The dark side of ‘socialism’

Trump is going straight down the shitter and there’s nothing you can do about it.

What is really so bad about socialism? Together we are much stronger than divided.

OP's picture shows lunatic Corbyn who vetoed the Brexit deal without actually reading it.

A spectre is haunting Europe...

So, let's recap: DL hates women; is racist; transphobic; vicious towards the suffering; and now anti-socialist. Why, this site could be founded and written by Donald Trump himself! Don't delude yourself, guys - you're part of his tribe.

R5 You need to learn an appreciation of Nuance.

R6, you need to take a long, hard look at the mirror and consider: "Am I hot enough to be such a condescending douche?"

Also, no. There are no nuances here on the DL.

Corbyn represents the bigoted, ugly reality of "social liberalism". R5 R7 represents its blinkered, hypocritical aspect.

Really, R8? How, exactly, am I hypocritical? Do explain, please. I'm curious.

R9 Start with selective outrage. I'm sure you can find more when you look hard at that mirror of yours.

What is selective about it, R10? The sentiments I pointed out are all over this site, in almost every single thread. Shall i invite you to the neighboring thread about child pornography which turned into a surprise misogyny thread?

[R5] Reply 5× So, let's recap: DL hates women; is racist; transphobic; vicious towards the suffering; and now anti-socialist. Why, this site could be founded and written by Donald Trump himself! Don't delude yourself, guys - you're part of his tribe.

—Anonymous

reply 539 minutes ago

And who said that everyone who is anti-socialist "hates women; is racist; transphobic; vicious towards the suffering"?

And who said that everyone who is anti-socialist "hates women; is racist; transphobic; vicious towards the suffering"?

R11 And now you've demonstrated the blinkered aspect, seeing only what fuels your selective outrage.

Now those who are responsible for mass poverty, the biggest culprits of climate change, this capitalism invented by America, the second biggest polluter on the planet, wants to explain to us that it is socialism that destroys the world then that they imposed their inhuman doctrine on the whole planet !!! All this propaganda carried out obviously by the Russian agent Trump, that the British with Bojo will follow like poodles

This article was written by a moderator. Why do you think everyone who criticizes socialism is conservative right-wing extremists? Stalin chased and arrested gay men. Only in liberal countries do they respect gay rights.

I wonder what makes Americans think they still have any credibility. A country run by the head of ethnic cleansing, whose orange clown has gone bankrupt several times, would like to give lessons on what is or is not a good model of society? This America with a healthcare worthy of the Middle Ages, this America and its unequal educational system, which, as we can see on social medias manufactures millions of ignorant and whose God is called dollars $, This America so racist that it is building a wall on its border, Is THIS America seriously wants to give the world any lesson??? HAHAHAHAHA!

R16 " We are going to defeat socialism and put a man on the face of the Moon", Trump, 6 days ago. You Trumpers still think you are fooling anyone?

F&F this thread.

Trump's propaganda

r16, in the West, "Socialism' is thought to be the same as 'Liberalism', even though Socialism is as anti-Liberal as Fascism.

And yes, bitches, Socialists have no time for us Gays.

That's exactly why my great-uncle was murdered by them before he could escape.

People forget history so easily: the former Soviet Union, Maoist China, Khmer Rouge, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

Ten of millions have died, and yet people still want to bring back Socialism/Marxism...?

R16 R20 R21 Still trying the "socialists hate gays", card?

to try to coax and recruit ignorant gays in your cult? You're so stupid that you don't even know that the majority of countries with socialist governments have adopted gay marriage years before the US. The majority of the socialist countries are at least twenty years ahead of America, poor caricature of the ignorant American, Soviet Union, Mao, North Korea etc were ALL COMMUNISTS, not Socialists! See, you are the perfect IGNORANT AMERICAN cliché, full of shit. Just shut the fuck up and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS GAY website Trumpist!!!

"People forget history so easily: the former Soviet Union, Maoist China, Khmer Rouge, Cuba, North Korea, etc."

LMAO ! Says the ignorant trumper !!! Soviets Maoists, Cuba, North Korea (your orange idol new ally), are Communist regimes.

Socialism was another party, idiot!

Communists regarded socialists then the way socialists regard liberals today. As compromising bourgeoisie sellouts.

"Ten of millions have died, and yet people still want to bring back Socialism/Marxism...?"

Jesus effing Xmas, these dimfuckwads and their false equivalencies.

For the record - the hysteria around this "socialism" is 100% fabricated by the right. What progressives - and quite frankly, more and more moderates - are advocating for is a stronger social safety net and measures that build out the middle class. Something akin to all the other 1st world nations.

Socialism is community ownership of the means of production and distribution. That is NOT what we are talking about here. The US *WAS* a capitalist country - now its a de facto oligarchy. But with the right regulations in place and a strong social safety net, it can be a proper capitalist country again. Only one that doesn't make basic existence a zero sum game.

