How painful it must have been for Robyn to be Whitney’s side bitch for so many years

I don't think Robyn was ever a side piece. Did she stay around in her ex's life longer than she should have? Probably. But that's the lesbian way.

r1 So you think they were just friends in the 90s? It’s already confirmed that she would get into physical altercations with Bobby. What’s that all about then?

I blame Cissy and her homophobic family. I hate them. I especially hate Cissy.I've seen the documentaries. Bobby was a piece of shit.

The Closet Kills

Whitney Houston - I'm Your Baby Tonight

1:26 the gloved hand is Robyn dressed in male drag.

When I first read this title, I thought you were referring to [italic] this [/italic] Robyn, who, as a white woman from Sweden, believed she knew more about African culture than black people in the United States. It's at 2:44 if it doesn't automatically go to that part.

r6 Please go away

What could she do? Whitney didn't have the guts to stand up to the world and her family for her true love. It is what it is. I can't stand any of Whitney's family. I've seen all the docs and specials and the family comes across worse and worse with each viewing. R6 Take that shit somewhere else.

r6 She’s quite the beast

r6

Wow. Has she been raked over the coals for that?

r8 She would have had to give up literally everything for Robyn. Her career, faith, image, family, friends, wealth, etc. That’s not an any easy choice to make and most people wouldn’t be able to do it, even for true love. Look how close they came to destroying Ellen after she came out, it would have been even worse for Whitney. Obviously we know it went wrong anyway but hindsight is 20/20. I don’t blame Whitney for not coming out, I blame the world she lived in.

Also, I know many on datalounge don’t believe she was molested but if it happened, it’s even less surprising that she had issues with accepting her sexuality.

I wonder if Whitney had been able to come out publicly when she first became a big star, and was able to be with Robyn openly, if she would have ever gotten into drugs. I sort of doubt it.

Whitney did drugs from a young age. Her brother has talked about trying heroin when he was barely in double digits.

r12 I think she would still have used because her problems went beyond her sexuality and her older brothers would have still been negative influences in her life. Robyn would have been a strong, sober support system that might have stopped it from going completely off the rails though. She was the first person to express concern about Whitney’s drug use.

Where do most of you fall when it comes to Whitney’s sexuality? I lean towards bisexual rather than lesbian. The lust/unhealthy codependency she displayed with Bobby seemed genuine.

The story about Whitney locking herself in her room with a purple dildo rather suggests Bobby wasn't needed for more than photo ops and award shows.

The story that's been painted suggests that for much of Whitney's childhood, Cissy was never there. Her session singer work was almost like a factor job. Sessions could be early, middday, late into the night and into the early morning. The father spent a lot of time visiting women, did he not? It wouldn't surprise me if Whitney was abused by the brother with the hardcore habit.

*factory

R7 You first.

R8 No.

R10 No, which I'm surprised about. Guess Black Twitter hasn't found it yet.

r15 Is the “story about the purple dildo” something said by a reliable source is this just made up gossip like her alleged love triangle with Jodie Foster

She had multiple miscarriages so she had to have been fucking some man.

It just makes no sense for her to put up with over 14 years of verbal and physical abuse for a beard. They separated for the first time in 1995, she could have easily divorced him then having satisfied the public by having a baby and a failed marriage. She could have even gone out and got another beard. She had to have felt something towards him which is why I lean towards bisexual.

She let a beard slice her face open? I can’t accept that level of insanity.

Whitney was an addict. Bobby is an addict. Trying to find sense in their choices while both were in the throes of addiction is futile.

[Quote] Is the “story about the purple dildo” something said by a reliable source

I think it came out when Bobby's sister sold pics of Whitney's bathroom.

As I have said before and will say again for the young ones who missed it, back in the 80's in New York if you were gay and had lesbian friends who clubbed they would have told you excitedly about the times they'd see Robyn and Whitney come to SheScape. It was common knowledge around the gay clubs at that time that Whitney Houston was gay and was with Robyn.

Remember there was no social media, we were out in our own community and everyone talked about it but we talked about it with each other.

Was it the American Music Awards where Whitney had Robyn on one side of her and Whitney's parents on the other? She thanked Robyn from stage as well IIRC.

R21 Being in a relationship with a woman doesn’t make you a lesbian, it makes you attracted to women. Sexuality is a spectrum.

r19 Shitty fucking reasoning.

Datalounge hates bisexuals.

Oprah did an interview with the Houston family not too long after Whitney's death. Her brother Michael talks about introducing Whitney to crack.

He doesn't say it in this clip but I'm sure I've seen a clip where he admits that the reason he did it was to bring her down a few pegs. He felt she was getting to big for herself and he thought getting her into drugs would bring her down to his level.

r20 Not a reliable source.

r24 He didn’t say crack, he said cocaine.

If she did not have an actual sexual relationship with Bobby, where did the miscarriages come from? At least one in 1992, again in 1994, and another in 1996, all confirmed with possible others. There was also the whole pregnancy in 1993 in case anyone forgot.

Michael was the brother she was playing with as a child with a hanger somehow got lodged in her throat.

Same Oprah interview Oprah talks with Cissy about the rumors about Whitney and Robyn.

Didn't know that one r26.

r28 She told the story many times in interviews in a cutesy way but it’s disturbing in retrospect. Cissy was on the road and their father wasn’t watching them. Michael chased her around house, she claims she had the hanger in her hand and somehow fell in way that caused it to go down her throat. She bleed profusely but it didn’t do any serious damage. Her dad tried to cover it up but got caught when Cissy insisted on talking to her over the phone. Cissy said it was the turning point that made her stop touring.

Why are black people more homophobic than white people?

[Quote] Shitty fucking reasoning.

[Quote] Datalounge hates bisexuals.

It's hard to take bisexual/heterosexual claims seriously when people like Eddie Murphy have openly said that he "helped" her out back in the 80s but that in reality, they weren't a couple. Ditto allegations of an affair with Jermaine Jackson. If Whitney were bisexual, she wouldn't need men to pose as paramours.

[Quote] Why are black people more homophobic than white people?

Why are gay people harder on other gay people?

r30 How are White gays males somehow more racist than their straight counterparts?

Why is straight me so stupid?

Being gay/lesbian is more taboo in the African American community. I'm sure a lot of it is tied up with Christianity. Not many black atheists, according to this Pew study.

r31 Eddie has never claimed that he “helped her out”, neither did Jermaine. Please stop spouting random nonsense and actually come up with a source to back your claim.

