Boris with a win on Brexit?

It's a win because there's a deal.

But this deal is worse than May's deal for the UK and no one will say it because everybody want to be over with it.

It's a obviously a political win-win for him because:

1) If the deal goes through, he goes down in history as the PM who delivered Brexit.

2) If the deal doesn't go through, there's a general election where he's currently leading in the polls.

Jesus Christ those TEETH!!!

Not so much R2. The deal has not gone through and BoJo now has to write a letter to the President of the European Council by midnight tonight requesting an article 50 extension to next year. The letter is required by law. There is a claim pending in the Scots court which is ready to come back to life on Monday morning if BoJo fails to observe the law.

r4 I know, I watched the entire House session today. There will be another vote on a deal on Monday or Tuesday, so my point stands.

The question of extension is a separate one and doesn't alter the fact that the deal WILL be voted on next week.

*And by "another" vote, I mean the first actual vote on the deal. It's been tabled today thanks to the vote on Letwin's amendment.

Told you there'll be another extension. That's how things unfold. There'll be another extension after that also.

This one might be only technical that'll last a week or two, but we'll see on Monday or Tuesday how the vote goes.

The Speaker may not allow another vote next week. After all, the government's motion (as amended) passed on Saturday. What are they going to try to bring to another vote next week? The same motion seems unlikely. Even if they vote on a motion next week, failure will not lead to a general election: a general election can only occur in terms of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011: you can imagine that BoJo, who has lost all but one of the votes in the House of Commons since becoming PM, would have called a general election at the first opportunity if he had been able to. BoJo is a loser, very far removed from the win-win situation discussed above.

If an extension is agreed and lasts until the end of January, there will be a general election, as Corbyn himself has promised.

No fookin' Brexit!!

"Boris Johnson confirms he will seek Brexit delay, says Brussels" Win-win BoJo's finest hour. His humiliation is complete, I say complete. Tory scum look away, the reality is too bleak for you to contemplate.

The UK is such a burden on the EU.

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R8 There will be no vote. The government can't ask for a second vote on a motion it won, even though the motion it won was amended by Letwin thus turning the win into a Pyrrhic victory. What R11 said!

He will put forth legislation next week.

[quote]The prime minister said he was not “daunted or dismayed” by the defeat, and would press ahead with tabling Brexit legislation next week. MPs are likely to take the opportunity to table a string of amendments, including on trying to force a second referendum.

By the way, he has exactly half an hour left to send that damn letter to the EU.

BoJo's humiliation appears to be complete: after pride comes the fall; in some other countries, he would probably be assassinated by his own people. R16, he can't bring the bill before parliament next week because he hasn't had it drafted yet: a bill of that complexity will require months of work by the parliamentary draftsmen; then it has to be debated in both Houses; the deal itself was 500 pages long - this will not be a one-day event like the so-called Benn Act.

R16 He has 20 minutes left! Ha! What a maroon!

"Boris Johnson sends request to Brussels for Brexit delay. Donald Tusk confirms letter has arrived – though reports suggest it was unsigned photocopy with a conflicting view in a second letter."

On Monday the Scots court will either rule that (1) the first letter was valid and the second letter null and void or (2) require a letter to be send in due form (without a second letter) pursuant to statute on BoJo's behalf, perhaps to be signed by Speaker Bercow. BoJo's a poor loser: now it must be clear for all to see, even those deluded Tories who voted for him in the recent party poll.

I would say that direct rule of the UK from Brussels is overdue. (As a fig leaf the UK government might be allowed to continue its own direct rule of Northern Ireland.)

[quote]"Boris Johnson sends request to Brussels for Brexit delay. Donald Tusk confirms letter has arrived – though reports suggest it was unsigned photocopy with a conflicting view in a second letter."

Shocking absolutely no one. The court in Edinburgh will be furious that he tried exploiting a loophole; the courts fucking hate that.

Do you guys think Brexit will actually go through?

Boris has the moral obligation to make sure that the result of the referendum is honored. The people didn't vote to leave the EU only if there was a deal, it was just leave.

[quote]The people didn't vote to leave the EU only if there was a deal, it was just leave.

You just came up with this bullshit on the spot. No, people were assured by Boris et al. that this would be the easiest deal in history. That's why they voted Leave. Even the fringe group of extreme nationalists probably didn't have a No Deal scenario in mind at the time.