This is the thing that is so idiotic about the right, and much of this fucking country in general. Our citizens are our greatest resource. Why wouldn't we want to make an investment in them with affordable education, access to healthcare, etc? In order to lead innovation in the world this is mandatory. So many of our great scientists, artists, business leaders started out middle class and many times were 1st or 2nd generation immigrants.

So let this be a warning: other countries who are making a greater investment in its citizens, including yes, communist China, are going to KICK OUR ASSES in almost every measurable category very soon if we don't rectify this.

The current state of the Republican Party is a cancer and it needs to be rooted out. Some of them seem to be waking up to this a little, but Trumps nihilistic base is going to fight tooth and nail to keep him in office. We can't let this happen.

See R18 for the dark side of socialism. It would be people like him and his "F&F this thread" in charge, telling everyone what to think and stomping out any dissent.

r26 went to a for profit college. In Arkansas.

How many people has Capitalism killed? Workers in unsafe conditions, people dying from lack of health care, addicts created by big pharma thugs, homeless dying in the streets, endless wars for oil and land.

All the scientists would tell you that the main reason for climate change = CAPITALISM! USA have destroyed the entire world but they still have the nerves to talk about socialism? Like are you for real??

[quote][R9] Start with selective outrage. I'm sure you can find more when you look hard at that mirror of yours.

[quote][R11] And now you've demonstrated the blinkered aspect, seeing only what fuels your selective outrage.

LOL. Serious question: What "outrage" ISN'T "selective"? Unless one is an exhausting, overly emotional hysteric, one cannot possibly BE anything other than selectively outraged.

I hope that all the people defending socialism in this thread are the ones they come for first.

Well, we're living through the dark side of capitalism---market drops and big recessions; health care costs making people bankrupt; huge tax breaks for the rich while the middle class juggles 2-3 jobs.

Let's try socialism.

After WWII, Europe went straight to socialism because they saw the societal dangers of class and extremes in wealth.

Socialism just means a strong safety net so everyone won't have to worry about health care and education. Why should your access to health and education be based on your income?

[QUOTE] People forget history so easily: the former Soviet Union, Maoist China, Khmer Rouge, Cuba, North Korea, etc. Ten of millions have died, and yet people still want to bring back Socialism/Marxism...?

Those were fascist states, dear

[quote] I hope that all the people defending socialism in this thread are the ones they come for first.

Socialists, take me away!

R33 You need to see what a dungheap Britain is

Interesting how American will defend their socialism to the end--Medicare, social security.

Try to change either and your political job is in jeopardy

[quote] You need to see what a dungheap Britain is

Take a look at Camden, NJ if you want to see a dungheap

[quote] the hysteria around this "socialism"

By using "around" when you mean "about," you endumben all of us.

OP is one of the shite disturbing trolls spreading disinformation and Republican narratives.

My point is to show that the far left can be as dangerous as the far right. Both are the same. We have to fight both.

R41 just stop.

dude im so over these fucking bullshit right-wing propagandists trying to present themselves as sensible moderates. not all ideologies are going to be perfect. socialism seems the most tenable at the moment. capitalism, in its current incarnation, is not tenable. healthcare costs are unbearable, the "gig economy" and non-stop production is normalized, the wealth distribution is fucked, the planet is dying.

Socialism as a term is frustratingly imprecise. Tony Blair and George Orwell have at one time or another defined themselves as socialists, as have Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot.

In fact, the socialist left - as opposed to the social democratic left - no longer has a credible economic program to turn to. The state's economic planning has left a sad track record of inefficiency and failure wherever it has been attempted. Even where it produced rapid economic growth, as in China, it was combined with a tension of capitalism as virulent and cruel as anything documented during Britain's Industrial Revolution.

The social democratic left understands this and seeks to use the market economy to form a society in which people really want to live. The left left bends, adopting an opposition stance in which any movement that opposes American capitalism - however backward or downward. autocratic - receives support or acquiescence.

Look at any news site on the left to see this happen. The economic chaos in Venezuela is attributed to US sanctions and a drop in oil prices - although sanctions do not apply to the Venezuelan oil industry and no similar economic catastrophe occurs in any other oil-dependent country.

Thus regimes like Cuba by Fidel Castro, Maoist China, Stalinist North Korea - and even despotic governments that resembled fascism rather than socialism, such as Baathist regimes in countries like Iraq and Syria - have received and continue to receive support from sections. of the Western socialist Left simply because economic life was ordered according to a distinct model of Western capitalism. No matter the restriction of union activity, the murder, disappearance and torture of dissidents, and the desolate land of state-sponsored cultural life - the rejection of capitalism has been seen as surpassing everything else.

There are a number of definitions of Socialism. It’s just a straw man argument to mention Chins, Cuba, or the USSR as examples that no reputable person wants to see in the US.

The US already is a socialist country in many ways. Social Security, progressive taxation, free public libraries, free public schools through high school, etc,

As for that old canard that “the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money” is perverted. Society is constructed in a way to efficiently and legally funnel money to the upper classes. It’s a cute saying, but ignores that question as to why there is so much income inequality in the first place.

