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Giant (1956 film)

It's also James Dean's last film. I haven't seen it until two weeks ago, and it was interesting to see Rock Hudson and Dean both fall for Liz Taylor when behind the scenes, Hudson actually fell for Dean, only to be rejected.

What do we think of it today?

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by Anonymousreply 165October 1, 2019 1:14 AM

Way too long.

by Anonymousreply 1September 19, 2019 3:49 AM

Of the three films James Dean made, this is his most jarring performance because he is not allowed to dominate the film (he's very much not the lead), so it just seems like he's out of sync with everyone else in terms of acting style. On his other two films some of the other major actors are fairly Method in style; here, it seems like someone didn't give him the memo to mesh his style with Taylor and Hudson's styles, and so he seems out of place. He's very sexy though.

Everyone has about the worst aging makeup imaginable. But it's a hugely entertaining film (though it is too long).

by Anonymousreply 2September 19, 2019 3:55 AM

It was no "Shane".

by Anonymousreply 3September 19, 2019 4:01 AM

Long and boring. And despite two Oscars, Elizabeth Taylor was not a good actress.

by Anonymousreply 4September 19, 2019 4:03 AM

I love this movie. It is the best summary of Texas I’ve ever seen or read. It nails what it is in the culture that is unique. Wide open space, scrappy wildcatters, big money, big ranches, huge cattle herds, the Tejano racism and intermarriage. It’s my favorite Dean movie. Though I agree he is out of sync with everyone else - it’s consistent with the storyline. The visuals are great.

If you want to understand Texas, you have to watch Giant.

by Anonymousreply 5September 19, 2019 4:21 AM

Each time I watch it, I love it more.

by Anonymousreply 6September 19, 2019 4:35 AM

My mom's favorite movie. She and I watched it shortly before her death.

by Anonymousreply 7September 19, 2019 4:39 AM

I remember it being on the Sunday afternoon movie so many times, I could time breakfast, a shower, chores and lunch and still not miss Dean's scenes. He fascinated me as a boy, but damn, it's like four hours long with commercials.

The oil scene always turned me on.

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by Anonymousreply 8September 19, 2019 4:41 AM

I wonder if Hudson, Dean, and Sal Mineo had a 3-way.

by Anonymousreply 9September 19, 2019 4:47 AM

Deans drunken scene at the hotel was powerful - if a little overdone. I’ve witnessed meltdowns like that. But it was a little over the top acting. I bet the other actors were rolling their eyes.

by Anonymousreply 10September 19, 2019 4:48 AM

Somewhere in one of Liz's memoirs or an interview, she said that Dean and Mineo were palsy, but Rock was nervous near them, being more deep in the closet at the time.

by Anonymousreply 11September 19, 2019 4:50 AM

[quote]r4 Long and boring. And despite two Oscars, Elizabeth Taylor was not a good actress.

Agreed. And Rock Hudson is no great shakes as an actor, either.

Interesting Story: For her screen test, the studio makeup department didn't seem able to do Carroll Baker's face without putting it through a formula used on an already existing star. They made her up with a Sandra Dee look, a Martha Hyer look, etc. These all looked fake on her. Finally when she realized they could only do movie star "looks," Baker said, "Since I'm up to play Elizabeth Taylor's daughter, could you try making me look like...Elizabeth Taylor?"

So they darkened her blonde hair some, gave her thick eyebrows and lashes, and everyone was happy.

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by Anonymousreply 12September 19, 2019 4:52 AM

I liked "East of Eden", both the movie and Dean's performance, much more. It was intense, while "Giant" seemed drawn out and corny to me.

by Anonymousreply 13September 19, 2019 4:53 AM

His final scene in Giant was dubbed by Nick Adams. Dean was killed before he could come back for looping.

by Anonymousreply 14September 19, 2019 4:53 AM

Dean's method acting and scene stealing angered Rock.

by Anonymousreply 15September 19, 2019 4:56 AM

That, too. Also, Jimmy was getting more cock than he was.

by Anonymousreply 16September 19, 2019 5:07 AM

[quote]r115 Dean's method acting and scene stealing angered Rock.

I'm sure he [italic]was[/italic] pissed, because Rock Hudson was barely an actor. He was kind of 1/3 of Gregory Peck.

He could not interact and build with other performers - except later in light comedies with Doris fuckin' Day.

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by Anonymousreply 17September 19, 2019 4:23 PM

Best movie about Texas ever made. Filmed in Marfa. We saw a little league team playing there once, and their name was the Marfa Giants :) The last scene with Rock and the little brown ones always made me think of the Bush who referred to his grandkids? as the little brown ones. Lots of it is creaky or over the top, but the truth of it is still strong. The new rich vs old rich, easy money vs hard won cattle money, race relations, education, Jeffrey Epstein. You name it. It's there. God, I love the scenes with Jett Rink at the Shamrock Hotel in Houston. Maybe the truth comes from Edna Ferber's novel.

by Anonymousreply 18September 19, 2019 4:43 PM

One of the things that drove me crazy about this movie was "Luz." Luz is a Spanish word that means "light." So you'd think if parents were going to give their baby a Spanish name, they would pronounce it correctly, which would be similar to "loose" in English. The way they pronounce Luz in the movie grates on me every time someone says it. It's just plain ugly.

In addition, when they "age" Liz Taylor, they barely even touch her face. She looks like a young woman with gray hair. It's like someone forbade the make-up artists from actually making her look old. God forbid anyone should make Liz look less than perfect!

