Insomnia — input please, DL!

Whatever you do: do NOT ask your doctor.

I know someone who had this and it turned it was rabies. Hope that helps!

It’s torture. Sorry you’re going through this.

There are some non-medication things I can suggest. I always sleep well after walks outside or yard work. Swimming. On the days that I do yoga, I feel something inside that is peaceful and balanced and ready to rest.

Another thing that might help is a weighted blanket. You can buy them, but I have a huge wool blanket that weighs a ton. I fold it up and lay it over me. It’s weird how effective it is.

Go to sleep with warm socks on, too.

Check your Vitamin D levels and start supplementing if needed?

5-HTP has helped me, and not drinking alcohol.

A good dose of magnesium might help, lavender oil on your pillow and temples. Sounds frau -like but you would be surprised.

Read something boring, OP. Sometimes reading DL puts me right to sleep!

Thank you so much, R3, R4 and R5!

R3 — I’d stopped going to gym these last several weeks because I was so groggy by the time I got off work. Will definitely look into returning, or doing some yoga! I currently already wear warm socks and have a heavy wool blanket I’m going to try tonight!

Will ask my PCP about my Vitamin D levels, R4. The husband has been suggesting that I have some blood work done.

And R5, I’ve never heard of 5HTP, but I’m heading to CVS today!

Thank you again for the most-appreciated input!

Heavy exercise in the morning (never later than 2pm or so anyway), deep breathing, take tryptophan rather than 5-HTP, look into magnesium bisglycinate, in particular mixed with taurine.

OP again, just saw R6 and R7. My sister actually suggested the lavender oil, too, so I will try to find it along with magnesium. I don’t drink at all, so alcohol isn’t a factor.

And R7, thanks for the LOL!

magnesium knocks me right out OP, never fails to put me asleep

Thank you, R9!

OP Treat yourself to a seriously deep tissue massage. Make it 2 hours. Swimming is great as has been mentioned, and post swim a long session in the sauna and steam room.

I don’t know about your sex life but the occasional bottoming for a hung guy exhausts and relaxes me.

r13 same, I sleep like a baby after my butt has been serviced, releases all tension

Exercise OP. You sound a bit high strung and need to "get out of your head" and get active. Also perhaps too much pondering (as in exceptionally long post) creates "self-fulfilling prophecy" scenario.

try this, OP. with a little sweetener it tastes like Wrigley’s gum.

You may want to have a sleep study done. Not the awful ones that tell you in advance you’re getting a CPAP. That’s just the medical equivalent of Kirby vacuum sales.

A proper neurological study may uncover reasons why you wake. As you’ve experienced, medication isn’t necessarily the answer. Ambien is fairly short acting although any use of other substances can have a side effect of somnambulism.

While the first questions for a sleep study are (a) are you overweight and (b) do you snore, they aren’t exclusionary.

It’s worth the one night to get better answers.

[quote]if I get up to urinate, I cannot get back to sleep. Used to be, when I would get up to urinate, I’d fall right back to sleep

Wear a diaper so you can just piss in bed and not get up.

Empathize. Had the same experience here approaching 50. Ended up quitting work because I just could not function on repeated nights of 3 hours of sleep. Then I would sleep for 10+ hours on weekends. Tried to do all the natural things - sleep schedule, meditation, exercise. Nothing worked.

Now without work pressure, I fall asleep eventually - maybe 2-3 AM and wake at 10-11. Realized I just have a weird schedule that doesn’t fit with corporate America. It’s a problem - and I’m poorer because of it. But I was on the verge of a breakdown in my job and increasingly reliant on drugs. Ambien helped - but once you start it, it’s hard to stop.

Good luck. I’m so envious of those who can sleep easily - like my partner. But I’ve accepted that my sleep issues are part of my biological makeup. Like mental illness, some of us are forced to deal with more challenges than others.

Exercise in the morning. Personally, a shower just before bed helps me. Herbal tea or rather plant extract if getting up at night is a problem (chamomile , valerian, lavender, lemon balm etc). Cut off caffeine during the day. Include food that are a source of triptophan, like turkey. Cherries are a source of melatonin. Bananas have potassium and magnesium.

I'd advise you to stay away from the meds for a bit since your body is probable too used to it and it makes them ineffective.

Agree with exercising in the morning. Get up early and do cardio before work. You'll be exhausted by the evening and fall asleep easily.

Also the pills are a bad idea and may be making the problem worse.

I can't fall asleep due to anxiety unless I take NyQuil, every night. I feel for you OP.

OP - this is not a long term solution but maybe a combo of bezos for a short term sleep remedy and some talk therapy for a while. The benzos will shut your mind down and calm your anxiety.. Obviously something is on your mind or your fear of insomnia is creating a self fulfilling prophesy, which the talk therapy might help uncover. Have you tried weed? A nice indica pre bed strain? If you don't want to smoke it, it comes in many forms. You need to get your sleep stabilized and then work out whatever is bothering you.

Join a gym, hon. You need to exhaust your body and mind.

A combo of L-Theanine and Melatonin works for me. Melatonin alone wasn't enough but adding the L'Theanine now gets me through the night. Both of these affect GABA neurotransmitter as do benzos , obviously benzos are stronger.

Benzos are a bad idea. They are addictive, cause memory problems, are known to increase the risk of developing dementia, and you can get a DUI if you are driving and get in an accident while taking them.

OP, your problem is that you are taking too many sleep aids, either OTC or prescription. For short-term therapy it's fine, but for long-term I would like to see you cut those down drastically. How much melatonin are you taking? If you must, I would suggest taking 0.5mg of melatonin, as research shows that it is the lowest dosage that is the most effective for staying asleep. Many of my non-psych colleagues don't know this and I've seen pediatric patients given 8mg of melatonin....well duh of course it didn't work, it make the insomnia worse.