Perhaps the court in Edinburgh will order him gaoled for contempt. It all depends on what the second letter says: "We sent you the first letter as required by law. The law is not in accordance with the government's policy, and this will come as no surpise to anyone who has followed the debate. The government would repeal the law if it could, but it can't. The policy of the government is that no extension should be requested; but requested it has been, in accordance with the law. The government ask that you reject the statutory request for an extension; the government makes this requst in accordance with its stated policy." Perhaps the court will take the view that such a second letter would be an appropriate expression, in action, of the separation of powers. Perhaps the E-U will simply say that we have received the statutory letter with a second letter; we have considered the second letter and have nevertheless decided to grant the extension as requrested in the first letter (which was unsigned but which we are satisfed came from the PM).

There's a deal. In fact, two deals, if you county May's. No more excuses.

It makes him look cheap and petulant. That's no way for a PM of a country to behave on the international stage. Can't believe how far they've fallen...

R22 - every delay / extension makes Brexit more unlikely.

R23 - BoJo feels no moral obligation except unto himself. He used to be a remainer, after all, until it dawned on him that he could become PM if he adopted a diffrent view. He is a liar, like Tony Blair and others who have held that office.

[quote] easiest deal in history

Yessiree!

I keep thinking to myself that if BoJo had a majority (until he destroyed it), he would have succeeded. But he has split his own party and alienated the DUP. May had a majority, but that was months ago; if she was still here with her backstop-deal, she would have probably have been able to get it through today.

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I don’t understand.

Will there be a new referendum vote by the public? How would the vote go?

Or is this all playing-out in Parliament?

Ty.

All in Parliament, for now. Things should get clearer this week on how this will continue to unfold.

Those backing a second referendum don't want to blow their wad too soon and so are strategically waiting for the best possible opportunity to suggest that motion.

Any idea how the vote would go now, if it were held again?

In my case, I think Trump would lose to Hillary if their rematch were held today.

[quote] Or is this all playing-out in Parliament?

No, in the UK constitution Parliament is supreme but with no overall majority there, the courts are involved; the UK executive is now a mere instrument with BoJo a prisoner in No. 10; the EU is deeply involved and the EU is not subject to the UK Parliament (that might come as news to some MPs).

My first instinct is that if there was a second referendum, Remain would win this time. That being said, I'm going by anecdotes (I've heard quite a few Leave voters admit that they didn't really understand what they were voting for and have now changed their minds), so take what I say with a pinch of salt! I also wonder if there are politically disengaged people who didn't bother to vote last time but, after watching all the chaos of the past three years unfold, would think "this really isn't worth the hassle, let's just stay in the EU" this time around.

[quote] The UK is such a burden on the EU.

R13, I like your sense of humour :). This graph from the European Commission reveals who is the real "burden" on the EU.

R36 it all depends on the question(s) put in the referendum.

1 Do you wish to remain as we are 2 Do you wish to leave on Teresa's terms (Brexit in name only)? 3 Do you wish to leave on BoJo's terms (Brexit in name only, mark II)? 4 Do you wish to leave with no-deal (hard Brexit)? 5 Whichever is more likely to pay me a larger dole check on time 6 VIVIAN VANCE!

r37 You should see where you were when you applied for the membership. You're welcome.

R37 Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary are frantic to stop the Brexit, cos their benefits would be reduced and they (and the EU) can't afford that, what with resurgent Commies trying to stir up social unrest. Putin is a-purrin' away over there in the Kremlin.

R39, oh my goodness gracious, were we tailing behind Romania and Hungary? Were we trying to catch up with the economic powerhouse that is Bulgaria? My oh my!

"Thank you" for all the homophobia coming from those countries. They've been slurping up billions in funds from the Union for over a decade and yet still refuse to allow basic human rights (gay marriage). They sure are acting very 'grateful' for all that money (not).

Didn't Rogosh Hardy go over to Bulgaria? I get confused from here (Texas) but I think it was he.

"Brexit: UK will leave EU this month, ministers insist"

Fat chance of that unless their plan all along was to leave with no deal, which is not going to happen either. It is about time the House of Commons ended all this uncertainty by revoking the article 50 notice. Then we could roast the greased piglet for our celebratory dinner.

The EU now says it will wait until MPs debate Brexit deal on Tuesday before any extension decision. So there will be in fact a vote on the deal this week, just like I said.

r42 Omg, what a small world! I was jerking off to videos (yes, there are several) of Bulgarian Gencho and Rogan just last night. 😊

So much b/s: all they can do next week is to introduce the bill to implement the deal; there can't be any more meaningful votes of the type which took place yesterday. They could have a first reading in the HoC then its off to the committee stage for the bill. But this bill has not even been drafted, so what are they going to try to do next week: they are being vague because they don't know.

