Why was Jackie O. considered a great beauty?

My mom is no fan and always mentions her too-far-apart eyes.

I don’t think so. Women envied the wardrobe and the power she attained through her husband(s) but I don’t think she was ever thought to be a great beauty. Certainly not by men. Has any man ever jerked off to Jackie? Highly, highly unlikely. She was a pleasant enough looking woman with a pleasant figure. Perfect for a man like JFK who no intention of being faithful to his wife and didn’t want a wife who was so attractive that other men would want her.

Truman Capote said her eyes were so far apart they worked independently, like an iguana.

But she could make herself look regal, if not beautiful, because of her innate style and sense of fashion. She also was well-educated and articulate, which go a long way.

Melania should take note.

A man who's considered a 5 is elevated to a 10 when he enters in politics because everyone else is a 1 or 2. Maybe it's the same for first ladies. Look at her predecessors and she's an 11.

She absolutely WAS a great beauty. Not in the conventional sense, which is all you rubes understand. She was one of a kind.

She was only 31 when she became First Lady. Jackie was a very attractive young woman. She had style and class and was a far cry from the matronly and grandmotherly Bess Truman and Mamie Eisenhower of the previous two administrations before JFK. Whether Jackie was a great beauty or not, was beside the point at the time. Some considered her beautiful, but what stood out was that she was a dramatic departure from those who came before her.

She is like Katie Holmes - sometimes beautiful and sometimes wonky in the face, but thin which goes a long way.

Wank some more, R5.

It was the wide set eyes and the fake mid-Atlantic pseudo accent that says "I've been to "finishing school" and now I'm mildly British".

Incredible classic beauty beauty.

She looked like Kristin Davis' retarded cousin.

Really don't like her look when she married JFK. Her make-up and the style and colour of her hair make her look so middle aged in b & w photos. Maybe she looked better in person. Her look when she married Onassis was a huge improvement.

R12 Do you have any idea how long ago that marriage took place? Her look was quite chic for that era.

Same thing with Princess Diana, she wasn't actually all that goodlooking, she was just exceptionally goodlooking for a royal. Jackie would be considered a bit above average if she hadn't married JFK.

She had grace, OP. Not a little, too.

Jackie was a hottie.

Well, I know she wasn't crazy about her wedding dress when she married JFK. Probably going along with what his family wanted.

And which one was/ is a great beauty according to you OP? Melania?

💁 Before we go any further, OP, post a picture of yourself and let us decide who's [italic] UGLEE.

R20 PREACH !!!

She wasn't beautiful. But she was very stylish and was considered "elegant." And stuck up? My God, was she ever! She really was one of those people who believe that they are superior to others who don't have their wealth, their education, their breeding. To use an old expression she believed that her ass was cake.

R9 She was French not British. Bouvier is a French name. Also she studied a few years in Paris.

She was stunning, elegant and classy

lol posting the worst picture of Jackie and badmouthing on her. Typically what a Trumper would do

She was georgous, educated, elegant, very strong and never was a porn star like Melania the Russian agent full of botox.

[quote] Has any man ever jerked off to Jackie?

*ahem*

You have to remember: the three First Ladies who had preceded her were Eleanor Roosevelt, Bess Truman, and Mamie Eisenhower. The contrast made her seem all the more beautiful.

she was a beauty

R27 Bingo!

Ol' gal before her didn't even bother to wear a bra, for fuck's sake.

Jackie was intelligent, naturally curious, well-traveled/well-educated, multilingual and knew how to use her considerable assets to best advantage.  Her chic, understated taste in attire has proven to be classic and timeless and she's still considered a fashion icon to this day.  Those close to her say she was witty, fun/funny and totally charming in private.  Lastly, she gave us JFK, Jr., one of the best-looking men ever, so her DNA can't have been too bad.

Her husband didn't even desire her. She was a whore. She charged for sex or accepted gifts and jewels.

Stop being jealous OP, she was BEAUTIFUL

She was considered a great dresser with great taste. People used to be polite, otherwise they’d have pointed out constantly that she had the face of an ungulate.

She could put on both earrings at once.

Considering that America hadn't experienced an attractive woman as First Lady since Frances Folsom Cleveland, Jackie seemed like Hedy Fucking Lamarr in comparison.

She was a speedfreak.

[quote] Those close to her say she was witty, fun/funny and totally charming in private.

And others close to her say she was bitchy, snobbish, pretentious and greedy.

She was beautiful but thought her shit didn't stink.

You could park a Buick in between her eyes.

She was stylish and a trendsetter; not necessarily conventionally beautiful.

Rose and the Kennedy gals made fun of her running the water in the bathroom sink when she had to tinkie or poo-poo.

Melania Trump

Bethenny Frankel is prettier. They look alike.

Melania Trump

Melania Trump

Melania Trump

She wasn't.

JFK would leave Jackie for Melania and who could blame him?

Melania Trump

R49 keep dreaming

[R3] I don't recall Truman saying that about her eyes, but I think it was make-up artist supreme, George Masters, who said her eyes were so far apartment that when she entered a room, one eye was on one side of the room and the other eye was on the opposite wall--or something like that.

That ain't Melania at R50

Melania Trump the most dirty ugly first lady EVER

What's up with all these Megalania pics?! You know, as unnatural-looking and scary as she is she is still more conventionally attractive as Jackie was.

I actually think that 5 out of 6 last FLOTUSes looked rather good (with that one big exception being Bar Bush, of course). There were no great beauties among them and they all looked kind of boring but it seems that days of truly unattractive Vairst Letties are now nothing but a distant memory.

Jackie was about a generation younger than the previous First Ladies.

Eat your heart out Melanie.

Jackie and Ari's wedding invitation.

R55 Melania wasn't and will never be as attractive, as educated, as elegant as Jackie, you IQ low retarded dumbass Trumper, EVER

R58 and R59 ALL photoshoped poor you, so lonely so ridiculous, so pathetic

It was her style people loved, OP. All the First Ladies before her dressed matronly.

Jackie O is considered a great beauty, while Melania is considered a great whore.

[quote] I actually think that 5 out of 6 last FLOTUSes looked rather good (with that one big exception being Bar Bush, of course). There were no great beauties among them and they all looked kind of boring but it seems that days of truly unattractive Vairst Letties are now nothing but a distant memory.

Unless a certain somebody gets his way, in which case they'll have to rename the West Wing "Caftan Way"

Jackie is the only First Lady to have a Franklin Mint portrait doll made of her.

R57 she wasn't working for playboy, paparazzis took these pics. R58 even a 5 yo would recognize photoshop. Melania was and still A RUSSIAN WHORE that your orange buffon chose it on a Russian website. You look desperate, so desperate. Im going to leave here you talking alone. Seems like it's usual for you. Bye bye cockroach

I asked my mom the same thing, she just says it was so wonderful to have a young family in the White House

Jackie was always in fashion.

I agree OP. I always thought she was ugly. Especially older. Those teeth!

What r6. After Eleanor Roosevelt, Bess Truman and Mamie Eisenhower (the Frumpiest Frump of the 20th Century) Jackie was like a goddess from Mount Olympus. She was sensational after so many years of older matronly First Ladies.

Mammy Eisenhower

What's weird is that after Jackie, many of the later First Ladies were quite pretty too: Pat Nixon, Rosalynn Carter, Nancy Reagan, Laura Bush, Michelle Obama...

^^^😂 You funny..

r12 the 50s fashions and hairstyles were very aging. Even women in their 20s looked like middle-aged matrons because of those styles.

The photographer who took that iconic candlelight pic at R31 recently died at the age of ninety-something.

She was well-educated, well-spoken, stylish and striking. She charmed and dazzled world leaders. She helped inspire us, in a stodgy, dowdy time.

She was a chain smoker which was kept secret while she was First Lady. White House photographers were ordered to never snap her in the act of puffing and if, by accident, they captured her doing so the pictures were banned from public release.

More remarkably, the commercial photographers who regularly captured her on film as she went about her private business adhered to an unwritten rule of not publishing images of the First Lady smoking.