Well, eventually she did let it all hang out in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

by Anonymousreply 19September 19, 2019 5:07 PM

Luz was named after Bick's sister.

by Anonymousreply 20September 19, 2019 5:11 PM
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by Anonymousreply 21September 19, 2019 5:18 PM

What a snooze of a movie....and James Dean is acting in another film entirely. Liz and Rock are stolid and dull, and JD is a freakazoid wildcard....which may sound like fun, only it isn't.

by Anonymousreply 22September 19, 2019 5:20 PM

The narrative was kind of simple and stupid. Overly long. More like an old-fashioned made-for-TV movie except with A-list actors.

by Anonymousreply 23September 19, 2019 8:58 PM

Yes, R23, but you have it a bit backwards. Director George Eastman made the flat simplistically-shot film style in the 1950s, which later was used as a template for 1970s-1980s TV movies; main shot, second and third POV, back to main shot, etc. i.e. a dull yet efficient cinematic style.

by Anonymousreply 24September 19, 2019 9:09 PM

Bick's sister was named Luz, a Mexican name. Like the British who never use foreign pronunciations for non-English words, neither do Texans. Every Mexican-origin street name in Houston is pronounced like it's an English word. (or they used to be.) So it may grate on you, R19, but the pronunciation was accurate for both sister and baby. I do agree it's a much prettier name in Spanish.

by Anonymousreply 25September 19, 2019 10:25 PM

I agree with R2 and R22, Dean seemed like he was in a completely different movie.

It's his worst performance. He's very out of synch with the other actors, as well as the setting, I mean, who can believe a working-class Texas boy didn't have all the excruciating displays of sensitivity beaten out of him by the time he left home? He's not a gently raised LA boy like the hero of "Rebel", Jett was a cowboy and should have known how to act tough and stifle his feelings!

But no, Dean was young, and didn't have the skill to play a man who had deep feelings he didn't feel it was proper to show (Hudson tried to do that at least, even if he failed). He also was young and didn't have the skill to play a mature man, the way he plays the gray-haired Jett like an angsty teenager is excruciating. Sure, Dean was highly talented, but not infallible. Too bad he never got the chance to grow as an actor.

by Anonymousreply 26September 19, 2019 10:51 PM

Boring overrated movie. James Dean's oil scene and the subsequent confrontation was the BEST Scene in the whole movie. Still I can just watch only the charismatic James Dean scenes Until he got old, It was bad.

by Anonymousreply 27September 19, 2019 11:01 PM

This film was my mother's favorite film as well. I think it's a great film, and a bit long( Christmas scene rambles). Dean's best film in terms of visual. He is very much an American and Texan in his greed, bigotry, and lush. Stevens lets him act outside where his smallness matches the insecurity he feels inside. And he is clearly a racist-as is Jordan. And common. It's a complex role and Dean is very sexy at first. Hudson is excellent in this movie. Just the look he gives his new grandson is priceless. Hudson's chemistry with Liz helps her. This is Liz's best film next to Woolf and Velvet. She is trying at every turn to be an equal-spouse, parent, beliefs. And Liz is always focused because she goes from girl to grandmother and she is always striking the right emotional note. We should probably thank George Stevens. He got a well deserved Oscar for Shane from a lesser film Giant.

by Anonymousreply 28September 19, 2019 11:36 PM

I've never made it through the entire movie. You would think with the beauty of Elizabeth, Rock and James that would be no difficult feat. The film was flat.

by Anonymousreply 29September 19, 2019 11:40 PM

[quote]I've never made it through the entire movie.

Same here, R29. I've tried - and failed - three times.

by Anonymousreply 30September 19, 2019 11:44 PM

[quote]Like the British who never use foreign pronunciations for non-English words, neither do Texans.

You beat me to it.

by Anonymousreply 31September 19, 2019 11:51 PM

This is the scene that got Rock's balls in a twist. Dean steals it by doing that little business with the rope.

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by Anonymousreply 32September 19, 2019 11:58 PM

R32 Well, if only Rock had learned how to act!!

by Anonymousreply 33September 20, 2019 12:00 AM

I remember renting it and going "this is NOT what I thought it was about!!:

by Anonymousreply 34September 20, 2019 12:05 AM

Is the book any good?

by Anonymousreply 35September 20, 2019 12:06 AM

That fry cook that kick's Rock's ass had BDF.

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by Anonymousreply 36September 20, 2019 12:19 AM

Mercedes McCambridge's character was a nasty old dyke. I was quite amused when Liz Taylor's horse that she abusing kicked the shit out of her. Served her right.

by Anonymousreply 37September 20, 2019 12:24 AM

I’ve tried to like this film and have seen it several times—trying to “force” myself to love it because it is such a “respected classic”.

I’ve finally come to the conclusion that there are a few good/great scenes, but overall, this is not a perfect or 4 star film (in my opinion).

I like Liz Taylor, Rock Hudson, and James Dean as actors in general and I think that both Liz and Rock are very good in this. Dean is charismatic as all get out and I like him as young Jett (his scenes with Taylor and especially the oil discovery scene are my favorite in the film and I think he is electric in them ...).

But, yes, as “old Jett” Dean is awful and it is like he’s in a completely different film. I just think he was too young and inexperienced (and not directed well enough) to play that old of a man.

The film is also way too long and—as much as I hate to admit this—the writing is weak in some ways because it comes off as very “preachy” and almost like an after school special in all the speeches about Mexico and race relations. It’s not subtle or well done in that regard at all.

The intermarriage with Liz and Rock’s son (played by Dennis Hopper) could have been very touching—and in some scenes toward the end (the Rock and his “mixed family” in the diner scene especially) really is emotional and touching.

Having said that, the movie itself is kind of all over the place: some good scenes with Rock and Liz’s initial courtship, some lovely cinematography and set design, some good scenes with Liz and young Dean/Jett, good scenes at the end with Rock, Liz, and their whole big brood spending time together—but then there’s also *horrible* old age makeup for everyone, a meandering weak “plot”/story that never seems to end, Liz’s character giving over the top speeches (really meant for the audience) about how modern day Texas with all its big houses, infrastructure, and oil fortunes should really just be given back to Mexico (really? Because the Mexican government was doing such a great job of running the rest of Mexico at that point? It’s all a bit overdone and overwrought...), and Dean as old Jett acting like an insane young man in clown like old age makeup....

