Would the EU even grant another Brexit extension?

They would definitely grant the extension. The only one who could fuck this up is Boris. He could send a letter asking for extension and then intentionally do something at the meeting to torpedo it.

In related news, 52% of Leave voters want Boris Johnson to break the law for Brexit.

The EU is like the fucking Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. They already had a 7 month extension. If it's just not possible to get a fair deal, they should just leave the EU without it. Another 3 month extension won't make a difference. It will be difficult the first few but I'm sure they will recoup eventually.

It's against Europe's interests not to grant an extension. Each extension increases the possibility that Brexit may not happen, which will prevent any economic disruption to the established order. Given the uncertainty across the global economy, this should be a good thing. That said, European leaders are getting cranky at this drags on and may just tell the UK no. It wouldn't be smart, but there's no clear indication what would happen if they provide an extension, either. The people of the UK deserve to have an election to clarify this.

r2 It was the UK who asked for an extension, so that Hotel California analogy doesn't really fly.

R4 It does because they are making it impossible for the UK to leave with their endless demands.

What "endless demands". The UK decided to leave - it was THEIR decision alone.

So fucking leave.

The EU wants nothing more than to get rid of UK.

Ask Macron.

^Sure. The UK is only the biggest net contributor after Germany, but I'm sure Macron doesn't really give a fuck about the billion euro gap after Brexit.

R8 Yeah, because he has enough to deal with assholes like you.

R8 Germany has a 3.677 TRILLION GDP.

It's probably a lot more than a billion but still, they'll survive.

Wait until the EU starts putting the screws on the UK's financial services industry - without which the UK would be one of the poorest countries in Europe.

R9 No arguments, just petty personal insults. I guess we know who the real asshole here is.

R11 Whatever, you're the one thinking the EU can't manage without UK because.... reasons....

Get the fuck out of the EU, we don't want you.

R12 You're probably from one of those countries who only take and take but never contributed a single Euro. So yeah, bye bye asshole.

R13 Go suck Farage.

R14 I would prefer Farage's over your cheap dick every day.

Another extension will be granted to the UK because of Ireland only. They will wait until the technology for backstop has been developed and stable enough to deal with cross-border trade between Northern Ireland and Ireland without having to resort to hard border, probably in 2021.

Really R16? You think technology is the solution? You think that another 2 years will make that "stable"?

That's what's called "magical thinking". If there were even technology on the horizon to do this it would have been done, even in an experimental way.

No, technology isn't going to provide some fantasy solution to the Backstop. You know what will? The reunification of Ireland.

And Brexit makes that much more likely.

The EU will accept another extension only if there's a new referendum.

R17 is entitled to her opinion. But most of us who believe in technology think that technology will solve the backstop debacle soon. And you don't have any other solution besides your even more magical thinking of reunification. Technology is not magical thinking, sis, whereas your reunification idea is. Spain can't take her Gibraltar back from the UK, so why can Ireland and her northern part? So wishful.

R19 Mark François has spoken guys. He BELIEVES and that's enough.

If there's some technological miracle, why are the Brexiters crying about the Backstop again?

They could also just make Northern Ireland a special administrative region with no border or tariffs. But the EU demands a hard border and border control.

R21 The EU proposed to do that, it's the UK who refused and proposed the backstop as THE solution.

Just exit already.

R20 = I don't know her and I couldn't care less, sis. And technology is not a miracle; it's feasible and in development. Unlike the Irish unification which is a purely "miracle thinking" that will never happen in my lifetime or in your lifetime which will end in 10 years.

[quote]May argued for “alternative arrangements” to avoid a hard border without the backstop and pro-Brexit advocates insist that technology can allow virtual checks without physical infrastructure on the border. The EU has rejected proposed alternatives, saying they are untested and need to be worked on during the transition.

That's why they need 2 more years to implement the technology. Please read and learn more about the technology as it might sound like a miracle to boomers, but it's really not.

And please read about the backstop debacle and the Good Friday Agreement before you elicit more of your naivety on these issues, sis, please.

R24 If you don't know who Mark François is, maybe you're the one who should shut up and learn about UK politics.

May can say whatever she wants it doesn't make it true.

If the EU thinks there's no realistic technological solution, then you can put your so-called technological solution deep in your ass because it won't happen sis.

[quote]The EU is like the fucking Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. They already had a 7 month extension.

I could find a way to leave, easy peasy

[quote]But the EU demands a hard border and border control.

Yet when Trump says the same thing, everyone cries racism

R27 EU demands shit, it's the UK who wants to live and refuse the backstop.

Don't put it on the EU.

What's this NI-only backstop thereof they speak?

Latest poll numbers..

