Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Sociopaths, Narcissist, the cluster Bs: Do you have have tips to help with these...

Type of very disturbed people?

Tips, treatment, warnings, red flags and survival/success stories.

by Anonymousreply 399May 13, 2020 3:27 PM

Run like hell.

by Anonymousreply 1November 6, 2019 11:44 PM

R1 If you are dealing with a true, malignant narcissist, understand that they are operating from and with a completely different standard to what non-disordered people experience and live by. They will not be swayed by appeals to emotion, fitness, equity, doing the right thing, being a good person, having morals, being counted on, being responsible...or any other thing the rest of us respond to. You are (And everyone else) are not really a whole human to them; you and everyone else is a source of "narcissistic supply," which is "whatever makes them feel adored, exalted, superior, etc. They are driven by a simultaneous belief in their own superiority and a knowing, gnawing fear of the truth that they are missing a soul. They will not likely sincerely seek help or benefit from it. They are likely fucking whatever moves and definitely view people as exploitable resources.

If you must be in contact, get grip on your own emotions a ND do not let yours be triggered - not by lust, anger, fear, desire, worry, concern for them, hope that there are magic words to make them human - nothing. Expect them to lie about both essential and completely trivial matters, often without even any reason for it or benefit yo themselves ft it. Some don't even register anymore that they are lying. And you may want to think they are just absent- minded or careless or in a a it, but although they may be those things, they are still lying as bd will use other people's charitable views of them as another means to get over. If you are romantically involved with them, they are most certainly I unfaithful, and will try to lie out of it whenever caught. But despite the distress or crocodile tears you might see, they are secretly amused and they feed just as well Off negative emotion as positive. It will never be about you; it us only and always about them.

All that is not me being dramatic. They truly are organized in their brains very differently tgn everyone else.

by Anonymousreply 2November 6, 2019 11:48 PM

They are poison, and there are no success stories. Unless you had one "disappeared", then you won, but there is no cure.

You want distance, and if they must enter your circle on occasion, do not give them any more than the most formal of formalities.

by Anonymousreply 3November 6, 2019 11:54 PM

My advice is the same as r1's. Much of the misery in my life has come from dating or befriending Cluster Bs. They rarely even [italic]want[/italic] to change, and most cannot even if they wanted to do so, so your best advice is to run like hell away from them--especially BPDs.

by Anonymousreply 4November 7, 2019 12:10 AM

Confirming R2 and R4 comments (I'm R3). I've had some limited success in getting whst I needed from one by not letting my buttons feel pushed (@grey rock" is a common term), exploiting the few things that the person might care about (eg., reputation with folks of a certain desirable status - when I've been able to prove disapproval by one of them of the narcs behavior, narc immediately scrambled to fix it in order to fix perception by desirables). Or sometimes with strategic ego strokes or dummy-proofing/doing their work for them, or explaining indirectly how this is going to make them look so good to the people whose opinions evidently matter (not family, children, SOs, etc). But as I said, limited success. And it is time-consuming, requires perfect planning and delivery, and never letting them perceive that they're following breadcrumbs you put down. It's not for the faint of heart.

by Anonymousreply 5November 7, 2019 12:11 AM

Shoot, I mean I'm r2 and agree with 1 and 3 (and now 4) 🙄....

by Anonymousreply 6November 7, 2019 12:12 AM

r2 is correct in every detail, down to the last period. I was involved with one who fit those exact classic patterns in every way. I wasted a lot of time playing emotional head games with him and I always won those skirmishes but I lost in the long run by wasting my best years under his magic spell that practically drove me over the edge.

by Anonymousreply 7November 7, 2019 12:18 AM

Tip 1: Learn to tell the difference between Fascinating and Fucked Up. The sooner you learn this, the fewer times you'll fall for a Cluster B.

Tip 2: Instead of putting time and effort into trying to understand them, put it into trying to avoid them.

by Anonymousreply 8November 7, 2019 12:21 AM

There's one of these cunts at work. A shrieking harpy who dresses like a hooker and fucks any thing that moves.

She insists that our team can't survive without her but the truth is, most of us are going to jump for joy when this dumb cunt transfers out on Friday.

I honestly don't know how some of you could survive being around one of these people. They are fucking exhausting and I only deal with this bitch when I have to.

Seriously, if you had a parent or sibling with ND, you are one tough cookie to have survived.

by Anonymousreply 9November 7, 2019 12:55 AM

WHY IS DL SO FUCKING OBSESSED WITH THESE PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS

AND I MEAN FUCKING OBSESSED, OP

YOU ARE ON EVERY THREAD DIAGNOSING THIS CELEB AND THAT ROYAL WITH CLUSTER FUCKING B

I CAN ONLY ASSUME YOU YOURSELF HAVE ALL THESE DISORDERS FUGLICIA

by Anonymousreply 10November 7, 2019 1:03 AM

I think it's because there are a lot of these people, and we want strategies, tips, to be able to deal with them better. Also, I think 'allcaps' you could have calm yourself down and figure this out, right? hopefully?

by Anonymousreply 11November 7, 2019 1:40 AM

OP, another diagnosis is monomania and you have it hoe.

by Anonymousreply 12November 7, 2019 2:38 AM

[R12], oh no

by Anonymousreply 13November 7, 2019 2:46 AM
Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14November 7, 2019 3:08 AM

It’s very easy to take down a narcissist. You have to continuously, relentlessly campaign against them. Trash them non stop, gaslight, gray rock and never ever get caught. It’s hard to do, and you need solid allies to do it but it can be done. Look at the Dump family. It’s now at a tipping point where everything that comes out of their mouths is treated like a joke. They will have some unwavering allies, but they’re a write off. If it’s a boss at work, you probably won’t win and just need to get away from them.

by Anonymousreply 15November 7, 2019 3:16 AM

i really want more tips. I hope this thread stays active.

by Anonymousreply 16November 7, 2019 3:28 AM

Be alert, the psychopath I met was quick and thick with the compliments. There was also a lack of respect for boundaries.

r10, it is because these people cause so much damage to the rest of us. Psychopaths are truly evil.

by Anonymousreply 17November 7, 2019 5:02 AM

sociopaths violate your boundaries quickly.

One Tip: Do not give out personal and financial information to them.

Do not give out other people's information to people. One thing they will try to do is get into your personal office, master bedroom etc to get sensitive information.

by Anonymousreply 18November 7, 2019 5:28 AM

They speak badly, poorly about your own children. Or their own children. They will push you into speaking poorly (gossipy at first) about your own children. This is a red flag warning about a very dangerous sociopath. Most likely, they are zoning in on getting money, and even committing financial crimes. Though, they will also enjoy destroying families and all the mind games they play to achieve this too.

by Anonymousreply 19November 7, 2019 5:36 AM

Dr. Les Carter has a "Surviving Narcissism" channel =

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 20November 7, 2019 5:48 AM

The woman who appears on his channel is a Texas Christian

but doesn't seem to be of the anti-gay mentality =

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 21November 7, 2019 5:51 AM

Dr. Carter has several video lists based on different types.

7 types of narcissists =

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 22November 7, 2019 5:59 AM

Her name is Laura Charanza.

"What loving a narcissist costs you"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 23November 7, 2019 6:01 AM

Narcissism in 2 words - "Without regard".

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 24November 7, 2019 6:05 AM

make sure all your children are signed on with the family lawyer firm, not just one children. Even a disabled or minor child has to be there. If not, they are sociopaths. The Spouses of your children should be left out.

If you are recommend to do this (rewrite the will/trust, leave children out of lawyer meetings, add in your children's spouses, etc) report the lawyer and get a new one ASTAT.

These are the kinds of things the sociopaths and sociopathic scum lawyer try to do.

by Anonymousreply 25November 7, 2019 6:15 AM

I dealt with a classic narc. Even though this vile person is out of my life (hopefully forever), I shudder when I think of her. And, when you move on, its sad to see how the narc's crazy behavior patterns continue.

by Anonymousreply 26November 7, 2019 8:46 AM

R26 again. When I think about it, getting the narcissist out of your life is a tough process. I found it sickening and painful. Did anyone go through this and find an easy way to get one out of your life?

by Anonymousreply 27November 7, 2019 8:53 AM

Sometimes they are creepy, competitive soul suckers, and not necessarily after your money.

Stay aware of, in tune with and in charge of your boundaries. Boundaries: emotional, financial, physical. And your time. Their time is not more important than your time.

by Anonymousreply 28November 7, 2019 8:57 AM

R27 I managed to ditch my narc even though I was in love with him (obsessed, tbh). I blocked him on all social media, phone, messaging. If he surfaced somewhere else I’d block him there.

That was two years ago - I see him from time to time but now I feel nothing. He’s pretty pathetic, really.

Of course he had since moved on to a new mark and is busy triangulating and manipulating and all the usual NPD garbage.

But I’m free.

by Anonymousreply 29November 7, 2019 8:59 AM

A couple of us had to have legal letters sent to our narc. Harassing drunken texts, phone calls. Also, this narc made up outrageous lies. Never forget that they project their own negative characteristics onto others. Narcs belong in a facility.

by Anonymousreply 30November 7, 2019 9:20 AM

R8’s “learn to tell the difference between Fascinating and Fucked Up” is excellent.

At this late stage in my life, I can now recognize this. My psyche has a certain set of responses to these people when I meet them. Feeling fascinated or seduced by them, wanting to figure them out... it’s a red flag that I no longer ignore.

by Anonymousreply 31November 7, 2019 12:36 PM

My mother is a narcissist. I got tired just reading this thread. I don't have it in me to cut her off entirely, but I refuse to share "management" tips in this thread because it feels like instructing others in the art of self-harm.

Ok, I'll share the two questions my therapist always asks when frustrating interactions with mom come up: what did you want to get out of this interaction? Did it work?

by Anonymousreply 32November 7, 2019 1:12 PM

Me, too R29. There are times when I miss him so much and just want to get together one more time, but then I remind myself of the turmoil and jealousy he put me though for his own amusement and how I would blame myself for not being good enough. No amount of simulated charm is worth it going through that again.

by Anonymousreply 33November 7, 2019 1:48 PM

I awoke to the glaring fact that I have been interacting with a narcissist since February. Casually social, but every time it ended with fucking major drama on his part that somehow drew me in, although I had nothing at all to do with it. It hit yesterday when we agreed to get together. He texted me and I explained I'd been up all night with a stomach bug [true]. "That doesn't surprise me. I hope you "feel better soon."" This after not showing up a couple of weeks ago, texting with a lame excuse the next day, and ghosting me when I saw him on a site we're both members of and I said hello.

It's crappy to realize it, but so empowering to understand it. And to cut off all contact from now on. I daren't confront him with anything that might put him in a bad light because he knows psycho the way a snake knows how to move on its belly. This thread has helped a great deal. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 34November 7, 2019 3:21 PM

R34, you have to block like your life depends on it right now. Take the pain upfront, discard and move on. These narcs have to be starved, its the only way. The more narcs get you in their webs, the worse it gets. Run! You'll be aces when you get away from him her.

by Anonymousreply 35November 7, 2019 3:55 PM

^^^^^^Meant him/her. And remember, narcissists have no empathy, no moral compass. I had a divorce that was a pleasant experience compared to getting away from this narcissistic freak. And this was a friend we helped out, not a romantic relationship. But hey, a narcissist is a narcissist. Equal opportunity soul suckers.

by Anonymousreply 36November 7, 2019 4:02 PM

[quote] And remember, narcissists have no empathy, no moral compass.

No, [italic]sociopaths[/italic] have no empathy or moral compass. You're getting them confused.

by Anonymousreply 37November 7, 2019 4:07 PM

People with borderline personality disorder will manipulate you into feeling like you’ve hurt them and then get mad when you apologize and try to make it right.

by Anonymousreply 38November 7, 2019 4:16 PM

Twice I have dealt with sociopaths. I ended up reading a very good book on the subject. Sadly, I dealt with these people in the span of one year, which forced me to look at myself and make some drastic life changes. One was diagnosed as a sociopath by a psychiatrist (so she said) and one took the DSM Sociopath Test and scored very high.

Sociopath #1 I dated. He started out as very sweet, charming, fed me lovely compliments. Seemed so caring and kind. I caught him in little lies but ignored it. He eventually disclosed some disturbing details from his past, which he felt no guilt at all for. He was honest about not feeling much empathy for others and he said he felt strange, for example, at funerals or other emotional instances, because he could not muster up any emotion. He often had a 'dead' look in his eyes that I've never seen before. Our relationship ended when he became abusive and I managed to leave. Not before he said horrible things to me. I am pretty sure he was unfaithful as well but constantly accused me of cheating.

Sociopath #2 was a friend/coworker. Same thing, she started out as charming, fun, exciting and I thought she was wonderful. One day she disclosed to me that she was diagnosed as a sociopath but I thought nothing of it. Then her true colours started to show. She would berate her partner in front of me, trash talk her friends, complain very rudely about coworkers for trivial things. She would say she wished certain coworkers of ours were dead. Oh, and she was a teacher! Then she began drinking a lot and acting out until she was arrested for domestic violence. She managed to keep her job. She is an attractive young woman who can turn on the charm and waterworks very quickly. I cut her out of my life and didn't look back.

Do NOT keep sociopaths in your life. You will know a sociopath once you're already attached to them because many are very good at appearing 'normal', even kind. However once you get close enough for them to let their guards down, they'll let slip odd things that will make you question them. It will become apparent that they do not feel bad for others and can not see others perspectives.

They may treat others horribly just for fun. They don't care when their victims are hurt, in fact, they usually feel NOTHING.

They may seem very interested in you and your life but they will definitely use it against you once you leave them or do not serve their purpose. They're very depressing people to be around and suck your energy out from you. It's always take, take, take with them and they resent having to give you anything or help you.

by Anonymousreply 39November 7, 2019 4:23 PM

All this is so true. You often don't realize what this person is until it's too late. They suck you in and make you feel as though you are the most special person in the world. At first the attention is flattering, then it gets overwhelming, then exhausting, then downright scary. Every time you try to pull away, they know exactly how to drag you back into their web. They get off on seeing you weak and making you jealous. And then, they lose interest and move on to someone else, leaving you to wonder what you did to make them leave you without so much as a goodbye. I was devastated when that happened to me, I was only thinking about how good he had made me feel. Then as I thought more about our "relationship", the things he said, the promises he made and broke, how he needed constant admiration and how he wanted his enemies to be my enemies, too, I was horrified that the red flags were all there, but I didn't want to see them. I started educating myself about this type of person. So, as unpleasant as it was, it turned out to be quite a learning experience and I know that it was him, not me.

by Anonymousreply 40November 7, 2019 5:12 PM

I've heard that there are credible, demonstrably effective tips for manipulating these sick freaks, which is something people here have alluded to. I didn't try that when I worked for one of these walking trainwrecks, but I wish I had. To the extent that it's possible, get away from these people. It's a non-stop damage-limitation battle and it can take the sane person's mind to some dark, fucked up places..

by Anonymousreply 41November 7, 2019 5:53 PM

Speaking of which, the 45 year old dwarf from the Ukraine is on Dr. Phil is on right now. I hate Dr. Phil, but I had to watch this trainwreck. The dwarf is 40 if she’s a day and clearly lying imho.

by Anonymousreply 42November 7, 2019 6:18 PM

R37, narcissists are typically considered to be sociopath. But whether or not you buy that, a hallmark if a narcissist is definitely the lack of empathy bc they don't see other people as truly human.

R31, I too have had that "oh, what a fascinating person/I just lOve to sort people out, figure them out, understand what makes them tick" thing. What I missed was the "but only if you're not vested in them or emotionally attached" corollary that is necessary for dealing with people with personality disorders. I've been empathetic and non-judgmental to a fault, believing for a long time that I'd have to sacrifice my general optimism about humanity if I looked at difficult people with a wry or dry or skeptical eye. Spoiler alert: I was wrong!

by Anonymousreply 43November 7, 2019 6:24 PM

'It’s very easy to take down a narcissist. You have to continuously, relentlessly campaign against them. '

And you think you're not a sociopath?

by Anonymousreply 44November 7, 2019 7:56 PM

I would never recommend trying to beat a narcissist at their own game, no matter how seemingly fool-proof the plan. It's like the aphorism about wrestling with a pig; destruction is their way of life and their speciality. Just be happy if you get away relatively unscathed.

by Anonymousreply 45November 7, 2019 8:10 PM

'When I think about it, getting the narcissist out of your life is a tough process. I found it sickening and painful. Did anyone go through this and find an easy way to get one out of your life?'

Yup, I have f and fed your thread to hell and back. Hopefully Muriel will delete you soon.

by Anonymousreply 46November 7, 2019 8:13 PM

You can never beat someone with BPD at their own game. Many therapists and psychologists/psychiatrists refuse to work with them because they're more trouble than they're worth, and involve everyone in their psychodramas.

by Anonymousreply 47November 7, 2019 9:03 PM

There is no way to get the better of a narcissist. They will lie, cheat and steal. You can’t leave your vital information out around them because they will find it and use it. Or your meds, or your valuables. If they see anything they want or can use, they will help themselves.

They cannot feel anything for other people. I know one who has told me repeatedly that they are very angry that their kids come to them with their problems, because they don’t want to be bothered. They scream at them for calling while being upset and crying.

All the ones I met dated married people and feel very clever that they are “better” than the person’s spouse and are trying to break up their relationship. They stalk their lover’s partner and will call them or their kids or tail their car because they love freaking people out. It makes them feel superior to be dating a married person. They are “winning.”

My advice is, get away from them. If it’s a job, get another one or transfer out of their department. They can’t change. And they can obsess about people they don’t like and go after you.

Stay off their radar if you can. Keep to yourself if there’s nothing else you can do. Don’t tell them anything, they will use it against you. I agree with the poster up thread who says they suck the life out of you. It’s like dealing with a black hole. Everything goes in, but nothing comes out.

by Anonymousreply 48November 7, 2019 9:07 PM

[quote]All the ones I met dated married people and feel very clever that they are “better” than the person’s spouse and are trying to break up their relationship. They stalk their lover’s partner and will call them or their kids or tail their car because they love freaking people out. It makes them feel superior to be dating a married person. They are “winning.”

Wow, never heard this one before, but it makes so much sense.

by Anonymousreply 49November 7, 2019 9:20 PM

They will initially love bomb you, then gaslight you, then wage a massive smear campaign against you, they will enlist their flying monkeys to also smear and gaslight you, when you break up with them they will hoover. No contact is the only way and you have to stick to it meticulously.

On YT check out:

Ross Rosenberg

DoctorRamani

Inner Integration

by Anonymousreply 50November 7, 2019 9:30 PM

R49, the other thing they do is stalk the lover online, along with their family and friends. After seeing some of this, I’m not on Facebook and I’m careful not to reveal too much personal stuff online. Especially I don’t follow friends‘ and relatives’ accounts online or otherwise form a trackable link to other people that they can then stalk.

I’ve seen several of these people research someone out to the fifteenth cousin, neighbors, cars, you name it. They know where these people are and what they’re doing almost all the time. It’s like they think they own them.

by Anonymousreply 51November 7, 2019 9:30 PM

I think what hit me hard was the details in r2s outline. That experience was mine altho really it wasnt so much the narcissism it was the extreme sociopathy I had to deal with........ and there is a big difference between sociopathy and just narcissism....... altho they do go hand in hand often as in my case My situation with the sociopath included the fact he really tried to destroy me in every sense of the word over a long period and lost not a wink of sleep over it in 7 years. I was so in love I couldnt see straight and didnt want to be alive without him. It sounds pathetic but it was real.

