Marlene Dietrich

A friend of mine (who died last month) saw her fall off the stage.

Tres pathétique.

Evewyting below da vaist was kaput.

Was Marlena an alcoholic?

Marlene could be desperate.

Noel's Coward's diaries from 1958 and 59 are full of Marlene bawling her eyes out because that pseudo-gypsy, Eurasian pig Yul Brynner spat at her but didn't spray his man-juice over her.

Sie war von Kopf bis Fuß auf Liebe eingestellt

I read somewhere that she had an lp made of a compilation of the applause at her stage shows, and would play this at dinner parties.

How did she die? Circumstances, overall quality of life, cause...?

She was 77 and looked like a wax-work dummy strapped into a chair in an awful film I refused to see called "Schöner Gigolo, armer Gigolo" in 1978.

She was 83, bed-ridden and refused to be photographed in Max Schell's sad interview film called "Marlene" in 1984.

She was a corpse in 1992.

In 1956, when Marlene was making a fool of herself over her much younger lover Yul Brynner, her dear friend Noel Coward wrote her a wonderful letter. It reads, in part:

[quote]It is really beneath your dignity, not your dignity as a famous artist and a glamourous star, but your dignity as a human, only too human, being. Curly is attractive, beguiling, tender and fascinating, but he is not the only man in the world who merits those delightful adjectives...Do please try to work out for yourself a little personal philosophy and DO NOT, repeat DO NOT be so bloody vulnerable. To hell with God damned "L'Amour." It always causes far more trouble than it is worth. Don't run after it. Don't court it. Keep it waiting off stage until you're good and ready for it and even then treat it with the suspicious disdain that it deserves...

[quote]I am sick to death of you waiting about in empty houses and apartments with your ears strained for the telephone to ring. Snap out of it, girl! A very brilliant writer once said (could it have been me?) "Life is for the living." Well that is all it is for, and living DOES NOT consist of staring in at other people's windows and waiting for crumbs to be thrown to you. You've carried on this hole in corner, overcharged, romantic, unrealistic nonsense long enough.

Apparently involved with a woman...someone I know but dare not ask

R1, Sorry about your friend.

Daammmmnnnnnn you!

In OP’s pic, Dietrich looks like she’s giving perfect coaching on the nuances of being a believable drag queen.

the last great monster / icon that we had....truly fab and omg ccan u imagine hoe interesting she musta been to have had noel fukiin coward as a best buddy????

Could go on forever about this one. Saw her live four times in the 70's. The show never changed by a single note or hand gesture. Pink light everywhere. She couldn't sing a note, (never could really) Walked precariously in the high heels and tight gowns and yet, by the end of the performance you bought the illusion. Wish I could have seen her during the 60's when she still looked wonderful. Have to say I love her version of 'Just a Gigolo'. The last recording she ever made. We've done the end on here before. When she could no longer do Marlene, she shut the door, went to bed and never got up again.

Wasn't she, like, an awful human being, at least to her daughter?

^ No one has read the daughter's memoirs. I bet Marlene would have sued her own daughter if there was any dirt.

Silly people like to pretend Marlene was a lesbian but she dropped all her pretence for Jean-Gabin-dick and Yul Brynner-dick.

Noel said she was never happy unless she was scrubbing the Haus.

she was bi, like many, and yes treated her daughter like a servant.

77.

Saw her in concert twice in the late ‘60s - brilliant!! Met her after the show and chatted one-on-one for 15 minutes. A kind and lovely lady, and a memory I treasure!

Interviewed in 1971 . . .

R19 That clip shows the problem she had throughout her career.

She had thin lips so she'd draw her lipstick into a ridiculously fake Cupid's bow way above her natural lip line.

R21 Her lipstick in that second clip is even more extreme. I hope she was sitting down during it.

Wiki says she became "increasingly dependent on painkillers and alcohol" due to "poor circulation in her legs". She fell on stage in "Maryland in 1973 necessitating skin grafts to allow the wound to heal". She fractured her right leg in August 1974. My friend saw her fall off the stage and break her thigh in Sydney in 1975.

[R19] give the lady a break! Look at the date of the picture. Whatever the date, that's how old she is. She's seventy fucking eight for fuck sake. What are your lips going to look like at 78! They all exaggerated their lips. It was Fashionable. Those photos are fucking 50 years old and more now, and they're still beautiful. Just look at some of the stupid young women walking around during the day now with their drag queen makeup and ugly thick stuck on eyelashes. How natural!

Ann Miller has some dirt on Marlene in her first book.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Leo Lerman was a longtime friend of Marlene's, and the book version of his journals, THE GRAND SURPRISE, has loads of dish on her and just about everyone else in New York theater/publishing circles in the 40s through the 70s.

Cunt!

Love her in Destry Rides Again.

Fabulous iconoclast. Brave woman. Ahead of her times. Apparently as a person, down to earth and loyal to her friends. I gather the Maria Riva (daughter) bio is very good. Been meaning to get my hands on it for years. Her antics throughout her life are among the best in the world of motion picture stars.

I've always greatly admired the way she bravely opposed the Nazis in her native country of Germany. Many famous German stars at the time (such as actress/director Leni Riefenstahl and Emil Jannings, her co-star in the Blue Angel Angel) collaborated with the Nazis, but she never did. The Nazis tried to buy her support with lucrative offers and film contracts but she flatly refused them. She remained in Hollywood, applying for U.S. citizenship in 1937.

Along with Billy Wilder and other German emigres, she created a fund to help Jews and dissidents escape from Germany. She sold war bonds and was said to have sold more than other star . She also toured tirelessly throughout the war to perform for the Allied troops. She insisted on remaining with the troops even when they were stationed in areas that were deemed dangerous for civilians.

At the end of the war, she was awarded the Medal of Freedom for her service.

She was quite a dame. I love her for her films (especially the early von Sternberg films), her fashion sense, and the way she became a gender-bending icon. But her service during the war was extremely courageous and perhaps the most important of her achievements.

The Maximillian Schell film is worth a watch. There is something both sad and ominous, slightly otherworldly, in never seeing her face throughout the film.

^ The film is sad and creepy; and Max is suave and sexy.

I admire Marlene for her Lutheran work ethic and for cajoling Billy Wilder to make 'Witness for the Prosecution'.