Yeah, so, a mixed bag overall (with a great, iconic poster however featuring Dean sitting in the car in front of the big Rock and Liz estate—cowboy hat covering his face) but not something I consider either a personal favorite or an all time classic.

(Also (last complaint): the makeup on or casting of the girl who Rock and Liz’s son (Dennis Hopper’s character) falls for and marries is just odd. She looks frumpy, her makeup looks excessive and badly done, and she just does not look like someone a “golden boy from a big Texas family” would risk everything to marry. It’s not a racial thing either *at all*; there were *plenty* of stunning real Latino or Hispanic actresses in Hollywood at the time that they could have easily put in that role who would have been lovely *and* had good chemistry with Hopper. As it is in the film (I didn’t even bother to look up the name of the actress), the actress they have Hopper fall head over heels for is frumpy and oddly made up and has no chemistry with him, so it really takes you out of the film because you can’t see why he would risk social stigmas and family difficulties to be with this woman (and casting some effortlessly lovely Latina actress would have been very easy, so it just seems like lazy, bad casting on their part).

by Anonymousreply 38September 20, 2019 12:42 AM

I can't believe anyone who wasn't a Texan could watch it. But for us Texans, it's our hurrdidge. ( I read the book in high school before I saw the movie. )

by Anonymousreply 39September 20, 2019 1:22 AM

[quote]R19 So you'd think if parents were going to give their baby a Spanish name, they would pronounce it correctly, which would be similar to "loose" in English.

But who wants to name their baby girl “Loose” for god’s sake ? ?

That’s a disgusting idea.

by Anonymousreply 40September 20, 2019 1:32 AM

My mom would try to get me to watch this with her every time it came on TCM when I was growing up. I think I have made it though the whole movie once in all of those viewings. It is sooo long! I hated all of their kids too.

She also loves The Big Country and I get bored with it too. Maybe I just hate westerns...

by Anonymousreply 41September 20, 2019 1:37 AM

No, [R41]....You don't hate westerns; you just hate boring movies.

by Anonymousreply 42September 20, 2019 1:41 AM

Got to see it on the big screen a few years back, where it’s absolutely mesmerizing.

Hudson is good in the film, but if you really want to see him give a great dramatic performance, check out The Tarnished Angels (1957), where he marvelously plays an aspirational weasel.

by Anonymousreply 43September 20, 2019 1:53 AM

Thanks to you all, I can't seem to get the theme music out of my head

by Anonymousreply 44September 20, 2019 1:55 AM

[quote]One of the things that drove me crazy about this movie was "Luz." Luz is a Spanish word that means "light." So you'd think if parents were going to give their baby a Spanish name, they would pronounce it correctly, which would be similar to "loose" in English. The way they pronounce Luz in the movie grates on me every time someone says it. It's just plain ugly.

Yeah, they were saying it like it rhymes with 'buzz.'

Incidentally, I also hated the way they mispronounced Miguel de Cervantes' name in the film version of MAN OF LA MANCHA. They kept pronouncing it Me-gwell. Did no one on the film know a Spanish speaker?

by Anonymousreply 45September 20, 2019 3:03 AM

It was long, boring, and dull. The only reason to watch it is James Dean. He was one of those movie stars (like Marilyn Monroe) who eclipses everyone else in a scene. You can't take your eyes off him.

by Anonymousreply 46September 20, 2019 3:10 AM

I am not really a fan of this movie, cant tell you why...maybe its length, But the comment that Dean rejected Hudson I dont think is true. According to Hudson s girlfriend soon to be wife who visited the set, Hudson disliked Dean. Hudson was always very competitive with fellow actors and he told Phyllis,his soon to be wife, that he secretely wished Dean were dead. Hudson only fucked around with minor bit players in his movies. Maybe the chance of a scandal if he was porking a major star on set would have been too much of a threat to his career and he didnt want to chance it? When Dean did die at the end of filming Rock was really distraught somehow thinking he wished it and it came true.

Hudson liked blondish guys that were straight acting and he was extremely sexual so you have to wonder what went on in the house in Marfa during filming for the several months or so they were there? Probably only Eliz Taylor knew for sure. Hudson, Dean. and Chill Wills shared a house while the rest of the actors except for Taylor stayed at the hotel in town.

by Anonymousreply 47September 20, 2019 3:10 AM

[quote]Thanks to you all, I can't seem to get the theme music out of my head.

The music is fabulous, my mom had the soundtrack album. It sounds like I’m not the only one here whose mom had a girlhood crush on James Dean.

by Anonymousreply 48September 20, 2019 3:14 AM

When he put his oil-covered hand on the nice clean white pillar, did they ever clean that up?

by Anonymousreply 49September 20, 2019 3:18 AM

[quote]Hudson was always very competitive with fellow actors

Competitive, eh? Then why didn't he take an acting class!

by Anonymousreply 50September 20, 2019 3:18 AM

Rock didn't become famous by acting.

by Anonymousreply 51September 20, 2019 3:20 AM

Cary Grant also hated Dean.

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by Anonymousreply 52September 20, 2019 3:22 AM

R50 wasn't Dean part of the Actors Studio?

by Anonymousreply 53September 20, 2019 3:35 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 54September 20, 2019 3:42 AM

R53 Yes, but I was referring to Rock Hudson. Not James Dean.

by Anonymousreply 55September 20, 2019 3:43 AM

The movie is fun and the novel emphasizes the adjustment the Taylor character makes when she moves to Texas as well as the changes that the oil wealth brought to the ranchers. Edna Ferber is a good read.

by Anonymousreply 56September 20, 2019 3:49 AM

This film would be better with male nudity.

by Anonymousreply 57September 20, 2019 4:04 AM

BUMP!

by Anonymousreply 58September 20, 2019 2:05 PM

The book gets through things quickly and makes its points without hitting you over the head. Edna Ferber was a good writer. The book also shows how Texas history and culture can effect a person new to its customs, language, and relationships. It's interesting. A good clean read. Nothing exciting. Ferber was known for her racially tinged books. She had also written "Showboat". She and Stevens also agreed that he would stay close to the book. He did in many ways. But the ending is different.