Its much much different just being around one of them or having them peripherely in your life versus being in love with one. It was worse than any hell you could imagine.

by Anonymousreply 52November 7, 2019 9:57 PM

R33, I can totally relate to this, the reason it’s so hard to stop missing them or desiring to be with them is because they mold themselves into the person of your dreams, which tricks your brain into thinking that you’ve found your soulmate. My ex had all the signs and symptoms of a psychopath, but psychopathy wasn’t on my radar at the time, I didn’t know what it was, I just thought he was passionate and intense. I’ve since learned that’s it’s actually pretty rare for psychopaths to find people that they have a real interest in, but when they do they’ll do and say anything to keep you around. They become obsessed with you because they become addicted to the dopamine rush that they get by being around you/with you (the reward) and your mind reads this obsessiveness as intense love. They’ll mold themselves into the person of your dreams and go to great lengths to hide their dark side (especially in the beginning).

My ex was the perfect guy when he was around me, I rarely saw glimpses of that inner dark side (he was possessive, jealous, and sometimes quick to anger), but when he wasn’t that’s when the cheating, very aggressive/violent, criminal behavior came out. He would try really hard to hide it from me not because of any sort of guilt or shame, he just didn’t want me to leave. When I would find out about some of the things he was doing, he wouldn’t stop doing it he just tried to hide it better. Even with everything I know about him, sometimes I still miss the good times. It doesn’t help that he is very good looking (my type to a T) and has incredible sex appeal. He still stalks me to this day (something that psychopaths tend to do), but I know someone like him will never change, so it isn’t worth it.

by Anonymousreply 53November 7, 2019 10:00 PM

Maybe I'm just very fortunate, or have a highly attuned psycho-dar, but whenever one of these threads come up I wrack my brain to think of any narcissist or psychopath I've dealt with and I just can't name one. I've had a smattering of borderliners in my life. I've had to deal with them because they were connected to people I care about and you can't ditch a friend just because their child/spouse/sibling/parent is a nightmare.

by Anonymousreply 54November 7, 2019 10:20 PM

^^ They're very good at sniffing out people with particular vulnerabilities or those whose boundaries are weak. For example, I could perceive something wrong with someone who later transpired to have a personality disorder more than once, but I grew up trying to placate a narcissist, and that training overrode my instincts. It took years to overcome that.

by Anonymousreply 55November 7, 2019 10:31 PM

Good point, r55. I think I have a pretty strong “sixth sense” and pretty good at reading people. The first time I came in contact with my ex I didn’t like him; I found him attractive, but I got the sense that he was a bad person. So I tried to avoid him(which was difficult because we worked together), but he was dead set on not avoiding me. I guess he had it in his mind that he was going to do what it took to make me like him, no matter how many times I brushed him off and tried to avoid him, he wasn’t fazed by it at all, which I guess I found sort intriguing, the boldness, confidence, and perseverance, it was unusual. When I saw how “nice” and “charming” he was I began to doubt my judgement. I wasn’t very confident in my judgement at that time and was a bit of a people pleaser. He would go to other coworkers and tell them how much he liked me and that I wouldn’t speak to him/or that I was really short with him, nearly all of them had crushes on him and thought he was an amazing guy, so I gave in because I didn’t want to look like the bad guy (people pleasing). So yeah I was pretty vulnerable at the time.

by Anonymousreply 56November 7, 2019 11:40 PM

This is so far the best thread I've seen on DL in a long time. It seems that every post sheds more light on the subject. It's only recently that I've wanted to understand what this is about. And I'm seeing people from my past in the descriptions posted here.

The current situation is now no longer an indecisive one for me. I know I'll hear from this fellow again - when he needs something from me. And I will not reply. My pad is accessible from the outside of my building [if you climb over a railing to my outside deck], so I'm super careful to close and lock windows and keep a dowel in my bedroom's sliding glass door. He's never been violent, but that doesn't mean he won't snap. And he's sinewy strong. To add to that, when someone is a walking smoking volcano of rage, they can have moments where they can overpower anyone. And to reiterate, this is a fucking acquaintance! Nobody I've had any deep involvement with! I knew very soon after meeting him I had to get away pronto. He went batshit crazy before I had a chance to, wh. began this whole cycle.

by Anonymousreply 57November 8, 2019 12:08 AM

Gaslighting =

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 58November 8, 2019 1:40 AM

2 narcissist's goals...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 59November 8, 2019 1:43 AM

"Getting past the hurt left by the narcissist"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 60November 8, 2019 2:03 AM

R44, so you think you should sit back and let someone who is damaging, amoral and awful run roughshod all over people? When you see someone being an abusive asshole raising hell wherever they go you should do nothing?

Cowards like you are the reason things are the way they are. Meh. Who cares. It has nothing to do with you right? Keep your head down and live your little life and don’t try to help those who have no way to help themselves, right? I pity your friends, if you even have any.

by Anonymousreply 61November 8, 2019 2:52 AM

OP is the psychopathic Welp Troll. F and F and block.

by Anonymousreply 62November 8, 2019 2:52 AM

I agree, R54. I’ve known many borderlines but it’s hard for me to think of one psycho or sociopath but one does come up. A neighbor was letting his friend stay in his apartment while he was away and I would overhear the horrible fights he would have with his Bf. He had previously tried to befriend me in the stairwell and suggested getting drinks and even claimed I had the same name as his ex (a common line). One night he banged on my door asking for a phone charger. I wouldn’t let him in but I felt violated at the assumption that I’d open my door late at night for someone I knew was a psycho (based on the horrible fights I could overhear). Need a phone charger? Go to the Duane reade around the block. Until the neighbor returned I had to deal with hearing this psycho up on the roof (I was on the top floor) and was actually afraid he’d try to Spider-Man it down to my window.

by Anonymousreply 63November 8, 2019 2:54 AM

R61, you are clearly a paranoid schizophrenic, seeing narcs at work, home, in your bed and on the street. I suggest you ask your doctor for a Seroquel script.

by Anonymousreply 64November 8, 2019 2:57 AM

Celebrity sociiopath

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 65November 8, 2019 2:58 AM

R64 get fucked.

Oh that’s right, you never ever will, because you’re a cowardly friendless shitbag.

by Anonymousreply 66November 8, 2019 2:59 AM

R64 you also seem familiar with what psych meds to take? What a coincidence.

by Anonymousreply 67November 8, 2019 3:00 AM

Dumbass at r62: do you see the many posters here interacting and getting something out of this thread? F and F yourself.

by Anonymousreply 68November 8, 2019 3:40 AM

R10 = Histrionic Personality Disorder

by Anonymousreply 69November 8, 2019 5:55 AM

You’re poking the beast here, OP.

by Anonymousreply 70November 8, 2019 6:33 AM

I feel that covert narcissists are the worst kind of nasty because they pretend to be something else and gaslight until you have no idea what the hell happened to you. OP, beware of anyone love bombing you so soon into the relationship, that's the first red flag.

And I cannot remember who said only sociopaths lack empathy - no, actually narcissists also have an arrested development of empathy, also. Which is why they often get with people who have a lot of it because they see someone who will fulfil their every need in a selfless way.

by Anonymousreply 71November 8, 2019 6:55 AM

People other than your own children asking about how much your estate is worth is a RED FLAG. Also, financial, personal and medical information. They are collecting information about your children. This is a serious crime occurring.

If any of these people tell you to not include ALL your children in these financial or legal meetings, for sure this is a financial crime and you are deal with a dangerous narcissist or sociopath. It can be a scum bag lawyer, some one from the city or even relative or friend of a relative, this is a clear crime. Actually, this is the favorite crime of a sociopaths/narcissist.

If the spouse of one of your children or their family/friends ask, you are dealing with a very dangerous sociopath. Remember, one of your children can be gullible and stupid. Get all your children together in a trust with the same lawyer will prevent serious crimes and problems.

If this is happening to you, there is a clear way of dealing with the issue. Tell all your children together. Take all your children to a well respected lawyer to deal with this issue. Usually, inheritance does not go to anyone except your children. Make sure they are protected. You can double and triple down on this.

by Anonymousreply 72November 8, 2019 7:10 AM

Jesus, give it a rest, R72. Your weird, super-specific drama (that you drag out as a warning on EVERY SINGLE ONE of these "fucked up people" threads) is incredibly annoying. None cares about your delusions that everyone is plotting to steal your meager inheritance (paranoid much?). That's not what this thread is about.

by Anonymousreply 73November 8, 2019 9:52 AM

R43, Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder (sociopathy/psychopathy) are not mutually inclusive. Some NPDs also have APD, but that is not always the case. APD can also overlap with other Cluster B personality disorders such as Borderline and Histrionic.

by Anonymousreply 74November 8, 2019 11:38 AM

They are very Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde, charismatic "nice guy/gal" in public, monster behind closed doors . Which leaves the partner on the receiving end of the abuse feeling and looking crazy and also very alone and with no allies as no one believes Mr. Nice Guy/Gal is as awful as partner describes.

by Anonymousreply 75November 8, 2019 2:02 PM

[R75] My mother. She’s the mom in “White Oleander “. She’s has a pattern of fall outs with other women, and it’s always their fault for being jealous of her. I stay six hundred miles away, because she still gets me caught in her web. She only likes men, since they are the ones who reinforce her vanity. Interestingly, she claims that gay men secretly desire women because she can’t stand the thought that someone may not be entranced by her dried up old prune self. Telling her that there are men that find women repulsive sexually throws her for a loop, so I like to remind her whenever the subject comes up.

by Anonymousreply 76November 8, 2019 2:36 PM

What constitutes the B cluster?

by Anonymousreply 77November 8, 2019 2:46 PM

R76, I had an extremely narcissistic stepmother. Same thing there, no women friends. All women were competition to her, and I never heard her say a kind thing about any woman. Just constant competition and tearing them down.

She also felt very smug that all her friends were male fuckbuddies and thought that made her superior to women that actually liked to talk to people.

by Anonymousreply 78November 8, 2019 7:11 PM

My mother was a malignant narcissist. As a young child, I was only important to her as an accessory, much like a purse. She could take me places and show me off and put on the "good mommy" show. My father and I were very close and she was jealous of me because of that, so she'd lie to him about me. Once she broke his reading glasses and told him that I had done it. When he was in the hospital having his gall bladder removed, she told him that I didn't want to visit him. After some time he realized what she was doing, so that scheme didn't work any more.

We had a summer cottage. My father would go to work during the day, and come out to the cottage after work. One day, when she was supposed to be looking after me, four years old at the time , she went back to bed. I wanted to go to the shore, but she wouldn't take me there, so I left the cottage and went down the shore myself. When she woke up, and found that I was missing, there was hell to pay. Apparently she started shrieking and crying, and the other cottagers who were close by, came running. Meanwhile, I wandered back, and saw quite the frenzy had started. My mother was saying that my dad would be so angry at her, and that's what upset her most, not that I was missing, but that she'd get an earful from my father.

I truly believe she was responsible for the death of my sister. who was two years old and complaining about abdominal pain, but Mom couldn't be bothered to take her to the doctor, saying that it was merely a gas pain. My sister's appendix ruptured and she died of peritonitis.

After Dad died, she was hell on earth. She was a healthy, able woman, very much equipped to live in her own home, but she insisted that she was going to come live with me. That wasn't going to happen. I had my own life free of her. I asked my partner, "Am I doing the right thing?" He said "Yes, she'd make both our lives a living hell."

When she found out that she wasn't going to get her own way, she went completely haywire. She'd call her friends and tell them about what a bastard I was, and the terrible things I was saying to her. They were wise to her, and a couple of them would keep me informed about what was happening. She even called the police and told them that I was abusing her. The situation got so bad that her doctor called me and told me that he was admitting her to the hospital. Once she arrived there, she carried on like a freaking madwoman, tearing her clothes off and shrieking obscenities. That only got her admitted to the mental health unit, where she belonged. When she found out where she had been sent, suddenly she was on her best behavior, and was soon dismissed.

When she got home, she started calling me almost ceaselessly, sometimes 30 times a day. I had to change my phone number. Eventually, when she realized that she was not going to get what she wanted, she gave up her personal warfare. Sad to say, when she died, I felt nothing. I gave her a good funeral, but her death was almost a relief.

by Anonymousreply 79November 8, 2019 9:00 PM

Oh my gosh, fabulousmisslucy!!!! That’s heartbreaking about your sister! What a painful way to go. My grandma was a malignant narcissist and then handed it down to my mother. All the drama and a lifetime of betrayals makes me think I won’t be that sad when my mom kicks the bucket, as inelegant as that sounds. It’s hard to love someone who is all facade and no heart. I’m sorry for all DLers who basically raised themselves, against great odds. Sometimes I get sad and full of self pity, because I’ve never been loved, but I give it instead to people and animals. My parents are both incapable of love. They seek only admiration.

by Anonymousreply 80November 8, 2019 11:37 PM

red flag

Cluster b person does not like someone in their family, neighbor, work colleague (former), school mate. There is no problem, just stay away from them. Stop thinking about them, have a nice life. NOPE, a Cluster b person will go out of the way to cause problems and even confront the person they say they do not like: at their home, new workplace, new university. This is a behavior of Cluster bs.

by Anonymousreply 81November 9, 2019 12:05 AM

OP = narcissist. Obsessed with his own disorder and discussing it at length.

by Anonymousreply 82November 9, 2019 12:10 AM

R77 Cluster B means psychopath, narcissist and sadistic and a pathological liar. There is a difference between a person with just NPD and someone who is a malignant narcissist. A malignant narcissist has all four. Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist. I have an acquaintance who I originally knew because she was the neighbor of a person who had schizophrenia and he was my patient. I was a nurse at the time. He used to scream when he heard voices so she called me to talk him down. She was on disability for NPD but she is also a psychopath and is sadistic, paranoid and a pathological liar. I have seen her call social services on people to try to get their kids taken away if she any way thought the person had insulted her.l She would call the IRS on people and the cops. It got to the point where she called the police so often she complained to me that all the police would do is roll their eyes. She truly believed in vengence for any slight and she would try to destroy people. She finally inherited money from her mother and moved away most likely becasue she has made so many enemies in the small town she was living in.

by Anonymousreply 83November 9, 2019 1:29 AM

No tips to offer, but I'll share my experience with cluster Bs. The first one was during my late teens with someone--close to me in age-- who I sincerely believed wanted to be a true friend, the first really close friend that I ever had. Or so I thought. He was charming, and exceedingly charismatic, to a degree that I'd never experienced, and, he was so eagerly interested in pursuing a friendship, with me, a very lonely kid at 18 who was thoroughly confused and totally disillusioned with life. He seemed to be obsessed towards that objective, initially. And, wow, I thought this dude really likes me...as me. A beautiful thing in the mind of a young, naive, budding adult. I believe he wanted to pursue things further sexually, as did I, but nothing ever came of it. In relatively short order, everything came tumbling down. I began to see through his completely false charm which was his MO, and, in reaction, he began to lose interest and his attraction to me waned accordingly. In the end, he became cold and distant to the point where I confronted him about it and that ended up being the end of our whirlwind friendship.

We reconnected as friends many months later, but nothing was ever the same afterwards, with none of the personal intimacy we once had. Shortly thereafter, he married his pregnant sixteen year-old girlfriend and they ended up having five kids together, but all the while I knew that he was seducing and fucking young dudes on the side. He eventually got divorced and his wife left him with custody of the kids.

One other experience (among a few others), decades later, was with a former boss. The company I was with at the time--a small, regionally-based company--hired him to move us forward from a waning print market to the newly exploding internet marketing realm. But, immediately after he came aboard I knew that something was amiss. He began to set me up, and a few other long-term employees, to fail at our jobs. We had all been at this community oriented business for many, many years and had consistently contributed to its success. Our long-term loyalty and performance meant nothing to him and he set about turning the operations of the business on its head, ostensibly to make it relevant and more profitable. A few years years later, I quit because I knew that he had turned the entire operation into a scam by buying out our dying competitors as a source of unsustainable revenue, without ever intending to honor the inherited obligations. He also conned the owners of the company into giving him a bonus in the many tens of thousands of dollars by misleading them into believing that he had greatly (but falsely) increased revenue. About three or four weeks after I quit, he left the company to let it sink like the Titanic for another "promising" business opportunity.

For the first experience, I had no idea what a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist was, and only learned much later in life what these types of socially destructive personalities actually mean. And that's the sad reality of cluster Bs--they appear as highly successful, well-adjusted, over-the-top-charismatic people who excel at their game, and their true nature only becomes found out in the wake of their devastation. They are always ahead of the curve.

by Anonymousreply 84November 9, 2019 2:05 AM

*narcissist

by Anonymousreply 85November 9, 2019 2:09 AM

Tell them to fuck right off.

by Anonymousreply 86November 9, 2019 2:12 AM

They are exceptionally toxic and dangerous. It's too bad they can't just put these people away, they destroy people's lives for no apparent reason.

by Anonymousreply 87November 9, 2019 2:17 AM

I noticed that they do a lot of mirroring. If you are a liberal they are a liberal. If you're a conservative they are conservative. If you are an atheist they are or if Christian they are. They don't have a core identity. They will charm, manipulate and gaslight you. They overvalue and then when you get comfortable they undervalue you. They are devoid of an inner core. Black holes.

by Anonymousreply 88November 9, 2019 2:33 AM

"4 issues that drive narcissists crazy"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 89November 9, 2019 4:18 AM

That’s an interesting statement, R88.

One I knew constantly changed religions. She went from Jewish to a form of born again Christian, which is quite a leap. She did it because she wanted to do a business deal with the pastor. Later on, she became some other type of Christian (when she got mad at the pastor).