I'm not one of those practitioners that get my patients on loads of meds to treat symptoms. Especially for insomnia I believe there are safer and more effective modalities. Try a good quality magnesium cream, it bypasses the liver and gets absorbed directly into the bloodstream; it is quite effective if applied 1-2 hours before sleep time. Vitamin D, zinc picolinate, and omega-3 would be beneficial for balancing mood, many are deficient in these and there are now studies that show zinc to be particularly crucial for mental health.

I would also recommend an app called Mindfulness, there are timed sessions ranging from 3-30 minutes that have helped many of my patients who started using them at my suggestion. I am a lifelong insomniac starting from when I was about 5 years old. My problem has been overactive mind that can't shut off even when I'm trying to sleep. I find that the Mindfulness app helps me a lot in conjunction with 0.5mg of melatonin, 15 mg of zinc picolinate, 400 U of vitamin DO, and krill oil do the trick for me. If course as you know, the more you think about not sleeping the harder it is to fall asleep. Keep a sleep diary and write down what thoughts are going inside your head that prevent you from sleeping. We often are not confronted with things until we write them down and see it in front of us.

I believe your sleep problem can be fixed, but it's not due to just one thing but a plethora of things that you can do to help yourself. But in the immediate period, I think what you need is a week or two of restorative sleep, and for that purpose you can definitely use ambien, though be careful about rebound insomnia. However I would consider trazodone 25-50 mg for sleep instead of benzodiazepines, see if your GP can prescribe trazodone for that purpose, it's an antidepressant that's used off-label frequently for insomnia and it has fewer side effects than benzodiazepines so much safer, safe enough that we prescribe it as sleep aid for elderly patients with comorbid health conditions or dementia. In fact it is now prescribed for insomnia more than it is as antidepressant. It is a 5-HT2 receptor antagonist, and also suppresses cortisol in the HPA axis, not to mention exerts moderate antihistamine actions but without much anticholinergic side effects.

OP here. I want to thank everyone who’s taken the time to post — I’ve read each and every one, and am most grateful for the helpful input.

I did take several folks’ advice and went to the gym —‘just got back, in fact. It had been several weeks since I’d gone, and I do plan on incorporating it back into my regular routine.

I also purchased some magnesium and some calming lavender oil. I hope that helps.

R27, I REALLY appreciate your input and optimism — your mentioning my need for restorative sleep really struck a nerve, because that’s what I’ve been hoping for all along — a return to my regular sleep patterns!

A poster upthread said I seemed high-strung and said the original post was excessively long. Coming across as high-strung was definitely not my intention, and the reason that I included so much info in the first post was because I wanted folks to know what I’ve already tried so no one suggested something that I’d already attempted.

Again, my sincere thanks to folks who took the time to provide input.

I find it gets worse when you get older. If you dont lead a super active busy life (I dont anymore in retirement)......it makes sleep even harder. Aleve pm use to work for me. Now Im on combo meds for enlarged prostate and one of the meds causes insomnia (flomax) I then also went on a mild presc sleeping med, temazapam. One would work. Now it will put me asleep, but every single night after 3 or 4 hrs ............. I wake up and I have to take another one and then I get another 3 to 4 hrs. I wouldnt hesitate going on presc meds to bring on sleep as there is nothing worse for your health than chronic insomnia.

R27, it’s OP. I was taking 10mg of Melatonin with one Tylenol PM, and that did the trick for a while. Haven’t taken either since I went on the Ambien. Like i wrote, the Ambien helps me fall asleep but lately if I wake up to go the restroom, I cannot get back to sleep.

I saw a few apps: The Mindfulness, #Mindful and Mindful Coach. Is it The Mindfulness you suggest I explore?

None of the pills (magnesium, Ambien, etc.) worked for me.

I would monitor caffeine and alcohol intake.

White noise helped me. I also blacked out the window (Blackout EZ) that's near the bed. That helped!

There are lots of guided meditations on YouTube for relaxation & sleeping. They might not work immediately, but if you're awake anyway, what's the harm in trying.

Just smoke copious amounts of pot, silly

I tried marijuana for sleep, and it worked, until it didn't, because it started causing anxiety after a few months instead. Now it pretty much just makes me anxious and I avoid it. Happens to a lot of people with marijuana.

What's bugging you? Underneath it all.... like are you feeling bad about that corpse in the attic?

Ambien caused me to gain weight. Not surprising, as I ate food during the night, unbeknownst to me. I once woke up to a potato chip bag turned inside out on my living room floor. I'm glad there were other suggestions provided to you here OP, good luck to you.

Stop using Meth.

I began eating right before I go to sleep. Not a big meal, just a snack. Research is now suggesting that being hungry when we're asleep wakes us up. Whatever, it worked for me and I still do it. And again, research said that it does not cause you to gain weight if the calories are fairly consistent.

Lifetime sufferer, too. OP, there's lots of good advice above.

Get a kindle and read for an hour or so, before bed. Lite run in a treadmill at lunch, helps. No caffiene and alcolhol is a really important. Most people take the wrong dose of Melatonin. 5, 10, 20 mg is too much. You should take ONLY 2 mg and you must take it 4 hours before bedtime. Sleep specialist MD's recommend this now based on a scientific sleep study. I know it sounds weird, but light therapy or sitting in the sun for 15 minutes, gets your circadian rhythm back on track. When you miss a night.'s sleep your rhythm becomes inverted.