But I rank her as 'one rung below' Greta Gustafsson/Garbo.

Damn. 28 replies since I last logged in yesterday. You bitches have done me proud!

Haven’t read your replies yet but do keep them coming!

Great replies. Thanks!

How many valium and scotches did she have before that interview?

I know it's trite, but Falling in Love is my Dietrich favorite. There is so much nostalgia and a tinge of regret combined with don't-give-a-fuck bravado, I just adore it. I was made that way, I can't help it.

She was, in the final analysis, a Prussian officer's daughter. First, last, and always. That's the key to her personality.

I especially like her performing in excellent French (SHANGHAI EXPRESS and MARTIN ROUMAGNAC).

Amazing she lived as long as she did with the pills and booze. She had artherosclerosis in her legs, which began in the 1950s, and drank and took pills to ease the pain and cramping.

Her daughter's book is one of the best biographies I have ever read. It's not a 'Mommie Dearest' tell-all, it's like reading a novel.

R42 I’ll have to check this out.

“The Girls: Sappho goes to Hollywood”

Great book about the lesbian demimonde that existed in Hollywood from the 1910s through the 1950s. Covers Marlene Dietrich’s life in detail. A fun, juicy read.

Reportedly, Jimmy Stewart knocked her up during filming of "Destry Rides Again" and she sought an abortion.

R21, Garbo must have been a hermit. Dietrich said they never met, Bette Davis never met Garbo either.

Lazy......

R16 Aren't you, like, a ignorant boorish twat?

Dietrich was a great artist in several media, a pioneer, a patriot with a spine, loyal, and mostly a class act. She was capable of great sophistication, but was not pretentious, she was very intelligent and had the world on speed dial even in her old age. She was also earthy. And she could perform wonderfully in German French and English.

Et toi?

R48 I'm not sure what you mean by "a patriot with a spine".

A German patriot or an anti-German patriot?

Was the artery problem genetic?

Dietrich became an American citizen in 1939 and she was a patriot. Really a hero.

You, you lazy cunt, it would be so easy to just read a bio or the wiki about Dietrich rather than sharting your ignorance willy nilly whenever/wherever it leaks out

She liked her suds.....

Her daughter's memoir says it all, it is an excellent read and includes many wonderful photos. Nothing more needs to be said or written.  I've read memoirs about other people who knew Marlene only tangentially that corroborate the details in Maria Riva's memoir.

Strange how Marlene, who worked for six decades in show business has a lower profile in popular culture today than Greta Garbo who retired early in her career and Marilyn Monroe who burned out quickly.

Marlene appearing on Tallulah Bankhead’s radio show:

She was brilliant in Witness for the Prosecution. I always loved this scene. "Wanna kiss me, ducky?"

Spoiler alert, r57!

The film came out in 1957, R58, I think the time of tip toeing around spoilers for that flick is long expired.

R56 That audio was delightful. They both had very distinctive voices but it seems Marlene couldn't sustain long notes.

I wonder if they were referring to a particular 'Mr Claude' at around the one minute mark?

R57 There's a Billy wilder interview with Volker Schlondorff on Youtube where Wilder says Dietrich initiated that movie project, there's no way he would have done it without her pushing him.

So, is the consensus that she was terrible during her Vegas run?

She was no singer but had enormous stage presence and discipline . People went to see Dietrich rather than hear a Jesse Norman, she gave them a great show with plenty of glamour.

Her films with Josef Von Sternberg (I like to refer to him as being her Svengali) are absolutely incredible.

They were lovers for a long time and according to her daughter, Maria Riva, he was madly in love with Dietrich.

This photograph of them always makes me chuckle, such glamour!

My partner saw the last performance Marlene Dietrich ever gave in 1975 in Sydney. The following night she walked on stage, fell over and that was the end of the stage appearances.

Apparently the show was fantastic. She had been giving the same performance since the early 1950s.

My partner and his brother who attended the concert in 1975 waited at the stage door at the end of the concert for got a signed autographed photo which he still has. She stood on the running board of a Rolls-Royce and threw them out to the waiting fans.

She is enchanting. Thought I would watch a few minutes of the clip at R21 and ended up glued through the whole thing. I bet she was a fucking pisser. So beautiful.

Judy starts talking about Marlena at 3:14. The story about Marlena's record is hilarious.

This is the 70's recording of her act. She was paid a fortune to record this then refused for it to be released. She was right to do so. She knew It didn't have the atmosphere and illusion her show created when you saw it live.

French and saunders marlene

So did she ever sing or just talk through songs?

"I read somewhere that she had an lp made of a compilation of the applause at her stage shows, and would play this at dinner parties."

Judy make that up for her Jack Paar performance (R66). Judy could be an unabashed liar for amusement.

Maria Riva wrote that Marlene was "addicted" to full strength prescription cortisone - she ate the pills and rubbed the cream all over her body because it made her skin soft. Thus her later issues with soft bones and breaks.

R70 oh my god

Judy Garland was always a great guest to have on a talk show and her Marlene jokes and impersonations are many. This is another good one. Riva says they had an affair. Perhaps they were just friends.Marlene did fuck just about everybody.

R72, Judy fucked just about everybody too, everybody she could (not as successful as MD). And don't be alarmed, Judy slept with women too.

R73 Judy came off butch.

I find Marlene refreshing in her down to earth honesty often about herself and her work. She makes me smile and often lol. My favourite quote. When asked, " Marlene why did you sleep with so many?" Her reply. "Because they asked."

From Marlene Dietrich's ABC:

Iceland ("Should be called Greenland. See GREENLAND.")

Greenland ("Should be called Iceland. See ICELAND.")

She kept thin by only eating every 3 days.

R77 wtf? Is this true?

Shirley MacLaine apparently fasts every other day or something like that.

Shirley only fasts when they’re out of creme brûlée!

Marlene always covered her right ear area after the 1950s, we assume she had a bad facelift scar there.

something is clearly going in that photo from r57.

R80-it's a reference to make-up the character used to trick the prosecution. She pretended to be someone else to get her lover off a murder charge. That photo was part of the reveal. It's not a reference to her plastic surgery.

OK, Rose

Touch of Evil

R78, Susan Lucci hasn't eaten since 1987.

[quote] She also toured tirelessly throughout the war to perform for the Allied troops.

