Unpopular Music Opinions

Shit I forgot to add periods.

Oh honey, you had a period all over that post.

Adele is a hack songwriter.

Hate Celine Dions voice

R4, Celine’s voice was better in her younger years before she oversang and abused it.

Billie Holiday is overrated. When she was great, she was great, but every BH song sounds like every other BH song. She had a thin, whiny voice that worked for certain moods, but when you compare her to truly great singer like, say, Sarah Vaughan, you see that her vocal and emotional ranges were limited.

R3 That's not an unpopular opinion. Everyone knows that. Her cowriter for "Someone like you" was interviewed around the time song came out and he accidentally (I think) let it slip that he was done writing the song when adele arrived. Her other cow riter Paul EP worth (Rolling in the deep) has said similar things.

Oops! I meant Paul Epworth

1) Lady gaga's voice is extremely grating. This is more noticeable in ballads than say a song like Poker Face. The day I heard Joanne, I decided I would never hear a ballad from gaga again. I haven't heard her Oscar winning song 'Shallow' yet. Not kidding.

2) Beyonce is not a good dancer. She isn't exactly even a dancer. She does hairography and the same couple of movements every damn time. Her back up dancers are the real stars of her performances.

3) Taylor Swift is NOT a good songwriter! I have seen her fans (even people my age) say " Oh she is a gifted songwriter, best in this generation" And I just want to smack them in the head sometimes. Alex Turner, Florence Welch, Lorde, Hayley Williams,Annie Clark, Lana Del Rey are all better writers.

Bruce Springsteen sucks hard.

Ariana Grande has a good voice but so many singers sound like that now. I don't know if it's a studio trick or layered vocals or what - the point is her voice doesn't stand out. Somebody like Adele or Florence sings ,you know who it is. Ariana songs are identified by "yuh" and BAD enunciation mostly.

Judy Garland is unbelievably overrated. Her so-called singing sounds like a drunk man standing in a dark alley and pathetically braying as a ploy to get attention.

Also overrated are Bob Dylan and John Lennon. The latter's "Imagine" would have been rightly criticized as sappy, treacly, juvenile garbage had any other less-revered songwriter written it.

Gustav Mahler was a blowhard whose harmonic daring often crossed the line into noise. His pianissimos are far superior to his fortissimos, and his lieder are best of all.

R11 you're right on Dylan but wrong on Garland.

I think some of Moby's music is awesome (Everloving, Rushing, In My Heart, God Moving over the Face of the Waters).

Maybe it's ear candy, but maybe that's just what I'm looking for sometimes.

Adeles songs are all over the shop. Someone Like You is very schizophrenic in its dramatic changes in tone. 'Why don't you love, why don't you love? Whyyyyyyyyy!'.

Not a fan of The Beatles

Florence Welch can't sing. She's a banshee.

Can't stand Rufus Wainwright

Bohemian Rhapsody is not a very good song at all. Nor was Queen a particularly good band

Rap = ridiculously awful. Every bit of it.

Foo Fighters are just as bad as Nickelback.

R20 The topic was unpopular opinions.

Meaning you whole heartedly agree, r22?

I agree with nearly all of these so-called unpopular opinions. I used to feel slightly guilty over not liking Aretha Franklin. I don't know whether it's Rufus Wainwright's droning voice I like less or his recording quality. I don't think Billie Holiday's thin-voiced (thanks, r6) rendition of anything is its definitive version. I liked the Beatles a lot more 50 years ago than I do now.

I do not embrace Judy Garland, Madonna, or Bette Midler as a gay icon.

As yet unmentioned:

Exile on Main Street is neither the Stones' best album nor a particularly great album at all.

Led Zeppelin should be mostly remembered for the plethora of hair bands they ushered in.

Barbra Streisand made a few good albums (Broadway, The Way We Were, Funny Girl).

The only truly unpopular opinion I have read here is r12's. Mahler is God.

I agree mostly with r24, except on Led Zeppelin.

No one will listen to RAP music in a not too distant future

Ariana Grande is one of the most overrated singers of today. I don't see why everyone is so obsessed with her. I thought all she went through with the Manchester bombing would make her music deeper but somehow it is even more shallow than before.

Someone who is underrated is Miley Cyrus. People won't give her a chance because of her whole trashy, pot smoking and twerking shtick from 2013 but she is actually pretty good.

I miss when Lady Gaga was the freak outcast who said strange things and wore weird costumes. I know it was best for her career because everyone saw her as nothing more than a cheap gimmick but she isn't nearly as fun now that was forced to "go normal."

Beyoncé has a good voice but 9 times out of 10 she wastes it on stupid booty shaking bullshit that isn't worthy of her talent.

Weird Al should have been a one hit wonder. It was cute the first time, but after that annoying and the idea he built a life long career on that schtick is ridiculous.

This is the only song (and rendition) that I like by Barbra Streisand. She actually shows emotion and flair here. She quickly descended into schlock songs and sappy arrangements.

JLo is not a bad vocalist. Her voice is perfectly serviceable and is no worse than Beyonce, Rihanna, Gaga.

Adele is very overrated, but she gets a lot of praise because the music landscape is such garbage now. Adele seems like a mega-talent when you compare her to her contemporaries.

I've never understood the appeal of Nobel prize winner Bob Dylan.

Or for that matter - Philip Glass.

Love this r33

But not sure it's Nobel-worthy

R19. Finally. I agree.

Maroon 5 fucking sucks. Their songs are such cheesy, poorly written trash and Adam Levine's shrill voice grates on my nerves. Yet every time they release a song it shoots straight to the top of the charts with 100 million streams and gets played on the radio every hour.

I absolutely cannot stand Avril Lavigne

R37 Blame soccer moms and other fraus! Maroon 5 does suck big time. It isn't an unpopular opinion on DL or Reddit but general public disagrees hence the charting of songs.

"Sugar, Sugar" by the Archies is an eargasm; among the best pop songs evah.

Studio trickery is the only thing that makes modern pop somewhat palatable. Producers and technicians have become morticians and the music itself has become a corpse.

I only hear modern pop music when I'm at the gym, and they don't even bother to hide the Autotune anymore. Everybody sounds like a robot and the beats are all the same. It's like you're listening to the same song over and over, it's all interchangeable now.

Frank Zappa was hilarious. Choke on your glow stick, electronica boy.

I am convinced music these days is created just to be background music while you do other things. It is all just so monotone and bland whether it is pop or rap.

I think r44 is onto something

I can’t stand Adele. I feel she doesn’t have proper singing techniques. Taylor Swift doesn’t have a good voice either.

The pop industry takes advantage of the fact that most people today are musically illiterate. In the 50s, 60s and 70s there were still a lot of people who could sing or play an instrument and they had higher standards.

Here's an unpopular opinion, at least on DL: rap and hip/hop are not fads. They're not going anywhere. They are solidly part of our current musical idiom.

"Rappers' Delight" charted in 1979. That's 40 years ago. The roots of hip-hop are even older: NYC in 1973 (Kool DJ Herc and others).

You may loathe rap and hip/hop--you may be correct to loathe at least some of it--but it has secured its place alongside rock-and-roll in popular culture and history.

Dolly Parton is straight.

R24, I hate the Rolling Stones, aside from a handful of songs. And Exile on Main Street is unlistenable after the first three songs. Mick Jagger always sounds like he has a herniated disc. I don't understand how critics can claim its a classic when it truly sounds like shit. Give me Exile in Guyville any day.

Elvis Costello is boring. I went to see Debbie Harry at the Greek Theatre some weeks ago, he was on the bill too. I left when he came on.

R27 I'm glad Gaga went "normal". I feel she's talented enough without all the stunts and gimmicks but I do think they helped her stand out and put her on the map in the beginning. Plus that shtick gets old. I'm glad she's toned it down.

Can't say I've given Miley a fair enough chance to judge her music but can't help but think that every time I see a picture of her, "well there's the dumbest person on the Earth". She just seems about intelligent as a box of hair.

And yes don't get the love for Ariana. Pretty sure she's a huge bitch and diva. She can go away.

Dylan is a complete fraud: overrated as a songwriter and simply unlistenable as a singer. His Pulitzer and Noble prizes are like a bad joke.

Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell both far surpass Mr. Zimmerman as songwriters. Johnny Cash and Stevie Wonder are also great songwriters who deserve more appreciation.

Barbara Streisand's music won't be remembered for much longer, except among Broadway fans and New Yorkers(especially gay New Yorkers). Her music is pre-modern and NONE of her songs does particularly well on youtube or spotify which isn't a good sign.

Catherine Wheel (obscure 90s rock band)>>>>>>>>Nirvana, Oasis, Radiohead and all other 90s bands. So much less annoying and self-hating than Kurt cobain, also!

If Madonna was assasinated during the Confessions of a Dance Floor era, her music would be much more loved today on spotify and youtube.

Suede is/was better than The Smiths. Suede just played at being depressed and fem. Morissey was both of those things, which gives his music a more irritating flavor.

Lady Gaga should have stuck to dance-pop songs like Paparazzi and Poker Face. Her music after that sucks (but her costumes and antics were getting old).

Michael Jackson's music isn't that great. I don't really get why his music is THAT popular. Is his music really above that of The Beatles (who I don't even like)? No.

Rap is actually quite versatile.

Love the Geto Boys.

I agree with all of these except for Rufus Wainwright (saw him in concert - his voice is gorgeous and he's a great pianist), Bohemian Rhapsody is one of my favorite songs, there's a lot of great rap out there (think Lauryn Hill instead of the crap that passes for rap these days). and I love the Foo Fighters.

R55, old rap is so much better than what passes for rap nowadays. All sung in the same monotonous drone. Give me Wu Tang Clan or Gangstar.

If you truly think that "most classical music is sonically and emotionally primitive" you're a fucking idiot.

r12 makes part of a point. My favorite movement in all of Mahler is the andante in Symphony No. 6.

R58 When I mean primitive I mean that it doesn't really fit in a lot of more modern instances and situations. The lack of timbral/texture qualities and the overall conservativeness in composition and arrangements doesn't do much for me. And it sounds too Eurocentric. A lot of people act like classical music is the greatest thing ever and the highest form of art, and I just completely disagree.

Hank Jr. > Hank Sr.

r60 Eurocentric or not ... this piece moves me to tears

I don't actively listen to current pop music, but realized why it all sounds the same and has the same sonic affect. It's not the auto-tuning so much as the vocal compression and quantizing. Every note, every syllable, every everything is mixed at the exact same level. There are no more subtle patches or nuances. It become tedious, and sounds robotic.

I've always thought Adele was crap. She has a sound and a look, but she oversings everything. Not to compare her to another big-voiced singer, but someone like Trisha Yearwood can sing just as powerfully as Adele, but only does so when it is emotionally right for the song. Adele sings her guts out whether the song warrants it or not. We get it, Adele, you've got a big voice. Just STFU. And her songs suck.

I do not care what anyone says. Taylor Swift is an incredible writer. You might not like what she does, but that doesn't mean she isn't good at what she does. I don't care for her persona and have no interest in listening to her last few albums, but she can write. It is entirely possible to respect someone's talent without liking it, and, in this case, I respect her undeniable writing ability.

I actually think Adele's song "Hello" is excellent. It is exactly the kind of emotional song she needs to sing. Much better than "Rolling in the Deep" or "someone like you". I think when people buy all those Adele albums and songs (and millions have), it's a response to her image. She isn't a gimmick like Lady Gaga or Katy Perry. What you see is what you get. It's her authenticity that sets her apart from all the pop stars who were around when 21 hit it big.

r54 MJ's music has very impressive hooks. It's like your body wants to hear that "Hee-Hee-OOOOOHH". I guess we can call that funk or something, but I can really jam to his songs.

-Beat It

-Wanna Be Starting Something

-Smooth Criminal (his best work)

-Trapped in The Closet

-Scream (grew on me)

-Billie Jean

-Black and White

-Another Part of Me

No one else sounds like him so he always stands out if your in the mood for his music. Yes, his songs can be more fun than a slow Beatle's hit or their up tempo early-60's music, which is VERY dated. MJ is still played on the dance floors around the world with a huge fan base in Asia and Europe.

I agree with the Aretha criticism, she sounded like she was yelling. I wish she would have attempted a less soulful pop sound, but she wanted to place herself in the soul category.

Diana Ross has a beautiful voice that doesn't exhausted the listeners ears. Gordy was 100% correct for making her the lead of the group.

I like Aretha a lot--but I actually think Dionne Warwick may have a "better" voice (whatever that means). I could listen to "Don't make me over" or "This Girls in love with you" anytime. It's probably because Dionne isn't a big screamer.

Katy Perry cannot sing.

I know a number of musicians who have unique insights into popular music. I don't always share their POV (a couple of them regard Frank Zappa as a genius, which I do not get, not even a bit). But they point out who should have bigger careers based on talent alone.

Weirdly, a number of them have mentioned Carly Rae Jepson, independent of one another.

Yes, that "Call Me Maybe" chick.

Courtney was more talented on all fronts than Kurt

Diana Krall has a dreary voice with limited range and her phrasing can be downright odd at times.

Shirley Horn was a much better singer/piano player than Nina Simone

Jennifer Warnes had better pipes than Linda Ronstadt.

I have said this dozens of times, but I forgive Bob Dylan everything because of "Tangled Up in Blue." That song, and his jangly, wistful rendition of it is perfection.

Every one of his other songs sounds better covered by other artists.

I HATE, HATE, HATE "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing." But you're not supposed to say that because it's the "Black National Anthem."

HATE!!!😠😡😤👿🙉👎💩

R67, yes, she is very, very talented and creative. I'm sure she could easily sing another disposable pop song but that's not the route she wants to pursue. More power to her!

Also, I actually really liked Katy Perry's cover of Yesterday.

I prefer Chicago’s hit making output from the 80s, particularly post-Peter Cetera, than anything they did in the 70s.

R72, Bob Dylan is such a bad singer that his music could ONLY be improved by others singing the material.

Mariah Carey's cover of "Without You" is so much better than the original. Chris De Burgh said that Mariah Carey didn't get the song and she sang it the wrong way. Who the hell is he to talk? He gave the world the awful "Lady in Red". I wouldn't trust him with a knife OR a love song.

Lou Reed could not sing, could not play the guitar, and only had a handful of really well-written tunes

R72 here. As an example of other artists doing Dylan better than Dylan, I give you the great Odetta with "Masters of War," a song as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.

Come you masters of war

You that build all the guns

You that build the death planes

You that build all the bombs

You that hide behind walls . . .

. . . How much do I know

To talk out of turn

You might say that I'm young

You might say I'm unlearned

But there's one thing I know

Though I'm younger than you

That even Jesus would never

Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question

Is your money that good

Will it buy you forgiveness

Do you think that it could

I think you will find

When your death takes its toll

All the money you made

Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die

And your death'll come soon

I will follow your casket

In the pale afternoon

And I'll watch while you're lowered

Down to your deathbed

And I'll stand over your grave

'Til I'm sure that you're dead.

