Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?

I mean, it happens. Johnny Carson was the biggest star in the country, the most recognizable. 20 year olds have no idea who he is.

For the time we're still alive, there was always be a large group of people who are fans of Streisand. And they will find each other in the YouTube comments section.

But I worry they die out more and more each year, r1.

Who?

Nostalgia is still alive, but the 60's is dead and the 70s are on its last legs. The same thing will happen to 80's pop culture icons in 10-15 years.

I think her talents will be rediscovered by younger generations when their tastes mature.

When do you think that will that be, r5?

Can't say exactly, but I feel her virtuosity (as far as her music is concerned) can't help but stand the test of time.

On a side note, I just watched Hello Dolly for the first time and was surprised by some of the ribald jokes in it. In once scene, there was a girl eating a banana in public, prompting her female friend to say, "Do get done with that Minnie, the men are eyeing us for the wrong reasons."

[quote]The same thing will happen to 80's pop culture icons in 10-15 years.

10-15 years? It’s already happening!😭

A rhetorical question: have you ever been to the Opera? There is a definite group of older Opera Queens that attend, and there are usually a number of attractive young acolytes accompanying them. It's not like there are that many new operas being written and produced (there are, actually, but much of the appreciation begins with the classics). I'm old, but not so old that I can remember Judy when she was still performing: she died when I was a kid. But I know a heck of a lot about her and her music and life. That's why I never take part in any arguments here on DL about the different generations or get offended at being called an elder-gay. We should be able to learn from each other. The numbers of fans will certainly taper off, but I don't think they'll disappear altogether. The Beatles still pick up new fans even now.

Dude, why do you care? Smh 🙄

When Gypsy comes out she'll be idolized by a whole new generation.

I’m in my 40s and never had any interest in her. She’s hideous, she wails, and her songs are irrelevant.

For the time we're alive, there will always be a substantial number of people who appreciate Barbra Streisand. When she does (hopefully a long time from now) it's going to be a huge event.

I was 12 when Yentel came out, and 15 when I got my copy of the Broadway Album. 24 when I finally, at long last, got to see her in concert. My generation will always have fans of hers.

After we're gone, there will be people who love her music, and know her contributions for years to come.

*dies not does.

The masc4masc guys have no interest in that diva worship crap. Many exclude guys into this type of stuff as unattractive stereotypical Fems.

Tell me about it.

I was shocked how Doris Day's death was barely a 24 hour story. It hardly got any coverage at all. I thought her passing would be a huge event like Lucille Ball, didn't you?

It seems like big music stars get a lot more coverage than big movie stars. Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and Prince got more coverage than any movie star's death got in the past 25 years.

Surely "Buyer and Cellar" brought her to the attention of some younger theater-goers just a few years ago?

It seems Midler has been even more forgotten.

Think about it - during 16 seasons of Rupauls Drag Race and All Stars not one queen has ever done Midler or even barely made reference to her.

When they had Bruce Vilanch as a guest judge, they didn't talk about her.

Even when they did a runway tribute to Mermaids they barely mentioned her when the whole episode could have been a tribute to her like they did with Cher and Judy Garland. Diana Ross has also been featured heavily because she is Rupaul's Idol. Hell, even Faye Dunaway has got her due on the show.

Does Rupaul not like Midler? Do the young gays even know who she is?

Streisand is the greatest star. If you weren't around when she was at her brightest, then you simply missed the greatest star. But there hasn't ever been anyone like her before or since.

Barbra should consider putting herself out there in "An Evening With Streisand," not singing, but as a movie star, trailblazer, singer and actress extraordinaire and do a series of appearances where she discusses her life, career and some behind-the-scenes album and movie-making. She should keep it all about entertainment and don't make it political. And make it affordable to bring in so many of the people of all ages who can't afford her concert tickets. Not that she needs it--but the audience would love it, and it would help cement her legacy a one-of-a-kind legendary, multi-talented superstar.

Her music and movies didn't stand the test of time. Her directorial efforts were mostly misfires. She doesn't come off well in interviews, she should at least *try* to be warm and/or funny, I bet she doesn't even know that she's not.

R18 Doris Day’s last film was made in 1968. Why would she be remembered by anyone under 50? She was a recluse and did all she could to stay out of the public eye.

I think music stars are more remembered than actors after they die because even if a singer hasn’t had a hit in decades, the majority of them still perform in old age so people still know who they are.

R21 Streisand is the greatest star?

I mean, c'mon, nothing against her but the greatest star? Even in her heyday (yes I was there - I'm old) she was an acquired taste.

r22, agreed her directorial efforts have been abysmal and her dramatic performances are maudlin, but her comedic performances are sheer genius.

She makes me kiss her pussy ... or else I don’t get my allowance.

I think she was forgotten a while ago. She is a Broadway belter like an Ethel Merman. People that like that music are a minority. Plus her movies are always the fug Jewish girl with a blonde goy. No one even now understands why she was popular.

Y'all are wrong. Most young people today know who Streisand is, and they know she's a legend. Young people mention her quite often on Twitter.

R20 Midler seems like a bitch and she was always an obnoxious try hard.

Ugly dog.

R27. I never was really a particular fan, but she was popular because she was a great entertainer. She didn't need to show skin, have concerts with light shows, or anything other than to be there and sing. She had a voice and a style, she moved people and made them laugh. Give me a break.

Like that guy in Sunset Blvd said to Norma Desmond, "You got enough out of it."

She's rich beyond most people's wildest dreams. There are a thousand singers just as talented in her generation--she was very, very lucky. Her CDs and movies will last as long as humanity does.

Don't worry about it.

She will be forgotten like Neil Diamond and everyone else. She’s so ugly and conceited, stupid and fat.

R32 I don't agree with you about three being a thousand singers more talented than her. If you think that, you just don't understand what she had.

If that were the case, they could've kept Funny Girl open forever. It sold out every night with Barbra. And it closed a few months after she left. She had an exquisite, unique, exciting voice. She was better than everyone. Except maybe La Garland.

I have a theory that music stars tend to be the most remembered (because music is our most connective cultural element, it’s the most easily attainable/digestible and the memory of music is among the last to go), then film stars (because budding filmmakers and movie buffs will seek out classic films, which are relatively easy to find and relatively easy to consume), then TV stars (because fewer young people seek out classic TV shows, which can be difficult to access and even more difficult to consume, particularly if the show ran many years).

Take the mid-1960s: most young people are familiar with The Beatles, The Supremes, The Rolling Stones, at least they’ve probably heard their music; they likely know Julie Andrews, Elizabeth Taylor and maybe Sean Connery; but I bet they have no recollection of the top TV stars of the era, like Lorne Greene, Red Skelton or Jim Nabors.

Just a bunch of old gays trying to keep her memory alive. Sad.

And you hardly hear anything about Clara Bow anymore either!

R34, I hope you're not a fan of Adelina Patti.

Talk about being forgotten by the younger generations.

She's always had the most awful voice. It's no wonder.

In that picture she looks like the Beast in that 80's Beauty and the Beast show with the chick from The Terminator

Gypsy 2030!

She's not even a misty, watercolored memory?

When the financing for Gypsy fell apart I knew her career was over.

Don’t worry Jason, she’s going to still have enough money to leave you then you could ever spend in your life time, go to bed and quit fretting.

R24, Lol, perhaps you're actually proving the thesis of the thread by your indignation! R21 chose those words for a reason.

bitch is old, deserves to look old. leave her old ass alone to go poop in the pasture....

Streisand was very talented and a very good singer, but God, is this woman overrated? Yes, she's one of the finest singers America has produced, but to hear all the white eldergays go on about her, it's like Streisand is the greatest singer of all time (with Judy Gargoyle cited as her only peer).

She had a good run and enjoyed enormous success in spite of making mostly third-rate movies. So what if she eventually gets forgotten? Happens to everyone.

To be fair R20, Bette does have a millennial classic under her belt: Hocus Pocus.

R20 your need for Midler to be idolized by Dragrace to prove cultural relevance is one of the best chuckles I’ve had in a while!

Barbara is an old white lady lounge singer. I prefer Aretha or even Mariah.

Gen X here and Barbra Streisand has never been wildly popular with us. It's the Boomer gays who really worship her. She's even less relevant to Millennials than she is to my generation.

[quote]I’m in my 40s and never had any interest in her. She’s hideous, she wails, and her songs are irrelevant.

I was a teen in the 80s and even back then Streisand was old people's music. The only reason I even knew about her was because my older sister had Memories on vinyl and I sometimes sneaked into her room and listened to it in secret when she was out. The only song I liked was Memory and it was a bit shameful to like Streisand so I told no one about it. Years later when Napster exploded I downloaded Woman In Love and for many years thought it was Diana Ross singing. It was a surprise, to say the least, to finally find out it's by Streisand.

I'm just trying to say Streisand was already history in the early 80s for young people. Her style of music was way past its peak. I only realized a few years ago how big she had been in the 70s since in the 80s she only seemed like a has-been songstress who was making silly romantic comedies where she always bagged gorgeous guys, and with her looks it was just all so funny.

Why did OP use a pic that is old and inaccurate? This is what she really looks like.

Nobody remembers Whitney Houston anymore, or if they do it's as a sad, immoral figure. More people remember Judy Garland than they do Whitney.

R54 yeah, I wondered about that Glee tribute episode, seemed more like a 40 year old gay man’s idea of what kids would like.

The whole "Jewish girl from Brooklyn" thing doesn't exist anymore. No one younger than Linda Richman can even relate to it.

I'm in my thirties and what I know about her is the following: she sang a song called "Papa Can You Hear Me?", she has a bad side to her face, and there's a part in one of her movies where the camera pans up over her lovingly revealing a dorky look on her face ⁠— as if to imply she's hot? Most of this I've learned from DL (the Papa song was part of a joke in Deadpool 2). I've also learned that older gays were expected to love her (and also Judy Garland, I think, although I always want to call her Judy Davis).

My bf and his younger friends (in their mid 20s) would have no idea who she is if I mentioned the name. R48 is right; I'm more familiar with Bette Midler because she was in Hocus Pocus and also some other movie I saw as I kid. If I wanted to describe Midler to younger gays, I would say the head witch from Hocus Pocus; even guys in their mid 20s will know that movie. I think of her as a less famous Joy Behar, in terms of personality.

What I learned from this thread: Who knew Hocus Pocus had such a following among young gaylings!

It is her own damn fault! She picks the worst songs. For every great song has, she puts out 20 horrible ones.

I am a 30 year old gay Jew. For us, Babs will always have an important place. But, for most other gays, she is forgotten.

[quote] Dude, why do you care?

Dude, why does anyone care about any topic posted on Datalounge?

[quote] Why did OP use a pic that is old and inaccurate?

It was in the first row of photos when I searched on google for her. It was used to promote "Walls," her most recent project.

59 agian.

For any Jew, Barbara is important. She became famous without compromising her jewishness. The fact that she refused to get a nose job alone when growing up in the 50s and 60s is enough to earn her my respect.

However she blew her own career. She had a chip on her shoulder about being ugly and always had to be “pretty” in her films to compensate. Had she continued to show the same amount of vulnerability, talent and passion for any of her other projects as she did Funny Girl and Yentl, then she would have cemented her status. Or, had she decided to go the musical theatre route head on, she agian would be legendary.

As it is now, she is a hasbeen known more for her diva attitude than her music. Which is a shame because she could have had much more.

[quote]Which is a shame because she could have had much more.

You'll eat your words when Gypsy come out.

"Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?"

No. Until my primary care doc told me he'd told his 20-something gender-fluid hair stylist he had tickets to a Streisand concert and they said, "Who's that?"

"Gay young people" are just as vacuous and self-centered as "straight young people".

Madonna is a prehistoric fossil as far as young people are concerned - she's older than their parents. Do you think they'd even know Streisand, who's much older?

The underlying thought process for this question lacks any sense of perspective.

Why would young gay people know who she is?

All but a very few celebrities have a sell by date that she's long passed. She's a random singer that your parents listen to, like Edie Gorme or Engelbert Humperdinck would be for Gen X. Jimmy Stewart, Glenn Ford, Gary Cooper, Rita Hayworth - all were HUGE stars in their day, but are all but forgotten today. Beyonce will eventually go the way of Diana Ross. Hell, I bet most young people couldn't name one Elvis song.

I think it's stranger that people are astounded by young people not knowing Streisand than that young people don't know her.

As far as classic Hollywood stars are concerned, I think Marilyn Monroe is the only one who would be known to your average random 20 year-old.