Another thing they do is sue everyone for everything, all the time. Trump and his family are examples of this. Also Devin Nunes and his constant lawsuits of people on Twitter that speak disparagingly of him. Most people would just let this stuff go, or at most be mildly irritated. These people have lawyers on speed dial.

by Anonymousreply 90November 9, 2019 6:46 AM

My first experience with BPD was some friend's step father. They hated him but couldn't get their mother to stop "saving" him. He was a Vietnam vet with PTSD and soooo fragile. He couldn't hold down a regular job because the stress was too much, instead he ran his own business doing displays of Medieval and Roman arms at schools. She was the one who held down the 9-5 job while helping him run his business. If he was having a "bad day" she would make the phone calls and excuses on his behalf. Her kids had to be quiet when he had migraines and flashbacks. She would miss important events in their lives because he'd be having some kind of meltdown. When he woke at night with screaming nightmares she'd comfort him. If we were at a social event his nervous twitches and weird pronouncements would hold the centre of attention. He had friends and family, but they were NEVER to meet each other....part of the PTSD, don't you know? Anyways, as his step kids grew up they became more and more cynical about his behaviour and, as history majors, they knew how to do a bit of research. Turns out the guy had never been to Vietnam!!! Never even served in the military. When they confronted their mother with the evidence she was devastated and threw him out of the house. But she had wasted a decade babying a lying manipulative man-child.

by Anonymousreply 91November 9, 2019 7:08 AM

R80, thank you for your comment. Something else about my mother - she was totally devoid of any imagination whatsoever. I cannot remember one single time she played with me or read to me as a small child. Fortunately, I had my father and paternal grandmother (who lived with us.) Dad would play with me without even being asked and he was the most imaginative man, ceaselessly coming up with new games and ideas. He and my grandmother read stories to me constantly, so they filled in for the lack of attention from my mother, who, by the way, thought reading was a waste of time, and that I read too much.

by Anonymousreply 92November 9, 2019 9:07 AM

So much ugliness.

by Anonymousreply 93November 9, 2019 11:20 AM

R71, that very thing happened to me. When he said to me that he lacks empathy and was trying to work on feeling more compassion for people, instead of running away from this guy, I fell right into his trap and said, "Don't worry, I have enough empathy for both of us." He was testing me and I passed his test. He was also giving me a warning which I failed myself by ignoring it.

by Anonymousreply 94November 9, 2019 1:27 PM

R94 I've noticed that narcs love to tell you the truth about who they are. It amuses them that most people tend to think "oh, if they say that, it must not be true, what a lovely, self-deprecating person!" I've seen that in almost every narc I know so I learned to believe when people tell me who they are.

by Anonymousreply 95November 9, 2019 1:45 PM

Also, they think they are above the law. The narc that I experienced received a very strong cease and desist letter and she still continues to harass my friend and her daughter. I hope the narc winds up in jail. They have to be brought to their knees. If I understand npd disorder, it seems to stem from zero self esteem.

by Anonymousreply 96November 9, 2019 1:55 PM

The mirroring is so very true. Whatever you like or want, that's what they like and want too, initially. Makes you feel like you've met your "soul mate", until they flip the switch...

by Anonymousreply 97November 9, 2019 2:21 PM

R94, don't feel bad; good people often have to learn the hard way. I'd never have considered that a human being could actually, literally behave and be how narcissists are. But then I married one. And divorced one (the same one!). And still am not free of them because we share children, who are old enough now to see the neglect, abandonment, and pathology, so thanks for fucking up those innocents, too. At the moment this person is blowing up life, has suddenly decided that college for children is not their problem (despite making near mid- 6 figures the last few years, working in another country), and is quickly descending into a permanent state of narcissistic rage, which looks remarkably like the raging of King Lear. Paranoid, petty, vindictive, erratic, inappropriate with people, with alcohol and sex pathologies becoming the only thing that matters. Siblings think this narc will die drunk and alone, just like his father before him.

by Anonymousreply 98November 9, 2019 2:26 PM

I actually mirror people too but I'm not a narcissist. I was raised by abusive narcissists but I am not one. And still, I can't help but mirror people (way of speaking, energy, topics of conversation, vocabulary, body language) although I'm aware of it and want to stop.

by Anonymousreply 99November 9, 2019 2:43 PM

Thank you R98. I beat myself up pretty good for being such an easy "mark". This thread has been extremely helpful. I'm sorry that you're not free of him. I do realize how lucky I am that our relationship was brief (1+ years) and he just disappeared one day.

by Anonymousreply 100November 9, 2019 3:05 PM

You're welcome, R100. Not at all your fault that someone whose entire being is about lying their way through life & who doesn't see *anyone* as worthy humans took advantage of normal human trust and compassion. Make sure you now understand boundaries and that it is not uncaring to have them so you don't get entangled with another one (or another kind of sociopath). My experience is horrendous, but if my experiences can be useful for anyone else, I am always good to share what I know!

by Anonymousreply 101November 9, 2019 4:49 PM

This thread is hilarious. Sociopathy is stupidly rare. This thread is just a list of people you didn't like.

by Anonymousreply 102November 9, 2019 5:28 PM

I think a lot of the increase in this type of people has to do with the way they were raised. And maybe their parents doing drugs and alcohol at or near the time of conception. The huge amount of people that have no empathy of any kind isn’t normal.

I also think a lot of this is coming to light due to the internet. People like this have no self awareness and they’re not seeking help. It’s like anything else online: no one knew there were so many, until people started talking about it.

by Anonymousreply 103November 9, 2019 5:37 PM

Grey wall? Stone wall? Rock wall?

by Anonymousreply 104November 9, 2019 5:50 PM

When I think about it, here’s some of the npd’s I know:

Person 1: Dad was a hard core alcoholic very young. Parents broke up very early on due to Dad’s alcoholism.

Persons 2&3: Dad an alcoholic. Dad’s entire family alcoholics. Mom was a heavy drinker as they grew up and put partying ahead of their welfare.

Person 4: family struggled financially, then father absent, mom put kids in foster care for a while.

See a pattern?

by Anonymousreply 105November 9, 2019 5:57 PM

No, R105. Many people grow up with dysfunctional parents and don't grow up to be monsters. Sometimes one sibling does and the others don't. Do not try to oversimplify something that even scientists do not understand completely.

by Anonymousreply 106November 9, 2019 6:00 PM

Almost forgot Person 5, the worst one I know: Dad was a scam artist. Mom was straitlaced and boring according to 5. A non-entity in their eyes. Dad was exciting and idolized. Dad thought 5 was his favorite.

Grew up to be a scammer just like dear old dad.

by Anonymousreply 107November 9, 2019 6:02 PM

Nobody’s saying some people with bad parents don’t grow away from the parents’ bad habits. One reason for this is mentors, or one side of the family are more stable and nurturing, like grandparents or aunts and uncles. But of course people from bad environments are more likely to have problems.

by Anonymousreply 108November 9, 2019 6:05 PM

I personally believe the statistics regarding Narcissists and/or Sociopaths is under estimated as they don't seek help, they don't think they have a problem. In their minds they are great. Can you imagine Cheetolini seeking therapy?

They may get dragged to marriage counseling where they either charm the therapist and make their partner look insane or they actually gain valuable information in therapy on how to better disguise themselves. Either way they don't seek help like someone who is depressed for instance.

by Anonymousreply 109November 9, 2019 6:18 PM

R109, I agree. How can you put a measurement for mental illness on a group that rarely seek counseling because they think everyone else is the problem?

by Anonymousreply 110November 9, 2019 6:27 PM

When it comes to something as damaging as sociopathy, a prevalence rate of 2% in the general population seems quite high.

One out of every 50 people is a sociopath. Each one of them causes a lot of damage.

by Anonymousreply 111November 9, 2019 6:33 PM

Best book I have found on how to recognize and deal with Cluster B’s:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 112November 9, 2019 6:40 PM

Thanks, R2, That describes me perfectly!

by Anonymousreply 113November 9, 2019 6:49 PM

R94 - Don't feel bad. Your intentions were good and he exploited them, you would not have really known what you were getting into until it happened. At least we all know what to look out for now.

R109 - It is interesting what you say about Narcs and sociopaths not getting help- I can believe there are far more undiagnosed people walking around than we know because they do not think they need help, as you say. I also read that lot of them are very good at fooling psychologists/therapists because they are so damn good at deception and manipulation.

by Anonymousreply 114November 9, 2019 7:09 PM

Thanks, R112. I think that may be very helpful to me.

by Anonymousreply 115November 9, 2019 7:20 PM

Anyone blaming themselves for getting into one of these relationships really shouldn't. People with malignant NPD (psychopathy + NPD) are born without empathy or a conscious. Brain scans of them show less grey matter in certain areas of the brain where empathy comes from. It is a form of brain damage or maybe there was an evolutionary reason for it. Psychopaths, for instance, are extreme risk-takers. Might have been a good trait to have before we had civilizations. Not everyone who has NPD is a psychopath but all psychopaths are narcissists and when you add sadism you get pure evil. They know exactly how to manipulate people. If you were in one of these relationships then you can watch for these traits in the future. And Run the other way.

by Anonymousreply 116November 9, 2019 7:51 PM

R94 and R95 One sociopathic type I knew (maybe not as far up on the psychopathy scale as some, but still an asshole) said that he did not feel anything and would say that he was an asshole, a disgusting person, etc. Years later, I saw a clip from one of Louis Theroux's documentaries on Jimmy Savile where Jimmy very matter-of-factly stated "I don't feel anything." That fucker was hiding in plain sight, and it made me wonder if there was a pattern to these people challenging others to take them at their word when they told the truth about themselves. It makes me think of serial killers taunting the police.

by Anonymousreply 117November 9, 2019 11:31 PM

My problem is my narcissistic sister. She contols mom's life and estate. She has been telling everyone for years that mom has dementia and got dr.s on board who asisted in getting mom out of her house and into a home. My mom does not have dementia, not even close. I have never been able to bring myself to tell my mom what my sister has been doing since it will hurt her greatly. My sister tried to get mom into a very restrictive environment where she would be drugged and strapped into a chair. This is not at all deserved or appropriate for my mom. This time my mom objected and fought back and for the moment my sister has backed away. She was sweet as pie while my mom was able to give her money but now she has no reason to do it and so dresses up her actions as "what's best for mom." I live in another country and have been cut out of all decisions, she won't even tell me about the smallest aspects. She gained power of attorney without telling me. I manage to see my mom every couple of years and we do talk frankly about any number of issues but this one thing I cannot broach too deeply. It has become quite a tricky situation.

So the poster above warning about the shenanigans with lawyers is on the money.

I really wish I could mentally disengage from my sister, and sometimes I do.

A few years ago she dropped her sweet mask and revealed how deeply she hated mom. That's when I became afraid of what she would do. I am smart and determined but I was no match for my sister. I made the mistake of seeing her for who I believed she was and not who she is. Then she went on to out-manoeuvre me at every turn. I cannot even describe how helpless I feel now.

by Anonymousreply 118November 10, 2019 7:53 AM

There are a lot of financial scams/abuse against Elderly people. I would call your sister and get a lawyer.

Scammers and abusers try to divide the family, and can turn siblings against each other. This is actually a Red Flag Warning of financial abuse: if/your mother does not want to speak to you together. It can professionals doing this; lawyers, social workers, financial advisors, psychotherapists, health care professionals, financial institutions, etc.

You should have a family trust, were you all are consulted. A clear sign that financial abuse is occurring, when a lawyer is recommending not to do this, at any time. It can be others suggesting this too. If the lawyer is working for your mom, you and your sister, this cannot happen. And other predators cannot hurt you either.

This is important!!

by Anonymousreply 119November 11, 2019 4:09 AM

Carral all your siblings together with your parents and get a lawyer together. If anyone is telling you not to do this, they are NO GOOD. A sociopath.

A good family trust and will, would leave out everyone, except the children. There are clear clauses to leave out the spouses of your children. If your adult children want to share their inheritance with their spouses, they can do so. There is no need to change the will/trust.

If you leave your inheritance to your adult children, an equal amount to each, this is the clearest and easiest will and trust you can draw up. It is also the best for your siblings and the health of your family in the future, when you will not be there because you will be deceased.

by Anonymousreply 120November 11, 2019 4:20 AM

Going no contact from a narcissist is the only way to handle them. Though it's not easy because they've warped your mind and made you dependent on them.

by Anonymousreply 121November 11, 2019 4:38 AM

The sociopath I dated was sexually abused by his own father. It came out during one of his drunken outbursts. He was crying hysterically as he recalled to me the memory of his father raping him as a child. He carried that around for years and I'm sure still does.

I had never seen him so vulnerable. He was a thug and a former drug dealer who hurt others.

He refused counseling and his family were a bunch of enablers. His mother promptly encouraged him not to bring it up. Ever again.

Eventually, I accepted that he was fucked up beyond repair. Not because he was an incest and sexual abuse survivor. But bcause he lacked the motivation or ability to change.

He simply drank to rid himself of the memories. Morning to night.

He left me mistrustful, cynical and discouraged in terms of having another monogamous relationship.

by Anonymousreply 122November 11, 2019 4:39 AM

IF your spouse and their family members speak poorly about your siblings, it is a red flag situation. A better idea would be, limit the time you spend together with both families. Stay polite, kind and cordial, while expanding healthy boundaries.

by Anonymousreply 123November 11, 2019 5:24 AM

Santa Exchange: Yes, it is this time of year.

This is a perfect way to deal with harmful narcissism during Holidays. Do a santa exchange for the holidays. Set the price limit so everyone on their budget can participate. You only have to buy one gift, instead of a ton. You keep the holidays festive, keep your family together and people in the exchange group still get to do some fun and meaningful Xmas shopping.

Make sure that this holiday event is with your family members in the exchange group, so there are no hurt feelings. No one is left out.

One suggestion is let the children have one group and the adults another. Kids buy one gift for one of their kids family member. Adults buy one gift for one of their adult family member. Remember, to set up in advance and pick names. You want to give all your gift details (clothing size and interests) ahead of time, so people enjoy their Christmas/holiday shopping for you.

by Anonymousreply 124November 12, 2019 2:54 AM

[QUOTE] He left me mistrustful, cynical and discouraged in terms of having another monogamous relationship.

So instead you became a HOE.

by Anonymousreply 125November 12, 2019 5:22 AM

WTF is R124 going on about? Wrong thread.

by Anonymousreply 126November 12, 2019 8:47 AM

R125 I became a happy hoe.

by Anonymousreply 127November 12, 2019 2:20 PM

R124, what a stupid idea. Why should kids buy each other presents even though children have no money, and benefit most from Christmas time? You're a flailing spaz who should be locked away.

I'm guessing that you're broke and terrified of the expense of Christmas. You especially fear all the many narcissists in your family buying your kids better presents than you can afford, so you propose that children should all buy each other shit from the dollar store.

by Anonymousreply 128November 13, 2019 12:11 AM

R122, it’s amazing how similar they are; my ex was/is a thug/criminal too, but you’d never know it by looking at him or interacting with him. His main group of friends (he has many separate groups of friends) are basically a criminal gang. I’m talking car theft, drugs, real estate and credit card fraud, armed robbery, etc. Many of his “friends” have been to jail/prison, but he has only been arrested once because he gets them to take the fall for him, they’re never in there for very long anyway. Somehow, someway he was able to get his record expunged/sealed after that one arrest. My ex didn’t do these things for the money (he didn’t need the money) he did it/does for the thrill and excitement. They’re great at compartmentalizing their lives and can have drastically different personas, I guess not having a conscience makes it easy for them. Even now he’s in a middle-level management position and makes pretty good money yet he’s still a stalker and a thug. I definitely relate to feeling less trusting of others after dealing with something so insane, a real life Lifetime movie of the week. It’s crazy.

by Anonymousreply 129November 13, 2019 1:15 AM

You need very strong, healthy boundaries. Do not let them cross over. Cluster Bs will violate these healthy boundaries, personal information and personal space very quickly. They may act out if you do not give them what they what, a clear red flag.

Also, they tend to blame others for their behavior or actions. Often, it will be your children. If you do not have children, it will be a younger family member or family member you should care about.

by Anonymousreply 130November 13, 2019 1:33 AM

Cluster Bs like to destroy people's Holidays and Birthdays. They will often target their victims at their homes for the Holidays. One tip to keep healthy boundaries is have your holiday party at a neutral location, such as, a restaurant. Another tip is have lots of mini holiday parties, limit time and and neutral location also when needed.

by Anonymousreply 131November 18, 2019 1:08 AM

Cluster Bs often force their elderly parents and relatives to host them and make them do more than they should. In this case, you should move to a restaurant party and get hotel rooms. Also, I have seen Cluster Bs do this to families with children, sick relative and friends.

by Anonymousreply 132November 18, 2019 1:14 AM

People do not like spending time with negative people and Cluster Bs cannot stand this. They will double down on malicious, unethical and nasty behavior, instead of getting better and expanding healthy boundaries, so everyone is happy. If there are malicious gossipers in your mist for the Holidays, especially around the Healthy Boundaries for the Holidays plans, you have a cluster Bs. Remember, Cluster Bs hate Healthy Boundaries, target their victims and ruin people's Holidays.

by Anonymousreply 133November 18, 2019 1:20 AM

Cluster Bs have Sibiling Rivalry on Acid. They do not want their siblings to be happy for the Holidays. Also, they make children lives miserable too, especially their own.

by Anonymousreply 134November 18, 2019 1:23 AM

i was just told that a client of mine is going home to spend thanksgiving with siblings they do not like. I asked them, "why not just stay where you are?" They said I want to get them back. They want to cause trouble. What a psycho.

by Anonymousreply 135November 18, 2019 1:55 AM

I would like to know, what causes a person to turn into this. What do you say to people who are just mean and want to do mean things to people? When they are talking about doing something mean to someone, or gossiping, do you just say that is mean, stop. That's wrong. What do you do and say?

These are the tips I kind of want.

by Anonymousreply 136November 18, 2019 2:00 AM

R2 yeah, that's nice but why do we look at this from a feeling victim standpoint? I'm not talking about the murderers and rapist, embezzling manipulators. I think most of them emotionally abused and damaged as children people who never learned how to love and the narcissism is a maladaptive coping mechanism to love themselves.

Acting like these flawed people are toxic walking scum that are wired differently,with no hope is just very weird to me. I get that you and the victims of their behavior are fighting back against it but it's just so odd. For what it's worth I lived under people like this and thinking their brains are without a soul makes me want to cry. When I to think of them as people who were always seeking love and just never really do found it and forgive and forget them , it's so much better.

I'm just saying this because reactionary hatred back, when not in the moments after being a victim of them, but years later, I know who that is helping. They were people and babies once and everyone needs live. I don't think everyone knows how to treat people with kindness, respect, trust and love.

by Anonymousreply 137November 18, 2019 12:01 PM

I see that R137 has not yet experienced the real five star narcissistic treatment. Let's wait and ask him again after it happens.

by Anonymousreply 138November 18, 2019 12:06 PM

R138 in a relationship? By a parent? What do you mean? I don't know what the full 5 star treatment is but I am not saying that people who have experienced that pain are somehow invalid. I'm just saying that a decade of thinking a parent was evil incarnate kept me under their control by fear. When I started examining their childhood and why they were the way they were, I saw them as a grown up hurt child.

I'm talking about an abusive home which had gaslighting, eggshell walking, bruises, black eye, hair pulling, slaps, yelling, door slams, constant power struggles, black sheep, and yards of invisible emotional pain, suicide and just sheer craziness. I thought they were a narcissist but they were never officially diagnosed.

That said, I just thinking like that never helped me. It's almost like doing what the narcissist did. I don't want to be around them obviously. I guess people who are that hard on narcissists must still be coping with the pain and still think it's their fault and are trying to appropriately place the blame back on the narcissist. I think the run away advice, which is no contact in a sense, is very good.

If they're a true narcissist just cut them out of your life and your feelings by not thinking about them. It's not your fault. Make peace with the fact that life is hard and probably hard for narcissists too and just let it alone. Ruminating doesn't help I don't think but obviously freshly hurt people need to vent and I guess that's what this is. I hope years later you can finally find peace and feel better and leave it all behind with no mark on you, right? I'd even hope that for the narcissist so they don't do it to others

by Anonymousreply 139November 18, 2019 12:52 PM

Exploit them before they exploit you. Get under their skin by stroking their narcissism, get into their inner circle, then fuck them.

by Anonymousreply 140November 18, 2019 1:07 PM

R14 I've been doing this for eons but didn't know it was called grey rocking. Years ago, I had the experience of being 'reverse grey rocked' by the office control freak. Luckily I only had to deal with the person for a few minutes per week (I reported directly to their boss). But as they were upper-mid level I thought it would be a decent idea to get at least a courteous relationship going with them, so spent 4 or 5 minutes trying to find a little common ground with them. Office talk. I did find some common ground but they were resistant.

