Within Treason: Jock Jams (The Impeachment Inquiry, Part 4)

Link to previous thread for reference:

[quote]@chrislhayes More Sondland taking 5 hours to respond, talking to Trump, and then replying “no quid pro quo” shows 1) they knew what they were doing 2) knew it was wrong 3) settled on the “no quid pro quo” defense before it ever became public.

They have enough crap on him now. Can they just impeach him already?

This seems easy enough to digest for most people. We will soon see if the GOP and conservatives in general are hopelessly corrupt. If they allow Pres Bone Spurs to get away to the enormous scope of (alleged) crimes, abuse of power, obstruction, then the next Republican President installed will have almost no limits on what they will be allowed to get away with.

Things seem to be moving very fast. Has the dam broke? Or is it in the process of breaking?

What are the excuses that Deplorables are using now?

R6 Whatever the huge conservative machine is telling them. They are a full on cult now. Worse than Scientologists. Liberals, in general, are not susceptible to cult like indoctrination. The conservative brain is easy pickings.

The Republicans should figure, lose with Trump in Nov 2020, or resign themselves to impeachment and hope for better in 2020.

abcde

Someone please explain the jock strap reference, please?

I must've missed it amidst all the other cray cray.

R10

In Dotard's manic frenzy the other day he made reference to Adam Schiff and said he wasn't fit to carry Pompeo's jock strap.

Thank you, r11.

Creepy.

Today on the news I saw trump at a rally with senior citizens and he says to them, "You know how to make them really crazy? Say "trump, 4 more years, or 8 more years, or 12 more years! They'll go nuts!" Or something to that effect.

It occurred to me then what he means by winning. Winning is not improving our country and the earth, winning is successfully annoying and antagonizing his adversaries. He would be perfectly happy with a slavish 30% base who cheers him on while he gleefully annoys and taunts his adversaries. The winning is all about him and no one else. Everyone else are just tools who feed his sick malicious narcissism. No matter that he has to cheat to win, that's a bonus because it only enrages his enemies more. He's a sick freak as are those who support him. He will be very hard to get rid of, and that alone will be winning to scum trump and his cult.

The stuff of nightmares:

November 2018 - Republicans Hold the House

Can you fucking imagine? I almost had a heart attack that day when early in the evening it looked like that might happen before things started falling in our direction. None of these investigations would be happening. Everything would still be covered up with no way out. Our country would have ended that night. Nightmares.

This is really screwed up someone please tweet Chris Cumo and tell him that he and his producers owe the American public an apology for something in his show tonight.

He chose to put up only Rude Ghoulani’s version of the text tonight and give that side in detail and then.for a brief second said oh you can go see the full unedited texts somewhere vague.

He blatantly highlighted and propagated RG’s false narrative on prime time television. As if there is not enough disinformation going on.

He needs to be accountable for this and the rest of the media also needs to tighten up their game. The election is on. One year away. They are all going to need to step it up or be held to task.

We all must must remember the mistakes the media made in 2016 and not repeat them.

And is anybody else completely sick of watching all this unfold in a studio with cheap graphics and monitors everywhere? They need to get out in the world and step away from the dark studios and do some real investigative type work.

When CNN interviews deplorable spokes people like Kelleyanne, Rude, and the lot, i turn the channel instantly. I will not give them one second of my nielson points.

And while we are at it, Chris Cumo reading a script is, as in the intro to his show or the lead up to live interviews is like listening to the slow kid read out loud in church.

Don Lemon also drones on and on in an uneven and stuttering manner during his scripted segments.

But especially Chris. I can’t watch it. He is a good reporter but stiff and ungraceful anchor. Possibly the worst on tv.

But would you carry Chris Cuomo's jock strap? Anyone??

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Modeling Pompeo Jockstraps?

[quote]We will soon see if the GOP and conservatives in general are hopelessly corrupt.

SPOILER ALERT: They are.

The text messages and emails that Volker revealed are devastating to any suggestion that what they were doing was somehow the “noble” ferreting out of corruption. Bullshit. It was a classic mob shakedown. “You want something? Sure. So do we.” And, Gym Jordan’s deflection — “nothing in the messages that supports Schiff’s assertions” — is insane. Was he not paying attention? I know he’s a dim bulb, but even he should understand the implications of the texts.

I suspect that what they are doing is pushing this notion that there is nothing wrong with asking other governments to root out corruption (and which just happens to involve Cheatolini’s political rival). That’s not much of a strategy, but since tRump has already admitted the crime and repeated it by doing it again on national television yesterday, they haven’t got much else.

[quote]I suspect that what they are doing is pushing this notion that there is nothing wrong with asking other governments to root out corruption (and which just happens to involve Cheatolini’s political rival).

Yes, I think today will be the day the right-wing media machine formally transitions from "there was no quid pro quo" to "there's nothing wrong with a quid pro quo."

Last night's NPR News Hour had horrible ex-Bush2 Atty Gen Michael Mukasey spouting the new Repig talking point: "This doesn't amount to isn't an impeachable offense. We have an obligation to let the voters decide in 2020."

Expect to hear a lot of variations on this in the coming days.

The Mooch:

Yesterday @realDonaldTrump SHOT the US Constitution on 5th Avenue.

From R589 in the last thread:

[quote]Most rural people vote Republican because the Libertarian Party isn't viable. They are really libertarians at heart. They don't want the gubmit tellin' them what to do and putting its hands in their pockets. Unless, of course, it's to put their farm subsidy check in there.

I disagree (except about their hypocrisy in taking public funds). Rural and small-town people commonly want to dominate "others," not just be free of domination themselves. They tend to draw jealous lines of social control and freeze out those who don't go along with them, and they're above all the ones R13 above is talking about, with their zero-sum notion of success. They're the ones who want to extend their religious prejudices into law and make everyone follow small-town fundamentalist interpretations of the Christian bible. There's nothing "libertarian" about rural people in general.

r25, there's also the "racism" thing.

There's also their addiction to right-wing media, which keeps them from having to think for themselves. Brian Stelter:

Over the years, right-wing media has successfully managed to lock the Republican Party from access to its own base. Republican voters have been taught not to trust politicians or the mainstream media. So who have they been conditioned to trust? Media personalities like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, etc. Elected Republicans know that speaking out against Trump will result in facing a vicious wrath from the very people who their voters trust most.

Don’t believe me? Just ask Justin Amash, who was celebrated for years by the conservative media. Ask him what happened when he spoke out against Trump...

Yes, racism and religious bigotry go along with their closed-minded, boundary-drawing mentality.

I thought the jock strap thing was something from the Onion... sadly, I should have known better. We've entered a bizarro world where even fake news can't make up shit that is as ridiculous as what's going on.

They know a few things: women are taking more prominent roles in politics and business, white fertility is down and continuing to spiral further downward, blacks and POC everywhere are also taking more prominent roles in politics and business.....they are threatened by their perceived loss of control and power. It's really that simple. They will lie, cheat, steal and corruptly carry on to make sure it stays in their hands.

Their time is coming to an end and they're afraid. Instead of forging a true American meritocracy and democracy, they're continuing with the founding principles that keep the rich and powerful in charge. They don't care if they're rich, only if they're white. Racism drives the whole damned thing behind their insane support.

He's such a lowlife, R29. No mother would let their child be taught in a classroom or be in a room with him alone.

Let us not forget our Dear Leader did NOT say jock-strap.

He said blank-strap as any good Christyan would.

r30, it's like with the incels who grow up with that belief that because they are white straight men they are owed respect and worship of inferiors like women, gays, African-Americans, Muslims, etc. and then freak the fuck out when women go "eeeew! Not in a million years!" when these incels want to get laid.

And that's really the core issue for the conservative demographic. They were promised that no matter how difficult their individual lives would be they'd still be superior to minorities. But today that is no longer true. All they see are imminent threats to their superior status bubble. Minorities closing in and getting on their beloved superior level. And that freaks the fuck out of them, because they have no means to climb higher themselves, because - guess what - the Republicans and the 1% don't let them climb higher.

Lock him up

Benedict Donald

At least Arnold gave his leg in the battle of Saratoga, R35, and actually did some good for the country before he betrayed it. That's a whole other story....but at least he served.

This one has done nothing but harm.

[quote]That's a whole other story....but at least he served.

Yeah, but did he have bone spurs?

^ lol

Washington Post:

Intelligence community inspector general meets with Congress today about whistleblower complaint

L.A. Times:

Democrats in districts Trump won in 2016 face little impeachment backlash so far

The two points he kept hammering while dissembling on his way to the helicopter:

1. I was never worried about Biden. I never thought Biden was going to win. I never thought about Biden winning. Biden was never going to, and never will, win. I was never worried about Biden winning. I never thought about Biden winning. I was never worried about Biden winning.

2. I only care about corruption. I don’t care about politics. I only care about corruption. All I’ve ever cared about is corruption. I don’t care about politics. All I’ve ever cared about is corruption. I’ve never cared about politics. I only care about corruption. I don’t care about politics. I only care about corruption.

We have always been at war with EastAsia.

Politico:

Trump tries out new defenses as damaging Ukraine evidence piles up

[quote]All I’ve ever cared about is corruption.

Sounds like he's looking for tips.

Flailing for a defense like a wacky wavy inflatable tube man.

Just because I care about banks laundering money, doesn’t give me a right to rob them.

Great, you care about corruption. Then cooperate and remove all doubts about yourself. You won't? Then it's pretty obvious you really don't care about corruption.

Oh, and release the WH visitor log if that's the case. We'd like to compare them to the awarding of government contracts during your reign, er, time in office. TIA, bitch.

The Times is trying to kill America. For access to Cheeto.

Did anyone follow up and mention that not once on his call with Zelenski did he ever mention corruption??

At this point, how much more investigating do we need? We have the complaint, we have the call summary — which matches and supports the complaint — and we have the State Department messages, which solidly confirm that this had been in the works for months. This is so clearly more than one line during a phone call. PLUS, tRump has admitted it several times and then did so again yesterday while compounding the crime by adding China into the mix. Impeach and remove this traitorous felon and lock him up.

a REAL lawyer would have warned him not to do it.....he didn't listen to his own people in following a hoax conspiracy theory....I'd like to see Barr go down first, a' la Mitchell, and then let it all hang out.

NBC:

White House plans to spurn Democrats' request for documents in impeachment inquiry

Politico:

Romney calls Trump's push for foreign dirt 'wrong and appalling'

Well I'm sure he'd know all about it, in his little Mormon bubble of approval. It's the rest of us 47% that matter, not some dog-abusing opportunist with half a nut.

[quote]At this point, how much more investigating do we need? We have the complaint, we have the call summary — which matches and supports the complaint — and we have the State Department messages, which solidly confirm that this had been in the works for months. This is so clearly more than one line during a phone call. PLUS, tRump has admitted it several times and then did so again yesterday while compounding the crime by adding China into the mix. Impeach and remove this traitorous felon and lock him up.

There's more than enough on the public record to impeach right now. What the Democrats are trying to get, I imagine, is enough proof not to sway the Senate Republicans (they'll vote to acquit him no matter what) but to embarrass and wound them in their re-election campaigns if they choose to ignore it.

MSNBC is saying that one of the 2020 political candidates' campaign was cyber attacked, hacked by Iran. Now everyone knows Iran is a client of Russia. Duh!

Do we think it was Biden or Warren?

I don't know if this was posted already...

The Guardian: Trump allies continue to blame ‘deep state’ despite Bannon’s rejections of it

The “deep state conspiracy theory is for nut cases”, Bannon is quoted as saying, because “America isn’t Turkey or Egypt”.

There is a formidable government bureaucracy in the US, he adds, but “there’s nothing ‘deep’ about it. It’s right in your face.”

[quote]Romney calls Trump's push for foreign dirt 'wrong and appalling'

And yet he still won't vote to impeach. Watch.

For once, I agree with Bannon: if there really were a "deep state," Trump would've had his motorcade in Dallas already.

Fat Donnie is desperately trying to set up his OWN "deep state" shadow government.

That's what Rudy the Ghoul was doing! It's what mandriod Jared has been doing along with treason Barbie!

FFS, people! It's right in front of our faces! All of this covert bullshit is his pathetic attempt to create his own deep state answerable to only him!

Remember, they project. Whatever they accuse Pelosi, Schiff, Cummings, etc. Of, THEY are actually attempting or doing THEMSELVES!

R56 if it gets down to keeping the Presidency or keeping the Senate, they will remove him.

[quote]For once, I agree with Bannon: if there really were a "deep state," Trump would've had his motorcade in Dallas already.

Wrong party. Unimpressive deflection. JFK of course never came close to imitating a mob boss, which is the ideal Trump daily aspires to. They look after their own.

Ghjf

Lindsey tweeting again now. Lindsey wants a John"s cock moment. Hasn't Lindsey had plenty of those?

can someone explain what Pelosi holding an impeachment inquiry vote would do? How would that change things in this impeachment process? That's the argument Trump's lawyers are making that they will stonewall until the vote (of course they'll find another excuse if a vote happens)

Exactly R68 this is moving the goalposts/stalling/stonewalling maneuvers. First demanding a vote (while all Republicans and Dems are on break mind you), then something else, etc, etc.

It is not for The President to dictate how this impeachment proceeds.

This fucker doesn’t get to control the process. If he wants to stonewall Congress then they can add another impeachment count.

Miss Lindz is a Republican in the Senate. Yet, she keeps trying to bully Democrats in the House. Pelosi doesn't require Miss Lindz's opinions in reaching her decisions. Does Miss Lindz seek Pelosi's advice when she flaunts offering up her poontang to Bone Spurs! Absolutely not. Scissor McConnell or something instead.

Reminder: Republicans do not own the U.S. or have anymore claim to it that do democrats.

America was started in reaction to tyranny and no thank you we don’t want to go down that road again.

They need to stop acting like they own the place.

For all those bitches out there who really needed to believe there's nothing Mitch can do, or who held him to his word that he was going to allow the impeachment to proceed, etc. here's a little political ad he's using to raise money on facebook:

Exactly. Donnie is into projection. He is setting up the fucking "deep state."