by Anonymousreply 59September 20, 2019 4:35 PM

R59, how does the book end? Does Bick run off and leave Leslie?

by Anonymousreply 60September 20, 2019 4:45 PM

OP - where did you hear that Hudson fell for Dean ? I thought I'd read that Hudson didn't like Dean.

by Anonymousreply 61September 20, 2019 4:53 PM

After moving to Texas, I really learned to appreciate this movie. Really gets at the culture of Texas - including the Anglo/Tejano relationship which is something as a Northerner was a very different history.

by Anonymousreply 62September 20, 2019 4:56 PM

R61 See my post at R54. It's from Don Graham's book about the movie.

by Anonymousreply 63September 20, 2019 4:59 PM

R61 Another quote:

[quote]Dean moved into a private home with actor Chill Wills and Rock but clearly Dean and Hudson didn't get along.

[quote]'Rock tried to 'queer' him and when he resisted, Hudson became embittered and asked him to leave'.

[quote]But Rock was too fey for Dean who didn't like men in drag.

by Anonymousreply 64September 20, 2019 5:03 PM

Who are these people claiming it was beloved by Texans? Now, maybe, but back in the day the writers book was hated in Texas as was the movie, because it made them look bad. There are numerous stories about how controversial her book was with Texans.

And James Dean acted like he was in a different movie on purpose. He was a handful and wouldn’t listen to the director and would constantly curse out the Director. He would then storm off. One day Dean whipped out his penis and pissed right there in front of people, including the Director, just to piss him off.

The footage of him walking about like a child and then climbing wasn’t scripted. Dean did that on his own and Stevens told the camera crew to keep filming him, as he found him fascinating at times on his own. It made the film.

There’s hundreds of hours of footage of Dean SOMEWHERE (if they didn’t throw it out) because Stevens would film Dean even when he wasn’t “filming” to see if he would give him footage to use just being Dean.

Dean was also very difficult and intentionally knew how to upstage every other actor, which pissed off the men. It wasn’t just Hudson that hated him, many of the others did to, it was the women that were more tolerant of him.

by Anonymousreply 65September 20, 2019 5:19 PM

I just can't see Hudson having any interest in Dean.

Dean wasn't Hudson's physical type, Dean was obviously indiscreet so Hudson would have kept his distance, and there's nothing like professional disagreements and upstaging to act as a boner-killer anyway. I could see Dean hitting on Hudson, perhaps, but the desire to mess with someone that respectable probably would have been stronger than the physical attraction.

by Anonymousreply 66September 20, 2019 6:26 PM

R65. I've read all the comments and nowhere do I read it is beloved by Texans. Most Texans don't have the IQ to watch anything more than a cartoon sitcom. What I said, and I'm a Texan, is that maybe you have to be a Texan to get it. Texans hated Ferber's book because she was Jewish and Yankee. (Not to mention liberal and anti-racist.) If a Texan had written it, they probably would have loved it.

by Anonymousreply 67September 20, 2019 8:55 PM

[quote]r37 Mercedes McCambridge's character was a nasty old dyke. I was quite amused when Liz Taylor's horse that she was abusing kicked the shit out of her.

A much more interesting film would have been made if they'd concentrated on McCambridge, Dean, and Carroll Baker.

Hudson and Taylor are wastes of space.

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by Anonymousreply 68September 21, 2019 12:24 AM

Documentary about the filming:

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by Anonymousreply 69September 21, 2019 12:35 AM

Grace Kelly was the first choice for the female lead. The other films she didn't make when she left Hollywood to get married were THE COBWEB and DESIGNING WOMAN. Lauren Bacall replaced her in both.

by Anonymousreply 70September 21, 2019 12:38 AM

The gif at R63 gives but a brief glance and how Dean and Baker tried to upstage each other in their scenes together. Whenever Carroll would say her lines, James would fidget, shake his glass, or take a drag on his cigarette. Carroll would respond by also fidgeting, twirling a rose, or affixing her eyes at different areas on Dean as he spoke. Dean was notorious for stealing focus away from fellow actors, and Carroll was determined to match him at his own game.

by Anonymousreply 71September 21, 2019 1:01 AM

[quote]Dean was notorious for stealing focus away from fellow actors,

What was his deal?

by Anonymousreply 72September 21, 2019 1:04 AM

R70, that's not true. In trying to convince Hudson to do the film, director George Stevens told him that he could have any actress he wanted to play Leslie. Hudson responded immediately that he wanted Elizabeth Taylor for the role. Hudson, himself, gave this account.

by Anonymousreply 73September 21, 2019 1:45 AM

He may have requested Taylor, but it would have been after Kelly declined. She was pretty much the first choice for everything, back then.

by Anonymousreply 74September 21, 2019 2:06 AM

Director George Stevens had initially wanted Grace Kelly, but MGM had put her on suspension and offered Elizabeth Taylor instead. George let his leading man decide: Grace or Elizabeth? Rock chose Liz, and the two became lifelong friends thereafter.

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by Anonymousreply 75September 21, 2019 3:10 AM

How come Rock got the final say?

by Anonymousreply 76September 21, 2019 3:26 AM

I don't even know what the director was trying to say with this expensive mess (I now realise 'A Place in the Sun' was supposed to be a critique of the American Capitalist System).

by Anonymousreply 77September 21, 2019 3:37 AM

R76, Because after "Magnificent Obsession" and "All That Heaven Allows," Rock had become a popular star with the ladies. He was poised to become an even bigger star with "Giant," so he was given the power to choose his leading lady.

by Anonymousreply 78September 21, 2019 3:42 AM

That mansion was ridiculously fake.

No houses are built like that surrounded by emptiness. Where are the stables? and the outbuildings and the servants' quarters?