Some troops got a better performance than others.

General McAuliffe got a big page in Army history by telling the Germans NUTS as the acting commander of the U.S. 101st Airborne Division troops defending Bastogne, Belgium, during the Battle of the Bulge. He was temporarily in charge because division commander General Maxwell Taylor gave himself some unscheduled Christmas R&R to shack up in Paris with Marlene.

[quote] She kept thin by only eating every 3 days.

If you believe that, I have a large white obelisk to sell you in Washington DC.

R85 Is there ANY evidence for that anecdote?

The management of this theater suggests that for the greater entertainment of your friends who have not yet seen the picture you will not divulge to anyone the secret of the ending.

Oh my-look at those cheekbones, R87. They could cut diamonds!

R46, oh they met, and how they met!

R89 Lilli Peiser (aka Palmer) was another hard-headed German frau whose cheekbones could cut diamonds.

Dietrich loved fine gems, especially emeralds.

"Wasn't she, like, an awful human being, at least to her daughter?"

She was a monster, and not just to her daughter. She was pathologically narcissistic. She liked to put on an act that made her look like she cared about other people (she tirelessly entertained troops during WWII) but she never gave a damn about anyone but herself. Aside from that she was compulsively promiscuous, fucking anything that moved, male or female. She became an alcoholic, and possibly a drug addict, too. She kept up the illusion of youth for as long as she could and when she could hide her age no longer she retreated to her apartment in Paris and holed up there until her death, living in filthy circumstances, refusing to let her daughter keep her clean. Some grisly details: she would pee in a Limoges pitcher and poop in a casserole dish.

You can't deny that she had style, R93. I mean if you're going to piss in something, make it porcelain like Limoges. Kidding aside, that's pretty foul. Is that in the daughter's book everyone keeps referencing? I may have to read it.

She was a traitor to the German people, aising in horrendous murders and crimes against humanity.

Perhaps her guilt over this caused her to go insane in her final years.

aiding in

Poop in a casserole dish? How Ra-Sha-Sha! As my mother would say

" Is that in the daughter's book everyone keeps referencing? I may have to read it."

Yes, that's straight out of Maria Riva's biography of Dietrich. Riva dis not mince words when it came to her mother's behavior and habits.

Miss Maria was not a chip off the old block.

She looked like a farm girl.

It's amazin what weight loss and styling can do. Dietrich really transformed herself.

Marlene & Gumm.

r85, a German instructor told us that General McAuliffe's comment was something more vulgar than "nuts," but she didn't elaborate. I assume it was something like "go fuck yourself," and "nuts" was the cleaned-up version released to the public.

"She liked to put on an act that made her look like she cared about other people (she tirelessly entertained troops during WWII) but she never gave a damn about anyone but herself."

When donating time at the Hollywood Canteen, she was known to take any soldier who she fancied into a back room and let him fuck her.

Sorry I misremembered. I had my paratrooper generals confused. It was 82nd Airborne commander James Gavin.

Patton had his turn also.

Plus father and son Kennedy.

Dietrich met the American ambassador to London, Joseph Kennedy, father of John (who was then 21), Robert and Edward, while the family was on holiday in the south of France.

Years later when the sexually inexhaustible JFK was President he offered the then 60-year-old star one of his famous “quickies”. She accepted.

Her memory later was hazy. “I think he was even faster than his father.

He had an even busier schedule . They both kept their watches on.”

Keep feeding me, bitches. I’m loving it!

Sorry I misremembered. I had my paratrooper generals confused. It was 82nd Airborne commander James Gavin.

Patton had his turn also.

Plus father and son Kennedy.

Dietrich met the American ambassador to London, Joseph Kennedy, father of John (who was then 21), Robert and Edward, while the family was on holiday in the south of France.

Years later when the sexually inexhaustible JFK was President he offered the then 60-year-old star one of his famous “quickies”. She accepted.

Her memory later was hazy. “I think he was even faster than his father.

He had an even busier schedule . They both kept their watches on.”

[quote]She was, in the final analysis, a Prussian officer's daughter. First, last, and always. That's the key to her personality.

What does that mean, exactly?

Prussians are very disciplined and no-nonsense, R110. They're extremely hard-working, not emotional, fairly clinical and do not suffer fools gladly. They are not warm and fuzzy people. Those are the Bavarians.

And yet, Coward's diary suggests that Dietrich was a fool for Brynner (among others).

Marlene was a cock worshiper.

No sound unfortunately....

R112-I was trying elucidate what the above poster meant when he said she was a Prussian officer's daughter. I heard she made a fool of herself over Brynner.

My favorite storytime in Riva's memoir about her mother is the dressing down Dietrich gave a studio person who tried to strong-arm her into doing publicity: " In a low cut gown that showed plenty of leg"!!! Previously, no one dared approach her without Von Sternberg interrupting. But Von Sternberg and Dietrich were parting ways and suddenly Dietrich was approachable, or so it was assumed.

"MISS DIETRICH will wear what she knows to be suitable. MISS DIETRICH will be available for ten minutes and no more. You will end the interview politely on time.After this NOTHING will be arranged without MISS DIETRICHS' approval beforehand'. Now go. and have your lunch." Dietrich may have been a pass around and played whores all her life but she did not allow anyone to treat her like one. You do need that sense of worth to make it through this life, especially when you assume a role on the public stage. People want to degrade you and will use you until you can't be used anymore. Look at Marilyn and even Judy who were ground down to dust before their time.

She fucked JFK. Apparently the experience was a memorable one. Riva said that in a hotel Dietrich threw a pair of her semen stained panties in her husband's (Riva's husband) face and said "Here! Smell! It is him! He was wonderful!" or words to that effect. Riva's poor husband decamped to another hotel.

Get away....

She's pretty wonderful in The Lady is Willing.

Prussians are the real "German" Germans.

[quote] I gather the Maria Riva (daughter) bio is very good.

It is. It's a very honest account. Includes Marlene's lesbian affairs. And basically, Marlene was the same off screen as she her character was on screen.

Riva hated her mother. Many of us do.

Marlene and Rosie celebrating domestic violence in song....

More Marlene and Rosie....

Correction, many of us hate our mothers.