All of this is going to come crumbling down in the next weeks and months. It might get ugly but heading in the right direction.

I want to see it unravel. But you know what's going on right now? They're regrouping. Jared and a couple of other people have put together their "war room" to come up with strategies to blunt all the negative press, and they are developing lines of response. Today Trump repeated the same phrases several times at his "presser" on the driveway. The other Republicans are getting their talking points, and they're coming up with a different version of the story, twisting the words, lying about the sequence of events and pretending they're normal and this is a political witch hunt. We need to keep them off balance with new revelations. The IRS whistleblower is nexxt up on centerstage.

We need to make this thread our own war room.

Keep it coming.

What's carry a jockstrap mean? Never heard it.

R76, if Jared is charge of the war room, there’s not much to worry about.

Trump already has a war room. It is called Fox News. And other corporate media, particularly cable media, have their "Trump side" narratives threaded-in throughout the day. CNN did a good bit of it starting early this morning.

House Democrats must focus, move through the testimonies, deliberate, vote to impeach. Witnesses refusing to testify or cooperate with furnishing documents, adds additional clauses to the Articles of Impeachment. Press every negative and maximum consequence for those stalling. Don't play games with Trump and McConnell. Nothing good will come or it.

Once the info on Donnie's financials start to come out, that's it.

People will be so stunned to discover the corruption and grifting, it will take everyone aback.....even further.

Shock and awe, as someone has said.

The money is the money shot, so to speak. And will be where he (and family and others....) go irretrievably down.

But it's going to be a bumpy ride in the meantime.

Russian witness thrown from a window after his name was exposed by Trump Tower lobbyist

If Iran hacked Trump campaign -- aside from the delicious karma and irony -- I think it shows more of a slide in Russia's confidence in him. Iran takes intelligence marching orders often from Moscow.

I don’t get the Iran/Russia thing. It keeps being claimed that they are always on the same page but it doesn’t look that way.

They might just come together in certain things and then go their own way on others.

Looks like the “hit the fan” threads are dying out so I’m gonna our this here. It’s super annoying to have 2 threads going but that is a waste of typing to go on about that.

A few things going on here that democrats need to pounce on immediately!

There are several schisms that are happening as we speak.

Fox News is pivoting. They must sense something. The online trolls are trying to pressure fox to get back in line. Here is one of their strategies:

“Have you noticed that since the Disney company bought 20th Century FOX, which includes Fox News, it is slowly shifting left? First indication was the hiring of Donna Braziel. You know, the person from CNN who gave Hillary the debate questions ahead of time. Yesterday, John Robert's had a debate segment. It was 2 libs against Charlie Hurd. Just like all the other rat-infested networks. It's Newsmax for me, forget Fox!”

This is a fake troll post with only one post history.

Another schism: Pence Vs. Trump. This is for real. It’s happening at this moment.

Also deplorables in general are very slowly moving away from Plump one by one. Any body who still pushes they “they will never leave him” is a subtle troll.

Even st Regan had lost a lot of support by the end and it wasn’t until years later he was “sainted.” And that was all fake anyway. Proped up.

It’s the deplorables turn to be divided. I say we help them along.

Note: Disney does not own Fox News.

Going to put up some sew polls. The deplorables are jumping ship.

Lets hope the democrats FINISH HIM!

TRUMP IS LOSING TO EVERY DEMOCRATIC FRONTRUNNER IN THE KEY STATE OF OHIO: POLL

Recent polls on Trump’s approval rating — which are probably more meaningful than impeachment polls — have also been bad for him. As Nate Silver tweeted, “Trump approval down from ~43% to ~41% since the Ukraine story broke.” (Pay no attention to stories that ignore poll averages and cherry-pick outlier polls.)

A 41 percent approval rating is obviously not good. Morning Consult released a state-by-state poll yesterday showing Trump with net negative approval in Arizona, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, all of which he won in 2016. He is hovering around the break-even point in Florida and Georgia.

I have some potentially huge scoop. I am waiting for confirmation but even if I can't get it, I will post it but make clear I could not confirm it.

Spill it r88.

Democrats need to get down to GA and FL.

Goddamn it, FCI. Just fucking post it, you don’t have to sign the post.

R89 Apparently, and I have not confirmed this nor know who it is exactly, a very large number of Republicans, some elected, some ex-pols, and those who were members of various administrations, will call for Pres Bone Spurs to step down or be removed. They will also call for Pence to be removed along with Barr, Pompeo and a few others.

Trump at a WH event this past hour:

The president tells audience in the east room that john adams - “no. 6” - was the first president to live in the white house. john adams, for what it’s worth, was our nation’s second president

Trump praises, at length, Terrence Williams, the comedian-commentator whose false claims about Clinton-Epstein and about Ilhan Omar he shared on Twitter. He calls Williams up to speak at the White House.

Trump is now attacking Van Jones at length for supposedly praising various people he's "never heard of" for criminal justice reform, on some show, and not naming Trump. "I'M THE ONE THAT DID IT," Trump shouts, saying he called up Jared Kushner to complain about Jones.

[quote]a very large number of Republicans, some elected, some ex-pols, and those who were members of various administrations, will call for Pres Bone Spurs to step down or be removed

It wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of Never-Trump conservatives came out in concert to make this statement ... but I would be shocked if there are any currently serving Republican congresspeople who would sign their name to such a piece. I would love to be wrong!

CNBC's John Harwood tweets the results of a new Economist/YouGov Poll:

should House try to impeach Trump?

50% yes

39% no

if House impeaches, should Senate remove Trump from office?

51% yes

39% no

I find it hard to believe that any current sitting member of their house of Congress (unless they've already announced their intentions to resign) would argue for a situation where Nancy Pelosi would ascend to the presidency.

I'm not going to hold my breath, FCI. Unless that large number includes about 15-20 current Republican senators, it will amount to nothing.

[quote]I have some potentially huge scoop.

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! (Like always).

R92 that sounds like a wet dream for us liberals haha I hope that's true but wouldn't surprise me if nothing comes of it

Trump will never go silently. The only way for the GOP to make him go away without dragging the GOP down with him is when Trump leaves the White House in a coffin. Pence takes over and shames the Dem Party for dragging a dead guy (Trump) through the mud for partisan gain. Pelosi will back off and announce to focus on getting a Democrat elected as next POTUS. And that would be the end of the Trump saga with the GOP still in power and mostly unharmed.

Why does the media LOVE to beat around the bush?

They are droning on and on about this and that...the president is a crook and so is his admin and the cabinet and all of them. Criminals, the lot.

So the rethugs latest strategy is to steal Liz Warrens war on corruption and steal her messaging.

I believe what FCI says is possible when you read the polls. It’s slipping away before their eyes.

We could be in landslide territory by this time next year. People are sick of it all. Now they have butterflies about the economy.

He’s toast and the only way for any rethug to win will be to come out against him. We aren’t there yet but if you read between the lines you can see it coming.

Once one comes out then they all will. Trickle, then whoosh.

The last repug to disown him will be a rotten egg.

Hot tea, FCI. Hope it's true, coz that will truly drive him INFUCKINGSANE.

NYT:

House Targets White House and Pence for Ukraine Documents as Impeachment Inquiry Grows

NYT:

Treasury Inspector General to Review Handling of Trump’s Tax Returns

Washington Post:

Iranians tried to hack U.S. presidential campaign in effort that targeted hundreds, Microsoft says

NBC:

Intelligence community watchdog testifies in impeachment probe

Iran hacking Trump is a scam. Never forget. Never forget that Iran belongs in RUssia's sphere of influence. Always. Bolton Netanyahu, etc all wanted war with Iran. Cheney's group and the Neo Cons wanted war with Iran. You know who resisted war with Iran? Trump. Bolton is gone. Iran hacking Trump probably happened, and they "failed" except for three or four times out of what, 2700 times? Sure Jan. This makes Trump look victimized. Parscale and Jared prolly cooked this up with help from one of Putin's GRU guys from the Troll factory. Damn I wish we had real investigative journalists.

Crossing fingers FCI!

Sorry you had to post that twice r109. It’s annoying I know.

Anyhow. They got him red handed now:

Ron Johnson says he was blocked by President Trump from telling Ukraine foreign aid was coming MOLLY BECK, PATRICK MARLEY, ERIC LITKE | MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL Updated 1 hour ago

SHEBOYGAN - U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson was blocked by President Donald Trump in August from telling Ukraine's president that U.S. aid was on its way amid accusations Trump was withholding it until the eastern European nation investigated his political rival.

I'm sure Johnson still supports him 100%, though.

The runaway Trump train is going to crash.

[quote]Treasury Inspector General to Review Handling of Trump’s Tax Returns

I know the IGs are supposed to be impartial but who appointed this one and what's his reputation? I don't trust anything anymore.

You know what's disgusting? Nixon got away. Reagan got away. Bush and Shrub got away. The entire party has been a criminal enterprise for 50 years and they keep getting away with it. This has to end one way or another.

Johnson is trying to cover his ass.

Johnson could be a vote to remove in the Senate. There will be others within the GOP.

R114 I agree. The entire GOP seems to be stunningly, breathtakingly, thoroughly corrupt and has been for well over 50 years. Over FIFTY. Likely longer when you consider Joe McCarthy and how spineless they were to stand up to that nut.

Our current Installed thinks he needs to cheat to win. The entire GOP feels this way.

Big business doesn't work for us anymore because they have no counter weight in the govt to push back in a healthy way that Capitalism needs. The GOP has been chipping away at all counter weights the govt has. The result has been disastrous. Business will always try to scam and cheat us to make a buck. Business would fuck us all over if they could. You must have, you need to have, a strong govt to push back. Make them do the right thing. We lost that and in the process we lost what was a great thing- capitalism reigned in.

A handy visual for r113:

What I am hearing is there are some big surprises among the names of Republicans who want to come out for his removal together. And yes, some current members of both the House and Senate. Only one name they are hearing repeatedly and that name is Romney since he is very safe in UT where they have no love loss for Pres Bone Spurs.

R119 is me.

Anyone think Romney wants to run? I actually think after Trump, a Mitt Romney/Nikki Haley ticket would be hard to beat. Two fake snakes with a smear of credibility stuck to them would be paradise for Repugs at this point.

Good for Romney to position himself as the anti-Trump. The rest are too cowardly to do so.

R122, Romney is saying the same shit that the oh so concerned Susan Collins says all the time. He's hedging, just like always.

Romney may want to run now that Warren is ascending. He'll be the anti-Trump GOP candidate who can appear to be more like Biden. Warren can beat Trump but I suspect she won't be able to beat Romney. The "socialist" moniker will seem more "reasonable" coming from him. And TPTB will rally around him.

Be careful what you wish for, folks.

Romney is a douche but he's right about Trump

And you just know that Mitt and Ann still think he can fulfill the Mormon prophesy (in their minds) that he is supposed to be president. They’re fapping away about it tonight I’m sure.

Hey, why not Mittens? Hell. He's only 72.

We could do far worse than Romney for a Republican presidential replacement for Trump.

But I'd much rather see a Democrat in the White House next.

NYT is reporting there’s a 2nd Ukraine whistleblower preparing to come forward.

Don't forget, Romney is the one who "invented" what some now call "Obamacare." He started the program for the state of Massachusetts when he was the governor of Massachusetts.

I don't want him to be president. I've been supporting Warren forever.

But as R128 said, for a Republican, we could do much worse.

I assume the Romneys won’t have a dog in the WH.

There is. He is allegedly the primary source who was interviewed by the ICIG after the first whistle blower came forward and filed a formal complaint. And the other thing,m is the IRS has a whistleblower coming out too. One they tried to suppress.

I hope all the civil servants who have been sitting there watching these fuckers destroy our government and our country will start dropping dimes and leaking shit. The fact that the Washington Post has that detailed article about how the WH staff cringed in fear as Trump talked to other world leaders, because he said stupid dangerous embarrassing stuff, is very detailed and IMO it means the people around Trump right now, as well as "former staffers" are leaking like crazy.

[quote]He'll be the anti-Trump GOP candidate who can appear to be more like Biden. Warren can beat Trump but I suspect she won't be able to beat Romney.

You're forgetting that if Romney were to run, there would be a civil war in the Republican Party. The base would not easily forgive Romney for voting to remove Trump and Pence would not be inclined to go quietly into the night.

Personally, I think there is approximately zero chance that Trump will be removed but, if he were, the turmoil in the party and the aftershocks of the trial and outcome would be stunning.

I want a fucking tidal wave of whistleblowers.

Romney will be an awful PResident. Please. He is spineless. The least amount of pressure from the GOP and he will cave on all kinds of stuff like healthcare, the environment, and gun safety. He is wrong. He has this philosophical notion that government shouldn't get too involved in stuff. He's a Conservative Republican for christsakes! No. No Romney. Now IMO if the Kochs turn on Trump, and they direct their people to turn on trump he's toast.

Romney will not go down well with the deplorables. They will NOT support him or any "normal" republican scum. They've created a monster and they are not putting that genie back in the bottle.

I don't give a fuck if the "aftershocks" are stunning. I want to see the entire Republican Party structure torn down to its foundations. They don't deserve to win another fucking election for at least a generation until they can reconstitute themselves into something meaningful.

R137 PREACH!

I bet a lot of deplorables will secretly vote for warren so they can keep their Obamacare.

I am still stunned how quickly this is all unraveling.

There is à silent movement in the GOP to get behind Romney. They want a Romney--Nikki Haley ticket for 2O20. The only way to get Trump out of the way is to impeach him, by letting the Democrats do the tough work while they tacitly defend Trump until the point the Senate takes up removal. They may accept Pelosi being President for a year. She won't run for a term. The bigger problem is the RNC is totally controlled by Trump lackeys. Romney has a relative in RNC leadership. Some states such as South Carolina and Kansas have already cancelled primaries in order to coronate Trump. Another idea is to force Pence to leave first, then Romney gets VP first. Trump won't accept Romney as his VP, Trump will not leave the Presidency voluntarily even when there is an affirmative vote to oust him. Someone will have to order federal marshals to physically remove Trump and his clan. Trump may seek Eric Prince's mercenaries for protection from removal.