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by Anonymousreply 79September 21, 2019 4:07 AM

Didn't the servants have their own little community down yonder? Taylor's character even pays them a visit at one point.

by Anonymousreply 80September 21, 2019 4:11 AM

"Giant" was Carroll Baker's first real film role, and according to her, during the first few days of filming, she and James Dean, being the Actors Studio outsiders, hung out together for lunch and in-between scenes. James would make fun of Elizabeth Taylor during these breaks, by mocking her Hollywood pretenses and MGM-studio mannerisms. One day, Elizabeth came over to befriend Jimmy, and she instantly won him over. He dropped his lunch buddy Carroll for La Liz. Jimmy would still go around pretending that he was put off by Liz, but, per Carroll, they had become inseparable.

by Anonymousreply 81September 21, 2019 4:26 AM

The remains of Little Reata.

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by Anonymousreply 82September 21, 2019 5:34 AM

[QUOTE]Most Texans don't have the IQ to watch anything more than a cartoon sitcom.

Even the white ones ?

by Anonymousreply 83September 21, 2019 5:36 AM

R10

She dodged a bullet by not doing THE COBWEB. What a stinker !

Two hours about who gets to choose the new draperies for a psychiatric hospital. Quelle drama !!

by Anonymousreply 84September 21, 2019 5:39 AM

R81 You say 'Giant' was Carroll Baker first real film role.

I thought Elia Kazan's 'Baby Doll' was first. But IMDB says they were made simultaneously.

My mother told me 'Baby Doll' was shockingly slutty and forbade me to watch it. It was slutty and incestuous and dirty.

by Anonymousreply 85September 21, 2019 5:44 AM

[quote]R78 He was poised to become an even bigger star with "Giant," so he was given the power to choose his leading lady.

But how could Rock Hudson “choose’ Grace if she were on suspension? And since she turned down so much stuff — which is why she was ON suspension in the first place — there’s no guarantee she’d accept.

Taylor lobbied hard for the part in GIANT, as she had for THE BAREFOOT CONTESSA (which she didn’t get.) I think she was just out of the hospital from having a baby, and needed a paycheck coming in again.

by Anonymousreply 86September 21, 2019 5:47 AM

Re: above

I hadn’t read the link in r75 - it has a letter where Kelly wrote she “longed” to do the project. I didn’t know that!

Thanks [bold]: )

by Anonymousreply 87September 21, 2019 5:53 AM

[quote]R85 I thought Elia Kazan's 'Baby Doll' was first. But IMDB says they were made simultaneously.

GIANT was shot first. Then Baker returned to New York and the Actors Studio. I imagine the fact she’d just made a big film for a serious director like Stevens might have helped Kazan in making the choice to use her for BABY DOLL. There was a sense her career was taking off. (Plus, she was perfect for the part.)

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by Anonymousreply 88September 21, 2019 6:04 AM

Years ago, I stayed up until the wee hours to watch ‘Giant’ on the late, late show.

I thought I was very sophisticated to stay up so late just to watch a movie with James Dean and Rock Hudson

by Anonymousreply 89September 21, 2019 1:15 PM

I was better, r88.

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by Anonymousreply 90September 21, 2019 7:40 PM

R85

I thought the same thing initially but then remembered that GIANT was made first and that it was held back from release for a while while they finalized things. They also had to use others like Nick Adams to 'voice' a scene of DEAN' and also wanted to wait a respectful time after his death before releasing.

GIANT was in production between Spring-Fall 1955. Jimmy Dean died on 9/30/1955. The film was released Thanksgiving week of November 1956.

BABY DOLL began production in December 1955 after GIANT was already in the can. It was released in December 1956 after 3, 4 weeks after GIANT.

IMO, BABY DOLL has got to be one of the most stupid, over-rated alleged big movies of all time. Two hours of a leering, lecherous Karl Malden and equally creepy Eli Wallach chasing dirty sweaty looking Carroll Baker all over a rundown 'mansion' in the deep south. This having been the era of all of those highly dramatic Williams, Inge, Faulkner tales made into film. Even the great Joanne Woodward stunk in a couple of these, like SOUND & THE FURY, The Long Hot Summer.

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by Anonymousreply 91September 21, 2019 8:22 PM

My mom had this theory that Jett Rink was a bastard son of the Benedicts and that's why Luz gave him that little plot of land. It would also explain Jett's bitter resentment of Bick Benedict.

by Anonymousreply 92September 21, 2019 10:51 PM

[quote]r21 IMO, BABY DOLL has got to be one of the most stupid, over-rated alleged big movies of all time. Two hours of a leering, lecherous Karl Malden and equally creepy Eli Wallach chasing dirty sweaty looking Carroll Baker all over a rundown 'mansion' in the deep south.

Oh, no! BABY DOLL is very funny, and expertly acted. And it wasn't a big film at all. It was made on a shoestring.

It's far, [italic]far[/italic]superior to CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, which feels kind of bloated in retrospect.

by Anonymousreply 93September 21, 2019 11:28 PM

The movie Baby Doll was slutty because it featured a sex-starved inbred nymphet who sucked her thumb and licked ice cream cones to try and turn on a young (almost handsome) Eli Wallach playing a ‘greasy wop’ neighbor.

by Anonymousreply 94September 21, 2019 11:38 PM

“Baby Doll” is great; it was one of Elia Kazan’s best movies.

I recently saw it for the first time (and all restored) on TCM, and the casting, performances, dialogue, cinematography, directing, etc., were all very strong.

I thought it was really well done and that the ambiguous ending was pretty bold and had you thinking and wondering about the characters and story long after the film was over.....

by Anonymousreply 95September 21, 2019 11:41 PM

That’s not what it’s about, R94, and the Baker/“Baby Doll” character is definitely of legal age in the film and is not “inbred”....

by Anonymousreply 96September 21, 2019 11:44 PM

The Karl.Malden character is inbred.

by Anonymousreply 97September 21, 2019 11:59 PM

[quote]r94 The movie Baby Doll was slutty because it featured a sex-starved inbred nymphet

She isn't sex starved ... she's happy to remain a virgin and not sleep with her husband. It's the outsider character (Wallach) who's passes through that awakens her feelings. And all they do is kiss.