Next time we met, this person acted though I was the world's greatest energy drain to them, would brush off small talk, drop all eye contact and skirt away like they were in danger of being damaged when I went past them. This went on for several months, and as I didn't want anything at all from them, I was happier and happier all the time that this person was avoiding me in the office. Of course, this treatment did not last. The first time I needed something (an unbelievably tiny request), there was an explosion of drama, hands-on-hips, eye-rolling and all the months of me not being bothered coming to the surface. I made this request several more times over the next few weeks, partially because I was enjoying the pain it was causing them. So in the end, they got the drama they wanted from me.

by Anonymousreply 141November 18, 2019 1:38 PM

R137, you are exactly the type of person a narcissist targets. They are masters at finding kind and compassionate people to devour.

by Anonymousreply 142November 18, 2019 2:17 PM

I posted upthread about my present experiences with a narcissist. I should like to issue one piece of advice. Never reply to them. Under any circumstances. I learned something empirically [that means you experienced learning the knowledge as opposed to reading about it, right?]. A narcissist doesn't see things the way a normally adjusted person sees it. I can't even describe what it is they see, but it is sick. They talk circles around you, inventing facts about you that would be heinous if true; and the narcissist speaks about these inventions with total confidence.

And this is the experience I had *NOT* retaliating to a hateful text I rec'd yesterday.

by Anonymousreply 143November 18, 2019 2:41 PM

Another recommendation for grey rocking until they lose interest in you. That way, they feel as if they are discarding you and you will not have damaged their ego (thus requiring them to get back at you or decreasing the likelihood that they will ever come back to you to get their narcissistic supply).

I once befriended a coworker and it took a while to realize that they were some sort of narcissistic mess. They realized I was backing away and went into overdrive in an attempt to elicit a reaction. They tried all sorts of tactics - effusive praise, insults, oversharing... It was driving me nuts. Someone told me about grey rocking. From then on, I became the grey rockiest person there ever was. Whenever the coworker would try to get a reaction from me, I would apologize and explain that I had a lot on my mind and then go on to describe in minute detail some mundane matter. One day it was trying to make a decision between washing machine brands. Another day I would explain my dilemma in trying to choose different shades of white paint. They tried to seem interested because they were trying to get me back under their spell. Eventually, though, the lack of narcissistic supply drove them away.

Seriously, just start talking about mundane crap and if they try to complain act like you didn't hear them and keep on blabbing.

by Anonymousreply 144November 18, 2019 3:06 PM

R142 can't target you if you don't talk! ;)

by Anonymousreply 145November 18, 2019 3:28 PM

Anyone who does anything but avoids these people at all costs, after they realize what they're dealing with are truly pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 146November 18, 2019 3:47 PM

[R146] are you saying that after all we've talked about on this thread, if you contact a narcissist, or reply to their attempt to contact you, then you're an idiot? I would have to agree in my case presently.

by Anonymousreply 147November 18, 2019 3:54 PM

I would normally avoid my sister but she and I share a mother and sometimes we have to talk about her care, at least I do. What my sis cares about is looking good and most of all being admired. She's been in overdrive lately with the fillers, tanning, excercising and hair-grooming and she just let it slip that surprise! Her 50th school reunion is coming up. That means friending absolutely everyone on facebook and eliciting comments on how young she looks (insert Olivia DeHavilland joke here). I am being lovebombed out of the blue and thought, what's up? Guess she's gearing up for another go-round of All About Me. As irritating as this cycle is, it is much better than when she is out to cut a bitch behind someon's back. That is usually a long term project which involves someone she knows well. One time it was me. I almost took my own life because of it. But I never told her that. She would really know her power if I told her what effect her words and actions had on me. This was her getting me back for going against her and disputing her "sweet and kind" image. My only hope is to outlive her which isn't likely because she is incredibly fit.

by Anonymousreply 148November 18, 2019 4:47 PM

My apologies R148. My comment was horribly worded. Obviously, some people cannot avoid them (like you). I was talking about the ones who continue to engage when they could walk away.

Truly, I'm very sorry for my poorly worded reply. I hope you're free of her sooner rather than later.

by Anonymousreply 149November 18, 2019 4:52 PM

I wish we had had this kind of thread/discussion 20 years ago. I'm glad to read the perspectives and first-hand experiences. I shared some of my own a few years ago. Knowing these things will help move us forward after Trump.

by Anonymousreply 150November 18, 2019 6:24 PM

There's something un- or re- wired in the brain of a narcissist that the vast majority do or don't possess. Thanks to this thread, I've been able to answer questions about several people I have known, some very well. One thing occurred to me earlier and that is that a narcissist doesn't have the ability to define anything. That's a Zen koan statement wh. I'll try to wrench the clearest explanation I can from, with a leetle time.

by Anonymousreply 151November 18, 2019 9:12 PM

I'm pretty sure r7 is my ex (almost exactly the same language he's used in the past) which is rich as ll my friends warned me he was a narc before we got together and continue to claim it today. He's a nightmare and I'm sorry he has this condition but I can't help wishing I'd never met him.

by Anonymousreply 152November 18, 2019 9:33 PM

Like R7 said, they put you under a spell. It's so weird to think that someone can actually do that. And I'm talking about a relationship, not a co-worker or family member. I would joke to him that he put a voodoo spell on me, and he'd chuckle. But that's what it felt like.

by Anonymousreply 153November 19, 2019 12:26 AM

No worries R146. Because you are correct, after a point it is pathetic. And I don't see myself as pathetic so that realization made me wake up and start noticing the effect my sister was having on me and my reputation in the family. I began to notice when her friends met me they shrank from me and acted like I was the devil. My immediate thought was: what on earth has she been saying about me? I mean, we are thousands of miles apart and really have nothing to do with one another in day-to-day life.

My therapist advised forging stronger relationships with other members of the family so when push comes to shove I can turn to them. It is a shame, more than a shame that my mom has suffered from my sister's hatred. Too late, my mom realizes she handed control over to the wrong person instead of a neutral third party such as a trust or law firm. As soon as she won control my sister let us glimpse the monster inside. I had suspected she was a seriously bad person but managed to keep the blinders on for almost 60 years---now that is some world-class denial! However the signs were there, I just ignored them.

Btw this hatred for my mom erupted when my sis percieved she was in the way of getting her new man---he objected to mom and so out she had to go. My sis's children and stepchildren have a lot to say about how much pain she has caused in their lives. People do eventually disengage with her and she is constantly moving, like a shark, making new best friends. I had noticed that but always explained it away as her inability to make friends with "good" people. Like I said---denial!

by Anonymousreply 154November 19, 2019 12:45 AM

"That means friending absolutely everyone on facebook and eliciting comments on how young she looks"

My sister does this. She posts a new, soft-focus pic of herself about every week and people are supposed to tell her how young/good she looks.

by Anonymousreply 155November 19, 2019 1:44 AM

'If there are malicious gossipers in your mist for the Holidays, especially around the Healthy Boundaries for the Holidays plans, you have a cluster Bs. Remember, Cluster Bs hate Healthy Boundaries, target their victims and ruin people's Holidays.'

You sound demented. Maybe get yourself checked for Alzheimers and take some English lessons, too.

by Anonymousreply 156November 19, 2019 1:54 AM

I wish I had known about the gray rock technique years ago, but I wonder if it's something that only works on those with narcissistic personality disorder rather than antisocial personality disorder and/or psychopathy? And what if it takes years (if ever) for them to finally get tired of you and discard you? Is it possible to discard/break up them first and still effectively use the gray rock technique? I don't think I ever got past the idealize stage with my ex before we broke up which may be the reason the "hoovering"/stalking is still a problem. It's probably too late because it seems that in order to use this technique I would have to have some sort of contact with him and that's not wise in my opinion. Well, at least I'm aware of the technique now I guess.

by Anonymousreply 157November 19, 2019 2:27 AM

Grey Rocking is what abused kids did to stay alive and compartmentalize everything that was happening to them. It is not healthy, but they had no choice, no community to help them. We really need to model healthy empathetic parenting. It sort of a method of last resort.

For adults, this method can be used for people who you do not have to be around, a temp work colleague, crazy neighbor, a difficult parent at your kid's school, etc.

by Anonymousreply 158November 19, 2019 2:41 AM

malicious gossiping is a one of the signs of Narcissists/cluster Bs. This is even more clear if it is around Christmas/Holidays because people are suppose to be in that Holiday Spirit, being kind to one another. Also, Cluster Bs love to ruin these celebrations for family members and others.

If you do not like someone, do not go over their house and ruin their Christmas. And if you have nothing nice to say about that person, do not go over their house.

We tell parents with problems between adult siblings, have a smaller Christmas (holiday) and make it neutral, such as, a restaurant. They can still invite the children over to share some traditions, but no adults, no in laws.

by Anonymousreply 159November 19, 2019 2:52 AM

How to keep the peace with psychos.

If your in-laws just have to have Christmas on Christmas Day, do not fight them. Just have your holiday celebration(s) after. For a child, it does not really matter what day you celebrate with them. They just what to know that you love them and you are forming special memories together.

by Anonymousreply 160November 19, 2019 3:00 AM

people who go on Instagram in their 40's is not a good sign. Look at my pedicure feet at a free park or community pool, screams desperate and boring.

by Anonymousreply 161November 19, 2019 11:49 PM

'They can still invite the children over to share some traditions, but no adults, no in laws.'

Are you a pedophile, OP? You sound VERY disturbed and obsessed with children. As if their parents would allow them to come to your house alone.

by Anonymousreply 162November 20, 2019 12:24 AM

They should just label this the Cluster B forum. That's all anyone talks about here.

by Anonymousreply 163November 20, 2019 12:25 AM

R163 - true. Every celebrity gets diagnosed as a Cluster B. The OP definitely is.

by Anonymousreply 164November 20, 2019 12:35 AM

these threads are triggering the Russian Trolls and bots.

by Anonymousreply 165November 20, 2019 2:32 AM

R165 is the sociopathic Welp Troll

by Anonymousreply 166November 20, 2019 5:27 AM

Narcissists are notoriously poor gift givers. If you gave someone a thoughtful gift and they freak out, chances are they are a cluster B. Making the Gift giving rules more difficult or demanding something that is outside of your budget is also a sign. Ruining the santa exchange, if they agreed to be in it, is a big one.

by Anonymousreply 167November 21, 2019 2:39 AM

Cluster Bs are "Parasitic." They have low empathy, which causes them to do batshit and cruel things. If they have children, they will steal or live off their kids. One sign is making their kids pay rent, pay for household items or utilities, or their essentials (food, clothes, phones). Really bad ones, will even take birthday and Christmas money and gifts from their kids.

by Anonymousreply 168November 21, 2019 2:46 AM

If your adult children do not get along (right now), it is perfectly fine to have separate mini holidays with them. This way you can tailor this to their individual needs and wants.

For instance, you have one kid who loves Broadway, you can do a show and/or trip with them. You have another child, who wants to do a home cooked meal and presents with their kids, fine if it's not you doing it.

by Anonymousreply 169November 21, 2019 4:21 AM

Holiday Tips:

Do not go over someone's home that you do not like. It is this simple. Be polite, courteous and kind. Do not stay long. Cluster Bs are incapable of this and we say to them: Do not Go, SIMPLE.

Also, if someone is rude to your siblings and/or parents, do not bring them. Yes, even if they are your SO or in-laws. Gossip, Drama and Chaos are not gifts anyone wants. This is a red flag: Someone who cannot be polite, courteous and kind for a celebration.

by Anonymousreply 170November 21, 2019 4:40 AM

This is another batshit thing we hear:

Children's spouses and in laws demanding expensive gifts. You do not have to buy gifts for your children's spouses or their relatives for the Holidays. This is the very definition of "Parasitic."

You do have to buy gifts for your children and grandchild though, if and when you see them. It must be within your budget. A lot of people cut off adult children when they have kids, especially at times when moey is tight. A santa exchange might work for this situation.

by Anonymousreply 171November 21, 2019 4:52 AM

This thread is just one sad spazzy Cluster B talking himself out of buying his extended family Christmas gifts.

by Anonymousreply 172November 21, 2019 1:33 PM

This thread is now reaffirming the decision we made as a family a few years ago to just stop it with gifting, now that all the kids in the family are older. It is so nice to just not have to worry about Christmas/birthday gifts, everyone is happier this way.

by Anonymousreply 173November 21, 2019 1:39 PM

I was in a relationship with a narcissist. He's gone now, but there are times that I miss him. I guess as time passes, I tend to think of only the good times. Every time those good feelings arise, I reread this thread and I'm so thankful that he's gone. So, thank you to the OP and to the people who sincerely posted in this thread. It's very helpful.

by Anonymousreply 174November 21, 2019 2:53 PM

Healthy Boundaries is a very important strategy to deal with life, especially with difficult people and Cluster Bs. Healthy Boundaries mean real physical personal spaces and privacy, among other things. Cluster Bs will try to violate your personal space and privacy almost immediately. But, you can put them back into place.

For the Holidays, people will try to stay at you place for free, stay too long, cause problems with your children and try to get into personal spaces (think bedroom, pantry, personal office, medicine cabinet). Also, these difficult people will try to ask personal and sensitive information, such as, financial or very personal. Cluster's B are malicious gossipers, so we see them talking badly about people and will try to turn you against your spouse and children, even in your own home. Also, chaos and drama about gifts, food and accommodations.

For this, we recommend a restaurant for extended family and friends. Also, smaller more intimate celebrations with your nuclear family and friends. Can be more than one event. Remember, Cluster B, difficult people and dysfunction family patterns can be in your extended family. It is best to limit your time.

by Anonymousreply 175November 21, 2019 9:11 PM

IF you have the pleasure of staying free at someone's home, you do need to give a nice and thoughtful Thank You Gift. You do need to be polite and kind.

A cluster B will be rude to your kids and animals. they will be pissed that you did not treat them like the Queen of England. They will be very disrupted, chaotic and dramatic. They will tell people lies about you after the fact for years, malicious gossipers and liars.

Someone in your family may feel used, put upon, or have a story to tell. Though, they may be strangely sweet to you. Often we hear that the lady of the house was treated well, but everyone else not so much. This is more in-line with an extreme narcissist or sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 176November 21, 2019 9:27 PM

'For this, we recommend a restaurant for extended family and friends. '

Who is 'we'? You sound like a schizophrenic with multiple personality disorder. Hoe, you yourself belong in the CLUSTER B, you big spaz.

by Anonymousreply 177November 22, 2019 1:51 AM

'A cluster B will be rude to your kids and animals.'

True. A Cluster B deliberately let my house cat out into the garden despite my telling him she had never been outside. She ran into the road and was killed. Another Cluster B was asked to get a pet rabbit vaccinated and given the money. She spent the money on a skirt and pretended the bunny had been vaccinated. The rabbit later became infected with VHD1 and died horribly.

These people are demonic.

by Anonymousreply 178November 22, 2019 1:59 AM

Cluster Bs will tell you that they are doing fabulously well, but they need to stay for FREE at you house.

by Anonymousreply 179November 22, 2019 3:13 AM

Dear God, I wish Muriel would establish some "healthy boundaries" with the fraucow @ R175, who can't stop vomiting all over this thread about her trashy family. No one GAF, bitch. Your people are just garden variety losers and grifters. No need to label them with a fancy personality disorder just so you can whine about them on DL.

[quote]For this, we recommend a restaurant for extended family and friends.

'WE' recommend you just punch and delete your trailer trash family and friends.

by Anonymousreply 180November 22, 2019 6:16 AM

R180, the OP is a Kiwi Farms type. Up there with Bunnika.

by Anonymousreply 181November 22, 2019 12:01 PM

This probably isn’t the “right” thing to do, but It try not to anger these people. Not to ingratiate myself, but to not threaten their “self”. They tend to broadcast the self they want to be: successful business person, the best mom ever, ladies’ man, etc. If challenged, they become irate and dangerous. If it doesn’t cost me anything, I’ll just play along and not challenge or question them. It’s really not worth it.

And of course, stay as far away as possible.

by Anonymousreply 182November 22, 2019 12:29 PM

R182, you sound pitiful and not fully literate.

by Anonymousreply 183November 22, 2019 12:57 PM

When your Therapist doesn't get it about the Narcissist in your life. I've had this happen to me and I appreciate this doc speaking out about it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 184November 22, 2019 1:58 PM

Get as far away as possible.

by Anonymousreply 185November 22, 2019 2:11 PM

[QUOTE] make sure all your children are signed on with the family lawyer firm, not just one children. Even a disabled or minor child has to be there. If not, they are sociopaths.

What the fuck?

by Anonymousreply 186November 22, 2019 2:15 PM

[QUOTE] People with malignant NPD (psychopathy + NPD) are born without empathy or a conscious.

Learn to spell, you imbecile. Every single person is born without a CONSCIENCE and EMPATHY. They are social constructs, acquired through nuture, example, and education.

by Anonymousreply 187November 22, 2019 2:25 PM

I was just told by a sociopath that I am a loser because I read, you know, books. Sure jan (side eyed).

Of course, jan might chop me up into little pieces.

by Anonymousreply 188November 22, 2019 10:59 PM

[R188] I lost it laughing. Ha! Nothing like a rightbacatchabitch!

by Anonymousreply 189November 22, 2019 11:52 PM

A bucket with lotion is being lowered now, what should I do? More importantly, this hole gets pretty good reception.

by Anonymousreply 190November 23, 2019 3:51 AM

If your in-law, spouse, significant other or friend bitches about your family that hosted them, do not invite them the following year. They can go to their family's or friend's house. Gossiping and Bad Mouthing are Big Nos. It is a red flag for cluster b, dysfunctional and abusive family patterns.

Polite, Courteous and Kind.

IF you have nothing nice to say about someone, do not go. If you begin to not enjoy yourself, you can leave. Go home or get a hotel room. Remember, personal space, privacy and other healthy boundaries.

by Anonymousreply 191November 23, 2019 6:51 AM

Roses are red

Narcs are blue

OP is a Cluster B

A sociopath through and through

by Anonymousreply 192November 23, 2019 10:55 AM

If people seem more out to get you than help you or get to know you, with healthy boundaries and time, it is a very bad sign.

These are all very bad signs: You ask, Please keep this private and they do not. Or the conversation should clearly be private given the information and they do not. Or you ask someone you talk with about a personal issue, if they spoke about and remind them to be sensitive about it, and they seem rude, indifferent or creepy, it is a bad sign. You are ask to give out personal information of someone else's. This is a big warning sign.

IF someone is asking you about another person, tell them ask that person directly. You may need to warn them. This is a very dangerous person.

by Anonymousreply 193November 26, 2019 6:47 AM

I wish I had some of this background information when I was younger and made the dreadful mistake of marrying a narcissist. Even after several break-ups and him getting engaged to someone else. I knew that I made a major mistake after 6 months, but I really loved the guy. Silly me thought that I could just work harder to make things better and save the marriage.