These will probably be the first round of repugs to come forward. They aren’t going down with the ship.

Repugs only have one year left to find a new candidate and get him on the ballot. They better move fast. I recommend the hit the Sunday shows with guns blazing saying enough is enough. Unless they all want to lose in 2020:

LaTimes: Impeachment prospect worries Senate Republicans from swing states, and could endanger GOP majority

R141 maybe they will use a stretcher.

Or something like this:

There may be another Ukraine whistleblower:

For Repugs, it is best to impeach him. They got want they want out of him already. This is cleanest way to cut him off, otherwise he’ll be a dingleberry on the party for the rest of his days.

Well if the Republicans don't dump him they will reap a whirlwind of trouble. Because he's already shown he has no regard for Congress or for the process. And if he gets re-elected, he will believe he is completely untouchable and yes, we call him a dictator now, but we haven't seen anything yet. He will literally have no restraints. None. So he is very dangerous.

A White House lawyer was part of the cover up trying to prevent the whistleblower information from coming forward. Bet it was someone related to AG Barr?

Don't forget about the fact that Barr's daughter and son-in-law both worked for the Justice department until he was nominated for Attorney General. Now the Daughter is at the state department, and his son-in-law is working in the office of the White House Counsel.

WSJ:

In Months Before Trump Call, Ukraine Officials Sweated White House Pressure

I hope the second Ukraine whistle blower comes out and files a complaint too

Newsweek:

Why Pelosi Doesn't Need a Full House Vote for an Impeachment Inquiry, Despite Trump's Demand

the deplorables might not like Romney but the moderates and independents would LOVE a Romney/Haley ticket. I also think at some point Mass repub governor Charlie Baker will run. He's as moderate as you can get for a repub.

I almost would rather the hardcore repubs run so they can continue to scare off moderate voters

But just think how defeated the deplorable will be if Drumpf is sent packing? They’ll be sitting around in a food and drug induced coma for all of 2020

wow so the guy who wrote that book that has launched the repub attack on Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine is the same one who wrote "Clinton Cash". That Peter Schweizer is a real piece of shit

but Fox is not backing down on the Biden stuff. They're going to keep pushing it like they did with the birtherism and the attacks on Hillary in the last election cycle.

I just hope that all the damaging stuff about Trump keeps coming every day to counter it

Guys, moderates and indies would be fucking fools to vote for ANYBODY running GOP for Prez for the obvious fact the party is rotten to the core. There would be no reforms by electing anybody from that party.

Also, deplorables would be so furious enough would stay home and not vote. I think some might even protest vote for the Dem and you KNOW little Dump would probably implore them to abandon the GOP if he was removed. The GOP is fucked either way. Romney is as appealing to most as cold butter on wet toast.

Romney is not the name mentioned to replace Pres Bone Spurs- Benny Sassy is. Young, talks the talk but enough removed from him yet palatable to the base and moderates. He says all the right things (platitudes) all aspects of the party like to hear (pure bullshit). He seems reasonable but we all know he is not. Sassy-pants/Haley-bop comet is what I am hearing.

Too Bad Marco Rubio didn’t stay never Trump. It was his for the taking

Now he will be known as a fascist enabler and a traitor. Anything for another day in the sun, these people.

God forbid they lost an election for having a soul.

Sasse is just as bendy and spineless as Romney, probably even more so because he's younger and less rich.

so will Pompeo be held in contempt for missing the deadline set by the House to turn over documents?

Ben Sasse is a fucking phony. I wish he would run. We would fuck him up with his own platitudes.

Rubio is a fucking joke and would never and I mean never would have been president.

If tRump and Pence are removed — as they should be — it is highly unlikely that the caretaker president would ever be elected in his own right next year.

This will not get better for Trump and there will be a breaking point for Republicans.

I think we have to remember that the Republicans are out-numbered by Democrats and always have been. By dint of a lot of trickery and racism and Bible-thumping and NRA shenanigans and preventing black people from voting, they can sometimes pull off a very minimal numerical victory in the electoral college, even if they lose the popular vote. Reagan was the lone exception, and one reason that the Republicans worshiped at his altar for 30 years until Trump came along. (He also played the racism card very heavily, as well as the guns and religion cards). At this point, the independents are also disgusted by the Republican party, so I don't think they're going to swing to a Romney, a Sasse or a Haley until they see evidence that those politicians have been less corrupt than the rest of their party. And yes Trump's hard core 30%, which includes 80% of the Republican Party are not going to come out in droves to support Republican candidates that they feel betrayed their icon.

Fox News has no choice but to back a criminal. Their viewership tanks as soon as Trump is removed from office and they lose any credibility they have with trumpsters and soccer moms.

Nikki Haley has the stench of Trump she won’t be on a ticket anytime soon

I wonder why republicans are always more prone to being obese and slovenly that democrats.

How the fuck are Cohen and Manafort the only two fuckers in jail for all this?

Putin will flex his muscles to keep Trump in place. The real fight right now is between Putin and the GOP (and their 1% donors) to get Trump removed. And Putin sure knows where the GOP skeletons are buried. Putin has more to gain with Trump causing chaos than Trump getting replaced with someone like Romney or Warren who will try to bring some order back into politics again. And I rather hope it's Warren than Mitt Romney who is a stone coldhearted, sociopath business man who will do the same as Trump (sell the US and its resources to the highest bidder).

I have also been told there is talk among the GOP that maybe allowing Nancy to be president for a year might give them a boogeyman/woman to play off of. They know she will not get any judges approved from #MoscowMitch and his treasonous crew. There are many options being weighed but the biggest is- which GOP members have major dirt on them (it's a lot) and will they risk everything at this point?

R169 is me again (damn I forget to click my handle)

R134: I suspect you're about to get that wish granted.

I hope they go that way R169 except right as they are resigning or being removed, Pelosi steps down and they vote Clinton in as Speaker of the House. She immediately assumes the presidency and Pelosi is immediately voted back in as Speaker. Trump, Pence, Barr, Pompeo, and McConnell are immediately arrested and removed in handcuffs. Impeachment proceedings are begun against Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

I'm sick to my stomach reading this thread. Jesus Fucking Christ!! All this talk about which Republican will take office. What about none of them? Everyone knows for certain they fucking stole this presidency. Everything Trump did with Ukraine and is now doing with China is a repeat of what he did with Russia, and got away with. The Mueller Report? It did what it was supposed to do! It said he was guilty! Why the fuck didn't anybody challenge Bill Fuck-him-up-the-Ass-with-a-hot-poker Barr when he got in front of the American people and out-and-out lied about what the report said? He didn't misinterpret or spin. HE FUCKING LIED!!!

No Republican should EVER be allowed to take public office! I'm sick of it! Bill Barr's diarrhea should be force-fed to Trump with funnel!!

[quote]My President always wins in our golf games. Heading to beautiful Mar-a-Lago to try again. I have so much fun there.

R173 the problem is so much of the American public doesn't pay attention and doesn't care. A lot of people who aren't into politics have no idea how much the repubs and Fox "News" lie and propagandize. If you ask random people they'll just think they "present the other side".

Until more people are engaged, the repubs and repub media can continue to get away with their deception.

The good news is more people have gotten engaged since Trump's occupancy of the White House but we won't know how many until 2020 election. Hopefully the impeachment poll numbers keep going up too

Most people have no idea about the horrible things Trump is doing. He hates our clean environment. He is insane in every way.

Assuming that both Trump and Pence go down, the Republicans will be looking for a moderate candidate that can appeal to both Trump voters and the establishment. They also need someone who can weather Trump's scorn, because if Trump is kicked out, he still has twitter. Even if he is charged with crimes the day he leaves office, it will all take years to investigate and go to jury. Years when he is tweeting.

If Pence is being pushed out, the most acceptable consensus candidate is Chris Christie. He's a known friend of Trump which calms the Trump voters. He's a normal Republican, which calms the establishment. He's anti-Nazi, but he's a white male, so that calms the racists and women-haters. Moderate Democrats who would normally never vote for him would consider him if Warren is the candidate. And if Christie goes down after his year is up, I don't think there's anyone in the Republican establishment who would be too upset. In effect, he would be cleansing the Republican palate, and the next clown car would start lining up for 2024.

I assume that if Christie ascended to the Presidency through attrition, he would choose a minority or female candidate as VP. Haley is the name everyone would be talking about, but she would be better off staying disconnected, allowing her to run in 2024. Will Hurd would be the better choice for VP, with his intelligence community credentials and the fact that he is African-American, not to mention bringing Texas back into the fold.

There is no way the Republicans could expect their base to accept Chris Christie. They regard him as a RINO. There's also no way the Republican party would ever make the calculation that they could make up in right-leaning Independent and conservative Democratic voters what they lose in core Republicans.

After Trump, the Republican base will accept Christie's normality with a big bear hug. Christie was the number two pick for a lot of Trump voters back in the day, so he's not too far off from what they were looking for. He's a familiar face to Wall Street, so the monied class will support him. Some independents will have seen him on GMA and This Week, so he's not a scary unknown to them. The far right will grumble and will probably be Christie's biggest headache, but they will show up to vote, and they aren't voting for a Democrat.

Whoever is doing to be the consensus choice for the new Vice President — and who would thus succeed to the presidency when tRump is gone — has to be approved by the Democratically controlled House. This is not the Nixon-Agnew-Ford situation. Partisanship is at such sky-high levels that it may require the person selected to make themselves a lame duck and pledge not to run for election in 2020. Let the voters sort out this mess in 13 months.

R179 writes as if "the far right" and "the Republican base" were the same thing. Look how enthused they were about Romney in 2012.

If the Democrats refuse to approve a qualified VP candidate, whether Romney or Christie or whoever, the Democrats will be accused of plotting to put Pelosi in the Oval Office and thus "steal" the presidency. And the country will want things to go back to normal, which means the Democrats will be held responsible for stretching out the crisis. That talking point will dwarf the entire 2020 election.

How bad are things for Trump? Tucker Carlson just criticized Trump’s call with the Ukrainian president.

The Republican Senators don't have any cover on this. They can't go on the record and say it's okay for the President to commit a crime because he's the president. They can't go on the record and say it's okay to ask a foreign government to investigate your political rival in return for federal money. Trump hasn't left them an escape hatch. The Trump Presidency is in a Chernobyl-style meltdown - the chain reaction has started and it's too late now to stop it - all they can do is take cover.

Trump’s calls with foreign leaders have long worried aides, leaving some ‘genuinely horrified.’

• Trump fawned over Russian President Vladimir Putin, telling the man who ordered interference in America’s 2016 election that he was a great leader and apologizing profusely for not calling him sooner.

• He pledged to Saudi officials in another call that he would help the monarchy enter the elite Group of Seven, an alliance of the world’s leading democratic economies.

• He promised the president of Peru that he would deliver to his country a C-130 military cargo plane overnight, a logistical nightmare that set off a herculean scramble in the West Wing and Pentagon.

• In a later call with Putin, he asked the former KGB officer for his guidance in forging a friendship with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un.

• He told Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, who had overseen a brutal campaign that has resulted in the extrajudicial killings of thousands of suspected drug dealers, that he was doing an “unbelievable job on the drug problem.”

• He spent 10 minutes arguing with Teresa May about her intelligence community's conclusion that Putin's govt. was behind the poisoning of a former Russian spy on British soil.

• In a conversation with China’s Xi, he repeated numerous times how much he liked a kind of chocolate cake,

[quote][R179] writes as if "the far right" and "the Republican base" were the same thing.

I meant "were NOT the same thing." Cuz they are.

[quote]The Republican Senators don't have any cover on this.

Yeah, they do. It's all "fake news." It's a "coup." There was no actual "quid pro quo." This is all just "Democrats trying to overturn the 2016 election." "The real story is Biden's corruption." "Trump is just trying to fight corruption and 'drain the swamp'." "Government leaders ask each other for help all the time." Just watch Fox News, read the New York Post, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times, the Examiner, Breitbart, RedState, HotAir, GatewayPundit, FreeRepublic, etc. They live in a different reality than we do, remember?

Also keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of Congressional Republicans are from safe districts and states. It is far safer for them to [bold]not[/bold] vote to impeach or convict than it would be to do so. We don't have a lot of "profiles in courage" in the current Republican Party. Until you see a majority of the base agreeing that Trump needs to go, they are almost certainly not going to budge. All we have so far from Republicans Senators is a couple of them expressing "concern." Rubio's comments are an example of such "courage":

[quote]“Here’s a good idea, why don’t we wait for all the information to come forward before people start making decisions or pronouncements in one direction or the other, rather than just reflexively circling the wagons or rushing to judgment,” Rubio said. “How about waiting for everything to come forward, look at it all, and then you make a judgment of what’s in the best interest of the country?”

So can we please keep the fantasies to a minimum, or at least label them clearly as fantasies? There is a near-zero chance that Trump will be removed and an even lower chance that Pence will be removed. Pelosi is not going to be president, nor will Clinton. That's just ludicrous.

[quote]“Here’s a good idea, why don’t we wait for all the information to come forward before people start making decisions or pronouncements in one direction or the other, rather than just reflexively circling the wagons or rushing to judgment,” Rubio said. “How about waiting for everything to come forward, look at it all, and then you make a judgment of what’s in the best interest of the country?”

Good idea -- maybe we could call this an "impeachment inquiry."

Yeah the Pelosi installing Hillary as president is getting into some QAnon territory.

Lol at R188

While independents are slowly coming around and more will likely be influenced as more data emerge, the Republican base, so far, isn't really budging. Per 538's tracking on this, only 12.5% of that base are on board with impeachment. And that may well be only support for the investigation, not necessarily support for removal.

Per the Cook Political Report: 160 House Republicans are in solid seats, 34 are in likely/lean seats and just 5 are in toss-up seats.

Similarly, 12 Senate Republicans are in solid seats, 7 are in likely seats, 1 is in a lean seat, and just 3 are in toss-up seats. The rest of the Senate Republicans aren't up for reelection in 2020.

So out of 53 Republicans in the Senate and 199 Republicans in the House, only 8 are in real jeopardy at this time if they continue to ignore the data that are coming out.