Dont take OTC sleep meds, they cause a rebound effect. They work for two nights then you try to sleep on your own, on the third night, and your up all night again.

If all else fails, a very very low dose of Seroquel has worked for me.

And you should install a blue light filter for your laptop or phone. I have an add-on extension for the Firefox browser that I installed.

I've been operating on about 4-5 hours a night for around a year, and I feel OK, really. But yeah I wish I could get more, but just can't seem to do it.

Please ask Dr. for Lunesta. Everything you have described sounded like me. Let us hear if it worked. It was exactly what got me to sleep quickly and through the night. Good luck!

OP, don't know what happened to the format of my post. Looks like the DL bot put my list into a single paragraph.

Just wanted to add I can't stand the "Sleep Med hangover" in the morning, so when I discovered my problem with sleep was rooted in Sleep Apnea, I was relieved. See if your doc will order a sleep study. Hopefully you have insurance that will cover it. There's three types of Apnea, Obstructive, Neurological, or Combined. I had Combined. The machine keeps me knocked out all night. It takes a bit getting used to but it helps a lot and no hangovers!

~ r38

I've had terrible insomnia lately too, I've been upping my Melatonin to 20-25 mg a night (sometimes more when desperate) and wonder if this is my problem. I started using that much because this summer was very stressful with my mother in the hospital and dying, and it worked to get me asleep at first, but now I keep waking every 1.5-2 hours, and will take more sublingually out of desperation. Will I have rebound insomnia if I cut down my dose or should I do it slowly? I don't function well with no sleep and can't afford to have completely sleepless nights. Last night I went down to 10mg but got frustrated when I couldn't sleep and took more.

I already take Magnesium Glycinate and don't drink caffeine or alcohol. I stopped exercising and should probably start up again, I've been lazy.

Try Trazodone (sedating older antidepressant) 25 - 100 mg at night. It helps keep people asleep. Not addictive either and you can drink while using it.

I prescribe it to myself as I have developed insomnia in my fifties.

Try this, OP!

Tulsi tea

War and Peace, OP. Has worked for generations of insomniacs.

Reading R27's post literally caused me to fall asleep.

Get off that Ambien. Get off the Tylenol PM too, as it has diphenhydramine (Benadryl) in it.

Keep the eye mask and ear plugs. Stop all liquids including water after 8 pm or so.

While in bed, begin long slow deep breaths - inhale through nose, exhale slowly through mouth.

Visualize your body slowly morphing into a pile of warm honey.

Take up knitting. A thong!

Trazodone worked for me but then gave me heart palpitations and high blood pressure. Rare side-effect. So no these drugs are not entirely harmless and you never know who will be hit by side-effects. I normally tolerate meds OK. Withdrawal from Traz eliminated the palpitations (which btw are very fucking disturbing if you don't know what's happening) and hypertension.

Make a bedtime routine and stick to it. No screens of any kind. The blue toned light fucks with your circadian rhythm. No caffeine after 5pm. Get a book and read it every night until you feel tired then turn off the light and go to sleep. Eventually, reading will become a trigger for your brain to go to sleep. Make this part of your routine.

Stop the pills. One way to ensure lifelong insomnia is to start taking sleeping pills of any kind. You'll never be able to fall asleep on your own again without going cold turkey on those.

And, perhaps, embrace the historical two-sleep pattern. It sounds really weird but supposedly it used to be normal for people to go to sleep. Get up for a while in the middle of the night for a little while. And then go back to sleep again. It might be the reason older people tend to sleep less. Whatever we've used to overcome that cycle, be it hormones or general daily busyness, might lessen with age. Here's an article on it...

there’s something called “night mode” on my computer, phone, & tablet. I use it all the time, day or night. It warms out the blue and isn’t noticeable unless you turn it off.

Try Flux OP - As soon as sun sets, my screen reduces to level of candlelight or incandescent bulb.

Reality is we are not made for 8-6 work schedules. Or not all of us. After a lifetime of insomnia, leaving my 8-6 job and being able to sleep when I needed practically eliminated my insomnia issues.

The anti-drug Nancy Reagan’s here are well-intentioned. But when ones life and mental health are a wreck because of isomnia, meds are often the best of bad alternatives. At one point in my life, a doctor finally was willing to prescribe Ambien after years of horrible insomnia. It was like my life became worth living again and I could function. I will always be grateful for that - and have no regrets about using it when I needed to. Being able to sleep was more important than years of talk therapy, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety meds.

Ask your doctor for the extended release version (Ambien ER). The standard version of Ambien is intended to help you fall asleep. The ER version will allow you to remain asleep, or fall back to sleep after awakening in the the middle of the night.

My relative only gets 2-4 hours a night and sometimes he says he doesn't sleep at all. His doctor prescribed clonazepam for 10 years and he said he is now fucked because he can't get any sleep at all without taking a bunch of other meds.

Get the Ambien extended release meds. And do NOT turn on the light when you get up in the night. That wakes me up

OP, the app I’d recommended is The Mindfulness App, it has a blue icon of a person meditating. Try the 5 minute sessions to start, do that in the late afternoons as it will help center your busy, stressed out mind. Then repeat in the evening. Whole point of mindfulness is to help you be in the present and not concentrate on past or future. I’ve led wellness groups for people with chronic health and psychiatric conditions, many report improvement in sleep particularly those who were under great stress.

As for melatonin, do try the lowest dose, 0.5mg, in order to recalibrate the pineal gland again. You were taking too much melatonin and at dosages that would have opposite effect.