So, yeah, tax them, or axe them..

OP, ask the Nordic countries.

[quote] healthcare costs are unbearable

The anti-Obamacare trolls are back I see.

Healthcare insurance costs are unbearable, but homeless-impoverishment is really a financial drain like no other.

No matter the restriction of union activity, the murder, disappearance and torture of dissidents, and the desolate land of state-sponsored cultural life - the rejection of capitalism has been seen as surpassing everything else.

Far left and its childish hatred of capitalism. You may be happier in North Korea or some other tyrannical socialist state. No one is keeping you here! If you think they do better elsewhere then by all means go away! Just saying. The system of capitalism served to drive technology and innovation and freed more people from the grip of poverty than any previous system.

To generalize all capitalists as evil would be like saying that all Catholic priests are child molesters.

Whether in business, government, religion, or life in general, people are prone to failure and greed, which ultimately leads to an abuse of power.

That said, supposing that all capitalists are evil and that everyone is trying to get to the top by taking advantage of others is narrow, ignorant and impractical. The economy is not a zero sum game. It can expand and grow as new innovations are introduced, meaning that many people can succeed without others having to fail.

If you think entrepreneurs and “capitalists” are bad people, you must admit that people in general are bad people; so the people who would teach you to hate a capitalist are bad too.

Communism, which is really just a natural progression of state-controlled means of production and equal distribution of capital. Which never really seems to be distributed equally funny enough. To each according to their needs, to each according to their abilities. Or some stupid shit like that. What really ends up happening is that the separation between classes becomes extreme and you eliminate any chance of upward economic mobility.

Eventually, you end up with a dictator who thinks you are a god. A self-inflicted ego that runs around like an angry child who needs a nap. Seriously, Mao, Stalin, Castro, etc. They all ruled a communist regime that led to the death and despair of millions. Surprisingly, however, you still see these idiots with the hammer and sickle in the flags while criticizing the swastika in the others. As for some reason, genocide linked to one is acceptable while the other is disgusting. Because, obviously, they set the rules in every debate.

Communism sucks the lives of its people by sustaining a few who hold all power. Eventually, a communist society turns into mediocrity and tyranny. Completely divided into having and not having, while defending equality for all. No middle class, no ability to separate or change your position in life.

What I am trying to point out is that capitalism offers the average person (you and me) the best opportunity to go our own way, follow our own dreams and be rewarded according to our individual efforts to do so. This is why Western society has surpassed the rest of the world in innovation to this point, and why we have been able to go so far, while others stagnate for centuries.

A truly capitalist society would strive to provide a level playing field for its citizens to compete freely. It would protect our ability to innovate and take risks in new ventures. Do not seek to limit or diminish our potential for success. This is where regulators seek balance.

Do you prefer a dictator to say what to do? A monarch? A tyrant? A government out of control? Wait, we can already have this ...

But seriously. Tell me when did the other systems work? I am waiting…

When did a nation give up its individual freedom and end up better because of it?

In fact, I could argue that we are moving away from the ideas of free market capitalism and fair competition, and moving toward a systematically distorted system of social equality in name only. Instead of working to protect equal opportunity and a fair chance to pursue happiness, we are working to ensure equal results on paper, to the detriment of freedom for all in practice.

In addition, we have repeatedly seen that the path to socialism, communism, or any economic model other than capitalism inevitably leads to mass oppression, a military-style police state, and total control of people and ideas that might otherwise, feed a free society.

R41 = “BOTH SIDES DERPDERPDERP”

The Nordic model is a nice balance between the two. Of course, they can afford it, what with their largely homogenous societies and not being embroiled in endless wars. There's a price to pay if you want to be the soi-disant "leader of the free world."

If you're 30 years old, you don't have such an idyllic vision of capitalism. And the horror stories of Soviet communism are old movies to you. What you DID see, however, was the collapse of the global financial system when you were 19 years old, followed by a decade of stagnation as the major countries of the West decided that it was more important to guard against debt than, you know, your citizens' futures. Oh! And on top of that, the US was conducting a war based on lies that cost trillions of dollars and consumed thousands of lives. So, if this is capitalism, why should we be capitalists, exactly?

If you FF and ban R54, everything after R43 disappears until R58. Psychotic loser.

R54 s clearly on a mission to conflate Socialism with Stalinist Communism, which is an absurd leap when all anyone is talking about is Medicare for All and free college tuition. Once you’ve made that jump, it’s just a hop and a skip before he’s both-siding “the hammer and sickle” with swastikas, just to remind us all that the real Nazis are the folks who want to cancel student debt and cover everyone’s healthcare costs.

who are these fucking idiots on this thread who keep treating this like a binary issue? oh, I know! It's the same idiots who think the system we actually have right now IS capitalism - as opposed to a rank plutocracy.

we need a mixed system. a free market with a strong social safety net. end of story.