Don't get me wrong: I fully support impeachment and I think it is going to be a net positive for the Democratic Party even if Trump doesn't get removed. And it damn well is the right thing to do from a legal, moral and ethical standpoint. It's long past time for someone to stand up and state loudly, clearly and firmly that what has been happening in the White House is wrong. But I think it's also important to recognize the limits of Democratic power here and to recognize the depths of the partisan divide in our country.

Ultimately, I think most Republicans will say they think Trump's behavior is unpresidential and unacceptable, but not so awful that he should be removed from office.

Hopefully that handful of Republican Senators mentioned in r190 will pay the price for their cowardice. It would only take a handful to give control of the senate to the Democrats.

Boston Globe calls on GOP elders to speak out.

[quote] Other former Republican senators need to join him [Jeff Flake] in raising their voice. It’s essential that they directly, publicly encourage Senate Republicans to focus on the rule of law and not on the party line. Sitting senators who don’t plan to run for reelection also have a responsibility to speak up and provide leadership within their caucus.

Olympia called me the other day—she's very concerned, almost as much as I am.

"Sitting senators who don’t plan to run for reelection also have a responsibility to speak up and provide leadership within their caucus."

What a load of horse shit. All senators have a responsibility to speak up. Fucking cowards.

But FCI , the Kompromat will come out fast and furious when Trump is sacrificed, right? Mitch and Lindsey must be shitting bricks.

You people are insane if you actually believe ANY Republican officials are secretly meeting to put Nancy Pelosi in as President.

Fake Congressional Intern has just outed himself as a Distraction Troll and you all fell for it.

His last few inane posts are unreality in every sense.

The State (Columbia SC):

'Sad time for our country': Nancy Pelosi talks Trump impeachment inquiry in SC

Yeah, The Republicans would rather burn down the entire USA than lose an inch to Nancy Pelosi.

Bloomberg:

Trump Orders Cut to National Security Staff After Whistle-Blower

Bloomberg:

Pompeo Says State Department Responded to Congress on Ukraine

ABC:

RNC sends 'look-a-like' census mailers to boost Trump re-election

R200, I'm sure that the "initial response" was "go away!"

Bloomberg:

Pence Derides Impeachment as Ukraine Scandal Touches His Office

The Hill:

Trump slams Romney for criticizing Ukraine dealings: 'Somebody please wake up Mitt'

If there is an interim President for just a year, it matters immensely who gets approved

And if Bone Spurs refuses to leave office, at least 55% of Americans must be assured that the U.S. military is not under any corrupting influence whatsoever.

Are you concerned about about President Trump's contacts with Ukraine's president?

61% = Yes

37% = No

2% = Not sure

Based on 39,457 responses.

Trump's obsession with revenge will be his downfall. He will not rest til he finds out who the whistleblower(s) are. I'm sure Ghouliani is working hard on it. They'll both go too far and that will be end of the Trump presidency.

R197 South Carolina is immensely divided. Pelosi went into the upstate GOP stronghold. The Trump loyalists there are rabid in Miz Lindzey's base area. Good for Pelosi going onto Trump--Lindzey turf.

While Republicans have the plurality, South Carolina is strongly divided and it is quite observable in human interactions. Graham is not widely liked, even by many Republicans, because he does nothing for the state outside catering to a few, but powerful, special interests. SC is becoming an environmental disaster, thanks to people like Graham facilitating it. They know the drama queen persona. Graham's advantage is having a ton of campaign money from Koch, the military industrial complex, oligarch funds, NRA, big banking, AIPAC related interests, the fossil fuel industry, big pharma, land developers, fruit growers, etc. Incredible cash for a politician from a small southeastern state.

And the damn media needs to stop showcasing and referencing him as some voice of reason and brilliance. He is not, and he is totally pocketed. MSNBC and CNN does it too.

They do what, R208? MSNBC (particular Joy Reid and her guests) openly laughs at him and basically say that he is peddling bullshit.

Recall that Richard Milhouse Nixon had the great fortitude to step down when even the threat of impeachment was forthcoming. Now we have an asshole as President who worries the shit out of me.

Thank you, Prolific Links Troll, for including a short description with the articles you're linking. Just wanted you to know that it hasn't gone unnoticed and that it's appreciated.

Prolific Links Troll was hurriedly trying to create a buffer from where Fake Congressional Intern is called out for posting made-up shit about Republicans secretly plotting to get rid of both Trump and Pence and then installing Nancy Pelosi as President.

We ALL want Trump and Co. gone, but NO Republicans in office will do anything like that.

FAKE-C-I outed as Distraction Troll.

r212, Because FCI stated that he hears some people discussing the strategy of a Pelosi interim Presidency does not make him unreliable.

This is what happens when people follow the dominoes falling in one direction to a logical conclusion.

He never said it was a major policy, but only that people were talking about it.

It does not speak to Republican options but to Republican desperation.

Thanks FCI, I enjoy the insight and pissing off the trolls is an added benefit.

R199 that's really scary. Even less people now will know what those pieces of shit are doing

Not to diss FCI, but what he shared was insiders basically "spit balling" ideas. That doesn't mean that it's their fully formed plan of action.

someone posted earlier that Rick Perry was resigning next month. Seems Perry has made a few trips to the Ukraine and was sent to the Ukraine inauguration in place of Pence.

Did Rick Perry hook up with any Ukrainian twinks?

I like FCI. Good stuff.

If they saw something like Trump/Pence out - the House of Representatives could quickly elect a different speaker. Younger and well liked. But it would be a cat fight.

R213, R215, R218. Thank you. I have had 212 blocked as a troll for a long time. Never mind I reported that Haley was being considered to replace Pence here before articles were written about it. I also reported impeachment was happening the day before it was announced.

I rarely report anything and I made clear when it was just "spit balling" as the one poster put it or something which was confirmed like the Haley and impeachment issues.

I don't worry about trolls attacking me. Of course they will. There are great posters who have challenged me. I respect them.

JaVanka must be finding themselves with quite the conundrum. They finally have an opportunity to push out Pence - Pence could be pressured by the Party into resigning - but of course, that looks bad for Trump.

There is another strategic angle why Trump would be getting rid of Pence. Without Pence the GOP has no other choice but to back Trump until the bitter end or lose their current government control power.

But without Pence, there is no post 1st term pardon.

Pence OWNS Trump.

But if they are BOTH...

I believe Trump thinks he doesn't need Pence to get pardoned. He thinks that pardon will come from the new world leader, Vladimir Putin.

couldn't Trump find another evangelical to replace Pence?

Trump wants someone who is loyal to him and not the GOP. Like Ivanka.

R220 FCI, there will be posters adding nothing of substance, but criticize what others say. Some are obsessed with control, others are trolls here to disrupt. I am for letting people say what they seek to say, but not be nasty or a disinformation operative for an external sourse. People can disagree, but the ones seeking to hamper others from posting, particularly stand out as trolls. This is DL. Rumor, gossip, and speculation about celebs and politicians happen. The site invites it within ohvious parameters. I like your posts. I concur with some, perhaps most. Others I may have a different point of view. I'm a DL old timer. You don't owe anyone an explanation. You are courteous, informed, write well. and contribute positively.

^source

GOPs running for cover.

No one wants to go on the Sunday morning shows (save Rudy on Fox).

Although their claims of $$$$ and support are firm with attacks, their actions speaks volumes.

Also thought the Town Hall with Joni Ernst was interesting. She received blowback from a dialed-in, independent constituent who received applause from the audience.

Also, Marco Rubio's ludicrous defense of Trump is receiving heat.

Although Trump et al are master spinners, T. Carlson's op-ed did him no favours.

With polls showing impeachment support, could we begin seeing cracks in the GOP?

I do hope the 2nd whistleblower files an official report.

I still believe this is not going to improve for Trump, it will get worse.

And our republican senators are definitely watching these polls...

Ernst's seat should be one of the top seats to flip.

If the GOP allows him to get away with this, with all the damning evidence and out in the open statements, then they will allow any future president ( only if they are from their own party) allowance to do whatever they want.

R177, Get real! No "moderate Democrat" will vote for Chris "Bridge-gate" Christie over Elizabeth Warren! Maybe a "Reagan Democrat," but they're pretty much Republican Deplorables now.

Seriously, are all of you on Datalounge 24/7? Do you have actual lives?

Some of us are very high functioning, R234. At least, here in D.C. We can (and do) accomplish lots of things at once including following the treason threads on DL and engaging in the salvation of democracy.

But you're all so tedious and obsessed. JFC these threads are non-stop. And the Mueller ones before that. Get a fucking hobby or something.

There are quite a few unknowns, but two big potentialities come forward now:

1) Further leaks and whistleblowers who are emboldened to speak out. Unlike the "adults in the room" Mattis/McMaster/Kelly etc., the civil servants may be the genuine adults in government

2) Continued examples of unhinged behavior by Trump. We have passed the tipping point and those that go on record to support his overt corruption risk their political stability....especially as further exposure of his corruption airs AND he vengefully disassembles

He has attacked Romney today for his lack of support. Like a mobster, he's showing GOPers what will happen if they leave the party line. But fear will only work so long.

There may then be a straw that breaks the camel's back.

Pot, meet kettle @ r236.

R236 Isn't it past black out drunk time in Moscow? Oh yes, you are belligerently posting from Putinland while drunk out of your mind. Take care of your shithole country first.

Mitt is 72? Damn he looks good!

If we want more of the same, by all means elect hot head Krispy Kreme Kristie! He is just an intelligent Pres Bone Spurs. He is every bit the liar and con man the other is.

Mitt is actually getting a lot of support for coming out. Even with all the trolls and deplorables trying their best, they are being drown out overwhelmingly on SM

R228 Thanks, Tundra!

Because we care about our country r236. Now sashay away.

If Mitt had won in 2012, he might be reaching the end of his second term right about now. We'd have plenty to complain about (presumably big tax cuts on high income with all the attendant shift in financial burdens, rollbacks in health care coverage, etc.), but seeing our country in hock to foreign governments wouldn't be one of them.

Just a thought.

[quote]Mitt is actually getting a lot of support for coming out.

—spit take—

I would laugh if Pence was the second whistleblower. Isn't there a story about Pence selling-out his fraternity brothers once the cops showed up to check out the underage drinking?

Axios is reporting that the moron is throwing Rick Perry under the bus now.

We've seen how cowardly the Republicans are , so maybe more of them will follow Mitt's example when they see how much positive feedback he's getting for speaking out.

R247, that's amazing. First, the call was "perfect." Now, he didn't want to make the call, but Rick Perry--feeble Rick Perry!--made him do it.

Trump has the mind of a child.

Where's Paul Ryan in all of this? Is he truly done with politics? Or laying in wait like a fox?

Definitely like a fox, R250!

R206 That sounds like an online poll, not a real poll. Don't try and use an online poll that can be easily skewed, though yes, I do like the numbers.

Rick Perry is a piece of shit but....I really hope he speaks out instead of taking the fall for Trump

tRump’s Rick Perry move is beyond stupid. He throws a Perry under the bus — but that hardly absolves him from responsibility for what he said on the call. It only makes him look like an idiot for not knowing that what he was doing was illegal. Plus, who thinks that Rick “Dunderhead” Perry came up with this harebrained scheme on his own. It is classic tRump and Rudy.

What a buffoon.

Washington Post:

Mounting evidence buttresses the facts laid out in whistleblower complaint

I hope that when this fucking bastard is finally out of office (and the sooner the better) that Twitter will ban him from posting. They should have done it ages ago, but I understand why banning the person in the Oval Office could be problematic. But once he’s out, ban away. It would kill him not to have that immediate access to his insane followers.

George is more vocal than Kellyanne these days.

He's currently accusing the Democrats of "interfering" in the 2020 election, apparently by opposing him, and "continuing to interfere in the 2016 election."

NYT:

These Republicans May Not Endorse an Impeachment Inquiry. But They Aren’t Saying No.

Washington Post: Pompeo says he sent response to House investigators, but subpoenaed documents remain undelivered

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Saturday that he had sent a response to the House committees seeking documents in their impeachment inquiry of President Trump, but congressional investigators are still waiting for their subpoena to be complied with.

Also, Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union ensnared in the impeachment inquiry of President Trump, has agreed to meet behind closed doors Tuesday with the three panels — Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and House Oversight — spearheading the probe, according to a committee aide. The official on Saturday confirmed the schedule on the condition of anonymity to discuss private deliberations. NBC News first reported Sondland’s planned appearance Saturday.

At a news conference with the foreign minister of Greece, Pompeo said he had sent a letter to Capitol Hill as “our initial response to the document request. We’ll obviously do all the things we’re required to do by law.”

CNN:

Giuliani's case rests on two Ukrainians with checkered pasts and suspect motives

Looks like the ‘hit the fan’ threads are playing for keeps. They’ve snagged the poll troll.

That means there’s a lot riding on you, FCI. And that goes for any other bold faced names in here.

We didn’t come this far to get out-scooped buy the new guys.

Miami Herald:

Anti-Muslim extremist group says it will host $1,500-a-plate gala at Trump's Mar-a-Lago

Get this woman a juicy turkey leg. Make that two turkey legs and a pumpkin pie with whipped cream. She's a treasure for Fox.

Susan Collins: Trump made 'big mistake' in asking China to probe Biden

She thinks that was his ONLY mistake?!

The twitter takes on this are hilarious

Richard Painter on impeahment and Moscow Mitch.

#RickPerrymademedoit is trending on twitter

Joe Scarborough praises Romney, disses Trump.

Ha ha

....

R256 I don't think trump should be banned from Twitter. It puts his crazy on full display where we can see it. Otherwise his ravings would be going on behind the scenes and much more dangerous. He provides us with written evidence of his incompetency and lunacy every day on Twitter.

I try not to read his tweets, statements or listen to him speak. I remember in the beginning of his illegitimate election that people from other despotic countries were warning us not to listen to his words.

This is how they brainwashed the North Koreans. It had to start somewhere.

Can you imagine 50 years of this, blaring at high volume?