Wide-set eyes are generally considered to be attractive, but to a degree. JO's eyes were so far apart that it gave her this bug-eyed look that all too-wide-eyed people have. Then you combine that with her very square jaws and it takes her from a woman with striking looks to someone who looks stunning in a half-beautiful/ half-ugly way. Photogenic with the right angles but a great beauty? No.

Jackie had wide-set eyes; JFK had close-set eyes.

R1 My mom was a fan and always mentioned her far-apart eyes.

She had fetal alcohol syndrome.

Jackie was smart and talented. When she and Lee stayed in Paris in 1951 they illustrated a book about their adventures. It is charming.

Here's one of the illustrations by Jackie.

One Special Summer by Jackie and Lee Bouvier.

She smoked practically until the end. Amazing how few times she was caught with a cig in her hand by photographers.

What the hell is she wearing here?

Sexy photo of Mamie Eisenhower upthread. I wonder if Mamie and Dwight had sex regularly or if Mamie had to resort to pleasuring herself or lezzing out with the VP's wife.

Well she had something because y'all still talking about her 25 years after her death

She was beautifully styled, though I’m not sure that was 100% on her. Great brows. Her eyes were way too far apart though, like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome wide.

R79, too bad we can't get our moms together. That could have been entertaining.

R3 Her eyes were as far apart as this guy.

She followed 3 old bats, Eleanor and Bess and Mamie. She was 31 at the time. No surprise she was thought to be beautiful.

She had that little girl voice that the wife in 'Downton Abbey' has.

Most of you probably weren't even born or were far too young to remember the Jackie era.

Yet, somehow, you all know so much.........

We know so much about her because there were so many glossy TV shows proclaiming that she and her husband were Lady Guinevere and King Arthur in a perfect dream world called New Camelot.

The TV shows seemed to ignore the fact her husband was an Irish philanderer.

Was she though? I was born later but I remember people like her more for her fashion and glamor, but I also remember Joan Rivers saying she looked like E.T. Her eyes are pretty freakish.

She was more lovely than beautiful..

Another sexy photo of Mamie. Millions of straight guys in the 50s must've jerked off to this.

Another sexy photo of Mamie. Millions of straight guys in the 50s must've jerked off to this.

Jackie looked great, but she wasn’t a great beauty. Except for the candlelight shot, the good photos of her are straight on, unsmiling studio shots with perfect lighting. She had nice full lips (probably why she looks best not smiling) and a great head of hair. But IMO, she wasn’t even pretty. There is something unfeminine about her face, even though she was otherwise very feminine and ladylike. Also, I don’t think she had great skin. The color seems off to me. Sort of a grayish pallor.

I think the similarities between the Bouvier sisters and Middleton sisters are interesting. Flat chested brown eyed unexotic brunettes. But all thin. Kate is the only one who could be called beautiful, and the only one who doesn’t need to be a size 2 or have 5% body fat to look great. She was stunning with the additional 20 pounds or so she had on her frame as a university student.

What do people have against eastern block hookers? Melania was born in a communist country in the 60’s and played the hand she was dealt. Her implants are too big now and the fillers are giving her a weird cat face, but 30 years ago she was a knockout and no other First Lady has ever been a knockout. If you think she’s evil for supporting her husband, that’s a different story. I suspect she isn’t classy or sophisticated. To me it looks like she is playing dress up in her First Lady outfits. And she’s starting to ruin her looks with the fillers. But comparing her and Jackie at their primes is ridiculous. Maybe Melania wouldn’t be brought home to meet mom, but looks-wise she leaves Jackie in the dust.

I have to agree that younger Melania really was beautiful—this was around the time she married Dump. She had some surgeries beforehand that helped. But now she’s overfilled and tightened so much that she’s looking freakish. I wonder how she looks in the mirror and doesn’t see that—sort of like how Michael Jackson kept wanting a thinner nose.

I agree that Megalania was at her most attractive in the late 90s but even then she was hardly a knockout: she always had that dead look in her eyes and her high forehead and weird hairline looked ugly as well (I think she knows that too, which is why her wigs seem to always cover that part of her face these days).

You rarely hear her actually speak. It's striking that she speaks with the exact same accent and voice as her cousin, "Little" Edie Beale. I guess they went to the same finishing school. They even use the same turns of phrase, like stating something, and then saying "You undahstand."

Go watch Jackie's tour of the White House, and then any film of Little Edie. It's almost hard to take Jackie seriously because of it.

r95 is correct.

R30 Wow. Ike should be given a free pass for his extra-marital romps. Who'd ever want to fuck Mamie?

Jackie’s style that Melania Trump tried to emulate at the inauguration

R96 R97 R103

I was in the best-dressed list.

Mamie-bangs were my trademark.

She clearly wasn't beautiful, but she was young and very stylish and seemed quite glamorous on the heels of Eleanor and Bess and Mamie. For 30 years, the First Ladies had all been frumps (though Eleanor was in a class of her own, she transcended the need for physical beauty), so the bar was very low.

I've always wondered why JFK was always spoken of as handsome when he wasn't at all. None of the Kennedys were except John, Jr.

What the FUCK was Jackie O thinking? Sunbathing nude? She, one of the most famous women in the world, dogged by photographers everywhere, and she goes outside naked? Was she that big of an idiot? Or did she, in her superior and haughty fashion, think to herself "no one would DARE photograph me like this?" At any rate those nude photos of her are very unfortunate. She had an ugly body. And she was no beauty. She was just younger than previous first ladies and was a fashion plate.

R107, it really wasn’t like today, where truly photographers are up your asshole. The paps were a problem but She was on her own private island, she probably thought no one would be able to take photos. The lucky photographer had a very strong telephoto lens. These are really the only embarrassing pap photos ever taken of her.

She was sunbathing on Skorpios. She probably thought she wouldn’t be photographed on Onassis’ private island. Skorpios and The Christina were a big reason she decided to marry Onassis-they provided privacy and security.

As for why the Kennedys were seen as attractive-remember, he was the first president born in the 20th century. Compared to his elderly predecessors, he looked like a movie star. He also had a stylish wife and two cute kids-they were perfectly packaged as the ideal young family-never mind that he was sick and a philanderer and she was snobbish and out of touch with middle America. They were aspirational.

The scariest thing about those naked pics of Jackie O. is that mullet on her head.

Perhaps she wasn't drop-dead gorgeous. She had style. She made people who met her feel at ease and intimate. She could talk to anyone and everyone and make them feel she was paying attention. She reflected people's hopes and dreams and desires. She was seen as a good, loyal wife and a good mother. No hit of scandal with Jacqueline. Women liked and related to her.

Like so many influential women, Jackie wasn’t beautiful. She didn’t need to be; she wasn’t a hooker or a “fashion model.” She was interesting: she had style and charisma, she had a mystique.

R106 and R109 put things in good context and perspective. They are neither unkind or sycophants. Thank you.

I completely forgot that JFK was the first president born in the 20th century.

Why will no one point out that she seemed more beautiful following on the heels of Eleanor Roosevelt, Bess Truman, and Mamie Eisenhower?

Jackie was well-aware that photographers were relentless and ubiquitous. She famously sued Ron Galella.

Are you a Jackie or a Marilyn?

R107 The story behind those nude photos is that Onassis himself arranged for that photographer to sneak on the island and take them to humiliate her. He had grown tired and angry over Jackie's high-handed behavior toward him. He was preparing to divorce her before he died at 69.

Wow Ron Galella was a dick. He definitely put their lives at risk with his antics, if the story posted at r116 is true. I just through he was a nuisance and Jackie was being a little thin skinned, but jumping in front of Caroline while she was riding her bike, causing her to veer into traffic, was reckless. Looks like the paps today took their playbook from him.

"Smash His Camera!," the number about Ron Galella from the opera "Jackie O" by Wayne Koestenbaum and Michael Daugherty. (The other character with Jackie is Maria Callas.)

Was Mamie the First Lady with cans of parsley potatos?

Yes she was r121. DL has had a bunch of Mamie threads, and they were all great.

For those who were pouring shit on the wedding dress, there is an explanation. Joe paid for it and insisted that it be that one. Jackie hated it, but I think Joe was paying for the whole wedding, so she went along.

She was young, stylish and self-possessed. You can never underestimate the latter in making a person seem attractive.