In Marlene's defense, she financially supported Maria and Maria's family until the end of her life. Maria had a townhouse on the UES, plus a Park Ave. apartment. Marlene also paid for her grandsons' private schooling, and the family's living expenses. Marlene also used her connections to set her grandsons up in the film business.

The notion that Marlene couldn't sing is silly. She had only 1.5 octaves at her best, but she knew how to carry a tune, was on key, great at phrasing, and wisely did not sustain notes. It wasn't just talking.

Too old to cut the mustard....

The only eating every 3 days story came from Shirley MacLaine who met Dietrich on Around the Word in 80 Days. Shirley told the story to Robert Osborne in her Private Screenings interview.

"Riva hated her mother. "

I don't think so. She told the truth about her, but she didn't hate her. She was always a concerned, dutiful daughter. Towards the end of Dietrich's life, when she took to her bed and lived like a neglected, forgotten invalid, Riva attempted to help her, but Dietrich WANTED to live like that. Riva figured she wanted to go out as a martyr, alone and unattended, even though she had a daughter who visited her regularly and tried to make her life better. She never cut herself off from her mother, no matter how badly she behaved, unlike Judy Garland, who cut her mother out of her life, refused to let her see her second grandchild and told anyone who would listen before and after her mother's death that her mother was a wicked, evil monster.

Maria confirmed her mom would go on bizarre liquid diets to lose weight quickly. R128, Marlene was cracking up there

In Dietrich's day, the "sleep cure" was common. I believe it was sedation for a number of days. The "excess" weight would fall off.

"Years later when the sexually inexhaustible JFK was President he offered the then 60-year-old star one of his famous “quickies”. She accepted."

No wonder she turned to women.

She probably didn't even feel JFK's tiny dick in her coochie, but acted up a storm.

R30 What do you mean "iconoclast"?

She came to the US because Paramount wanted a replica of Greta Garbo.

When that fad for exotica died she was desperate to cover her liabilities (tiny breasts, speech impediment) so she did cabaret and retired and insisted her corpse be buried in Berlin.

Du bist eine gemeine und unwissende Fotze R135.

r135 she's one of the most famous stars of her era. She also had a huge influence on fashion. She told Hitler to go to hell and worked tirelessly for the Allied war effort, refusing to stay in safe zones and was on the front lines in Germany. If she had been captured, god only knows what would've happened to her.

Dietrich only returned to Germany once after the war, in the early 60s. Many Germans still felt she was a traitor and she never returned.

As a diet aid Dietrich also drank gallons of epsom salts, in other words, salt water. Supposedly it flushes you out or something. I heard that Sandra Dee, who was an anorexic, would do the same thing.

Dietrich sold herself to Hollywood as "The New Garbo" and convinced everyone there that she was the newer, younger, foreign actress of the moment. In fact she was actually four years OLDER than Garbo, and was 29 when she made "The Blue Angel", the film that brought her to the attention of Hollywood. So she was thirty and rather... sturdy for an actress when she hit the American film industry, but she managed to sell herself as young and hot nonetheless.

The word "glamour" used to mean "illusion" or "magic used to befuddle" before it meant "beauty", and although I'm no fan of Dietrich, she was the epitome of glamour in its old sense.

Once Dietrich slimmed down after she got to Hollywood, she was quite striking. Here she is with Jean Harlow.

Dietrich delivered everything she promised. Also she had very little in common with Garbo, as an artist and a woman.

Another one of Dietrich and Jean Harlow....

R137, Actually, she did return.

When I say I am no fan of Dietrich, I mean as an actress. Once she settle into Hollywood and her partnership with Sternberg, she got so fucking glamorous onscreen that she no longer seemed human! I mean she showed potential in her early films, but as the thirties progressed she paid more and more attention to the camera angles and lighting, and less and less to her co-stars. She could be totally lifeless as a screen presence.

Of course her fellow narcissist Joan Crawford became just as inhuman with age and long-term stardom, but at least Crawford had some life in her. Crawford could take time away from adoring herself to bitch at the other character in her films, Dietrich seemed completely self-adoring.

I'd never thought of a resemblance to Lucille Ball before seeing those Harlow pics above.

I thoroughly disagree, r144; I can't imagine Garbo or later Crawford allowing themselves to appear like this in a film. Dietrich was fearless.

In addition to losing weight when she got to Hollywood, Dietrich allegedly had her back molars pulled out to give her more photogenic cheekbones.

Dig those shaved eyebrows at R142! That was the style thing and it looked so ridiculous, eyebrows shaved off and then drawn on, winging upward. Harlow and Dietrich were famous for those drawn on eyebrows.

Garbo and Dietrich were like peas in a pod.

R138, I hope your exaggerating. You can’t drink gallons of epsom salt. Even if it’s diluted in water. It’s a laxative.

I read that she ate an orange for breakfast, a salad for lunch, and steak for dinner.

I don't believe that JFK fucked Dietrich, 16 years his senior.

^ Neither do I. And I bet Marlene started up that rumour.

We've had a real mixed bag of responses to this long-dead performer— 'a patriot' versus 'an iconoclast'. But I declare that she specialised in playing harlots, vamps and women of easy virtue.

Dietrich was 62 when Kennedy died, he was 46. 62 in 1963 was old lady old, not like it is today. Even if it was Dietrich and not your average 62 year old, I highly doubt Kennedy fucked her. JFK could have had any woman in the world, why would he want an old lady? This is just another Marlene whopper. I wonder what Riva has to say about it?

Why did Ashton want Demi?

I'd fuck a 42 year old Demi Moore in 2005 over a 62 Marlene Dietrich in1963.

Some of you seem to think that JFK was picky.

Ich liebe dick.

Her daughter wrote a very vert interesting biography. I've learned so much about Marlene in it and also about what really happened behind the scene in Hollywood. She was using everyone. She's also was a drug addict. She was sincere only with Jean Gabin but when he realized she was a manipulative bitch he dumped her and married a Dietrich sosie. She was a terrible mother, terrible.

R137 Dietrich was living in Paris for years when died

She was a well-paid (as in Hollywood $$$/fame) accessory to her country's destruction and the massacre of millions of her countrymen. She must have been a truly horrible person.

I don't think anyone has mentioned how funny Marlene is in Stage Fright, particularly in her condescending attitude to Jane Wyman as her maid.