People forget that watching a hi-def tv or screen with flashing images all day long is basically what they did in those CIA experiments where they brainwashed people.

There isn’t much difference between watching Fox News and sitting in one of those CIA rooms for days on end.

The only difference is that the graphics and production are much more slick.

Fox will often have a glossy, sometimes moving background where after a few minutes it feels like a trance. You can’t look away.

They are literally brainwashing these people and we need to start talking about how to deprogram these people. There has to be a way.

So many have lost loved ones and so much economic and social potential is being lost to this destructive cult and it’s shameless use of persuasive and frankly fascist technique.

The entire cabal needs to be brought to its knees and our loved ones set free from this tyranny.

People want to compare this period to Nazi Germany but it’s also comparable to the Korean War.

The fascists used communism as a front the last time around, but this time they are using conservatism as the Trojan horse.

R276. I definitely agree. At least 50% of what makes Trump so repulsive are his tweets.

Who is giving scoop to us aside from FCI? Poll Troll gives polls not scoop.

R265 the hit the fan threads being free of FCI’s “scoops” is part of the appeal of them. The scoops are all always just vague conjecture already broken elsewhere.

R280 There aren't many scoops to begin with. You act like there is nonstop scoops. There aren't. You sound jealous.

It really is sad that Trump supporters have no idea how he us hurting America and hurting Deplorables. They refuse to listen to anyone who could tell them the truth.

R282 those dumbasses have no idea that their cherished Fox hosts and commentators have the least respect for them of anyone in the country as they know they can tell any lie and it will be believed.

The deplorables think the video of Biden talking about how he got that Ukrainian prosecutor out is "the smoking gun" that is "proof of his corruption". They have no idea, because Fox won't tell them, that our government, our European allies, the International Monetary Fund and anti-corruption groups in Ukraine all wanted the prosecutor out. They think Biden just decided to do it on his own all to protect his son. Fox of course doesn't tell them that the company wasn't even being investigated at the time of his termination and there's no proof Hunter Biden himself was ever under investigation.

If the Democrats wait for documents, impeachment will never happen. They need to move quickly.

Bill Barr to do an exclusive sit-down interview with Diamond & Silk on Fox?

That's suppose to get to the bottom of things?

[quote] I don't think trump should be banned from Twitter. It puts his crazy on full display where we can see it. Otherwise his ravings would be going on behind the scenes and much more dangerous. He provides us with written evidence of his incompetency and lunacy every day on Twitter.

R276 and R278, you do realize that I said to ban him from Twitter [bold] [italic] after [/bold] [/italic] he is ousted from office — not before. Which completely undercuts the premise of needing to see his lunacy on display. Sorry, I hold to my position that once he is no longer in the Oval Office then we don’t need to be subjected to his hourly rantings. When he’s gone we will not need “written evidence of his incompetency” because he’ll be gone. At that point we will need for him to shut up and be quiet in order for us to have any hope of getting beyond this mess. He has violated the Twitter rules repeatedly without consequences. It isn’t like this would be coming from left field.

"Panic's a pretty sight" - Rhett to Scarlett

Repug Ron Johnson on "Meet The Press" panicked on national TV.

Link please.

And then there were two.

R289 ooft, someone’s stress-eating!

[quote]Repug Ron Johnson on "Meet The Press" panicked on national TV.

But his blizzard of disinformation completely rattled Chuck Todd. Watching this and George Stephanopolous with Jim Jordan, it's clear that many of our newspeople are woefully ill-equipped to confront people who do nothing but spout lies, innuendo and smears.

Agreed, r291.

By "panicked" I should have made it more clear that it was obvious Johnson got spanked hard by Trump and the stoning villagers by his recent comments seeming to reinforce the truth- Trump was shaking down Ukraine, by use of American tax dollars (ultimate grifting), for his personal political reasons.

And he was backpedaling like a mofo.

Washington Post:

‘Out on a limb’: Inside the Republican reckoning over Trump’s possible impeachment

The Johnson interview on Meet the Press was horrifying to watch. He seemed unhinged, but I agree that Chuck was unprepared to deal with Johnson’s tactics.

We are in a LOT of trouble.

You're right that Chuck Todd didn't hit him hard enough on facts, but I do like that he got visibly angry with the Fox News conspiracy theories and called them what they were.

Trouble for which there is a Constitutional remedy, R294.

Whether the Senate convicts or not, the Democrats in the House have done their duty. I'm proud of them, no matter what happens.

They convict, we have the beginning of a solution and possible healing without all the fearful rhetoric. They don't, and we clearly know our duty in the voting booth.

Nancy Pelosi needs to bring the impeachment vote fast. Put the pressure on Senate Republicans to justify Trump's behavior.

If the Senate doesn't vote to impeach, there will be a blue wave bigger than the mid-terms. Say hello to President Warren.

ABC link to:

2nd whistleblower comes forward after speaking with IG: Attorney

What a train wreck that interview was. Is Guiliani giving classes now? I thought he was the king of these meltdowns.

Unfortunately, those will only make him more popular amongst Trumpeters.

Scratch that last statement at R296. We clearly know our duty NOW.

Is there a link to Johnson's meltdown?

What kind of delusional troll believes scandal ridden and fat Chris Christie and Trumpstench Nikki Haley would run on a Republican ticket and have a snowflakes chance in hell?

So now we have a 2nd whistleblower, senior to the first one, who corroborated the original report and had firsthand knowledge of Trump's interactions.

r301, I looked for one, but, I confess, I'm not good at linking just the actual interview that without posting ads and all the other crap that comes along with it.

Here is a link from Daily Beast

Thank You, r305

Ron Johnson is a piece of shit. I used to live in Wisconsin and my heart broke when that fucker was elected.

Why don't these media folks just cut off assholes like Johnson when they start going off on tangents and conspiracies? All they do is scream and talk over everyone while spinning and deflecting.

Ultimately my take away from that "interview" was sadness. What a freaking mess! And with Chuck Todd no less, who is no Rachel Maddow politically...

Agreed, r309. And to re-assert my previous post, it was obvious he was panicked because Trump's torch-bearing, stones throwing villagers, AND Trump were after him for his statements about his "wince" when he heard that the Ukraine aide; OUR Taxdollars, were being linked by Trump to Ukraine investigating Biden.

What an extraordinary display of panic, cowardice, and subservience.

Even though he is not up for re-election in 2020 they should be playing his admission, and then his panicked retreat on a loop in Wisconsin.

On PoliticalWire they're saying Todd pushed back hard...for him.

To a degree, that was my observation, too, r312.

I'm no fan of Todd, but I've watched him enough to know that bemusement, as indicated by his facial expressions is his usual reaction to nonsense. Here, however, you could see he was genuinely angered and rattled.

Boston Globe:

Republicans maintain support for Trump while Democrats keep up pressure

CNN:

GOP challenger says Trump is a traitor for asking Ukraine and China to investigate Bidens

I know that his primary challengers for the GOP nomination are longshots and being unfairly marginalized by the RNC, but I hope they continue the strong criticisms.

Meanwhile......in the Court....

CNN: Supreme Court's blockbuster term hits with LGBT, abortion, DACA and more

Can you imagine the internal shit storm that will happen if they rule that the gay case was not OK but the transgender one was OK?

Apparently when they say Republican members of Congress are afraid, they aren't just talking about being afraid to lose an election. They ones who publicly criticize Trump or support impeachment can expect death threats and harassment that is very intense and intimidating. And these no-balls pieces of shit get "worried."

R318, the more likely outcome is that the inclusion of trans will sink the gay rights case because no one wants people with dicks in their daughters' bathrooms and locker rooms and if they find that gays are included in the anti-discrimination laws, then they'll also have to include the trans and allow them access to every single sex area or be considered to be discriminating against them. The T are sinking the rights of the L and G.

Oh look it’s the trolls trying to sow division between gays and trans

R321, did you even read the case headed to the SC, moron? Or, here, I'll write more at your intelligence level...

"No, you're the troll. Neener neener!"

Was just trying to share a little levity @r265.

I’m sure most people go back and forth between the two.

They’re both pretty.

I've had it. No more of these fucking lunatics on these shows. We do not need to be gaslighted and propagandized to death. No more lies and smears. STOP THE GOP ATTACK MACHINE!

They need to only have professionals on who are experts in a particular field.

The "Shit Hit the Fan" threads are full of people bashing this thread. Why? Well, it is one poster who is obsessed with hating FCI and claims this thread is full of fraus like behavior and we just talk in circles. Yet this one poster just vents and gossips about this thread. He is basically telling people to post in either this one or that one, not both. What a joke.

R279 Tooting my own tiny and insignificant horn, I gave you the scoop about the (now former) WH CFO's ties to an Israeli company that invented the technology to hide where phone calls are coming from, Renova/Vekelsberg/Russia and a "non-traditional loans" company in Queens.

R326 We value your contributions. You are one of the most insightful posters.

Trolls really don't like me and I give very few solid scoops.

[quote]But his blizzard of disinformation completely rattled Chuck Todd. Watching this and George Stephanopolous with Jim Jordan, it's clear that many of our newspeople are woefully ill-equipped to confront people who do nothing but spout lies, innuendo and smears.

There is no reason, at all, for them to continue to have any of these people on their shows. Let them all go live in the bowels of Fox News where they belong.

Why was the Bernie heart attack thread closed?

If you can't handle Mr Chuck "Both Sides" Todd, you aint ready for prime time

Chuck Todd playing hard ass was hilarious. So many times over the years I've waited for someone to do this when a GOPer is spewing....and it is fucking college drop out, pussy faced Chuck Todd.

Something snapped in Chuck Todd this week. He had a DARK moment on Thursday. (I think it was Thursday.) It’s like reality hit him in the face and his conscience suddenly overwhelmed him. Good.

Nicolle Wallace would have skewered Johnson.

^^That's why you'll never see Ron Johnson go on Nicole's show

That was the angriest I’ve ever seen Chuck Todd. Yes, I agree, this week he saw the giant abyss we are staring into and finally found a bit of spine. Well, somewhat. Better late than never, Chuck.

Senator Johnson of ? on meet the Press remarked that he did not have faith in the US intelligence Agencies.

R320 = Milo clone trying to blame trans people for the fact that right-wingers hate gays

Oops!

[quote]Senator Johnson of ?

Wisconsin. The state that miraculously flipped last-minute in 2016

He's espousing the absolutely insane notion that the DNC hacked ITSELF in 2016 so they'd be able to use it to impeach Trump, right?

If anybody is fluent in Crazy, can you explain how that works?

Link to Chuck Toad staring into the abyss HE helped create, please.

And he was part of that group of senators who were in Moscow over the fourth of July.

The Daily Miss Lindsey.

She was the feature of Fox News Sunday, of course.

She vows to publcly question the whistleblowers.

Yeah, maybe, after Schiff and the House hear from them first in closed session.

But seeing another hissy fit from Lindsey will be entertainment.

.

R325 I've never been in that thread but I figured from its inception that it was started by that loon that used to try to come in here and convince people that OP was a misogynist. Figured it's someone desperate to, "take over," these threads.

Ah do declare! Miss Lindsey has the vapors!

Okay took a quick trip over to that other thread and whoever is posting about this thread in there seems to be making shit up. Their weird fixation to portray this thread as being one where people are only talking about a "fantasy," of installing a new President and that this thread is just a frau thread obsessed with a crime that goes on and on after it's "long been solved..."has to be some sort of epic trolling. Since when has any of this shit been resolved?

Thanks for the laugh!

R346 It is someone who isn't taken seriously here and has been called out as a troll more than once. I have had them blocked forever. They aren't smart enough to post in these threads.

Miss Lindsay needs to be careful. Questioning them publicly could totally blow up in her face.

[quote]Watching this and George Stephanopolous with Jim Jordan, it's clear that many of our newspeople are woefully ill-equipped to confront people who do nothing but spout lies, innuendo and smears

They had at least three years to learn how to deal with the shameless liars and propadangists.

Chuck Todd has played the bemusement card for a long time because he wants to be able to book Rethugs on his show. He wants to be seen as the ultimate insider who is appreciated by both sides.

R348, the last thing to blow up in Lindsey's face was the dick of a 19-year-old rentboy

Letters to editor in SC. There's growing dissatisfaction with Graham.

Does anyone here not just skip any post as soon as they read the word 'Lindsey'?

How to Get Away With Gerrymandering

A leaked audio recording reveals how state lawmakers are taught to trash evidence, avoid the word gerrymander, and create an appearance of bipartisanship.

GOP defense: It's just locker room treason!

R352 the "don't say anything critical about Lindsey troll".

Not sure if it got mentioned upstream, but current reports are there are up to SEVEN whistleblowers.

Let the shitstorm begin!

R356, all of them are liars. Everyone's lying but my gentleman caller, Donald Trump. Donnie assured me of this when we were holding hands on the veranda

R355, wow, those are some great reading comprehension skills you've got there. What I wrote means the exact opposite. It's just boring. He says the same shit all the time. Ooh, Lindsey defended Trump in a crazy way again! Wow. At least come up with something funnier than repeating 'Ah do declare!' over and over.

Now Rudy is claiming he has evidence of Biden having corrupt dealings in Romania.

R356, that claim came from what is essentially a blogger and it has not been confirmed by any other news source. We only know of two, at the moment.

[quote] Now Rudy is claiming he has evidence of Biden having corrupt dealings in Romania.

So, he’s going to run through every country in the world until he finds one that will manufacture the evidence that he and Cheatolini so desperately crave?

What a moron.

It's almost like these assholes in the administration have two choices at this point: whistleblower or witness for the prosecution. Pick one. Tick tock, motherfuckers.

I just found evidence of Biden having corrupt dealings with Denmark!

I'm not a big Chuck Todd fan, but I think he did the best he could. He pretty much called a US Senator a liar and a fool and clown for spouting bullshit Fox News conspiracy theories. He didn't scream it into his face, but that was clearly the implication. I would actually like to see more of that, every Sunday. George Snuffleuffugus should have done the same for Gym Jordan.

I just know Biden was double dealing with unobtanium contracts in Wakanda and Tattoine!!!