54% agree the referendum result should be respected. 25 per cent disagreed and 21 per cent didn’t know.

Of those who voted Remain in 2016, more than a third (35 per cent) said they now wanted Brexit delivered.

Asked if Brexit should be postponed until Jan 31, almost half (49 per cent) disagreed, 29 per cent agreed (22 per cent didn’t know).

43 per cent agreed that if the EU makes no concessions, the UK should leave without a deal on Oct 31, compared with a 32 per cent who disagreed (25 per cent didn’t know).

40 per cent agreed the Labour leader was wrong to oppose Mr Johnson’s bid for another ballot on Oct 15. 30 per cent who disagreed (30 per cent didn’t know).

R30 then fucking do it already.

The rest of us are tired of your whining.

And I would hope that the worst of the outcomes fall on the old, white, racists that voted for it in the first place. Let the pound get to parity, let the thousands of financial services jobs move to the EU, let the motorways fill with British exports that can't enter Europe, let the NHS fall apart for lack of workers.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken

[quote]The rest of us are tired of your whining.

You might tell that to the Labour, the Lib Dems and about twenty rebel Tories.

Lol, the Brexiters are the biggest snowflakes.

"We're so special. We won WW2 alone. We don't want to speak with Macron and Merkel ! We want the colonies back!!!"

Enough of the fucking extensions. The UK made their bed, they can lie in it.

Of course they'll grant another extension. That's the EU way. Delay, delay: never face things head-on.

[quote]Of course they'll grant another extension. That's the EU way

They not the ones asking for an extension.

I hope this galvanizes the EU, for future conflicts and disagreements, with friends or rivals.

Perfidious Albion, indeed.

R36, work on your reading comprehension.

R7 If the GB wasn't spending its time by constantly rejecting her own mistakes on others she would be much less pathetic. It is always the fault of Macron or Merkel according to you. It will be four years that you choose conservatives, worse the far right to represent you, as if these people had already built anything productive. Despite all the postponements you have been getting since all these months, it is still and again the fault of the French. You live three centuries back, while neither the French media nor the French devote you such hatred. Pretending that you do not want to be the bitches of the EU while blushing like prostitutes when Steve Bannon, a white supremacist, directly sent by Trump to break Europe whose economic power would threaten theirs, is an incredible hypocrisy . At one time or another, you will have to behave like adults and take your responsibilities. All of this mess is the result of YOUR decisions and YOUR choices. Not Macron, not Merkel or anyone else and stop playing the victim's card because no one in Europe believes you. In fact you are the laughingstock of Europe.

R39 BOOM! Well said!

R14 This is already what brexshiters are doing. Sucking Bannon's ass. Farage have a house in France but he's always the one insulting Macron and the French, isn't lovely?

R39 yes, Britons prefer being the USA bitches. You perfectly captured them, thanks for saying what the Europeans can see about them. The true is that they never loved anyone but themselves. Even before Brexit. They always despised the rest of Europe. Bashing the French too.

The EU should not grant an extension. There's no chance of a reversal.

This is a good time to buy property in London and, if we ever get any money, we shall do that....hopefully before brexit.

Because after brexit prices will shoot up.

R39 Indeed. Austerity was an incredibly poor Conservative policy. I thought capitalists like a vibrant economy. How can that occur if no one has money to spend?

UK gonna leave with No Deal.

Johnson wants a no deal and EU has enough of UK's games.

EU needs UK money more than UK needs EU.

Have fun renegotiating every trading partner within a 2000 mile radius.

R45 And don't forget that capitalism is about to crash. In other words, brexiters are cowards. They did not even try to fundamentally change what, in EU rules they did not like, they are not beaten for a better EU. They are trying to blame to accuse everyone, PM after PM, of all kinds of things rather than finding solutions. They announce a Leave date every three months, and each time the deadline is almost over, they ask for an extension. And of course it is always the French's fault when, nevertheless, Macron has not stopped repeating that the Uk's choice to leave must be respected, without judgments of values. Where is the UK dignity? Where?

Also, becoming the usa's bitches under Trump means becoming Putin's and Russian bitches

The EU have responded in a patient and civilised manner to everything the UK has put forward. It is us, and us alone, who are repeatedly messing it up.

When we leave, likely with no deal, and people lose their employment rights, money doesn’t miraculously pour down from on high to already depressed areas, businesses move out of the country, goods are delayed at the border and key services are badly understaffed, Leavers will continue to point the finger at the EU or blame Remainers for a bad deal. They are incapable of taking responsibility.

