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The turning point for BARBRA STREISAND

Barbra Streisand is one of the last great stars who emerged at the end of the old star system and embodied what many of the greatest talents in the history of film and music had, which was intense charisma and star voltage that electrified both stage and screen. Beauty was often secondary and emerged as the result of genuine talent and hard work that would cripple today’s media parasites, such as the Kardashians.

It is that star voltage that is lacking in pretty much every female “star” under 40 today. Barbra displayed talent that none of the creatures in Hollywood today could begin to possess and a drive to persevere in a male-dominated, beauty obsessed world of 1960s Hollywood that would have destroyed most others. She not only survived but succeeded beyond measure. The gay male initially supported her in abundance, because she, like he, was an aberration to convention, and her voice spoke and sang in kinship with his oppression. She was different and, for the first time, “different” was being celebrated. Conventionally attractive, no. Alluring features, yes. Film is not about truth, it’s about illusion, and Barbra epitomizes that notion. When illusion is manufactured to precision, it not only becomes truth, it transcends it.

Barbra has evolved into the butt of tremendous hostility and derision among the gays. Maybe it’s the millennial and Gen-Z gay who was raised on modern musical sensibilities and doesn’t process the torch singer aspect. Why would a gay today want to hear a woman singing about the man that got away? And how would they know about oppression, when they’re in a time when being gay is just so “in” and they’re the sought-after guests at every party, the child that every parent longs for, and the new breed of parents who are going to teach the straight world how it’s done.

I can always remember Barbra as a “do-no-wrong” amongst the gays and the performer for whom they anticipated and held their breath for every new project, album, and the "impossible" possibility that she would sing live again. Well, that happened in 1993-94. If you could afford it, you had your opportunity to witness her beauty for yourself. But there would be a change. Perhaps, the change happened after “The Mirror Has Two Faces.” That seemed to be the turning point in her career, at least film wise. There was the constant deliberation about “The Normal Heart,” which as Larry Kramer emphasized, could have been financed by Streisand for as little as 15 million dollars as a high-end independent film. Instead, she chose to recreate Nantucket on her 17 acres in Malibu complete with man-made ponds of color-coordinated fish, grandma’s ranch house, and a subterranean shopper’s world.

Perhaps, this was when the gays began to see Barbra in a different light, and perhaps, not as beautiful as she had once seemed to them. Maybe it’s because she didn’t descend into a train wreck like Garland, but emerged with tremendous wealth and her musical legacy intact. Or maybe because illusion fades with time, and the real being underneath comes to the surface. Like the old adage: “When you’re young, you get the face that God gave you. When you’re old, you get the face that you deserve.” When do you feel the turning point began for Barbra? When the voice aged, when politics overtook artistry, when the mad attempt to stay relevant compromised innovation? When the elder gays who worshipped her went home to Jesus? Talk amongst yourselves...

by Anonymousreply 21November 9, 2019 2:26 PM

What's with the multitude of anti-Streisand threads recently, all about how dated she is? Have they all been started by you, OP?

by Anonymousreply 1November 6, 2019 12:51 PM

[quote]When the elder gays who worshipped her went home to Jesus?

Wha'?

[quote]Talk amongst yourselves...

Thank you, m'lady.

by Anonymousreply 2November 6, 2019 12:57 PM

I hung in there a long time, almost 30 years. The last straw for me was the horrible CD A Love Like Ours from 1998-99, and accompanying insert with pics and liner notes exploiting her new marriage. You may have liked it, I could take no more of her. Oh yeah, I did see that Fockers movie on TV.

by Anonymousreply 3November 6, 2019 2:22 PM

Post descends into blather. She is an activist, philanthropist, singer and performer in her late career. Catch her last song on her last concert DCD (I Didn't Know What Time It Was). Saw her live at a political event in 2016- she more or less stunned the audience. She remains a peerless vocalist with all the tics of her aging voice. It's simple. Gay men today like lots of young people just don't know what they don't know. As they grow older they learn- or at least most do. Streisand is very much the same person she was 40 years ago- hard working, talented, private and in full control of her career- driven to create whether sketching, building, singing whatever. She remains devoted to her political beliefs- and that was all there when she was in her early 20s touring the South doing MLK benefits- donating her Funny Girl salary to a hospital in Israel after the '67 war. She's supremely talented, shy and private, and tough as nails. Also not perfect. She puts her foot in her mouth from time to time, owns it and gets right back out there politically. Her career is not dependent on being a gay icon- never has been. If you attended one or her concerts its pretty obvious. Sure there are gay men (and women) in the audience. But they are very much in the minority. She is simply a great star with huge talent and perhaps the largest catalogue of music among all popular singers . If she has fallen out with young gay men- who cares? I'm sure she does not lose sleep over it. She knows what she has done and continues to do for the LGBT community- and some of us older gay men and lesbians know what she did and has done for us.

by Anonymousreply 4November 6, 2019 2:28 PM

charlie, learn how to use paragraphs.

by Anonymousreply 5November 6, 2019 3:14 PM

Clearly, OP failed freshman composition.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to put your point in the first paragraph, then use the remaining text to provide support for that point, rather than wandering aimlessly until you drive toward some point in the closing sentence?

