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Impeachment is just going to make Trump more likely to be elected

I understand why she did it. And in a normal world it would be more than justified.

But the end result in the Senate is a foregone conclusion. As of now there is little public support for it - and with the polarization at all-time highs it will serve mainly to rally the troops around the sociopath we call president.

He will go into the next election claiming vindication and victory.

His chances for re-election just went up measurably.

But be comforted by your righteous indignation and your fealty to the rule of law.

"But, for all the apparent inevitability of Pelosi’s announcement, it still represents a gamble with the very highest stakes. Until now, she and her allies have argued that a number of conditions would need to be met for the launch of an impeachment inquiry. First, there would have to be an easy-to-understand set of facts indicating that Trump had carried out impeachable offenses. Second, there would need to be broad support in the country for impeachment. And, third, there would have to be some prospect of gaining at least some Republican support in the Senate, which would ultimately issue a verdict on the President.

At most, one of these conditions has been met—the first one."

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by Anonymousreply 86September 27, 2019 6:30 AM

True. But it is necessary to slime Trump and those associated with him. In the 90's, If the Republicans hadn't done the same to President Clinton, Hillary would've won. These sort of things stick.

by Anonymousreply 1September 25, 2019 11:24 AM

I am not convinced that this helps his reelection. But I also don't think it will result in him being impeached.

by Anonymousreply 2September 25, 2019 11:28 AM

Don't forget when impeachment begins the democratic base is energized. More so than Trumpy's base. He's going to look more like a chewed up old dog toy by the end of this

by Anonymousreply 3September 25, 2019 11:29 AM

And it's important for history's sake to say we tried.

I remember reading about the McCarthy hearings and the blacklist and think, that will never happen again. But it has and it's much worse. The one clip of that senator saying "Have you no shame sir?" is the defining moment and we will need something like that so future people don't think we're morons.

by Anonymousreply 4September 25, 2019 11:38 AM

Has Nancy ever worked for a living, like in a real job NOT on the public payroll?

by Anonymousreply 5September 25, 2019 11:39 AM

About fucking time! He won’t be impeached but doing nothing looks terrible.

by Anonymousreply 6September 25, 2019 11:42 AM

R5, if you think that being the first female Speaker of the House in 230+ years didn't take tremendous hard work, then you're an idiot. And a misogynist.

by Anonymousreply 7September 25, 2019 11:44 AM

The fact that he called Nancy to try to negotiate “this Whistleblower thing” strongly suggests [italic] HE [/italic] thinks it’s going to affect re-election.

by Anonymousreply 8September 25, 2019 11:48 AM

He wasn't elected the first time, he lost the popular vote. Through the use of gerrymandering , voter suppression and fraud, he was installed in the wh to 'make the white house white again'.

Trump never worked a day in his life, his installation hasn't changed this.

by Anonymousreply 9September 25, 2019 11:49 AM

So the alternative is not to try him for crimes, because it might garner sympathy and the Democrats might lose the upcoming election?

Umm, maybe Democrats like OP need to be less like Republicans and think of country first over party.

by Anonymousreply 10September 25, 2019 11:49 AM

We can say the same thing about many, many Republican politicians, i.e. the dowager princess Lindsey Graham. With the exception of a short time in private law practice, Miss Graham has been sucking at the public teat her entire fucking life.

by Anonymousreply 11September 25, 2019 11:52 AM

I don't believe Pelosi would start the impeachment process unless she felt she finally had the goods on Jabba. She's not stupid. And clearly Jabba is scared shitless now which means he's going to fuck up even worse. The more frightened he gets the more insane he'll start acting and the more chances he'll start taking trying to get himself out of this mess he's made.

by Anonymousreply 12September 25, 2019 11:52 AM

There is HUGE public support for impeachment, and the process will make clear many more instances of his and his admin's illegal behavior as well as blind support of other Republicans. Daylight is the best disinfectant.

by Anonymousreply 13September 25, 2019 11:52 AM

How spineless do you have to be to refuse to do what's obviously the right thing in a situation of great importance because you're afraid of the potential consequences?

I'm asking OP, because he's in the position to provide the answer.

by Anonymousreply 14September 25, 2019 11:52 AM

R10 what if impeachment leads to him being re-elected and 4 more years of this insanity?

How exactly does the country benefit from that? Or the Democrats for that matter?

by Anonymousreply 15September 25, 2019 11:53 AM

R5 I know, it's so hard to search a politician's career history.