In the 80s, when people used to analyse you by "season" to tell you what color to wear, and by "outlook" to tell you what style, I read one of these experts on Jackie. They pointed out that the clothes she wore as First Lady were "sophisticate" and largely "winter" colors (eg elaborate hairdos, hats, sheaths, icy or jewel colors), whereas she looked her best dressed and with her hair "natural" and in autumn colors (eg pants and polo necks in browns, tweeds, greens and oranges). This is true, and I could never un-see it afterwards. Compare R5's photo with R33's.

[quote] For those who were pouring shit on the wedding dress,

She had a great sense of style---for a whore. I read somewhere that her mother Janet actually told Jackie that she was homely (!) compared to Lee, with the coarse-looking hair, and big nose. Perhaps Jackie's larger features, side eyes, and full lips made her far more photogenic than her sister. Lee was pretty and kind of elegant looking---but Jackie with her size 10 feet, tall and slim boyish figure just pulled it all off so much better. She acted like a beauty---and created an illusion right there.

As for JFK, he looked pretty good for his age ---with a great head of hair, nice chiseled lips, slim build. He probably looked a lot more handsome in person as he got so much pussy (and probably dick) throughout his life. To the day he died, he still had a mistress (or more?). We haven't had a president since who was that sexy.

R115, And with Lady Bird as Second Lady . . .

She had dominant hair, that was very important to her look.

[quote] To the day he died, he still had a mistress (or more?).

What a hero!

At least she made one hot man.

Huh? She didn't create anyone in a lab. And junior was dumb as a post. He murdered two people.

That Jackie O opera is ridiculous and embarrassing

She had a massive and humongously hairy stink-hole!

R123 "For those who were pouring shit on the wedding dress"

Oh no! Brown on white.

Jack- lean ran the tap in the bathroom when she poured shit so we couldn't hear her nuggets dropping into the water. The queen of Camelot never farted!

We were with a fabulous eldersister looking at some photos of Jackie when eldersister exclaimed: "Look at her with those Jews....no wonder Rose won't have anything to do with her"!

"For those who were pouring shit on the wedding dress, there is an explanation. Joe paid for it and insisted that it be that one. Jackie hated it, but I think Joe was paying for the whole wedding, so she went along."

I don't think Joe Kennedy "insisted that it be that one." He did want the wedding to be traditional and that went for the wedding dress too. Jackie didn't like it; she wanted something more modern. But I think the wedding dress was gorgeous. Most people think it was. The creator of the dress, an African American woman named Ann Lowe, never got the credit (or money) she deserved for creating the wedding dress of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy. She and her staff worked their asses off to create the dress and averted disaster by working through eight days (the original time was eight weeks) to reconstruct the gowns and get them delivered on time when a flood destroyed the wedding dress and nine of the bridal party's dresses. Instead of an estimated $700 profit, Lowe lost $2,200 on the project. When asked who created her wedding gown, the snobbish, snotty Jackie dismissed Lowe by answering "a colored woman."

[quote] At least she made one hot man.

Too bad she didn't make a smart one. He'd still be around if she had.

Gross R136. I don't like Jackleen. Never did. She loved money but didn't treat people well. There are no lovely stories about Jackie O being a kind, funny, warm or generous person. Just gracious and refined. And very greedy.

What's wrong with wide-set eyes?

She was well-known for her language skills. She recorded a television campaign ad in Spanish. She spoke some Italian and German. She was articulate, educated and interesting.

She was the most cultured and educated First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt.

Back then, people admired a first lady who was intelligent, educated, stylish and spoke French.

Now she would be looked down on as an "elitist".

Sad.

Toothless pillbillies and knuckle dragging buffoons aspire to be Eastern block whores who have to fake education.

The 60‘s era and it’s style really suited her. Today she would be called ugly.

[quote] She was the most cultured and educated First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt.

Eleanor Roosevelt was not well-educated.

Michelle Obama was a more impressive, accomplished and admirable first lady in every way.

She could wear clothes and she was stylish.

She was an inspiration to us. She showed so much dignity at a very ugly time. That's why her later marriage was so controversial.

Maybe she should be cut some slack for what happened in the back of that limousine in Dallas.

R147, What about me?

Frances Cleveland was younger and prettier when she became First Lady.

Aspirational? My bush is bigger and bushier any day of the week!

No, R109, she perpetuated that impression of marrying for security. The real reason was for money. It's been discussed on many other Jackie threads here.

I would agree with R140. She was very European. I do however see the froggy and FAS allusions too, but many with less than perfect features can make themselves very attractive.

she reminds me of her asian cousin, Ug Lee.

Frances Cleveland had a fairly edgy lewk for the 1880s. She was credited with helping the bustle go out of style.

Frankie C's wedding gown

In some photos she is beautiful, just not in a covergirl kind of way. Besides great looks, she was extremely bright, but because of her era she downplayed it for the male gender. She spoke several languages and above all knew the trick to captivate men. Lets face it it worked. She landed JFK for better or worse and the same thing for Onassis . SHe was at one time nicknamed the billion dollar bush. There was a reason for that.

Little known fact: Frances Cleveland had a private party trick where she would lift up her gown and petticoats and make her vagina lips say, "Paaarkaaaay."

Later, a margarine was named in her honor.

You must have searched and searched to find the worst picture you could of her, OP.

She also had ugly hands, that's why she always wore gloves.

R159, And huuuuuge clodhoppers.

Her face looked like a wall-eyed pike to me.

R125, I get the impression Janet played Jackie and Lee off against each other. Lee said in interviews that Janet told her she wasn't as pretty as Jackie, but I've heard that Janet said the opposite to Jackie. Neither of Jackie's parents ever come across well in any books about the Kennedy family.

R162, Well, Joe and Rose don't come across as Ozzie and Harriet in any books about the Kennedy family either.

R161, What about the crooked yellow teeth?

Age progression

She needed a head reduction.

They compared her to Eleanor Roosevelt.

"They compared her to Eleanor Roosevelt."

Nobody EVER compared to Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor Roosevelt spent her life working for civil rights, among other causes. She worked hard on behalf of others, something Jackie NEVER did. All Jackie did was wear pretty clothes and spend lots of money.

Jackie attended Eleanor's funeral . . .

r141 isn't it a shame? Being cultured and intelligent in our modern culture is considered elitist and snobby. Look at our celebrities today - mostly lowest common denominator garbage.

Eleanor Roosevelt worked as a volunteer teacher for immigrant children (many of whom worked in factories, like their parents) on the Lower East Side starting when she was 18. From 1920 onward she worked to raise money for the Women's Trade Union League, and to fight for labor reform laws related to fair wages and working hours, and employing minors. She herself later became a union member as a journalist. As First Lady, she was a very vocal supporter of civil rights and organized labor. Her formal education ended with finishing school, but throughout her adult life she used her position of privilege to continue to educate herself and to help others. She was one of a kind.

The three first ladies before Jackie were Eleanor Roosevelt, Bess Truman, and Mamie Eisenhower.

Jackie looked like Suzy Parker compared to those old cows.

(Pic is Bess & Eleanor w/ Edith Wilson)

Jackie may have had FAS, but John Jr. was a piece of MEAT.

She looked statuesque and almost pretty standing next to a frumpy man in a dress.

She was crude looking, ugly really.

She was not naturally beautiful, but she was regal in appearance and impeccable in how she carried herself, which is a kind of beauty in and of itself.

Looks like the DL maiden aunts brigade. R172

She could be beautiful and elegant photographed with her mouth closed. But her teeth were crooked. I’m surprised as vain and arrogant as Jackie was she didn’t get her teeth fixed at some point.

On the beach after playing with baby Caroline in the water - completely natural. I say she was a pretty woman with a unique appearance and manner.

Poor Frances Cleveland had no wrists...sad

She'd probably agree with a lot of you re her looks. If, however, more people wanted to label her as being beautiful then she wasn't going to argue with them about it. In the end, she really didn't give a fuck.

She used what she had (slightly above average looks, sharp intelligence and enormous discipline, stayed slim all her life) to get what she wanted(money). Gore Vidal filled in the details in his memoir. My favorite Jackie o story is the Jackie O yanking a check out of Christina O's hand incident. Don't fuck with Jackie's money.

