Tatum O'Neal Pathological Love for her father Ryan O'Neal

Tatum intruding her father's privacy in his locked bedroom when he was with Melanie. Ryan wasn't fucking Melanie in the open or something, It was in his locked bedroom, Tatum intruded her father's privacy and got the keys of Ryan locked bedroom and opened it to witness her father in the act, she claimed she tried to kill herself after that. Melanie was a young woman (18), and Tatum was still a kid--it's not like they were both 12 year olds. Why she felt the need to witness her father having sex with Melanie?

From Tatum self serving book:

"Melanie started to disappear for long stretches, which left me feeling painfully rejected. Desperate to know what was going on—and dreading the truth—I did something intrusive. I got a key to my father's room. When I unlocked the door, I found exactly what I feared—Melanie was in bed, having sex, with my father."

fORGET , THE TATUM , RYAN , FARRAH SHIT...WHAT WE ON THE DL NEED TO KNOW :

Some online comments about Tatum's pathological love for her father:

"I was a child in the 70s and I always had the impression that Tatum would have LIKED it if her dad hit on her. Seriously, she always seemed to consciously present herself as his (jealous) girlfriend in front of the paps."

"Tatum was a weird kid--completely unappealing, snotty and rude. She broke up a few of her dad's relationships with women (including Oona Chaplin).

"Even recently on that OWN special Tatum acted like a jilted wife more than a daughter. She would openly say stuff how he left her for Farrah."

"Tatum always seemed like had an Oedipus complex and was in love with her own father. Can't really blame her, he was gorgeous back in the day."

Tatum acting like a forever bitter scorned wife/lover, :

Tatum's quote in 2002: "He said he’s sorry," O’Neal told Premiere magazine. "He’s been reaching out to me for years. Not the way that I wanted him to, or I needed him to - I’m a f**king bitch. I wanted him to get down on his knees and grovel."

Ryan finally having enough of Tatum's non stop craziness :

Ryan's quote in 2015: "She just irritates me. I don't hate her… but life is a lot easier that when Tatum isn't around."

Please seek help.

R5 I will

It's "the Elektra Complex" in her case.

R2 It was just PR to get back at my dad.

No one gives a flying fuck about Taters O'Neal, so stop opting these stupid threads.

OP's PATHOLOGICAL PSYCHOTIC OBSESSION WITH RYAN AND TATUM O'NEAL.

Fucking cunt OP.

Tatum didn't like most of her father's women, she was particularly very jealous of Farrah, because Tatum sensed her father was very serious about Farrah and was devoted to her compared to his other girlfriends. It was normal for Ryan to have a serious relationship with a woman and probably settle down. It was not fair to make her father to choose between his lover and his daughter.

Tatum didn't like Diana Ross as well.

From Call Her Miss Ross book by J. Randy Taraborrelli - 1988

"The only sour note in this duet came from Ryan's 15-year-old daughter Tatum who, it was said by friends of Ryan's, didn't like Diana Ross or anyone else her father ever dated. Diana must have noticed that Tatum was spoiled. She got away with much more than her daughters ever did"

Tatum still acts like a scorned lover and breaks down over the mention of Farrah's name.

Tatum was an independent 16 YO when her father moved out to be with Farrah, Many teenagers move out of their parents house by that age and live independently . Tatum is acting like she was a little child or a backward teenager who can't live by themselves . Also, in her book, she made it like her dad wasn't involved in her life that much, so why was she so upset over her father moving out to be with Farrah?! Because she was pathologically jealous.

16 is still a minor so unless Tatum was legally emancipated from her custodial parent that parent still had responsibility for Tatum. Making a 16 year-old fend for herself (even she's in a nice house in Malibu) is not okay. If Ryan could no longer cope with Tatum and Griffin he should have enrolled them in boarding school or hired full-time caregivers or had the kids' grandparents move in to look after them.

After reading all the Tatum/Ryan threads here recently I have some degree of sympathy for Ryan but leaving his adolescent children on their own was a shitty thing to do, period.

More online comments:

"Tatum's nausea at the thought of watching tribute video of her dad's ex was so telling. She needs a team of shrinks working 24/7 to get to the bottom of her dysfunction."

"Tatum and Griffin were ALWAYS Unsupervised either while living with their mother or father, It's not like Ryan was ever a hands on dad before meeting Farrah . So, seeing Tatum on that reality show still being so bitter (and even hateful) toward Farrah after all these years, was very strange. she even said to her therapist on the show, that she broke down (and attacked her father) after seeing a tribute for Farrah with Ryan because she remembered how she couldn't measure up to farrah's beauty! WTF is that!"

R13 Ryan enrolled Tatum and Griffin in boarding schools more than once, and they rebelled there and dropped out of the school. They were rebellious/wild and damaged from their early life with their crazy mother.

R13 Also, Ryan was still responsible for Tatum and Griffin, he just moved out of the house to Farrah's. It's just a myth Tatum likes to spread that she was left alone to fend for herself which is ridiculous. Griffin and Patrick spent the weekends at Farrah, It's just Tatum who hated Farrah and wanted nothing to do with her, although they tried to involve her with them, Tatum distanced herself. Ryan said that in his book.

After attending Farrah's tribute with her dad (and Tatum almost having a breakdown there), Afterwards, They went to a restaurant, everything started just fine before Tatum started acting crazy and blaming her father for her heroin addiction.

At 1:25, the look in Tatum's eyes is scary/crazy.

Who needs this? No wonder Ryan cut her out. Good for him.

In Tatum's first book, She talks about visiting her ill father after learning he was diagnosed with leukemia, she said that they almost got into a fistfight after she remarked to him it was weird having a young girlfriend (Leslie Stefanson) and she left it at that, But in Ryan's book, he said that Tatum also told him "at least my mother died with dignity" of course, Tatum left out that part.

First of all, your bad tempered father is sick with leukemia and you had a shaky violent relationship with him, and he's not the first nor the last guy to have a young girlfriend, and she's still pressing on this issue making unfavorable remarks to him about it!!!.Tatum was still acting jealous that her father had a girlfriend after all these years.

From Ryan's book:

"My second act of bravery was to occur when I got home from the doctor’s office. Tatum showed up because she’d heard the death knell. I wasn’t expecting much by way of sympathy, but I sure wasn’t ready for what I got.

She verbally stripped me bare, recounting the highlights of my failed life and then, before slamming the door on her way out, she said, “Well, at least my mother died with dignity.”

I worry that if that episode in our lives comes up on the reality show, I won’t be able to manage it. But then nothing should surprise me."

In Tatum book, she says, after Ryan's separation from Farrah and learning he had leukemia, she went to her father to tell him "You're the Love of my life" (Who says that to her father??). Most probably she didn't like the fact that her father had a new girlfriend, she flipped/got jealous and another fight started.

Tatum version: "So I went.. After I'd told my father I loved him, —that he was the love of my life— The subject came up of his new girlfriend, who was even younger than me. I found that a little weird, and when I said so, we almost got into a fistfight."

Ryan side of the story :"My second act of bravery was to occur when I got home from the doctor’s office. Tatum showed up because she’d heard the death knell. I wasn’t expecting much by way of sympathy, but I sure wasn’t ready for what I got. She verbally stripped me bare, recounting the highlights of my failed life and then, before slamming the door on her way out, she said, “Well, at least my mother died with dignity.”

In Tatum's self serving book, she blamed her father when he would lock the door of his bedroom/ trying to set boundaries when he had a woman in there. Tatum would demand to be let in and Ryan refused and said "No you can't" . She recounted this as if it was wrong or some sort of betrayal from her father.

From Tatum book:

"Caroline was an icy beauty, always perfect turned out In gleaming silk blouses and gabardine slacks. She had something powerful to offer my father. My father locked me out of his bedroom, shutting the door "You don't get to come in here. Only Caroline can.' I cried outside his door for what seemed like hours. It was a huge betrayal. Nothing hurt me more than being shut out by my father with his she-can-come-in-but-you-can't" -

As sick as it sounds and I will be attacked for saying this but I really believe Tatum's main problem with Ryan that she wanted her father to fuck her.

It seems that Tatum's pathological jealousy of her father's women was well known in Hollywood as much as Ryan's temper:

"The Fawcett-O'Neal relationship was a complex one and for years Hollywood marvelled at the glue that kept it together, wondering if the difficulties imposed on it by his temper and his children from his marriage to actress Joanna Moore would blow them apart."

Some online comments:

"I like Tatum. However, I agree with those who say she's not telling the full story. I respect her for admitting her own faults that she's not a perfect mother, etc. But I do think she may be hotheaded and temperamental like Ryan. I have a feeling they may be similar temperament-wise."

"Tatum's mother Joanna Moore was on her third husband (O'Neal) before she was 30. Even Andy Griffin couldn't stand her and had her written out after four episodes of playing Peg, his love interest. The woman was a cluster fuck and you are assigning all the blame to Ryan?"

"Tatum O'Neal had an insane Hollywood childhood. That's unfortunate, but she is in no way an admirable person. And at the height of her child star fame she behaved like any other spoiled brat, expecting people to defer to her and obey her every command. I remember some tabloid story on her long ago that claimed she was "the biggest Hollywood brat since the Dead End kids."

" I think that many Hollywood actors are narcissists and bad parents as well, the difference is that Ryan's kids didn't have good mothers to live with (except for Patrick, that's why he turned out okay), Tatum and griffin's mother was totally crazy/unfit and Farrah was nuts and an addict. I really think if other Hollywood actors were given the responsibility to solely raise their children, the outcome probably would be similar to Ryan's kids. Tony Curtis comes to mind, he was self absorbed and wasn't meant to be a father, and gave some of his kids drugs but the difference is that his kids were raised by their mothers who were Not crazy."

