks like they were into the gay culture before they hit it big.

[quote]Its annoying the thread has devolved into fighting over Duran Duran, of all bands.

I guess we're only allowed to fight about Joy Division.

R156 Well, if you're going to fight, fight about what matters.

R151 Elvis Costello was absolutely New Wave. An analysis of his music could well conclude singer-songwriter roots, but his energy, his aesthetics and presentation in the My Aim is True album is classic definition of New Wave - the short hair (a critical New Wave marker), the geek glasses, the retro-body posture (a lot of 50s rockabilly in New Wave music), the sport coat and tie (what 70s hippie band wore sport coats?)... dictionary definition of New Wave.

And he led a group of other "angry, sensitive" male solo artists that were New Wave-chronical : Graham Parker, Joe Jackson, Marshall Crenshaw, Nick Lowe...

New Wave or post-punk Power Pop? The late Stuart Adamson's first band The Skids, 1979's Into The Valley.

[quote]And he led a group of other "angry, sensitive" male solo artists that were New Wave-chronical : Graham Parker, Joe Jackson, Marshall Crenshaw, Nick Lowe...

But are these artists really "New Wave" (pure definition) -? Nick Lowe was originally a country-ish/blues performer with Brinsley Schwarz, a typical pub band. He and Costello fall more into the post-punk "Power Pop" category to me, which is certainly related to New Wave but not part of that genre itself.

The B-52s, Klaus Nomi (see upthread), Devo, The Flirts, Lene Lovich, early Split Enz: these are all pure New Wave acts imo. The Cars (mentioned here several times), Duran Duran, the Knack, most of Blondie's output: post-punk era Pop/Rock.

R159 It's a point of intelligent conversation, but, having lived through the era with a real focus on music (and drugs, and politics, and cultural studies), those artists (Joe Jackson's shoes!!) were well with in the aesthetic and wave of New Wave. All the music we are calling, or claiming "New Wave" ultimately are pop music and later success simply made them musical artists... looking back through the filters of history. But "New Wave" adjacent and grown from the "punk" reaction to Big Rock was a thing. Curious that Talking Heads wasn't mentioned more in this thread... I think they are the Ur Band of New Wave energy. Psycho Killer was not something that Fleetwood Mac nor the Eagles would singer....

Nothing about them? The Smiths along with The Cure and Depeche Mode were the big three among the New Wave bands.

Now that The Cure and Depeche are in R&R Hall of Fame--The Smiths should be next.

The epitome of New Wave

[quote]Curious that Talking Heads wasn't mentioned more in this thread... I think they are the Ur Band of New Wave energy. Psycho Killer was not something that Fleetwood Mac nor the Eagles would singer....

I do agree with this, re TH.

I too lived thru that era. I just feel "pure" New Wave had a more defined sound and visual/sonic aesthetic that can be recognized and categorized, as opposed to the wider and broader "Pop/Rock". Where would you put The Cure, REM, or the Pretenders? All of them sometimes called "New Wave, yet their sound and look was so different from say, Oingo Boingo or Devo.

R163 Mostly agree - there was (were) a unique New Wave musical sound(s) - punk and New Wave opened up the field - The Pretenders were a classic rock band... updated to 80s musical sensibilities. Their "new waveness" was because a woman was the lead... not just a singer in front of the band (Stevie Nicks) but Hynde was the lead rock star, she was the band. But they and others in the 80s (REM, where the hell did that jangly mumbled sound come from), and the Cure (gothy lugubrious sludge with that chirpy guitar on top) happened because New Wave injected rock with a new zeitgeist, but they flourished after the opening.

Musically, there were different kinds of music part of the breach... how do you conclude that the agitated tenseness of Devo and the smooth slick druggy R&B of Mink DeVille were part of one single movement. They weren't, but they were.

[quote] Well, if you're going to fight, fight about what matters.

R157 Not sure who made you the gatekeeper of what matters.

Also the reggae influenced two-tone/ska , all New Wave. English Beat, The Specials, Madness and The Selector.

R162 Since I had already posted Lucky Number at R100 I will post something new - New Toy, written by Thomas Dolby, who can be seen playing keyboard in the video below.

Talk Talk by Talk Talk 1981

R101 Her Blue Hotel album is great too.

R150 Speaking of kids in America, Unit 3 & Venus - Pajama Party. Lead singer Venus was 8 years old.

No, R146, not the same thing. I was simply refuting his point with a piece of evidence.

Dumbass.

Lene Lovich was definitely NOT New Wave. Elvis Costello and Nic Lowe were not New Wave, neither either were Graham Parker, Joe Jackson, Marshall Crenshaw, Nick Lowe.