In fact, her relationship with Jermaine gives credence to her bisexuality. He was a married man with two children and she was not famous at the time. She had no reason to fake a pairing with him. There are multiple sources that more or less confirm they had an affair at the time.

Rosie O'Donnell (on Watch What Happens Live) said, in a matter-of-fact way, that Whitney was a lesbian. I think Rosie said she was in a social situation with Whitney and Robin and it was clear to Rosie that WH was a lesbian.

WH may have been bisexual, but on the spectrum, I think she was on the lesbian end. It is sad that she couldn't be herself, 100%. In the Oprah interview, it's clear that Cissy would not allow Whitney to be with a woman.

r25 listen again Oprah asks if the first time Whitney freebased, did cocaine, crack was he the one who introduced it to her. He admits that yes he introduced her to all that.

Go back to 1:22 in the video.

Another thing that makes me believe she was bisexual is that there are no other women but Robyn. Whitney was a very beautiful woman yet no other female partners have ever come out. Am I supposed to believe this is out of respect? Robyn was the only sexual partner Whitney(who experienced multiple miraculous conceptions) had in her entire life?

r37 Rosie is a troll that seems to really resent Whitney. She goes out of her way to remind everyone Whitney was an addict and missed her show every time her name is mentioned. She wasn’t a friend or a part of her inner circle even if she saw her at a gay club or two. A single social situation confirmed she was a lesbian instead of bisexual? Did she throw up at the sight of a penis? What fucking nonsense

Seriously, why are people on both sides so stubborn about accepting her as a bisexual.

[quote]Why are black people more homophobic than white people?

Religion, Mama is a Holy Roller.

Rosie & Whitney on SNL

Didn't Whitney shack up with Cherrelle?

Because she was a lesbian.

Besides if Whitney had been bisexual what difference would it make if the person she really loved and couldn't be with was another woman. I'm bisexual, I can fuck a woman, I have fucked women, quite a few, but what difference does it make if the people I'd rather fall in love with are men?

It's not about who you fuck, it's about who you love.

She wanted babies.

[Quote] Seriously, why are people on both sides so stubborn about accepting her as a bisexual.

Heterosexual dalliances would have kept the gay talk at bay... Yet Whitney was asked on TV in the 1980s if she was a lesbian. Would she be asked that if there were a string of boyfriends in her past?

r42 You have no idea if she was lesbian so say it like it’s fact is idiotic. There is sufficient evidence Once again, no one will acknowledge that she magically had multiple miscarriages and a child in her sexless, loveless marriage to a man that repeatedly beat and verbally abused her. She also decided to have fake affair with a married man years before her first album was even released. It’s illogical nonsense.

I can’t wait to see what Robyn says in her book.

I typed too fast. There is sufficient evidence that she was bisexual not a lesbian.

R44 on what show was she asked that?

r44 So you’re either a whore or a lesbian, sounds fair. She began an off and on relationship with Robyn in her late teens. Before that, she was a friendless loner by her own admission. Why would she have a string of male or female suitors?

[Quote] She also decided to have fake affair with a married man years before her first album was even released.

But when was the rumor first cited? If Whitney was having a gay old time around town, it would make sense to pivot the "hint of scandal" to another story/angle.

Whitney also got hot n' heavy with Nick Ashford.

Why is it her fans never like bringing up her lesbianism? It's like it didn't exist, her mom talks about it says she didn't accept it cause she is religious, surprise surprise.

r49 1985/1986, Another one of Jermaine’s mistresses or something was the first one to make the claim. No took her seriously at the time. Gay rumors didn’t start for Whitney until 1987. Other sources including Jermaine and Whitney have more or less confirmed it. Of all the men to lie about fucking, why would it be Jermaine Jackson.

Where is the proof of the miscarriages? Were they outside of her marriage to Bobby?

There was also no evidence of relationships with any males. There was a quarterback named Randall Cunningham that Whitney tried to say she had a relationship with but Randall denied that. There was the Eddie Murphy "relationship" but Murphy denied that. Through the 80's in New York as I said she was seen in lesbian clubs with Robyn, then once Robyn left it was all about Bobbi Brown.

There was never at any time any talk about Whitey and Jermaine Jackson. Jermaine was with Berry Gordy's daughter. Jermaine also lived in LA and Whitney was on the East Coast.

[Quote] Of all the men to lie about fucking, why would it be Jermaine Jackson.

Why would two pop stars lie or fail to refute romance rumors? I can't think of a reason.

Nick Ashford? You guys are reaching. You must not have been alive or conscious at the time Ashford and Simpson were popular.

Robyn's book is due next month, yes?

r50 is being a gross troll but it’s surprising that Ashford & Simpson never wrote a song for Whitney. They were two of the first people to “discover” her and seemed to really like her. There best days were already behind them I guess

"You ready for the strap, Eddie?"

Do we have to go through Whitney's screwed up life again?

r53 Are you freaking kidding? She had them throughout the 90s with confirmation from doctors and other sources. She had at least one on the set of The Bodyguard with witnesses. She another one during The Bodyguard tour. It was a major news story. She also said she was pregnant in multiple 1996 interviews but never reported a miscarriage. Her fertility was something she seriously struggled with and contributed to her addiction. Considering this is a site full of males, I’m not surprised you would make light of that or the affect it would have of a woman that already felt she was less of a woman.

r54 False equivalency

r59 Fuck off

I always thought Whitney was a lesbian and that her marriage to Bobby was a business arrangement until I watched Being Bobby Brown, and then I realized that their relationship, however nuts and dysfunctional it was, was genuine. The show didn't out Whitney as a lesbian, it outed her as a low class person. It completely shattered forever the myth that Clive Davis had worked so hard to cultivate 20 some years prior- to make Whitney a black woman who was "safe" for white audiences.

I think she was truly bisexual.

r60

How is it a false equivalency? Whitney and Jermaine dueted. Didn't he producer on her first album as well?

But if Whitney got pregnant multiple times, it wasn't a fertility issue. She had issues carrying to term. That's not surprising with substance issues. What was her relationship to food? She was a teen model, was she not?

Yes, her family was toxic, especially Cissy. But it was also the fucking religious angle too. And I have met more gay choir directors, and closeted preachers in Black churches that I ever imagined possible.And the homophobia was rampant. If it was kept on the downlow it was acceptable.