Grok bang on warthog bones with stick...not music! Og night screams when saber tooth tiger approach cave sound much better.

Olivia Newton John has the weakest, tiniest voice in pop music. If she didn't have a highly amplified microphone, you couldn't hear her past the fifth row at a concert. She has good pitch, but she just can't sing worth shit.

"Let it go" is a terrible song. It is just loud and doesn't really connect with the moment. I understand that children are impressionable, but why do adults like that song. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.

"Colors of the Wind" is a Disney song worth the hype.

The popstar cover of hit Disney musical numbers are always unnecessary. Disneny, stop being stingy with your contracts and allow radios/streaming to Just play the movie version.

Vanessa, I love you gurl, but we didn't need this.

Coldplay is the most overrated musical act of this century. Whiney, self-indulgent songs set to music better suited for a dirge. And Chris Martin's voice makes me want to smack my grandmother

I don't like Mariah's voice.

I prefer Dolly Parton's sweet, simple delivery of 'I will always love you' better than Whitney's dramatic OTT version.

Shakira sounds like a goat sometimes, but she can also sound pretty amazing, especially in Spanish. Check out her the little known songs 'La Despedida' or 'La Maza', or her live performance of 'Antes de Las Seis'.

I don't like Mariah's voice.

I prefer Dolly Parton's sweet, simple delivery of 'I will always love you' to Whitney's dramatic OTT version.

Shakira sounds like a goat sometimes, but she can also sound pretty amazing, especially in Spanish. Check out her little known songs 'La Despedida' or 'La Maza', or her live performance of 'Antes de Las Seis'.

R85, that opinion of Shakira isn't unpopular--especially not amongst Latin Americans who liked her before Laundry Service was huge.

R84, one thing I will say in Coldplay's favor--if we didn't have them, then Maroon 5 would be considered "the most popular rock band of the 10s". And as much as I hate Coldplay, I hate Maroon 5 way more (and yes, I know neither is a rock band, but for some reason, the media seems to think they are).

I feel like all female singers are trying to sound black these days.

R89, correction--they are trying to sound like black AND like seals. Just look at Halsey (yes, I know she's mixed).

R15, R33 and many others: We can all agree that Bob Dylan couldn't sing worth a damn. My unpopular opinion is that this actually matters. Ever since pop music went pretentious in the mid/late '60s, music snobs have been worrying about "authenticity" more than actual singing talent. Screw that. I want songs written by people who are good at songwriting (which Dylan is, moderately), sung by people who are good singers. The singer/songwriter crap has been a curse on popular music.

[quote]And it sounds too Eurocentric.

You say that like it's a bad thing, R60.

Justin Bieber > Neil Young

Re, the Beatles, R65 wrote:

[quote]or their up tempo early-60's music, which is VERY dated.

Popular music does not date, any more than any other fashion. A 1964 Cadillac is not "dated", it's just from 1964. You either like the car design of that era or you don't. It's the same with popular music. Once a style in pop music has passed from fashion, it's like jazz or classical music - a matter of what any individual listener finds appealing.

Etta James would have been a good singer if she had stopped screaming from time to time.

Michael Jackson was probably a child molester and I don't care. If I could sacrifice Taylor Swift and a hundred other vapid acts like her to a volcano god to bring him back I would.

R96. Yikes.

r60 Has never heard Stravinsky’s “Rite of Spring”, Schönberg’s “Pierrot Lunaire” or Alban Berg’s “Wozzeck”.

Top 40 radio has been unlistenable for 25 years. And had been on a steady decline for 20 years before then.

Rock music is mostly garbage and always has been. It was rooted in the far superior blues and swing genres. Originally short for rock & roll, the swing influence was quickly stripped away - the roll fell off - and it became cacophonous war-march music.

Al that "strong black woman" caterwauling...where they make a simple word like "cat" stretch for 90 seconds and 27 syllables is ridiculous and annoying. Looking at you Christina Aguillera. Yes, I know she's not black.

R100, she is the worst singer of her generation, easily. Mariah and Whitney both had a few memorable hits. Christina Aguilera had "Beautiful" and "Genie in A Bottle" if I'm being generous--but I hate the first song mentioned and she has never lived up to the promise of her debut. It's not a coincidence that her debut is her only listenable album--her producers said even then she kept trying to over emote every part of the damn songs and they had to reign her in. She is too stubborn and conceited to listen to anyone else's instructions.

Harry Styles is a rockstar.

R44 - the thing is that the charts now include streaming. In the past, a song could only get in the charts if people liked it enough to buy it. Now that streams are counted, artists are actually rewarded for creating background music - because people are less likely to skip bland, inoffensive songs that show up on playlists.

Black Cat is Janet Jackson's best song.

Duran Duran sucks

Fuck you, R105. I sure hope your mot...I mean...I sure hope a bushy-haired man doesn’t shoot you!

Music is awful nowadays. Adele, Taylor Swift, Ariana Pedovoice, and the worst offender Lady Gag are horrible. To paraphrase the movie Heathers, they’re all tuneless poptwats.

Rap is not going anywhere but like all music now, rap is awful too.

The Beatles are awful. Every song makes me wish I were deaf.

Why is music so crud now?

I don't follow pop music, but love Lady Gaga. I think she's uber talented.

Elliott Smith is better than Nick Drake or Bob Dylan.

Was r107 born in 1913?

OP is a musical imbecile. Aretha Franklin and Frank Zappa are among the best examples of outstanding talent in their genres. Apparently periods are not the only thing missing from your comment.

R69 As the poster who called Elvis Costello boring, I agree and would add that they make a perfect couple.

R110, did you miss the title of the thread?

So, tell us, what’s an opinion you have about an artist or song or genre that would cause others to go apocalyptic?

R81 I think Olivia is underrated as a singer. I’ve never heard her live, but occasionally she does a little bit of a belt, like on “Sam,” which is a beautiful song. She’s very distinctive, anyway.

I don't mean to be rude r99, but I hear this a lot, yet pop music is still popular. Perhaps your taste has just changed. I once heard that our music tastes from our teenage years have a huge impact on our likes and dislikes as adults. Of course all of us grow and mature, but we may be comparing a sound to something we loved in our youth that just isn't representative of the 2000s. Doesn't mean you can't stand to listen, but there are lots of wonderful songs.

r94 popular music can be dated. When I say that I mean it just sounds old and out of sync with the times. If Ariana Grande released a turn of the century Max Martin sound it would be out of place with current trends. Music, like movies and other forms of entertainment, can become dated, look at Streisand's catalogue.

Serialism / Twelve-Tone 'music' is not 'music' or 'art' because it fails to move the emotions.

I hate Ed Sheeran's voice/"singing" and have no idea why he's so popular

R109 are you Pedovoice’s ugly brother?

I don't even know what r117 is supposed to mean

Barbra Streisand's music is old-fashioned "grandma music." I've never understood the reverence that older people have for her. She's never been a big deal with my (Gen X) age group.

Ariane Grande can hit high notes but I defy you to understand a syllable of what she's actually singing. That, to me, makes her a horrible singer.

Betty Lynn often sings flat

[quote]Perhaps your taste has just changed. I once heard that our music tastes from our teenage years have a huge impact on our likes and dislikes as adults.

Yes, this is the problem. Most people don’t like music, they like nostalgia. The music I listen to now is not what I listened to as a teenager. I seek out music I enjoy, not music that reminds me of being in high school.

Yes, pop music is popular. Most people have shitty taste, and always have.

The Beatles music, which used to be considered timeless and classic, now sounds really, really dated.

R27 Miley Cyrus is a a terrible singer. I've heard her sing live on three separate occasions and she keeps singing off key and flat. If anybody today has benefited from auto tune it's her.

I know it's blasphemy, but I've never really liked the Beatles either. Most people I've known from my age group are the same way. Maybe they're a "you had to be there" kind of thing.

Rodriguez is a better singer-songwriter than Dylan.

R114 and R123: If by "dated", you mean, "sounds like it comes from an earlier time and is not in synch with current fashion in pop music", what popular music from 1964-70 doesn't sound dated now? It's the nature of popular music to be popular, and popular tastes change. Almost no pop music from 50 years ago is going to be relevant in the current spectrum of popular music. How could it be?

You know what sounds even more dated? Tommy Dorsey and Glenn Miller. You know what sounds almost as dated? Pretty much any pop song from the '80s. I listened to "Gloria" the other day. It's still a great song, but it's unmistakably from 35 years ago. It's a shame if you can't appreciate music from an earlier period without thinking, "wow, that's so dated."

The only older music that doesn't sound dated to most people is music outside the pop mainstream. Classical music, obviously. Jazz, except to aficionados. I think you're saying that

R127-perhaps dated wasn't the best word. Hackneyed might be better. I listen to some of the early guitar riffs, and they're just painful now. And color me odd-Glenn Miller has a timeless appeal to his music to me.

I don't think the Kingston Trio sounds particularly "dated"

OP is teenager who still eats Laffy Taffy for breakfast with her Fruity Pebbles.

Begone, plebian whore. Somewhere a TJ Maxx is missing it’s “influencer”.

The Rolling Stones don't sound dated either. Neither does Queen.

I've learned not to share my unpopular musical opinions in person. That's why I appreciate DATALOUNGE. Here are my unpopular music opinions::

(a) Bob Dylan is overrated, over-hyped, self-important, mumbly, and rude. (b) Aretha Franklin offered great performances early in her career, but after a while she just yelled, yeah, aaaahs, and screamed and let the back-up singers do the work. (c) Jennifer Lopez is mostly hype, PR, and production. (d) Mariah Carey just does vocal acrobatics, oohs, aaahs, yeahs. (e) BLONDIE, Lenny Kravitz, the Decemberists, Roseanne Cash, PRETENDERS, JOAN JETT, DIXIE CHICKS, Lindsey Buckingham, Neil Diamond, Tina Turner, Grace Jones, Aimee Mann, k.d. lang are multi- talented and under appreciated. (f) Bob Marley always has the same rhythm, his songs are about doing nothing but getting high and loving everyone (unless they're gay or Jewish). (g) All of Shaggy's music sounds the same. He doesn't sing, he just kind of rambles and pontificates. (h) Bjork is just weird. (i) John Lennon and Yoko Ono were either delusional with self-importance OR they were scamming everyone into think they are wonderfully talented.

Meant to post this at r129

r127 just because someone doesn't like the Beatles' early hits doesn't man they cant appreciate older music. Lots of those songs followed the tradition of copying black artists. Their later work was what brought them praise and cemented their artistry. We should be happy that others don't agree because that is the theme of this thread.

I stopped liking Starland Vocal Band in 1978 and anybody who plays that crap at a wedding should be annulled. Unless its totally ironic.

Same for most country which is racist and homophobic. Songs that moralize while also brag about screwing around on spouses are as bankrupt as Ted Nugent.

Nobody should be allowed to autotune. Its fraud.

R135, way to go out on a limb with Starland Vocal Band.

R136 I’m a risk taker. I could start riots over The Bay City Rollers.

I don't like Bob Marley, Ziggy Marley or reggae in general, yet popular culture would have us believe it's great meaningful music.

Same monotonous beat.

Same song topics: Get high, don't work, be free, I deserve respect and equality but the fags don't.

Celine Dion's lyrics make no sense and that's just the way it is because of the power of love all coming back to me now.

R128, I like Glenn Miller, too (although I like other big bands better; to me, GM is a bit hackneyed. [I would put a smiling emoji here, but I don't know how.])

I think we just listen to popular music differently. I'm like what someone described above as listening to nostalgia, not music. Thus, everything sounds "dated" to me in the sense that I have strong sense of the period in which it was popular. I can't separate the music from the date. I don't want to, actually.

So, anyway, thanks for the responses. And, in the spirit of the thread, here's another unpopular opinion:

Madonna's 1980s recordings, up through "Like A Prayer", are her best. Everything since then is just part of the noise.

I think Madonna has always been underrated as a singer, and doesn't deserve the negative opinions about her voice. No, she's not a GREAT singer, but her voice is very good for the type of pop music she's always done. Her vocals on "Cherish" and the now-forgotten "This Used To Be My Playground" were excellent.

I think Lizzo is a hack and is completely tone deaf. If she weren't morbidly obese, she'd have no schtick.

The Beatles suck as a band and in their solo efforts. They became famous for being in the right place at the right time. And group of cute non threatening English boys could have been them.

R140, so many songs prove Madonna DOES have a voice, just not an AMAZING one. I will take her voice over Christina Aguilera any day.

R140, speaking of Madonna's voice--aside from The Immaculate Collection, I think I'm Breathless is her best album.

I like the early Beatles albums more than their later albums. The songs are simple and peppy, and they reliably lift my mood, which is the point.

Sgt Pepper is my least favourite album, even more so than Magical Mystery Tour.

The Rolling Stones are not that great.

Donna Summer was a superb vocalist who was criminally underrated.

Hahaha R73, I'm Black and your comment made me crack up. I've never heard of anyone hating "Lift Every Voice and Sing", but I'm glad you got that out of your system, LOL ....

DL is our safe space:

I do not particularly like reggae or most Latin music: I find them both insanely tedious and musically unsophisticated. I've heard as much reggae as I ever need to. My knowledge of Latin music is limited to what I hear the kids/neighbors listening to in Washington Heights.

I think reggae is primarily a signifier of coolness for straight white frat guys who cannot process their own private racism and who find most of rap/hip-hop "too scary." Reggae appears more stoner-friendly to these dudes.

I vastly prefer some rap and hip/hop to either of the above.

What about Brazilian music r148?

They've produced some of the best music on earth

I'll take your word, R149. I don't think they're playing much Brazilian up in the Heights. (Or maybe they are...)

I really hated what I used to call "spanish" music when I was a kid, but I appreciate the musicianship and the history of it now. I also loathed country music when I was little and now I think country artists are some of the most talented musicians on the planet.

Teena Marie should've been much bigger than she was. She made some of the best soul music of the 80s, but mainstream top 40 practically ignored her.

Not really Latin, but fado is amazing r148

Critics tend to hate what the public likes. That's why they never talk about consistent hitmakers of the past, like Chicago and Three Dog Night. Instead , they'll put people in the Rock Hall of Fame like Otis Redding, whose whole fame would be non-existant without one song.

On a totally unrelated note, does anyone else find that clean-cut look of The Kingston Trio (R133) hot (at least 2 of the 3)? They give me the same kind of tingle Wally Cleaver gave me on later episodes of Leave It To Beaver.

Not really R133

R146 Her "Imperial Phase" so far exceeds that of any other pop female vocalist who's followed, maybe save Madonna's in terms of longevity. Whitney, Mariah, Beyonce, GaGa, et. al. don't have any close to an album like "Bad Girls" in their discography.