She was a brusque (albeit fashionable) German who ate a lot of pussy.

What kind of drugs was she addicted to? Pills? Can’t wait to read her daughter’s book.

Everyone was on something in the 50s. Your doctor prescribed these powerful and highly addictive narcotics. Dietrich as she aged and became more addicted, helped the pills along with alcohol.

R150-that was probably the point. The laxative would a been a fast way to lose weight.

"JFK could have had any woman in the world, why would he want an old lady?"

JFK would fuck anything with a pulse. In most cases he's just unzip, there was no kissing, fondling or romantic words. Which is why he most certainly would fuck Dietrich, and why most women said he was a lousy lay.

r160 I know Dietrich lived in Paris for years as a recluse at the end of her life. She only returned to Germany once, in the early 60s. She lived in Paris from the late 70s until her death in '92.

" I hope your exaggerating. You can’t drink gallons of epsom salt. Even if it’s diluted in water. It’s a laxative."

According to her daughter she did drink large amounts of epsom salts. She said "gallons" but I don't she meant she'd drink gallons at one time. I suppose it was kind of like drinking the prep you have to drink before getting a colostomy. It was a weight loss fad then. Cleaning yourself out supposedly made you lose weight fast. Marilyn Monroe did something similar. In her case she'd take "colonics", in other words, enemas. Supposedly she died due to a chloral hydrate enema. But that's another story.

Laxatives were a way to lose weight, as well as pills. You have to remember the context of the times. Nobody worked out or knew anything about carbs, fat etc. There was a pill for everything, and weight loss meant starving yourself and taking pills. If you were tired you took a pill to give you energy, if you couldn't sleep there was a pill for that. Dietrich was typical of her era, what she did wasn't at all unusual for the times. Even smoking was encouraged as a way to lose weight!

[quote] I don't think anyone has mentioned how funny Marlene is in Stage Fright,

She was great in that, R162. And sang one of her best songs.

She didn't leave her Paris apartment for the last 13 years of her life. 13 years!

R170, in my grandmother's day, 1950s-60s, she played sports and occasionally drank Metrocal for lunch to stay in shape. Absolutely no pills. My mother and her friends did the same thing. EVERYONE knew about carbs and starch and how they could pack on unwanted pounds for eons. What you read in books does not always represent the truth. It is true that many starved themselves to lose weight because they didn't want to make the effort to exercise or didn't have access to tennis and other sports.

MDs pushed pills when they became available (Milltown, Seconal, Bennies), but most people did not exist on them. In fact, these drugs weren't around until the 1940s, well into Dietrich's day. So her addictions began when she was 40+.

You cunts are truly deep-dicking me with facts and bitchery.

Keep it comin’!

- op (can’t even add a sig in his own thread now)

r173 pills were very prevalent in Dietrich's day. Diet pills were a huge thing. Just because your grandmother didn't take them didn't mean they weren't taken by many others back then.

I'm not arguing with you, R175, I am simply pointing out a few things that you may not have read about. Bennies (Benzedrine) are "diet pills" btw. The part about carbs and starch is something you should write down in your book.

Diet pills have been around since 1890's.

Dietrich had an iron constitution, which is why she lasted (90 years) as long as she did, despite alcoholism and poor health habits and popping a variety of pills. She'd take advice from quacks who would give her injections of God knows what, telling her it was the secret to eternal youth. She was aging like human beings do, but tried to hide it religiously with wigs (her hair was thinning), "instant" face lifts (the use of prongs that pulled back the skin at the hairline) and those specially made dresses that encased her aging flesh like a suit of armor. When it was no longer possible to hide the fact that she was old she retreated to her apartment in Paris and confined herself to bed. Another example of her physical resilience; despite all the years of being bedridden (it was her choice to be that way; she was capable of walking) she never developed bedsores. Maria Riva said that all the years in bed had given her nothing more than "itchy skin."

I don't doubt for a second that JFK fucked Marlene. When he was a young man in the '30s and early '40s she was one of THE premier sex symbols. It was his chance to live out a fantasy he'd had for years.

First of all Mary OP it is NOT Hollywood....it is the Valley, and one of the worst parts of it.

Sort of like comparing Manhattan to Tijuana.

She stayed in bed in her last years because she drank around the clock so by being in bed, she wouldn't fall and injure herself as she had done many times before. She drank mainly to ease the pain of the cramping in her legs from the atherosclerosis. That's why she quit smoking in the 1960s. She didn't really want to quit, but the cramps were becoming unbearable and her doctors were screaming at her to stop or she could face amputation. It been mentioned by those who worked with her during her concert tours that after Dietrich quit smoking she became absolutely odious to be around. It really took a toll on her mentally.

No, "mother's little helper" pills weren't that common among ordinary people, but they were VERY common in Hollywood. Al the studios had the local Dr. Feelgoods on call, ready to give performers something to give them enough energy for another few hours of shooting, something else to help them sleep a bit when they got home, and a nice bottle of "dolls" to help them lose that stubborn ten pounds that didn't photograph well.

I can't believe there isn't anyone on this thread who doesn't know that!

Wasn't Maria Riva's book rather homophobic? It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember being very put off by that. It made me question everything else she had to say.

R182, everyone here thinks Hollywood was reality.

She was a favorite of my dad who saw her perform in Europe during WWII with the USO. She talked with the soldiers before and after, had photos taken with them, and ate with them. He used to say she was like a real person -- except she was Marlene Dietrich.

r183 Dietrich tried to force Maria into a lesbian relationship with a woman who worked for Marlene. This woman sexually abused Maria. This is probably a source of the homophobia.

[quote] She didn't leave her Paris apartment for the last 13 years of her life. 13 years!

Why not,. By then she had already been everywhere and done everybody.

She didn't leave her apartment for 13 years because she wanted NO ONE to see her the way she was: old. Despite her refusing to be filmed, Maximilian Schell did a documentary on her, using only silhouettes of her and old film clips, and the sound of her voice. It turned out quite well and won film awards. One review said "the true originality of the movie is the way it pursues the clash of temperament between interviewer and star. . . . he draws her out, taunting her into a fascinating display of egotism, lying and contentiousness."

DIdn't some nurse sexually assault Maria and Marlene chose to look the other way?

I can't blame Maria for her disdain for her mother if that is true.