Lay off Baby Doll Meighan!

by Anonymousreply 98September 22, 2019 12:23 AM

Did Meryl play her as a sex-starved inbred nymphet?

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by Anonymousreply 99September 22, 2019 2:33 AM

No, she was a naturally sexy, naïve, child-like bride, who is raped by the Sicilian by play's end. Meryl nabbed a Tony nomination, but lost to Shirley Knight.

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by Anonymousreply 100September 22, 2019 2:53 AM

I don’t think l could bear watching a mature Vassar College graduate masquerading as an unsullied 19 year old Texas simpleton.

by Anonymousreply 101September 22, 2019 6:39 AM

I don’t think l could bear watching a mature Vassar College graduate masquerading as an unsullied 19 year old Texas simpleton.

by Anonymousreply 102September 22, 2019 6:39 AM

I heard Rock was into Thai men and used to fly overseas twice a year, In Case of Emergency.

by Anonymousreply 103September 22, 2019 7:51 AM

Amazing to think that Mercedes McCambridge is still alive.

by Anonymousreply 104September 22, 2019 8:28 AM

She died in 2004.

by Anonymousreply 105September 22, 2019 8:46 AM

R103 No one else on the internet has heard that gossip.

by Anonymousreply 106September 22, 2019 8:53 AM

[quote] She died in 2004.

And her crook son slaughtered his wife and kids before killing himself because McCambitch was suing him.

by Anonymousreply 107September 22, 2019 3:16 PM

R107 why would she sue her own son?

by Anonymousreply 108September 22, 2019 3:28 PM

He grossly mishandled her investment finances, and her lawsuit revealed he'd done this with other accounts at his firm, as well. He was going to be fired.

From his 12-page suicide note:

[quote] I was conceptualized to save a bad marriage. I accept the ‘new father’; I lost the ‘new father.’ I watch you try to kill yourself twice. You have never been there for me when the chips were down.

[quote]Is this clear to you? That you have hurt every member of my family; that you have hurt me; that I stood by you under some really adverse conditions and that you have never done anything but manipulate me for your purpose… I have broken man’s law, you have not. I have not broken God’s law. You have. There’s nothing more to say.

Last laugh: McCambridge received more than half her son’s estimated $890,000 estate when he died.

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by Anonymousreply 109September 22, 2019 3:38 PM

The poster is almost good. Too many typeface styles. The film is almost good too.

by Anonymousreply 110September 22, 2019 3:48 PM

R109 Damn! But why kill his entire family?

by Anonymousreply 111September 22, 2019 3:50 PM

Well is there anyone alive left from Giant then?

by Anonymousreply 112September 23, 2019 9:31 AM

R112, Jane Withers (93), Earl Holliman (91), Carroll Baker (88)

by Anonymousreply 113September 23, 2019 10:31 AM

Liz Taylor was a true fag hag—and in this case, I mean that with reverence. She put her money where her mouth was, and she was extremely protective of her gay friends and gay men in general.

I know someone who worked for her decades ago, and he says that she was a mess personally but aside from the addictions she was a genuinely loving and supportive person. She was friends with and a champion of Rock Hudson, Montgomery Clift and other (likewise addiction-prone) gay men.

When Ronnie and Nancy chose to abandon Rock Hudson for their political purposes, Taylor founded AmFAR and is a primary reason (if not the primary reason) the country finally found empathy for the people afflicted with AIDS. Here in DC, the Elizabeth Taylor Whitman Walker Center still serves people in need of resources for HIV and other diseases.

The gay community seems to have forgotten the devastation of the AIDS crisis now that PrEP has everyone swapping loads freely, but Taylor was a real hero to gay men and I hope that she always gets due credit.

by Anonymousreply 114September 23, 2019 11:14 AM

^ Very true. And besides her inner circle of gay friends, her father was also gay, whose lover became Liz Taylor's godfather. Liz, to our benefit, was a born fag hag.

by Anonymousreply 115September 23, 2019 12:59 PM

I grew up in Texas and am also a huge James Dean fan, and find lots to love and obsess over this big, wide film... flaws and all (Dean's flaws too!)

I've watched it 50 times or so, and always notice things I hadn't before.

R26 This post makes a correct observation about Dean's performance that someone from Texas would notice. If you want to nitpick, it's true that Dean's character in reality would have moments of wildness, but be more staid and formal with his bullying and racists views and quest for power, and ignorance, and not act as free-wheeling and teenage-y. Especially back then. In reality, think: Rick Perry. Or another actor's example: maybe a little more like Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain.

by Anonymousreply 116September 23, 2019 2:57 PM

I read that Dean, in his final, drunken monologue in the deserted banquet hall, slurred his lines so badly that he was eventually dubbed by Nick Adams. Or was it Dennis Hopper?

Years ago, I finally read the book, which is really very different. That grand house in the book is a rambling adobe edifice, sprawling all over, far more appropriate to the setting. Ferber invents an additional Texas city, called Texas City, where, in a later section, mother Liz and her daughter, are virtually kidnaped and held by Jett Rink, none of which made it into the movie. And the ending, with news of Rock’s terminal illness being held from him, was obviously changed.

Further, there was an epic musical version of Giant, written by Michael John LaChiusa, which is very good. Originally performed at Signature Theater, it was later done at the Public, but doesn’t seem to have had much exposure since. There’s a 2-CD recording, which gives you some idea of its length, but a live recording I heard of it seems to have more music. A fascinating, sometimes lovely, effort.

by Anonymousreply 117September 23, 2019 3:01 PM
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by Anonymousreply 118September 23, 2019 3:05 PM

A great Texas epic. The insertion of the Tejano issue was impressive especially for that time. The depth of racism against “Mexican” looking people in Texas was equivalent to anti-black racism in other parts of the South. It helped me understand my partner who grew up down there in the 60s. They were really treated like subhumans,

by Anonymousreply 119September 23, 2019 3:15 PM

Dean didn't slur his lines in his final scene. He died before looping the dialogue was completed.

by Anonymousreply 120September 23, 2019 4:00 PM

DL fave Rod Taylor had one of his first Hollywood roles in Giant, as the Brit who’s pursuing Liz at home in Maryland. Rock arrives to buy some horses from Liz's father, and departs with his daughter instead.