[quote]As far as classic Hollywood stars are concerned, I think Marilyn Monroe is the only one who would be known to your average random 20 year-old.

James Dean would probably make the grade, as well.

I forgot about James Dean, yes a 20 year-old would probably know him too. They would also know Elvis, just from his image alone, even if they didn't know any of his songs. Hell I'm 41 and I think I can only name about four Elvis songs, and he had a ton of hits.

So what the last few people are implying is that if Streisand had died a particularly gruesome or young death she would have a better of having been remembered?

Barbra? Try Madonna. The attention span of the new gen is next to nothing.

"How strange the change from major to minor"- Cole Porter

We saw the youtubes of her Hyde Park show and..... she was FABULOUS!

[quote]So what the last few people are implying is that if Streisand had died a particularly gruesome or young death she would have a better of having been remembered?

Well, whether she would be remembered or not, I'm sure it would have provided some people an endless source of entertainment.

WHET to that Catherine the Great biopic she was planning to direct a couple of years ago? Were they unable to find a suitable horse for the lead male role?

But why worry about it r2?Eventually that day will come in relation to all celebrities.Why is it important that they have a guaranteed eternal never ending fan club?

she will live forever in the eponymous streisand effect

p.s. how's her creepy underground doll city?

Being gay or bi is so mainstream now the kids and YAs don't seem to have any particular cultural references straight kids don't also like. I asked a gay 21 year old what his favorite music is and he said Green Day. I worked with a 20 year old woman who liked Gene Kelly, Garland, and Sinatra. It's hard to be specific about these things any more.

🤩 She's an ICON, damn it!

At DL, we DO NOT abandon our icons !

[quote]Barbara is an old white lady lounge singer.

Yes, if the lounge in question is the Grand Canyon. She belts out every damn song, no matter what it's about.

She's not my icon and never has been.

[Quote]Nobody remembers Whitney Houston anymore, or if they do it's as a sad, immoral figure. More people remember Judy Garland than they do Whitney.

Typical white racist eldergay fantasy. Take your meds, gramps.

Why does no one remember Totie Fields?

Was she the last Jewish superstar?

Well, what has she done for them lately?

Barbara Streisand has never been cool with gays since the '80s. She's corny. Her music is for elderly ladies.

[quote] I think it's stranger that people are astounded by young people not knowing Streisand than that young people don't know her.

Who the fuck ever said anything about "astounded"?

You are of course putting words in my mouth.

[quote]Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?

You did with your headline: "Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?"

What would you call that but shock or surprise?

But, then again, the Streisand queens are usually as bad as any of the other stans that inhabit the DL, so we can call it whatever you'd like.

Now she's completely forgotten?

Lat week, in the Faye/Sue thread, a bunch of you were saying how Hello Dolly the movie is now a beloved classic among the younger generation.

Now no one knows her.

Could you pick a lane and stick to it?

In the 1990s, she was charging a fortune for concert tickets. David Letterman, when he used to be amusing, noted that she was at a dinner and belched, at which point every dinner guest had to fork over $50

Barbra's music catalog is archaic to Gen Xers, very old-timey, never mind people younger than us.

It would be like Boomers where were into hard rock in the 70s listening to Rudy Vallee.

People who appreciate good voices will always love her and appreciate her, but she was behind the times even when she first started out. Movies like Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly couldn't compete with Midnight Cowboy and the gritty, realistic films that were starting to turn up. She stayed behind the times for just about her whole career.

I really think that, if she'd signed on to play the role that Jessica Lange ended up playing on The Politician, it would have given her a new audience of binge watching teens and young folks who would have been able to ask "who's that funny older lady?"

Gypsy won't be made, obviously, but if it was, the only way it'd be relatable to young people is if they cast current pop stars as June, Louise, or the strippers and sexed it up a bit and made it a bit trashier.

The last big entertainment Jews were Seinfeld and Sarah Jessica Parker but Barbra is still by far the biggest Jew.

Have some of you people lost your fucking minds?! Streisand is one of the biggest stars of the past century. Sure there were others in her league in achievement and fame, but she's right up there in the legendary category among the greats.

Jesus Chrsit, just because some 25-30 or even 40-year old doesn't know that much about Streisand doesn't mean she doesn't matter. Some of you wouldn't recognize talent or an outstanding generational figure if he/she bit you in the ass. I didn't grow up with Judy, Siinatra. Monroe, Hepburn, Babe Ruth or FDR as my entertainment, sports or political idols, but I know who they are and recognize them for their talent and accomplishments and greatness. Get over your prejudice about Barbra Streisand. Not many even come close to her.

R21 = Streisand Queen.

R92, chill dude

She's not an "outstanding generational figure." She's not legendary, either. She's talented for sure, but her overwrought singing style will never reach as many people as Frank Sinatra or Aretha Franklin (to name just two), and although I enjoy watching her in comedies there are plenty of other comic actresses I would rank higher.

It doesn't help that she sings practically nothing but banal ballads.

Barbra Streisand is strictly an American superstar. She's never been that big of a deal outside the US. In non-English speaking countries, she's hardly known at all.

[quote] What would you call that but shock or surprise?

"shock"??? You ARE putting words into my mouth.

"Mild surprise" is different from "shock" or "astounded."

[quote] Lat week, in the Faye/Sue thread, a bunch of you were saying how Hello Dolly the movie is now a beloved classic among the younger generation.

[quote] Now no one knows her.

[quote] Could you pick a lane and stick to it?

You seem to be somehow under the mistaken impression that all the posters on this forum are ultimately just one person.

Actually, we are many people, each one with our own (and different) opinions.

Though I know it would be easier for you if everyone who fits into the category of "Not-Yourself" in this universe were all the same person , that is just not the case.

I’m 41–not young—and she’s forgotten to me in all but name and face recognition. It happens with the passing of time, I guess, but I have never found anything remotely interesting or engaging about her. Her voice to my ears is bland and uninteresting. Even though they’re way beyond my years, I do like Judy Garland and Liza Minnelli. But Streisand? Nah.

I went to a 50th Anniversary showing of "The Wizard of Oz" at the Fox Theater recently.

There were only a handful of kids. Everyone else was 50+ (that's generous).

Judy Garland is another great star who is in the process of being forgotten.

What this thread makes abundantly clear is Barbra needs to do something dramatic and huge to put her in the history books and make sure people will remember her.

You'd think cloning her dogs would have done the trick.

The fact that she comes across as an insufferable cunt, makes it easy to not give a shit about her.

[quote] The whole "Jewish girl from Brooklyn" thing doesn't exist anymore. No one younger than Linda Richman can even relate to it.

Yeah, this. I was going to say this.

Also, she built on the sentiment that people had for Fanny Brice, the real Jewish girl from Brooklyn who made good in film. (Do any of you remember her?) Like Neil Simon plays and old Woody Allen movies, we're losing a lot of the neighborhoods/people for whom those reference meant something.

Oh please. Funny Girl's massive success was because of Barbra Streisand. The musical had little to do with Brice, and the movie even less. Brice was old fashioned and out of style in the age of the British Invasion and Motown. Her movies probably got played on the late show, but that was it. It was Streisand whom the public adored and who came in droves to watch her starmaking performance.

The knocks against her looks are tiresome as well.. She wasn't conventionally pretty, but she could be strikingly beautiful. She held her own with O'Neal, Redford, and a host of other hot men. She also had a nice shape as well. Full figured with a hot ass. Can't expect people who think anorexic porn star chic defines beauty to get it, but that doesn't make it any less so.

Barbara will always have the voice like butter but there is a kind of schmaltz with much of her work that makes it seem dated. I loved Simply Streisand but when she turned into Barbara Strident I lost interest.

The idiot upthread who brags he can’t distinguish Streisand from Diana Ross doesn’t really cement himself as a credible commentator on 20th century pop superstars.

[quote]Also, she built on the sentiment that people had for Fanny Brice, the real Jewish girl from Brooklyn who made good in film.

Fanny Brice wasn't really known as a film star -- her major successes were in vaudeville and (later) radio ("Baby Snooks.")

OP, in a word, yes. And I can’t wait for more contemporary singers to be forgotten.

Barbra, during this phase, always looked like the female version of the Ron Perlman Beast character to me. I found, when looking for a picture of Perlman as the Beast, that am not the only one to have noticed this association.

Movies like Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly couldn't compete with Midnight Cowboy and the gritty, realistic films that were starting to turn up. She stayed behind the times for just about her whole career.

Funny Girl was her first film and she won the Academy Award, how did she "not compete" with Midnight Cowboy? I don't even like her and I'm defending her because a lot of these comments are bizarre.

[quote] The idiot upthread who brags he can’t distinguish Streisand from Diana Ross doesn’t really cement himself as a credible commentator on 20th century pop superstars.

Thanks. Well, what can I say, besides Memory Streisand was a total stranger to me. I was 12 in 1984 and I was all about Boy George, heavy metal, Pat Benatar and other pop and rock stars of the day. Streisand was a total non-entity in that space which is why I couldn't recognize her voice. Diana Ross had a brief career resurgence with Chain Reaction in '85 which is why people my age knew who she was, besides her connection to Michael Jackson that is. For us Ross and Streisand were old fogeys and their music lacked any kind of street cred. But like I said I did appreciate Memory as a magical song, although now that I think of it I was probably only 9 or 10 when I kept sneaking into my sister's room and listen to it. When I really started getting into pop a couple of years later she was only a distant memory.

If there is an Andrew Lloyd Webber in heaven Streisand will be given the full Grizabella treatment and ascend to the heavyside layer on a tire and be reborn as a teen pop princess the likes of Taylor Swift, but Jewish of course.

As long as there are people who appreciate a beautiful voice and good singing, Barbra will be admired. As long as there are people who study singing, Barbra will have fans. Did you not see the recent video of Faith Hill's daughter driving with her father and singing "What Kind of Fool" with Barbra and Barry? The daughter is 22. She knew all the words. Believe me, young people know who she is.

Gays my age are obsessed with trash like ariana grande and cardi b so yes op young gays don't care.

People Who Need People ?

Are there any left ?

I remember Elton John and Carpenters albums where hot young acts (of the time of the recording) did covers of their greatest hits. Why did Barbra never go this route, it would give her some good will with the younger generations.

People today are into Cardi B. Not this old hag.

I’m the 41 year-old from above who knows almost nothing about Streisand and who doesn’t “get it.”

Honestly, her appearance when she was young is the most interesting and appealing thing about her to me. Some of those profile photos with the beehivesque hairdo are striking. If we must reduce things to appearances, her eyes are gorgeous. And I mean all that sincerely.

But people revere her singing and I REALLY don’t get it. I am not trashing her or bashing her. I just don’t get it. My mom used to say Streisand’s voice is perfect and I never understood why. She had a Streisand Christmas album and it sounded so cheesy to me, especially the frantic way she sang “jinglebells jinglebells jinglealltheway!!”

My mom also turned me onto Laura Nyro because I love Tori Amos and my mom thought she was Nyroesque. I really like Nyro a lot, including her voice and especially the way she used it.

The song “Stoney End,” which Nyro wrote and recorded, is so soulful and has a kind of tongue-in-cheek dark humor to it. Streisand’s cover of it may be better known, and it is similar in its production but it sounds so, so Las Vegas cheesy to me. All of the soul and the grit has been replaced with shiny production and a “perfect voice.” It’s not only the quality of the voice, but also the delivery. It makes me think of when Celine Dion tries to get gritty and “street” and ends up sounding like she’s intellectually disabled.

That’s all very critical, but it’s not meant to trash Streisand. She just doesn’t resonate with me. She is so practiced and polished and just seems inorganic and somewhat inauthentic to me, like her music is meant to be a product rather than a creative, emotional expression.

Can anyone address this aspect of her? Do you hear something different than this when you listen to her? Or do you like her because of this?

Laura Nyro’s original Stoney End for comparison. They’re similar. But Nyro sounds to me like an artist and Streisand like a Vegas lounge act.

R120. I disagree. Nyro’s version of Stoney End is fine, pleasant but forgettable. Streisand’s version is classic Barbra putting her distinct style on a song. Her vocals are strong, memorable, soulful while giving it an unmistakable pop sound that translates well throughout changing musical tastes and styles. The background vocals make it even more fun as both Barbra and backup singers play off and blend so well with each other. My only regret is that Streisand didn’t sing more pop/rock songs that show her range and versatility like Stoney End and Enough is Enough. Barbra was so good at upbeat songs but she generally preferred songs with a rich, lush, orchestral arrangement.