[quote]I've been upping my Melatonin to 20-25 mg a night

Holy shit. Do you mean 2.0 to 2.5? I didn't think that melatonin came in anything higher than about 3mg tablets.

Lifelong insomniac with nothing really new to say:

I have a regular nighttime routine of showering, then taking the Unisom doxycycline version in the 25mg size about 1 hour before bed every night and get myself actually into bed. At that point I start to read while taking a 2mg melatonin dissolvable tablet. Usually within 30 minutes I get drowsy, so then I turn off my Kindle and all the lights, read a little more on my phone with the blue light filter, then finally feel ready for sleep.

I also have an air filter in the room for light white noise and I use sleep sounds on my phone to drift off.

I know that in 3-4 hours I'll have my nightly need to get up so I have a plan that I stick to, which is to force myself out of bed if I'm not back asleep in 15 minutes and take another half of a Unisom. Keep in mind that Unisom sleep gels are 50mg and can't be broken, which is why I recommend the 25mg sleep tabs, it's the same medication, and even on bad nights where I have to take an extra half I get at most 37.5mg a night, less than the 50mg sleep gels.

I have been sleeping like a baby after 10 years of sleep depravation. I quit drinking, but I've done that in the past and it helped a little, but not enough. This time I quit drinking and after 3 months I still wasn't sleeping thru the night so I tried 5-HTP. It took at least 3 weeks to start making a difference and now 7 weeks in I am sleeping well and waking up feeling like I got enough sleep most nights.

Melatonin helps me fall asleep and 5-HTP seems to help keep me asleep. I hope this continues to work.

Where do you get Magnesium creme? Thanks

R46 That's funny. I just started Anna Karenina and can only get two pages per night as I drift off so quickly. Its not that I don't enjoy the book but that it is such an effective sleep aid!

To OP I found it hard at the end of my work life to keep up the sleep/work pattern required for corporate America careers. At a certain age I think one needs to follow a more natural rhythm.

Until recently I had a similar problem. I had weaned myself off of Klonopin because it wasn't really working anymore and I did not want to raise the dose. I tried various medications and melatonin and I slept but was groggy long after waking up as if I was not getting very the right kind of sleep.

So... Cannabis. I first started smoking to get to sleep. That would get me to sleep but it would not keep me asleep. I also don't like smoking and it felt like it was bad for my lungs.

I've been saved by the legalization of cannabis in a neighboring state. Now I drive 2 hours to a dispensary and buy an Indica tincture. I take that around two hours before I want to go to sleep and it has been doing the trick. If you want to try this don't get a sativa product because I tried that and it just made me super anxious. The mnemonic for the difference between Cannabis sativa and cannabis Indica is that with Indica you stay 'in da couch'.

I did try CBD oil before going to cannabis. I did not find it did anything at all.

If I'm anxious (because of life, not weed) I practice meditation techniques while trying to go to sleep. There are some good guided meditations specifically for sleep available for free on various sites and apps. I don't need the apps if I'm just trying to calm my mind for sleep, I just have to concentrate on my breath.

Everybody is it different so what worked for me may not work for you. Good luck.

Okay, I cut down from my typical 25 mg dose to 10 mg last night and only slept 4 hours. Tonight, I went down to 2.5 mg. Hopefully I didn't permanently fuck up my melatonin receptors and they will start to get used to the lower dose so I can get some sleep.

If you’re taking an OTC sleep med that contains acetaminophen, get your liver checked. This includes NyQuil, Unisom and other products. They’re not intended for regular use and can harm your liver.

The thing that helps me ensure a good night's sleep is a cooler bedroom temperature. For me it's 66 degrees, but studies indicate that the ideal temperature may range from 60 to 67 degrees.

My bedroom is warmer than 68 degrees in the summer, and I have a tendency to wake up every 1.5 or 3 hours during the summer. But now that it's very cold, the sleeping temperature at night is 66 degrees or slightly lower, and I wake up after 6 hours (and then fall back to sleep) or even sleep the whole night through (almost 8 hours.)

I've noticed this difference in sleep quality by season for years, and now I actually welcome autumn and winter because I don't wake up as much during the night. If you keep your bedroom relatively warm during the winter, it's possible you've never experienced this benefit.

From an old NYT article-

[quote]Studies have found that in general, the optimal temperature for sleep is quite cool, around 60 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. For some, temperatures that fall too far below or above this range can lead to restlessness.

[quote] Temperatures in this range, it seems, help facilitate the decrease in core body temperature that in turn initiates sleepiness. A growing number of studies are finding that temperature regulation plays a role in many cases of chronic insomnia. Researchers have shown, for example, that insomniacs tend to have a warmer core body temperature than normal sleepers just before bed, which leads to heightened arousal and a struggle to fall asleep as the body tries to reset its internal thermostat.

For more information, just google "optimal bedroom temperature for sleep."

This may not be the OP's issue, but it's worth a mention.

[quote] Insomnia — input please, DL!

Try sitting through the movie "Interstellar."

R62 this is the one I use and I chose this one because of nontoxic non-active ingredients so what you gave is the main active compound, which is magnesium. Absorbs nicely into the skin.

^^^ “what you get”, damn autocorrect Also I should add that this also doubles as magnesium supplement, as with any topical meds it’s still absorbed into the body so same as not overdoing it on melatonin.

If you're in Canada or a state where it's legal, try a CBD/THC combo pill. Puts me right out when I need it.

[quote]If you’re taking an OTC sleep med that contains acetaminophen, get your liver checked. This includes NyQuil, Unisom and other products. They’re not intended for regular use and can harm your liver.

Just stop with this overreaction. You'd have to take way more acetaminophen to cause any problems.