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by Anonymousreply 121September 23, 2019 6:11 PM

LOVE the film! Pedro for President! Awwww, too late.

by Anonymousreply 122September 23, 2019 6:17 PM

Carroll Baker was so lovely, fresh and appealing in her early films (“Giant”, “Baby Doll”, “The Big Country”) as opposed to her later, 1960s-era sex symbol phase.

by Anonymousreply 123September 23, 2019 6:35 PM

Carroll Baker was lovely, talented and intelligent. She turned down roles that kept her studio from lending her out for CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, THE THREE FACES OF EVE, and other projects...and the chance for major stardom sometimes only comes around once. She was lucky enough to make a comeback in tawdry roles, but those films were nothing like what she could have done, earlier on.

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by Anonymousreply 124September 24, 2019 1:37 AM

Very true, R124 — talented, lovely and intelligent. I can’t understand why she decided to go along with that manufactured sex symbol phase in the 60s — it never seemed genuine and could be construed as a backward step for someone who’d previously garnered artistic credibility.

by Anonymousreply 125September 24, 2019 2:32 AM

You all forget that back when Carroll was dancing at nightclubs and getting part time gigs as a chorus girl, she had hooked up with furrier and hotelier Louis Ritter, who was twice her age. He put her up in one of his hotels, showered her with furs and jewelry, got her her first movie role by bribing the production crew with furs, then married her before a justice of the peace. Tacky. It was while shacked up with Garfein that she became Serious Dramatic Actress. But after she signed a multimillion dollar contract with Joseph Levine, she was back to playing the sexpot in exchange for diamonds and furs.

by Anonymousreply 126September 24, 2019 3:34 AM

There's a great Carroll Baker thread on DL from a little while back.

by Anonymousreply 127September 24, 2019 11:01 AM

R127

"No recent posts found"

by Anonymousreply 128September 24, 2019 12:39 PM

Must I do everything myself?

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by Anonymousreply 129September 24, 2019 3:42 PM

[quote]r125 I can’t understand why she decided to go along with that manufactured sex symbol phase in the 60s — it never seemed genuine and could be construed as a backward step for someone who’d previously garnered artistic credibility.

She had a second husband at that time who was very controlling. Producer Joseph E. Levine thought of her to play a Jean Harlow type in THE CARPETBAGGERS because she was famous for playing a sexy type in BABY DOLL, and then she was offered a long term contract when that was a big hit. Her attention-hungry husband pressured her to stay in that mould, and they had two small kids to support, so she was like Whatever.

The first husband was also a controlling freak who raped her when they were dating, and she felt this meant she had to marry him. (Welcome to 1953.)

Her autobiography is excellent.

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by Anonymousreply 130September 24, 2019 4:21 PM

Who fell for Sal Mineo?

by Anonymousreply 131September 24, 2019 4:40 PM

I liked it but Dean did seem to be in another film. But he was still great.

by Anonymousreply 132September 24, 2019 4:43 PM

Here’s a Baker thread from earlier this year.

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by Anonymousreply 133September 24, 2019 6:32 PM

Do you ever wonder what was going on in Rock and Liz's thought bubbles when they posed or that Giant publicity photo? Liz: 'Hmm, I wonder who's ass I'm second hand smelling on Rock's upper lip....' Rock: 'How do I tell Liz she should lay off the rumaki...'

by Anonymousreply 134September 24, 2019 8:22 PM

R134 I admit I was a little shocked at the OP’s poster. I had assumed this long disjointed epic was supposed to be be some virtuous ‘prestige’ movie.

But this headline ‘Liz’ and ‘Rock’ looks rather trashy. And Dean’s name is under the title.

by Anonymousreply 135September 24, 2019 8:55 PM

r135, OP's poster is from a re-release in the early 60s. Here is the original poster from 1956.

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by Anonymousreply 136September 24, 2019 9:34 PM

[QUOTE] Rock arrives to buy some horses from Liz's father, and departs with his daughter instead.

Bick had gone to Maryland to buy one horse from the the Lynton's, and he did. The horse was called War Winds and was on the train with them when they left Maryland. In case you forgot, it was War Winds who later threw Luz when she was riding him. Bick then shot the animal.

by Anonymousreply 137September 26, 2019 5:57 AM

^^ this plot point alone tells anyone yet to see the movie just how [italic]utterly[/italic] fascinating the story is.

Yes, it's one nail biting CLIFF HANGER after another - -

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by Anonymousreply 138September 26, 2019 6:59 AM

Dear R125, I don't want you to think I'm a snob but I don't know how members of the audience can gauge a screen performer to be 'intelligent'.

Kate Hepburn looked at Shirley Temple and announced that a four year old doesn't need intelligence to be a successful "movie actor". Movie stars like John Wayne just do what they're told.

