Well, it’s confirmed Whitney was a bisexual

Lovely picture

Does anyone really care?

OLD NEWS

r2 You do

r3 It’s not old news. Everyone has always believed they were fucking all those years. According to Robyn, they were never couple during the same time Whitney was a star. She technically wasn’t lying when she said Robyn was just her friend.

Robyn was friendzoned while they were in their teens. People have to stop acting like she was a scorned lover. She wasted two decades of her life trying to get back in between Whitney’s legs.

I think Robyn is being discreet. She must feel guilty about writing a book when she said she would not. Now she is trying to make it so that Whitney does not appear as if she deceived the public about her sexual orientation.

Robyn and Whitney were "observed" behaving in the manner of lovers well into Whitney's career. Unless, of course, cuddling and other forms of pda are not what lesbians do. I would guess Whitney was a conflicted bisexual.

That's sweet and sad.

R6 I agree. I think she's being discreet too. Of course we want ALL the details but I'm sure Robyn doesn't wanna do anything to hurt Whitney. Cissy is just such a dumb person. What a dumbass. haha. Whitney was definitely conflicted on so many issues of her life.

"According to Robyn, they were never couple during the same time Whitney was a star."

Then who was Whitney fucking all those years? Her crack pipe? Aside from Bobby Brown (we can assume they did it at least once), the other men in Whitney's resume were not real dates or relationships, such as Randall Cunningham, a publicity photo shoot (according to his gf), Eddie Murphy, photographed together, never dated.

Cissy threatened to abandon Whitney if she continued. She is a homophobe and a narcissist who wanted W to be famous.

Whitney did have a sexual affair with Jermaine Jackson but that could have been a typical music industry thing -- he was her songwriter and producer, and at the time, he was a successful recording artist in his own right. And his brother was the biggest pop star in the universe. Lots of upside for her.

Jermaine was married and she was "partnered" so it wasn't going anywhere.

r9 Did she have to be constantly fucking somebody in order to be bisexual? She did spend significant amounts of time on the road in the early part of her career. It doesn’t lend well towards a relationship with a man or woman. She had a sexual relationship with Jermaine. That was confirmed by multiple sources and would have began after Robyn. That lasted 83/84. Eddie(also bisexual) has more or less confirmed that were an item. I think he’s an asshole that’s “ashamed” of her now because of her addiction to cocaine but he’s said things like he didn’t allow her to smoke around him. Why would she care about that if they weren’t dating? I’m pretty sure she quietly dated some guy named Brad Johnson for a bit in the 80s. Cunningham said they went on a few dates but she wasn’t in to him. Honestly, he doesn’t seem her type regardless of sexuality. Bobby was real for sure. He was an abusive, toxic piece of shit and she stayed with him for 14 years because she loved him not because he was a beard. They had their first separation in 1995 and she could have easily divorced him. She also had multiple miscarriages during the course of their marriage.

R10 Cissy was living vicariously through Whitney.

Brad Johnson is the guy in the Where Do Broken Hearts Go video. He was a manager at a restaurant owner by Simpson & Ashford.

“Macdonald said that by the mid-1980s, Crawford and Houston had settled into being close friends. Houston's former boyfriend, restaurateur Brad Johnson, recalled several instances when he held the star's hand while sitting across from Crawford in a limousine and felt no tension or hostility on her part.”

Why would Robyn write a bio just to lie again? In 2019 Whitneys legacy will be unaffected by a lesbo relationship. Plus Robyn already pissed off the religious family members with the first claim, why not just go all in? I think it's possible this was a youthful experiment for a 17/18 year old that didn't go further. Meanwhile, the actual lesbian couldn't let go and so became Whitneys bestie. It's all very sad.

Her best music video. She looks flawless. The image she should have kept til the end. TRAGIC. Such an elegant, classy, BEAUTIFUL black woman in every way HERE:

I saw Whitney and Robyn VERY together in 1990 in Westwood. As in PDAs all over the place. This is some BS. Robyn is just trying to "save" her from looking like a lifelong bisexual or lesbian, which she probably was.

R16 Beautiful?

r17 Yeah, sure you did. We totally believe you. Whitney was stupid enough to do PDA while she was one of the biggest starts in the world and was never captured in an intimate situation? It doesn’t add up.

r18 For sure

I don’t see any reason why Robin would lie. She could just easily say she and Whitney are still doing it all those years- with all the lurid details- to move more units. I can believe Whitney was truly bisexual and she fell in love with both Robin and Bobby.

I'm Your Baby Tonight is her best video. Timeless. Even the ripped jeans are back.

R12, I'm not questioning bisexuality, I'm questioning if she and Robyn really called the intimate part of their life off. People in their twenties are hyper sexual (yes, even women) and to mostly, as it appeared, not be having sex with anyone for long periods reads false. I believe Robyn and/or other unmentionables were around Whitney intimately during that time. And I don't mean Jermaine.

R20 Whitney eventually became Big Momma.

Finally! While DL may not be surprised, I think the wider world will be. Calls out the gospel church homophobia of Cissy too.

I don't think Whitney was bi. I think she experimented with her best friend in her teens and that's all. Only reason this is even a story is because the experimenting partner remained in her life. But she only remained because Whitneys career was exploding and she needed someone who truly knew her by her side. If Whitney had taken a bank teller job, Robin would have faded out of her life like all experiments.

[quote]I'm questioning if she and Robyn really called the intimate part of their life off. People in their twenties are hyper sexual (yes, even women) and to mostly, as it appeared, not be having sex with anyone for long periods reads false.

Whitney Houston was a beautiful mega star, if she was truly bisexual than she could have satisfied her sexual needs with her pick of the finest men if she swore off women. It is like hot bisexual guys who just settle for women because its easier, it happens all the time.

Obviously, Whitney was on drugs for a large part of her adult life too. She used drugs to fill many voids that other people would use sex for. We all do not live out our lives the same way.

R19 I worked in a optical place in Westwood at the time. If you must know, Whitney parked her late 80s, grey 7-series BMW right in the middle of the lane on Westwood Blvd., to come into our store. She and Robyn were both high AF and very touchy feely. Robyn was wearing red lipstick and there were lipstick marks of the same color all over the chest of Whitney's white V-neck t-shirt which she was wearing with jeans. They both tried on several pairs of sunglasses and ended up buying some. She used her platinum Amex- she paid and they left. Whitney was driving. I have always liked Whitney as an artist and this is the truth.

Not gay my ass!!!!

r24 I think it’s sad that used that picture. She gained weight during that period because she was genuinely attempting to get sober and taking steroids for her vocal chords. She was really trying. She was back to a normal size and looked good leading up to her death. She definitely had her ruff moments but Whitney cleaned up well for someone that had been an off and on addict for at least 17 years at that point.

R18 R24 Not what she became. I said in the broken hearts video. Shut the fuck up. I see what you're doing. I'm sure when you look in the mirror now, you have some reservations about your looks too. 👀 R22 Ripped jeans never left.

I don't know about the 80s, but if anyone gives me a Bible to friendzone me he'd feel the weight of that book in his face repeatedly. WTF? Stupid religious beliefs, and her desperate need of her family's approval, drove Whitney to drugs. She couldn't cope with her desires for carpet munching.

r23 I’m in my 20s, I have not had a long string of partners. We’re not all whores like you darling.

As other posters have said, Robyn has nothing to gain by saying their relationship ended in ‘82 and I don’t think it’s out of loyalty to Whitney. If she wanted to protect her, she could have said they were never lovers at all.

I think what's lost in the discussion so far was that Whitney was molested, by at least one female relative, and likely by a male in her life as well before she was even a teenager.

I don't think it was so much "gay" or "straight" for Whitney if she met Robyn when she was young. It could have been a matter of love and trust. Clearly she saw something in Robyn she trusted, and sustained that relationship for a long time because of it.

Whitney was Clive Durham (from E.M. Foster's Maurice) to Robyn's Maurice. But then Robyn didn't find her version of Alec Scudder as it seems.

[quote] If she wanted to protect her, she could have said they were never lovers at all.

I am sure publishers would have gone all ...

r36 Yes, they would have given her money because she was still Whitney’s best friend and close confidante for most of her adult life wether they were lovers or not. Their sexual relationship isn’t the only reason why people would buy the book

It doesn’t seem like Robyn is holding anything back:

“One day, Whitney and I were spending time together and she whispered, ‘We’re spending the night at Larry’s.’ At the apartment we took off our clothes and for the first time, we touched each other. Caressing her and loving her felt like a dream,” she writes.

“We didn’t share what happened that night with anyone. I wasn’t ready to give up our intimacy either, though I understood how hard it could be in the music business.”

More. Robyn confirms it was physical.

[quote] Yes, they would have given her money because she was still Whitney’s best friend and close confidante for most of her adult life wether they were lovers or not. Their sexual relationship isn’t the only reason why people would buy the book

First of all that "friendship" didn't save Whitney from her sordid demise (overdose in some hotel bath tub). Writing about your oh-so-great friendship with crack is whack Whitney? Sure, friend of the century.

People read about the sordid stuff. They want to know what turned the great singer into the great crack whore.

So all this time we’ve been thinking the sexual relationship went on until she was finally kicked to the curb and meanwhile it was over in 1982!! Wow! I guess Clive Davis wasn’t lying when he said he never had discussion with Whitney about her being gay or he never knew she was gay I forgot exactly what he said. Having watched her documentaries, Whitney seems like she was a bit of a tomboy growing up with her brothers but she may have outgrown that as she became a star and perhaps any attractions to women dissipated and her relationship with Robyn became more of a dependency thing with some make out sessions?

r39 You sound like a massive cunt. There are people capable of compassion and empathy that don’t see her as “crack whore” or care about sordid details. If Robyn was Whitney’s lover or friend, they cared deeply for each other. I would hope that she still has enough love and respect for her that she didn’t write this book for people like you. She claims she wrote it to tell the world the great things about the woman she loved. Whitney’s going to be talked about for a long time and more biopics will come. Cissy has given a good account on the the child and young girl she was before fame but admitted Whitney boxed her out to a certain degree by her teens. The word should be said on the teenage girl she was before fame and the woman she was in private. Bobby is a compulsive liar and still resents Whitney, his account can’t be trusted

Now I can’t wait for the Wendy interview with Robyn I hope she’ll be like “wait, you’re saying the sexual relationship ended in 1982?”

R33, a "long string" of lovers is not the point. A steady partner could achieve the same thing, darling. Long periods of celibacy is not believable.

I've been celibate for 13 years so...

[quote] There are people capable of compassion and empathy that don’t see her as “crack whore” or care about sordid details.

And you can make billions off of them, I am sure.

R44, is this you?

r45 You can make billions off the people who thinks she’s a crack whore? Why would anyone that thinks that low of her go out of their way to buy a book about her? Surely you have better things to do with your time and money

So, Robyn is the reason Whitney is dead? That oh-so precious Bible could've saved Whitney's life from drowning while high. That big-ass thing could've been on the bottom of the tub and kept Whitney's head still above the water. Take responsibility, Robyn!

R46 haha. You wish. Nope. Not even close. 37 years old. 34 waist. 7.5 uncut. 200lbs beef muscle Rican. Built like a shit brick house. Green/Blue eyes. Floss and Waterpik everynight. Gym. Eat great. Taken care of. I just can't bring myself to sleep with swine. I know my worth So, I wait. Terrified of STD's. It's disgusting.

r43 Partners were named, she wasn’t going years and years without sex. I strongly believe the one about Jermaine Jackson which seems to have lasted 83/84. Bobby began in late 90/91. That leaves about a five year stretch with a few guys rumored. How many guys did she have to fuck in that span of time for you believe she was bisexual?

r47, your beloved hero was a self loathing crack whore who loved eating out cunt. Please, make sure you put more money in Clive Davis' pockets to honor Whitney's fake image memory and buy her Best Ofs.