Like, I remember old Aunt Hattie's grandson was " funny", he was effeminate. He was bullied at school and by his cousins, and probably molested by his choir director at church. He'd come for Thanksgiving, and the family would pretend to ignore his flaming behavior, his voice, his mannerisms, but he always left early, and the old ladies would look at one another with sad eyes, while the men would just act disgusted.

All of them regular church goers, altar ladies and deacons. And the churches preached about the evils and the sins of sexual deviancy. Words from the mouth of the pastor who was busted at 2 AM parked in some stranger's driveway getting his dick sucked by a 13 yr old.

Agree, R61. That show (Being Bobby Brown) really shed some light on Whitney Houston & BB. It did look like a real, dysfunctional relationship. Bobby came off better than I thought he would. He was a stumbling alcoholic, though. Whitney came off like the breadwinner, weary of people asking her for money, etc. Whitney, in the show, was mostly dressed down, wearing bad wigs, etc.

[Quote] But it was also the fucking religious angle too.

I think the religious thing is overstated. Remember the Wendy interview? Whitney didn't even attend church. Religion was part of business (the Drinkard Singers etc.)

I know people that worked on the Bodyguard r60 I work in Hollywood. She was with Bobby at the time and Robyn was around for a bit during filming. If she was having miscarriages then they were Bobby's kids her body was expelling.

I think Whitney embraced the ratchet as an affectation. She was very hurt by the "Whiteney" comments.

You still need receipts r60.

If there are interviews, then where are the links?

r61 Anyone who judges Whitney character based on how she acted while high is a cunt. The idea that Clive shaped a poor Black child who never been around White people is a racist troop. In fact you sound like a racist cunt.

The people that knew her before fame very much describe her as the the shy, sweet girl she was in the 80s. Whitney was raised in a middle class neighborhood and went to an expensive private school. She picked up her mannerisms from her cousin. She was born very beautiful and with that voice. Clive capitalized a complete package. In fact, most of her career success is in spite of his advice not because of it. He was song choices were poor and he tried to talk her out doing The Bodyguard and switching to R&B in the 90s. If Clive had gotten his way, Whitney’s career wouldn’t have made it past 1987.

Yeah, this picture of her with her friends looks so low class. /sarcasm

When I was 19 (late 90s), I waited tables at a restaurant in a five star hotel in LA. Whitney and Bobby would stay there for weeks around the Grammys. They had separate rooms and were rarely seen together. In fact, Whitney hardly left her room. She'd order baking soda and spoons from room service (I've told this story many times on here). Bobby was an asshole as was his huge entourage.

At that time, they definitely seemed to be living separate lives.

Eh, Whitney did "switch" with her third album. People really overstate the Clive/Pop thing. Was it not decided that her debut single would be "You Give Good Love"?

[quote] [R61] Anyone who judges Whitney character based on how she acted while high is a cunt. The idea that Clive shaped a poor Black child who never been around White people is a racist troop. In fact you sound like a racist cunt.

And you sound like a shit stirring troll. I never said any such thing.

[Quote] he tried to talk her out doing The Bodyguard

I mean, the movie is a stinker. And the idea had been hanging around since the 1970s. There was a lot of precedent of "pop star fucks up by starring in movie."

r71 You’ve lied about it many times here. You can’t fucking cook crack in your hotel room without anyone noticing. It SMELLS! It also takes a lot more than baking Soda. Why would she buy cocaine from a dealer and make her own crack when she could just buy freebase or crack if that’s what she wanted??????

r71 You’ve lied about it many times here. You can’t fucking cook crack in your hotel room without anyone noticing. It SMELLS! It also takes a lot more than baking Soda. Why would she buy cocaine from a dealer and make her own crack when she could just buy freebase or crack if that’s what she wanted??????

It's interesting, middle class Black people loved Whitney's music, all of it.

It's weird, her aunt could make great classics with Burt Bacharach and no one called her white.

Then you have some trifling motherfuckers at the Soul Train awards and fucked up Black media calling her Whiteney. Just doesn't make sense.

r73 You implied that she was a low-class hood rat that Clive reformed and made accessible to White audiences. What we’re trying to say?

R75 et al. I have no idea why Whitney ordered that. I've never done crack or freebased or anything. I do know that's what she ordered, because, well, I took the order.

Why the hell would I waste my time by lying?

Linked report for Whitney’s 1996 miscarriage with mention of her 1994 miscarriage.

You can look up any Whitney interview during the promotion of TPW and she will make some mention of a pregnancy.

She talked about her miscarriage on the set of The Bodyguard with Barbara Walters in 1993. There were also many articles about it at the time.

I think it's partly to do with the time period. Singers like Dionne and Diana Ross were shining beacons of upward mobility. And they were among pre rock singers, where standards were the order of the day when compiling a tracklist for an album. Whitney came up in a time where supper clubs and Vegas were not what a young performer aspired to as destinations. She seemed uncool among the Janet Jackson types of the type. Of course, there's an irony when you see pics of the two together? Which of them is whitewashed, huh?

r79 You would waste your time lying because it amuses you. The entire floor would have smelled like chemicals and burning plastic. Did they have stoves and pots of boiling water in these hotel rooms?

1984 was before rap had really exploded and hip hop culture made sounding from the hood a marketing tool. Had Whitney come about 10 years later, I think Clive would have cultivated her image much differently. But in the early/mid-80s, everyone was looking to cross over. If you watch any episodes of TV One's Unsung, it's always interesting to see these bands or singers who had such success on the R&B charts but were virtually unknown on the pop charts. And I'm not saying it's because they were running around acting like a skit from the Dave Chapelle Show. For as much as the Grammy categories have multiplied to ridiculous sub-sub-sub genres and Billboard has a a different chart for artists who were born in odd months, back then an artist was seen as performing in a particular genre. And even if they had some crossover success, they were still pigeonholed. Clive didn't want Whitney to be an R&B artist who had some pop hits. He wanted her to be a pop artist, period. So Clive did everything to make Whitney appealing to a white audience first and foremost.

Ashford and Simpson were in a lavender marriage so that doesn't help your case.

There seems to be certain lesbians who want the kids and husband. Maybe due to societal constructs it is hard not to play along with hetero expectations. Like Alicia Keyes. Who took Queen Latifah and her girlfriend on the honeymoon with her. One thing Bobby said after she died was that she always needed women on the side for sex. Of course he has taken much of what he initially said about her back, but there was no reason to disbelieve him at the time because he was having to acknowledge he was not man enough for her.