You're not writing a mystery novel. Your point is NOT enhanced by keeping it a secret until the very end for a dramatic reveal.

by Anonymousreply 6November 6, 2019 5:08 PM

LOL @ R6

by Anonymousreply 7November 6, 2019 5:19 PM

Barbra Streisand is irrelevant to anyone under 50. There are people in their 20s who have never even heard of her, let alone like her.

by Anonymousreply 8November 6, 2019 5:56 PM

[quote] Beauty was often secondary and emerged as the result of genuine talent and hard work that would cripple today’s media parasites, such as the Kardashians.

Mary!

by Anonymousreply 9November 6, 2019 5:58 PM

they're doing a remake of The Turning Point with Barbra Streisand?

t

by Anonymousreply 10November 6, 2019 6:03 PM

The turning point was sometime in the 70s when rock music became more and more popular. Barbra's music REALLY started sounding pre-modern at that point. And she's only faded further and further away in the memory of non-new yorkers and non-gays since then.

by Anonymousreply 11November 6, 2019 6:09 PM

She could never pick quality movies to save her life. Her best work was over by the mid 70's and the only films of hers that hold up are The Way We Were and What's Up Doc. Moments of Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly still work, but the films themselves are a bit too long and bloated to sustain interest these days.

Her biggest issue has always been her indecisiveness and laziness. She'll be offered a role and mull it over for years. Most actors think it over for a week or so, weigh the pros and cons, and accept or decline. Had she done something like Gypsy in the 80's or 90's, it could have reignited her career and she could have been taken seriously as an actress again, but she turned down offer after offer to do it and waited until she was 30 years too old for the role.

by Anonymousreply 12November 6, 2019 6:11 PM

R12 I so agree. And on top of that, she vacillated on "The Normal Heart" until it was no longer the timely and poignant movie it could have been. Had it been made in the late 80s to early 90s, when the need for effective medication protocol was critical, Streisand could have been offering the greatest service to her beloved gay community. The funding was never an issue for someone of Streisand's wealth. She had the money and the clout to get any movie made. All it would have taken was one additional tour, and she could have independently financed the film and reaped 100% of the profits. Larry Kramer has actually been gracious in his assessment, at least on the record.

He stated that Barbra had very little understanding of gay men and gay love. For someone who had immersed herself in the Greenwich Village culture of the early 1960s, she obviously had learned little. Perhaps, the real reason "The Normal Heart" never got made was the fear of alienating her core heterosexual audience. Gays may have discovered her, but the hetero fraus, in particular, had become her most ardent admirers by the 1980s. She was more of a voice for feminism than she was for gay rights. Barbra had mainstreamed over the course of the decades, and the once anti-establishment kook, had ascended to become the quintessence of the establishment. Accordingly, there was concern that the movie might be too controversial, and perhaps, it was. That was why she needed to make it. She was one of the few in Hollywood who had the star power to command attention and elicit action at a time when it was needed the most.

Instead, she chose the vapid, self-serving "Mirror Has Two Faces" to reiterate her undying yen to be seen as beautiful and desirable, and consequently, fucked up her film career ever since. Defend her all you want, but she has not made one quality film since and probably won't. Some of the elder gays that spent hundreds, if not thousands, patronizing record stores, movie theatres, and what few concerts she deigned to do, may have felt that she would have chosen to give back to those who had given to her so fervently. And sadly, many of those are no longer with us.

by Anonymousreply 13November 6, 2019 6:42 PM

Nobody cares except all the old gay guys. She needs to be put to sleep like and old wore out dog.

by Anonymousreply 14November 6, 2019 6:52 PM

R8 I am under 50 and traveled all the way to London this summer just to see her live one more time. 70k other people did the same thing.

by Anonymousreply 15November 6, 2019 6:58 PM

R14 gets a very special Fuck Off and ff. Karma comin’ your way.

by Anonymousreply 16November 6, 2019 7:04 PM

"Barbra had very little understanding of gay men and gay love."

What do you mean? Her first serious boyfriend was gay.

by Anonymousreply 17November 6, 2019 11:11 PM

[quote]Larry Kramer has actually been gracious in his assessment, at least on the record.

Like when he outed Jason Gould as being HIV positive? Hardly gracious. Barbra's the one that hasn't made it a point to trash him in public.

The whole project fell apart because they disagreed over one line of dialogue. Barbra felt that people were still the same in spite of their differences. Kramer felt that being different defined a person and that there were no similarities among gays and straights. She wanted the line changed, he didn't.

Honestly, it would have been a flat out miracle for that movie to have been made with the two of them at the helm. Streisand's controlling reputation was common knowledge by that point, so if Kramer didn't know what he was getting into when he agreed to work with him, then he should have done his homework.

by Anonymousreply 18November 6, 2019 11:29 PM

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

by Anonymousreply 19November 9, 2019 1:41 PM

It's tiresome when fans persist in trolling about their idols. Streisand emerged after the star system had died. She's really more an artifact of the end of Broadway's mid-century heyday and the end of pop music mixing with rock and the end of Top 40 AM radio's heyday. She's controlling, self-absorbed and rich enough to live comfortably that way. She really doesn't owe us anything and whether or not she revels in being a gay icon is pretty irrelevant. She may tempt people when there's a rumor of a tour or a new release, but she's really just history now.

by Anonymousreply 20November 9, 2019 2:09 PM

The Judy had a good heart troll strikes again! (R19)

by Anonymousreply 21November 9, 2019 2:26 PM
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