Is Cissy gonna have a heart attack?

[quote]Is Cissy gonna have a heart attack?

Let's hope so!

Who can forget skinny Whitney?

r51 Please seek help. You sound so angry and aggressive for no reason. She was just a singer, no reason to feel such intensity towards the women.

It’s weird that someone on a site composed of mostly gay men is stating her sexuality like it’s a negative thing? Carpet munching isn’t an insult.

Also, Whitney wasn’t a crackwhore because she didn’t need to fuck for her drugs. Your slur doesn’t really apply.

What fake image did I say I was in love with? She was stunning, she had one of the most beautiful voices I’ve ever heard, and I like a lot of her songs. She seemed like a nice enough person from the accounts given by her friends and family. I can’t say anything else about her because I never knew the woman. You seem like you’re the expert.

R49 I need a photo. Or ten, please.

How could you question anybody that thought lowly of her buying a book about her when she’s living rent free in r51’s mind nearly seven years after death.

R49 you sound so hot!

Whitney was also with Ray J at some point towards the end of her life. Is there evidence of any other female lovers outside of Robyn? “Tryin to dirty out Whitney’s name no no”

Why would that dirty out her name. It's 2019!

R28 - good juice. Think high on pot - or something more ?

I agree Whitney was probably just in a passing phase of Bi-dom. But the religion thing really screwed her up. And having very little education - even if she was smart woman. Was almost a child star.

R61, I thought she completed high school at a selective, private all-girls school?

R60 I was just quoting her lyrics from whatulookinat

[quote] As other posters have said, Robyn has nothing to gain by saying their relationship ended in ‘82 and I don’t think it’s out of loyalty to Whitney. If she wanted to protect her, she could have said they were never lovers at all.

Robyn is between a rock and a hard place. Clearly her motivation is both financial and to salvage damage done to her own reputation by the family-sanctioned (fictional) documentary. However, Robyn commented once after Whitney's death and said she would never speak on it again. So the book could already be seen as a betrayal of Whitney and a breach of Robyn's vow of silence. On the other hand, the "lurid" truth about their relationship exposes Whitney as confused, conflicted, insecure, and even worse, a liar.

Robyn has very little room to navigate. I believe she would mislead, or withhold the truth, for the sake of saving Whitney's image. Family says Whitney was molested and therefore sexually confused. Lesbian partner says relationship was mere youthful experimentation. Either way, Whitney is not a lesbian -- and that's what everyone wants to sell as the truth.

I'm not convinced it was a "passing phase." I think Robyn was the love of her life, but it was hardwired into her brain that she was a filthy sinner by her ugly bitch mother. She was bullied and told how "unnatural" she was. I think Whitney suppressed it, but it was there always. Call her Bi if you wish. But I believe it was out of necessity. I believe she anesthetized herself to deal with the stress of her duality and her life. vIn her own way, Cissy was every bit as vicious and nasty as Joe Jackson was to Michael.

Good analysis, R64.

R65 I watched the reality show with Bobby and she was definitely in love with him. Yeah they were drugged out but the chemistry was indisputable.

r61 Whitney went to a nice private school. I’m not sure about her test scores but she did graduate. She had at least an above average education for a Pop Star.

That’s what I don’t get about the different viewpoints of Cissy. She wanted to live through Whitney but she fought against her signing a record contract until she graduated high school. What was the motivation for that if she wanted Whitney to be a superstar so badly?

I don’t know why it’s so hard for you all to accept Whitney was bi when Bobby is proof enough for me.

She was out of her fucking mind if she let “just a beard” slap her around, spend her money and knock her up multiple times. He fucking sliced her face open at one point. The world didn’t even like them together. She could have easily replaced him with someone else, drugs or no drugs. It’s easier for me to believe she was bi and in love with him.

R64 - Totally agreed.

I think it's very sad, Robyn seemed to be the only decent one in her life and the rest were vultures, especially her family.

r70 Yes let’s act like Cece Winans and other friends don’t exist. Robyn doesn’t to be treated like the saint in Whitney’s life anymore. She betrayed her promise and is even going as far as detailing their sexual encounters. There’s also a portion where she says Whitney told her the drug use began at 14. She’s not protecting Whitney from anything.

She used Whitney and used with Whitney just like many others.

Plus, what image is there to save? In the year 2019, it is worse to be a lesbian than a drug addict?! Whitney was bi, deal with it.

I never thought Whitney and Bobby were even remotely in love. She was with Bobby because she thought it was the cool thing to do.

Wait, didn't Bobby himself say they were in love but she could never give up having sex with women?

So Nippy liked to chew on the carpeting every once in awhile.

No harm, no foul.

Well, I always say, if the shoe fits, steal it.

And if it's Nippy's get it up at an auction.

As for being bi, shit. Bi means "human." Gay means "fabulous." But I always turned down Dusty and all because I am not going to let any lady juices affect my God-given instrument of divinity. That stuff BURNS and slicks the pipes all up. At least a man's sort of clumps eventually and you can hawk it up. Preferably into his lazy sleeping gaping mouth hole.

Now shut up about dead sex. Go get fucked and you won't be worrying so much about where Nippy was rubbing her nips.

I think she was in love with Bobby and when it came down to choosing between the two, she chose Bobby. Bobby was also attractive back then, had tons of women throwing themselves at him (fucked Janet Jackson and Madonna) and had a decent enough career. If he was bearding, he must be a really awesome actor. Also he must be really stupid because her career literally swallowed his. With his massive ego back then, why on earth would he choose to stay with someone he doesn’t love, who doesn’t love him, and, who is killing his career. Why would he choose to continue being called Mr. Houston or Mr. Whitney. He must have believed she was at most bi and not lesbian. Sorry, they loved each other in my view.

That’s so heartbreaking.

[quote]With his massive ego back then, why on earth would he choose to stay with someone he doesn’t love, who doesn’t love him, and, who is killing his career.

Hmm, what could it po$$ibly be?

R78 his second album “don’t be cruel” was the biggest selling album of 1989 and his third album which garnered him a Grammy and AMA award plus some hits is rumored to have not performed as well due to his marriage to Houston. He wasn’t hurting for money back then!

[quote]He wasn’t hurting for money back then!

No, but her earnings dwarfed his ... and he was smart enough to realize the disparity would get even greater over time.

See DL really does know the scoop. We have been saying this for years.

"Dateline NBC and the Today Show will present an exclusive interview with Whitney Houston's best friend, Robyn Crawford, where she will, for the first time on camera, reveal her romantic relationship with Whitney Houston."

Don't know when, though.

Any excuse to post the divine Debra Wilson as Whitney ...

[quote] He wasn’t hurting for money back then! No, but her earnings dwarfed his ... and he was smart enough to realize the disparity would get even greater over time.

I doubt. People forget how young Bobby was when he met Whitney. She was 26, he was 20. It was 1989 and he had the biggest selling album of the year and every woman he could want including big stars who were older than him. By the time he came to marry Whitney in 1992 at the age of 23, he must have believed that his career was only going to get bigger with the future ahead of him. This was before “The Bodyguard” and before “I will always love you” which catapulted Houston into the stratosphere. Regardless of her talent, I don’t think anyone could have predicted that level of success, that followed that record and movie. If anything, Bobby was caught up in the charms of the older, very beautiful, very talented Houston when he married her. He was also caught up in the love story...the bad boy and the sweet beautiful girl next door. I don’t think he did it for money.

Cissy was Rose Hovick to Whitney's Gypsy Rose Lee. Cissy wanted the fame her daughter got and did everything she could to get rid of. Robin and then Bobby were the convenient scapegoats, but all the Houston kids are/were damaged to some extent.

Cissy sitting there stonefaced telling Oprah she would have had a problem with Whitney being a lesbian, it was the first time Oprah was at a loss for words. And her "That's how you're going to play it?" look to Cissy said it all. This woman's fan base was gay men. Gay men kept her afloat until Whitney came along. She knew better.

Robyn confirmed the Eddie relationship. Whitney was more into him than he was into her which I’ve always suspected. Plus, I heard Whitney tell that story before, she planned some elaborate dinner for Eddie and he never showed up.

R86 Eddie is gay.

Will black bigots turn on her now or just pretend it didn't happen?

"I think she experimented with her best friend in her teens and that's all."

That's what my grandmother said about my aunt Val.

"It’s weird that someone on a site composed of mostly gay men is stating her sexuality like it’s a negative thing? Carpet munching isn’t an insult."

At the lesbian hating DL it is.

Doesn't anyone remember why Clive Davis got Whitney with Bobby Brown? It was because she needed to appear "blacker" to reach the black audience that had rejected her for recording music deemed "too white." She had been booed at an awards show (Soul Train?) because she seemed to be a packaged black singer of white music. Bobby was a black bad boy. He even described Whitney as bisexual in a book.

Whitney in her butcher days.

[quote]r51 There are people capable of compassion and empathy that don’t see her as a “crack whore” or care about sordid details.

Mmmmmm .... not that many.

[quote]Doesn't anyone remember why Clive Davis got Whitney with Bobby Brown?

He didn't. She met Bobby Brown at the Soul Train awards the same night she got booed by the audience. She loved the way he performed, and he made her laugh and feel better backstage. They became friends for a while before they started dating.

Clive had little to do with Whitney's decision to go more "black". That was her choice after the reception she got at the awards show. The night was the slow beginning to the eventual destruction of the docile Whitney doing everything to please Clive era.

r93 Well people tend to be self-centered cunts and the misfortune of others makes them feel better about themselves. Black women also tend to get less sympathy than any other group.

r93 Well people tend to be self-centered cunts and the misfortune of others makes them feel better about themselves. Black women also tend to get less sympathy than any other group.

Why do people in one way or another as far as sexuality, personality, and career goals. People are multifaceted and change over the course of their life.

Why does it have to be she was either “hood” and forced to “act White” or she “acted White” and was forced to be “hood”. It’s stupid. People talk about these elaborate fake persona but I’ve never seen anything extraordinary about the way Whitney came across in interviews. She doesn’t lie about her background in them.

The entire basis for it seems to be that she was physically beautiful, wore formal attire to formal events, and sang Pop music. WTF?

God, in r97 pics she was so beautiful. Even that high school pic

R85: I'm glad you brought up Cissy Houston. People think of her as some old woman gospel singer but she had been in the pop and rock world for decades before Whitney signed a record contract. She was a first call backup singer which meant artists would wait until she was available to record. She sang with countless artists on countless records that you have in your collection. So I don't understand why she has this attitude about gay people or maybe it was just her daughter. Cissy sang on each and every Luther Vandross album so I'm sure she knew about him.

Wow. I can’t believe she broke her promise

[quote] Wait, didn't Bobby himself say they were in love but she could never give up having sex with women?

Yes. Bobby said that Robyn Crawford was the love of Whitney's life.

OP, I am currently 53, and everyone knew Whitney was bi when I saw seventeen.

Cissy sang disco music to gay audiences. Her cabaret audiences were mainly queens. She had no issue with Luther or any of the other gay men she worked with, in the secular world or the church choir. Gay men adored her.

She just didn't want gays in her family.

r102 “Everyone” knew some random teen model was bisexual? Who is everyone and how?

I think Whitney was gay. America would never have accepted a lesbian pop singer in the 1980s. And Cissy Houston wouldn't accept a gay daughter.. Maybe Whitney thought (and prayed) that if she found the right man, she'd fall in love with him.

Someone above mentioned Cissy's interview with Oprah. You can see Oprah's face fall. Imagine having to tell that cold, disapproving woman that you're gay.