Barbara is corny. Schmaltz and cheesey arrangements. Her early TV specials were kooky but when she tries to present herself as a sex symbol (!) and activist, it all went down hill. Plus she is fat and lazy.

r119 I'm also 41 and I also LOVE Laura Nyro. She was incredible.

I love Laura Nyro too. She's my favorite of the singer songwriters from the 70s. I find Carole King and Joni Mitchell somewhat overrated.

R124 I like Joni, but my favorite song of hers, which I LOVE, is Woodstock. It’s the most Tori Amos thing I’ve ever heard from anyone who’s not Tori Amos. And like most of Nyro’s music, Joni’s version of her own song is little known, but a cover version by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young was a huge hit and I don’t like it at all.

Is Carry Simon a distant fourth in the race between 70s female singer songwriters, with Mitchell, King and Nyro being probably the top three?

No disrespect to Barbra, but her image is not cool For today’s sensibility. She is perceived as not just old school, but also corny and ultra white. Her fans as viewed as old, snooty, or extremely gay oldschool, which is Exactly the epicenter of culture today. She lacks a hip vibe in today’s world

Honestly, aside from my mom’s Streisand Christmas album (which I hated) and The Prince of Tides (which I thought was pretty terrible), all I’ve seen of her is a couple of Oprah interviews. This is the one in which she infamously made the crew spray paint her microphone white, which strikes me as insane, and in one interview she was there to discuss the book she “wrote” about her house. Which, as I recall, was a picture book consisting of pictures of her house. And she went on and on about her house and the things she likes, and Oprah gushed and the audience swooned and I thought “fuck this narcissistic old wacko.”

Well hello! Welcome to my home!

That fucking compound of hers in Malibu sucked a lot of time and creativity out of Streisand. She spent YEARS dicking around with that stupid compound instead of doing anything interesting career-wise.

And her taste is ugly! Her whole colonial era obsession was embarrassing. I wonder if she realizes she wasted decades sitting around her ugly house. She could have made more movies but was too lazy.

[quote] Her fans as viewed as old, snooty, or extremely gay oldschool, which is Exactly the epicenter of culture today.

Extremely gay old school is the epicenter of today's culture?

Read this with Brenda Dickson’s voice and diction in your head!

“In the basement of the barn Barbra put in a village of shops, which were inspired by Hector Guimard and the Art Nouveau era. This is where Barbra keeps many of her antiques. "I have a lot of stuff, and instead of storing it just in a basement, why not make a street of shops that would house these things?" she says.

In the main house's family room, it's easy to see that Barbra loves monochromatic color schemes. "I like textures, different textures of the same color," she says. "I find it calming."

When designing a living space, Barbra tends to stick to one or two colors per room, which she feels is less distracting. "I don't respond to too many colors, too many prints," she says. "Then, I don't hear the conversation as easily."

Two dogs sitting on the couch

Why on earth should a person who is so ugly, inside and out, be remembered by anyone. So she had a nice singing voice, although a horrible speaking voice. She couldn't act for shit. Lots of people have nice voices, maybe better ,and spend their lives singing to their kids or in a church choir. The money she made and the fame she had greatly exceeds her talent. It's the same with Madonna. In ten years she won't be known by young people either and while she's not quiet ugly outside inside she is disgusting and it's also outrageous how much fame and fortune this no talent accumulated.

It's sad to me that someone like Valerie Harper who just died had only accumulated a couple of million and these really awful and no real talent people have probably close to a billion. Of course not has much of a miscarriage of justice as most corporate heads having billions, but still...

Since she first started, Barbra has been square.

“I love mixing monochromatic florals with brocades. With them, you can hear the conversation easily. Dogs as accent furniture is fun, as long as Maid cleans up after the animals. I allow animals in the home. I am a modern woman. When I sing, I always warm up in the Warmup Shop. All you do is summon Brent to wheel you down to B6 in the underground mall, scan your retina, and then let out your inner canary! I used canaries during the excavation. Several died from the noxious gases. That’s why you use canaries when you build your subsurface home shopping malls. Fuck that Amazon Prime shit. Give me a proper mall. I am an old-fashioned modern woman. Who is that man over there? No, him. Excuse me, young man. Who are you? A lighting grip? Are you sure you’re not a fan? I really don’t mind signing an autograph. What is your name? Come here.”

*pushes dog off sofa*

“Sit, my love. Let me sing you a song.”

Did she build the mall to turn her house into a Graceland after she dies? What a weirdo.

R137 You made my day, and what’s frightening is I don’t know what was parody and what was Barbra.

I think it’s kind of funny that people think others are critical of Streisand because they underestimate or don’t appreciate her talents. She is as overtly off kilter as Tom Cruise is and as narcissistic and self-aggrandizing as...well, I won’t go so far as to say Donald Trump, but honestly not far off.

Be on the alert. There is a crazy woman in the basement.

[quote]Gays my age are obsessed with trash like ariana grande and cardi b so yes op young gays don't care.

Your grandparents likely hated or didn't understand the music your parents listened to.

Your parents likely hated or didn't understand the music you listened to.

You're in the same boat with the younger generation and no one ever learns.

Remember when "jazz" was a bad word?

Sometimes things aren't bad, they're just [bold]not for you.[/bold]

The People Under the Stairs are construction workers who didn’t ask for an autograph.

Thank you, R140. 😘

She supposedly never had a nose job cuz it would affect her singing voice. But in the picture posted by OP, her nose is looking fixed for sure. Much shorter for one thing. Has she decided to remove the schnoz not that her voice is gone?

Oops...I meant “thank you, R139. 😘”

It’s very weird that Barbara built a vanity basement with stores and poses in it. I think the Trump comparison is accurate. She is very delusional and self-involved.

[quote]When designing a living space, Barbra tends to stick to one or two colors per room, which she feels is less distracting. "I don't respond to too many colors, too many prints," she says. "Then, I don't hear the conversation as easily."

Is she autistic?

So will Jason eventually become the crypt keeper giving candle lit tours of the basement shops as Malibu crumbles into the sea?

Age isn't the issue.

Betty White comes across as a good sport, whether she actually is or not, and is still present in pop culture. She seems (seems being the operative word) to be in on the joke so people can relate to her.

Streisand comes across, as noted by others, as completely insufferable - one of those "don't look me in the eye or speak directly to me even though I'm standing right there" people.

Or schizophrenic, R148. From her quote, it sounds like she may be “in conversation” with every color and every print. Too much noise!

I wonder if all those big bucks will go to her son of the guy who married her and puts up with fucking her all these years without asking her to put a bag over her head. I will never believe the marriage is for love and not because a failed actor wanted to live in style.

I knew people who knew her in high school and at the beginning of her career when she was doing small clubs. These people didn't know each other and the one thing they all said was that she stunk to the high heavens like she had not bathed in weeks. The one who was an accompanist to performers at one of the clubs said she used to run by him when she was introduced and he just about passed out from the BO.

This thread is mostly populated by asshole haters who somehow get their kicks bashing Barbra for no other reason than their irrational hatred of her success. Eat it, haters. She's had more success than you ever will.

No one is doubting that she is successful. We are simply pointing out that she is a crazy loon.

SHE HAS MORE MALLS THAN YOU DO R154 AND YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS!!!!

Some of the people here are so fanatical and kooky!

Nose 1

Nose 2

[quote]SHE HAS MORE MALLS THAN YOU DO [R154] AND YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS!!!!

More malls? But, has she bought a zoo?

R156 I love that nose, and she was styled perfectly. The long angles of her nose and chin are offset by the angular haircut and her neckline.

R158 She has more zoos than Dr. Doolittle!! Barbra proves you CAN have it all...IF you have a voice of molten velvety chocolate.

If a 77 year old recluse neighbor asked you to visit her underground mall, eat yoghurt in it, and visit her unmanned doll shop, you would say NO!

Of course I'd say no. Why would I say yes to someone I don't like? I don't do it in my life and what would make me do it because someone is famous? I detest zoos, if she really has them she should be ashamed. Animals don't belong on display. As for a mall. I've been to malls. The only possible reason I could imagine to go to one would be if I got a big urge for a Cinnabon.

“I don’t have any Cinnabons in my subterranean shopping mall. I find they keep me from focusing on the conversation.”

I want my basement mall to be early eighties - with Orange Julius, Spencer Gifts, and Musicland.

I thought that was Mustafa in OP’s pic.

Listen to Oprah R161 on this.

As soon as she shoots GYPSY, she'll be back on top again.

Her Gramma Rose will blow everyone away.

Oh please. You have to be able to act to be a good Mama Rose. She will play herself and Mama Rose certainly didn't have a Brooklyn accent. When I was a kid I saw Angela Lansbury play MR on stage and years later Tyne Daly and both were amazing as was Rosalind Russell in in film. No way could Babs do that. I can puke at the thought of her destroying and hamming up Rose's Turn. It's basically a woman having a mental breakdown in song. No way.

Christ, Mamma Rose was born in North Dakota, there’s no way Barbra’s going to pull that accent off!

Did Rose have dragon lady finger nails?

In the Babs as Great Grandma Rose version, her lover will have a long final scene where he tells her how beautiful she is and how he can never love anyone again. There will be so many filters on the lens that Babs will look younger and fresher than Baby June and young Louise. "Rose's Turn" will include new lyrics written especially for Babs and a flashback scene where she has a quarrel with her mother who never told her how beautiful, talented and smart she was. Roslyn Kind will play Rose's mother.

Does her pussy stink?

I was just looking at display cases for my semi-precious gemstone collection, so I can certainly understand the need for a mall!

Streisand: I would like to do some home renovations. I have a PASSION for design!

Designer: How wonderful!

Barbra: First of all, I cannot hear the conversation when more than one color is present in any room.

Designer: Oh...well, uh, all right. We can work with that. Monochromatic color schemes can be lovely!

Barbra: I like textures!

Designer: Great, that will help to prevent monotony is everything is the same—

Barbra: I like to feel things!

Designer: K.

Barbra: With my fingers and with my eyes! My eyes have a passion for texture!

Designer: mmmkay. Gotcha.

Barbra: Also, I would like...

...

Designer: How about mixing patterns?

Barbra: Yes! Good, Designer! I shall keep you! But that’s not where I was going. I would like...a metrorail-style excavation under my home! To keep...

Designer: Um. Mummies?

Barbra: Haha! So silly, Designer! Of course not. Who am I, Michael Jackson?

Designer: Haha! Of course not!

Barbra: I want to keep a shopping mall down there! You know, GAP, The Limited, a Sunglass Hut.

Designer: Huh?

Barbra: I won’t go in those stores, of course. The Neiman Marcus and the Saks will be the only ones I’ll staff.

Designer: Wait, like a real mall? You’re serious?

Barbra: Of course. For my antiques and my exquisite things. Little exquisite things.

Designer: So, like, is this open to the public?

Barbra: If you mean the public of me, then yes! Haha!

"All I need is 88 bucks, Papa!"

"So go get it from the ATM in your mall, bitch!"

[quote]“In the basement of the barn Barbra put in a village of shops

What kind of barn has a basement?

Why would young gay people care about her? She rarely even acknowledges gay people (which is ironic considering her son is gay), so why would gays care about her? She’s nothing special.

Just a normal woman cradling a doll. You see it every day.

Great (insane) photos here. I think there is a point where too much money makes you crazy.

Barbara's life in Brooklyn, long before she dropped an "a" and built her own private mall in Malibu filled with real dolls she can cradle 24/7 to compensate for her childhood deprivation:

"All I had was a hot-water bottle with a little sweater on it. That was my doll."

Oh, there's that funking story about the hot water bottle doll again. Babs is a self-absorbed cunt who deserves to be forgotten. This greedy, grabby, money hungry bitch needs to get over her ugly self and go away.

Are gays supposed to look up to a cunt who once said, “I feel like a faggot!”

OP, I'm 35 and I'm not familiar with a single song of hers besides that duet she did with Bryan Adams. And I do like music from the '60s - '80s, but I just don't remember her stuff being played much on the radio when I was a kid. Or possibly I've heard some of her stuff before without realizing it was her song.

It happens. I am not a big fan of hers, but I would tell the youngins to watch "What's Up, Doc?" It is still one of the most hysterical movies ever made. She's great in it.

And boy, does she ever look scary today. I recently saw Vanessa Redgrave in a Shakespeare series hosted by her daughter Joely. Vanessa Redgrave is 82, has aged gracefully, and she is still quite beautiful. Barbra Streisand looks terrible with her facelifts and nose jobs. She has lost the quirky looks that made her attractive. Now, she's just another Bride of Wildenstein.