But at the time Whitney came up, what would appealing to a black audience entail? Could she have been a young Anita Baker? She was never fully convincing in a dance/club mode because she couldn't even move well, let alone dance.

It would make me love Whitney more if she was really at 5 star hotels cooking her own crack. First of all, cooking crack is far from easy. It’s an art form. Attempting to do it in hotel room would be even more difficult. Imagine causing entire hotel floors to smell like chemicals while brazenly ordering ingredients and daring anyone to say a word. Wow

Well Black singers had already crossed over. Diana crossed over. Michael Jackson had crossed over by the 90's.

To those of us bougie Blacks Whitney's songs were like R&B lite. I mean come on, no white girl sounded like Whitney. She brought some soul into pop.

Some people swear by Teena Marie. I don't.

Wow 86 you painted such a picture I can smell the crack cookin!

r84 Bobby hated Whitney then and I think he still resents her now. He hit her were it would hurt. Was Robyn a thing, for sure. Other women, I’m not so sure.

He has claimed that he fucked a ghost, taught MJ how to moonwalk, never used drugs before Whitney(his best friends have confirmed this is a lie), made friend chicken with cocaine when he was 10 years old, and that Whitney fucked Tupac. He is a compulsive liar, not a reliable source.

I think Bobby also recently said that he's been clean for 15 years or thereabouts.

Ok, for example, a lot of times labels would service two different singles to radio, one for pop stations and one for R&B. With Whitney, I believe the label's first single was actually the duet with Jermaine Jackson, Thinking About You, which was serviced to R&B stations but didn't hit the pop chart because Arista had sent You Give Good Love to the pop chart. Now, of course, that song was a smash on BOTH charts.

I think Clive underestimated Whitney. I think his strategy would have been correct with someone with less talent, but a Whitney Houston does not come along very often. And Clive couldn't understand that she probably didn't need to be as cultivated as she was by him and she still would have been a huge success because we hadn't really heard a voice like that before. I get why he did what he did, but in hindsight, he clearly didn't need to.

Again, I'm not saying Clive's strategy was correct. I'm just laying out what he did, which he and others have spoken about at length several times. You seem to be wanting to shoot the messenger.

I didn't know of Whitney Houston lesbian rumors. I always look to Mother Nature and science, which tell us that bisexuality is common in animals and humans. On the other hand, the shocking revelation about Nell Carter could be used as an analogy. Even Whitney may not have known her sexual orientation because it can vary and she was a hardcore addict. Brain damage can prevent self-realization.

We now know that President Abraham Lincoln, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart were bisexual. I haven't seen or heard any evidence that Whitney was exclusively lesbian. IMHO, Robyn can't answer that question unless Whitney confided in her before major drug use, there was intentional & extensive deception and Whitney only involved herself with a man or men to conceive. Does it matter if Whitney was bisexual or lesbian? Obviously, she had a tragic life and vile relatives who didn't understand or care about unconditional love.

Why can’t people accept that Whitney was the kind of performer she wanted to be? Clive wasn’t the first White record exec that almost signed her. She sang songs like Tomorrow, Evergreen, Home, and The Greatest Love of All before Clive. She wasn’t gritty, she wasn’t a dancer. She knew what plans Clive had for her when she signed to Arista. The material could have been better at times but she was born to be Pop Diva Whitney Houston not Anita Baker, Janet Jackson, or Mary J. Blige.

He is a picture of her auditioning for Electra records singing Tommorow from Annie. Am I supposed to believe this was a girl that wanted to be a gritty R&B singer?

It matters to her place in history. If you think LGBT history doesn't matter, I guess it's a moot point to you.

That looks like one of Cissy's roomy dresses.

R94, if she's auditioning for Elektra there, why is Clive sitting in the room and the photo is captioned "during her first label photo?"

That man has too much hair to be Clive Davis.

r97 That isn’t Clive, not all Jews look the same. It’s for her first audition.

Another pic with the former president of Electra records.

Another audition for CBS records that was done before Clive.

Some of these "audtions" were showcases. They don't have a full band for an audition.

I got your number, cuzzy.

This isn't Davis either. Who is he?

r101 Tomato, tomato. She obviously wanted to make some Pop music with a Jew. The wool wasn’t pulled over her eyes.

One of her pre-Clive records. Pop/R&B with a voice that would not have suited pure R&B at the time.

I think the man mistaken for Clive is the one looking at the camera in the first shot at the link.

Bobby Brown said she was a lesbian. He said he thought the female thing was part time; when he married her is when he realized it was a full-time thing. He gave a whole interview to some newspapers a white back.

[Quote] a white back.

Interesting typo.

r106 We’ve been over this, I wouldn’t trust Bobby if he said the sky is blue. He also claimed she fucked Tupac and that Michael Jackson was trying to marry her too. He say whatever will get him attention.

R95, at minimum, Whitney Houston was bisexual, which assures her place in our history.

r106 I forgot to add that Bobby has also claimed she had countless affairs with male producers and execs that he opted not name out of “respect”. Bobby is a POS who can’t decide if she’s a lesbian or a maneater Whatever garners him the most sympathy.

I hope fucked she fucked Robyn, Denzel Washington, and whatever twat or dick that wanted. More power to her. Bobby surely never held back from fucking whoever he wanted to fuck.

[Quote] at minimum, Whitney Houston was bisexual, which assures her place in our history.

At minimum? Too vague.

R103, the man in the photo you posted resembles Australian Record Executive and Producer Robert Stigwood, affiliated with EMI.

Fertility issues because she probably still used drugs while pregnant and prior. That shit fucks up the operation of your body. Different for everyone. HORRIBLE music choices. Only a handful of truly smash records. Waste of a beautiful powerful voice. She had all the wrong people around her. Bad choices galore. That comes with drug use as well. Ricky Schroeder said she was smokin hot when she did the Season opener of SILVER SPOONS. They made out in the dressing room. That could have been a cute boyfriend for a minute and nice look. But nope. Kevin Costner was enamored with her and she could have broken that marriage up if she wasnt so clueless and on drugs. All bad choices in men. She was so pretty and elegant with the best voice. Smh. A teen girl I knew in the 90s, was friends with my brother. She asked Bobby Brown backstage if Whitney was a lesbian and he said, "No, she's bisexual as a mug though". Haha. That always stayed with me. I had a racist gay friend from Florida who LOVED Whitney Houston. She should have just ignored all those people. Stuck with white people. The ghetto black family and friends were no kind of a support system. Who were these "Friends"? Pat Garland runs the estate? WTF man. Bobbi Kristina? Nick Gordon? This tale is too twisted for color TV. R64 WOW. Thank you for sharing. People are a trip. R86 lmfao. Can you imagine?