Never understood why such a self confident lady needed the boys in the backroom to choose her drink for her

In Miss Schell's documentary Marlene's Paris apartment is implied/simulated to be a grand spectacular 19th century high-ceiling showplace..

What a shock to see what it really was, from the photos shown after her death.

Just a very average middle class low-ceiling small apartment.

No wonder she refused to allow it to be photographed for the documentary.

R188, I'll bet there are more than a few DLers who haven't left their apartments in 13 years.

R192, LOL! I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, but my eye caught yours because I haven't left my apartment in nearly two years, since I was let go from my job because of my medical condition (I have lactose intolerance and diverticulatis which was diagnosed by my upstairs neighbor who is a male nurse and gay). Though I do like to leave my aparmtment some times to go to the Starbucks and the Subways (and I always wind up in the bathrooms, there! LOL!) but still I like to tell my ex when I call him that I am housebound and it's ALL HIS FAULT!!! LOL!!

In Maria's book, she mentioned living with a gay man in San Francisco the 1940s, at the lowest point in her emotional breakdown. And she wrote quite sympathetically about him. She also suggested that Dietrich tried to introduce one of Maria's teenage sons into gay social circles in Paris, and it infuriated her. However, I believe one of her sons is, in fact, gay, so I am not sure that her alleged homophobia is real..

Marlene and Joan.

Dietrich trashed JC and was mostly right

Didn't she have a sewing circle thing with Claudette Colbert?

She had an affair with Claudette Colbert. But then she fucked anybody and everybody who wanted to fuck her. One person who didn't get in bed with her was John Wayne. According to Riva, his explanation was that he didn't want to be part of "a stable." That is, he didn't want to be just another one of those people who was fucking Marlene Dietrich.

She also fucked Hattie McDaniel. McDaniel was passed around by the spoilt white bitches Dietrich, Hepburn & Bankhead.

R198, Didn't Duke admit to Barbara Walters in one of his last interviews that he did have a fling with Dietrich?

There's no evidence Dietrich had an affair with Claudette Colbert (or Hattie McDaniel for that matter). Riva doesn't mention that in her book, though she's open about Dietrich's many other dalliances with the ladies.

The Colbert rumor is bullshit Kenneth Anger cooked up in Hollywood Babylon. He seems to have made it up wholecloth out of some publicity photos Dietrich and Colbert took together.

The podcast You Must Remember This did a good episode on the Colbert/Dietrich rumor (the episode is linked below). It was part of their Fact-Checking Hollywood Babylon series.

Here's another great You Must Remember This episode about Dietrich. This one focuses on her services to the Allies during the war.

Marlene and Claudette. Who could have possibly believed the rumors!

"McDaniel was passed around by the spoilt white bitches Dietrich, Hepburn & Bankhead."

That's pretty damn funny. Hepburn and Dietrich never laid a finger on humongous Hattie. But Tallulah Bankhead may well have sampled Hattie's honey pot. She was wildly promiscuous, a druggie and an out of control drunk. She was into dark meat. She had an affair with Billie Holiday and her affection for Holiday was so blatant that Holiday almost got thrown out of a venue where she was performing due to "Bankie's" PDAs. A fellow musician said this after seeing Bankie lavishing attention on Billie: "the bitch is all over her!"

R205, everyone knows Tallulah Bankhead compulsively chased black women. She went after Lena Horne too and got rejected...Lena did not trash her in her biography. Perhaps because Tallu had been one of Billie Holiday's best *friends*.

R195 You made my night. I simply canNOT with that photo...

- The Lange Troll

A clearer view.

Love that photo, R208.

Never in my life had I imagined that Joan Crawford could sit next to another woman, and look like the femme one!

Here you go, R209.

Joan and Dorothy Arzner.

Joan's hairstyle is very flattering in that photo. She was beautiful in the 30s, before the vodka and mental issues got the better of her looks.

Dorothy Arzner was openly lesbian in the 1930s! She didn't give a fuck.

No one sings it like Marlene.

R208 I want you in me deeply.

- TLT

R203, Maria wrote Dietrich attended Carole Lombard's theme party and didn't get the point , it was a work party, business. Dietrich kept the smile on for the camera.

R1 , please read R31, then STFU !!!

R1 , please read R31, then STFU !!!

Review of The Girls- Sappho Goes to Hollywood By Diana McLellan in the Baltimore Sun, 2000: McLellan uncovers startling indications that, through the machinations of Otto Katz, a Soviet spy to whom Dietrich was wed secretly in the early '20s, Dietrich "handed over enormous sums to help German Communists escape the Nazis and establish lives elsewhere." McLellan even goes so far as to speculate that through Katz, Stalin gave Dietrich some of the plundered Romanov family jewels -- emeralds the size of large marbles -- as a means of guaranteeing her cooperation.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

As other leading men in Hollywood were enlisting, the Duke dodged war duty for the ‘best lay he ever had,’ says the author of a new book, Marc Eliot, in American Titan: Searching for John Wayne, published tomorrow by Dey Street, an imprint of Harper Collins.

When Japan dropped the bombs on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, Wayne was 34 and had become a bankable star after making a few bombs of his own with his ‘on-screen lack of authority’ acting.

At the time of the call to military service, the married Wayne was wrapped in the arms of the lusty German film star, Marlene Dietrich after co-starring with her in the 1940 film, Seven Sinners, in which Wayne traded his chaps and cowboy boots for navy whites.

He had fallen madly in love with the actress whose insatiable desire for American boys and men spiked if she could also break up their marriages or humiliate them in some way.

‘When she came into Wayne’s life, she juicily sucked every last drop of resistance, loyalty, morality, and guilt out of him, and gave him a sexual and moral cleansing as efficiently done as if she were draining an infected sore’, writes the author.

Dietrich had star approval after the film ‘Destry Rides Again’ with Jimmy Stewart and met Wayne in her dressing room at Universal Studios.

If John Wayne dodged the draft, I wouldn't blame Marlene. He was a grown man, he could make up his own mind and decide how much of the principles he professed to believe in really mattered to him when they involved risk, he was perfectly capable of being a hypocrite if he wanted to.