It took long enough for me to wake up and plan my escape. He pulled every trick he could, even contesting the divorce. In the end, I cut off the landline, got a new cell phone and refused to accept his calls at my work (it eventually took a restraining order to block him) . Thank goodness I had a shark for an attorney.

I ended up loosing almost everything, declaring bankruptcy, and moving out of state. It was all worth it, even though I had to work double time to re-establish myself. The recovery part hasn't been easy.

by Anonymousreply 194November 26, 2019 8:06 AM

sociopaths and narcissists will try to ruin your holidays and birthdays celebrations. In fact, this is one of their favorite things to do. Were did they learn this from? Usually, it is from dysfunctional and abusive family patterns. Sometimes this is group, such as a cult, teaching their recruits to do this.

It is perfectly okay to meet with your different family members in smaller group for celebrations, or meet them at restaurants. One thing we see is that there is one dominate family member that claims Thanksgiving or Christmas is just on their day, every has to go to this day's event and no one else had better do anything else. If there are problems, it is better to have different mini celebrations than one big one.

by Anonymousreply 195November 26, 2019 10:16 PM

'It is perfectly okay to meet with your different family members in smaller group for celebrations, or meet them at restaurant'

You massive. spaz, this is the tenth time you've written this ! Go and meet with your fucking family in tiny groups. Nobody here cares. Fuglicia.

by Anonymousreply 196November 26, 2019 10:32 PM

Asking people for personal information and financial information is a clear sign of a sociopath and narcissist. If you do not feel comfortable, this is fine. A sociopath and narcissist will get mad and knock you off balance to get information from you. You may leave a conversation with a sociopath and narcissist feeling sicker, off balance, STRESSED and even creeped out. Also, you may even feel guilty because you did not engage with the sociopath and narcissist's game to hurt you and your family.

Your mantra is: I DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION BITCH.

by Anonymousreply 197November 26, 2019 10:44 PM

what is a real life example of gaslighting?

by Anonymousreply 198November 26, 2019 11:08 PM

R198, the posters on the BRF threads will attack Meghan Markle for her 'nappy hair' and other racial features and, when called out and shown the relevant racist posts, will say the posts don't exist or aren't racist and that the person calling them out is racist instead.

A narcissist will be in a terrible mood, snapping and attacking and trying to ruin a long anticipated event like a holiday abroad. When confronted, they will gaslight by pretending they are responding to YOUR bad mood, even though you're in a great mood because you'd been looking forward to the holiday for months.l

by Anonymousreply 199November 26, 2019 11:15 PM

sociopaths and narcissist Red Flag: another person does not get to have a professional medical or public health opinion on your medical condition. Protect your spouse and children too.

Sociopaths and narcissists tend to conflate facts, professional reality and opinions. Facts are opinions, emotions are thoughts and their subjective, biased opinions are professional reality. It is no fun speaking with these people.

by Anonymousreply 200November 26, 2019 11:18 PM

R200, OP, YOU are acting like an autistic person by failing to engage with other responses on your thread. You repeat the same point and demonstrate zero empathy or even acknowledgement.

by Anonymousreply 201November 27, 2019 6:07 AM

cluster bs do have low empathy. If you are around them, they will make everything worse. They never chose to do a straightforward problem solving with empathy. They do not want to problem solve and treat people well. They want drama. They want chaos.

by Anonymousreply 202November 29, 2019 7:24 PM

R202 nailed it.

by Anonymousreply 203November 29, 2019 7:27 PM

They maliciously gossip, plot and scheme. They play a lot of head games, or the classic abusive tactics. Usually, it is a group that is dysfunctional or abusive. These patterns are passed down in families, or can be religious cults or other groups.

by Anonymousreply 204November 29, 2019 7:29 PM

R204 yes!

by Anonymousreply 205November 29, 2019 7:30 PM

Cluster Bs tend to pick on vulnerable people. They need someone to pick on and it is easier to hurt a vulnerable person. Children and People with illnesses (very sick, disabled) are classic targets of Cluster Bs. Also, animals. It is really so sick and so terrifying.

by Anonymousreply 206November 29, 2019 7:38 PM

Theyre also always making scenes, saying offensive stuff, arguing...anything to disrupt and get/keep attention on them. Utterly exhausting and unpleasant.

by Anonymousreply 207November 29, 2019 7:44 PM

As an outsider, a cluster b household is no fun. They cannot seem to throw a fun event (dinner party, cocktail party or BBQ). It tends to be chaotic, disorganized and just plain not fun. They may seem put off that you are there even though you were invited a million times (like you may see them as they truly are). Of course, they will be upset with your host gift.

This is the place you want to leave and go to your fun party, or just go home.

by Anonymousreply 208November 29, 2019 7:57 PM

Cluster Bs cannot resolve conflicts with people in an adult way, taking in account other people, planning, respect and problem solving. This is due to a lack of empathy and analytical skills. They will go nuclear and not apologize. In fact, it seems like it was a planned thing to do to their favorite victim, or victim du jour.

Often, they target the victim where they live. This event takes place where the victim lives. Nasty calls, emails, going there to cause causing trouble, threaten or worse. Of course, they are maliciously gossiping about the victim all over the place.

by Anonymousreply 209November 29, 2019 8:39 PM

Remember that it takes two to tango. If you continue in the relationship, and/ or continue being abused, you are complicit in your abuse *

*I put the asterisk because I realize that is too simplistic to apply in all cases. It does apply in most. And it apples to an extent in nearly all the rest. It is spirit if the concept.

(Much like "You can do anything if you out your mind to it."

Which from a literal standpoint, is if course bullshit. You cannot become the Prime Ministrr of Russia. You cannot lose 80 lbs. in five days. You cannot join the NFL if you are a midget with no arms. You cannot get into medical school and then become a world renouned neurosurgeon if you are retarded and blind. You cannot become Miss America if you are a 400 lb man. You cannot go to Canada and singlehandedly overthrow the government and declare yourself King and think Queen Elizabrh is going to host you as a fellow royal there in London next week.

BUT if you are capable of taking bthe statement in its intended spirit v. like an Aspergers addled dork: It can be beneficial.)

Going back to main statement, namely:

"Remember that it takes two to tango. If you continue in the relationship, and/ or continue being abused, you are complicit in your abuse."

Be firm but not (old) Axis2 rigid. Don't gave unrealistic expectations (certain failure).

If someone owes you $500 and it is going to cost you more than that to collect. don't collect to "make a point." Needy retard.

Life is complicated and there are intricate business arrangements. I may know that a trust fund manager is skimming a bit (abusive), but breaking the trust as left to me would cost massive fortune, and next s. o.b. may be as bad or worse. Weigh pluses and minuses.

If leaving your abusive spouse would result in homelessness for you, then leave him today only if the abuse is extreme.

If he is a little insensitive at times and cheats youi, leave him a bit later (after taking some measures to see that you won't be homeless). Be strategic. Not impulsive/retarded.

Remember that some forms of the silent treatment (from siblings, partners, whomever), comprise a particularly manipulative, abusive, toxic. and cruel form of gaslighting and emotional abuse. If someone won't return calls or texts or emails: Stop calling or texting or emailing them (assuming you have not done something egregious., if you have send an apology text (ONE) IF it is sindere and then stop calling, texting, emailing.

If you did not do anything wrong and they won't give you an explanation of what the problem is: You are letting them abuse you if you keep trying to contact them. Turn the tables on them by not playng their game. Take the power away from them. The opposite of love is not hate,; it is indifference. Being indifferent to (or not playing the games of or "tango-ing" with a sociopath) throws them completely off their game. They need you to need them. Don't.

by Anonymousreply 210November 29, 2019 8:51 PM

[quote]People other than your own children asking about how much your estate is worth is a RED FLAG.

r72, most of us already know this. I'm sorry for whatever happened to you. Just so you are aware - psychopaths will test people out before proceeding. In your case, you attracted an "estate-stealing" psycho. Realize that there many persons before you who cut them dead after a question like that. And that's just what the psycho wants. They don't want to waste time on someone hip to "estate-stealing." They want to quickly move on to the next person.

by Anonymousreply 211November 29, 2019 11:08 PM

there is no real difference between all the psychos of the cluster B (narcissists, borderlines, sociopath/psychopaths)... they are ALL exploitative and manipulative. what matters is our survival, not their mental disease. the ONLY solution is to go and maintain "no contact", for ever, especially for those of us who grew up in such family systems. if you lack the courage to put yourself first, just know that your life will be pure suffering, accept it and stop complaining about it.

"no contact" is, unfortunately, the only solution that works.

by Anonymousreply 212November 30, 2019 12:44 AM

one more point... those of us who grew up in cluster B family systems are tainted with some of those personality traits... we have strong borderline, narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies... as long as we have been the scapegoat of our family (and so have developed a strong sensitivity and empathy to survive), we CAN heal as long as we are strong enough to go no contact for ever. we have to cut our losses and go...

story of my life... went no contact with the whole family when I turned 40 years-old... lost everything... collapsed mentally... then rebuilt.

what i have learned in the recovery process: life is actually worth living. and just that realization saved my life. after 8 years of no contact, i am not even tempted to contact any of them.

by Anonymousreply 213November 30, 2019 12:51 AM

for those who have shared custody of kids with a cluster B, let's not lie... there is NO solution (grey rock is a constant exhausting fight with oneself). your kids WILL also end up on the cluster B spectrum, and the justice system will prevent you from saving them... your health will degrade as if you were living with your ex-spouse. one of the kids (the scapegoat) will save his/her life when he/she decides to go no contact with dad, mom, and the whole family system.

it is serious business. that's exactly why it is the main topic of interest of every sacred writing of the last 15.000 years.

by Anonymousreply 214November 30, 2019 12:57 AM

r214

You are absolutely correct. It's a life destroying situation to have to co-parent with a cluster b, you can't go no contact, grey rock doesn't work and actually inflames, the justice system protects the abuser's rights and the unrelenting machinations destroys your health . They kid(s) end up messed up no matter how much of the abuse you take on yourself to shield them.

by Anonymousreply 215November 30, 2019 2:46 AM

Cluster Bs cannot just have:

little to nothing in common with a person(s),

no shared interests,

pet peeves,

or just not really like a person for any reason, oh no.

Cluster Bs have to be destructive and extreme. They HATE people. They lie about them, smear them. They dehumanize them.

by Anonymousreply 216December 1, 2019 1:15 AM

Cluster Bs just don't like you, they HATE you.

They also hate your children.

They also hate your animals/pets.

Yes, you all are in danger.

by Anonymousreply 217December 1, 2019 2:39 AM

Cluster Bs cannot just limit contact with a person, stay away from where the person they do not like is (where they live, will be or work place). They cannot abide by healthy boundaries, commonly practices by normal people. With them, people have to be destroyed. High drama, high conflict and destruction till the end. They will never stop, until the person is destroyed or dead, then they move on to their next targets.

by Anonymousreply 218December 1, 2019 3:37 AM

On the fourth day of Christmas my true love gave to me

Four autistic bitches

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 219December 1, 2019 3:46 AM

Cluster Bs do not work alone. They have accomplices, often called flying monkeys. Flying monkeys are others. A group/mob that also commit abuse and can commit crimes along with other Cluster Bs.

Sometimes a Nar or borderline will bring in sociopaths and felons. These are very dangerous people to do a crime, in order to get someone back who they think wronged them. Cluster Bs cannot not take being called out for hurting someone, since they have low empathy. They freak out when being caught, if they were side eyed or if they were just having a bad day.

Strangely, it can be family members who are the flying monkeys. Cluster Bs love to get people back. Dysfunctional and Abusive patterns are often are learned in families. Grifters and Criminals often were taught within their families. Though, it can be through other groups, especially religious organizations and cults.

by Anonymousreply 220December 1, 2019 3:53 AM

But, my cult told me I am a PEACH.

by Anonymousreply 221December 1, 2019 3:54 AM

On the fifth day of Christmas my true love gave to me

Five flying monkeys

Four English narcs

Three grey rocks

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 222December 1, 2019 6:46 PM

I suppose mine's a success story in that he's no longer in my life and I'm alive. He's blocked on all social platforms and my phone.

Ironically, I saw him 2x within the last few months 12 hours apart - no interaction, but I could feel him knowing I could see him off to the side each time.

It's all the text book stuff. I'd met him this charmer a few times and on the third or fourth instance he faux sheepishly said: Oh, you don't remember me.

The scary thing is right then and there I knew it was a game to him. My cue was to then apologize and says I remember you! Which I more or less did. And then it was on. He knew how to throw charm and that masculine buddy let's be pals stuff that I fall for each and every time.

And fear I will again. Something gets trigger in the mind and emotions of their prey.

OP, all I can say is avoid all contact. It won't change. Interactions are a drug, at least they were to me.

People told me before I got in too deep that he was trouble. I thought I could handle it. I didn't.

I recently ended up scrolling through some old texts related to the whole manner; it brought back the horror of it all.

I'm going to be content being alone, or try to be; work on my career and try to build to my retirement.

by Anonymousreply 223December 1, 2019 7:22 PM

Here's an example of how we cast people as we want them to be. Charlotte's at some event on Sex & the City and she's getting hit on or something and this frat guy comes out of nowhere and decks whoever is harassing her.

Well, of course, Charlotte sees this guy as a white knight in armor. They go out on a date, Sunday Brunch, and someone walks by accidentally bumps the table -- Charlotte's 'hero' then decks the guy. Over that.

She realizes he's just a bully and not a good guy.

We see what we want. It's sad, really.

I'm afraid the next time I meet someone who seems to be good and I cut them out or don't get to know them, I'll have maybe passed on a really good guy.

by Anonymousreply 224December 1, 2019 9:57 PM

R220, especially the mormons. Cluster Bs are prevalent in Idaho and Utah.

by Anonymousreply 225December 1, 2019 10:21 PM

We do not diagnosis cluster bs in children. I repeat children cannot be have a Cluster B personality disorder. IF you are hearing this, the parents, family members, other persons are committing serious crimes against children. Call for HELP immediately.

by Anonymousreply 226December 1, 2019 10:46 PM

Cluster Bs are afraid of being caught. They avoid medical doctors.

With medical doctors, they doctor shop, do not seem to know how modern medicine works, they take their children or family member to low quality PCP, speak poorly about all doctors as a whole (generalizations).

Very often, they hook up with charlatans, treat medical conditions with batshit stuff/snake oil, are anti vaxxer, get their medical information from mommy blogs or very harmful websites or people. They do not go to medical specialists. They conflate their health insurance plan with the medical community.

Also dangerous, they may LIE about the medical conditions of their children (and family members) to school personnel, authorities, etc. This mean making up illness their children have. Or they do not mention the very serious medical condition their children have. They may be doing this to others too, other victims.

by Anonymousreply 227December 1, 2019 11:02 PM

Family Courts will see, massive interruptions in medical care. No medical doctors, no medical specialists. Instead we see, social workers that are in private practice, operating outside the scope of their license. Also, we see religious people and life coaches. These are charlatans and they will do and say anything for money. Something these people are very dangerous people.

Again, they may be doing this to other people, meaning that there could be other victims.

by Anonymousreply 228December 1, 2019 11:09 PM

R227 this is so spot on.

by Anonymousreply 229December 1, 2019 11:10 PM

Mental Health Professionals should not be taking sides, siding with one person against the other. This is not mental health treatment. This is not Psychology.

Picking a team to be on is very immature. This is a sign of a person without the proper formal training and on-going supervision. This person may be a Cluster B, and proper documentation of this person or agency should begin to revoke their license at all levels. Cluster Bs are at a core level extremely immature and do not see how to get along with people. They do not practice healthy boundaries, so they could not describe them.

Again, we see this in social workers, life coaches, cults and spiritual counselors frequently. Also, we see this in people who claim to be advocates. Again, they side with the person who is paying them. Occasionally, we see this in mental health professionals that are not doing well in their careers, such as, money problems, not plugged into professional associations, no peers link to serious medical centers and universities.

by Anonymousreply 230December 1, 2019 11:23 PM

I encountered a narcissist on Facebook who I've never even met in my entire life, but I'd accepted their friend request because we had mutual friends and were in the same line of work. Things went smoothly for awhile until I started getting more acknowledgement for my work than this person did. This nut case started trying to spread lies about me, but thankfully, no one bought the lies since it seems like everyone has a horror story about this person doing them wrong. They're always posting those "woe is me" statuses about how no one loves them or no one wants to work with them and all the bridges they've burned. I finally had to block them and then the claws really came out.

It's pure insecurity and jealousy of literally everyone that motivates the narcissist. There's always going to be someone better at something than they are and it drives them nuts. I really don't know how they live in such a constant state of high alert. It'd make me want to kill myself.

by Anonymousreply 231December 1, 2019 11:44 PM

Abusive families (parents) neglect their family members, including children. They may actually say that the person or child has a mental illness to get away with it. People with mental illness, including cluster bs, deserve high quality medical care, including mental health. Abusive parents conflate everything with a mental health symptom. Abusive parents diagnosis their own child. They do not take them to quality medical care professionals.

Who is responsible (financially) for the care of a person with mental health condition? Family Members

Who can treat a person with a mental health condition? A board certified specialist, with clear expertise in the treatment of the condition.

Who decides? A sane and responsible adult, if it is a minor child. If it is an adult, the person themselves.

by Anonymousreply 232December 2, 2019 1:38 AM

R232, the vast majority of mental health professionals will not diagnose a child with a cluster B personality disorder. I have a teen who is having some issues. The therapist recommended DBT, which is strongly recommended for adults with borderline PD. I flat-out ASKED if that was the diagnosis and the therapist told me that because the person is a teenager, and so many teenagers exhibit some of the features without developing the disorder as adults, they can’t call it that. So basically my kid is just temporarily being an asshole right now.

Or I’m the one who’s crazy.

by Anonymousreply 233December 2, 2019 7:30 PM

On the fifth day of Christmas my true love gave to me

Six healthy boundaries

Five flying monkeys

Four narcissists

Three grey rocks

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 234December 2, 2019 10:41 PM

Let's talk about abusive families and what they do...

They use an abuse tactic called Parentification. They make the children or young people in their families parent them. They do not nurture, take care and support their children. Nope, in abusive families it is the other way around. Children have to take care of the parents, grandparents, younger children and pets. You needs, including the development of your emotional health is not nurtured in abusive families. Basically, you are denied being a child, denied a childhood. Emotional abuse to physical abuse often occur too. The effects of parentification and other abuse tactics are life long trauma.

We often see parasitic behavior latter on. This is when the abusive parents and grandparents try to live off their children and grandchildren. Stealing and other crimes may occur. Stealing the children and families member's inheritance, bank accounts, school money is common in abusive families and legal authorities need to help protect children and grandchildren from this.

These abusive family members may have other victims too.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 235December 2, 2019 11:48 PM

On the seventh day of Christmas my true love gave to me

Seven abusive families

Six healthy boundaries

Five flying monkeys

Four narcissists

Three grey rocks

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 236December 2, 2019 11:49 PM

Evie is a narcissist bitch on Twitter who I detest. A bully and a little Napoleon. A lot of Cluster Bs try to be powerful on social media. They love attacking people.

by Anonymousreply 237December 2, 2019 11:51 PM

Red Flag Warning to pick out Sociopaths, Sadists and worst:

They are hyper interested in your children and your personal and private lives. For some odd reason, sociopaths and worse are hyper focused in your sleep, eating and bathing patterns. It is super creepy. If your children are older, private sexual behavior. Of course, they may already be hyper interested in your sex life.