But then they are incapable of grasping that one of the reasons we are a country that punched above its weight because of key diplomatic positioning as a part of but also apart from Europe as a whole. No longer in that position we become irrelevant and no amount of bleating about past glories, imagined or otherwise, will help. Meanwhile, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and their lot, alongside Farage, Aaron Banks and their lot, will be ready to make the most of a de-regulated free for all.

Leavers constantly crow about winning the vote and then put their faith in a man voted in by a fraction of the populace, and a rarified fraction at that. Meanwhile, he pits them against an institution that has been voted in by 40 million or more.

Frighteningly, it’s now gone further with people countenancing the Prime Minister breaking the law. How they cannot realise what will happen to the country and to their rights if that precedent is allowed beggars belief.

Talk about holding your hands out to be shackled and emptying your pockets out to be robbed.

[quote]They announce a Leave date every three months, and each time the deadline is almost over, they ask for an extension. And of course it is always the French's fault when, nevertheless, Macron has not stopped repeating that the Uk's choice to leave must be respected, without judgments of values.

Exactly. Nothing but Brexit and Extensions for 3 years, 5 if the “technology” becomes good enough.

The reason the UK doesn’t want a hard border between Northern Ireland the the Republic of Ireland isn’t a fear of returning to sectarian violence. It’s about humiliation of of losing its closest colony. Never mind that Northern Ireland is poor and Scotland receives so much welfare and is about to run out of oil. The UK isn’t much of a Kingdom to unite consisting of just Wales and England.

R51 Perfectly stated. A sad but good analysis, alas

[quote] Meanwhile, he pits them against an institution that has been voted in by 40 million or more.

Huh?

UK doesn't accept it's an average power now. France uses the EU to stay relevant, UK should do the same but they're too blind for that.

UK will be more and more irrelevant. Its only way to exist will be as US's (Trump's) poodle.

[quote] Germany has a 3.677 TRILLION GDP. It's probably a lot more than a billion but still, they'll survive.

It’s not about Germany “surviving”, R10. Germany is not a net recipient of EU funds - instead it’s newer EU members (Eastern European countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia). They’re the ones who will have a hole in their budget if Britain leaves. And they’re already kicking up a fuss over it, with their hand outstretched: “But if the UK leaves, who’ll pay us then?”. Do German taxpayers want to perform monthly charity and subsidise building roads in Romania? Most British taxpayers don’t want to fund infrastructure projects in Bucharest:

[quote] "Since the Eastern European country joined the bloc on 1 January 2007, Romania has received €39 billion ... During the same period, Romania contributed €13 billion, meaning Bucharest made a net gain of €26.5 billion."

British are Vikings French are ugly Gallics. Facts

R56 Be reassured, eastern countries will survive without the UK.

EU budget is a very small part of national budget. If the EU members need to increase this very small part, they will.

You ain't that important bitch.

I hope that made you feel better, R58.

[quote] The EU have responded in a patient and civilised manner to everything the UK has put forward. It is us, and us alone, who are repeatedly messing it up.

Pffft, R51. Holding a public conference without his counterpart and basically talking to, and shadow-boxing with, himself was imbecilic of the Luxembourg representative.

R57 Wow...French are Gauls and Celtics (Brittany), and Vikings too! Normand (Normandy) means Viking you ignorant.

R57 Well Macron is hot and Bojo not that much.

[quote] Be reassured, eastern countries will survive without the UK. EU budget is a very small part of national budget. If the EU members need to increase this very small part, they will. You ain't that important bitch.

That's not how GDP is analysed, R58. And the fact that you call people “bitch” over it shows how butthurt you really are over it.

Countries like Lithuania, Bulgaria and Hungary, receive up to 3% of their annual GDP from the EU budget. That’s not a “very small part” in terms of GDP development - 3% GDP (which essentially equals to 3% GDP charitable growth assistance), given to Eastern Europe from Western Europe, is what most developing countries around the world would BEG to get.

And as soon as it was announced that Britain was leaving, the first and only concern that most Eastern European members voiced in meetings was who will then pay them their PAYCHECK instead and take on the burden of making up for the shortfall. Those members don’t give a heck if there’s a deal or not - all they care about is that the freebie money funnelling to them will continue in perpetuity.

Eastern countries will “survive” alright - their whole existence was about “barely surviving” and begging for money. But it’s questionable if they’ll thrive. Especially now that, despite all the money the EU gave them, Hungary is passing homophobic legislation and Poland is backing it up - their rampant homophobia is not attractive to any gay businessman.

DL sisters long for a New World Order, which would be one single world government modelled on feudalism and socialism, run by the central banks and policed by the UN and NATO!

R64 While brexshiteers and Trumpers want a 4th Reich policed by Putin

Bulletin: It's already here!

the NWO, that is.