A win?? Lolol. Um, no.

No, R46, with typical hype not merely a win is claimed but a "win-win". The gullible will always be with us, alas.

"Mr Raab told the BBC's Andrew Marr show that "notwithstanding the parliamentary shenanigans, we appear to have now the numbers to get this through."

What planet does Raabid live on? Denial is flowing through Clarissa's drawing room again: "we appear to have now the numbers to get this through." That means that Raabid thinks he has the numbers now, Sunday, after the so-called victory yesterday while meanwhile the DUP are defecting to Labour.

No doubt in the bunker, such Raabid logic passes as reality. Delusional.

I am attaching the link, but that BBC posting (suffix 5151) keeps changing, getting worse and worse actually.

The bill, if any, they present next week is going to be amended out of recognition. For instance a second EU referendum will be attached to it. The old Etonians in charge of this mess, Piglet and Mogg, have done us proud. Floreat Etona!

I am slightly surprised and a tad disappointed that DLers have not taken Boris to task for the typo in his long letter to President Tusk (last para but one)! At this rate, any bill (typos and all) presented next week is going to be a mess.

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R48, I don't think even Raab is delusional enough to believe what he's saying.

The UK just needs the EU to refuse any extension and then Parliament will have to accept the deal before the 31st. The EU and the UK will finally be free of each other. The voters will hold the rogue MPs accountable who refused to honor the result of the 2016 referendum.

Could one of you kindly Brits please give this chav American the Reader's Digest version of what is currently going on with Brexit? Much obliged, dolls.

Vote on the deal scheduled for tomorrow. Deal still on knife-edge despite Boris claiming he has the numbers. The EU will wait to see the result of that vote before they grant extension and send the deal to be ratified in the European Parliament on Thursday.

Also, the deal can be amended, which means -- if there are enough votes -- a second, confirmatory referendum could be tacked onto it.

Except R55, there likely won't be any vote on anything except a new bill unless, that is, the Speaker allows a replay of Saturday (which he probably won't). Unfortunately for BoJo, the parliamentary draftsman can't work that fast so the bill won't be ready. The EU will grant an extension to allow time for the bill to reach parliament.

Yeah, it's all very fluid right now, but we should know more by the end of the week.

Do that have to have an illustrated manuscript created? It shouldn't take too long to create a bill digitally.

Speaking of manuscripts, the Speaker of the House has signalled he will allow the so-called manuscript amendments to be put forward tomorrow.

[quote]Manuscript amendments are amendments of which no notice has been given until the day itself. For this reason they do not appear on the day's business papers and are rarely selected for debate. If a manuscript amendment is selected for debate by the chair its text is made generally available.

Part 2.5 in the attached: Office of Parliamentary Counsel is usually willing to give Agencies preliminary advice on legislative proposals, including estimates of drafting time. However, such estimates cannot generally be regarded as binding because it is hard to say in advance precisely how long a drafting task will take [...].

The deal itself was 500 pages long. What kind of bill is the government going to introduce? If it is going to be 500 pages long then it will be a big job for the Office of Parliamentary Counsel, assuming the deal iteslf is not adequately drafted for parliamentary purposes.

Is Britain becoming the bossy verbal bottom to EU’s alpha top?

Bercow has ruled out a vote on the deal today. Now what?

EU withdrawal agreement bill has just been published - all 110 pages of it - and MPs will vote on it on Thursday.

Comparing Brexit to Amexit, the American Revolution, it seems like there are many more loyalists in power wanting to remain with the EU than there were in the Continental Congress wanting to stay with Britain. It's funny to think of how different the history of North America and the world have been if those loyal to Great Britain had been able to strangle and thwart American independence in the way that the EU loyalists are sabotaging Brexit.

"Boris publishes huge 110 page Brexit bill ahead of historic Commons clash today."

BoJo's WAB deal received its second reading but has been suspended by BoJo cos he lost the programme motion.

Boris is going to need an election to gain a majority and get Brexit across the finish line.

BoJo can't call an election, poor greased piglet; not so greased now are you?

Boris now wants to try for an election on 12 December (which, incidentally, will be the anniversary of the day Theresa May survived the no-confidence vote).

I remember wrapping Christmas presents last year while watching MPs debating May's withdrawal agreement. We're still no further forward. Just fucking cancel Brexit, it's been a disaster from day one. I can't sit through another decade of this.

[quote] Just fucking cancel Brexit, it's been a disaster from day one. I can't sit through another decade of this.