Seek advice from relatives that are COOL, Modern and have training and experience. Cut off those who do not for these sensitive type issue.

by Anonymousreply 238December 4, 2019 1:31 AM

On the eighth day of Christmas my true love gave to me

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven abusive families

Six healthy boundaries

Five flying monkeys

Four narcissists

Three grey rocks

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 239December 4, 2019 1:35 AM

A high quality medical doctor is a board certified medical doctor with CLEAR training and certifications. These Medical Doctors and Medical Specialists are located at high quality medical center and Universities. Do not go cheap with Children.

Cut off social workers, uneducated relatives and religious orgs/cults because these people are dangerous.

by Anonymousreply 240December 4, 2019 1:41 AM

'Cut off social workers,'

Really, Mr Aspergers? Why would you want to cut off social workers? Sounds like you are a PEDOPHILE and have plenty to hide, bitch. You're up there on the CLUSTER B yourself.

by Anonymousreply 241December 4, 2019 2:29 AM

'Seek advice from relatives that are COOL, '

This has to be the most stupid piece of advice on an incredibly stupid thread.

by Anonymousreply 242December 4, 2019 2:33 AM

I said a relative that is cool, modern and has formal education in the area that you are asking about. i should have stated someone who understands science and modern medicine.

Do not ask a religious nutjob about sexuality or sexual health.

Or nazi grandma about a interracial friendship, school assignments, or basically anything.

Or anti vaxxer mary about childhood health.

EVERYONE on DL will get this.

by Anonymousreply 243December 4, 2019 4:08 AM

Cut off Social Workers. They are not Medical Doctors. Regarding mental health, they are the least train. Social Workers do not have the formal training and supervision in Child Development/Childhood illness/Childhood Expertise. For children, always go to a medical center or university that focuses on Children.

I would recommend doing this for yourself too.

by Anonymousreply 244December 4, 2019 4:13 AM

Let's talk about abusive families and what they do... Infantilization

Abusive Families use an abuse tactic called Infantilization. Infantilization is treating a human being as a child, or a child below their age. We see abusive families (parents):

not asking children, if their needs and wants are being meet.

suppressing children for speaking, expressing themselves, or punishing children for talking or playing,

undervaluing of privacy and personal space,

undermining the development of healthy boundaries,

inability to help a child cope with emotions, school, friends, health, etc.

Suppressing and humiliating children when they are talking about rationale and logical subjects, (school subjects, issues learned from others and TV/Computer shows.)

Unaware and uninterested in the normal child development stages (human development),

Obsession with extreme medical conditions, in their children. Medical Conditions that they do not have.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 245December 4, 2019 4:44 AM

Infantilization is an abuse tactic that was most likely learned in abusive families. People who use infantilization will almost always have other victims. Infantilzation is what a creepy person does if they lack empathy and need to mimic nurturing. There also seems to be a lack of analytical ability in the adult abusers who is using this dehumanizing tactic.

We see this in a lot in social workers, foster care homes and religious-related child care facilities. Also, we see that the ability to report the abusing party is blocked at these agencies. Also, even the ability to change to another person or be referred to another agency for care and support services is blocked.

To an outsider, infantilization may come across as just weird or not ideal. It is important to know this is an extreme abuse tactic under the umbrella of dehumanization and is very dangerous on it's own, though abusers are using many dehumanization and abuse tactics.

by Anonymousreply 246December 4, 2019 5:02 AM

I consider myself fortunate that I don't have any narcissists or other cluster B personalities close to me in my personal or work lives. I've had brushes with someone I believe to be a sociopath and someone who was batshit insane and committed a double murder, but our dealings were very tangential and neither focused much attention on me. I have been acquainted with a few high drama people that might be histrionic or have some of the traits of such, but the grey rocking thing is an excellent way of dealing with them and it turns out to be my instinctive response when someone sets off my bullshit meter and tries to stir things up.

I do deal professionally with a couple of people that have aspects of the emotional vampire type (though both are kind and caring people), and I just try to be sympathetic without getting too drawn in to whatever tribulation [italic]du jour[/italic] they're currently facing.

by Anonymousreply 247December 4, 2019 5:38 AM

I’ve met some monstrous social workers in my quest for mental health help.

by Anonymousreply 248December 4, 2019 8:53 AM

On the ninth day of Christmas my true love gave to me:

Nine emotional vampires

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven flying monkeys

Six healthy boundaries

Five grey rocks

Four sociopaths

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 249December 4, 2019 12:52 PM

Over the years I too have come across some awful social workers and have learned to steer clear of them. Better to wait for an appointment with a psychologist no matter how long it takes.

by Anonymousreply 250December 4, 2019 1:35 PM

R248, I’m starting to realize, with some horror, that the LCSW my child sees weekly is... problematic. Things have gotten worse, not better. She overidentifies with my teen. She has been pushing for medication because it has helped her. She shared this in a meeting with us, where she also spoke at length about her own self-harm when she was a teen. We are also having a power struggle because while I appreciate her confidentiality with my child, she does not share the content of her discussions with other professionals (school guidance counselor, psychologist, et al) with me. I said “you don’t have to break confidentiality in order to discuss my child with me”. When I threatened to revoke consent for her to discuss my child with a practitioner who was not treating my child, she got huffy and implied that I was trying to withhold treatment that my child desperately needs and reminded me that she’s a mandated reporter.

I don’t know how I allowed this dingbat to accrue so much power without my realizing it. Any objection I have - to ANYTHING - is met with “Don’t you want to help your child?”

by Anonymousreply 251December 4, 2019 1:51 PM

A social worker cannot advise on medication. This is outside the scope of their license. Get a Child Psychologist, preferring at a major medical center or university. A social worker is really not trained to work with children, as they lack the formal education and supervised training.

I do not know what is going on with your child and your family? If it is major, get a professional. If it is minor, get a tutor and a fun baby sitter, and maybe line up a child psychologist.

by Anonymousreply 252December 4, 2019 5:28 PM

Gotta love the random capitalization on R240. Seems like something a cluster B would do. Histrionic, perhaps?

by Anonymousreply 253December 5, 2019 9:48 PM

They love to go to where you are to ruin your holidays, celebrations and birthdays.

They are very bad gift givers. The secret santa posts are right. If you get a cluster b, someone else is going to have to buy a gift for that person. make sure you have price limit, so you can do just this.

Also, they will cause trouble when you are giving gifts to other family members, and even their own children. They are jealous that the attention is not on them. Do a gift registry for children. Or prepare a gift list with children that include sizes. Make people sent it out early so you have plenty of time. Cluster Bs and dysfunctional families/people cause a lot of problems with gifts, so nip it in the bud with these suggestions that work. You need to move to protect children, your family members and keep sanity and fun for the Holidays.

by Anonymousreply 254December 5, 2019 10:17 PM

Give gifts in person. Cluster Bs will not give your gifts to children, and maybe others if you send them.

If it is money, sent up a bank account for children yourself (grandkids/nieces/nephews). Cluster B parents will raid it. Also, you have in-laws to worry about.

by Anonymousreply 255December 5, 2019 10:22 PM

I hate people who are obsessed with these umbrella terms and use them to diagnose anyone they don't like. Which is what the majority of the replies in this thread suggest you people do.

by Anonymousreply 256December 5, 2019 10:26 PM

Cluster Bs, dysfunctional and abusive families do not want to provide specialized POSITIVE attention to each child in the family. Is a child is isolated it is for abuse, what they call discipline. Make sure that you break this negative abusive pattern if you are a family member or professional.

Family members can be there to provide this specialized attention. Also, this alienates some stress from parenting. If the Holidays, can your children go to different homes for some specialized attention? If you are a family member, can you ask? Set this up.

by Anonymousreply 257December 5, 2019 10:29 PM

'If the Holidays, can your children go to different homes for some specialized attention? '

An open imvitation to pedophiles everywhere.

by Anonymousreply 258December 5, 2019 10:43 PM

Healthy Boundaries are what you should have in place anyways. Cluster Bs will have steam rolled over them, so you have to put them back into place.

by Anonymousreply 259December 5, 2019 10:43 PM

On the tenth day of Christmas my true love gave to me:

Ten infantilizations

Nine emotional vampires

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven flying monkeys

Six healthy boundaries

Five grey rocks

Four sociopaths

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 260December 5, 2019 11:47 PM

On the eleventh day of Christmas

The manic OP gave to me

Eleven dysfunctional families

Ten unqualified doctors

Nine gift registeries

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven flying monkeys

Six healthy boundaries

Five grey rocks

Four sociopaths

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 261December 8, 2019 4:21 AM

R241, Asperger Syndrome is not authentic. Asperger Syndrome was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders (DSM) is 2013.

To everyone who wants genuine advice on how to handle the problem as stated in the thread's title:

First, unless you are a licensed medical professional, you are not permitted to diagnose other's problems! If the problem person or offender is a relative, do not give them more than two chances. Do not confront the relative with hate/anger or engage in what my mother referred to as "common low-class B.S." That includes harassing telephone calls, confrontations with shouting, etc. Consult a licensed expert, provide only the facts and proceed as the expert advises, which will probably include an intervention.

If a crime is committed against you by a relative, call 9-1-1 and other authorities. I made the mistakes of not doing so several times and I regret those. Nobody is entitled to commit any crime against you. Unless you are a law enforcement official, you are not entitled to determine what constitutes a crime against you or your property. Do not use 9-1-1 as a convenience or you shall be prosecuted. 9-1-1 is only for genuine emergencies.

If the problem person or offender is a friend, you are not required to provide support. Follow the same above advice if you are certain there is a serious problem and you are willing to take reponsibililty. My compliments to you if you;'re willing to help a friend in need. Mental disorders affect at least 20% of Americans. Nobody is entitled to diagnose that in someone unless you're a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist.

Alcohol and drug abuse in the USA are at a record high. The former has adversely affected my life since birth. Nobody should endure either. I strongly urge everyone to take that just and proper attitude. Some people simply refuse to acknowledge that although alcohol is legal, it's abuse destroys the life of the user and others. I never abused alcohol and haven't had a full drink since I was 23, but relatives and people I used to call friends wrong accuse me of abusing alcohol. In fact, most of them are the guilty parties. I'm not embarrassed to tell the truth. I'm no angel, but I've never been really drunk and I've never tried an illegal drug. Mentally disturbed people will continue to project and blame their problems on others until someone forces that to stop. Good luck and please always try to take the high road.

by Anonymousreply 262December 8, 2019 5:27 AM

My sister is a complete sociopath. At age 30 she has had three kids, and has lost custody of two of them. The baby daddy ran away with the third one a week ago. Of course she ran to Facebook to post this, resulting in a complete meltdown that involved practically my entire town. Of course my sister doesn't care anything about the kid, but likely thought that it was the perfect opportunity to Garner some sympathy from others. She posts a lot on Facebook, but never gets a response to anything. Well, that all changed.

She was a really weird child. Looking back at it now, it's kind of obvious that she was a budding sociopath. She cares nothing for anybody but herself, not even her own children.

The best solution to dealing with her? I cut her out of my life completely. I feel bad for my nieces and nephew, but unfortunately involvement with them comes attached to her. She does nothing but leave a trail of tears and destruction wherever she goes.

by Anonymousreply 263December 8, 2019 5:35 AM

R263, I'm sorry and wish I could give you a hug. Sorry I can't hug and help her innocent children. RFK and others tried to do that. He was taken before I was born. There are mentally ill people in this country who require psychiatric treatment and medication, which just aren't available in the USA. Peace.

by Anonymousreply 264December 8, 2019 5:54 AM

[QUOTE] First, unless you are a licensed medical professional, you are not permitted to diagnose other's problems!

The sheer irony of this statement coming from you, OP - you do nothing but diagnose everyone in your life who you don't like as a Cluster Fucking B.

by Anonymousreply 265December 8, 2019 12:52 PM

I once knew a narcissist who, every time they got called out for their shitty behavior, would tell a sob story about how they had Aspergers. I know a lot of people with Aspergers who might awkward and not get a lot of social cues, but they're not monsters like this person was and is.

by Anonymousreply 266December 8, 2019 5:56 PM

R266, Asperger Syndrome is not a genuine diagnosis. Asperger Syndrome was removed from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 2013. If you have questions this information, please ask any licensed psychologist or psychiatrist or contact of the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).

by Anonymousreply 267December 8, 2019 6:01 PM

R266, regardless of where Asperbergers is in DSM: I get what you’re saying.

A true Cluster B doesn’t care; they’re just looking for an “out” on how they behave/treat people.

by Anonymousreply 268December 9, 2019 2:20 AM

[quote] It’s very easy to take down a narcissist. You have to continuously, relentlessly campaign against them. Trash them non stop, gaslight, gray rock and never ever get caught. It’s hard to do, and you need solid allies to do it but it can be done.

All THAT, just over not being invited to a party?

Get a life.

by Anonymousreply 269December 16, 2019 3:10 AM

On the twelfth day of Christmas

The manic OP gave to me

Twelve Clusters Clustering

Eleven dysfunctional families

Ten unqualified doctors

Nine gift registeries

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven flying monkeys

Six healthy boundaries

Five grey rocks

Four sociopaths

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 270December 16, 2019 3:12 AM

When to Use the Gray Rock Method

When dealing with malignant narcissists, psychopaths, sociopaths, borderlines, drama queens, stalkers and other emotional vampires, it’s commonly advised that no response is the best response to unwanted attention. This is often true and No Contact (the avoidance of all communication) should be used whenever possible.

There are some situations however, when No Contact is not feasible, as in when you share child custody with a psychopath. As another example, if you are being stalked by an ex, a restraining order can infuriate the unwanted suitor, and refusing to respond to him or her is seen as an insult. They might become convinced that they can MAKE you respond and in that way satiate their need for power over you.

Furthermore, many of us have tried to end a relationship with a psychopath several times, only to take them back, each time. They turned on the pity ploy and the charm, and because we didn’t understand that this is what a psychopath does, we fell for their promises to change. They know all of our emotional hooks. For them, it’s easy and fun to lure us back by appealing to our emotions. But a psychopath can’t change. In fact, when you leave a psychopath, he becomes determined to punish you even more severely for thinking you could be autonomous.

Even if we don’t take them back, the most dangerous time for a person is when they first break up with a psychopath. The psychopath feels rage at being discarded. Losing control or power over a person is not just a narcissistic injury for them; they feel profoundly empty when their partner leaves them — even if they had intended to kill their partner. The reason is because they have lost control. Psychopaths need to feel in control at all times.

For all these situations, we have the Gray Rock Method.

What it is: THROW HUGE GREY ROCKS AT THE PSYCHOPATH'S HEAD

by Anonymousreply 271December 16, 2019 3:20 AM

Twelve emotional vampires

Eleven dysfunctional families

Ten unqualified doctors

Nine gift registries

Eight Red Flag Warnings

Seven flying monkeys

Six healthy boundaries

Five grey rocks

Four sociopaths

Three French narcs

Two psychopaths

And a whole host of Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 272December 16, 2019 3:21 AM

they attack the vulnerable. Children, widows on christmas, countries being attack, people who are are allies.

by Anonymousreply 273December 20, 2019 3:59 AM

Narcs attack whole countries? op, you are a paranoid spaz, aren't you? definitely mentally ill

by Anonymousreply 274December 20, 2019 4:13 AM

Obviously R274's physician has not been successful to date adjusting the medications.

R273, you are correct. It's all about the power.

by Anonymousreply 275December 20, 2019 4:19 AM

they attack the vulnerable.

*Children in the care of the USA.

*Ukraine, and other countries (people) struggling or fighting for democracy (hong kong)

*Peoples experiencing Genocide (Yemeni and Kurds).

by Anonymousreply 276December 20, 2019 4:24 AM

I was removed from seeing my narcissist a while back.. Ironically, it wasn't even my choice.

Later, I was having dinner with a pal who said he'd run into him and that he (the narcissist) was mean to him; later, my pal committed suicide.

If I ever see the narcissist again I want to say to him: you were an ass to someone who killed himself; how does that make you feel?

But, of course, they feel nothing.

by Anonymousreply 277December 20, 2019 4:30 AM

R273/R276, you raise very valid points, but the focus of this thread is not political agendas. It is, as individuals, how do we recognize and cope with these types. They can and will destroy your life just for shit and giggles.

by Anonymousreply 278December 20, 2019 4:34 AM

Some spaz has come on and tried to make it ALL about Trump, like they do on every single thread.

This thread is about:

Emotional vampires

Fake doctors

Seeing children on their own at Christmas

Not letting narcs destroy developing countries

Being careful not to get attacked by flying monkeys

Removing the gaslighting sociopath from your salad

Watching out for the psychopathic Christmas present

by Anonymousreply 279December 20, 2019 4:52 AM

R276, I fully agree with your post with one possible exception. From my professional career I'm aware that Yemen was a "no fly zone" with restricted airspace since before I was born. I'm unable to keep abreast of international affairs as in the past. So I assume the situation is that Yemeni people are poor, oppressed and enslaved and therefore have no control whatsoever that their country is controlled by a dictatorship. Yemen's leaders are nasty and evil.

About this thread's topic, I'll share that I have several stalkers who use The DL, which identifies registered users by credit card info and probably shares that with certain special individuals. Multiple users have confided that certain DL users are targeted and/or tracked and there are paid trolls who incite division and controversy. Two of my stalkers have in common the problem of alcohol abuse; one has a boyfriend who's batshit crazy. One guy claims stalking is only when someone does that situationally/in person, which is incorrect. He's been doing that intermittently since 1998. Mental health problems affect at least 20% of Americans. Mental health care and medications are expensive and often difficult to obtain n the USA.

If you have an emotional problem, be an adult, own it and go to the proper psychologist or psychiatrist for treatment and recover as I did. I did not permit one functional alcoholic relative and being diddled long-term (partially related to the Catholic Church) destroy my life. I'm not damaged goods due to sexual abuse as a child. I've never had an STD. Stop trying to control me and interfere with my life. People know you're sick. Stay away and get help.

From a recent meme: Nobody is responsible for the wrongs done to them as a child, but every adult is responsible for making them right.

by Anonymousreply 280December 20, 2019 5:28 AM

R280, is one of your stalkers the Spaz Troll?

by Anonymousreply 281December 21, 2019 9:32 AM

R281 Honestly don't know because I don't who/what the "Spaz Troll" is. Care to educate me, please?

R280

by Anonymousreply 282December 21, 2019 10:37 AM

Here's a thread about the annoying Spaz Troll

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 283December 21, 2019 9:03 PM

R283 thanks

by Anonymousreply 284December 21, 2019 9:39 PM

R283 LOL that fucker must be a Spaz if he's obsessed with Harry Styles!

by Anonymousreply 285December 21, 2019 9:42 PM

This thread started off interesting and then degenerated into some paranoid autist repeating himself again and again...

by Anonymousreply 286December 21, 2019 11:42 PM

Oh, Cluster B, oh Cluster B

How lovely are your branches!

by Anonymousreply 287December 23, 2019 12:31 PM

'I was removed from seeing my narcissist a while back.. Ironically, it wasn't even my choice.