I was born in '79 and I only wish I could forget that Babs exists.

If Barbra were smart she would have teamed up with Murphy already and gotten a gaggle of new fans. You can expect new generations to know you or older ones to give a shit forever. You need to find a new act. Some people crossover better than others. Look at Jessica Lange, Betty White, Glenn Close, Angela Lansbury, Lucille Ball, Kathy Bates, Bette Davis etc. Young people know them and still idolize them. Done have material that holds up, some reinvented themselves.

If Barbra were smart she would have teamed up with Murphy already and gotten a gaggle of new fans. You can’t expect new generations to know you or older ones to give a shit forever. You need to find a new act. Some people crossover better than others. Look at Jessica Lange, Betty White, Glenn Close, Angela Lansbury, Lucille Ball, Kathy Bates, Bette Davis etc. Young people know them and still idolize them. Done have material that holds up, some reinvented themselves.

If Barbra were smart she would have teamed up with Murphy already and gotten a gaggle of new fans. You can’t expect new generations to know you or older ones to give a shit forever. You need to find a new act. Some people crossover better than others. Look at Jessica Lange, Betty White, Glenn Close, Angela Lansbury, Lucille Ball, Kathy Bates, Bette Davis etc. Young people know them and still idolize them. Some have material that holds up, some reinvented themselves.

Her voice is way too nasally and when she "belts it out" in EVERY song I just turn it off.

She is a SHIT singer

Gen X gays have never really been into Barbra. Millennial gays even less so. She's definitely a Boomer thing, and hasn't translated to younger generations who just don't give a shit.

I used to ask my Boomer mother to please, please stop playing her records all the time.

With Gen X gays it was ALL about Madonna, for better or worse.

R186 I’m interested in your idea of Murphy brining her new admires. I’ve always loved Lange, though I don’t think of her as a gay icon, but do you think young people discovered her through his shows? Are young gays watching his shows? The only people I know who watch Queer Eye and Drag Race are straight so I’m wondering what gay following Murphy has if any.

I bet to millennials Babs and Madonna are assumed to be of the same generation for all they know or care.

I only know about her because of jokes about gay men being into her stuff. That's about it.

I think I saw a music video with her singing a duet with a younger woman where she sounded very forced and "musical theatre-ish".

R20, I'm more familiar with Bette Midler's music than Barbra's. Her '80s songs were still in heavy rotation on adult contemporary radio and dentist offices in the '90s.

You want to know who is more forgotten than either of them and who the younger people truly know nothing about? Liza Minnelli.

I’m Gen X. It’s all about Tori.

[quote] I think I saw a music video with her singing a duet with a younger woman

This?

This?

Everyone else has done projects that have younger generation appeal, except for Streisand. She did that one movie with Seth Rogan but if you blinked you missed it. Liza did multiple seasons of Arrested Development, and Murphy has given renewed life to many others. Babs is too full of herself to realize that she needs to pick projects that require leaving Malibu. Saying no to the Netflix job (which sounds good on paper) was just another mistake.

This is so bizarre and so, so bad.

I seriously do not understand the appeal. She’s so cheesy and seems mentally ill.

Barbra is still clinging to one of the golden rules of stars from her era: "movie stars don't do tv." That was a HUGE thing back in the day, but the world has moved on and it's no longer relevant. There is no longer any "comedown" for a movie actor to do tv, but Barbra is stuck in the past.

She has done TV, R201. I would never know about her PASSION FOR DESIGN and her otherworldly baby doll outlet mall/underground bunker had she never been on Oprah.

So what the OP is really wondering is why Barbra's singing career went straight down the shitter?

R203 Here’s your answer, and possibly also the answer for what has caused so much gun violence in the US. Forget video games. This performance makes me want to go on a rampage.

r202 I don't mean interviews, I mean an actual acting role on television.

And that Oprah interview was truly bizarre.

OP are you keeping your Xanax Pez dispenser filled during these trying times?

If she wants people to remember her, she could always participate in one of those has-been music cruises which get advertised regularly on nostalgia channels like Antenna TV. She could open for KC and the Sunshine Band.

I'd rather see her on the next season of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

She could always consider Dancing with the Stars.

R197 : I looked through a list of her Duets and I'm pretty sure it was the one she did with Celine Dion.

R208 She is not moving out of Malibu for that shit show.

R171 I don't know how Babs' puss smells but I'm sure it's demanding and difficult. Just like her.

Barbra cannot commit to other projects at this time of national crisis. She must remain steadfast and resilient and protect what matters most.

With malls all over the country going out of business, you expect her to abandon hers? Without her patronage, what in the world would keep Szbarro Chez Barbra in the black??

I've only heard talk about her from boomers, over the years. She hasn't been relevant in decades.

I'm in my early 60s (people tell me I look in my 40s) and I have never cared about her, or Judy. Not cared about. Not not cared for. They mean nothing to me.

She’s one of the stable of utterly bland, dreadful singers who Oprah marched out to worship, along with Kenny G, Josh Groban, Sarah Brightman, Andrea Boccelli.

I always assumed that these people paid the show to get on. It only makes sense because I don’t know anyone who has ever bought music by any of these people, and Oprah got R-I-C-H from her show and did a shitload of product placement. Unlike these dreadful non-personalities, Barbra does have fans...but fans for a book about her “passion for design”?? Even her fans have to draw the line there, right?

[QUOTE] I always assumed that these people paid the show to get on.

Yes, they did, either with money or coke. Oprah's got a habit to feed.

R217 Do you really think Oprah has a coke habit?

I always assumed she was a Pepsi gal.

To Generation X and younger, Barbra is the same as Judy, Liza, etc... a relic from ancient times that nobody today is remotely interested in.

I’m Gen X. They’re not the same. I like Judy Garland. I grew up with the Wizard of Oz. I didn’t grow up with Liza, but I saw Cabaret five or so years ago and I was blown away by Liza—so much talent and charisma. She’s wacky but a real star. Barbra to me is pure Vegas strip. I just do not get it.

All of my friends fell in love with Babs when she had the mega-hit with Donna Summer, Enough is Enough. 6th grade and we played it over and over.

Also, her hits in early 80’s like Woman in Love and Coming In and Out of Your Life, her duets with Barry Gibb, and even Neil Diamond’s You Don’t Bring Me Flowers are partly why no one in my Gen X orbit will ever forget her.

I make sure my nieces and nephews listen to extraordinary talent like Barbra and Judy partly so they can have a sense of history, and simply to know good music.

As a kid, I was exposed to great music by my older cousins. Elder gays need to pass it on to the young so they don’t grow up to be complete philistines.

As a kid in the 80s who was tortured by my mom’s awful Streisand Christmas album every year and by “Wind Beneath My Wings,” I thought Barbra Streisand and Bette Midler were the same cheesy, over the top sentimental nutbag. Then I saw Bette Midler being funny and Babs being humorless and I finally realized who Babs is, humorless and cheesy, and who Bette is, humorous and cheesy.

[QUOTE] Woman in Love

That was her? I always thought that was a Bee Gees song.

The Bee Gees wrote Woman in Love. She sang the hell out of it.

I’m a teenager (GASP, I know I must be a lying old pervert with nothing better to do than pretend to be a fifteen year old) and our generation’s gays don’t idolize Barbra, or Marilyn, or Judy, or Bette, or Joan. We idolize people like Gaga, Taylor, and the gay stars of today. This is just how time works, we don’t worship people from the fifties and seventies, we worship the stars of our own time.

I’ve seen everyone in concert -

Bette Midler in concert 1990s was genius. She brought the audience to amazing highs and then would reduce them to tears with a ballad like The Rose. And her banter in between songs was truly hilarious. An incredible emotional rollercoaster. Nothing like it.

And Babs is great with her audiences. She might be grouchy in her interviews, but onstage she is funny, charming and gracious. She is a star.

I wonder what the name recognition for "Woman in Love" would be if you polled millenials and Gen Z.

Hey, Gen Z kid @ R225, tell me about your peers. I worry a lot that there’s a neo-Nazi movement brewing and spreading among your generation. Is that happening?

R228 I don’t hang out with kids like that (obviously) but I know a few kids that are Neo Nazi-ish. They’re the ones I’m really really nice to just in case they decide to show up to school with an AR-15.

I think the reason why the Millennials and Generation Zers don't follow the older stars is because they're simply not exposed to them, unlike us Baby Boomers and Generation Xers, who learned about them through old movies on TV, and popular talk shows and variety shows that frequently presented them as guests. That's why we were familiar with the likes of Joan Crawford, Frank Sinatra, and Ethel Merman, among others.

That long, straigh, parted in the middle hair style is not doing her any favors.

R230 True. I learned about who Barbra was through Glee.

[Quote]Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?

Nope, but I'm loving it!

What are Babs' three most popular songs that anybody under a certain age would even know?

“Evergreen”? “The Way We Were”? “Woman in Love”? “People”? “You Don’t Bring Me Flowers”? “Enough is Enough (No More Tears)”? “Guilty”? “Papa Can You Hear Me?”?

Honest reactions:

“Evergreen”? Schmaltz.

“The Way We Were”? Saccharine schmaltz.

“Papa Can You Hear Me?” Cheesy showtune schmaltz.

“Woman in Love”? “People”? “You Don’t Bring Me Flowers”? “Enough is Enough (No More Tears)”? “Guilty”? I have never heard of any of these.

What made Barbra Streisand so phenomenal in the early 1960s, was relative to what was going on in at the time - Streisand was supremely talented and unique in every way. But those days are long long long gone. I lost interest in her in the 1970s, though I hoped she'd to graduate to great film roles. With a couple of exceptions, it didn't happen. Streisand became the epitome of kitsch - that's what she'll be remembered for, if she's remembered.

How can this be remedied? After Streisand's death (I say she has 18-20 years left), her image and singing could be packaged and marketed the way other dead stars have been. There's plenty of material to work with, her young 1960s image and voice should be used. Did you know that a pleasant movie star like Audrey Hepburn has been marketed so heavily since her death that AFI voted her the THIRD greatest movie actress of all time?

Now the bad part. All of Streisand's ex-husbands, friends, co-workers will be dead, so it will be up to son Jason to put this together. Shy, never held a job, incompetent Jason. Not gonna happen.

Yeah R235, I don't know if I see kiddoes getting into that dated style of music. Some artists make hits that remain iconic and known forever, like the Beatles, and others like Babs make music that is very specific to a certain time and doesn't translate well to later generations. It happens.

Would you say the same for Frank Sinatra's 1967 schmaltzy "My Way"? The only reason any of Sinatra's songs are known or cared about today is because, number one, he was in MOVIES. Number two, they play New York New York at ball games.

“Would you say the same for Frank Sinatra's 1967 schmaltzy "My Way"?”

Yes! That’s literally my retired parents’ parents’ nursing home soundtrack. Not even kidding. Schmaltzy and ancient.

R239, people probably [at least subliminally] know of Sinatra's music from eating at any old sit-down Italian restaurant, lol.

There are a lot of people who remember her, but as in the beginning of her career, it's a very urbane, theater loving kind of person who does.

[quote] I bet to millennials Babs and Madonna are assumed to be of the same generation for all they know or care.

Madonna still had pop radio hits in the 90s through early 2000s, so most millennials are familiar with her stuff still being popular. The generation after possibly doesn't know or care who she is.

I work with several Millennials who say that they have heard of Madonna but don’t think they’ve ever heard one of her songs. That’s the same way I am with Babs.

R244, wow. I guess that's possible with the very youngest millennials. Even as late as 2005, 'Hung Up' and other songs from that album were everywhere -- it was difficult to escape it or never hear it.

R245 That doesn’t mean that they listened to it. The reality is that the 80s/90s zeitgeist wore off and those of us who grew up in the Madonna era looked forward to or at least noticed her music. If you weren’t of the era, it would be easy enough to overlook.

As our Gen Z guest stated, it’s just a function of time passing. I’m sure Barbra Streisand releases albums now and then but I’d never notice it if she does.

And as a Gen Xer, I remember my parents saying all the music of my era sounded the same to them. Here I am at 41 hearing mostly music that all sounds the same, with processed robovocals over EDM or hiphop tracks.

Who cares? Their loss. In any case her concerts and CDs sell and sell out- Still! And there are young people at those concerts. But really- who cares? No one lasts forever- although I am quite confident that people will be listening to Streisand for decades beyond the heyday of her young career. I'm sure young people don't pay much attention to Aretha, Nat, Frank, Judy, Ella etc either. I have no idea. When I was young and was a Streisand fan, the OP's comment was never anything that occurred to me. Appealing to the young is not necessary- they are the least sophisticated and knowledgeable about the arts anyway.