I'd be more inclined to think that a stage actor would be more skilled if not more 'intelligent'.

by Anonymousreply 139September 27, 2019 1:14 AM

R139 Kate Hepburn was referring to movie STARS, not movie ACTORS.

by Anonymousreply 140September 27, 2019 1:22 AM

~~~~~~~~

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by Anonymousreply 141September 27, 2019 1:27 AM

Shirley Temple wasn't acting, though; she mugged her way through all of her films. No one ever accused Temple of being a great actress. She won the first Juvenile Oscar, but that was because of her box office power.

by Anonymousreply 142September 27, 2019 1:35 AM

I loved GIANT when I first saw it as a youngster, but I saw some of it again recently and I had to stop watching because I thought it was so bad -- the script and the acting are so blunt, everything so on the nose in making its points about greed, racism, toxic masculinity, etc. Sledge hammer writing, directing, and acting.

by Anonymousreply 143September 27, 2019 1:38 AM

R142 I'm the snob at R139 and I believe that almost anyone can 'mug their way' through a film.

A skilled film director, editor, camera man and groomers can elicit a satisfactory scene from a good-looking half-wit.

But NOT on stage.

by Anonymousreply 144September 27, 2019 1:43 AM

[quote]r139 I don't know how members of the audience can gauge a screen performer to be 'intelligent'.

You don't think Hepburn came across as intelligent in every role she ever played?

It comes across in many performers' natural responses, and in the choices they make.

God.

by Anonymousreply 145September 27, 2019 4:07 AM

The person responsible for the mega-pot-boiler —Edna Ferber— seems to have been a lesbian.

She met Noel Coward at the Algonquin table in the 20s and corresponded with him for the next 35 years.

by Anonymousreply 146September 28, 2019 1:32 AM

From the Houston Chronicle:

[quote]"Some of the details Graham digs up about the leading actors’ personal lives are juicy enough for Confidential magazine, the Hollywood scandal sheet that had Hudson’s agent cutting deals to keep his client out of its pages. Hudson’s homosexuality was an open secret in Hollywood but hardly to the moviegoing public and, Graham notes, gays in the 1950s were about as welcome in public life as communists. Also thanks in part to Confidential, Taylor began the film with one husband and had already met her next one by the time “Giant” premiered in October 1956."

[quote]"But ultimately the film belongs to Dean, which even his harshest critics — namely Stevens and Hudson — would eventually acknowledge. So does Graham’s book; “Lone Star,” the chapter recounting Dean’s background, is twice as long as any of the others. Dean, who was 24 during filming, was obsessed with racing and forever trying to fill the void in his life left by his mother, who died when he was 9. His ambiguous sexuality has proved a source of endless public fascination."

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by Anonymousreply 147September 28, 2019 2:15 AM

Roy Scherer was a cute, handsome man who unfortunately had to use that stupid name 'Rock Hudson'.

He may have been a sweet man but he looks so embarrassingly ineffectual playing a Social Justice Warrior in those scenes in the cafe in what seemed like the last hour of this endlessly long, tedious movie.

by Anonymousreply 148September 28, 2019 4:13 AM

But those last scenes are what make the movie so important to me. Because it’s such a critical part of the Texas story. The fact that the natives were treated like blacks were treated elsewhere. It’s such a uniquely Texas form of racism (well was - thx to Trump) that I had never seen described before in mainstream films of that era. That storyline is basically me and my partner.

by Anonymousreply 149September 28, 2019 3:58 PM

GIANT also had the female empowerment angle via Liz Taylor's character.

by Anonymousreply 150September 28, 2019 4:39 PM

R150, every single novel written by Edna Ferber is a “girl power” tale where the woman not only survives but succeeds where the men fail, and usually abandon the woman.

by Anonymousreply 151September 29, 2019 12:02 AM

R151 yes, Wiki seemed to be suggesting that Ferber’s stuff was mostly girl power or migrant power.

by Anonymousreply 152September 29, 2019 12:04 AM

Wiki suggests Ferber was a lesbian and says her novels "generally feature strong female protagonists' and that the 'not-so-pretty people have the best character" and that three of her works 'Show Boat', 'Saratoga Trunk' and Giant – have been developed into musicals.

So did Mercedes McCambridge plays a lesbian character in this movie?

Variety said the musical version of 'Giant' was humorless, sometimes incoherent with a dark and leaden third act.

by Anonymousreply 153September 29, 2019 4:12 AM

[quote]Bick then shot the animal.

I thought he had to, it was lame when it came home.

That bitch Luz got what she deserved!

by Anonymousreply 154September 30, 2019 2:47 AM

R154 What did she do?

by Anonymousreply 155September 30, 2019 2:06 PM

She was mad at Liz Taylor’s character and went out to show the horse “who was boss,” digging her spurs into his sides, etc.

by Anonymousreply 156September 30, 2019 4:14 PM

Though not shown in the movie it was rather apparent what happened: The horse (War Winds) ended up throwing Luz off her mount because she was being so brutal to the animal and she hit her head which lead to her death that evening.

(And) if you think she dykey in this one, you should see McCambridge in TOUCH OF EVIL. She's barely female in that one.

by Anonymousreply 157September 30, 2019 6:33 PM

Boring movie. Meh!

by Anonymousreply 158September 30, 2019 7:32 PM

Touch of Evil. The next best film about the US /Mexico borderlands. Both great movies. And Touch of Evil also has Marlene Dietrich as a crazy, heavily accented drama queen. Her acting was on par with James Dean in Giant - way over the top and almost as if they are in a different movie than all the other actors.

by Anonymousreply 159September 30, 2019 7:47 PM

Touch of Evil was the only Orson Welles movie that was actually entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 160September 30, 2019 8:06 PM

Classic is a classic is a classic

by Anonymousreply 161September 30, 2019 8:07 PM

Dean could smell another bottom bitch a Texas mile away.

by Anonymousreply 162September 30, 2019 8:13 PM

Incidentally, I used to pronounce the title as 'Re-bell without a Cause' until someone set me straight. But I thought it made more sense as a verb. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

by Anonymousreply 163September 30, 2019 8:24 PM

The fact that Chuck Heston appeared in Orson Welles’ cheap ‘Touch of Evil’ makes me think perhaps he was attempting to be the ‘prestige actor’ that he kept on claiming to be.

After all he went on to finance those two awful Shakespeare movies and that unwatchable remake of ‘A Man for all Seasons’.

by Anonymousreply 164September 30, 2019 9:45 PM

[quote]Her acting was on par with James Dean in Giant - way over the top and almost as if they are in a different movie than all the other actors.

That would be a good idea for a thread: Actors who appear to be acting in a different movie from the rest of the cast. Another example, Vincent Price in His Kind of Woman.

by Anonymousreply 165October 1, 2019 1:14 AM
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