Whitney just loved my rubyfruit jungle.

Please shut up, Robyn.

Pathetic crack whore.

She did absolutely nothing for gay people when she was alive.

Absolute zero.

[quote]I’ll just preface this by saying I’m firmly in the bisexual not lesbian camp. Whitney and Robyn did have a romantic relationship but Whitney ended it in 1982 when she was still 19. She dumped Robyn by giving her a Bible. They truly were friends from that point on.

Sure. A19 year old woman in a relationship with another woman breaking it off with a bible due to her horribly religious family's threats and then immediately becoming an addict and then continuously being seen with that same woman for the rest of your life doesn't point at all to a repressed lesbian. Nope. Not at all.

Rosie ODonnell already said that she and every dyke in Hollywood knew they were a couple.

It's sad to think that if she could have been openly gay, she may have been healthy and happy, alive and well, today.

[quote] She did absolutely nothing for gay people when she was alive.

You’re an idiot. Whitney publicly supported the gay community and when asked why and whether it would hurt her career, she said they are my people. I support them and they support me. She played many gay events.

Another.

r108 Not true. She performed many charity concerts for AIDS research. She also at performed pride week I’m not sure why she was obligated to do anything for gays because of her own sexuality. Coming out as bisexual would have ruined her life quicker than the drugs. I blame the world and those around her. She’s also not a crack whore. Please learn the definition. God, some of you old queens are really sick and hateful on this site. Does being HIV+ make you so bitter?

What did Marilyn Monroe or most of the White starlets that you queens worship ever do for the gay community? Madonna certainly made use of the LGBT(especially those of color) for her own advantage.

r109 She didn’t immediately become an addict. She became an addict in 1994/1995.

Right, R115, she went straight from drug free to addict in 1994. Of course she became an addict out of the blue in her mid 30s. Uh huh.

r116 Who said anything about her being drug free? There are multiple levels in between drug free and addict. She abused drugs from a young age, she wasn’t an addict until the mid 90s. Literally, everyone involved including Whitney herself pick that date as the time it spiraled out of control. Whitney was never even high in interviews or public appearances until ‘95/‘96.

The way I see it:

- Casual user( ?-1992) - Pregnant(1993) - Development from user to addict(1994) - High-functioning addict(1995-1999)

We all know how it went in the 2000s.

If you glimpse at the comments on the video confirming she is Bisexual..... the black community just doesn't want to accept it! They're now saying that no one can confirm it and that Robyn is just making a ridiculous claim that Whitney cannot defend. How can they defend and support Cissy but trash and dismiss Robyn?

Like all good bulldaggers, Nippy despised gay men.

That was what had initially attracted her to Eddie Murphy. She found his AIDS jokes to be absolutely hilarious.

Then there was the time her and Cissy were watching TV and everyone heard this roaring laughter come out the den. It was like Whitney and her mom were watching Def Jams Comedy but when everyone went to check it out, they discovered the two of them watching Ryan White's funeral.

The real kicker was when Clive had to reel her in before she could announce her KILLING THE RIGHT PEOPLE World Tour. Cissy just sat back, lit up a smoke and said, "That's my baby girl."

R119, WTF are you smoking?

[quote] [R119], WTF are you smoking?

Oooh, chile...whatever it is I want some. Because that b!tch is blitzed out of her mind, and I have a 3 day weekend approaching.

Not that anyone believes the crack whore at r119 but let the record reflect that Whitney was SURROUNDED by gay men her whole career. Never heard a whisper about her being anti-gay. Her defensiveness around gayness had only to do with her self-conflict.

Why didn't Cissy ever blow up? She could sing anyone under the table.

I can't believe you cunts are on here saying Whitney was anti-gay. After all she has given you bitches

[quote] I can't believe you cunts are on here saying Whitney was anti-gay. After all she has given you bitches

Cunts will be cunts.

Her description of the summer day Houston married Bobby Brown in 1992 is particularly poignant. In the book, Crawford recounts when the singer first told her about Brown’s proposal. Although the two had not been romantically involved for several years, their bond stayed strong. As Crawford was laying on the bed in her former room within their New Jersey mansion, Houston entered and lay down next to her. “Bobby asked me to marry him and I think I’m going to do it,” Crawford recalls her saying. Crawford responded by asking Houston if she loved Brown. She replied yes. Then Houston turned to her and asked, “Do you think he loves me?” Houston asked Crawford to be her Maid of Honor. “I was very emotional,” she writes of the wedding day. “I looked into her eyes when I took her bouquet — taking one last look.” Crawford continued to work for Houston for eight more years. But following the marriage, Crawford claims her friend became further isolated and her drug use escalated. The volatile marriage often made tabloid headlines. “I saw and heard him speak to her in ways that were demeaning, and [he] talked down to her,” says Crawford. She added that she was pushed further and further away until she quit in 2000, fearing she could no longer protect her friend.

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Was Liza Minelli a crack whore?

Was Debbie Harry a crack whore?

"I think Whitney was gay. America would never have accepted a lesbian pop singer in the 1980s. And Cissy Houston wouldn't accept a gay daughter.. Maybe Whitney thought (and prayed) that if she found the right man, she'd fall in love with him."

That's what the guys at the Datalouge think too...

She chose Brown over Crawford. She cannot be gay.

Robyn was a handsome woman!

^ She was

"In 1983, Whitney had a fling with Jermaine Jackson. I felt her slipping away. I could live without being romantically involved, but I had trouble facing the walls that were going up. I lay on the floor in the dark, letting the tears flow."

What a terrible track record with men. Whitney should have stuck to pussy.

Does anyone really care?

r133 The person who says this always cares the most

This whole thing is sad. Even if Whitney wanted to be with men also she wasn't able to be who she really was completely and that's heartbreaking. It damages people to live a lie no matter how big or small. I feel very sad for Robyn I believe she really loved her.

[quote]Does anyone really care?

Asks the 133rd poster in the thread.

R135 well clearly she chose her faith over “being completely who she really was” and she seemed to derive a lot of joy and satisfaction from her faith, who knows who she would have been otherwise.

The whole thing is sad. Whitney sounds like shitty human being with no redeeming qualities and yet Robyn spent half her life loving her and trying to protect her.

Whitney was mean to her.

Whitney was living two lies. Clive Davis gave her a goody-two-shoes image, when she would have preferred to express a more "street" attitude.

r140 Lol, bullshit. Whitney was auditioning for record companies singing the song Tomorrow from Annie, Greatest Love of All, and I think Evergreen. She knew what he had already done with Dionne and Aretha. I have no doubt in my mind she wanted to be a fucking pop star. She might have changed her mind down the line but he did not manipulate her into having a career she didn’t initially want. Even Robyn described her as having high ambitions.

If you listen to her prefame records, her voice is too high and sweet for anything close to street. Most people that talk about her before fame describe her as shy or a loner. She had few friends before Robyn which is probably why she was so close to her drug addled brothers. Aside from the drugs, this street narrative is so fake.

Pre-fame 18-year-old Whitney sounds pretty grown up in this record.

r142 Yeah and not far off from the vocal stylings of her mainstream career. She was not a gritty/earthy singer, her voice was too pristine. I think she had grit to her voice in the 90s but it would not have sounded natural in her early career.

If she started out as afull blown R&B singer, I imagine she would have been similar to Stephanie Mills who I would not describe as street.

r142 She was 16

Eddie Murphy also rejected young Robin Givens. She ended up with Mike Tyson. Also dated Brad Pitt.

I see this gif often. It's from a Euro TV show with a messy host. I wonder if Whitney styled herself. I don't think she could have pulled off more street because in that era, street would have meant dancing. Anyone who's seen Whitney excitedly "dancing" on the Merv Griffin show (the episode where she falls out of her top), will know what I mean. She had to be a "stand there and sing" (or walk from one side of the stage to the other) type of performer.

[Quote] she seemed to derive a lot of joy and satisfaction from her faith

Parallel to abusing drugs?

[Quote] I lay on the floor in the dark, letting the tears flow.

Did Robyn have a ghost writer? It reads like a bad TV movie scene.

[Quote] I can't believe you cunts are on here saying Whitney was anti-gay

What about "If we continue a physical relationship, we're going to hell" isn't anti-gay?

[Quote] Why didn't Cissy ever blow up? She could sing anyone under the table.

I remember reading a description of Cissy's voice as a "tart soprano." I think that's part of the reason. Hers isn't a warm voice, really. Lorraine Ellison is another singer with that church soprano that wasn't in sync with the emerging soul (especially southern soul) era.

Cissy was also already pretty matronly by the mid/late 1960s as well.

[Quote] If you glimpse at the comments on the video confirming she is Bisexual..... the black community just doesn't want to accept it! They're now saying that no one can confirm it and that Robyn is just making a ridiculous claim that Whitney cannot defend. How can they defend and support Cissy but trash and dismiss Robyn?

I've seen comments rejoicing that, since the physical relationship ended in 1982 (not sure I buy that based on other comments), that Whitney was merely experimenting and had no interest in women. Yeah, sure. If she had no interest in women, she wouldn't have fell on the old "we're going to hell [if we continue]" spiel while giving Robyn a fucking bible.

[Quote] In the year 2019, it is worse to be a lesbian than a drug addict?!

In certain communities, yes. The pervert uncle or the junkie cousin will still get invited to family gatherings but...

[Quote] I think it's possible this was a youthful experiment for a 17/18 year old that didn't go further.

They met in 1980 and had a physical relationship until 1982. Whitney must have been a very conscientious experimenter.

r149 I think it’s more complex than that. You don’t think someone is evil to think you’ll go to hell if you practice the same behavior. Luther was one of her best friends and every with a working pair of eyes knew her was as gay as the day is long. What does it even matter if you don’t believe in an afterlife.

[Quote] Eddie(also bisexual) has more or less confirmed that were an item.

See:

[Quote] "I was never dating Whitney. Whitney was another person who was a friend of mine. I may have gone to dinner with her a few times. But we never, like, dating. We were never boyfriends and girlfriends. We were just acquaintances, you know. Very friendly acquaintances."

[Quote] She wasted two decades of her life trying to get back in between Whitney’s legs.

That's a really pathetic piece of writing on your part.

[Quote] Whitney seems like she was a bit of a tomboy growing up with her brothers but she may have outgrown that as she became a star and perhaps any attractions to women dissipated and her relationship with Robyn became more of a dependency thing with some make out sessions?

What the fuck is this nonsense? Did someone namedrop this site on LSA and you decided to come on over and check us out?

[Quote] Whitney wasn’t a crackwhore because she didn’t need to fuck for her drugs.

Have you read Etta James' autobiography?

r155 Eddie is liar. I think Whitney was waaaay more into him but they did date.

Did Whitney want Eddie as a status symbol or...? It sort of puts paid to the idea that Whitney was merely a pawn of others' ambition (Cissy, Clive etc.)

[Quote] There’s also a portion where she says Whitney told her the drug use began at 14. She’s not protecting Whitney from anything.

That information was already out there. I recall the brother (Gary?) talking about it in the documentary that aired on TV.

r156 It’s the truth no matter how much it hurts. Whitney was never going to give up her life, career, or religion for Robyn. She couldn’t even give up drugs for her. She should have realized that when Whitney gave her the Bible in 1982. She didn’t have to give up their friendship or working relationship but she should have distanced herself emotionally. She wasted half her life madly in love with a woman she was never going to have.

Even without fame, when without drugs, Whitney was very religious and idolized her mother. She probably would have still dumped Robyn and forced herself into some loveless marriage with a loser while popping out a few spawn and singing in the church choir.

r160 He was one of the few Black men with more wealth and fame than her.