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by Anonymousreply 16September 25, 2019 11:53 AM

This is just because RBG is dying. The only problem is that RBG was nominated and appointed by Bill Clinton, who was at the time being impeached.

by Anonymousreply 17September 25, 2019 11:54 AM

When the potential consequences are worse than what we currently have R14.

What do you think 4 more years of a Trump not having to worry about re-election will be like?

by Anonymousreply 18September 25, 2019 11:55 AM

The op doesn't have a problem with Trump selling the US out to the highest bidder.

by Anonymousreply 19September 25, 2019 11:55 AM

Shut up, R13, if OP keeps saying there is no public support for impeachments he can make it true.

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by Anonymousreply 20September 25, 2019 11:57 AM

R17 Everyone's dying what's your point?

Not everyone thinks like you, or is driving by the same shit your are.

It's always good to remember that when on the Internet, komrade.

by Anonymousreply 21September 25, 2019 11:59 AM

OP is 100% correct. Which makes you wonder who is behind the impeachment push.

by Anonymousreply 22September 25, 2019 12:03 PM

We should not discount the impact this will have on Trump's 73-year-old drug-addled failing mental facilities. Impeachment hearings will play havoc on his ego, as narcissists don't take kindly to being held accountable.

by Anonymousreply 23September 25, 2019 12:03 PM

This thread is proof that the Democratic Party is filled with cowards who can never stand up to the bully. Heck even when Obama and the democrats were in charge they still did the republicans bidding. Bipartisanship was the excuse back then.

by Anonymousreply 24September 25, 2019 12:06 PM

With the inquiry, Pelosi is counting on the trickle of bad news to continue churning out for a year. I'm time for the 2020 election. White suburban woman (and blacks) need to get sick of hearing the bs and vote him out.

by Anonymousreply 25September 25, 2019 12:08 PM

Hillary may get the last laugh after all.

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by Anonymousreply 26September 25, 2019 12:12 PM

R22 You're right!

We are so mistaken in thinking that Trump is continuing his criminal career as President.

I'm going to shut up and buy me some "MADE America Great Again",* Trumpaphenalia, to wear at his next inaugural. Hope I can get tickets, it was so crowded last time.

*Slogan only, products not actually made in America.

by Anonymousreply 27September 25, 2019 12:13 PM

R24 I think this thread is more the product of Republican Party proponents trying to sew discord within the Democratic Party and possibly sway democrats who are more likely to play dead when being attacked by a wild animal.

by Anonymousreply 28September 25, 2019 12:15 PM

Err, s/sow/sew/g , re: R28

Hey Muriel, if you add the ability to edit posts,, I'll pay for a subscription.

by Anonymousreply 29September 25, 2019 12:19 PM

Nancy knows what she's doing. She wouldn't be going forward if she didn't think she could force him out. At some point the Senate Republicans will either have to abandon him or be complicit.

by Anonymousreply 30September 25, 2019 12:21 PM

And what is the price of complity R30?

Because as of yet, I don't see them paying any price at all.

by Anonymousreply 31September 25, 2019 12:24 PM

r7 = on the public payroll herself?

by Anonymousreply 32September 25, 2019 12:27 PM

No, it won't.

by Anonymousreply 33September 25, 2019 12:29 PM

Look at all the Macedonian bot farms so busy!

by Anonymousreply 34September 25, 2019 12:29 PM

R32 = on Putin's payroll?

Wait, let me change that question mark to an exclamation point.

by Anonymousreply 35September 25, 2019 12:32 PM

[quote]But be comforted by your righteous indignation and your fealty to the rule of law.

You're a tiresome scold OP.

by Anonymousreply 36September 25, 2019 12:32 PM

R32 I don't understand your comment:

Because you REALLY want to emphasize that Nancy Pelosi is a career politician, you're going to start call her supporters career politicians?

Name calling is childish and immature.