[quote] brexiters are cowards. They did not even try to fundamentally change what, in EU rules they did not like, they are not beaten for a better EU.

R49 - even the EU itself (as a multi-member behemoth institution) can't change its own laws. For example, the EU tried to impose sanctions on Hungary for breaching EU requirements (Hungary started undemocratically limiting judicial freedom and also pushed some very worrying anti-LGBT rhetoric). But it turned out the EU was completely helpless and toothless - it couldn't even impose those necessary sanctions - because Poland simply vetoed them. And that's it. No more could be done. One single (newer) member has the veto-power to stop the EU from doing anything about it.

So in light of this bureaucratic cluster*ck that can't be untangled (because the EU has become too unwieldy and can't even get members' approval to change its own rules and free up its hands to sanction disobedient members) - what, you expect Britain to have somehow "changed" the EU by itself? Can't be done. The EU has become a bureaucratic quagmire. Because it lacks robust procedures for resolving internal conflict between members. And such conflict happens more often now - because there are far too many members now and not all of them "play by the rules".

But in order to install new, more rigorous internal procedures, the EU needs approval from the majority of the members (including new members) - but that approval does not appear to be forthcoming. Why would Eastern countries vote (essentially against themselves) to give the EU more sanction power against them? Of course they would not approve that - because tougher sanctions go against their own interests.

In light of the Mueller report, they need to do a forensic analysis of the 2016 "Brexit" vote to determine if it was in any way interfered with by the Russians. I mean, it's just what Putin would have wanted, isn't it? Divide and conquer?

If it was, then they need to do a revote- this time heavily monitored. We can't let that evil little man take over the world.

[quote]“But if the UK leaves, who’ll pay us then?”.

Yeah no.

[quote] Yet when Trump says the same thing, everyone cries racism

That’s because it whites on our side and Mexicans on the other, Rose. In Ireland it’s Irish on one side and Irish on the other.

r69, I think the result would again be roughly 50-50.

The English are a warrior race. They have a supremely organised political, military and class system with which they colonised the world and raped its resources to build its industry at home and create jobs. They are clannish and largely unsophisticated and provincial. They have transferred their culture of warfare to football.

They literally live for fighting and argument and setting themselves in an poor-us-against-terrible-fucking them paradigm is how it continues. Look at the movie LOVE, ACTUALLY. It is the work of a New Zealand born Anglophphile who knew the general public would eat up a soppy fantasy in which cute, stammering PM Hugh Grant was bullied into war by sleazy President Billy Bob Thornton. No responsibility whatsoever. People on this thread and other threads continually mention how the Scandanavians and French are bemused and amused by the British hatred of them.

I think Leave would win again.

Whatever the undoubted problems and deficits of the EU, the blinkered Little England views of r60/ r63/ r68 reveal the fundamental Brexiteer delusion that England (because, let's face it, Brexit is not a UK choice, it's an English vision, with Wales following along with increasing unease) will in any way -- economically, politically, you name it -- be better off outside the EU than inside.

A smallish country that was once proud of "punching above its weight" on the tails of its extinct empire and as a part of the EU, a major political and trading bloc for all its shortcomings, will be nothing more than a smallish country on the fringes of Europe after Brexit.

The UK paid 0.3% (in words: three-tenths of one percent) of its GDP into the EU budget in 2017. Anyone who complains about paying that amount into the EU budget, when Brexit is projected to shave 1.5% - 2.0% annually off the UK's GDP growth, is not driven by reason, but by pure chauvinism. And that's going to come back to bite everyone but the very rich disaster capitalists like Arron Banks and Jacob Rees-Mogg, who have safely "diversified" their wealth offshore and are looking forward to being able to get good domestic help again.

But I'm sure Donald Trump will ride to the rescue with a super-favorable trade deal. I mean, he's always delivered on his promises, right? Like Boris Johnson.

Hmmm...I suspect the British to be secretly in love with the French. You guys love to hate them. Of course you shout at them you fight with them. You spend your time provoking each other. But as soon as the time of the separation comes, as soon as the time to LEAVE your sexy French comes, you panic and you REMAIN! Then you both end up in bed fucking as if it was your last day in Earth. Do not deny it, your common history for more than a millennium says so. You hate them but you love them. There is a fascination between you. That sexual tension is sometimes so unbearable that it drives you both crazy.

Well, looks like it's been a long time you haven't fuck British and French...Hahaha 😁

R74 LMAO. Finally we have our new British Rom-Com!!! I'm sure the true is not that far from your explanation. I would like Macron to fuck me hard tho.

R74 that's why Boris is so shy here? I get it now Lol

Boris is a real man....he is not comfortable around fairies!