If you drink alcohol on a regular basis, you should be careful about acetaminophen intake.

Hun, your long rambling post put me to sleep IMMEDIATELY.

Maybe you should print it out and read it in bed, you'll be asleep in no time!

OP, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. While I am not a chronic insomniac, I do have bouts of it and it's Hell. I remember the night before my best friend's wedding I couldn't sleep. I was stressed about the wedding and I did everything to fall asleep and it didn't work. I had to go through the wedding day like a zombie.

The panic builds are you are not able to fall asleep. And, as 4:30 a.m. approaches, you dread the coming day. Should I call in sick or tough it out? Will I sleep tomorrow night? How can you even relax at that point? Sometimes I try to clear my mind. Easier said than done.

But some great advice here. I think working out regularly does help.

I agree about having a cooler room. Whenever my room is too hot (unfortunately I cannot control my heat in my apartment in the winter), I have difficulty sleeping.

I also like white noise. I sleep with a fan turned on (even in winter). The only issue is I can never sleep with pure silence. I need the white noise.

I'd recommend going on a trip by yourself and see how your sleep compares to your everyday life. Maybe it's your mattress? Maybe there is underlying stress that you don't realize. Maybe being away from everything may help clear your mind.

The sad thing about insomnia is that, like mental illness, many people don't understand it. And they don't understand the damaging effects it can have on one's life.

Best of luck to you. Please keep us updated.

Trazodone is the answer, OP. I used to be a terrible insomniac: I could fall asleep but would wake up after 3-4 hrs and couldn't go back to sleep. I've used trazodone now for 20 years and it changed my life. GET IT!

OP, have you tried ASMR videos? Stick to Fred's older videos, he looks like a greasy turd these days.

I have the world's most peculiar sleep behaviors. I sleep with 4 very thin pillows. Two for under my neck, one for over my forehead or ears, and one between between my knees. I also have a very soft black cotton t-shirt, which I use instead of a sleep mask. I sleep on my side, never on my back, and probably switch from side to side about 3-4 times over the course of the night. I fall asleep very quickly unless I'm going through a very stressful or emotional period in my life. I must have absolute silence to sleep, and absolute darkness, with blackout curtains. . A fan sounds like an airplane engine to me. At least I thought it was the world's most peculiar sleep behavior. Then I was listening to Teri Gross Fresh Air on public radio one day, when she was interviewing one of the world's foremost sleep researchers at Stanford. She asked the researcher how she herself slept. The researcher said that she needed absolute silence and blackness to sleep, turned or covered all light emitting appliances (clocks, vcrs, etc), had blackout curtains, and used a black cloth over her eyes and something over her ears. My dream sleep partner!!!!

The peculiarity of her sleep behavior startled Teri Gross, who asked her why. She said that many people can see light through their eyelids and that research has shown that that itself is very damaging to proper sleep. (One reason why night-lights are now discouraged for small children). Black cloth over eyes she likened to a bird cage - that birds could only sleep restfully if cocooned under a black cloth in their cages.

Thank you so much, r27. I ordered the cream

OP, I'm going to tell you what helped me. About three years ago, I went through a terrible three months wherein four of my relatives were in the hospital (dying, becoming an altzheimer's vegetable, strokes, kidney disease complications, etc). I was a total wreck and was only sleeping about four hours per night, and could not go back to sleep. That kind of insomnia is the worst thing in the world.

So here's what helped--

1. No more caffeine. Switch to decaf.

2. Magnesium 400mg with a little (25mg) zinc

3. Adrenal herbs (called "adrenal jumpstart" made by gaia

4. Vitamin D

5. A bit of melatonin (a third of a pill)

After one day, I noticed I was feeling a little better, but I thought it was the placebo effect. After two days, I slept an entire night. I eventually stopped taking the adrenal herbs after three months, but every time I feel stressed or my sleeping gets out of whack, I get back on them.

Good luck

[quote]Unisom doxycycline version

Jesus, I meant the [bold] doxylamine succinate [/bold] version, that's what I get for posting before bed after I've taken it!

Any recommendations for 5-htp ? What brand, what dose ?

Teaspoon of canna butter in hot cocoa made with milk. I call it the "Good Night, Sweet Prince", because the angels seem to sing you to your rest.

r82 start at 25 or 50mg (25 if you tend to be sensitive to meds, 50 if not), make sure they're enteric coated, I only know Canadian brands so if you're in Canada, Natural Factors or SISU.

Trazadone doesn't work for me.

Trazadone gave me priapism. I was near getting to the danger time, and was considering going to Emergency. Thankfully it began to go down. I took ibuprofen, not sure if that's what helped or not. I did sleep well after all this, for almost ten hours.

Too scared to try it again, though my Doc said it was a very rare side effect. The poster upthread warning against paracetamol (Tylenol, Acetaminophen) every night is wise. If you are not in pain, you should select a sleep aid by itself. The dose isn't so much the concern, it's the taking it each and everyday which is the problem. You're needlessly taxing your liver by doing this.

Yeah Traz gave me scary heart palpitations. Terrifying if you don't know what's happening. Always be careful with meds and always start at the lowest reasonable dose and titrate up.

I find the dosing part very interesting. And what is can be used for.

R80, when/what time of day did you take the magnesium, adrenal herbs, Vitamin D and magnesium? At bedtime? All at once? And what type of dosage? Thank you so much for the input!

R88, You’re not kidding. It’s almost like a wonder drug. I’ve also seen it recommended for GERD/acid reflux!

Very interesting. I might have to try it again, but when I had tried it originally, it made me groggy in the morning, so it was pointless.

