The Deuce Season Three

Trailer.

I can't wait! I really like this show.

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Meh... he's let himself go but is this really all that bad for 41? What else does he have to prove at this point in his life?

R6 Anyone who says “meh” can’t be taken seriously.

Stop being a little bitch; there's nothing wrong with using interjections on a fucking message board.

R8 Meh... I like being a little bitch.😊

r9 😘

I like this kind of sexy fat guy. Only the gays will care but he's 100% into women now so no bother.

Season 3 premiere tonight. Hello, 1985!

I really liked the first episode

It starts with Lori getting out of rehab for the 5th time!

I guess no one is watching. I liked it.

I liked it to and they aren’t ignoring AIDS. It’s sad the hooker who was a heroin addict has hiv it seems like

R16 Come on now. You know shit was never gonna end good for her.

This show had so much potential. About my favorite time in NYC. But they made it boring and the actors were horrible choices for the roles. Writing, acting, storyline 4/10. What a wasted opportunity.

[Quote]and they aren’t ignoring AIDS.

Did you think a show about sex workers in 80s New York was going to ignore AIDS?

I just watched the Season 3 premiere. I liked it very much. It was actually kind of nice to see Lori walking out of rehab. Most of us figured she'd be dead of an overdose by 1985. Yeah she immediately loses her sobriety, but at least we have hope she'll overcome.

I really miss Darlene and Larry, but kind of a relief that their stories ended hopeful.

I felt like last season wasn't great but so far I'm enjoying this one.

I liked the first episode too. But I agree with the above poster who said it's a missed opportunity. There is something inauthentic about the whole series, and I can't pin down if it's the casting of Maggie G and James F, their performances, or the writing. I usually don't mind Franco and usually like Maggie G but I cannot get lost in their characters....I see them "acting".

I found the first episode rather lackluster, but I have to say, whoever dressed Maggie Gyllenhaal is a genius. She looked like she'd just walked out of a Helmut Newton photoshoot. 80s fashion looks good on her.

[quote] Yeah she immediately loses her sobriety, but at least we have hope she'll overcome.

Lori was licking the fucking coke wrapper, lol. That does not read hopeful to me.

R18 R21 R22 AGREED.

Whores!

R23 Right! haha. It was kind of disturbing seeing her devour the coke like that.

Yeah, it was really underwhelming. How many years have passed since the last season? And everyone is exactly the same except for that whorehouse guy's rug and Madison is a big star. They made some odd choices. Nothing really happened and the few things that they chose to show were convaluted and boring.

Wow, nobody watched episode two of this season? I liked it better than the first episode.

[quote]How many years have passed since the last season?

Season 1- 1971

Season 2- 1977

Season 3- 1985

Just saw it. Another snoozer. The whole double Franco thing is really slowing it all down. At this point who gives a fuck about them? As always on this show, the women's storylines are so much more interesting, but we have to put up with all this mafia bullshit in between.

I’ve devoured coke like that

Does Paul have AIDS? Or just his boyfriend?

I love this show and everything about it.

One Franco is too many - two are cheesy, uninteresting, and distracting. I’ve warmed up to Maggie G - but Franco is just horrible. And the whole plot line around him - and the brother him - is lame and uninteresting, Could have been so much better.

[Quote]Does Paul have AIDS? Or just his boyfriend?

Paul has refused to go to a doctor and doesn't know. He just "assumes he has it". There was a whole scene about this.

And that’s realistic R35. I think the majority of guys didn’t want to know when the test came out. When there was no treatment, it was like being told you are going to get sick and die in the next 3 years. It was a tough decision - do you want to live your life without knowing about dying tomorrow or know and spend every day waiting for death.

Wow, Franco’s characters are barely adding up to one leading role and there’s so little air time that I’m having trouble distinguishing who is whom. Was this punishment and blowback from #metoo? I assume one of them will die before the end of the season, I hope it happens sooner than later and we get a fully flushed out arc for the survivor. It would be an interesting twist if the “good” brother was the one to die.

I want to see more of Bruno Kirby’s secret gay life. I wish they would have a storyline about the gay theaters and the tension between him being the one leading to closing them down with his economic development.

I’m enjoying most of the other storylines. The one with David Morse reminded me of that George C. Scott film Hardcore from 1979. He’s a father who is searching for his daughter who is acting in pornos, but he poses as a producer to find her. I think this is when I found out what porno films were and remember being titillated at the idea. There’s a scene where despite not actually hiring the actors and needing to see them naked, a guy pulls out his junk to prove how hung he is. You only see him from the back and George’s reaction, and I remember thinking “I want to see that!”

Anyone seen the movie "STREETWALKIN" with Melissa Leo? From the actual 80s about the duece. I love it.

Fake Blondie song in the opening credits third week in a row! A royalty-free, thin imitation of "Dreaming." Sounds terrible and annoying and is an insult to Blondie. Couldn't they get the rights for a song that would dramatically open the episode each week? It's 1985. Maybe a fake version of New Order's "Blue Monday" would have been a better fake song choice.

And,hmm... that early Cindy Sherman print hanging in Todd and Paul‘s apartment in this episode seems to be the wrong size. It would be very large I think at that stage in her work. (the earliest of her color photos). It’s similar to the b&w Sherman “Untitled Film Stills” prints hanging in Patrick Bateman’s apartment in AMERICAN PSYCHO, which are blown up huge and presented as originals, but that Sherman series were very small, 8" x 10”.

Well, no comment on Paradise Garage because I never went there. But that was NOT Avenue A earlier! And LES "street art" did not look like that in the 80's. That looked more LES Vice-coolness c.2003.

Why don’t I just relax and enjoy it and stop nitpicking all the background details?

[quote] Fake Blondie song in the opening credits third week in a row!

Wow! Is this verified that is not Blondie? I thought it sounded different than I remembered it, but thought maybe my memory wasn't reliable.

Loved the most recent episode. The scenes with David Morse and his daughter were tremendous! I have been critical of the Franco and Gyllenhaal characters in the past, and this episode benefited by hardly any Franco. So far this is the best season. I agree with the poster up above; I cannot tell the two Franco characters apart except for their hair. And even then I can't remember which one is directing porn, which one is collecting money for the mob, which one owns the bar, etc.