If she really was bisexual instead of gay, Eddie was also charismatic, “funny”, and pretty attractive during that time period.

It's very sad, but I think we knew this. Good for Robyn for unleashing her heart and speaking openly, because she was so guarded before. She never said a negative word about her. I'm a gay man, who can't help but love and respect what they had together.

It's reductive, as it reduces Robyn's interest in Whitney to sex act(s). I'm surprised to see such a comment on a gay forum. Maybe it's because this thread is about women and not (gay) men? Either, it's a stupid fucking point. Robyn didn't stick around for twenty years hoping to get her rocks off once last time with Whitney.

The guy at the link worked at Arista (and would later go on to manage Billy Porter). He writes the following:

[Quote] You’d be at a venue and see them kissing.

So... Robyn is lying about when their physical relationship ended anyway. As posted above, she's between a rock and a hard place and she's trying to minimise the physical aspect - and it's clearly working for some, who are jumping to "it was just experimentation."

I don't believe Whitney used drugs so regularly and kept her same sex impulses at bay. Not for a second do I believe that.

And it doesn't matter to me if Whitney was gay or bi.

[Quote] You’d be at a venue and see them kissing.

Wow. Whitney Houston is turning out to be more interesting in death than Michael Jackson or Prince.

r167 MJ was a pedophile. I mean Whitney needed a therapist too but the guy was completely fucked in the head. How is an affair with a woman and a shit family more interesting than that? I’m pretty sure Prince was bi too. He never was a terribly interesting person outside of his music

Welll... many of us don't find paedophilia interesting...

This is a gay forum. A conflicted homosexual drug addict is going to have some "good" stories attached to their name.

r169 We already knew she was an addict since the early 2000s. The lesbian rumors have existed more of her career. This isn’t interesting new information.

Robyn is still the only known woman that she’s ever fucked. What’s interesting about a monogamous relationship? Does datalounge have something against bisexuality? Does it not exist for you all at all?

[Quote] Does datalounge have something against bisexuality? Does it not exist for you all at all?

Well... Whitney got married in 1992 and... it fixed nothing. Her drug use spiralled out of control. It's hardly surprising that people are skeptical.

She already seems tired and weary here. I don't believe rumors still swirled in 1987 from a romantic relationship that ended in 1982...

r171 She got married to another addict who also happened to be an abusive manchild. It was a terrible match that was bound to make things worse even if she was straight. Why would a Bobby marriage fix anything?

Her sexuality wasn’t the source of all her problems. I don’t agree with that stance. Her drug use increased overtime because of compounding factors.

As someone that’s equally attracted to women and men, I would be annoyed at strangers labeling me based on how long I was with a partner of a particular sex or how healthy my relationship was with them. I don’t believe in firm labels for strangers.

r172 Robyn was still her best friend and assistant while obviously a butch lesbian. Rumors would have still swirled even if they were really broken up.

r173

But Whitney's attractions weren't equal in her eyes. I doubt she gave any male suitor a bible while referencing their potential to go to hell...

[Quote] Robyn was still her best friend and assistant while obviously a butch lesbian. Rumors would have still swirled even if they were really broken up.

Not if Whitney had boyfriends. No one seriously thought Anna Nicole Smith was a lesbian, despite a butch lesbian assistant on her payroll.

r176 Completely different time, completely different person, and a completely different context. We’ve also been over the guys she did date. Robyn is literally confirming them in her book or is that all lies too?

Well, the first man talked about is Jermaine Jackson, who was married. He wasn't a boyfriend, someone with whom Whitney could be seen in a romantic context. Thus, his use was... limited.

She was a lesbian. A terrified closet case. She was not bisexual. She married a man and fucked him for a child because she was forced to by her industry and her mother. She was so miserable her entire life because of it that she died from overdosing on drugs.

Don’t confuse what she was with bisexuality. She was gay.

Period.

r178 The fact that it wasn’t public only strengthens the argument. She had nothing to gain from sleeping with Jermaine.

r179 Whitney had several miscarriages. Why did she continue to sleep with him and take his abuse if they were not in a relationship? They first separated in 1995. She could have easily divorced him. No one would have said, “oh she must be a lesbian since she’s getting a divorce.” Bobby is doesn’t make any sense as beard. Even Robyn says their relationship was real. She didn't technically overdose but that’s neither here nor there. Her sexuality was not the sole or primary cause of her addiction. She had an endless list of reasons to abuse them. Her drug use had already started before Robyn. You seem almost angry at the idea of a complete stranger whose inner thoughts you have no intimate knowledge of being anything but a lesbian. Robyn was her only female lover, just accept it and get a grip.

r178 The fact that it wasn’t public only strengthens the argument. She had nothing to gain from sleeping with Jermaine.

r179 Whitney had several miscarriages. Why did she continue to sleep with him and take his abuse if they were not in a relationship? They first separated in 1995. She could have easily divorced him. No one would have said, “oh she must be a lesbian since she’s getting a divorce.” Bobby is doesn’t make any sense as beard. Even Robyn says their relationship was real. She didn't technically overdose but that’s neither here nor there. Her sexuality was not the sole or primary cause of her addiction. She had an endless list of reasons to abuse them. Her drug use had already started before Robyn. You seem almost angry at the idea of a complete stranger whose inner thoughts you have no intimate knowledge of being anything but a lesbian. Robyn was her only female lover, just accept it and get a grip.

[Quote] The fact that it wasn’t public only strengthens the argument. She had nothing to gain from sleeping with Jermaine.

I'm not arguing whether or not she had a thing with Jermaine. I'm saying he was no use for promoting her image as a heterosexual. Your argument seems to be that she was seen around a butch lesbian and thus rumors "of course" swirled. I don't buy that. Other people - e.g. someone who worked at Arista - have gone on record about seeing Robyn and Whitney kissing lonnnnnnnggggg after 1982. Whitney gave Robyn pride of place and a shoutout from the stage at the AMAs in 1986, IIRC. Theirs was not a simple assistant/bff relationship.

[Quote] Robyn was her only female lover

You don't know that. You're very keen for that to be the case, though...

r182 Jermaine didn’t have to anything to with that argument. She didn’t have anything to gain from having an affair with a married man who was a fairly mediocre producer. Like you said, she couldn’t even use him to promote an image of heterosexuality. That points to attraction at least on some level.

If you’re always hanging around a butch lesbian, people are going to talk. Wether or not they were sleeping together, of course Robyn was going to be a constant at her side. She was her best friend, a great assistant, and her closest confidante.

One guy has said that and I’m not sure why I should believe him over Robyn?

For arguments sake, why wouldn’t Whitney give her best friend and assistant a shout out along with the rest of her team? Robyn wasn’t the only person she thanked up there.

I’m not against the idea of them being together for a longer period of time but then her lake of objection to Whitney sleeping with Jermaine Jackson for no reason is just weird. Robyn hanging around while her long term gf tries to figure out the right guy to date/marry right in front of her is also sad and desperate. No woman or man is worth that.

Of course they weren’t a simple assistant/best friend relationship. Robyn was at the very least, Whitney’s first serious partner at a very young age. Robyn was also obviously still completely in love with her. That line was always going to be blurry. It doesn’t say anything about Whitney felt about their relationship or how she defined it.

r183 No one has come out. Not a single one wants to make bank telling the world she slept with Whitney Houston? Really? Robyn is the only one that has ever been rumored, the only one she was ever seen with, there’s no reason to assume there are others.

[Quote] If you’re always hanging around a butch lesbian, people are going to talk.

Cissy Houston hung around a lesbian. One of the Sweet Inspirations is openly lesbian. Are you under the impression that Robyn was the only butch lesbian working alongside, or for, a singer in the industry?

[Quote] For arguments sake, why wouldn’t Whitney give her best friend and assistant a shout out along with the rest of her team? Robyn wasn’t the only person she thanked up there.

Robyn was sat on one side of Whitney, while Whitney's parents were on the other side. The rest of the team didn't get that...

[Quote] No one has come out. Not a single one wants to make bank telling the world she slept with Whitney Houston? Really? Robyn is the only one that has ever been rumored, the only one she was ever seen with, there’s no reason to assume there are others.

No reason...? Let me guess, you're one of the "Whitney was only experimenting with a woman" brigade.

Hell, Whitney was close to Shirley Caesar for a time...

[Quote] her lake of objection to Whitney sleeping with Jermaine Jackson for no reason is just weird. Robyn hanging around while her long term gf tries to figure out the right guy to date/marry right in front of her is also sad and desperate. No woman or man is worth that.

Who says she didn't object? And of course, side piece to a married man tends to end with the marriage continuing and the side piece out in the cold... Anyway, Whitney and Robyn's relationship was complicated further once Robyn became Whitney's employee.

r189 No, I’m not. I’m a part of the “Whitney could be anywhere on the spectrum but I lean towards bi” brigade. Robyn was obviously important to her.

Now people calling Freddie Mercury bi is a complete joke to me but I never see anyone argue about that.

If Robyn is any indication, she had far superior taste in woman than men. She gave Mariah a few flirty glances in the interviews they did together. I’d believe that. The idea of Shirley is nauseating

[Quote] The idea of Shirley is nauseating

What about Kim Burrell? Or Cherelle? It wouldn't surprise me if some of Whitney's prayer partners were "recovering" LGBs.

r192 Kim Burrell???? Gross

[Quote] Kim Burrell???? Gross

Well, they say the worst homophobes...

[quote] No one seriously thought Anna Nicole Smith was a lesbian, despite a butch lesbian assistant on her payroll.

I do think Anna Nicole was bisexual. Larry Birkhead was not the most masculine man.

[quote] [R142] Yeah and not far off from the vocal stylings of her mainstream career. She was not a gritty/earthy singer, her voice was too pristine. I think she had grit to her voice in the 90s but it would not have sounded natural in her early career.

Whitney's early vocal styling as a recording artist was carefully cultivated. Her natural style is to sing like a charismatic gospel singer -- i.e. Karen Clark-Sheard. For the debut album, Clive Davis would routinely send her back to the studio to re-record songs because he thought she sounded "too black" and he wanted a pop sound.

r196 Don’t care. Her mother’s influence played a major part on her singing style. Asking someone to tone it down isn’t cultivating anything. She sang Pop songs to her auditions. She knew what kind of work he did before her. Unless she was the biggest idiot in the world, she understood that she would be a Pop Star.

I'll never forget the story my mentor told me of seeing Whitney and Robyn around the Village when they were on the East Coast. As he put it, contrary to public appearances or photographs that suggest from clothing choices that their tastes were opposite, Whitney clearly wore the pants in that relationship, had a very butch vibe. He also distinctly remembered a night when he went out for a drink at one of those watering holes where everybody shows up at least once, and she and Robyn were there. At some point, someone said they had some stuff they wanted to say to each other, and then they got up and read what amounted to the kind of vows you heard at a commitment ceremony back in the day. As marriages went, he felt she was probably happier with Robyn.

(To elaborate on how they knew each other: Whitney nearly worked with him on a few occasions; she was almost in a film of one of his musicals back in the late Eighties -- I'll never forget finding the letter of agreement between them when we were cleaning out his attic. He liked her voice, though as an opera fan from his youth he preferred stronger singers, but he felt her family were pure evil and would sell her down the river for a nickel, even if it meant her death. When she passed, his immediate assumption was foul play, as that bathtub trick was used on more than one person around her, though I don't remember the specifics.)

[quote] [R196] Don’t care. Her mother’s influence played a major part on her singing style. Asking someone to tone it down isn’t cultivating anything. She sang Pop songs to her auditions. She knew what kind of work he did before her. Unless she was the biggest idiot in the world, she understood that she would be a Pop Star.