"Tatum said in the book that when her father was going to be staying in Ireland to shoot the Kubrick film she was going to have to go back to boarding school and didn't understand why her grandparents wouldn't keep her. I'll tell you why - she was a borderline sociopath - attempted to kill a cat, stole things, made up lies, set fires. Not sure how much of that is in her DNA or was triggered by the neglect and abuse in her very early childhood development with her mother."

"I remember Ryan and Tatum reality show, if anything Tatum seemed like a bit of a troublemaker. She just couldn't let it go and really kept digging."

"Why did/does Tatum hold Farrah responsible for ruining her relationship with her father?!! by Tatum's account in her book, the relationship was ruined long before that. She acts like she got dumped by some long-time boyfriend when Ryan took up with Farrah."

"Tatum seems like she was a handful herself. A big Hollywood star at far too young an age and a very insecure big obnoxious brat. She seems like she keeps have drug related relapses and is still very insecure. But as long as she continues to blame Fawcett and having affairs with people like Rosie she'll be doomed."

McEnroe looks like Ryan in some pics and Andy Gibb (whom Tatum had a crush on) could have been a brother of Ryan.

R25 Yes, Tatum even admitted few years ago that she married John because he reminded her of her father.

Did Farrah have a substance abuse problem before she hooked up with Ryan? I can’t understand her— she starts dating a man with children still living at home and doesn’t find it odd that he just moves out of the house and leaves the kids behind? That would be a dealbreaker for me.

R27 They were not little kids. Tatum was 17/16 and Griffin was 16 YO. By the normal family standards, they were young but by the Hollywood family standards, it's normal. Before Farrah's arrival, By Tatum's own account, The father/daughter relationship was not good between Ryan and Tatum, Ryan was busy and withdrawn and she was left doing whatever she wanted with her friends (like other Hollywood celebrity kids). According to her, When she had an accident, she was visited once by her parents. So what's the big deal when Ryan moved out, though he still tried to includ them with him and Farrah. It wasn't like it was a tight knit family before Farrah.

In Tatum's mind, she was the number one woman/girl in her father's life, because all of his girlfriends came and went. Except Farrah, Tatum sensed how serious and devoted her father was to this woman and she resented that and felt threatened. It would be a normal feeling if it was for a period of time, but it went on forever, Tatum is still bitter and angry over Farrah until now.

Also, I can understand Farrah/or any other woman not wanting to raise 2 wild spoiled brats like Tatum and Griffin. Particularly when Tatum was acting hostile and jealous toward Farrah. Both Griffin and Patrick had a good relationship with Farrah, always talked about how nice/kind she was with them. They both spent the weekends at Farrah's house, because Rayn tried to include them as much as he can. It's only Tatum who wanted nothing to do with Farrah and still feeling bitter about her.

An example of Ryan's presence in Tatum's life after moving out with Farrah, Ryan threw her a big birthday party at Farrah's place, he bought her 2 expensive cars as a gift and still Tatum wasn't moved by any of that and deliberately left out that part from her book (among many other positive stories).

From Ryan's book:

Tatum turned sixteen on November 5, and we had her birthday party at Farrah’s, at the big house in the hills, and invited all her friends, including Michael Jackson, Melanie Griffith, and Andy Gibb, who was one of Tatum’s great crushes. I was upset when he died, so young and so mysteriously.

As best I recall, at the party the kids kept listening to Pink Floyd and the Rolling Stones. They didn’t play pin the tail on the donkey or spin the bottle. But I saw the way Tatum was looking at Andy and I think they played something called "Truth or Dare,” a game I didn’t understand then and don’t now.

The Diane Keaton look from Annie Hall made its appearance on two or three of the girls. The only thing I remember about the boys is that they all wanted to get close to Melanie.

I give my daughter not one but two cars—a brand-new BMW and a classic MG sports car. I had them brought to the front of the house. Each had an enormous ribbon with a bow tied around it.

The entire party escorts Tatum outside. I expect an ordinary teen response from her, a squeal, a big hug for her old man. Instead there’s nothing. She just looks at the cars and then at me. I can’t tell whether she’s confused or disappointed. “Thanks, Dad,” she says as she turns and walks back into the house.

Another creepy example of Tatum's pathological love/fixation on her father, Even though, she hated Farrah , The first time Tatum and John McEnroe wanted to have sex, Tatum dragged John to Farrah's house and had sex in one of Farrah's bedrooms.

John said in his book, he didn't understand why she wanted their first time to be in Farrah's house.

From John McEnroe 's book:

The first time Tatum and I made love, we were high, and it was terrible. Shouldn't that have told me something?

Tatum said, "Let's go up to Farrah's place." I don't even know why she wanted to go up there— We were jittery, a little paranoid. We both seemed to be feeling, "Let's just do it to do it, so we can say we did it, and then we'll know we mean something to each other, and we'll really get into it when we're in a better frame of mind."

Why would Tatum want to have sex with John McEnroe for the first time in Farrah's place?!!

From John McEnroe 's book:

The first time Tatum and I made love, we were high, and it was terrible. Shouldn't that have told me something?

Tatum said, "Let's go up to Farrah's place." I don't even know why she wanted to go up there— We were jittery, a little paranoid. We both seemed to be feeling, "Let's just do it to do it, so we can say we did it, and then we'll know we mean something to each other, and we'll really get into it when we're in a better frame of mind."

We went up to the house, up to the guest bedroom. It was very cold in that room—it felt like forty degrees! The combination of the cold and that weird buzz ... It was just awful, not an especially good start."

I still blame her father. He didn't behave like a dad to her or live her unconditionally so of course she was confused. I think he viewed her more as a professional rival than a daughter, and his maturity level was (and still is) severely lacking not to mention his rampant narcissism. Yes, she probably inherited some of those traits too but I bet if he was a normal dad to her she wouldn't be this fucked up. Divorced parents deal with kids acting out over new partners without walking out on their kids, it's called enforcing healthy boundaries. Something that douchebag was never capable of doing.

R33 You can't blame all on her douchbag father, her mother was Far WORSE. beside, being an out of control addict and neglectful mother, she let her 15 years old boyfriend to beat and molest Tatum. So you can't put all the blame of Tatum fucking up on Ryan.

The whole really fucked up thing that fucked their relationship was the pedophiles in Hollywood giving a competitive Oscar to a little girl. Very very creepy. especially when I've seen 100 performances by children better than the one she gave in Paper Moon. Even Madeline Kahn(who should most definitely have one) said how fucked up it was.

Hollywood likes to rape its children and/or destroy them. Can you blame her for being a spoiled ungrateful brat who keeps relapsing into drugs and then claiming victory and then going back to them? Then making a career out of that?

Both of her parents were sick very beautiful people. As an adult she only shared their sickness not their beauty. She'll never get over her emotional and physical love for her father nor her neglect by her severely disturbed mother nor her inability to transition to an adult career except for making money out of her unending emotional disembowelment..

An example of Tatum leaving out unfavorable stories about herself, though this story was mentioned in both Ryan and John McEnroe books, This story also indicates Ryan's presence in her life after Farrah and Tatum freely coming over and staying over Farrah's place as she wanted. Not the wrong story, Tatum likes to spread around that her father was absent from her life after Farrah, Ryan included his kids but Tatum was hateful and jealous no matter how Ryan tried.

From Ryan's book:

"As I was going through my journals for this book, I found an entry from that New Year’s morning that gave me pause. Tatum and John had come to LA to attend a party. They brought Patrick to the party with them. They all stayed at the beach house with Farrah and me.

JOURNAL ENTRY, JANUARY 1, 1985

"John and Tate have left for the airport to fly to Las Vegas so he can play tomorrow against Conners. Tatum’s first match. After they left, Patrick told me something unusual. When they got home last night at four a.m., Tatum wanted to continue to party, which included tequila shots and pool until sunrise.Patrick finally put her to bed after she started to see the pool balls two at a time."

I was so relieved to see Tatum and Farrah getting along for a change that I didn't worry that my daughter, who’d never been a drinker, who would confiscate my glass when she was a little girl, had gotten wasted the night before.

Farrah had admitted to me two months earlier, when she was seven months pregnant, that Tatum and John had offered her cocaine. I was surprised because at the time Tatum was still proclaiming her objections to drugs and alcohol. I assumed John was the instigator and Tatum just went along."

From John McEnroe's book:

Tatum and I spent Christmas in New York, then flew back to L.A. for New Year's Eve. That night, we and a few friends went out drinking, then later, the two of us were back at Ryan's house, playing pool with Tatum's half-brother Patrick. By now it was three or four in the morning, and I had to fly to Vegas the next day to get ready for an event. Finally, I said, "Look, I've got to go to bed."

Tatum stayed up, drinking and playing pool with Patrick. I don't know when she came to bed, but it probably wasn't until six or seven. At around eleven A.M., I nudged her and said, "Listen, I'm going to Vegas. Do you want to come?" I had had enough of L.A. and partying, for the time being: I was a tennis player, I wanted to go play tennis

Good point R34, but he's the one she really looked up to and was the supposedly more functional parent. There are no heros here, (including Farrah).

-R33

Stories of Tatum's jealousy from Farrah and deliberately distancing herself despite her father's effort to include her into their life (contrary to the popular belief):

From Ryan O'Neal's book:

By now, Tatum is on her way home from Canada and all I’ve been hearing on the phone from her is how delighted she is that Farrah and I have found each other. Lee has never mentioned anything to her. So I take Farrah with me to the airport to pick her up, thinking she’ll be thrilled. I’m wrong.

After our telephone conversation, I’m surprised that Tatum seems uncomfortable, defensive. All of a sudden, it’s almost as if she’s the jealous other woman.