R87, I thought Taylor Dane was blacks, back then. We also had Prince, and that bunch.

R111, my favorite high school teacher (for whom I was an aide in grade 12) had a rapid reply when a pesky student shouted, "That's a trick question!" She'd say, "You have a trick brain!"

Nippy (Whitney) was bisexual or lesbian, about which there's no doubt. That's not too vague. Please refer to the last sentence of paragraph one.

-109

Nah. Stigwood was silver by the 1980s.

Bisexual and lesbian are two distinct things. You may be happy with either/or. Others understandably are not.

R117, your original argument was that I didn't seem concerned about Whitney Houston's proper place in LGBT history.

In my humble opinion, Ms. Houston does not deserve a respectable place in history due to her unethical and illegal activities including domestic abuse and severe drug addiction and abuse. Drug abuse resulted in her death. She was a public figure who had a responsibility to youth, which she abrogated.

Obviously, Ms. Houston had tremendous talent and was admired by millions.

Of course, bisexuality and lesbianism are entirely different. Which Ms. Houston actually was is unknown.

You appear to be too dense to understand that since Whitney Houston was definitely either bisexual or lesbian, her place in LGB history is assured.

[Quote] Does it matter if Whitney was bisexual or lesbian?

[Quote] It matters to her place in history. If you think LGBT history doesn't matter, I guess it's a moot point to you.

[Quote] Bisexual and lesbian are two distinct things. You may be happy with either/or. Others understandably are not.

[Quote] your original argument was that I didn't seem concerned about Whitney Houston's proper place in LGBT history.

The original question was does it matter (lesbian or bisexual). I replied that it does matter. If you took "LGBT history" to mean the specifics of whether someone is lebian, gay, bisexual or trans is moot, then you're the dense one, dear.

[Quote] Which Ms. Houston actually was is unknown.

Undisclosed. Hardly unknown.

*lesbian

Never realized how 'bulldagger chic' that I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT video truly was.

r118 Lol, okay then. Add Robin Williams, Kurt Cobain, Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, and countless others to list. Most of the fans that grew up with her as their idol were already adults when her addiction was found out. I think any entertainer has any obligation to randos but I digress.

Are you also punishing her for being domestic abuse victim? WTF

Didn't she almost have it all?

Robyn went to a woman that hated her, thinking that she’s actually do something, anything.

Cissy always bragged about how she taught Whitney all about the pitfalls of fame. A conversation about drugs never came up? Not after working with known addicts like Elvis Presley? WTF

Didn't Cissy have a booze problem?

Cissy already had an addict son.

Cissy was toxic.

[quote]Ricky Schroeder said she was smokin hot when she did the Season opener of SILVER SPOONS. They made out in the dressing room. That could have been a cute boyfriend for a minute and nice look. But nope.

Being in a relationship with a white man would've alienated her black fans. She already had a lot of problems with the black community in the 80s with all the "Whiteney" shit.

[Quote] They made out in the dressing room.

I don't believe that for a second. Schroeder was 15 in 1985 and he looked it.

[quote] She should have just ignored all those people. Stuck with white people. The ghetto black family and friends were no kind of a support system.

Diana Ross and Donna Summer both figured that out early.

[Quote] Stuck with white people.

As if there weren't white people around to offer Whitney some nose candy and whatever else.

Despite the denials, Whitney and Mariah loathed each other, as Bebe Winans tells here. Mariah was so shady to her.

That story doesn't show that they loathed each other. It makes Mariah sound rude. It does nothing to make Whitney look negative.

Did y'all see that short video of Mariah lifting Diane Warren up and out of the way on the red carpet?

That story is beautiful. Whitney was our girl. What's not to love? She didn't hate people. She loved or let go. Mariah is a juvenile mean girl still, 25 years later.

Are there pictures of Whitney using the purple dildo? Asking... for a friend.

ABBA could have used some background dancers, terrible or otherwise, to distract...

Oops. Wrong thread.

Well in all honesty, does anyone actually like Mariah the person?

R129 What R131 said. R130 He said it himself on WATCH WHAT HAPPENS LIVE with Andy Cohen.

R30, THANK YOU. I wish more people were willing to openly ask this question. It's always bothered me

Also, I hope that old cunt Cissy is burning in hell. She ruined her daughter's life and her homophobia indirectly drove Whitney into Bobby Brown's arms.

Probably Church teachings

I cannot stand Pat Garland. She was recorded. It long ago saying unkind things about Whitney and Krissy.

Can you believe this woman runs the estate of the greatest female singer in the past t0 years? And look at how she talls about her!

While Pat's words may come back to haunt her (who knows how her life or that of her daughter may turn out), I doubt she's alone in saying that Whitney and Bobby "checked out" (i.e. gave their life and time to drugs while supposedly raising a daughter). If you were close to a drug addict who did the same thing, would your words always be kind? Especially with the peanut gallery's slings and arrows coming your way while the person you know fucked up their own life and played big part in doing so for their child, is deified by the same group of people?

How is Pat Garland connected to Whitney? Is she a relative?

She is married to Houston's brother Gary. I suspect her word are a little hollow as Gary is a drug addict.

*words

[quote] WH may have been bisexual, but on the spectrum, I think she was on the lesbian end. It is sad that she couldn't be herself, 100%. In the Oprah interview, it's clear that Cissy would not allow Whitney to be with a woman.

Aside from the Jodie Foster/Kelly McGillis foolishness, which is known to be false, Whitney has never even been rumored to have been with another woman. She is not on the lesbian end of the spectrum if her one lesbian affair ended almost 20 years before her death and she was otherwise only involved with men.

How many men have been linked with Richard Madden? Hmm?

There is a guy who appears in the video at r144.

His name is Raffles van Exel and he is a shady character.

Also was a short DL thread about him.

Nobody here has mentioned that Whitney told a few people that her aunt or cousin (Dionne Warwicks sister) molested both Whitney and her brother.

So, yeah. The family is fucking toxic. And, that molestation haunted her life, which would explain the drug use.