Is that you, Mr. President?

by Anonymousreply 37September 25, 2019 12:33 PM

All across the internet, the people who spent their days screaming about Pelosi being worse than Hitler are LIVID that she started an official impeachment inquiry, it's really gotten their girdles in a twist.

by Anonymousreply 38September 25, 2019 12:34 PM

R32 = on the Koch family's payroll. R32's last assignment was to lick Charles Koch's dirty ass right and make it spotlessly clean righter after Koch kicked the bucket.

by Anonymousreply 39September 25, 2019 12:38 PM

Don't let this be another painful letdown...AGAIN! I pray the whistleblower stuff, as a whole, is dramatic and damaging. Whatever those scumbags release today (the "transcript") is going to be a whole bunch of nuttin'. My only hope is there is juicier meat that nobody knows about. Better yet, I hope the juicy stuff is what Pelosi & Co. already know about and why the Trump Takedown officially started yesterday in dramatic fashion.

by Anonymousreply 40September 25, 2019 12:41 PM

[quote] Don't let this be another painful letdown...AGAIN!

It already is.

by Anonymousreply 41September 25, 2019 12:46 PM

[quote]His chances for re-election just went up measurably.

No. You simply do not have the data to make that claim.

by Anonymousreply 42September 25, 2019 12:48 PM

It's over. A pair of beaten up old shoes could be put next to Trump at this point and would win by a landslide. Fact.

Add impeachment to the never-ending list of humiliations the groper-in-chief has incurred. It's certainly not making the Democrats look bad. He lost by over three million votes in an election where MILLIONS of votes were suppressed and discounted. Relish these last moments of delusion, OP. The Republican party itself is in its death throes.

by Anonymousreply 43September 25, 2019 12:49 PM

Boris the troll thread?!?

by Anonymousreply 44September 25, 2019 1:01 PM

People keep citing the fact that Clinton's approval ratings went up when he was being impeached, but that was because people felt he was being unfairly targeted over what was a personal matter. This is different. And by the way, Al Gore lost the election largely because of Clinton's impeachment, and we got 8 years of Bush.

by Anonymousreply 45September 25, 2019 1:03 PM

We got 8 years of Bush because of hanging chads and the fucking Supreme Court.

by Anonymousreply 46September 25, 2019 1:07 PM

The only way he'll be re-elected is if the Russians interfere like the last time.

by Anonymousreply 47September 25, 2019 1:10 PM

Let's walk through this.

1. Trump has been repeatedly claiming "Presidential harassment!!!" for over a year. And has already made it clear that this is going to be one of the pillars of his campaign strategy in 2020. This was true before the impeachment announcement. If Democrats were going to be accused of this, anyway, there is less risk to going all in and exciting their own base in the process.

2. The polling numbers on impeachment have been highly volatile, with swings by as much as 20% in either direction depending on what's in the news. A Fox poll in June, for example, found 50% in favor and 48% opposed, so you cannot simply claim that the majority are opposed. The real answer here is it depends on when you ask and how you ask and about what you ask.

3. That last point is even more true today, as the public still has not had the chance to absorb the latest revelations. There will undoubtedly be polls in the coming weeks that reevaluate public support for impeachment. If those polls show strong opposition to impeachment, then the naysayers will then have some data to back up their claims.

4. People who insist that the Republican base will be energized are missing the fact that the impeachment process will also energize the Democratic base. All of the available data from the last few decades show the same thing: when Democrats are energized, when they turn out, they win. Both parties were enthusiastic and energized in 2018 and we still had a 7-point blue wave.

5. On that last point, the Democratic base has been growing increasingly restless: "We elected you, gave you ownership of the House, and yet nothing has been passed and Trump is still running wild and doing enormous damage! Why should we vote for you again in 2020?!" That's a bit of an exaggeration, of course, but not by much. People need to feel that the people they are voting for will fight for what they believe.

6. Formal impeachment hearings will give House Democrats a stronger case in the federal courts for the documents and witnesses they have been subpoenaing. Trump's attorneys have insisted that there has been "no legislative purpose" to these demands. Weak argument though that is, there was a very real fear that five Justices on the Supreme Court would accept it. They will have a much harder time making that case now.

7. Trump does not handle things like this well. He's been increasingly unhinged of late and that will no doubt continue and get worse. Expect the level of paranoia in the White House to increase and expect Trump to continue to incriminate himself and amp up the noise in his tweets and in his interactions with the media. That will not serve him well.

8. With the flood gates opened and White House stonewalling defeated, there will be new revelations coming to light. I don't expect any single "smoking gun" but rather more of a "death by a thousand cuts."

9. This process will take months rather than days or weeks. Depending on the progress through the courts, there is a very real chance that we won't even have a formal vote of impeachment before the 2020 election.