Later, I was having dinner with a pal who said he'd run into him and that he (the narcissist) was mean to him; later, my pal committed suicide.'

Jesus, you and your friends are a bunch of weak livered pussies. I hope for your sake you are spazzy women and not men.

by Anonymousreply 288December 24, 2019 1:34 AM

R288 I get part of your point, but today's world is full of sick, twisted jerks. As there are international users here, i'm in the USA. In the 1960s, the ACLU and Republicans got together to shut down all government-funded mental health facilities. ACLU's argument was people with mental problems should be at home with loved ones. People that ill should be in a hospital, rest home, or halfway house. Today, they're homeless and on our streets. BTW, i'm an ACLU member.

The licensed mental health professionals i've consulted advised that 80% of USA's homeless have mental health problems and at least 20% of Americans have them.. USA does not have national health care. Mental health care and medication for it are expensive. On this site, an older man said weed and abusing RX drugs are the "only health care options" for his generation. WTF?

I'm single w/one relative who loves me and who's 1500 miles away. Doing my best to maintain sanity coping with abusive relatives who owe me money and have spent a lifetime as alcoholics who abuse drugs and support the GOP. One is bipolar and won't get help. My former psychiatrist (who i no longer need) offered free treatment, which was rejected. That explains my proper perspective that the world is out of order and your reply that people are "weak livered pussies" is BULLSHIT. Happy holidays.

by Anonymousreply 289December 24, 2019 7:01 PM

R288, thanks for your concern. I'll try to be more of a dick moving forward.

Too bad my pal didn't get your sage advice before he hung himself.

by Anonymousreply 290December 25, 2019 2:00 AM

Ugh. So I found out that the narcissist I was involved with and later dumped by, is hitting on someone else. At first I felt a pang of sadness that he moved on, but then I felt sorry for the new object of his "desire". I know what he's going to go through and he wouldn't believe me if I warned him to step away and he would just think that I was jealous and the narcissist would think I wanted him back. This person just getting back in the dating scene after breaking up with his partner of 5 years, so he's vulnerable and easy pickings. I know how far a little charm and attention can go. Sigh. Rinse, lather and repeat.

by Anonymousreply 291January 4, 2020 4:59 PM

Perfect description of the (most) Bisexuals.

by Anonymousreply 292January 4, 2020 5:06 PM

R291, people tried to warn me. I wouldn't listen.

"I'll be different"

You have to learn the hard way.

by Anonymousreply 293January 5, 2020 1:55 AM

*bump*

So much good in this thread!

by Anonymousreply 294February 4, 2020 3:59 AM

Cut them off, honey. There is no way to "deal with" those types, they are forces of destruction that can not be changed. The best thing you can do is rid yourself of them.

by Anonymousreply 295February 4, 2020 4:01 AM

R19 That's fascinating. Do you have further info/sources about that?

by Anonymousreply 296February 4, 2020 4:18 AM

I've met a lot of assholes, but none that I recognized as a narcisist. But I mostly ignore people, unless I can use them to get something I want.

by Anonymousreply 297February 4, 2020 4:31 AM

Jeez. This thread is off the chain.

These people are easy to spot. The one thing they have in common is that their needs always come first. It’s all about THEM, not you.

Some are really good at hiding it. I met one recently, who I must take my hat off to, because as highly perceptive as I am, I was unclear about what I was dealing with, and my vision was was askew.

That said, even the best of them fuck up, eventually. They cannot help it, because they’re arrogant. Not to be confused with confident, just plain old arrogant. Arrogant people make mistakes.

All it took was one small, tiny observation from me, & suddenly, boom. I found the missing puzzle parts.

I’m a very open person. I should know better by now, and I do, but I still cannot help myself entirely. I go into almost all situations, expecting the best. Having my guard up 24/7, is exhausting, and no way to live. Just like Mulder, I want to believe; ya know? Jaded is a lot of work. And it’s not the true me, inside. That’s not what drives me or motivates me. I like laughter, joy, hugs, and sweetness. I’m not ashamed of that. And I want to keep those parts of me intact, because those parts, are the real me.

It sucks when people see that, and build bullshit agendas around it. But they do, and will. If it feels wrong, drop it. Let it go, and move on.

Sociopaths and narcissists are really damned good at fooling people, and I promise you that it’s extremely prudent to step away and move on, because if they cannot fool you, you will become the target of everyone else that they’ve managed to fool.

Not worth my sanity, sobriety, or time.

Healthy people, who are not perfect, but genuinely kind and decent, exist. I’d even wager to say that they’re abundant, in comparison to those who are their complete opposites.

Find them. They will love you. They will surround you, and they will genuinely care.

by Anonymousreply 298February 4, 2020 4:50 AM

R298, what was the little tip-off?

I’ve learned that the best way to spot one of these people is to observe my own behavior. I’m a weak people-pleaser, so when I start doing certain things in response to them, it’s a red flag. It’s hard to explain, but it’s a little early-warning device I’ve developed.

by Anonymousreply 299February 4, 2020 6:04 PM

Lots of tips offs. One is they are charismatic schmoozers, like a game show host.

by Anonymousreply 300February 4, 2020 8:45 PM

I think R298 makes a great point. These people aren't confident. They're arrogant. I've known many confident people who have been confused for being narcissists and it drives me nuts, because they're usually lovely people. Just because they know they're great at something doesn't mean they suffer from this. They can still admit their faults while acknowledging that they might do one or two things incredibly well.

The true narcissists just expect you to believe they do everything brilliantly even if they're actually awful at them.

Working in the entertainment industry, I see this a lot. The true narcissists are usually the divas who want that beautiful co-star's lines reduced or who want everything retooled for them. It's never about the quality of the show or movie, it's all about trying to make them look better. Sometimes, they'll even have casting approval and get less attractive or less talented people hired as their co-stars so that they'll, somehow, end up being the highlight of the show. It's truly insane behavior.

Confident performers don't need that. They'll go on and do the best they can and, if that turns out to not be enough to save the show, they'll acknowledge it.

by Anonymousreply 301February 4, 2020 9:12 PM

Most Cluster bs go to therapy to fix someone else, not themselves. Most often, Health Care Professionals will see cluster bs because they want their children to be fixed. These cluster b parents will gravitate to the most cruel and disciplinary parenting methods. They exhibit no empathy, just cruelty.

Another red flag is the parent(s) say their children is extreme, has the most extreme aspect of a medical/mental health condition. When you look at who is treating the child, it is not a leading expert in this medical specialty. For instance, the kids has an extreme mental health condition, but they are taking that kid to a cheap PCP or a spiritual counselor. Often, they use terminology in correctly.

These are all clear signs that this parent is a Abusive parent. Unfortunately, there are people and cults that will help enable the abuse. Sometimes, these people are abusing the child also.

by Anonymousreply 302February 11, 2020 12:40 AM

[r289] those long term hospitals were shut down do to extreme abusive and barbaric practice. This is so vile and disgusting.

You can treat medical conditions.

Red Flag: when you are punished for having a medical condition. Or you hear people speaking about this. People who want to hurt people, dehumanize or seems sympathetic to known-abusers. These people are clearly SOCIOPATHS.

by Anonymousreply 303February 11, 2020 2:45 AM

I used to have a boss that was a sociopath I think. She grew up in a screwed up family and was abused growing up so I think that made her the way she was. She was not a successful person and just worked in retail management but seemed to actually believe she was better than those who worked beneath her. She was sloppy and not well put together and had a habit of picking an unlucky employee of the moment to target and she’d somehow always get the rest of the staff to target this person too. She didn’t want anyone to quit though just stay and be bullied. When somebody had had enough and finally quit she’d get angry. I worked with her for four years and noticed a trail of broken friendships and people she had used and tossed aside. She was completely unqualified for her job and got it by kissing ass.

by Anonymousreply 304April 17, 2020 5:52 AM

About Cluster B personality disorders not much is known scientifically. Both how to measure and study these people with these disorders, and also how to treat it effectively. This is why there are so many bogus and pseudo-psychology (pop psychology) you tube videos and blogs about it.

Also, Empathetic parenting, teaching and childhood educational programs (sesame street to Roots and Chutes) are severely underfunded. These programs increase empathy. You can see these programs as prevention of these serious personality disorder (lack of empathy).

by Anonymousreply 305April 17, 2020 1:12 PM

What are some good books on sociopaths?

by Anonymousreply 306April 17, 2020 1:22 PM

R306 "Green Eggs & Ham" Rose.

Ernest Goes To Jail

Dorf On Golf

by Anonymousreply 307April 19, 2020 2:41 AM

For Novels:

Gone Girl

White Oleander

I do not think there is a good textbook/non fiction on this. At least, I have not found one yet. There is not really good research being done. Because of this, there is so much pseudo-science and con artists.

This are empathy disorders and research on empathy is not being funded.

by Anonymousreply 308April 19, 2020 5:17 PM

r306, you might want to take a look at these books:

Psychopath Free

In Sheep's Clothing

The Sociopath Next Door

But there is also plenty of good info on YT:

Dr. Ramani

Ross Rosenberg

by Anonymousreply 309April 19, 2020 6:03 PM

you could watch the movie, mommie dearest. Also, you could help her poor daughter out and purchase her book. It is a DL fave, as well. Welcome to the club.

by Anonymousreply 310April 21, 2020 7:51 PM

They believe their cold, pronounced lack of sympathy and empathy somehow makes them cool badass gangsters. Sadly, their admirers agree.

Many narco/sociopaths lack one or more of the big three essentials, spirit, soul or personality. Some are merely awake without a true consciousness behind the wakeful state; only a faint blip on the radar.

A lot of them will get into relationships just for the sake of proving a petty point. Plenty of them have relationships that last five days tops, because of the shallow reasons they enter those relationships.

Most of them are jealously callous towards cute animals, if not downright cruel. This is because they're attracted to the animal and want to make it seem that the attraction is the animal's fault rather than theirs.

They expect others to entertain them, and if you don't oblige, they haughtily and loudly leave to make sure you *know* you fucked up by refusing to play court jester.

Basically they're exhausting cunts of the highest order. They try to dominate others by sulking, placing ridiculous expectations on people and prancing off to find new disciples if their tactics don't work.

by Anonymousreply 311April 21, 2020 8:10 PM

You have to figure out the best way to get him to leave you alone...for me it was to lead him to believe there was something wrong with me and that there was nothing wrong with anything about him (over the years I knew him I realized how important not being found at fault was to him. He did a supreme job of parroting support for the value of being self critical and admitting guilt, but those admissions never materialized, not even in trivial matters). In his worldview me being completely at fault and broken made sense, and he told me he didn’t need the drama and I never heard from him again. I was surprised how quickly and completely it worked, but honestly it was such a relief.

by Anonymousreply 312April 21, 2020 8:37 PM

Truth be told, sociopaths are utterly unremarkable in bed, even if they think the world of you and put on their best performance.

by Anonymousreply 313April 21, 2020 10:35 PM

r312

You are correct, you have to make them uninterested in you which is a form of "gray rocking" Offer up nothing to stimulate or feed them (no reactions, no complimenting, be boring AF).

by Anonymousreply 314April 22, 2020 2:49 PM

Can people explain narcissist supply? Have any examples?

by Anonymousreply 315April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

Here's some info on Narcissistic Supply:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 316April 22, 2020 6:10 PM

They put people at risk, during this pandemic. They are not practicing social distancing, and put others in the communities at risk.

Sociopaths will prey on the vulnerable and the sick. You may hear people taking about doing this. You may hear people dehumanize people who are sick with covid-19 or people who are vulnerable.

by Anonymousreply 317April 24, 2020 7:41 PM

The other thing..

Sociopaths would already be doing this, before the pandemic. People targeting the sick, the vulnerable and the elderly. Putting people who are sick and immune-compromised at risk. Undermining these people's ability to get quality medical care and being safe in the community. They may also be collecting people's personal information. This is to commit scams and crimes against them.

Dehumanizing people is a very serious red flag that you are dealing with a sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 318April 24, 2020 7:49 PM

Sociopaths do not work ALONE to prey on others. This is a misnomer. They work with others to commit crimes, or just to hurt people. Cluster Bs surround themselves with very unsavory people.

Often, these groups are cults (religious) or can be family members. This is true of abusive families.

by Anonymousreply 319April 24, 2020 7:58 PM

Yep, sociopaths and the like are always surrounded by their loyal flying monkeys who do a lot of their dirty work for them.

by Anonymousreply 320April 24, 2020 8:07 PM

Why are so many YouToob videos so freaking long? I do not want to listen to somebody's poorly edited 27-minute monologue about narcissistic supply a la R316. Edit, people. That video could easily be under 10 minutes and convey the same quality and amount of information.

by Anonymousreply 321April 24, 2020 8:25 PM

Think of all those staff at nursing homes, where mortality rates are off the charts. Not just the owners, but the staff too. Also, the social workers and county oversight workers that are suppose to report them, if there was any sign of mistreatment. This includes under-reporting and not treating Respiratory Infections. Remember, they were saying it was Pneumonia. You have to treat patients with pneumonia too. My governor is so very upset at nursing homes and their staff. They were letting patients die. Let these places turn into petri dishes.

If a person or agency has a job working with vulnerable communities, it does not mean they are good people. There has to be oversight. People who complain about oversight or regulators, probably are committing crimes. Some financial, Some violent.

by Anonymousreply 322April 24, 2020 8:33 PM

R322, what are you going on about? What does this have to do with Cluster B crazies?

by Anonymousreply 323April 24, 2020 8:44 PM

She got lost, she thought she was in the thread about psych meds R323

by Anonymousreply 324April 24, 2020 8:47 PM

Nursing Homes were preying on the vulnerable. When our beloved elderly became sick with Covid, they were allowed to get sicker and die. They were preyed upon. The staff there saw it. If you were not a experienced pulmonologist or cardiologist, how could the staff there really help these people? They were in on it. They could have reported it. It was not just the owners.

by Anonymousreply 325April 24, 2020 8:52 PM

R319, boy is that true. My dad got involved with a woman who was an obvious psychopath.

Every single person she knew was either an ex-convict, eventually got arrested, lost their professional license due to unsavory or illegal professional activities, you name it. I met some of those people. Just frightening sociopaths themselves who would do anything to make a buck. She didn’t know anyone who was a decent person, because those people were her marks, and either she would eventually scam them if they were gullible, or they would get away from her. But the friends she did have were people she’d known for many years. All of them were operating some kind of scam.

She was always able to talk her way out of anything. She should be in jail.

by Anonymousreply 326April 24, 2020 8:54 PM

R306, Margaret Atwood’s novel “The Robber Bride” has a deliciously sociopathic antagonist, Xenia. Excellent book. I’ve read it plenty of times.

by Anonymousreply 327April 24, 2020 9:05 PM

What's another good movie like Mommy Dearest about a psycho mom and crazy abuse?

by Anonymousreply 328April 24, 2020 9:08 PM

Part 1/2: Having worked in the nursing care regulatory biz for several years, I'm going to present an alternative but not altogether reassuring counterpoint to R325 above.

It's not that everybody is malign. First of all, the official word was that there was no coronavirus in the US until at least late Jan or early Feb. It was on nobody's radar, including healthcare worker's.

Pneumonia is one of those things that hit the elderly frequently, and hard, so it wouldn't really be seen out of the ordinary if there was a pneumonia outbreak, at least not at first. It takes time for people to figure shit out and for the details to sink in. Plus, again, you had gov't and experts saying "nothing to see here."

Regarding people 'not reporting:' Reporting takes a number of forms and depends on the person reporting and why. Nursing homes most certainly don't want a bunch of their patients to die, because those living breathing headcounts are $$$$$.

Most NHs are staffed in the following manner: There is a single, maybe 2 RNs, who are in charge, usually one per shift. Patient care is done by LPNs and CNAs. There is supposed to be a strict division of labor, but in reality, duties merge and mix in unexpected and not altogether legal ways among those LPNs and CNAs. Neither of those license types has any training in diagnosis or even screening patients.

Specialty care like wounds, PT, respiratory, etc., is sometimes done in-house. But where I live, most nonroutine care is done by specialists who come in only to see particular patients. There are also subspecialty nursing homes that provide certain types of care such as feedings, respiratory therapy, etc. Medical MD care is either for acute cases, or per legal requirements based on regs. A NH patient who is medically stable may only see a doctor once every 3 to 6 months. The medical workup is perfunctory in most cases.

Routine matters - and mild to moderate respiratory illness would be seen as routine - would be handled with faxed or over the phone orders from the doc to the RN.

The RNs job again, is mostly supervisory from an admin perspective. They don't interact heavily with patients in many places. This means that they may not have the perspective of observing their patients carefully over time to realize something is seriously wrong.

Social work's role is largely with solving problems related to access to care and benefits, and dealing with crazy family members of patients. NHs are required to hire only one SW. Oftentimes this hire is a twofer, which is to say, the NH administrator is also the social worker. The SW is very beholden to their employer obvs. If the SW is an admin, then they have a heavy burden of paperwork and regulatory work; AND, they may be responsible for marketing the home to the community. Which is to say, they've very fucking busy, to the point of distraction.

by Anonymousreply 329April 24, 2020 9:56 PM

Part 2/2: Regarding complaints. If somebody saw something complaint-worthy, who would they go to? This virus showed up in a hurry and it would be regarded a medical issue. Patients would get standard care, even though this was an unusual infection - but most of us didn't realize this right away. Covid-19 killed its victims quickly, before you could take much action. Most employees probably thought it was a normal consequence of aging, getting sick and dying. Yes, there would be institutional pressure to not disclose/report at first, but it's clear that NHs were public about the problem quite early in many communities.

APS only investigates issues related to neglect or abuse. If it were medical neglect, APS would hand over the investigation to the state's regulatory boards for nursing home or medicine or whatever. The standard by which things are evaluated is the acceptable standard level of care. Lifesaving measures aren't required in most cases. Moreover, in most cases the patient has a DNR so no lifesaving efforts needed to be expended.

OK that's enough for now.

by Anonymousreply 330April 24, 2020 9:56 PM

The word Nursing is in the name,. This means that it is a medical facility. They are required by law to provide high quality medical care. Also, they must be SAFE for all the residents who live there. Also, medical facilities have to report outbreaks of infections, including pneumonia. APS Agencies, which means the employees too, are also REQUIRED by law to report to the state and federal authorities. This is regular oversight, as well as, ethics, corruption, crimes.

In this case, they are already required by law to report a heath concern and outbreak. They did not report, so this is a crime. They cannot falsify medical reports or death certificates either. Another crime. This is a very, very serious issue.

by Anonymousreply 331April 24, 2020 10:12 PM

R330, although it doesn’t have much to do with the thread topic, I appreciate your write-up.

And it makes me super glad that my mother died before we had to contemplate a nursing home (not that she’d have gone without handcuffs and much force). And I’ll kill myself before I go to one.

by Anonymousreply 332April 24, 2020 10:13 PM

[quote] The word Nursing is in the name,. This means that it is a medical facility.