R144 Michelle Obama is by far the scariest and and most terifying first lady ever.

Your grammar is scarier, r183.

R183 how fitting.

I seem to remember a story about a young Jackie saying that her primary goal was to be attractive to men...

R186, Something wrong with that?

[quote]Michelle Obama is by far the scariest and and most terifying first lady ever.

Not as scary as you, you fucking racist pig. Go die, painfully, in a grease fire.

Great pic!

I look forward to the photos showing OP's STUNNING beauty.

R188 haha, says the one who can’t help but pull the race card .... ;-)

R188 just keep worshiping you ‚‘goddess‘ ;-)

Michelle Obama is the most admired woman in the world.

Michelle Obama is fine. She's an attractive woman.

Michelle is not that attractive, and saying that is not racist, as much as R188 wishes it was. Neither was Jackie, but both of them carried themselves elegantly, which is what people expect of First Ladies.

R193 By whom? You think the US is the world? You think the Chinese people think admire her?

R195 I don’t agree that Michelle is elegant. She chose some nice designer to dress her but from the neck up it was never great. She is also the only first lady I can think of that has rumors about being a man. That’s what makes her scary, as well as her facial expressions.

R189, Airbrush much?

Michelle Obama looked her worst on Trump's Inauguration Day.

Peggy Olson was supporting those Mamie Eisenhower bangs during S1 of Mad Men.

Yeah, we all did, r199.

No but she had class.

Her mom put her daughters on the stroll, basically telling them to get a man ( with money) ASAP. The girls had been raised with money in a horsey/private school/ debutant world but they were not wealthy and you can see how Big Edie and Little Edie's life of squalor underscored Janet's point.  Jackie O aspired to have the limitless wealth of Bunny Mellon and she achieved this through her marriage to Onassis.

[quote]Michelle Obama looked her worst on Trump's Inauguration Day.

Not by accident. She was magnificent in her disapproval.

R199 R204 I don’t know, girls. Her face always looks busted and strung out to me.

Her "Klute" look was a mistake.

Jackie Kennedy was an aspirational whore. Quite ugly by today's standards. There is no thread that claims Michelle Obama is a great beauty. She's a fine woman of great accomplishment and personal integrity. Her husband loves her, as does the world. She contributes to society and celebrates where she came from. She's funny and real and tells the truth. She's inspirational.

R207, Nice hearing from you, Grandma Robinson.

Jackie wasn't stunning and she knew it, but she MADE herself quite attractive through clothes, grooming, deportment, class, and by saying nothing.

R209 absolutely. There is a strength in being quiet, and Jackie had that. Oftentimes the loudest people are the most insecure and the most boring.

Jackie was considered a greater beauty than Elizabeth Taylor and Marilyn Monroe when she was First Lady. She was a phenomenon.

Powerful men found Jackie irresistible.

Jackie was not prettier than Marilyn or Liz Taylor. She had a more "grown-up" cultural currency and a pedigree, but she was not naturally prettier than either of those women—and this is coming from someone who thinks Marilyn's looks are vastly overrated. Looks are not everything though, so, as you say, there were obviously many men who found her magnetic.

Marilyn and Liz were classless pigs

R214 And Jackie wasn't?

R213, Marilyn had her nose and chin done.

Both Jackie and Lee had the crooked baby sized teeth, but neither of their parents did.

Jackie had class enough to act properly and keep her mouth shut. Liz and Marilyn didn't care and told the world how fucked up and needy they were.

Lee's ugly teeth . . .

Frances Cleveland was considered beautiful in her day.

Frances Cleveland was considered beautiful in her day.

Would you please get off Frances Cleveland's dick?

I've never posted about Frances Cleveland until now.

R188 I went searching for more details on the ‘Jackie O grabbing a check out of Christina’s hand’ story and found this hit piece from1979 instead. Pretty juicy. And in the Washington Post, no less.

That article Is nasty and stinks of envy. Did one of you old bitches write it?

Frances Cleveland is a classless cunt.

Sorry, R221/R223. Meet R2D2...

We have a Frances Cleveland troll. Only on DL!

Helen Lawson wrote that shit of a hit piece!

Helen Lawson writes for shit! "beck and call"

**snort**

R244, so many fucking typos in that blurb

" She was definitely not his type of woman. Maria Cellas was, and he continued to see her. It was obvious that a man of his intellect and wide interests would become bored with Jackie's shallow life, her wild extravagance, her pretentiousness."

I can see that Maria Callas would be a better fit for Ari Onassis than Jackie—more shared background and all.

I remember one journalist described his first impression of meeting Jackie was a person with a large head on a small body. Like a bobble head doll. Her features were described as "Negroid" and she apparently liked to wear those stylish kid gloves, normally white, to cover her "large mannish hands".

My god, the Kennedy haters are still such bitter, envious little twerps. You sound like the Nixon tapes.

Yeah, Jackie Kennedy was soooooooo ugly. Sure thing.

R233, worse than that, mom Janet had Jewish ancestry

Onassis purchased Jackie, she wasn't cheap, literally and figuratively .

R236 Why did he want her. Just for prestige? He could have bought any other more beautiful more elegant more sophisticated woman.

What was it Jackie used to say? (I'm sure it wasn't original)

The first husband you marry for love. The second husband you marry for security. The third husband you marry for companionship.

She had an upper-class education so she "sounded" bright. Her French was good, she was taught to make herself attractive to men just as all women were in those days, particularly upper class women. She had style and carried herself gracefully. I can't imagine that poor Melanie will ever have any style and she moves like a lumberjack.

Aristotle Onassis was actually a sister!

Ari and Jackie did look alike. Maybe they were sisters.

At that time there was no woman in the world more elegant, famous and sought after than the unattainable Jackie Kennedy.

Onassis was a thug. Married to the most famous woman in the world, the tragic, classy and beautiful Widow Kennedy, he bought himself a measure of respectability and fame he hadn't had before. Unfortunately, he realized that he didn't want what he got after he'd gotten it.

He wanted his opera singing girlfriend and his buddies and maybe some souvlaki and dolmas.

R238 Melania has the statue of a goddess, though. Jackie had the statue of a toad.

R238 Melania has the statue of a goddess, though. Jackie had the statue of a toad.

It’s a “royals” sensibility. She carried herself gracefully, with dignity. She was calm and mannered, her voice was mildly pleasant. All of that contributed to the way people saw her and thought of her. There’s a reason they call the Kennedy marriage Camelot. A great deal of it is the fable created by their culture, and there’s no telling how much of the facade was real. Yet the public does love to buy into and co-create such things, as with the tragic tale of Diana, driven to madness and ultimately killed by public adoration.

Someone above said “no one ever jerked off to Jackie O,” but the notions of “First Lady” and “beauty” together do not add up to a porn star (sorry, Melania). They add up to someone who looks unique enough to be iconic, well finished with clear skin and bright eyes and styled well, but not with great big silicone globes stuck to her chest and a fake tan.

Camelot was Jacquie's reinvention of her marriage after JFK's death. When your husband dies for screwing over the mob, it's best to sing show tunes.

R174 Basically what you see there is the 60s splitting off from the 50s, in fashion terms. Jackie looks so crisp and modern.

It's funny how today she's mostly referred to as the diginified "Jacqueline Kennedy." Growing up, we knew her as the more fabulous jetsetting Jackie Onassis.

I dimly recall some song about "I want to wear glasses, like Jackie Onassis."

She's the whore who bores. There was nothing special about her. She knew enough to keep her mouth shut. So a lot of positive qualities were projected onto her. But not even her best friends can think of anything good to say about her.

R212 I imagine Jackie could be extremely flirtatious in a dinner party situation. Imagine, she trains those eyes on you and purrs in that voice....must have been hypnotic.

I thought Katie Holmes of all people captured that quality of Jackie well in that Kennedy miniseries.

R249, Natalie Portman was outstanding in "Jackie".

R248, Well, at least one can.

I saw it R250, and must respectfully disagree. I thought it was a one-note "depressed Jackie" performance. And her wig was terrible!

She had fetal alcohol syndrome face, but her wardrobe was drool-worthy.