[quote]The whole double Franco thing is really slowing it all down.

It's like [italic]The Patty Duke Show[/italic] with the clap

To me it sounds like Deborah Harry just recorded recently so her voice sounds older.

The AIDS stuff is making me so sad.

Films and TV will often use re-created songs to avoid royalty fees. It's all legal and there's a whole little industry of "fake song recording studios" and companies that cater to this. They find a vocalist that fits, bang out a version, and/or enhance it electronically. Usually, they're so close that most people won't notice (or care). But discerning fans and those familiar will know.

It's sad because the original "Dreaming" is a banging, soaring, power pop masterpiece but this imitation sounds so thin and weak.

I wonder if the Elvis Costello song from the opening credits of the first two seasons was fake? It sounded real to me (but did have a female vocalist in one chorus, so there's that) and I'm not an obsessive fan of his work like I am Blondie. Dunno.

[quote]Films and TV will often use re-created songs to avoid royalty fees. It's all legal and there's a whole little industry of "fake song recording studios" and companies that cater to this. They find a vocalist that fits, bang out a version, and/or enhance it electronically. Usually, they're so close that most people won't notice (or care). But discerning fans and those familiar will know.

Showtime did this when they started reairing QAF over the summer—all of the original songs were replaced with vaguely sound-alike generic tracks.

I think they just have too many storylines going on. I have really tuned out of the the double Francos. I mean I no longer give a fuck about either of them and have no idea what their deal is anymore. The police issue is only interesting to me, because the hot cop is giving blow jobs in basement clubs. All the porn start stuff is pretty good though. The whore house is kind of interesting, but they made everyone around it so hateful, so it's hard to watch.

I am anxious to see what happens to the Gandolfini character

Funny how in an episode directed by a woman, Maggie's tits are hanging out but Corey's ass stays hidden.

I agree best season so far. There have been a couple of conversations between characters that I feel like would have happened between them in the last five years. Like Lori and her agent. The franco brother and girlfriend. I also tune out the police mafia crap and could care less about the franco twins.

They could have done a whole series just about the 80s. Maybe it’s because the people on the show remember the 80s but I think it’s the best so far.

I think that's exactly why liked the 70s of Seasons 1-2, it was less familiar to me. The 80s stories feels like ground that has been well worn.

Was “gay for pay” even known back in the 80s? I thought that was a 2000+ thing...

^^^I agree

After this episode I’m kinda thinking it’s a good thing there isn’t going to be a 4th season of The Deuce.

What does Lori’s story have to do with “the deuce” anymore? Where’s Gbenga?

R37, it feels totally lifted from Paul Schrader’s Hardcore with George C. Scott, though Schrader’s film was much darker, even reenacting a snuff film. For me, the David Morse storyline is kind of boring - it’s so obvious she was eventually going to open the door. It’s not very imaginative writing but whatever...

With the Times Square property stuff they haven’t really come up with any compelling way to tell a known history - the show doesn’t delve into the characters much or the impact it will have on them. It’s not like the denizens of Times Square didn’t see it coming (I wish they’d rip off the story line from the film Times Square and have Nicky and Pammy make an appearance!).

I do like the storyline with Paul and his actor boyfriend, both of whom are really good. But otherwise it’s a mixed bag so far. I mean, what? Has Abby just spent the last 10 years of her life being smug and self-righteous living with a married man? Did Vince and Zoey Kazan ever divorce? I really find it hard to believe Abby would’ve just been a bar manager all this time. Especially given the era.

This is not my favourite season of The Deuce. I wish it were.

R37 Here, I called it one twin dead. Now hopefully the revenge arc doesn’t take up all of the remainder of the show.

One Franco down ....

Aren't they very loosely based on the Mitchell brothers? One murdered the other. From the very beginning I assumed one of the brothers would be killed just before the end of the series.....

They’re based on a set of twin brothers from NYC, not the Mitchells. One of the brothers owned the bar the Hi Hat is based on.

Here’s an article about them.

Glad one of the twins is gone, although I think Vince (the remaining one) has the more boring storyline.

I will say that the digital technology for filming one actor as twins sure has improved since the days of the Patty Duke Show! Too bad they can't go back and redo that botched job they did on The Sopranos pasting together digital bits of Nancy Marchand after she unexpectedly died.

Two much Franco!

Wish they would have killed both twins. good riddance.

I loved that they went with the stereotype of the ugly bitches no one wants to fuck crying about porn

Kinda missed the entire point of that scene r64 and it’s pretty clear Simon & Co were partially on the anti-porn side since even Saint Candy couldn’t come up with a decent rebuttal to Dworkin.

But do go on.

R52 Gay for pay has been around since the beginning of commercial hardcore porn. George Payne, Jim Cassidy (aka Rick Cassidy), and Cassidy's frequent co-star Dakota (aka Ken Sprague). All were among the first "name" gay porn stars and all identified as being straight in their private lives. The 80s had Jeff Stryker and Matt Ramsey (aka Peter North), among others.

SPOILER ALERT :

too many characters and the double franco stuff just swallows all the air out of the series. If they had just done away with the dumber of the two francos early in season ONE instead of the 4th episode of season FOUR, they show would have lasted longer than 3 seasons.

In other words, Franco suffocated the show.

We are on season 3 and not 4, and this show was meant to last 3 seasons since day one r67.

There was always a very clear outline of the story they were going to tell.

[quote] There was always a very clear outline of the story they were going to tell.

I didn't realize it was always meant to be a 3 season thing. I am enjoying season 3 more than the previous two seasons although for me, the story lines for the brothers never took off. I understand they are sourced in a real life pair of twins but it just never clicked for me. The other characters make a stronger and fuller impression with less screen time and less support. I think Simon should have rethought the locus of the show.

The stunt of having Franco play two characters was a near-fatal mistake from day one. He is a capable actor but he isn't good enough to carry this off, and it became a distraction marveling at the special effects whenever both characters appeared in the same shot .

[quote]I think Simon should have rethought the locus of the show.