I remember that a few years back, Tatum and I were staying at the Pierre Hotel in New York, and she overheard the bellman mention to someone that Farrah was also a guest. My daughter camped out in the hotel lobby half the night waiting for a chance to meet her. They never connected. Maybe this should have been a premonition of things to come, but of course none of that occurred to me at the time.

And so the next day I plead with Tatum, “Please, let’s not remind Farrah. Let me be this virgin that she’s found, let me keep the illusion alive just for a little while.”

Tatum will have none of it.

One day, several months after Tatum’s return, Farrah and I are in the car, and she points to a street corner we’re passing and says, “That’s where your daughter told me about you.”

“Oh, really, what did she say,” I reply, slightly sick to my stomach.

“How hard you are on women, that you’re not always a nice man, that I should be wary of you.”These were the ways that Tatum, who was living with me, tried to undermine my love affair with Farrah. She couldn’t help it.I knew what was happening with Tatum: she was angry and confused.

I just felt powerless to stop it. I was spending more time with Farrah than with her, and she saw it as a betrayal, that I was abandoning her. I adored Farrah, and felt I deserved this chance at happiness.

In my defense, when Farrah came on the scene, Tatum was pretty independent, had her friends and her life, and didn’t need me like she did when she was a little girl.

And so, to me, it didn’t seem that I was spoiling the situation. I was just happy with Farrah. Alas, the happier I was with Farrah, the less Tatum appreciated it. She believed I was withholding something from her and giving it to Farrah.

Tatum and I still retained our daily routine. We’d run or take long walks on the beach. If either of us was up for a part, we’d read each other’s scripts.

It was the evenings that were different. Tatum was no longer my regular dinner companion nor did she accompany me to parties. The evenings belonged to Farrah now.

I wasn’t sophisticated enough to know what to do to get over this hump. I had a habit of making molehills out of mountains. I had allowed my daughter to become too close to me and now I had somebody I wanted closer.

Farrah reacted in all the right ways, which moved me deeply because I suspected, even though she never said anything, that Tatum unnerved her, that she was afraid of her.

Farrah was so loving and supportive, continually reassuring me, “It’s okay, we’ll see more of her.” She’d encourage me to bring Tatum with us to the movies, to dinner, anything to try to break through.

Tatum turned sixteen on November 5, and we had her birthday party at Farrah’s, at the big house in the hills, and invited all her friends, including Michael Jackson, Melanie Griffith, and Andy Gibb, who was one of Tatum’s great crushes. I was upset when he died, so young and so mysteriously.

As best I recall, at the party the kids kept listening to Pink Floyd and the Rolling Stones. They didn’t play pin the tail on the donkey or spin the bottle. But I saw the way Tatum was looking at Andy and I think they played something called "Truth or Dare,” a game I didn’t understand then and don’t now.

The Diane Keaton look from Annie Hall made its appearance on two or three of the girls. The only thing I remember about the boys is that they all wanted to get close to Melanie.

I give my daughter not one but two cars—a brand-new BMW and a classic MG sports car. I had them brought to the front of the house. Each had an enormous ribbon with a bow tied around it.

The entire party escorts Tatum outside. I expect an ordinary teen response from her, a squeal, a big hug for her old man. Instead there’s nothing. She just looks at the cars and then at me. I can’t tell whether she’s confused or disappointed. “Thanks, Dad,” she says as she turns and walks back into the house.

Op is high and repeating themselves endlessly over a dozen threads.

By this point it’s clear I’m not going to able to console my daughter with fancy presents. The stronger Farrah believed in me, the less Tatum did.

I had treated Tatum as if she were a grown-up since she was nine, not a healthy approach to a child. Farrah can only enhance us, I thought then, which under normal circumstances should have been the case.

I now realize “normal” had long since been an impossibility for Tatum and me. I truly believe that if Tatum and I had not made Paper Moon, she would be dead, because she would have been with her mother and she wouldn’t have had the escape route that I gave her. She would have been a teenager in that erratic life with the worst of all adult behavior to imitate.

First, I saved her, made her my whole world, and then she believes I pushed her out. I remember once, out of frustration, actually trying to explain to Tatum: “You’re asking me to choose the girl I don’t sleep with. You can’t ask that of a man. You’re missing one of the chief ingredients of a relationship. I love you, you’re my daughter, but there are certain aspects of my life you cannot fulfill.”

The words came tumbling out of my mouth before I realized what I’d said. I’d inadvertently complicated our relationship.

I kept telling myself that everything was going to be okay, that we could step blindly into that blue yonder of the faultless American family. Except there was already too much spoiled fruit on the family tree.

My mother saw what was happening and understood I would have to leave Farrah to get Tatum back. My mother didn’t want to say that. She also knew I wouldn’t do it. Both my parents did.

It might have been different had I enforced healthier boundaries beginning with the filming of Paper Moon, where father and daughter were equal partners, but we acted like adult friends, and it would prove our undoing.

But at the start, Farrah and I are still confident things will work out with Tatum, Also that November, trouble is brewing on another front.

JOURNAL ENTRY, JANUARY 17, 1980: "A sad spot was the call from Tatum. She’s fought with her mother again. I listen to her story and know it’s beyond me. I turn to Farrah for help."

I’ve won Farrah. I’ve lost my daughter. It’s as if Tatum has moved to a very strict boarding school that doesn’t allow telephone calls or visits from parents. A letter a month at most. This girl was a chatterbox as a child. We’d exchange 1,000 words an hour; 950 came from her.

That spring, Tatum moves out of the beach house into an apartment in Beverly Hills, across the street from her mother, who is dangerous for her, a complex and bitter personality still struggling with addictions and depression.

There’s a famous 1981 photo of Farrah, Tatum, Griffin, and me at a Rolling Stones concert that’s always reminded me of an Ultrabrite toothpaste ad. It was the first picture ever taken of us together, the proud single father with his beautiful girlfriend and his talented, adorable children, arm in arm, laughing and happy, It would become even rarer in the months and years ahead, but I wasn’t thinking about any of that then as the four of us smiled for the camera. It was a glorious day.

We take Griffin with us to try to get him into the music school at Juilliard. We realized it was a stretch for a drummer but we wanted the best for him.

By this point, Griffin has been in and out of numerous schools, and I’m worried for his future. But at the time, all I wanted was for my boy to be able to pursue his dream of becoming a professional musician. Though Juilliard doesn’t accept him we’re able to find him a music tutor while we’re there.

Griffin and Farrah like each other and she gives him all her support. Farrah so wanted to love my children and have them love her in return,and the more Tatum withdraws, the more Farrah tries to funnel her love to Griffin and Patrick. Griffin doesn’t always make it easy. Patrick glows from her attention.

Farrah loved New York pretzels, the ones street vendors sell out of carts. They cost fifty cents back then and she would always keep two quarters in the front pocket of her purse so if she wanted to buy one she’d have exact change ready. One day, Griffin steals the fifty cents and, boy, does she ever chew him out!

We bring Tatum with us to Andy Warhol’s studio, one of our many attempts to win her over.

It’s one of my life’s greatest regrets that I didn’t establish stricter boundaries with my children. I was one of those fathers who placed too much value on being a friend to his kids and not enough on being a parent.

.....Soon after, I send Griffin to Habilitate for rehab. He’ll stay for a year. The debacle will further sour my relationship with Tatum, who thinks I’ve turned my back on her brother by sending him to Habilitate. I can’t make her understand that the opposite is true. This is one of the foremost drug rehabilitation facilities in the Western world, and besides, it’s located in idyllic Hawaii.

Farrah and I fly to Hawaii to see him at Habilitate, and while he seems to be trying hard to turn his life around, it’s as if he’s been severed from his own soul, and like the headless horseman, he’s trying to find the top of him and put it back on.

On the family front, the situation with Tatum is tentative at best. She reminds me of a jungle cat, graceful, commanding, and yet always wary.

She started dating tennis bad boy John McEnroe a couple of years before. It will not be a match made in heaven.

She managed to steer clear of addiction all those years living with her mother and brother, not to mention having a father who didn’t always set the best example where drugs and alcohol were concerned, and then she falls for a famous athlete who you’d think would be squeaky clean, and instead they do drugs together.

Farrah and I meet John for the first time when Tatum brings him for a visit to the beach house. There I am sitting in the living room, looking at him and thinking to myself, Dear God, he’s thin. He’s the number one tennis player?

He’s watching my face and he’s perceptive. He lifts his left wrist, twists it, and says, “It’s all in here.” Like everyone else, I knew his reputation for arrogant bursts of adrenaline both on and off the court, but seeing him with my daughter, her face beaming with adoration, his arm wrapped protectively around her shoulders, I’m relieved that my baby’s finally found someone.

I tell myself hopefully, he’ll settle her. I was wrong.

Farrah visits me on location for Fever Pitch in Las Vegas. Tatum slides in for a visit.

One moment she’s sitting with Farrah discussing baby names; the next she’s telling Farrah that I’m going to throw her away when I grow tired of her, the same way I did all the other women in my life.

Farrah considers the source and isn’t worried, but I am. With Farrah pregnant, the last thing I want is a confrontation between these two.

I thought Tatum’s first serious relationship would change all that. I know now her wounds were much deeper and more complex than any of us understood.

But back then she didn’t seem moodier than any postadolescent woman in love with a bad boy. Little did I know that John McEnroe would aggravate those wounds.

As I was going through my journals for this book, I found an entry from that New Year’s morning that gave me pause. Tatum and John had come to LA to attend a party. They brought Patrick to the party with them. They all stayed at the beach house with Farrah and me.

JOURNAL ENTRY, JANUARY 1, 1985

"John and Tate have left for the airport to fly to Las Vegas so he can play tomorrow against Conners. Tatum’s first match. After they left, Patrick told me something unusual. When they got home last night at four a.m., Tatum wanted to continue to party, which included tequila shots and pool until sunrise.Patrick finally put her to bed after she started to see the pool balls two at a time."