Otherwise, I never got the appeal myself. Now her son John-John on the other hand, made my eyes hurt he was so perfect.

The Kennedys: After Camelot had some fun scenes of Katie being "carefree, spendthrift, Jetset Jackie" during the Onassis years. I can't find any good clips, but you can get a few glimpses here, starting around 30 seconds in. Katie really captured a certain Jackie-ness, perhaps because she's a little mysterious and has married for curious reasons herself.

In the OPs, original picture Jackie looks like a farm animal receiving surprise anal.

"Jackie" is a fantastic film. And Portman took great risks in it. She deserves much more praise for her interpretation. It's stylized, that's the way to do it. I've seen the film 4 times and I don't like Jackie Kennedy. It's not meant to be a direct biography, it's an exploration of historical character and myth. And it's fascinating. Perhaps that's why some object to it.

When I was a little kid in the 1960s, we had this portrait on the kitchen wall. Irish-Italian Massachusetts Catholics, what can I say. Seeing it online brings back a lot of very early memories for me, a time and place so long ago.

I distinctly remember thinking Jackie looked odd and sort of ugly. But now I think she was beautiful.

R256 all respect to the filmmakers, I just remember a lot of sad faces and depressing music.

[quote]Expressionist take on Jacqueline Kennedy in the aftermath of JFK’s murder is fueled by an amazing, go-for-broke performance.

****

[quote]With her breathy vowels and strangely stagey expressions, I confess that Portman’s mannered performance seemed at first too arch to be engaging. Only on second viewing did I realise that her Jackie was not alienating but alienated. Scenes of her wandering the cavernous rooms and corridors of the White House (brilliantly recreated by production designer Jean Rabasse) reminded me of the Overlook hotel from The Shining. Whatever else it may be, this is a ghost story;

[quote]Rather, it’s the first eerie, keening notes of the score by Mica Levi that put our fears to rest, even as everything else is set tinglingly on edge: No director who’d choose Levi, the young British experimental musician who gave “Under the Skin” its haunting siren’s wail, to aurally steer his film has any plans to play it safe. Coolly handsome as the film is, it’s a collation of aesthetic choices that push us persistently and ever-so-subtly into the discomfort zone. Sebastián Sepúlveda edits it into non-sequential shards of memory, jaggedly disarranged in the manner of post-traumatic consciousness, while cinematographer Stéphane Fontaine’s searching close-ups repeatedly step an inch too far into its subject’s already frail personal space.

R252, Jackie wore some horrible wigs as FLOTUS, like the one she wore during her famous White House tour.

Every woman wore horrible wigs back then. They only look bad to our eyes, in those days they were fashionable.

Jackie had thin hair, especially in her latter years

....

Jackie had thin hair? That’s a new one for me. Maybe in her old age, sure, but pretty sure she always had a lion’s mane.

I never saw her in person, but I saw Lee on the street once. It was in the early 90s and she had a huge bouffant teased up like cotton candy. I think they were both big teasers.

People have a lot of boring, bland, cookie cutter impressions of what "great beauty" means. Sophia Loren is a great beauty and none of her features work individually.

Jackie Kennedy was considered a great beauty of her time because she was a great beauty of her time.

I don't know about "great" beauty but she was pretty.

And look who they were comparing her with: Eleanor, Mim and Bess.

"Why was Jackie O. considered a great beauty?"

People were uglier back then.

"Sophia Loren is a great beauty and none of her features work individually."

Ditto for Audrey Hepburn.

Yes op. It’s her eyes.

....

She was of her time.

One of my favorite findings among the many books I've read:

While still a Senator, JFK pissed Jackie off one too many times without her seeking some revenge of some sort. Often times, her modus operandi would be to do something which would piss him off in return. Bear in mind, she's supposed to play the role of the prim and proper Senator's wife with sights set upon the Presidency.....

They attended some high brow black tie event together and when they arrived at the venue some lackey took her coat from her as the mass of other patrons GASPED at what they saw. Typically self-absorbed, JFK thought all the attention had been directed toward him until his wife turned and sauntered away from him. It was then that he saw it: Jackie had worn a tight fitting evening gown with a completely revealing back cut out to the top of her ass crack! GO GIRL!

How a year in Paris, France transformed Jacqueline Bouvier!

She had GRACE. grace isn’t somethig you can pick up at the market!

Grace? LOL She was a pretentious whore, darlin'!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

True R279. And once she became the "widder Kennedy", she got to fuck Bobby, knowing full well that crazy Ethel would find out about it. What a nasty piece of work she was.

Christie's is conducting an auction of Lee Radziwill's stuff.

It wasn't facial attraction so much. It was her eloquent manner and her fashion tastes back then. She was a young First Lady, from an elite family, and fairly fluent in multiple languages.

Christina onassis gave her a $26 million dollar settlement from her father's estate supposedly just to get rid of her.

She'd finally obtained everything she ever wanted. Extreme wealth, which $26 million dollars was a massive fortune in the 1970s.

Good for her.

I thought she had a face like smallpox.

It's relative to her role. For first ladies she was a beauty.

R283

True to her background and breeding Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis was a cold, calculating high riding bitch when it came to money from her late husband's estate.

Onassis was in fact beginning (or would shortly) proceedings to divorce Jackie Kennedy. It had been all very exciting or whatever in the beginning but even Greek multi-millionaire shipping tycoons apparently don't have unlimited funds, and do have limits. Jackie O's spendthrift ways were getting on her husband's nerves (among other things), and likely egged on by Christina a decision was made Madame Onassis had to go. Turning point also was likely influenced by Alexander Onassis's death. Christina didn't miss a beat blaming that event on "bad luck" brought into the family by Jackie who had left a trail of death behind her in USA.

Ted Kennedy accompanied Jackie to the funeral, and he started in on Christina before Mr. Onassis was cold in his grave. As they were leaving cemetery (TK, JO and Christina) , the former fired first opening salvo; stating it was "time to discuss Jackie's inheritance". To say Christina Onassis was livid is putting things mildly. CO had always seen her step-mother as a greedy, grasping, fortune hunter; but now this, not even out of the cemetery and all the Kennedy's could think about was money.

At one point Christina got so fed up with Ted Kennedy and Jackie she had the procession stopped, got out of current car, and went into another in order to get away from both.

Turns out Jackie got more, far more out of Christina than either her late husband's will provided, and or what she would have received had the divorce gone through. When asked why she was being so generous towards a woman she detested Christina replied it was worth any amount of money never to see Jackie Kennedy again.

Someday, probably after Caroline Kennedy's time someone is going to do a film or mini series about the *real* Jackie Kennedy, warts and all. Not just the pity party with occasional off tidbits thrown in for balance.

^^^ Great article

She had style and glamor. She also came along after the dowdy and unstylish Mamie Eisenhower (a DL fave), the frumpy and truly Washington hating Bess Truman and horse-faced Eleanor Roosevelt, who made best dressed list but didn't really carry off stylish clothing well. Of course, she dazzled. She knew what to wear and how to wear it. Other than Roosevelt, her immediate predecessors had no interest in the arts---it gave her sophistication on top of the style.

That in a nutshell summed things up.

Even JFK's father realized that Jackie's French Catholic background and associations with that culture would not only put his son over, but an invaluable asset. Rest of the Kennedy clan may have detested Jackie (especially the Kennedy women), but like it or not she raised that family up from shanty lace curtain Irish. Joe Kennedy's background ( which included bootlegging and whore mongering) certainly needed a distraction.

Truth to tell Joe Kennedy spent a good part of his life prior to his son's successes trying to upmarket his family. Jackie Bouvier brought north east charm, grace and posh to "fly over" country in an era when most Americans still never traveled further than say 100 mile radius from their homes.

[quote]r61 It was her style people loved, OP. All the First Ladies before her dressed matronly.

Jacqueline Kennedy was also a product of the 1950s, when the real ideal of day-to-day women was to [italic]fit in,[/italic] to appeal to men without overwhelming or upstaging them.

So, she was attractive without being overly threatening. (Personally, I think she was a pain and a whore, but she did her job well for a few years, there.)

That rat's nest beehive hairstyle helped kill off hats for ladies, leading Joanne to famously quip by 1970 in Company "does anyone still wear, a hat"?