[quote]The English are a warrior race...They are clannish and largely unsophisticated and provincial.

Largely but by no means entirely. England punches above its weight in the arts and sciences, with Nobel prizes aplenty. Its best Universities are world class. Of course the Ruling Class exploits the warrior blood when it sees fit, such as now. Lions led by donkeys reaches back to 1914 and way beyond.

[quote]Look at the movie LOVE, ACTUALLY. It is the work of a New Zealand born Anglophphile…

Indeed, and no-one reasonably intelligent takes Curtis's lower-middlebrow fairy tales seriously for a second. Similarly 'Downton Abbey.' More quaint confectionery, of negligible importance. Like so much pap from Hollywood's dream factory.

[quote]People on this thread and other threads continually mention how the Scandanavians and French are bemused and amused by the British hatred of them.

Again, it's the loudmouthed frightened unenlightened of the British who resort to default xenophobia. A vital prejudice to be exploited shamelessly by Brexiteer press barons and all their passionate minions.

[quote]I think Leave would win again.

Probably yes, though it might be yet closer. Depends on the effectiveness of outside interference. But then if there was a referendum on capital punishment, the people would vote in favour of that too.

R77 Yeah sure a "real man", ran away like a pure coward when being booed and skips a press conference because he can't face it. A "real man" manipulates a very old Queen lying at her face, closing undemocratically the parliament right? Your "real man" standards smell like shit i keep the "fairies". And when you say fairie i know exactly what you are insinuating you pos. Be careful, we are on your right-winger websites here, be careful

^ *We are NOT on your right wingers websites

Interesting and truthful Brexit insights

Sure, 81. Don't forget to link to Zerohedge next time.

There's just so much Brexit fatigue that even people who voted remain just want it all to end. I think the rebellion in parliament has only made no-deal more likely. Macron is rumoured to be against another extension.

What it boils down to is that the European Central Bank/EU government and it's stooges need the British financial contributias very very badly.

We pray for a quick and hard Brexit that will lead to the dissolutia of the EU and the freeing of the tax slaves.

Leaving aside known imbeciles like Erna, it's beyond foolish for even the most fatigued Brit to believe that a no-deal Brexit will be the end of anything at all: no deal would leave the UK having to start near zero in all international negotiations, including the unavoidable ones with the EU.

Now THAT will be fatiguing.

We can explain people again, again and again that UK has no interest in a no-deal, they don't believe it.

Let them learn the hard way.

Boris is planning to defy parliament. His cabinet is sticking to the "we're out on October 31st deal or no deal" talking points.

David Cameron was on the MSNBC Morning Joe program this am saying all of the political parties were clamoring for the referendum to happen. Is that true?

This cartoon is giving me life right now.

No it's not true, r88. The conservatives, having spent most of the last 40/50 years in power, and have always had major internal disagreements on Europe, Labour had the same issue, but then they lost the election, in 2010.

When Cameron won the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, followed by a majority in the 2015 election, clearly felt emboldened to settle the issue once and for all, within the Conservative party, to maintain their grip on power. It was a moment of hubris that cost him his job, tore the country and his party apart. While he is living his wealthy and privileged, Eton educated life.

That unloved disease, in No. 10, is also an Etonian. The problem is, about half the Tories are privately educated, the others probably bought houses close to the catchment area of high performing state schools, driving house prices up by an average of £180,000.

My point is, Cameron is an arrogant piece of shit, who, in his conceit, has probably ruined the country for generations and can't accept the responsibility for his decisions, as Prime Minister. It was he who called it, had no plan for a leave vote and he who ran rather than fix his (our) mess.

Remember Ronald Reagan's 'mistakes were made', the rich and powerful also imagine they are infallible, beautiful creatures, paragons of virtue, beyond reproach and certainly beyond the judgement of the rest of us. That is why they lie without compunction and conduct themselves without scruples.

They're all rotten.

In addition, Cameron in his memoir and subsequent publicity has derided top Brexiteers Johnson and Gove as 'appalling' in their ongoing pro-Leave behaviour. These were once close colleagues and friends.

Thus is Cameron trying somehow to distance himself from the deep crisis in which his, our, country is embroiled: he's saying, Yes I started it all, but look - they made it all so much worse!

He certainly has a point, but like Blair and Iraq, his original decision and approach will haunt him till his grave.

The EU will grant another extension because it's not what Johnson wants. The longer they play this out the greater the chance for another referendum. EU losing it's second largest net contributor is no joke.

The longer Bruxelles stymies this, the worse the backlash.

BoJo has the upper hand.

Germany and France do not want a new Singapore or Hong Kong off the coast of Europe.