I was so relieved to see Tatum and Farrah getting along for a change that I didn’t worry that my daughter, who’d never been a drinker, who would confiscate my glass when she was a little girl, had gotten wasted the night before.

Farrah had admitted to me two months earlier, when she was seven months pregnant, that Tatum and John had offered her cocaine. I was surprised because at the time Tatum was still proclaiming her objections to drugs and alcohol. I assumed John was the instigator and Tatum just went along.

Autumn brings new challenges and opportunities. Griffin leaves Habilitate vowing to stay clean, and Tatum will soon be pregnant. She and John buy Johnny Carson’s house down the beach from me.

Tatum continues to be unpredictable. One day she’s effusive and warm, coming over to visit Farrah and me, offering to babysit her little brother; and two days later she’ll be distant and stormy, refusing to return our phone calls.

I suspect some of it may be at John’s request. I can only imagine what Tatum has said, and if I were he, and the mother of my unborn child had been telling me what a bastard her dad had been all her life, I’d be inclined to put distance between my family and the father too.

Tatum and John make an effort to include Patrick in their life, and gradually he begins pulling away from me. Not anything overt, just a subtle, quiet shift in his affection. I can’t blame him.

Patrick has always loved sports, and John, whom Patrick idolizes, is generous with him, taking him to tournaments and celebrity events, treating him like a younger brother. I pass John and Tatum’s house on my daily beach run. If Patrick’s there, he’ll join me for a mile or two, but I can sense he’s uncomfortable, as if he’s being disloyal to Tatum.

He shouldn’t have to choose between his dad and sister any more than I should have to choose between the woman I love and my only daughter.

Sometimes when I’m passing the house, the curtains are drawn, but I see Tatum’s silhouette in the window, watching. She doesn’t invite me in or even wave hello. I tell myself it’s okay, that in time things will get better for all of us.

On those afternoons when I return from my run, Farrah will ask what’s wrong. Too often I’ll snap at her, not wanting to explain because I’m embarrassed.

She’ll gently coax the truth out, then keep trying to reassure me that this is an adjustment period for everyone and that I must be patient. I wish I could believe it was that simple.

When I arrive at the hospital in Los Angeles, my daughter is glowing. On May 23,1986, she makes me the proud grandfather of a baby boy, Kevin McEnroe. Four days later, Tatum and the baby are back home in Malibu and I’m visiting with them. John has returned to New York to get the house ready. She and the baby will be joining him soon.

The phone rings. Tatum answers and I watch her face turn ashen. "Dad, there’s been a terrible accident.”

Tatum puts her hand over the mouthpiece and repeats to me what she’s hearing. “They were in a boat on the Chesapeake Bay. Griffin cut between two slow-moving boats. He didn’t know that one boat was towing the other. He saw the rope at the last second and ducked. Gio was practically decapitated.”

At first Griffin denied that he was driving the boat and tried to place the blame on Gian-Carlo. As I’m listening to Tatum relaying the details of the accident and my mind is racing. “And you’re absolutely sure your brother wasn’t driving?” I ask Tatum. “Dad, he’s saying no, and I believe him.”

A part of me knows it had to have been my son behind that wheel. Griffin feeds on danger. But like Tatum, I was desperate to believe he was telling the truth. The truth eventually came out.

So after doing what I can for Griffin, after a short trial, Griffin will be charged with reckless boating, fined two hundred dollars, and sentenced to eighteen months probation.. They won’t be able to convict him of a felony because police never tested his blood for alcohol.

Sometime after the trial, Gian-Carlo’s mother, Eleanor, calls me. I never saw her in the courtroom. She expresses sympathy for what I’m going through with Griffin, and suggests he might benefit from therapy.

Here’s a woman who just lost her son, and she’s consoling the father of the person responsible for his death, offering support. It takes me a moment to find my voice. “I wish it had been me and not your son,” I tell her. “I mean that.” And I did.

Griffin never worked in the movie business again. To my surprise, Francis replaced Griffin and Gian-Carlo and continued filming.

Our plans are deterred at the last minute. Tatum and John insist that on the way back to California, we stop over in New York for a visit at his parents’ Long Island estate.

I’d met his mother only briefly, at the hospital when Tatum was in labor, and I’d never met his father, so with Patrick and little Redmond in tow, the four of us take a car from JFK to Oyster Bay.

When we arrive, Tatum and John aren’t there and his parents greet us with perplexed expressions.

Soon I’m waiting for Alan Funt to pop out from a bush and say, “Surprise! You’re on Candid Camera”

To this day, I remain convinced that John’s parents were not expecting guests that afternoon.

Despite the awkward start, thanks to Farrah’s unerring social grace, we spend a pleasant few days there, and then politely make our exit.

And it’s not only desperately missing home that’s got me eager to leave. Several witnesses have come forward putting Griffin behind the wheel at the time of the accident, and my son needs his father.

Two decades later, in her first book, Tatum will accuse Farrah and me of deliberately insulting John and his family with our abrupt departure. But that afternoon, as we’re exchanging goodbyes with the McEnroes, we think everything is hunky-dory.

Three months later an old boxing friend of mine calls and asks if Farrah and I would like to ride with them to the wedding.

"What wedding?” I ask. “Tatum’s” he replies. Now I know how John’s parents must have felt when they saw us standing on their doorstep.

Tatum had mentioned the possibility of marrying John. She and Farrah had even discussed wedding dresses. Sometimes they would sit on the stairs that led to the beach and talk and laugh.

Tatum would range between the girl asking advice from her big sister to a peer discussing men, marriage, and babies.

“John’s parents want a big church wedding, but I’d rather do it on a surfboard on the beach,” Tatum says.

“It’s usually the other way around; it’s the girl who wants the traditional celebration and the guy who wants to get it over with as fast as possible,” Farrah replies.

“Maybe that’s because he’s a New Yorker and I’m a California beach girl,” she answers.

“I’ve only known you a few years, but you’ve always been your own person, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.”

“It’s been hard for me, Farrah.”

“I know, Tatum, I know.”

Over the past year, Farrah and Tatum have had talks like these, and never once did my daughter say anything about an actual wedding date.

I tell myself it isn’t true, that there has to be some mistake, that my daughter would never get married without her dad walking her down the aisle, without her grandparents sitting in the front row, proud of their only granddaughter and unable to imagine a more beautiful bride.

I tell myself that, yes, Tatum and I have had our struggles, but she’d never be that callous, she’d never hurt her family that way. And I can think of nothing to precipitate such hateful behavior. There haven’t been any blowups, no huge arguments, unless there was something smoldering beneath the surface, festering in that willful head of hers.

I try to think of something I might have said or done, berating myself, then alternating to denial, convinced this is not so. I call my daughter and the machine picks up. I leave several messages. No response.

And then, The Telegram. It’s dated August 1, 1986, 9:30 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time. And it reads: I’M GETTING MARRIED

TATUM 1132 EST (HTE BEVERLY HILLS CA)

I hold the yellow slip of paper in my hand, and the images begin flooding my memory: tossing a fifteen-month-old butterball into the air and catching her, delighting in her giggles; a ten-year-old Tatum meeting Sir John Gielgud in London, and curtsying when I whisper in her ear that he’s a knight;

I can hear Tatum and me rehearsing for Paper Moon , and her asking me to stop because she didn’t want to get stale. She was nine years old. I see the two of us perched together on that yellow cardboard cutout of a half-moon, posing for the photograph that would illustrate the movie poster. Everyone assumes the photographer instructed her to pout for the photo. He didn’t. She couldn’t stand that itchy red taffeta dress.

I can still see little Addie Pray standing on that dusty country road, watching Mose drive away, and as the camera pulls back, she becomes smaller and smaller. In Paper Moon he comes back for Addie. Did I abandon the real girl on that dirt road? Or has she abandoned me?

When I found the telegram as I was reading some old papers refreshing my memory for this book, it made me relive the depths of disappointment all over again. A door inside me locked the morning that telegram came. I never knew which Tatum I was going to encounter, the warm, affectionate girl or the chilly worrisome young woman.

What still bothers me most was Tatum not inviting her grandparents. It’s one thing for my daughter to want to punish Farrah and me, but it’s another to do that to her grandparents.

My mom and dad adored Tatum, were a loving, supportive presence in her life, and for them to be treated that way severed a bond between my daughter and me that has never been repaired.

Over the years, I often expressed my anger and frustration with Tatum to Farrah. She was never cold or unsympathetic. Early on she would listen to my woes about my children and offer reassurance, but eventually she would grow aloof. She had to in the interest of her own survival as well as our relationship. One day she sat me down and said:

“Ryan, I can’t be your whole world. It’s not healthy. It’s also not possible. We’re both too dependent on each other, but I have a few close friends I can confide in. We shop, we gossip, we do lunch. You don’t have anyone like that. The only grown-up men in your life are Freddie Fields and your father, and you can go to them for practical advice and they’re helpful, but you don’t talk to them about feelings, hopes, dreams. I love it that you trust me enough to tell me everything, but I’m not a sage and at times I feel overwhelmed, inadequate, and I resent the fact that you ask too much and I’m only able to give too little.”

She was right and just as I didn’t know what to say to Freddie or my dad when I was hurting, I didn’t know what to say to Farrah then.

Though Farrah and I did see John and Tatum on occasion, it was always awkward, and by the middle of an evening everyone would be making excuses about why it was time to go (sadly I rarely saw my grandchildren and I wouldn’t really start to know them until years later when Tatum and I began our reality show).