Cissy recorded "Tomorrow" in the 70s. Aretha recorded "What I Did For Love." Gladys recorded "The Way We Were" in a medley with "Try To Remember" from The Fantasticks. Patti Labelle recorded "Somewhere Over The Rainbow." Were they trying to be "pop" stars too?

Choice of material at her auditions is no indication of her desire to be Olivia Newton-John. She considered herself a R&B/Soul singer -- Clive molded her into a "pop" singer.

r199

I’m sorry, Whitney’s career decisions were incomprehensible at best with this narrative.

Girl who wants to be gritty R&B singer:

- Sings Pop records to auditions instead of covering gritty R&B sings

- Sings in style suited to Pop/R&B before she’s even signed. There’s more gospel to Whitney’s voice off record and lacked restraint in some of the early performances I’ve seen from her but it’s not fucking Mary G. Blige.

- Takes on the mannerisms of her Pop Star cousin

- Signs with a man known for revitalizing her cousins Pop career and giving Aretha Franklin’s career a new crossover appeal. A man who would have surely told her he wanted her to be a Pop Star before she signed the contract.

- She was dissatisfied with this arrangement but never thought to switch labels at any point in her career.

Do you believe she had the mental capacity of a child because it sounds like she had the mental capacity of a child.

No one gives her a degree of agency over her own life choices if it doesn’t involve drugs.

[Quote] Cissy recorded "Tomorrow" in the 70s. Aretha recorded "What I Did For Love." Gladys recorded "The Way We Were" in a medley with "Try To Remember" from The Fantasticks. Patti Labelle recorded "Somewhere Over The Rainbow." Were they trying to be "pop" stars too?

Well, cabaret stars, which is much the same thing. As if Patti Labelle had a musical hard-on for "Danny Boy"...

[Quote] No one gives her a degree of agency over her own life choices if it doesn’t involve drugs.

This is something that runs through all the commentary about her. Evil Cissy. Evil Clive. Evil Bobby. Evil Robyn. Poor Whitney.

Did her and Jermaine do anal?

Clooney's wife? She's not that old. Though she's Jermain'es type.

Again, Whitney was a lesbian. She fell in love with Robyn at a very young age. Her mother obviously disapproved...and still does. A few days ago, Diane Warren was on Entertainment Tonight (I think), and she said that if Whitney had been able to be her true self, she'd still be here today.

There were rumors about some love triangle between Whitney, Jodie Foster and Kelly McGillis. The rumor said that Whitney showed up on the set of The Accused, and there was a fight. However, no one's ever confirmed the cause of the conflict. (e.g. did one of the actresses have a relationship with Whitney before cheating with her costar? If so, which one?) This would have been around 1985 or 1986. If it's true, where was Robyn?

I think that as Whitney got older, she got more pressure to become a "family woman". Because that's what the church prescribes for women, and of course, her mother and management wanted to end the gay rumors. Maybe she thought she could "pray the gay away". I think she wanted to be part of a power couple, so she grabbed on to one of the most popular recording artists of the late 80s / early 90s. Maybe she liked the extra press she got from the relationship, and maybe he was very attentive to her and tried to buy her affection with gifts. Maybe she even convinced herself that she loved him (or that she eventually would). If she avoided female friends, then she wasn't at risk of developing a gay crush or falling in love with another woman. She went deeper into the closet. And the drugs helped her forget that she was different, that she had a secret, that her mother and possibly much of her fanbase would reject her if the secret got out.

r205 That’s a nice little story you made for yourself. You should be a writer.

I think Houston’s personal (train wreck) life is more interesting than her music.

I never listened to it, unless it was on the car radio.

I think you’re a cunt r207

[quote]Did her and Jermaine do anal?

Yes, she fucked his ass.

R200, your point is not clear. There are different kinds of voices across the full spectrum of black music. While there are many R&B/Soul singers only a few would be characterized as "gritty R&B" singers -- maybe you mean Etta James, Yvonne Fair or Aretha. That is your choice of phrasing and no one believes Whitney would belong in that club. Deniece Williams, Minnie Riperton, Melba Moore, Patti Austin, Stephanie Mills, Natalie Cole, Roberta Flack, and yes, cousin Dionne, were all soul singers with the versatility to record pop music. As a recording artist, Whitney envisioned herself amongst these women but hoped for more success. She did not envision herself as an adult contemporary pop singer, like a Streisand or ONJ. Clive Davis wanted that for her.

Whitney was trained to be a highly emotive, charismatic singer in the gospel tradition. It was apparent every time she performed live. She was never as restrained as she was on record.

r210 At what point in time did Whitney say this to you or anyone else? She wasn’t a slave girl, contracts run out. She could have switched record companies if she was dissatisfied. Who wouldn’t have wanted to land one of the biggest artist in the world? You can keep insisting what you believe she wanted but her actions don’t support it. She seemed to have a lot of personal freedom in the 90s. A gun wasn’t being held to her head

Robyn describes Ike Turner levels of spousal abuse on Bobby Brown’s part. It’s disgusting that he’s been painted as something of a victim on the Black community’s part.

Cissy is also giving Joe Jackson a run for his money.

Her father was a POS and her brothers were complete losers.

It’s a miracle that she became a star at all and that she lasted so long. She could have easily burnt out after her debut with some of these accounts.

The Daily Mail reported that Houston’s sister-in-law, Tina Brown, and her ex-bodyguard, Kevin Ammons, both believed Houston might have been a lesbian because she “had wild sex sessions with women while out of her mind on crack cocaine.”

r213 WTF?

r213 Ammons wrote a tell all book for money in ‘96 and Tina is the one that took a picture of her bathroom. Both pieces of shit desperate for a payday

[Quote] Robyn’s book had to have been difficult for her to write. For one thing, she had to wait until Cissy was out of the picture. Cissy didn’t like her at all. But Cissy didn’t like anyone. She was horrible to Whitney, was very jealous of her overnight success after Cissy had worked so hard, thanklessly, for decades. Robyn stays out of a lot of Houston family politics. She mentions Pat Houston’s name once, in passing. She doesn’t get into how Pat, second of wife brother Gary, a big druggie, took over managing Whitney after her dad, John Houston, passed. It wasn’t pretty.

[Quote] There might be one other person out there who could write a book about Whitney. I won’t mention his name because he’s managed to stay low profile. Otherwise, it’s all Robyn. She was there (so was I) backstage at the 2000 Grammys when Whitney and Bobby had a knock down, drag out fight. I can’t remember if she was there later at Mel’s Drive-In on Sunset when Bobby stood on a table stop and announced to me that “L.A. Reid is giving me a $100 million contract.” Whitney was horrified. It was she who’d gotten the $100 million contract.

[Quote] There’s plenty more: ironically, a failed recording with George Michael, who is also dead now thanks to drugs. A re-enactment of Burt Bachrach firing her from the Oscars. Endless stories of Bobby hitting Whitney, very Ike Turner, throwing things at her, etc, and her accepting it. Also failed attempts at rehab or sessions with doctors. It wasn’t for lack of trying. Even I once had the number for Whitney’s drug counselor in California in my Blackberry. Almost everyone who knew her was concerned about her. Robyn was at the top of the list.

r216 Ugh, failed attempt with MJ. George Michael was her second choice and it went through

Yeah, I remember a duet with George Michael, around the time of her "Greatest Hits."

R216 the article says there's one only other person who could tell Whitneys story but he's low profile. Who is it? Was he a lover too? Guesses welcome.

Robin is on Wendy right now east coast

Anecdote reposted her in 2012:

[Quote] One of my family members worked as a bellhop at the Alexis Park Resort in Las Vegas back in the mid '80s. This was when Whitney was single, in her prime, and everyone loved her and thought she was the sweetest thing. This was also during a time when the UNLV Runnin' Rebels were in their prime. Whitney Houston was a guest in one of the Alexis Park luxury suites, so everyone was excited to have her there and were at her beck and call. Whitney was a fan of the Rebels and called down and requested the hotel to get her two Rebels jackets personally embroidered with hers and her mother's names and have them delivered to her room. Her wish was granted, and my family member was the bellhop assigned the task of delivering the jackets.

[Quote] Naturally my family member was excited and was anticipating a big tip, so he made sure his demeanor was as professional as possible, gathered Whitney's package and made his way to her suite. He quietly knocked on her door and stepped back so he was easily recognized through her door's peephole. He heard a few bang-crashes in the room, several stomps on the floor, the door flew open, and a sweaty, disheveled looking woman reeking of sex and smoke, clad in a hastily tied Alexis Park bathrobe screamed, 'WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT!' It was Whitney Houston, and across the room behind her was another disheveled looking woman still in the process of hastily tying her Alexis Park bathrobe. This woman was also a black woman, she looked around the same age as Whitney, and was also attractive apart from the sexed-up mess of hair and funky stench. My family member handed Whitney the package and said, 'Here are the UNLV jackets you requested ma'am.' Whitney snatched them out of his hand and slammed the door in his face. No thanks. No tip.

[Quote] So there you go. Whitney Houston has sex with women and is a no-tipping bitch.

Robyn Extract:

Interview starts circa 11:00

r6 Judging from the tale Robyn is telling she is still trying to protect Whitney as she allows some of the truth to come out. I've been in many Whitney threads letting people know that in the 80's in New York Robyn and Whitney were seen at lesbian nights or lesbian bars well in the 80's. I had lesbian friends who would excitedly tell me anytime they saw them at a club. It's really irritating to watch people come here and water down the truth. Whitney was always interested in women even during her marriage. She was a lesbian who slept with men in order to protect her image and career, Robyn is basically telling us this.

Sorry to disappoint but many of you should read. Whitney sounds closer to bisexual than gay and it seems like she was enamored more with Robyn’s devotion than Robyn herself. Robyn list male lovers and a surprising degree of promiscuity with them on Whitney’s part. Robyn in turn sounds less like a lover and more like a lapdog that might have occasionally used to get her rocks off.

She seemed fairly obsessed with Eddie Murphy. Robyn in turn also had relationships with men and women. Whitney didn’t seem to care at all about Robyn’s male lovers but did act jealous with the women Robyn brought around. She describes an account where Whitney ripped apart pages of the blue bible she had given to Robyn after seeing a woman in her home.

r221 Datalounge is not a reliable source

Obsessed with what Eddie Murphy could do for her?

[quote] Robyn Extract

R222, "Robyn Extract" sounds like the name of an essential oil used to increase lesbian libido.

I think you meant "excerpt"

Is Wendy always like that with butch lesbians? She looked like she was about to put her leg over on Robyn at the end of that interview.

Extract [Quote] verb (used with object) to get, pull, or draw out, usually with special effort, skill, or force: to extract a tooth. to deduce (a doctrine, principle, interpretation, etc.): He extracted a completely personal meaning from what was said. to derive or obtain (pleasure, comfort, etc.) from a particular source: He extracted satisfaction from the success of his sons. to take or copy out (matter), as from a book.

[Quote] noun something extracted. a passage taken from a book, article, etc.; excerpt; quotation.

Lena meets Robyn.

r227 Obsessed with him as a romantic partner, completely enamored. She wanted him, he just saw her as plaything. Bobby was initially just meant to be a fun time. Robyn claims that she Whitney had unprotected sex with him the first time they met in 1989. She then moved on to her fixation with Eddie. When she realized he wasn’t taking her seriously, she started considering Bobby as a serious partner. The men she liked were apparently darkskinned. She apparently would have never dated a White guy.

At the same time, she was possessive of Robyn and would not tolerate her dating other women in front of her. She would even cry about it.

It sounds like she wanted her cake and eat it too.