R146, I'm completely serious when I say "I feel love" was easily the most influential song of the past 40 or so years. It was the template fore every dance-pop, synth-pop and electronica song that came afterwards.

"I Feel Love" is a work of art. I know that might sound MARY! but it fucking is.

Maria Callas's voice has such an odd 'squawk' quality I find her UNLISTENABLE. And I enjoy Opera. Please don't banish me from DL.

You're not alone, R159. I respect her talent as a dramatic actress, but I never cared for Callas' voice. I'd never listen to it for pleasure.

Queen are better than The Beatles and Freddie Mercur could out perform that fugly cunt Mick Jagger.

Journey and Foreigner were undeniably cheesy, but they were both GREAT rock bands who never got the critical/media attention they deserved.

I agree R162.

[quote] Teena Marie should've been much bigger than she was. She made some of the best soul music of the 80s, but mainstream top 40 practically ignored her.

TRUTH! Even her debut album with the Minnie Ripertonesque "Deja Vu" should've been a big hit on the charts.

Tragic that she never received the wide recognition that she deserved.

R157, I think that's a widely-held opinion, as well it should be.

I like Aretha Franklin's early years with Columbia Records, when she was pretty much a jazz singer. I also enjoy the soulful Aretha of Atlantic Records fame, but I love what she did while with Columbia.

R157 it also has overtones of trance in there too.

Also despise country, Bob Dylan and not big on reggae either. Bob Marley is okay, but overall, I agree with others that it’s boring.

R85 r86 Lol at the boring ass Whites thinking they are unique for not liking Whitney’s version. You would be right at home with Reddit and other generic sites.

R85 r86 Dolly sounds like a goat

YES r146!!!! Her live rendition of "The Way We Were" is simply beautiful. It's rich like a dessert. The entire live recording from that concert is great. She was a real talent.

R67 Carly Rae Jepsen is actually amazing. I know most people know of her as 'Call me maybe' girl but she has a lot of great music! Listen to :

1) Emotion(song from her album of the same name) 2) Run away with me 3)Gimme love

Then tell me what you think about her

Rock (and roll) didn't die with the 90s, or its apparent resurgence in the early 2000s.

It lives on, just not so much in Top 40 radio, sadly.

The Kills still solidly rock - they provide it all, great tunes, great delivery, and a great look / overall aesthetic.

I think adults aren't that fussed on the entire song of 'Let It Go', it's just the phrase you can quote in a social setting to let your workmate or friend to, well, 'let it go'.

I find most music critics and the influencers of what is considered good music pretty worthless and predictable. They are almost always straight, white, middle-class men, and their upbringing is reflected in the types of artists they idolize and the kinds of music they praise.

On the whole I find rock and roll an extremely overrated genre or music.

R174 The best opinion in this entire thread

Though Linda Ronstadt's version has always been my favorite, I love the high drama of Whitney's"I Will Always Love You." Whitney is one of the very best things that happened to music in the '80s. This white guy will always want to dance with somebody who loves him (which leaves you out, fat racist fuck r168).

Hate Reba McEntire's country accent. Really can't stand her

The male rock Mt. Rushmore:

Bowie. Cobain. Yorke. Mercury.

Kanye West has no talent

Don't like Kylie Minogue's live singing voice

Gays are meant to be at the cutting edge of music and musical taste, but most gay men's taste is atrocious and homogeneous.

Back in the day if I hooked up with someone I'd always check out their CD collection and I could predict what would be there pretty much all the time; loads of Erasure, ghastly 'divas' or boy bands aimed at pre-pubescents.

My favorite Aretha cut. It's fabulous from start to finish.

Cyndi Lauper should have Madonna's career.

The Rolling Stones’ last good album was Some Girls.

The best Rolling Stones album is Their Satanic Majesties Request.

Since I found this thread next to a thread about Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder sucks. "Isn't She Lovely" makes me want to puke.

R186 - true, but I Just Called To Say I Love You is even worse.

Agree with r184 but not r185. The best Rolling Stones album was Beggar's Banquet.

I couldn't agree less, r188. I was originally going to post "Beggar's Banquet is [italic]not[/italic] the Rolling Stones best album" as my Unpopular Music Opinion, but then I remembered I like Exile even less. My two favorite Stones albums are Aftermath and Between the Buttons. I also love Let It Bleed. But I do love Satanic Majesties next, r185. I consider it their most woefully ignored record.

They haven't made an album I've liked since Sticky Fingers.

r24

[Quote]My favorite Aretha cut. It's fabulous from start to finish.

R182 That hussy stole my song!

I don’t like the Beatles. Their music is so bland and interesting to me. I’m 55 so don’t accuse me of being a clueless millennial.

The music of that era I prefer are The Rolling Stones, The Who, Bowie, Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin.

I think I am the only one in my generation that never liked Fleetwood Mac.

The Stones’ “Their Satanic Majesties Request” is more fun to listen to than the Beatles’ “Sgt. Pepper”.

I like the Fifth Dimension's version of "Love Hangover" over Diana Ross's. By the way, their version came out before Diana's, but Berry Gordy intervened and ensured that their version would never hit the charts.

R182: that’s really good. Thanks for posting.

The 5th Dimension version of Sunshine Of Your Love pisses all over the Cream original.

The Association were superior to The Mamas & the Papas, yet despite the fact that they opened Monterey Pop, they weren’t featured in Pennebaker’s documentary.

Even if Diana Ross had never existed, Flo Ballard's life would likely have ended in tragedy and Mary! Wilson would have remained a shady sideshow.

The public and the media would have been a lot kinder when talking about her drug problems if Whitney had been a white pop princess. No one would have called her a crack whore and Diane Sawyer would have been slammed for the exploitative interview.

[quote]The public and the media would have been a lot kinder when talking about her drug problems if Whitney had been a white pop princess.

Like Lindsay Lohan?

R197, absolutely not. The Mamas and the Papas are 10x better than The Association, with the classic songs to prove it.

LOL at how many of the "unpopular" opinions in this thread are really just hipper-than-thou bragging.

Here's an opinion that may or not be unpopular but I know is utterly unhip: I would much rather listen to The Fifth Dimension or even Gary Pucket and the Union Gap than the Beatles from the same period.

Oops. If I'm going to listen to him, I might as well spell his name right: Gary Puckett, with the Union Gap in tow.

The pop audience these days like pop singers to sound black. Just not actually black.

R203, this has been true since the 1920s.

I hate the raspy quality of Adele's voice. Her success is a mystery to me.

Andrew Lloyd Webber is a hack.

r206 that's not an unpopular opinion.

Stephen Sondheim is a far better lyricist than a composer. Much of his best and most lasting work was with other composers (Jule Styne, Bernstein). Even his songs with Richard Rodgers have a melodic vitality lacking in much of his solo work.

Minus his clever lyrics, some of his songs are downright dull. Others are unpleasant.

There. Now I've said it.

Jennifer Hudson sounds like a screech owl, but more off-key.

This is the quintessential Barbra Streisand.

R210, I love that song. Thanks.

Watching the video, you do have to wonder what would make Barbra look in the mirror, see her hair in a perfectly nice, longish flip and think, "you know what this needs? A big, round blob of fake hair that apparently fell out of the sky and perched on the top of my head. Yeah, that's what it needs!"

McCartney was and is more musically talented than Lennon by a long shot.

R212 Might be unpopular but it is entirely true.

Today is his birthday, and that reminded me that Bruce Springsteen music seems overrated to me.

I read somewhere that "dancing in the dark" is his greatest hit. I don't get why.

R199 Whitney and Lindsey are hardly comparable as far as career success and acclaim. The fact that you even think they are comparable is part of the problem.

If you really think Whitney’s addiction gets treated the same as say Kurt Cobain, you’re delusional. People still makes jokes about her even after her death like she was piece of trash on the street. Datalounge does it all the time. I mean she really gets treated like shit at an insane level. I’ve seen more respect thrown towards Mac Miller. It seems like every White celeb addict from Judy Garland to Mac Miller has a sob story but Whitney was just a “ghetto crackhead”. People even disregarded the information that came out she was molested as a child which would further explain her immense issues with her sexuality. It’s completely about her race and gender.

Strangely, what bothers me the most is when a White person says she was a waste of talent. I don’t care if you mean because she choose to make pop over R&B or whatever but most mean because of her addiction. How can you diminish her immense career success because she was an addict? No even knew about it until 2000/2001. If Whitney has never touched drugs a day in her life, it’s not like she would have done much to add to her career legacy. Her career peak of 1985-1999 is the average for most singers. In the 2000s to 2010s, She would have released a few albums that performed moderately well to poorly just like her peers. She might have had a big Christmas album or a successful album covering R&B classics. Eventually she would have settled in Vegas making crazy money to sing I will always love you to the end of her days. It wouldn’t have been anything profound or that’s necessary for her career legacy now.

Having musical 'talent' doesn't make your music interesting. Often quite the opposite.

R215, I love Whitney, like LOVE her, but she sort of did it herself. Kurt never went on Diane Sawyer and made a fool of himself. And he never starred in a reality show also making a fool of himself.

When Whitney was using, but keeping it on the DL, she was not made into a joke.

Fun fact: I worked at a posh hotel in LA when I was 19-20 during the late 90s. Whitney would stay there from time to time. She never left her suite, while Bobby would be loud and annoying with his entourage. The only thing Whitney would order? Baking soda and spoons.

Iggy Pop is a hack who owes his solo career entirely to David Bowie.

r201 I was born in the 80s and think a lot of the so-called ‘cheesy’/uncool music of the 60s is far more listenable than the music made by canozided bands. Frank Zappa thought the same thing.

The Mamas & Papas b.t.w. were wildly out of tune during their Monterey Pop performance, unlike The Association. John Phillips didn’t want The Association in the documentary, because he didn’t think they had the ‘right image’, even though his band didn’t exactly make out-there psychedlic rock either.

R212-that might be true, but McCartney cheapened his talent with his "moon, June, blue" schlock. His lyrics were often painfully simplistic. All they had to do was rhyme. McCartney was a better musician, but Lennon was a better lyricist. That's why together they were magic. They complimented and strengthened one another. The farther they each got from the Beatles, the worse their solo careers got. Wings had some solid music. Once McCartney entered the 80s, we were subjected to drivel like Coming Up.

Despite their cheesy reputation Jim Steinman & Meat Loaf actually wrote accomplished music, and to date are the only musicians to truly successfully integrate musical/opera with rock.

The Beatles, Barbra Streisand, Kurt Cobain, and Frank Sinatra = all entirely overrated shit for stupid audiences.

R217, let's also not forget that Courtney Love is STILL made fun of for being a junkie. So i really don't think its about race like someone else implied. And like Whitney, she made a fool of herself in MANY interviews. Remember when she admitted she was on drugs when she was pregnant with her kid?

Aretha Franklin being a terrible singer, that's just white millenials and gen x being so far removed from black people and culture you think the gospel trained black voice is ugly. White baby boomers worshipped soul singers like Aretha and white gay men in the 70s worshipped black disco divas like Donna Summer and Loleata Holloway (who's that? My point) But now if someone doesn't look or sound like Billie Eilish or Lana Del Rey your whining "oh they're screaming " like Jenifer Hudson who will blow any pop tart away.

[quote]Aretha Franklin being a terrible singer, that's just white millenials and gen x being so far removed from black people and culture you think the gospel trained black voice is ugly. White baby boomers worshipped soul singers like Aretha

Pas moi. I never liked her voice. I didn't like any of her recordings until the Who's Zoomin' Who? album.

[quote]white gay men in the 70s worshipped black disco divas like Donna Summer and Loleata Holloway (who's that? My point)

I didn't. I didn't care for disco. But thanks to Barbara B., I'm familiar enough with Loleatta Holloway, I can spell her name correctly (two "t"s).

I really hate ABBA. They out-BeeGee the BeeGee’s for their screeching chipmunk sound. Pointless lyrics, rinse and repeat music. The penny dreadfuls of pop.

R216 Bull fucking shit on your fairytale story.

You sound like a rapist saying she did it to herself. People harassed her and treated her like shit for one thing or another for most of her career. There are tons of White celebs that have had notable drug addictions that didn’t get shit for it. It shouldn’t even matter if you saw them high or not. One shouldn’t be treated like a tortured soul while the other is just a worthless junkie worthy of being laughed at. It’s shitty.

R223 The fact that she’s being compared to Courtney Love just furthers my point.

R227 was meant for r217

No kidding R227. The racist white queens of DL pull every goddamn excuse for their beloved Judy. They would never dare call her a pill whore, a blowsy drunk bitch or white trash, but when it comes to people like Whitney, terms like crack whore, ghetto trash and junkie are tossed around casually.

OP your out of your mind

R54- My friend and used to say something akin to that (re: Madonna). Once the SEX book and “Body of Evidence” came out, we said, “Oh shit! She should’ve died in a plane crash after The Immaculate Collection.”

You’re right, though; Confessions had the last few songs I really enjoyed from her.

R220 Who can take anything seriously when you are quoting Yoko Ono regarding Paul McCartney. Paul managed to use the word pataphysical in a song for crying out loud, his vocabulary was fine and often his actual rhyming schemes are at least as complex as Lennon's. There was a study done of their lyrics about ten years ago by 3 teachers from University of Auckland, University of Bergen and University of Texas and one of the interesting things about it was " Most striking is that the songs by McCartney were most varied (and least redundant) compared to the other solo authors"(the other solo authors in the comparison being John Lennon and George Harrison--solo written within the Beatles, to clarify).

It compared vocabulary and the type of words used. Paul's songs covered a wider range of topics and tended to be more intellectually complex and take the viewpoint of other people more often and focus more on collective relationships. But you know a lot of people tend to be self-centered so I suppose it's no wonder they would identify more with someone who was almost always singing about himself like Lennon. :D

"...the linguistic evidence shows that, while McCartney lyrics have less negative emotional words than Lennon’s, McCartney’s songs are more intellectually complex and cover a far wider range of perspectives and themes. Lennon’s songs tend to be more self-focused and higher in levels of negative emotion."

Another interesting thing to come out of it was that the songs John and Paul truly wrote together used more sexual words. :) Which might be something for the McLennons to ponder.

R220 continues....

But yes John wrote such stunning solo lyrics as "In the middle of a shave/In the middle of a shave I call your name/Oh Yoko, oh Yoko, my love will turn you on" and this which while certainly an identifiable sentiment certainly isn't a lyrically complex rhyme :You know life can be long/And you got to be so strong/And the world is so tough/Sometimes I feel I've had enough". And "You gotta run/You gotta hide/You gotta keep your woman satisfied". And that's just from the "Imagine" album.

Point being if you pick and choose anyone can be made to look like a simplistic and "sucky" songwriter. The only evidence I believe of a Moon and June rhyme is in "I'll Be On My Way" "When the June light turns to moonlight, I'll be on my way" a song written by Paul and John as far back as 1961.