It was now fall, and we were swatting away disappointments like picnickers harassed by mosquitoes: Tatum gives birth to a daughter but says nothing;

While Farrah and I are still trying to catch our breath from the disappointing premiere, we’re hit with another setback. This time, it’s not Tatum; it’s her husband, John.

The producers of Good Sports thought I could persuade McEnroe to appear in an episode. They’d already roughed out a script that they asked me to give to him.

I never even hear back from John, not a word. I call, I leave messages. I send Patrick, who’s staying in New York, to hand deliver the script. To this day, John has yet to acknowledge the offer. On a personal level, it was hurtful. Professionally, it was humiliating.

By the new year, she and John have divorced, leaving a trail of tabloid scat in their wake. It had been coming for a while. But I don’t need to get into all those details. My daughter has written two books on the subject.

Speaking as her dad, the failure of her marriage was deeply disappointing. Though you know how I feel about John, I really did believe he’d be the anchor my daughter needed. Instead, she went overboard and soon found herself dragged under in a sea of drugs and alcohol.

Next, Tatum would be embroiled in a bitter custody battle. John would eventually triumph. If Tatum’s listening, she won’t like hearing this, but I don’t blame my former son-in-law for fighting for his kids the way he did. In fact, I respect him for it. No father wants to yank his children away from their mom.

I ought to know. I went after Joanna for custody of Tatum and Griffin, twice, for the same reason John had to duke it out with Tatum. I had no choice. At the time, my ex-wife was washing down half a bottle of barbiturates a day with vodka.

And this was back in the early seventies when the courts favored the mother even if she was unfit. “Let’s give her another chance,” the judge said.

To Joanna’s credit, when she realized she was hopelessly addicted, she showed up on my doorstep in Malibu and handed me our kids, then checked into a hospital. Tatum was seven years old and Griffin was six.

I can only imagine how hard that was for Joanna, and to this day, I don’t know whether either of my children appreciates the courage that decision took. The rest of the story gets more complicated, with fundamental disagreement between my children and me over the specifics of how it unfolded.

I can only say this: Joanna and I made some dreadful mistakes as parents, and I hope that one day my children will be able to forgive us, as they would want their own children to forgive them.

Last month, Tatum posts a picture on her Instagram of Farrah attending her baby shower. Of course, she never mentioned that in her book (among many other positive things) because it would contradict her negative narrative regarding Farrah and Ryan.

They tried to be involved in her life but she shut them down and couldn't get over her pathological jealousy.

R37 Nobody is a hero in this story. But Ryan is Not the monster as Tatum portrayed and many people believe.

Has DL turned into a Kindle?

R54 Yes

Some online comments:

"It appears Tatum refused to accept that her Father also had his own life and was jealous of Farrah being with her dad. Tatum just grew up far too quickly without any discipline. Tatum Not understanding of the love you have for your girlfriend/wife is a different love that you feel for your children."

"Both are the same difficult, this is just made to make money! She is old enough to heal her self and then have a healthier relation ship whit him. When you heal the rest of the world reaction doesn't affect any more. She wants to control him "

"They're both exactly the same - Narcissistic, can't let go of the past, unable to take responsibility for themselves & constantly blaming each other. He wasn't a good dad but clearly loved her, she wasn't a good daughter but clearly loved him. Tatum needs to leave the past behind, agree to never go there or talk about it, and move into the present and just enjoy each other's company whilest keeping a slightly formal boundary. Then the love that's a seed may grow. But this will never happen unless she let go of the past. Hope she manages it before one of them dies."

Having your child in bed with you or at least in the room with you while you are fucking your stable of mares is child abuse. How long did this go on for? We know that Ryan fucked women in front of their husbands who enjoyed watching it. This is fine. What's not fine is getting off on your children watching. Except in your fantasies.

R57 WTF?!! Ryan didn't fuck women infront of their husbands or his children. Stop the BS.

More online comments :

"Ryan IS trying to make amends, but she wants blood. Tatum wants to change the past and it's not possible. Her Father wants healing and she wants his blood. She herself has made alot of mistakes and that's on her. There comes a time that you have to admit your own mistakes. She doesn't seem to take responsibility for her own mistakes. Her insane jealousy of Farah is her issue. Grow up Tatum. He's apologized. The fact that Ryan loved Farah will never change."

"Both of these people are SO self-centred. Goodness, And this pampered father and daughter, one 70 and the other 47, are arguing about things that "happened" in the past. It is comical and so sad at the same time. Grow up, Tatum. And start taking responsibility for your own life. And it is all so fake. Didn't Tatum write a memoir before this show? Therefore, why is she saying she is afraid that her father will be angry if he finds out what she has told the therapist. Gosh, she had already told everyone everything in her book. Ryan O'Neil was probably a very immature father, But had she not been his daughter, she probably would not have had her big break in films. And this show would not have been made! (I think child actors have a very hard time, indeed and many end up in a sad place when the spotlight is no longer on them.)"

"She needs to stop blaming Farrah. I doubt Farrah knew what to do with Tatum or Griffin."

"you can take it as he is with bad temper because he is your father and you can't change that or you can leave it and stay far away of him if you consider it a negative influence to your life....but to try to change his behaviour in front of public eyes to humiliate him and show to everyone how loser of a father he is after he tried to make amends with you, show how stupid your mind functions, Tatum and explain your failures in life.."

"I don't get it.......Why would Tatum invite someone ( 20yr blonde ) to her Birthday with the intention of sitting her next to Ryan so "to make him happy" etc. Tatum blames Ryan for all her drug problems, then persuades this young girl whom has just admitted to overcoming her own drug problems and demons to sit with the same man whom she accuses of domestic violence, drug abuse, etc............Such strange behavior by Tatum in this episode."

"Ryan is an alpha male. He is what he is. Tatum has too much time on her hands. She needs to work and do something for at least 8 hours a day instead of thinking about her dad. Sort of sick actually. I think Tatum is a spoiled brat!"

"He should be forgiven for asking his brat grandson to get out of the car? so what!! families fight all the time. and why did he ask the snotnose to get out of the car in the first place. why are they leaving that out. annoying. she is so patronizing towards him"

ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING O’NEIL THREADS, POO SHOES!

Good comments about Tatum's pathological love for her father:

"Episode 1 or 2, she was grilling him and he said" I'm sorry I went to Farrah's..." But for some reason she won't let the past go and fix the damages and move on. Ryan made a statement .... Farrah's gone and she ain't coming back so what's Tatum's problem!!! I truly believe She didn't just love him she was in love with him...Farrah's gone Tatum so you got him back again. Stop whining about the past and move on with him if you love him so much. One day he won't be here and you'll have serious regrets. I'm not saying that Ryan's perfect at all but he is trying and your not. You wanna make him pay for dumping you for a woman."

"Tatum just pushes and pushes. Stop blaming Farrah. When Tatum says Farrah was better than me. He said no she wasn't. Tatum goes around in circles. I would get tired of that manipulation. She bombards him over and over. He tried and tried for her. But she resists everything he attempts toward reconciliation. And then blames him."

"Tatum has to quit living in the past!! She needs to seek therapy for her issues and quit trying to control how her dad copes with his!!!"

" Ryan is really trying here, and Tatum won't give him any slack. He's still mourning Farrah, he agreed to do the show, agreed to go into therapy, agreed to go to Palm Springs, agreed to go to Tatum's birthday party. I've seen anyone go the extra mile like Ryan here."

"Tatum is so difficult herself!! She keeps pushing him. I doubt I'd have a cool temper with someone so annoying and pushy."

"I'm all for them mending there relationship but, Tatum omg you wanted Ryan to see a therapist and he's doing that. I can't understand why she tries to get him in a bad place by poking over and over again. the relationship won't heal if she's constantly reminding him what a bad father he was. Did anyone see her face when he told her " the reason we lost our closeness was because of Farrah. She shot him a look like .... You mf don't say that woman's name around me ever!!!! 🤔 she's extremely jealous of a dead woman."

" I remember years ago reading how Tatum hated any girlfriends he had and tried to scare them off"

"I like Ryan more, She pushes him. Don't like her. Such a bad mum. And drug addicted. What a bad role model. And for that she blames her dad? Just unbelievable!"

"Jesus Tatum.....relax a little.....stop getting in his face, just go with the flow already......Ryan is coping well unless you continue to pester him........eventually a dog will growl if poked at so much!"

"It looks to me like he's trying and she's antagonizing him. She's a spoiled brat."

Clearly you haven't been reading any of these threads R58 or is it you Ryan or a pearl clutching straight woman?

Ryan you might want to read about those Hollyweird parties and your daughters own books(like having no boundaries, hmmm.) Sheesh we are gay men we're not stupid . Or even judgmental except for rape.

More comments:

"Tatum had a very unhealthy jealousy towards Farrah, then she punished him by abandoning him, now she want's blame him for her drug addiction which she enjoyed until it almost killed her."

"Tatum pisses me off! She wants his support but can’t give him support over her own jealousy issues...yes I get it I get it, he abandoned his kids “for Farrah” it’s done, she’s gone, he’s still mourning...she needs a meeting and a session because she is actually being quite selfish and in that selfishness, she can ever heal"

"These 2 episodes is when the tide kind of shifted for me & seeing Ryan isn't as messed up as much as I thought he was & I saw Tatum in a new way also"

"A LOT of people go through shit in their childhoods and they make it out fine. IMHO, Ms. O'Neal has a problem taking responsibility. I was around a lot of drugs too, as a child, with an addicted parent. GUESS WHAT? I NEVER took them. Stayed as far away from them as possible. Perhaps Ms. O'Neal needs to let go of the past. She cannot be two places at once. The future is a whole lot brighter and she should move on."

"Tatum clearly has issues. She seems to be possessive and jealous. Her father may have neglected her but she was 16. He had other needs. Why lash out at him by cutting relations for 25 years! Move on already. It's not like you were any better from your alcoholic and substance abuse losing your own kids later on."