Well her older brothers introducing her to drugs so that they could then get drugs FROM her once SHE'S hooked is a good explanation as well.

Not like she went out into the streets looking for drugs.

[quote]Not like she went out into the streets looking for drugs.

Oh yes she did. When she was living in Atlanta in the early 2000s she visited crackhouses in the ghetto. It was in one of the two recent Whitney documentaries.

Also, it was mentioned in that doc that the sole reason she moved to Atlanta was so she could be far away from her family in NJ so she could get high all the time without them seeing it.

She was a trauma victim. EVERY action that led to her demise is a symptom of that. Her brother was molested by the same woman and will probably suffer the same fate.

[Quote] Nobody here has mentioned that Whitney told a few people that her aunt or cousin (Dionne Warwicks sister) molested both Whitney and her brother.

It's hard to even engage with those claims considering they came from a documentary in which the brother has a financial interest. (Pat Houston is listed as a producer.). I believer the other person who spoke on it, also in the doc, was a former assistant of Whitney's.

It may be true, it may be false. But revelations that involve financial gain muddy the waters.

From what I saw Whitney's family were trying to 'protect' her from Robyn when Robyn was probably the best thing in her life.

r155 are you simple minded?

I'm talking about the START of Whitney's addiction. Her addiction began with her brothers giving her drugs. She wasn't running out in the streets looking for them.

R158, that is the problem with this society, we find it so hard to believe ppl when they claim that they were molested. Meanwhile, they exhibit every psychological red flag in terms of being a victim of abuse. Dee Dee Warwick herself was probably abused as well..which explains HER drug problem. Molestation is FAR MORE common than most believe.

So true 159. The family dysfunction mandated that they keep control over her. Robin actually had Whitney's best interests at heart. Whitney's family only had their own interests at heart and main one being, to keep everybody in the money.

I wonder how different Whitney's story would've been if she had never hooked up with Bobby. Maybe she would still be alive.

R159 I know. It gets me so mad when her pos half brother Gary Garland says Robin was a user, an opportunist, and a hanger on. This piece of shit had the gall!!! Him, of all people! Disgusting. You have him, bobby brown, the other brother, pat, and all the other useless ratchet trash bags and Robin is the bad influence? Riiiiight. 👌They all make me sick. R144 I can't stand her either. It's absurd, isn't it?

If Whitney hadn't hooked up with Bobby, she would have found another drug buddy. Robyn partied but she wasn't devoted to drug use.

Her mother was a fucking evil twat. She KNEW Whitney was gay. But, she dared her to practice who she was with the threat of abandonment (wonder if SHE herself was gay). So, of course....Whitney was forced into a life that fit her mothers mold. When Oprah asked her if she would abandon Whitney if she were gay and chose that lifestyle, her mother said "yes".

Total lesbian in this pic.

And here.

Looks like she may have had a nose job.

[Quote] we find it so hard to believe ppl when they claim that they were molested.

I don't think that blanket statement applies here.

The Houston family put Bobbi Kristina to work in a reality TV show mere months after Whitney's death. I don't think it's unfair to say that they've been pretty devoted to filling their coffers from their association with Whitney (and her offspring). It's not unreasonable to be skeptical about what they say for profit. The same applies to Bobby Brown, who, as noted above, returns every few years with new things to sell/tell about Whitney.

Point is R169, why would he lie about it, and choose HER as the molester? Why lie, and even if he was going to lie, why her? No, he is not lying, and it explains so much.

Not a lot of drug addled people that DON"T have sexual trauma in their background.

It's not only sexual trauma: it's all kind of abuses, verbal, physical, emotional. There is also neglect and abandonment. All leads to PTSD, although different kinds of PTSD. BPD is now being slowly reclassified as complex trauma.

Also we never talk about the father, who, in the documentary they said wanted Robin killed or her legs broken. Then he sued Whitney years later for money! What the fuck! They were all lowlife scum.

Not only, R171, correct. But in a case where you have a person that lived and died as she did, and then you hear she was molested..it explains a lot.

Everything about who Cissy is inside is written all over that dumb, ugly, evil face. Tells you all you need to know. She was a shitty singer too. I hope she's ready to meet her demons when she crosses over. Cause best believe, the bitch got something coming for her. Fuckin Pat Garland releasing 30 year old music claiming to be unreleased and having the original track removed from youtube for that shitty remix. Ready to put a hologram on tour all for money in their lazy ass pockets. I hate them ALL.

Whitney was surrounded by leeches and users. Her own family, Bobby's family and his entourage. Sad, sad story. Robyn really was the only one who had Whitney's best interests in mind, and of course they all hated her for it because Whitney was their personal ATM. Lowlife trash.

Her brothers are interviewed in the documentary and they come off terribly.

Robyn's book comes out in a couple weeks.

[Quote] choose HER as the molester?

As an out lesbian, it wouldn't surprise me if Dee Dee's name was blackened in the Houston family. She wasn't out to the GP but She had a partner with whom she lived. Like Whitney, she even relocated to Atlanta.

R145, You're right. But Pat sounds really resentful and jealous of Whitney in that clip. She is not the right person to be in charge of enriching and growing Whitneys egacy.

All well and good, R177, but still..seems very odd that they would accuse her of this. Why? Why would they if she in fact did not do it? And, coincidentally, both Whitney and her brother exhibit sexual abuse red flag behaviors. The Dee Dee person was a drug addled mess too. She was probably a victim of abuse. It is generational.

I believe it.

[Quote] I believe it.

You're entitled to believe it.

[Quote] Why would they if she in fact did not do it? And, coincidentally, both Whitney and her brother exhibit sexual abuse red flag behaviors. The Dee Dee person was a drug addled mess too. She was probably a victim of abuse. It is generational.

Dee Dee is dead. The dead can't be slandered. No lawsuits to worry about. She had no children. There is little retribution to fear. She struggled with drugs throughout her life. "People do anything on drugs." The last assertion seems a strange sort of logic considering how many people under discussion in this thread are or were drug addicts. Are they all child molesters?

The Gary abuse claims centre around the years 1964 to 1966. Dee Dee was as busy as Cissy in those years. In fact, she was probably more busy as she launched a solo career and saw more success in the 1960s than Cissy did. She would have been on the road earlier in that decade than Cissy was. In the statement, Cissy states that Dee Dee never babysat during that period. The claim is believable. Why would you ask someone to look after your kids that keeps much the same hours as you do? John Houston was known to drive "the girls" (the proto Sweet Inspirations) into New York for their sessions.