Aye, there’s the rub. Without Franco’s star power it’s doubtful the show ever would’ve been greenlit. Plus he and Gyllenhaal are both executive producers so their stories are naturally going to get more airtime even though they’re both treading water, storywise.

Yea this show really doesn't have anything to do with the duece anymore. I'm not sure these people knew what kind of show they were doing. Now it's Lori doing whatever and Candy going to see off broadway every night. WTF. Don't even ask me what the cops and the twins have been doing.

Because the sex industry has largely moved off of the Deuce, the rise of the porn industry was literally what this show was described as. This season we see the last dregs of the old school Deuce as it forced to undergo redevelopment by Mayor Koch.

That's the conceit of the show.

I seem to recall from an old Deuce thread that the Todd character (Paul’s boyfriend who’s dying of AIDS) was also based on a real person. A porn actor who was in “The Boys in the Sand” and later transitioned into soap operas. Anyone have information on him? I think that actor, in particular, has really shined this season.

Frankie’s eventual death has been telegraphed during the two previous episodes. How many more people was he going to fuck over and still get away with it? It was fairly obvious that was going to happen.

Zoe Kazan’s character has been fairly useless since day one. I like Abby this season for the first time. And she got rid of that hideous 1977 hairdo she had last season that looked like a bird’s nest.

I’m still rooting for Lori but the poor girl can’t catch a break.

I love Lori’s agent, Kiki.

Casey Donovan r74, the star of Boys in the Sand wanted to be a mainstream actor and was successful in booking some theater work. He stared opposite Ingrid Berman in a Broadway show.

He landed a couple B-movies but did not appear in any soaps.

Some footage of Casey Donovan.

He died from AIDS in 1987.

It's weird they use Dreamin' (a cover of the Blondie song) as the opening music. That song was totally 1979 and by 1985 Blondie had completely disappeared. Also, the pop culture gap between 1979 and 1985 was huge. I find it rather jarring, but maybe they were more interested in the lyrics than the particular zeitgeist of the song.

R73 Yeah, well I was born in the 80s and I didn't get any of that. So, bad job on their part. All I hear is mumbo jumbo.

R80, what year? You don’t appear to remember any of it.

I like Candy but agree I could do without the Franco characters.

I can totally see that r73 in fact parts of this series seem lifted from the book Tales if Time Square

R81 I was a baby. Why would I remember any of it? I was born in 81. I'm saying, since I don't know the history about Koch and stuff, this show should be conveying that and it's not. I haven't gotten any of that from this show. We probably saw times square like 5 times in the first two seasons.

I am loving the new season because I loved the 80's. I am rooting for Lori though I don't know why because she's kind of a bitch.

How can a HBO show about porn be so scared of male nudity ?

It’s a shame r86. Luke Kirby had no problems stripping all the way down on Tell Me You Love Me.

I really thought that this season was going to start with Luke Kirby’s character coming down with AIDS and possibly having infected his wife.

We actually have not seen his wife and children yet this season and he spent New Year’s by himself in a gay bar so not sure what’s going on there.

r88 I think his character will get it because he has a lot of hookups with strangers

R74 & R77 - I thought the guy was based on a couple of characters - one being Donovan (since he was in Boys in the Sand) and the other being Dennis Parker/Wade Nichols. (As Parker he was in the soap The Edge of Night, and prior to that he appeared in a couple of gay and mostly straight porn films).

r64, r65. There isn't any rebuttal candy could have said that would have made any difference to those women. They didn't even want to hear what she had to say, they just wanted to tear her apart and get her to think the way they do.

When was the image of an upside down woman’s legs going into a meat grinder, that I think was from a Larry Flint publication, cooped by the woman’s anti porn crusade? Those posters were ubiquitous in the late 80s and I keep expecting to see the Dworkin brigade flashing them.

I wish this show was only about the women and gay men. The straight men are so m-effing boring. I agree with every drag on James Franco’s stupid dual role on this show. What a disappointment.

Ugh, is Lori going to be raped and murdered by a stalker?

Lori is going to be another Shauna Grant.

The portrayal of Dworkin was more subtle than this show usually is.

[quote]They didn't even want to hear what (Candy) had to say, they just wanted to tear her apart and get her to think the way they do.

It appears to have worked.

That cop shit has got to go. 💤💤💤💤 Still the best season so far. Armand Assante is amazing. That black girl who showed up in the big ass glasses is a horrible actress. I'm glad she hasn't been on.

I think the show runners miscalculated regarding Franco's appeal. I think we were supposed to be moved to tears when Frankie was killed. We weren't.

The scenes of Lori in the strip club reminded me of going to one of those gay theatres in Times Square in the 90's. They had my favorite porn star Aaron Austin appearing so I had to go. I had been to the Gaeity but this place was just way more sleazy. It hardly had a stage. He came out into this room and danced. Felt really bad for him. Didn't stop me from tipping him money and feeling every inch of him when he made his rounds, but it was still sad.

So Candy's boyfriend is actually a fake?

Most of the women on this are going to end up badly except for maybe Eileen/Candy. Even Abby who at one time had so much going on has lost her cachet now that she still works at Vincent's bar.

R95 You're probably right.

This show had such a good premise and a strong start but it seems like its creative spark is almost over. And Franco has been awful from day one.

I’m still enjoying it r104. The show is winding down, there’s only so much time left to wrap things up so a character-driven show, rather than a plotty one, the momentum is going to slow as the inevitable happens.

Still can’t figure out the point of Gene being closeted and then coming out again to his wife. That storyline has never really fit in with the rest of the show.

I’ll be so curious to see if this show sticks the landing and brings it all together at the end of this series. As of now, the stories don’t hang together and there isn’t a connective thread. It’s like I’m watching 3 or 4 different shows. The cop and gangster shit is so tedious. I’ve started to forward thru scenes of which I have zero interest. It doesn’t seem to matter.

R106 Agreed.

Sadly HBO is turning this into another Vinyl. Taking a really sexy fun subject and grinding all the fun out of it

Has there ever been a more boring character than Officer Chris Alston? Big fat snooze.

No, R108. Vinyl was horrifically bad. The Deuce is a much better show (and they at least try to get period detail right). The series premiere of Vinyl is still one of the worst I’ve ever seen.