Dietrich's hatred of the Nazis was well documented, as was her willingness to accept risk and inconvenience to do what she could to support the fight against him. So no, I wouldn't assume that if John Wayne dodged the draft, it was Dietrich's fault. Maybe he just decided he'd rather stay home and make lots of money and fuck gorgeous co-stars than fight.

To carry r220's thread further: given how passionate Dietrich was about opposing the Nazis and supporting the troops, wouldn't she have looked down on Wayne for avoiding service?

Also, wasn't she madly in love with Jean Gabin around this time? I recall reading in Steven Bach's biography how, in 1944 after D-Day, Marlene was entertaining troops and learned that Gabin's military division was nearby and she goes running through the crowd to find him, just like something in a movie.

Dietrich "opposed the Nazis" because she get bigger dollars in the US rather than her homeland.

R212 I like it, but I'm quite a bit more partial to the Amanda Lear version from 1978.

"Dietrich "opposed the Nazis" because she get bigger dollars in the US rather than her homeland. "

Well she did spend a good chunk of the war entertaining troops for free, and bunking in army camps, instead of making big bucks in Hollywood and living in a mansion.

Marlene, Marlene....

Thanks r22, tou hit the nail on the head.

She went on the payroll of the satanist usury bankers and their allies the MIC, who control all media in the USA, they paid far better than she ever made in germany, she betrayed her country and her people to massacre and destruction in return for money and fame. No wonder she died an insane drunk and pill addict. Guilt/karma does strange things.

Love this thread! Thanks so much OP.

It's weird, but it often seems that the most philanthropic people are also the most narcissistic. Marlene, Bill Gates, Bethenny Frankel...

I suppose it makes sense when you think about it. Narcissists are obsessed with what people think of them, and what better way to be sure of positive press than very publicly and splashily helping those less fortunate than you? It reaffirms your superiority and keeps people talking about you.

R228, you forgot Sinatra, Elvis, Jerry Lewis, Bob Hope...

R227 You’re welcome!

- op, aka The Lange Troll

I watch a lot of WWII documentaries on Youtube.

One of them (sorry, I can't remember which) contained some comments from a soldier who had been one of Marlene's escorts when she was touring in Europe, I believe soon after the war had ended.

After her schedule ended for the day, they returned to camp. Her escorts asked her if she would be interested in visited a POW camp of captured Germans and Marlene was interested in going.

The soldier, who clearly was enjoying the story, talked about seeing Marlene show up at the camp and having all the German soldiers and officers recognize her and their excitement. He particularly liked watching the German officers, clicking their heels as they met Dietrich.

Rather a nice story, I thought.

It sounds as if this was completely unofficial (the soldier seemed to say it was his and his partner's idea) so I suspect there was no publicity that this happened.

[quote] If John Wayne dodged the draft

Were they drafting married men who had 4 small children (aged 7 - 1) ? ( The kids were born in 1934, 1936, 1939, 1940).

Seems very doubtful.

Some more about the visit to the German POWs.

And a correction as to timing from my post above.

Not to defend John Wayne (can't stand him) but wasn't he a bit too old to be drafted in WWII? He was 34 when the US entered the war.

"Well she did spend a good chunk of the war entertaining troops for free, and bunking in army camps, instead of making big bucks in Hollywood and living in a mansion."

She liked for people to think she was a selfless, humanitarian person. But she sure as hell wasn't. She liked the adulation she got from doing things like entertaining the troops. And she entertained them in more ways than one! Maria Riva said she had a tent set up where she would receive soldiers for sexual trysts, and someone was assigned to stand outside and monitor the "traffic." Riva said that Dietrich believed she was doing the soldiers a favor by letting them fuck her; they would always have warm, wartime memories of their lovemaking sessions with the movie star Marlene Dietrich.

Or she was providing an inspiration for the soldiers who might be dead soon.

I’m starting to think Maria Riva made up half the shit in that book. Are we sure she wasn’t just an ugly duckling filled with jealousy toward her gorgeous mother?

That sound very plausible, R237

"Maria Riva said she had a tent set up where she would receive soldiers for sexual trysts, and someone was assigned to stand outside and monitor the "traffic.""

Man, she lived the Datalounge dream!

Marlene was married for 50 years. Many are unaware of her husband.

Maria's version of the Dietrich myth is confirmed by other memoirs written about other people who mention Dietrich only in passing

Dietrich was such a liar. Drunk, and encased in one of those tight fitting dresses that rendered her practically immobile, she wobbled and fell off a stage. She claimed that she extended her hand to the orchestra conductor, he grabbed it, and pulled her off the stage. The poor man came to Maria and begged her to believe him; he had NOT pulled her off the stage: "I would never hurt her!" Maria assured him that people with knowledge of Dietrich would know what really happened and if there were those gullible enough to believe her, well, it was best to just shrug it off. Dietrich was Dietrich.

I wonder what she and Danny Thomas got up to behind closed doors.

You're funny, R237. And very stupid. Tra!

That might be funny, R243, if the man in that pic was Danny Thomas.

"they would always have warm, wartime memories of their lovemaking sessions with the movie star Marlene Dietrich."

Kind of creepy and disgusting to me...

Sian Phillips played Dietrich in a stage play. Did anyone see it?

"Kind of creepy and disgusting to me..."

Well, Dietrich thought differently. She thought she was doing the soldiers she fucked a favor. And that they would cherish the memory of fucking her for the rest of their lives.

Tangent (somewhat): So, I fell down a little rabbit hole, a brisk and pleasant trip...

Michael Cristofer, screenplay writer for the upcoming Netflix and Ryan Murphy produced Dietrich biopic, is also the director of “Gia” - a film I actually love - and played the millionaire witch-hunter Jessica Lange kills with an axe in ”American Horror Story: Coven”. Such interesting connections!

Apparently, Cristofer’s script is excellent, chronicling the end of Dietrich’s Vegas run and her final days. I’d love to get my hand on a copy...

I didn't know there's going to be a movie.

[quote] chronicling the end of Dietrich’s Vegas run and her final days.

Like "Judy"? Is this the new trend, films of retro star's last days? They stole that idea from Datalounge.

r245=fish

R251 = R243 who doesn't know what Danny Thomas looks like

No, R252, that's Amos Kairouz.

People who adopt the Thomas family heritage without permission are THIEVES!

I had a 3 year relationship which included good sex. I was 53 and he was 28 when it started. It happens!