R180, they could have named anybody. They could have said a stranger down the block. But, they named her. They were not looking for any financial gain. In fact, there is little gain to making that accusation. There is only more family pain.

And, no R180, not all drug users are child molesters. However, a GREAT DEAL of child molestation is opportunistic and DOES happen when a person is drunk or high. And, it can be a one or two time episodic event only.

[Quote] they could have named anybody. They could have said a stranger down the block. But, they named her. They were not looking for any financial gain. In fact, there is little gain to making that accusation. There is only more family pain.

You must be kidding. "Whitney abused by Grammy Award nominated cousin!" is a much better headline than "Whitney abused by man down the block." The revelation sold the movie, which, let's not forget, was the second documentary to come out in recent years.

For whom, R183? for the entire family?? It was the brother making the accusation. What does he gain?

And no, R183 that did NOT sell the movie.

[Quote] However, a GREAT DEAL of child molestation is opportunistic and DOES happen when a person is drunk or high.

Dee Dee worked alongside Cissy in the studio. When and where did the abuse happen? Did Dee Dee hang around John Houston's house when wasn't in the studio? Did Dee Dee live at home with her parents in this time period? It's not wrong to ask these questions. Anybody can be an abuser. But the implicit suggestion of "every abuse claim must not be questioned," is unfair.

[quote] [R158], that is the problem with this society, we find it so hard to believe ppl when they claim that they were molested. Meanwhile, they exhibit every psychological red flag in terms of being a victim of abuse. Dee Dee Warwick herself was probably abused as well..which explains HER drug problem. Molestation is FAR MORE common than most believe.

If Whitney had said she was molested she would be believed. She did not. Her coke fiend brother and an "assistant" (i.e. paid consultant) were the ones who made the claim. The narrative presented in the documentary was that molestation made her "confused" about her heterosexuality and led her to be involved with Robyn. In the same documentary, the same coke fiend brother said Robyn was a "nobody" and a "user." We all know that Robyn's relationship with Whitney preceded her fame so there is no way she could have been a "user." They were roommates when Whitney graduated high school.

Dee Dee Warwick had her own problems. Principally, she insisted on being in same-sex relationships as far back as the 60s even though her family strongly disapproved and rejected her because of it. Her drug problems could have resulted from that trauma. Typical of the black church -- this same family wants to hang the shame and albatross of Whitney's sexuality on her alleged molestation. Dee Dee is long gone and an easy target, since she was known to be a "pervert" (i.e. lesbian)

If Robyn says that Whitney was molested then it is true. Don't believe anyone else.

[Quote] And no, [R183] that did NOT sell the movie.

What, in your opinion, sold the movie?

R186, those questions you ask are ridiculous. How would I ever have answers to them. The better question would be why would they lie about being molested? We shall see if Robyn mentions in her book.

R188, any documentary on Whitney will sell a movie. What sold the movie? WHITNEY.

r189

How are they ridiculous? They were in response to a post mentioning opportunistic abuse... It ain't wrong to look at the circumtances of someone's life to gauge likelihood... Some here seem to be taking "she was a drug addict" as carte blanche for "she did that shit. Guilty as fuck."

They are riidic, R191 because I would not be privy to that persons whereabouts a million years ago.

I really couldn't care less about this ancient lez drama.

[Quote] any documentary on Whitney will sell a movie. What sold the movie? WHITNEY.

Nonsense. It was the second documentary on Whitney in about as many years. You may not read the news but the abuse claims are what shot the profile of the movie through the roof. And it was not a coincidence that those claims were only made known via the premiere. If they didn't factor into the selling of the movie, why weren't they mentioned before the premiere? Cissy and Dionne only heard of the claim days before Cannes.

[Quote] They are riidic, [R191] because I would not be privy to that persons whereabouts a million years ago.

I don't know you. You could be Whitney's childhood crossing guard for all I know. And the questions weren't directed at one person as if one person had the answers. This is an open forum.

And R191, here are the facts:

Accusation was made that Dee Dee molested Whitney and the brother while she babysat them.

Whitney was said to NEVER leave her daughter alone with anybody due to her own abuse from a babysitter.

Babysitter is a drug addled mess. People that are high DO engage in opportunistic behaviors, and when with children, some do abuse children. Studies have shown this to be true.

Both Whitney and brother are symptomatic (or where in W case) of a sexual abuse victim.

So, yes. I believe it. It is not out of the realm of possible and it all makes sense.

Sense neither you nor I know for sure, we cannot prove the other to be wrong. I am simply telling you that it makes sense to me.

were..not where.

[Quote] Whitney was said to NEVER leave her daughter alone with anybody due to her own abuse from a babysitter.

And yet Whitney was known to not leave her bedroom for days.

[Quote] Babysitter is a drug addled mess.

Who has affirmed that Dee Dee was a babysitter?

R195, nobody would know the answer to those questions, and you asked them as if they are with great merit. You do not know that DeeDee did not have time to babysit, as she was in the studio. Yet, you asked that question as if it made sense. How did she have time when she was in the studio......ridic, really.

Um, R199? Her accuser.

In the past a mistress stayed in the background and did not whine about it. The rich woman could take care of her lover. I do not feel sorry for Robyn at all.

And Cissy Houston has said that she never asked Dee Dee to babysit. Cissy knew Dee Dee was a lesbian. Just like Cissy knew her bandmate in the Sweet Inspirations was a lesbian. You think Cissy Houston, with her God-fearing avowed lack of support of those "in the life," would allow her children to be babysat by an invert? Would John Houston?

Cissy was never home, and of course she says that now. Cissy is twat and an evil bitch. The problem is, you have Whitneys assistant saying that Whitney told her about the abuse, and you have Whitneys brother saying the same.

[Quote] Yet, you asked that question as if it made sense.

How doesn't it make sense? Session singers were in the studio virtually around the clock. Cissy and Dee Dee followed much the same work schedule. They were on thousands of sessions together. Dee Dee was known as the leader of "the group."

[Quote] you have Whitneys assistant saying that Whitney told her about the abuse, and you have Whitneys brother saying the same.

Both in the same documentary of which one of the claimants is a producer.

If you were to drop a bombshell revlation of childhood sexual abuse, a bombshell of which your own mother was ignorant, would you do it in a movie and tell your mother two days before the premiere?