[quote]Now Rudy is claiming he has evidence of Biden having corrupt dealings in Romania.

Oh please let someone convince Trump to start spewing crap about Biden having some dark and bloody dealings with Transylvania. I bet they could even get him to say he was going to have Vlad look into it. We know he loves guys named Vlad.

Can they recall Johnson?

No, R367, they can’t. There is no way to recall a member of Congress before their term ends, nor has there ever been. No Senator or member of the House of Representatives has been recalled by the electorate. Americans are unable to remove an elected member of the House or Senate from office because there is no recall mechanism set forth in the Constitution. And, when Arkansas tried to implement one, the Supreme Court struck it down.

In my county we are going back to paper ballots in Nov. which haven't been used in 35 years. Our voting system had no paper trail so they were smart enough to change it. Now if the rest of them would do it too.

R364 you should have seen Chris Wallace give some of the ReThugs shit . Chris Stewart - Utah (R) is fucking insane. This is the dude that Wolf Blitzer tried to talk to calmly and the twat kept bringing up Biden. Notice how the asshat refers to Biden as the VP as if Biden is acting VP. You know he does it on purpose, but damn son logic is hard for Republicans.

WSJ:

Attorneys for CIA Officer Behind Trump Complaint Say They Now Represent 'Multiple Whistleblowers'

AP:

AP sources: Trump allies pressed Ukraine over gas firm

The Hill:

Pentagon distances itself from Ukraine controversy

Washington Post:

‘Who leaked?’ Republican Sen. Ron Johnson’s conspiracy-filled defense of Trump, analyzed.

[quote] Johnson is trying to deflect by throwing out false summaries of the Mueller report (that the allegations were “proven false”)

I would like to focus on this point that was raised by the author in the linked article at R374. Johnson kept repeating this falsehood that is so favored by tRump: that 45 was completely exonerated by the Mueller report. Chuck Todd tried to indirectly point that out to the extent he was able, amidst all the garbage that Johnson was spewing. (Was Manafort wrongfully convicted?)

But, no one batted an eyelash when that sniveling little shit Rich Lowry of the National Review made the same false claim. This has now happened on two succeeding weeks. Last week it was that fossil Hugh Hewitt who blathered on about the same falsehood.

Mueller did NOT exonerate tRump on the conspiracy charge. He didn’t have sufficient evidence because Manafort and others refused to cooperate. Mueller had some indication of the conspiracy, just not enough. And he certainly did not exonerate Cheatolini on the obstruction charge.

This point should not be allowed to go unchallenged.

Charles Blow has a plan, and I like it!

It is hard to believe but Trump is worse than Nixon. And there is the true monster, Mitch. It feels like we are beat.

N Y Times articles are pay-walled. If you post one, a summary would be a good thing.

MSNBC just aired a show about Nixon's treasonous activity regarding the Vietnam peace talks. It was ultimately about Trump's treason.

[quote] It is hard to believe but Trump is worse than Nixon. And there is the true monster, Mitch. It feels like we are beat.

Not that hard to believe. The GOP always intended to evolve in that extreme right wing direction thanks to their greed for money and power.

[quote] Not sure if it got mentioned upstream, but current reports are there are up to SEVEN whistleblowers.

I heard one of the whistleblowers is from the IRS. Someone said money would bring Trump down. Two psychics said the money trail will bring him down-- it's probably from Mother Russia or the emollient clause.

However,, I don't think the Senate will convict.

Here is Charles Blow's OP-ED:

When the Democratic leadership was finally forced to formally back an impeachment inquiry, they faced a choice: focus broadly on all of Donald Trump’s corruption and unfitness, which could drag on for a long time, or focus narrowly on the new revelations about Trump and Ukraine and do so quickly. They chose the latter.

I happen to agree with that strategy, if one assumes that you only have one shot at this. But, I also propose another scenario: Do both. Draw up articles of impeachment on the narrow case of Ukraine, but don’t close the impeachment inquiry. Keep it open and ready to draw up more articles as new corruption is uncovered. Impeach Trump repeatedly if necessary.

There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents a president from being impeached more than once.

Trump and his administration are stonewalling in every way possible, refusing to produce administration officials for testimony and refusing to produce documents.

In many cases, Democrats in the House have taken the administration to court over its stonewalling, but court cases take time. It could be months, if not years, before there is a judgment in those cases.

Agree to disagree, or disagree better? We'll help you understand the sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week, from new and familiar voices.

But, as we are learning with the Ukraine case, Trump’s contempt for law, propriety and process is boundless. He clearly abused the power of his office when attempting to pressure that country into investigating Joe and Hunter Biden.

And, we only know this because a whistle-blower stepped forward and said something. Now, The New York Times is reporting that a second whistle-blower in the Ukraine saga is considering filing a complaint. Mark Zaid, attorney for the first whistle-blower, said Sunday that he was now representing a second whistle-blower, but that he didn’t know if it was the same person identified in The Times’s report. Could there be three?

Whistle-blowers can draw courage from one another. There can be a positive copycat effect that snowballs.

The impeachment inquiry needs to remain open after the Ukraine affair, not only to allow the cases in the courts to be resolved, but also to allow future whistle-blowers’ information to be immediately considered in the context of impeachment.

Barring a massive shift in public opinion, efforts to convict and remove Trump are destined to fail in the Republican-controlled Senate. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said last week on CNBC that the Senate would have no choice but to have a trial if the House passes articles of impeachment.

“Yeah, it’s a Senate rule related to impeachment that would take 67 votes to change. So, I would have no choice but to take it up. How long you’re on it is a whole different matter, but I would have no choice but to take it up.”

This suggests that McConnell could “take up” a House impeachment but quickly move to dismiss it, thereby allowing the Republican Senate to cowardly back out of doing its duty to place patriotism over party.

I say, in that case, deluge them with new articles of impeachment as they present themselves. Force the Senate to continually hold trials and take votes defending Trump’s wrongdoing all the way up to the eve of the election.

Some people worry that a single impeachment may strengthen Trump’s hand in 2020. They will no doubt be apoplectic about the idea of doing it multiple times, deeper into the campaign season.

part 2

But I say, Trump — and his propaganda machine at Fox News — are going to spin every scenario to their best ability. Trump is not going down without a fight, even at the ballot box.

I believe that Democrats have to place their faith in something more fundamental: the power of the truth. There are politics involved in everything that happens in Washington. And impeachment is no different. In fact, it is a purely political act.

But beyond that, there is an apolitical truth: All political corruption, abuses of power, conspiracies, cover-ups and attempts to deceive and mislead the public are wrong. Many Trump loyalists will never accede to this point, but many more Americans, at the core, know this difference between right and wrong.

Trump deserves to be impeached for every offense he has committed against the office of the presidency and the American people. That means that the impeachment inquiry can’t be constrained by electoral calendars or judicial machinations.

Precedent must be considered here. What precedent would it set if a president could simply stonewall and run out the clock in court, preventing Congress from performing its oversight and dodging any and all attempts to hold him or her accountable?

What precedent would it set if a president abused his power and broke the law but learned that he need only rile up his or her base to keep Congress at bay?

All of this would set a terrible precedent. Trump must be held accountable, fully and completely. The Ukraine development unexpectedly entered the conversation as a clear, neat package of wrongdoing that was easy for Americans to understand.

But that doesn’t wipe away the many other wrongdoings — obstruction of justice for instance — that also must be addressed for history’s sake.

I say, impeach Trump as often as necessary until all the corruption has been laid bare.

Thanks, r383. 🃏

I disagree with Blow. If the Democrats just keep impeaching him over and over it'll look like the witch hunt Trump is claiming it is. And, every Democratic president from now on will have an ongoing impeachment investigation against them from the moment they are sworn in with the Repugs just saying, "They did if first!" and the media not calling them out on their bullshit.

I hope we get a leak about the second whistle blower's complaint this week by like Wednesday

unlike with the Mueller report, Trump, Barr, Fox & repubs don't have time to prepare ahead of all the damaging info coming out. They're being hit with it left and right. They're trying to deflect by focusing on the Biden fake conspiracy theories but they're playing catch-up.

I want more and more leaks daily to keep them on the defensive

All we have to do is impeach him once and then focus on getting him elected out of office in 2020.

It's like a fight... we've struck the first blow and he's hurting.

well Trump, Barr, Fox and the GOP politicians/establishment are freaking out because FINALLY they cannot control the narrative in the way they want to. So far their attempts to focus on Biden are only working on repub media. For the rest of the country, regardless if they're watching MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS or BBC they're being reminded that there's no proof about Biden but we have a whistle blower on Trump, he's made some dumbass comments on camera and an impeachment inquiry is happening.

I just hope the Democrats do not fuck this up. Stay on the offensive.

The only other counter being tried is to take swipes at Schiff's credibility. They're trying to paint him as a liar, corrupt and incompetent. Schiff just needs to keep doing his job and not back down to them

US out of Syria.

Turkey will now handle ISIS.

So, like with Iraq and Afghanistan, we'll be at war with Turkey in 20 years.

America's motto: The enemy of my enemy will become my future enemy.

R256, If Trump is defeated he will be on Twitter (or his caretaker Ivanka will be) constantly demanding investigations of whoever is elected.

Trump needs to be arrested for the treason he is committing. I still say Mueller was a fool and a coward to insist that some DoJ "memo" took precedence over our national security.

Trying to intimidate the whistleblowers?

[quote]More and more doesn’t mean better or reliable.

Taking advice from Hope, LG?

Christ, will he ever pull his lips off Kavanaugh's asshole?

Girlfriend got the vapors bad!

The responses to La Senatrice’s tweets are always good for some laughs. He gets dragged by about 90 percent of them.

^^Defending Kavanaugh, was his greatest performance. He probably watches it constantly.

Fox News hosting Tom Finton on Jeanine Pirro show advocating McConnell change the rules to prevent an impeachment trial.

The Republican/Fox strategy looks like preventing the trial, and Senate Republicans don't have to go on record per removal.

Pompeo Action Doll. Jock Strap Optional.

Trump isn't a forward-thinker. If he's thinking about his future resume, it's because he's hearing it from someone else. Which tells me that someone is trying to talk him into resigning first before impeachment.

I think the Senate Republicans know that if there's a trial, they will have to vote to remove. But they are all hoping that there will be a deus ex machina descend from the sky to force Trump out before they have to go on the record.

I talked to my friend Ryan yesterday about what McConnell is doing - fundraising on impeachment and saying he's going to defend Trump from impeachment. Of course, he needs to recuse himself, because you can't be impartial if you're declaring Trump's innocense, but Ryan had another thought. He said that it's possible McConnell is doing it on purpose so that he HAS to recuse himself and stay out of the whole fracas. It actually makes sense. He gets to let the Senate do what they are Constitutionally mandated to do, while he doesn't have to take part.

R397, I don't think that they are that organized. He's just trying convince Trump that, at least for now, the Senate has his back, so Trump won't go completely bonkers today.

R400, I don't think that there is a mechanism to compel McConnell to recuse himself. He might be able to do it voluntarily (even that is just speculation) but he cannot claim that he has no other choice.

[quote]Now Rudy is claiming he has evidence of Biden having corrupt dealings in Romania.

"Rudy Giuliani holds up what he claims are three affidavits but is actually a printout of a right-wing blog site... Later in the interview, he reads portions from the blog site printout as if they are from the affidavits"

I never get how Mueller fans like r391 are so stupid.

Yeah, Mueller, a rich overprivileged white man, was gonna be the one to bring down rich overprivileged white men. Sure Jan. Mueller is scum just like the rest of them.

Poor Lindsey. He obliterates every last shred of integrity he ever had in service of Trump and it's still not enough for the lunatic fringe -- Trump lickspittle Lou Dobbs calls him a "fraduster."

Lindsey needs to go public with whatever they are blackmailing him with, allow himself to be voted out of office, reinvent himself as a man coming out of the closet, write a book, join the speaking circuit to preach about how everyone should come out of the closet, join CNN as a commentator, join the boards of a couple of corporations, and then retire rich with a young boyfriend. He just needs the courage to take the first step - before Trump outs him anyway. Because Trump is going to take everyone down with him, because that's just the way Trump rolls. #ETTD.

Headline from The Hill and Axios: "45 told house Republicans he doesn't want impeachment on his resume". LOL. Since when has he cared about his "resume," or lack thereof? Failed casinos, flailed financials, failed deals with all sorts of states and countries including Russia, failed marriages, failed as a father, fraud at Trump U, failed with fraud at his so-called charity, and failed at winning the presidency. Impeachment would be a perfect fit to his resume.

Headline from The Hill and Axios: "45 told house Republicans he doesn't want impeachment on his resume". LOL. Since when has he cared about his "resume," or lack thereof? Failed casinos, flailed financials, failed deals with all sorts of states and countries including Russia, failed marriages, failed as a father, fraud at Trump U, failed with fraud at his so-called charity, and failed at winning the presidency. Impeachment would be a perfect fit to his resume.

I could kiss Charles Blow.

Pics please ElderLez.

Wait, what did I miss that was so great, our dear Elderlez would kiss a man named Blow?

Getting impeached and only be a one-term President, or having to resign, would make Trump look like a loser compared to Barrack Obama. That and Putin will not allow it. Somehow I believe Trump and Putin communicate and it's Putin who tells him to hang on since "help" is on its way.

McConnell only cares about money and power. Doing the right and noble thing is not in his DNA, and he will pull a stunt to save his own and Trump's neck at the last minute by breaking protocol which they don't mind doing these days when it benefits them. They only use protocol and laws when they benefit them and disregard the same protocols and laws when they get in the way.

R407, I can believe that he doesn't want to be known as the 3rd? Impeached Potus in the US history. He is extremely vain and narcissistic, and impeachment will sting like a MF.

He also lost the first round trying to keep his tax returns secret.

Judge is a Clinton appointee, who oddly enough was appointed to replace Sonia Sotomayor when she was appointed to Appeals.

R403 your white male hate language is best suited elsewhere.

News of the he World guy:

Lachlan Murdoch needs to account for these conspiracy theories, distortions, and lies, perpetuated on Fox. It is ruining America.