10. Finally, this is the right thing to do, from a legal standpoint, a Constitutional standpoint, and a "norms" standpoint. Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing, even if there is a political cost.

This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure that there are other arguments that can be made. The bottom line is that anyone predicting absolute certainty about 2020 right now is full of shit. You simply cannot make the case that, "His chances for re-election just went up measurably," anymore than I can make the case that "Pelosi just guaranteed a Trump defeat." Both statements are equally foolish.

by Anonymousreply 48September 25, 2019 1:18 PM

Personally, I now think that there is a strong case for impeachment, both politically and practically, and that it is time to pull that trigger. I also think that this will, absent dramatic new revelations, have not that much impact on the 2020 elections on either side, as the overwhelming majority of voters have already made up their minds about Trump. Those who want him gone will find further confirmation as the investigations continue; those who want him to remain will continue to cry "fake news." Even a Senate vote to acquit, on strict party lines (which I think is the most likely outcome) isn't likely to change the dynamics there much, if at all.

In short: go for it.

by Anonymousreply 49September 25, 2019 1:18 PM

R46 Thank you. Historic revisionism is rampant these days.

by Anonymousreply 50September 25, 2019 1:25 PM

R48, how's the weather in Moscow?

by Anonymousreply 51September 25, 2019 1:26 PM

I wouldn't know, R51. Here in the Pacific Northwest, it's chilly and rainy. Thank you for confirming that you have no answer for anything I wrote in that post. Of course, your response was expected, given that you also wrote:

[quote]Lots if [sic] Russian trolls on here pushing for impeachment.

and

[quote]Yes, this will ensure Trump is reelected....

Both of which, as I quite correctly noted, are pretty stupid statements to make, statements that you cannot support, which is why you had to go on the attack as you did. Pretty pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 52September 25, 2019 1:32 PM

Thanks for confirming that Russians are pushing this, R52.

by Anonymousreply 53September 25, 2019 1:34 PM

Thanks for randomly making up shit and showing that you're a rather ineffective troll, R53.

by Anonymousreply 54September 25, 2019 1:35 PM

I don't think Trump will be impeached but I think the idea of having to go through the process will force him to resign especially when the judiciary committee releases his tax returns. He will make a non prosecution deal with the judiciary but the state courts will go after him for his financial crimes.

by Anonymousreply 55September 25, 2019 1:43 PM

Whatever the true level of public support for impeachment is now it will surely grow as the investigation makes more and more of Trump's corruption known. That's what scares the shit out of Jabba. Frankly, I'm hoping he gets so emotionally unstable during the investigation that he either strokes out and drops dead, or decides to resign (ala Nixon) in return for no indictments after he's gone. In any case if he's kicked out and then indicted Pence will surely pardon him (ala Gerald Ford) for any and all crimes he's committed.

by Anonymousreply 56September 25, 2019 1:50 PM

Whatever op.

Impeach!

by Anonymousreply 57September 25, 2019 2:11 PM

So many of you fucking need to pay attention.

This is BAD.

Trump will resign by Thanksgiving.

by Anonymousreply 58September 25, 2019 2:13 PM

It's not so much which Senators will vote how, but which of them will see this, however it plays out, affecting their chances of reelection.

by Anonymousreply 59September 25, 2019 2:20 PM

The Empire strikes back......EVERYWHERE!

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by Anonymousreply 60September 25, 2019 2:43 PM

I thought the transcript (or notes to the transcript) that would be offered up would be cherry-picked or ambiguous but it is surprisingly damning.

by Anonymousreply 61September 25, 2019 2:47 PM

[quote] I am not convinced that this helps his reelection. But I also don't think it will result in him being impeached.

He may not be impeached but the process will produce so much negative, irrefutable evidence of treason and/or corruption that it could hurt his re-election.

by Anonymousreply 62September 25, 2019 3:29 PM

One thing leads to another.

by Anonymousreply 63September 25, 2019 3:35 PM

Clinton was impeached and Republicans won the following Presidential election. The impeachment hurt Democrats. It will hurt Trump.

by Anonymousreply 64September 25, 2019 3:39 PM

Yeah, we've already talked about that, R64. Republicans impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob, a ridiculous excuse and something that didn't matter and that the public clearly didn't give a shit about. Democrats are instituting an impeachment investigation, actually multiple impeachment investigations, about things that matter.