Bobby could give Ike Turner a run for his money in Robyn’s accounts. Cissy and John surpass Joe Jackson in shitty parenting sans the beatings. Her brothers are complete druggie losers.

I glad Whitney didn’t write her own songs. It’s a cruel fate they and their heirs will be able to make money off of her hard work until the end of time. At least it’s less than what it could have been. It’s no surprise that they came up with the hologram. I don’t think anyone in that family gave a shit about her.

Robyn's interview with Wendy Williams

The most surprising bit of info in this book is that Robyn was bisexual

As a Wendy Williams listener from back in the day, Im glad that Robyn and Wendy got to discuss this on TV, all these years later. It feels like a full circle moment for both of them. Robyn really put it all out there in a classy way.

I don't know that Whitney was even bi. I can't imagine having such a close intimate relationship with an ex I was attracted to and never even kissing her once for years. Not even when I was drunk. I think she had a very soulful connection with Robyn during which she experimented as a teen. That would explain why she hated Robyn being with other girls but not guys. To Whitney that was their thing and doing it with another girl messed with the sacredness of it.

I mean if theres another woman with whom Whitney hooked up wouldn't she be known by now? The number of books and TV movies about this woman's life are astounding.

Wendy is such a cunt. I'm glad to see Robyns grace made it impossible for her to be messy. You know Wendys they type to ask if Whitney ate the muffin.

[Quote] I can't imagine having such a close intimate relationship with an ex I was attracted to and never even kissing her once for years. Not even when I was drunk. I think she had a very soulful connection with Robyn during which she experimented as a teen. That would explain why she hated Robyn being with other girls but not guys. To Whitney that was their thing and doing it with another girl messed with the sacredness of it.

Are you gay? Because that is some bullshit you just typed.

R238 I'm gay but I did have an intense high school/college relationship with a girl despite the fact that I wasn't physically attracted to women. I've never looked at a woman's body and thought I want to fuck it and yet with her we just had this connection that made sex possible. This is why I said what I said. Incidentally, my current boyfriend had a similar experience with a childhood friend. Where the guy couldn't even watch bi porn but had an erotic connection with my guy.

The world isn't as black and white as you may want to think. There are many shades of grey in there.

[Quote] I've never looked at a woman's body and thought I want to fuck it

And yet, Robyn says Whitney initiated their first sexual encounter...

Bobby Abuse #1

Bobby abuse #2

Who is the well known musician's daughter?

Robyn to the rescue.

Whitney limp.

Rescue refused.

Dragging.

Busted porsche.

Bookkeeper.

Bled dry even by '87

Michael crack'd.

My Tour Dates belong to Daddy.

D&G, darling.

Racism

Grandpa Houston.

Passing.

Sharpton.

McCoo.

Streisand.

Faster Cissy! Slap! Slap!

No Whitney, No Joy.

Kneecaps.

Bloody Bentley.

Exhale.

Robyn's book is SO good!!

Sincere thanks to the memoir troll. Post more please

Reading these excerpts makes me want to find Bobby Brown and beat the shit out of him.

He may have not been the reason Whitney started doing drugs, she did that on her own and with the help of her family. But he was the source of much of her misery. What a worthless piece of shit.

Have to admit even though back in the 80's in NYC there was plenty of talk in the gay community about Whitney being gay it looks like from Robyn's account she was not. Have to say I'm shocked.

[Quote] there was plenty of talk in the gay community about Whitney being gay it looks like from Robyn's account she was not. Have to say I'm shocked.

If Whitney was not family, why did she scupper Robyn's attempts at dating women (dancer Joy, and un-named backing singer)? I don't think it was simply homophobia/religious "conviction." Whitney decided to "go straight," and she was not going to let Robyn have a gay romantic life, probably because it would be painful to see a life Whitney might have had (i.e. as Robyn's romantic partner) play out in parallel to Whitney's pathetic experiences with Eddie Murphy and Bobby Brown.

[Quote] He may have not been the reason Whitney started doing drugs, she did that on her own and with the help of her family. But he was the source of much of her misery. What a worthless piece of shit.

From what I've read, I think if it weren't Bobby, it would be some other loser. Robyn details how the Houston family exploited Whitney financially with no shame. Why would Whitney have self respect coming from the family she had? She was barely into her twenties and her whole family were taking her for a ride. The Brown family was just more of the same.

It's interesting how self possessed, how ambitious the young Whitney, as painted by Robyn, seems. Yet, once she achieved success, she comes across as everyone's fool - at least everyone admitted to the inner circle. In a way, it's sort of amazing that she made it to 2012 at all.

It was posted upthread by a former Arista employee that Whitney and Robyn were seen kissing on video shoots. Why would that guy lie? Now, Robyn has reason to lie. Whitney was adamant that they were just friends, that Whitney was not gay etc. What Robyn's selling now has allowed "fans" to dismiss Whitney's same sex experience as youthful "experimentation." Perhaps the memoir should have been titled "An Innin For You."

Believe me or anyone else in this thread or not, but mark my words: if Cissy and the family had just shut the fuck up (especially since Cissy had skeletons whose carpet[s] she munched in her closet), and if Robyn and Whitney had been allowed to be themselves, Whitney would still be here.

Whitney was a raging drug addict while Robyn was still in her life.

Oh, no question, r272; she'd still be smoking her damn knee caps off, as Katt Williams once put it. Who knows if she'd still have a career? But she might very well still be here, and happier for it if it was with Robyn.

She didn't want Robyn. Whitney and Robyn could have been together just like Dolly and her assistant, or Oprah and Gayle. Whitney deserves some pity but she was as ain't shit as her family members - neglecting her child, chasing after that idiot Bobby Brown. Whitney had a vocal talent. And she seems to have been rather a twit. Maybe she didn't deserve Robyn.

Whitney was using but wasnt spinning out of control until Bobby came into the picture. And even then, she was able to produce two great albums and several iconic movies because Robyn was present to modulate Bobbys influence. It was after she left that everything went to the dogs because Bobby had the full reigns.

Whitney stopped Robyn from getting a job with Arista after Robyn left her employ. Whitney had a mean streak in her.

Whitney never made even one great album.

r277 My Love is Your Love is a great contemporary R&B album and I’ll die on that hill. Whitney gets so much shit for that but ironically I can’t think of one Chaka album that people rave about. The same goes for Patti, Gladys, and many other music legends.

r274 The only thing that Whitney did wrong was not get sober for her child. I don’t see how she’s just as bad as her family or “a twit” for acting like an abused child and bartered wife. It’s incredibly sexist and I suspect racist.

r273 Kat Williams has smoked his own fucking kneecaps off.

I don’t know how anyone that’s read the book is still going on with the “homophobia” killed Whitney narrative. It was the least of her problems. Whitney would still be alive if she had an inch of self esteem and kicked her family out of her life the minute she signed her contract.

I don’t even think Robyn and Whitney are a two sided love story.

Fact: Robyn was madly in love with Whitney and still seems to love her.

Fact: Whitney was capable of sexual attraction to women.

Fact: Robyn was Whitney’s security blanket making her possessive and threatened by women she thought would take Robyn’s attention from her.

Fact: Whitney loved Robyn.

Despite all of that, I don’t get the sense that Whitney was *in love with* Robyn. I don’t know why some of you find it so hard to believe that she was bisexual with a preference for assholes with dicks. Even Robyn is bisexual, not a lesbian like you thought. I wish she wanted Robyn because she would have been a far better partner but it doesn’t seem like she did.

When exactly was it that Whitney began to show signs of being "off the rails"? Was it the reality show with Bobby or before that? I've always wondered when it was that it became visible that the real trouble began. How long after Robyn left that it was going to shit.

r280 I’m only 23 but she’s still held in high regard and drug use isn’t mentioned in the media clips I’ve seen from the My Love is Your Love era. The European portion of the 1999 tour went very well with every date sold out making it the highest selling tour of the year. Her voice in 1999 seems like a large improvement from 1997/1998 in the videos I’ve heard. I’m really curious why that is because it doesn’t seem like took much of a break or had a period of sobriety in the interim.

When she got back to the states for the remainder of the tour, it completely fell apart with many cancellations and poor reviews. I think Robyn had left the tour by that point.

Then she was busted for weed and fired from the Oscars in 2000. I think that was the point the drug rumors picked up steam. The Diane Sawyer interview in 2002 confirmed it. I imagine Being Bobby Brown was the point of no return for returning to her pristine image in the public eye. Bobby’s antics in the mid to late 90s were terrible press for her but I don’t think she was blamed.

As early as 1995, she’s clearly high in some of her public appearances but I’m not sure if people would have realized it at the time.

I think early 1999 was her last chance to divorce Bobby, toss away her family, and seek help without the public ever knowing the full dysfunction of her personal life.

There's an irony in that if Whitney had a possessive and domineering Robyn, she may still be here. Robyn loved her and was unable to be overbearing with her. Had she been a Tony Motolla type she might have been able to jettison the family and ensure Bobby was a one night stand. Robyn could even have steered Whitney into a marriage with a clean cut junior celebrity. Someone she could manage as well. Robyns inability to scheme and exploit her influence over Whitney was actually a bad thing.

Robyn is a woman. Whitney seemed to be able to assert herself with women - perhaps because Cissy, her female role model, did as well. When it came to asserting herself with men... it almost reads like Whitney was at sea. It's sort of fascinating.

Wouldn't men Robyn dated take the focus/time off of Whitney? Yet there was no slapping or confrontations over any beau Robyn had? Could it be that dating men was merely a going through the motions action for Robyn? For all Whitney's apparent churchyness, could it be that she knew a man would never Robyn's #1?

[Quote] It brought in the clouds.

Eddie and Jesus.

Robyn talks about Whitney standing "flat footed facing all the pressures from her career" and from the tabloids questions about Bobby's fuck ups. She talks about a strong Whitney so when was it that Whitney fell apart? When did she start her descent toward being a crack head?

I think Robyn is very invested in a particular narrative. "Cocaine can't go where we're going" yet the opposite the case. I think Whitney was a functioning addict whose functionality lessened over time, as is usually the case.

*yet the opposite was the case.

I don't think Whitney was any more of a coke addict than many in the industry at that time. You have to remember just about everybody was snorting coke in the 80's and that's not an exaggeration. I got into the film business in LA in '89 right as that industry was cleaning itself up from it's coke epidemic. Prop masters used to keep coke in the prop trucks as well as booze and anything else you wanted. Producers would go to the prop trucks to score, no exaggeration. So Whitney doing coke in the music industry in the 80's isn't surprising or a sign of anything. But becoming a crack head and turning into tabloid fodder when you still are on or close to the top or your industry. . . now that is something.

All the focus, drive, strength and discipline to party but not over indulge Whitney showed at the beginning had a breaking point.

"of your industry"

Perhaps you missed the part where I typed out the word "functioning."

[Quote] So Whitney doing coke in the music industry in the 80's isn't surprising or a sign of anything.

Starting to do coke at 14, though...?

[Quote] But becoming a crack head and turning into tabloid fodder when you still are on or close to the top or your industry. . . now that is something

And that "something" is: common. Lots of people spiral out of control in tandem with their success.

If she started at 14 that only goes to show she was a very functional user. Her career didn't take off until around 18 and she had a solid 15 years in which nobody had a clue.

[R277] My Love is Your Love is a great contemporary R&B album and I’ll die on that hill. Whitney gets so much shit for that but ironically I can’t think of one Chaka album that people rave about. The same goes for Patti, Gladys, and many other music legends.

Who are these people? Many, many people rave about Chaka's first FIVE solo albums -- all produced by Arif Mardin. Each one demonstrating better production quality and a significantly higher degree of musicianship than MLIYL -- produced mostly by people who cannot read or write music.