I know parents who use the Zarbee’s for their kids. Maybe I’ll try that.

The adrenal caps you take in the morning when you get up. For the Adrenal Jumpstart, it's two caps in the morning.

The rest, you can take whenever you like. I try to take the magnesium, D, et cetera right before bedtime. (The magnesium 400mg of magnesium citrate, 25 of zinc, D 1000, a third of a melatonin.) Magnesium with zinc has some sort of synergy that helps you fall asleep.

PLEASE research the best type of magnesium for you. Magnesium oxide is pure laxative. (Don't do it!) I use the Magensium Citrate, but I've heard the tauride (?) is also good--though difficult to find.

100mg Trazodone. 20mg Zolpidem.

Trazadone just doesn't work for me. I wish it did.

Has anyone tried Hemp oil supplements? I just ordered some after hearing about them from a friend

Marajuana gummies 1/2 30 minutes before bed.

I have done Hemp and found it useless.

A friend hasn't been able to sleep, she just found out she has MS. Her doctor prescribed a benzo for her anxiety.

Does CBD or weed edibles work?

Learn how to meditate. There are many ways of doing it, find one that works for you. And it works when you are able to turn your mind off: To think of nothing and only to feel sense (warmth, cold, tickle etc).

Have been practicing meditation for years but still doesn’t completely shut down brain enough to sleep. Have studied many different methods and approaches - but for severe insomnia, it is not a cure just a somewhat helpful aid.

I feel really sorry for people with chronic insomnia, because whenever I have insomnia, it's awful. And the thought of having it multiple nights in a row is incredibly depressing to me.

I do know doctors seem to agree on a couple of things--if you have it, then:

*No eating after 7pm

*No drinks after 7pm

*No "screens" at bedtime (no looking at the computer or watching TV)

*Reading before bed can often help because it makes your mind deal with things other than your problems

What helps me is cannabis--I live in a state where it is legal, and I have an edible (a caramel) with 2:1 CBD to THC half an hour before bed, and it helps me enormously.

is Cannabis legal in Europe yet? They are always so advanced with these things...

OP, I'm going to start injecting you with small amounts of Lyme disease.

[quote] Does CBD or weed edibles work?

The one weed edible I tried worked. I'd hoped for a mild buzz, but it did take the edge off my sciatica and I went to bed two hours before schedule.

R101 Ooh, can I have a Lyme Rickey Ricardo?

If you don't want to give up your TV and computer time at night, try blue-light-blocking glasses from a place called Cocoons. If you wear prescription glasses, they also sell fitovers. I love mine.

I also second the recommendation for an indica tincture, with the caveat that cannabis consumed orally does take up to two hours to reach the full effect, so you need to take it well before bedtime. It will keep you sedated for up to six hours, though. That's much longer than the effects you get from smoking or vaping.

I wish things were more regulated. Buying online looks like a nightmare, it seems you have no idea what you are actually getting

I found that taking a very low dose of remeron (anti depressant) worked really well for a few weeks but then became ineffective. Now I just do a hard workout at lunchtime and that helps a lot.

Does CBD oil help? Or CBD in anything help this problem?

OP, if you're being serious, please take this advice. Something may bothering you about which you may be unaware. IIRC, basically, the human mind has two parts: the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Something "locked" in your subconscious mind may be bothering you. Ambien and drugs like it are for very short-term use only and are dangerous!

If you don't want a psychiatric consultation in your medical records, pay cash and see a psychiatrist off-the-record. Be 100% honest and the psychiatrist will eventually get to what's really bothering you. You'll either live with insomnia and try all the medications in the world or a psych doc will really solve the problem. Please don't forget to see your internist to have a complete physical with labs to fully eliminate all potential physiological causes. Also, please get yourself a book on using Herbs/Plants for natural medications. Valerian Root is a great natural tranquilizer/sleeping medication. So is Kava Kava, but many states have banned it.

Good luck and happy holidays from a former chronic insomnia sufferer.

OP, Please stop taking Tylenol PM and all OTC medications other than herbal remedies! Damn, you're having rebound insomnia and side effects!

I've been taking Ambien for the last 25 years, but I ran out last week!

The good news is I've gone cold turkey and had no bad side effects, no withdrawal, no nothing and I'm forced to sleep without anything. The only bad thing to happen is my brain is very foggy in the daytime. L have to slow down...but all is fine. All these scary stories about stopping does not always happen to everyone. I did clear all I could off my schedule and go to bed with 8 hours allowed instead of 6, but that too is not a big deal. Just the brain fog....

R110, careful careful. I had withdrawal sneak up on me 3 weeks later and when it hit was vicious. Hope you have some valium on hand to handle the worst of the symptoms. Then taper off the valium.

R111, you're partially correct. R110's story doesn't compute. Ambien was FDA-approved in December, 1992. Much time is often required after approval for manufacturing to gear up and introduce a drug to market. A school child can do simple math. Ambien & drugs like it are dangerous. An FDA black-box warning was added they're for very short-term use only. Ambien's documented side effects include retrograde amnesia. R110, hope you're alright and get yourself well!

R112 R110 may be correct. There are many of us who have long-term use cases for Ambien and other hypnotics. I've been using these since around 2000 myself.

I’ve used Ambien for 15 years. But only 2-3x week. I’ve gone without for up to 2 weeks without issues. I think a lot of these horror stories relate to daily use of high dosages. Neither Ambien or Xanax have ever caused withdrawal symptoms for me.