Your analogy simply doesn't work.

by Anonymousreply 65September 25, 2019 3:42 PM

Multiple? I thought it was only Ukraine. What else?

by Anonymousreply 66September 25, 2019 3:46 PM

I think you missed the point.

by Anonymousreply 67September 25, 2019 3:47 PM

a lot of gay guys today have gone all fascist if you don't agree with them. they try to silence anybody with differing opinions.

by Anonymousreply 68September 25, 2019 3:50 PM

R66, there are half a dozen investigations underway in multiple House committees. They are all coming in under the impeachment umbrella.

R68, nobody is being "silenced." You're welcome to post anything you like just as I'm free to laugh at what you post.

by Anonymousreply 69September 25, 2019 3:52 PM

R66, stop purposely acting. You’re not very convincing.

by Anonymousreply 70September 25, 2019 4:18 PM

I hope they can root around and turn over every rock surrounding Trump and his gang of thugs. They did it to Clinton (branching the investigation out from Whitewater), and finally got an "in" when they insisted he answer questions about the blowjob, and immediately jumped on the impeachment train. How great would it be to see Trump grilled!

by Anonymousreply 71September 25, 2019 4:38 PM

FAKE DEMOCRAT CONCERN TROLL ... AGAIN

by Anonymousreply 72September 25, 2019 6:54 PM
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by Anonymousreply 73September 25, 2019 6:54 PM

[quote] A majority of voters have already made up their minds about Trump.

True. The impeachment proceedings and resulting clarity of this admin's lack of ethics and their total greed will motivate voters to the polls. This will help Dems in the national and local elections.

by Anonymousreply 74September 25, 2019 7:04 PM

So AOC was right all along?

by Anonymousreply 75September 26, 2019 12:31 AM

R64, Clinton was re-elected after being impeached. Nearly everyone was like "WTF?"

by Anonymousreply 76September 26, 2019 2:07 AM

Umm, no he wasn’t, R76. He was already in the middle of his second term when he was impeached.

by Anonymousreply 77September 26, 2019 2:53 AM

Gore lost in 2000, remember? He distanced himself. It is damaging regardless of the Senate trial.

by Anonymousreply 78September 26, 2019 5:02 AM

Gore did not lose the election .

by Anonymousreply 79September 26, 2019 7:26 AM

Trump is no saint and we are not in love with him but he is ever so much better than the satanists in the WH from 1989 to 2016!

by Anonymousreply 80September 26, 2019 8:06 AM

Wasn't there a recent poll of likely voters that said 60% of them would absolutely not vote for Trump?

by Anonymousreply 81September 26, 2019 10:32 AM

That's 4 Presidents, R80.

by Anonymousreply 82September 26, 2019 1:23 PM

I don't know about recent, R81, but Monmouth did a poll earlier this year which found that.

[quote]A Monmouth University survey released Wednesday found that only 37 percent of voters believe Trump should be reelected, while 60 percent said they think it’s time to have someone new in the White House.

That's roughly in line with all of the polling on this, where 50 to 60 percent of those polled say that Trump should not be reelected.

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by Anonymousreply 83September 26, 2019 1:37 PM

I can see in the troubled faces of Deplorables today their dreams of homosexual death camps might go up in smoke.

Because isn't that why they voted for him? They didn't vote for him because he was a decent man (potty mouth); a fair man (dirty business dealings); a successful man (multiple bankruptcies); a faithful man (Stormy Daniels; Karen McDougall, etc.); an honest man (the Trump Tower meeting, which he knew all about); a competent man ("Rusher... if you're listening")...

They voted for him to be their pitbull against all the people they hate. I really don't think there can ever be another U.S. President as reprehensible as Donald Trump. So they are watching their chances fade.

by Anonymousreply 84September 26, 2019 2:14 PM

[quote]Clinton was re-elected after being impeached. Nearly everyone was like "WTF?"

He was not! Like r77 said he was impeached during his second term. What were you even trying to achieve here by saying such a stupid thing?

by Anonymousreply 85September 26, 2019 3:31 PM

No it won’t, Boris, but hopefully it will make you more likely to STFU. Unfortunately, I fear it will result in the exact opposite. Please consider self-deporting to Murmansk, you’ll be much more comfortable, and we will all be less agitated. Now, take your Midol and Haldol, and try to sleep.

by Anonymousreply 86September 27, 2019 6:30 AM
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