Nick Lowe had been in the music biz awhile, he was older than most of the musicians he worked with and over the years, before he went solo, then worked with Dave Edmunds, Nick worked in many genres of rock music. In case some you are unaware, there are many sub-genres of rock music. btw, Nick is now 71 and Dave is 76! Costello is 66.

New Wave was just another gimmick to push both good and bad musicians, it was nothing more than a music biz marketing gimmick. The bands that proved that had it, had true talent, survived that stupid New Wave label, they became very famous. The Police got lumped in with New Wave, they sure weren't a New Wave band, let alone a punk band, which they were also marketed as. They were simply excellent musicians with a backgrounds in progressive rock and jazz.

In the US, New Wave bands were more defined by their fashion aesthetic, the musicians men and women, usually wore bright neon colors and harkened back to the 1960s in as far are both their clothing and their musical influences. I'd reckon The Go-Gos (even though thy started as a punk band) were more New Wave than Lene Lovich ever was!

Klaus Nomi was in a category all his own. Operatic rock?

Well goddamn r172, if none of those artists are New Wave, who the fuck is? Everyone of them are New Wave. Your too narrow minded.

Lene Lovich absolutely was New Wave. She was in fact considered a leading figure of the New Wave scene in the UK after "Lucky Number" did so well.

This thread is bizarre. So many people are so angry at each other over New Wave. Why?

[quote]New York to East California

This always made me feel bad for poor Los Angeles

R174: 2020

I think many people here are naming favorite bands that they loved from the early 80s which were very popular - most of these bands were capitalizing upon the already labeled "New Wave Sound".

Prior to that, music was just being made as an effort to follow in Kraftwerk's footsteps, and utilize the new synthesizers that were becoming commercially available (and the bands didn't have much else going for them other than being lucky enough to have an early synth and ability to generally play it). Just add a captivating group of other musicians and a singer, a la the New Romantics, then you had what ended up being CALLED New Wave in retrospect. But these early bands were not calling themselves New Wave. Once the genre was named, then it lost its meaning, and became pop.

Duran Duran, unfortunately, like many bands, very quickly turned pop after some initial great experimentation. Songs like "Tel Aviv", "Anyone Out There", "Khanada", "Faster than Light" all carry that dark lo-fi mysterious aura of early Brit New Wave before it turned to pop/hooks.

Having lived through the era and having played synth in some shitty bands back then myself, if anyone is interested in my recommends for further research, here are some great bands that I feel truly fill the brief of "New Wave", all bands that didn't have any hits at all and were just a few early pioneers of the sounds we love:

Academy

Andie Oppenheimer (and Oppenheimer Analysis)

Au Pairs

Blue Hollow

Camera Obscura

Cee Farrow

Experimental Products

Human Switchboard

Icehouse

Inner Landscapes

Nervus Rex

Personal Effects

Peter Baumann (and Tangerine Dream)

Sparks

Strange Advance

Trek with Quintronic

Visage

[quote]Prior to that, music was just being made as an effort to follow in Kraftwerk's footsteps, and utilize the new synthesizers that were becoming commercially available (and the bands didn't have much else going for them other than being lucky enough to have an early synth and ability to generally play it).

Synths weren't new to popular music. Jazz singer Annette Peacock and her late husband free-jazz pianist Paul Bley were using synths in the 1960s. Emerson, Lake & Palmer and a host of other prog-rock bands, such as Yes and many other UK prog bands, were using synths in the 1970s.

We need a rock/pop music historian in here to bring some actual facts into this conversation.

R178 Agree, for the most part synths were actually antithetical to the New Wave ethos - associated with "Prog Rock"... the synths is a lot of the bands listed have more in common with the original Genesis than Talking Heads.

If Elvis Costello is not new wave, the ground of discussion isn't very agreed upon for dialogue. As was said upthread - 2020 and current culture needs us to attack and disparage. Post Trumpian destruction - epistemology's very DNA has been hacked.

R178, you take me out of context.

The New Wave we cherish was made by young unestablished people who were using the new models of synths now becoming commercially available. The earlier artists you refer to were not that at all...and certainly weren't following Kraftwerk.

Please keep the topic on point.

Blancmange - Blind Vision

In the end, it's ALL just popular music.

WHY must a music audience need to label anything? Simply enjoy what's out there.

If music stopped being recorded today, there would still be millions of recordings, of all genres, out there for the world to enjoy. This entire discussion is absurd.

R180, no I didn't take you out of context at all.

Kraftwerk formed in 1969. Their first LP was out in1970. One of their most famous LPs, AUTOBAHN, came out in 1974.

Pretty sure Keith Emerson and the 1970s prog rockers who were using synths were quite aware of Kraftwerk. Prog bands might not have been copying Kraftwerk's music, but they sure were aware of other bands.