R403, I'm a "Mueller fan" by calling him a coward and a fool? (r391)

What would a non-fan say about him, then?

This Syrian pullback is awful. He betrayed the Kurds, is kissing the ass of Erdogan and Putin (surprise! what is the quid pro quo?) , and being incredibly short-sighted.

I know there is a public desire to get out of conflict zones but this is opposite of how you handle a draw-down.

^He probably wants to save the money and spend it on his wonderful wall instead. Fuck the allies - who are 7000 miles away anyway .

LJR: U.S. President Donald Trump overrode his top national security aides, blindsided U.S. ground commanders, and stunned lawmakers and allies with his order for U.S. troops to leave Syria, a decision that upends American policy in the Middle East.

The result, said current and former officials and people briefed on the decision, will empower Russia and Iran and leave unfinished the goal of erasing the risk that Islamic State, or ISIS, which has lost all but a sliver territory, could rebuild.

Winning!

Also, the Kurds, who helped us defeat ISIS, are betrayed and face the potential of attack/invasion by the Turks, with the potential for genocide.

From r393:

Tania @blondy2373 · A good time to remind America that these @GOP senators spent July 4th 2018 in Russia with meeting with Putin.

Trump is trying to reassure us about the Kurds. Somehow I don't feel reassured.

"...if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey..."

Said this on another thread. We really need to do a much better job of "demonizing" Putin and RUssia. Too many people just don't get it. He is an evil bastard and he has been hurting us and his own people for decades. He has destabilized the Middle East, and the rest of the world, and has bled his own country dry. He and his oligarch buddies a r e parasites. He put Russia's economy in the shitter, and he is a predator who is now attempting to annex Ukraine and reconstitute the old Soviet Union, and go after weaknesses in Europe and the USA to get away with his predations. He fuels dissent and division and has very effectively weaponized the internet. Poisoning people, arresting demonstrators, destroying lives, etc. It has been a master plan for a very long time. If we want to get rid of the Republican enablers, we need to galvanize public opinion sothey can clearly see Putin is an evil presence. And it isn't just putin. This has been building as part of Russia's grand strategy ever since the Soviet Union broke up and the country became a rogue state in the thrall of a criminal organization.

Like I said in the other thread, he sounds like a Bond villain.

He is.

Saw this article today. Rick Perry leading a group of trump allies to engineer Ukraine gas company board to push business and profits their way. Foiled by the election of Ukraine's new president (his opponent was in on it).

R422 WTF with that tweet?!

He either is unhinged, or simply does not take his job seriously.

In either case you #Twenty-five45

[quote]We really need to do a much better job of "demonizing" Putin and RUssia.

That's what Republicans did in the pre-Trump era.

[quote] in my great and unmatched wisdom

🙄

It could have been The Onion, but it wasn’t. Instead, it would appear that his unrestrained narcissism has gone over the cliff at 180 mph.

Fucking insane.

[quote]"...if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey..."

Wait, what?!? He actually said this?

All the while Putin is shipping in tanks by rail into Ukraine for his inevitable Ukrainian Anschluss.

Yes. The whole tweet(s):

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over the captured ISIS fighters and families. The U.S. has done far more than anyone could have ever expected, including the capture of 100% of the ISIS Caliphate. It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory. THE USA IS GREAT!"

Maybe what Perry was doing wasn't technically illegal. Maybe it was like when there are companies who go overseas for trade deals. For example: let's use Norm Manetta, or Ray La Hood, both served as Transportation Secretaries for other administrations. Let's say our Auto industry wanted to open up new markets, or establish manufacturing in Namibia or Albania. The Secretary would assist, support, guide and help them.

And yes, usually in every administration there will be supporters of the party in power, or the President, or some other favorseekers involved somewhere along the way. Let's say Caribbean nations or countries in South America want our technological expertise to deal with water purification or waste management, etc. and we have engineering companies here who want to go there and get contracts to perform work. I'm talking about legitimate companies not fly by night con artists like the shits who went to Puerto Rico who tried to "fix" their power grid after the hurricane.

What I'm saying is that there is a legitimate function Rick Perry as Energy Secretary, could have been involved with, but then Giuliani and his thugs, and the shady people who are part of the scene in the Ukraine got involved. Not saying Perry is innocent, just saying he is not bright enough to figure out the game and do the right thing. Eastern Europe is full of shady operators scam artists and corruption, and GIuliani was wallowing in it. Makes me believe the old rumors about him. Some say he got rid of John Gotti, (and was celebrated for it) because he was on the payroll of the Russian Mob, and they wanted to break up the Italian mafia presence once they had established themselves in NY.

David Frum posits possible motives for Trump's Syria move:

1) Protecting income flow from Trump Towers Istanbul

2) Payoff to Turkey to cover up recording of Khashoggi murder by Trump allies

3) Obeisance to Putin

4) Warning to House: if you impeach me, Ill burn every American alliance and interest before I go

Hunny, I say "All of the above" and please. Change the order, Mr. Frum. Putin always comes first. Trump doesn't take a shit without getting permission from Vlad.

Rick Perry thought his job was to be the official Oil and Gas Lobbyist for the United States. He had no idea that the DoE also oversees America's nuclear weapons, nuclear reactors aboard naval vessels, radioactive waste disposal, and physical sciences research.'

Yes, he's that dumb. It's a miracle he's lasted this long.

The Hill:

Hillary Clinton calls Trump's Syria pullout a 'sickening betrayal' of allies

AP:

Trump's Syria withdrawal announcement draws GOP condemnation

Reuters:

Democrats call on U.S. diplomats to testify over Trump-Ukraine efforts

[quote]Trump's Syria withdrawal announcement draws GOP condemnation

I'm sure they have plans to do something about it...

*crickets*

Oh, come now, R440, you know they'll be "very concerned" and they'll frown very convincingly. What more could you possibly want?

Speaking of, has anyone checked on where we are on the Susan Collins Concerned-Disappointed continuum?

So, will Ertiwan, Turkish autocrat, be announcing dirt on Hunter Biden & Joe in a few days?

This looks like a sordid deal to sell-out the Kurds in exchange for something announced.

China statement was a diversion. Focus on Turkey. The media needs pursue this angle instead of the China red herring.

[quote] Trump's Syria withdrawal announcement draws GOP condemnation.

Has anyone noticed that all it takes for La Senatrix to change her mind is to play golf with Trump? It's like playing on a loop. Graham is angry / outraged / concerned about something Trump does, and then he goes golfing with Trump and after that Graham does a 180, and he praises and justifies Trump's actions. What's really going on here? Is Graham pretending to be angry / outraged / concerned so Trump is golfing with him (is that his Brokeback Mountain moment?), because the other solution would be that Trump has to remind him every single time what Putin and Trump have on him, like does he have Alzheimer or something?

unannounced, not announced

[quote] Trump is trying to reassure us about the Kurds. Somehow I don't feel reassured.

[quote] "...if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey..."

We are so fucking dead!

R444 and others.

Anyone remember the original Stepford Wives? The day Graham played golf with Trump and came back a different person, is just like in The Stepford Wives when Paula Prentiss went away for a 3-day weekend and came back a robot.

I've been calling him Stepford Lindsay ever since.

Credit to Susan Collins for her courageous leadership in the fight against these blood-suckers.

Will Trump approve the extradition of the Manafort cleric that Erdogan wants to kill a la Kashoggi?

What I found interesting in this latest incident, Trump announcing the withdrawal of support from the Kurds, is that this is a MAJOR SERIOUS SHIFT in U.S. Foreign policy. A huge deal. These were our allies.....and Lindsey Graham seems like he didn't get any advance warning. He didn't know. Like maybe Trump didn't mention it to him? I find the possibility of that fascinating. Lindz has very close ties with top people in the Defense Department and a lot of them are rightly pissed about this.

Because he probably thought it up on the crapper last night.

Lindsey, you are an enabler of Trump's crazy and dangerous behavior. You are partly responsible.

And another golf outing, and you'll melt on this too.

Lindz will back down. His protests are all for show and he and Trump both know it.

Another Poot Poot weasel.

I don't know when he thought of it, but the troops a re moving out right now.There are photos of it, and that kind of re deployment doesn't happen over night. I've also read that military people were trying to talk him out of it, so this has been percolating for more than a minute. Bet it was on Putin's "to do" list.

Congress, somebody, better get Bone Spurs ass out now. He is destroying the U.S. in exchange for tax cuts and deregulations for the ultra-wealthy, and appointing, so far, over 150 pro-corporate right-wing judges.

Unsurprisingly, the Kurds are not happy, are calling this a betrayal, and are vowing to stand and fight.

[quote]Syria’s Kurds accused the U.S. of turning its back on its allies and risking gains made in the fight against the Islamic State group as American troops began pulling back on Monday from positions in northeastern Syria ahead of an expected Turkish assault.

[quote]U.S. President Donald Trump’s abrupt decision to stand aside — announced by the White House late Sunday — infuriated Kurds, who stand to lose the autonomy they gained in the course of Syria’s civil war.

[quote]The Kurdish force pledged to fight back, raising the potential for an eruption of new warfare in Syria. “We will not hesitate for a moment in defending our people” against Turkish troops, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces said in a statement, adding that it has lost 11,000 fighters in the war against IS in Syria.

[quote]As many as 300,000 people could immediately be driven from their homes in northeast Syria if Turkey launches its offensive, the International Rescue Committee warned Monday.

The Kurds were successful against I-SI-S fighters in Syria and Iraq. They fought Saddam prior. Allowing the Turkey military to go into Syria and annihilate the Kurds is a travesty.

This favors Turkey and Putin. The U.S. government can't be trusted by dwindling allies.

Out-of-media coverage, Pence told Trump he would not take the fall for Ukraine. He has GOP backers. Now, Trump and company are trying to make Rick Perry the mastermind fall guy. This shit started with Rudy and Trump.

Out-of-media coverage, Pence told Trump he would not take the fall for Ukraine. He has GOP backers. Now, Trump and company are trying to make Rick Perry the mastermind fall guy. This shit started with Rudy and Trump.

The impact of this decision goes way beyond the Kurds in Syria. This sends a terrible message to any country expecting the United States to honor its commitments as an ally. It's a despicable act and a complete betrayal of our country as well.This is going to do us grave long term damage. Trump needs to be removed from office. Any other PResident even when I disagreed I would have at least felt it had been discussed with the Military, and the State department to weigh the impact of such decisions.With Trump there is no process. No deliberation. I hate him.

And yet the military plays along with Trump. CIA, FBI, cops even selling "I'm with Trump!" T-shirts. Everybody knows that the latest stunt favors Putin and Russia ... and they (CIA ...) play along.

I suspect that the military knows something we don't. They want a war to justify their major funds and get even more funds further down the road. The trouble this will cause will create a Middle East War that requires more men (aka cannon fodder), weapons (more money for the military weapon industry), and provides Trump with a distraction for years.

This is straight from Putin. "I'll help with the election but you've got to pull out of Syria." Or worse, it might be more than a request.

Turkey may have promised to manufacture dirt on the Bidens, build a Trump hotel in Istanbul or a Trump golf course along the Turkish Mediterranean coast. Oh, and buy a pile of Ivanka's junk jewelry.

and this comes off a not-so-covered incident this weekend in Boston. A Celtics player was walking out of his Mosque service when he was confronted by a few Turkish men who were harassing him for his outspoken comments against the Turkish leader. Were these men sent by Turkish government?

Bone Spurs is a Putin asset Putin calls the shots.

Republicans are just blind, stubborn and mean. Trump could rape babies, they would not care. Repugs are like that.

R468, oh please!

Everyone knows that baby is a libtard slut!

NYT:

Trump Declares ‘Time for Us to Get Out’ of Syria as Republicans Object

"And yet the military plays along with Trump. CIA, FBI, cops even selling "I'm with Trump!" T-shirts."

Where do you see the CIA and FBI selling those T-shirts? Those organizations would never do something so stupid on an institutional level.

Newsweek:

Exclusive: Official Who Heard Call Says Trump Got 'Rolled' By Turkey and 'Has No Spine'

USA Today:

What will happen this week with the Trump impeachment inquiry?

Washington Post:

As interviews get tougher, Team Trump doubles down on avoidance

Took only half a day. Lindsey is "softening" on Trump-Turkey arrangement per Syria. Then, blames Obama...again.

Lindsey must have received something that Lindsey deemed delicious in partaking for lunch that spurred a shift

"Exclusive: Official Who Heard Call Says Trump Got 'Rolled' By Turkey and 'Has No Spine'

Trump doesn't do things that will benefit the USA. Trump does things that will benefit him, his family and/or The Trump Organization and its "brands."

Once you accept this premise. everything Trump & Company doe$ makes $en$e.

it is weird how the repubs have social "ownership" of most armed service members. Yes there are some liberals and moderates but most of them vote for repubs reliably. A lot of them don't care about all of Trump's insults and slights towards them. A lot of them credit him with getting a raise even though that is approved by Congress

I think that's a myth perpetuated by Republicans . A lot of servicemen and their officers liked Obama and respected him.

I'm not up on all the policies and which are right and wrong, but I do know it's wrong to leave a faithful ally to be slaughtered, and that's what Trump just did. I think Putin thinks Trump is about to go down and he's calling in all his chits.

The article at r472 is absolutely damning.

Not nice.

AS I read the article at R472 it was obvious to me that this didn't happen in a vacuum. It didn't all get decided Sunday on that phone call. Erdogan was already getting ready to invade. So IMO Trump had been in talks with Putin and Erdogan before this.

Trump has repeatedly and brutally insulted the FBI and the CIA. He has taken money from the military budget for his stupid wall, and he has refused to follow military advice. No doubt he has support from some of the rank and file of the military, but the officers must be repelled by him by now. There’s no reason to think he has institutional support from the FBI, the CIA, or the military.

And don't forget those AF bases in FLA that were shuttered due to hurricane damage...funds siphoned for his wall.

I doubt after his treatment of McMaster there is much love for Trump in the military. I'm sure they think he's a fucking moron.