R113, R114, I'm not judging, but you just think that. I'm having difficulty there are negligent doctors who'll write for Ambien that long despite the FDA black-box warning! I think the limit is 3 weeks. Ambien became available in 1993, so that's less than 26 years. Can't believe any doctor would prescribe any patient that long. The result is a scrambled-egg brain, just like weed. When my state passed medical marijuana, my neurologist put up a giant poster with side effects and I was shocked. Pot heads who think it's OK are in for a rude awakening.. A Boomer on here said indiscriminate RX drug use is the "only healthcare option". SMH

110 here. I'm hoping nothing creeps up on me later,but so far I only have trouble with brain fog. All I can manage to do when I wake up is sit and stare off into space. It feels like my brain didn't get good sleep. Benzodiazepines, however, is another story...

Prior to ambien I was given 10mgs. of restoril and stopping that cold turkey can wind you up in the hospital with panic attacks which is when I was diagnosed with Panic Disorder. That was 3 months of pure hell that I do not want to repeat. I always feel like if I have good sleep, I can function at 100%. I'm on Paxil for the Panic/anxiety.

R116 I empathize for you. Benzo withdrawal is probably Hell. I'm truly sorry you've been victim of the USA"s medical system. I'll give an example of a law in my state. Physicians are only required to do two things: Examine a patient and write a prescription. A treating physician does not have to provide a note/excuse for work or school, does not have to give a referral to a special, etc., and that's the law!

I'll try to send positive thoughts your way. Please get a reputable book on Herbal medicine. Some of it worked for me, but use Chinese and Indian methods with great caution! My insomnia was related to a physiological problem, hence my recommendations above. Good luck and peace!

R115

this may or may not work but it can't hurt to try. Wrap a bar of lavender soap in a small piece of fabric and put it under your pillow. It can be pretty potent so you may want to remove it from the box and let it sit out for a few days first. I use it in the center of my bed to keep from getting leg and back spasms/cramps and it is actually working.

R115 113 here. My prescription is through one of the best neurologists in the country. What you don’t know is there are many people with an organic basis for insomnia. I have a nice scar on my brain from an accident. That damage inhibits my body from producing the hormones that regulate sleep.

I’m tested annually for brain function and after 30 years, I have some recovery that has reduced my reliance on seizure control drugs. It’s not the most common reason for long term use, but the consequence of insomnia is seizures and debilitating (as in, hospitalization required) migraines.

R119, ouch, I'm familiar with neurologists and migraines. Please follow your doctors' orders. Someone I know tried melatonin, which didn't work. I never did. If you haven't seen an endocrinologist and sleep specialist and have the resources, those are my recommendations. I know what it's like when a person can't relax and rest. I genuinely hope that you can. Best wishes.

R117

Sometimes if you take too much melatonin, it can have the opposite effect. Most pills that are sold are 3mg--far too much! Take no more than a third!

R120 It gets better, slowly. But thank you. I see coronary specialist, endocrinologist, neurologist. That sounds like whining, but in reality it's why I'm able to continue working. I prefer to think of myself as a classic car: twice the style, but twice the maintenance of a show room new model.

Edibles can work, but they're hella expensive compared to using a plain old indica cannabis tincture. The tinctures are flavored but I still find they taste pretty bad, but you keep it under your tongue for only 90 seconds, and then you can wash it down with water or eat something to get rid of the taste. They work fastest if you take them on an empty stomach - for me, it takes about 40 minutes to 1.5 hours until onset. If I snack before taking it, it's going to be 1.5 to 3 hours to hit, so I try to keep to a routine.

I did not find plain CBD at all helpful. I only use the marijuana tincture at night and I rarely smoke weed at all. What adverse effects were on the poster in the doctors office R115 ? Were many of them lung-related? If so, would only apply to those who smoke rather than take edibles or tinctures.

Pretty much every drug has some side effects and adverse effects. I used to take Benzos for sleep. Long-term use of them is linked to dementia. Ambien has a long list of side effects as well. You have to choose your poison, I guess. Euphoria is considered a side effect for some drugs, but, it's kind of a good one if you ask me....

10mg Hydrocodone, 2mg Xanax, 2 bottles of red, and a blunt will work wonders

Where cn you buy the tinctures, r123? Thanks

I never had any problem going off of Ambien, Unisom, and Xanax all helped me sleep, but my doctor warned me about the potential for dementia and it's just not worth it.

Now I keep a small vaporizer by my bed and just take a hit of weed before going to bed or when I wake up. It's a Godsend.

"Where cn you buy the tinctures, [R123]?"

If you're in or near a state where recreational use is legal, dispensaries will have tinctures. I only know about Massachusetts, and virtually every dispensary has tinctures available. They usually have 4 kinds: Indica, Sativa, 1:1, and CBD-only. I tried the 1:1 and it seemed very similar in effect to the Indica tincture.

The cannabis dispensaries in Massachusetts have their own 'brands' and strains that are produced by their own growing facilities. I think that may be part of the Mass. law and perhaps it's different in Colorado or Cali. There are good review sites on the web that cover dispensaries and their products.

R127, I just posted on another thread that under Federal law and the US Controlled Substances Act, marijuana is illegal and cannabis is C-1. CBD oil is safe. I have no clue if it's effective for insomnia. My state has medical marijuana, but it's still illegal with the Feds. They can take away homes and other stuff. If a person has chronic insomnia, there's a problem that can't be self-treated. If you can't or don't want to see a doctor, please try obtaining good books on Aromatherapy and Herbology. Just trying to be helpful from self-experience. I no longer take medication for insomnia.

Do not take Tylenol PM to fall asleep! It contains an antihistamine and they are correlated with dementia. Smoke some pot (not CBD) and take some melatonin and magnesium.

Do something that makes you mentally tired like reading, or a difficult crossword puzzle.