We all love Whitney but let's not be crazy about it.

MLIYL is better than the albums that came before it but don't tell me Lauryn Hill or Missy Elliott were firing on all cylinders with the tracks they gave Whitney.

Whitney was a mess from the beginning to end. It's amazing she achieved what she did and lasted as long as she did.

The tidbit about Michael cooking up God know's what with some of Whitney's spoons and Whitney asking to try some... it's awful. Those Houston children raised themselves/each other.

Nah. It would be physically impossible to accomplish all that she did in the state she was in her final days. Don't know why people don't get that recreational coke is not just possible but very common.

I read comments from a Brit music industry guy who worked with Whitney pre Bobby, and also with Bobby. He said Bobby was basically the scum of the earth. Anyway, Whitney wasn't a walk in the park but she was civil. It wasn't uncommon to have to reschedule promo for her because she was sleeping off the night before, though.

Bobby was absolute garbage. He destroyed whatever productivity Whitney had in her despite her drug use. I'm pretty sure it was intentional. Just a shitty person incapable of not being the center of the universe for a minute

I want to know why a grade schooler was hired to do the cover (?)

[Quote] I want to know why a grade schooler was hired to do the cover (?)

It's very bootleg, isn't it? I presume Robyn owns the copyright to the photograph so that was a no-brainer.

r300 Until the weekend of her death, it seemed like her worst days were behind her. Obviously her voice was shot to death and probably would have never fully recovered but she seemed so much more stable during the filming of Sparkle. She even looked better than she had in a while. You would think if she was going to die, it would have been in 2000-2006. That was peak deranged, disheveled, skeletal Whitney.

Nah, the most dangerous time for a drug addict is after they've got clean (or at least mostly clean). The body can't return to what it used to be able to endure. C.f. Amy Winehouse.

R305, her speaking voice doesn't seem too bad in that clip. I agree that she could no longer sing some of her big hits like IWALY anymore, but at least she didn't have that awful, raspy tone in her speaking voice like she did in the Diane Sawyer interview or in seemingly every interview during the Waiting to Exhale / Preacher's Wife period.

I agree r302 I think Bobby had that love you/hate you thing going on with Whitney and he took pleasure in harming her.

I made the mistake of dating a thug in my early 20's. On the one hand he was thrilled to be with me and would be so vulnerable and loving. . . but he would do the most fucked up things. Let people steal from me, mock me. He actually seemed to enjoy it when something fucked up would happen to me. With people like that their self esteem is so low no matter how positive you are or how bright you shine they can not benefit from it, so to be comfortable around you they have to drag you down where they are.

I think part of the reason Robyn wanted to tell her story is to make it clear that yes Whitney had her struggles but Bobby Brown is a pig who never deserved what he had. I do believe a bit of this is to leave no doubt what a horrible human he was with Whitney.

r295 it's called recreational drug use.

The takeaway I get from the whole thing is that Whitney's quote about being her own devil is damn true.

Recreational at 14?

Yes dummy.

Foolish fool.

r308 It’s probably deeply hurtful to her that the narrative for the last few years has been rewritten that Bobby was a good ol’ boy and Whitney ruined his life by getting him on drugs. Many of his bandmates/friends have already admitted that he was reckless and on drugs before Whitney but people refuse to believe it. Bobby and Whitney have also been romanticized as this wild but loving couple. “Crackhead Love”

At least that’s the viewpoint of a good chunk of the Black community. The minute the world found out she was on drugs before him, every stupid or monstrous thing Bobby went out the window.

I don't think Bobby Brown's image has been rehabilitated that much. One of his more recent claims was that he's been sober for 15 years. No one believes that. His biopic didn't go down to well either (unlike the New Edition one).

r307 You’re right, her tone sounds a lot less raspy but her breathing is a bit labored.

r315 His image has been rehabilitated more than he deserves.

R314 Yes I've noticed that new Poor Bobby narrative from black bloggers. It's very specifically the ones who think being a free thinker entails disputing every popular opinion.

Twitter dykes are upset that the love story wasn’t what they were expecting so they are claiming that Whitney abused Robyn by stringing men in front of her. I’m sorry, was Robyn forced to hang around? If Whitney was a closet case, bisexual, or whatever, Robyn could have got up and left at any moment. She still in love with her all these years later, pitiful. If not for Bobby, she’s still be hanging around a still alive(sober or high) Whitney’s coattails in the shadows. I have no idea why she’s being turned into a Martyr because she waited around hoping to possess someone that she was never going to have. She realized that when Whitney started obsessing over Eddie so why didn’t she just leave?

Who said Robyn was waiting around to get something she's never had? She had "it" pre-record contract.

Robyn stopped being Whitney's personal assistant. Someone called Sylvia took over and Robyn would be called in when Sylvia couldn't cope (e.g. when Whitney flew out to surprise Bobby while he was on tour, and he spat in Whitney's face). Robyn made a good living during Whitney's salad days. She likely told herself that Whitney was strong, Whitney would wear herself out with Bobby and Whitney would eventually give him the heave-ho. I don't think Robyn expected to become David Furnish to Whitney's Elton.

And it was abusive of Whitney to not only stick her nose into Robyn's (same sex) dating life but to fire a dancer over it. In the Red Table talk interview with Jada Pinkett (cough), Robyn plays that off as not jealousy, but Whitney protecting their bond. Robyn's clearly very invested in a narrative that doesn't sound like the truth.

Once instance when Whitney was 22-24? Robyn slapped Whitney in the face for dating Jermaine. She didn’t disrupt Robyn’s other relationships.

Whitney dated multiple guys in front of her. She wanted to stick around for the lifestyle, fine. She should have romantically disconnected long before even the wedding. Fuck waiting for Whitney to exhaust herself. She could have still been a friend without waiting to be chosen.

I feel sorry that she lost someone she cared about to substance abuse but I don’t feel sorry for her wasting years of her life and giving up her own aspirations for someone who told her point, blank, period, she wouldn’t be with her in the public. She made a choice.

What do you think is the real narrative?

[quote] I feel sorry that she lost someone she cared about to substance abuse but I don’t feel sorry for her wasting years of her life and giving up her own aspirations for someone who told her point, blank, period, she wouldn’t be with her in the public. She made a choice.

Oh, gurl...Robyn has been married for over 15 years. She is the mother of 2 beautiful children who must eat and go to college one day. She did not write the book to get your sympathy or pity. She wrote it for the $$$.

It represents her side of the story. There are usually, at least, 17 sides to every story.

r321 Shame on her then. No need for people to keep exposing that she was Whitney’s guardian angel. She claims that she would never betray Whitney, what they had was beautiful, and that she wants to “uplift her”. It’s all just a load of bullshit. What they had was fucked up, she’s created another reason for people to say the woman she loved is a bad person, and she did betray her.

She only looks good because the other people surrounding Whitney were the scum of the earth.

Wife and kids, whatever, she obviously still has it bad for Whitney. If Whitney had gotten sober and sought out Robyn, she would have left her family in a heartbeat.

R322, Whitney is gone. Robyn is here. She has a right to tell her story. She has betrayed no one.

Personally, I am glad she did because she has been unfairly maligned by some and unnecessarily deified by others. She is a real person, she is no one's savior. What is clear from EVERY story is that Whitney was a strong-willed, determined and deeply troubled person. We are all responsible for ourselves.

Robyn's book doesn't lift up Whitney at all. Whitney was a terrible friend to Robyn who hung around way too long. The book shows her as a terrible mother, with her and Brown going into their bedroom for days apparently getting high even after BK was born. Whitney treated Robyn like shit and she was high most of the time. Robyn was an outsider because she stopped using drugs. Whitney really doesn't seem like she was a likeable person in any way, and she was too wasted to be a good mom to Krissy.

I think Robyn had a few intentions in writing this book.

She wanted money.

She wanted to be seen for who she is and not how Bobby Brown or the Houston bio pics choose to portray her.

And I believe she thought she would elevate Whitney's image and make her loved and human but she failed at that. Unfortunately the more I looked at Whitney the person because of this book, the less I like her . That hurts because I really loved her for her beauty and voice that's all been tarnished now.

So did Robyn just pine for Whitney all those years or did she have other girlfriends?

Under what rock have you been hiding? No one has been living under the illusion that the Browns were good parents. It's been long established that Whitney's drug use increased after getting married... Bobby and Whitney became tabloid mainstays... fast forward to "Being Bobby Brown" etc.

Robyn's wife Lisa must be one patient, understanding person. Whitney seems to have been hovering over their relationship since the beginning. If Whitney had called on her, Robyn would have left Lisa and their two kids and run back to Whitney. She never got over Whitney, and Whitney was shitty to her.

And yet, Robyn married and adopted two kids. Her wife joins the Red Talk table briefly at the end of the Jada Pinkett interview. I think some people are overly invested in the "pathetic Robyn" storyline they've concocted.

And Lisa said it was frustrating every time Whitney did something people were calling Robyn about it. Whitney is still there in their relationship..

Yes cruel, evil Whitney. Who cares about the abuse done to her. Who cares about anecdotes about her kindness from friends and colleagues. She payed for the cancer treatment of her background dancer no questions asked. She spent lavish amounts of money on friends including Robyn, so horrible. Robyn wanted to uplift Whitney but didn’t take time to describe the loving, kind, and generous woman that countless others have described with noting to gain from it? Yeah, right.

Tragic Kurt, Marilyn, Judy, etc. The public has never emphasized or sympathized with a Black woman in the same way as others. I knew that when no one cared when it came out she was molested that no one would ever feel sympathy for her.

Even in the 80s, people were itching for her to fall off that pedestal before it happened and you wonder why she clung so hard to it? Every human flaw is magnified. Look at how people treat Beyoncé for being seemingly perfect.

She couldn’t be a good mom because of her drug addiction. We already knew this. Whitney even admitted that as a regret during her period of sobriety in 2009. Criticize her on that until the end of time. She didn’t do anything wrong to anyone else.

Whitney took care of Robyn for her most of her adult life and loved it and wanted her. That’s why she choose to stick around while she watched her friend be slowly killed by her family, career, and husband. I don’t feel sorry for her.

Why do you idiots keep bringing up her the white wife and kids. Her body language when talking about Whitney says it all. She would drop them in heartbeat if Whitney woke from the dead. She settled in her old age.

I’m sorry how, how was Whitney horrible for financially supporting a grown woman older than herself for nearly 20 years? Robyn admitted that even before fame, Whitney paid for everything. They broke up in 82. There were immature incidents on both their parts while they were in their early 20s. After that, Robyn dated whoever she wanted. Whitney is horrible because she told Robyn the terms early on and that her relationships with other people were real? It wasn’t the intense monogamous pre-Bobby Brown love story you all thought and no you’re angry?

I guess Whitney should have just fired her best friend and told her to piss off early on but she would have been horrible for that too.

She had to pick Robyn or no one at all????

r325 You loved her for her beauty and talent and that’s all been tarnished now? Qwite interesting. Lol, get a grip on that dildo far up your ass sis. You’re sad.

Sorry, R331. I'm not one of those who put junkie trash like Cobain, Judy Gargoyle and Liza Minnelli on a pedestal. They were addicts who get a pass from the white people who worship them and their destructive, horrifying behaviour gets excused repeatedly. Garland especially seems to have been a complete cunt who exploited everyone around her for her own selfish needs.

However I'll also say that although Whitney may have been a nice person, the more I find out about her, the less likeable I find her. Even without the drugs she carried a certain arrogance and entitlement that we often see in brats from rich or well-connected families. What I find especially off-putting is her feeling of smug superiority tied to her religious beliefs. When I watch interviews or old award show clips I am repulsed by the use of her Jesus as her crutch and excuse for every goddamn thing, as though her personal religious beliefs made her a better human being than everyone else. I still admire the talent but her constant anger and irritability in her public appearances make her look unbearable and like a bitch on wheels.