Paul was very into surrealism etc and his lyrics would often reflect that(and yes sometimes they just reflected he smoked a bit too much pot that day, not saying everything he wrote was brilliant) but they often aren't as much "empty word salad" as the detractors want to make you believe. Sometimes he would also just go for the overall musical sound, not so much the meaning.

These are some lyrics from Paul's early solo single Another Day: "At the office where the papers grow, she takes a break/Drinks another coffee, and she finds it hard to stay awake/It's just another day" and "As she posts another letter to the sound of five/People gather round her, and she finds it hard to stay alive/It's just another day" - you've got a good rhyme scheme, good level of vocabulary, it's expressing an idea of an ordinary woman's loneliness(he is empathizing in these lyrics with someone else and it's not even another guy, it's a woman) as she goes about her day and uses some interesting ways to do it "At the office where the papers grow" and "posts another letter to the sound of five" - I think the bit about where the papers grow is pretty self-explanatory and the sound of 5 means posting the mail at the end of the work day.

If you took a set of Lennon's lyrics above particularly the one about life being long, etc and these McCartney lyrics well then Paul would look like the genius lyricist. :) The ideas they are expressing aren't all that different but John's expressed it much more simplistically and selfishly, Paul's lyrics are more creatively expressed and empathetic. And there are plenty of other examples where you could twist things.

None of which is to say John wasn't a great lyricist what it is to say is that Paul is a much better lyricist than he's often give credit for due to an untrue stereotype that Lennon himself was largely responsible for creating. Lyrics aren't always his focus but when they are, Paul has written some amazing lyrics.

Oh and all that above in R232 and R233 is MY unpopular opinion. :)

Got up, fell out of bed, dragged a comb across my head. What rhymes with bed? What rhymes with bed, for God's sake? Oh head, whew! Song saved!

R231, she managed to eventually comeback from the triple debacle of Erotica-Body of Evidence-Sex Book. What she doesn't seem to be coming back from is INSTAGRAM and plastic surgery. Dear god, keep her AWAY from instagram. If a remake of Sunset Boulevard was made today, it would involve some faded out star constantly posting on instagram for attention (basically, Madonna). I actually think Rebel Heart (the demos) was excellent but the leak and her posting pics on instagram of MLK and others with her text reading "these are rebel hearts"" just killed it. She is so out of touch now. Yes Madonna, when people think of rebellion, they think of MLK, Gandhi and you (rolling my eyes)!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Madonna is doing decently on youtube and spotify, but I think if she was assassinated after COADF was released, she would be so much more respected and played. This happened to Whitney, her itunes downloads were performing horribly until her death. Her behavior made her a laughing stock and nobody even believed she would ever have a comeback. Then, she died when streaming was just starting to take off and itunes was still popular and her downloads and streams exploded. I hope when Madonna dies, something similar happens.

I thought "singers" like Shakira, who sound like Kermit the frog made it with a goat on a wobbly hillside, was a recent phenomenon but apparently not, Marlene Dietrich, albeit not known for her singing, had a severe case of wobbly goat syndrome.

R237, Shakira sounds much better in Spanish. She also was more of an alternative singer and was a brunette. She completed changed her image when she started singing in Spanish.

Millennial/Gen Z singers have the worst affectation out of all past generations. This vocal fry, nasal congestion, mush-mouth thing they do is beyond painful to listen to, how anyone can stand it I don't know. I'm actually surprised by how popular it is, almost every singer does it now. I believe it was the overrated Amy Winehouse who started this trend back in the early 2000s, but it hasn't stopped, I thought it would have died out by now but it's only gotten worse.

Amy Winehouse didn't do vocal fry.

Vobbly goat, R237. Pah! I did a vonderbar job on Bwack Mahket.

R239-spot on. Billie Eilish is one of the great offenders. Her brother says she records lying on her bed and is amazed that she can sing given that she doesn't open her diaphragm. She doesn't and sounds like a teen with vocal fry.

Billie Eilish is unlistenable. God, what garbage.

Bing Crosby. Everytime I hear his voice I feel like I'm going to make a bowel movement. His voice register it's just too low I literally can't handle it.

Buddy Holly. He looked like a 50 year old man and his songs sucked. Never want anyone to die, but at least when he did it spared the world more shit music.

r244 Enya has the same effect on me. Her music makes me feel like I'm going to shit.

Michael Jackson's voice was beautiful in Jackson 5 but atrocious as an adult.

Nick Cave is arrogant and lazy; he has a great idea for a song but doesn't develop it much.

"Dock of the Bay' is a stupid song. Nobody would describe "sitting on the dock of the bay." Stupid lyric.

I loathe Beyoncé. Everything about her.

The only song of Adele’s that is worth listening to is Chasing Pavements.

Can’t stand Sympathy for the Devil, Hey Jude, Kashmir, Mony Mony, Addicted to Love, or anything by CCR.

I’d rather be put in a vat full of scorpions than listen to Cher’s Woman’s World.

The Foo Fighters have one good song named Tired of You. Beautiful guitar and understated.

Flume’s Tennis Courts is genius.

Naughty by Nature’s Hip Hop Hooray is underrated. It’s more than just a song to wave your arms to in a club. The rap is technical and fast with interesting lyrics.

I love Alabama Shakes

I love GOOP’s singing voice, but not a fan of Edith Piaf’s.

I thing the Flying Sequence from the original Superman is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written.

I hate that Beyoncé is treated as if she's some groundbreaking artist when she's never really demonstrated intelligence, ever. Her fans will all act as if you are racist if you say you don't like her. Seriously, I see this happening all the time. I'm not denying she's talented, I just don't think she's that great of an artist or that smart. Rihanna carries herself with intelligence but I have never seen that from Beyoncé.

R244 In fairness, Bing Crosby had a voice made for silent movies and a face made for radio.

Bing Crosby was one of those entertainers who was a HUGE star in his day, a household name, but his whole schtick just didn't translate to later generations so he faded out of the public consciousness. If people even know him at all, it's for White Christmas and nothing else, even though he had a big movie career and many other hit songs.

[quote]Jim Steinman & Meat Loaf actually wrote accomplished music, and to date are the only musicians to truly successfully integrate musical/opera with rock.

Someone needs to listen to more progressive rock.

Despite many claims, there is a lot of AMAZING music still coming out every single day. But there are way too many bands competing for attention.

R251, Crosby hung around too long. If he had retired at the end of the 1940s, he's be remembered today as much as any other big star of that era is. As it is, he kept showing up on TV all through the '50s and '60s, looking older and more tired and less relevant each time, until he was pathetic to watch.

In his heyday, though, Bing Crosby had a great voice for the popular music of the time. To fully appreciate it, you have to listen to the male vocalists of the '20s - high pitched voices, pseudo-British pronunciations, theatrical delivery. Then, listen to Croby's big hits from the early '30s; you'll see why the public loved him and his warm, intimate baritone.

[quote]Crosby hung around too long. If he had retired at the end of the 1940s, he's be remembered today as much as any other big star of that era is.

His music and movies would still be very dated to modern audiences, I doubt he'd be remembered any better if he'd retired then.

R252 got progressive recommendations to enlighten the lessers, then? Or do you just like feeling superior?

My top 5 progressive rock concept albums:

Pink Floyd - The Wall

Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear

The Who - Quadrophenia

Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

Queensrÿche - Operation Mindcrime (gave birth to thousands of progressive metal bands and hundreds of concept albums/"rockperas", but your mileage will depend on your tolerance for metal)

[quote] Unpopular Music Opinions

I love the later releases of Björk and find them interesting and innovative musically and visually.

Jeff Buckley is one of the most overrated artists from the past 30 years. His version of Hallelujah is overblown.

I've seen a lot of comments in this thread expressing puzzlement at Adele's success.

I think Adele is so successful because she came on the scene at a time when her contemporaries (i.e. Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, etc...) were auto-tuned within an inch of their lives and/or had so many distracting gimmicks that their music was an afterthought.

When Adele came out in her stripped-down style of a simple dress, a microphone and a piano player to sing her earnest songs, people found that really refreshing. They responded to it and they still respond to it because it's music at its purest essence without all the bells and whistles.

I sometimes wonder how Adele would have fared if she came out a few generations before when you actually had to have genuine singing talent to make it. I do think she's talented but no greater than the greatest vocalists in pop music history. I wonder if she would have gotten lost in the pack 25 or 30 years ago.

She definitely benefits these days from being a genuine vocal talent in a sea of mediocrity.

There will always be a demand for artists who sing post break-up ballads since there'll always be people who go through a break-up and are in need of songs that express their mood perfectly.

Adele and Taylor Swift have cornered that particular market and make millions off of it.

Alex Turner is the best songwriter of 2000s.

R259, that's what I said earlier in the thread. Adele isn't gimmicky regardless of what you may think about her level of talent. She just sits/stands there and performs her songs straight through. No bizarre costumes, no sexualized dance routines, nope. And her songs and image come off as honest, unlike Lady Gaga who despite being talented, had to totally revamp her image to be successful again.

r259 you are spot-on about Adele. She does have talent, but she's overpraised because given the contemporary music scene, she seems like a genius in comparison. If she were around in earlier eras, she wouldn't have been as praised or as famous because she would've had a lot of competition.

Amy Winehouse was a much better songwriter and singer than Adele.

But Adele did milk that break up with that bisexual boyfriend of hers that launched her singing career.

I wish the style of music that employs backup dancers and big Vegas-style production numbers would come to an end already. It's been around for SO long and it's just become so tired and predictable.

"Aretha Franklin had a god awful voice" - Raw emotion voices usually don't 100% appeal to everyone. That is part of their 'appeal'. Wawawa

"Frank Zappa wasn't funny and had uninteresting music" - Hmmm. For a time, he was the bridge between modern avant-garde and popular song traditions. That alone makes him innately interesting.

"Most classical music is very sonically and emotionally primitive and too austere" - Strongly disagree here. The unlimited combinations of timbres, progressions, motifs, time signatures results in stuff too beautiful to describe in words.

"Some electronic music can be very beautiful and awe-inspiring" - Definitely. Born Slippy forever and ever! Chiller trance and erratic dubstep also hit the mark.

R102, Sorry to break it to you, Harry Styles will never be considered as a rockstar. He is only a copycat. The last rockstar of the century is Alex Turner, and your little puppet hasn't got one percent of Alex's talent. Stop trying to make Harry Styles happen.

Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle and Anita Baker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aretha Franklin.

Elbow, Editors, Manchester Orchestra and Frank Turner are exponentially better than Alex Turner, and that's just off the top of my head.

[quote] Born Slippy forever and ever! Chiller trance and erratic dubstep also hit the mark

I got the Tarzan & Jane of jungle just swung in on the vine this morning mate!

Freddie Mercury didn't have a great voice. Sure, he could project and sing in tune much better than most rockers, and could be very expressive when he chose.

But a lot of the time, his tone is so sharp and shrill that he sounds like a yappy little dog that's somehow learned to sing.

Madonna is the greatest pop artist of the past 30 years.

R272, that's not an unpopular opinion. More people think that of Michael Jackson, but it's not an unpopular thought.

Michael Jackson only had two good albums - Off the Wall and Thriller. Bad only had two good songs (Man In the Mirror and I Just Can't Stop Loving You) and his subsequent stuff was pretty mediocre. He should've let Quincy Jones still be in charge of all the producing after Thriller, that man was a genius in getting MJ's talent out of the box.

R274, I like Bad much more than Thriller. But I actually agree with you. Michael Jackson didn't have great choice in producers after the 80s. I do think his voice sounded best in Jackson five.

Wham's songs were better than George Michael's.

I was reminded of Michael Jackson's artistic decline while watching the Leaving Neverland doc. He was ON FIRE when Quincy Jones was his sole producer and Jones also had a lot to do with how MJ was presented to the public, but once Jackson started having more control over his image and music, his bizarre obsessions got in the way. The Black and White video was shown in the doc, and you had this big intro with Macauley Culkin that was pointless, and from then on it was practically nothing but kids in everything he die. MJ's kiddie shit creeped into his music and videos big time after Jones left.

The Breakfast Club was boring.

in everything he DID.

Gen Xers have a lot of affection for those John Hughes movies, R278, but most of them really don't hold up. They're not nearly as funny and stylish as we remember them. And frankly, the sexism, racism, and homophobia of that period just leaps off the screen--at the expense of the rest of the film.

He did cast them well, though, for the most part.

I sure wish Quincy Jones would do a tell-all. The shit he has seen...

MJ is way overrated and his voice was horrendous and his music mostly garbage after Thriller.

I prefer Dolly's version to Whitney's.

Gaga is shit, totally propped up and full of smoke and mirrors. I know that totally unpopular of an opinion as she has not seemed to mess with the general public.

Jay-Z is also mostly hype.

Madonna's voice was better pre-Evita training in many important ways. Her Dick Tracy vocal training was the best, her live performances after that until Evita training were her most consistent and actually really good.

Celine has a very nasally, unpleasant voice.

American Idol ruined singing. It use to be about the emotion of a song, connecting to the lyrics. Now it is about screaming as loud as you can.

Jennifer Hudson is one of the worst singers of all time. Murders every song she sings.

J-Lo is actually a fairly well rounded talent. ( I can't believe I am saying this).

Early-mid 90's music was fucking awful.

^^^ that was meant to say I know that is not an unpopular opinion as she did not mesh with the general public.

[quote]Serialism / Twelve-Tone 'music' is not 'music' or 'art' because it fails to move the emotions.

Bullshit!

Agreed on Jennifer Hudson. Never got the outrage over her being voted off American Idol. She wasn’t the best singer on the season. Her recorded work is meh and she oversings every song.

"Oops I Did It Again" is my favorite Britney album. I can listen to it all the way through, easily. Well, almost. Not "Dear Diary."

Regarding Madonna's Evita training- Madonna's number 1 problem in the vocal area was control. Before Evita, she seemed to stumble into a great vocal performance every now and again, like at the Oscars for that Sondheim song. She belted she shit outta that song that night. Evita training gave her a lot more control but she reverted back to her old ways within 5 years after that training. She took Roberta Flack's vocal coach on tour with her in 2004 and that was probably her most consistently good vocals of any tour.

The evidence is in this vocal:

I kind of knew Adele would get dragged but damn, you guys are dragging a lot of untouchables. Like dragging them hard. I like Adele a lot but she does benefit from being in an era of extreme suckiness. Her age-wise peers were pretty mediocre.

I am not surprised the Beatles are getting dragged. I have read other forums where there is an extreme anti-Beatles population out there.

The Beatles were before my time and I just never "got" them, especially their pre-Sgt. Peppers stuff, which sounds ancient now. I love the Rolling Stones, Joplin and Hendrix though.

R281, He did a tell-all interview not too long ago (you can google it) and it didn't go over too well. He revealed that Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando had a sexual encounter among other things. It was pretty funny how people, including the Brando and Pryor families, were outraged by Quincy's confessions.