I'm on 300mg of trazodone and 300mg of quetiapine. I sometimes go to bed late and sleep throughout the day. Having depression, anemia and hypothyroidism doesn't help. They all keep me under much longer than I want to be. I recently got Invisalign which is making it even more difficult for me to get to bed earlier. Throughout my life I've alternated between insomnia and hypersomnia.

Yep, another one here for exercise. It dose not have to be in the morning like others said, just sometime during the day you need to get your blood going. You dont even have to do that much. A brisk walk for 20 minutes mid day would do wonders. You do not need to feel tired afterwards that's not the goal anyway. What it does is help reset your biological clock so to speak by giving your body a burst of oxygen you wont get just puttering around the house or sitting at a computer all day.

My husband and I make our own tinctures and edibles using the Magical Butter machine. There are YouTube videos on how to do it. You just bake ( decarboxylate) the cannabis in the oven first. It’s super easy to do.

I had insomnia for about a decade. A few years ago, I first tried meditation with a very simple app that just had me focus on my breath for starting with a minute. I worked up to five then ten minutes. The calming effects were great. I ventured into guided meditations. I experimented with both iPad and Android apps looking for the voice that soothed me. Right now, the charm is an Android app called "Let's Meditate". The guided meditation called "Restful Sleep" starts off with going through a short blinking session that does the trick for me. Sometimes, I don't make it to the number one. This is outstanding because insomnia used to be a big problem for me all the time. If the blinky session does not work right away, the voice then tells me to focus on the feeling at the top of my head, my ears, etc. For me, that internal focus puts me out. I have purchased guided meditation audiobooks too but I find that I have to get new ones every so often. I have been using the blinky one for a few straight months every night and I go to sleep every night. I have not heard enough of it to be tired of it. One of the tricks to it is to really stretch your body out like you are so tired before you begin the meditation. I also start blinking as soon as the voice starts. If you pretend that you are really trying hard to look at the same spot in between blinks, it helps the process.

I also sleep in a cold room, have a weighted blanket and will have my iPad playing relaxing sounds throughout the meditation and after the mediation is over while I am sleeping. This is a major difference from two years ago. Also, I found that drinking plenty of water during the day stops me from waking up and having to use the bathroom. Exercise is important as well.

r128 while it is still a federal crime, I have heard of no one being busted for having small amounts (not dealer quantities) of cannabis at home in a state where it's legal. Cannabis is very widely used, at least in the Northeast, in both the states where it's rlegal for recreational use and those where it is not.

I was surprised at last year's holiday party, when my 70-ish neighbors offered me a joint. They're not whatI would call bohemian now but they are from the generation that were around during the 60s.

If the feds start cracking down they're going to be arresting people's grandparents. I don't think they want to kick that particular hornet's nest.

[quote]My husband and I make our own tinctures and edibles using the Magical Butter machine.

Translation = Pot Heads

Honestly, not looking at the clock was enough to cure my mild insomnia. OP, you say you only look at the clock when you know you'll be up, but try not looking no matter what or how long it's been.

Another thing: I'm neither a doctor nor a therapist, but I wonder, after a night of little to no sleep, it's better to *not* take the day off but to go into work as usual (provided that you can transport yourself safely in your drowsy state). If, in bed, you tell yourself "I won't be able to function if I can't sleep!" then you could become too anxious to sleep. But think about all the parents of newborns, who are awaken by their babies throughout the night, yet soldier on in the daytime. If you can prove to yourself that you can indeed function after a crappy night (with the help of some coffee, perhaps), it might put the breaks on your fears.

R135, you have a point, but the Feds are pursuing MJ merchants, their business managers/lawyers and their bankers; they always pursue the money first. Then they pursue the sellers and users. All you have to ask is, "Who is our President and his benefactors?" We have to wait for the current House bill to see if it passes and goes to the Senate. I bet it dies there. If it doesn't, Trump will veto it. Ultimately, the question will arrive at the Supreme Court because so many states have passed legal MJ. Until then, the bottom line is all cannabis is illegal/C-1. Anyone who uses MJ is taking a risk because the Feds can legally swipe anyone's home/property and Social Security benefits if convicted in federal court.

What’s wrong with sleeping on your stomach? I’ve done since childhood too and I’m a sleepy head.

R137, good point, but please stay away from coffee. The most abused substance in the USA is caffeine. Any caffeine intake even in the AM can cause insomnia. I was on the treadmill you mentioned for years, up at 6am for my corporate career, then university courses at night and on the weekends. I paid the price. Although a tennis fanatic and absolutely exhausted, I still couldn't sleep. One cause was unresolved trauma bothering my subconscious mind, to which I was unaware. After I got that treated and cleared, and stayed away from nasty, evil people, I was much improved and slept better!

R139, nothing wrong with sleeping in any position that's best for you if you have don't have a physical problem. However, for anyone who has acid reflux, an ulcer, etc., the best sleeping position is on the left side in the fetal position.

Getting rid of my high stress, 70 hour week job cured my insomnia. It was a horrible life. Made me realize I don’t love money that much. A good nights sleep is worth more than thousands of dollars.

Bump.

R138 One of the reasons Obamacare wasn't completely repealed is that the GOP knew that parts of it were very popular. And legalized cannabis is now VERY popular.

You could be right, but I'm not overly worried. I'm not planning to go smoke a joint on the Federal courthouse steps, either.

on another subject, can r133 tell me whether there's a way to make edibles without using butter or coconut oil?

After 50 you only get 5 hours if you're lucky. Deal with it.

The lowest dose of Seroquel. Changed me sleep life.