What do you mean, R101? How is he “fake” and what does that mean?

r110 I don't think here was ever a company picnic, I just think he seems too good to be true. She freezeframed her movie and it looked like her boyfriend was in it to me but nobody has mentioned that.

Or he lied and said the picnic was cancelled because he didn't want to take her.

R111 I thought she was focusing how distressed the woman in that freeze-frame looked.

Thanks r113, that makes sense

I love when Lori left her loser boyfriend how he yelled the same thing at her that C.C said "I made you" Hopefully her story ends on a positive note I've always liked her character.

Another really good episode though the Abby/Vincent drama continues to be a snooze.

I still don’t think things will end well for Lori, even if I hope otherwise.

The scene between Gene and Paul was interesting. I wonder if Gene’s wife kicked him out. He wasn’t wearing his wedding ring, though he’s worn it other times when he hooks up with men.

Poor Big Mike.

my fave series of late. James looks so damn goooood. hope less of fllatt titty old Maggie....

I knew Melissa would be back. I don't think it's going to end well for Lori. With Rudy dead Vince may be next.

Why did Tommy kill Rudy?

Gene totally wanted to fuck Paul.

Also, I don’t think Paul is infected.

I felt so bad for Big Mike and also Melissa’s gay neighbor.

The actress who plays Abby is absolutely stunning.

Tommy killed Rudy probably because someone in the Gambino crew gave the go-ahead, in answer to Vince killing Pasquale’s son. Someone had to pay for killing a made man’s kid, and that was Rudy.

Tommy also knew Rudy’s old school ways of doing business were quickly falling by the wayside; Gotti would take out the Gambino boss Paul Castellano in December of 1985, which brought in a new generation of mobsters, and a much more violent era. Tommy was just climbing the ladder.

No good ending for Lori. Someone upthread called it. Still best season. Kill the other twin. Although, I think Franco is still so handsome. His acting is laughable. Some of the storylines are still shaky to me. They used that moment to explain Candy's past? Weird. Also, Lori flipping out after 5 years in the business? Nah. Don't see that. I think they skipped too far ahead. Even the extras aren't dressed for someone in 84/85. I'm pretty over it. Glad to see it go. I hate that I became so invested in this crap. I love this period in history though. I find it so fascinating. I wouldn't be suprised if only Abby was left standing. This is the most I've liked that actress all series. Her portrayal this season is getting to me. It's sad. She wanted to be such a rebel as a kid and now realizes she could have been so much more. Gotta watch who you partner with. Kill the mafia and police storylines. Nobody cares.

[quote]Also, Lori flipping out after 5 years in the business? Nah. Don't see that.

Lori has been hooking and doing porn since she got off that bus at the Port Authority in 1971. It's weird that all of a sudden, she's done. Also, with her lifestyle, she would look much older and worn than she does. Nobody ages on this show, even though it's 14 years since the beginning.

R122 I completely agree.

[quote]Lori has been hooking and doing porn since she got off that bus at the Port Authority in 1971. It's weird that all of a sudden, she's done.

Yes, nobody has ever gotten sick of a job after a decade or so of doing it.

R124 True. But I think that's something that would have happened sooner.

[Quote]Gene totally wanted to fuck Paul.

It seemed like they had before, it was interesting to see they know each other and have a history. Those two plotlines intersect.

I think Lori freaked out because it was her first gang bang and it means she's over. That's the kind of thing you start doing when you're no longer a star and can't demand the same fess and treatment you used to have (Unless you're Dawson)

Well..she has to be aging out anyway. She would be in her early 30s by now?

Yeah it's been 15 years since we met her, if we pretend she was very young and 17-18 in Season 1 she would still be 32-33.

[quote]It seemed like they had before, it was interesting to see they know each other and have a history. Those two plotlines intersect.

They knew each other way back in season two. In the second episode Gene is drinking at Paul’s bar and Paul asks him how he’s doing. It’s the first inkling we get something is up with Gene; I t’s before his family is introduced and before we see him out cruising.

[quote]Nobody ages on this show, even though it's 14 years since the beginning.

Yeah, it's hard to make sense of with all the time that is supposed to have passed. Especially when we are never given any real indications of how old they are supposed to be. (Frankie is "ageless"...because we don't want to commit to an age).

The way I have to think of it is everyone in Season 1 was supposed to be much younger than the actors actually were.

[quote]I think Lori freaked out because it was her first gang bang and it means she's over.

She's also freaking because, through her exploration of a musical "career," she realizes she will never be seen as anything but a porno actress.

Another reason Lori is freaking out? How about the amount of coke she's snorted over the years. I'd say that could be the number 1 reason.

Franco so damn hot, he just gets better with age....

If im in the cell next to him ima gonna sukk the fuk outta his ass hole.

Franco needed at least one good nude scene. He seems like the type to go full frontal but I guess that will never happen

BTW, Franco directed the last two episodes. He did a pretty good job; however he may be washed up right now as an actor due to the lawsuit against him. I was thinking he could get work as a director on TV but then it's possible the actresses might raise objections to him directing them given the lawsuit/allegations.

Lori is going to either commit suicide or be murdered. She will follow the tragic trajectory of Savannah, Shauna Grant and the like. I'm thinking she'll shoot herself with that gun she bought two episodes again. A very sad and familiar story.

Candy/Eileen's story seems the most implausible. She has a rich Wall Street bf and is looking to direct/write an intelligent adult film. Of course, with Gyllenhaal serving as an exec producer, there's no way she'll come out of the finale being anything other than a success with a rich husband.

The actress who plays Abby is very pretty but very limited acting wise. Her facial palette seems confined to one expression: smug smirking.

poor James is shitting bricks over the law suits from them me2 broads who went to his school.

hope all goes well for him....

Maggie G does not ! have bed bugs ! I realize she makes one queasy and seems unclean/mental....but she could merely have the heart bake of psoraissis….

That was tough to watch.

That was tough to watch.

Wow, not out of left field, but not expected. Have they taken out a character each episode?

Oh, I get it now, Lori will be found with Eileens’s credit card and that’s how she be identified instead of just being just an unnamed dead hooker.