Boy, to have been a fly on the wall for THAT meeting! MM didn't usually wear clothes around the house, or a hotel room. I like the idea of Queen Jackie showing up in one of her tight ass Oleg Cassini creations while Marilyn lazed around with her splayed, unbleached muff on display, downing martinis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[bold]Inside Jackie Kennedy's Showdown With Husband's Mistress Marilyn Monroe![/bold] (radar online)

[italic]When Marilyn Monroe died on Aug. 5, 1962 of a “probable suicide” due to barbiturates, she took many secrets to the grave—including her showdown with lover John F. Kennedy‘s wife Jackie! The screen goddess was embroiled in affairs with both married JFK and his brother Bobby during her troubled life that ended at age 36. At one point, Jackie confronted the actress about her husband!

As GLOBE reported in 2012, author Darwin Porter’s book, Marilyn at Rainbow’s End revealed that Monroe was totally smitten with JFK and they first made love in 1946. They reconnected at a Beverly Hills party in 1954, when JFK was married to Jackie, and Monroe was wed to baseball star Joe DiMaggio, according to the book. JFK and Monroe resumed their affair and she had dreams of being First Lady one day, Porter wrote. The playboy politician even invited Monroe to the home he shared with Jackie in Virginia, the book stated.

In "These Few Precious Days: The Final Year of Jack with Jackie", author Christopher Andersen quoted the late actor Peter Lawford, who married JFK’s sister Patricia in 1954, as saying Monroe called Jackie to confess to the affair and to tell her that her husband had already agreed to leave his family and set up a home with the actress. But Jackie became First Lady after JFK won the Presidency and in July 1962, about a month before Monroe’s death, Porter wrote, JFK’s wife requested a meeting with the star.

Monroe had been threatening to go public with her affairs with JFK and RFK—and Jackie wanted to put a stop to that during their meeting at New York’s Carlyle Hotel. “Jackie begged Marilyn not to publicly humiliate her children in front of the world,” Porter wrote in his book. “She also pleaded with Marilyn not to make John Jr. and Caroline the victims of a divorce.”

Monroe reportedly promised she’d never spill the beans—not knowing she only had days left to live.

That $20 or $26 million Jackie got was handled well, her estate at time of death was valued at around $43 million. Peanuts today compared to some tech and other fortunes, but not too bad when you consider Jackie Bouvier's starting out point.

Caroline has it all now;

For your girls that like lurid reading, final will and testament of Jackie Kennedy Onassis.

Thought wealthy persons put everything into trusts or whatever to escape having to file a will with probate court for God and the world to read.

R294, Signed two months before she died.

R295

Well when your physician says "go home and put your affairs in order...." it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out his meaning.

IIRC JBKO discharged herself from NYC hospital, and died at home very next day.

Did Jackie's dad really go both ways?

Just like Judy's papa.

I stopped reading at "Darwin Porter".

R296, Thanks to the morphine drip she insisted on being given.

Before taking to her death bed, Jackie took one last stroll with Maurice.

R296, I would like to have seen the version of her will prior to knowing that she'd be checking out at 64.

[quote]But on Tuesday, spokeswoman Nancy Tuckerman said the former first lady, who is a book editor at Doubleday, was in excellent spirits and doing fine.

The Jackie equivalent of she's fine, she sends her love.

That last picture with Templesman was tragic. She'd obviously given up. I mean... white socks.

"Well when your physician says "go home and put your affairs in order...." it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out his meaning."

My 70-year-old brother was told those exact words after being diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia two years ago, yet the SOB is still alive.

She's what they called handsome woman, back then.

You Queens and your skewered sense of true beauty full of plastic, botox, fillers, and implants!

We will always honor her for producing this...

r306 Too bad she made him so fucked up on the inside.

r307 I think Jackie did her best under the cirumstances

#circumstances even

Skewed, r305, not skewered.

[quote]R308 I think Jackie did her best under the

By auctioning her snatch to the highest bidder? To a liver spotted toad old enough to be her father?? A disgusting man who could barely stand up; a man who if you saw him on the street, you'd point him out to your friends so that they could join you in mocking him; a man, who if you saw him while you were eating, you wouldn't be able to finish your meal?

r311 A man who was insanely wealthy, a man who owned his own island, a man who owned his own airline, a man who had his own security force, a man who owned his own yacht, a man who could keep her safe from the Kennedy-killing loonies, a man who could give her a sanctuary to heal, a man who had the resources to help keep her children safe, a man who could provide a life so far removed from her old life that she could find a way to move on from tragedy, a man who could make her never have to worry about money for the rest of her life.

Fuck, I'd marry Onassis too! He was fucking Callas so Jackie needn't have slept with him much anyway. She spent most of her time in NY, he in Greece.

R312, Onassis was reported to be a skilled lover, as well as hung.

R313 Onassis also loved to do it the Greek way with men, seeing it as a proud tradition of his country and heritage.

R314, As a youth, he seduced a male prison guard so he could visit his incarcerated father.

Thanks, R310, you skewy bitch - hahahaha

Ari was fug in his youth too. That prison guard must have had super low standards.

Jackie should have laid off the Loving Care, or whatever hair dye was using all those years.

Both semi and permanent hair coloring back then often had high amounts of nasty stuff IIRC. Good news is they often did a great job of covering grey hair (even the semi types), bad news is at what risk to one's health.

Ironically since manufactures either removed or reduced certain chemicals, women are moaning nothing but better formulas of professional hair coloring products cover grey, especially for more than a week or two.

According to Leo Lerman’s diary Ari didn’t care for sex with Jackie because she wouldn’t do anal, unlike Maria Callas.

He also claimed in his diary that Ari showed up at Maria’s house on November 22, 1968, and was shown into a room to wait for Maria. While in there, he got naked because he wanted to fuck her.

When Maria walked into the room she got mad and threw him out, and said “how dare you! And on the fifth anniversary of your second wife’s first husband’s death!”

Who knows if it is true.

Callas and Onassis seemed to be a love match. Apparently she had aborted his child once.

Various rumors circulate regarding Maria Callas and Onassis on matter of infants/pregnancy.

One is MC gave birth to Onassis's son who died shortly afterwards. Others say there was at least one abortion due to their relationship.

I don't think Jackie ever professed to be beautiful herself, she knew she had large hands and feet, she knew her eyes were too far apart to be considered beautiful. she knew she was flat chested, she was under no illusion as to how she appeared. It was the media who said she was beautiful after comparisons were made with her immediate predecessors. She was also half their age.

Her supposed beauty, emphasised by youth and chic clothing, was cemented once Kennedy was killed. Having her husband murdered by her side, her dignified behaviour in the three days afterwards his death, her insistence to walk behind his coffin etc. made her 'beautiful', albeit mythic.

Although she wasn't traditionally beautiful she made great use of what she had. She developed an alluring, secretive and enigmatic personality and she used that character along with clothing, good grooming and discipline to create a wildly attractive persona.

Elizabeth Taylor was one of the few to defend Jackie on her marriage to Onassis.

Taylor said something like, "I think Jackie made an excellent choice in marrying Ari. I know Ari and he's very smart and lots of fun." , or something like that.

I'll take Taylor's word for it.

So what if Jackie peddled her pussy to Onassis. It was her body and she could do with it what she wanted.

This whole "whore" stuff attributed to women AND men who make a power balanced, arms length business transaction exchanging their bodies and sex for money is so Old Testament, prudish and pearl-clutching. It's just another crummy business deal, their beeswax, and not to be judged by me.

I'll reserve my outraged judgment for true, actual, destructive whoring, say, Donald Trump whoring out himself and the Office of the US Presidency to the biggest John who ever Johnned - Vladimir Putin.

R323 nails things down rather well.

Marriage, at least among wealthy or upper classes of society has always primarily been about avarice; personal and or familial. If it wasn't for all those property, tax and asset benefits bestowed by legal marriage doubt there would have been so much noise from gays and lesbians on that subject. As it was it took a court case about money to bring marriage equality about anyway.

High born women even after being allowed to obtain higher education (or any at all) still in 1960's well into 1990's had one primary career open to them; to marry well.