R92

Polls show that a second referendum would be even more decisively pro Brexit.

The DUP is even siding the BoJo.

Rumour has it even Corbyn is a leaver. He's never been a fan of the EU.

Let's start with basic economics. Britain long ago became a net importer of food. It currently imports 1/4th of all of its food. Countries like Spain and even France are net exporters of food. Britain has to have something of value to sell in order to get food. In the past 50 years, that something of value has been financial services. Banks, stocks, insurance, etc. Britain had a level of expertise in these areas and it was valuable. Even now, prior to Brexit, the financial services industry is fleeing Britain, to the tune of 1. 7 Trillion pounds so far and 10s of thousands of jobs. Britain wants cars and dishwashers and laundry machines and computers. It hardly makes any of those things anymore. That means it needs to buy them from Germany (or China or Japan). What does it have that those nations are going to want?

After Brexit, its economy is going to shrink drastically. That process has already begun with the offloading of the financial services industry. It's a pretty country with lots of well-developed tourist sites, it has a temperate climate, a moderately well-educated although apparently pig-headed populace, and it has a lot of decent infrastructure already in place (highways, railways, airports). So it's not going to disappear. It's just going to shrink to its REAL place in the world - a middling economy on a par with Italy. The fact that it's an island does not make things better. It makes things worse. Everything that comes to Britain from outside Britain has to come by boat or, now, by train through the channel tunnel - that makes every kind of good more expensive there than it is elsewhere. But it's a net gain for those of us who will visit it as tourists. It's going to be a bargain. But we'll have to bring our own snacks, because even with our much higher-valued currencies relative to the pound, food will still be expensive and some goods impossible to obtain.

R96

Impressive. You pretended to be intelligent and proved the opposite.

r97 Impressive. You delivered a searing indictment without a shred of evidence or counter argument. We just witnessed Trump do that today in an hour-long press conference. So you're in good company. I'm guessing you're a stable genius too.

R96, according to that E&Y study you didn't link to, only 1000 jobs have relocated to the remainder of the EU so far with up to 7000 earmarked for eventual relocation with a value of about £1tn in total. Your figures seem a bit off unless you can substantiate them in some way. I don't foresee more than the bare minimum shifting to Europe. London has far too much expertise in global finance and that cannot be easily replicated or transferred and most of it does not involve intra-EU business.

As for the import of food, that can be partly blamed on the CAP, which favours France but disadvantages the UK. Our apple industry more or less collapsed under it and all attempts to have it reformed have failed so far as France has vetoed those while grumbling publicly over the rebate Thatcher wrested back for the UK.

Those problems with manufacturing that the UK has are going to hit the EU member states too. The UK is just a tad ahead of the curve as more and more of the EU shifts towards services. The more that low cost countries improve their manufacturing bases, the less that Western Europe will be able to compete on sheer cost alone, tariffs or no tariffs. A winded UK is still a market loss for their products right now and that will lead to lay offs soon enough. It is more than just the UK's yearly contribution that the EU is worried about.

As for the prospect of a UK's becoming a tax haven, I rather suspect the dodgy billionaire backers of the Leave campaign will be more than delighted enough with the killing they will make by shorting the pound following a no-deal crash out of the EU. They can retire to their Caribbean tax ghettoes along with their backers in Parliament who will no doubt resign their seats soon enough because Westminster has become too "toxic" thanks to their intemperate language and shenanigans over the past three years.

Otherwise, you are pretty much spot on.

[quote] Britain long ago became a net importer of food. It currently imports 1/4th of all of its food.

R96, Investopedia says "60% of the U.K.’s food needs are produced domestically".

And if you listen to current Eco-activists, including at the UN - they're all saying we're going to face early extinction as a human population if we don't change our consumer habits and our resource management. The UK imports fruit in the winter (from Spain, Kenya), etc. Well, maybe it's about time that people start eating more seasonally and more locally - rather than importing and shipping tons of products from Hong Kong and Brazil, by huge daily fuel tankers.

The financial industry is affected by Brexit - but Britain will remain a favourite "money deposit-box" for most developing countries, just like Switzerland.

[quote] It's just going to shrink to its REAL place in the world - a middling economy on a par with Italy.

Eh? How is Italy a "middling" economy "in the world"? It's # 8-9 in the world by GDP (i.e. Top 10) - out of nearly 200 countries in the world. Britain's economy (before Brexit) is not that far ahead of Italy. Britain is #5 or so in the world by GDP.

R100 Little England has spoken.

Saying that Italy is not a "middling economy", and that people need to eat more sustainably, with less of a carbon footprint, is "Little England" now? Lol.