RIP Lori. What a tragic and predictable end for the character. I knew she was going to go out like Shauna Grant or Savannah.

Not totally surprised by Lori’s end but still shocking. Thought for a minute her return to NYC might have saved her.

Shocking but not surprising. Two fictional tv characters I really grew to love and was pulling for, both snuffed themselves out. Can anyone guess the other? I'll give you a clue: OITNB. And the actresses could have easily switched roles.

they aint gonna kill of my mr franco or his twin is they????

Great article

Some bad casting and lazy bad writing on this show. Lori said it had been about a month since she left her agent and boyfriend. Yet, when they showed the ex boyfriend, he still had scratch marks on his face. haha. Me and my boyfriend were laughing tonight because I told him about Abby leaving the twin and he had no idea they were together. He only keeps up with the Lori storyline, Candy, and the gay guy they never show. It's like someone upthread said, it's like 6 different TV shows. Sad about Lori's character. We knew it was coming. Sadder that it happens in real life. It seemed like Candy felt something in the end. She didn't wanna shoot and the way she said, "that's a wrap".

They even had Lori be from Minnesota just like Shauna Grant.

we pray James gives us some more chest n ass, why else we there?

Also, I literally almost died laughing last night when they said Candy was STILL hot as lava. LMAO! I'm not kidding. I was laughing so hard I was lightheaded.

yea the writing is very times sq 42nd street......almost.

I think that might’ve been the joke r152. In the preview for next week we see Candy all dolled up in a blue lace getup on an outdoor pool set. She looks ridiculous and dated, not hot.

R154 It looked like the 80s to me. Dated. Didn't seem like a joke to me. I guess we'll see.

Okay, let's predict the ending: Vincent goes back to his ex-wife, Abby becomes a famous photographer (RME), Candy marries her rich bf and they both start a production company churning out art films catering to women (the Candida Royalle arc), Gene gets AIDS and becomes seriously ill, Paul becomes very active in GMHC, Big Mike dies, Tommy gets clipped, Bobby and his son get arrested for insider trading. Oh, and after working on "Crocodile Dundee," Melissa/Margaret becomes a professional, in -demand costumer for film and TV. The latter arc is not believable but it's obvious she's one ex-prostitute/porn actress who will find success in a field completely outside of the sex industry.

Gene certainly didn’t look good in the scene with his wife.

I serve an honest drink!

Yep I noticed the Minnesota thing as well r150, definitely a nod to Shauna Grant.

R159 & R150 The Rolling Stone Interview article between the show runner and the actress mentioned that they had researched Shauna’s life and included elements in the series. But they also mentioned that the actress was given the opportunity for the suicide to be pills or another way, but she chose the gun.

R160 What's your point?

R161 That they are correct, there are nods to Shauna’s life and they are deliberate, but they didn’t necessarily feel the need to limit themselves to what really happened and the actress was given input into the role. She even had the option between two different roles in the show and chose the harder, more complex one. It’s was a great article, read it if you didn’t.

So I thought that making Lori from Minnesota was a nod to the TV movie Off the Minnesota Strip starring DL favorite Mare Winningham in her fine TV movie performance as a teen that returns to her home state after a life in NYC as a whore. But apparently the movie title comes from an area of 42nd St. that was called that because of the continued influx of runaway teens to prostitutes coming from the Midwest. So making Lori from there was hammering it home in a literal sense.

So Minnesota passed harsh anti prostitution laws that basically funneled teens to NY, and their cities were already a haven for runaway midwestern kids to begin with so it created the perfect storm.

Sad about Lori but as I posted above awhile ago I saw it coming.

How did Vincent's girlfriend pack up and move all that stuff in a few hours?

I know we are supposed to root for Candy/Eileen but I think we would root for her more if she was played by another actress

Wonder if assholes Bobby and his son will go to jail for insider trading?

I think something The Deuce did really well that you don't see very often, (if anyone can think of another show or movie, name it), was it's portrayal of prostitutes. The fact that not everybody who does it is forced into it or desperate in some way, but that some have this innate need. It's almost like they have a calling for it. Nobody is forcing them into the life. They played out one aspect with Candy, one with Melissa, and a completely different view with Lori. Each was forced or heavily manipulated in certain situations, but all made the choice to have that life. Candy figured out another plan and evolved into it, Melissa got lucky. Lori knew her expiration date was getting near, and she didn't know any other way to live. It's like she killed herself more out of laziness or boredom.

R165, student movers.

No showing of Maggie's flat boobies this season? why does she talk and move so lethargically on that show...she...tired?

I really wish someone would do a show about the gay porn industry. That never really gets explored.

R168, she is a literal lizard person.

R162 The article doesn't matter. I already know. We already knew they were doing Shauna Grant. They researched Shauna Grant but left it up to the actress. Riiight. 👌 They did all that research just to have as an option. Yeah ok. I still don't know what the point is of your reply. The storyline was not really complex either. It's a trajectory that is all too common. R168 She showed those nasty loose things in bed with her boyfriend.

I like the opening credits for each season. If you look closely you can see the marquees at the Criterion - Making Love!

Just watched the episode and was able to avoid spoilers. Wow! I did NOT see that coming. It makes sense though in a sad way.

I was rooting for her!

I AM NOT A PROSTATUTE!!!!!

Devastating!

IM enjoying not seeing Maggie G's flat floppy tittys in this season.....they were sad and made me reach for my vomit bag

She did show her funbags in that sex scene with her boyfriend. I don't understand what his thing is, I would be leery of somebody who walked the streets and did porn.

It's a bullshit TV show. I live in CT. From Darien. This whole state is super image conscious. A man from Greenwich wouldn't be caught dead with a porn maker and former prostitute. And if so, it wouldn't be with an old ugly hag like Candy. And even then he would probably just fuck her once or twice in top secret.

I'm pretty sure Maggie's story is colored by her being an executive producer.

Maggie's character is very obviously inspired by Candida Royale who was a porn actress who became a well know filmmaker who tried to bring art and female perspective to erotica

Did Candida marry a banker or financier?

R179 NO. R180 And did she end up with a guy from Greenwich? NO. R181 NO.