R260 Adele is for delusional women (and gay men), who think it wasn't me, it was entirely his fault that the relationship didn't work. Even more relevant for fat people with emotional issues.

Adele is mediocre. It's just that so many other 'artists' are really low quality.

Adele is a cruise ship entertainer on Taco Tuesday night.

Courtney Love is a lyrical genius.

I agree with that R293 (assuming that Courtney writes her lyrics - the rumor is she doesn't). In any event, Live Through This is a part of the soundtrack of my high school years.

I believe she writes her lyrics R294. The word on the street I've always heard was that Kurt helped write guitar riffs on Live Through This, which may or may not be true. In any case, she has a distinct lyrical voice and all of her songs have her unique lyrical stamp on them. Many of them read like poems—the early stuff more macabre and abstract, the later more refined and "pretty"—but there are fascinating things happening in all her lyrics that people seem to consistently overlook simply because she is Courtney Love.

R295 Did you read that book she released several years ago? It was like a book or poems or stream-of-consciousness ramblings or something like that. I heard it got good reviews, but I've never read it.

Courtney Love's lyrics seem to be very much aligned with her visual style - domesticity, Victorianism, femininity, human sexuality and reproduction, freakishness. I actually think Courtney influenced Kurt Cobain's lyrics - noticeably In Utero (including the term In Utero).

I love "I don't do the dishes, I throw them in the crib" Plump, Live Through This.

R227? Are you kidding? Whitney and the crack is whack stuff? She went on interviews high AF and couldn't handle herself. She's one of my favorite artists of all time, but come on. Kurt just didn't do those things. He was certainly high, but was able to pass as sardonic or jaded. Granted, it was easier to be a junkie when drugs were a huge part of the indie music scene. Whitney also played the god card ad infinitum, which was another eye roll thing she did while high. Though I agree, comparing Whitney to Courtney is insulting to Whitney.

Whitney only had the voice. Everything else was another's creation. That is not an artist. She did not have IT to be an artist despite her vocal gifts which so many church fraus possess.

R298, I was comparing Courtney and Whitney just to show that it wasn't a race thing--both women acted like junkies in public and BOTH were destroyed by the media for their behavior. That's it.

Courtney and Whitney aren't really comparable, Whitney was ruined by drugs and might merit some sympathy, while Love is widely thought to be a bone-evil psychopath who got away with murder. If Courtney Love was destroyed by the media, it wasn't because of her drug use.

'Over & Over', that duet Nelly did with Tim McGraw, was a verboten gay love song. Change my mind.

R302 I thought they just covered the Madonna song.

R302 Was that song the beginning of bro country?

The Beatles songs are best sung by other singers.

Joe Cocker is annoying.

Frank Sinatra's famous singing style is awful. His voice feels so disembodied. At times strong but not luscious ever.

I like Sinatra, but yes, I think he's overrated. Some of his lyrical interpretations are spot on, but others are ridiculous (eg, "Something" by the Beatles).

[quote] The Beatles songs are best sung by other singers.

Very true.

I never got the appeal of Courtney Love. She sounds like a surface being scratched with a rusty pipe.

Natalie Merchant. Don't get me started about that dame.

Worst, most embarrassing song I can think of at the moment: "Emotional Rescue."

Alison Krauss is annoying and sounds like a wounded chipmunk.

Sorry r31 but you need to qualify that JLO's voice aided as it is by technology etcetera and so forth.

Because that bitch can't sing on key. Or maybe you want to say you prefer the tone of her voice to the others.

What you hear on a record is not JLo's real voice.

Agree r91 and I think that Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift among others should have only been song writers and not performers. But I do have to say, the young girls do seem to love Swift and all the things she does to acknowledge them. She's got that fan pleasing part down.

This thread is the perfect example of what an echo chamber this site is.

I love this site but these kinds of threads always end up bringing up the same names and having the same complaints.

R307, Dear Prudence by Siouxsie and the Banshees is one of the best Beatles covers I've ever heard--maybe the best.

R312, I still don't understand how Ed fucking Sheeran is one of the top selling artists today. His music is bland, inoffensive shit. He writes mediocrity and yet, he fills stadiums. He seems like a nice guy but he is even more middlebrow than Maroon 5.

R315, He and Taylor fill stadiums because they're white,straight, and inoffensive.

^^oh look it's the "everything is about race" troll

R315 Sheeran is actually an excellent songwriter, one doesn't have to be over the top or offensive to be good.

Elton John is anything other than a marginal talent. He doesn't write lyrics but only the music yet most of this songs sound the same and are pretty simple arrangements. His voice is average.

I get tired of people saying any singer they feel can't sing is aided by studio technology. There are a lot of singers who can't sing (Paula, Britney, Janet) who have never given a great vocal on record. They all sound like they can't sing ON record so if this wonderful technology existed they would have given at least a great vocal on some songs. When autotune is used, you can tell immediately AND it doesn't give anybody a great vocal.

Bjork's post-Vespertine output is fantastic and I don't understand why so many find it inaccessible. She's always had an experimental style since the beginning.

R318, based on the shitty Sheeran songs on the radio, he has a long way to go to even be considered "middlebrow"--I may have been too generous in my earlier comments.

Bjork is another one: the quality of her voice stops me cold. And I have friends who worship her.

Bitch has lasted all these years, so she must be doing something right. Not all of us get retrospectives at MOMA.

Linda Ronstadt isn't a very good singer. She's a poor technical singer, and has that whiny tone in her voice that white people call "expressive". Meh.

I have no idea why she had such a long career.

Most good singers are really just loud. I was listening to Stevie Nicks sing the live version of 'Landslide' from 1996. Although her voice is not technically good or great by any means, the way her voice conveyed the emotions was superb. The vast majority of popular singers are average and the average singers who sell a lot do so because of this.

I detest most big voiced divas and their showboating. It is like chewing the scenery in acting. It can be nice every now and again but it does not impress me.

r324 just out of curiosity, which female singers do you think are divine?

R325 Divine? How old are you?

The only big voiced diva I like is Whitney but not so much her songs. Still, I find her meh. She uses her voice better than most in her range. Almost all the others don't know how to use their voices and over sing the fuck out of songs which robs them of soul. Celine gave her best vocal on the Titanic song because, I read a few years ago, she was so nervous she was restrained.

I like songs more than artists.

Harry Styles has an amazing voice. So much depth and texture.

Check out Louis Floplinson. This song is actually quite good.

I'll never understand how Pink had such a big pop career. She's bland, butch, ugly and surly. I guess people are just into her circus act.

R329 And all of her songs sound the same. Now she is too much into proving she has a great voice she, too, is over singing all the time.

I don't get the Pink thing either. I've never thought she was good. And god yes, she's butt ugly.

r326 you should like Dionne Warwick, then. She never oversang and was restrained.

Hissing of Summer Lawns is a brilliant album title - so evocative of warm afternoons and kids running through sprinklers.

R332 I don't like her voice at all. And she is way before my time.

R333 That sounds like a Robert Frost poem.

Frank Sinatra is way before my time, but I love his music.

R33, it is a great title, but it was widely reviled at the time as pretentious and abstract.

R335 I still don't like her voice.

We have a bunch of DL posters who don't seem to like any singers at all.

So, OP. "most classical music"? So, the majority of everything written from the earliest known Gregorian chant, through the Baroque Era, the Romantic era, to the atonal composers to Gershwin and Copland to contemporary composers like David Lang and Gabriel Kahane --- all "Primitive" and "too austere."?

I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

I think it's clear, R339, that OP is not the most discerning listener.

R338 It just goes to show someone you think is such a great singer, or a great voice, or a great talent, plenty others disagree. As you can see, there are so many differences in taste out there. What you consider to be a great voice there is at least 3 people who think the exact opposite.

It's not that r341. There are posters who just seem to dislike every single popular singer.

R342 There are a shit ton of people who dislike all popular singers. Some call them pretentious, some call them music snobs, some say they have no taste, some say they are contrarians, some say they have tin ears.

There's also a generational issue. Most people revere the music & pop culture of their youth and tend to reject new things as inferior.

I think if you love music, there's a responsibility to try new things, new singers and bands and sounds. You're not obliged to like anything, but at least you remain part of the ongoing conversation.

I love really 'inaccessible' dissonant experimental music. Electronic, droney, ambient, sound collage to electroacoustic to noise to free improvisation.

Pink became popular because her music was catchy and she had songs about typical, relatable things like being bullied and coming from a broken family. All of her lyrics (even the more recent stuff) are very trite and silly. I like some of her early songs only because they are catchy, and they remind me of my adolescence as someone coming of age in the early 2000s.

It's weird because she seems to have this reputation among a lot of people (especially baby boomers like my parents) as being hardcore and edgy, but her music is as basic and non-threatening as it gets. She is the "basic bitch" pop star version of someone like Courtney Love.

Stay tuned America! In my UNBELIEVABLE Second Term I'll Make America Even More Racist Again by bringing back the GREAT Minstrel Shows our GREAT GRAND Fathers used to love!!! You got this from an Unimpeachable Source!!

Sorry R84, but that's just noise.

^ I mean R284

I tried to like Nirvana but those songs are too monotonous and boring for me. Never understood why people loved them so much.

Tchaikovsky's symphonies are crap. I especially hate the Pathetique. It tries to develop a good motif but loses it under all the pretentious and overthought 'modern' constructs Petr Ilyitch thought would grant him gravitas as a composer. In fact, he was a genius pop composer. Ballets, capriccios and the like were his forte. Symphonic writer he was not.

Also Lenard Bernstein is a mediocre conductor who slept his way up and used character assassination to compete with Karajan and Furtwangler.

^ I like the 5th very much. I don't mind the 6th. The rest I can live without.

R352, the 5th is the best in my opinion too. Still nothing to write home about though.

Modern pop concerts are shit.

And most female pop stars are two-bit hookers.

Italian music and artists were way better than France's in the 60's and 70's. The only reason why French singers were more celebrated and famous was because Italy was primitive in many ways. France was seen as more progressive, technology and culturally wise. I mean divorce was still illegal in Italy until the 70's and singers got banned from television for saying "devil" or "satan" in their songs. Not to mention the poor quality filming of Variety shows and the fact that RAI owns EVERYTHING and doesn't broadcast till this day Italian artists' performances on the internet. It's much harder to celebrate Italian musicians when all their performances are in extream poor quality or blocked.

I must now officially be an eldergay at 41 because I think Billie Eilish is perhaps the most untalented, annoying piece of shit "singer" I've ever heard. I can't believe anyone can listen to her.

R356, I'm 32 (maybe that's elderly in the gay world) and I cannot stand most of the "popular" artists of the past 10 years or so. There are exceptions but still. And I hate how people seem to get gold stars for announcing themselves as bisexual, bipolar, polysexual, etc. Who gives a shit what these people are if their music sucks!?! Case-in-point: Sam Smith. I don't give a fuck that you are gay and non-binary--your music is still bad.

[quote]When autotune is used, you can tell immediately

Not really. Autotune is an industry standard that has been used for many, many years. You can totally tell when it's overused, but it used is used subtly in most of the music released by major labels.

Fan of Autechre, r345?

R359 They're ok, but I find them rather 'easy' actually. I tend to delve for the really niche obscure stuff. I like this piece called Music of the Spheres by Johanna Beyer.

Duran Duran are underrated.

^^^ Duran Duran are are underrated underrated.

Pat Boone should have had a bigger career than Debbie.

Bing Crosby's rendition of Hey Jude is probably the worst Beatles cover in history. I particularly like the "pum pum pum pum pum pum pum pum pum pum pum" silliness at the very end.

A lot of stars from the Old Hollywood generation totally embarrassed themselves in the late 60s/early 70s because they wanted to stay relevant to the younger generation. People like Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Kate Smith, Peter Lawford and quite a few others went on tv and sang then-current pop songs and it was just sad and bizarre to watch.

It happens with every generation of entertainers, though. They can't just accept the fact that they're older and are desperate to still be seen as hip and cool to twentysomethings. Just look at Madonna today.

Dear God R364 that's a wet fart

R63, How are you going to say Adele's songs "suck" only to then follow up with "Taylor is an incredible writer"?? XD Taylor's writing ability is the equivalent of a field full of horse manure.

R367 Taylor is not a great writer and neither is Gaga. Taylor is a better writer than Gaga but that isn't saying much. There is so many paid PR pieces declaring Taylor (and many stars) as "the greatest this and that of their generation" and other extreme hyperbole. The verdict is out on Adele. I need to know how much she actually writes. I'm skeptical. For all the hits she has, Taylor only has a few memorable ones (and only because radio is so corporate and play her nonstop) but she is running out of steam.

R364 has obviously never heard William Shatner's "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds".

R365 makes a great point about older artists trying to stay relevant. But i guess it can work sometimes. Think of all the artists who teamed up with Barry Gibb to get a younger sound (Dionne Warwicke, Barbra Streisand, Frankie Valli, Kenny Roger, Dolly Parton, etc).

[quote]Think of all the artists who teamed up with Barry Gibb to get a younger sound (Dionne Warwicke, Barbra Streisand, Frankie Valli, Kenny Roger, Dolly Parton, etc).

I never thought of that, but you're right. Aretha Franklin wanted a younger sound in the 80s and she also had great success. Sometimes it really does work.

I was thinking of performers who were at least a full generation removed from the current pop culture landscape and how embarrassing it was for them. All the entertainers from the WWII generation who made fools of themselves in the late 60s/early 70s.

R370 If it works, it works. Who cares how removed they are or whatever that means.

[quote]Think of all the artists who teamed up with...

Or Pet Shop Boys teaming up with Liza. That was a fun little record.

Nothing special about Halsey.

New Edition made better music than any of the boy bands or teen pop artists who came after them.

R358, you know you’re an eldergay when 1997 doesn’t seem like “many, many years” ago to you.

R360, so, basically, music that sounds like something SETI would discover and try to figure out if it was weird galactic background noise or a signal from an ancient and now long-extinct race of aliens. (I think your example sounds pretty cool, but it does sound like “music” from space.)

It's kinda surprising how Aretha was able to have a successful comeback in the 80s. I remember dancing to her 80s songs all the time in college. Freeway of Love, Sisters are Doing It, and I Knew You Were Waiting were huge.

I miss the days when an older artist could have a big comeback and still have huge hits on radio and in the clubs. The 80s were the era of the big diva comebacks--Aretha, Patti, Natalie, Diana, Dionne--and the biggest comeback in history, Tina Turner.

R377 Gen X were not ageists. My generation is except for the daddy issues then we want older men to have sex with. Millennials- messed up.

r377 that was fabulous time for comebacks. It's a pity that older artists can't do that anymore. Tina Turner had the biggest comeback in music history, and the biggest hit songs of her life, in her mid/late 40s. That kind of thing would be impossible today.

The entire "Private Dancer" album was flawless. JFC what a great album that was.

Love Tina but sometimes her voice could be shrill asf.