Gen Z here again. We know who Madonna is, if not from our parents who grew up with her music, then from the fact that Like A Prayer and Papa Don’t Preach and Like A Virgin are on the 80’s station a lot. Also her songs are in things like Stranger Things and IT so some people know her from those things.

The music we listen to with regularity between the ages of -- approximately -- 15 to 25 become our "core" music; therefore, if you're exposed to earlier music artists during that age, you're going to be more familiar with their stuff going forward; and, thus, you're less likely to be enamored of music that comes after those ages. My parents and older siblings helped expose me to earlier artists, including Barbra Streisand, even though my "core" years were ~1985-1995. Like the above poster, modern music sounds utterly bland and tuneless to me.

I'd say if anything more Millennials/Gen Z know who she is now because of Glee (I know I know)

I feel like the most I’ve seen of Barbra Streisand performances is actually Lea Michelle’s impersonations of Barbra Streisand on Glee.

[quote]I make sure my nieces and nephews listen to extraordinary talent like Barbra and Judy partly so they can have a sense of history, and simply to know good music.

Good Lord. That’s bordering on child abuse.

It didn’t help that the lazy bitch never went on tour or made appearances anywhere. That’s like asking to be forgotten, which is exactly what happened.

Well, at least Barbra will always have this song for the youngs to remember her by.

All this talk of Barbra’s basement shopping mall bunker and not a single GAP in-store playlist provided? What has become of DataLounge.

Well if we know anything about Barbra it is that she needs to be in control and ultimately, good or bad, that is how her career has played out for her as she has made every decision of song/album release, how her music is leased even down to every image that is put out there. What will be interesting is after she dies what happens, Jackson, Monroe, Elvis and even Hepburn as mentioned above have been lucrative for their estates.

I think she has a huge potential in death depending upon the greediness of her estate, which will endorse products and lease music and her likeness for things she never would have allowed in her lifetime. I think death could be the biggest boost and a huge revival of her career more than anything else she might do. But of course if there is anyone who could control things beyond the grave, I would put my money on her.

[quote]r196 I’m Gen X. It’s all about Tori.

Tori takes on Babs.

Maybe Barbra can release a rap album and do some duets with Drake. Imagine the potential!

R4 young people already don't know 80's pop culture icons. I know youngergays in their 20's who don't know who Stevie Nicks is.

Actually I think having a black rapper on one of her new tracks might help. It seems work for other white female artists.

And Stevie Nicks is still present in the culture. She still tours and gets lots of press and attention. And even someone like that isn't very well-known to younger people.

I'm with R220.

I was born in '79. I knew who Judy and Liza and (best of all!) Julie Andrews and Angela Lansbury were because of the musicals we saw at school and home. And I think that people feel hugely sentimental for the above ladies--not just for their gifts, but for the time period.

I've never understood the appeal of Barbara--or understood why it should be greater than (let's say) the appeal of Madeline Kahn. Are people sentimental about Barbara, or did the gay guys (I'm a gay gal) like her because she could be parodied in an over-the-top way?

There's nothing even remotely interesting about her, except for her nose.

She’s interesting when she’s parodied. I can’t watch her perform without seeing and hearing a Maya Rudolph-type impersonation for some reason. She’s so grandiose and self-impressed. I don’t find her performance entertaining but I do find a minor entertainment value in witnessing how entertained she is by her own performances.

All her movies where she's supposed to be a great beauty, come across like a parody where she's not in on the joke.

I never thought I'd live long enough to see a thread titled, "Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?" get to 266 replies.

[quote] "Did you ever think you'd live long enough to see Streisand mostly forgotten by gay young people?"

I'm not sure if the OP's intent was to talk about Streisand or inquire into our longevity.

I feel bad for people who don’t like Yentl. The fact it got made with her starring and directing is a pinnacle of Hollywood achievement. It’s mind boggling. The quality of what resulted isn’t as relevant. I’ve never read criticism of it that was unfair but it certainly worked for most audiences. And it made money

R268 I’m sure it has something to do with her, but she is missing a big opportunity not bringing Yentl to Broadway in this time when it seems like half of them are based on movies. Hell if Babs could play her at an advanced age, Lea Michele could still pull it off, and add Grofsauce as Avidor and you would have an even bigger draw.

R268, a local theatre shows classic movies every Tuesday and they’ve scheduled Yentl for later this month. At last night’s showing of The Man Who Knew Too Much, they had the original trailer for Yentl - the audience laughed at it.

[quote] The music we listen to with regularity between the ages of -- approximately -- 15 to 25 become our "core" music

Your idea is correct, but the age range is off. More like 12 to 22.

r52 actually when I was in junior high in the early 80's Barbra had a resurgence when she made Guilty with Barry Gibb

One of my fondest memories was walking by the forum in Rome and hearing a Peruvian pan pie band playing a catchy tune and having to hum/sing with it until I figure out it was Woman in Love.

“I kiss the morning goodbye, but down inside you know, we never know why.”

OP Well, you seem horrible. JUST HORRIBLE

When I was a gayling and this was a hot album, I would wake up early on Saturday mornings and listen to this album through headphones and feel very sophisticated

I wonder if Barbra Streisand's career had taken a different path...would we be happier with her, would she be happier?

Say Streisand's "big" career had ended two years after Funny Girl on Broadway, and she had become primarily a cabaret singer with an occasional album. Variety and talk shows, TV acting, a few supporting roles in movies - say she's like Kaye Ballard with a better singing voice. Would Barbra Streisand be a gay icon? Would younger gays embrace this old woman with a fine voice and a sense of humor? (She kept that, had to being that she's not a superstar).

Yentl is mind blowing?????????? Okay.

When I was young there was a theater in Manhattan, Theater 80," that only showed old movies from the 1920s - about the 1940s. I learned to love all of those old, mostly dead, actors. I especially became almost obsessed with Carole Lombard and not only saw all her films but did my college freshman English term paper on her and got an A + from a professor who became equally charmed by her and we would have long discussions about her and old films in his office. No, nothing funny went on. I also took a class on old movies at The New School.

I don't think young people have that opportunity these days. I doubt there are any theaters anywhere that only show old movies or places that play old music from the 60s or 70s or 80s.

R272 That was...four...decades...ago.

[quote] say she's like Kaye Ballard with a better singing voice

Ouch!

I think if most Millennials barely know a thing about her, I doubt whether Gen Z knows if she's still alive or dead.

That's the thing with these kinds of questions--you are really asking, "Do ignorant millennials know anything about X?"

Well, ignorant people of any age will only know what is shoved in their faces via advertising, radio, internet clickbait, and TV.

But there will always be cultured people who are interested in the history of everything. People who are making their careers in the arts will always know Barbara, Judy, and everyone else--from the pre-war period, from the 19th century, going back.

R280 Does anyone of us even know if she is alive or dead? She could have been replaced with a really advanced Fembot downloaded with all her recordings, which might be how she sings so perfectly each time.

Did Babs seethe with jealousy and rage when her contemporary and arch rival, Aretha Franklin, was frequently named as the greatest American voice (of popular music) by many publications and music critics? Did she go on a shopping spree in her basement mall as therapy for the betrayal and hurt?

I'm 46 and couldn't care less about this self-obsessed bitch.

R230 That's a good point. Those of us who grew up in the 60s, 70s or 80s tended to be exposed to a lot of music and movies of the past. Old movies were a staple of local TV. Now if you don't get Turner Classic Movies you probably never see them. Also today it's a youth-dominated pop culture. Realized this when my favorite adult contemporary radio station started playing 1D and Bieber. Up until then they hadn't played anything that appealed mainly to adolescent girls. A lot of the movie stars we saw on the big screen as kids (like Streisand, Redford, Newman, Jack Lemmon, Charlton Heston, etc.) weren't kids. We didn't have music stars like Bieber, Shawn Mendes, or Charlie Puth. We went to Springsteen concerts. So, yeah, my parents played Judy Garland records, they played My Fair Lady, Bing Crosby, and they liked some of our music like Billy Joel and Elton John.

Jesus R285, did your family reside in a jar of mayonnaise? What terrible whitebread taste y'all had.

Did fans go along on tour and stay in campgrounds and sell veggie burritos in order to be able to see the most Streisand shows?

R261 Exactly, Stevie is still everywhere, but I feel like the 25 and younger continuously want novelty and are dismissive of anything "old". Because of social media they just exposed to and are only interested in latest new thing, no appreciation for anything classic, be it music, film or TV.

Well, Joan Rivers was an octogenarian still known to everyone because she worked her tushy off every day.

Q. How have Beethoven, Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich survived? They don’t appeal to most young people either.

A. Because they’re great. Their art, talent and creativity and brilliance survive and thrive because they’re great. Same with Streisand. Her art is different, but her appeal will live on; maybe not as it was 50 years ago but into the foreseeable future.

Streisand sang kiked up goy dreck. She has no "art." She did have some talent but it's long gone. She's already forgotten or unknown by the vast majority. There will be no revival of interest in her work because it's too self indulgent, terribly dated and largely unmusical. Her entire career was a grotesque display of egotism.

I remember when Amy Irving was on David Letterman promoting Yentl. They showed a clip and David said Barbra looked like David Brenner's nephew.

While scouring the internet for pictures of David Brenner’s nephews to compare them to Barbra’s Yentl as per R292 I came across this interesting tidbit:

LOL at R290 comparing Streisand to Beethoven, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich. Only on DL and in Elderwhitegay land.

LOL at R290 comparing Streisand to Beethoven, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich. Only on DL and in Elderwhitegay land.

[quote] Jesus [R285], did your family reside in a jar of mayonnaise? What terrible whitebread taste y'all had.

R286 My folks were born in the 1920s. They liked the music of their era. If you think they or I didn't listen to performers who weren't white, or whitebread, they did, and I did (and do) , a lot. I just didn't think the point I made meant I had to list my folks' entire record collection or mine. But hey sorry we didn't meet with your high standards.

Never understood her popularity. What did she ever do for me? All I saw was her using her "fame" to make all the money she could. Miss frizzie head only looks out for herself.

[quote]And Babs is great with her audiences. She might be grouchy in her interviews, but onstage she is funny, charming and gracious. She is a star.

As per the teleprompter. She doesn't sneeze unless it's written down.

R297- one of the most vocal celebrities since 1990 advocating legalization of same sex marriage- followed with millions of her own $ for the same- called on a boycott of Colorado which turned around its anti LGBT legislation, etc etc. There are some very very stupid people on this thread. And I mean STUPID. She's jewish, she's female, she's powerful, and she's outspoken- that pretty much explains what's going on here. She has made a big difference in the world putting her money where her convictions are- aside from possessing one of the greatest voices of all time and perhaps the most varied and productive catalogue of recorded music ever by a singer of any genre. Most on this thread don't have a clue about it. Not a clue.

I'm a Baby Boomer, I grew up with Barbra Streisand, I remember when she was a charming kook--many years before her transformation into a nightmare of vulgar "perfection"....so I KNOW about her. And I'm telling you, OP, I don't wake up thinking about her, I don't go to sleep thinking about her, and I do not worry about her, or the state of her incredible fame, or her lack of incredible fame for a younger generation. In fact, I don't really think about Barbra Streisand at all. Amazing, isn't it? I mean, can you possibly stand it, OP?

Don't set off your pacemaker charlie. Nobody likes that old bitch Streisand. Most have never heard of her. She's ridiculous, as are her remaining fans. And she's not even among the top 20 greatest singers.

"one of the most vocal celebrities since 1990 advocating legalization of same sex marriage"

charlie (R299), Streisand ONLY got on board publicly with gay rights when she learned her son was gay.

R299 = senile Charlie, who always plays the "Is it because she's a woman? Is it because she's a Jew?" card anytime Streisand gets criticized. He adores her blindly and refuses to notice that she's become a grotesque parody now.

Charlie's a good egg.

charlie's eggs are powdered

R303, charlie can worship Streisand all he wants for all I care. But when he comes here and spews his bullshit and condemns others with "There are some very very stupid people on this thread. And I mean STUPID," he becomes a target. I think he likes being a target...er Martyr. And those stories about his "friendships" with Katharine Hepburn and Lena Horne. They're NOT gay. btw.

Any Millennial kid who's seen reruns of The Nanny knows who Barbra Streisand is. She's mentioned all the time. Being Millennials they probably don't bother to look her up on YouTube, but they know her name and that she was a big deal.