Do you actually think working musicians are not aware of their competitors or that they actually don't listen to other types of music? Seriously?

IceHouse was an awesome band, who also, like so many others, went totally pop.

Level 42 went from sorta improvisational jazz flavored new wave to full on pop as well.

It's hard to say Duran Duran went "full on pop" because what other band could get away with a song like "Wild Boys" on the radio? I remember hearing it for the first time, and thought for sure it would fail... but it succeeded purely on the power of their fame & reputation I think.

Spandau Ballet is yet another that went from almost experimental, to full blown smooth pop.

It was apparently a very common trajectory.

It think it's Godwin's Corollary that the first person to invoke Kraftwerk . . . loses.

R185...although having been cautioned...

R183 Exactly... the Germans totally synthed out Prog Rockers in the 70s and both were sources for much of the Brit synth bands of the 80s. Tangerine Dream were founded in 1967 and had 8 albums out by 1975.

Yo bitches - Eurythmics? Am quite sure at the time they were leading the New Wave. But now...too polished? Too pop?

Eurythmics were definitely New Wave but like The Human League, they were also commercial pop as well. Very slick synthpop arrangements. Annie Lennox was such a great singer. Really wonderful.

R101 I saw Lene Lovich in concert at The Palace (formerly the Hollywood Palace) in 1983. She was touring to promote her latest single, which became my favorite Lene Lovich song.

Lene looks weird with those brown contact lenses, she has light eyes.

I saw Lene on the STIFF Tour, at the small, now defunct, Bottom Line club in Greenwich Village. There were so many performers, I can't remember who else was on the tour. The bands were most of the performers signed to the STIFF label.

Definitely seems like it was an all-purpose term for any late 70s/early 80s band that wasn't "classic rock" or disco and encompassed a wide range of styles.

Bus Boys - Did You See Me

For me, "New Wave" has always meant "80s Alternative". Nearly interchangable.

Basically, "New Wave" is anything you hear on Sirius XM's "First Wave" channel.

R191 -- I think you actually get closest to how it was perceived at the time -- New Wave was mostly defined as what it wasn't -- Disco or Rock. I was in HS in outerboro NYC 77-81; so for the most part NOT the cool/artsy kids who would live in or go into Manhattan regularly and be up on the more obscure bands. The two major cliques at the time were guidos who were in to disco; and burnouts who liked The Who / Queen. There was some crossover popularity with bands like Blondie and The Police with people in both those groups, but the kids who like Ant Music & Costello were defiantly seen by the others as weirdo faggots. I remember the homeroom discussion Monday morning after Kate Bush had performed on SNL -- we didn't know what the FUCK we had watched.

The sad thing is that there has been no musical innovation since.

Worked college radio and I keep up with it now. Nothing new. They sound like the Cure, the B's, Devo, BAD, Tom Tom Club...whatever.

That is sad.

But they were playing Rock-a-billy Xmas songs at one in the morning this morning. And I think there were some my parents sang.

Japan had some big hits in the UK. Some of the toughest guys I knew used to dress like them to get girls.

R195 Pop punk? Hip hop?

No. Rap and urban were having their own Renaissance, again, nothing new,

Still...nothing new 30 years later.

R196, I got REALLY into Japan, and David Sylvian after... LOVE all the Japan stuff, and Sylvian's first three albums (Brilliant Trees, Secrets of the Beehive, and Gone To Earth). Still listen to them. Still love it all.

It's not your typical pop, though Sylvian did do a few 'pop' tracks that charted ("red guitar" most notably).

R195 Still...nothing new 30 years later.

Not sure what you mean. Do you just mean no new genres? Like, Hip hop sounds completely different than it did 30 years ago, but as long as it's hip hop, it's nothing new? Eminem didn't emerge until what? Around 2000? Blink 182 - that wasn't a new sound? Fall Out Boy? Mayday Parade, My Chemical Romance? What about all the types of metal bands that have emerged in the past 30 years? Dillinger Escape Plan, Car Bomb. Doom metal, metalcore, mathcore, etc.

Listen to your local college radio station. Still 1980 to 90 something.

So everything is based on what's on a local college radio station...?

[quote]So everything is based on what's on a local college radio station...?

It did seem like college radio, especially in NYC and CA, were at the forefront of any sort of 'new' rock and pop music. I heard many new bands on college radio before commercial rock stations. For example, I heard Siouxsie/Banshees, The Sex Pistols, The Police, The Specials. Lene Lovich etc on college radio way before their music made it to commercial rock stations.

College radio in NYC as well as NYC's WBAI would be the only places to hear non-commercial rock music. WBAI in particular, which was listener sponsored and left leaning, would play anything they wanted, the more avant-garde the better.