Radiohead is overrated. I think they had a couple of great albums but I don't see why some people consider them the greatest band of the 90s/00s. I think people were just desperate to proclaim a band the greatest in the world after Kurt Cobain killed himself. Look at how some people did that with Oasis? Looks pretty stupid in retrospect (and I like some of their songs).

[quote]I think people were just desperate to proclaim a band the greatest in the world after Kurt Cobain

He didn't deserve the title, either.

R383, I personally am not a fan of Nirvana but they were the most popular band of the 90s and they continue to be popular today. There are many bands I prefer to them.

Yeah, but popularity doesn't make a band "the greatest." Nirvana were good, but not god-like.

R385, my favorite band from the 90s is Catherine Wheel. If you don't know who they are, you need to check out their first two albums. They are similar yet they don't sound the same at all (if that makes any sense). I think their first two albums are far better produced, more aggressive and more memorable than any of Nirvana's albums.

I also think Nirvana Unplugged is incredibly overrated. Except for "About a Girl", all the best songs are all cover songs. If Kurt hadn't killed himself, the album wouldn't be as acclaimed as it is. There were other bands who had much better acoustic albums that came before or around the same time--GNR Lies, Jar of Flies and Sap, to name three.

I also HATE the red hot chilli peppers. Anthony Kiedis sings like a retard who strums a guitar. Does every fucking song they sing HAVE to be about California? Get a fucking different topic, assholes. Under The Bridge is the anthem for all retard bros. And no, I'm not gonna apologize for saying "retard".

Catherine Wheel is fantastic -- just got the reissued Adam & Eve on vinyl. Sounds great. Their lyrics were fantastic - one of Kurt's weaknesses was his nonsensical babbling. Many confused it for genius just because they had no idea what he was trying to say. Give me Catherine Wheel's more personal and emotional lyrics any day.

The entire decade of the 90s was full of overrated drivel shoved down our throats by MTV and record execs. Stone Temple Pilots were much better than either Nirvana or Soundgarden. Unfortunately, Weiland's drug use made them hard to promote.

A lot of bands who were considered a novelty or were one hit wonders in the states had long, illustrious careers in other parts of the world. Placebo, Skunk Anansie are two that come to mind.

On the subject of the 90s, Robbie Williams should have been a bigger star in America. The Ego Has Landed is a great album.

R388, exactly! In my opinion, "Salt" is their best song. I've never heard a song about love like that, ever.

Scott Weiland at his most fuckable for r389.

R389, I have been listening to Placebo on and off for the past 13 years or so. Their debut is still very underrated to me. I don't get why they are hated. They are pop-punk in perfect form.

The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is not a great album--I think she was better with The Fugees than as a solo artist. It's a singles-driven album, I don't find any of the other songs on the album that compelling.

I used to think Shakira sounded amazing in Spanish and atrocious in English. But I watched a lot of her life performances on youtube in the last few weeks, and it doesn't really seem to depend on the language. She sounds awfully nasal in this live rendition of 'Estoy Aquí' (she only really starts singing after 3 minutes). On the other hand, I loved her voice in a live performance of 'Underneath Your Clothes'. Either lots of her 'live' singing is actually pre-recorded and when she really sings live, she has that nasal tone, or she's just very unstable.

Shakira performing 'Underneath Your Clothes'

It's all the peroxide -- she was pretty great on her MTV Unplugged

Beyonce is a whore.

The Swannee song. I cannot stand it! And I don't get why it was so popular? Whether it was sung by Judy Garland or Al Jolson didn't make a difference it's a godawful song and so far beyond annoying it makes me want to kill!

^And speaking of songs that make me want to kill that retch of a nightmare ding ding ding ding ding "song" called "Crazy Frog" from back in the early 2000s that started off as a mobile ringtone and somehow made it to the top of the charts, and not only did it hit No.1 it stayed there for weeks! To my despair and horror this pile of dogshit has over a billion views on YouTube. I cannot fathom how people are so unbelievably stupid that they are willing and actually capable of listening to such rotted shite!

Swanee is an incredibly racist song, by modern standards. If a modern singer ever sang that song, it would be a shitshow of controversy.

[quote]The Swannee song. I cannot stand it! And I don't get why it was so popular?

See my (perhaps not very) amusing post about minstrel shows at R347. These were a dominant form of American stage entertainment through the early 1910's, predating vaudeville, and consisted mainly of deprecating and racist blackface acts. Golden and Hughes were a big minstrel show act captured on early Edison cylinder records, and Jolson brought the genre into the talkies and beyond...the Wiki link shows a bunch of movies with these themes.

Let's keep POTUS from bringing it back in 2020, shall we?!?

Every James Bond theme since A View To A Kill sucks.

R402 This is true.

Singer songwriters get praised more than they deserve to be. Take Carole King's Tapestry album, for instance. Good album, but nowhere near being the masterpiece of a genius like we're told often. Her lyrics are often just as pedestrian and banal as those of the hacks who churned out pop hits.

r402, I quite like License to Kill (Gladys Knight) and GoldenEye (Tina Turner), but everything after that has been terrible, with each successive performer trying to ape the "Bond sound" epitomized by Goldfinger and Live and Let Die; it would be nice if the next Bond theme goes in the lighter direction of a ballad in the vein of Nobody Does It Better or For Your Eyes Only.

Yola's "Lonely the Night" would make a great Bond theme.

Oasis is, AT BEST, a mediocre guitar band with 3, maybe 4, decent songs. Yet they have the nerve to act like they hung the moon when it comes to music. They are NOTHING in America and deservedly so. Why do the Brits go so crazy for them? Liam Gallagher CANNOT sing. He stands at the microphone, puts his nostrils against it and sings in the same nasal monotone for every song. What is so innovative or even proficient about their music?

By the way, the same goes DOUBLE for Robbie Williams - talentless buffoon.

And TRIPLE for Kylie Minogue - third rate Britney bimbo.

R407, agree with you about Kylie being a third rate bimbo. That this minimally talented creature became a star is mind-boggling.

R408 = Is Jason Donovan

Just kidding

The music industry has been overrun by talentless hacks, who use technology as a crutch. What little of substance there is, would fall apart without it.

The overwhelming majority of good music today is made by independent artists that make their own music independently without a record contract or even an agent.

R407,I don't get it either. I think a lot of it in the 90s had to do with the state of rock music in general. For the most part, it was American bands like Nirvana that were getting all the attention. In the late 80s/early 90s, the English music press was constantly hyping bands as "the next best thing". Suede--a band I love--was pronounced as the greatest band in the world by NME before they had even dropped their first album. This is how desperate they were to jump onto any music that could rival the British bands of previous years. When Oasis came, with their shitty attitude and catchy songs, there was finally an English band selling a ton AND critically acclaimed. This created the perfect storm where Oasis was suddenly the greatest band in the world. I love a few of their songs but they are really overrated. And Wonderwall is grating.

R410/411, those are both common opinions.

I hate pop singers who sing with gospel inflictions. They sound like they’re being raped by Jesus.

R373 The only special thing is she’s the biggest asshole I’ve ever had the agony of dealing with in the music industry. Gerard Way was bad. Nickelback was worse. Halsey is THE worst. Unprofessional, arrogant asshole.

R414, she was promoting the fact that she is biracial, bisexual and bipolar. Who does that!?

I don't get the big deal with David Byrne, Barenaked Ladies or BECK. Sometimes I think they believe they're much smarter than everyone. Their music seems gimmicky to me, like they should be performing on MADTV or writing music for a Monty Python film. Their lyrics don't make sense and I think they're making fun of their listeners.

I think Adele was an excellent inspired choice to write and perform the theme to a James Bond film. Florence and the Machine, Elle King or the Pretenders are underrated and should write / perform a James Bond theme.

Joan Jett is underappreciated.

Moby is a talentless hack creating lowest common denominator drivel. The same goes for most electronic/dance artists from the same era.

Morrisey does indeed ride a cockhorse. The Smiths were just a whiny version of Joy Division.

Madonna hasn't had a decent album since Ray of Light.

The only person with any musical talent in Metallica was Kirk Hammett.

Pink is a better vocalist than Lady Gaga.

R65 Diana has the sweetest sound you could imagine... but people in America for some reason prefer the belters with bad enunciation like Aretha and Patti. Diana in the late 60's was rivaled only by the Beatles in terms of global popularity.

The Velvet Underground and Nico is severely overrated... sounds boring and terribly dated, doesn't standout from the typical music of the era. Plus there's an actual fucking Frau singing, which is pretty grating.

Springsteen is the worst. So-called urban poet, porno movie "passion," tuneless unmemorable music. Yuck.

r412 It’s not a popular opinion at all. Most people equal a good song or artist with fame and exposure. The average person doesn’t have an independent taste in music (or art in general), they like what other people like and what’s played on the radio.

R420, no. John Mellencamp is the worst! He gave us Teddy Mellencamp AND "Jack and Diane".

Lizha shucks. Completely overrated.

Regina was better than Madonna.

Too Many Fish in the Sea and Nowhere to Run are better than even the best of The Supremes songs.

R423, Liza is basically a poster child for nepotism. If she hadn't been the child of famous parents she'd be a retired nail salon worker who always grabs the microphone at family gatherings to sing and show off her showbiz moves, and bores her family with all the details of her local community theater performances.

R374 Is that an unpopular opinion though? In terms of talent and influence, NE outclasses every single one of their successors including the group that was designed to be a white version of them (New Kids on the Block).

The sad thing about NE is what we all know: black groups aren't nearly as famous and successful as their white counterparts because black groups aren't marketed in the same way by the industry and the media. The few exceptions are maybe the Jackson 5, The Supremes, En Vogue and Destiny's Child.

Oh my gosh thank you R404. I have NEVER understood the big deal about Carole King's Tapestry and most everyone I know disagrees with me. I respect her contributions to the great american songbook or whatever, but her music and that album have always been pretty banal and soporific to me. The fews songs of hers that I enjoy are usually cover versions performed by other artists.

David Bowie's music sucks. He was beautiful and had a great voice but his songs were meh at best. And apparently he refused to sing the work of better composers, because he had to be replaced by the similar-sounding David Sylvian for Ryuichi Sakamoto's Merry Christmas, Mr Lawrence soundtrack.

R427, I rarely see NE mentioned along side other boy bands. This may be a good thing because boy bands are shit while New Edition isn't. They had genuine talent and although Bobby Brown has descended into a joke now, he was really talented. I personally find his dancing more impressive than Michael Jackson's.

R404, Exile in Guyville>>>>Tapestry, as far as American female singer-songwriter albums go.

Oh that's another one, Liz Phair is a totally overrated hack.

Yeah, r424 can't wait to hear her latest album and see her residency in Vegas

R424 No, but I love how contrary the opinions are in this thread.

Do people actually like Shakira? She seems like a sweet gal, but she does that awful, throaty, moan-singing that sounds like a climaxing walrus, and I find it insufferable.

Also, regarding Liz Phair: I can sort of see the "hack" angle given that she's really only put out two records that are worth a shit, but I find her songwriting on Exile to Guyville to be truly fascinating and redemptive of her missteps. Speaking as someone who has played guitar for over a decade, there are things she does with the instrument on that album manage to strike a weird space between utter simplicity and utter complexity that I can't really explain. There are beautiful and haunting instrumentals throughout that entire record that still give me chills.

R434 Apparently she's a much more enjoyable artist in spanish than she is in english. I've never listened to her spanish language music, but people who are familiar with it say it's superior.

R435, yes, I get the hack angle too, but you also have to listen to her demos to see how talented she is. Many of her Girlysound demos were never released on any albums but they are in some cases better than what ended up on Guyville. The fuck and run demo completely blows away the version on the album. Ditto with Polyester Bride. And that isn't even mentioning "Love Song", "Ant in Alaska, "Wild-Thing" "Easy Target", "Open Season", "Chopsticks", etc. You should buy the 25th anniversary edition (it has a great booklet describing the process of making the album and the myths surrounding it) or listen to it on spotify.

Bohemian Rhapsody is shitty, interminable song and the movie is even worse.

Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks is an incredibly underrated singer.

R439 She butchered 'Landslide' which is unforgivable seeing as Stevie doesn't have a big voice.

r426 I think Liza is one of very, very few performers who would've made it without nepotism. She was a very unique and interesting talent when she was starting out.

I agree with that R441. I would also add Natalie Cole and Bonnie Raitt to that list.

Natalie Cole and Bonnie Raitt, definitely. Also, Jane Fonda. I mean have you SEEN pics of Jane Fonda in her 20s? She was unreal-looking. Even if she'd been a plumber's daughter she would've been noticed.

Rob Thomas has a terrible voice. He emphasizes the consonants maybe? Overarticulates? Bad voice.

Chris Cornell didn't have to do the vocal acrobatics. I would have loved a producer who helped Chris focus on tone. If you disagree, post a link. I'll give it a listen.

R444 He didn't over sing on 'Black Hole Sun' for the most part.

It usually takes me a good 2 minutes into an Elton John song to figure out what song it actually is. He is a marginal talent and his voice is not great but acceptable. His music partner writes all the lyrics.

Beyonce is a terrible singer. Her voice grates on my nerves.

Elton sucks. Trash music and trash person.

R447, the most popular performer of the 70s, ...so I guess most people disagree with your idiotic assessment.

R448, Queen is more popular than Elton. And although Pink Floyd and Led Zepellin are technically 60s bands, they are also more popular than Elton.

In the 70s r449? Only the Bee Gees were bigger.

Pink Floyd and Zeppelin were nowhere near Elton John's level of popularity in the 70s. Even conservative housewives loved Elton.

Maybe a lot of Pink Floyd and Zepellin's sales were after the 70s. Because Pink Floyd has sold more than Elton.

Elton sucks and is a horrible person.

And so is every pop star r453. What's your agenda?

I never got the Queen adoration. The group literally had about 5 hit records. That's it.

R454 Agenda? We are all on here to give our unpopular opinions.

R455, the public goes crazy for all that anthem rock crap. Look at Journey and Don't Stop Believing. That song is still loved and it's just banal shit. Queen is actually THE most streamed legacy artist on spotify, more than The Beatles or Michael Jackson. And a lot of this popularity was even before Bohemian Rhapsody was released.

The Beatles don't mean as much to younger generations. The Rolling Stones are much more popular with Gen X and Millennials. Somebody mentioned that the Beatles sound rather archaic today, and I agree. The Stones still sound very modern.

R458, that's completely untrue. The Beatles are the second most streamed legacy artist, behind Queen. The Rolling Stones are at number 10.

Not in my experience r459. And a lot of older people do streaming now, too.

In my experience, The Rolling Stones have never had the kind of popularity The Beatles did, ever. The idea that they were ever a threat to The Beatles is laughable. Even today, I know far more people who are Beatles fans and this is among younger people. And streaming is most popular among younger people, not older.

Some of those streaming successes surprised me.