Meanwhile, Fran Drescher did the Jewish girl from Brooklyn (Queens, same diff) in a far more "modern" way than Babs, and I guess replaced her as that stereotype for younger viewers, in the same way that you don't need Woody Allen's perennial character if you've seen Larry Charles.

Streisand's real problem was that she was a terrible narcissist. No doubt this came from deep childhood insecurities, etc, but the upshot was that she was an attention-fiend to the detriment of all her movies after Funny Girl, and the stage fright that allegedly stopped her continuing with Broadway or with concerts came from the perfectionism of the deeply self-involved.

R307 Yes, millennial kids were just chomping at the bit for Nanny episodes, “My five year old can’t wait to see Fran Drescher each week and her witty Jewish humor” said no mom ever!

Well, it's on constant late afternoon rotation where I'm from, R308, so I suppose someone's watching it. Heaps of millennial kids watch The Brady Bunch and Friends, so why not The Nanny?

No sitcom was ever aimed at five year olds.

The Nanny was written by Fran's gay husband and has all the women ooohing and ahhhing at large penises and most all penises like they're gay men.

Here I am- I was not ever friends with Horn and Hepburn although I met and knew them both- Hepburn was gay in my opinion, Horn I doubt- but I don't know. And yes, there are some really stupid people on this thread and probably Trump trolls, misogynists and anti-Semites. Absolutely. I also am not bothered by being ridiculed for being 66. I hope all of you make to 66 and in good health too. BTW, I am a published scientist and associate professor in one of the greatest universities in the world- have not lost my marbles yet. What do you do R303?

[quote] Jesus [R285], did your family reside in a jar of mayonnaise? What terrible whitebread taste y'all had.

Sorry they were not woke enough in 1975 for you. They'll try to do better in their next lives.

charlie R311, you're a clerk in a store. We know that so don't lie your way out of it. Calling the people here Trump trolls is a lame excuse. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, have one. Making your usual speeches gets you no where, but apparently you have not learned that.

The above is the truth R313. DL can be a very sad place.

Ancient Barbra Streisand is sad. She never was very good BUT now everyone knows! She's rich as fuck but her career means nothing to anyone. She fucked it all up and turned out dreck that no one will remember. She's a joke. Her stans are forced to make up stories about themselves to make their zealotry sound sane.

Make up stories about themselves? Such as? Please be specific. What have I made up? Ancient is bad- right- old. Well I hope then you die before you’re 65 R315 to spare yourself of the midsection Barbra obviously endure- me to. I’m a miserable old 66!

Streisand’s last shows sold out as all of them do (and received raves- Google them, it’s easy by the way)- 2 of her last 3 CDs went to #1, the other to #8 and she continues to harass Trump (maybe that’s your angle) without fear, and put her money where her politics are- do you?.

In any case- her dreck- music from the greatest composers and lyricists of the past 100 plus years (plus some of her own) and the largest and mast musically diverse catalogue by a singer in recorded history- all entertainment awards, all available lifetime achievement awards and a medal of freedom, multiple humanitarian honors: you’re right! Dreck that no one remembers! A pathetic old age!

Anyway, do all these millions of old queens pay through the nose to hear live and continue to buy her entire catalogue starting with the very first in 1963. They have pink and blue hair and wear their best caftans- right? Bet you have vids of her shows to prove it just like you think I’m a sales clerk. Are you Donald Trump?

Barbra Streisand was never a big deal with Gen X gays. It's the Boomer gays who really love her. Her music and whole presentation is from another era. The diva behavior and all of her weird eccentricities have always seemed quite old-fashioned to us.

Madonna was THE big star for Gen X gays, for better or worse. Personally I've only been a casual fan and not hugely into her.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind visiting the mall in her basement. Just for the freakshow factor.

charlie has a meltdown either if you diss Streisand or if you make unkind comments about his age, so I realize now this thread was a complete double-whammy for him.

She looks like a cat.

R321 And yet she didn’t get Grizabella for the movie? I wonder if they didn’t do CGI and relied on cat looking actors if she would have been a shoe in?

"Horn and Hepburn although I met and knew them both- Hepburn was gay in my opinion, Horn I doubt- but I don't know"

He knew "Horn" so well he can't spell her name. She never got the bill because he sent it to Gizella Horne on West 23rd.

I’m 27 and very far from the norm. I was always an old soul and grew up in a rural area where I was the only gay in the school so I spent my evenings, weekends and summers watching reruns of old tv shows, TCM and YouTube. I also found DL in my late teens. My last boyfriend was 36 and he worshipped Britney Spears so that will maybe tell you how popular Barbra/Judy/Liza/Bette are even with older millennials. I am frequently the only person at the table who has heard of someone or at least the only person who can list some credits as others know only the name e.g Liz Taylor. The young gays in my age range like Cardi B, Nikki Minaj, Ariana Grande and mainstream artists like 21 pilots and Travis Scott. It’s always a little jarring although I suppose it’s progress when a very effeminate gay man tells me that the music of an artist like 21 Pilots or Post Malone speaks to him.

Last weekend I went to see Barry Manilow and Lorna Luft at the Bowl. I went alone because my friends all said “Who?” And “No thanks” and there were very few people there under 40. I saw a billboard for Joan Jett/Heart while I was there and grabbed a $20 in the gods seat for two nights later. I was also one of the youngest people there. There were some groups of older millennial women but my Lyft driver who picked me up (20 something) thought he may have known the name Joan Jett but didn’t recognise any song of hers I mentioned.

Barbra, to get back on topic, is I think known among most younger gays as a name. Most. The ones that don’t know Barbra don’t know anyone over 30 for the most part. But in terms of knowing that she was in Hello dolly or Yentl or being able to name 5 songs - nope. It’s just that she’s a famous name, a diva, a friend of the gays and maybe Meet the Fockers. Bette is known for Hocus Pocus and again as a name. I’ve been able to put some friends into Bette’s 80’s movies by introducing them to Big Business with Lily Tomlin as Lily is very well known because of Grace and Frankie and her frequent interviews, chat show appearances these days. When Bette was in Hello Dolly I saw it 5 times. Most straight people under 40 I worked with had no idea what I was talking about as neither Bette nor Hello Dolly triggered any recognition in them. My gay friends were also not overly enthusiastic and most asked what Hello Dolly was about. I was kind of sad to see so few younger people in the audiences but that’s life.

A few people here have mentioned Sinatra but I think his star is starting to dull too. I don’t think I have ever heard him mentioned by anyone younger than my parents. If my friends know him it’s as a ‘name’ rather than familiarity with his work. I would also say that with the generation older than me he’s remembered as a fat old Italian crooner rather than the skinny, charmer of his movie days. My parents (53 and 51) remember Sinatra but I know my dad remembers being bemused by all the fuss on TV when he died and my dad thought that hours of Larry King asking his daughters to go into every detail was ghoulish and he couldn’t imagine who would want to know because an old guy had died and that happens and after all the songs he sang were sang by everyone else too so just go see Tony Bennett if you’re that upset.

Barbra could probably endear herself more if she was more accessible. She could do more interviews on popular podcasts, be seen around town more, accompany her husband to more events. It’s my understanding that her husband goes to funerals of his peers and Barbra doesn’t accompany him. Around WeHo I hear anecdotes about fairly obscure people repeated by young gays who have likely never seen their work but they live on a little because they were out and about and had personality. What does Barbra do all day up in her compound? I hope she’s happy up there, genuinely. As a serious introvert even I think I would go stir crazy and fall o to depression if I couldn’t go for a walk, have lunch, sit on the pier with some coffee and a book.

All of your charlie's comments on this thread should end with, "Good DAY to you, sir! I SAID, good DAY!"

They don't bother me R325. Lots of the posters on this thread cannot name a single painting by Picasso, or a famous role by Pavarotti- or a song Lena Horne is identified with. That does not mean these great artists are not relevant. In Streisand's case, at 77 she remains one of the top concert draws in the world and best selling recording artists- perhaps not to those in their 20 and 30s- but you certainly see them at her concerts. Life is not only for the young or we would all kill ourselves at 50.

Anyway, I don't really care. Streisand is a show business genius and for those who only know her as a diva, suggest looking beyond a few of her well known syrupy hits and look into her recorded catalogue and you will find one of the finest singers who ever lived singing some of the greatest music of her day. Or look into Pavarotti, or get to a museum to see what the fuss was about Picasso. This does not mean great artists can do no wrong or are saints (Lord knows Picasso was a monster and Luciano clearly had an eating disorder.)

And if you are not curious, well, that's a bit sad. When I discovered Nat King Cole, Judy Garland and Billie Holliday it was like walking into a garden. I have the entire recorded catalogue of Leontyne Price. It's heaven on earth. Find her interview celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Lincoln Center on YouTube- then look into her music. You will not be sorry.

So this is why I knock the silly trolls on this thread. Hell, I don't care if they like Streisand. But don't look the other way because of ignorance and lack of curiosity, which all that I see on display on posts that ridicule me- and her. R324, she's a very private person and a bit enigmatic. She's never courted the press (although she tweets, mostly about politics) unless for her work, as an activist, or with a philanthropic purpose. You'll have to access her yourself- it's all out there if you're curious as to just why she was and is such a big deal. Check her out. Check out Maria Callas, early James Taylor, Pet Sounds (Beach Boys), Joni Mitchell, Aretha Franklin (SEE Amazing Grace taped and recorded in the 1970s.) Don't be dissuaded by bile and ageism.

My favorite relatively current female artist like (Joplin, Morrison, and Hendrix) died at age 27- was Amy Winehouse. Now there was original talent. So sad to lose her and so young.

Barbra Streisand is only a superstar in the US, and as has been pointed out here younger generations aren't that into her. She's never been a huge star internationally, even at her peak in the 60s and 70s.

Yeah R327, you've said that before- then why does she tour internationally to sold out audiences, receive the Legion of Honor in France, play Hyde Park this summer- I would say she is one of the most well known American entertainers ever- dating back to the 1960s. Her silly Focker films made her a bloody fortune internationally. I'm sure younger people are not that into her- but that's a bit natural especially today when there are such things and YouTube and Instagram stars and all manner of cable and streaming entertainment. Of the three younger than 30 receptionists in my department, none had heard of Clark Gable and Gone With the Wind, or knew who Betty Davis was. The all knew who Barbra was and one knew she had released a CD recently- never heard of Funny Girl- stage or screen. lol

R327 Yes that’s a fair point. My ex used to live in London and while Barbra certainly could and has sold out shows there she’s not the megastar she is in the US even among gay men. She’s A List sure but she’s held in a category with a few others not as a stand alone, let’s whisper her name in reverence star. Just like Garland is also not the star in the U.K. that she is here.

As a white man I’m currently uncomfortable telling people of color who they should listen to or which artists they should become familiar with. I’ve been put in my place a few times when I’ve mentioned what a shame it is that more people my age don’t know X because X was white and then schooled on artists I should know but don’t because they are Latino/black/Asian etc.. I’m also afraid of being accused of cultural appropriation if I get too excited about an ethnic artist so it’s difficult to toe the line. I guess it depends where you live and who you associate with but trying to tell my circle of ethnic, urban, super progressive friends that what’s missing from their life is an appreciation of Pavarotti, Garland, Streisand and Neil Diamond would go down like a lead balloon. I’m also uncomfortable declaring that an appreciation of white authors, painters, singers etc is required to be a sophisticated, cultured member of society. When I was younger and lived in the sticks surrounded by white people I thought what a tragedy that these dunces couldn’t pick Sondheim out of a lineup but now older, wiser and exposed to a greater variety of people I would feel like a total prick if I scoffed at people who didn’t give two shits about white European composers and painters. Conversations with my neighbors, new friends, waiters have exposed me to poets, songwriters, painters from Ireland to Guatemala to Senegal. The fact that these artists aren’t better known and appreciated is simply that they are a victim of circumstance of birth for the most part and my response to being exposed to these artists has never been “well sure but can you name a Picasso?”

[quote]Anyway, I don't really care. Streisand is a show business genius.

Yes you do and no, she's not.

R329 and I should add that I’m actually a huge Streisand fan. But I’m not that surprised that people my age generally don’t know her beyond name recognition. I don’t think that any star is going to be remembered forever outside of Marilyn, Elvis and maybe Jimmy Dean and The Beatles. From what Brits have told me I can appreciate how she’s viewed there, which is as a member of the American showbiz elite, a solid A lister but not the megaSTAR that she is here because her story doesn’t play as well there as it does with urban Americans. The whole “Jew from Brooklyn” thing doesn’t mean much to people from Liverpool who have their own tags to riches, “survivors” to hold dear. People that have never had much success stateside but are beloved by the Brits will have a much greater emotional hold on them than someone like Barbra which is to me completely understandable and I’m not even sure why anyone wouldn’t understand that. The death of Cliff Richard and all that he represents to Brits will have a greater national impact that the death of Barry Manilow who is also a well known A lister in The U.K., sells tickets but doesn’t have the same emotional hold on the population.