If they are allowed to use quotes from her daugthers book, this can be fun:

on Cooco Chanel ( "The little black suit woman") What a fake that woman was! Did one cut,repeated it a thousand times and was called a great designer. She was a decorater-not a designer!

Bette Davis: ...that one with the pop eyes and the frizzy hair. Why must they be so ugly?

Joan Craford: Did you see what Adrian poured on Craford? The wole thing nothing but bugle beads.Wonderfull.But on her with THOSE hips it just looks vulgar.

Ziegfeld Follies: Those girls of his are pretty!But much too tall for women- MUST be men!

Greta Garbo: When she learned that Garbo,had kidney disease, she remarked, "That suits her. That goes with her character, smelly pee.".

On Meryl Streep:

R255, that's hilarious! I guess Marlene was more or less playing herself as the bitchy chanteuse in [italic]A Foreign Affair[/italic], then.

She could have written the dialouge herself:

Erika von Schluetow : [Referring to Miss Frost] I see you do not believe in lipstick. And what a curious way to to do your hair or rather not to do it.

Captain John Pringle : Now, wait a minute! Do you know who you're talking to?

Erika von Schluetow : An American woman. And I'm a little disappointed, to tell you the truth. We apparently have a false idea about the chic American woman. Oh, I suppose that's publicity in Hollywood. Perhaps if you change the line of those eyebrows juust a little....Bye! ------------------ Nice dress but aren´t you wearing it backwards?

R243, Danny claimed in his autobiography that Dietrich hit on him but he turned her down, citing his being married.

Burt Bacharach claimed in his autobiography that Dietrich hit on him, but he also turned her down.

Dietrich was furious when he married Angie Dickinson. Her first words to him after their wedding were "You married that cunt?".

August 1938, the Riviera: Joseph P. Kennedy meets Marlene Dietrich.

The exclusivity of the Hôtel du Cap assured visitors that they were all members of rarefied society, and so the Kennedys quickly found themselves mingling with select other guests, including the ménage of Marlene Dietrich. A high-profile beauty always turned Joe’s head, and Marlene was no exception. As she later recalled, “He was old then already, but sweet,” and when he started “following me around,” they began an affair

When Dietrich met Kennedy, in the summer of 1938, she was 37 years old and still gorgeous. Her career, however, was at a low ebb. The year before, she had joined Katharine Hepburn and Greta Garbo in being declared “box office poison” by an American theater owners’ organization. Paramount let her go, and while she received a nice severance, she didn’t know if she would work again. Still, she refused to return to Berlin while Hitler was in power—she loathed the Nazis—and flatly turned down his offer to become the leading lady of U.F.A., the German film studio. Instead, she ultimately exiled herself to the South of France with her extended family: Maria, her now 13-year-old daughter; Rudi and Tami; and Marlene’s latest lover, the renowned author of All Quiet on the Western Front, Erich Maria Remarque. If her style of group travel bothered others, it didn’t concern her. More eyebrows had to be raised when Sternberg, a former lover, joined their group at the du Cap while Remarque busied himself with writing the novel that would become Arch of Triumph.......

......when the older Kennedy children joined their parents at the famous society hostess Elsa Maxwell’s summer ball ...... Jack jr- (21) would always remember that evening, He danced with Marlene to “Begin the Beguine” and she was “holding me so tight and then she slipped her hand down my trousers.” Years later, recounting the story to Frank Sinatra’s valet, George Jacobs (who described the scene in his memoir), Jack wondered if his father had put Marlene up to it, but grinned when he remembered her “terrific perfume.”

When her daughter asked her later in life why she had had so many sexual partners, Marlene responded with a shrug and said, “They asked.” She clearly thrived on pleasing her partners and didn’t believe in condoms, finding men “so grateful when you tell them they don’t have to wear it.” Once she discovered diaphragms, she called them “the greatest invention since Pan-Cake makeup.” Until then, she had sworn by her secret weapon against pregnancy: douching with ice-cold water and wine vinegar, which she carried with her by the case everywhere she went. (Decades later another of her co-stars and grand amours, Douglas Fairbanks Jr., warmly recalled their “lovely liaison,” adding, “You know, sometimes when I am in a restaurant and a waiter walks by with a salad vinaigrette, I’ll find myself thinking fond thoughts of Marlene.”)

...and there was wealthy lesbian Joe' Carstairs adde to the circle

Was she more into women or men?

R248 Jessica Lange is supposed to play her in the film. However, it's been in development for a while and Lange has mentioned it a few times but it has yet to go into production. A decent film about Dietrich will inevitably be made at some point.

Dietrich would be very hard to cast

#NEVER

God, this woman was a fascinating specimen.

Nobody forced anything on me ever.

MD

Love how she barely looks at the fool and then kills him with logic.

Daahrling! Whatever happened to that peculiar figure of yours?

...and many more gems.

Maria Riva gives detailed recollections of conversations (with full quotes) that took place when she was a child. She quotes her mother for 600 pages, and yet never ever mentions the never ending financial support she received from her mother her entire life, for herself and her family, including education and a paid NY appartment. NO mention of Marlene's lifelong financial generosity.

Riva was a textbook ingrate. She complains endlessly about how narcissistic and cruel her mother was. Walk away, then ? Or is the money too good ? I can't have any respect for such people.

Money doesn't buy everything, R267. I gather you don't have any.

[quote]R55 Strange how Marlene, who worked for six decades in show business has a lower profile in popular culture today than Greta Garbo who retired early in her career and Marilyn Monroe who burned out quickly.

Her movies are not very good for the most part, aside from visually. THE BLUE ANGEL is the exception - but it’s too depressing for most people to embrace.

And she really wasn’t an “actress,” per say. More a style icon who made movies.

r267 My parents thought paying bills was parenting. Yes, it is a good parent who pays for their children's necessities but that's all my parents thought parenting was, nothing else. There was always food on the table and clothes on my back and a roof over my head, but never any guidance or love or support, no advice. My siblings and I were brought up with every material comfort known to man in a negative environment by emotionally distant parents who really never should have had children. We all conclude we'd rather have been poor and had love and affection than be spoilt with possessions and ignored and abused. Having said that, Ms Riva shouldn't bitch about her mother if she accepted money from her in adulthood.