"Tatum says she wishes her father would acknowledge how he neglected her and her brother for Farrah. Never does she acknowledge she threw away her kids for drugs! Excuse me -- get help Tatum and quit living in the past. She says she 'tried to talk to him' when in fact she was VERY accusatory. Really??? Very narcissistic individual"

"Why would you end the Washington trip for Farrah tribute like that Tatum?? Why didn't you just let him have his day. Boo Hoo when you get home, Bring up your so called horrendous life when you get home .He's 70years old. He doesn't want the past brought up .Your not going to force him to admit anything.You are wasting time.Tatum,are your children doing this to you YET??"

Yeah are publisher's after her kids yet for books about her, John, Ryan, Griffin, Redmond...? These volumes can go on for generations. We'll all be dead and people not yet born will be waiting for new auto bios on these people's descendants.

'publishers' fucking apostrophes

"Tatum SO FLIPPIN clearly sees Farrah as 'competition' (even after her death) as if she was Ryan's girlfriend. It's pathetically sad that Tatum feels she was in a competition with Farrah. She is unable to separate Ryan's relationship between her the daughter and Farrah the lover. it is total illness. Tatum completely acts like she should be all to her dad. daughter, lover, all encompassing person and his reason for living. I'm done with these totally screwed up people. Her far more so than him. "

"You could see Tatum simmering/seething when Ryan brought up going to see the home movies of Farrah. She needs to get over it. I mean, seriously, WTF? She was SO jealous of Farrah. She's a grown-ass woman and needs to MOVE ON and handle it. Feel, deal and HEAL, for God's sake."

"She is selfish, passive aggressive, and blames all of her bad behavior on her dad. She's so irritating, the suffering martyr, and wants to PUNISH her dad."

"Ryan O'Neal is light weight to my dad and a lot of Dads, Tatum. He cooperated. He did this show. He went to therapy. I use to like her best. I find him a more engaging person. I stopped seeing his movies after he beat Griffin...been there...now I know there is always another side."

"Tatum, when your kids come to you with their issues (we all have them,) will you still blame it on your Father. You don't seem to talk about your Mom issues oddly."

"The only person responsible for Tatum’s heroin addiction is Tatum. Period. As a former addict, I know what I’m saying."

"Not taking Ryan's side but Tatum lied she started that fight at the restaurant after the Farrah tribute. Those two are has beens the did this show only for the money & to see if they could get a come back not to get back their relationship."

Spot on comments:

"It is clear Tatum is bi polar. one minute she's positive next she's blowing up on Ryan in a total maniac way. she is so off the charts mentally unstable on many levels. several diagnoses i would say but first foremost a textbook classic narcissist. she is trying to blame her horrible life on Ryan. She was separated from him for years yet continued to choose drugs, alcohol even when she says her life was perfect with her three kids. she wants a fall guy, ie DAD. she has never been able to sustain sobriety for any length of time. She's likely off the wagon right now. Some people just can't be fixed."

"Watched enough of these episodes recently to see Tatum is/was clearly a very jealous individual. Terribly envious of FF. Just SO self-absorbed. You're an old lady now, Tatum (you're my age). Get over it already! My dad "abandoned" me and my 5 sibs (and mother) at an even earlier age-- we never saw the dead-beat dad except for tennis games, but we accepted things-- grew into teenagers, then adults-- and made the best of it. We let our parents LIVE THEIR lives (they are entitled to lives/happiness). Get off the pity pot and leave your poor dad alone. He's mourning Farrah-- and likely always will. And that's ok, it's HIS prerogative. He's trying to please you, clearly. You and your brother really take the cake-- spoiled brats!!! You ruined their chances of a decent life together. You did!! Just self-centered AA bullshit now. You've GOT to be so humiliated/ashamed in watching these now... always BLAMING your dad for all YOUR poor choices/shitty life. Hope you got over yourself by now! Sickening to watch you. Boo-hoo."

"Gee this seems like a selfish and immature woman. She seems more like the mind of a 20 something than almost 50. Maybe addiction stunted her. She's jealous of a dead woman ..can't he even have that outside of her ?? She has an unhealthy wife-like fixation for her father and always did in my opinion .."

"I like Tatum and Ryan but I think Tatum being jealous over Farrah 3 - 4 years after her passing is ridiculous. Also Tatum's son holding Ryan solely responsible for Tatum being an addict is BS. Tatum injected those drugs all by herself. It's an easy way out for Tatum not to take any blame at all for being an addict."

"I think Tatum is jealous and an attention seeker, No one asks about her and everyone sat at the table wasn't asking about her and rightfully so, it was Farrahs day. she is intolerant of anyone who don't kiss her butt"

"Tatum is constantly wiping away tears. I have yet to see a real tear. Families can be complicated, but it can’t always be sweet and neat. Learn from it and move on. Reliving it will not help anyone."

"He was in a fine mood at dinner looking forward to seeing his grandson till Tatum started a huge fight. She asked to see her mom's house. she is lying."

"They are both Narcs. She is covert and he is NOT - but both from the same cloth."

"Tatum has already told Ryan so many horrible things and an awful book and she still can't let it go. He comes off as really trying. It definitely sounds like she turned her own children against him. Destroying your father before the world is unforgivable."

"The man had her when he was 22. What 22 year old has one clue what they are doing? She could consider that. Twenty years old! So when she was in paper moon he was still in his TWENTIES.... He probably wasn't what any kid needed. He was a polished movie star with kids when he just got finished being a teenager. My childhood was CRAP but I had no time to indulge in soul searching, drugs, alcohol, whining or any other luxury. I had responsibility. My crappy childhood would have been so much better if everyone around me were a millionaire. I mean.... money doesn't buy everything but living in Malibu on the beach would have been better than the hell hole I was stuck in. There sure has to be an end to torturing an elderly parent at some point. We get it. He sucks. For gods sake MOVE ON. My dad was the biggest loser that ever lived....I didn't let that define me."

"After watching this, Ryan doesn't seem like such a bad guy. I mean yes he made mistakes but she needs to forgive and move on. That's the only way they can move on as father and daughter."

"She has her own guilt about what she did to herself and her kids. She can't keep blaming to take focus off that she is an addict that is dangerous"

"This DUMB Tatum who barely has a vocabulary, can't pronounce 'visceral' etc etc is a total text book narcissist. Farrah is dead and is not responsible for how u grew up so stop trying to blame ur f-d up life on her for taking ur dad. Stop the fucking memememememememe. U R A PAIN THE ARSEHOLE. I truly believe u LOVE being a martyr. feeds ur narcissism. i do believe u should work ur issues in therapy and keep doing tell all nasty BS books. get a job if u need money. a job that doesn't include selling out ur family and profiting from old history. MOVE ON. U R SO STUCK IN THE PAST AND NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE U UNLESS U DEAL W UR NARCISSISM."

"Everyone blames him but doesn’t blame the mother who abandoned the kids first. The man wanted a woman in his life. "

"What a jealous brat... she made her own choices... people are around drugs and don't use. Grow up!!! ... keep on kicking him!!! It's sickening to watch her..."

"Wow Tatum I just lost any respect I had for you. You clearly lied to your therapist when you said ... At lunch my dad got mad at me because he was in a bad mood LIAR!! Ryan got mad because you started attacking him at lunch. That man came to lunch and gave you a present then you went in to the attack mode!! I would have walked out to get away from you too.

Then you tell your therapist that he's driving around LA showing you where you were born. Sorry hunny but you clearly wanted to see your parents old house when they were married. We all heard you say it. Now you're lying on Ryan making yourself the victim so we all can feel sorry for you 😒 you even cried talking about Farrah and how she was this famous poster girl from the 70'S. Your jealousy has turned into envy and hate.

Now your trying to rebuild a relationship with your father but your stuck in the past that you can't move forward. Your father did love you but WTH he was a grown man with needs.why was it so wrong he wanted a real love story? This relationship is weird as hell!! You need him to be a good father. And from the pictures I've seen you were his companion well onto your late teens. then he met Farrah and you felt replaced and it was like ...it's me or her choose!!

You are 50 years old now and you still don't understand that as an adult male he needed passion, love, romance from a woman not his daughter!!! This was supposed to be a show about reconnecting with your father but, anyone who's watching can see your strange obsession with your father"

"I do not have sympathy for Tatum. She reminds me of a self involved spoiled child who is angry because her daddy loved his famous wife who died of cancer. Her issues go way back long before Ryan met Farrah and all she wants to do is wallow in her misery."

"Tatum needs a new significant other in her life. She’s expecting too much from her father. He is sorry already. I she will keep leading him to her slaughter table as long as she can. She wants to punish him over and over for her hurt feelings. This is beyond cruel of her to do this publicly."

"When he dies, she will have her hand out- first in line.He is right; she is a blamer. Drama queen."

"You have to watch the interview with her and Barbara Walters , she did look high but she tells stories about her husband and she said she got on heroin because of her divorce. Now she blaming Ryan. She just keep blaming everybody and can't get her story straight"

Tatum's Mother - Moore was born Dorothy Joanne Cook in Americus, Georgia, the elder of two daughters of Dorothy Martha (née English) and Henry Anderson Cook III.[1] In 1941, when she was a child, her parents and younger sister were involved in a fatal car accident. Her mother and sister died immediately, while her father died a year after of the injuries he sustained in the accident. Moore was then adopted by a wealthy local family and changed her name from Dorothy to Joanna.[2]

No wonder.

Block OP and half the thread disappears? Matt or Dumbvida?