R205, it makes no sense because being a singer and in "sessions" would not preclude a person from having time to babysit a family member.

R206, I would bet money that Cissy already knew of the accusation, and so did other family members well before the doc. They were forced to deny it because it was made public for all the world to see.

[Quote] it makes no sense because being a singer and in "sessions" would not preclude a person from having time to babysit a family member.

And yet, you lean on "Cissy was never home"...

Do you think session singers worked an afternoon? Or even 9-5? They didn't. They could be in the studio until the wee small hours.

No one has presented a reasonable explanation for why homophobic Cissy would let her out lesbian cousin babysit her kids.

R206, the entire family is a dysfunctional mess. That shit (abuse, sexual and otherwise) is common for this type of family. VERY COMMON. Drugs, lies, judgements, alcoholism, fights,...this is what the family did. Sexual abuse is one of many dysfunctions, I am sure. That is why I believe it. Cissy would NEVER admit to having known of it (I would NOT be shocked if Whitney told Cissy when younger and cissy threatened harm to her if she ever spoke of it again) because she wanted the world to see everything as perfect in that fucked up family dynamic. Hell, even the father tried to rip Whitney off later in life. The whole family is toxic. Dionne is a narcissistic twat too.

R210, why dont you present a fact that would support that Cissy did NOT let her babysit? All Cissy said was that neither were alive to refute it, and all Dionne said was that her sister would not have done that.

No denials that she ever babysat.

[Quote] In all the years I traveled Dee Dee, who was 21 years older than Whitney, NEVER BABYSAT for them.

- Cissy Houston

Ok, R213. However, her own son denies that claim. I believe him over that evil twat anyday.

I would bet that Whitney DID tell her and that she slapped her in the face and told her never to say that again. Because, she is eviil.

Ok. But this evil homophobe was cool with her homo cousin babysitting her babies?

Michael, the other brother, is cited in the same statement as being ignorant of any abuse claims.

R215, she was never home. She probably had no idea who was babysitting her kids. and, lets be honest..you think she really cared? She has no real love for her kids, that is clear. She disowned her son for saying it, and I am sure she threatened the same when Whitney told her OR Whitney knew she would which is why she never did. Cissy is an evil cunt who cared more about $$$$ than her own kids. That is clear. And, did she say she did not speak to Dee Dee? Did she have hatred for her?

Yes, R216, that is very normal. That happens in dysfunctional families. Many sibs dont speak about it, any many sibs STOP speaking to their own when another makes an accusation. So, yeah..he probably had no idea.

Just as Cissy told Oprah she would disown Whitney if she were gay. That is no real love.

[Quote] She has no real love for her kids, that is clear.

Why did she stage an intervention?

R220 because Whitney was a cash cow.

[Quote] because Whitney was a cash cow.

That probably answers why Gary and Pat did the documentary as well...

lets not forget, R220, Robyn told that twat Cissy that Whitney had a drug problem when Whitney was in the beginning of her fame, and rather than appreciate and intervene then, she got rid of Robyn by threatening Whitney. Its all about the $$$ with Cissy.

[Quote] she got rid of Robyn by threatening Whitney.

Robyn didn't leave until the end of the 90s / turn of the millennium. Robyn told Cissy about Whitney's drug use in the late 1980s...

Yes, R224, and Cissy hated her after that (and before) and did NOTHING about Whitneys drug problem, and launched a campaign to get rid of Robyn. Finally, succeeded.

[Quote] launched a campaign to get rid of Robyn. Finally, succeeded.

Cissy needed to work on her time management.

R226, I am sure she managed it quite well. It didnt take too long for her to extricate her daughter from who she really was into a life that Cissy molded for her. Rome was not built in a day, after all.

[Quote] It didnt take too long for her to extricate her daughter from who she really was

Did Whitney ever know who she was? At the lesbian clubs maybe.

R228. No, she sure didn't Thanks to Cissy.

[Quote] No, she sure didn't Thanks to Cissy.

And does Whitney play a role in that or are we supposed to see her as incapable of any action to better herself? Whitney said that she was her own worst enemy.

I will let you answer your own questions, Cissy.

R231 I'm 💀💀💀😂

[Quote] I will let you answer your own questions, Cissy.

We've all seen the Aretha "Rolling In the Deep" Letterman performance...

Bump

Surprised their physical relationship ended in 1982.

Sad. She could have been happy.

[quote]After things ended romantically, Crawford and Houston stayed close, even becoming roommates. Houston went on to date Jermaine Jackson, Eddie Murphy, Richard Simmons, John Travolta, Liberace and eventually marry Bobby "definitely not a 'mo" Brown in 1992.

Eddie Murphy has explicitly said that they were not a thing.

[Quote] Houston allegedly told her that it would make their “journey more difficult” and told Crawford “living that life meant we would go to hell.”

Sounds like the hell of her life was a foregone conclusion with that attitude. Religion kills.

[Quote] Crawford was a confidante of Houston’s for more than two decades, and her instincts are not to sensationalize. “She was a loyal friend, and she knew I was never going to be disloyal to her. I was never going to betray her,” she wrote in a 2012 obituary for Houston in Esquire.

[Quote] Those instincts end up rendering Houston slightly flat in this memoir, which portrays the singer as blindingly talented and incapacitatingly troubled, but not terribly complex.

Oh well...

[Quote] Many of the most pointed moments in the audiobook tell of things that are done to Houston, not things that Houston does herself. The stories about Houston’s mother, Cissy, are far more vivid and telling. Cissy “never helped Whitney get ready for school”; she was informed of her teenage daughter’s drug use but turned a blind eye; and, in one confrontation while Crawford was in Houston’s employ, she slapped Crawford for leaving Houston alone.

[Quote] That same day, Crawford says, Houston also slapped Crawford for spending the day with another woman, a rare indication of Houston’s possessiveness (and perhaps of things left prudently undisclosed).

Robyn seems like such a nice woman. It's awful how Whitney's family and Bobby treated her. It's a shame that Whitney allowed it. They treated her like garbage and were abusive to her.

Are there any links to the Dateline interview (bar the NBC site)? I can only find clips.

Robyn speaks on the Dee Dee Warwick allegations.

Full TODAY interview.

[quote] Bobby "definitely not a 'mo" Brown

My....my...my.

So the men Whitney was so attracted to could all potentially do things for her career.

R247 yes! YES. My Lord. I never attended an event without an old rich white man on my arm. Just good business, darling.