I fully expect Barbra’s music to have a audience for many generations to come but expecting her star to shine as bright as it did in her heyday isn’t realistic.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Johnny Carson and that probably deserves its own thread because has anyone else fallen completely out of the public consciousness as quickly as Carson? And fallen so far? I remember listening to a Golden Girls podcast and they were discussing a joke where Carson was the punchline and the hosts were reading out his Wiki because they had no idea who he was or how relevant the joke was at the time. On their FB page there were dozens of comments from people saying that now they got the joke but previously it had gone over their heads because they had no clue with this Carson person was.

R326, I want to know why Lena Horne is not a lesbian because you sold her a scarf. Did she tell you that?

[quote] I guess it depends where you live and who you associate with but trying to tell my circle of ethnic, urban, super progressive friends that what’s missing from their life is an appreciation of Pavarotti, Garland, Streisand and Neil Diamond would go down like a lead balloon.

How odd!

I am sure back in the day everyone just loved it when you told them you considered their lives inferior to yours because they did not appreciate Neil Diamond properly.

Neil Diamond! Now there's somebody nobody knows anymore, except for some post-menopausal women.

Streisand is decidedly middlebrow entertainment, and that's being kind.

No she is not.

Not forgotten.

She looks like Golda Meir's grandmother.

They're remaking "Last Tango in Paris" with Barbra in the Brando role and tres Gallic Timothée all buttered up in the Maria Schneider part.

R336 Why were two Jews at an Amazon Christmas party?

So if ONE twentysomething celebrity likes her, that means she is not forgotten??

[quote]As a white man I’m currently uncomfortable telling people of color who they should listen to or which artists they should become familiar with. I’ve been put in my place a few times when I’ve mentioned what a shame it is that more people my age don’t know X because X was white and then schooled on artists I should know but don’t because they are Latino/black/Asian etc.. I’m also afraid of being accused of cultural appropriation if I get too excited about an ethnic artist so it’s difficult to toe the line.

My God your life sounds tedious.

R 324, I'm the same way. I was always a curious kid and, if I saw someone in a movie I liked on TV, I'd look up the rest of the work and follow their career. I don't even know if it's a generational thing. There are people my parents and grandparents age who lack that curiosity. I think there are still people of all ages who will discover a talented person and want to see more. I never remembered thinking "gross! This movie is really old and was made 30 years before I was born. I don't need to watch it." A good story or good performance is a good story or performance. Those don't age unless you're an idiot who can't get past things like black and white photography or different hairstyles and clothing. It's the same thing as people who try to judge old TV shows on current social standards and write idiotic BuzzFeed articles about them. Of course there are going to be jokes that don't land as well or feel inappropriate today. It was a different time.

The issue with Streisand is that she's lazy and rarely ever picked projects that would stretch her as an actress. Gypsy could have been that project, but she waited until she was 40 years too old for the role. Her timing has always been for shit, too.

[quote] Gypsy could have been that project

What do you mean "could have"? She may still do it.

Bitch can't sing or act. Barbra's too ugly to play Herbie. Give it a rest.

Barbra's getting too old to even play Papa. Jesus, what is this woman thinking? According to the little wink and nudge she gave at her last concerts, it seems like she still thinks Gypsy might happen. How delusional do you have to be? Even Norma Desmond wasn't this delusional. I'd have bought her as a teenage girl more than I'd buy Barbra as the mother of two young children. Unless they add a kidnapping subplot to explain why a nearly 80 year old woman is raising two young children, it's not going to work. For someone so protective of his show, Arthur Laurents must have been drugged when he signed off on Barbra playing this role.

She's always been delusional.

[quote] Unless they add a kidnapping subplot to explain why a nearly 80 year old woman is raising two young children, it's not going to work. For someone so protective of his show, Arthur Laurents must have been drugged when he signed off on Barbra playing this role.

Where have you guys been?

The real estate thing (stupendous rents, including on our favorite theatres) in New York means that no one cares if an actress is right for the part: the only consideration is whether their star can get asses in the seats. If Streisand agreed to play Orphan Annie, they would let her.

[quote] What do you mean "could have"? She may still do it.

You're going to still be saying this even after she dies, won't you?

"They could still animate her corpse in front of the camera! It could still happen!"

The myth that Streisand is in demand to star in a film makes me heart burst with joy. It proves the delusion of her 3 Datalounge fans. Streisand can't even stand up without a walker under her voluminous "costumes." She sure as fuck can't sing. The general public doesn't know her or can't stand her obnoxious personality and hideous displays. She's a grotesque human being AND a delusional bitch.

[quote]The general public doesn't know her or can't stand her obnoxious personality and hideous displays. She's a grotesque human being AND a delusional bitch.

That about sums her up.

Let Streisand be as delusional as she wants. It will take a BIG FAT FLOP in any form to put her in her place. After that, no financing for anything - no concerts, no movies, no recording contract, NOTHING. She'll retire and all will be right with the entertainment world. charlie?

She's still trying to get Gypsy made? She's old enough to play their great-grandmother.

R339

Oy, meshuggah:

just free food and champagne.

Young people barely even know who Madonna is, so Streisand must not even be on their radar at all.

She seems so dated. Moreso than any still living celebrity that I can think of.

Even Marilyn Monroe has a cool mystique about her that could make young people interested. Barbra is just an old hag from yesteryear.

R5 - "I think her talents will be rediscovered by younger generations when their tastes mature."

R6 - "When do you think that will that be, [R5]?"

When they finally get off their goddamn phones.

Students of voice are aware of younger Streisand recordings and performances. She had great natural technique and a lot of exceptional vocal gifts, especially her flawless mixing of chest and head voice, a hummingbird fast vibrato that could spin a note off into outer space and of course her ability to hold and sustain notes forever. But her style of singing is not admired. Too much Barbra, not enough respect for the music. Her taste and presentation are weird, old fashioned and embarrassing. And her repertoire is not great, because she ruined more songs than she blessed with her strange vocal affectations and grand arrangements. All designed only to show off her voice but not serve the music. Add in all the schlock songs she recorded. With a few exceptions. Barbra was a tacky singer with an amazing vocal instrument. WAS.

If she respected singing as much as she loves money and applause, she would have stopped performing at least 15 years ago.

I do think a lot of her later work is cursed with too much self-indulgence. She slows songs down so that she can show everyone how long she can hold a note, even if it's not what's best for the song. She needs a strong arranger who can tell her "no." Probably in the same way she needs a strong director who can coach a good performance out of her.

I shudder to think what she'd have done with a song like "Some People" in Gypsy. She'd have probably stretched it out to 15 minutes.

Her version of "Some People" will have the dialog changed so that it's her mom she argues with. La Babs will change everything into cheap pop psychology and treat Gypsy as yet another attempt to work through her million issues with her mother.

Her version of "Some People" will have the dialog changed so that it's her mom she argues with. La Babs will change everything into cheap pop psychology and treat Gypsy as yet another attempt to work through her million issues with her mother.

Does Ros Kind hate her half-sister?

Does Ros Kind hate her half-sister?

Babs version of Some People will involve a slit skirt, long red nails and crimped hair.

Maybe Babs will sing Some People in a duet with Liza Minnelli (circa 1990) ?

Liza covered Some People and did a great job. A younger Liza would've been interesting as Mama Rose.

Liza Minnelli is the one who should have had the opportunity to make a feature film of Gypsy at least 30 years ago. I'm not a big fan of hers, but her voice is far better suited to the score and she knows how to deliver those staccato BAM songs and the quiet sad ones too. And she could build to a BIG brassy finish too. Liza was one of the best character singers of all time. Like Bernadette Peters she is very gifted at acting while singing. And she is a much better actress than Streisand. There's far more subtext and adult emotion and real sex and tenderness and grown up anger in her repertoire. She moved beautifully too. Did. Maybe I do like her?

I mean to a SCREEN of Liza singing the song in 1990, like Barbra did with Marlon Brando and Elvis.

I dunno, R365, Liza's acting abilities leave a lot to be desired, especially in a role with a dark side.

Not true R367. Cabaret is a very dark movie. As an actress and performer, Liza had resources and abilities that Streisand wouldn't dare to attempt. Because Streisand had a beautiful voice and Gypsy has a great score, but it doesn't mean that the two go together. Streisand's voice and singing style is not well suited to the role of Mama Rose at all. Barbra should have tried to make Sunset BLVD.

Liza is more interesting because she’s a hot mess, and people want to see if she makes a spectacle of herself.

Barbra is just a complete bore. Nobody gives a shit what she does.

R368, WOW!! I haven't seen that in years. I truly had forgotten what a powerful performer Liza was. That was like watching someone having a gut breaking therapy session on stage. That could not have been easy to perform since it hit, more like slammed, so close to home. You could almost see what was going on in her mind as she sang...the way she winced when the music changed. Very powerful. Thank you for posting it.

As for Barbara, I know she spells it Barbra but I think that's a very asshole way to spell it so I will spell it the normal way, she could not give a performance like that if her life depended on it. Be it in song or just dialogue Barbara cannot act and personally I find and have always found her hard to look at. I would love to have seen what a young Liza would have done with Funny Girl. We would have gotten to see the heart of Fanny Brice instead of an ego trip for Barbara.

I totally agree R370.

I remember seeing Liza in concert and she did Some People and Rose's Turn (which is such a bizarre song to do out of the context of the show) and she nailed them. She should have done the TV movie instead of Midler. She was approached for the Tyne Daly revival, but she thought 8 shows of that a week would be too exhausting.

I don't mourn Streisand's Gypsy, but I do mourn Liza's (and her mother's). I could never see Streisand pulling off a role like Rose.

Streisand couldn't pull off a role in a 30 second commercial for dog food, in fact the dog would put her acting to shame.

Why are you bitches obsessed with Mama Gypsy must be 40 ? Barbra is getting close to 80 so I must admit she may be too old but no one says anything about Judi Demch always playing roles she is 20 years old for.

R368, yeah......and Liza is as bubbly as usual. She can't fake it. Face it, in her own way Liza is as limited as Streisand, probably more so.

Liza cannot pull off being a romantic actress like Streisand can. Liza and Omar Sharif? Liza and Robert Redford? Puleeeeze. Now, of course, they bother would stink = both too old and decrepit.

But Liza not being good as a romantic lead sadly was due to her looks, not her talent. Big difference. People can't help what they're born looking like but you never heard Liza having to be told how beautiful she is in every fucking role or playing the beauty. Can you imagine Babs doing something like Tell Me That You Love Me Junie Moon? Babs plays Babs in every single role and I don't want to see that happen to Mama Rose. I saw Angela Lansbury and Tyne Daly play Mama Rose on B'way and of course Rosalind Russell in the film and they were great. I can't stand to see Mama Rose, from the Mid West, played as an 80 year old Jewish woman with a Brooklyn accent who has the personality of Babs. Rose's Turn is basically a woman having a nervous breakdown to music. No way Babs can pull that off.

In the words of Bette Midler in New West, 1977. "Liza's a wonderful girl, she's girlish." "Streisand is womanly."

I agreed at the time. Case closed, R337. Liza could not have pulled it off - and it has nothing to do with her beagle hound looks, that's personality, sexuality and acting ability. No one on earth care who other than Liza could act the lead in ell Me That You Love Me Junie Moon. Jesus!

No, plenty of other actresses could have played Junie Moon, just not Barbra.

R314. Thanks, that was really informative. What did you think of Lorna Luft and Barry Manilow? I follow someone on Instagram who had some of the concert on their stories. I think I already said this above, I watched some of The Trolley Song sung by Lorna and it didn't sound good. But I can't judge, I didn't hear the whole song, even.

Just want to add, you really have to go way back now to find a time (if there ever was a time, I'm not informed enough to generalize) when most gays loved Streisand, or Judy, or Joan Crawford...I'm much older than you and of my friends at the time, I was the only one who liked old movies (Bette Davis, for ex. - but anything), show tunes, Judy Garland, etc. (never cared for Streisand). Though I also liked (and still do) the latest pop music, as well as rock, metal, punk, pop punk, r&b, hip hop, etc. And I'm bi, and usually thought of as straight acting. My best friend liked Mae West, otherwise he never watched old movies and his musical taste was Springsteen, Rolling Stones, Bowie, metal. Another friend who was much more effeminate didn't like Judy, Liza, or Barbra, or any divas. He liked theater so he liked shows (I saw Gypsy w/Angela Lansbury w/him and his parents when we were 12) but mostly classical and opera. Another friend listened to pop (Top 40) and that was about it.