Well, in this show in which she's the executive producer, she'll probably end up with the guy from Greenwich and retire comfortably.

R179 I meant to say RIGHT. R183 Exactly.

Candida did marry Per Sjostedt. I don't know much about the guy, but he was wealthy enough to produce a bunch of movies for her.

Is Lori going to get a funeral? Will Candy get her $40 back?

Lori left the cash from her trick on the dresser with Candy’s Visa.

The novelist Margaret Atwood credited President Donald Trump for inspiring “The Testaments,” her recently released sequel to “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Two years before, a rendition of Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar,” performed in Manhattan, stoked controversy when it portrayed the Greek emperor as Trump.

A forthcoming new HBO (T) show from television writer and producer David Simon also counts Donald Trump as its inspiration — and not in a favorable light.

Simon, best known for “The Wire” and “Treme,” says in a newly released interview that the show invokes “the idea of a demagogic populist untethered from the old party system who has a simple, fundamental message that appeals in the most basic way.”

An adaptation of “The Plot Against America,” a work of alternative history by the late Philip Roth, the show is set to depict the emergence of a proto-fascist America after the election of aviator and isolationist Charles Lindbergh.

“With Lindbergh in that book, it's peace and prosperity,” says Simon. “I'll keep you out of World War II. I'll keep you out of Europe, out of the next European war. And a sense of the other in American life. In that book, it's American Jewry, American Jews, that are the worrisome other that he uses as kindling for a dry run at fascism.”

Simon compared Trump’s political approach to that of Lindbergh’s character in the book.

“There's a very simple message that Trump used effectively to outrun the party system,” he says. “Now the other is people of color, immigrants, people who are not white, people who are not straight, people who are a little bit off of what previous generations of Americans might have called ‘normal, white America,’ you know, and all that that phrase entails.”

“So there's a very real reason to do ‘The Plot Against America’ now,” Simon adds.

The premise of the show may remind viewers of “The Man in the High Castle,” a program on Amazon Prime (AMZN) that adapted the 1962 novel of that name by Philip K. Dick. The novel and show take place decades after Japan and Germany have defeated the United States in World War II, the latter country becoming a fascist vassal split between the victors. Hulu’s adaptation of Atwood’s “A Handmaid’s Tale” similarly depicts U.S. territory under an authoritarian regime.

Simon is best known for creating the HBO show “The Wire,” which ran for five seasons in the mid-2000s. His other shows include “Treme,” “Show Me a Hero,” and most recently “The Deuce,” starring James Franco and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Simon won an Emmy in 2000 and has been nominated for four since. He previously worked as a journalist for the Baltimore Sun and is the author of “Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets,” which chronicles his year with detectives from the homicide unit of Baltimore’s police department.

The novelist Margaret Atwood credited President Donald Trump for inspiring “The Testaments,” her recently released sequel to “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Two years before, a rendition of Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar,” performed in Manhattan, stoked controversy when it portrayed the Greek emperor as Trump.

A forthcoming new HBO (T) show from television writer and producer David Simon also counts Donald Trump as its inspiration — and not in a favorable light.

Simon, best known for “The Wire” and “Treme,” says in a newly released interview that the show invokes “the idea of a demagogic populist untethered from the old party system who has a simple, fundamental message that appeals in the most basic way.”

An adaptation of “The Plot Against America,” a work of alternative history by the late Philip Roth, the show is set to depict the emergence of a proto-fascist America after the election of aviator and isolationist Charles Lindbergh.

“With Lindbergh in that book, it's peace and prosperity,” says Simon. “I'll keep you out of World War II. I'll keep you out of Europe, out of the next European war. And a sense of the other in American life. In that book, it's American Jewry, American Jews, that are the worrisome other that he uses as kindling for a dry run at fascism.”

Simon compared Trump’s political approach to that of Lindbergh’s character in the book.

“There's a very simple message that Trump used effectively to outrun the party system,” he says. “Now the other is people of color, immigrants, people who are not white, people who are not straight, people who are a little bit off of what previous generations of Americans might have called ‘normal, white America,’ you know, and all that that phrase entails.”

“So there's a very real reason to do ‘The Plot Against America’ now,” Simon adds.

The premise of the show may remind viewers of “The Man in the High Castle,” a program on Amazon Prime (AMZN) that adapted the 1962 novel of that name by Philip K. Dick. The novel and show take place decades after Japan and Germany have defeated the United States in World War II, the latter country becoming a fascist vassal split between the victors. Hulu’s adaptation of Atwood’s “A Handmaid’s Tale” similarly depicts U.S. territory under an authoritarian regime.

Simon is best known for creating the HBO show “The Wire,” which ran for five seasons in the mid-2000s. His other shows include “Treme,” “Show Me a Hero,” and most recently “The Deuce,” starring James Franco and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Simon won an Emmy in 2000 and has been nominated for four since. He previously worked as a journalist for the Baltimore Sun and is the author of “Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets,” which chronicles his year with detectives from the homicide unit of Baltimore’s police department.

I really liked that ending. Ghosts of the past.

WTF that was a cheesy end, mIght as well have been the last scenes of Titanic. He dies on the subway platform right?

Man, the last montage of Vince looking at how Manhattan has been cleaned up of any grittiness and is now a shiny playground for the rich.

It's was a DL thread come to life!

At first I was like wtf and thought it was cheesy but then it grew on me. Like if I'm drunk in Manhattan walking around, sometimes I do get very nostalgic from my era living there and think about all the people and places that have passed. I liked the glimpse of old Abby. The rest of the episode was a snoozefest.

Btw the real Frankie's son is gay, and he has given interview about working in one of his father and uncle's clubs.

The ending was sentimental, yes. And I liked it a lot.

That was Marianne Faithfull singing, yes?

For some reason, I thought Paul would evade the virus in the end but I guess not.

That was Deborah Harry singing “Sidewalks of New York” according to the AV Club.

Sad, but realistic r196. Someone like him is the epitome of the generation of gay men that got wiped out by the AIDS epidemic. So many towering figures in the community lost to history.

Also people upthread were talking about them making Candy's story unrealistic, but I thought the real unrealistic thing was Abbey's story.