Mattis too. Mattis is loved and respected. In fact he resigned because of this very thing, pulling out the troops from Syria, abandoning the Kurds. That was a large part of his disagreement with Mattis. Chris Coons was on with Katy Tur and saif that members of Congress and of Trump's own team, like Mattis had been able to pull him back from the brink at the last minute, in December, 2018, but then here he comes again, like a fucking sneak thief, (my words) and this time he does it! The troops are on their way out starting this morning in Syria. and Erdogan is on the border poised to invade. He seems surprised at the blowback and now he's lying about how many troops he's pulling out, and how he did consult, and the media is peddling fake news, etc. This was part of Putin's wish list, I'm convinced of it. And those dumbassed Repubicans in Congress need to think real hard about this. Because if Trump gets re elected, he will not be accountable. THis is a preview of what he will do once he is unleashed with absolutely no checks on him. A 2nd Trump term would literally spell disaster for this country and they need to realize it.

With the UK poised to leave the EU without an agreement, Russia is poised to invade Ukraine on Friday, November 1st.

Look for a thousand dollar drop in the DOW by Monday the 4th.

If shit is going to go wrong in the economy, it is going to go wrong in the 4th quarter.

Move into cash NOW!

With Trump fucking over the Kurds, the Republican Senators have more cover to vote Trump out. If one had a conspiratorial mind, one might think someone is deliberately giving Trump bad advice just to get Trump the hell out of office as soon as possible. And Trump jumps on it, because he thinks any distraction will be a good distraction. Sucker.

He's cashing it in now while he can. He's got his laundry list and has to get it done. It's no surprise to anyone who's seen him as the Russian asset he has repeatedly demonstrated himself to be.

That would make the entire GOP Russian assets.

Certainly the group that went there on the 4th of July

Of all days to sell out your country.

There are no bad optics when it comes to conservative Republicans. Of course, Liberals are a totally different matter and deserve to be scrutinized for even the slightest thing ... and if nothing can be found, the right-wingers just make something up.

[quote]“I’d take you upstairs,” he told our reporter, ”but there’s a whole lot of underwear on the floor.”

[quote]At the townhouse he shares with fellow Republican Hilleary, Graham shows Motsch his “garden” (a patch of dead weeds) then leads her into the living room ornamented by “eclectic antiques and full bookshelves” that came with the house.

[quote]“I’d take you upstairs,” he told our reporter, ”but there’s a whole lot of underwear on the floor.”

I wonder whose?

[quote] “I’d take you upstairs,” he told our reporter, ”but there’s a whole lot of underwear on the floor.”

Kind of wasteful to buy hot guys' used underwear and then let all the musky, hot guy smell evaporate by just tossing them on the floor.

Think about it. If he's like this now, can you imagine what a second Trump term would be like with no "guardrails?"

New book "Deep State" describes anti-Hillary bias within the NY FBI In the months before 2016 election. It quotes agents' messages like "you have to get her," and "you guys are finally going to get that bitch." Why are we only hearing about this now!?

R497 We all knew it. The media, once again, drops the ball. Ruby Julie practically gloated about it.

US News & World Report:

Trump Administration Appears to Reverse Syria Decision Following Backlash

Washington Post:

From all-in Trumpers to the lone critic: The four GOP factions on Trump and Ukraine

Miami Herald:

Florida businessmen with Giuliani, Ukraine ties won’t comply with impeachment inquiry

Reminder...The Maria Butina charging documents stated that there were secret societies within the GOP that were aligned with Russia.

[quote]Turkey may have promised to manufacture dirt on the Bidens, build a Trump hotel in Istanbul

There are Trump Towers in Instanbul.

[quote]"Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!" Ivanka wrote in April 2012. The construction—made up of two conjoined towers—is one of seven current Trump Towers locations.

[quote]Trump himself has previously admitted that the towers represent a conflict of interest in dealing with Turkey. In a 2015 radio interview, he explained, ""I have a little conflict of interest, because I have a major, major building in Istanbul...It's called Trump Towers. Two towers, instead of one. Not the usual one, it's two. And I've gotten to know Turkey very well."

R502 It did.

So my source saying a growing number of Republicans, some elected (I mentioned Mitt was at the center), were coming out strongly against Pres Bone Spurs looks to be gaining steam. I never confirmed this, as I told you all, so I can't take credit. Mitt is reaching out to a lot of the "resistance" it is being reported (Lawrence just did a story). There is a lot more but I did say it had elected officials tied to it.

That being said, it is all Republicans so it could easily crash down.

R501 those businessmen need to be cuffed, then.

"Lindsey must have received something that Lindsey deemed delicious in partaking for lunch that spurred a shift"

I think Lindsey is on the receiving end of some "Advise and Consent" style blackmail

R506, thanks for mentioning that book! It got me interested in politics at a pretty young age. Remember what happened to the protagonist? Do we think it’s a possibility for Miss Lindz?

Any chance the anti-Erdogan contingent of the Turkey population will rise up against the upcoming slaughter in their names?

All the issues in the world is because of conservatives. All the bad leaders, even Venezuela (no liberal would be a dictator) is truly a conservative.

Guess who sponsored a conference at a Trump hotel earlier this year?

[quote] no liberal would be a dictator

R511, go ahead and give us some examples, idiot.

R512 He can't. He will point to the Nazi party having the word "socialist" in it.

Liberal dictator:

Liberal dictator:

Liberal dictator:

A lot of those "liberal" dictators were not very liberal on a lot of issues.....

Liberal dictator:

The point being that dictatorships can occur when either side goes too far.

Most of those guys were not very liberal at all. They used the form of govt they had to advance their very unliberal like ways.

Dumbass shows a picture of Lenin, but are you familiar with the concept of the "unity of opposites?" Check it out. it's true.

No that’s not the point r519

People need to go back to political science class and learn the difference between fascism and democracy.

This is a right wing tactic to confuse idiots. “Hitler was a socialist” parlor trick that even a community college education would inoculate.

Turkey was threatening to seize trump assets just last year in retaliation for US sanctions. I guess they threatened that again last night.

Like most, if not all, trump properties, he's just being paid for the use of his name. Others build and maintain them. In 2016 Turkey threatened to remove trump's name from the towers, angry over the Muslim ban.

R519, there’s no both-siderism. None of those dead guys were “liberal.” They’d have been repelled by the thought. Castro was, in many respects, an actual communist ( not a liberal or a socialist) but not Lenin, Stalin or Mao. They were cult of personality tyrants.

[quote]People need to go back to political science class and learn the difference between fascism and democracy.

People also need to understand that fascism is but one form of totalitarianism. Other forms include varieties of communism (Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, NK), fundamentalist religious regimes, dictatorships, juntas, etc. None of the leaders of these regimes were /are liberal. A liberal totalitarian is an oxymoron.

The right wing knows that their real enemy isn't the extreme left because they are two sides of the same coin. But perversely, the right wing propaganda has succeeded in re-branding its real enemy - the liberal concept - into some extreme leftist voluntaristic or deterministic cookie monster.

[quote]People need to go back to political science class and learn the difference between fascism and democracy.

People also need to understand that fascism is but one form of totalitarianism. Other forms include varieties of communism (Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, NK), fundamentalist religious regimes, dictatorships, juntas, etc. None of the leaders of these regimes were /are liberal. A liberal totalitarian is an oxymoron.

The right wing knows that their real enemy isn't the extreme left because they are two sides of the same coin. But perversely, the right wing propaganda has succeeded in re-branding its real enemy - the liberal concept - into some extreme leftist voluntaristic or deterministic cookie monster.

^^ Said officials were said to be Sessions and Kelly.

Might I suggest for the next thread: Halloween III: Treason of the Mitch?

Pence is going on an anti-impeachment "town hall" tour in swing districts won by the Dems in 2018, some of them narrowly. He's targeting those who have supported Nancy and the impeachment inquiry. Going to Iowa.

Trump Campaign is blaring anti-Biden ads on msnbc and probably all other "MSM".

Trying to pull a Hillary and her buttermales on Biden. I want to think people are onto them this time and will be smart and not fall for their lies and propaganda.

The withdrawal from Syria can be presented to the public as another very simple narrative, similar to the Ukraine phone call. the Kurds After a weird phonecall with Erdogan, Trump stabs our war ally the Kurds in the back, and leaves them to be slaughtered by puppet master no. 2, Turkey. Of course he acts as an agent of Turkey because of his businesses there. The Kurds did all the dirty work fighting our fight against Isis in Syria, and our commander in chief repays them by betraying them. He's disgraced us in the eyes of the world as a nation whose word means nothing and who should not be trusted in any way. He is a clear and present danger to US national security.

I hope the Sondland hearings aren't going to be an embarrassing shitshow for Democrats. Since he's a Trump donor and appointee wouldn't that mean he'll likely try to stonewall and avoid answering? They can't let him get away with Lewandowski behavior. Hopefully they'll be tougher

Schadenfreude is my toast this morning.

Going back to political science class? Most of the people watching FOX still think class is something you can buy. Their opportunities to attend a political science class were likely limited.

Impeach now. It has been obvious for a year Trump turdettes are not going to comply with subpoenas or they will stall in cooperation otherwise.

But actually doing something interferes with Congressional vacations and recesses.

[quote]But actually doing something interferes with Congressional vacations and recesses.

That's not the reason. Sure, they can impeach for Contempt of Congress. But they do the most damage if they get Senate Republicans on the record as acquitting after they've built a strong case. In a just world, what they have would be enough, but this isn't a just world, and it isn't enough.

People complain about the recent recess but fail to recognize that it came during the High Holy Days, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. It's as important as Christmas is to Christians.

CNN says The State Department witness is not going to show up for the hearing this morning!

Is that Sondland?

Might as well tack on additional contempt charges for the impeachment vote.

To add to R532's remark on the simple narrative of this withdrawal from Syria, we can quote Trump's own words as commentary (from a Breitbart interview with Steve Bannon in the early days of the campaign in 2015): "“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul. It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers—two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”

Congress was off August into September. Then two weeks off a couple weeks later? That's not getting work done.

DJT is a weak negotiator. He failed at real estate negotiating. He survived by cheating, stiffing contractors, evading taxes, borrowing funny money, embellishing, and deception.

He is good at wiggling out of prosecutions, finding dirt on others, intimidation, bonding with other shady characters after easy, unaccountable money.

[quote]The White House's decision to block the release of aid to Ukraine offers a potential paper trail that House Democrats believe could bolster their case for impeachment against Trump, congressional sources and former U.S. officials told NBC News.

Lindsey Graham invites Rudy Giuliani to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Chairman Schiff: "The failure to produce this witness, the failure to produce these documents, we consider yet additional strong evidence of obstruction of the constitutional functions of Congress." Via CBS

Add it to the pile Adam!

Gym Jordan, Meadows, Gaetz, Nunes, Ratcliffe, and Gohmert.

They are so lovely.

Republican Calif. Congressman Duncan Hunter's corruption trial is delayed until January 22nd.

Duncan Hunter is proof that Deplorables are Deplorable and will vote party lines regardless of the crime.

NYT:

Witness in Trump-Ukraine Matter Ordered Not to Speak in Impeachment Inquiry

Erdogan will visit the WH next month, because Trump can’t defile the office often enough.

The Hill:

Graham says he'll invite Giuliani to testify about Ukraine

[quote]In less than a year and a half, we could have a real Attorney General who will go after corruption. I believe Congress should start considering offering testimonial immunity for key witnesses to try to break the massive obstruction by the Administration.

USA Today:

Who is Gordon Sondland? Impeachment witness was key player on Ukraine

Richard Engel reports that no US troops have left Syria, generals may be ignoring Dump’s commands.

I'm obsessed with the idea you can buy jocks for you and your buddies for only $1.50

That makes me happy.

Duncan Hunter has coke face.

Crushed up Sudafed face you mean...if he's partying with Trump.

If ever there was something that needed a, "Sure, Jan..."

Sondland has texts and emails on a personal device which State Dept is withholding from Congress.

R547 - Okay Schiff and...what are you going to do about it?

[quote]The Hill: Graham says he'll invite Giuliani to testify about Ukraine

I look forward to it.

Gym Jordan in his remarks at R561 is his typical ridiculous self. Whether the whistleblower is anonymous is irrelevant. Same with whether that person has “first-hand” knowledge. The call notes and the texts give sufficient factual support to move forward with the inquiry. The real reason they don’t want Sondland to appear is because he has information that is damaging to tRump, which he could either give if he testifies honestly or perjure himself.

Despicable.

The criminals are in charge of our government.

Go figure out why Captain Kangaroo is trending on Twitter. I won't ruin the surprise for you.

What R566 is talking about.

LOL

Funny how all of a sudden photographers have given up making Gym Jordan look taller.

He is a tiny, mean man.

Gym Jordan has an enormous head for such a tiny man. His head belongs on someone who is over 6' tall.

Gym Jordan looks like a rapist.

Gym was a towel boy for male sexual assault?

Gym Jordan has surely successfully carried around lots and lots of jock straps.

How many sexual assaults did Gym Jordan cover up?

If there was ever a man that needed repeated punches to the face, it's that Matt Gaetz. I'm not violent but I would love to take a swing at him (and NOT in ANY WAY sexual).

All these sell-out, traitorous weasels are detestable. They are loyal to the cult of tRump. They don’t care about the truth. They only care about keeping the Orange Menace being propped up.

Despicable.

I wonder what they'll do when Drumpf turns on them. And you know he will.

[quote]Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger on CNN on Gordon Sondland's blocked testimony: "Typically, any time I think somebody from the administration is called in front of a committee, they should come testify. And especially on something like this."

Oh good, more subpoenas! That’ll show them. Puh-leeease.....

Matt Gaetz was fucking his college roommate who then suspiciously “committed suicide.”

It was a homicide and was being investigated as such until daddy intervened and suddenly it became a suicide...daddy made it disappear just like all those DUIs

I was about to say, didn't little drunken Matty have a bunch of DUIs as well?

[quote]New: Senate Intel Committee report on Russia's use of social media.

Key finding: "The IRA sought to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton's chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin."

^Forgot to add that I'm shocked! Absolutely shocked!

only the best people

Is Senator Collins concerned now?

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