I miss Whitney. She was The Voice. And such beauty. The whole package. What a star. But, she was her own worst enemy. I hope she is resting in peace. Love her.

I'm glad Robyn cleaned up and got better.

Whitney and Bobby made themselves a laughing stock. Has Prince's mode of death affected his standing? I don't think so.

And you musn't know much about Garland if you think the gross details of her life aren't pored over. There was a helper who wrote a book that talked about Garland slitting her wrists and the blood launching into the assistant's face... Garland has never been "protected" or the nitty gritty glossed over.

[Quote] and that her relationships with other people were real?

I don't think anyone here wants to think about Jermaine Jackson having sex with anybody.

I think it's very odd that you harp on this point. You're invested in Whitney and, say, Eddie Murphy, because? Bi erasure?

I am pleased that Robyn debunked the false allegation that Whitney was abused by Dee Dee Warwick. Robyn said definitively that if it happened Whitney would have told her and she has no knowledge of it having happened. She said Whitney loved Dee Dee. Robyn related a story of how she and Whitney would visit Dee Dee in NYC.

She didn’t debunk anything and as a child molestation victim, it’s incredibly annoying that anyone would say something like that. Whitney being molested as a child doesn’t negate what they might have shared. It doesn’t mean Whitney was “turned out”. There are many LGB youth that suffered same sex child molestation and it has no bearing on their orientation.

I was molested by an older male cousin and I have never told anyone, not my parents or my closet friends. I’m Bi and I don’t feel it has anything to do with it.

Whitney not telling Robyn doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. She was obviously working with some serious demons at an incredibly young age. Her too older brothers also. I don’t think a mean and distant mommy and daddy were the only factors.

I believe it did happen and further inhibited her from accepting her attraction to women. If it wasn’t Dee Dee, it was probably someone else. It might have even been one of her brothers. All three of those kids were left to their own devices and sent from home to home while Cissy way on tour. We already know of one incident where 4-7 year old Whitney ended up with a hanger shoved down her throat while playing alone with Michael. Whitney told the story many times in interviews as if it was a cute accident.

Child sexual abuse within the family tends to be completely hidden away and ignored in Black families. Look at Oprah and Tyler Perry’s experiences. In fact, Whitney seemed to bond deeply with Tyler at some point. I wonder if that was a reason why?

Deedee sounds creepy as fuck in Robyn’s encounter anyway. She rolled up a joint and stuck it in a teenage girls mouth? How young was Whitney when she started doing that?

The more one reads about poor Whitney's childhood, the more it starts to seem that John and Cissy Houston weren't very good parents. Ok, they weren't as awful as Whitney and Bobbbaaayyy were but neither of Whitney's parents was ever going to be named "Parent of the Year".

The one I feel really sorry for is poor Bobbi Kristina. She was a sweet, polite little kid who deserved better, responsible parents. That child never stood a chance, growing up in a toxic family.

r339 How do you know they were better than Whitney and Bobby? BK grew up into a hideous woman with a terrible singing voice. The only thing I ever heard about her before she died is that she didn’t measure up to a cm of her mother’s former glory. That’s what people would still say if she were alive. The faux sympathy for her is nauseating and brought on by hatred for her parents more than genuine concern for anything she might have suffered.

r339 How do you know they were better than Whitney and Bobby? BK grew up into a hideous woman with a terrible singing voice. The only thing I ever heard about her before she died is that she didn’t measure up to a cm of her mother’s former glory. That’s what people would still say if she were alive. The faux sympathy for her is nauseating and brought on by hatred for her parents more than genuine concern for anything she might have suffered.

I don't know if Krissy was a sweet, polite kid. Whenever I saw her she was sullen and miserable looking. After Whitney died there were plenty of stories about her nasty behaviour with neighbors, and just in general. She definitely got screwed with two parents who were junkies, and pawned her off to family members when they were too wasted to bother, which was probably most of the time.

[Quote] Whitney not telling Robyn doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Of course not. But what's the likelihood that Whitney would tell the woman in the documentary and not Robyn?

The woman in the documentary is Pat's aunt and that's the narrative Pat wanted to go with. I don't believe a word that comes out of Pat or her family's mouth.

r342 I’ve seen photos of her looking quite happy and she seemed to worship her mother. Absentee parenting is absentee parenting regardless of the reason so that would put Whitney equal to her parents or slightly better considering there are no accounts of her verbally or physically abusing her child. I’ve never heard accounts of her being nasty to her neighbors or nasty in general. Did you read that in a rag magazine?

Even if Whitney got sober early on, BK was doomed to be fucked up the minute she came out of the womb looking and sounding like pure Bobby Brown spawn. In the same way that Blu Ivy is bound to have serious issues. I remember when people mocked her when she said she was going to continue her mother’s legacy as a singer.

You can probably count on both hands how many wealthy and famous parents are hands on in their kid’s life either way. You can’t tell me Tom Hanks was a good father with how his oldest turned out.

So you’ll believe that she was a nasty, cruel woman from whatever rag magazine but refuse to believe that serious childhood trauma might have have been a major reason for her drug use?

Yeah, 10-14 year old kids just found coke and heroin on their own and did it for fun? Whatever adult gave it to them wasn’t crossing any other fucked up boundaries?

I remember an interview in 1990 where Whitney is asked about her dislikes. It’s a very casual question and out of nowhere she says that she hates adults that abuse kids, she goes on about it like it’s personal, and she’s not high. Explain that.

Her brothers also talked about it. They all started using at extremely young ages. Robyn saw with her own eyes, Dee Dee Warwick shove drugs in an underage girls mouth. That’s skeevy.

Whitney was 17 when she met Robyn. When did this Dee Dee encounter happen? And are you suggesting that the weed give more credence to the sex abuse claims levelled against Dee Dee?

[quote] She didn’t debunk anything and as a child molestation victim, it’s incredibly annoying that anyone would say something like that. Whitney being molested as a child doesn’t negate what they might have shared. It doesn’t mean Whitney was “turned out”. There are many LGB youth that suffered same sex child molestation and it has no bearing on their orientation.

She absolutely debunked it. Please be as incredibly annoyed as you like and see link below. You have not heard from a reliable or credible source that Whitney was sexually molested by her female cousin. Whitney did not tell you she was molested. It was a claim implied by her crackhead brother and made by a paid participant in a film.

Whitney did not tell Robyn that she was molested by Dee Dee. Robyn and Whitney spent time with Dee Dee. Robyn insists that she would know if it was true. I believe Robyn. It is something she would have revealed to her best friend -- or her husband -- and you did not hear it from either of them.

Whoever you are, this has nothing to do with your situation and it is not my intent to diminish what happened to you or the pain it has caused you. I am only talking about Whitney -- and Robyn

This blog comment is interesting. It further supports the claim in the article, from an Arista employee, that Whitney and Robyn were seen being intimate long past 1982...

[Quote] Back in the 1980’s, I was living in South Orange, New Jersey and I would often take my dogs for a walk up at the South Mountain Reservation, a five thousand acre park within the Essex County Park System.

[Quote] On this one day during one of the summer months, I decided to stay off of the main walkways in the reservation and opted for the dirt paths that cut through the woods, which are so prevalent up on this mountain range. (locally referred to as “first mountain”)

[Quote] As we (my two retrievers & myself) walked through the untraveled wooded areas, we came across two black women sitting on a fallen dead tree and they were very heavily into “getting business done”.

[Quote] As a understanding & compassionate gay young man, I decided to alter my route and give them their privacy. (This section of South Mountain Reservation was a well know cruising area visited mostly (99.9%) by gay men back in the 1970’s & 80’s).

[Quote] After finishing our walk in the woods, I came back to the parking area, and since it was a beautiful day, I decided to sit on one of the park benches and just rest and people watch for a while.

[Quote] After about twenty minutes, the two black women I observed in the woods, came walking out to their waiting parked car (a BMW) and it was then that I realized that one of them was Whitney Houston. The other women… I had no idea who she was….until now, after reading your blog and seeing the above photo of them together.

[Quote] Thank you for writing this piece, David. You possess a wonderful talent for the written word, and I for one, am very jealous of you.

[Quote] I love the way you write and strongly believe that you should have a MUCH broader & public venue. Perhaps one day….

[Quote] Peace…..and please, don’t stop writing !!!!!

[Quote] -Mike Flores

[Quote] I failed to mention above (and just as a after thought)… Whitney’s cousin, Dionne Warwick, lived in a huge house just a quarter of a mile from the entrance to this reservation/park, also in South Orange. This neighborhood is known for its multi-million dollar mansions and elaborate landscaping. Dionne has sold that house since that time, but now I wonder if Whitney & Robyn were staying in that large house together and given shelter by their understanding cousin, Dionne.

This blog comment is interesting. It further supports the claim in the article, from an Arista employee, that Whitney and Robyn were seen being intimate long past 1982...

[Quote] Back in the 1980’s, I was living in South Orange, New Jersey and I would often take my dogs for a walk up at the South Mountain Reservation, a five thousand acre park within the Essex County Park System.

[Quote] On this one day during one of the summer months, I decided to stay off of the main walkways in the reservation and opted for the dirt paths that cut through the woods, which are so prevalent up on this mountain range. (locally referred to as “first mountain”)

[Quote] As we (my two retrievers & myself) walked through the untraveled wooded areas, we came across two black women sitting on a fallen dead tree and they were very heavily into “getting business done”.

[Quote] As a understanding & compassionate gay young man, I decided to alter my route and give them their privacy. (This section of South Mountain Reservation was a well know cruising area visited mostly (99.9%) by gay men back in the 1970’s & 80’s).

[Quote] After finishing our walk in the woods, I came back to the parking area, and since it was a beautiful day, I decided to sit on one of the park benches and just rest and people watch for a while.

[Quote] After about twenty minutes, the two black women I observed in the woods, came walking out to their waiting parked car (a BMW) and it was then that I realized that one of them was Whitney Houston. The other women… I had no idea who she was….until now, after reading your blog and seeing the above photo of them together.

[Quote] Thank you for writing this piece, David. You possess a wonderful talent for the written word, and I for one, am very jealous of you.

[Quote] I love the way you write and strongly believe that you should have a MUCH broader & public venue. Perhaps one day….

[Quote] Peace…..and please, don’t stop writing !!!!!

[Quote] -Mike Flores

[Quote] I failed to mention above (and just as a after thought)… Whitney’s cousin, Dionne Warwick, lived in a huge house just a quarter of a mile from the entrance to this reservation/park, also in South Orange. This neighborhood is known for its multi-million dollar mansions and elaborate landscaping. Dionne has sold that house since that time, but now I wonder if Whitney & Robyn were staying in that large house together and given shelter by their understanding cousin, Dionne.

[quote]I don't know if Krissy was a sweet, polite kid. Whenever I saw her she was sullen and miserable looking.

R342, I meant when Bobbi Kristina was very young. In every Whitney interview in the 90s or even the early 00s, BK came across as a quiet, sweet and shy little girl. If she grew up to be a sullen, miserable teenager, the poor kid had every excuse. She had a fucked up upbringing with two addicts as her parents.

[quote]The faux sympathy for her is nauseating and brought on by hatred for her parents more than genuine concern for anything she might have suffered.

Get off your high horse, R341. How the fuck do you know that my sympathy for BK isn't real? The poor girl didn't choose her parents and, like every child, she deserved to have a stable and happy childhood. If Whitney and Bobby were too busy getting high they had no business having a child. They were both awful parents and deserve all the censure.