Jackie Kennedy Onassis was never going to leave an estate worth nearly $50 million on an editors salary. You want to see what her life would have been otherwise? Watch "Best of Everything" to see just where a liberal arts degree (even from Seven Sisters) got girls who came from the best homes.

It was then a depressingly masculine world, and JKO like her mother and others of same class for ages played cards they were dealt.

Following quotes largely sum up the "marriage" game for high born girls/women in GB and much of USA if not western Europe.

“Nonsense. And don’t you go marrying just anybody, for love,” she said. “Remember that love cannot last; it never, never does; but if you marry all this it’s for your life. One day, don’t forget, you’ll be middle-aged and think what that must be like for a woman who can’t have, say, a pair of diamond earrings. A woman of my age needs diamonds near her face, to give a sparkle.” ― Nancy Mitford, Love in a Cold Climate

“Love indeed - whoever invented love ought to be shot.” ― Nancy Mitford, Love in a Cold Climate

Love is all very well one supposes, but marriage is about assets and bloodlines. Women of JKO's day like her mother, grandmother in their time understood this from time left nursery. That nonesense about how easily it is (or was) to love a poor man as a wealthy one is just that; rubbish.

Could you actually picture Jacqueline Bouvier being happy married to some nobody in a grubby little house (or rented apartment more like) in Brooklyn?

[quote]Callas and Onassis seemed to be a love match. Apparently she had aborted his child once.

That could be a Hallmark card.

Those who say she "peddled her pussy" miss the point, entirely.

It was her fame, notoriety, and position on the world stage that she "peddled" to Onassis. She got his money, and he got her association and that which came with it. He could go on with his shady business practices in the US, but now, those with an ad to grind would think twice so as not to sully the image of the nation's living monument - Jackie, herself.

I miss nothing, r327.

Of course the goods exchanged included, on Jackie's part, her fame, notoriety and position for Ari Onassis' dough-ray-mee. I didn't include it in my post at r323 because I thought it too obvious to merit a mention.

My post at r323 was in response to all of the cyber-stoning of Jackie, the town whore, by the assembled villagers who focus on the sexual aspect of the transaction and, in righteous indignation, judge her a "whore". Now, that's really beside the point.

I'll digress on something I've posted before but it tickles me so I'll post it again. Nancy Tuckerman revealed that after Ari died and it was let out that Christina "hated" Jackie, that didn't stop Christina from, for the rest of her life, whenever she was in NYC and had a new boyfriend she wanted to impress, calling on Jackie, who was, according to Tuckerman, always gracious to her and the current boyfriend.

I get a kick out of that juicy nugget.

[quote]When asked who created her wedding gown, the snobbish, snotty Jackie dismissed Lowe by answering "a colored woman."

What a cow.

Jackie was smart, she knew how to hustle her way into a massive fortune. One that kept her and her children more then comfortable for the rest of her life and there's.

Caroline enjoys it now.

r330. 'than' and 'theirs'

R136

"Asked who made the dress, a viral tweet remembered this week, Jackie simply responded ”a colored dressmaker.”

Ms. Ann Lowe had known and worked for the Bouvier women for years. They made up part of the wealthy clientele who took horrible advantage of not just African-American dressmakers, but Italians, Jewish and anyone else who wasn't "white" by their standards.

Ms. Janet Lee Bouvier had her wedding gown made by Anne Lowe, and she along with her peers constantly beat Ms. Lowe down on prices. Haggling with one's dressmaker was just something these women did as routine dealings. After all if your husband only gives you a certain clothing allowance you can get more out of that money by forcing a shop or dressmaker to lower their price.

Tricks used then are largely same employed by LWL today; they tell a laundress, dressmaker, or whoever is providing a service that upon their recommendation business will increase. That in theory alone should make up for any loss taken by giving a discount price.

OTOH those dragons can put it another way; if whoever doesn't give in to their price demands they will spread word among friends and neighbors not to patronize; in short drive person out of business.

Don't think JBK meant the comment about "colored woman" harsh as it sounds to modern ears.

Jackie Kennedy was a product of her time, and while things were changing in 1953 of USA was still divided between whites and "colored".

For the record Ms. Ann Lowe knew very well who she was dealing with, and courted that clientele.

It was ladies of the Social Register who made up a large part of Ms. Lowe's client base, and she wanted it that way, even though it came with all that grief and lost money.

Also clearing up the record, as stated above Joe Kennedy was largely running the show for his son's wedding to JB; and that included heavy involvement with Jackie's wedding gown.

By all accounts Janet Auchincloss was out gunned and matched by Joe Kennedy when it came to her daughter's wedding.

Mr. Joe Kennedy was a piece of work, and far as he was concerned JFK's marriage was just another step on way to WH. An event on lines of a royal wedding spectacle is how JK saw things; a lavish affair with full media coverage, something to make local, national and worldwide news.

When you put everything into context (including fact JB neither liked her wedding dress or veil) you can see where a comment like "a colored dressmaker" would have fit.

Instead of what should have been the happiest event of her life, something girls dream of since leaving nursery, JB was basically reduced to being a bit player in her own wedding.

For those interested here are more of Ann Lowe's creations.

[R57] The nude photo of Jackie on Skorpios Island was known at the time as "The Billion Dollar Bush". I prefer seeing her dressed. My favorite garment she wore was her famous pink and navy blue Chanel suit from Dallas. There is a fascinating and very detailed essay on this suit on Wikipedia.

Thee most famous pink suit of all time.

Jackie was photographed wearing that pink suit on several occasions prior to Dallas.

Here is a picture of Jackie in her brand new pink suit in November 1961, two years before Dallas. One of the designs in the Chanel 1961 Fall/Winter collection.

PINK?!! Mrs. Kennedy wouldn't be caught dead in PINK! The color of Mrs. Kennedy's suit is Raspberry!

Think pink! think pink! when you shop for summer clothes. Think pink! think pink! if you want that quel-que chose. Red is dead, blue is through, Green's obscene, brown's taboo. And there is not the slightest excuse for plum or puce —or chartreuse.

She wore it greeting foreign dignitaries at the WH in October of 1962.

She wore it on a trip to London in March of 1962.

She wore it reviewing plans for Lafayette Square in September of 1962.

The suit has never been cleaned since Dallas. It remains archived, but the pillbox hat has been missing for decades.

Suit is "Chanel" but a line for line copy run up in New York at Chez Ninon with material supplied by Chanel from France.

While perhaps mere quibble, matter was touchy.

JBK was First Lady of the United States, and Oleg Cassini was her chosen American designer. Even then Jackie had a reputation as a clothes horse, but wanted to be seen as supporting American industry, as she should.

Media likely would have had a field day with an American First Lady wearing a French designer suit; so the Chez Ninon compromise was reached.

No, that pink pill box hat was torn off in wind (taking a bit of Jackie's hair and scalp along) when car sped up after bullets flew; it hasn't been seen since.

My guess is someone found that hat, and knowing that they had kept it as a memento of event. Person or persons may still be alive and thus hanging onto hat, or perhaps they have passed on but a family member inherited the thing. This or maybe when whoever found that hat died those clearing out their estate may have thrown away or given the hat to charity not realizing significance.

R346, The pillbox hat would be worth a fortune if auctioned. But, I'm not sure eBay would allow it, plus Caroline would surely intervene.

She was very stylish. Beauty standards change so maybe they did find her beautiful, but I never got it. I will even go as far to incur the wrath of the gays and say I never found Audrey Hepburn beautiful either. But she was a wonderful , elegant lady and I enjoy her movies.

Audrey Hepburn never thought she was beautiful and said so repeatedly in interviews.

[quote]r339 Here is a picture of Jackie in her brand new pink suit in November 1961

That's gray.

[quote] plus Caroline would surely intervene.

Agreed, r347.

Within the past 10 years or so, in Ireland, a Catholic Church had a priest ( probably now deceased) with whom Jackie corresponded in the years immediately following the assassination of JFK. The Church was going to put her letters up for auction to raise money for their financially suffering parish.

I remember my immediate reaction upon reading about this was, "Whoa. This church is playing hardball."

What I think happened is that private negotiations between the parish and Caroline Kennedy took place. She probably insisted that they donate, at no cost, the letters back to her.