Red Hot Chili Peppers? My god, it was embarrassing to like them 20+ years ago. Aren't they all in their 50s?

Diana Ross has a very pretty pop voice.

R462, it embarrasses me too. I never liked them and I was a kid in the 90s. To give you an idea of how popular they are on spotify--they have several songs at over 300 million streams. Madonna doesn't have a single song with over 150 million streams.

Garbage was actually a good band. Shirley Manson was a much better singer than Gwen Stefani and Garbage deserved to be even bigger than No Doubt was. Apparently it's not cool to like them? Pitchfork made some list of the history of embarrassing grammy nominations for album of the year and I believe Garbage 2.0 was listed. I can think of MANY albums nominated for album of the year that aren't as good as any of Garbage's early albums.

I love Garbage too r465. And they were supposed to be a one off studio band.

Those streaming numbers are depressing. The names who are the most successful are complete garbage for the most part. Kids don't listen to the radio at all- they stream so it makes some sense but fuck music is dire.

R454 and yet you go on and on about Elton John.

It's also older people on streaming now, and I don't mean OLD people, but over 50s. That explains some of the numbers.

[quote]Even today, I know far more people who are Beatles fans and this is among younger people.

I barely know any. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Young people have no taste in music or movies and I am a millennial.

From the garbage I hear played at my gym, I agree with you r471. The latest insult to everyone's ears is that Lizzo whale. I heard her twice at the gym today. Is it too much to ask that a singer stay in tune for three minutes?

R472 Is it too much for a song to have a melody and meaning? Is it too much to ask for vocals that connect to the lyrics and convey emotion?

Liza’s voice is awful.

Kate Bush is fine and all, but I never understood this notion of her being a groundbreaking artistic and music genius.

Me neither R475, but This Woman's Work is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, so I give her props just on that alone.

I adore Kate Bush. I realize that her unique voice is not for everyone. But she's an intriguing, truly individual songwriter, and a pioneer when it comes to instrumentation and vocal effects.

I'm a bit surprised more artists haven't covered her songs. Pat Benatar was successful back in the day with her cover of "Wuthering Heights." Perhaps Kate doesn't allow for more?

meant to link this....

Is Kate's voice really unique? I feel like I've heard similar stuff by other female artists before her time, but I'm not sure. And to me the music isn't that interesting.

Most streamed artists of all time on Spotify:

#1 Drake

#2 Ed Sheeran

#3 Eminem

#4 Ariana Grande

#5 Post Malone

#6 Justin Bieber

#7 The Weeknd

#8 Rihanna

#9 Coldplay

The homeless, Russian lady that’s been singing arias in the LA subway on news stations daily for more than a week now has an amateurish, untrained voice that makes me cringe, the poor dear.

R480, I have to say that Eminem being in the top 10 is very impressive. Unlike every single artist in the top 10, his career began and peaked long before streaming took off. Now that's longevity!

R482 Not really. Rap is a very loyal genre and his music is passed down.

R480, I can truthfully say I've never heard a single song by anyone on that list.

Drake is the product of the music industry homogenizing what we listen to, to where all the kids listen to the same people.

R484, I envy you.

Ariana is a bad ass and that voice is out of this world. But her songs are atrocious. She has eclipsed all her peers in breath taking time.

Ariana is so boring and basic, and her songs are run-of-the-mill, nothing special. I don't get how she got so huge.

And her brother is one of the most repellent men I have ever seen in my life.

R488 But she has THAT VOICE that everyone creams over now. Music was far, far better when everybody wasn't trying to sound like Celine or Christina.

Jim Morrison of The Doors sounded like a Wednesday night lounge singer at a Ramada Inn.

Jim Morrison of The Doors sounded like a Wednesday night lounge singer at a Ramada Inn.

Even Linda Ronstadt, class act that she is, recalls seeing The Doors early on and thinking, "Great band--if only they could get a decent lead singer."

Yeah there are always hipper than thou types trying to say The Beatles are past it, but they still get number 1 albums on re-releases. Abbey Road went #3 in the US and #1 in the UK. People of all ages show up at Paul McCartney live shows. The Beatles kind of have something for everyone because they were very versatile.

Yaz's 'Upstairs At Eric's' is one of the greatest albums of the 80s.

R493 Count me in as someone who just doesn't understand the hoopla over the Beatles. It's not that I think they're bad or anything, it's just that people talk about them like they actually invented sound - like music didn't exist before they came around. I do like a lot of Beatles songs, but there are so many other bands from the 60s and 70s whose music is more interesting and enjoyable to me. With the Beatles, I feel like you kind of had to be there to understand why they're such a big deal. LIke if you were alive during the British invasion and watched that Ed Sullivan episode, maybe you were seeing something new and exciting and the impression never left you. As someone who was born two decades after the British invasion, I find the Beatles music very pleasant but nothing earth-shattering.

Right but you wouldn't be hearing a lot of the music you hear today if NOT for the Beatles. Don't kid yourself they influenced SO many people, so many people picked up instruments and decided they would be in a band because of The Beatles. They opened people's minds to other ideas and sounds, not just their own.

You don't need to like the Beatles music as your favorite but to belittle their influence and the way they changed things and the massive influence they had on culture in many places is just ignorant. They were a BIG DEAL whether they are your favorite or not. A lot of the things you like now, wouldn't be here without them.

Nobody's playing down their influence, just saying that they're not big fans, and you "really had to be there."

"White Rabbit" is one of the greatest songs of all time.

R498, it really is a great song, and I'm creeped out by the way it's being used in that cruise ad. What are they getting at?

Back to the topic: I loathe Led Zeppelin. People say rap isn't music, but, seriously, the sound of Robert Plant howling over the grinding of car gears? That's anti-music. I was shocked to learn that Jimmy Page believed that he was inspired by the blues.

Led Zeppelin pisses me off because of all the plagiarism. They copied and stole from other artists in their early days and never gave credit.

R500 Plus Led Zeppelin hogs the limelight - every music magazine geared toward a 50 something music lover has a Zeppelin / Plant story every month. They pass up any attention and don't allow for newer or lesser bands to be discussed.

Ozzy Osbourne in the early 70s was a better singer than Robert Plant.

Ann wilson was a better singer than Robert Plant.

Jan Terri should have won a grammy for this. Or for "Get Down Goblin".

Janis Joplin was a shit singer.

Actually, Joplin was a very good singer, with a voice that was both powerful and flexible. But she would have burned her voice out by thirty if she'd lived, she was very hard on her vocal chords. Dying young was a good career move.

So glad others aren't into Led Zeppelin. I can't stand Plant's voice. A dying cat. He's the Beyonce of 70s rock.

Zepplin had a few good songs that hold up, but not many, and they seem to have been horrible people all around. Wasn't a fan then, not becoming a fan now.

Prince had a bad falsetto. I cannot listen to "Kiss". It is like nails on a chalkboard to me. He sounded so much better when not singing with a falsetto.

I enjoyed Prince, but some cover versions of his songs (Manic Monday, Nothing Compares 2 U) work so much better than his own vocals.

He really was a terrific pop songwriter. I think his catalogue deserves more appreciation.

R510 It doesn't? Both he and Madonna have revered catalogs.

Prince also wrote and recorded I Feel For You, but Chaka Khan took that song and made it her own.

The thing with the Beatles and with Motown and James Brown is their music is such a part of pop culture people don't understand some of the things they did had never been done before and they changed the entire trajectory of music in 6 years. To go from I want to hold your hand to A day in the life in 3 years then the White album the next year then Abbey Road the year after that with 2 albums and a soundtrack in between those, and all of them sounding different than the other, who does that?

The reason the Beatles have a huge place in music history is that they basically invented studio recording as we know it today, with all sorts of instruments and special effects added to rock music. Before them Rock was guitars and drums, they were the ones who brought in string quartets and electronic effects, and who made music that couldn't be performed live.

'Whether you love the result or not is another question entirely, but either way their influence on the popular music industry was huge.

I love Robert Plant's solo and post-Zeppelin collaborations, but Led Zeppelin music does nothing for me. At least the popular stuff I've heard. And I have no interest in hearing the B-sides.

David Bowie had a really lousy singing voice. Great-looking man, gifted songwriter, extremely cool person.

But he could barely sing. He really should have done more acting and less singing, he was a better actor than he was a singer.

Kylie Minogue is a first rate Madonna. But nothing more.

Whatever you think of his voice, Bowie was a fantastic songwriter, so, I'm happy he recorded more than he acted.

Joplin had a very unpleasant vocal tone because of it, never sounded like she was on key or on beat. She got a lot of mileage on the fact that she was a white woman singing the blues.

My gay friends do not appreciate the fact that I like rock. I like hard rock women and rock gays.

I like Tina Turner and wish she would record again.

I like Florence and the Machine.

I don't get BECK or MATT AND KIM or MOBY or LIZZO.

Idk if Florence Welch and Tina Turner qualify as "hard rock" R520. I'd think Courtney Love and (early) PJ Harvey fit that bill. There are truly not many women who fall in that category. Maybe Patti Smith too.

Over the last four decades, these are most streamed female artists of each respective decade:

• 80s: Whitney Houston

• 90s: Mariah Carey

• 00s: Beyoncé

• 10s: Ariana Grande

I'm surprised that Madonna is not the most streamed female artist of the '80s, aren't you? Black female artists have pretty much dominated for the past 40 years, except for this one.

Ariana Grande isn't black?

R522 Whitney fucking dying had a lot to do with that............

[quote] Every James Bond theme since A View To A Kill sucks.

Garbage's The World Is Not Enough was the last great one for me.

Artists who die young typically get a lot of benefits by way of accolades and sales/streaming.

R524 I don’t think so. I’m 22 and Whitney’s I Wanna Dance with Somebody and How Will I Know are bigger with my age group than any of Madonna’s up tempo pop songs. It’s not just older people that listen to her more because of nostalgia but younger people too. It’s ironic that Madonna’s 80s Pop had more critical acclaim because I Wanna Dance with Somebody sounds more timeless than Papa Don’t Preach, Material Girl, Get Into the Groove, Like a Prayer, etc. IWDWS still gets played at college parties and I don’t see that happening with Madonna’s music anytime soon.

It’s also been seven years since her death so how can you still use that excuse?

Madonna and Whitney were equally as big in the 80s, Madonna just put out more albums.

Madonna won’t die young so she probably won’t be remembered as well or as highly as her peers that died “young”. By the time of her death, her heydey in the 80s will have been long forgotten.

[quote] Artists who die young typically get a lot of benefits by way of accolades and sales/streaming.

IF they have songwriting credits for their songs. In cases like Whitney Houston her family got barely anything since she didn't write her own (most famous) songs. For example, I Will Always Love You is written by Dolly Parton, and she receives all the royalty checks for that song, not Whitney's family.

R527 Ummm no. Everything you wrote is laughable. Utterly laughable. She died, her estate has licensed her music to tv shows and movies. THAT is why she is played more on ONE metric. Going by sales, most people own Madonna's music anyway.

528's comment is just too stupid to comment.

R527 says "I'm 22" in order to then make his point have more validity. No, dear, you are 22+40. You left that part out.

Your age group *can't breathe* *sides hurt*

Wait, R527 legit just tried to have us believe Whitney is played at........COLLEGE PARTIES!!!!! Ahahahhahahahahaha

SURE, JAN!

[quote] Wait, [R527] legit just tried to have us believe Whitney is played at........COLLEGE PARTIES!!!!!

Not r527, but that is very possible since they do have retro 80s or 90s party themed nights playing songs from that era.

R533 And they don't play Madonna? GTFO. That queen tried and failed.

Whitney played at college parties. My lungs are on FIRE.

r532 It’s a fact. I graduated from the University of Notre Dame in 2018. I definitely heard it more on campus than anything by Madonna. I have no reason to lie about it. Like r533 said, there are themed parties, karaoke nights, lighthearted hang outs, etc. White girls love that song like it came out yesterday.

r529 I wanna dance with somebody is more popular than I will always love you. It gets higher streams not that it matters. The singer still gets their cut. It’s not like they’re being paid pennies

r530 She’s played more on every metric and there’s nothing stopping Madonna or whoever owns her music from allowing them to use it in films or movies. Those offers obviously aren’t being made and they aren’t being made for a reason.

R535 Give it up, gurl, no one is buying your bullshit.

[quote] [R533] And they don't play Madonna? GTFO. That queen tried and failed.

Madonna's music gets played at those 80s, 90s and gay themed parties, I am sure.

R535 Ahahahahahahhaha you are triggered. Oh you graduated from Notre Dame in a year that had a one in it just not in the place value you placed it in. hint- the 1 goes in the thousands place. You're welcome.

r534 I didn’t try anything. Like I said, I’ve never heard Madonna playing at a party. I have no idea how old you are but you obviously aren’t around many young people. I didn’t say all of Whitney’s music gets played because that’s not true. It’s just those two songs get played more than anything by Madonna. IWDWS also has higher streams and views than any Madonna song, so I’m sure why this comes as a surprise. You sound like a bitter Madge stan stuck in an alternate universe.

r534 I didn’t try anything. Like I said, I’ve never heard Madonna playing at a party. I have no idea how old you are but you obviously aren’t around many young people. I didn’t say all of Whitney’s music gets played because that’s not true. It’s just those two songs get played more than anything by Madonna. IWDWS also has higher streams and views than any Madonna song, so I’m sure why this comes as a surprise. You sound like a bitter Madge stan stuck in an alternate universe.

R540 Bitch you aren't 22. We all know it. You are trying VERY hard to make it seem you are down with the kids and know what they like. You are trying for the tried and true validity scam. Then you throw in that I must be a Madonna stan to try and discredit my POV. Your posts have been called out by many. No one believes a word you have said. Whitney died and dead celebs get played a lot. Nostalgia and all. But you know that but are trying to score points and take jabs.

You're a pathetic troll but it has provided great laughs.

r540 Lol, you sound unhinged. I don’t know why this is getting under your skin. Why the fuck would I have to lie about my age? It’s just my own experience, you don’t have to take it so personal. Whitney’s been dead for nearly a decade. I fail to see how nostalgia would help her this far into it. You have to be a huge, obsessive Madonna fan to take anything I said as a troll. It’s not that serious. Whitney has a few songs that get played more with younger people. I’m not saying it’s her entire discography. This is just a fact, I’m sorry if it hurts.