I'm pretty positive the real Abbey (Maggie Smith) never went to college/law school or anything like that after the Hi Hat (Tin Pan Alley) was closed.

NO one even mentioned Lori. Sad.

Thought the episode was boring like the rest of the season but really liked the ending. They should make another season about the new whores of 42nd street. The annoying grifters in their elmo costumes.

The aging makeup on Franco was unintentionally hilarious, but the sentiment of the final scene did get to me nevertheless. I think I'll watch it again this morning.

It was a weird finale. The ending was both touching and seemed out of touch with the rest of the episode. And no one mentioned anything about Lori’s suicide. It’d have been more effective if they’d ended the series with Lori’s suicide.

Maybe no one mentioned Lori's suicide because they never found out about it. Even though she had been a high profile actress, the way she died was just what happened to hookers.

Didn’t Lori leave Candy’s credit card on the dresser? Thought maybe the cops would try to get in touch with her so she could help ID the body.

New York had like 1500 murders a year during this time period. It's believable that the cops put zero effort into some hooker who committed suicide.

But that said, I took Candy's lines to her actors to show that she was aware that Lori committed suicide.

[QUOTE] NO one even mentioned Lori. Sad.

Candy alluded to Lori when she was giving that innocent redhead actress a pep talk. I can’t remember what it was exactly but I knew instantly from her kind of mournful tone that she was referring to Lori (whose real name, as we learned in her final episode, was Sarah).

From the New York Daily News that Vince finds at the bar: "Eileen Merrell, a pioneering pornographer who starred in and directed adult films as Candy Renee, died Monday after a short battle with cancer. She was 73."

Loved the nod to The Wire with Black Frankie saying he’s going to Baltimore to help his cousin with the terrace apts.

I’m really happy that Black Frankie escaped the show alive and relatively unharmed. I always really liked his character.

I’m kind of surprised that those massage parlors (which, let’s be honest, were basically whorehouses) were operating in 1985.

In season 2 the show spent a lot of time with Larry as he went from being a pimp to an adult movie star and wanting to be a legitimate actor then we got nothing about him in season 3. At least we see Darlene trying make a life for herself albeit briefly. I wonder what happened.

The actor who plays Larry is now busy on Broadway (To Kill a Mockingbird) so I assume he was unable to make a guest appearance this season.

I always felt like Darlene’s story ended in season two. It was nice to have a brief check-in with her this season, but, let’s be honest, her character was played out.

I imagine Larry got a supporting spot on some sitcom of the period.

A friend of mine reminded me that Big Mike was fucking that tranny last season which must be where the AIDS infection came from. I had completely forgotten that.

They wanted Akinnagbe (Larry Brown) for the finale but as r211 notes he had a show the day they were going to shoot.

I never bought the Abby/Vincent relationship--never saw the love between them or even the chemistry.

They have Vince directly say to her he is surprised they stayed together as long as they did r214.

It helps they were open to do their own thing, and it helps that Abbey liked being in charge of the Hi Hat. Their relationship was convenient.

[quote]I’m kind of surprised that those massage parlors (which, let’s be honest, were basically whorehouses) were operating in 1985.

There was a big one operating about 2 blocks west of the theater where Dave Letterman did his show in about 2005. It probably had 20 girls working there at any given time.

I don’t understand when the last episode takes place. I thought Lori was in the movie Candy was directing. Wouldn’t she have wondered why Lori didn’t show up?

No she didn't wonder. Nobody cared. Only you guys.

No she didn't wonder. Nobody cared. Only you guys.

This thread makes me want to watch series.

That was risible.

Same I want to start again from the beginning.

. I think it was foreshadowing a few episodes back when Eileen and the fat producer were talking about what happens to women after porn and he said they disappear. Lori has disappeared.

Loved the ending moments, showing the New Times Square with Franco's ghosts. Franco was great as the old man, but that was the only time his character made any sense. Wish they had put more effort into the emotional journey of the porn people and the gays. They kept switching back and forth between the stories so quickly I got whiplash a few times.

I think you have to be on longer than three seasons to earn an ending like that.

Where was GBENGA?!

Maybe try looking at some other posts first r226.

The Larry actor really couldn't film a quick cameo? He wouldn't have that job on Broadway if it wasn't for this show.

The actor who plays Harvey got fat again. That actor used to be nice looking, he aged badly.

[quote]In season 2 the show spent a lot of time with Larry as he went from being a pimp to an adult movie star and wanting to be a legitimate actor then we got nothing about him in season 3. At least we see Darlene trying make a life for herself albeit briefly. I wonder what happened.

The whole point was people just came and went. They left the life and never looked back. Great finale. Although instead of the final shot of of a supposedly successful Abby walking by, I would have had Vince pass by The New Amsterdam ( which he did, but it was closed) playing Disney's "Aladdin" as the show is breaking and have Abby walking out with grandchildren showing how much she and The Deuce had changed.

I find it hard to believe that the actor playing Larry couldn't take a night off from the play. At the very least, the show is over by 11p. All he had to do is run a block to Times Square.

R227, thanks for the life-changing advice, cunty.

That's not a realistic view of how filming anything works r231, you can't run over and film something quickly.

You have to block off the entire time because it is impossible to know when production will actually be ready for you. Hurry up and wait, mantra of an actors life.

I guess he could have let his understudy take over for a couple days, but he clearly didn't want to.

R231 EXACTLY. R233 Yea but according to that article they didn't even want him for the times square shot. They wanted to film a little soap opera shot to play on a t.v. real quick. They could easily set everything up at Silvercup Studios and he runs in and shoots. Doesn't need to be high tech or quality especially for 1985. It's for a two second clip. It would take like two to three hours for him. But like you said, he clearly didn't want to do it because he could have. It also sounds to me like production is run by idiots. I've worked on films and TV shows before where I shot scenes with actors on set at Silvercup and it was done in three hours in the mornings or whatever. Four hours tops.

[quote]I find it hard to believe that the actor playing Larry couldn't take a night off from the play. At the very least, the show is over by 11p. All he had to do is run a block to Times Square.

How has the world kept turning?