The parish countered and said no-can-do, no-will-do. We need money.

I surmise neither party would budge and that the parish was going to go ahead with auction because the letters were outside the reach of American copyright laws.

I'm thinking that Caroline handed over a rather magnanimous tithe to the parish and they handed over the letters, which are now in the hands of Caroline with the entire matter is sealed from public eyes.

[quote]r349 Audrey Hepburn never thought she was beautiful and said so repeatedly in interviews.

As professional beauties are wont to do. - - that's just humblebrag PR.

Here's Vivien Leigh spouting the same bullshit:

Cybill Shepherd's about the only model or actress who's frankly discussed how her physical beauty was an advantage.

A member of Jackie's staff, still alive, apparently has the pillbox hat but refuses to answer questions about it. I'm not sure who. I'll look it up. It hasn't been seen since the Dallas hospital.

The pink suit, blood-stained and perfectly preserved in a vault in Maryland, is banned from public display for 100 years. The pillbox hat — removed at Parkland Hospital while Mrs. Kennedy waited for doctors to confirm what she already knew — is lost, last known to be in the hands of her personal secretary, who won’t discuss its whereabouts.

'What happened to the hat remains a mystery. Clint Hill, a Secret Service agent, said he gave the hat to Jackie’s secretary, Mary Gallagher, who has refused to talk about what happened to it. Two months ago, another theory emerged. “I know where the hat is,” a woman wrote in an email to Brawley. “One of the nurses from Parkland Hospital has it.” That is the Dallas hospital where Kennedy was taken after he was shot. Brawley says he has no idea who the woman is who reached out to him and has not heard back from her. Then last month, a nurse from Parkland told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that she threw the hat out while cleaning the emergency room where Kennedy was treated.'

I call bullshit on the nurse throwing the hat away. No one in 1963 would have thrown away a hat belonging to Jackie Kennedy. You'd have given it back or kept it. What's a bet this Steven Brawley is a DLister? Something sad about a grown man filling his house with kitschy Jackie Kennedy shit. And recreating the bedroom she died in? Creepy. And what makes him such an expert on the pink suit other than what he's read in books? He's never seen it. I bet he has a cheap copy of it he wears round the house!

R351, Could that have been the Catholic priest Jackie consulted when she was considering suicide after the assassination? She began drinking heavily after JFK's death and was convinced that her children would be better off in someone else's care.

I cannot find an obituary for Mary Barelli Gallagher, Jackie's personal assistant. If she's still alive, she'd be in her nineties.

Didn't Jackie cut her off after she wrote a book about her. Or had she left her employ by then?

r358, it could very well have been the same priest.

The reason I think that the parish or school could go to the mat to get money for the letters is because , and I don't know, I'm only surmising, that American copyright law couldn't apply to Ireland.

This would be unlike the letter Jackie wrote to Mrs. Tippett, the widow of the Dallas police officer who Lee Harvey Oswald killed the same day he killed JFK. If I understand it correctly, Mrs. Tippet owned the physical letter, however, she was forbidden to disseminate publicly its hand-written words because Jackie owned the copyright.

Refuse to believe that pink pill box hat is just "gone".

Secret Service, FBI and various other LE were all over that area after assassination of JFK, as were various onlookers, curiosity seekers, etc..

Yes, a pill box hat is small, but not so inconsequential to be over looked easily. Especially a pink one with a Chanel label sewn inside.

No, someone has that hat and either doesn't know what they've got, or do and are keeping quiet.

R362, There are probably blood stains on it.

How the hell did something like that just get away from her? Secret service agents should have gotten that.

Sounds like to me the secret service was extra sloppy that November day in Dallas.

What the fuck.

It was a mess back there.

Tippet was hot

R366, But, probably uncut.

She had fish teeth.

I have the hat, you idiots.

It was retrieved and given back to my mother within days of November 22nd, 1963.

We just didn't feel the need to tell the world we do.

[quote]r362 Secret Service, FBI and various other LE were all over that area after assassination of JFK

I think they had a BIT more on their mind than retrieving Jackie's hat.

It's not like the hat shot anybody.

The face might not have been the best, but she had a nice ass.

Jackie attractive, and that can be very broad in meaning.

R371 That's not a real photo is it?

The pic shows Jackie, realizing her husband's dead, bailing in order to grab her next meal ticket.

Can anyone picture Bess Truman water skiing?

r371 pretty sure that's a recreation for a movie

That ass pic reminded me of one DLer's hilarious take on the JFK assassination: Jackie shot John herself and then quickly got rid of the murder weapon by climbing to the back of the car and handing that security guard who was running behind them the gun.

In today's news from NYC, Lee Radziwell's former apartment finally sold.

Lee's auction last week at Christie's reaped $1.2 million.

Lee was prettier. There, I said it.

Another apartment recently sold in same building.

$1.2 million dollars is pretty modest for a grand society woman like lee radziwill who lived an Elizabeth Taylor adjacent lifestyle.

I expected a larger proceed.

R382

That apartment has nothing on Elizabeth Taylor's Beverly Hills estate.

Also as we've been discussing in another thread, building in question is a "white glove" UES co-op. Many of those apartments aren't selling for what they once did in past. Between change in tastes, huge amount of new luxury condo construction, there was getting board approval to consider.

There might have been others willing to pay more for that apartment, but wouldn't get a foot past front door far as board was concerned.

Building is on a very nice part of East 72nd, but still east of Lexington avenue going towards Third. Hardly Fifth or Park Avenue, which of course are drawing points for those wanting to live on UES. That street is also a busy east-west thoroughfare which while quiet enough at night, during day can be rather busy.

Lee had nothing in the end. She put it all on her back and on high living

[quote]There might have been others willing to pay more for that apartment, but wouldn't get a foot past front door far as board was concerned.

will those boards ever die? I mean literally, age out and be replaced by less... dogmatic types? You keep hearing these legends about these boards that are such nightmares... it seems ridiculous, the complexities of surviving the co-op board process.

Those co-op board buildings hand out purity tests. That's all they are.

Fuck'em,

That's why people are going for buildings without having to past a purity test.

She photographed much better than she looked in real life. I once shared an elevator with her, and I was amazed at how unattractive she was. All my life I had heard everyone say how beautiful she was, so I was stunned to see her in real life. It was not pretty.

R387, What year was that?

Jackie "loaned" Lee large amounts of money over the years, that's why she was left nothing in the will.

r388, It was in 1990.

Why didn't lee start some type of business or brand to generate $$ for herself? She was in position to do so.

That's a good example of privilege not creating or taking advantage of opportunity, when she could have. She could've made big $$ off of a perfume of jewelry line etc etc.

I'll never understand that.

New owner's of LR's former apartment.

You can see why the board would approve.

"The new owners are Elizabeth and Grant Quasha, chief investment officer of GFG Alliance, a U.K.-based conglomerate focused on the mining, energy and metals industries. "

R391, Lee should have formed a partnership with Roslyn Kind.

Following tells everything you need to know as to why LR didn't "make something more of herself" >

"Born into New York “aristocracy” like her sister, Radziwill lived a colorful life mostly in the public eye. She became a princess in her own right after marrying her second husband, Polish nobleman Prince Stanislaw Albrecht Radziwill, in 1959, after which her fame rose further as the sister-in-law of President John F. Kennedy."

LR like her sister JBKO, her peers, the mother and rest of women of their set at the time were bred for one thing; to marry and do it well. If it didn't work out, you ditched one husband and married "up" to another. Lather, rinse and repeat.

LR dabbled in interior decorating, and probably could have made something in that area (God knows that business today is filled with daughters (and some sons) from our very best homes), for for various reasons she never really put in effort.

Jackie copped the lot far as marriages went in that family. A POTUS (even if the Kennedy money came from rather dubious beginnings), then a Greek shipping magnate.

You look at the social register and you'll find then and now many of those ladies have been passed around like a lumber camp toy. Married, divorced, married, divorced.....

It would be one thing if they were like Countess De Lave; but LR and her set had other more mercenary reasons on their minds.

LR's main claim to fame was her married to that Polish prince, other than that it was pretty much fame by association with her sister.