Good luck on your path to the EU's Global Corporate Imperialism. Don't let the environment get in the way of your personal convenience.

At least now we're talking by using evidence rather than talking points. I like that. Sources vary on how much money has already transferred out of Britain. The linked article says that banks have ALREADY transferred out 1.3 trillion dollars (shouldn't have said pounds in my original post), with much more expected - if I'm reading correctly, 1.2 additional trillion is expected to be transferred in the way of funds, assets, and staff.

If we go from height of GDP (which was 3034 billion in Britain in 2014) and 2276 in Italy in 2011, Britain's economy had historically been 1/4 larger than Italy's, so a drop to the size of Italy's economy would essentially drop per capita income in Britain down about 20%. I think the workers of Britain would notice......

By middling, I was referring to economies of developed nations - not including second and third world economies. Obviously Britain's economy is not dropping to the size of Turkey's or Thailand's although they have similar populations. There is pre-existing wealth in Britain, and enough of a long-term middle class that consumption and services are inline with demand. (In other words, there is not a history of such extreme inequality that Britain would have to drag a nation of peasants into the 21st century).

In regard to food, Britain has been a net importer of food since 1843!!!. I laugh at the notion that it was the EU's preference for France that caused that to happen. There is no way that a country the size of Britain, with its dense population and climate that only allows for the growing of certain crops could feed itself to the level that the people are used to. There is nothing wrong with being a food importer, but, once again, you have to have goods and/or services to export to maintain that balance.

[quote] By middling, I was referring to economies of [italic]developed nations[/italic] - not including second and third world economies.

Then you should have said that, instead of exaggerating: "It's just going to shrink to its real place [italic]in the world[/italic] - a middling economy on a par with Italy. The "world" is not just "developed countries".

[quote] There is no way that a country the size of Britain, with its dense population and climate that only allows for the growing of certain crops could feed itself to the level that the people are used to. There is nothing wrong with being a food importer, but, once again, you have to have goods and/or services to export to maintain that balance.

Greta Thunberg would disagree you. People are "used to" way too much. Britain also has an obesity problem. Brexit or no Brexit, eating more locally and seasonally is the future. Importing Mediterranean food by fuel-guzzling trucks or tankers all the way from other side of the continent like Greece and Bulgaria is not eco-sustainable and too CO2-reckless. Such things will need to change anyway, whether people like it or not.

[quote] so a drop to the size of Italy's economy would essentially drop per capita income in Britain down about 20%. I think the workers of Britain would notice......

The workers of Britain have already noticed - despite all the touted GDP numbers, there's been an age of austerity for a decade ever since the economic crisis of 2008. The underground/subway has become too dangerously over-packed with people, the hospitals are in the worst crisis in recent records, the crime rates are up, ethnic tensions are up. Despite all the promised benefits of Globalism, something is not working right. The GDP is there on paper - but not in practice, it's not trickling down to the growing population's need for infrastructure and urgent services (hospitals, police force, etc). Workers did not vote for a desperate "nuclear" option based on a "good, stable life" - they voted for a desperate option based on growing discontent and disillusionment because clearly something is not working right. The benefits of Globalism and open-borders are going to the elites and middle-class, while the working-class has to grapple with its detriments.

E.g. Electricians and taxi-drivers now have to compete with many blue-collar workers from other parts of the EU that price-undercut them, willing to desperately work for half the salary. That's good for the employers (who tend to be richer) - but not good for domestic labourers and self-employed, because they then have to lower their own wages to stay afloat. The upper class wins out of this arrangement - the lower class generally does not and struggles.

[quote]Greta Thunberg would disagree you. People are "used to" way too much. Britain also has an obesity problem. Brexit or no Brexit, eating more locally and seasonally is the future. Importing Mediterranean food by fuel-guzzling trucks or tankers all the way from other side of the continent like Greece and Bulgaria is not eco-sustainable and too CO2-reckless. Such things will need to change anyway, whether people like it or not.

That may well be the single lamest reply on this thread. You cannot argue with the data that he provided so you resort to bullshit like this?

Delete your account.

What “bullshit”, R105? You think rising sea levels & climate change is “bullshit” - especially for an island-nation? Since you love data so much - there’s data that says our RECKLESS globalist consumer habits (transporting consumer shit for miles using trucks, tankers and airplanes) are exacerbating ecological problems. “Delete” your own account if you just want to pretend nothing needs to change.

And I love the poster’s “data” - ON PAPER. If Britain has such high GDP - why are its hospitals failing? A high GDP would translate into a surplus of state money for social services, necessary to keep the population alive. Except every report is saying Britain’s state resources are over-stretched and even the NHS is crumbling So what’s the point of scaremongering about post-Brexit - if the current situation (created by open-borders where old people move to the UK to get free healthcare) has already run the country into the ground. There’s no point philosophising about “high GDP on paper” - if a country’s emergency services (its lifeline: hospitals & police) are not coping in practice.