I imagine there are additional criteria.

by Anonymousreply 333April 24, 2020 10:25 PM

If you are not registering your facility properly, or misinforming your residents, this is also a CRIME.

by Anonymousreply 334April 24, 2020 10:33 PM

I thought the whole point of a local APS staff is to monitor these facilities because the family member is not there, with them. They serve a local oversight/reporting role. They report to the state. This is the WHOLE POINT of the program.

by Anonymousreply 335April 24, 2020 10:36 PM

These programs and services do not seem to be working. If they cannot get that there is an outbreak (because they're stupid), then what is the point? Most Americans can figure out when someone they know is sick. These people are suppose to be trained. It's so appalling. These people are either cold blooded criminals or have a below human level intelligence.

by Anonymousreply 336April 24, 2020 10:45 PM

Actually, mammals are more intelligent and empathetic then these people. I do not want to offend the animals by comparing them to sociopaths.

by Anonymousreply 337April 24, 2020 10:49 PM

R335 and the other banshee screeching posts on here are fucking nuts. Most of what she and it is she says makes little sense. There was no deliberate conspiracy to deny care or to provide substandard care. Nobody knew exactly what this Covfefe-19 was until a bunch of people quickly died. To this day we're still trying to figure out the best care for people with severe CV19. The oversight measures that currently exist for NHs are mostly effective for anything short of an unusual outbreak of a heretofore unknown viral illness. My state recently had a nursing home scandal, and responsible parties were brought to justice over it.

by Anonymousreply 338April 24, 2020 11:02 PM

They actively manipulate you to alienate you from your family and your life. This is a learned strategy that they use. This is common in cults and religious groups, but can be another type of group. If you are dating someone who bad mouths your family members, do not marry, get animals or have children with them. This is a big red flag.

Remember, a sane adult can have their own friends, hobbies and social activities. They do not have to deal with your family members that often. Causing problems with family members, this is a big red flag.

by Anonymousreply 339April 24, 2020 11:08 PM

They do not get along with people and cause so much chaos, crazy and harm. If you have children with them, there will be a long line of destroyed relationships with family members and friends that your children depend on. This is unsafe and is extremely emotionally damaging to children. Animals are not safe either.

by Anonymousreply 340April 24, 2020 11:19 PM

Cluster bs seem to self destruct when they have children.

They cruelly see animals as temporary accessories. They do not treat them as members of their family. They may tell you this. Remember, animals (pets) are pretty much dependent on their human caregivers.

The hope is that you can see the early signs before it gets to this.

by Anonymousreply 341April 24, 2020 11:27 PM

Sociopaths just do not like a person for whatever reason, they despise them. It is really out of control. It is like they are addicted to hating people, or hurting their particular victim. They also despise your children and your animals. Yes, your children and animals are in serious danger.

by Anonymousreply 342April 24, 2020 11:36 PM

They have what we call,, a Parasitic Relationship with their children, and even grandchildren.

If they have money, they do not provide for them. No allowance, No financial help, No college, no nest egg, even if they have the means to take care of them. They may lie to their children about their financial worth to achieve this type of cruelty. It is just so sick.

If they have no money, they require their children to take care of them. In addition to provided for them in some aspect, you may have to pay for legal issues, IRS issues that they cause. Lots of problems. You never can do enough.

If you have children, they basically want you to spend on them, instead of providing for your own children. They are basically stealing from their grandchildren. If they live long enough, they prey on their own grandchildren.

by Anonymousreply 343April 25, 2020 12:28 AM

What if they were bad at managing money and withheld money from children out of spite?

by Anonymousreply 344April 25, 2020 1:09 AM

I’m pretty sure my late mother was a borderline. She had callings-out with everyone. I don’t think she meant to alienate us from our family, which is HUGE. She had four siblings, and my father was one of six (although most of his family was overseas). By the time I was 13, we weren’t speaking to anyone on either side of our family. Her MO was “it’s just the three of us against the world” and “no one loves you like I do”. She was very careful with her money, however and did spend it on us and never on herself. (Which she used to make herself a martyr.)

I don’t think she ever really schemed against anyone. She was very kind to animals and was wild about gardening and the environment. She really did try to figure it all out because she knew she was difficult. I have met other people like this, and they are aware of their issues. They just cannot help themselves. It’s best to be able to recognize them and keep a distance.

by Anonymousreply 345April 25, 2020 1:21 AM

we think that borderlines have empathy. They have emotional regulation and judgement issues, especially regrading romantic relationships. Thank you for sharing the experience with your late mother. I do not think they belong in this category.

Also, BDP can be treated outpatient with a great team. They need access to in-patient care, especially short term. Also, their children need to have some care and support too. The whole mental health and support system hurt you too, as they did your mother. So sorry for you Lost.

wishing you healing and light!

by Anonymousreply 346April 25, 2020 2:00 AM

Women tend to be a little more crazy because their world is crazy. They have never been President, it's a big deal when a female leads a hero movie, they're hardly in STEM fields, the list goes on.

Then when they don't get it right with their children, their one chance for happiness in a man dominated world, they go crazy. They can't climb the stripper poles so they don't have that. They turn to alcohol, food, drugs.

If they don't have a good family, good stability keeping them afloat, or some type of job to put themselves into, buffering that stress it can be really hard.

by Anonymousreply 347April 25, 2020 4:42 AM

Sorry, Melania, you’re on your own.

by Anonymousreply 348April 25, 2020 3:49 PM

They cannot be bothered taking care of their own children. If you do not want to nurture and protect your children; during a crisis, during a pandemic, I mean this is the clearest fucking sign there is.

by Anonymousreply 349April 26, 2020 7:07 PM

In lieu of providing little Timmy with medical doctors or tutors, mommy and daddy needs a vacay. Instagraming their cruelty is the dead give away.

If Cluster Bs have children, they talk this this. Do this kind of shit. Also, you can see that there are social groups and industries that carter to child-abusing cunts..

by Anonymousreply 350April 26, 2020 7:13 PM

They have extreme beliefs, views and actions that they are incapable with other people, science and democracy. Often, cluster bs flock to a cults (religious), but can be another sort of group. They are not acting alone. Cults do all the cluster b strategies, they radicalize and alienate.

Kids who have to be in the same religion of their parents. This is a red flag. Very undemocratic.

Also, people getting more extreme over the years, and join extreme cults and religious groups, another big red flag.

by Anonymousreply 351April 26, 2020 10:08 PM

R328 Gypsy is another great movie/play about a crazy mom who abuses her daughters. Would we categorize Mama Rose as a narcissist? She can be charming, but she's also so incredibly selfish and unfeeling about what other people are feeling and going through.

Also, the movie Carrie where the lead's mother is an abusive religious nutcase.

by Anonymousreply 352April 26, 2020 10:34 PM

Not sure about sociopath's in bed, but my ex narc was still the best fuck of my life. Maybe it was more that our bodies seemed built for one another, but I've never enjoyed sex more than when I was with him. That's probably why I stuck around for as long as I did.

by Anonymousreply 353April 26, 2020 10:35 PM

Red Flag is a man who wants to hurt his sister(s) or LGBT family members. They often bad mouth them first. So this is the earliest sign you'll get.

This is common in religious groups or anti democracy groups. Also, Common in undemocratic countries, such as Theocracies, Fascism, Authoritarian Police State type of government.

by Anonymousreply 354April 26, 2020 11:20 PM

If they do not like someone, they go out of their way to go where they are. And they cause trouble. We tell people to stop going there.

Cluster bs cannot calm down. They will avoid these rules, which just decreases any problems. They get more and more enraged at the person, that they are clearly targeting. More rage, more plots and more schemes. Also, another red flag is that they speak very violently or cruelty about them. However, they have minimum to no more in person contact. No more drama to fuel this.

It is inside of them. It really has nothing to do with the other person at all. They are being targeted and stalked.

Also, this is a good way to spot the other sociopaths in the group, often called flying monkeys by abuse survivors. Sociopaths do not act alone.

by Anonymousreply 355April 26, 2020 11:32 PM

I fear when the social distancing and stay at home order are lifted, these cluster bs will have so much built up rage that people will get seriously hurt. Right now, crimes are down. zero tolerance policies with state oversight.

by Anonymousreply 356April 26, 2020 11:42 PM

I had red flags and ignored them and I really had no idea what NPD was. The guy told me when he was younger he used to hit himself and give himself marks and then blame his brother. He also was a love bomber at first. There were always problems with his exes...they didn't show him enough attention, they were crazy, they did not tell him he looked good. Yep. narcissist.

by Anonymousreply 357April 27, 2020 9:59 AM

As ever with these threads, none of you have any experience with a true narcissist, sociopath or psychopath. You're just telling the story of people who acted in a way you didn't like. I bet after seeing Sybil everyone you'd ever met had multiple personality disorder.

Grow the fuck up, you morons.

by Anonymousreply 358April 27, 2020 10:04 AM

I believe that too, R356. In fact, all personalities that crave socialization are going to be a handfull after lockdown. I'm grateful that I won't have to start work right away (my company is closed until mid-June).

by Anonymousreply 359April 27, 2020 1:10 PM

R357 Yep. Self-harm and blame somebody else. As crazy as it sounds, this behaviour exists.

by Anonymousreply 360April 27, 2020 1:11 PM

dramatic break ups full of hate is not a good sign. Sane people are not really attracted to cluster bs. Maybe you can be fooled once, but every single time?

by Anonymousreply 361April 27, 2020 8:28 PM

Anyone else?

by Anonymousreply 362April 30, 2020 12:53 AM

R35 Growing up, my brother used to do that and blame it on our sister.

by Anonymousreply 363April 30, 2020 1:35 AM

I heard a Rumor. The republicans were planning a big attack against teachers and public schools. Spent a lot of money for this. Now, they cannot do this because the schools are closed. Parents are expected to be parents and do educational activities for their children. This ties into MoscowMitch (Senate Majority Leader, Republican) into saying that the states should go bankrupt.

Department of Education is going to have to fund Mainstreaming Labs in core skills: Reading, Math, Science and Writing, aka STEM. Stem Experts want this done anyway. Scientists and Medical Doctors come from the middle/lower SES because they value education. I think most STEM University Professors and the graduate students will want to do this. Internet and Public Access is free, no need to use private software. You are talking about curriculum (labs) and Stem teacher delivery these core skills sets. With Stem we are taking about proven skill set mastery, not just multiple choice testing. This is another private sector con and a gigantic waste of money.

by Anonymousreply 364April 30, 2020 9:27 PM

R364 are you in the wrong thread?

by Anonymousreply 365April 30, 2020 10:02 PM

Are you on the right thread R364?

by Anonymousreply 366April 30, 2020 10:08 PM

There are several R364-type comments in this thread. I'm trying to figure out what the game is. Clearly they're up to something in here. Somebody should block them and see what other posts they make, might be interesting. I have to go cook some dinner.

by Anonymousreply 367May 1, 2020 1:04 AM

'Yes, your children and animals are in serious danger.'

You are confused between a narcissist and a psychopath, dummy. Narcs can become very attached to their own pets, who offer unconditional devotion.

by Anonymousreply 368May 1, 2020 1:09 AM

An important difference here...

Some People seek medical treatment for their medical conditions and get help. So with Cluster Bs (empathy disorders) this would mean helping increase empathy and self reflection, so they can have a good life, and stay in treatment and treat others well. Probably, not have children or animals. They do not like nurturing, and even with treatment can become abusive and dangerous.

Abusive families hurt children and animals. They subject their children and animals to violence, and this has serious consequences for them. They surround themselves with other cluster bs, and some are very dangerous. These people are called flying monkeys in abuse survivor literature.

Flying Monkeys can be religious members, social workers, police officers and even so called mental health professionals. They can be paid to do the abusive parents bidding. Or they can be just dangerous people who want to hurt children and animals. Also, abusive parents tend to come from abuse too, so they have other extended family members that condone or encourage violent and abusive behavior. Also, they can be conducting extremely vile criminal behavior, the worse of the worst.

by Anonymousreply 369May 1, 2020 11:17 PM

Remember, when parents and children come to therapy. The parents receive parenting skills and oversight. The kids get play therapy, regular socialization with peers, and learning is fun.

Abusive parents will seek out co abusers, when they seek therapy or other services for their children. They will bad mouth their child, undermind their ability to express their emotions, their ideas, etc and suppress/punish fun. Disturbing, there is a pro-abuse industry to carter to abusive parents, and also people who are abusive to animals and children. It is fucking vile out there. So you need to be aware of the signs.

by Anonymousreply 370May 1, 2020 11:29 PM

Pro abuse industry that caters to parents? I know there are bad mental health workers out there, but an industry that is organized to abuse? R370 ?

by Anonymousreply 371May 2, 2020 12:21 AM

R371 I can only guess they mean when pyschologists and psychiatrists started medicating kids with antipsychotics for stuff like oppositional defiant disorder. Which is basically just medicating and punishing kids and teens for behaving their age especially because their brains haven't fully developed yet.

It's definitely one of the more large scale examples of it psychiatric abuse and it was bad enough that there are psychiatrists who openly are against what their field is doing.

Even if that's not what that person meant then I can definitely see what they mean about pro abuse caterers. Therapy for kids is often unhelpful because if the parents are the problem (which is often the case) then the parents don't want to hear that which leads to kids being taken out of therapy because their parents don't want to pay to hear that. So you have therapists who are focused on what the parents want.

This has actually been going on since the start of the field and had effected which techniques they use, this is why psychology/psychiatry often doesn't focus on solving problems so when a kid has a external problem, therapy often isn't about fixing the problem but about changing how that kid feels about the problem or how that kid reacts to the problem.

Therapy is great but it's much more useful for adults, a lot of the kids in therapy right now would be better off with social workers.

by Anonymousreply 372May 2, 2020 12:48 AM

Do you mean the Church, R370? Any Church?

by Anonymousreply 373May 2, 2020 11:46 AM

I suspect people who fall for exciting narcissists probably had seriously boring and vanilla upbringings

by Anonymousreply 374May 2, 2020 4:15 PM

Cluster Bs ID Time:

This is the time in the pandemic that most people are use to the social distancing/Public Health measures; and of course they are doing this to protect not only themselves, but others. We understand that some families/people have been hit harder with Covid 19 than others. And out country is mourning.

Sociopaths and Cluster Bs have little to no empathy. They are upset that the focus is on others, and not them. Social Distancing and stay at home measures have limit their ability to reek havoc on other people destroying their lives. So now, the Cluster Bs will begin acting out: full of rage, full of drama, full of violence.

More sinister, the sociopaths will begin violence and crimes against others. For them, they are pressure cookers of scams, chaos, crimes and violence. They haven't been able to do these heinous activities and this is what they feed off of. So they are going off.

I fear they are going to be going off. there will be violence and crimes. More problems in the community, especially for the most vulnerable people.

by Anonymousreply 375May 3, 2020 11:39 PM

"Sociopaths, Narcissist, the cluster Bs: Do you have have tips to help with these..."

Strychnine. Thalium if you want to watch them suffer...but what would that say about you?

by Anonymousreply 376May 3, 2020 11:48 PM

It’s best to avoid them altogether. If you find you’ve become involved with one, leave now and never look back. It will only get worse, not better.

by Anonymousreply 377May 4, 2020 12:33 AM

Agree. Leave, if you can. They'll try to stop you - ignore them. They'll stalk you and threaten you - save their texts and call the police. Never return their calls, never go back. These people never get better.

by Anonymousreply 378May 4, 2020 1:32 AM

Agree with r378, never return their calls. Do Not Respond in any way, if you respond, even negatively it fuels them to keep going. No Contact, No Contact, No Contact, can't emphasize that enough.

by Anonymousreply 379May 4, 2020 1:37 AM

cluster bs go to where their victim is. Court systems should be involve to prevent this as soon as possible. There is evidence that cluster bs with little empathy do stop the bad behavior, if they are told to and the situation is monitored by the court.

Do not go it alone if there are a group of cluster bs or an abusive family. Get the family court involved, ASAP. If there is one cluster b in your mist, there are many.

by Anonymousreply 380May 4, 2020 1:47 AM

Normal people love to help people. They enjoy nurturing. Nurturing makes them feel good. Cluster bs have little to no empathy, so they loathe it.

by Anonymousreply 381May 4, 2020 3:44 AM

this is the sign we are looking at with parents.

by Anonymousreply 382May 4, 2020 3:46 AM

R256 Thank you!

It's almost like the dreaded cootie cluster B's are the people doing the attacking.

by Anonymousreply 383May 5, 2020 7:01 AM

Ignore. Don't get defensive. Don't explain yourself or respond to their goading. Remember that attack is the best defence. Narcissists can't survive without attention. And run like hell.

by Anonymousreply 384May 5, 2020 12:18 PM

Kill them before they kill you.

by Anonymousreply 385May 5, 2020 12:21 PM

Kill them before they kill you.

by Anonymousreply 386May 5, 2020 12:22 PM

Kill them before they kill you.

by Anonymousreply 387May 5, 2020 12:22 PM

the sociopath next door

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 388May 6, 2020 7:08 AM

I wondered what was going on. There seem to be a lot of peculiarly written and rather pointless posts in this thread, for reasons I don't understand. I blocked one of them, R380 for example, and discovered this singular troll account has posted at least 106 comments to this thread. I think I know who it is. Flabbergasted.

by Anonymousreply 389May 8, 2020 10:22 PM

[quote] I think it's because there are a lot of these people,

There really aren’t

[quote] we want tips, strategies

Stay away from mentally ill people. That’s the only tip. Strategy - remove yourself from the presence of a mentally ill person & go elsewhere.

That’s it. The fact that you keep asking (and you repeatedly do) means you refuse to take the advice of others

So. Stop. Fucking. Asking

by Anonymousreply 390May 8, 2020 11:41 PM

[R389]

Why are Dlers engaging in this thread? Because they are sharing their experiences and expertise. It is right there in the Original Post.

Stalking is a Cluster B trait. Just saying.

by Anonymousreply 391May 9, 2020 12:21 AM

[quote] If there is one cluster b in your mist, there are many.

Are you 10 years old?

by Anonymousreply 392May 9, 2020 2:56 AM

all these "Karens" are most probably Cluster Bs.

by Anonymousreply 393May 13, 2020 12:31 AM

I am concern about all those sociopaths and NPDs, who are ticking time bombs. They need a victim to feed their supply. They have not had one during the shelter in place orders. People are going to get hurt.

Also, I am concern about all those people complaining that they deserve special treatment because they are the HEROs. They want the special treatment over the vulnerable.

I am deeply frightened about those movements against Democracy and Empathy, and also movements that are against patients with covid, the vulnerable, and the sick. This is a deeply terrible turn of events.

Moreover, many of the cluster b empathy disordered people are working in government, or in programs and services. So the people there to help us, especially the vulnerable, are the very ones you have to AVOID to protect yourself.

by Anonymousreply 394May 13, 2020 12:41 AM

R10 probably because a lot of people here actually have a cluster B disorder. A lot of the comments I see sound like either a narcissist, or somebody suffering from antisocial personality disorder wrote them.

by Anonymousreply 395May 13, 2020 12:43 AM

Any tips, red flags and first hand experiences with the Cluster Bs (empathy disorders)? This is the Thread for you.

by Anonymousreply 396May 13, 2020 1:38 AM

Just stay away from them and let some other poor schmuck get stuck dealing with them. It's the only way.

by Anonymousreply 397May 13, 2020 1:43 AM

what if you are the poor schmuck?

by Anonymousreply 398May 13, 2020 5:51 AM

RUN R398. They're poison.

by Anonymousreply 399May 13, 2020 3:27 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!