"This show doesn't ring totally true to me. Tatum goes from hating him to forgiving him with no apparent reason. I wonder how much of it was scripted. I do think it's interesting though. I started out thinking Ryan was a total asshole and Tatum was a victim and nice. after watching most of it, I think Ryan isn't that bad far as how he seems to be trying with his daughter. Tatum seems somewhat manipulative. Both seem sort of narcissistic. they are quite a bit alike in some ways but that makes sense since it's father and daughter. "

" I don't understand why everybody believes everything that comes out of Tatum's mouth. She's been through so much therapy that she knows exactly what to say & how to say it to make him look bad. . Her life is gone to s*** in every way and she wants to blame it on somebody else...Why not Dad. She just needed to sell her freaking book !!!"

"Ryan is the more heroic of the two. He is a man with huge personal defects giving 110% with the pockets of capacity that he has. I came away admiring his striving for good."

"People change. However she is spoiled little brat. She was jealous of Farrah. Jealous of anyone he loves other than herself. She is spoiled. I want grab her and shack her tell her he won’t be here forever "

"Ryan really tried to hear Tatums words and bring joy back into their lives but Tatum just kept dragging him down that dark hole. I watched the whole series twice and I came away feeling that Ryan really wanted Tatum in his life but Tatum carried negative energy."

"His daughter delights in being cruel to him. She's very manipulative."

"Ryan needs to give in. He has met his match with Tatum and his son."

"He has admitted it but she keeps bringing it all up again when he does not act or speak the way she wants him to-what does she want? Nothing will be enough for her because he can't change the past and she is stuck in the past"

Blocking OP is the best thing I’ve done today

I had no idea of Joanna's horrific life. Too tragic.

Life keeps perpetuating tragedy and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

R80 Good

Tatum still feeling salty about Melanie (who was 18 YO) fucking her father.

tatum__oneal

Should i have been up this late ????Hmm 🤔⌚️I think that's Melanie G...looks like trouble to me

Tatum remembering the good times with her dad, after Years of smearing his name.

tatum__oneal

No comments about how we dont get along. This was a happy time for me. #tbt digging the 70's fur blanket!!

Tatum choosing the shirtless photos of her dad to post on her Instgram.

Too bad Tatum didn't invite her dad and grandparents to her wedding. Ryan looked excited and happy to see his first grand-kid.

Tatum just kept punishing him for "choosing" Farrah over her.

Well how would you feel if your partner chose Farrah over you?

Not nearly as pathological as your obsession with her, OP.

R88 She was his daughter. Tatum was/still is unable to separate Ryan's relationship between her (the daughter) and Farrah the lover. She's 50+ years old and still can't get over it. She punished her dad for decades over the Farrah thing. Tatum admitted many times that she couldn't tolerate any woman around her father. What did she expect, She would be her father's lover or what?! WTF?!

OP, I have it from a good source. Dear old Ryan fucked Tatum. Fucked her good. Since she was 12 or 13. Now she is fucked up for life.

It’s not really fair to victims of incest to say that they are permanently damaged and incapable of healing or at least coming to terms with their abuse.

Having said that, I expect volume three of Tatum’s memoirs will come out as soon as Ryan kicks the bucket in which she finally reveals the shocking truth...

There was way more than sexual abuse happening OP. But you are right in one thing. Tatum is so much starved for love and attention that she is “in love” with her father. He gave her something, as fucked up as it is.

Ryan O'Neal DIDN'T sexually abuse Tatum. I have it from a good source as well. So your word against mine.

But I agree, there will be certainly Book number 3 with new lies. She has nothing going on in her life or her career except being a professional victim and trashing her father.

You can say many things about Ryan O'Neal But he was Not a pedophile Nor racist.

No, you don’t. You have books and the books reviews on the internet you keep posting here. You are way delusional OP. You have an obsession, please, find a hobby or something. There’s more on life than obsessing over a very, very VERY flawed man who is blacklisted even in the disgusting film industry in Hollywood for a very good

Is Ryan actually blacklisted? There are plenty of truly terrible human beings in the entertainment industry who nevertheless remain employable, so I can only assume that at some point he managed to piss someone off who was higher up in the food chain.

Never said he was a paedophile. He is not. Ryan is an extremely amoral individual and probably didn’t see anything wrong on the things he did if the woman or girl in question is willing. And if there is any truth in the rumors you would say Tatum was very “willing”.

R96 How do you know I don't have a good source?! Again my word against yours. I don't believe you have a source either. Only repeating inflammatory made up lies and rumors. Ryan is a flawed man (like many other human beings) but being a pedophile and racist are not among his flaws.

R97 No, Ryan was Not "blacklisted", he just had bad luck in movies, and Yes, he was a jerk/asshole with huge ego and pissed off many movie producers.

Hollywood industry is FULL of pedophiles. So even if he was (which he wasn't), he wouldn't have any trouble getting work in Hollywood.

R98 "And if there is any truth in the rumors"

So as I said you are only repeating "Rumors".

Tatum changing her tune regarding her father.

tatum__oneal

#tbt my dad sent me this picture of all of us this am . I had never seen it . #family

Yes, it is rumors, OP. I can’t say nothing is certain unless Tatum, Ryan or someone very close to them come forward. Ryan is blacklisted because he made a mess with the wrong people who have very powerful friends.

But I’ll give you something OP. Ryan is not a paedophile and never heard a thing of racism on his part. And there is much worse people in Hollywood. The rumor I’ve heard is that he the thing with Tatum was more in the late teens and her twenties (12 or 13 was speculation on the source part) and it was willing.

OP, I wont say nothing more on this subject. There are more important things to worry about and waste your time than Ryan O’Neal. He is fine. Don’t worry.

R102 I don't really care about "Rumors" or "speculations" which literally can be anything.

Good Bye my dear.

R102 "The rumor I’ve heard is that he the thing with Tatum was more in the late teens and her twenties (12 or 13 was speculation on the source part) and it was willing."

The way you are changing your "rumor" story is ridiculous, First, you're stating it as a fact from a good source? R91 R93 then it's rumor/speculation R102 Then she was in her late teens/twenties? When she was with John McEnroe?!!! She started dating john when she was 19 and Ryan was already was Farrah for years at this point.. Another time you're saying the Ryan wasn't a pedo but Tatum was 12/13?!!!! Your made up rumors/lies are all over the place.

Tatum remembering the good in her dad now, How convenient?!

tatum__oneal

‘ I ain’t a Boy’ ! Movie trivia me and looks like a pretty cool hair guy . #jaysebring i think . I may be wrong but he was killed by the Manson family ... Don’t know who took the photo ..

I have pictures of my father smiling with me when I was a child. Still he was a total piece of shit who should never have had children. Joanna there as well looks like a charming lovely mother when in reality she was a complete nightmare. I'm not saying it was her fault either as she got a really raw deal but to think parents really care about their children from looking at snapshots is absurd.

What I need to know is how often Ryan changes his sheets.

How many of these threads have you started, Ryan-loving Tatum-hating troll? You have issues.

R105 I didn't say her parents smiling is a proof they were good parents. It's just Tatum is now remembering the good times with her dad, after her "It was all Bad" narrative she kept portraying for years.

As I said There were good and bad times, She just kept focusing and rehashing the negative stuff for 30 years.

I meant R106

Tatum can't even get herself to say Farrah's name!

tatum__oneal I remember when Red’s mom my brother was making this movie

Tatum remembering the fun good times with her dad, Now

tatum__oneal

#littledarlings @cynthiaenixon she was a leader back in 1976

Why the hell is Ryan sitting on a girl who is sitting on a girl who is his daughter? The Ryan defenders are bizarre.

R113 What are you talking about? His daughter was last one in the row.

Given Tatum and Griffin's horror early life with their unstable negligent mother, Those kids were already far damaged when they came to live with their father (who didn't know how to be a parent himself), Tatum also displayed sociopathic behavior such as lying, stealing and setting fires.

They needed to be put in a rehabilitation school. The last thing they needed was a a Hollywood fast life style and a playboy actor. But he was the more responsible parent compared to the mother.

Still, the mother was a cluster fuck and Tatum/people are assigning all the blame to Ryan, which is ridiculous and unfair.

Given Tatum and Griffin's horror early life with their unstable negligent mother, Those kids were already far damaged when they came to live with their father (who didn't know how to be a parent himself), Tatum also displayed sociopathic behavior such as lying, stealing and setting fires.

They needed to be put in a rehabilitation school. The last thing they needed was a a Hollywood fast life style and a playboy actor. But he was the more responsible parent compared to the mother.

Still, the mother was a cluster fuck and Tatum/people are assigning all the blame to Ryan, which is ridiculous and unfair.

R113 agree! The girl on his lap was the “sexy, mature” one in Little Darlings; I’d bet money he fucked her or at least frites to.

Tatum is no angel but all the people telling her to “move on” are overlooking that she was set up for this by her narcissistic father who is very good at manipulating the situation to look like “at least he’s trying” with a “spoiled brat” who can’t “get over the past” without actually owning up to his actions/behavior that made her that way. I say set up because he was more than happy for every party he brought Tatum to as his date and photo op that came with it for years; he placed her in the role as his surrogate spouse for years and they were completely enmeshed.

It is called covert incest and it is abuse.

^ at least tried to I meant

Tatum's problem is she is more fucked up than she realizes. But if she faced the problems of her family and herself head on she'd spend the rest of her life in an institution. She is continually lying to herself so she can cope with whatever life throws at her which has been a lot and when her father dies it might very well get worse. Her sole focus has been him(ignore the BS about her children) and with him not there she might implode. I mean she's in her 50s and she's having a relationship with Rosie O'Donnell? This woman is perpetually drowning.

R119 I agree that it will get Worse for Tatum after Ryan dies.

Ryan is a flawed man, probably a narcissist (like most actors). But he's Not fake Nor a manipulator, (That's one of the reason he couldn't sustain his stardom) With Ryan, literally, what you see (good and bad), is what you get.