Candy wondering about Lori is at the very end of the penultimate episode and then offscreen. I loved the ending.

R200 "NO one even mentioned Lori. Sad."

Yes it was sad, but thematically quite fitting. The point of her character was she had no real connection to the others. Yes, on friendly terms, but not in any way that any of them would have been devastated by her death. Like mostly everyone on this thread,I kept waiting for someone to mention her... or even a quick aside of Candy finding out about her death.

However, who caught the glimpse of her in the montage at the end? Standing on the deuce, beside CeCe, looking lost and horrified. She had no lines. I thought it was perfect!

I hated the epilogue, even as I was somewhat moved by it. But largely, my problem with it was Franco. His makeup was awful and he just doesn’t have the depth to pull off something like that. He was palatable in the first season less so in season two and flat out awful in the third. What a pity. Imagine having someone of Mark Ruffalo's caliber in those roles.

I wasn't looking for anyone to be "devastated" by her death but it was just bad storytelling not to mention it. Candy made the whole deal based on Lori being in it. A conversation about that at least would have been something.

R239, she DID mention it as has already been pointed out to you several times. It was a “read between the lines” moment for the more discerning viewers, but it was addressed.

Were you looking for Candy to light a white candle for Lori and then stick it in her pussy to make a pearl necklace made of the dripping wax on the redhead in her new movie whilst sobbing? It’s just not that kind of show where we were going to have various characters at some big memorial for a dead porn star/hooker.

R240 I’m touched by your imagery.

The whole Lori thing is to illustrate nobody cared about a person like that in real life except the audience because we're the only one's that saw the pain she went through. Like the Omar character on the Wire.

The one brief look Lori gives in the ending montage says it all.

I didn't think the sentimental ending fit the tone of the series. Maybe if a better actor than Franco played the part it would have worked?

Oh for Christ sake he was just walking down the street acknowledging past friends. It wasn't King Lear and didn't need Olivier. Franco was fine.

"I wasn't looking for anyone to be "devastated" by her death but it was just bad storytelling not to mention it. Candy made the whole deal based on Lori being in it. A conversation about that at least would have been something."

They did talk about it. She said that without Lori, she couldn't direct the movie ergo, she had to act in the porn movie that was offered to her and which she originally turned down.

They could have sung a song about it like The Electric Company used to do. Or have various children repeat my previous paragraph in a repetitive montage with goofy music over it like Zoom.

Or repurpose a Broadway song in an over the top somewhat fawning parody sung by Seth McFarlane and his sister like they do on Family Guy and occasionally American Dad.

OMG! I could be like Glee whenever they had Kristen Chenowith on it! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Smell you r245, the bad old man makeup and bad acting made it look like an SNL sketch

Simon sounds like a douche in this interview.

The ending might be more resonant if you've lived in NYC a long time..

R246 Ummm....No..Her death was never addressed and Candy made the porn deal when Lori was still alive. It had NOTHING to do with her. Lori died and life went on just like always. Get over it.

R248 Doesn't sound like a douche to me. Sounds like a well informed and articulate man not tolerating any bullshit. Franco is not getting in trouble, and neither is Harvey Weinstein. Only Bill Cosby because he's black and took advantage of white women. Nobody cares and all these #metoo women need to shut the fuck up. They are only making it worse for themselves in the long run. Yes, everything these jew bastard producers have been doing for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS since the very beginning of Hollywood and that everyone knew about is really something terrible. But, if you think James Franco is the one to go down for it, then you are very sadly mistaken. Nobody is forcing you into the entertainment industry (and all that it entails) and to simulate sex scenes. Move on. The douche is that cuck of a reporter.

What James Franco did (allegedly) was stupid and sleazy. But he's not a rapist. He didn't assault or force those women into taking his idiotic "Sex Scenes" class and to participate in those film projects. They did so because they wanted to sleep with a handsome rich movie star and have the chance to be in one of his films. That was a big carrot that Franco dangled before him. Again, I'm not saying Franco isn't a sleazebag but he's not a rapist like Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby.

R252 EXACTLY.

I enjoyed this series a lot and really like how gritty it was considering I grew up in shiny, west coast suburb around this time. I found the acting superb—especially C.C. and Harvey.

Was it perfect? No, but still watchable and entertaining. The only real lows for me was Vince’s aged makeup and Candy’s slow and monotonous speech. I kept yelling at the screen for her to spit it out!

*were

Weinstein and Cosby are in a league of their own.

Gary Carr was wonderful as C.C. I was so shocked when I learned he's British.

I’m a sucker for plays and films where the dead return to interact with the living (Carousel, Ghost, Longtime Companion). I loved the finale.

But was he really living or had he just died and was greeted by everyone including his twin? Hmmmmm?

I didn’t like that ending. Much too sentimental for this show.

[quote]I didn’t like that ending. Much too sentimental for this show.

Everyone is dead...yeah so warm and fuzzy.

I'm watching season 1 again and I never appreciated how hot C.C was the first time around. I would have let him peddle my ass.

Hot and a superb actor.

I also found the finale oddly touching (R258 I am also a sucker for the ghosts of the past interacting with the living) yet disconnected from the feel of the series overall.

The ghost of Candy in her ridiculous season 1 outfit and wig leaning up against a NYC souvenir store said it all about how Times Square has completely transformed. Also loved seeing the ghost of season 1 Lori standing there with CC with a haunted, helpless look on her face was the perfect end to her character. Lori was the epitome of a ghost of The Deuce. She never made it out alive.

It hasn’t been mentioned here that Emily Meade also played a prostitute in the first season of Boardwalk Empire. And, as in The Deuce, her character committed suicide by putting a bullet in her head.

Finally catching up with it.

The weird thing is that in all the seasons, the show never feels like New York. The exteriors never look like the neighborhood they are supposed to be. The 42nd Street gets less convincing every season. Ave A looks nothing like Ave A. Half of the apartments and the interiors are the wrong layout and proportions for NYC. (Unless the place is expensive, most NYC apartments have rooms 12 to 15 wide.)

I was shocked to find out the Hi Hat is based on Tin Pan Alley which have a very different feel.

The last scene only highlighted how unreal the earlier 42nd scenes were.