I imagine Barbra Streisand would seem like a prehistoric fossil to people in their 20s. Hell, I'm in my 40s and even our generation thought she was an "old timey" entertainer. For many of us, she was even older than our parents.

To put it another way: Kids today look at Barbra Streisand the same way the Boomer generation looked at Vaudeville performers from the 30s. Just too remote and out of date to have any relevance to them.

R381 True, I never thought much of Ann Miller.

I'm only 32, but I still really enjoy older movies, music, musicals, plays, TV shows, etc. Maybe I was just exposed to them more than other people my age were when we were growing up. I do know some who were exposed to them, but they were immediately turned off by them and I guess their parents stopped trying to force them to watch older things and kept the channel on Nickelodeon instead. It makes me sad, though. I feel like they're missing out on so much by not watching anything made before 1992. Anything before then is instantly super dated and they can't relate to it.

For me, good art is good art and Streisand has her fair share of good performances and songs that should be preserved. Like just about everyone else in the business, she's also done a lot of crap that's best forgotten, but she was supremely talented and deserves to be remembered. Her style might not be "in" anymore, but to deny that she has any talent is ludicrous. I'm not a huge Lady Gaga fan, but I know the woman has talent and can sing her ass off. I don't think she's much of an actress, but I'm not going to pretend like she doesn't have talent elsewhere. Madonna, too. Not a great voice or actress, but she sure can put on a show and reinvent herself. That's a talent in and of itself.

Madonna hasn't reinvented herself. She has reinvented her shows and how she wants the world to see her on this particular day. She is and has always been, like Barbra, a talentless, selfish, greedy, egotistical piece of crap who could not create a character or play anyone other than herself. The only difference is that Babs really can sing but in every song she sings she only sings like herself. You never hear anything but I'm Barbra Streisand and look how I can sing. She cannot do a character in a song the way Liza or even Midler can or the way many B'way performers can. Same for Madonna only she can't sing.

[quote] The only difference is that Babs really can sing but in every song she sings she only sings like herself. You never hear anything but I'm Barbra Streisand and look how I can sing. She cannot do a character in a song the way Liza or even Midler can or the way many B'way performers can. Same for Madonna only she can't sing.

Of course she can do a character in a song. She first gained attention as Miss Marmelstein in I Can Get It For You Wholesale. She did Second Hand Rose, also. And other character songs. What the hell are you talking about? Also, why does a singer have to play characters? What kind of stupid way is that to judge a singer? Most singers sing as themselves. From June Christy to Adele.

We don't like Barbra as herself. She's an obnoxious asshole. Could she sing like someone else?

I'm old and as a kid my parents took me to see Wholesale. No, Miss Marmelstein was just more Streisand being Streisand only back then people really didn't know what she was like so they thought they were seeing something good and her odd looks made her stand out. Don't forget she was 19 and just starting when she was in Wholesale. By the way, Gould was just playing Gould in that too so they were a good match. Both given a big chance for little talent to show for it.

R387, she's always been a one-dimensional actress who plays every part the same. She had good comic timing in the 60s but then turned into an insufferable, pretentious, humorless asshole in the 70s. Every film she's made since then has been shit. She started believing her own publicity and taking herself way too seriously.

Aside from the singles she had on Top-40 radio, that people heard everywhere back then, I've never listened to a song by Babs, never looked at one of her albums, certainly never seen any move she's been in, and don't give a damn about her. I "forgot" her about 40 or 50 years ago.

Well said R388 and 389, very well said.

R307 R308 and R309 Millennials are people born between the early 80's and late 90's, all well past adulthood today. As an older millennial I remember the Nanny when it was first on (as well as from reruns in the early 2000's). It probably was where I learned who Streisand was!

The Nanny is probably where you learned what a Jew was R391.

I think Streisand's irrelevance to young people has less to do with her age and more to do with her choice of material and the way she's conducted herself in public. She's a pretentious bore in her public appearances even when she puts on the "I'm just a poor Jewish girl from Brooklyn made good" shtick.

Most, if not all, of the twentysomethings and even many of the teenagers whom I know we're aware of Aretha Franklin even before she died. Aretha never sold as much as Babs did, but her songs form part of the American cultural landscape of popular music in a way that most of Babs' music doesn't. Besides, Aretha kept herself in the news by acting like a shady diva at all times. She was as big a bitch as Streisand but Franklin was at least somewhat interesting towards the end of her career. Babs has morphed into a sleeping pill with a massive ego.

Aretha sang with everyone. Pavarotti, Tony Bennett, George Michael, Whitney, Annie Lennox, Mary J, Michael McDonald, Sinatra, Fantasia, John Legend and did that infamous Diva's LIVE with Mariah, Celine, Shania, Carole King and Esteban. Aretha wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. And she kept it current with her "great gowns" and "very nice" and "no comment" shade in her last years. She took down Dionne Warwick with a FAX! Aretha was Mount Rushmore, a monumental presence, a great artist and a grand DIVA. With all the joy and pain of the world in her voice and on her face.

Streisand is a whiny mouse of a woman and a cheesy lounge singer in comparison.

Whenever I've seen Barbra Streisand do a public appearance, like a talk show, she's so uptight and just has this attitude like "yes, it's really me. Barbra. I'm gracing you with my presence." And everyone's supposed to be in awe. She's from a different era of show business - most of us weren't even born when she was at her peak - and it just comes off as affected, hokey and really from another time.

Mariah Carey looks like a truck stop hooker in r394's pic.

I basically wish stars her age would age gracefully like old-time stars (sometimes) used to. Like Irene Dunne or Loretta Young, maybe Stanwyck or Katharine Hepburn. (If you're too young for Streisand you're way too young for them.) I mean a woman as old as Barbra looks stupid with the long, flowing hair. Christ, you're old enough to be a great grandmother. Be a nice-looking, even beautiful older woman, not an old hag trying to look 35.

[quote]Mariah Carey looks like a truck stop hooker in [R394]'s pic.

Mariah actually IS a truck stop hooker.

Yes, R397. I have no problem with Streisand staying visible, though I wish she'd stop singing. The issue is that she wants to stay visible like it's 1979 and expects people to fawn over her like he's a *happening* personality. If she would scale back and only appear every few years - and act her age - I'd be happier, and so would lots of others.

[quote]Be a nice-looking, even beautiful older woman, not an old hag trying to look 35.

Shut the fuck up.

R398 I think the proper term is Lot Lizard, and yes she is.

Mariah does love to look slutty as fuck. But she's not a lot lizard. Streisand has her tits and legs out all the time and she's 200 years old! YUK, as we say in Brooklyn. Thank god she's not playing dinner theatre - where she belongs.

R395 Is there another star, living or dead, who made talk shows change their set to show off their "good side"?

(To be fair most stars are moderately attractive and can look good from multiple angles).

Huh R403. To be fair, it's all in her mind that she has a gorgeous side or a discernibly better side. She'd never get any show to turn their whole set around now - and pretend nothing is different. Not even Beyonce can get that. What a gross cow Streisand is. When she appeared on Fallon with the badly formatted autotune mic for her gross duets album with Blake Shelton, Ted Nugent and Kid Rock - she just "playfully" suggested that she sit in Fallon's seat, behind the desk! The better to be worshipped. So that's how they managed to not redesign the damn Tonight Show. Why do more people not vomit in sight of Streisand? She's not ugly, but she's a grotesque human being. Of course Fallon kissed her ass the whole time and she did that thing that R395 mentions. Gracing everyone with her presence. And sidebar, bitch seems really OLD in person. She's slow and not aware or funny and seems very out of touch. Not because she is her seventies either charlie. Most people in their seventies are fine and fast and involved with life and get some jokes and know how to talk to other HUMANS. See her in Carpool pretend to sing with Cordon too? She's not sharp, but flat. Terrible voice and all she cares about is the mirror. She doesn't mind being seen head on...tells you something about her self awareness. The whole town was lit up outside that car. I won't be surprised if Barbara lives long and demented. She hasn't had a fully realized thought since 1990 something. No one challenges her. She never learned to read or write. She doesn't practice singing and she eats what's put in front of her. At her hideous compound. She flaunts her obsessive mental illness and compulsion, the meticulous wealth of her hideous compound. It costs hundreds of millions but looks like a tortured tourist attraction they made grade school kids attend. Like some old time recreation. Oprah back in time. Jesus lady Jew, if you're going be tacky rich, at least go back to your former art noveau riche. Get back in the bunker Barbra Braun. Put on some damn diamonds and stop pretending to be an early American. Barbara is humping the ancestors in hope for A solution to her political passions and warnings of the 1990s. Nuclear winters and uncrisp celery. This WILL happen people if you don't protect Israel and vote for Dukakis! I am only charging by the note to save the whales! OYE. AIDS - some people, not my son, have it! Give money after you buy my merch! It's gorgeous. I lit a fake joint in Central Park and Stoney End is a dumb song, Ah, those crazy kids who let me sing their songs. I've rewritten every line. Do you like my tits?

I digress. Streisand is shite. People hate both sides of her face.

I keep thinking that the OP’s pic is of Jocelyn Wildenstein.

R404 is mentally ill.

Whitney Houston will outlive the most incredible vocals of all time. No competion. Gifted beyond measure, she was.

R404 is a genius of observation.

R407 says the truth. Whitney had the voice that will be remembered forever. Her voice was beyond a thrill and the most beautiful of all time. Her heart was there for all to see and feel. She is the emotional and technical standard of excellence - the greatest singer of popular music ever.

charlie is mentally ill. His whole world is a delusion. We wish him well.

Really? Whitney Houston sang loud. That's about it.

Singers in olden times weren't recorded, so they really are lost to time. Not BS. Not to mention recording benefited a different kind of singer. Live shows without amplification required an ability to project that literally nobody has today.

Barbara Streisand in the mid 60s wasn't a singer but a switchboard operator with an ego.

By which I mean she was singing as though she was whispering on the telephone, not playing to an audience.

For all of Streisand's "loudness" when she was young, she required amplification when she sang on Broadway in her early 20s. I believe this was new at the time (anyone?). I don't think Streisand knew how to consistently project her singing voice.

That was the beginning of the end for Broadway in many ways. I went to see a show a year or two ago and one of the actresses mic malfunctioned and they had to bring the curtain down, because the poor dear was incapable of projecting enough to go on with the show.

I went to a play at an arts high school in Texas (a relative's son was in it) and they were all miked. I was kind of surprised. That they aren't learning to project their voices on stage, I mean. Seems like that was the first thing we learned to do in school plays.

I like this medley with Barbra and Judy Garland (not the Happy Days medley). Supposedly Judy admired Barbra as a singer. I've never been a huge Barbra fan. I've liked Judy since I was a kid, Both my parents liked her, they even saw her at the Palace. Yeah I'm old(er) lol. But I liked Barbra when I was young and I think she was better in the 60's before she started trying to sing rock. Or she just was purer as a singer or a personality... hell I don't know.

Really, R415. I saw Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton in Private Lives on Broadway in 1983, and people in the audience were turning to each other asking "what did she say?" for a lot of Elizabeth's performance. When she turned around with her back to the audience and spoke, forget it. Obviously she was miked, but jeez. This was before Betty Ford, so maybe Liz was loaded.

"I think she (Streisand) was better in the 60's"

Yes, R416. She also sang with a very young voice, and that helped.

R417 That's interesting (not surprising). What's funny is, it's not *that* hard to project on stage. Many theatres have the acoustics that help. I guess with mics it's now unnecessary, but it's a different kind of theatre. Off topic I guess but I saw Maggie Smith in Private Lives a few years earlier tan Liz did it, and she was great.

I'm always fascinated by actors who can't project. So few of them will start out playing in well miked venues. It seems like it'd be less easy for them to stand out if you can't hear what the fuck they're saying. If Linda from HR is playing Miss Hannigan in a community theatre production of Annie and can be heard clear as a bell, I think an aspiring professional actor should be able to be heard as well or just go ahead and throw in the towel.

wtf is that hayseed bushy wig she got on in the first pic above????

When she could sing beautifully and allow herself to be imperfect....her voice was gorgeous.