Ask him a question and he will really let all hang out without filtering his thoughts or thinking what his words might seem to others. That's how Ryan was/is. That's why his interviews are such disaster, He maybe joking or think something is funny and say it, but to the outside side world, it's inappropriate.

Regarding, Ryan as a father. Ryan admitted many times he didn't know how to be a parent and treated his children like adult friends. But he didn't/doesn't know any better. And Yes, Ryan went out of his way to make amends with his kids in particular Tatum.

He was not manipulating or faking it as someone said. If Ryan didn't want it, he wouldn't have tried. He didn't even want to do the reality show with Tatum and only agreed because she really wanted to do it. He really tired to the best of his limited ability but Tatum can't let go and just keep blaming him for every failure in her life, which is ridiculous and tiring.

I believe, you got to somewhat know Ryan to really get/understand the man.

Also, Tatum wanted to change her father into her way of thinking, It's impossible to change somebody, He won't. In spite of him apologizing to her many times, it's not enough for her. If Tatum wanted her father in her life, either accept the man as he is Or move on but she can't do either.

That's why she blew it every time they tried to reconcile. Sorry, but No one wants to hear about his shortcomings as a father every time he sees his daughter. That's a sadistic way to treat anyone, let alone her father.

If Ryan was the monster father everyone think, He could have washed his hands of his kids LONG time ago especially after they trashed him in public for years. But he kept trying to mend things as much as he could and help them and their kids when they needed him. Ryan is not an angel but he's Not the devil either.

A wise online comment to Tatum:

"I think you have always been loved by your dad. Its not easy being a parent. I'm sure he tried his best to be with your mom, but everyone has faults, in a marriage. Try to forgive any misgivings you may have against him. whatever you hold on to the past has already happened, & remembering the negative stuff he did that hurt you will damage your relationship with him.

Everyone makes mistakes in parenting, but don't crucify him forever. I tried to do that with my mom, & i realized at the end, they're only here on earth for a short time with us. So try to love him now because he is starving for your love & understanding, before he is gone, then you will see his love for you. Make peace when there is hurt in your life."

What the pro Ryan people are very easily forgetting is this man has severe anger issues that come out of nowhere and his outbursts are frightening. Three horribly fucked up children out of 4 is horrible. Many people have Ryan stories. He sounds like when he's not being charming and appealing he is a cold ungiving selfish nasty piece of shit. A sociopath trying his best means there is no best.

He was obviously at one time a very great fuck and then he discarded women like used toilet paper.

R124 " Three horribly fucked up children out of 4 is horrible. "

Those three fucked up kids had fucked up mothers as well. Tatum and Griffin's mother was off the the chart crazy addict and unstable. And Redmond had an absentee self absorbed mother.

Don't put all the blame on Ryan. Also, these kids are now fucking adults, they are responsible for their lives.

I'm not putting ALL the blame on Ryan. But he is the constant in those three lives and gets at least 50% of the blame. That's a considerable amount. Also his first wife had a terribly tragic life and Farrah was dying of cancer yet still had the sense to put Redmond's money in a trust. He seems also to have dined out on Farrah's death for quite a while. And professionally he seems to have burned a lot of bridges. What does that tell you? His best performance seems to be the put upon unappreciated soul.

R126 Ryan has more money than Farrah, Why would Farrah leave Ryan any money?!! Also, he wasn't her husband, to be legally bound to her, I find her putting Redmond money in a trust to be very logical.

And yes, his first wife had a tragic life LONG before meeting Ryan, The woman was seriously unstable and unfit mother and she highly contributed to the early damage of her kids.

Tatum is only one looking pissed off in this photo. (After Farrah)

Patrick's the boring one, right? Because he has no discernable talent except spouting sport's statistics. Ryan might be gay. I mean for straight men what greater talent is there?

R129 Patrick is the Loyal son. I'm Glad he had been there for his father.

I'm glad for Patrick's sake he was raised mostly by his mother. His access was limited and he was able to not get on Ryan's nerves and stir the hornet's nest.

[quote]I believe, you got to somewhat know Ryan to really get/understand the man.

Okay but this is a discussion forum devoted to celebrity gossip. There may be a few people on the DataLounge who have actually met Ryan O'Neal but otherwise the majority of participants in these discussions don't know Ryan and can only speculate about what's going on based upon previously disclosed information in the books his daughter published as well as those from Ryan's various celebrity ex-girlfriends, e.g. Anjelica Huston (who alleges that Ryan head-butted her).

Ryan with his old friends, son Patrick and his wife at Farrah Fawcett foundation charity event, last Friday.

ryan_o_neal

Celebrating her legacy for the @FarrahFawcettFN #TexMexFiesta last Friday night. #farrahfawcettfoundation #fightcancer

R132 again (sorry, I hit 'post' too soon). I am neither anti-Ryan nor pro-Ryan (although I like him as an actor). I have a question for the pro-Ryan poster(s): how do you account for the unflattering portrait painted by Ryan's exes? I accept that Tatum and Griffin may be unreliable narrators due to their history of substance abuse and behavioral problems, but it's hard to dismiss the accounts written by others who were adults at the material time. The head-butting incident Anjelica describes is inexcusable.

R134 "how do you account for the unflattering portrait painted by Ryan's exes?"

I don't believe there are "Exes or girlfriends" who wrote about violent Ryan Except Anjelica Huston. Some wrote about how he could be an asshole at times but no one wrote about physical violence except Anjelica Huston.

Ryan had a bad temper and was violent at times. It is Not excusable. He was flawed like other human beings. I don't think people are always crucifying someone like Johnny Depp, Alec Baldwin or Marlon Brando for being physically violent with some of their girlfriends/wives/people.

Again, The man was no angel but not the devil either, he has an endearing good side, It's Not all dark like his Tatum and Griffin like to portray. If he was this uncaring, he would have disowned Griffin and Tatum Long time ago.

Nobody but Patrick defends Ryan. Are there other people who have written about him who defend him or praise him? I'm genuinely curious to know.

R135 ". I don't think people are always crucifying someone like Johnny Depp, Alec Baldwin or Marlon Brando for being physically violent with some of their girlfriends/wives/people."

Or John Lennon, He was bully, a very violent man who beat up/abused his wives, girlfriends or random people, and emotionally abused his first son. But people consider him a Hero and worshiping him.

People are not holding the bad dark side of these celebrities against them every time their names are mentioned, the way they are doing with Ryan O'Neal. It's a double standard.

Patrick wishing his dad a happy Birthday (last year):

Happy 77th Birthday Champ! Love ya! @Ryan_O_Neal 🥊 #PROGYM

R137 I believe they are more and more. Certainly there's a lot out on Depp. And the disaster of Brando's children is very famous. But Tatum is an Oscar winner who has written a series of books thrusting his behavior into the spotlight and then the fact that Patrick raised by a completely different person is the only person who comes to his defense doesn't look good. Streisand certainly doesn't. The only defense she comes to is her own. And she's the only one who does. Everyone else claims she's Marie Antoinette on steroids with bad plastic surgery. And now accouple of nose jobs. What they didn't tell her when she was young was that your nose gets bigger as you get older she at this point she should be full on Jimmy Durante.

Both Brando and Lennon are inescapable cultural icons despite their documented shitty behavior. Ryan never had that kind of iconic status and has never seemed especially well-liked even before Tatum published her Daddy Dearest memoir. I can’t recall the last time I read a positive article about him anywhere. It’s almost like he’s some sort of designated douchebag. Ryan doesn’t help himself much in that regard— maybe he figures it’s a doomed effort to try to rehabilitate his image and just hangs out in Malibu with his dogs. (Not bad for a designated douchebag...)

R140 So, because Brando and Lennon are a cultural icons, people don't care what a garbage human beings they were and giving them a pass on their flaws, And because Ryan isn't an icon or as successful as them, people must keep crucifying him at every chance and defining him by his flaws. Double Standard and Hypocrisy.

I don't give Brando or Lennon a pass, not at all. I'm just saying they occupy a very different place in the hierarchy. Also they've both been dead for a while, plus Lennon was murdered which tends to color everything that went before.

Personally I wish people could isolate Ryan's work as an actor (which was occasionally very good) from his tabloid-ridden personal life but that battle has been lost for a while now.

R142 "Personally I wish people could isolate Ryan's work as an actor (which was occasionally very good) from his tabloid-ridden personal life but that battle has been lost for a while now."

Totally agree

It's one thing if people don't like him as a person but to take away his accomplishment as an actor and define him only by his flaws/troubled personal life is totally ridiculous and unfair. It's Not like he was a murderer, rapist or a pedophile.

People don't give him credit for anything, Though, they will after he dies. All of sudden, they will remember the good in him.

I'm surprised that Ryan didn't disown Tatum after her self serving one sided book in 2004. He even allowed her back to his life when she came back running to him after Farrah death and tried to reconcile with her, welcomed her and his grandchild (who was obviously using him) to stay at his house, helped Tatum when she was sick twice in 2010. and agreed under pressure from Tatum to produce and do the disastrous reality show in 2011, which didn't do him any good, only more opportunities for Tatum to be in the spotlight and keep trashing her father on national TV with her contradictory stories. I remember people asking her why would she want to reconcile with her father infront of camera instead of doing privately.

All of this and Still, Tatum Blamed her father for the reality show being cancelled and for being broke in 2012. I can't imagine a more entitled spoiled brat than Tatum. I'm surprised that Ryan didn't cut her out much earlier than he did.

The man really tried with this spoiled brat of a daughter and son (Griffin).

I'm not entirely without sympathy for Tatum. I'm not sure how she supports herself now. Just being Ryan's troubled daughter can't pay the bills forever, and decent parts for actresses her age are very thin on the ground.