Yes, revoke the article 50 notice because it has been a disaster from day one. Yes, it will be another decade while the EU and the UK negotiate a trade deal.

Reminder: the Leave campaign sent out leaflets back in 2016 explicitly stating "we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave". Obviously they were in no position to make that promise, given that the Leave campaign is not a political party, but it does show that "the people voted for a no-deal Brexit!" is nothing but revisionism.

The lies, the lies, there is no end to the lies. Top cunt BoJo told a lie to the Commons yesterday as his NI secretary shook his head, as much as to say, "Well that's Boris, innit?"

I’ve lost my ability to understand this.

I thought when Boris Johnson was made PM, that this meant that his interest in leaving the EU had popular support? That it was even more popular than when Brexit voted upon? Am I wrong about that?

How would the Brexit vote go today, if it was held now?

Jeesh, imagine the complexity if the UK had adopted the Euro!

R73 Fret not, it's 3-dimensional chess. But really, BoJo should say that there is no adequate answer to the Brexit question at present: it will have to be stayed until we have an answer, which may not be until we are able to beam live cattle across the Irish Sea, begorra.

I actually read your link, R74. Interesting.

It does seem like the UK can’t leave the EU after all. Did they ever consider staying and trying to negotiate for more control over their borders?

They already have more exemptions than any other member state. And no, you can't negotiate over internal borders because the free movement of EU citizens is one of the four pillars of the Single Market. It would be a bit like a US state wanting to limit who is allowed to enter from other states and who isn't.

Boris was appointed to his position by Tory MPs; the public had no vote on the matter. He has less legitimacy than Theresa May who led the party into the most recent election.

R75 The UK can check out anytime it likes but it can never leave. It's called BINO (or brino): Brexit in Name Only: that's what they're getting, they will become a client state. Along with the dissolution of the UK (Scotland and NI will leave) and the reallocation of their permanent UN security council seat to Brussels.

[quote] It would be a bit like a US state wanting to limit who is allowed to enter from other states and who isn't.

California did that in the 1930s

I'm sure it did, but that was a different time.

Do or die shelved. That cunt did not do, so he has to die (by his own admission). Cunt. "Boris Johnson has abandoned his “do or die” pledge to leave the EU by 31 October and will plead with MPs next week to give him a pre-Christmas general election."

"Brexit: EU agrees to Brexit delay, but no date yet." By rights, BoJo should suffer for this but it seems that the public still prefer him over Corbyn ... If only Labour would replace Corbyn, BoJo would be out there in the ditch where he should be.

It looks like France may come to the UK's aid and limit the extension to a short duration in order to force Parliament to do its duty and ratify the agreement.

Taxpayer money still being spent on advertising October 31st as the leave date. Shit like this makes me so mad.

When is the EU likely to announce how long the extension is for? What if it's two months, and we're due to leave on New Year's Eve?

Early next week, with France pushing for a short extension.

Thank you, R85.

Brexit is never happening. But you tried it.

[bold]Brexit: EU prepares to grant UK three-month extension[/bold]

[quote]The EU is preparing to sign off on a Brexit extension to 31 January 2020 with an option for the UK to leave earlier if a deal is ratified, according to a leaked draft of the agreement seen by the Guardian. Despite objections raised by the French government, a paper to be agreed on Monday circulated among member states suggests the EU will accede to the UK’s request for a further delay.

[quote]The UK would be able to leave on the first day of the month after a deal is ratified, according to the paper. The draft paper suggests a no-deal Brexit on 31 October is off the table as demanded by opposition party leaders as a prerequisite for a general election.

[quote]Twice as many people now think it would have been better never to have held a referendum on Brexit than believe it was a good idea, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer. Asked to consider the difficulties the government has had in reaching an agreement, 57% of UK adults surveyed said that they believed it would have been better not to have had a public vote in June 2016.

But still a 16% Tory lead in a general election, so... a mixed bag, really.

EU has agreed Brexit 'flextension' until 31 January 2020

[quote]“Flextension” means flexible extension. If MPs approve the Brexit deal sooner, the UK could leave the EU before 31 January. Under the draft plan being considered by EU ambassadors this morning, 1 December or 1 January would also be possible dates for Brexit in the event of the deal passing.

Seriously, can you imagine if "normal" people (i.e. not politicians) behaved this way at work, university, school? Constantly asking for extensions on work they've been given plenty of time to do?

BoJo loses yet again. His premiership is going swimmingly so far.

The Brits are really showing their knickers here. If they can't be the teacher running the show, they'll settle for playground bully.