R106, pretending I said something I didn't say and doubling down on the bullshit doesn't help your case. It just makes you look increasingly desperate because you don't have any data to counter that other poster's remarks.

Speaking of pathetic:

[quote]If Britain has such high GDP - why are its hospitals failing?

I rest my case.

Italy is a third world shithole these days.

"If it's just not possible to get a fair deal, they should just leave the EU without it."

It's like Putin has his forearm up your ass and he's making your jaw move.

Have you picked out your puppet name yet? Mortimer Snerd has already been taken, but you could be Mortimer Snerd Jr. or M.S. III or something like that because tradition is important to right wing idiots.

Honestly. Rather than another election, there ought to be a referendum on the current plan.

Why? Because a stubborn minority still don't want to leave? The British voted to leave by a majority. Both Labour and the Conservatives (and possibly the Lib Dems) promised to respect the result of the referendum. The government delivered an exit deal. It's done. None of the polling suggests a majority want another referendum. Just because Fortress Westminster can't grasp it doesn't mean it isn't so. They get their referendum. It's the national election. If a majority doesn't want the current deal they vote out the government proposing it.

This argument for another referendum despite these facts sounds an awful lot like Republicans arguing about process and about letting the people have their say through an election next year, not an impeachment proceeding now. And it sounds just as feeble.

Another referendum on an actual document, rather than the amorphous concept of Brexit, would force action by parliament. The MPs are the ones waffling, not the EU. And I think Leave would win again anyway.

[quote] They already had a 7 month extension. If it's just not possible to get a fair deal, they should just leave the EU without it.

LOL - they don't want a "fair" deal. They want a deal to brag that they "won" and screwed over the EU.

Also, as far as the actual details, they want their cake and eat it too - they want ALL the benefits and none of the requirements of being in the EU.

[quote]Another referendum on an actual document, rather than the amorphous concept of Brexit, would force action by parliament.

How? The government has the authority to act if Parliament would stop playing silly games without a mandate to do so. The Lib Dems and some elements of poor, failing Labour are rewriting the rules after the fact because they don't like the result of going to the people. Say what you will about either of them May and Johnson delivered on the referendum outcome.

That's important. You don't ask people to vote and then tell you know better. You just don't. Personally, I think it could be a total balls up but it must be seen to be one before you can just give a democratic outcome the bird. The message is terrible. Same thing with the Republicans putting party of principle. It is terrible

It’s the MPs who need to get in line and finish it once and for all, either way. These delays are ridiculous.

R106

According to scientists it will take 100 years for the water to rise 10 cm.

R112

The number of people that would vote leave would increase to 60% versus 40% after the bullshit that Parliament has slung.

R114

Unless BoJo delivers Brexit, Farage will field a hundred seats in commons and on the EUC.

Farage would block every motion until the bureaucrats in Bruxelles finally give in and allow the U.K. to exit peacefully.

They’re terrified of a “Hong Kong” off Dover.

r116. What scientist(s) do you think you are quoting?

R119

The fact that temperatures today are no warmer than they were 30 years ago makes me skeptical.

Foolish children like you just keep sucking that propaganda like a horse cock.

When you can explain the medieval warming & the extreme temperatures of the 1930s without invoking carbon dioxide, get back to me.

You are just a brainwashed child regurgitating propaganda.

R119

The fact that temperatures today are no warmer than they were 30 years ago makes me skeptical.

Foolish children like you just keep sucking that propaganda like a horse cock.

When you can explain the medieval warming & the extreme temperatures of the 1930s without invoking carbon dioxide, get back to me.

You are just a brainwashed child regurgitating propaganda.

r121, you need to consult a few more sources. Yours are woefully inadequate and/or inaccurate.

Obligatory video

I cannot believe anybody would cite Greta Thunderberg as an authority on anything. She's a PR tactic, not a scientist.

R124

We are talking about Brexit. Logic isn’t a factor.

Greta Thunberg is a fucking cunt.

[quote]Unless BoJo delivers Brexit, Farage will field a hundred seats in commons

The EU keeps granting extension after extension solely because they don't want to be blamed for the spiraling clusterfuck that Brexit has become and will continue to be.

At this point, they can't wait for the UK to finally leave, and shut down the drama for the rest of the EU.

R126

Farage is only fielding seats in areas where a Remainer is parliamentarian.

No need to split the vote between Brexit Party and Tories that actually support Brexit.