Hey all. I'm a very young 18. You see, I am in my senior year of high school. At all of our parties, Paula is like the shit. Da bomb as us kids say. Straight Up is ate up by all the white girls (I'm being very specific here as to paint you a vivid picture). I never hear Whitney played at any of my parties (I'm popular and go to all parties-who else will be the bossy bottom?). Anywayz, like I asked if anybody knew who Whitney was (I'm on old soul) and like no one did. I said she had a song in Love, Simon. They asked which one. I couldn't answer because I didn't know the name. But Paula, Paula is like so popular and everybody loves her even the blackest blacks to the latinoest latino to of course, the straight whites. Once I was dropping my little brother off at his elementary school. I was jamming Straight up and all these kids ran up and said THAT'S PAULA!!!! WE LOVE HER!!!! Before they could run off ( I was a stranger with my door open talking to them for fucks sake) I asked them if they knew Whitney. They scrunched their faces and said WHO with so much disgust. I was going to play the song for them but it was getting creepy and my 18 year old self (did I mention that already?) needed to get back to my prestigious high school where all the kids love Straight Up like it was brand new. Scouts honor!

R543 Lol, you’re BIG mad right now. Tell me how you really feel

R543 That was great.

R544 You're providing so much humor. By all means, please continue your charade.

r546 Why can’t we all just get along? This thread needs more positive vibes. I have a lot of respect for Madonna as an artist. I’m just speaking my truth

The 80s on 8 on Sirius XM hasn't gotten the message that Whitney is more popular than Madonna: they play Madonna all the time, both her dance tunes AND her ballads, but only seem to play 3 Whitney tunes: How Will I Know, I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me), and So Emotional -- outside of their weekly countdowns, I've yet to hear any of Whitney's classic ballads from the 80s, and I've had Sirius XM for going on 3 years now.

r548 I don’t believe you but I can’t confirm because I don’t listen to oldies pop stations. Whitney’s best 80s slow songs were R&B. I hear You Give Good Love and Saving All My Love for You a lot on old school R&B stations

[quote] I've yet to hear any of Whitney's classic ballads from the 80s, and I've had Sirius XM for going on 3 years now.

They don't play One Moment In Time (the Olympic Games theme song) & I Will Always Love You?

It’s incredibly insulting to compare Whitney’s career success to Paula fucking Abdul. Madonna and Whitney complete peers even if you prefer Madonna’s music or feel that she is the better artist. Their music sold at the same rate, Whitney just released fewer albums. There has never been a female pop star as big as Whitney was circa 1992/1993.

In spite of the mean words, I’ve decided to pick my favorite Madonna song.

It’s incredibly insulting to compare Whitney’s career success to Paula fucking Abdul. Madonna and Whitney complete peers even if you prefer Madonna’s music or feel that she is the better artist. Their music sold at the same rate, Whitney just released fewer albums. There has never been a female pop star as big as Whitney was circa 1992/1993.

In spite of the mean words, I’ve decided to pick my favorite Madonna song.

r550 I will always love you isn’t an 80s song.

As someone that actually likes Whitney’s music and loves her voice, I have no idea why it became her biggest hit. I remember being blown away hearing for the first time when I was seven but otherwise, I never have any desire to listen to it.

I was born in ‘96 and grew up in a You Give Good Love/Saving All My Love for You/Exhale/I Believe and You and Me(film version)/My Love is Your Love household so I really prefer her singing on those tracks than some of the big ballads she’s known for

R548, I don't listed to that station, but if they're not playing at least Greatest Love of All, it's surprising. The song was #1 on the Hot 100 for three weeks in May of 1986. You can't get much more '80s than that. Like it or not, that was song was EVERYWHERE - including being stuck in my head now that I've thought of it again.

Back to the topic of the thread, here's an unpopular opinion: I like Greatest Love of All. Sure, the lyrics are extremely sappy, but it's fun to sing along to.

Possibly even more unpopular, or certainly at least unhip: I also like Paul Abdul's Straight Up, as R543 just reminded me.

R527, that's not true. Madonna's 80 sales are actuallly even larger than they look because you have to consider the Immaculate Collection cannibalized the sales of her 80s albums (the Immaculate collection sold 12 million in the US and another 16 million globally). So her 80s material sold a lot more than Whitney's. It wasn't until The Bodyguard era that Whitney really dominated. And the reason Whitney is big on streaming really is because she died. It was only after her death that her youtube views, itunes downloads and streaming numbers took off. She died at the perfect time, when itunes was still big and streaming was just becoming popular. Before she died, her downloads were actually doing very badly on itunes. When she died, well, we know what happened after that.

[quote]Madonna and Whitney were equally as big in the 80s, Madonna just put out more albums.

You weren't even swimming in your dad's balls in the 80s, so how would you know? Whitney was nowhere near as big as Madonna in the 80s. I'm not even a Madonna fan, but she was IT back then

R556, especially globally. Madonna was simply far more popular than Whitney in other countries in the 80s.

Nobody was bigger on a global level than Madonna in the 80s.

Madonna was obviously more of an 80s icon because didnt Whitney only get popular in the late 80s?

R558, Michael Jackson is the most popular solo artist ever so no. But Madonna was definitely second.

r556 Their record sales don’t match your claims at all. Madonna released more albums but Whitney’s albums sold at the same rate. They were equally matched racist cunt. There was never a pop star as big as Whitney during The Bodyguard era.

Bodyguard era: early 90s not the 80s, you pestilent ingrown hair.

I don’t know why you all are so hellbent in discrediting Whitney’s success. I’ve watched videos and interviews from that time and she definitely credited as being one of the biggest stars in the word. Her debut sold over 25 million copies. She’s incredibly close in record sales to Madonna and Mariah despite releasing half as many albums. Why are you trying to make it seem like she was a local music act. She was Madonna’s only female peer in the 80s. That’s a fact.

[Quote]Madonna was obviously more of an 80s icon because didnt Whitney only get popular in the late 80s?

Houston's "Whitney Houston" album, which included "You Give Good Love", "Saving All My Love For You", "Greatest Love Of All", and "How Will I Know?" was released in 1985. Her second album, "Whitney", came out in 1987. I wouldn't consider her as a strictly late 80s star. Houston was very much a pop music icon of both the 80s and the 90s.

[quote]Why are you trying to make it seem like she was a local music act.

No one is saying that, drama mama. Those of us who were alive in the 80s know that Madonna was bigger than Whitney. That is all. It's not even a comment on who was better.

Do you think it’s kind of tragic that Madonna is the most successful female artist of all time?

It’s also sad the highest selling male artist are far more talented than their female counterparts

“Bedtime Stories” was Madonna’s last good album.

R566 No, she earned it but we see you trying to downplay her talent. Fuck off triggered nut.

r561As I mentioned earlier, The Immaculate Collection makes it seem that way because it cannibalized the sales of her 80s albums. In reality, when you take this into account plus the singles sales generated from the albums, Like a Virgin and True Blue sold significantly more than Whitney's debut and second album. Madonna's success unique in the fact that she also sold a TON of singles from her albums. No other female has sold even close to the amount of singles she has. But when Whitney released The Bodyguard soundtrack, it became the best selling album ever by a woman.

R569 Until Alanis and Shania.

R570, actually, it looks like the sales of both Alanis and Shania have been exaggerated a bit. The Bodyguard Soundtrack has outsold both and when you take into account sales produced by singles, The Bodyguard sountrack is still number one (see the link in R569).

r570 Fuck off, The Bodyguard Soundtrack sold way more internationally

Modern pop music sucks.

Whitney was the biggest thing in music in the Bodyguard era, but that ended pretty quickly for reasons we all know.

R574 The Bodyguard success lasted from 1992-1994. No one could have kept that level of popularity going. She also switched over to R&B which sells less than Pop. Even Mariah’s record sales declined after her switch. There’s nothing wrong with her career from 1995-1999 unless you’re White. Waiting to Exhale, The Preacher’s Wife, Brandy’s Cinderella, and My Love is Your Love are all successful projects. She was still outselling Janet, Prince, and Madonna(until Day of Light), as well as countless other female R&B artist from her peer group. The only thing I wished she had done differently is record the entirety of the Waiting to Exhale album on her own. All of the songs were offered to her, it was her idea to have other women sing on the album. It’s an amazing R&B album and would have been huge for her.

[quote]Here's an unpopular opinion, at least on DL: rap and hip/hop are not fads. They're not going anywhere. They are solidly part of our current musical idiom. "Rappers' Delight" charted in 1979. That's 40 years ago. The roots of hip-hop are even older: NYC in 1973 (Kool DJ Herc and others). You may loathe rap and hip/hop--you may be correct to loathe at least some of it--but it has secured its place alongside rock-and-roll in popular culture and history.

George Gershwin, no less, composed a proto-rap song for "Porgy and Bess" way back in 1935:

r575 Whitney's career had cooled considerably in the late 90s, when her problems became public. And that loser Bobby Brown didn't help her popularity either. He was getting arrested every five minutes.

r577 I’m aware of what was happening in her personal life at the time. Her career would have “cooled” all the same at her age and the music genre she was singing. No Pop Star is selling the same over 13 years into their career. I’m not sure why you’re acting like Whitney clean and sober would have been selling the same at 35 making R&B music as 22 year old Whitney singing Pop music. She still was outselling many of her peers which you can’t dispute. If she was doing so poorly, what’s your excuse for them?

As I said before, all of her projects were incredibly successful. Brandy’s Cinderella was watched in over 60 million homes. The Preacher’s Wife and Waiting to Exhale are Black classics. The Preacher’s Wife is the highest selling album of all time. My Love is Your Love is the most critically acclaimed album of her career and her 1999 tour was the highest selling tour of that year. It sold higher than Janet and Mariah’s late 90s albums of the same genre. You want to talk about career decline in the 2000s fine but her career was great for a woman of her age and race throughout the 90s despite her personal life. Like I said before, it only seems like her career declined to old white people that only listen to Pop.

r557 Her drug use wasn’t confirmed until 2000/2001. Her popularity declined with who? White middle America? Good fucking riddance :/

Just saying that Whitney's career had cooled by the late 90s. So had Madonna's. BFD, it happens to everyone.

r580 You argued it was because of the drugs and public scandal. In the 2000s, yes the drugs destroyed her career. In the 90s, her career was perfectly normal for a woman 13-15 years into it.

I clearly remember that by the late 90s Whitney's drug use and erratic behavior were public knowledge. And Bobby Brown did her no favors. Of course it got worse in the 2000s.

r582 You remember wrong

Sorry, r583 it was beginning to be common knowledge about Whitney and drugs in the late 90s. Gossip about her behavior on The Preacher's Wife and then she got busted with Bobby at an airport. Granted it was just weed but still...

R583, yeah, where are the receipts?

Thanks, R578. I'm afraid you may be fighting a losing battle with these white elderqueens, who vehemently deny that Whitney was a global superstar in the 80s and the 90s. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them claim that Whitney was a star only for one year when "The Bodyguard" soundtrack was released.

You make a very good point about how Whitney's sales dropped when she started to sing R&B music predominantly. In fact it was evident even before the mid-90s. After the first two albums, which were mostly pop, sold massively, Houston released "I'm Your Baby Tonight", which was almost entirely R&B, and that album sold significantly less than the first two.

Mariah Carey's last pop album, "Music Box", was her biggest seller internationally. "Daydream", which was part pop, part R&B/hip-hop sold very well in the States, but wasn't as big internationally as "Music Box" was. When she switched over to the R&B genre with "Butterfly" her sales started to drop and she never approached her "Music Box" levels again.

Furthermore, around the time Whitney recorded the "Waiting to Exhale" songs, the pop throne in the US and internationally, vacated by Whitney, was then occupied by Celine Dion, whose "Falling Into You" and "Let's Talk About Love" albums put her in the top 20 selling albums of all time.

r586 Thank you. If you look at Janet, Prince, Mariah, and even MJ(Dangerous), they did not sale as high when making R&B. Like you said, IYBT sold less than her Pop albums and that was without any public scandals. White Middle America never appreciated R&B Whitney.

583 She got busted for weed in 2000 after all of the career success that I mentioned. You just proved my point that things started to go downhill in the 2000s. I’ve never heard of her acting erratic on the set of Preacher’s Wife.

r585 That Mad Tv sketch is from 2002 after her Diane Sawyer interview. Is 2002 during the 90s?????? Where are your receipts? You lost the argument when you couldn’t discuss her career without mocking her drug addiction.

r585 That Mad Tv sketch is from 2002 after her Diane Sawyer interview. Is 2002 during the 90s?????? Where are your receipts? You lost the argument when you couldn’t discuss her career without mocking her drug addiction.

I'm Your Baby Tonight didn't sell as well as her other two albums because it wasn't as strong of an album as those were. And remember Whitney was controversial among a lot of black people at that time because they saw her as a sellout. That was one reason for the whole Bobby Brown mess - she wanted some street cred.

R588, R589, you lost the argument when you couldn't post a reply once. Oh, and mocking her drug addiction was such sport that there was little pushback when MadTV did it. Her career and drug addiction were totally intertwined at that point.

r590 IYBT was an entire New Jack Swing/R&B album because of the complaints you stupid fucking troll. It didn’t sell as well because it wasn’t a Pop album like the first two were. She was attempting to be the very opposite of a sellout. White people didn’t buy the album, Black people did.

r591 In fucking 2002 not the 90s you stupid troll

I'm not a troll you moron, all of the things I said are factual. Everything I wrote was exactly how Whitney was perceived at the time.

The most annoying thing that resulted in Whitney trying to be down with *certain* Black people is the complete bastardization of her childhood and teen years. The running narrative is that she was a poor Black child raised in the slums of Newark, hung with a ruff neck crowd, went to some shitty school, and had never been around “white folks” before being found by Clive Davis and completely transformed.

The truth is she moved out of Newark when she was 4/5 years old to a two story house with a swimming pool. She went to majority White private school that currently cost about $18,000 a year. At one point, her modeling career was so successful, she was hanging out in St. Bart’s with Christie Brinkley and Elle McPherson. Robyn(her longest companion) is well spoken and seems intelligent enough so I have a heard time believing the Whitney was always a hood rat narrative.

r593 How she was perceived in the 2000s idiot. It was already acknowledged that her drug use was known in the 2000s and that it negatively effected her career. You haven’t provided a shred of evidence for the 1990s, certainly not as early as The Preacher’s Wife. You also haven’t come up with an argument for how a squeaky clean Whitney would have sold more singing the same R&B and Gospel songs. White Middle America wasn’t buying those albums either way troll.

Billie Joe McAllister didn’t jump off the Tallahatchie bridge, he was pushed.

No, by the late 90s there were whispers that Whitney was on drugs. Her career around '97/'98 wasn't too good. That was also when she started taking lots of time out of the public eye.

r597 You keep saying this without any evidence. She only did Cinderella in 1997 which was successful. My Love is Your Love outsold every album by her peers expect for Ray of Light and was the most critically acclaimed album of her career. My Love is Your Love, Heartbreak Hotel, and It’s Not Right But It’s Okay were big hits. Her 1999 tour was the highest tour of the year. If that’s Whitney doing poorly, what the hell do call Janet, Toni, and Mariah’s careers at the time? Stop rewriting history

Patti Labelle sucks

R599 = Hateretha, throwing shade from prima donna heaven

R599 = Hateretha, throwing shade from prima donna heaven

R571 and R572 NOPE